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All Times are Eastern (New York City) Time Zone.
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| | While there is no set topic, discussion should be vaguely Steely Dan tangential. |
Date: Thurs, July 29, 2010, 09:23:14 ET
Posted by: oops, wrong
iPod = iPhone
Date: Thurs, July 29, 2010, 09:22:23 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
re: Herington - saw him use is iPod during a "Jon Herington Band" gig at the old Tower Records back in March...used it like a drone tone before the band kicked in... fun stuff!
ygk
Date: Thurs, July 29, 2010, 07:29:02 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Spotted:
What a GREAT piece of kit is that??!!
Date: Thurs, July 29, 2010, 06:53:21 ET
Posted by: Spotted:, Jon Herington playing ... the iPhone
Or rather amplifying it up on this video using the AmpliTube iRig:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4D2IVZlwz0
Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 13:51:19 ET
Posted by: Nicky, USA
<a href=pills-ed.com>ED Pills</a> is a late times extra-strength recipe nostrum that is enchanted orally to save the treatment of erectile dysfunction.
Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 12:47:06 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Mr Bernard Purdie et al:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxSBlLyYZiU
Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 12:17:27 ET
Posted by: Eddie Hoh,
Bill Arnes - thanks for that (and it's in 9, no less)...sublime. Was just listening to it this week (odd that there's a tamborine in there, huh?).
You're absolutely correct, every technically competent drummer working today owes a debt of gratitude to BC. I have to laugh at posters here justifying Carlock's abilities by saying he's a great pocket drummer. Listen to Cobham as early as the Dreams albums if you want to hear a pocket (not to mention his solo just before "New York"...a taste of what would follow in MO and a lead-in that out-Purdie's Bernard).
The MO, more than any other band, shaped what we listen to today and how we listen to it...in terms of the instrumental component of contemporary music. Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to listen closely to "Inner Mounting Flame" and "Birds of Fire" to understand this point...I'd also include BC's "Spectrum" album which was in the same vein but more accessible.
Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 11:14:04 ET
Posted by: Bill Arnes,
Just when we here on the Blue get excited about Keith C., etal,
there's always this link below to remind us that Billy C. was THE progenitor of fusion and genre-flexing. As good as Steve Gadd is, and he's terrific, Billy was the first guy to play like this - out of his freaking mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAU5o246VSA&feature=related
NO ONE played like this back then - Lenny White, Alphonze Mouzon, etal, came AFTER him.
Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 10:46:45 ET
Posted by: book search, bs
"Still, why does it take such a long time to create an hour or so of music?"
Search out a 1981 Rolling Story article called "Triumph and Disaster in the Customerdome." (Cheerfully ripped off in the Sweet bio) It starts by describing them working on the outro to Babylon Sisters, about 30 seconds of music, for over four hours. And this was after it was in the can. It also gives an account of them nitpicking over Rick Derringer's solo on My Rival that was ultimately scrapped.
Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 09:33:11 ET
Posted by: Fife, Baltimore, eh
I remember at the Philly show last year Security Joan showing me the app that she and her partner had to put together to track Dan songs and where they showed up. I have a very old pay as you go cell phone and really have no use for a new one so I listened politely thought it was a great idea and saw Joan's passion for the whole idea. I have met Security Joan at many shows and she truly is a fine person. Boy sometimes we're so damn cynical!
Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 09:23:47 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Hutch,
I'm not a huge Mayer fan and I don't own any of his music. But I have seen him be quite good at times on televised concerts and also quite ordinary. He really is a very decent guitarist, IMO and I like that he seems to be pushing himself to be even better. I guess what I like about him is he seems to have respect for musicianship and jazz, even though he still engages in the pop-trash that makes him the $$.
As for his impersonation of Dave Matthews, let's hope he doesn't start in with Dave's "ridiculous singing". I've always considered DM to be one seriously overrated dude. But he has some great musicians in the band.
Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 08:42:24 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
But it's "Art" Dean.... it's "Art" !!!
Saw that clip of John Mayer on Today. What a friggin' mook. Almost lost my breakfast watching him make dopey faces.
Dave Mathews wannabe. And I can't see why anybody would want to be that. Looks like he's also trying to channel Lindsay Buckingham finger-picking that Turner guitar.
What a friggin' mook.
Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 08:29:56 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
While I have no particular interest in either reporting or knowing about Dan songs played at various public venues, I can't believe the concern with this simple app.
If there is zero money involved, what could a pyramid scheme possibly deliver? And as far as registration is concerned, don't you people keep a few free email accounts for registering online or other purposes? Give a fake name and use an email address you don't care about (or get a disposable email like 10 Minute Mail). And since it is free, don't give any credit card or bank info.
We are bombarded by legitimate concerns for our privacy and any number of scams. Let's not obfuscate the real issues by making a big todo about the knucklehead stuff.
Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 08:00:19 ET
Posted by: Kevin K,,
Yeah. I don't know who to believe on this Dan Track.
They should just have it as unregistered which would solve these issues.
Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 07:42:28 ET
Posted by: Michael, to 'Larry Carlton guitar solos'
In the various studio outtake demos, you can hear those bits and pieces coming to fruition. I'm well aware of The Dan's penchant for suggesting what to use and what to lose, kind of like copying and pasting disjoined elements until they sit just right while maintaining an improvised sound. Bottom line is that every note sounds like it belongs.
As far as the new solo effort by Donald Fagen goes, while I'm happy that it's coming, I'm not so thrilled by the long interval between releases (though it's nowhere near as long as the wait between any of his former solo efforts, I'll give him that). Still, why does it take such a long time to create an hour or so of music?
On a similar note, I'm very disappointed in Jamiroquai for dragging the fans' expectations through the mud for the past year or so. First they say in early '08 that they've begun recording the new one, then in early '09 they say it should be out by year's end, then it's not coming until spring 2010, then Jay Kay says in an Italian interview that it's September, then later they claim it will be out in October and NOW they say November. That's simply atrocious PR. One thing's for damn certain: the new album had better be worth the ridiculous delays.
Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 07:06:11 ET
Posted by: kaycee,
I have a question too of the what this Dan Track is supposed to be doing. How do we know that persons such as Little Wild are not in cahoots with the Dan Tracker people to get in early so they can be at the top tier of the Pyramid scheme? And the Dan Track will also track locations of the registered people so they could be put into a GPS to record patterns of their movements.
Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 22:12:17 ET
Posted by: Nervous nelly,
I could report something to the Dan track, truck and bus traffic was noisy and it was hard to hear, but i think I heard H-Gang at a Wawa.
If the Dan Track has no Pyramid scheme or identity theft involved, then why do we have to register to ici?
Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 15:56:38 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, Ohio
Lil Wild One/ Sorry to hear you wont be doing the Danfests in the East this year. I have not decided yet either due to work [ the Detroit or Cinci shows are tempting me] I know what you mean about hearing The Dan/ Sunday while eating breakfast buffet at one of our better restaurants the music was blaring Seals and Croft and I told the wife I wish they would turn that down. The next song was New Frontier and the wife said now I suppose you want them to turn it up? If I do decide to go see the Dukes I will post the setlist to the best of my ability' Not exactly up on Boz or Michael these days.
Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 14:04:14 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, love, love, love ya...
Security Joan is too legit to quit! And it always brightens my day to hear steely tunes while shopping....makes it less of a chore.
No east coast Duke-fests for me this year. But, looking forward to hearing all the reports from same.
Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 12:36:55 ET
Posted by: Larry Carlton guitar solo,
Michael -
The backing tracks were well rehearsed, but the solos are done spontaneously. As the boys have described, they may listen to solo takes and make suggestions about what to keep or leave out in subsequent takes and then edit a composite, but the bits are mostly raw soloing, sometimes with direction.
Larry Carlton knows how to solo. He may "compose" solos over several takes, but not "rehearse" them.
Read about Wayne Shorter doing Aja, Gadd doing Aja, Mark Knopfler on Time Out of Mind, Phil Woods on Dr. Wu, Chris Potter on West of Hollywood, and all the Peg guitar solos for a few different ideas on how solos are created for Steely Dan.
Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 12:20:20 ET
Posted by: Sample from , 3 Feet High And Rising (1989)
@Mr
Sounds like De La Soul's "Eye Know"
Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 12:06:29 ET
Posted by: Mr.,
I'm in a coffee shop and they are playing a hip-hop, mash-up, rap, whatevah thing that is backed by snippets of Peg ("I love you better") and whistling from Otis Redding's "Dock of the Bay", if I'm hearing that right.
Any ideas what this is?
Thanks!
Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 08:29:52 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
Doc Mu: long time coming, but I have something to send you. I'm hanging out with Vikram. e me. There's logic in the addy. Drop in.
ygk
Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 07:17:18 ET
Posted by: Michael,
About KC (and most SD material in general): What wasn't mentioned was the myriad of rehearsals of the song in order to get it SD perfect. He didn't just come up with that solo 'on the fly' right then and there. Not that it matters, really, because in the end it's his name that graces the finished product.
Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 07:10:31 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
For some reason it's funny to hear icihere-- and perhaps a little echoey. If ici Dan Track were suspected of pyramidism, couldn't that make for a slippery (or gooey) slope?
As drummer for "the DipSticks" back at the dawn of ecommerce with "The World's Worst Rock Band Video," I was glad to hear some who sounded convincingly knowledgeable prop S. Copeland as I always sort of thought of him as the second coming of John Bonham with a third helping of Keith Moon piled on. Hard to imagine Carlock as ersatz.
Mr. Doc Mu: I was halfway there. Kudos on your simple, yet ponderous, puzzler.
On p. 195, Rainey also claims B&F came into the studio ". . .with full-blown demos. . ." ". . .they sounded like punk rock."
Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 05:04:34 ET
Posted by: Security Joan, Philly
To watching the detectives: No, for heaven's sake, no, it is not a "pyramid scam". No $ or personal info trading involved. I'm an artist & Steely Dan freak who works in conceptual / data-driven projects and this is something I've been working on for some time... several people on this board know me and can vouch that I am non-robotic, non-commercial, with pure intentions. (Also, 'ici' itself is something that likewise exists simply to support arts & culture - nothing pyramid-y about that.)
That said, considering all the crap & spam floating on the internet, I can understand your concern. But don't worry, nobody will be required to sell soap.
Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 00:53:40 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Carlock is awesome on Two Against Nature live!
Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 00:32:18 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
ygk: I concur. Carlock's wheelhouse is when stretching out live. Aja or another jazz track like Cubana Chant. Time Out of Mind is a perfect song live for Keith. R&B shuffles and fill + varying rhythm at the same time are not his forte.
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 22:51:53 ET
Posted by: watchin the detectives,
this ici Dan Track looks like some kind of pyramid scam.
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 20:34:22 ET
Posted by: Security Joan, Philly
it would have helped to give the web site for "DanTrack"! It's www.icihere.com
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 20:31:36 ET
Posted by: Security Joan, Philly
I've mentioned this to any number of people at Danfests, but it's now ready for prime time: I've developed a means for people to report and track when they hear Steely Dan music -- actual music, not muzak versions -- piped into public spaces. My inspiration was Walter Becker's comment in an NPR interview, "It's universally agreed that our music is the best possible rock music to play in a supermarket." This is part conceptual art project, part obsession, and was made possible by the fact that my boyfriend is a software developer who actually agreed to lend me a "DanTrack channel" on his mobile (iPhone / Android) app called "ici" for this purpose.
SO, here's the deal: next time you are at a market, drug store, gas station, liquor store and hear Steely Dan piped in, you can report it at www.icihere.com under the "DanTrack" channel (you need to register to post, but it's free and we DON'T do anything w. your info). You can then see the posts mapped out on your mobile device when you get the app (also free) from iTunes or Android. It's called 'ici'. Hopefully we can collect lots of data from across the country and world, and come up with an amazing map showing song frequency, locations, etc...
BTW, anyone is welcome to post other items -- YouTube video, Danfest meetups, etc. -- on this site. You can contact me directly if you have other ideas how we can use this cool toy for the betterment of Dan fans everywhere...
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 17:23:15 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. Time for Shots!
OK, my bad. I see the error.
It isn't free. It's $10.
Parking is free, so let's call it a wash.
:#)
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 17:21:23 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. It's Happy Hour!
Not sure what you think is wrong with Wicked Librarian's post, Dewey.
Aja Vu, a SD cover band, IS playing "Summertime at the Maritime" this coming August 7th:
http://www.csum.edu/summertime/
Maybe you are referring to something else.
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 16:25:23 ET
Posted by: Dewey Double D,
Miss Wicked must not be a "Research Librarian".
I'd check that again honey.
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 13:05:38 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
...and I didn't get Carlock's Autograph like I have twice in the past decade for Purdie...who seems to be accessible and approachable and leaves his ego at the door - also pretty funny in person...at least for a bunch of these Dan things...
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 11:56:21 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
"But Carlock doesn't have his own Shuffle (yet). "
LOL, so true.
But Carlock can play a decent shuffle and I think is a good generalist in that he plays just about everything at a relatively high level, even if he may not be noted for being the best at any one individual thing (except for having an awesome pocket).
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 11:13:30 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
Dean: I know what you're sayin' re: Purdie/Carlock - clearly there are spaces when either one wouldn't be the ideal fit.
But Carlock doesn't have his own Shuffle (yet).
Least fave: Lawson.
ygk
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 10:09:26 ET
Posted by: Alzassin, No idea
Who is Alzheimer?
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 10:02:40 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
ygk,
I think you are correct re: Carlock. But I have one minor quibble. I don't think Purdie could even dream of playing an acceptable version of Aja. He does what he does very well...but that's what he does.
I may be mistaken, but I think the last drummer the boys liked as a generalist (someone who does everything at a fairly high level) was Porcaro.
Jazzy,
1. Alzheimers patient goes into a bar, gets a drink and says to the bartender, "So, do I come here often?"
2. Doctor says to patient, "I have some bad news. You have Cancer and you have Alzheimers." Patient responds, "Well at least I don't have Cancer!"
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 09:22:25 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
Thanks, Dean & no one!
That was what I thought as well, just couldn't remember where that interview was.
I blame it on that german guy, the very same german guy who hides my shit and distracting me so I forget things. If could only remember his name. Oh, it's Alzheimer i think. Ha.
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 09:02:50 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
This IS Today: Some of the more memorable Carlock moments have happened in the renderings - along with the 13-piece band of modern milestone classics - of "Aja", "Babylon Sisters", and other tunes where Donald & Walter's music and arrangements allow space for Keith to stretch out, which have produced moments of the Highest Musical Order of Expression and Joy.
Until you have experienced one of these moments, you won't really understand what the fuss over Carlock is all about. Look, he's no Steve Gadd, Bernard Purdie, or Colaiutia (sp?), but the last few touring years, Keith has produced consistent outstanding musicianship, whilst performing with the one and only Steely Dan.
Gosh, and I was looking through my paperwork of the past few weeks, and realized I have an Autographed Playbill by the Purdie One himself, from his show with Doug Wamble at the Iridium.
Generous and kind in his own way...
ygk
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 08:44:08 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St Augustine Beach
Jazzassin,
According to this interview in Metel Leg...:
http://www.granatino.com/sdresource/16lc.htm
Q: Just for the record, the Kid Charlemagne solo, was that a first take all the way through?
LC: It was two takes, two parts. I did the first part and we backed it up to the middle section and then punched in from there.
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 08:35:20 ET
Posted by: no one , important
Well, there's an obvious audible edit about a third of the way through the solo - obvious to me, anyway...
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 06:52:04 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Neither Direction Nor Way
Just one question regarding a discussion between some friends at another board out in the internet jungle:
Did or did not Larry Carlton play the solo for Kid C at one take, after "just looking at the chart, then playing what he felt"?
Or did he have to do it several times to get what our boys were after?
Just wondered if anybody knows for sure. A link to some kind of interview or other documentation would be nice as well...
Thnx, Rolf
And CerpinTaxt, I saw you in Rudy's. You were very high.
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 06:51:15 ET
Posted by: AllisaLlarinazero, Россия
Добрый день
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С уважением ваш друг Никанор
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 03:23:39 ET
Posted by: The Wicked Librarian, Vallejo, CA
Dan Fans make the news! Well sort of...
See: http://www.timesheraldonline.com/ci_15584626?IADID=Search-www.timesheraldonline.com-www.timesheraldonline.com
This may call for a Dan Fest! How about it Bay Area?
And it's free!
Lemme know whatcha think,
The Wicked Librarian
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 03:11:42 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo
Hey SS.
There's a new series plectrum set aside for you, to be delivered during the next Oz tour, if and when that may be.
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 02:30:28 ET
Posted by: carlock's space,
Dean -
Totally agree. The band is wicked live. Goosebumps, chills, etc.
But I live about 2000 miles from any place they're likely to play and probably won't see them live again. And so I crave recordings.
Good point about how they didn't like the live band in the 70's and focused on the recordings, and now they rightfully love the live band and aren't as interested in the smell of stuffed leather studio control room couches.
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 00:29:47 ET
Posted by: Indifferent , Across The Pond
Hey there Doc Moo
A little bird told me you knew Tex Watson.
Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 00:26:29 ET
Posted by: Indifferent, Across The Pond
Hoops La Poops would you let those poor stale Easter Peeps off the hook already.
Date: Sun, July 25, 2010, 21:50:07 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
Carlock is a a stud, but he often leans too metronomic 4/4 (ex Pixeleen) on SD recordings when a song really calls for offbeats and rolling across the toms (a la Porcaro, Purdie). SD is a funky white R&B band with jazz chords and rock to rock lite then rock extra lite attitude. To play the grooves right(eous), you have to LAY BACK on them...just a bit late, but not too late.... But then after Aja Fagen would move everything off the metronome. ;(
Carlock's work on Morph was a lot looser as comfort grew, and he actually found nice R&B grooves on What I Do and Brite Nitegown.
Copeland was a real catalyst for the way the Police sounded. He could play 3-4 rhythms at once (and often did) with foot pedal, cymbals, hi hat, snare, toms. Watching him live in the early 80s was transcendent. IMO, he's the best rock drummer of all time. I listen to Demolition Man and Walking on the Moon just to dig Stewart.
The gates snare/Phil Collins Big Drum sound (great on Gabriel's Melt! but not much else) killed drumming, along with WENDEL, for a decade.
Date: Sun, July 25, 2010, 13:42:51 ET
Posted by: Lutz, SF
LAbaby:
I read it in Rolling Stone, came out in june.
Might be outdated. Notice how Fagen says he'll resume work on his cd when Steely Dan gets back from Australia.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/17386/118245
Date: Sun, July 25, 2010, 06:06:16 ET
Posted by: SS, HK
Hey Bullgoose,
Still keep your plectrum, in plastic in my wallet.
Shame for you and the Oz faithful about the non-tour.
I thought November shows would have been better than the September '07 dates if only because of the weather. The first thing I did in Perth was go buy a jacket.
Nice rumour though.
Date: Sun, July 25, 2010, 04:46:25 ET
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Date: Sun, July 25, 2010, 03:07:08 ET
Posted by: LA Baby, LA obviously
Lutz -- Was your post linking to an article mentioning SD in OZ a 'reply' to my post confirming no tour? If so, I'll clarify the news: SD will not be in OZ this fall, and the articles saying otherwise aren't up to date on the latest confirmed information. Obviously several publications have said they will tour there --based as far as I can see on not much more than an idea -- and by now, writers of new copy are pretty much just copying what somebody else's last article said. But -- despite these reports, and no matter what the publications, it's not going to happen.
To the questioner about "band release" - no it doesn't mean anybody's fired :-/ When there's a possibility of a tour the band members and key crew are asked to put that period on 'hold' in case something gets booked confirmed. When it turns out the tour won't happen, the hold is 'released' -- and everyone can make other plans with that time
I would like to be of any help in the info department if I can. I'm pretty low level but even here some good info crosses my desk
LAB
Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 22:19:17 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
carlock's space,
I agree with that to a degree. I also liked the hired guns on guitar, bass, vibes, etc back in the heyday. The big-budget, "throw back the little ones and pan fry the big ones" approach really produced some dramatic stuff.
But I think the boys are more focused on what the band sounds like in concert these days (it would hard to be less focused on that aspect than what they were during most of the 70's). The live band is extraordinarily tight and dynamic. But the trade off might be a little bit of extra pizazz on the recorded versions. Instead of picking one guitarist for this song and one for that (and the same with drums, bass, etc) they now have guys who do a very fine job on all the tunes.
Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 22:05:29 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!
"A piece of island cooling in the sea"
How great of a line is that?
Further, I stumbled upon Rudy's today on the hunt for a job.
Gonna wait to go in when I have a few more piasters.
Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 21:53:06 ET
Posted by: carlock's space,
Dean, I think Carlock is fantastic and totally capable. I just don't think what Don and Walt are asking of their recording mates is as interesting or risky as it used to be. It's a bit formulaic in feel and instrumentation, and also a tad cautious, as excellent as it is.
I guess it comes down to that I prefer the old days of several rhythm sections taking a crack at a tune, and then all the tunes have a different feel with the Steely chords and Donald's voice holding it together. In the past Walter and Donald seemed inspired to try things per tune, rather than per record. In old interviews they even mentioned the Duke Ellington approach, where songs or elements of songs were written around specific players.
But, there's no point wishing for stuff that isn't going to happen...
Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 21:45:39 ET
Posted by: youtube, internet
krantz carlock lefebvre
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBZZKXfRW6o&feature=related
Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 19:34:55 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. It's Happy Hour!
carlock's space,
while I agree with some of what you said (particularly about musicians taking fewer risks these days) I think you took a huge swing and a miss when it came to drummers playing what Don and Walt want to hear. Once The Dan became a studio-based band they had several drummers play almost every track. The one that made the album is the one that made Don and Walt happy. In fact, some think Don mixed different tracks from different drummers on the same cut.
Carlock is the first drummer in years they trust to play everything well. I'll admit he may not be the best at any individual style, but he is accomplished at all of them and pulls off everything the guys need him to. If his drumming on Circus Money doesn't convince you of that, I can't imagine what will.
Just IMO, of course.
Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 18:14:44 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo
Thanks, Shark de Ville. I gotta get my earsight/eyesight checked.
Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 15:18:27 ET
Posted by: youtube, videos
Mayer w/ Carlock on the today show yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-CYxvE9cBw
Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 15:10:03 ET
Posted by: carlock's space,
Stewart Copeland took all the space he wanted in the Police, and that was a big part of the band's success and the tension that destroyed the band. By the time of Synchronicity Sting wanted to dictate how the music was played because he was the composer, losing sight of the fact that the Police's success was was due to the equal and unique voices of the 3 players.
I think Carlock is a great drummer with a very distinctive style - in other words, his voice stands out and can be identified if allowed on display, as in live Steely Dan. However, Carlock's recorded work with Steely Dan and Fagen is way too controlled. In my opinion some of the greatness of the 70's Dan is that the drummers played what they thought fit the music best, where now they play what they think Fagen wants to hear.
Seems musicians take less risks these days because there aren't as many sessions to experiment with. When working with famous people like Sting and Steely Dan, backup musicians toe the line. No more Bernard Purdie ego.
Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 11:57:42 ET
Posted by: Shark DeVille, the pagoda
I'm a Carlock fan, but that's not him on Jack of Speed. it's Michael White!
Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 00:05:41 ET
Posted by: Lutz, SF
http://www.undercover.com.au/News-Story.aspx?id=11151_Steely_Dan_To_Tour_Australia
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 21:33:24 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu
I hear "fossil" is the new "ancient".
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 19:32:27 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo
Bullgoose here.
Thanks, LA Baby, for your prompt, if heartbreaking scotchal of the OZ Tour rumour. At least we sunbaked mates had a few hours of elated anticipation. Nevertheless, we are a patient people: we didn't even get to see SD in the 70s and had to wait that extra decade for the first tour. Time is not on our side, but we watch the skies, watch the skies...
As a dog to its vomit, posters love returning to Keith Carlock. Here's my lick, as it were. Dan music is multilayered; that's what I love about it. And so too with Keith Carlock; the more you listen, the more you discover. I have discovered him to be rambunctious, subtle, adaptable, individual and a joy to watch.(because of his unique posture and the way he 'embraces' the front of the kit)
I'd cite Jack of Speed as a good example of the layers and subtlety. The sixteenth swing hints on the cymbals are a treat, while the thing grooves like J.S. Bach's Swiss watch. His drumming on Tal Wilkenfeld's Transformations CD shows how sweetly he can groove outside of 4/4.
As with SD, you can pick a layer of Carlock's drumming, listen to it for the whole tune and discover something special. That's what passes for fun out here in the bush, while we wait for the next tour.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 19:31:40 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. It's Happy Hour!
bassicinstinct,
I'm with you. In fact, I have very recently criticized a Steely Dan song on this very board. Maybe This IS Today, who clearly is a troll as he refuses to use a consistent user name, missed that.
But let me be VERY clear about this: I am a 50-something year old fossil. No doubt about that.
:#)
As for the band getting their release, I guess we will see. Unless Don and Walt gave each other releases, I imagine there may still be a tour, but simply with some different players. And for the record, I'm not saying what LA Baby says isn't true, and I'm not suggesting the tour might not be canceled. I am saying we've experienced these kind of reports before, many turned out to be false.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 18:23:48 ET
Posted by: Auntie Em,
Darn it! I was looking forward to "TOTO" as the opening act.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 18:20:40 ET
Posted by: Q, A
Does "received their release" mean they were dropped from their record label?
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 18:01:35 ET
Posted by: LA Baby, at the desk
Hello Danfans - Forgive me if this has been posted here somewhere below the drummer discussion. Unfortunately the Steely Dan tour of OZ is not going to happen this fall. The band has received its release so the odds of SD playing anywhere this year are, well, as close to zero as anyone would be willing to predict. Since I can't/won't reveal my source or position in this post, someone else will have to 'officially confirm' this tour will not happen. Perhaps some kind band member who has received his/her "release from hold" will confirm so that those of you counting on this tour can start adjusting now :-(. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Let's hold hope for 2011!
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 16:06:43 ET
Posted by: H, oops..
I guess you're not that Jim Chapin. I just noticed that he passed away last year. He did a drum clinic at our shop about five years ago.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 16:03:32 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
For the record:
I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with constructive criticism.
Just slightly bemused by a comment, presumably intended seriously, that a drummer's job is to keep time!!! LOL
If I have misinterpreted some very subtle humour, you have my unreserved apologies.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 16:03:17 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Jim Chapin - Would you happen to be THIS Jim Chapin?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Chapin
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 15:28:20 ET
Posted by: Mr this IS today,
Chris, good points. I never really said Carlock was bad, but competent, even good. if he can be counted on to do some of those early Police songs well, those punky songs where drums are the very basis of the structure If Sting still even plays them, and he uses Carlock, then Carlock has to be pretty good. You can't hide behind the other instruments on those songs like Roxanne etc.
For a twenty something, you are almost always the Voice of Reason. Quite unlike these 50 or 60 year old fossils like the Dean, Mark in Boston and bassinstinct who get pissed off when anyone is critical of anything about Steely Dan!
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 15:26:05 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu
This IS Today - By Lurker Ray
Today we have DVR's & DVD Recorders
Today we have the computer, internet and John Mayer torrent sites
Today we even have "old" still working VHS recorders
Today we encountered a fool who wasted precious vacation time
Today we have a prime example of why, "thinning the herd" works
Also today, on Today, which I watched this afternoon, we saw Keith Carlock play drums behind a very non exciting performer with very
dull songs and guitar work. After watching Keith this afternoon on Today I was left with the famous quote from the little bird usually found on a crudely constructed treadmill on the Flintstones, who would
look directly into the camera, shrug and remark:
"It's a living".
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 15:22:05 ET
Posted by: Susan, The Lurker, Lurking in AZ
this IS today = brainstrainer/brain hemorrhager / brain embolism / brain embellisher =? pq
they all sound alike.
KeithsDBomb.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 14:46:46 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh
Also, if there are slightly obsessive posts about members of Steely Dan's band on this board, that just might be because this is a board for Steely Dan fans and we all were interested in them enough that at some point in our lives we took the time to find an online Steely Dan community. Simply put, there are obsessives among us who want to hear that info, myself included.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 14:36:33 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh
This Is Today, check out Carlock's work with Wayne Krantz and with Rudder if you want to hear him at his most varied.
I don't think Carlock is the best drummer they've ever played with but I do think he's been the best fit post reunion. Lawson was too stilted, Chambers trades chops for a pocket. Carlock's got a little of both and, in my opinion, does indeed add his own stylistic flare. It's subtle, but it's there -- I think the 08 rendition of Royal Scam is a good example. He swings the 8ths and adds some ghost notes on the snare here and there to make the tune really groove.
As for Carlock being dull with Mayer, well, the guy is a pro first and foremost and is hired to do what the artist that pays him wants. He's obviously doing something right if artists are varied as Wayne Krantz, Steely Dan, Sting, and John Mayer are calling.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 14:19:52 ET
Posted by: Mr. this IS Today,
Outside of Keith Carlock being the current drummer, is this what the hype is about? There have been posts in the past of sightings of Carlock, detailed reports like "Carlock was spotted leaving stall #3 of the rest room at club XYZ", as if they were following Tiger Woods or something. I guess it is unfair to judge based on the John Mayer performance. Mayer is good, but is more like Dave Matthews Lite. Not much opportunity to let the batons fly.
So Carlock is more jacked when he plays Aja for Steely Dan, you say? And that guy was right, Steely Dan is not very percussive like say Adam and the Ants, Van Halen, Devo or Bow Wow Wow. Well the next time I go, I will pay more attention to Keith Carlock and see for myself. My suspicion at this point, though is that he is being pumped up merely because he is the drummer for Steely Dan, which is not enough to merit accolades and bird-dog like surveillance as if he is the next Alex Van Halen or Porcaro or whomever.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 13:57:10 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, feeding the troll
ThisIsToday = ignorance in action
Mark in Boston
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 13:34:03 ET
Posted by: Clubs for Feet, 40°45′2″N 73°59′37″W
"He plays music. He doesn’t make the drums the starring instrument. He makes the drums a special part of the music—on anything he does—and he has a great pocket." - Rick Marotta on Carlock
I guess Jim Chapin equates that with "unremarkable."
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 13:02:47 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
"A drummer is there to keep time. "
Need I say more? LOL
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 12:58:17 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Possible,
I didn't see Carlock with Sting, but what you say rings true. Stewart Copeland had very little room with the Police, IMO. Of course great drummers make the most of what room they have, and Copeland (and I'm sure Carlock) managed to shine despite the limitations, at least to those who can perceive the subtleties of drumming.
What I found particularly This is Today's post is he seems angry about having a morning off and listening to music. What exactly did he expect Sting's drummer to do, on a morning talk show mini-set?
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 12:52:59 ET
Posted by: Jim Chapin,
This IS today - the opinions, on this board, are divided regarding Carlock. My opinion is that he is a very capable, consistent rhythm-based drummer. His forte is the pocket style. He is certainly NOT a distinctive voice with regard to his rhythm playing or soloing. He has good power for his size but as many of the knowledgable posters have noted, his arsenal of chops is not that of a Purdie, Coliutta, Gadd, Marotta, etc.
As you may be able to tell from EMG and MTC, his contributions are quite unremarkable(for those that become enraged by that statement, please point out the passages that you believe to be remarkable...I'd be happy to do so, by contrast, for each of the above-mentioned drummers). SD is not the vehicle for percussion pyrotechnics to be sure; yet each of the aforementioned drummers have been able to impart a distinctive flourish to their performance. Not so with Carlock, IMHO.
Carlock's real strength, as is John Herington's, lies in his ability to synthesize, into the live shows, the recorded performances of the multitude of truly disctinctive players that have performed on SD's many songs. Many of us believe that a capable drummer should certainly be able to do this after 10 years in their concert chair and don't feel compelled to bloviate on a fairly run-of-the-mill NY-based player...there are a great many that are his equal.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 12:33:52 ET
Posted by: Mr, Ess Dee
"Of course, what I hated about seeing Carlock play for Sting was how little room Sting seemed to give Keith."
On the bus? In the dressing room?
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 12:06:04 ET
Posted by: Possible,
Urge = Urfe.
Sorry!
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 12:04:31 ET
Posted by: Possible,
Urge:
It could be that this guy isn't a Steely Dan fan and is simply a drummer or Mayer fan or the like. He simply came across this as one of many possible tangential Carlock forums.
That said, what a jerk!
Of course, what I hated about seeing Carlock play for Sting was how little room Sting seemed to give Keith.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 11:38:09 ET
Posted by: Nicholas Urfe, Phraxos
Mr. this IS today -
Presumably John Mayer didn't play Aja. If he had, your impression of Keith Carlock would have been a bit different.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 10:47:30 ET
Posted by: this IS Today,
i just saw Keith Carlock on the Today show drumming for John Mayer. never paid much attention to him. He seems pretty non-descript, he looks fairly young compared with Don and Walt and other backup players. He is not flashy and doesn't make weird faces like Buddy Rich or Charlie Watts. Or provide vocals like Don Henley or Phil Collins or flip drumsticks like Purdie.
A drummer is there to keep time. Why do people get so fired up about Carlock or any other backup musicians for that matter, like the arguments about Walt Weiskopf awhile back? These guys are not the stars, and in this particular case there was nothing to distinguish him. You'd just as well be fired up about the roadies!
So I F--ing took off from work in the morning to finally see what this Carlock fuss has been all about and all I see is a bland competent drummer. I will tell you it was a fucking waste of vacation hours, and furthermore the people on this board that are wild about him must live such miserable existences that it certainly does not take much to get them excited. I'll know better next time.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 10:16:30 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
bullgoose: nice post, and on that idea, I have to say, that Gaucho is just all about the big B, Betrayal. If you've ever been betrayed by someone you actually care about, or even love, those lyrics resonate with the deepest of sorrows, and can cause some listeners to wail like at a funeral of an unexpected dead child.
"Would you care to explain?", is the rhetorical question to no real answer that words can provide.
ygk
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 04:39:13 ET
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Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 04:20:41 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo
Howdy, SS. Bullgoose here.
Great anticipation here in Bruce/Cobber/Sheila-land with word of a November tour to Muswellbrook and points beyond. I can't remember whether I posted it before, but your comment on Charlie freak reminded me that I can hear a hint of sleighbell towards the end of Jack of Speed. I can't help but wonder whether the boys wanted to hark back to Charlie Freak in some way.
Charlie Freak is certainly unusual in its sincerity. For me, it has that whole Charles Dickens/Victor Hugo vibe, and I must admit that it has make the eyes water from time to time. The chorus of Gaucho can have the same effect. The beauty of the music makes me sob, while the campness of, 'would you care to explain?', 'get rid of him', 'look at you' etc makes me chortle.
On the subject of waterworks and grown men, Big Country by Bela Fleck and the Flecktones
is so wonderful that it often makes the lip tremble. In fact it makes me half wish I was American, and- don't be offended-believe me, that doesn't happen very often. It's on Greatest Hits of the 20th Century and Live at the Quick.
But that's just me.
Meanwhile, we await confirmation of the tour.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 04:20:33 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo
Howdy, SS. Bullgoose here.
Great anticipation here in Bruce/Cobber/Sheila-land with word of a November tour to Muswellbrook and points beyond. I can't remember whether I posted it before, but your comment on Charlie freak reminded me that I can hear a hint of sleighbell towards the end of Jack of Speed. I can't help but wonder whether the boys wanted to hark back to Charlie Freak in some way.
Charlie Freak is certainly unusual in its sincerity. For me, it has that whole Charles Dickens/Victor Hugo vibe, and I must admit that it has make the eyes water from time to time. The chorus of Gaucho can have the same effect. The beauty of the music makes me sob, while the campness of, 'would you care to explain?', 'get rid of him', 'look at you' etc makes me chortle.
On the subject of waterworks and grown men, Big Country by Bela Fleck and the Flecktones
is so wonderful that it often makes the lip tremble. In fact it makes me half wish I was American, and- don't be offended-believe me, that doesn't happen very often. It's on Greatest Hits of the 20th Century and Live at the Quick.
But that's just me.
Meanwhile, we await confirmation of the tour.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 00:57:04 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Skin Deep is a great Ellington tune, Hoops. It would be perfect for the SD Orchestra. But don't they usually open with a SD song and close with something more obscure? Skin Deep is far more an opener than a closer though, IMO.
I have never heard of Dick Buckley. I will have to do a little research. RIP just the same.
Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 00:26:51 ET
Posted by: SS, HK
X-Factor...it's all good, but I differ with you on some on the Pretzel Logic tracks.
I'm a Through With Buzz fan. That song has a five word verse, a chorus, a bridge..it all sounds musical and it's over before you know it.
I really like the Charlie Freak lyric, and the sleigh bells.
Monkey in Your Soul has a great sounding fuzz bass and sassy horns.
The lyrical themes lean toward a Charlie Parker concept album.
Overall, lots to like.
Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 23:56:54 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago
Here's a link to Ellington and "Skin Deep". Besides reminding me of Dick Buckley, I always have thought it would make a great opener for the Steely Dan Orchestra, before Donald and Walter walk on stage. Lots of room for everyone--especially Keith Carlock--to stretch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkO6eRxE-yU
Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 23:52:54 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago
RIP, Dick Buckley.
Dick was to Chicago Jazz what Mort Fega was to NYC Jazz.
Dick started his radio show with Duke Ellington's "Skin Deep", the opening track off "Ellington Uptown". Dick worked with Norman Granz at Verve and his radio show still ran on Chicago Public Radio at 2 PM Sunday afternoons until he (and Marian McPartland's Piano Jazz) were dropped in the past couple of years.
(I haven't donated to CPR since--Piano Jazz has resurfaced on a local classical station. Piano Jazz was dropped in part to make way.)
So here's to Dick. I'm sure he's enjoying "the good ones" right now.
Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 23:26:20 ET
Posted by: Dana , formerly of Berkeley
From the next Dandom Digest:
Added to NRP.com today, 7.22.2010
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128691918&sc=nl&cc=sod-20100722
------
"Not surprising for someone who's a member of both <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15231985> Steely Dan's touring band and the most recent incarnation of <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15360402>Yoko Ono's Plastic Ono Band, Michael Leonhart avoids anything close to the beaten path. The singer, songwriter and multi-instrumentalist mixes and matches funk, world music, jazz and artful pop with merry abandon."
------
The 4+ min clip of "The Story of Echo Lake" is delicious!
Dana,
formerly of Berkeley CA
Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 18:08:08 ET
Posted by: CJB, YVR
Awesome Greek seats indeed, Mr. Ray. Thanks!
Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 15:48:40 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu
Dukes Of September Greek Theatre Los Angeles
Internet Presale NOW!
Passwords: STEELY or REVUE
Never saw "two" passwords before.
Though I got awesome seats when I used
the "REVUE" code.
Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 13:10:13 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, correction
Sorry, I meant 7/23 for the Carlock appearance on The Today Show.
MIB
Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 12:29:34 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Hey Steely Campers - Jeez, I hope "Path-etic" doesn't hear about this!
Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 11:56:35 ET
Posted by: Hey Steely Campers..., ....
Bring your tents! Walt Weiskopf jazz camp show July 30.
Link to article (a little about WW and about other shows):
http://www.gazette.net/stories/07212010/entemon103632_32533.php
Details:
July 30 Double Dose of Jazz at Saint Mark Presbyterian Church
10701 Old Georgetown Road, Rockville, MD 20852
Jazz lovers, attend the All Star Concert or the Student concert or both with one ticket!
Features sax phenomenon Walt Weiskopf, bassist and composer Tom Baldwin, lauded drummer Tony Martucci, internationally respected trumpeter Alex Norris, venerated guitarist Steve Rochinski,
and pianist Wade Beach. Hear “Tenor Madness” by Sonny Rollins, (The tenor parts originally recorded by Rollins and
Coltrane will be played by Weiskopf and Antoniuk.) Enjoy pieces by John Coltrane and Charlie Parker.
7:00 PM Student Concert
8:15 PM All Stars Concert
Tickets: $15 advance, $20 at the door (if available), $5 for children 12 and under
Advance tickets at www.instantseats.com
Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 10:58:34 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, .
On Friday morning, 7/22, John Mayer will be performing with Keith Carlock on the Today Show as part of the Summer Music Series. The artists usually take the stage at 8:30am.
Mark in Boston
Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 09:06:02 ET
Posted by: soboba revisted, no where near you
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/11962
Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 09:05:54 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
The Donald also has said he like Countdown best...so who knows?
Without the DBX fiasco, Katy might be easily recognized as their finest album. I still do.
Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 06:50:22 ET
Posted by: Deming, l
It's not just a question of music's quality, but its qualities. Skillful music does not equal great music.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 23:30:56 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
I think performing Katy Lied live would allow Don and Walt to, in a way, make up for the recording imperfections of that album. I can't imagine what songs Don thinks are weak from that album.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 23:27:58 ET
Posted by: TQM,
So what it comes down to are the requirements. And people value different things, what is important. But that is not a problem with defining what the measure of Quality is. If cuteness of the band members is a requirement, there are certain human characteristics that have been found that have mass appeal, like symmetry, full lips, square jaws, big jugs, high cheekbones etc. Once what is important, or valued is established as a requirement, metrics can be devised to measure the degree of conformance to that requirement, even numerically, if not, qualitatively.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 22:48:51 ET
Posted by: Casual Fan, Still on the couch
TQM, metrics, etc.
I've heard criteria in the past as:
1) Sales
2) Danceability
3) Can you make out the lyrics
4) Good horns
and on and on
Back in the 2003-2006 region, I took two relative newbies to see Steely Dan shows. Both very pretty women, in their mid 30's -- one was from Peru, the other good ole' USA.
Interestingly, both of them midway through their respective shows turned to me and said in pretty much the exact same words, "I love that little man" referring to DF.
Now I was focused on who was lead, Herrington or Becker, but to them, in the moment, that was quality. They left SD shows remembering how the band looked and cool DF was for an old guy.
Who am I to argue with them or get them to focus on what I focused on?
World would be boring if we saw/heard/experienced things the same way, graded "quality" identically.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 21:58:42 ET
Posted by: Total Quality Management,
If you study TQM quality is defined as the degree of conformance to requirements. It can then be broken down into metrics. There is no doubt some subjectivity, but for a record some of the quality metrics might be the degree of sound recording fidelity. Katy Lied and AIA would rank low, compared to EMG or some others. Other metrics could be to grade how well the session musicians conformed to the sheet music, if the songs are too long (depending on what the goal is) like half of those on Morph the Cat or West of Hollywood comes to mind. If you are going for a pop hit, the requirement used to be 3 min. Also, there could be shitty, cheap or out of tune instruments, as well as vocalists that can't hit required notes. If you break these down to enough aspects, and rate them against the standard that Don and Walt set or what the sheet music requires, use rating scales for each aspect, you will get a fair picture of the level of quality. Even though some of these things are subjective, there are relative levels of competence or standards for sound equipment and techniques for which objective judgements can be made. As far as whether the public likes it, that is much more subjective, but sales are an indicator. But a philharmonic orchestral recording can be of impeccable execution to the sheet music, extremely competent musicianship, played on the finest, finely tuned instruments, captured by the finest sound equipment and expertly engineered and it won't sell for shit, even though it IS a Quality recording.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 21:12:22 ET
Posted by: Casual Fan, Couch
I once tried to define quality and realized that, as it is by definition completely subjective, it is not definable.
Other than that, of course.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 20:42:05 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
One more quick point, jenn. "Catchy hooks" and having the potential to be a single are really very far from anything I use to determine music's quality. But that's me.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 20:40:23 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
jenn posted: "Don said that he thought that EMG was stronger than Two against nature, and was puzzled why it didn't sell higher. we, the people saw it diferntly and bought more of Two Against Nature. What we thing is more important than what Don think!!!!!! "
I am shocked to find someone on a Steely Dan board who would equate popularity and/or record sales with quality. (In fact, I tend to believe the precise opposite happens more often.) Countdown didn't sell as well as Can't Buy a Thrill--do you think it is an inferior album? Pretzel logic, indeed. Of course you may conclude that Dan fans liked 2vN better than EMG, based on the sales, but I might even question that conclusion. 2vN was SD's first studio album in 20 years, and was also the beneficiary of a pretty good marketing campaign, especially compared to the lame effort the label gave EMG.
Of course, if you look at my original statement, what I said was "
Despite what many of us may think is filler, throw-away, good, bad, etc, what matters is what Walt and Don think, when it comes down to the songs they select" Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but by "select" I was talking about what Don and Walt choose to play live. For the most part, they play what they like, and what they think holds up well in a live setting. And if you don't buy that, maybe you will buy this: What matters is what Walt and Don think, or perhaps at times, what they think we think, when it comes to what they decide to play in concert.
As for Blues Beach, I don't hate it nor do I think it sucks. I simply don't find it that appealing of a song, and really can't figure out how it became the single. While I'm not much for describing why something doesn't appeal to me (usually) I can say the tinny sounding keyboard in this song is a bit off-putting. On some days I really like it, and there are some parts of the song I always like. But, overall I think it is one of the band's weakest. As for Cousin Dupree, I also don't think it sucks, but I will agree it was overplayed when 2vN first came out.
And Ray, I think they wrote Dallas well before that incident, based on the following: They were coming off two top 10 singles, Dallas was one of the Dan's first releases and it was not a top 10 anything.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 20:12:18 ET
Posted by: poor recordings,
Katy Lied with DBX is not overall their poorest recording,
Alive in America IS.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 19:28:59 ET
Posted by: Mr LaPage, Den
Anyone catch the irony of one of the ads on that Billboard page?
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 19:22:32 ET
Posted by: jenn j.,
Don said that he thought that EMG was stronger than Two against nature, and was puzzled why it didn't sell higher. we, the people saw it diferntly and bought more of Two Against Nature. What we thing is more important than what Don think!!!!!!
Dean, sob why do you think Blues beach is that bad. It has the most catching hooks and it probaly could be a single. it wuz way beter than Cousin Dupree which sucked!!!!!
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 18:55:50 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. Shots for Everyone!
"But when he says consistent, what does he mean? ...Maybe he means consistent quality, that it came out the way they wanted?"
I think it's fairly obvious that is exactly what he means, actually. He said:
"The reason we chose the three is because they were the most consistent all the way through. We never have any filler, but on the other albums there are certain songs we thought could have been better. Pretzel Logic is definitely one of the more consistent ones"
Obviously Don thinks PL had no (or fewer) "songs we thought could have been better". Clearly he thinks the quality of the songs are better on Pretzel Logic than on the earlier albums.
Despite what many of us may think is filler, throw-away, good, bad, etc, what matters is what Walt and Don think, when it comes down to the songs they select. IMO, other than "Blues Beach" the only slightly weak songs are on Can't Buy a Thrill, but Don didn't ask for my opinion (nor should he).
BTW, I read somewhere where Don said he also thought 2vN and EMG were of consistently high quality throughout, but he didn't think many people would pay/show-up to hear them played live. I sure would.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 18:41:38 ET
Posted by: pretzel twist,
It is evidently true that DF is proud of Pretzel Logic, he even reused pieces of it on TvN, 25 years later! But when he says consistent, what does he mean? The tune selection is all over the place, almost as bad as Can't Buy a Thrill. You got country and western, blues, motown, rag time, pop, jazz, latin, even some metal. Countdown to Ecstasy would be one of the most consistent, with its extended jams. Maybe he means consistent quality, that it came out the way they wanted?
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 18:33:49 ET
Posted by: Dave, NJ
With those Billboard articles, the toolbar at the top lets you increase the font size. Setting it to max is just about right for reading.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 17:02:53 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour!
Great Any Major dude covers. The worst among them were the Wilco efforts, IMO, particularly the live version. All in all, nicely done.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 16:53:51 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu
Thanks for the 1974 Billboard article.
Very interesting "Dallas" story.
I wonder if that was the impetous
for the notorious song?
Hmmm.....
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 16:47:32 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour!
Dunno where I read it, but I recall Donald saying that "Night by Night" was their effort to make a commercial single, from Pretzel Logic.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 16:28:00 ET
Posted by: Ben, Indy
I just saw this at glidemagazine.com.
http://www.glidemagazine.com/hiddentrack/cover-wars-any-major-dude-will-tell-you/
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 15:23:44 ET
Posted by: book search, bs
On Pretzel, they recalled three known early years demos and reworked another into the title track. It includes a 90 second song, their only cover, and has a 33 minute duration. Regardless of what you think of the final product, it's clear they were either pressed for time or material or both. This early 1974 Billboard story reveals the pressure they were under for another hit.
http://tinyurl.com/2wovajs
My first SD album was Greatest Hits, and always thought the fish tank intro to Rikki was the end of East St. Louis Toodle-oo.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 12:02:24 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St Augustine Beach
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I would LOVE to hear Through With Buzz in concert. What will they do about the strings?
Pretzel Logic is fantastic, but I'd really love to hear Countdown done live.
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 11:41:40 ET
Posted by: The X Factor, Minneapolis
That's interesting to hear Donald say that, because I think Pretzel Logic is one of the least consistently good albums that the band put out. I think there are quite a few more clunkers on that album than on most of the other albums combined! (I would only consider Rikki, Any Major Dude, Night By Night and Pretzel Logic "good" or "great" Steely Dan songs on that album, and Parker's Band is a perfectly okay second tier song, but other than that the rest of the album leaves much to be desired in my opinion).
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 10:44:48 ET
Posted by: MallinaGertova, Россия
Здравствуйте дорогие господа
Кто мечтает создать свой бизнес в Ростове на Дону
Предоставляя клиенту наибольшую независимость, собственно услуга – <a href=http://www.agentnasutki.ru/search/10>квартира на сутки ростов на дону</a>, разрешает существовать в знакомом для себя порядке, без скоротечного ущемления или привязанности к деятельности разнообразных обслуживающих служб. Согласитесь, это довольно значимо. Конфиденциальность как неотъемлемую особенность даже при желании <a href=http://www.agentnasutki.ru/search/10>снять квартиру посуточно ростов на дону</a>, предпочтительно оценивают заграничные гости. Согласно недавно напечатанным цифрам, как раз зарубежные бизнесмены составляют до 30% заказчиков варианта <a href=http://www.agentnasutki.ru/search/10>краткосрочная аренда квартир в ростове на дону</a>, не более 20% создают туристы и 14% относится к гостям интернациональных симпозиум, проводимых в Ростове на Дону.
С уважением ваш друг Олег
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 00:21:31 ET
Posted by: Lutz, SF
This might not be news, just read it at Rolling Stone:
"Steely Dan are actually launching their own 10-city tour of Australia in November, but the band has no plans to record an album anytime soon. "We throw some ideas around once in a while," says Fagen. "We can't seem to get serious about it for some reason. I'm sure eventually we'll do something." Their tour last year featured complete performances of their classic albums ASA, The Royal Scam and Gaucho, and Fagen says more LPs might be staged in full in the future. "Everything went so well last time with the full album idea that we've been thinking we'd try some other ones," he says. "The reason we chose the three is because they were the most consistent all the way through. We never have any filler, but on the other albums there are certain songs we thought could have been better. Pretzel Logic is definitely one of the more consistent ones"
Date: Tues, July 20, 2010, 22:30:44 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Good article, Ray.
I keep hearing of ticket sales problems, but Ringo's All Star Band recently sold out here w/o any last minute bargains, as far as I know.
As for the $10 Dukes tickets in Charlotte, as far as I can tell it is only for some % of the grass/general admission tickets. Still a good bargain if you can get it, I suppose. I also noticed there are still a few front row seats available at $75 a piece. That's a good deal, IMO and something I would jump on if I lived anywhere near there.
Date: Tues, July 20, 2010, 22:05:03 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu
$10 tickets from Live Nation?
Does not surprise me. Read all
about the problems here:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/16/entertainment/la-et-concert-downturn-20100716
Date: Tues, July 20, 2010, 16:47:23 ET
Posted by: 10 dollar tickets from livenation:, one Dukes... show today Tuesday 20
Since I'm not able to make it to any of the Dukes of September shows I didn't dive that deep into this offer, but:
http://www.livenation.com/promo/deikzg?spotlight_ren_od=1&tm_link=tm_homeA_4_f1
It's all about livenation.com offering $10 dollar tickets to a select number of shows today (Tuesday July 20) only. And among those offered
Wed, 08/25/10 08:00 PM
The Dukes Of September Rhythm Revue
Road Runner Mobile Amphitheatre - Charlotte
Might be worth a look.
Date: Tues, July 20, 2010, 08:56:31 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Well, not ALL, but you know what I mean!! LOL
Date: Tues, July 20, 2010, 07:31:51 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
I think we're all "on the same page" now. ;-)
Date: Tues, July 20, 2010, 06:57:30 ET
Posted by: Brain Hemorrhager,
The latest Hemorrhager was:
(Tonight's Hemorrhager casts the spotlight on the New Testament. Queue up cut #2 on TAN, "What a Shame About Me". Listen carefully to the vocals any of its three chorus/refrains, the first being "I've working on a novel, I'm just about to quit. Worried about the future now, but maybe this is it". This choppy, stuttering sequence of syncopation, very similar but for perhaps a key change occurs on an Old Testament tune. Name that tune.
Difficulty level is about 9.3 out of 10)
Keep in mind that this question is a Hemorrhager levels. What I will say are that points will be awarded at this time, BUT the 1.5 Hemorrhager points are still in play. So here comes a HINT.
HINT: While this choppy, stuttering syncopation is rife throughout the VERSES of several Dan songs, it is especially present in the tune in question REFRAIN/CHORUS with the similar underlying backbeats as in "What a Shame". DF's voice is also doubled or harmonized with Mike McDonald.)
HINT: The vocals are either DF doubled, or with Hodder or someone other than Michael McDonald. MM DID harmonize with DF on live performances of the tune in question.
Whew! Just made landfall, in off of the Seaway, burnt to a crisp.
Time for another HINT.
HINT: The syncopated vocal of DF is DOUBLED, sung in a higher pitch, than on "What a Shame about Me", but similar, and its on the REFRAIN/CHORUS of an Old Testament title track.)
A general rule of thumb to keep in mind on these Strainers/Hemorrhagers deals with the difficulty level, which is logarithmic, like the Richter Scale used to assess seismic activity. So if the difficulty level moves, one point, from seven to eight, the difficulty might double or triple. When this Hemorrhager was formulated, what was envisioned was that the choppy syncopation, or "scansion pattern" as brought up by the poster "Strainer Research" occurred mostly in refrains/choruses. So that was what we were initially looking for. But something pretty unexpected, and eye-opening happened from which we can learn, that what is occurring, what we NOW know, is a "scansion pattern". Who da thunk that?
As you go thru the SD catalog, there are what one might call "Chains of Derivation", where similar songs evolve and follow others in succession. Sometimes it is as simple as the mu chord usages, other times the use of this pattern. The poster "Runaway Jane" made a huge catch by suggesting "Reeling in the Years" as having this pattern, but it occurs in the VERSES. So as we move along the Chain of Derivation, this syncopation CAN and DOES show up in VERSES as well as CHORUSES. It's usage also seems initiate with CBAT, but we need to check the pr-CBAT work to see if there roots that can be traced back to that time.
The poster "Analyst" also made a key observation that counting the syllables and matching them up can be useful by matching the "What a Shame" chorus pattern to verses in "Bad Sneakers", which also uses the scansion. Sometimes the Chain of Derivation takes "sidesteps" of "leapfrogs" over certain albums. Another example of the use of the scansion is on "Sign in Stranger".
If you listen carefully to the pattern and syllables in the refrain/chorus of "What a Shame", and you cannot always use syllables, sometimes the vocalist "drags out" a word, or puts in a moan, grunt or other utterance to line up with the backbeat or instruments. Or they cram in MORE syllables and/or bridge together certain lines. "I've been working on a novel, I'm just about to quit. Worried about the future now, but maybe this is it", the SCANSION lines up pretty well, SONICALLY with "Well I'm trying to be a star, and make them laugh, sound just like a record on a phonograph", except for the higher key or pitch of the latter. Upon hearing "What a Shame" back in 2000, I thought, I have heard this before. The poster "end of game" was first with the answer we were looking for, "Pretzel Logic" after an unprecedented THREE hints and picks up 1.5 points for solving a Hemorrhager.
And "Runaway Jane" and "analyst" also pick up one point each for demonstrating the use of the scansion in verse and syllabic alignments. And special thanks and one point goes to the poster "Strainer Research" for alerting us to this terminology of "scansion pattern" which describes this lyrical phenomenon.
Date: Mon, July 19, 2010, 23:04:05 ET
Posted by: Michael,
bassicinstinct, now I see what you're saying. Sorry for the confusion. Yes, I agree 100% about people who refuse to learn anything because it might 'stifle their creativity'. There are special instances where this is true, e.g. a "great" guitar player who has already developed his style of playing and doesn't want to sacrifice his sound. Nevertheless, that's the exception and not the norm -- most musicians are lacking in one area or another, including myself. I'm not a 'perfect' musician in knowledge nor ability. Nor is anybody else that I know of. But when what works works well, that is what matters most. Donald is anything but an accomplished jazz pianist by the standard definition, yet he incorporates much of it into his own style of playing and the results speak for themself.
Hutch, most professional players seem to carry the same advice: learn directly from the music. No matter how intuitive or approachable a teacher may be, there really is no substitute for the most direct approach of all. Looking at what you said about that metal guitarist, these days, that's what the majority of them seem to do: they get those play along books or download tabs for their favorite group(s), learn a few easy riffs and that's their development. At some point they'll probably learn how to play some basic blues licks or something (often mistaken for diversity...). The problem is, nobody wants to take advice from anybody. It's always, "Oh, what do YOU know?"
BASS, maybe that's true and to a large extent. The thing is, most people who learn how to read lead sheets are also brought up on theory and vice versa. In my case I learned how to read music and play material before moving into theory. I refrain from saying "theory studies" because I didn't consider it to be an academic thing. Just something to allow me to understand how other people view music.
About Berklee: it's overrrated. Most people who've been there speak of how horrible the campus is, how the teachers just sit around smoking outside for most of the day, and how there really isn't anything they teach which cannot be picked up elsewhere inc. from books, seminars and various music websites. They say that the tuition is ridiculous and the 'diploma' worthless. In fact, one of my cousin's friends came from Berklee. Guess what he's been doing for the past decade or so? Working gigs at bars and clubs alongside those "unknowledgeable" groups. It's hard to be noticed when you sound exactly like a carbon copy of somebody else.
Date: Mon, July 19, 2010, 14:01:09 ET
Posted by: Bass, Clef
Michael - yeah it's true that there is no direct connection between knowing how to read notation and knowing music theory. But all my experience of guitar players is that if they can't do one they can't do the other !
Me and bassicinstinct are both saying we wish we hadn't gone along with the trend many years ago of belittling these 'dry' skills because we have missed opportunities as a consequence.Incidentally - we are both from the UK....no Berklee culture over here !
And no one would argue that a basic rock/blues guitarist can function and make money without a nanosecond of stressful study ! In one of my earlier posts I suggested that this debate becomes more complex when it comes to jazz.
Date: Mon, July 19, 2010, 11:49:06 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Hutch:
The last sentence of your post pretty much nails it I think. LOL
Date: Mon, July 19, 2010, 11:26:04 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
This discussion of players that don't read or understand theory is interesting. I started out playing clarinet in the 5th grade. You had to understand time signatures and meter and you HAD to be able to read. But it's interesting that when I started playing guitar, during the pre-Beatles Folk boom going on at the time, I chose not to approach it by learning to read notation but by learning my chords and positions. Not too long after I got some ability to play smoothly I was recruited into a Rock band in high school. So the band had to learn a bunch of songs and I had to learn my parts listening over and over to records on the phonograph. This was the best training I could get in my opinion. You learn a lot of things pretty quickly. To this day I have a limited knowledge of chord theory but having played Blues and Classic Rock in bands for over forty-five years there was no real pressing need.
It's never too late for me, and anyone else to learn though.
I work at a music store. How many clueless wankers do you think I get to listen to on a daily basis?
But check this out. I know a guitarist who is totally into Metal and he can cop a lot of the Metallica licks of course. But when he plays an original riff or part of an original song he's working out nothing in it makes any rhythmic sense. He will start an acoustic thing with a two note pick-up on the fourth beat of the count-in and then a few measures later he will throw the pick-up notes on top of the ONE BEAT of the next measure, so it comes out sounding like a couple of bars of four beats then a bar of 5/4 thrown in. The thing is that he has no awareness that he's doing this. I mentioned a I,IV,V blues thing to him once and he said, "Now I keep hearing this one four five thing. Exactly what is that?"
And he's been playing for quite a few years.
It's all relative I guess.
Date: Mon, July 19, 2010, 10:11:19 ET
Posted by: Possibility, Bluebook
Fagen will do Shakedown Street.
Date: Mon, July 19, 2010, 09:35:10 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Michael:
No intention of generalizing here!! I'm talking about the one's I've had experience of.
In truth, I actually think we're pretty much in agreement. I was really only making the point that my life would have been alot easier if I had the self deiscipline to get myself some sort of formal musical training if only, as I think I've already said, to enable me to better communicate with other players.
I certainly wouldn't suggest that a guitarist needs formal training to enable him to play convincingly, but I do have a slight problem with the fact that so many of these players seem to think that any musical education would automatically detract from their playing.
It is certainly also true that some of the msot sterile players I have ever come across have had the benefit of formal training, but they seem to have somehow falling into the trap of becoming not much more than a conduit between the score and their instrument.
Not sure where that leaves us. LOL
Date: Mon, July 19, 2010, 09:12:29 ET
Posted by: Les McCann, For Truth
"Competition in music is bullshit."
Date: Mon, July 19, 2010, 08:59:19 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Doc Mu - Good one! And it sounds like your daughter has a lot of natural musical ability. A very good ear indeed!
Now speaking of Pretzel Logic... I'm willing to bet it will be performed at the Dukes shows just as it was at the NYR&S shows. It's a great song and it certainly fits in with the R&B flavor of the tour. And of course I will be anxiously awaiting Mike on the stop time lines.
But what other tunes from the Fagen/SD catalog will Donald choose?
My guess is that each artist will probably do only two or three of their own songs so they can fill the show up with other songs they like.
Any thoughts?
Chain Lightning?
What I Do?
The Nightfly?
Date: Mon, July 19, 2010, 07:36:04 ET
Posted by: Michael,
I'm not upset, I'm amused.
You generalized guitarists who didn't learn theory as being lackluster and I wanted to know where you were coming from with that. On the flip side of the coin, it's easy to retaliate that all the guys coming out of music college or theory studies sound run-of-the-mill, dry and unoriginal.
There are many fine guitarists who run the gamut of musical styles, from rock to jazz, bossa nova and beyond, who don't know the first thing about theory. And it isn't just guitarists either. Many songwriters and/or frontmen for groups do everything by ear. Jay Kay (Jamiroquai) doesn't have a background in theory -- he just does everything by ear. Listen to how great their music is vs your average jam band of music college graduates who play local bars to people who just want to drink and socialize. I'm quite sure there's nobody sitting 'round keeping a score card of whenever somebody uses a V of V progression or hits a "wrong" note over a bIIm7#5, because, really, nobody cares.
Date: Mon, July 19, 2010, 03:35:44 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Michael:
You're presumably just a very lucky chap.
My experience with "guitards" seems to be very much the norm here in the UK, certainly not the exception.
Sorry to upset you though!! LOL
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 23:36:45 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu, Give me a C, a bouncy C
This is for Hutch, Dean, and Actually.
Given the degree of difficulty was a Gazillion...but yet BS is accidentally close...THE REVEAL
My question posed:
"The intro to 2 songs within the entire catalog both begin with very similar altered blues vamps...one with a theme 5 notes long, finishing with an ascending climb beginning with the 3rd note.
The other vamp is a 6 note ascending then descending theme.
...both repeated for effect.
Name those tunes."
The first is a classic 40s altered blues vamp on keys (Rhodes I think played by Fagen...with Omartian on piano). this begins this second single from Pretzel Logic Walter's debut on guitar
The answer is the title track: Pretzel Logic
The second involves another classic derived blues vamp, here played by the bass (Wilton Felder I think). This song sounds like one of the least affected by the noise reduction fiasco (Any World and Your Gold Teeth II really suffered)...and provides a hint for what could have been. Cymbals are sharp and clear. Depth of vocals, guitar, and instrument separation are there. Very little of the treble is clipped and muffled.
The answer is Chain Lightning.
My daughter 2 weeks ago heard me playing these back to back and caught the similarity of the vamps without prompt. But then she can ID any note, chord, and key in any song.
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 19:33:17 ET
Posted by: end of game, now
The only title track that fits the criteria is Pretzel Logic
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 19:00:39 ET
Posted by: DeaconBlues16,
I'm not a huge fan of the brain strainers, but I would like to point out that there are only a limited number of songs that Donald Fagen and Michael McDonald harmonized on in live shows in the 1970s that McDonald didn't sing background vocals are.
They include:
- Bodhisattva
- The Boston Rag
- Do It Again
- Brookyln
- King of the World
- Rikki Don't Lose that Number
- Pretzel Logic
- My Old School
- Dirty Work
- Reelin' in the Years
- Show Biz Kids
- This All Too Mobile Home
- Barrytown
- Any Major Dude Will Tell You
Many of these songs can't possibly be the answer anyway. I'd say the most likely answers are Bodhisattva or Show Biz Kids. But I'd have to reread the question to develop a more well-reasoned answer, and I don't really care enough to do it.
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 18:21:23 ET
Posted by: Michael,
Don't know what the hell that's all about. I know some fine guitarists who don't read sheet music nor know music theory who sound great and play in a multitude of styles (and don't revolve around a minor pentatonic scale). There's this not so subtle attempt to relate theory with reading sheet music. I knew how to read sheet music well before I knew anything about theory -- they're not one and the same. I don't know where you people are having these run-ins with all these 'minor pentatonic bozos' but it's amusing. Where do you live, hack-ville?
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 18:19:36 ET
Posted by: Brain Hemorrhager, on the straight and narrow
The latest Hemorrhager was:
(Tonight's Hemorrhager casts the spotlight on the New Testament. Queue up cut #2 on TAN, "What a Shame About Me". Listen carefully to the vocals any of its three chorus/refrains, the first being "I've working on a novel, I'm just about to quit. Worried about the future now, but maybe this is it". This choppy, stuttering sequence of syncopation, very similar but for perhaps a key change occurs on an Old Testament tune. Name that tune.
Difficulty level is about 9.3 out of 10)
Keep in mind that this question is a Hemorrhager levels. What I will say are that points will be awarded at this time, BUT the 1.5 Hemorrhager points are still in play. So here comes a HINT.
HINT: While this choppy, stuttering syncopation is rife throughout the VERSES of several Dan songs, it is especially present in the tune in question REFRAIN/CHORUS with the similar underlying backbeats as in "What a Shame". DF's voice is also doubled or harmonized with Mike McDonald.)
HINT: The vocals are either DF doubled, or with Hodder or someone other than Michael McDonald. MM DID harmonize with DF on live performances of the tune in question.
Whew! Just made landfall, in off of the Seaway, burnt to a crisp.
Time for another HINT.
HINT: The syncopated vocal of DF is DOUBLED, sung in a higher pitch, than on "What a Shame about Me", but similar, and its on the REFRAIN/CHORUS of an Old Testament title track.
Wait till you see how this Hemorrhager comes down. Very unexpected results.
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 13:38:55 ET
Posted by: Bass, Clef
Bassicinstinct :
"I've lost count of the number of guitarists I've heard claim that they don't read music because if stifles their creativity!!"
Hey - I thought it was just me who ran into these bozos !! It is definitely true that a lot of guitar players loudly and nervously deride music theory as they try to warp the minor pentatonic scale to fit every situation...." just feel it, dude..."
Puts me in mind of that old chestnut :
How do you get the guitarist in the band to play much quieter ? Put some sheet music in front of him.
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 11:42:49 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
Thanks Woodman!
Sounds very interesting. Must check out.
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 11:24:13 ET
Posted by: Woodman, Canada
OK very distant SD connection here but I am really enjoying Herbie Hancock's The Imagine Project. His Dan-related collaborators are none other then Larry Klein, Dean Parks, Vinnie Colaiuta,and the great Wayne Shorter.
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 11:18:25 ET
Posted by: Clive, On the border
The latest hemorrhager is
"I'm thinking of a song. When nobody guesses it, I give more hints to narrow it down."
King of the World.
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 11:04:54 ET
Posted by: Brain Hemorrhager,
The latest Hemorrhager was:
(Tonight's Hemorrhager casts the spotlight on the New Testament. Queue up cut #2 on TAN, "What a Shame About Me". Listen carefully to the vocals any of its three chorus/refrains, the first being "I've working on a novel, I'm just about to quit. Worried about the future now, but maybe this is it". This choppy, stuttering sequence of syncopation, very similar but for perhaps a key change occurs on an Old Testament tune. Name that tune.
Difficulty level is about 9.3 out of 10)
Keep in mind that this question is a Hemorrhager levels. What I will say are that points will be awarded at this time, BUT the 1.5 Hemorrhager points are still in play. So here comes a HINT.
HINT: While this choppy, stuttering syncopation is rife throughout the VERSES of several Dan songs, it is especially present in the tune in question REFRAIN/CHORUS with the similar underlying backbeats as in "What a Shame". DF's voice is also doubled or harmonized with Mike McDonald.)
HINT: The vocals are either DF doubled, or with Hodder or someone other than Michael McDonald. MM DID harmonize with DF on live performances of the tune in question.
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 10:28:48 ET
Posted by: My Guess, home
Your Gold Teeth II
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 10:11:37 ET
Posted by: Brain Hemorrhager,
The latest Hemorrhager was:
(Tonight's Hemorrhager casts the spotlight on the New Testament. Queue up cut #2 on TAN, "What a Shame About Me". Listen carefully to the vocals any of its three chorus/refrains, the first being "I've working on a novel, I'm just about to quit. Worried about the future now, but maybe this is it". This choppy, stuttering sequence of syncopation, very similar but for perhaps a key change occurs on an Old Testament tune. Name that tune.
Difficulty level is about 9.3 out of 10)
Keep in mind that this question is a Hemorrhager levels. What I will say are that points will be awarded at this time, BUT the 1.5 Hemorrhager points are still in play. So here comes a HINT.
HINT: While this choppy, stuttering syncopation is rife throughout the VERSES of several Dan songs, it is especially present in the tune in question REFRAIN/CHORUS with the similar underlying backbeats as in "What a Shame". DF's voice is also doubled or harmonized with Mike McDonald.
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 09:57:27 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
"Hutch's Approval: Ink Removal!"
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 09:31:26 ET
Posted by: Pepe,
"Hutch has a smile from ear to ear, he will make your tattoos disappear"
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 09:04:45 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Walking through the menus of my new Android
Hi, there Ladies and Gangsters.
Been a while since I found the time to visit the board, but after scrolling down to where I jumped off last month I think it was a good thing that I didn't drop by until now, as I would undoubtedly have been tempted to engage in several threads with arguments that culd easily have lead to someone feeling me having insulted them. Some strainer related stuff, yes, and other things as well.
Don't ask me to be more specific, as I won't.
Dean, your filthy mind giving itself away in your answer to Steely Daughter on the tattoo-subject was just hilarious, and I can't see why others should be offended. Jeez man, you even took the time to underscore that some of the suggestions were truely tasteless jokes, which really goes without saying. But hey, the girl is 18 and I guess she's gradually becoming familiar with typical male humor. And she even said a polite "thank you" for all suggestions.
The over-protective poster that dared threaten with fysical violence must have had too many of his "meals" through a straw already...
BUT the real reason I came by today is to recommend a movie that I just got on DVD: "Crazy" (2008).
It's about legendary 50's Nashville guitar legend Hank Garland. The guy was playing with with all kind of artists from Elvis, Orbison, Patsy Cline and Jerry Lee Lewis to Charlie Parker and George Shearing.
This movie is loaded with great music, and is very well made in all aspects of it, IMHO.
The Dangential factors here are two:
First, all guitar parts seemingly performed by Hank Garland (Waylon Payne) in the movie is really done by the great SD guitar hero Dean Parks.
Second, the original music freshly written for the movie, is by Larry Klein who co-wrote Walter's "Circus Money" album.
I recommend the movie, and also, when talking about Dean Parks, Glen Campbell's "Bloodline" album on which Parks plays some fantastic parts.
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 05:32:44 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Bass Clef:
Sounds as if our experiences have been pretty much identical - apart from the fact that I have failed to summon the amount of self discipline required to "nail" musical theory. LOL
I really regret not having done it as a kid at the same time as I was learning my insrument but, as you rightly say, it would NOT have been cool. ;-)
I've lost count of the number of guitarists I've heard claim that they don't read music because if stifles their creativity!! LOL
I've known a number of sax players who seem to have the best of both worlds in that they can sight read accurately AND blow their brains out for as long as you like on an improvised basis. Really great players to work with in any band I think.
Date: Sun, July 18, 2010, 05:01:23 ET
Posted by: Gus Winterbottom, Torrance, CA
Jaydubz,
As this is written the Greek Theatre preferred members site, www.pmcla.com, is showing the September 29 date for the Dukes of September, with an ordering deadline of July 25. I would expect regular ticket sales to start a couple of days after that, even though the regular site (www.greektheatrela.com/events/index.asp) does not show a "Dukes" date.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 23:45:15 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!
Analyst gets my vote!
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 16:15:48 ET
Posted by: Analyst, US
I said babe you look delicious (8 syllables)
And you're standing very close (7 syllables)
But like this is Lower Broadway (8 syllables)
And you're talking to a ghost (7 syllables)
-----------------------------------------------------
I can see the ladies talking (8 syllables)
How the times are getting hard (7 syllables)
And that fearsome excavation (8 syllables)
On Magnolia Boulevard (7 syllables)
We have a winner.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 16:01:24 ET
Posted by: More Strainer Research, this is funny
From the current Donald Fagen wikipedia entry.
Quote-
You always have to be careful not to repeat yourself. I can't see myself making a spin-off of what I have just done, a standard pop music trick. But everyone only has one idea and it's a matter of finding different ways to couch it.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 15:47:15 ET
Posted by: Strainer Research, sr
From an archived Steely Dan Wikipedia entry
Some lyrics are notable for their unusual scansion patterns; a prime example of this is their 1972 hit "Reelin' In The Years", which crams an unusually large number of words into each line, giving it a highly syncopated quality, similar to rap:
Your everlasting summer, you can see it fading fast
So you grab a piece of something that you think is gonna last
Well, you wouldn't even know a diamond if you held it in your hand
The things you think are precious I can't understand.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 15:05:26 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
I'm going to be investing in tattoo removal technology. I'm pretty sure it's going to be REALLY big in just a few years.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 14:48:48 ET
Posted by: milkman,
I dunno, tats are no doubt sexy, especially a Tramp Stamp. Taboos are falling away, about a third of people under 30 have tats. They are taking off as an art form and freedom of expression. Tats are not yet mainstream, and definitely shunned by the conservatives and the upper crust.
If a young chick wants to attract tat-like individuals and signal that she is a wild child, she can get way with it probably until about age thirty. But eventually she will come to the realization as most women do, and unless they are career women with education and means, they will seek financial security from a man, and the typical Tatman generally is dregs of society, with his own financial insecurity. If she ever wants to get hitched with a six figga nigga, a conservative MBA corporate type with some cheese, most likely they won't go for tats or the scars left behind from removal. Damaged goods.
Real tats are a permanent decision and at this time in history will attract dudes from the seamier side of the tracks and the young chick could descend into a downward spiral of involvement in those circles from which there might never be an exit if she gets pregnant, involved in drugs or whatever.
The wise or undecided young chick should choose Henna, which leaves her options open, and might actually prevent a path down the road to poverty, children that are wards of the state, drug arrests, terrible credit reports and being a general bane to society.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 14:45:43 ET
Posted by: Guessing, Game
...or Kings or Fire in the Hole or With a Gun or Parker's Band or Bad Sneakers or...
Actually Bad Sneakers might be best fit, so that's what I'll go with.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 14:25:27 ET
Posted by: Runaway Jane, Tampa / NYC
...Reelin'
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 13:44:57 ET
Posted by: Brain Hemorhager,
Tonight's Hemorrhager casts the spotlight on the New Testament. Queue up cut #2 on TAN's "What a Shame About Me". Listen carefully to the vocals any of its three chorus/refrains, the first being "I've working on a novel, I'm just about to quit. Worried about the future now, but maybe this is it". This choppy, stuttering sequence of syncopation, very similar but for perhaps a key change occurs on an Old Testament tune. Name that tune.
Difficulty level is about 9.3 out of 10
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 13:36:52 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St Augustine
Anon,
I'm no fan of tattoos either. But one can get a tat somewhere where the casual observer can't notice it. That shouldn't interfere in any sort of of public situation.
As for more intimate situations, I suppose one who likes/wants/gets a tattoo would have no use for your milk truck pulling into their space, if you get my drift.
Even though I'm not a tattoo guy, I have dated women with small, tasteful tattoos. I had no problem whatsoever with them. If I did, I wouldn't date them, and they likely would have no interest in me.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 13:27:58 ET
Posted by: Anon, See left
I think that even if you like and want to get tattoos, you have to respect that a lot of people don't like them and will judge you for having them. I don't tattoos attractive, and if a woman has them, it does nothing to help me ease my milk truck into her space, if you know what I mean.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 13:01:16 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
One more quick thought about Daughter's tatoo.
I notice Chain Lightning had been mentioned. I thought it should be mentioned that the song Chain Lightning is about young Nazi's. So that might be a consideration.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 11:49:26 ET
Posted by: Michael,
SS, there's a bit of a difference between having a working knowledge of theory and being able to read lead sheets. Is it beneficial? That depends on what kind of a musician you are and in what setting. I don't want to generalize but a great deal of the stuff I hear that's played in jazz (or in a similar style) tends to have a sameness to it. In other words, it has become awfully predictable. Perhaps I'm jaded from having heard way too much of the stuff.
Another aspect of jazz nobody is bringing into the equation is that a great deal of the master recordings were improvised on the spot, recorded in one take. It is beneficial, obviously, to have the lead sheets to the music if you're coming in cold. However, it isn't always necessary. Some people are good enough that they can hear the changes and know what to play instinctively.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 11:37:57 ET
Posted by: Michael,
The Dean, that cooking analogy conjures up another thought: the way people are brought up. A lot of who we are, our traits and tendencies, stems from the experiences we have when growing up, being impressionable and all. You learned from watching your Italian-American relatives cook and, perhaps, there's the race/culture factor somewhere in-between it all. It's undeniable that when people think of an Italian family, they generally think of good cooking (and for good reason). Same as yourself, I grew up around Italian cooking, although I'm definitely no great cook, let alone a chef. Ok, I admit it, I slip a mean Celeste pizza in the microwave every now and then.
basicinstinct, that's an interesting story. Reminds me of how Don & Walt would shift the keys of the tunes they'd play live during their stint with Jay & The Americans, the latter being oblivious to what was occuring.
BASS, I can't sight read either, even though I did have classical training. Reading sheet music isn't so hard, but then, being able to understand sheet music and/or lead sheets hardly requires a working knowledge of theory, even if some of the concepts such as chords & extensions stem from it.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 10:54:09 ET
Posted by: SS, HK
Any musician is better off knowing the theory behind what he is doing. For one thing, he can speak the same language as the other players. Later he can have a healthy disregard for the rules when he feels like breaking them.
I think DF has more than a basic understanding of theory, as I saw suggested somewhere below. Watch him talking on that DVD with Warren Bernhardt. Whether DF came to understand how he wrote what he wrote later...it doesn't matter. He can explain it. He can tell you how he's deviated from what might have been expected, what he's switched, how the the sound and feel changes.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 10:11:18 ET
Posted by: Bass, Clef
bassicinstinct : My interest in this topic comes from being in the same situation as you ! I might have had a lucrative career in music if I had learned to sight read as a kid - I had adequate amounts of the other necessary skills. But in the 60's and early 70's it just wasn't cool to 'study' music, because the music scene in those days was in many ways a backlash against intellectualism and academia - the 'old ways' of doing things ! So baby went out with bathwater and the new religion was 'just feel it, man ...'
At the age of 40 I taught myself music theory from scratch, motivated by a delight in having discovered jazz and jazz composition ( partially set on that road by Don + Walt ) but it was too late - I will never sight read fluently. I am the guy who will take it home friday and maybe be up to speed by monday!
But I am able to compose tunes and write parts for other musicians, which is a pleasure just as great as soloing with the band.
In writing this I have realised that jazz maybe deserves to be a special case in this debate. Standard rock and modal stuff can be played without any theoretical knowledge, but if the changes depart from cultural norms and get a bit tricky ( which the best music always does ) it is very handy to have a comprehensive mental road map based on study and experience - as well as a good feel.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 05:23:37 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
ygk:
While I certainly fall into Bass Clef's "hired help" category, I must admit that the one thing which has prevented me from taking numerous opportunities is the inability to SIGHT read.
I can navigate my way around a lead sheet, but the ability to play a piece as written at "first pass" never ceases to amaze me?!! LOL
On the other hand, I vivdly remember doing a gig with a large soul band in the early nineties in which the sheets for the brass section had been scored by the female alto player.
Sadly, she was a semi tone out all the way through. LOL
What amazed me, though, was the fact that the entire brass section (tenor, alto, trumpet and trombone) were totally oblivious that there was anything wrong and simply claimed that "it must be right - we're playing what's been written"!!!
A real "growing experience", that's for sure.
Date: Sat, July 17, 2010, 02:22:56 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh
Book Search, thanks for posting that. It's amazing to me that any band could have major label success and not be able to play a simple chord on command. That's almost willful ignorance.
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 23:23:58 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Nice discussion on music, music education, music theory, etc.
I'd agree that education alone doesn't make a good musician, much like training doesn't make a good chef, writer or manager. But for those with skills and instinct, it can help him/her hone and develop their craft.
But I'd agree that some can be "over-trained" or can seem over-trained. I might argue this is probably more likely to happen to musicians who had less of a natural feel/ear to begin with.
My brother was an excellent musician from birth it seemed. Despite his natural abilities, he never stopped training, and developing his craft. He didn't go to Berklee, or any college, but studied on his own, and with masters of the craft. (He sought out Lenny Breau and took some informal lessons from him, for example.) While he is now far too sick to play, he can discuss music and would be able to tell studio musicians what and how to play with no problem whatsoever. By contrast, his son is also a gifted natural musician and despite never having taken a lesson he can play any number of styles on the guitar with aplomb. I was a bit shocked by his proficiency the first time he played.
Talking on the drive home from his son's place, my brother lamented that his son would not likely make it as a working musician despite his chops. He doesn't know chords, or have the kind of understanding that would allow him to sit in with a band and a fake book and play music he has never heard, or played before. Ant the truth is the kid has never really played in a band. He might have the ability to make it on his own, of course. But he is missing opportunities by lacking certain knowledge.
It kind of reminds me of cooking, in a way. I'm a good natural cook. I learned from watching/helping and cooking with my grandmother and mother, both good Italian-American cooks. I developed the few skills I have by observing and cooking with others (my sister is a sensational cook), reading cookbooks and watching cooking shows on TV. But I am NOT a chef. I'm a cook. I really believe I could improve with real professional training. Mostly because I would learn more techniques and have a broader range of developed skills to call upon. On the other hand, some of the worst Italian/Italian American food I have ever had came from trained chefs who had no background in, or natural feel for it.
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 21:16:59 ET
Posted by: book search, bs
Actually, it was a C chord. Is that any more forgivable?
http://tinyurl.com/2dtpctk
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 19:44:10 ET
Posted by: tony, new jersey
Hey Woodman
thanks for the review. I loved Traffic back in the day. I saw them at the Fillmore East in 1970. Cat Stevens was the opening act. Then 1 year later, i saw Traffic when Santana's whole band joined them for a surprise late night encore jam which i will never forget. I am sure it will be a great show next week
The Fagen, Boz, Mc Donald review next month should be great. in the 1990's tour, Boz sang a Curtis Mayfield written song, "Gypsy Woman", which had me mesmerised. Drew Zinng was lead guitarist then, and really was great, but John Herrington is with this show, as are several other Steely Dan Orchestra members, so i am sure it will be outstanding. I can"t wait to see the play list of this tour..
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 19:09:55 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
My guess:
So I was first with the CORRECT answer, correct?
And did you get the Peter Gunn sample?
So how many points are to be awarded under your system? :o)
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 18:32:57 ET
Posted by: Michael,
Perhaps in terms of session musicians coming in cold, it is beneficial to have lead sheets. However, most session musicians make an attempt at some point or another to go it alone and make a career out of their own material, e.g. Larry Carlton. Some have more success than others.
Anyway, I'll continue this discussion sometime later. It's nice to see people who can discuss subject matter as pertinent as this w/o coming off sounding like morons.
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 18:00:03 ET
Posted by: Bass, Clef
Re : the music theory vs instinct debate.
People may be getting two separate areas mixed up -the creative artist/visionary and the professional hired help.
As has been pointed out the history of rock music is full of examples of breathtakingly creative artists who didn't even know rudimentary music theory. They didn't need to. But pro session musicians cannot pay their mortgages without chart and notation reading skills, a full knowledge of all musical terms and shorthand and a fairly detailed understanding of the inner structure of music. Then on top of that skill set they need to be instinctive, creative and sensitive !
I believe the changes on West of Hollywood (for instance) could never have been instinctively negotiated by any musician attempting to solo over them without access to the chart. Or maybe I'm just a crap musician !
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 17:10:20 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
M:
That is truly jaw-dropping!!!
Loved the album though, I must admit.
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 16:46:21 ET
Posted by: Android, in a warehouse with his true companion
Don't know if anyone here would have interest in this. Probably not, but here it is anyway. No actual Dan content, just some stuff about Neil Young's "Trans" album as science fiction and also as an album so different it supposedly almost halted his career.
http://www.tor.com/blogs/2010/07/frequency-rotation-neil-young-sample-and-hold
[ One of Trans’ many science-fiction-themed tracks is the frigid, digitized, thoroughly un-hippie-like “Sample and Hold,” a tale of loneliness in some bleak future stocked with mail-order android brides. “We know you’ll be satisfied / When you energize / And see your unit come alive,” drones Young emotionlessly in a completely unrecognizable mutation of his trademark nasal tenor. “We know you’ll be happy.” On his 1993 compilation Lucky Thirteen, Young would release an extended remake of “Sample and Hold”—a full eight minutes of Blade Runner-worthy cyber-rock. And just to drive the SF motif home, the cover of Lucky features a photo of Young decked out like an extra from Tron—and even comes with the subtitle “Excursions into Alien Territory.” ]
I'm not familiar with the album or the song, but reading that reminded me very much of Android Warehouse. (Though if I heard it, I suspect I would not be reminded so much. Don't know, of course.
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 15:26:29 ET
Posted by: M, on the subject of theory
I remember reading about Becker's sessions producing the China Crisis record. He asked the guitarist to play a C note and he didn't know how.
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 15:23:28 ET
Posted by: my guess, out
The answer is here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw3so6ClU9I
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 15:10:07 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
Michael: First and foremost, I wholeheartedly agree that's it's extremely important to be able to hear, and more importantly, listen.
And just because someone knows theory, doesn't mean they render a performance of value. Understood.
"The lack of a good performance from X guitarist on your recording does nothing to validate the need for theory. Just because somebody has a background in music theory does not guarantee a satisfactory performance."
My example was one from real life, unique to me and my experience. Had he had a knowledge of theory, he would discover a wider palette of musical choices in which to make. Had you been there, you would've experienced the struggle he had to understand the progression and winced at how he failed to render anything meaningful over 5 hours. Looking back, I shouldn't have hired him to begin with.
The fact the he is stubbornly against learning at all, and making himself better in any regard, puts him in the Stupid and Loving It Category.
Thinking, hearing and feeling is fine, and I'm glad you recognize that, as I believe they are essential. And we could bore the pants off everyone by naming Non-Theoretical examples of musical greatness who function this way. If you have the knack, the soul and the passion to render great music without it, more power to you.
However, if my guitarist guy had a wider scope of knowledge, there's a better chance that he MIGHT render a better performance, having a fuller palette of approaches and nuances. And, case in point, he wouldn't have been so baffled by the changes, distracting his personal focus for the session.
And he might've gotten called back.
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 14:42:19 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh
Mike, I think you're right on for cases like Steely Dan and the Beatles where they're songwriters and visionaries. For the every day working musician -- guys in small towns all the way up to the type of people who played on Steely Dan records -- extensive knowledge of theory is a must. I don't think that, if Fagen and Becker were huge theory heads, their music would have change a whole lot -- they just didn't need it for their purposes of writing songs.
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 13:57:04 ET
Posted by: Michael, to YGK
The lack of a good performance from X guitarist on your recording does nothing to validate the need for theory. Just because somebody has a background in music theory does not guarantee a satisfactory performance. You may be trying to reason that because X musician does not know what a DM6/9 chord is or understand that something may be borrowing from a relative/distant key that it somehow diminishes from the performance, but that isn't necessarily so.
Since we all think and function differently, we being individuals with unique experiences, it makes no sense to try and make everybody think and observe things from a linear, limited perspective, let alone evaluate everything by such biased standards. There are people who don't know how to read a single note on a stave yet can completely hand us our ass in terms of performance. How does theory explain that? It doesn't. You're trying to apply reason to an irrational thing (a personal performance observed from a fixed viewpoint, i.e. yours).
Then there's the issue of taste. Some people may be wholly competent performers yet lack a certain desired quality for a given piece of music. Look at all the soloists who tried (and failed) at Peg. Steve Khan's solo didn't make the grade, yet he has a deep working knowledge of jazz theory. History has shown that many if not most all of the greatest guitarists had no formal training. They learned by practice, by listening and evaluating things on their own.
Donald Fagen has limited theory training (a working knowledge of the rudimentary stuff) and just look at the quality and depth of his compositions. I have yet to hear the theorist/musicologist who can touch SD's material. Again, look at The Beatles, the most influential force in popular music. No working knowledge of theory; everything was predicated on imagination, hearing and feeling.
You cannot teach somebody how to 'feel' music. No theorist propaganda is going to magically turn a boring musician into an astounding performer, nor does experience alone doesn't guarantee a quality performer (John Mclaughlin = Zzzzz). What's most important is the individual ear, the ability to HEAR music.
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 11:48:06 ET
Posted by: Jaydubz, Laurel Canyon
"It sometimes takes the knowledge of something to know how NOT to use it." - Amen!
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 11:46:16 ET
Posted by: Jaydubz, Laurel Canyon
Hey Guys! Does anyone know when the tickets go on sale for the Los Angeles Fagen/McDonald/Scaggs show? Thanks SO much! :)
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 11:40:30 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
Michael: Anything taken to an extreme, like music Theory, can be debilitatingly tiresome and out of balance.
Jazzholes are people who are so focused on Definitions of things they forget the true spirit of the idiom which has always stretched the limits of sonoric possibilities. You could also call them Purists. They can also be debilititatingly tiresome in their 'religious' beliefs, and their lack of openness.
The converse to Not knowing Theory is this:
I worked with a guitarist who didn't know his instrument well; well enough to get by for his music, but mind numbingly dumb about simple theory as it relates to others. Had this thing called a "magic chord" cause he couldn't explain the extensions. He had a good sound, so I hired him for something. Simple rock tune with two sets of changes. 5 hours and 10 tracks later, we stopped and let him go. 12 hours of editing later, we called someone else. The guy couldn't play a simple 4-bar phrase with cohesion and musicality.
New guy burned it down in 2 takes in 45 mintues. He knew his instrument AND his theory. We kept that. Lesson learned.
But believe me, Steely Dan knows Theory. It sometimes takes the knowledge of something to know how NOT to use it.
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 11:27:38 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Michael:
Couldn't agree with you more.
Having said that, I often wish I had the formal training and, therefore, the language to use in conversations with other musicians.
It would certainly make life alot easier!! LOL
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 10:33:44 ET
Posted by: T. Benaphree,
Has anyone else noticed, w/ hdphs. on preferrably, WB say, "Fantastic" in response to G. Wadenius' solo @ around 4:01 from "Peg" on AIA?
Funny. But he's right, too.:)
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 10:09:11 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
Hey "My guess"
So what was the "correct" answer(s) for that Tom Jones/Art of Noise cut? Remember, you got to follow up on the Strainers that you put out! :o)
Did you notice that Peter Gunn thing they cranked in there? There might be some others in there because that trombone soloing jumps all over the place.
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 09:20:52 ET
Posted by: Woodman, Canada
Hey Tony,
The show was fantastic. Winwood does a small set - would have loved to have heard more - his voice hasn't changed a bit. But he does a lot of stuff from all phases - highlights were; his guitar playing on Can't Find My Way Home, his version of Dear Mr. Fantasy, Low Sparks, and his guitarist (who's name escapes me). As far as Carlos is concerned - well it was a beautiful summer's night - around 80 degrees, a cool wind blowing to keep everyone comfortable, cold beer, a real good ambience, and Carlo. I could not have asked for a better "atmosphere". He gets his "hits" (Oyo, Evil Ways, Black Magic, Smooth) done shotgun style in the middle of the set. The rest is all the stuff the fans want to hear. And make no mistake about it, you will hear jams. He did Sunshine Of Your Love and Love Supreme for covers. Carlos did call Steve up on stage but Steve did not appear (or at least I didn't see him). Still, you are going to see the Revue - that m'friend is a show not worth missing for sure. Have a good time.
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 09:13:28 ET
Posted by: Michael,
Eh, who cares about music theory? I think it's overrated. Then again, most of the best songwriters had little-to-no formal music training. Remember that the "giants" in jazz were not trained to be great jazz players since jazz schools didn't exist way back when. People have this false presumption that the only way to be proficient in music is by education. That's like saying that the only reason Michelangelo was a good artist was because of his schooling. The truth is, his teacher exclaimed (with no shortage of jealousy and contempt) that Michelangelo knew more about art than he did.
Only by playing and composing do you become proficient. Having 'good ears' also helps tremendously -- you must be a good listener before all else. Sitting there stressing over the so-called 'laws of music theory' isn't going to accomplish much. If we 'obeyed' theory, the intro to Josie, for instance, would be technically flawed due to the parallel 5ths, and yet it is, I believe, one of the best, most clever intros ever composed. So much for the laws of voice-leading.
Date: Fri, July 16, 2010, 00:08:01 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!
Thanks for the great info guys! When money gets a little more right, any chance of a NYC Dan-fan meetup? Nothing big, just a few drinks.
Cerpin Taxt is a character from a concept album, De-Loused in the Comatorium, by The Mars Volta. He overdoses, has an out of body experience, comes back to life, and jumps off a bridge over 60 prog-filled minutes.
I really dig the album, dig the band, and dig the name. The lifestyle? Not so much.
I chose it as a handle on a couple other sites and it's kind of stuck.
(xxskaterboy27xx was taken.)
Date: Thurs, July 15, 2010, 22:01:22 ET
Posted by: tony, N.J.
Hey, Woodman. i am going to see Santana/ Winwood next tuesday. i last saw them in 1971 when Traffic was touring for the Low Sparks album. Santana's entire band joined them for a late night 3:30AM to 5AM encore at the Academy of Music in NYC. How was the concert you saw this week? i can't wait to see them 39 years later. going to see Fagen, Boz, and Michael M at the borgata next month. it will be fun to see this combo 18 years after the Rock and Soul Review tour, which i thought was excellent.
Date: Thurs, July 15, 2010, 16:04:23 ET
Posted by: we want MORE Alkali!,
Alkali, yo used to write lots of good shit on here, single sentences.
You disappeared.
Came back recently.
Without yo profound content.
Hope yo still got yo cojones,
Inquiring minds want to know.
Date: Thurs, July 15, 2010, 14:44:13 ET
Posted by: George, in Paris
Woodman -
If you haven't heard Rickie Lee Jones' cover of Low Spark, you should give it a listen. It is outstanding.
If D & W were to do a cover, I would hope that it would be of something that didn't already have some kind of SD vibe, just to see how they would adapt it. Maybe From the Beginning by ELP. Maybe Woodstock. Maybe Roxanne. Maybe side 2 of Abbey Road.
Date: Thurs, July 15, 2010, 12:44:14 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
Woodman: from a rock 'n roll, blues perspective, I'd like to hear them cover The Guess Who's "Attila's Blues" or "Straighten Out" from their 1974 release, Road Food. Lots of rich harmonies to play with and plenty of room for solos...
ygk
Date: Thurs, July 15, 2010, 12:02:26 ET
Posted by: Woodman, In the great hot north
Hello Dandom - long time no post!
Saw Winwood/Santana last night. What does this have to do with our favourite band? Well...........
If W + D ever decided to do a cover project (the Revue and DF's work with Levon makes me believe this isn't totally absurd)I would like to suggest they do Low Spark of High Heeled Boy. It has been awhile since I heard the tune, and last night while watching Steve play it live it made me think (which is a very dangerous thing to do) that the tune could very easily be "Dan-ilized".
Anyhow, now that I am on the rant I would like to open this up for discussion - what tune do you believe the Dan could "Dan-ilize"?
Date: Thurs, July 15, 2010, 09:43:01 ET
Posted by: For all the MMcD fans, an off-the-beaten-path "sighting"
Just Across the River – 2010
Jimmy Webb
Reviewed by Robert Wooldridge
http://www.countrystandardtime.com/d/cdreview.asp?xid=4432
The penultimate paragraph...
The one new song is "Where Words End" with Michael McDonald, which Webb reveals in his liner notes was written for singer Johnny Rivers (who also suggested the title of the song) on the death of Rivers' mother ("Where words end/ They'll be no might have beens/ She'll be waiting for me then/ Just across the river/ Where all the words end").
Date: Thurs, July 15, 2010, 08:23:16 ET
Posted by: Alkali, NYC
don't forget the Brill.
Date: Thurs, July 15, 2010, 07:42:41 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
X Factor:
I agree with every word of your last post except that, with all due respect, I detect no evidence of any "musical training". If I'm wrong on that score, I'm confident that I'll be corrected post haste!! LOL
I,like you, am simply a fan - I just happen to have spent the last four decades playing the stuff, but I have the humility to recognise that this fact does not give me the right to claim any greater insight than anyone else.
And there's the rub........................ LOL
Date: Thurs, July 15, 2010, 05:10:04 ET
Posted by: smallerbas, Seattle
Aloha! <a href="http://www.eur-oceans.eu">least referred 2009</a> [url=http://www.isprs.org]20th special growing frozen period[/url] http://www.heliogenic.net
Date: Wed, July 14, 2010, 22:23:08 ET
Posted by: Erin K., Malden
What does Cerpin Taxt mean?
Why would you leave the great city of Boston for NYC to look for work where it is more expensive with high unemployment.
Maybe you should try a growth city in the mid south or sunbelt where there are more jobs and cheaper to live.
Maybe you already know all this, But ain't nothin' like NYC. But for those who do know that it comes at a steep price!
Date: Wed, July 14, 2010, 21:14:57 ET
Posted by: ovseti, fNdajTnZlFtAAWvqp
axylw8 <a href="http://wyqdgkzdiqbw.com/">wyqdgkzdiqbw</a>, [url=http://sfzlorhdjbrg.com/]sfzlorhdjbrg[/url], [link=http://jjfuxtgbnxhu.com/]jjfuxtgbnxhu[/link], http://nevcyvvjazyk.com/
Date: Wed, July 14, 2010, 15:41:26 ET
Posted by: To Cerp, Places
Sheridan Square (however the AA train was discontinued in '88)
Tompkins Square Park
Nino's
Fordham Road (Bronx)
Date: Wed, July 14, 2010, 15:18:14 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
Cerpin: Any pilgrammage to Rudy's should include playing Black Cow on the juke...and also other Danorites...
Rudy's is on 9th Avenue btw 44-45...
Also fun, is to go there for breakfast...they open at 7AM...
don't forget to ask for a hotdog...
watch out for the old Westies...
ygk
Date: Wed, July 14, 2010, 15:04:35 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!
So I've been in New York for about a week now. I'm here through December on an internship @ ASCAP.
Today marks the second day (in a row) I've found myself on Bleecker Street.
Basically I'm broke; my internship is unpaid. So I've taken to walking around the city. Having never really been to NYC, I've had no problems exploring and not spending, apart from the occasional waft of some delicious restaurant. Just SEEING it all is fun enough in itself.
Anyways, not complaining, merely explaining:
2x: Bleecker Street
1x: Stomped on the avenue by Radio City (I was wearing some relatively beat up...bad sneakers)
?x: Walked past many a Dean and Deluca
Once I get some cash, I need to head over to Rudy's, as well as the Strand...you get the picture.
What I'm really trying to say is my love of Steely Dan has truly added another dimension to my already amazing time in NYC.
As the (paying) job hunt continues, I'll be blasting the NYC-iest of Steely Dan songs out of my Midtown dorm. What's next on the list? I'm thinking of a major Jane Street sunrise...I just need to find a goddess first.
Date: Wed, July 14, 2010, 13:01:54 ET
Posted by: crimsontide, Harrisburg, PA
X-factor hit on something I was thinking, why are points awarded
in BS quiz when you cant win anything???? This is like playing
poker but not for money!!!!!! In conclusion awarding points is pointless!!
Date: Wed, July 14, 2010, 11:18:58 ET
Posted by: The X Factor, Minneapolis
Strainer / hoops:
I guess I haven't been on here long, so I didn't mean to offend. I'm just curious as to why the BS questions are quizzes and have a leaderboard and such. I think the "quiz" aspect implies that there is an actual verifiable answer to the question. As far as I can tell, BS is someone that is pretty well trained in music theory (much moreso than I am, anyways!), and I think that the observations of similarities between songs are often astute and very interesting. It seems to me that a post of "hey, I've been listening to (insert song) and the underlying musical aspects of blank, blank and blank sound a lot like (insert song) to me. What do you think?" would suffice.
Of course, maybe I'm just jealous because I don't have the musical knowledge to answer any of the questions! I'm just a simple fan :)
Oh, and STEELY DAUGHTER:
What about "It will come back to you" from Peg? Your dad will come back to you in your memories whenever you see the tattoo / think about him? Just a thought.
Date: Wed, July 14, 2010, 10:01:44 ET
Posted by: Deriving Miss Daisy, in a fever dream
On derivation in films...
http://www.filmcritic.com/features/2010/07/how-inception-is-not-dreamscape-2-the-quickening/
...good or bad and whether it matters.
Date: Wed, July 14, 2010, 07:54:23 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Hutch:
Form an orderly queue ;-)
Date: Wed, July 14, 2010, 07:42:29 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Bassic - Yeah that Stevie Wonder tune was done very well. Thought you would appreciate the "guitar bass line".
Did you notice the comment at the bottom. Guy asked Luisa to marry him!
Let me tell you something... a beautiful Italian woman who can play guitar and sing Steely Dan tunes? I'd sure marry her!
Date: Wed, July 14, 2010, 07:34:29 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Hutch:
My thanks to you too.
Missed your kind post on the first pass. LOL
Date: Wed, July 14, 2010, 04:07:12 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
umm,no:
Yeah, all I contribute is to have played for 2 UK based Steely Dan tribute bands for the last decade.
Unlike you who hide behind anonymity and, as far as I can see certainly contribute nothing but ill will and bile.
Grow a pair and/or get a life - or close the door on your way out.
Hoops:
Thank you for those kind words.
Date: Wed, July 14, 2010, 04:00:28 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Hutch:
Love it!!
Heard/seen them before, but always 'Dan covers previously.
A gem I think.
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 22:17:11 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
Oh, and:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcflCzZlLcQ
Lots of "deriving" going on in that tune.....
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 22:04:46 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
My guess--
That would be the first single released off of "Can't Buy a Thrill".
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 21:51:43 ET
Posted by: Steely Daughter, IL
Thank you for all of your suggestions, I really appreciate each and every one of your replies. I'm still working on this decision, seeing as it will be a part of my body forever, but I will try to post once I am certain what I will do. Blessings to all of you. :)
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 21:22:22 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Whoops! Hit enter by mistake ... that's what chiba-chiba and Stella-Artois will do now and then.
Very kind words Hoops. Thank you and right back at you a thousand times.
Hey Bassic, check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AN-yZ3OCic
These two Italian musicians trip me out. Very well done, and they have quite a Steely songlist as well.
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 21:17:00 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 21:08:52 ET
Posted by: My Guess, home
After the latest Strainer, I remembered I had a Tom Jones cover of Kiss on my Ipod from one of my mother's CDs that I ripped but never really played. I gave it a listen, and guess who/what it samples?
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 18:02:55 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago
Hey there...I'm bad with the birthday thing, but let's not forget that two danizens are recovering or soon will be recovering from birthday libations...Hat2Flat and The fab Girl Margaret. Happies to you two and anyone else I'm forgetting.
Like I said, I'm bad at such things...I even forget my own birthday.
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 17:59:09 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago
Hey there...
I don't like the of some of this. It's a less than perfect internet world...but a little love and chilling is in order.
I don't at all like seeing someone saying anonymously that Bassicinstinct doesn't contribute--quite to the contrary, even though the Bassic and I sometimes disagree, we're Steely bros. And as I said something like a week ago, while I don't agree with this suggestion of Fagen copying and deriving and repeating himself. but I do appreciate that the Brainstrainer discussions are useful starting points. And Hutch is a complete gentleman who has my respect and admiration.
But if the attitude keeps up, often the trajectory goes that things get even more heated, people leave, things get to be no fun and, if they get really bad, then I put a "track" on posts, often finding out it's the same person or two posting under different names. Let's not go there.
Behave.
Best,
Jim
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 17:33:36 ET
Posted by: ummm, no, here
I gotta say something here. Hutch, you are pretty well respected on this board and are somewhat of a contributor, i am no fan of the strainer, or whatever he is, he seems to perform some sort of function. But the fact that you choose to align yourself with basicinstinct, someone who sits there, contributes nothing and has no redeeming social value is a real head scratcher.
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 16:24:32 ET
Posted by: H,
"knows"
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 16:23:34 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
No my friend... bassicinstinct is intelligent and perceptive.
And he know how to ignore bullshit.
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 14:26:56 ET
Posted by: basic in stink,
bassicinstinct is
Shitty and Illiterate ;.P
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 12:26:25 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
The X Factor::
Pithy and erudite!! LOL ;-)
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 10:49:55 ET
Posted by: The X Factor, Minneapolis
I wonder: would people take my opinions as gospel if I started awarding points for agreeing with me?
For 2 "Mind Melter" points, which Steely Dan song is, sonically at least, considered "the best Steely Dan song" by yours truly? Of course, Donald "the deriver" Fagen derived the musical and lyrical content of this song from his own genius musical mind as well as the vast expanse of his own life experiences and own musical affinities. It is reasonable to assume that this song is derived from nearly all past and future Steely Dan songs due to the fact that the song is amazing and that Donald Fagen sings it, a common theme amongst the vast majority of Steely Dan songs that must imply that they copy off each other, not that Steely Dan and Donald Fagen are simply good at what they do.
Waiting for the answer, and the first person to guess that song correctly will jump to the top of the "Mind Melter" leaderboard!
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 08:51:40 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
bassinstinct: right behind you on the scroll.
Re: 4ths - I absolutely love stacked 4ths, and use them often. They function so easily and provide significant voicing opportunities when comping and melodic possibilities when soloing...and also, they can be altered easily with the adjustment of a note to provide more flavor and spice...
ygk
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 08:19:27 ET
Posted by: My Guess, US
Strainer,
In high school in the mid 80s I switched from watching MTV and listening to Top 40 to classic rock radio. What intrigued me about SD was that a.) The albums had few if any clunkers and b.) they had all but disappeared from the music scene. I started buying up all their stuff on the then new CD format. $17 a pop while making $3.85 an hour at an after school job. I could go on, but it only gets more boring.
Date: Tues, July 13, 2010, 07:15:04 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Time to scroll.
Date: Mon, July 12, 2010, 22:59:21 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
The latest Strainer was:
(Tonight's Strainer deals with the Fagen Trilogy and a tune outside of the realm of the Dan. And it deals with a vocal style known as falsetto and/or high-octave syncopation.
DF has been known to derive or rework some of his earlier work, but he also has been known to "mine" the field of pop music, inspired by pop hooks or styles, such as "Cherchez Le Femme" by Dr. Buzzard leading into "Glamour Profession". Fagen's "Brite Nitegown" employs this high-pitched, jumpy syncopation as does an earlier tune in the Fagen Trilogy. And it is believed that that tune is a nod to a tune by The Purple One.
Name these tunes.
Difficulty level---prolly 4 out of 10.)
The mention of the latest release by Prince led to the posting of this Strainer, and if you are a fan of the Dan, you have to at least appreciate some of the music of the godfather of the Minneapolis Sound and the Purple 1, from the time of his Purple "Reign" in 1984-86 when he dominated the charts. It was in fact 1986 when the tune "Kiss" was release from his "Parade" LP. "Kiss" was probably one of his bigger hits, and his use of falsetto and/or high octave syncopation was not the first time--"I wanna be your Lover" comes to mind.
While there is no definitive proof, it is reasonable to speculate that DF, looking for catchy pop hooks/riffs might have had the pop success of "Kiss" or Prince in general in mind when he penned "Trans Island Skyway" which was Fagen's first use of that type of vocal and "hip hop" funky combination, later to be reprised on "Brite Nitegown" the third LP of the Fagen Trilogy. Chris of New Hampshire was first with the "best" answer of "Trans Island". Chris now has two Strainer points.
But today is a special day in the history of Strainer/Hemorrhager. As a result of the poster "My guess" CORRECTLY, and I do mean CORRECTLY answering the second part of the Strainer, which was the tune "Kiss" he has TIED for the all time lead in points held by "R you with me dr hoo" of Chicago, who was a great champion but graciously "retired" from Strainer/Hemorrhager a few years back.
So, "My guess" I would say....Breathe Deep (not the Gathering Gloom), but the rarefied air! Only one other person has achieved this level of success. One thing that stands out is the SPEED at which you have gotten most of your answers, obviously without going back and spinning some discs. Have you been a Danfan from the beginning, if not when did you get into it? (I got in around the "Nightfly"). Are you as deep into any other bands? Do you work in or trained in some related field to music (I believe you said that you weren't a trained musician) or something in academia? Just curious.
NOTICE: For the next one coming up we will move back into Hemorrhager mode and it will involve both the New and Old Testaments with the tune "What a Shame About Me" that has stirred up some recent "Controversy", which BTW was a relatively low-pitched Prince tune :o)
Date: Mon, July 12, 2010, 21:22:05 ET
Posted by: KD, Lafayette, IN
I think "Circus Money" might be the best album I've heard in my life. I don't care. This disc is so good. The people behind it should be so proud.
What songs. What execution. Goodness, gracious, sakes alive.
Date: Mon, July 12, 2010, 21:05:26 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Bullgoose - Yeah, I see what you mean and I can see how it was staring you in the face but you didn't catch it until now. That's a great realization. Makes us appreciate the tunes even more doesn't it?
So speaking of fourths look at this! (Yeah I know it's wiki but there's nothing there that's not true; and our good friend Howard Wright is mentioned and quoted.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_chord
Date: Mon, July 12, 2010, 17:43:08 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo
Hey Hutch and Chano.
Yep, it's in the tuning.(pitch was the clue word))
Conga players don't usually re tune between numbers when playing live, and high medium, low is usually the order of the day. SD tune them to specific notes for individual songs. To me, it's another manifestation of their fastidiousness.
On Do it Again the congas are tuned to the 4th and flat 3rd and play the same pattern with subtle variations throughout. At 'back, Jack,' the 4th is emphasised.
On Fool it's root and flat third.
SD like to keep patterns going, even through their weirder chord changes: for example, the little guitar parts in Jack of Speed.
The 4th is a dangerous note. SD also love using 4ths.
So much to hear, so few ears.
Thanks for listening.
Date: Mon, July 12, 2010, 12:02:42 ET
Posted by: Speaking of, Congas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QjGgc1UkkU
Date: Mon, July 12, 2010, 11:16:32 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Bullgoose - Well........ that's a good one. Had me listening to both songs pretty intensely. The "pitch" clue helped. Maybe the congas are tuned high. They do sound almost like bongos at times. It could also be said that they're tuned to a specific instrument in the song. Perhaps the bass.
Speaking of percussion here's an instructional drum video that's...well I'll let you be the judge. I believe Keith said he learned a lot from this guy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCzW4fVRViI
Date: Mon, July 12, 2010, 10:57:58 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
Bassinstinct: that's wise, and I join you in your Anti-Hurl campaign...friggin ridiculous...waste of time.
Bob Shepard: the voice of God. I would've liked to hear him announce:
"And now,
playing guitar,
Mr. Walter Becker....Walter....Becker....on guitar...
and on keyboards, and lead vocals...
Mr. Donald Fagen....Donald...Fagen...on keyboards..."
"Blessed Yankees have an ally"
My Guess: that's a major label business model which is being stretched and reworked to some success in the independent music industry...
What's not represented is the royalties and publishing after the final production...
---ygk
Date: Mon, July 12, 2010, 10:57:13 ET
Posted by: Dino Danelli,
Groovin'
Date: Mon, July 12, 2010, 10:16:38 ET
Posted by: Trivia, Time
DF has stated in several interviews (tongue in cheek) his fondness for a 1970 hit featuring the conga. OAFWST was clearly derived from it, and in fact the chorus lyrics are mocking this song's "west coast sunstruck optimism" about a world where people can be free.
Name that tune.
Date: Mon, July 12, 2010, 10:05:13 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Hutch:
I am SO glad you said that!!!
Date: Mon, July 12, 2010, 09:14:49 ET
Posted by: Chano Pozo,
Bullgoose - it's been dull here so I'll bite...what's your take on the Conga parts on DIA and OAFWST?
Date: Mon, July 12, 2010, 07:26:54 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
It should be noted that Sad is referring to Bob Sheppard, the Yankees announcer and NOT Bob Sheppard, the sax player who played with SD on past tours.
Date: Sun, July 11, 2010, 20:27:45 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo
Webbo
The news from Australia remains constant: it is a laid back Arcadia where trouble and strife are alien concepts and danfans outnumber tasmanian devils, but not wombats. Some citizens think too much about conga drums.
Date: Sun, July 11, 2010, 18:17:16 ET
Posted by: Webbo, Silverstone
Any more news about Australia?
Date: Sun, July 11, 2010, 14:27:26 ET
Posted by: Sad, NY
RIP Bob Sheppard. I always thought Keith Carlock would have been a great name for him to introduce.
Date: Sun, July 11, 2010, 09:39:26 ET
Posted by: E Harold,
how so? musicians are cheap according to that chart. the label is taking most of it.
Date: Sun, July 11, 2010, 02:14:52 ET
Posted by: my guess, home
"won't be"
Date: Sun, July 11, 2010, 02:06:55 ET
Posted by: My Guess, home
If there ever is a new CD, it's a safe bet that they be giving six guitarists a try at a solo.
http://www.theroot.com/views/how-much-do-you-musicians-really-make?GT1=38002
Date: Sun, July 11, 2010, 01:41:36 ET
Posted by: My Guess, home
Probably the Prince tune that Trans-island most sounds like is Kiss. But I don't know any of his songs that weren't hits.
Date: Sun, July 11, 2010, 00:54:11 ET
Posted by: The ringer, centre stage
Strainer - Century's End
Date: Sat, July 10, 2010, 23:01:49 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh
BS, I think you're looking for Trans Island Skyway, no?
Date: Sat, July 10, 2010, 22:42:00 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
Tonight's Strainer deals with the Fagen Trilogy and a tune outside of the realm of the Dan. And it deals with a vocal style known as falsetto and/or high-octave syncopation.
DF has been known to derive or rework some of his earlier work, but he also has been known to "mine" the field of pop music, inspired by pop hooks or styles, such as "Cherchez Le Femme" by Dr. Buzzard leading into "Glamour Profession". Fagen's "Brite Nitegown" employs this high-pitched, jumpy syncopation as does an earlier tune in the Fagen Trilogy. And it is believed that that tune is a nod to a tune by The Purple One.
Name these tunes.
Difficulty level---prolly 4 out of 10.
Date: Sat, July 10, 2010, 22:03:33 ET
Posted by: ForwardGirl, the cape of cod
Steely Daughter, what a cool tribute to your dad. My thought is that a phrase from one of the hits would be good, since then you will hear the song here and there thru the years and be reminded of your dad, and of getting the tattoo in his memory.
Maybe a cool looking number 19 with the word Hey curled around it? And his initials hidden within it?
The phrase 'won't do' from My Old School - succinct and enigmatic. I like 'so outrageous' too. Or the phrase 'precious one' from Black Cow, which is surely how your dad thought of you.
That Chain Lightning idea is a good one... Good luck with the tattoo, and as my grandfather would have said, Gawd Luv Ya.
Date: Sat, July 10, 2010, 20:11:45 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!
w00t! My first strainer point.
On a different note, Prince's new CD, 20ten, just came out today in European newspapers. I highly suggest finding it online and giving it a few spins. His best in years...
Date: Sat, July 10, 2010, 18:26:18 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
I'll just scroll on by to avoid the inevitable nausea. :-(
Date: Sat, July 10, 2010, 17:39:38 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
The latest Strainer was:
(Which brings us to TBTLO, which is a very unique sounding Dan song and is the “coda” of the Katy Lied, as was mentioned. Among Dan tunes, it seems to be one of the most “non-derivative” , whereas “ Big Noise NY” and title track “EMG” represent a textbook, HIGHLY derivative pairing. But not so fast.
There IS, in fact, a pre-CBAT tune(“kick ass”, if you will, maybe the finest ever put out by the Dan, some say) with a very similar tempo and soulful backbeat that in the hands of “Derivin’ Don” Fagen executing a few tweaks in lead vocal key and choral harmonies TBTLO could very well have emerged. Pay particular attention to this tune’s rhythm guitar work and the Don's vocal style at the end of each chorus’s refrain.
Difficulty level is about 5.5 out of 10.)
Dan/Don songs are not only a "pastiche" of lyrics, as was mentioned earlier but also sonic parts. This Strainer, as the responses came in took several routes. Especially when additional "ears" are brought Straining onto the case, ADDITIONAL tunes and their associated sonic features other than the pre-conceived "best" answer tune come into focus.
The pre-conceived tune we were looking for for TBTLO was "Come Back Baby" due to it's bouncy, but guitar-based verse structure, and particularly its chorus refrain where a strong similarity exists with that of TBTLO. DF's whiny affect, trailing off when he says "my old man never told me how" lines up with the tonality of "and move upstate, before the season closes--the whiny nasal. plaintive Dylan effect. This type of wind-down type chorus is very distinct and is a major feature in common between the two tunes. As an aside, it is hard to believe "Come Back Baby" never surfaced as a pop single or its style never derived for later use by DF since it is "kick ass", and quite a few non-Danfans liked it as a dance tune at parties over the years when it has been slipped in to the tune list. The poster "Cerpin Taxt" was first with that answer.
HOWEVER, "Roaring of the Lamb" has a MUCH better, PIANO-based matchup with TBTLO, but the chorus is "pasted" in there, almost sounds like it doesn't belong. The poster "My guess" was first with THAT answer.
Now, while performing further analysis of pre-CBAT Dan tunes, ANOTHER tune came up, PIANO-based, and as a BONUS, it has the little, repeating, four-note jumping piano snippet present on TBTLO. When I heard this I screamed out "Oh Wow". And I'll be damned if it wasn't! So, the BONUS tune, which had no takers is "Oh Wow It's You", with the piano verse and snippet that lines up the "best" with TBTLO. You can try this at home, so check it out.
So the way this comes down, "Cerpin Taxt" is on the board with his first Strainer point, for his astute catch of that chorus refrain similarity. "My guess" is also getting one point for finding a PIANO based similarity to TBTLO.
And finally, since, nobody attempted nor got the BONUS of "Oh Wow its You", there WAS an unclaimed Strainer point dangling out there.
Now in nature, there is Conservation of Mass, Momentum, Energy etc. As such, there MUST also be Conservation of "Strainer Points". So I will award myself one point so that we are now in balance and thus can return to equilibrium......
Date: Sat, July 10, 2010, 12:06:02 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
I agree. Transcribing charts is a pain.
The horns arrangements on Kama are arguably the best part of the album.
Date: Sat, July 10, 2010, 04:02:59 ET
Posted by: writing music,
Of course Donald could read and write music notation and chord charts. He played in jazz bands in college.
Rainey probably just means Donald did not know how to write out parts in the efficient way that professional studio musicians were used to seeing them from professional arrangers.
After recording the demos, maybe Fagen and Becker were just too lazy to write out the changes and rhythms when the record company would pay the professionals to do it properly. Fagen and Becker had already written the songs, you know, the hard part - the part we love. The studio guys were paid to build the parts.
Flash forward to Kama, 2VN and EMG. Now that Donald was doing all the arranging and writing the horn parts, the tunes don't have the same spontaneity and looseness as when the studio guys were free to create their own parts. IMHO.
It's difficult to understand why this even matters. Do Donald and Walter pick on Chuck Rainey for not knowing how to write great songs?
Date: Sat, July 10, 2010, 02:54:27 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu ,
Brutus: We are saying the same thing
baritone is similar to the euphonium (Meant this rather than sousa phone), but I believe he did play the baritone horn. My daughter was all-region twice on the instrument. It requires indeed reading both clefs and annotations.. Donald took piano lessons as well.
http://www.donfitchmusic.com/2009/Images/BaritoneHorn4%20Valve.jpg
Some of Rainey's stuff I take with a grain of salt. In one article he claimed D&W lifted his/their style used on Aja as a template for TvN and EMG. None of the studio musicians have been able to replicate the distinctive SD style in their own studio records.
Date: Fri, July 09, 2010, 22:08:11 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
I had vowed to myself to lay off the BHBS because it was so obvious it was de-riving me crazy(er), but since it drove me to quote Josh A. Friedman on Chuck Rainey, maybe I'd better cite. Friedman's 2008 book, "Tell The Truth Until They Bleed," is 15 chapters of mostly essay based on interviews/hanging out/binges Friedman conducted/made his life/survived between 1991 (Doc Pomus) and 2007 (Jerome Leiber). Two chapters are autobiographical. It is a tome I learned of when someone here in the Blue posted a tinyurl to an excerpt of the Rainey chapter that truncated in a most titillating manner. The book is Brill Building heavy and chock full of Atlantic Records lore. Three of the chapters are on bass players. The Leiber chapter consumes about the first 1/3 of the book and dishes more and deeper than 2009's "Hound Dog."(IM[never]HO) To the point, the 1996 Rainey interview/chapter is about as iconoclastic as a body could ask for. After my wife rushed out and procured the book for my devourment, I came back to this forum wondering why this staggering (at least to me, anyway) revelation about the transcription ability or lack thereof of B&F and their composing had not come to light before. As was noted only hours ago, Rainey says for Aja specifically: ". . . Victor Feldman and Paul Griffin [keyboards], Larry Carlton [guitar], Jeff Porcaro [drums]--those are the people who sat own and put the chord changes on paper and made a road map for us to play." (p.195)
Maybe not iconoclastic to you'ns, but while I'm sure that Chuck was not the first to suggest that Donny Hathaway's back should be dusted for fingerprints, after the things he said about Quincy Jones, I'm surprised that we weren't compelled to need to dust Chuck's back.
Date: Fri, July 09, 2010, 21:04:35 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo
Bullgoose here.
I feel so much better: nobody shot off a post to the tune of,' Well of course the conga parts in Do It Again and Only a Fool are special. Anyone can hear that they...'
Maybe I'm not as slow on the uptake as I feared. Or maybe nobody gives a rat's about the conga parts in Dan tunes. Well, rather than waiting thirty years for someone else to catch on, I'll offer a clue. The quote from Wexforde Brandish in my earlier post contains one word, a musical term, that will set you on the right track.
Go back, Jacks and Jackettes, if you will, and listen again.
Date: Fri, July 09, 2010, 19:12:37 ET
Posted by: something's not kosher,
Tell me how if DF is doing all of this deriving, how could he not read or write music? it could be by ear? he had to, you would think at least write the originals down that he derives from? How could it be brought into question?
Besides, there must be SOME documentation to give to the almost 100 session musicians he has used for all of the shows and records for many years. maybe Walt writes it for him? Or does he give the session guys a stack of Steely Dan CDs to listen to, then they come back and play it by ear?
Date: Fri, July 09, 2010, 13:20:53 ET
Posted by: Brutus Charisma,
Doc MU: Don played baritone horn in HS band. He could read in treble and bass clefs. As a bone player I've had to read TC and BC parts in band.
Date: Fri, July 09, 2010, 11:30:52 ET
Posted by: SS, HK
Tom Hayes, if you're lurking I'm waiting for your report on the Aja SHM SACD.
I got mine from Japan but all my gear is in storage at the moment and you have to have an SACD player to hear it so it will be a while.
I've been checking some forums, and it's receiving decent early reviews. Decent means the very fussy types are not tearing it apart. Some have even suggested it might be the best Aja out there on disc (vinyl not included).
Date: Fri, July 09, 2010, 11:07:27 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, in air conditioned comfort
After watching the strange LeBron James spectacle last night, I finally understand what Walter Becker means by “Circus Money”
SteelyDaughter – I know a girl who has a very small chain tattooed around her ankle with a bolt of lightning charm tattoo. A nod to Chain Lightning.
Mark in Boston
Date: Fri, July 09, 2010, 07:30:27 ET
Posted by: ijduljmyr, hqRleP
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Date: Fri, July 09, 2010, 03:53:37 ET
Posted by: ubgcarpm, wnPASgO
Raw7GT <a href="http://hvkgtqtmmtlw.com/">hvkgtqtmmtlw</a>, [url=http://ujhnpbhahvel.com/]ujhnpbhahvel[/url], [link=http://sfyjgtfomggq.com/]sfyjgtfomggq[/link], http://vqcsntmnrsbn.com/
Date: Fri, July 09, 2010, 02:29:52 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
Reuben, Steely Daughter...I concur "Deacon Blue" works on so many levels.
Fagen played the souzaphone in Jr High and HS. He had to therefore read and write music, although this does not mean full charts. Up until Gaucho, it may not have been more than lead sheets...with transcriptions by Victor Feldman, some by Rainey (some bass), and later Carlton. Horn charts were written by a host of musicians through Aja.
Rob Mounsey re: Gaucho sessions and the Birth of the Cruel:
"Q: What was one of the most memorable sessions you have been on?
When I worked on Steely Dan's Gaucho album, I was just getting used to the idea of completely obsessive-compulsive studio guys making themselves crazy in pursuit of perfection. We were trying to do the title track. Most of it was written out by Donald. I was playing piano, Victor Feldman was playing electric piano, Steve Khan was playing guitar, Anthony Jackson was on bass, and Jeff Porcaro played drums. We worked on that one song for about 12 hours starting at noon. The track is complex and long -- six or eight minutes. We had gotten four takes.
To the players, all four sounded perfect; none of us could hear anything wrong with any of them. Donald and Walter were sitting in the booth looking like they had just tasted a rotten egg. They felt it wasn't really working. It was frustrating to us. All of the players loved Steely Dan's music so much. We were really happy to be on the record and were working so hard and being so patient. At midnight, Becker and Fagen said, "We're just not going to get this one. We're going to throw out the song." Then they split.
The band was depressed because we hadn't made them happy. [Producer] Gary Katz stayed and Victor went back to his hotel. The engineer, Khan, Anthony, Porcaro and I stayed from midnight until 4:00 AM. We did seven more takes, and all seven sounded perfect to us. We were exhausted and went home.
Becker and Fagen came back a few days later and listened to all of the takes. They called us to thank us for staying and doing all of the extra work and said, "I think there might be something here that we can use." They sat with Gary and started cutting the two-inch multitrack tape. According to Gary, there were at least a dozen edits between the various takes. Once they had done that and they had this two-inch analog tape with all the cuts, they erased everything but the drums! All of this was to get a drum performance that they really liked. Walter came in and replayed the bass part and I came back in and redid the acoustic and electric piano tracks (Donald later redid the electric piano). Steve Khan came in and redid the guitar tracks, and they were on their way.
Q: That sounds like such a painful way to make a record.
Very painful. After Gaucho and Nightfly, Donald took a long break. This process was the only way he could satisfy himself, but it was so painful to go through that he couldn't stand it. Maybe there's something wrong with the picture when it gets to that point. I don't think it's supposed to hurt that much. "
Walter couldn't read or write music until the 90s(?)
Date: Thurs, July 08, 2010, 11:20:28 ET
Posted by: Zim, NW CT
Beau Bolero update: There is some buzz about the night before Thanksgiving at the Infinity. Check the Infinity Music Hall webpage to stay tuned. It may or may not happen but if it does, Dan fans should be there. It's a beautiful place, seats only 300 so the show is like one big party with friends. And how could you resist a party with friends featuring the music of Steely Dan played some of the most talented musicians! Book it Infinity and we will come!
Date: Thurs, July 08, 2010, 10:27:21 ET
Posted by: Zim, NW CT
I second Big Fan's comments about seeing Beau Bolero if you have the opportunity. Not only are they friends of mine, they are talented musicians who play the music you love, with perfection that Don and Walt would love. Last night was another great show.
And my 15 year old daughter wore my orginal Beau Bolero tee shirt, which the band loved and made her stand up for the entire audience to see. What a great moment for her, and me. Just a great night overall.
See them if you can-they will not disappoint you!
Date: Thurs, July 08, 2010, 09:46:28 ET
Posted by: YourGoldKeith, NYC
On HeadRadio, now, in Endless Loop: "Negative Girl" - it's interesting how the ending morphs into the intro...sweet!
Date: Thurs, July 08, 2010, 08:59:21 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, not at home
When I first moved to Connecticut in 1980 I kept seeing half page ads for a Steely Dan tribute band – Beau Bolero in the weekly “scene” newspaper the Hartford Advocate. Since Steely Dan was my favorite group and I had never and at that time assumed I would never get to see their music performed live by them I was curious what it would be like. I eventually went and saw them at some club in CT. For the life of me I can’t remember where. I remember being mesmerized by the music and vowed to see them again, but I never did. It wouldn’t be until 1993 when Don and Walt met at mid stage and shook hands during the Aja instrumental overture at the Hartford Civic Center that I would hear their music played live again.
That’s why when Beau Bolero recently got back together I was excited to see them. The fact that they were playing at Infinity Hall which is just the greatest venue to hear music in and also close to our house made it even better.
I’ve seen my share of Steely Dan tribute bands since 1993. Two things are always true – the musicians have a true love and passion for the music and the shows and setlists are a lot less regimented than the real thing.
Some of the bands have had musicians sit with them that played on Steely Dan albums or even played on stage with Steely Dan or Donald Fagen. These shows have been memorable and the music special because of the connection.
In general I tend to like the way tribute bands play the music. They don’t have the full horn section or the female backup singers like the current touring bands but the music played by 5 or 6 musicians is more like the way the music was originally recorded on the early albums. There is a simple raw energy that I think is lost in the larger scale production of the current tour shows. I don’t want to say that the tour presentation is bad – it’s just different. They also allow dancing in the aisles which you don’t get to see at the real thing.
Last night’s performance was no exception. They played almost all of the songs pre Gaucho with Hey 19 being the only song from that album along with a rousing extended instrumental ending to FM. The one obvious missing song was Aja, although I believe they played every other song from that album.
I won’t contradict Pete on this subject and I’ll just say if you live in New England and get a chance to see Beau Bolero live and want to get a Steely Dan fix in between tours I highly recommend it. One funny sidenote there was a collection of Steely Dan outtakes that was making the rounds on the internet about 10 years ago. Many people thought that some of the songs were played by Beau Bolero at that time – I’m going to have to dig that out of the vault sometime and listen to it for comparision.
Date: Thurs, July 08, 2010, 05:40:54 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo
Bullgoose here.
Wasn't it Frank Zappa who said, 'Some people not very swift to behold'? Wasn't it Wexforde
Brandish who said, 'You can only pitch so slow, then the ball lands on your toe'. Nevertheless, I've been listening to Do it Again and Only a Fool for well over thirty years, but it was only a week or two back that I discovered something cool about the congas in these songs? It was there, staring me in the ear for all that time.
Have you noticed anything? It's a very Dan sort of thing.
Date: Thurs, July 08, 2010, 03:20:37 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
This BH/BS could derive a body to dis-extraction. Chuck Rainey claimed that neither WB nor DF read or wrote music which would explain why they wouldn't leave the studio once they derived. Can you imagine as they are constantly plotting how to rewrite their canon through mitosis, how cumbersome it would be to pull Paul Griffin out from behind an ear to scratch out bridge abutments? Of course, that would explain the "leap frogging" phenomenon as the three of them could pretend to be Chuck, Richard Tee, and B. Purdy and derive riffs, grooves, figures, yes, and even motifs from the pennedless before the fall when what they hadn't written on the walla rosa wasn't even scripted. Like Ernest Hemingway in the kitchen or Robert Jordan cutting open Robert E. Howard's mattress. And not to deride the competition, but did Leiber and Stoller d'arrive at the same place? Of course, doesn't everybody? They wrote in the baion, so they could derive up sales with ballads. What kind of hit was derived from a Mann & Weil composition? A whole Spector phul. Rodgers & Hart; Brooks & Dunn; Mr.Burt & Mr. Dolly; Penn & Teller; Thieu and Key-- you DaNang it, they derived it --and for careers at a time. Kanye derive something from Britney? Hope so. R. Kelly derive from Kidz Bop? Not without sonic evidence. Rogers Nelson only wrote 19.99 songs and an algorithm. Sorry. You just locked into "The Snoring of the Lame."
Alex: thanks for bringing up "Dog Eat Dog." "The YGWILYTI(or...)" disc is a must have for any fan of Red Giant Music. Besides that kickin' canine, "If it Rains" is especially moving. Wait. One more tomato before the gynecologist's office.
The Dean: despite my attempts to dampen spirits at my demise with crazy skin illustration information super highway trips, I can also see Uncle Bob's (I had one for 15 or 16 years, and my kids have had one for going on 25) point(s). Whenever my daughters/sisters/nieces are schlepping me along within earshot while they are engaging in becoming medium of the fastest growing, most skill-intensive (next to railroad car ultra-tagging) art form in the world, they are constantly baiting those from whom they seek inspiration in order to elicit responses that will end up with people sucking long meals from a straw up my asshole for a time. Fool me, indulgent as I am and having acute hearing, naturally, I go with them every time one or all of them feel the need. As for your innuendo being sick, not having strayed from the Kama Sutra or Brian Sweet, I'd say you're of about average male health.
But the time has come to ask the young woman concerned. Steely Daughter: has this thing played out about like you expected? Can you rate any change to the enamel of your sensibilities? I stick by my original suggestion, but all this pre-CBaT talk would lead me to consider, "...my old man never (etc[?])..." almost without regard to context.
Oh, yeah, The Dean, glad it was megalomaniacal guys like you that thinned the board. Naturally, I was afraid it was someone like me. But, then again, it's my humility that makes me so outstanding(insert emoticon)
Space Jam. That David Stern produces a movie as slick as his league.
Date: Thurs, July 08, 2010, 00:42:42 ET
Posted by: Alex T, J
http://www.granatino.com/sdresource/000229%20jam.htm
(Note: The song -- which appears to borrow part of its melody from "I Can't Function," a tune that dates all the way back to Fagen and Becker's 1968 demo tape -- is about a beautiful actress who bumps into an ex-classmate (the song's male narrator), who turns down her overtures to go to her hotel and "make believe we're back at our old school.")
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 23:46:37 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
Nah BS, you guys still owe me the ID of the 2 related altered blues vamps.
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 23:24:31 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
Doc Mu
That is good information, and the Springtime-to-What a Shame derivation WAS the subject of an old Strainer, "way back in '67". Actually '07.
I was responding to "Alex T" who posits, that a music reviewer stated that there is an "early years" demo song by SD from which the What a Shame melody was "lifted", which I interpret as "pre-CBAT".
Can YOU or anyone else name that tune?
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 23:10:04 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
BS: Shame About Me is closes in melodic and rhythmic nature to the altered blues/R&B stylings of the verses for Springtime and TransIsland Skyway from Kama. All have that minimalist R&B "yodeling"... Shame is saved by a live sounding band track, slinky groove, and a killer bridge. Springtime has that intro and the horn charts.
Ida Lee and most of the pre-Dan stuff is kinda weird...like Bacharach on LSD played by Brian Jones (Rolling Stones) and arranged by a constipated Carole King.
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 22:35:15 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
To Alex T:
RE: For "What a Shame", even I don't hear anything (that certainly does NOT mean that it isn't there!) in pre-CBAT Dan that correlates for that tune. And I have been doing alot of pre-CBAT "Straining" of late. There are, however INTERMEDIATE tunes in the Steely Dan/Solo Fagen discography, the "derivation" chain thru which "What a Shame" most likely evolved. For a pre-CBAT tune to "leapfrog" over almost the entire discography (while "possible")and not be detected at this point, or even back in 2000, would not be "probable".
But you never know! :o)
Hope someone else gets it. You might want to put out a HINT and see what happens.
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 22:15:52 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer ,
The latest Strainer was:
(Spotlight on pre-CBAT Dan for tonight’s Strainer. “Throw Back The Little Ones”, or TBTLO as its acronym, has gotten lots of press recently on the Bluebook, particularly with a very plausible, intriguing, WELL received (yet STILL speculative!) dissection of its theme. In the Strainer/Hemorrhager realm we deal with primarily SONIC “derivations”—“speculative”(if you must) as well.
Which brings us to TBTLO, which is a very unique sounding Dan song and is the “coda” of the Katy Lied, as was mentioned. Among Dan tunes, it seems to be one of the most “non-derivative” , whereas “ Big Noise NY” and title track “EMG” represent a textbook, HIGHLY derivative pairing. But not so fast.
There IS, in fact, a pre-CBAT tune(“kick ass”, if you will, maybe the finest ever put out by the Dan, some say) with a very similar tempo and soulful backbeat that in the hands of “Derivin’ Don” Fagen executing a few tweaks in lead vocal key and choral harmonies TBTLO could very well have emerged. Pay particular attention to this tune’s rhythm guitar work and the Don's vocal style at the end of each chorus’s refrain.
Difficulty level is about 5.5 out of 10.)
We have had several answers for this Strainer, and I won't say at this time whether or not they are "correct" or "incorrect". After some colourful libations and conference with the St. Lawrence Seaway Steely Consultants today while cruising on the Sea Ray, there is ANOTHER good answer that has NOT been mentioned. So we need to go into a BONUS round for this one for which one Strainer point will be awarded. So there is a possibility that this could be a THREE point play for some lucky responder.
For those who responded, your answers will be considered in the current queue, but you have chance to change your "final" answers. Otherwise your answers will stand AS IS, in the order submitted. For the BONUS tune (answer not yet given) the field is wide open.
There WILL be some excellent Steely discussion coming out of this one, as it has taken an ironic twist. So stay tuned for the hair-raising conclusion.
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 21:24:19 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, @home
If they're on your list of favorite bands, I highly recommend going to see Rush on their Time Machine tour. Saw them over the weekend and it was a great show.
KC
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 19:46:10 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour
So Bob,
Your response to my humor is a series of personal insult, and the threat of violence. Can you say "thug"? You are a real class act, Bob.
Cerpin, thanks for the Fever Dreams archive.
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 19:10:08 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!
Date: Wed, June 23, 2010, 05:36:52 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
CerpinTaxt
Through With Buzz is all about coke if you're into coke. If not, it's about Buzz. But then again, if you're into coke, everything is usually all about coke.
For a copy of the old Fever Dreams site, visit:
http://web.archive.org/web/20071020052110re_/cordmeyer.spymac.com/
Personally I prefer calfskin now, and I'm so through with buff.
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 17:26:18 ET
Posted by: Alkali, NYC
then the correct answer is Yellow peril, no?
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 17:04:43 ET
Posted by: Nope, eeeee
Fagen doesn't sing Mock Turtle.
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 16:57:07 ET
Posted by: Alkali, NYC
the answer to TBTLO has got to be Mock Turtle, yes?
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 16:51:44 ET
Posted by: Alkali, hey, who let the FCC in here?!
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 16:43:46 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Give it a rest Uncle Bob.
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 15:45:00 ET
Posted by: The X Factor, Minneapolis
Anyone have a working link to the Fever Dreams website? I know it's been down for a while, but iirc there's a wayback machine link floating around somewhere...
Thanks in advance!
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 14:58:47 ET
Posted by: Uncle Bob, The Busybody Tight-Ass
Ribald humor does not offend me, Dean...
It's the wretchedly misguided attempt to be clever and the utter lack of judgment in your response to that girl that does...
And it's people like you--self-important, megalomaniacal, legend-in-your-own-room assholes--who drove people like me (and countless others) away from this board years ago...
Let me remove any confusion you may have in how I feel--If you had made those same remarks to MY 17 year-old daughter/niece/sister and made them in my presence, you'd be eating your meals through a straw for a very long time...
Asshole...
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 10:39:26 ET
Posted by: Alex , T
re: The latest Brain Strainer. A review of Two Against Nature stated that the melody of What a Shame About Me was lifted from an "early years" demo song. Name that song.
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 09:53:25 ET
Posted by: Janie Runaway,
lol @ anyone on a Steely Dan board being offended by off-color humor.
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 09:51:31 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
I have never thought of Babylon Sisters as "hookers" nor Almost Gothic as "damaged goods".
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 09:45:54 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Uncle Bob,
Again, I took the liberty of including a little ribald humor in my post. Apparently that offends you.
Steely Daughter is turning 18 and planning to get a tattoo. As she has been "pouring through" Dan lyrics, she has no doubt encountered things unseemlier than what I have posted (although they were certainly more eloquently worded).
Yes I am comfortable that my harmless bit of fun was neither insulting, nor anything worse than what this young lady has likely heard in the past.
Of course, if Steely Daughter was offended, she has my sincere apology and assurance that I meant no disrespect toward her, or her father.
As for you, Bob, you get no apology. I won't apologize to a humorless busybody tight-ass.
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 09:43:12 ET
Posted by: steely , downer
Thing is, Babylon Sisters is about, like, hookers, right? Almost Gothic is damaged goods, and Rose Darling is about a 14 year old's right hand.
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 07:34:51 ET
Posted by: YourGoldKeith, NYC
Steely Daughter: as honorable as the idea might be intended, might I suggest a beautiful, yet somewhat less permanent alternative: Henna Tatoos. They are beautiful, simple, painless, and age reasonably quickly and without scar, and could serve as a warmup, per se, for the idea of a more permanent imprint.
(You must know there is an emotional factor to presenting your body as canvas; one which can change with the tides.)
My idea is merely that you don't scar yourself permanently (for now), assuming that you have have an unblemished canvas currently.
I think Babylon Sister is a wonderful suggestion, and yet, Almost Gothic is another fine one.
a Rose, with the text Rose Darling, might also be cool...
Just a side thought to your well intended Honor - I have a Goddaughter your age, and would advise her the same...
peace,
ygk
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 07:25:15 ET
Posted by: Uncle Bob,
We're not ALL adults, Dean...The young woman you were replying to clearly states that she is seventeen years old and was asking for suggestions for a tribute to her father, not sick sexual innuendo from some "regular handle" poster...
And noting that something is "a bit off color" doesn't make it right nor does it make it humorous or acceptable...
And how I choose to "sign in" doesn't make one damn bit of difference...I've been on this board for a long, long time as both a regular poster and a casual observer and I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly...
Your post was tasteless, inappropriate and ugly...
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 07:04:24 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
There have been some interesting responses thus far, which could lead to a surprising development when this latest Strainer is resolved. Thinking aloud, thought processes are excellent, but responders should try to "lock in", as Regis or Meredith would say, on a "final" answer. There could be more.
Anyhow, getting ready to meet the "crew" at the Dreaded Marina and embark on a more than three hour tour on my "new" (2009 leftover) Sea Ray and ponder a Strainer resolution (or more Strainers) while underway. There should be NO tar balls or oil slicks, but that stuff has been working its way into the darndest of places. So you never know.
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 05:06:16 ET
Posted by: Old -, Timer
Steely Daughter : as father of three grown up daughters and old enough to face my own mortality on a daily basis, I got a bit emotional over the tattoo idea for your dad. My youngest is now your age and she still talks about me dancing round the house to 'Bodhisattva' while she clung precariously to my shoulders, giggling.
Over the years I guess she picked up on how SD was one of the few things in the world that made her grumpy old man come alive.
If it was me looking down on her now I would have to go with one of The Dean's suggestions - 'Babylon Sister'. To me that seems like the archetypal icon for every female who ever inhabited the Steely Universe, in whatever capacity . . . . . . .
Date: Wed, July 07, 2010, 02:01:21 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu , talk talk walk walk
Don't Let Me in and Come Back Baby still sound compelling. The rest is crap, recording-wise that is. Hey, ya gotta start somewhere!
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 23:47:20 ET
Posted by: My Guess, Home
Again in my haste (who can blame me, Cerpin Taxt was right on my tail), I forgot about the Richard Pryor movie. I've never listened to that one before. I'm checking out Dog Eat Dog on youtube.
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 23:37:45 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
Hutch, Reuben: Thanks - and keep working the puzzler. You'll appreciate the heart of Dan even more.
The coda to TBTLO is interesting as part (the very end) was an ad lib by Michael Omartian...but leading to it was written out. It's indeed a Finnegan, begin again moment.
In a way SD reminds me of Verbal Kint/aka U know who... from The Usual suspects. He weaves a tense and compelling story that seems real...and then we realize it's all been made up, patched from the bulletin board clips, newspaper articles, the coffee cup,etc. Like comedians from the 60s and 70s making creating stories from the everyday and seemingly random pastiche into intertwined masterpieces.
Note how the location of the studios and the neighborhoods are strewn throughout a good bit of the discography.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbqkL2pZR6c&feature=related
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 23:31:38 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!
Hive mind aside, upon a second (closer) read...
I've never really heard the You Gotta Walk It soundtrack. AFAIK, not counting You Gotta Walk It, the pre-CBAT tracks with guitar are:
Undecided
Brain Tap Shuffle
Brooklyn
Mock Turtle Song
A Horse In Town
Ida Lee
This Seat's Been Taken
Come Back Baby
Don't Let Me In
Old Regime
Soul Ram
I Can't Function
Let George Do It
The only other one I KIND OF hear in relation to TBTLO is "Come Back Baby" because of the "My old man never told me how" bit.
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 23:25:40 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
SteelyDaughter: I cannot fathom that there could be any choice other than "Deacon Blue." And I hope you were cognizant of the scope of the help you would receive in these parts when you decided to log on/in.
The Dean: I've given my children a charge to go on a similar quest. As 'blue' as some of your suggestions might have been, I hope you are here to repeat them all and more. As professional father of 12, I've tried to instill in them (what one's that can perceive) the ability and aplomb to accept, or decline gracefully, help offered them in good faith and sincerity. They know that LMFAO funny (as yours was) is a super de duper (as the purple dinosaur's is) bonus.
Fezzie: you and your noise-- or should I say Traitor's Din?
BH/BS: I was just about to get to "Dog Eat Dog." Thanks.
Reckon those posts were really from Mr. M?
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 23:21:10 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!
BS: Roaring of the Lamb?
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 23:19:45 ET
Posted by: My Guess, home
Of all the demos sung by Fagen, to me Roaring of the Lamb best clicks as sounding like it could have been re-worked into TBTLO. But like most of the demos sun by Fagen, there's no guitar.
Ida Lee.
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 22:15:00 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
Spotlight on pre-CBAT Dan for tonight’s Strainer. “Throw Back The Little Ones”, or TBTLO as its acronym, has gotten lots of press recently on the Bluebook, particularly with a very plausible, intriguing, WELL received (yet STILL speculative!) dissection of its theme. In the Strainer/Hemorrhager realm we deal with primarily SONIC “derivations”—“speculative”(if you must) as well.
Which brings us to TBTLO, which is a very unique sounding Dan song and is the “coda” of the Katy Lied, as was mentioned. Among Dan tunes, it seems to be one of the most “non-derivative” , whereas “ Big Noise NY” and title track “EMG” represent a textbook, HIGHLY derivative pairing. But not so fast.
The IS, in fact, a pre-CBAT tune(“kick ass”, if you will, maybe the finest ever put out by the Dan, some say) with a very similar tempo and soulful backbeat that in the hands of “Derivin’ Don” Fagen executing a few tweaks in lead vocal key and choral harmonies TBTLO could very well have emerged. Pay particular attention to this tune’s rhythm guitar work and the Don's vocal style at the end of each chorus’s refrain.
Difficulty level is about 5.5 out of 10.
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 22:08:13 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Um, let's see. Yes, I made a joke on a couple, and even noted they were a bit off color. But we're adults, right?
Have you ZERO sense of humor.
Then again, why should I care what some Anon, who refuses to use a regular handle, has to say? I don't.
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 21:38:34 ET
Posted by: Really?,
As tasteless and inappropriate a post as I have ever seen on here, Dean...
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 21:30:37 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Steely Daughter, here are some suggestions:
Steely Dan (right to the point)
Donald and Walter
Can't Buy a Thrill or Countdown to Ecstasy (depending on the placement, that could be a real winner)
Aja (with a real nice Asian/Oriental design)
Pretzel Logic (again, with appropriate artwork)
I was thinking Dirty Work on the backside and Fire in the Hole upfront. But you are a nice 18 year old girl and that is a disgusting suggestion. Let's try to keep it clean. Obviously Sign in Stranger is right out!
Pearl of the Quarter (might be nice if you frequent New Orleans.)
Black Friday (would be a hoot, if you work on Wall Street.)
Babylon Sister
Almost Gothic
Pixeleen (with some appropriate artwork)
Going Insane...Laughing at the Frozen Rain. (A bit long, but nice.) or on that same theme: Bad Sneakers (with a picture of a piсa colada)
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 21:08:52 ET
Posted by: An Old Friend,
"He meant to shine, to the end of the line..."
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 21:03:45 ET
Posted by: Alkali, NYC
Well , SDAUGHTER I can tell from experience that a certain ex girlfriend of mine took offense at the suggestion of having the line “I would love to tour the Southland in a travelling minstrel show” tattooed on her lower back a.k.a tramp-stamp. she said she wanted a tattoo on her ankle not her back. I said that line wouldn’t work there.
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 20:57:08 ET
Posted by: chris, nh
steely daughter, i think steely dan lyrics might be a bit too Freudian (read: gross) for that, but perhaps someone will prove me wrong
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 20:51:12 ET
Posted by: hoops, Fireside, N Ravenswood Ave, Chgo
Been at the Fireside Lounge for the past two hours. All they are playing is Steely Dan and Miles Davis' Kind of Blue.
Heaven.
More Pinot!
(thanks for indulging me. I'll unlock your app phone too. )
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 20:27:31 ET
Posted by: Steely Daughter, IL
It's been quite a while since I've posted -- actually, the last time was probably around December 2008, shortly after my dad passed away. My dad was a die-hard Steely Dan fan, as well as an avid poster on the Bluebook, though I was never able to determine under which username he posted.
Anyway, I'm getting ready to turn 18, and I am considering a tattoo to commemorate dear 'ol dad. I was thinking of using a short phrase from one of their songs, or preferably just a two-word phrase. I have been poring through lyrics, but I thought the opinion of some more knowledgeable Dan Fans couldn't hurt. Thank you.
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 19:01:03 ET
Posted by: fezzie, boston
No problem,over and out!!!!! please tell jim to delete,ty fezzie
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 19:00:06 ET
Posted by: hoops, Lady buying me a martini
Know how hard it is to delete after 2 martinis from an iPhone?
Clunk.
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 18:51:08 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour
Actually Fezzie, Hoops has made it VERY clear, on a number of occasions that posters should not be trading (or even blatantly discussing) bootleg SD on this forum. I appreciate the offer, actually. But it's the kind of thing that can get Fearless Leader in trouble. At least have some respect for that.
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 12:22:08 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Thanks.
I thought I missed something here.
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 12:14:37 ET
Posted by: Alkali, NYC
The Dean,
the latest Dandom digest claims otherwise:-)
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 11:58:35 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Alkali,
WTF was that all about? Did someone here claim Nichols and Williams wrote Close to You? A quick search reveals nothing here.
I am confused.
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 11:39:17 ET
Posted by: Alkali, NYC
"(They Long to Be) Close to You" is a popular song written by Burt Bacharach and Hal David. It was first recorded by Richard Chamberlain and released as a single in 1963 as "They Long to Be Close to You," without parentheses. However, it was the single's flip side, "Blue Guitar," that became a hit. Although Richard Chamberlain recorded the first version, the tune was also recorded as a demo by Dionne Warwick in 1963 and re-recorded with a Burt Bacharach arrangement for her 1964 album Make Way for Dionne Warwick, and was released as the B-side of her 1965 single "Here I Am." Bacharach released his own version in 1968. But the version recorded by The Carpenters is the most well known, which became a big hit in 1970.
NOT Roger Nichols and Paul Williams!
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 10:33:18 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
I had always thought of the little coda at the end was a sort of solemn affirmation that "this is life; and it will continue thus"-- a musical "so it goes," if you will. In a number about the production of numbers, that might even make sense.
Now what kind of moderator would foster this kind of rational thought AND discussion?
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 10:19:15 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Now this is what I'm talkin' about!
Well done Mu. Makes perfect sense.
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 09:48:24 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Doc Mu:
You deserve some sort of standing ovation for that.
Perceptive in extremis I think. ;-)
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 09:24:47 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Doc Mu, that was truly outstanding!
I thought the "lazy comment" with respect to The Dan's lyrics was laughably unjust. They are anything but lazy when it comes to writing their music. While a very few songs have remained a mystery to me, many started that way. I have found that, with enough thought (and/or discussion) I was able to penetrate the meaning (or at least construct a viable narrative) of most of the discography.
I admit, though, TBTLO was one that had always escaped me. I probably didn't give it enough of a chance, as I considered it one of the lesser SD songs when it was first released. I have real come around on it over the years, but haven't done the work on the lyrics. I doubt I would have cracked the code as well as you seem to have.
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 07:46:39 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
Wow, Doc,W&D clue aside, that just shows why a 50-year-old,prideful (arrogant and stoopid) man should go back and revisit, rethink, and revise opinions of stuff he chiselled in stone as a know-nothing (prideful and ignorant) 18-year-old. I didn't even have the lyrics right in my head.
In an unrelated matter, I had wished I had the musical acumen (any) to participate in what you've thrown out here as a genuinely challenging (evidently), yet easily verifiable, little test of sonic assimilation that hasn't raised nearly the interest, response, or hackle of a "BH is BS." Pity. Since you've shown me that I need to go back and discover what all about is America's greatest rock and roll band (maybe this time sober and in a place where they aren't bricking the very air and selling it as hashish,) perhaps I can take to your gauntlet on the purely physical evidence alone. I see that you've dropped some of my scales, and I thank you.
Date: Tues, July 06, 2010, 01:24:22 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu, to live and die in LA
W&D dropped a hint or two years back, consistent with a couple of thoughts I've had about TBTLO:
The song more or less is about the songwriting/recording/dealing with session musicians /road tour process. Something insane in the 70s, about which to write another seedy Steely Dan song with almost a Rockford Files cast of characters.
It also is related to W&D's songwriting style which is about editing, editing, editing. Take a snippet. Turn it around. Flush it out...or save for another day.
"Lost in the Barrio I walk like an Injun
So Carlo won't suspect something's wrong here
I dance in place
And paint my face
And act like I belong here"
The ABC-Dunhill studios where SD recorded included Cherokee Studios/Sound (opened in 1972) in West Hollywood near Sunset Blvd... and the Village Recorder in LA (on Santa Monica near Culver City). Roger Nichols was the Chief technical engineer for both studios. W&D were relatively new to handling great studio musicians. They had a good cop/bad cop schtick to get what they wanted.
Pawn shops were uptown and towards East LA.
CHORUS:
"Throw back the little ones
And pan-fry the big ones"
Save the snippets that don't fit, which giving a winning tune the full studio Dan treatment
"Use tact, poise and reason
And gently squeeze them"
Get the most out of Carlton, McDonald, Porcaro today, tomorrow, next week.
"Hot licks and rhetoric
Don't count much for nothing
Be glad if you can use what you borrow"
Tasty solos borrowed from the broad jazz catalogs and bass lines from Horace Silver count for more than fusion shredding.
"So I pawn my crown
For a ride uptown
And buy it back tomorrow"
W&D spent a lot of their own $$ to hire the best in the studio. Rikki's royalties paid them back for awhile, until they made it big with Aja.
"Done like a matador I pray for the weekend
And hope the little girls still throw roses"
We'll hit the road one last time
"Else I'll change my bait
And move upstate
Before the season closes"
They burrowed in the studio and resided until the 80s.
HINT on altered blues vamp tunes. One has no real chorus. Name those tunes.
Date: Mon, July 05, 2010, 21:58:46 ET
Posted by: Fred, "Chicago," "On location," "Ooo-La-La!", "How's my little girl?", etc.
re: Throw Back the Little Ones lyrics. An early reviewer of Katy Lied wrote that if they were too lazy to write lyrics with any penetrability, why should he care what they mean? He cited TBTLO for a specific example. I don't know if I would call it laziness, but that's always how I've felt.
Date: Mon, July 05, 2010, 21:01:43 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
Even now when I consider catheterization and definitely stop at the Rent-a-Prostate on the way into the venue, I can't fathom why anyone would leave the concert during music hours regardless of who might be singing or how. I like the sinisterness and even greater bleakness of the Becker version and its lyrics. Where does it come from sonically? Shrug. In what vein were the lyrics penned? Probably discussions from the visiting day room at Hard Knox Rehab.
Strainer answers are not so definite when a best answer is one that the examiner didn't even know existed comes along.
I was recalling that the concept of the third guy, Mr. Steely Dan (or whatever,) came up when B&F were sitting on a couch with Vickie Cave or when they were trying to decide during a composition session who was going to be Humbert, so the other one could be Humbert.
TBtLO is such an exercise in sinuousness that it's hard to imagine a writer, especially of the Rolling Stone stripe, to get confused and refer to my favorite duo as "worms." At the sallee privy or Nathan Detroit's or in the exercise yard of the big house, the denizens are always happy to welcome new "fish." Think of David Frye taking Richard Nixon to prison to meet Truman Capote. And B&F even understand the "you can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can only skin him once" axiom. Masterful. I always thought though that it was sort of a gigilo thing, and the "fish" were females. I should probably revisit this stuff before I shoot off my big fingers, but my children have just loved that the last couple of days.
And what about that birthday present, Mr. McKay?
Date: Mon, July 05, 2010, 13:28:38 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Jim, great input as usual. I wish you had time to post more often.
I remember, way back in the 70's, Don and Walt giving a small bit of insight into how they write songs. At that time, Don said he started the writing of most (but not all) of their songs. I got the impression the "starting" may be a small idea, a snippet of a tune, etc. It may bear no real resemblance to the final product. And then the two of them (and Steely Dan) develop the song. I remember him saying Barrytown was one song he wrote on his own (and he made a disparaging comment about it not being too good).
As for Jack of Speed, I remember it clearly after hearing Walt sing it in concert in 96. While many were streaming toward the restroom and concessions, my friend and I were very taken with the song, and with Walt's performance. I like both versions a lot, and flip between which I like best.
Date: Mon, July 05, 2010, 13:01:22 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago
BTW:
Been thinking about "Throw Back The Little Ones" lately.
What is your interpretation of the lyrics?
Happy 4th + 1,
Jim
Date: Mon, July 05, 2010, 12:57:41 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago
Regarding brain strainer threads in general and specifically the "Jack of Speed" brain strainer:
What's great about the Brain Strainer threads is that they get people thinking and, hopefully, developing a greater depth of appreciation of what goes into a Steely Dan song. At the same time, even the "answers" are somewhat in the vein of a fever dream.
With regards to the "Jack of Speed" "strainer," there are some curious responses, but even the "answer" is far from definitive. The comparisons to "Century's End" and "Countermoon" remind me of someone who claims three Monets are derivative because all three are pointillistic and have a palette leaning heavily towards greens, blues and lavenders.
I've hardly seen where Becker and Fagen seriously discuss who does what, although I have developed my own private opinion on it. I do remember some funny response from them when an interviewer asked something like, "What do each of you bring to the table when writing a Steely Dan song?" Their response was something about flatware and dishes, I think. The Brain Strainer response about Donald having written "Jack..." and then he "let Walter sing" crosses a boundary from speculation to outright rudeness and disrespect towards our favorite duo. I don't think they ever even come close to saying something like that.
The discussions about who contributes what in a Steely Dan song can be interesting, but one thing I remember them talking about is that when Becker and Fagen get together to write a song, it's as if a third person enters the room and that third person is named Steely Dan.
That said, my fever dream is that "Century's End" toys with some of the same elements in what I have heard of "The Second Arrangement."
Best,
Jim
Date: Sun, July 04, 2010, 23:18:38 ET
Posted by: Brutus Charisma,
Auntie Em -
Frig the charts! WB sounds so natural on that one. And it would have been a nice vocal debut after all those fresh and vainglorious years.
Date: Sun, July 04, 2010, 20:16:42 ET
Posted by: Emily M,, Chi town
Maybe they made Jack of Speed more like Century's End since that was a minor hit. Making it like a live version, especially with Walt singing they figured it would not even make the charts.
Date: Sun, July 04, 2010, 18:47:29 ET
Posted by: lyrics to go, quad city
Everybody get up it's time to slam now
We got a real jam goin' down
Welcome to the Space Jam
Here's your chance, do your dance at the Space Jam
Alright....
Date: Sun, July 04, 2010, 17:19:23 ET
Posted by: Brutus Charisma,
Geoff -
Agreed. The 3 most ambitious songs on 2VN are AG, NG and WOH.
I really, really wished that they would have recorded JOS the way it was performed at the Manassas concert - slightly faster tempo, louder/rockish dynamic w/ WB singing lead and a ripping guitar solo ala Krantz and a definite coda - that would have been outstanding.
Also, I really feel that GA would have been vastly more effective at a slightly faster tempo, with ABSOLUTELY NO SOLOS, NO REPEATED ENDING but a coda with a spookier (more macabre) ending - descending whole tone planing, The chorus favors the whole tone approach - maybe end the song that way - that's what gives that tune it's unique flavor (the whole tone planing). Otherwise it's most a funky vamp thru the verses.
Date: Sun, July 04, 2010, 14:34:29 ET
Posted by: Geoff, Deep Ellum, Dallas TX
Negative Girl is one of my favorite Steely Dan tunes. But after all these years the only song I'm not crazy about is Hey 19, in spite of its originallity, brilliant arrangement etc.
Date: Sun, July 04, 2010, 11:07:23 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
"...keep walkin'. Stay on your feet. And don't stop talkin'."
or alternatively:
"... Get up. Everybody gonna leave their seat. Get down. Everybody gotta move your feet..."
Date: Sat, July 03, 2010, 23:39:14 ET
Posted by: Old Saybrook Police, CT
We've yet to get confirmation. The file hasn't been closed.
Date: Sat, July 03, 2010, 07:08:14 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
"The arrogance is astounding."
Breathtaking - 'tis true!!
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 22:28:24 ET
Posted by: To negative dude, here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sr_FREOoOQ
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 21:43:14 ET
Posted by: negative dude,
I'd like to see that Strainer come up with some derivative for Negative Girl.
HA! I say no way!
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 21:35:21 ET
Posted by: consonants for $200, Alex,
Another hiNt on the 2 related vamps: bass in boogie woogie
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 21:33:09 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
I thought of Gina as the Grim Reaper fitting in with the album's theme....or aging (this endless afternoon) An appointment you don't want to keep.
We got nothin' but time. There's nobody home. Like meat on a bone. The waiter never comes. Lunch with Gina is forever. Maybe later, maybe never.
...or not...she's just a stalker.
Regardless, this song should have been the lead single. Bands should really let their fans pick the potential hits out for them ;)
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 21:24:09 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
Another hit on the 2 related vamps: bass in boogie woogie
Negative Girl is sublime. Recorded live in just 2 days, and a clinic in rhythm guitar and accents. NY neuroses meets style. Hey, and there's Vinny C! ...and a magnifico vibe solo that really swings. There's a lot of little things in it style. Listen for the modem and train whistle.
I thought this was going to be the approach to EMG. In a way...they did record the tracks live...but good songs recorded over 40s blues didn't really get going until the going got weird. Godwhacker, Slang of Ages, then especially Greenbook through the finale.
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 19:58:19 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. Last Call for Happy Hour
One more comment re: Negative Girl.
It seems to me Gina is the Negative Girl, years later. The narrator is a little wiser, does his best to steer clear of her manic, frustrating world. He probably wonders "how/why did I ever get involved with this woman?" But in the end, he realizes why. Probably even recalls dancing with her, in the summer rain.
Just a thought of course. No quiz or inane claim of derivation. No points will be awarded for agreeing with me. You aren't wrong if you disagree.
Then again, some will insist Gina is totally about drugs. My retort is: then so is Negative Girl.
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 18:24:25 ET
Posted by: Denise, heading down the cape
Love Negative girl, the female version or Mr. Steely Dan. She's got a story, but you're hearing it from the other side. Lucious vibes. Beautiful ending (in the summer rain).
BTW, I enjoy the brain striners. Can't get them most often (if ever!) but I find it interesting all the same.
Enjoy the long weekend everyone.
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 18:14:21 ET
Posted by: aGoofAbuzz, A
SD is known for overloading syllables. By contrast, a lot of people feel the chorus to Negative Girl sounds as if it has too few and they have a hard time taking to it.
Is it about a girl they met at the bloodmobile?
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 18:04:18 ET
Posted by: Dismayed,
The latest Brain Hemorrhager quiz has convinced me. The quizes and "answers" are based on conjecture.
Disappointing.
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 16:33:18 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour
I never could understand the hate some seem to have for Negative Girl. It's ambitious and absolutely beautiful. It's right there with Almost Gothic, IMO. (Sisters? Perhaps. I certainly know both girls who are like one or the other, and one girl that can be either or both, depending on the mood.)
BTW, didn't you just love the following from BS/BH:
"there are FOUR songs in this chain of derivation..."
The arrogance is astounding.
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 14:15:43 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Warner Brother:
Absolutely adore Negative Girl.
One of my all time favourite Dan tracks.
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 14:00:02 ET
Posted by: Abraham, U
I still remember the sound snippet available to download prior to the release of tVn. "She's in the zone...." It was reassuring because it sounded exactly like Steely Dan (who knew what would happen after all those years?) and they clearly put the effort in. I wasn't as pleased with the emg snippets. It sounded like Steely Dan lite.
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 13:33:28 ET
Posted by: upchucking on a couch somewhere,
"Listen Dansters to "negative Girl" at least 3 Xs consecutively"
without thinking, i did it. and here's what happened (to the music of the verse)
I gagged, I choked
My ears began to smoke
And still, I'm, ill
And cannot wait until
I take a pepto pill
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 12:32:30 ET
Posted by: Dale, DC
"Listen Dansters to "negative Girl" at least 3 Xs consecutively"
Never liked that song. Maybe one of the only songs in the SD catalog that I don't care for
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 10:51:27 ET
Posted by: My Guess, contemplating retirement. I'm as has been
Carelessness on my part to not discern between 'Trilogy' and 'Discography', and I did think about Century's End. I still would have gone with Countermoon. The intros to it and Jack are too similar for me to not go with that answer.
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 10:08:45 ET
Posted by: Warner Brother,
Listen Dansters to "negative Girl" at least 3 Xs consecutively and feel the fucking brilliance.
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 10:00:12 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
The latest Strainer was:
"During an interview after the release of "Two Against Nature" DF was incredulous about how the music biz had changed since it was about 7 years since his last solo release and 20 since his last Dan studio effort. For DF it was like a Rip Van WInkle awakening as he described some young punk record "exec" advising on how to promote the album and that "Jack of Speed" was to be the "focus" tune. At that suggestion, once he got beyond the incredulity, DF perhaps felt a warmth and satisfaction inside that "Jack" was chosen to be the "focus" and was most likely derived, sonically from a tune from the Fagen Solo Discography.
Name that tune.
Difficulty level is prolly about 4.5."
This "Strainer" apparently has almost risen to "Hemorrhager" levels. Difficulty levels are always a bone of contention, the toughest thing to gauge. So much so, it is time for HINT.
HINT: Obviously the Fagen Solo "Discography" (as the Strainer states) contains more tunes than does the Fagen "Trilogy"
The critical aspect for this Strainer was the expansion of the boundary of the question to the Fagen “Discography” rather than the customary “Trilogy”, or “Trilogy Boxed Set” with which most Danfans are familiar. Too quick of a reaction to solve it would in fact lead to the choice of “Countermoon” as the best fit, for “Jack of Speed” if confined to the Fagen Trilogy. Chronology of discography also plays into it and “Countermoon” (circa 1992) being closest in the chain of “derivation” to “Jack of Speed” (circa 1999), and there are FOUR songs in this chain of derivation, if we go back into the Old Testament Dan. “Countermoon’s” bass line, tempo/backbeat line up very closely to “Jack” and based on that aspect alone make it a wise choice.
Other factors come into play, however, and sometimes the “derivation” chain is “leap-frogged”, and in this case we need to go back to a Fagen tune from the soundtrack of “Bright Lights, Big City” (circa 1988) to get the “best fit for “Jack of Speed” which is “Century’s End” which has more sonic factors, such as the shrill doubling of Fagen’s voice on the chorus/refrain, the meandering flow and tone of Fagen’s voice as he sings the verses of “Century” and “Jack”. On “Countermoon”, Fagen’s voice and pitch do NOT change significantly in the chorus/refrain from the verson. By contrast his voice rises and becomes doubled and more shrill, and the refrain PUNCTUATES the end of each song’s movements, even though Fagen changes the number and type of notes and sequence. In addition, “Countermoon” could almost be thought of as a stripped down, acoustic version of “Jack” or “Century”, stripped of the choral harmonies and strong use of wind instrumentation present on “Jack” and “Century”. The poster “Skatin’ Backwards” who “backed” into but was first with the “best” answer. Although “Skatin Backwards” understandably leaned toward “Countermoon” at the last second, he is now on the board with one Strainer point.
EPILOGUE: Among the responses it was mentioned that “Jack of Speed” had existed and had been trotted out in various forms at various shows, and sung by Walt B. prior to its appearance on TvN in March of 2000, and was speculated to be a “Walt” song, we might NOW conclude that it most likely is a “Fagen” song that Walt was permitted to sing. That, and a relatively unknown report that was leaked by a custodial worker who was present in the room at the time Fagen was informed that “Jack of Speed” was to be the “focus” tune. For Fagen, to have the “focus” tune be based on a song (Century’s End) that was created during his self-described “mental block” period of the mid to late 1980’s was extremely uplifting. The custodial worker reported that Fagen, when informed about the “focus” tune, he smiled a Grinchy smile and that his heart grew TWO sizes……..
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 00:03:27 ET
Posted by: uno mas thing,
oh, Josie's theme is not repeated...exactly
Date: Fri, July 02, 2010, 00:02:06 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
actually: Josie is ascending/descending/ascending...but I like the thinking
hints: SD catalog to narrow things
one vamp with the keys...the other bass
Date: Thurs, July 01, 2010, 22:58:23 ET
Posted by: SS, HK
Warner Brother, you are 100% right. I might argue that is WB's finest moment on the bass.
Date: Thurs, July 01, 2010, 19:00:43 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
Not only also that, but also:
Seems as if someone is approaching a milestone (millstone; Miltown) nativity celebration time of the month. Tell me Mr. McKay, what would be a good birthday present for greater (or, perhaps in this case, lesser) Dandom to get for the guy who had everything?
i
In your "best" subjective ho
Con su permisso, El Jefe
Date: Thurs, July 01, 2010, 15:03:49 ET
Posted by: Jamie, Tampa
Does anyone else think Almost Gothic and Negative Girl are two sisters?
(One raven-haired temptress one red-haired)...well anyway. Hope everyone has a Steely filled smiley stylee day.
Pe@ce,
HymroD
Date: Thurs, July 01, 2010, 12:21:49 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
" Difficulty levels are always a bone of contention, the toughest thing to gauge" (sic)
Of course they are!!
They're just as much a guesses as the questions and supposed "correct" answers!! LOL
Date: Thurs, July 01, 2010, 12:11:11 ET
Posted by: Warner Brother,
Freaking WB sounds awesome on bass on this - wow - listen to note choices/lines - terrific:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Zng9MMM3w&feature=player_embedded#!
Date: Thurs, July 01, 2010, 11:14:32 ET
Posted by: Brain, County Lock Up
The latest Strainer was:
"During an interview after his release on child molestation charges Brain was incredulous about how the music biz had totally ignored him since his last attempt to "become a star" 7 years ago and 20 since his last time he was able to eat solid food. For Brain it was like a Rip Van WInkle awakening as he described some young punk was pissing on him as he tried to sleep on the park bench. At that suggestion, once he got beyond the incredulity, Brain perhaps felt a warmth and satisfaction inside that "He" was chosen to be the "focus" of this cute young lad's anger and it was most likely derived from a deep seated hatred for hobos. Or "drifter" as Brain now liked to be called.
Name that Steely Dan Album "most likely to contain" a good representation of Brain on the cover.
Difficulty level is prolly about 4.5."
This "Strainer" apparently has almost risen to "Hemorrhager" levels. Difficulty levels are always a bone of contention, the toughest thing to gauge. So much so, it is time for HINT.
HINT: Obviously it's the artwork that Don & Walt hate the most.
Date: Thurs, July 01, 2010, 09:31:44 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Hutch said:
"That's not to say that we can't have fun, but some things just strike me as being pointless. "
Pointless? Like posting that you will be posting a quiz, instead of just posting it (as if anyone takes the quiz aspect seriously)?
Pointless like naming some "Strainers" and others "Hemorrhagers" and assigning them values?
Pointless like awarding points and keeping track of how many answers various posters have guessed correctly (as if anyone takes the quiz aspect seriously)?
Well, yes. I think some things seem pretty pointless, too.
Date: Thurs, July 01, 2010, 08:46:41 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Don't get me wrong folks. This is a public forum. People can write whatever they want. We could spend an infinite amount of time on here analyzing lyrics and musical content of various songs they've released and it wouldn't bother me a bit. It seems to me that intelligent, insightful critique should be the Bluebook's strong point. That's not to say that we can't have fun, but some things just strike me as being pointless.
We are a small group of serious Steely Dan fans. There are a lot of Steely Dan fans out there. We are a small slice of the pie but there's no reason we can't be the tastiest piece of the pie.
Date: Thurs, July 01, 2010, 08:32:51 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Hutch:
And me mate - very much!!
Date: Thurs, July 01, 2010, 07:22:06 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
My Guess - Annoyed? Well, to tell you the truth... YES.
The whole strainer thing annoys me.
But hey.... that's just me.
Date: Thurs, July 01, 2010, 06:44:53 ET
Posted by: actually there are several pairs that it could be,
I've been working on this for about a week now.
Number one, we need to know what is meant by the "entire" catalog
Second, with the altered blues vamp like in Josie is that 6 note ascending then descending theme created by a bass or rhythm guitar?
Otherwise it cannot be determined from the information given.
Date: Thurs, July 01, 2010, 01:59:30 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
hoops: It's just an impression, but Jack, particularly with the horn chart and lyrics had a bit of a Royal Scam attitude and swing.
Date: Thurs, July 01, 2010, 01:56:50 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu ,
I didn't get any takes...so I will re-pose this question:
The intro to 2 songs within the entire catalog both begin with very similar altered blues vamps...one with a theme 5 notes long, finishing with an ascending climb beginning with the 3rd note.
The other vamp is a 6 note ascending then descending theme.
...both repeated for effect.
Name those tunes.
Date: Thurs, July 01, 2010, 01:37:50 ET
Posted by: Skatin' Backwards, Dean is right this is a guess a thon
Century's End and Countermoon are kind of the same. But of the two, I would say the latter is correct even though it's been declared wrong.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 23:51:17 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
See? Using only a fraction of the discography leads to embarrassment in 4/3 hintfree stabs. I guess my guess should have been "Love Will Find a Way"-- again, I d'arrived at my guess using the My Guess method exclusively. And of course the spirit of "Slang of Ages," "Black Cow," "Midnite Cruiser," "Oh Wow,It's You Again," and "This All Too Mobile Home" just gushes from the natural progression from Diana to Walter.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 22:35:49 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
Using My Guess' method exactly, I would have made my guess be, 'The Nightfly'. Not being hung up on "derived" is essential for any hem who doesn't want to end up straining hes "best" buttermilk. Except I know for a prevaricated fact that JoS was penned on the back of the same Stage Deli napkin that inspired a formative sketch of the tower on Mt. Belzoni. Of course, JoS was a different ink, but it was tattooed with the same needle that beget "The 'H' Gang," "Do it Again," and "This All Too Mobile Home.".
Here abouts, there are often communication problems because most of the people are ignorant, and the other majority is stupid. This is accepted because six out of every five people have problems with fractions (common & decimal) due to mathematical illiteracy. Crux of biscuit: what we have here, is failure to be the (blasphemy) Finklestein shit kid-- a simple misunderstanding --like a Coen brothers movie without (yet) the body stack. What if Pathetique (why jack MY gmail address?) meant, Walt W. was the WURST sax player ever: a tribute not only to Walt's ambidextrous virtuosity stuffing at the grinder and the subtle nuance of his nimble fingers at the spice rack, but also his uncanny knack for perfect embrasure as he exercises his consummate (Mayo-mad) skills as a gastro-intestinal surgeon and casing selecting afficcianado.
I'm just sayin'.
As usual, Kasey says, "Now on with the beat down. . . "
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 20:25:04 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
The latest Strainer was:
"During an interview after the release of "Two Against Nature" DF was incredulous about how the music biz had changed since it was about 7 years since his last solo release and 20 since his last Dan studio effort. For DF it was like a Rip Van WInkle awakening as he described some young punk record "exec" advising on how to promote the album and that "Jack of Speed" was to be the "focus" tune. At that suggestion, once he got beyond the incredulity, DF perhaps felt a warmth and satisfaction inside that "Jack" was chosen to be the "focus" and was most likely derived, sonically from a tune from the Fagen Solo Discography.
Name that tune.
Difficulty level is prolly about 4.5."
This "Strainer" apparently has almost risen to "Hemorrhager" levels. Difficulty levels are always a bone of contention, the toughest thing to gauge. So much so, it is time for HINT.
HINT: Obviously the Fagen Solo "Discography" (as the Strainer states) contains more tunes than does the Fagen "Trilogy"
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 19:35:09 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour
The smooth jazz remark really gave Pathetic away. (You can just tell by his user name that he knows he is a troll, here. Dontcha think?)
Don't like what you hear? Fine. I have no issue with that. But every time pathetic tries to go beyond his personal dislike, it all falls apart. That's because he is jazz ignorant. He has admitted as much.
Pathetic's post are most likely derived from any given post from NYB when he was off his meds and simply posting to get any reaction in order to feel somewhat important.
:#)
Allaboutjazz.com (a site that is, believe it or not, all about jazz) has pretty good things to say about Walt W. In a review of the Donald Fagen Band in LA, jazz writer Edward Kane has this to say:
http://www.jazzreview.com/article/review-4675.html
"One particular standout was saxophonist Walt Weiskopf, whose probing solos and robust yet smooth tone recalled Pharaoh Sanders to a significant degree."
You know, that smooth jazz, play it safe Pharaoh Sanders. :#)
In another review of that same band, this time in concert in Cleveland, jazz writer C. Andrew Hovan proclaims:
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=21270
"Walt Weiskopf updated the closing jam on "Black Cow and devoured the blues changes on the warhorse "Misery and the Blues, the latter proving to be an offbeat, but apropos number for Fagen's vocals. Weiskopf also sustained the mood with great poise throughout "Mary Shut the Garden Door, a striking number from the new album."
Of course, Hovan is an unabashed Weiskoph fan:
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=29934
"Most of us find that there are certain musicians who speak to us through their music in a profound way that makes for a special connection. These are the artists who find a prominent space in our collections because we continuously seek out all of their current musical endeavors. For this reviewer, saxophonist Walt Weiskopf has always been a musician to watch. Not to take anything away from other jazz saxophonists, but Weiskopf's musical persona is the complete package. He has an identifiable sound, chops aplenty, great ideas, and a strong emotional base that is often absent in other technically gifted players."
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 19:07:58 ET
Posted by: My Guess, home
Hutch,
I don't really get hung up the word "derived" as others do. The choices are limited to a track off off of either Nightfly or Kamakiriad. Countermoon, to these ears, seems like the strongest match. Tempo and arrangement and the the bass lines (especially in the opening notes) sound similar. I answered within 45 seconds of reading the question this morning. It's very much a "feel" thing for me. Maybe I'll study music theory some day and will be able to give an answer that doesn't annoy you.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 18:34:11 ET
Posted by: shark, huh?
"The tonal characteristic of his playing too closely resembles that omnipresent smooth jazz sound EVERYBODY sounds like these days."
so now Weiskopf is smooth jazz and takes ZERO risks???
hahahaha
wow. you really have no clue what you're talking about.
and I'd be willing to bet that Wayne Shorter thinks Walt is a helluva saxophonist. you know... because he is.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 16:50:04 ET
Posted by: hoops, just askin', on the quick
I also am wondering about which DF solo track "Jack of Speed" is derived from. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, it's just that I keep thinking of the first times I heard it--in 1996, with it sped up considerably, having a few different lyrics, and sung by Walter. To be sure I like both the 1996 and 2vN versions, but somehow, someway--maybe because Walter sang it--I thought of it practically as a Walter Becker solo song.
Looking forward to the answer. Many thanks.
Jim
P.S. Sorry, Can't keep up with some of the other tangents here, but I'd sure bet it's all rooted in our love for Steely Dan.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 16:38:13 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Let me repeat my question My Guess, and maybe this time I'll get a response that actually addresses the question.
Exactly what aspects of Countermoon make you think that Jack of Speed was "derived" from it?
Thanks
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 11:54:45 ET
Posted by: at LAST, AT LAST!
"But please, by all means, do enjoy Weiskopf"
Will do.
thanx
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 11:49:15 ET
Posted by: Path-e-tic,
Hold on a second. This is coming from the same person who for the past several DAYS has been ranking me for stating MY opinions? There is no absurdity on my part, only a direct and honest opinion.
You're the one who insinuated that my opinions held no weight on the basis that I don't particularly care for old jazz, did you not? Your posts are sitting right there. Indeed, you stated it again: my opinions are "baseless and ignorant," and have the gull to call something subjective a fact. You're not only ignorant, you're egotistical as well.
The world doesn't beat to the sound of one drum. But please, by all means, do enjoy Weiskopf and his brand of nonsensical, unmelodic, lack of passion, ZERO risk-taking. But at least he's figured out how to noodle out the same tired sequential phrases ad nausea. That has to count for something.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 11:37:52 ET
Posted by: innocent reader, City
<dodging mud>
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 11:37:50 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
YOU're telling me about MY problems? Who's got the ego now?
You have no idea what I expect, and I'm just merely making mention of the complete and utter absurdity in your own original comment.
I'm just pointing out the fact that your opinion as stated is baseless and ignorant - so if you don't care, then don't. It just is.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 11:28:37 ET
Posted by: Path-etic,
Nothing new from the Blue.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 11:27:49 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
"Patronizing" and "ego"???!!!
God forbid!! LOL
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 11:16:43 ET
Posted by: path-e-tic,
ygk, your problem is, you have a forced set of expectations. In order for someone's opinions to be validated in your biased judgement, you expect them to listen to and enjoy the same music that you do which is absurd. And thanks for patronizing me. Of course, you have insight into my (vast) music library and therefore can make all sorts of wide-sweeping generalizations about constitutes a worthy opinion. Can you say "ego"?
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 11:05:42 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh
I should clarify my earlier remarks about the band "getting the job done" -- I don't mean to deride any of the guys that play with them; like I said, this is the tightest band they've ever gone out with, and each show I've seen since 06 has been markedly better than the last, culminating in my favorite Dan show of all time (internet request night at the Wang last summer).
What I do mean to say is they're no longer touring with band leaders, or guys that have carved out a living composing revolutionary music and having a really unique and fully developed harmonic vocabulary. Weiskopf, Beard, Carlock and Herrington do a really incredible job distilling the essence of the original solo while adding some new touches to keep it fresh. Wayne Krantz and Chris Potter never did that -- they played in their own style, all the time.
I don't think one way is necessarily better than the other, although one is clearly more crowd pleasing.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 10:57:40 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
"everybody always cites the same sources for their jazz inspirations: Miles, Coltrane, Evans, Monk, etc."
I can tell you're fond of making generalizations, but you brought up Trane and Evans, not me. And there are reasons for those, too, being the way they were/are. Yet there are musical derivatives, sub-derivatives and their offshoots.
And I don't expect to flip you into heavy Weiskopf petting. I can empathize with your points (below), but I didn't know you were so knowledgeable about smooth jazz.
Regardless, to make the "worst ever" designation is beyond your limited scope.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 10:37:41 ET
Posted by: P-a-t-h-e-t-i-c,
Josey, I can only go by my ears. Can I define what I don't like about his playing? Sure, to an extent. The tonal characteristic of his playing too closely resembles that omnipresent smooth jazz sound EVERYBODY sounds like these days. There's a seeming lack of passion on his part, an inability to excel to the next level, that extra-special creative influx which seperates the big league players from the rest. There's no real nuance, no depth -- he knows how to change modes but not moods -- it's always the same-sounding solos.
ygk, I already figured you'd be so obvious as to try for that seeming contradiction on my part, but there is none. By being stuck in the past, I'm referring to how everybody always cites the same sources for their jazz inspirations: Miles, Coltrane, Evans, Monk, etc.
Nothing you say is going to make me suddenly think otherwise about Weiskopf. He blows.
Again, you prove your idiocy. I never said Evans and co. aren't melodic; I said I don't really care to listen to them. Bit of a difference. Think whatever you want. I don't care.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 10:30:11 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
"I simply refuse to be stuck in the past like so many other people."
"I'd rather listen to 70's Steely Dan."
So there you have it. But you're funny.
No, you're not ignorant for disliking Weiskopf. You're ignorant for stating he's one of the worst saxophonists ever.
To state that you "like melodic content" then in the next breath, insinuate that Trane or Evans aren't melodic is a contradition in terms.
IF you don't like them because you don't like the sound of jazz or whatever, that's another thing entirely.
But the point is one might not make generalized statements about "worst ever" when one doesn't understand the continuum, of which Weiskopf is apart.
Don't like it? fine.
Dismiss it by making categorical generalizations? Just out of your league.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 10:15:13 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons Island
pathetic -
Might it be fair to say Weiskopf's style doesn't appeal to you - as opposed to saying he's a "horrible sax player"? If, in your opinion, he really is a "horrible" saxaphonist, what, in your expertise, do you base that on? Can you define for us - specifically! - what it is that makes him horrible? If it's simply a matter of his style not appealing to you, then that's a whole different thing and I'm sure everyone else would willingly accept that.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 10:12:13 ET
Posted by: Path-e-tic,
Once again, you don't know what I spend my time listening to. You're assuming that, because I don't particularly care for old jazz, I have an immature understanding of the medium which, again, is more an assumption than anything. I simply refuse to be stuck in the past like so many other people.
You're right in that I don't know what's in the heads of Don & Walt, no, but I can make a reasonable assumption that, given the choice between guys like Wayne Shorter and Walt Weiskopf, they'd choose the former in a heartbeat.
I'm ignorant for not liking Weiskopf's brand of noodling. Go figure.
I don't know what I'm talking about, hm? Where did I say that I don't understand Coltrane? I said I don't particularly care for his music. Once again, you don't know what I listen to. Hey, what's this sitting here? Oh, it's my DVD of the Bill Evans Trio. Given the choice, I'd rather listen to 70's Steely Dan, but that's just me.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 10:01:50 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
Pathetic: You seem to project an inner knowledge of the workings and the minds of Donald & Walter, which is a big mistake in any regard, for any set of songwriter(s).
Your line, "do you honestly think he'd even be in the running, let alone make the cut? If you do, you're lying to yourself."
How do YOU know? You don't. I don't. No one does except Donald & Walter. And your lack of sophistication in understanding and at least appreciating jazz doesn't bolster your argument one bit.
Ok, so WW doesn't blow your dress up. But to make a statement that he's one of the worst saxophonists ever is a complete statement of Ignorance.
You don't know what you're talking about.
You said, "I like nice melodic content and well structured changes", and yet, you don't like or understand John Coltrane.
Again, you like melodic content, yet you don't listen to Bill Evans. You're so contradictory you haven't a clue.
Go get one.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 09:35:15 ET
Posted by: Path-e-tic,
Just because someone says that I don't listen to jazz and am "unknowledgeable" doesn't mean anything to me. I don't need to prove that I love jazz and "know what I'm talking about."
As far as this being the tightest SD band ever, well, that's your opinion, just as it's mine that Weiskopf is a horrible saxophonist. What I don't understand is, why take it so personally? You'd think that people here have some sort of personal stake in the guy's reputation.
Don & Walt aren't the anal perfectionists that they once were. If we werre to transpose Weiskopf back to the late 70's, do you honestly think he'd even be in the running, let alone make the cut? If you do, you're lying to yourself. That was a time when great players were monsters, when the quality of the performance was as important as the music itself.
Having Weiskopf in the "group" cheapens the atmosphere. Now all they do is recycle the same people over and over again on their albums and it shows. It's Steely Lite minus the great aftertaste. Maybe they just want money after all.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 09:10:49 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
The Dean:
I suspect that your recent "pre post" post was derived - albeit subconsciously - from an earlier unformulated and unposted post/pre post.
I'm right aren't I? ;-)
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 09:03:54 ET
Posted by: My Guess, US
Hutch,
I run through the songs in my head and determine which one I have the hardest time differentiating from the song in question. I'm not a musician at all.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 08:36:52 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
My guess - I have a question for you. Exactly what aspects of Countermoon make you think that Jack of Speed was "derived" from it?
Is it the tempo, chord changes, arrangement?
Since you're the one who seems to comes up with the most "correct" answers then I'd like to know your thought process.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 08:26:56 ET
Posted by: My Guess, US
Countermoon
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 07:03:37 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
During an interview after the release of "Two Against Nature" DF was incredulous about how the music biz had changed since it was about 7 years since his last solo release and 20 since his last Dan studio effort. For DF it was like a Rip Van WInkle awakening as he described some young punk record "exec" advising on how to promote the album and that "Jack of Speed" was to be the "focus" tune. At that suggestion, once he got beyond the incredulity, DF perhaps felt a warmth and satisfaction inside that "Jack" was chosen to be the "focus" and was most likely derived, sonically from a tune from the Fagen Solo Discography.
Name that tune.
Difficulty level is prolly about 4.5.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 06:13:28 ET
Posted by: Jeff, San Jose
Walt played a gig with his own band last year out here in NorCal.
Smoking. And he was very generous, signed a cd for my 7 year old on her birthday and talked to us for a while. They didn't even spend the night, came in from Denver and left for the East Coast the same night.
Putting down any decent musician is nasty, but what jerk would rag on WW? Such a genuine, complete player. Must be jealousy from some underachieving lounge act.
I get goosebumps almost every time he solos on EMG. Slang of ages is my favorite.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 05:11:26 ET
Posted by: SS, HK
Tom Hayes....
Thanks for the heads up on the Aja SHM-SACD.
I ordered it straight away. I bought the SHM version last year and described it here some time ago. I think it's better than the MFSL.
I don't know when there will be anything to top an Aja stereo SACD. I'm sure I'll be it though when I find out.
I'm betting Roger Rosenberg is a much better than average baritone player, not that I'm any authority on that instrument or the guys who play it. Very tasty solos in the live shows...and much more than 'getting the job done' imo.
Ah Vancouver...when it's not raining. And even when it is.
Date: Wed, June 30, 2010, 00:38:57 ET
Posted by: CJB, YVR
Airport call letters. YVR = Vancouver, Canada. Sunset. Mixed cloud and sun. Light wind.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 23:46:44 ET
Posted by: where's YVR? left coast?,
Or are they call letters from a radio station, such as WYVR?
The y makes me think of Yorba Linda, San Ysidro or Yreka.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 23:34:19 ET
Posted by: CJB, YVR
Very tasty: "Make Way For Dionne Warwick," 1964, produced by Bacharach and David, inc. DF's fave "In The Land of Make Believe," inexplicably not currently on YouTube but available from all the usual sources. (On YouTube, a nicely voiced but orchestrally far more spare Dusty Springfield version of the same tune). I hear lots of the boys here, even (and maybe I'm stretching) a bit of "Great Pagoda" here and there, something in the languid pacing, the pad-pad-pad of the drums, little piano flourishes here and there. Lovely!
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 22:46:27 ET
Posted by: Boz, McDonald's
At some point I shall post my counterpoint to a previously unscrutinized point rendered pointless by those who feel so inclined to point out truly pointless observations they are actually not pointing to at all.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 21:23:21 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
Mr. The Dean: I will see your warning that someone will provide you with information of which you are hitherto ignorant that will provide the best reconciliation to your caveat without so much as realigning your paradigm, and raise you (at least) one redundant post(insert emoticon up my e-yasshole)
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 21:23:07 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
Mr. The Dean: I will see your warning that someone will provide you with information of which you are hitherto ignorant that will provide the best reconciliation to your caveat without so much as realigning your paradigm, and raise you (at least) one redundant post(insert emoticon up my e-yasshole)
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 20:30:49 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
I am going to make a post. It won't be my best post, but it will be a better than average post. It will have to do with Steely Dan.
I will make this post sometime in the next 24 hours. Stay tuned for my post!
(How self-involved does one need to be to post about a post they are going to make at a later time?)
:#)
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 20:25:15 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,
After a the recent series of "Hemorrhager" type questions, we're now going to dial down the difficulty level to below 7.5 out of 10, which moves us down from a "Hemorrhager" to a "Strainer" type of question. You know, to expand the universe of individuals who have a chance to choose the "best" answer.
This next Strainer will deal with the New Testament, which has been in the Bluebook headlines of late and involve the Fagen Solo Discography. The Strainer will appear within 24 hours, so this is a heads up so maybe you want to give some of that music a spin.
Which is the right thing to do in any case.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 19:20:25 ET
Posted by: Ha, Ha
People can't get out of there fast enough when he starts blowing Last Tango :)
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 18:03:10 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
Whew. You guys were saved from full rant scroll by my 13-year-old. The Grim Reaper has been doing double shifts in these parts lately. Why didn't I run to you all instead of all the ten-for-a-buck frugging? Michael McDonald. Why have him on tour? When his moments come in the show, I'm surrounded by 5,000 of him. Walt of reed. Good thing I'm not sophisticated enough to know how pedestrian he is, or I,d feel bad about my alleyway lurking fawnfests after shows when he is the most approachable and seemingly most appreciative of a ". . .thanks for the show. . . ."
Point being: Mr. McKay, you are the head cook and bottle washer of this joint, and there might be some kind of question about what to do with a perceived excess of funds? Hmmm. Impending anniversaries aside, you wonder what Greater Dandom would want YOU to do with an extra "ride uptown"? Wow. Five hours later and you all feel so much more "perfection and grace" to me. Glad I came.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 18:02:47 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
Whew. You guys were saved from full rant scroll by my 13-year-old. The Grim Reaper has been doing double shifts in these parts lately. Why didn't I run to you all instead of all the ten-for-a-buck frugging? Michael McDonald. Why have him on tour? When his moments come in the show, I'm surrounded by 5,000 of him. Walt of reed. Good thing I'm not sophisticated enough to know how pedestrian he is, or I,d feel bad about my alleyway lurking fawnfests after shows when he is the most approachable and seemingly most appreciative of a ". . .thanks for the show. . . ."
Point being: Mr. McKay, you are the head cook and bottle washer of this joint, and there might be some kind of question about what to do with a perceived excess of funds? Hmmm. Impending anniversaries aside, you wonder what Greater Dandom would want YOU to do with an extra "ride uptown"? Wow. Five hours later and you all feel so much more "perfection and grace" to me. Glad I came.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 17:45:46 ET
Posted by: Some people,
just have too much time on their hands...
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 17:44:30 ET
Posted by: Some people,
just have too much time on their hands...
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 17:40:54 ET
Posted by: shark, one more thing
just find it confounding yet amusing that this guy is blaming Weiskopf for the fact that EMG turned up on the bottom of a list of favorite Dan albums. he's only featured on two songs, correct?
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 16:45:37 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the tower
if you don't like the musicians, don't go to the show...holy cow, shut the fu*k up already.
if they tour, you bitch, if they take time off, you complain...and now some of you are trying to figure out the personal finances of DF, WB, and Hoops.
I've met many great friends here, but, geez, some of the rest of you are real scrote bags...
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 16:42:26 ET
Posted by: Tom Hayes, San Diego, Ca
Aja has been released as a SACD in Japan! Mine is in the mail, it'll probably get here next week.
These are *very limited* editions and might already be sold out. They're around $50 from the Japanese websites. (But those MFSL copies go for lots of money too.)
Pictures: http://bit.ly/agWAYr (A google translated page with lots of photos)
CDJapan : http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=UIGY-9026 (Says ships 3-7 days)
HMV: http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3809465 (Sold Out)
CDbanq: http://www.cdbanq.com/Steely-Dan--Aja-Japan-LTD-SHM-SACD-UIGY-9026_p_19950.html (waiting list)
No one has yet posted how they sound - or what tapes were used - but it might be worth it to a Dan Fan to get one "blind."
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 16:32:21 ET
Posted by: The X Factor, Minneapolis
Yeah, pretty sure that I am worse than Walt Weiskopf at playing the Saxophone, so that by default makes him only the second worst player ever. At worst.
:D
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 16:11:31 ET
Posted by: sdv,
btw... Walt's playing on "Pixeleen" and "Everything Must Go" is perfect... brilliant and memorable. and there's a lot of live clips on youtube with Walt throwing down hard.
as for people like Pathetic, who just don't "get" jazz and feel the need to complain... i actually get a real kick out of it. poor guy.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 16:01:09 ET
Posted by: shark, up on the hill
yeah. to call Weiskopf "the absolute worst saxophonist ever" is just supreme idiocy.
Walt is pretty legendary among modern jazz afficionados. I met a horn player in NYC, a serious jazz student, who considers him the finest player going. He also had absolutely no idea that Walt was playing with Steely Dan.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 13:54:47 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Chris, you make some good points, I think. The current band (at least the band used the last couple of years) is simply fantastic live.
But I would argue that Walt W does far more than simply "get the job done", particularly on the title cut from Everything Must Go. That intro is sublime, IMO.
Having a discussion about various players can be interesting, if that conversation is with someone who is somewhat knowledgeable when it comes to the music. Obviously Pathetic doesn't fit that profile. He admits he doesn't like jazz, or John Coltrane. I wonder how he feels qualified to judge a jazz sax player? He is in WAY over his head, in this discussion.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 12:05:08 ET
Posted by: Denise, Hinktown cubicle
The more I hear, the more I like Pete Christlieb. Thanks for the mention of Apogee, Dean, I will have to give that a listen.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 11:49:21 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Chris:
'Nuff said. ;-)
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 11:44:57 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh
Weiskopf's not my all time favorite Steely Dan soloist, sure. Wayne Shorter's solo on Aja is nothing short of a transcendent, and the man is a living legend. Chris Potter is one of the best active band leaders on the scene today, and his work on TvN is the highlight of the album. I do think Weiskopf falls more in the "gets the job done" category than the "holy fucking shit!" category that guys like Shorter and Potter fall into. With that said, Weiskopf gets the job done with perfection and grace every time.
In fact, with the possible exception of Carlock who is really becoming a star in his own right, the '06-'10 Steely Dan bands are full of guys who "get the job done." And yet, nearly everyone here would agree that the current band is the tightest they've ever toured with. Clearly, they know what they're doing.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 11:04:20 ET
Posted by: Path-etic,
Wrong.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 11:02:15 ET
Posted by: hh, 3
I think path-etic is actually Robert Christgau
http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/cdrev/steely-rs.php
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 10:53:15 ET
Posted by: Path-etic,
Except that I already did.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 10:51:29 ET
Posted by: Nicholas Urfe, Phraxos
Path-etic -
Your rambling writing leaves you little room to complain about a musician's noodling.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 10:37:32 ET
Posted by: Path-etic,
If I'm not mistaken, one of the hallmarks of SD recordings is their penchant for terrific solos. Guys like Wayne Shorter, Larry Carlton, Denny Dias, etc. delivered epic solos; their contributions were tremendous.
Once again, who gives a shit about what Weiskopf has supposedly accomplished? His solos are forgettable, drab and dull. Not a single kickass solo to be heard from him. Period.
People all over are practically unanimous in their decision that EMG is their least-favorite SD recording. It's funny because no matter where I look, nobody mentions what a tremendous soloist Weiskopf is nor do they care about his "accomplishments" except, of course, for here at the SD worshipping shrine.
Somebody started a forum in this forum asking people to list their favorite SD albums. Guess which album sits at the bottom of people's lists far moreso than any other?
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-139648.html
This all reminds me of what a reviewer once said on Amazon, to paraphrase, "Don and Walt could fart in a box and call it an album and the SD heads would call it genius." He's referring to the people here.
No matter how lackluster the effort, anything with even the faintest connotation with the name 'Steely Dan' is regarded as infallible. Whenever somebody doesn't like a certain player and/or performance *GASP!*, and is so brazen as to state their opinion, you need to switch on your attorney suits and rush to said performer's defense. "But just look at the guy's credentials!" So what? There's a good reason why people don't mention Weiskopf when discussing great SD solos and that's because his solos are BORING.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 08:51:29 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Pathetic,
Not a Coltrane fan? Why should we bother with your nonsense, then? You admit to being thoroughly clueless regarding fine jazz sax playing.
'Nuff said, really.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 08:50:20 ET
Posted by: Dave, NJ
The Borgata website is showing the Dukes date "with Booker T. Jones." He's apparently opening the Red Rocks show and perhaps others.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 08:39:12 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
So Walt joined Buddy Rich's band at the age of twenty-one.
He must have been doing something right if he survived this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8-uoTD4fMQ
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 08:32:12 ET
Posted by: path-etique,
"did you know that Weiskopf was hired by Buddy Rich, published by Jamey Aebersold, and is also a celebrated chamber musician?"
Should I care who's publishing his work? So what if he's a chamber musician? That doesn't change my discontent with his snore-inducing noodling.
"and let me guess. not a big Coltrane fan are you? not really a be-bopper per se???"
No, I'm not. Most jazz music turns me off. I usually like stuff with nice melodic content and well-structured changes. Just because a musician has X-level of chops doesn't mean much to me. Bill Evans is a great pianist but I don't often find myself listening to him.
"to each their own, if you don't care for his playing that's fine. but for you to come on the Dan board and call someone as accomplished and revered as Weiskopf "lousy", "soulless", and "low budget"...
just. wow."
In comparison to earlier SD sax soloists, his work doesn't stack up. Maybe I am biased towards that 70's style of play. I can hear a clear difference between Weiskopf's tonal characteristics and 'insert any previous SD saxophonist here'. It's just too abrasive for my ears and the melodic construction of his solos doesn't have an endearing quality that sticks.
Take that as you will. I'm one opinion in a sea of opposition. Then again, I've also heard people here call EMG SD's best work.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 08:29:06 ET
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Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 02:40:35 ET
Posted by: sdv, the flipside
truly pathetic, you are truly clueless.
did you know that Weiskopf was hired by Buddy Rich, published by Jamey Aebersold, and is also a celebrated chamber musician?
probably not...
and let me guess. not a big Coltrane fan are you? not really a be-bopper per se???
to each their own, if you don't care for his playing that's fine. but for you to come on the Dan board and call someone as accomplished and revered as Weiskopf "lousy", "soulless", and "low budget"...
just. wow.
Date: Tues, June 29, 2010, 00:03:06 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Anyone else convinced Walt W stole pathetic's girl?
Keep workin' on that "novel". Pathetic, indeed.
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 23:52:19 ET
Posted by: mcCrystal lite, quagmire
there is a great grey-area cd around where someone edited the bass solo in rapunzel - much better.
(solo is good but didn't fit)
buncha good songs on that cd!
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 23:39:14 ET
Posted by: Girl Margaret, Ossining
Milo - I never recall saying ANY band was as good as/better than SD. SD is SD and there's nothing finer or better, but that doesn't mean that a night out listening to a tribute band can't be quite enjoyable.
As for my opinion, it's mine and at times mine alone. I was just chiming in on the conversation, not trying to convert anyone to Michael McDonald fandom. Can't we all just get along?
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 23:17:17 ET
Posted by: Truly pathetic,
As is par for the course, the usual blowhards here go on a personal crusade to try and defend a lousy musician just because of his association with a certain group. First of all, I don't give a shit about Kenny G but what does that have to do with Steely Dan? Beats me. He's never played with them. There are a lot of lousy saxophonists out there, Weiskopf included, but there are also some truly great players as previous SD albums have proven. I assume that, because SD aren't getting the kind of financial backing that they enjoyed in the 70's, they need to work within a more limited budget and that more than anything else accounts for Weiskopf's constant appearances. Too busy for my ears? You mean "too much senseless, unmemorable noodling." I guarantee you that if they had a bigger budget, i.e. more choice, he'd be gone in a heartbeat.
There's something to be said about a place that craps on Michael McDonald and praises Walt Weiskopf in the same breath.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to work on my novel.
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 21:14:35 ET
Posted by: sdv, on the turntable
Apogee is a great album. It's also worth noting that "Rapunzel" is based on Burt Bacharach's "In the Land of Make Believe", a tune which Donald has called one song he wishes he'd written. The original arrangement with Dionne Warwick features some very asian-sounding strings that he probably loves. Bogus oriental at its finest.
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 19:33:34 ET
Posted by: Milo,
Girl Margaret- No offense, but we can't really trust your opinion on anything Steely Dan. I heard that you said that SD cover band in Connecticut was just as good as SD if not better. That was a joke, right?
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 15:59:07 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour
Most, if not all, who post and lurk here are aware of the terrific album Pete Christlieb & Warne Marsh, "Apogee":
http://www.broberg.pp.se/apogee.htm
Of course, it was produced by Walter Becker and Donald Fagen. It includes a terrific Becker/Fagen composition, Rapunzel (find it here):
http://www.broberg.pp.se/sd_sound.htm
It has some really great blowing, IMO. Back around 1980, I did some volunteer shifts at WBFO (SUNY @Buffalo) a real nice public radio/jazz station at the time. I mostly just produced PSA's and loaded tapes of recorded syndicated shows. But sometimes there would be small (15-second to 2 minute) dark periods that needed to be filled. So I picked a few albums (whatever I wanted, really) to cue up in case of a needed fill. Apogee is an album that saw a lot of time on my turntable. That may be the only airplay it ever got/gets. :@)
(No, seriously, I have heard Rapunzel a time or two on the radio.)
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 15:43:00 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
tx, SDV, of course...
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 15:01:18 ET
Posted by: SDV, p.s.
that's Pete Christlieb on FM... same as Deacon Blues.
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 14:59:18 ET
Posted by: Shark DeVille, the pagoda
regardless of anyone's opinion of Michael McDonald, he and Donald are great friends who go way back and probably really enjoy eachother's company. I think that is the main reason these guys team up.
and regardless of anyone's opinion of Walt Weiskopf, the man can seriously blow. Too busy for you? Tough shit. I trust Don & Walt. And my own ears.
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 14:43:49 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
ouch! my bad, WOH was Potter...
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 14:42:02 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
Thanx for that save of my mini ramble. I'm not particularly a fan of Weiskopf due in part to WOH, which is not one of my faves...*cough* "toolong" *cough*
Now, speaking of Positive Dan-saxaphonists, who was the player on FM? I forget...
I saw a sweet jazz quartet last night who covered a nice Keith Jarrett tune, sans keyboardist. And there were no wailings. ;-) NICE!
For you Metheny Heads, here's a nice article putting Kenny G in perspective...
http://www.jazzoasis.com/methenyonkennyg.htm
ygk
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Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 13:41:19 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
YGk,
It is pathetic. Walt is a fine sax player. One of two losers here have some sort of feud with him, it seems. It isn't enough to say Walt isn't their favorite SD sax player, they have to insult him and call him the worst. As you not, that is preposterous.
Kenny G is certainly soulless, IMO (he sounded OK with the Rippentons early in his career), but he isn't the worst, IMO. I saw him in concert once (free of course) and while it is totally unmemorable, it wasn't horrible, believe it or not. Not my cup-o-tea, to be sure.
On the other hand, Clarence Clemmons was absolutely horrible in concert with his own band, many years ago. As bad, or worse, was Richard Elliot, who I always like with Tower of Power.
Unlike Kenny G, Walt W isn't a creation of some recording industry exec. He is a well-trained musician who has played with some of the best in the biz. You don't get to that level by being the "worst".
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 12:37:26 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
Pathetic: What a pathetic Worst of! the worst saxaphonist is - by far - Kenny G, without question. Thanks Clive!
Glad to hear that you know your way around the music biz - can't wait to read your book.
Doh! So it was just writing good music and having market penetration! That's it! wow, never knew...
Next up, someone will start explaining the merits of Kanye West! Why isn't he on tour with Donald?
--ygk
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 12:14:15 ET
Posted by: Girl Margaret, Ossining, NY
Personally, I always thought MM complemented SD very nicely. I was a fan of his work - solo and with The Doobies (but mostly Doobies) - long before I was a Danfan. I even had the pleasure of seeing him when he toured with Hall and Oates and AWB - now that was quite a lineup! I was super stoked when I heard he was touring with SD four years ago, although in many cases I seemed to be the most excited of my group to go in and see his set. As for Jones Beach, I sat out in the parking lot during his set in '06, but mainly because Lady Bayside was throwing a helluva shinding and I saw Mike's opening set about six times already that summer. And the sound carried over the water and into the parking lot, so I could hear him pretty perfectly anyway. Like nice, live background music at a groovy party. I can understand that MM is not everybody's cup of tea (neither is SD), but I personally can't see him as the top biller/money maker for these concerts. If that were the case, SD would have opened for him, and DF would be at the bottom of the Dukes bill. Since I was too young for NYRSR in it's heyday, I'm really looking forward to see The Dukes this fall!
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 11:56:57 ET
Posted by: How pathetic,
It's ironic that people here mock Michael McDonald yet have no problem with the absolute worst, most soulless saxophonist ever, Walt Weiskopf. Can Donald possibly say "working on a tight budget" any louder than by hiring this guy?
Oh, and yeah, you CAN make money off albums today. It's a question of writing good music and market penetration, thinks which people have forgotten how to do (or never knew in the first place). Not having your hands tied to a major label also comes in handy as they're usually pocketing 90%(+) of the cut.
Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 04:06:37 ET
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Date: Mon, June 28, 2010, 03:45:14 ET
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Date: Sun, June 27, 2010, 22:35:38 ET
Posted by: bs, 3
Description the Kamakiriad recording process. It may explain why some feel the vocals were too low in the mix.
http://tinyurl.com/2f4gt73
Date: Sun, June 27, 2010, 22:02:15 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu
Oh I don't know Dean, both
Don & Walt can be very
"condescending" when they
want to be ;O)
Date: Sun, June 27, 2010, 18:50:43 ET
Posted by: Jeff F,
Glad to hear Hoops is getting more money to run this website. But he needs really to take care of himself. How he got this way with no personal savings at his age and with the money he has made is perplexing. It is something he needs to change, and as an intelligent person he must. Next time he will look out more for hisself and save a larger share of what he makes so he can support himself in old age. If it came to a choice of losing this website or Hoops not eating or becoming homeless, well website be damned!@
Regarding MM he is being brought in to make money as Huh says. Which is key or else you couuld end up like Hoops :)
Date: Sun, June 27, 2010, 18:09:38 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. Shots anyone?
Actually Ray, I really doubt Don and Walt are "your typical condescending left wing liberals". They are intelligent and thinking Liberals/Progressives, IMO.
I find most typical "Liberals" and "Conservatives" too freaking stupid to engage in intelligent political discourse.
When I live in SF (which I LOVE and miss everyday) I tired of the standard knee-jerk crunchy granola Liberal clap-trap. Now, living in the South, I am regularly offended, and downright scared, of the numb-nutted right wing-nut stupidity.
Date: Sun, June 27, 2010, 17:48:48 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu
I have an unfortunate news flash
for you Anon. Both Don & Walt
are both "your typical condescending
left wing liberals".
Why not take this opportunity to listen
to "Fall of '92" this afternoon and
feel the burn.
I wonder if Jeff Christie ever had
to play Steely Dan music back in the day?
That must of killed him.
Date: Sun, June 27, 2010, 17:18:37 ET
Posted by: Anon,
Huh? sounds like your typical condescending left wing liberal. Barack called- they want their idiot back.
Date: Sun, June 27, 2010, 16:45:01 ET
Posted by: Huh?, What A Putz!
Christopher Street Candy wrote:
"Where was he during the 2000, 2003 and Donald Fagen band tours???"
Are you serious? What an uninformed idiot you must be. Did you finish grade school? Mikey was doing HIS OWN tours in 2000 & 2003.
Let's see cromag, do you grasp the concept of how much it WOULD COST
to hire Mike as a player/back-up singer for a complete Steely Dan tour? Which brings us to the solo work of Donald Fagen. Are you familiar with it? Mikey is hardly a "driving vocal force" like he is on many Steely Dan records. But let's break it down into financial terms to make it easier for you unibrow, you know, "One rock, good..
..two rock better...Donald barely broke even on his solo tour, he even had to trim the usual band size. Even if he wanted to hire Mikey as a player/back-up singer for the tour, there is no way he could have afforded him versus let's say a "Jeff Young".
CSC also wrote:
"Mike Mc D is there now to SELL TICKET$$$$$$$$!!!!"
Um.....Yes. Let's break it down again for you Jethro. THIS IS NOT A STEELY DAN OR A DONLAD FAGEN SOLO TOUR. It's what they call in the business, a "Revue". Motown used to do them all the time. Are you familiar with Motown. Probably not, because those "people" scare you right? Any way, it's gong to be three guys in this "Revue", Donald, Mikey & Boz all doing some of their favorite tunes. And rest assured,
they are all there now to SELL TICKET$! Cuz if they don't sell tickets, they don't get any money and the kin folk will go hungry.
You see, you can't make any $$$$ from selling records anymore. You have to tour to put some money into the old mason jar. Speaking of mason jars, it's probably time that you run back to the hollar and check on the still to make sure that the Revenue Man ain't fixin to
bust it up. And please, don't confuse "Revue" with "Revenue", as they are two "different" words. But YES, this "Revue" is out to make "Revenue". I know, now I have really confused you.
Date: Sun, June 27, 2010, 14:12:44 ET
Posted by: HouDanFan, Houston
The McDan tour was my least fav Dan show over the years. But I do like McDonald. His back up vocals are in my opinion his best work be it with Dan/Cross or whomever and he did bring a different sound to the Doobies that I really liked at the time. I can do without his solo and motown stuff. I did hear him live with the Doobies a few years ago and it was a great show.
Date: Sun, June 27, 2010, 13:57:26 ET
Posted by: A. Fool, But I ain't believin', and I ain't forgettin',
Mike Mc D was not a major element of the SD sound. If he was , where was he during the 2000, 2003 and Donald Fagen band tours???
No, Mike Mc D is there now to SELL TICKET$$$$$$$$!!!!
Mike appeals to the least common denominator and a section of the market that Don or SD can't capture which are the cheese loving un-cool people with money to spend.
And admit it all of you a-holes defending Mike M you are just trying to do it, to defend against anyone that is not pro SD for whatever they do or say. If SD brought in Britney Spears onto the bill to sell tickets you would say her music was good. And you would never be caught dead having someone even think that you were into Mike M. Because it is not cool to be into him, but it is cool to be into SD.
Date: Sun, June 27, 2010, 11:58:36 ET
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Date: Sun, June 27, 2010, 08:12:52 ET
Posted by: Inspector Gadget,
I wish I was from Poland.
Date: Sun, June 27, 2010, 04:58:53 ET
Posted by: Ann (Wild Dann of Borneo), The beautiful Island of Borneo
Vaguely Dangential......
Just noticed the Fagen, etc tour is taking-in Las Vegas in October....
Those of you going might like to widen your cultural experience by seeing the Cirque du Soleil's Zumanity show. One of the prime performers is a product of this fair isle (and I work with her mum) ..... and after watching her on Youtube, I have to concede my title of Wild Woman of Borneo to the much younger contender! She is, of course, the World Champion Pole Dancer, Felix Cane (very much a stage name of course!). She's a classically trained ballet dancer who grew too "big" for ballet. She's art on a pole:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBCTxAw9B0E&feature=related
(WARNING: NOT RECOMMENDED for any guy with a heart condition!)
Peace!
Date: Sun, June 27, 2010, 04:19:45 ET
Posted by: Shark DeVille, above the city
i seriously doubt that Knopfler considers "Time Out of Mind" the pinnacle of his career. I don't think he was totally happy with the finished product and his talents were wasted to some degree i think. he described a weird scene in the studio too i seem to recall...
I think McDonald considers his harmonies on Peg the pinnacle of his career, or at least of his work with Steely Dan.
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 23:05:09 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Funny stuff, Skippy.
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 20:45:05 ET
Posted by: Skip, 2
Time out of Mind was as much a showcase for Mike M's talents as it was for those of Mark Knopfler. Both men consider it the pinnacle of their respective careers.
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 18:51:40 ET
Posted by: addendum,
This is It is mostly Loggins, about his dad's fight with cancer...the bridge with MM (his turn to write the bridge) is perfect. I like it better than Fool, which sounds more lightweight.
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 18:48:58 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
Oh, I know. Loggins wrote the bridge
"As she rises to her apology, anybody else would surely now, he's watching her go..Popular, but I prefer the title track. MM was a real find for the 1974 tour - he did a mean stoptime for Pretzel Logic...
Besides the classic Peg microtight harmonies, I dig his work on Black Friday, Bad Sneakers, Any World, and Rose Darlin.
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 17:17:17 ET
Posted by: Brutus Charisma,
RE Mikey Mc D.: Right on Lurker Raymond!
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 17:08:39 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu
Doc,
Let's not forget that Mike wrote
"What a Fool Believes" with Kenny
Loggins and the two also wrote,
"This Is It" together.
I also don't get the McD bashing.
Let's face it, without Mike, there
would be no "Steely Dan Sound" or
the major success of the band and
the platinum sales 1974 through 1980.
"Peg" would be "Peg-legged" without
him.
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 15:56:54 ET
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Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 14:33:39 ET
Posted by: angel, LA
I enjoyed the opening set with Mike back in '06. I was with Snakehips and her Hubby at DTE Energy Theater (Used to be Pine Knob). Very nice venue and the McMike fans were really going at it. I wasn't as into it as them, but it did OK by me. Loved Mike when he sat in with Steely Dan. An incredibly cool version of Do It Again was played.
To the person who can't hear Mike on Peg, I suggest you get Making Aja on DVD. You will then know it all. :-)
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 13:16:01 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu ,
I agree with The Dean in that MM excels as a backup singer, something W&D greatly appreciated. However, for about 4-5 years MM could write a decent R&B pop song before the well ran dry. A lot more earnest stuff that the acerbic Dan discography. Often soulful, sometimes saccharin to cloying, but honestly written. After Minute by Minute and What a Fool Believes (one of my least fav MM songs), he got a bit overexposed, particularly collaborating with Kenny Loggins (although This is It is IMO a very good song) ...inviting the Yacht Rock backlash. Still there are a number of non-hit gems.
While not quite as good as contemporary Boz Scaggs with Toto as his back-up band...but it's no surprise DF, MM, and Boz are back together for a tour tethered by history and common R&B influences.
I would still be proud to have been the author of these tunes:
Takin' it to the Streets
Losin' End
It Keeps you Runnin'
Nothin' But a Heartache
There's a Light
You're Made that Way
How do the Fools Survive?
Open Your Eyes
Minute by Minute
Real Love
You Belong to Me (The Doob version is far more stalking/creepy)
I Keep Forgettin' with Jerry Lieber is not so bad either.
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 11:15:55 ET
Posted by: Book Search, bs
For the yacht rock fans, here's the back story to What a Feel Believes.
http://tinyurl.com/2d6lpre
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 10:49:38 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
I also thought Mike's set opening for SD was pretty good. Now I understand that many decided to skip it and stayed partying in the parking lot. Fine. I think the real question is, what did they do when Mike got on stage with SD? Did they leave? Did they enjoy it, even though Mike was onstage?
IMO, Mike is best as a complementary player/backup singer, rather than as the leader/main singer. It is the role he filled so very well with Steely Dan, and other bands.
As a leader he can be a little overbearing, again IMO. I really like the Doobie Brothers before Mike (and Skunk) joined the band. I really didn't like the direction the band took once Mike was in charge. They had a couple of decent songs, but they really didn't sound like Doobie Brothers songs.
As for the upcoming Dukes tour, Mike should fit in nicely. He won't be the major focus, nor will the set be flush with cheesy MM songs. He will mostly be a complementary player and will sing the occasional lead. It worked pretty well with the Rock and Soul review, and I suspect it will work well again.
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 08:46:51 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
"His voice though not that bad grates on many people."
You know who else's voice grates on many people?
Donald Fagen!
I've had more than one person tell me they like SD music but can't get past DF's voice.
Oh well.
I got no problem with Mike and I enjoyed his set at the McDan show. Especially the extended Rhoades intro to Takin' it to the Streets.
That clip was a bit cheesy and the key should have been dropped a step, but he managed to stay in pitch for the most part. Straining his ass off though! I thought he was gonna bust a blood vessel.
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 01:42:52 ET
Posted by: Mike, McCheese
I remember at the Jones Beach Danfest in '06 everyone chose to hang out in the parking lot during Michael McDonald's set.
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 01:24:15 ET
Posted by: Cover Version, IGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op5SI6KV9so
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 01:14:14 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
This may have already been posted, so apologies in advance if it has.
Fellow Danites and lovers of all good music may want to check out the following site:
http://listen.grooveshark.com/
It's FREE
I think it is better than Pandora as you can choose the songs you want to hear. I break Pandora all the time as it really doesn't understand my musical taste.
Here's some available Dan:
http://listen.grooveshark.com/#/search/songs/?query=steely%20dan
They have an Android app (for about $10 a month I think)/
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 01:10:17 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
I don't really like defending McDonald, but let's get a couple of facts straight:
He was a backup vocalist AND keyboard player with SD.
And if you only hear Mike faintly on the outro of Peg, you need to get your ears checked.
Date: Sat, June 26, 2010, 00:39:11 ET
Posted by: ok, here's the deal,
Here are the issues with Mc Mike
His voice though not that bad grates on many people
He was a minor player with the Dan, a backup vocalist who added little. Only after many years did I realize he was on the Katy Lied album and can be heard faintly on the outro to Peg.
he is no more significant a contributor than any of the black female background singers used by the Dan and probably less so because THEY can be heard, and are key to the Dan sound.
He is cheesy, along the order of Michael Bolton, Kenny Loggins, Richard Marx etc. He appeals to a demographic that would not also be into the Dan. Like putting Lawrence Welk in with Led Zeppelin,
Mc Mike has done very little original work and should not be on the same stage with the Dan, or Don for that matter and is vibe-killer like Martha Wainwright.
Otherwise, he seems like a decent enough guy, he should pander to his own fanbase and can do OK on his own rather than adulterate a Dan or Don performance.
Date: Fri, June 25, 2010, 23:35:10 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh
McMike's easy to mock, and I'm not worried about hurting his feelings. No vitriol intended; I really dig that song, but that performance is more than a little funny and I thought you all might enjoy it.
Date: Fri, June 25, 2010, 20:50:03 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Michael wasn't a member of Little Feat, but was singing backup on Waiting For Columbus (notably on Red Streamliner) and on Hoy-Hoy!
I am not sure if he has been on any of the many post-Lowell albums (except for Hoy-Hoy, which was released post George but mostly recorded with him, I think.)
Date: Fri, June 25, 2010, 18:08:23 ET
Posted by: Nicholas Urfe, Phraxos
The Dean -
Yeah, darn cheesy. American Bandstand-ish.
I was unaware of the Little Feat connection. Was that after Lowell George died?
Date: Fri, June 25, 2010, 17:17:28 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. Shots anyone?
I also should have mentioned McDonald's work with Little Feat.
Steely Dan and Little Feat, it doesn't get much better than that.
Date: Fri, June 25, 2010, 17:08:21 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour
I hear ya' Nicholas.
I confess I had a little fun mocking Mike way back when (the Yah Mo B There days), but I've always respected what he did with The Dan. His stint with the Rock and Soul review was pretty good as was his band's performance when opening for SD in '06.
Some here really do seem to despise MM, but I think may have been having a bit of fun with the entire situation in that vid. You have to admit it did all seem a bit cheesy. As for MM's voice in that vid, well I have seen/heard some Youtube vids where Donald didn't sound all that in tune, too. I'll give the guy a pass on the vocals (which really weren't THAT bad). But the pretend playing was a bit odd, dontcha think?
Date: Fri, June 25, 2010, 16:05:13 ET
Posted by: Nicholas Urfe, Phraxos
I don't get all of the disrespect, if not vitriol, for Michael McDonald here on the Blue. He sang/played/toured with SD in the old days, he was part of the NYR&S Revue, they let the guy tour with them a few years ago - and let him join them on stage for a few numbers, and now Donald is teaming up with him again. Maybe he's not your cup of tea. He's certainly no Becker of Fagen. But he's done enough to earn the respect of the likes of us denizens of the Blue.
Date: Fri, June 25, 2010, 14:01:59 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago
Many thanks for the generous show of financial support for the Blue and Dandom.com and on top of that some really great suggestions.
I'm truly speechless...
There was one post where someone raised an eyebrow about my request for some financial support for the site. I won't debate the "highly paid professor" part of that post--"highly paid" is very relative. From the perspective of the job market, I don't think I was, far from it; from the perspective of the guy who delivers the newspaper on our block, very much so. But what trumps all that is just that I feel pretty grateful to have what I have.
What is germane to all this is the purpose of the funds. As I've said, right now, I can't pay for the site. Part of that problem is indeed ME. Back ten years ago or so, it made sense to use a certain website provider for the current site. It's way overpriced by today's standards, but until being laid off, I have been too overwhelmed to switch to something more reasonable. Recommendations have been made privately and I am very grateful for that.
In the mean time, I've simply requested that people cover the expense I can't afford until I can switch us to much more affordable digs in the next 7-8 weeks. I'm not asking for a salary since this is a labor of love that is priceless. Strictly requesting "Rent Money," for the time being. In case there are funds in excess of server costs, then I will contact donors asking how we should handle the unused funds.
Many thanks and best wishes,
Jim
Date: Fri, June 25, 2010, 13:10:04 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh
Good thing McMike has Fagen's coattails to ride this summer ... left to his own devices, he'd be stuck playing public access studios, barely managing to sing along to karaoke versions of his own tunes ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiU5fZUD3UU&feature=related
(gotta love the midi bass & drums, invisible organist, and the perfectly auto tuned backup choir)
Date: Fri, June 25, 2010, 12:52:23 ET
Posted by: The X Factor, Minneapolis
BTW, if you're on FB and interested in joining (and haven't already), here's the link:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=2204626182&ref=ts
Date: Fri, June 25, 2010, 12:50:55 ET
Posted by: The X Factor, Minneapolis
I just put a link to the Blue on the Steely Dan Facebook group that I run (16,228 members strong!) As I have just learned of this wonderful website, hopefully I can shepherd other Danfans into the fold :)
Date: Fri, June 25, 2010, 09:43:38 ET
Posted by: George, in Paris
Barely Dangential because it involves a distinctive voice, a few cyrptic lyrics, and the fact that Keith Carlock has drummed for Sting:
If you get the chance to see the Police concert currently running on PBS, it is worth the time to watch.
Date: Fri, June 25, 2010, 08:31:23 ET
Posted by: Fagen, Leonhart ... and Scheiner, at Stratosphere Sound Studio
Proof that the widely circulated Reuter article from a few days ago was telling the truth when it said Donald is recording at Michael Leonhart's home (Michael also producing) with some overdubs done at Stratosphere Sound Studio in New York.
Here's a photo posted on said studio's Facebook page:
http://bit.ly/aFlgMR
And that photo (posted June 4) adds a couple of names to the list of people involved in the album:
Photo caption:
Yesterday in Studio A: Steely Dan's Donald Fagen with awesome producer/engineer Elliot Scheiner. Pictured below L-R: Asst Engineer Adam Tilzer, Donald, Elliot and bassist Michael Leonhart.
+
On the stratospheresound.com homepage the news section says:
"*Steely Dan's DONALD FAGEN worked on overdubs in Studio A with producer/engineer ELLIOT SCHEINER."
Date: Thurs, June 24, 2010, 22:47:55 ET
Posted by: Updraught, Exton
Thanks Dave!
Date: Thurs, June 24, 2010, 18:20:38 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour
Thanks so much for that Josie cover by what appears to be high school kids. They really do a very fine job.
And the Rolling Stone article makes me VERY happy. Other than the misspelling of AJA and the fact that it looks as though Don's album won't come out this year, it's all good.
Date: Thurs, June 24, 2010, 15:59:35 ET
Posted by: RS, Story
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/17386/118245
Date: Thurs, June 24, 2010, 14:18:42 ET
Posted by: vudutu, Cincinnasti
Being the whacked danfan I am I have been watching the ticket sales date creep up for the Dukes in Cincinnasti and noticed the private presales, anyone know where/how to obtain access or anything about it?
thanks
Vudutu
http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/160044C9DD185392
Onsale to General Public
Start: Sat, 06/26/10 10:00 AM EDT
Private Presale
Start: Fri, 06/25/10 10:00 AM EDT End: Fri, 06/25/10 10:00 PM EDT
Radio Presale
Start: Fri, 06/25/10 10:00 AM EDT End: Fri, 06/25/10 10:00 PM EDT
Date: Thurs, June 24, 2010, 10:39:04 ET
Posted by: Spellingly yours,,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmNFPj-iK3k
And just to be able to correct that previous posts "are" to "is; here's a short Dirty Work-clip from the Sopranos I hadn't seen before today. Not that surprising since I didn't follow that show when it was on.
Date: Thurs, June 24, 2010, 10:34:03 ET
Posted by: Hey parents, , look what the kids are up to...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZmcKqiSuVM" (Look out for a weird cut at 4:03)
"Josie". A cover of a song originally by a band that was big in the 1970's. Some say still are.
Date: Thurs, June 24, 2010, 09:12:59 ET
Posted by: Dave, NJ
I called Borgata. Tickets go on sale July 3rd 10am.
Date: Wed, June 23, 2010, 21:28:41 ET
Posted by: Dukes, VIP Package
http://www.iloveallaccess.com/checkpass.php?iArtistId=113
Date: Wed, June 23, 2010, 20:22:36 ET
Posted by: Dugan, This Dirty City
Hey GirlMargaret,
Do me a solid and go out to your Dan network and see if anyone can scare me up a hi-rez picture of Don and Walt in the hotel room, you know, the same one that's inside the gatefold of the Greatest Hits LP. I got to have it, as they man says. I asked the Blue a coupla weeks ago but of course they ignored me. I assume however that you are capable of far greater traction given your ample assets and bubbly whatever. And really, dollface, see you at PNC-I'll be in the front row. Til then, send a kiss to your roommate and tell her she's a fine-ass woman. Yours in sin,
Dugan
Date: Wed, June 23, 2010, 11:14:09 ET
Posted by: Gina, out for lunch
I once had a boyfriend named Buzz...
Date: Wed, June 23, 2010, 05:36:52 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
CerpinTaxt
Through With Buzz is all about coke if you're into coke. If not, it's about Buzz. But then again, if you're into coke, everything is usually all about coke.
For a copy of the old Fever Dreams site, visit:
http://web.archive.org/web/20071020052110re_/cordmeyer.spymac.com/
Personally I prefer calfskin now, and I'm so through with buff.
Date: Wed, June 23, 2010, 05:27:47 ET
Posted by: Well, Nothing is
Sacred Here.
Date: Wed, June 23, 2010, 04:27:39 ET
Posted by: Scouser, Home
Hello one and all!
Raj.I'll see you in my dreams mate.
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 23:50:57 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo
......or even the Wild Dann of Borneo!! :-)
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 23:38:55 ET
Posted by: SS, Preppin' for Sam Steele Days
That's the spirit, CerpinTaxt. The artists always suggest it's all there to be interpreted.
Hey Ann, it could be The Wild (M)Ann of Borneo, right ?
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 22:53:47 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston!
Through With Buzz.
It's totally about coke.
I don't care what anyone says. Even Don or Walt.
And we gotta get that Fever Dreams site back.
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 22:34:29 ET
Posted by: Cousin Dupree, single handedly RUINED
2 Against Nature, and you all know it!
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 22:29:50 ET
Posted by: Cousin Dupree, Single Handedly Ruined
2 Against Nature for me.
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 16:10:34 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh
haha, good point Hank!
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 15:22:48 ET
Posted by: Hank, NYC
Chris- I need to get out more? Dude, you live in freaking New Hampshire!
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 12:56:41 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh
Presumably, the kid would know its fake. I think it's very funny, although I wasn't familiar with the "shred" meme. Fagen's vocals are the best part. I stand by the assertion that if you're offended, you need to get out more. :)
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 12:47:21 ET
Posted by: Hank,
Hutch- I absolutely hate that SD shredding video! Man is that sacrilegious! And what happens when some young kid who was told to check out SD and this is the first video he sees of them? Not funny.
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 12:46:23 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo
Hey! Thanks Mr Pepper!
Remember you from Manassas Aug '06! What a Steely night that was! My first time to see SD in 32 years! Forever in my memory!
Peace!
Ann (aka Wild Woman of Borneo)
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 12:13:38 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
The Dean:
Nor me. ;-)
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 11:37:59 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, OneWay
Dean
A stylistically convincing BH imposter? Yes, that could of course be the case here. Quite disturbing though, to know that we have such special unit agents lurking around? And writes like a marksman, too. Hmm.
Be very very quiet
Clock everything you see
Little things might matter later
At the start of the end of history
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 11:24:20 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Good on ya, Ann!
(Art Pepper)
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 10:59:17 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo
BH:
Just caught up with the Blue and note your comments from a few days ago. Why are you assuming that my comments were about you? They were actually directed at the crassness of Jan H ......unless you and she are one and the same.......
And thanks for the new moniker suggestion! "Wild Man of Borneo" ....mmm..... nice one! Except according to the last time I checked, I think it should be "Wild Woman of Borneo" - the Wild Man being the reason I came here in the first place!
SD to tour Australia??!! Whoo Hoo! Hope they go in via Singapore...or come and sample the delights of Borneo! :-)
Peace!
Ann
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 10:17:35 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
If that really was a BH post, then bravo to Brain for having a sense of humor (which til now seemed quite hidden). But I suspect it was another Blue Book poster having a bit of fun.
And no, for the record, it wasn't me.
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 08:46:41 ET
Posted by: For the Record, US
DF hadn't lived in the vicinity of Hackensack since he was maybe 10. His family moved to the Princeton area in the late 50s.
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 07:12:22 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
Driving like a fool out to Hackenpoke
Laughing my guts out over Brainer's joke
He says I'm trolling up some statements here just to provoke
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 06:50:45 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, WayUpNorth
Deriving like a fool? Oh dear.
Brainer, I take it for granted that this one was a joke. And that you now actually have shown some self-irony through that joke. This is to me the only possible key to reading your last one, as the alternative would be to tragic to even think of. But for a poster with your "record" on this board, I found it surprisingly entertaining.
But don't bother to confirm whether my assumption is right or not, please. Jokes are never funny if you say "Hey, this is a joke and here's the punchline:..."
Besides I am terrified of the possibility of being wrong on this subject after all, and that we'll eventually have to live with the fact that you were actually serious. Not possible. Can't be. No way.
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 03:04:42 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, ohio
My main man Mean Dean/ That is my laugh for the day my friend'I bet they dont laugh this much on a Guns and Roses board!!
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 02:05:19 ET
Posted by: Cranbrook Awaits, Lovely BC
Mark,
There is a subtlety here that Brain wants to communicate, a metaphor, having to do with his early upbringing. Where he would pick his nose
and see "things", the "future" inside his boogers. That's when the "voices" started. In his early pre-booger days when he was in his room, he knew better than go outside or even venture as far as the stoop. "Those kids", those unintelligent other life forms, "They don't understand".
So to throw us off, Brain, sometimes known as "Hemorrhager" tries to
have others try and guess which "voices" he is hearing. Brain was young and poor, didn't have much time nor money to eat dinner, and probably liked to service drifters by the tracks for a sip of their Night Train or Mad Dog. He liked the drifters. For the most part they were rejects from society and unfortunately usually mentally ill,
just like himself.
Hope that clarifies things. With Brain, many times things aren't apparent until you realize how deep he shovels his own discern for metaphorical meanings in everything Steely Dan.
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 01:04:44 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, huh?
Brain - I sometimes wonder if there is something wrong with YOUR brain. First of all, I've never heard Fagen referred to as "Don the Deriver". Second you state that Don as a young man would drink Night Train or Mad Dog. I doubt if he's ever tasted either of those beverages.
Drinking his dinner from a paper sack is an image I see all the time. People on street corners drinking malt liquor in public or 32 oz beer bottle at a sporting event.
You read too much into it and as Dean points out, you have the bad habit of wording it as fact.
Mark in Boston
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 00:34:36 ET
Posted by: lvctgct, EojxeKe
Iq3bIl <a href="http://wzskdrrmuriu.com/">wzskdrrmuriu</a>, [url=http://fbzetorlkuif.com/]fbzetorlkuif[/url], [link=http://retgtkeruiys.com/]retgtkeruiys[/link], http://swxipfzoyomr.com/
Date: Tues, June 22, 2010, 00:24:45 ET
Posted by: Brain Hemorrhager,
Luke wrote:
"Why do these lyric lines bother me:
"Driving like a fool out to Hackensack.
Drinking his dinner from a paper sack." (sack - sack)"
There is a subtlety here that DF wants to communicate, a metaphor, having to do with his songwriting his early pre-CBAT days when he was in Passaic, NJ which is about five miles from Hackensack, NJ, which he uses to throw you off, like Barrytown, NY 3 miles from Bard College, NY, his alma mater. What describes what might have been really going on with DF at that time:
"DERIVING like a fool out IN Hackensack,
Drinking MY dinner from a paper sack
So to throw us off, DF, sometimes known as "Don the Deriver" changes the action verb and preposition in the first line, and the subject of the sentence in the second line. DF was young and poor, didn't have much time nor money to eat dinner, and probably liked to imbibe during songwriting. So he would drink Night Train or Mad Dog, which as you might know are horrible when warm and kept it in the paper sack as an insulator to help keep it chilled. Remember, they didn't have drink Koozies until the mid 1980's for that purpose.
Hope that clarifies things. With the Dan lyrics, many times these things aren't apparent and you gotta shovel real deep to discern the metaphorical meanings.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 22:17:03 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu
Thanks for the ASCAP link.
Another thing I always found
interesting about Florida Room,
besides the fact that I love it,
is that the lyrics are by both
Donald and Libby.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 21:33:21 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Klause - Yeah, poke is definitely a Southern word for bag. Haven't heard that in a long time. Did you go back and listen to that Florida Room track off Kama?
Here's another SD arrangement by Jake...
Really well done.
I wouldn't be surprised if this guy visited Howard Wright's site more than once.
Anyway.. enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvcm6CuY6zM
.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 21:30:54 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower
Steely Dan Australian tour in November:
http://undercover.com.au/News-Story.aspx?id=11151_Steely_Dan_To_Tour_Australia
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 20:46:59 ET
Posted by: kqzydpczxm, pRJIgy
NhXCnO <a href="http://vkvuxaofuhcp.com/">vkvuxaofuhcp</a>, [url=http://qmrxutrduvdo.com/]qmrxutrduvdo[/url], [link=http://aaxxuxaxvbkl.com/]aaxxuxaxvbkl[/link], http://fexaadbapgzj.com/
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 20:29:29 ET
Posted by: Abraham, & Strauss
It was "derived" from I Can't Function.
*******
I gotta make a little fortune
So I can bring it on home to you
You`re only hurting yourself my friend
Treating me the way you do
My hands are tied behind my back
I`m drinking dinner from a paper sack
Every day is the fourth of july
And I`m nothing but an april fool
Well I spend my days just cruising around
I can`t function
Honey when you run me down
Oh darling don`t you run me down
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 20:14:42 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Jazzassin, we are Dan-fans of a feather, that is for sure.
Klaus, I think having a poke in the sack is popular all over the USA. I've even had my fair share while in the bag. :#)
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 18:41:42 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, OHIO
This is prob noy helpful but thought it might be worth mentioning. A sack is a southern term as in a sack of groceries or a poke of groceries. Those of us from the north would say a bag of groceries. Dont know why the hell I even brought it up but there it is. And these are the things I miss the most.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 17:44:25 ET
Posted by: PGE, Summer solstice ... and fade to black
Thanks for the DF ASCAP video! Great to see.
And doesnt Donald seem at ease, enjoying himself?
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 17:29:30 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Dan Sudoku
Dean:
Two souls, one thought.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 17:28:28 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Dan Sudoku
steelydoubt's theory is of course a plausible one, but there is a chance The Dan Poets wanted to avoid the combination of "bag" and "back" - which occur in the next line "...but I'll be right back", and so the chose the double sack?
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 17:26:19 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. Shots anyone?
One more thing regarding Hackensack and sack.
Of course,the real payoff for the rhyme comes in the following line "He says I gotta see a joker and I'll be right back". Obviously both Hackensack and sack rhyme perfectly with "back".
Yes, "bag" would suck as an alternative, I think.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 17:22:34 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour
Interesting question, Luke. But I think you make a minor mistake by asserting "SD settled for the same sentence ending words". Clearly Hackensack is a different word than sack.
But I get your point (I think) and it probably isn't the epitome of Dan lyrics. I can imagine them struggling with it for a bit and simply saying "screw it" sack is fine.
Ending the second line with "bag" simply sucks, as it doesn't rhyme or feel right at all. (IMO, of course.)
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 16:45:36 ET
Posted by: steelydoubt, The
bags are plastic, if he got to the bottom he would sufficate, a sack tho, makes a good snack when ur running low on funds.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 16:28:47 ET
Posted by: fEBkQiZ, OLWuBpjP
hZIHut
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 16:27:58 ET
Posted by: Luke Filligree,
Why do these lyric lines bother me:
"Driving like a fool out to Hackensack.
Drinking his dinner from a paper sack." (sack - sack)
Why not paper "bag"? "Sack" and "bag" have assonance and remove the redundancy associated w/ the afore mentioned words. I'm surprised SD settled for the same sentence ending words.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 16:27:55 ET
Posted by: ygctkbbwp, qbyXpt
4XTv37 <a href="http://iddsupxwuetl.com/">iddsupxwuetl</a>, [url=http://iimtwakfgzjp.com/]iimtwakfgzjp[/url], [link=http://cnyrldbgctzs.com/]cnyrldbgctzs[/link], http://iudyqxqrxooh.com/
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 13:24:13 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, Jazz HOF
Klaus/Dean - thanks so much for finding that link to DF's induction ceremony! I was wondering if there would be any video to the event that took place last week. Very cool!
Mark in Boston
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 12:51:36 ET
Posted by: SteelyDoubt, Who am I?
can anyone get a pic of the Katy Lied inner sleeve cricket. i lost my scan years ago shortly after I abandoned my record collection. I need a good source for silkscreen.
oh and...
...katy lies, you can see it in her eyes...
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 12:03:31 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
Dean, I generally agree to your comment on shred vids if those are really the new big thing. But I, like Hutch, actually hadn't seen one before, and I guess that means I'm not spending too much time on the internet after all.
Nice video of Don at the ceremony! And I like how he kind of share the award with Walter, and says he hopes his partner will be included in the JHOF along with him someday soon!
Klaus, I can't imagine Jake having time to drink anything at all. He plays guitar 25/7. He has 99 vids on Youtube and an instructional dvd to everyone of them for sale... ;D
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 11:54:25 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston!
Great rendition. Love this few and far between "intimate" footage of WB or DF.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 11:48:18 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston!
Florida Room is a cut from Kamakiriad. Greeat chorus, one of my faves.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 11:37:38 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, ohio
Thanx for making that clear/ Dean. Is Florida room something already recorded or am I showing my ignorance? Not familiar w/ the song but I think Don plays great.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 11:32:14 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Klaus, thanks for the tip. Here's the url to the Fagen vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-JDwLJhQf4
Nice version of Florida Room with an extended jazzy open. Nice playing by Don.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 11:29:27 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Dean - That was the first time I'd seen that type of thing. Didn't know it was so over done. I see what you're saying. Made me laugh though.
Jazz - I've seen some of Jake's arrangements before. Very well done.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 11:23:46 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
While I admit I laughed a few times (Donald singing was the funniest part of that video), it would have been funnier to me if I hadn't already seen several of these "shreds" vids. After a while, the humor sort of wears off. Sort of like Professional Wrestling...funny for 10 minutes the first time and then simply pretty dull.
There is no reason to be offended by it, and if you find it humorous, then that's fine too. It's just hard for me to understand why this stuff has become so popular and imitated.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 11:23:06 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, ohio
Good call Jazz/ I am thinking this cat would also fit in the party/ of course up to you and sir Walter. I wonder if he drinks imported beer? As long as he plays that well I will buy him Pabst Blue Ribbon if thats his choice. New song on youtube w/ Donald accepting a jazz award' real nice and Carolyn Leonhart too. Dont know the HTTP but just punch in Donald Fagen jazz award.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 11:19:34 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
Typo alert
Was done. Not wasn't done. (And not Don Was)
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 11:15:57 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
No, Hutch, can you believe it that some don't find that funny? Our poor perfectionists broken down to clumsy amateurs... But it was so well edited that I can't imagine it wasn't done in disrespect. And the Dan is untouchable anyway!
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 11:05:28 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
Guess some have heard this guy already, but a good thing can't be repeated too much, I hope.
It's this guy Jake playing his own arrangements of SD songs on solo jazz guitar. Very nice work.
Babylon Sisters:
http://www.youtube.com/user/jreichbart#p/u/89/a6P8_wvdsAY
Hey Nineteen:
http://www.youtube.com/user/jreichbart#p/u/94/lFC_JzECGyU
Third World Man:
http://www.youtube.com/user/jreichbart#p/u/93/BI4ZSXfcwpY
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 10:50:16 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Jazz - Disturbing isn't it? But funny nonetheless.
And by the way, if you scroll down to the comments you'll see this:
1 year ago 4 Can't believe there are people who are seriously offended by this. Life's tough if your sense of humor stinks that badly.
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 10:26:15 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
Heeelp! Make it go away, mom!
Scary, scary video.
This one as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2uidYRrrUo&NR=1
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 10:20:52 ET
Posted by: Bernie,
Hutch- hilarious?
Date: Mon, June 21, 2010, 09:20:10 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
This is hilarious!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCVg5cOi5Gc
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 21:48:16 ET
Posted by: Book Search, bs
I'm not sure what this book is about, but one misheard word to the lyrics of Brooklyn is worthy of four paragraphs.
http://tinyurl.com/2anemmn
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 16:28:23 ET
Posted by: whewcwdpwsn, kbWaNDllpuiSoDdTTG
dhUyTI <a href="http://uzsbgswmvuaa.com/">uzsbgswmvuaa</a>, [url=http://mcsixbonbaac.com/]mcsixbonbaac[/url], [link=http://iyhzgvjhjnpj.com/]iyhzgvjhjnpj[/link], http://vrcazfugrlvb.com/
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 14:54:26 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
Fife, that was impressing for a 13 year old! And no less impressing the fact that he chose to play a Dan song. There's hope for the future after all.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 14:47:46 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Wow, Fife. Only 2 years? Very impressive and as you say, he seems to be quite cool while playing.
Nice to see good taste is passed down.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 14:40:15 ET
Posted by: fife, Baltimore, eh
Here's a sweet diversion. My very talented 13 yr old nephew playing "Reelin in the years" He had the whole thing memorized and played with a maturity that is very natural for him. He's been playing for 2 years....it's good I promise!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmSPuUqW6tA
Fife
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 14:24:59 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
Thanks, Klaus. My limited english skills nearly fooled me for a second.
Your left hand is the one where your thumb points to the right, and your right hand is the other one and has a thumb that points to the left. Piece of cake.
Not heard from the Waltman? Hm. Try to connect a mic to your computer and shout for him then, or call your internet provider for a faster, broader band and write in CAPS. Just my two Norwegian Krones.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 14:02:55 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, ohio
Jazz/ No way bro' I was referring to the dirtbags whom we all know and have read thier disrespectful posts. Time to man [or woman] up and post an apology' dont fuck with the great Raj on this board and not expect to get called on it! We are all human and make mistakes/ to admit and repent is divine. P.S. I still have not heard from Walty Jazz!! I think I will purchase hie Ticket just in case
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 13:40:20 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, On the Lake
People like BH and Jan, whether they are one in the same or not, don't even deserve my response. They are ugly, sad, lost individuals who find ignorant, abrasive behavior their only way to get attention, as they have no other redeeming qualities. 'Nuff said, I wouldn't want to be like them.
I'm finding the Little Feat/Dan thread interesting, as LF is second only to Steely Dan as my favorite band. "Front Page News" sounds like it could actually be a cover of a SD song, and I'd love to hear Donald do that one live, along with "Red Streamliner." Planning to go to Danbury, but would like to attend a show where the most members of the Blue will be. I need some Dan Karma these days.
Happy Father's day to all the guys out there, and a special Father's Day wish for Rajah. I wish it were all a hoax by him and he was still alive, just wanting to read what people would say about him after his demise. Unfortunately this isn't the case, but I wouldn't have put it past him.
Hoops, this is an outstanding website and you are a patient and gracious host. IMHO, it should have been available by paid membership only a long time ago, but I know that's not your way. You can count on me for support. Thanks for all you do.
G
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 13:12:56 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
Klaus
You got me a bit confused now. Was that part about insulting Rajah adressed to me? If so, I must admit that I can hardly see where I've done that. I assure you that nothing I've written here was meant insulting towards anybody, but if you refresh my memory a bit and point out what was eventually badly expressed, I will of course apologize if I have in fact offended anyone by accident.
As far as I know I haven't posted anything about him after he passed away that wasn't done with respect, and I even tried, in a diplomatic way, in my last long post to remind others to be careful with their words in such matters, as well.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 13:05:45 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Klaus,
I'm certainly nowhere near the reigning Danster (but thanks for that anyway). I don't think you should hold your breath waiting for an apology from BH. He declined to correct that earlier, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.
But you are right about Raj, he would have shrugged it off. I'm ready to move on, too.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 12:19:33 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, ohio
Jazz/ thanx for having my back' I def prefer a six pack when I am playing[ something about being able to tell my right hand from the left without delving into the right side of the brain controls the left'etc etc. As far as Contributing to this host to keep this board up and running' we all owe a debt of gratitude to Hoops for keeping this thing going for so long. To that malcontent who sullied Raj' I have a feeling you were trying to be [Dannish clever]. Post a sincere apology and lets get on w/ the Dukes of Sep talk. Dean/ like it or not' I think you are the reigning Danster here so I will defer to you on what is cool or not' but I kind of think the great Raj would have shrugged it off.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 12:08:20 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
Thanks for that tip, Dean.
I immediatly searched up the Crawford Fiesta on a music streaming service to which I subscribe, called WIMP, and I now listen to the entire album while writing... Viva la Internet!
It's lovely, insanely swingin' good-time-boogie, and one would have to be more than reasonably grumpy not to smile and dance a little to this one, I think.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 11:12:37 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Jazz,
On your recommendation, I will check out Duke Elegant. Of course I have heard the great City Lights, but I may have to revisit it.
Another I plan to revisit, and can recommend to a Dr. John fan, is Professor Longhair's Crawfish Fiesta. It's produced by Mac and he actually plays guitar on the album. Of course Longhair's piano is always sensational.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 10:56:08 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Dr Mu:
I was at The Rainbow, London on the night they were recording (at least some of) Waiting for Columbus.
Without doubt one of the best musical experiences of my life and one which will stay with me forever.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 10:39:12 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
Hoops:
I hope your luck changes, and that you find a meaningful, challenging and well paid job very soon!
Everyone:
In the meantime, it's very important that we all (citizens of the Greater Dandom) show some responsibility to keep this favorite forum of ours alive and kicking, so that as long as Hoops are willing to still put som effort into the practical side of maintaining it, the economy shouldn't be an issue at all these days. And I think it would be a shame if it still is a problem about a week after he put the donate button up there.
I hope people understand that nothing is for free, and that now is the time to contribute.
As for the strainers, I agree with Dean and some others that all the talk about songs being derived from other songs doesn't always make sense. As I have pointed out before, most possible combinations of notes and instrumentation/arrangement details contained within a few bars of music has been used before in some context.
But what can be fun about the strainers is that they deal with (sometimes) interesting similarities, and challenges us to do comparisions.
But BH, are you sure that the poster "MyGuess" is not derived from the poster "BH"? :D
Btw, much work and other circumstances recently has stolen my time and kept me from writing much here or participate in strainers for a while, but keep'em coming - I may not always agree to your conclusions but find it entertaining anyway.
Today's Recommendation (I):
Dr. John's 1978 album "City Lights" is a brilliant record, and it's quite dangential in the sense that it has musicians like Steve Gadd on drums and Hugh McCracken on guitar. It's kind of a concept album, and the overall feel of the lyrics is as ironic and darkly humorous as any Dan fan could ever want it.
The music and arrangements are superb, and the musicians plays as if they got paid! One of my top 50 favorites any given day, and maybe a top 10 on a good Dr. John day.
Today's Recommendation (II):
Dr. John's 2000 album "Duke Elegant". MacRebennack plays songs from Ellingtons canon, and anyone who likes Dr. John, Duke Ellington and/or Steely Dan should give it a listen. Dr. John and Duke Ellington fans for obvious reasons, and SD fans because there is tons of Dan-ish arrangement details on this record. I will not try to explain what I mean by this, you'll have to listen for yourself, but I can assure you that on some instrumental parts you could swear you just heard exerpts from previously unheard SD songs. No kidding.
Besides, the general funkification of these Ellington songs is the work of a true master with the same kind of respect for the Old Master as Steely Dan has.
A must-have.
Dean & Doc Mu:
Aaahh, Little Feat! AAaahh!!
Dug them for as long as I can remember. Just now watching a concert on dvd with Little Feat live at the Pinkpop Festival in Holland back in -76. Un-be-fucking-lievable!
I actually shed tears the day i 1979 when we got the news that Lowell George had died. And was a heterosexual boy of 16 at the time. That says something about how much I adored Lowell & LF, I guess.
So Today's Recommendation (III) will have to be anything Little Feat with the original line-up. Doesn't get any better.
Last, but not least, I want to remind us all about the golden rule when talking about dead people. If we have issues or disagreements between us on this planet, the time to speak and sort it out is when both parts are still with us. After that, one should speak kindly of one another or stay silent!
Jan H, who the hell do you think you are to vommit on our dinner?
Klaus, it's ok. I'll take your share, and I will gladly wake up on the floor for you as well! ;) It's just that I play better when drinking less and smoking more...
We all have ours.
Donate!
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 10:20:13 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
BH,
"Vitriolic Diatribe"? First of all, I think the worst thing I said is that you are an "idiot". And I dubbed you that not for your little quiz, but for your insensitive comments about Rajah. Let's make that perfectly clear.
And while you say "kinder words were probably written about Hitler", I'm sure that's probably true...but they were likely written by Nazis or Nazi sympathizers. I use much harsher criticism when discussing Hitler, I assure you.
Reuben, very good post. But, if I may offer a suggestion: White Space man! It is very hard to read, when there is no white space (or blue space in this case, I guess.) You think I'm crazy, but I'm just growing old.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 08:35:44 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, These Suburban Streets
Jan H HAS to be one of the biggest asshats I have encountered in years.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 08:15:11 ET
Posted by: mylsfa, XdiWnIfSCUUvwUX
6SSV4R <a href="http://extgowqvuljr.com/">extgowqvuljr</a>, [url=http://ylsaxcvqgpwn.com/]ylsaxcvqgpwn[/url], [link=http://tmhudnoqvwsg.com/]tmhudnoqvwsg[/link], http://uaoneajyfgyp.com/
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 06:40:56 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Boston Rag - I'm gonna go with "mentally ill AND a total asshole".
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 04:28:22 ET
Posted by: impassyFlolla, Tanzania
MARIANNA Alexis to avoid early evaluations when listening to a per HUI TOMMIE
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 04:02:45 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
Great. I subject you all to that load twice, and there are still two typos. What a dumbass. What a ruben.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 04:02:29 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
Great. I subject you all to that load twice, and there are still two typos. What a dumbass. What a ruben.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 03:37:53 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
SCROLL ALERT: YES, this is all about a pussy-ass crybaby-- ME.
Oh, my droogs and scurvy brothers: What a long and strange three day trip it's been. After a month long vacation for you all necessitated by end-of-school; win-the-pennant; let's-settle-the-boys-into-a-new-routine; why-don't-you-try-ACTING-like-a-professional-Dad duties, about 66 hours ago I came back to this http where J"H"McKay tolerates me, and some other people put up with me, to catch up after almost a month and praise "The 'A' Team." That was all. No central fallacy in Brian Sweet; No repeating that TGPagodaOF is the greatest song about a sore subject since GodWhacker; no opining that Mona is my sister. One movie with one "album" and one ring tone; that's all. My wife awakens to me crying like a baby about the death of a guy I never knew whether I was ever within three time zones of-- a guy that I'd shared a little e-conversation with; some ideas with; a whole lotta good chi vibe with --a guy that I am presumptuous enough to think was one of my kind. Mercury aside, things weren't so hot that day. So I try to mechanize my cope for some hours and try again. What do I find? Mr. BS, or Hem, has vomited out something that even I can find beyond the pale. My pack will tell you that I hold nothing sacred- well, that they've figured out in 30+ years, anyway -and that I am a confirmed coward. But Mr. Brain, if I could have gotten hold of you Thursday night, I would have taught you the meaning of hemorrhage and then put you through a strainer. And I woke two boys up twice sobbing and snuffling as thumbed a tutorial on vitriolic invective. Through my tears I hit delete instead of enter. What a ruben! I know the BH guy is just a guy. And while I agree with The Dean that "Do You Hear What I Hear?" Is a better moniker, I also remember the Santana song from which DIA was "derived." Apologies to you both. Another day to cope, cry, and figure out just how IS the plan coming together? So last night here comes our genial host with hat in hand. It's like me apologizing for being a horse's ass-- something that should have happened long ago (and often) but never has, or perhaps you should think of it as a brand new experience in practical reality. No problem if a luddite could get an app. But wait. Somebody wants to cast aspersions on a guy who at $.25/hour has back pay that Ozzie Guillen or Lou Piniella couldn't find words to express. Somebody would treat Bobby Hull like Bill Wirtz? For shame. An hour ago I owed the web-master two beers and a hoodie. And that is just in MY mind. I have publicly and on one occaision (I believe) privately asked this fellow if he would take monetary support, and he has never accepted so much as a "tweet" from me or the Canis Lupidae. Well, there's my catharsis. I'm sure both of you following along found it more of an emetic because it was a physic, but now I feel so good that I'm gonna figure out how to get Hoops one of those bungalows on Lakeshore Drive. Free and clear, of course.
Rajah, in spite of that part of you here with/in me and because of what you left for those you knew and cared about, I know your value in the life calculus is exactly where you want it to be I love you. Mr.Brain, you just keep right on as far as it is my right to an opinion, because I would have ventured to say that had Rajah ever chosen to strain unto hemorrhage in the Blue realm of Dandom, I suspect we all might have been washed in the blood of the lambast. Mr. McKay, as always, thank you for a forum that took me from Gad to Asher and back and all because of the greatest American rock and roll band in music history. Or, probably, because I'm an extra bent megalomaniac.
And now back to your regularly scheduled web logging:
Wu you are on to something. Remember: the narrator IS Dr. Wu.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 03:37:33 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR
SCROLL ALERT: YES, this is all about a pussy-ass crybaby-- ME.
Oh, my droogs and scurvy brothers: What a long and strange three day trip it's been. After a month long vacation for you all necessitated by end-of-school; win-the-pennant; let's-settle-the-boys-into-a-new-routine; why-don't-you-try-ACTING-like-a-professional-Dad duties, about 66 hours ago I came back to this http where J"H"McKay tolerates me, and some other people put up with me, to catch up after almost a month and praise "The 'A' Team." That was all. No central fallacy in Brian Sweet; No repeating that TGPagodaOF is the greatest song about a sore subject since GodWhacker; no opining that Mona is my sister. One movie with one "album" and one ring tone; that's all. My wife awakens to me crying like a baby about the death of a guy I never knew whether I was ever within three time zones of-- a guy that I'd shared a little e-conversation with; some ideas with; a whole lotta good chi vibe with --a guy that I am presumptuous enough to think was one of my kind. Mercury aside, things weren't so hot that day. So I try to mechanize my cope for some hours and try again. What do I find? Mr. BS, or Hem, has vomited out something that even I can find beyond the pale. My pack will tell you that I hold nothing sacred- well, that they've figured out in 30+ years, anyway -and that I am a confirmed coward. But Mr. Brain, if I could have gotten hold of you Thursday night, I would have taught you the meaning of hemorrhage and then put you through a strainer. And I woke two boys up twice sobbing and snuffling as thumbed a tutorial on vitriolic invective. Through my tears I hit delete instead of enter. What a ruben! I know the BH guy is just a guy. And while I agree with The Dean that "Do You Hear What I Hear?" Is a better moniker, I also remember the Santana song from which DIA was "derived." Apologies to you both. Another day to cope, cry, and figure out just how IS the plan coming together? So last night here comes our genial host with hat in hand. It's like me apologizing for being a horse's ass-- something that should have happened long ago (and often) but never has, or perhaps you should think of it as a brand new experience in practical reality. No problem if a luddite could get an app. But wait. Somebody wants to cast aspersions on a guy who at $.25/hour has back pay that Ozzie Guillen or Lou Piniella couldn't find words to express. Somebody would treat Bobby Hull like Bill Wirtz? For shame. An hour ago I owed the web-master two beers and a hoodie. And that is just in MY mind. I have publicly and on one occaision (I believe) privately asked this fellow if he would take monetary support, and he has never accepted so much as a "tweet" from me or the Canis Lupidae. Well, there's my catharsis. I'm sure both of you following along found it more of an emetic because it was a physic, but now I feel so good that I'm gonna figure out how to get Hoops one of those bungalows on Lakeshore Drive. Free and clear, of course.
Rajah, in spite of that part of you here with/in me and because of what you left for those you knew and cared about, I know your value in the life calculus is exactly where you want it to be I love you. Mr.Brain, you just keep right on as far as it is my right to an opinion, because I would have ventured to say that had Rajah ever chosen to strain unto hemorrhage in the Blue realm of Dandom, I suspect we all might have been washed in the blood of the lambast. Mr. McKay, as always, thank you for a forum that took me from Gad to Asher and back and all because of the greatest American rock and roll band in music history. Or, probably, because I'm an extra bent megalomaniac.
And now back to your regularly scheduled web logging:
Wu you are on to something. Remember: the narrator IS Dr. Wu.
Date: Sun, June 20, 2010, 00:48:32 ET
Posted by: Brain Hemorrhager,
To the “Dean of Mean”
Holy shit, man! Why these vitriolic diatribes? As I just saw these, I was thinking that if this had been a few years ago, and my name were not in them, you might have thought they were for Rajah. :o). Or NY Bill? Or written by Newark. With your permission I’d like to use some of those next time someone cuts in front of me at Whole Foods or screws up my order at Ruth’s Chris. I mean you’ve got Ann of Borneo, your handle really could be changed to the “Wild Man of Borneo”. Just because we have a philosophical difference of opinion should not evoke such posts,. It’s unprofessional, and shall I say kinder words were probably written about Hitler. You and some others were calling for my head just a week ago for what was not even a personal attack, and yet YOU are allowed to personally attack viciously with impunity? What did I ever do to you? And there ain’t no justice.
If you don’t want to participate in the Strainer/Hemorrhager questions, then scroll on. It’s that simple. If you think you are good at these sorts of questions, and have confidence in your ability, you say that you do these types of listening with your friends, then by all means take a stab at one of them. Or come up with some good or BETTER alternatives, just like the posters “My guess” (Don’t Let Me In) and “Dr. Mu” (Confide in Me) have done recently. “Confide in Me” was found to be the “best” answer, a song which I was not aware of when I came up with the question. And we get a ‘better’ answer. There are times like those, where someone comes in with something out of left field, and we get some good discussion. Since I write the questions, I have an answer in mind, and it may not always the “best” or absolutely “correct” answer (semantics). Unless someone comes in with a better answer, it remains "correct". It's like Newtonian mechanics being superseded by Relativistic or Quantum mechanics :o). But really, none of this was ever purported to be an “exact science”. We are looking at nuances in the music, some of which cannot be explained even by Fagen himself since almost 40 years have passed in some cases. But people’s observations and some of the conjecture (derivations & origins) that is what’s entertaining and interesting, and at times might even be preposterous (sometimes BY DESIGN!).
Now, the fact is, and I did not want to say this, that you have had NO correct (or “best”)answers, but continue this line of personal attacks. Usually,but not always, someone who does this sort of thing results from their lacking confidence in their ability. But I do recall you making the connection awhile back between Tommy Tutone’s “Jenny” and a recent Bruce Springsteen song (can’t recall the title). So we have seen some of your ability, then you might want to make some attempts at a Strainer/Hemorrhager. If you guess wrong, you, nor anyone else will ever be attacked by me. I can’t control what others might do, though. But there is no history of anyone being subjected to anything near what you have been spewing if their answer is not the “best” fit, or best that WE can come up with at any point in time. Strainer/Hemorrhager is about entertainment, listening more closely to the music, new discoveries, having some fun, (as should be Dandom) and maybe learning something new which is something you mustn’t forget.
And there is one last, most important thing you mustn’t forget, and that is this:
I’m rubber, you’re glue, everything bad you say sticks right back to YOU!
So there.
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 20:07:09 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
Dean,
I completely agree. When Lowell George and Little Feat were on, they were the best. The versions of Fat Man in the Bathtub and Spanish Moon from the live album Waiting for Columbus should be recognized for as a pinnacle of R&B and American soul in the best sense.
Instead of New Yorkers and Texans doing country pop lite like the Eagles...here we have Cali guys (George, Barrere) and a Texas (Bill Payne) doing some seriously tasty Creole gumbo mix of R&B, country, and jazz that has never been duplicated...outside New Orleans. N'awlins native Gradney lays down a nasty bass line that sets the pace for a deep, deep groove.
I like that version of Time Loves a Hero.
Now Willin' really reminds me a lot of a song The Band would do. "driven every kind of rig that's ever been made...driven the backroads so I wouldn't get weighed."
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 20:00:00 ET
Posted by: Brutus Charisma,
One of WB's fav songs - and he digs it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5Lz7QXf9oA&feature=related
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 19:59:44 ET
Posted by: Wu, again
Trivial, but I meant "following," not "above" when referring to the io9 article link. Editing happens.
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 19:28:19 ET
Posted by: Wu, meanings
Was reading the above io9 article discussing Larry Niven's Ringworld (as part of the io9 series "Blogging the Hugos")...
http://io9.com/5566084/ringworld-is-a-lot-like-lost-but-theres-a-crucial-difference
...when I came across a Wikipedia link on various meanings of the Chinese word Wu (of course, due to the main Ringworld character being one Louis Wu, who's "...name even means someone who masters the mysteries of the universe"). The wikilink...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_%28shaman%29
Not saying it has any bearing on anything whatsoever or that there may be any sort of derivation one way or another, but I just can't help being wooed by anything wu-ish. I doubt it's worth reading in totality, but a quick skim was of some minor interest, I thought. Or maybe not. Whatevah...
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 17:58:40 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour
When Shakedown Street first came out, I confess I didn't like it one bit. While it is still nowhere near one of my favorites, I did soften a bit on some of the songs over the years. It really shocked me to hear Fagen singing the title song with Levon. Pretty good groove, though, I have to admit.
And yes, there is a bit of similarity between SS and Spanish Moon. But Spanish Moon I LOVED right from the start. I'd bet none of the songs mentioned were "derived" from any of the others, though. I know you weren't suggesting they were.
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 17:24:26 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
Geo - I'm not sure what your point is. The melodies, harmonies, and chord progression in Transisland Skyway in no manner resemble Shakedown Street. They both have a bit of R&B in the rhythm guitar (SS was from the disco age)
Did Fagen write the horn charts for Kama? Yes. He shared or wrote writing horn bits from Gaucho on. The horns IMO are some of the best part of the album, but again this has very little to do with the Dead's recording.
Fagen played it with Levon Helm on the recent tour - now there's your link, I guess...again, just jazzy enough to be something he's like to do. There's a thing or two in the bass and a couple of descending chords that have the tiniest sliver of Black Cow and perhaps Countermoon, but that's another deal.
Anyway, the song reminds me more of Spanish Moon by Little Feat in groove at least
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTaXrkrW3WU
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 16:43:51 ET
Posted by: geo,
Mu- Shakedown Street never had horns. That Fagen version sure sounds like his horn arraignment. It sounds like he's trying to spice up this song a bit. If somebody would have told me in the 70's that DF would covering a "Dead" song I would have shit! Hopefully many more to come!
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 16:00:15 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,
BS: With all due respect Shakedown Street shares very little with any of the Fagen catalog. It does have a few jazz chord progressions, but they resemble much more Little Feat and to a lesser extent Boz Scaggs' work.
I have one for you. These 2 songs within the entire catalog both begin with very similar altered blues vamps...one with a theme 5 notes finishing with an ascending climb after the 3rd note, the other a 6 note ascending then descending vamp...both repeated for effect
Name those tunes.
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 14:47:15 ET
Posted by: a, crostic
Just
Another
Nutcase
Hater
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 14:31:05 ET
Posted by: Fezzie, boston
Jim, please send me your po.box number again via e-mail,i must have deleted after sending you a package recently,thanks....fezzie
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 14:27:12 ET
Posted by: P. Lipton,
DR. JAMES T. MCKAY: THANK YOU, BABY!!!!!
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 14:05:26 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, .
Jan – you’re either mentally ill or a total asshole. Probably both.
I shudder to think about the number of hours Jim has put into Dandom activities. Twenty years of publishing a Digest, 15 years of monitoring the Bluebook. Being on-call 24/7 to deal with wackos and saboteurs who try and bring down the Blue. With quiet precision, week in and week out , Jim’s information machine hums along. All the while, Jim sacrifices personal time and personal issues while serving loyal Dandom.
Back in 2000, the late Bill Griffin and stepped up and coordinated a series of Boston Danfests. Another Dan activity created and driven by Jim. Bill and I wanted to give something back to Jim and sold Danfest t-shirts for $10. The profits after printing costs we wanted to give to Jim as a very small donation to the Blue costs. We practically had to beat him over the head to take the money. And being the classy guy that he is, still personally thanks Bill and I at the end of every Digest!
This is a great source of Steely Dan information. I come here at least once a week looking for any new piece of info on the activities of Becker and Fagen. I hope it continues to roll on for another 20 years.
Jim, thanks again and I know you will land on your feet!
Regards,
Mark in Boston
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 14:00:05 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Anne:
I think your second para. may well have hit the proverbial nail on the head.
I hadn't considered that possibility, I must admit.
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 13:16:47 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo
Super-tribute band - almost as good as the real thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAvYHXz7XsA
Hmmmm, re-recent undesirable comments around here......has someone let a fresh water fish out of its tank down at the funny fish farm I wonder? Old timers will know what I'm talking about!
Jim, sorry to hear of your recent misfortune and I'm throwing positive thoughts out to the Universe for you - a guy so talented and committed as you, who has done so much to bring people together and spread so much happiness and good will deserves every success.
When one door closes, another opens............ :-)
Ann
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 13:00:42 ET
Posted by: Sherlock, Columbo
I think Jan H may be an old nemesis from the deep, like the Balrog, with a pre-existing anti-Gandalf agenda. The Donate button is just an excuse to flail that fiery whip . . . nasty sarcasm rather than a genuinely held position.
Even if you had only a passing acquaintance with SD and the Blue you would be hard pushed to form an actual opinion like the one expressed.
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 08:53:06 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Jan H:
Close the door on your way out and please don't return, you ungracious moron.
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 08:39:20 ET
Posted by: NRN, wherever my gps says
I've seen Boz solo, Boz with MM, Fagen solo, MM with SD etc. etc. etc. I know it's not going to happen, but it would be fine by me if they shelved their own material altogether and just did covers.
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 01:16:21 ET
Posted by: A fan, internet
Jan, Hoops has been running this site for 10+ years; I've followed it regularly for at least 7, and I've seen many posters ask Hoops to put up a donation link simply out of appreciation for his work and the knowledge that bandwidth isn't free. To my knowledge, he never did, until now.
I doubt there's any chance of a profit being made after a decade of footing hosting bills so that jerk offs like you can question his intentions.
Date: Sat, June 19, 2010, 00:21:27 ET
Posted by: almost gothic negative girl, monterey
Jan H ~
There are no issues here. How dare you? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
Yeah, Hoops is the quintessential Royal Scammer. Been suckin' us all dry for years now, never giving anything back to the SD community.
Hey Jim, please stop rippin' us off. Try doing something positive for a change.
Geeze, I am nearly speechless, yet my fingers keep typing...
As always, THANK YOU Mr. McKay. Best of luck to you! These are critical times, but there are most assuredly better days ahead. Keep on truckin'.
linda
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 22:55:41 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Wow Jan,
Another pointless, classless and clueless post. I'm a bit astonished someone would attack Hoops and make unfounded assumptions about his finances. As long as I have been coming here, he has never asked for any assistance.
If you believe he shouldn't need assistance, or this site isn't worth a contribution then fine. Don't send any $$. It isn't a requirement to visit this site. But to publicly question his motivation and/or dispute his need is beyond tacky.
Your assertion that you were going to send money, until you considered the issues, fails the reality test, IMO. Did you really go through the process of considering whether Jim needs help to continue running this site? If so, what do you know about Jim's salary? His expenses? Does he contribute an inordinate amount to charity? Does he contribute any significant amount to an unfortunate or ill family member or friend? Is it even remotely possible he lost much of his savings in the country's recent financial disaster? Might he have had some personal medical expenses? Do you know how much, or how little, it costs to maintain this site?
What's worse is, you think that is any of your business. Jim supplies Steely Dan fans a great service. Even if he was rolling in dough, he has a right to charge for that service, or at least ask us to share in his burden. Either contribute or don't. Belittling our benefactor simply make you look like a douchebag.
Which leads me to a question. Are you a regular member of this community? I don't recall your handle (Jan H). It's possible I have simply missed your posts but a quick search back to September 2009 fails to turn up even ONE post from "Jan H".
I love the open community Hoops has created and maintained for us Dan fans. But these recent posts by those who don't contribute anything of substance to our community sometimes makes me think, "Mary Shut the Garden Door"
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 21:45:44 ET
Posted by: CJB, YVR
Wow. How ungracious.
I haven't been here that long, but it is clear to me that Hoops has been donating time (from what I can see, considerable) and good will (ditto) to the Blue for years. So it's easy for me to make the decision to give back, and to cough up a few $$$.
I don't want to give Hoops a full financial makeover, or stick my nose into his personal situation. That's none of my business. Hoops can spend my $ on site hosting, Cuervo Gold, dinner at Mr. Chow's, getting full gold fronts put in....whatever. My money doesn't care and has no memory. But at least it doesn't come come with a great whack of holier-than-thou attitude.
Hoops, best of luck to you. If I ever see you at a show, I'll be glad to step on in and shake your hand.
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 21:43:12 ET
Posted by: KD, -
Jan H,
I would like to see you at a show, and slap the crap out of you.
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 21:37:06 ET
Posted by: Jan H.,
Hoops
I was going to send you some money, but there are some issues here.
You have been working for 25 years as a highly paid professor and don't have the money to run a website? You must also be about 50 maybe?
How could you be that poor, seriously. If you are in this financial state at this age and don't have aaccess tens or maybe hundreds of dollars you are in far serious trouble financially than you might realize, meaning that you probably are not going to be able to continue to run the Blue on the tens of dollars that people are going to donate. You really need tens of thousands of dollars to sustain yourself. The pittance that you might get from the Blue members will not be enough to make a difference. Its a go or no go.
I hope your plea is genuine and you are not doing this to make a profit off of this site, which you are free to do. But whether we give you ten or a hundred even a thousand, it won't make a difference if your situation is really that bad.
Best of luck. Maybe I'll see you at one of the shows.
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 21:29:12 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Big Fan,
Re: Spyro Gyra
I grew up in Niagara Falls, NY. As you may know, Spyro Gyra hails from Buffalo, and they used to play at the old Tralfamadore Cafe (a basement/underground speakeasy sort of joint on Main Street in Buffalo). While in high school we'd drive to Buffalo to hit the Tralf (drinking age was 18 then, and maybe we were pushing it a bit). The admission was $1 most nights.
While I'm no longer the biggest Spyro Gyra fan, I can tell you it was quite the time. The band was terrific and the atmosphere was not to be believed. After the shows, we would walk down the street to Slombas Bar, a neighborhood bar specializing in huge drinks and cheap shots. I remember going to Slombas many times, but really have no recollection of leaving. Thankfully I no longer drive when in that condition.
Anyway, I am curious to know how Jay and the band sound these days. Any quick review would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 19:52:27 ET
Posted by: $, $
Hey Jim - can you put a mailing address on the donate page for those of us who'd write a cheque ? Cheers, Joseph
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 17:08:01 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, Home at Last
We caught Spyro Gyra at Infinity Hall in Norfolk, CT last night. Bought those tickets when we saw Al Stewart there about a month ago. Picked up two tickets to Beau Bolero last night for the July 7th show. If haven't been there, Infinity Hall is about the coolest place to see live music. Seats about 250 - not a bad seat in the house. We only live 15 minutes away. Fantastic acoustics. My wife plays there a few times a year. Even nicer than the Bearsville Theater.
Picked up two Gold Circle tickets for the Dukes of September show at Ives Concert Park in Danbury, CT on the 19th of August. Would have loved to go to the Wang - great venue, but I've been there and Danbury is closer and a different venue.
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 15:15:53 ET
Posted by: Casual Fan, Orlando
Hoops,
I may get up there for that Chicago show. Got to check to see if there's a Cubs game that weekend as I've always wanted to go to Wrigley.
You're a good man and we appreciate your efforts, as you must know. You should have said something sooner, but I know you hate bringing it up at all, which made it all the easier to contribute my admittedly paltry sum. Hope the job situation turns on the proverbial dime and goes your way, sir.
CF
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 14:29:15 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago
Hey gang!
The following has some not-so-Dan-ish content, but thanks for indulging me in this, what I think is a rare instance.
========
Exciting stuff with this Fagen/McDonald/Scaggs tour coming up...I lay awake wondering how much solo Fagen stuff we might hear...silly thoughts like, "O.K., if they play 21 songs, that would be 7.2 for Donald--maybe three or four Fagen solo tracks we haven't heard in years...at least since 2006?" Fact is, the shows won't quite work that way...or will they...silly thoughts, like I said.
According to DF in the Billboard article, Walter Becker wants the early fall off, but I keep having that silly, out there thought about him sharing the bill with Joe Jackson...again, silly stuff...not going to happen.
I haven't been able to follow all the the back and forth about the Brain Hemorrhager's latest question, although the Rajah bit, I understand the offense some feel. Normally, I like to say any comments are more reflective on the person who said them than the person who is being written about...but this is one of those exceptions. If anyone wants their post edited by me, please email me and I will take care of it. (I will be away this evening.) But the posts are too tangled for me to feel comfortable at this point doing any editing. I think what's posted does a better job of explaining the whole thing.
Back to today's debate about the latest BH quiz question, I dunno, as I start following the back and forth, I am finding the quibbling a bit of a boner-killer since I'm all excited about the Dukes.
Remember, a lot of shows go on sale today, tomorrow, etc.
And remember, the pre-sales are just another chance to buy tickets, but just because you don't buy during the pre-sales doesn't mean that you will miss out on the best tickets.
Good tickets are released periodically practically up to the day of the show.
Chicago's show is on a Saturday--how about a Danfest? And for those so inclined--and this has nothing exactly to do with Steely Dan except that Danfests served as the template--I'll be hosting the annual Marshall Field's and Chicago rally on State Street the next day (Sunday), about 300' down from the theatre. Contact me off-line about that one. Think of it as a Danfest with protest signs, police and TV crews, if they show this time like they have in the past. Fun stuff. Good practice for even more important causes. And yes, I will be there with, "...my megaphone." (Please read the last two words like in "Don't Take Me Alive."
=======
So back maybe four months ago, I wrote that I was losing my job. I have figured out that it is the first time I've been unemployed since 1986! At that time, I went from unemployment to one of the best jobs that I ever had. So now I am very hopeful about what's around the corner.
But what I brought up then as a possibility is now a reality that I have to lay on the table: I have been paying the rent for the BlueBook, the Dandom/Danfest lists, Dandom Digest server, Radio Free Dandom, etc for the past ten years. But for the past three months, I've been unemployed...in fact, due to a quirk in my state's employment laws, I haven't been eligible for unemployment pay, etc., etc. So for the past three months, I've been covering things with some savings but I can't do that any more. To be honest, I'm not sure I'm even going to be able to buy tickets except for one or two shows in September.
So I hate to ask for help covering dandom.com expenses, especially when I still have to transition this site to more reasonably priced services. Back circa 2000-2001 when the site as we know it was established, it was a great deal. Now not so much and I have started transitioning but have a lot to do, when I'm not looking for a new job.
So I'm asking, if you have benefitted from the site--and are in a position to donate a couple of bucks--please click the yellow "donate" button near the top of the page. Much appreciated. Let me assure you that anything donated will only be used to pay for dandom.com expenses. And those of you who have contributed in the past are NOT TO DONATE. I'd rather keep the discuss of all this to a bare minimum since I don't wish us to detract from the main focus of this board, Walter and Donald.
If you don't like PayPal, I take checks. I hate having to write stuff like that.
And hey, if you think you know of job for a rumpled professor with internet experience and design experience, not to mention experience in public and media relations and a quirky but delightful sense of tact, poise and reason, please email me privately and I will zap out my resume to you.
Best wishes and many thanks for your consideration.
Jim
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 14:15:05 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo
Girl Margaret!
Ah yes! the T shirt!! Mrs C..... LOL!!!!!!!
why am I trapped in Borneo and missing all the fun!??
Just hope that Don is reading this: If you're going to Australia, just drop in to Singapore.....or better still, come and drink a zombie from a really fresh coconut here in Borneo!
A tangential comment: I first got in to SD because of the Latin grooves of Do it Again....as I was a mad Santana fan at the time....
Back in May, Borneo hosted the Miri Jazz Festival and one of the top bands was Michael Shrieve's Spellbinder. Some of you old timers will recognise the name as Santana's original drummer and the amazing drum solo he did as a 20 year old in the Woodstock festival/film. 41 years later the guy still rocks big time. Got to meet him and had a chat. What a first class guy he is - very humble and appreciative, and such an amazing talent.
Now there's an idea for a tie-up with the Don!
Just to remind you of Michael's talent, here's the clip from the Woodstock movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLDalZ4-53g&feature=PlayList&p=03C7E4DA460591C2&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=56
(love the way the dog smiles at the start of this!)
and now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_tjE2bq-XY
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 13:56:10 ET
Posted by: The X Factor, Minneapolis
CT: Glad to see another youngin' on the Blue! I myself am just 22, and can proudly say that I imbibed my first Scotch Whiskey in honor of The Dan before the Chicago Royal Scam show last summer. Suffice it to say, the best concert I've ever been to!
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 13:50:08 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
The Dean:
I understand where you're coming from and I agree entirely with every point you make.
It seems, though, that I am not entitled to an opinion, even if I do not seek to claim it as "correct" and not, as it clearly IS, subjective.
Deeply insulting IMHO.
You really could not make it up could you?
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 13:49:59 ET
Posted by: Al Suarez, SF Bay Area
Woo Hoo! Fagen, McDonald, Scaggs Join Forces For Rhythm Revue Tour
I just found out! Had to post... :-)
Wishing you all well.
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 12:31:58 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
CT: I must wholly and profoundly advocate for the Zombie. If you have friends in the tropics, cocoa shells, can be had, or consult Bayside for the source of her shells.
But the drink, itself, when made with love, is a real kicker. I had 3 (I think)...definitely the cool drink of the Summer...
ygk
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 12:15:10 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston!
While we're somewhat on the topic of SD related libations...
What is on YOUR SD libation "checklist?"
For me, having turned 21 about a year ago, my checklist is fairly short. I was surprised to see retsina in a liquor store one day, I knew I just had to try it.
It was not smooth, nor was it consumed around someone who kept me safe and warm (in retrospect).
How often do you see, for instance, Kirschwasser? What are your opinions on the wide array of booze that gets mentioned in SD songs?
...Don't me started about the cuervo gold...
-CT
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 12:14:28 ET
Posted by: Girl Margaret, The new digs in Ossining
Lady B - I was thinking of doing Danbury as well, it's not too far from me either! Right now I'm contemplating Danbury (not too far), PNC (lot of great memories over the years) and Jones Beach (some of my fave SD memories). Count me in for a Bachinal - I still have my coconut from 2006!
Speaking of 2006 (four years ago?! Damn!), my god what a fine time that was. Ann, don't forget when I had to cover up my shirt when we met the band! Good times, really looking forward to seeing a lot of you again!
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 11:48:22 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
bassicinstinct,
You are asking much the same questions as I have, regarding BH's little game of "do you hear what I hear?"
If I may summarize Brain's reply, it went something like this: He has a special skill/talent to be able to hear these musical similarities. He seems to believe he is more proficient in this than most. [OK, fine. A bit arrogant perhaps, but it may be true.]
Where it gets weird, IMO, is he believes these perceived similarities reveal a real connection between the songs (other than the connection in his perception). He has stated the later song must be derived from the earlier song, consciously or not. [Of course, when you actually examine these similarities the claim of derivation is almost always laughable, IMO, as there are thousands of similarities as interesting as the ones BH points out. Certainly music, most being composed from a small set of notes and influenced by styles/tempos/etc is going to occasionally reveal similarities.]
I commented some time ago, that what makes BH's quiz so obnoxious is that is presented as a quiz, with what he hears being the correct answer. I suggested he get off his high horse and simply be a member of the community sharing his perceptions, and having a normal discussion of those perceptions. [eg. "Does anyone else hear the similarity between Shakedown Street and Trans Island Skyway? Have you noticed any similarities between other Dead and Dan songs?" Or something to that effect.] I was pleased when Rajah agreed that would be a far more palatable presentation of this kind of material.
I confess I have these kinds of discussion with my friends about music from many different artists. "Do you hear that? It almost sounds as if he started playing songX before taking that tangent..." Of course, none of my friends are egomaniacs and wouldn't begin to infer intent, or even unconscious influence, based on the similarities we hear. In fact, some of those perceived similarities turn out to be idiosyncratic while others are clearly shared by all of us.
But, BH is what he is. Until his recent lack of taste and discretion (with regard to Raj) I simply accepted he was one of many who believe their personal interpretations and experiences are something special and therefore "truth". Now, of course, we know he is a bigger idiot than that.
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 11:41:27 ET
Posted by: steely dan fan, Chicago
Do you think they will play Show Biz Kids with Michael and Don sharing vocals? Its outrageous!
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 11:41:17 ET
Posted by: steely dan fan, Chicago
Do you think they will play Show Biz Kids with Michael and Don sharing vocals? Its outrageous!
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 11:28:17 ET
Posted by: YGK, nyc
Ann! Ah, yes, the memories, like it was yesterday, sorta, if we time travel, right?
I also remember the group shot - posted on my FB fotos - where I am pouring an entire beer on the loverly LWO, an act which has prompted much long distance Angst du Memoir pour her. But hey, that's show biz.
The Bayside Bacchanal is populated with noted Blue Bookers - and even some Yellow folks! - and is the too-chocolate-y icing on the marvelous cake of any Dan-related event. The Bayside's themselves make first class food, and the musical minors in the "B-Gang" are known to frequently state their most popular artist as being Miles Davis (and able to give reasons why). The vibe is completely unique and totaly charming.
If ever anyone has the opportunity to attend a Bacchanal, it is the highest order of business to do so!
---ygk
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 11:10:29 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo
YGK and Lady Bayside:
Many thanks for bringing back those happy memories of Jones Beach 2006, when I met all you guys....I remember well the little shindig and being moved on by the Blue Meanies!! The sun going down and spreading golden rays of light is an image I'll never forget...and eating strawberries dipped in chocolate.....and LBS cracking up at my pronunciation of "strawberries"!! Little things, but they mean so much! Particularly the warm welcome from the Danfans that night was fantastic...and sobbing at the end of the show like a teenager...and being consolled by LWO!... because it was the end of the line for me...last show before the long trek back to Borneo.
So that was something else I crossed off the "list of things to do before I expire", but I hope one day to "Do it Again"!!
Peace
Ann
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 10:55:38 ET
Posted by: Denise, On vacation
Lady B: a Cuban Breeze, perhaps?
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 10:46:32 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Could Be A Laker:
I actually couldn't disagree more with each and every point you make.
We'll just have to agree to differ.
My question was a genuine one with no offence intended. It's tough to see how I could have made that any clearer.
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 10:09:23 ET
Posted by: Lady Bayside, JONES BEACH BOUND, BABY!
Mark, I love you. Thanks for that.
And now, may I announce that I would be happy and proud to help host a tailgate at Jones Beach, my favorite of all venues!
We may still be having Dan-inspired drinks, as I cannot think of any Duke or September related libations. However, I promise good food and plenty of alcohol!
LadyB
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 09:58:11 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, .
LB - the presale password for Jones Beach is TICKETS.
Mark in Boston
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 09:55:55 ET
Posted by: Could be a Laker, Could be Kareem Abdul Jabbar
A lot of Strainers have to do with EMG borrowing from something previously released in the Dan and DF solo discography. EMG is an album I really wanted to like a lot more than I did, but I could never find the words to express why it just never flew for me. When Strainer points out the similarity between, say, Green Book and Teahouse on the Tracks, I say to myself "duh, why did I never pick up on that?" Thanks to Strainer, I think I can finally place my finger on why I don't care for the album; much of what it offers has been used before.
And hasn't it been suggested several times to just scroll on by if something is not to your liking?
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 09:32:17 ET
Posted by: Lady Bayside, The Ether
The zombie, in the cocoa shell, of course. I believe there was even some kirschwasser on hand.
Now, if I knew the password for the presale, I would get some tickets to Jones Beach, and begin way advance preparations for another tailgating extravaganza. Anyone going to the Danbury show? That one's not too far from me either...
LadyB
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 09:28:19 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
Mais bien sыr!
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 09:09:24 ET
Posted by: Lady Bayside, NYC East
Am I allowed to answer that one?
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 08:56:29 ET
Posted by: YGK, nyc
Brian's Life of Jeezus Chrust:
Jones Beach, Steely Dan Show in 2006, in the 34th row, spot 6, the SUV with the back opened facing East, surrounded by 50-some odd Rabid Steely Dan Fans, cranking Dan Tunage to the hilt, being eyed carefully by local PD, hearing much laughter, indulging in significant - if discreet - amounts of Chiba;
What cocktail was served by Lady Bayside?
If anyone actually gets this, you'll get an all expense paid vacation for two, to Lhasa, by Q...
[this is only playfully sardonic, folks - in case the ill-informed don't understand]
ygk
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 08:40:27 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Pete,
Alton Brown is a TV food personality in the US. I have never been a fan of his, and find his over-the-top mugging style offensive. He comes across as talking down to his audience IMO and his style seems more suited to a Childrens program.
But Alton is a renown Dan fan, and for that reason alone I have tried to cut him some slack. He is obviously intelligent and now it seems he probably has good taste, too. (If we can only stop him from mugging on camera.) :#)
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 08:31:36 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Re-post for typo corrrection:
Brain Hemorrhager:
Forgive me for asking, but in what way does your last post consist of anything more than your opinion?
No offence intended but the questions do not seem to me to have correct answers, rather simply answers which happen to accord with your own opinion.
Or am I missing something?
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 08:30:21 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Brain Hemorrhager:
Forgive me for asking, but in what way doea your last post consist of anything more than your opinion?
No offence intended but the questions do not seem to me to have correct answers, rather simply answers which happen to accord with your own opinion.
Or am I missing something?
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 08:25:05 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Notingham UK
Pete:
Astonishing but, as you say, he can't be all bad and, to be fair, it's one hell of a redeeming quality to have!!
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 07:45:01 ET
Posted by: Brain Hemorrhager,
The last Hemorrhager question was:
"Though it had been suspected and connected over the years due to its strong sonic resemblance to a tune that got lots of airplay from one of the "Gratest" live jam bands of all time, discussions over the last two months on the Blue regarding what songs DF will perform for his Levon Helm/Dukes touring activities this year reveal that this Fagen Trilogy tune may indeed have been sonically based upon or derived from that very tune.
Name this tune.
Too much intra-cranial bleeding going on here. There are some very interesting (and close) answers provided, but not the "best" answer. We need a HINT.
HINT: It is generally a good practice to go back chronologically in the discography to the beginning and moving forward of a given body of work, such as a Testament or Trilogy before choosing your response"
Before ever signing on to this site I would never have thought to made a connection between the Dan and the Grateful Dead, and I'm not sure that too many people had. And as has been pointed out, the Blue itself, did in fact "Rise from the Dead". As a result, I now have gotten more into the Dead, in ways I hadn't before when prior to that they were peripheral, and non-centric to the music I listen to.
The recent Blue discussions and the revelation that DF himself will be performing "Shakedown Street" lent strong credence to what was before a fleeting sonic similarity I found in the tune "Trans island Skyway" to that song. The tempo of the verses, the guitar noodling, and the blues/folky aspect to the song being sonically similar. These recent developments, and the chronlogy of the release of these tunes now might lead us to speculate that DF did possibly have "Shakedown" (1978 or so) in mind when he sat down to pen "Trans Island" (circa 1992).
Fast forward to 2004 or 2005 or so, and combine DF's affinity for the Dead, his prior work with "Trans Island Skyway", and work in some R&B funk THEN all of this "Morphs" into the tune "Brite Nitegown" in March of 2006. While no one is certain what is meant by "Morph" (God of Dreams, change in the world??) maybe it means that DF "morphed" some of his prior work into the "Morph the Cat" record. :oD
Key to this Hemorrhager was identifying "Shakedown Street" and connecting it to "Trans Island Skyway". The HINT was to point out that since these sonic "derivations" and similarities run like threads thru the Steely Testaments and DF solo bodies of work, it helps to go tho the earliest releases and work forward when coming up with an answer.
While we don't have a clear winner on this one, there were alot of close answers, and correct identification of "Shakedown" but the "best" answer was provided by the poster "My guess" who has to be awarded one point for choosing "Brite Nitegown", which is very sonically similar and probably based on "Trans island" (blues, folky, jazzy, Dead style), but too R&B "funkily" dissimilar to "Shakedown Street".
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 07:39:47 ET
Posted by: Pete, Manchester
Hello Bassic. Yes, the former Goodie man chose 'Aja' as his all time favourite album in an issue of Mojo magazine a few years ago, so he can't be all bad !!
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 07:32:02 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Pete:
Bill Oddie!!???!!
That's the one and only time I've EVER heard anything remotely positive about the man.
I shall, henceforth, listen to "The Funky Gibbon" in a completely new light!!
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 06:42:55 ET
Posted by: RizkneeneJate, Phakirpara
Good evening
An increasing number of herbs, vitamins http://aztempe.20x.cc/sitemap.html - Any Medication Make Viagra Less Effective and other dietary supplements promoted to enhance memory or the treatment of Alzheimer's disease and related diseases. http://aspects.i8it.net/index.html - Lowest Prices Guaranteed! . Claims of safety and efficacy of these products http://dhost.info/macular/sitemap.html - Generic Viagra - Brief Overview but mainly based on the reflections, traditions and a very small research institutions. Rigorous scientific research through U.S. Food http://viagraxost.luservice.com/sitemap.html - Cvs Viagra Xost and Drug Administration (FDA) approved prescription drugs http://uspharmacy.50webs.com/index.html - Pfizer set up a female sexual dysfunction not prescribed by law dietary supplement marketing.
Bye
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 06:20:49 ET
Posted by: Pete, Manchester
Hello Bassic.
I promise i will never slag Lorraine Kelly off again after hearing your news !Wot a girl !
I know there are loads of others in the UK e.g. Bill Oddie ( dare we mention him ), Andy Peebles I think and of course countless musicians like Joe Jackson,etc.
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 06:20:15 ET
Posted by: Pete, Manchester
Hello Bassic.
I promise i will never slag Lorraine Kelly off again after hearing your news !Wot a girl !
I know there are loads of others in the UK e.g. Bill Oddie ( dare we mention him ), Andy Peebles I think and of course countless musicians like Joe Jackson,etc.
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 06:19:57 ET
Posted by: Pete, Manchester
Hello Bassic.
I promise i will never slag Lorraine Kelly off again after hearing your news !Wot a girl !
I know there are loads of others in the UK e.g. Bill Oddie ( dare we mention him ), Andy Peebles I think and of course countless musicians like Joe Jackson,etc.
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 06:19:41 ET
Posted by: Pete, Manchester
Hello Bassic.
I promise i will never slag Lorraine Kelly off again after hearing your news !Wot a girl !
I know there are loads of others in the UK e.g. Bill Oddie ( dare we mention him ), Andy Peebles I think and of course countless musicians like Joe Jackson,etc.
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 05:27:17 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Pete:
To your "presenters" list, you can add:
Noel Edmonds (he used to play Dan tracks every Sunday on his BBC Radio morning show)
Lorraine Kelly (bid fan of the band and champion of UK based Dan tributes)
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 05:13:02 ET
Posted by: Pete, Manchester UK
Guys and Girls,
Not sure if you've had such a post before but wondered if it was worth starting what I call a 'friends of the Dan' thread ? I.e. famous or not so famous people around the world who are confirmed Dan fans !
So in the UK;
Presenters Danny Baker, Nicky Campbell, Bob Harris, Dave Lee Travis, James Stannage ( Manchester local radio )
Musicians: Too numerous to mention !
I would be delighted to hear of any you guys know so I can add them to the list !
Looking forward to anything new in next twelve months and possibly a visit to the UK from the Dan.
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 05:12:32 ET
Posted by: Pete, Manchester UK
Guys and Girls,
Not sure if you've had such a post before but wondered if it was worth starting what I call a 'friends of the Dan' thread ? I.e. famous or not so famous people around the world who are confirmed Dan fans !
So in the UK;
Presenters Danny Baker, Nicky Campbell, Bob Harris, Dave Lee Travis, James Stannage ( Manchester local radio )
Musicians: Too numerous to mention !
I would be delighted to hear of any you guys know so I can add them to the list !
Looking forward to anything new in next twelve months and possibly a visit to the UK from the Dan.
Date: Fri, June 18, 2010, 01:48:03 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
The Dean:
Well said!!
I have often been truly astonished that people have continued to get involved with BH's self serving puerile banalities.
Date: Thurs, June 17, 2010, 19:32:54 ET
Posted by: Joe, In driving distance of a few venus
Hi fans. Before I decide which show(s) to attend, does anybody know if more dates will be added? The schedule for the 2nd half of September is a little sparse.
Date: Thurs, June 17, 2010, 19:18:04 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour
geo, I think YGK is right when he says it isn't in Hoops' nature to ban someone. And you are correct when you point out that, despite that nature, he has decided NYB is too detrimental to the community to leave alone.
Up until his recent horribly tasteless and classless remarks, BH's biggest issue has been his overblown ego. I'm sure many of us hear similarities between Dan songs and other songs (from Don/Walt and also from unrelated artists). I hear similarities all the time. I also hear similarities in many artists' songs, from Coltrane to Leonard Cohen. I just don't assume those similarities are anything out of the ordinary, or that my experience of those similarities is anything unusual.
Fortunately, most of us are humble enough to understand our experience isn't anything special, or perhaps I should say, superior. But mostly we don't have such an inflated sense of self, that we assume our observations reveal an obvious purpose in those similarities we experience. Only a very shallow, and inexperienced person would assume a perceived similarity between songs means the second song was DERIVED from the first. That is so simplistic and naive, I find it hard to believe any SD fan can accept it as truth.
That smug sense of superiority became clear in BH's recent post in which, he not only disparaged the memory of Rajah, he actually positioned his "question" and asked us to "stay tuned for that question". How big of a d-bag do you have to be to engage in that sort of posturing>?
Date: Thurs, June 17, 2010, 17:07:48 ET
Posted by: geo,
YGK- "not in his nature"? I got three words for that. New York Bill!
Fagen said that he'll be playing songs from all three of his solo records. He'll also be doing some classic R&B/Soul tunes. AND (drum roll please) SHAKEDOWN STREET by the Grateful Dead! Yeah baby!!
Date: Thurs, June 17, 2010, 10:48:27 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo
Tangential Dr.Wu article (you have to scroll down quite a bit) but the content will probably be of interested to the male majority of the Blue, who are of a "certain age":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/10338355.stm
:-)
Date: Thurs, June 17, 2010, 10:07:43 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc
geo - not in his nature, but I think there's a case for BH being cryptic and Spam-like, and therefore, Non-DanGential...
HEY EVERYBODY, Donald's Touring this Fall!!! How about that?!?!
What do you think those boys will play?
tawk amonkst y'selfs...
ygk
Date: Thurs, June 17, 2010, 09:46:45 ET
Posted by: geo,
Hey Hoops- Can you block this douche bags(Brain Hemorrhager)IP?
Date: Thurs, June 17, 2010, 06:39:27 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
BH:
It is not we who are witless, I can assure you!!
Date: Thurs, June 17, 2010, 01:54:25 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu
It's not even real SD Trivia Brain.
It's just you own fever ramblings.
Like when Wesley Willis used to go
off his meds.
The bar is closed.
Date: Thurs, June 17, 2010, 01:13:01 ET
Posted by: Brain Hemorrhager,
The last Hemorrhager question was:
"Though it had been suspected and connected over the years due to its strong sonic resemblance to a tune that got lots of airplay from one of the "Gratest" live jam bands of all time, discussions over the last two months on the Blue regarding what songs DF will perform for his Levon Helm/Dukes touring activities this year reveal that this Fagen Trilogy tune may indeed have been sonically based upon or derived from that very tune.
Name this tune."
Too much intra-cranial bleeding going on here. There are some very interesting (and close) answers provided, but not the "best" answer. We need a HINT.
HINT: It is generally a good practice to go back chronologically in the discography to the beginning and moving forward of a given body of work, such as a Testament or Trilogy before choosing your response.
As it stands, there could be two winners and MULTIPLE points awarded on this Hemorrhager. And the outcome now promises to be interesting if not shocking.
Date: Thurs, June 17, 2010, 00:36:12 ET
Posted by: Brain Hemorrhager,
Yeah, the comment about Rajah was ill timed, to some tasteless and the irony/humour repulsive to some who are witless. Many on the Blue offered lyrics to songs as an homage to Raj (hey that rhymes!). I offer this ORIGINAL composition as the Groovessential Facts, and will leave it at that. RIP Raj. And "et tu", Lurker Ray:
Rajah was indeed a major Steely Bro'
An inspirer, like no other, Rajah made the Blue go
So lest we not ourselves delude
And piss and bitch and moan
Rajah threw quite a few flames of his own
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 22:44:13 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu
I like it Kenny!
And yes Brain, you are a
total waste of Blue douche.
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 19:14:13 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,
Brain, your comments about Rajah were truly tasteless. Even though Rajah had a wicked sense of humor, he would never have the heart to post something like that about a fallen member of our community. Shame on you.
G
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 18:52:44 ET
Posted by: Kenny, US
The 'Who made Traffic interesting?' tour.
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 18:31:26 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour
Very impressive Ray. But I might suggest you have WAY too much time on your hands.
Well done, nonetheless!
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 17:31:24 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu
STEVE WINWOOD & STEELY DAN - NAME THAT TOUR
Low Spark of High-Healed Sneakers Tour
Pearly Queen Of The Quarter Tour
Arc Of The Funky Driver Tour
Can't Find My Home At Last Tour or
I Can't Find My All Too Mobile Home Tour
Dear Mr Sam Tour
Paper Sun Mountain Tour
Finer Things Tour
Medicated Gaucho Tour
High Roll With It Tour
I'm A Third World Man Tour
Valerie & Josie - The Babylon Sisters Tour
Shanghai Confidential Noodle Factory Tour
Shoot Out At My Old School Tour
Turn Up The Eagles Flies Tour
BP Freedom Overspill Tour
Bright Lights, Different Light Tour
Back In The High Life Do It Again Tour
While You See A Chance, Get Along Kid Charlemagne Tour
John Barleycorn Must Surf And Or Die Tour
No We Can't Spanish Dance Together Tour
Vacant Greasy Chair Tour
I Know I'll Love You Higher Tour
Withering Banyan Tree Tour
Glad Sneakers Tour
Frozen Rainmaker Tour
He's A One Way Freedom Rider Tour
Gimme Some Funked Up Music Tour
Were You Blind Faith That Day? Tour
Naked Girl With The Airplane Needs A Steely Dan T-Shirt Tour
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 13:13:04 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston!
Tsk tsk on that second to last post, Brain. RIP Rajah.
PS do we get any sort of clue as to what Dead song is being discussed?
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 12:37:36 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Ron, thanks for the info. And thanks to the next poster for supplying some evidence. Interesting.
And, Sooner or Later, that was hysterical. But I'm pretty sure Ricardo never sang Volare on a TV ad. I don't think he even sang Lebaron. But I imagine his singing voice sounds like rich Corinthian leather.
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 12:32:33 ET
Posted by: He's, Right
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/music/news/e3if1f91938829dabcc69d96e2c231636d9
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 12:25:21 ET
Posted by: ron,
steve winwood to maybe tour with steely dan in australia
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 12:19:54 ET
Posted by: Sooner or later, I'll be right
Volare, as sung by Ricardo Montalban in those 1980's Chrysler commercials.
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 11:54:18 ET
Posted by: I'm Right, wherever I need to be
Morph The Cat.
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 10:54:40 ET
Posted by: CRIMSONTIDE, Harrisburg,PA
First time caller long time listener: I am sure to be wrong
but have to jump in the pool sometime!!! shakedown street &
new frontier????
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 09:58:29 ET
Posted by: geek police, UK
Brain Hemorrhager,in the UK we would call you an 'anorak' - an item of clothing so uncool as to only be seen on nerds, geeks, trekkies etc. Your particular form of mild autism can be intellectually entertaining, but your last post reminds us all that autism has at it's root the inability to comprehend the feelings of others.
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 08:09:53 ET
Posted by: My Guess, east
Brite Nitegown.
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 07:16:13 ET
Posted by: Brain Hemorrhager---Revised,
Though it had been suspected and connected over the years due to its strong sonic resemblance to a tune that got lots of airplay from one of the "Gratest" live jam bands of all time, discussions over the last two montha on the Blue regarding what songs DF will perform for his Levon Helm/Dukes touring activities this year reveal that this Fagen Trilogy tune may indeed have sonically based upon or derived from that very tune.
Name this tune.
Difficulty level is about 8.2 out of 10.
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 06:58:08 ET
Posted by: Brain Hemorrrhager,
Though it had been suspected and connected over the years due to its strong sonic resemblance to a tune that got lots of airplay from one of the "Gratest" live jam bands of all time, discussions over the last few weeks on the Blue regarding DF's upcoming tour reveal that this Fagen Trilogy tune may indeed have sonically based upon or derived from that very tune.
Name this tune.
Difficulty level is about 8.2 out of 10.
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 05:24:58 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
The Dean:
Hear hear!!
Shameful!!
Date: Wed, June 16, 2010, 03:31:35 ET
Posted by: D MacFadden, Yay Area
I just wanted to note for any interested parties in the Bay Area that the Dukes Of September's Golden Gate tour stop seems to correspond with the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival. That's right, free show! And no one checking your cooler.
Date: Tues, June 15, 2010, 23:31:29 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Wow, BH. That last post of yours was not only pointless, but tasteless as well.
Date: Tues, June 15, 2010, 22:09:34 ET
Posted by: Brain Hemorrhager,
Recently, what with all of some major figures in the entertainment world either being impaired (Bret Michaels of Poison) or, in some cases, being taken out entirely (little Gary Coleman, who certainly did not have "Different" Stroke) by Brain Hemorrhages, the posting of the next "Hemorrhager" is in order. Wouldn't you say? Oh, and lest we not forget RAJAH (RIP bro'). In retrospect, it was probably a good thing Rajah did not attempt to solve too many of these Hemorrhagers in the past. Consider this: if Rajah had Strained and struggled with a particularly tough one over the past few years, who only knows what that MIGHT have portended? Come to think of it, though, was not the last Hemorrhager question posted around about that time of Rajah's passing? Hmmmmmm...
Anyway, to give the British Isles, the Continent (READ:Jazz Assassin) and all points eastward a fighting chance timewise, but at the same time give all a chance to prepare, all we can say at this time is that tonight's Hemorrhager involves the Fagen Trilogy and one of the "Gratest" all-time jam bands in Rock History.
And stay tuned.
Date: Tues, June 15, 2010, 22:05:18 ET
Posted by: T.O. Danfan, G20 Ville
According to olympiaentertainment.com the band for the Fox show consists of: Jon Herington, Freddie Washington, Michael White, Michael Leonhart, Walt Weiskopf, Jay Collins, Jim Beard, with the lovely Carolyn Escoffery and Catherine Russel singing back-up.
Practically the Dan band wouldn't you say? Should be a great show.
Definitely worth the drive from T.O.
Date: Tues, June 15, 2010, 21:25:15 ET
Posted by: ccw, dc
anyone know anything about the belmont country club's capacity? I went to the Loudoun summer music fest website, and it sounds like Gold Circle is pretty small (a few hundred) seated area, and the rest is general admission lawn seating, but it sounds a lot smaller than Wolftrap or Merriwether Post.
Date: Tues, June 15, 2010, 16:34:59 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, ohio
Hey Jazz/ no; no ; no; no I dont smoke it no more' Im tired of waking up on the floor. [Ringo circa 1970s] But if it would make you and our friend Walt comfy be my guest. Maybe Walt would also bring some of those tasty cookies he offered the Hall of Fame way back when!! I will stick to the imported beer because someone will have to tune our instruments and cue us to the show on time. However that Imported beer does wet my appetite so Walt can bring cookies for me also.
Date: Tues, June 15, 2010, 16:28:15 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Flamingo Park?
http://www.donaldfagen.com/features/FlamingoPark.html
Date: Tues, June 15, 2010, 15:38:15 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London
Just replayed a tape I made of a short (half-hour) but entertaining BBC Radio 4 prog on SD from last year - the two central contributors being Brian Sweet and UK rock journo David Hepworth, a pretty clued-up writer, and founder of 'Q' magazine among others. Interesting that Sweet is merely the 'facts' guy, with virtually no interpretive input, while Hepworth, who is clearly a fan of the band, throws in a lot of good opinion and conjectural stuff.
As an illustration : "A Steely Dan song doesn't start at the beginning and go towards a resolution at the end - very often, like the best short stories, it throws you in at the middle - it's already started. Through the music you gain further familiarity, certain lines kind-of come into focus, and you might over a period of time piece together some sort of narrative."
And one of his more contentious (perhaps) viewpoints : "One thing to bear in mind with Steely Dan is that this is 'blokes' music. It's the product of a relationship between two men and I think that Steely Dan's music - though I'm not suggesting that there aren't women who really like it - it's a nod and a wink to 'guys'. It deals with the kind of strange inner life of men - it's very strong on nostalgia, which I think is a largely male thing, and it's full of little references that you can go and look up afterwards, which appeals enormously to men."
Date: Tues, June 15, 2010, 11:47:15 ET
Posted by: ascap across the pond, London
Interesting...I know that both Walter and Donald were invited to the Jazz Legend induction in NY this week with my understanding, anyway, that "Steely Dan" (both Don and Walt) were to be inducted. The new press release suggests if you don't show up for the cocktail party, you don't get inducted? I shall sniff around on my end but anyone who can shed some light on this process I'd be interested to hear it.
Go UK! :-)
Date: Tues, June 15, 2010, 06:21:31 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, awaiting confirmation
Klaus, that's an interesting proposal.
As long as the jam session will be strictly informal, of course. I have no reason to believe that Walter wouldn't know when to carpe the diem, and the unavoidable demolition of whatever Detroit hotel we may choose for our meeting in September is therefore to be considered as done in advance.
You'll book the room, Klaus. Walter supplies the imported beer, and I'll roll whatever needs to be rolled. Jumbo size leaves.
Bring your bass as well, Walter. At a certain point we may want some Jamaican backbeat. Strictly informal, though.
Seeya.
Date: Tues, June 15, 2010, 01:14:25 ET
Posted by: Steely Dan, Malibu - A little "Shakedown Street" roller tonight
A "summer" tour of Australia?
I guess they will be "Album Nights"
again? Should be interesting.
EVEN more interesting I thought
was a VERY coy Donald Fagen not
ruling out that Walter would "not"
be a late addition to the Dukes
Tour like he was in 1992 -
"Steely Dan is currently off duty until a November tour of Australia, but Becker was a late addition to the 1992 Rock and Soul Revue tour. Would he do it again for the Rhythm Revue? "He hasn't mentioned it yet," says Fagen, who's currently working on his next solo album. "I think he wanted to take the summer off. I know he's working on some material of his own, but you never know with him. You can't pin him down."
I also like -
"Fagen is planning a rendition of the Grateful Dead's "Shakedown Street" as well as material from his three solo albums."
So Don is going to be doing covers and material from his three solo albums. Walter sang the Butterfield Blues Band's "Mary, Mary" in 1992. Wouldn't that be something if Walter came onboard and graced us with a Circus Money track!
But hey, what am I thinking. Anyone who thinks Becker and/or Fagen will be doing any kind of touring this year is delusional. Not to mention doing any kind of Steely Dan/Fagen material.
Pass the salt.
Date: Tues, June 15, 2010, 01:11:43 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago
There have been two or three editions of the Dandom Digest in the past 80 hours or so, depending on what letter your email address starts with.
One was sent out Friday evening (Chicago Time) and covered May 24-June11, 2010. If you are a subscriber, you should have this already in your email box.
Another was sent out in the past 30 minutes; however, some of you will receive both a first edition and then--STOP THE PROVERBIAL PRESSES--a revised edition to include word of a November SD tour down under. (Many Thanks, AUSSIE!) The most recent edition(s) of the Dandom Digest covers June 12-14, 2010. You should have this in your email in box in the next few hours, if you don't already. One addition that I haven't seen posted here yet on the BlueBook is an item passed along by Pete Fogel about Donald Fagen (along with Phil Woods) being posted to the ASCAP Jazz Wall of Fame.
If you are not currently a subscriber but would like to receive the free Dandom Digest email newsletter—definitely not to be confused or affilliated with the glorious (and much more glamorous) Official steelydan.com, walterbecker.com and donaldfagen.com newsletters/mail lists—please email me or see http://dandom.com/dandomdigest
Thanks as always for your support, especially Mark, Bill and John, and of course, Pete & Shari.
Jim
Date: Tues, June 15, 2010, 00:58:01 ET
Posted by: bobbo, "Oh, no."
Nasty, spiteful Blue this Summer's eve--say it ain't true. I'm wont to road-trip solo, on occasion, and the best ones are the ones with the "inner" family there for a Dan show: GM, hoops, Hat2Flat, the Little Wild One, Mr. Howell...
I had occasion, at Chumash, to kidnap a true LEGEND of the Blue, a wizard and shaman, the "genuine article" of wonderful, fading hipsters ANYWHERE, our Rajah, for a while, for a drunken, philosophy-and-red-wine-driven ride through the misty landscape of the Santa Ynez Valley that evening--er, morning, and to observe his mannerisms, grace and style, and overall approach...but only for a short while.
We've only spoken via online messages and unpublished entrieties here and there since; but I did not fail to miss the obvious and unchangeable matter of his importance, or vice/versa: my God, I can't imagine how anyone stood any more than a "casual" acquaintence with the great man and Perfect Conversationalist who was our Rajah. I held him as a hero, his words on this world as a slowly building tome on "how to be COOL," his passing as a dear, dear loss.
Fuck, I was about to let go of the religion again, but...I hope there's something out there for us, maybe. I mean, can you imagine? That kind of guy, just...no longer here, there, or anywhere?
Neither can I. But just in case, I hope he wasn't pissed everytime I called him "Wally." I don't think the reference was lost on him or us, but...I don't think I'd be the same man today without having known him, just a little. It's a sad thing, and...well, unfathomable for me, now. "Whattayamean, gone?!" Just like that.
Like something Beaver Cleaver would say. Rajah, I loved you, brother. Please be there when I get there, okay? I'd be scared to do it without you, man. Amen.
Okay.
Date: Tues, June 15, 2010, 00:10:25 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beachn
Aussie,
Very interesting. Thanks
Date: Tues, June 15, 2010, 00:03:55 ET
Posted by: AUSSIE, TKY
SD has an Australia Tour in November????
http://www.billboard.com/events/fagen-mcdonald-scaggs-join-forces-for-rhythm-1004097970.story
Steely Dan is currently off duty until a November tour of Australia, but Becker was a late addition to the 1992 Rock and Soul Revue tour.
Date: Mon, June 14, 2010, 22:00:43 ET
Posted by: Dave, NJ
Michael McDonald's website is updated with the Dukes dates. It also explains why there is break after the 18th. MM has solo dates in Nashville from the 23rd to 25th.
Date: Mon, June 14, 2010, 21:05:35 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
JJ,
I suppose only you know what you meant, but it sounds like backtracking to me. Why?
On April 13th I posted this:
Date: Wed, April 14, 2010, 19:55:07 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour
While I'm no fan of unknown posters hinting at new releases or tours w/any backup, Lewis simply posted "Keep your August/Sept free". He didn't say Steely Dan was touring in August and September.
Does anyone think Walter or Don might do a small tour, and do it without Carlock on Drums? That wouldn't surprise me at all. Actually, any long time fan shouldn't be shocked if the Dan went on tour w/o Keith
AND, before you posted your remark on April the 15th, Doc Mu had THIS to say:
Date: Thurs, April 15, 2010, 01:38:23 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu , Yellow Peril
The Dean - you are correct
It looks like a NYR&S type tour this summer:
http://www.bostonherald.com/entertainment/music/general/view/20100415catherine_russell_sings_praises_of_inspiring_duo_-_her_parents/srvc=home&position=also
Your response came shortly after that last post. You clearly dismissed the idea that Fagen would be touring at all. And, for the record, I GUARANTEE the Dukes will play some Steely Dan and Fagen tunes.
I'm not sure which is worse: Your attack on Lewis and your insistence there would not be "ANY kind of touring this years [sic]", or your refusal to take responsibility for your misinformation and personal attack. Total lack of integrity, IMO.
Date: Mon, June 14, 2010, 20:57:13 ET
Posted by: Sour Grapes, alert
JJ -
Take your lumps like a man. Your earlier post speaks for itself and doesn't need your crawfishing explanation now. You said what you meant at the time - you swung and you missed.
Date: Mon, June 14, 2010, 18:53:30 ET
Posted by: JJ,
Nice try Lurker Ray- I meant Steely Dan/Fagen material. Oh, and by the way...Roseland was 100 x better than Sobobba!
Date: Mon, June 14, 2010, 17:42:03 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu
Thanks for the tour info!
So it looks like we will
GET HIM TO THE GREEK, but
the date is now Sept 29.
It appears that the tour will
take a break after Sept 18.
Big thank you to Lewis from
Mclaren who first scooped us on
the upcoming tour way back on
April 13 -
Date: Tues, April 13, 2010, 09:36:26 ET
Posted by: Lewis, Shanghai
"Keep your August/Sept free"
Hey JJ & Hank - How does that
"crow" taste? A bit "gamey" huh?
Date: Thurs, April 15, 2010, 17:19:26 ET
Posted by: JJ,
"Doc Mu & everybody else that think Becker and/or Fagen will be doing any kind of touring this years is delusional."
Date: Tues, April 13, 2010, 15:32:52 ET
Posted by: Hank,
"Lewis- Stop spreading rumors. Nothing is happening this year. Oh, and did you hear that Keith Carlock is on the road with John Mayer for the next six months?"
Date: Mon, June 14, 2010, 17:10:29 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, ohio
Sep 8/ The great Donald Fagen? I am so there. What the hell does Wally do all alone when The Donald is out w/ other musicians? If you are reading this Walter I would be more than willing to let you tag along to Detroit in Sep. I even know some good restaurants in the area and would love to take you to them![dutch of course] Perhaps you could bring your nice new Sig model Sadowsky and we can invite Jazzassin for an informal Jam session in my hotel room. Just sayin. Contact me thru Hoops if your interested and please bring plenty of beer [ the expensive imported kind] cause we might as well do it up right.
Date: Mon, June 14, 2010, 17:07:11 ET
Posted by: Ben, Indy
I'm getting excited about a Saturday night with the Dukes, an awesome band, and my beautiful babe who'll be getting a crash course on blue-eyed soul. I called the Chicago Theatre because the site didn't mention it, and tickets go on sale this Saturday at noon (CST) and are $50, 75, and 125.
When's Sir Walter going to hit the road with a solo tour?
Anyone shelling out for The Wall?
Date: Mon, June 14, 2010, 15:41:33 ET
Posted by: show info, FYI
re: The Aug 20 Borgata show. The press release doesn't say which of the two Borgata venues they are playing. But Rob Thomas is playing at their Music Box venue that night so The Dukes must have the Event Center. This wasn't a given as last year Boz & MM played the Music Box.
Date: Mon, June 14, 2010, 14:12:48 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Tour Plotter,
Thanks
You da plotter.
Date: Mon, June 14, 2010, 14:10:43 ET
Posted by: Tour Plotter, TP
Additional dates not listed on DF's site.
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/The-Dukes-Donald-Fagen-Michael-McDonald-Boz-Scaggs-Unite-for-Nationwide-Tour-1275682.htm
Date: Mon, June 14, 2010, 11:42:48 ET
Posted by: Tour Plotter, TP
http://donaldfagen.com/tour.php
Date: Mon, June 14, 2010, 11:22:31 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Pixeleen - Honestly it's been years since I went to a show at Innsbrook. I know that they have something called the "golden circle" which is right up front with some chairs I believe. I think you can only get those tickets online perhaps at the Insbrook After Hours website or a link from there. It's an outdoor venue so you stand if you get general admission tickets.
One thing I've been told more than once is that parking is a nightmare. I'd advise getting there early as possible.
As we get closer to the show we can make plans to meet at the soundboard or something and say hello. My guess is that there'll be more than two bluebookers there!
Date: Mon, June 14, 2010, 10:39:41 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, impatient
It is Monday by my calendar. Any one with breaking news, please post!
Date: Mon, June 14, 2010, 03:42:03 ET
Posted by: ps2, Sun Mountain
http://www.screened.com/the-a-team-preview-clip-1/128-117/
before you watch this clip, you best read the 2 previous posts...
Date: Sun, June 13, 2010, 13:39:26 ET
Posted by: ps, Sun Mountain
http://www.blogtasticvoyage.ca/2010/06/abcs-of-the-ateam.html
this guy reviews the movie in alphabetic manner and with the S he describes my first thought exactly :-)
Date: Sun, June 13, 2010, 13:33:25 ET
Posted by: Gina/Mizar6, Sun Mountain
http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/movies/article/821333--a-team-three-stars-for-80s-tv-show-remake
if I don't post it here, it will stay in my head the rest of this (european) evening and yes, it is awfully Steely Dan tangential.
was at my parents and zapping through various channels. I live in French Belgium and the Netherlands have a lot of commercial stations and networks we don't have. so I was just zapping away until there was the Letterman show. oh, ok, let's just watch this guy and see what gives...
he had a Jessica Biel as a guest, no clue who she is but apparently she is starring in a movie remake of The A-Team. now that rings a few bells, because I watched it a lot in the 80s. violence and stunts but no matter how many times a car turned over, upside down and off a cliff, the people inside always got up, covered in dust, coughing and whatnot before an A-Team member grabbed them by the balls. h i l a r i o u s and just great for smaller kids to watch!
anyway, they showed a clip from the movie in which this Jessica/Sosa meets "Face" and they have some romantic history between them. couldn't help but grin when they discussed old times and this Face person asked the grrl if or why she took the Steely Dan album they played over and over and over whilst enjoying a bottle of Cabernet Sauvignon :-)
h i l a r i o u s!
so I went looking for some info and came up with the link above...
there is also another SD reference:
---Brian Bloom is Pike, leader of a black ops group Smith derisively calls not just cartoons, but also “assassins in Polo shirts.”
Pike gives the picture a genuine sense of menace, something it would otherwise be lacking in a story that uses airbags, toy dolls and a Steely Dan tune amongst its many improvised weapons of mass distraction.---
now I also went looking for the Steely tune mentioned and found this in another review:
http://www.daveonfilm.com/review-the-a-team-9467.html
"In the end, how seriously can you take an action film where the signature quotes are "I love it when a plan comes together" and "overkill is underrated" and where Sosa's ringtone for calls from Face is Steely Dan's Can't Buy A Thrill? Is The A-Team entertaining? Yes. Is it a flawed movie with an incomprehensible storyline and massive suspension of disbelief required? Definitely. Is it worth seeing? I liked it!"
oh. is CBAT a song too?
so this says it's Reelin' In The Years, of course...
http://reelsoundtrack.wordpress.com/2010/06/13/a-team-soundtrack/
now I got this out of my system, i hope i can return to 'normal' without any Steely nor Dan haunting me!
cheers!
Date: Sun, June 13, 2010, 11:06:42 ET
Posted by: pixeleen,
Hutch:
Haven't ever been to a concert at Innsbrook. Do you have any tips / suggestions about good seating locations, etc??
Appreciate any info.
Maybe we can meet-up there......
Thanks.
Date: Sun, June 13, 2010, 10:35:25 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Wu-Way
The Wu is True, Klaus.
Excellent choice for a Sunday morning.
Date: Sun, June 13, 2010, 08:09:19 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, ohio
Good lord/ listening to Dr wu this morning' no wonder it is the holy grail of Dan songs!! If this was all they ever recorded I would still be a fan. Donald is a fucking master! No wonder we join this forum. Viva la Dan and Viva the great Rajah
Date: Sat, June 12, 2010, 21:57:09 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu
BOSTON DUKES OF SEPTEMBER SHOW CONFIRMED
AT THE WANG AUGUST 31.
I guess this is the official artwork:
http://www.citicenter.org/shows/lists/details.php?showID=531
Date: Sat, June 12, 2010, 17:37:24 ET
Posted by: Jamie, San Diego
Raj passing- RIP sir. Your work here will be missed and I was suprised as anyone that is a non-regular that his passing stopped me in my tracks. That, my friends both real and imagined, is a true cyber impact. Most of been a great man. Someone mentioned a daughter- to his children I offer the following words by Robert Hunter, music by Phil Lesh. (The song conveys Phil's emotions for his deceased father.)
Look out of any window
any morning, any evening, any day
Maybe the sun is shining
birds are winging or
rain is falling from a heavy sky -
What do you want me to do,
to do for you to see you through?
this is all a dream we dreamed
one afternoon long ago
Walk out of any doorway
feel your way, feel your way
like the day before
Maybe you'll find direction
around some corner
where it's been waiting to meet you -
What do you want me to do,
to watch for you while you're sleeping?
Well please don't be surprised
when you find me dreaming too
Look into any eyes
you find by you, you can see
clear through to another day
I know it's been seen before
through other eyes on other days
while going home --
What do you want me to do,
to do for you to see you through?
It's all a dream we dreamed
one afternoon long ago
Walk into splintered sunlight
Inch your way through dead dreams
to another land
Maybe you're tired and broken
Your tongue is twisted
with words half spoken
and thoughts unclear
What do you want me to do
to do for you to see you through
A box of rain will ease the pain
and love will see you through
Just a box of rain -
wind and water -
Believe it if you need it,
if you don't just pass it on
Sun and shower -
Wind and rain -
in and out the window
like a moth before a flame
It's just a box of rain
I don't know who put it there
Believe it if you need it
or leave it if you dare
But it's just a box of rain
or a ribbon for your hair
Such a long long time to be gone
and a short time to be there
Date: Sat, June 12, 2010, 15:26:28 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, ohio
Dean/ I thought about trying to be clever and then thought fuck that/ I am what I am and thats all that I am. Dont know if that is 72 Bugs Bunny or Anytime Donald Fagen. What a day I wish Raj was here to help us out of this shit. I know I am a little tedious these days but these are the good old days!! carlysimon.com
Date: Sat, June 12, 2010, 11:04:51 ET
Posted by: Brutus Charisma,
"DF is cynical about every damn thing under the sun".
Why is that?
It is mainly Because he came from an (upper) '50s middle-class family setting and was shown a great deal of love, affection and attention, especially by his mom. To eventually have to face life's realities/disasters (minor or major), was incredibly anxiety-provoking for him.
So, to not appear emasculated or vulnerable, he did/has done what most all hyper-sensitive intelligent men (yes, men specifically) do: he presents(has presented) a cool/other-worldly facade whom speaks mainly in the third person as an innocent bystander.
You had to know DF behind the steely facade to know how really vulnerable and inherently kind a person he was and is.
BC
Date: Sat, June 12, 2010, 10:18:28 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach
Klaus, I'm with you. I buy most of the "according to" account, but that last paragraph is total speculation and it doesn't ring true to me.
One thing I notice about those who wax nostalgic about the 50's:
Most are Christian
Most are Men
Just about all are White.
Date: Sat, June 12, 2010, 10:10:56 ET
Posted by: billy, shake spear
good info about don's cd, but geez - that guy gets paid to be a writer? was that his 5th grade writing assignment?
bob o pedic
Date: Sat, June 12, 2010, 08:02:04 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, ohio
According to DF/ I dont think Donald would agree about the majesty of the fifties' If anything he detested that sameness and saner world for the lack of a better term. I was born in 59 so I dont remember the decade but I think it would have suited me fine. Donald is cynical about every damn thing under the sun but that is why we love him. No Diss/ I enjoyed your post/ just thought I would add my two piasters.
Date: Fri, June 11, 2010, 21:29:16 ET
Posted by: according to DF,
Nightfly is DF's Adolescence, looking toward the future from 1950's perspective. IGY is hopeful if you take the 1958 view, the album's theme But it is a bitterly sardonic song when viewed from the "present" day, written 25 years later when it takes on a "Where did we go wrong--it didn't turn out the way it was supposed to", and actually things are much shittier than projected during DF's hopeful, innocent youth.
Kama is midlife, maybe 25 to 45 years of age, DF coming of age via those romances, travels and travails. But he ends up in Flytown, sort of at a crossroads, midlife decision point sort of thing. DF has arrived at what he turned out to be. If you are indeed successful or are a Fck-up at age 45 to 50, chances are slim that you will not change very much for the remaining years you will have. You are what you were destined to become.
Morph--IS present day in its assessment of early Millenial life, but forward looking towards Death. Morph could be named for Morpheus, the God of Dreams, or possibly to Morph or change. But the strong underlying theme, and DF is quoted several times on this--is the end of life, looking toward death. DF said that his mom died recently while he ws developing the Morph concept, he was nearing age 60 and a dose of mortality snuck up on him. With few detours of the nine Morph cuts, Mona (suicide), Brite Nitegown (grim reaper) highlight a parade of songs of doom and gloom, dying romance, the end of days, a dead band (H-gang), even the Ghost of Ray Charles in What I Do. Even though DF says a death theme, a seocndary corollary in Morph is sort of like the IGY theme, a pejorative look at how Fcked things are today, out of control government (Mary), 911 theme (Mona), psycho moms in Pagoda(paranoid overparenting). Security Joan might be the only bright spot, but if you peel that onion, there is probably something sinister under there. But Security Joan is more at the absurdity and the false sense of security that is created by airport security, which again ties in with the secondary corollary.
DF might be looking at Death during Morph, but you kind of get the feeling that things are so Fck-ed up from the way DF grew up that he will depart this Fck-ed up world knowing things probably won't get much better, its downhill from here on out, he won't be around to have to deal with the bullshit. And, that he lived during the best times, overall, in the history of the world, since the 1950's are fairly universally viewed with an affection and wistfulness not accorded to any other decade. Which will make it easier for him to let go and die a peaceful, contented death, no longer having to face the growing absurdities and intrusions he attacks on Morph that get worse as time passes.
Date: Fri, June 11, 2010, 21:27:43 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo
Hi Dandom,
I've just received the latest Dandom Digest and the sad news of Rajah's passing. Words don't come easy. As well as being a great loss to his family and friends, I'm sure he will be sadly missed around here. His literary skills and out-of-the-box take on things added a certain richness to the Blue. But his love of the mighty Dan is what drew him and all of us together. He had an infinite passion for their music. Rock on Raj in Steely heaven!
Ann
Brunei
Date: Fri, June 11, 2010, 20:30:27 ET
Posted by: Tour Plotter, TP
This website lists the venue for the Aug 19 show mentioned in the article as being Ive's Concert Park.
http://www.musiclens.com/upcomingconcerts.html
Date: Fri, June 11, 2010, 20:26:58 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Pixeleen - I'm still in shock. I used to have daydreams about Steely Dan playing at the Landmark Theatre one day. Fagen performing at Innsbrook is totally off the wall.
Can't wait.
Date: Fri, June 11, 2010, 16:05:18 ET
Posted by: Bill from Pgh,
Huh? Kama was futuristic, Morph was present day.
>"Those albums were a trilogy," Fagen said, noting his first solo record was themed around the 1950s, the second about the current day and his third was futuristic
Date: Fri, June 11, 2010, 15:19:03 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu, not through with Buzz
http://www.postchronicle.com/news/entertainment/article_212306806.shtml
"This one does not have a theme but they are good stories -- most of my songs have a plot," he said. "The album, or CD, or whatever they call it these days should be out next year."
Fagen said the as-yet untitled album is being recorded on computer using Pro Tools software. Some overdubs have been done at New York's Stratosphere Sound studio. He said the album will be released by Warner Bros Records as the final obligation under his contract with the recording giant.
"DUKES OF SEPTEMBER" TOUR
Fagen currently is promoting his upcoming tour with Michael McDonald, formerly of the Doobie Brothers and Steely Dan, and Boz Scaggs known for the hits "Lowdown" and "Lido Shuffle," playing together as "The Dukes of September Rhythm Revue."
"The Dukes," backed by a band and horn section, begin a nationwide
tour on August 19 in Danbury, Connecticut and stay on the road through October 2, when they play Las Vegas.
Fagen said the show will be evocative of the tours the threesome did with a large cast of collaborators from 1989 to 1993 called the New York Rock and Soul Review, which released the record "Live at the Beacon" in 1991.
The concerts will feature several hits each from Fagen, McDonald and Scaggs and then focus on the type of classic songs that drew the trio to music in the first place -- hits by the likes of Ray Charles, Chuck Berry and Wilson Pickett.
Date: Fri, June 11, 2010, 13:38:28 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower
Donald Fagen tour dates to be announced next Monday, CD to be released in 2011:
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=10888857
Date: Fri, June 11, 2010, 09:55:39 ET
Posted by: Hey Shirley, Gimme a grape soda
That entire episode is on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85VKRUeqG7o
Date: Fri, June 11, 2010, 09:15:25 ET
Posted by: Mr, Carboni
Skunk was a panelist on Fox's Redeye last night...although SD was mentioned he was mostly referred to as a Doobie Bros. band member...a clip of "What's Happenng" was shown (yeah, the TV show with Rerun) in which the Doobie Bros. guested...the subject of the episode was the ills of bootlegging...REALLY!).
Date: Fri, June 11, 2010, 06:22:21 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway
No no, that's "Daddy" smokin' that way. But the last posters explanation of this ironic SD pun was hardly necessary here, as it is more or less self-explanatory to all BlueBookers I'd say.
Making puns derived from SD lyrics (especially from Daddy Don't) on behalf of a brother who just left us is tempting, but maybe not very sensitive? However, I notice that Gretchen herself quotes from this lyric in her latest post, and I hereby respectfully make my contribution by stating:
Rajah can't get no fine Chablis
But we know he's chillin' wherever he is
Rajah don't post on that Dandom BlueBook no more
Rust In Peace? OMG, that's very punny, indeed! Btw, Rest Never Sleeps...
Date: Fri, June 11, 2010, 05:56:26 ET
Posted by: pixeleen, east of Richmond
Thanks, Hutch.
Heard from another source that tix may go on sale June 18....
Gotta love it, right ??!!!!
Date: Fri, June 11, 2010, 00:34:38 ET
Posted by: Yep, Rajah is SMOKIN alright,
which tends to happen when one is fully engulfed in flames....
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 23:41:24 ET
Posted by: fyi, here
Beaubo,
bozscaggs.com does not yet have that date listed. bozscaggs.org (where I assume you saw that) is a fan site.
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 22:43:01 ET
Posted by: An Old Friend,
Fast-forward to around 12:38 in the episode...Rajah is the man in the middle, wearing the green shirt...
http://www.hulu.com/watch/30699/marriedwith-children-cheese-clues-and-blood
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 22:30:52 ET
Posted by: ?,
Now just hang on a minute- Brian Sweet NEVER spoke with Denny Dias, Roger Nichols or Elliot Scheiner for his book. Yes,he did speak with Katz and Vance, but not those other guys.
His book is filled with a ton of misinformation.
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 22:22:16 ET
Posted by: beaubo, Cleveland
Sept 06, 2010 - Minnesota State Fair - St. Paul, MN (Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald)
From Boz Scaggs website
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 21:33:36 ET
Posted by: mr parker, socal
i apoligize if this has already been posted, it is incomplete, but tasty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRscoPmXA0U
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 19:12:44 ET
Posted by: Hutch,
Pixeleen - Sorry, I thought my friend said it was in the Times Dispatch. It was in the Style magazine dated June 9th.
It's not listed yet on the Innsbrook After Hours site. I guess tickets will be available once it's listed on the site.
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 18:57:54 ET
Posted by: Dave, NJ
Rajah played a character named Doug in that episode.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0642245/
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 18:55:00 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour
For whatever it's worth, according to IMDB, Rajah is "Doug" in that episode. Dunno if that is helpful as I haven't watched it yet.
Do I really have to subject myself to an ENTIRE episode of Married With Children?
:#)
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 18:36:13 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour
Gretchen,
You are one classy person. I love the fact that you remain positive about someone you have obviously had some issues with at one time. I respect that a ton, as so many don't seem to be able to keep a reasonable perspective. None of us is perfect.
And, like Klaus I'd love to know which character is Raj in that video. i have yet to watch, but will do so tonight.
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 17:55:44 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, ohio
Gretchen/ Which one is Raj? I never had the pleasure but I am guessing the guy sitting at the bar swirling his drink? That fellow just looks like a Danfan.
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 15:31:00 ET
Posted by: pixeleen, east of Richmond
Hutch:
I have scoured this morning's Rich Times Dispatch and can't find any mention of the Scaggs, McDonald, and Fagen show coming to Insbrook on August 29. Help! We are just east of Richmond and would be there in a heartbeat.....Would appreciate any info you have on how to get tix, etc.
Thanks !!
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 15:29:56 ET
Posted by: pixeleen, east of Richmond
Hutch:
I have scoured this morning's Rich Times Dispatch and can't find any mention of the Scaggs, McDonald, and Fagen show coming to Insbrook on August 29. Help!
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 15:19:39 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,
Deacon Blue, that was a very touching tribute to Rajah, and I'm sure he's laughing at "rust in peace," because he'd say that about himself! I would like to thank everyone on the blue for the wonderful thoughts and memories about Rajah, they were all a comfort and I'm thankful for the sense of community that continues here, even if we don't post as frequently anymore. And a huge thank you for Hoops, announcing David's passing with sensitivity and class and for tirelessly maintaining this site for so many years. I truly appreciate the long chronicle of our collective experiences, such as first meetings, crazy Danfests, show reports, even marriages in some cases! Someone could really use this info for a hell of a screenplay.
We went our separate ways, but I want to remember the good times, and the generous man with the good heart, the life of the party. Rajah also had quiet and simple pursuits, like enjoying a glass of Montepulciano and a plate of spaghetti while watching an old black and white movie. And there was no better person with whom to browse the aisles at Amoeba. It's sad to me that the little green den lined with books and the computer running 24/7 is no more. Some of you were introduced to this quirky sanctuary, and Danfans were always welcome.
I came upon a video where David had a small part on "Married with Children" in the early 90's. You can find it using the link below, but you will see a much younger version of him, with hair! The episode was entitled "Cheese, clues, and blood." At the time he used the name David Dario.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/30699/marriedwith-children-cheese-clues-and-blood
I hope the next time we gather for a show, we can all raise up a glass to Rajah. He's smokin' wherever he is.
RIP
G
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 14:49:13 ET
Posted by: Now just hang on a minute ...,
I'm with Jaydee on this one.
This guy Sweet carried out original interviews with Denny Dias, Gary Katz, Roger Nichols, Elliot Scheiner, Kenny Vance and studio musicians too numerous to mention. I defy anyone to find all the stuff in that book on "microfilm" and "mesh it all together from issues of Metal Leg". What planet are these guys on?
There are plenty of direct quotes from Denny Dias and Dave diMartino was kind enough to let Sweet have access to his Jim Hodder interview but there was really nothing in it worth using. Musicians, producers, engineers are all pretty much gonna remember things differently from 35+ years ago, so there are few definitive answers. Becker and Fagen would probably have a hard job remembering absolutely everything that went on in the studio in the right order themselves. Of course, reviews and interviews from Rolling Stone, Creem etc have been used, that's what any bio does, it collates as much available information as possible and brings it all together with the author's own material.
And no, there will more than likely never be an autobiography (or novel for that matter) from Becker and Fagen because as Fagen once said they're "too lazy for that sort of thing".
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 14:28:32 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
Jaydee:
Well, you (I!!) live and learn. Who've thunk it eh?
Still searching for the hard drive on my iMac. I suspect it's some sort of cunning alchemy.
On the the plus side,my system hasn't crashed once since I got it - some months ago now - and I'm happy to say I haven't experienced a single "Error Message"!!
You should give it a try, seriously. ;-)
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 11:49:24 ET
Posted by: JoeM,
Nice article on Mr. Michael Leonhart over at All About Jazz...
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=36382
Joe
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 11:36:53 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London
'Morph' - yes, wonderfully under-rated, and almost unknown to nearly everyone I've ever met - which suits me fine. Excellent stuff on 'Pagoda of Funn', but poignantly unsettling not to have an insightful contribution from the Raj. I would have sided with suedave's 'creepy' interpretation, but Lurker Ray's great post seems to catch Fagen making his intent uncharacteristically explicit. For a genuine paean to true romance though, I'll take the sublime 'Maxine'.
Rajah would indeed have enjoyed 'rust in peace', and even more so such a fine and sincere tribute from someone expressing themselves in a foreign tongue - even Raj himself dropped more than a few orthographical clangers during his Italian sojourn!
Brian Sweet's book is IMO a perfectly readable introduction to the Dan, and at least someone took the trouble to collate all those snippets. A few footnotes giving credit might have been a nice idea, but isn't any work of non-fiction largely a compilation of other sources?
Fagen, MM and Boz Skaggs sounds great to me - hope to hear this auspicious triumvirate in some format at some point.
And bassicinstinct - no Mac man here, just a clunky old P/C, but I have tried my brother's white wonder of wizardry (where's the hard drive then?) and was suitably impressed. However, searching with 'Edit' then 'Find' works fine on a P/C with IE, as does 'Ctrl+F'.
Looking forward to England vs USA at real football this saturday - and hopefully revenge for our bizarre 1-0 defeat back in 1950 !
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 10:31:07 ET
Posted by: Hutch, on Cloud #9 !!!
Just got a call from a good friend of mine... entertainment page of the morning paper:
Aug. 29th - Boz Scaggs, Michael McDonald & Donald Fagen
Innsbrook Pavillion
Richmond, Va.
Twenty minutes from my house!
And it's a Sunday night!
Wooooooooo Hooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!
Date: Thurs, June 10, 2010, 10:18:03 ET
Posted by: YGK, NYC
All of this wonderful "tawk" of