Date: Fri, September 03, 2010, 12:50:36 ET
Posted by: Mr, SD

Boz's wine seems to be keeping him quite fit for a man his age. But it looks as if Mike's been frequenting a certain arch-themed chain bearing his own surname.

Date: Fri, September 03, 2010, 12:35:10 ET
Posted by: henrod, NY

Attention ticket holder!

We just learned that your upcoming event has been canceled:

The Dukes of September
Jones Beach Theatre
Friday, September 03 at 7:30PM

As fans, we feel your pain! At least you don’t have to do anything to receive a refund.

We’ll automatically refund your order, including fees (except UPS and InStore Pick Up, if applicable) to your credit card within 7 – 10 business days.


Questions? Just hit reply and ask us or visit Ticketmaster.com!

Thanks for being a fan!

Ticketmaster Fan Support


CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:

This message contains information which may be confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone.

Date: Fri, September 03, 2010, 12:33:39 ET
Posted by: henrod , NY

I got an email and a voicemail from Ticketmaster telling me that the Jones Beach show is CANCELLED and that I'll be automatically refunded. Damn. I wish they'd rescheduled!

Date: Fri, September 03, 2010, 12:26:22 ET
Posted by: Connie, In the vineyard

Drink up!

http://napavalleyregister.com/lifestyles/food-and-cooking/wine/article_4b15e554-b6f0-11df-bb61-001cc4c03286.html

Date: Fri, September 03, 2010, 12:19:36 ET
Posted by: EB, Denver

The Dean,

First, Paul's wife (Linda) has been dead for a decade or more. So you won't be hearing her in concert.

You must also be a bit ignorant of McCartney's repertoir - however you spell repertoir. Fagan/Steely Dan are in my top five all time greatest for music listening. I am a jazz/rock/ musician.. and know the time changes. Fagen, we all know, is obviously more jazz oriented. I dig it. I am not comparing apples to apples musically. You can't. But don't be slighting McCartney's musical talent, influence, abilities, setlists, or concerts... unless you've actually seen him perform. His catalogue is deeper than any. He will dig out tunes never ever played live before... ever...and will probably never be again.... on each and every tour... and he is older than Fagen... and has played more shows. How many Fagen tunes can you say that about... Now, this tour isn't being SOLD OUT... even with the talent of THREE Friggin great singers and songwriters. Three great talents are being self indulgent.

Self indulgency is fine... if you are playing in a barn in upstate New York.

Self indulgency is great when you play venues that are small enough... so the audience is actually having a great time.... enjoying the ACCOUSTICS... and the company of "hundreds" of others in close proximity enough to feel the vibe. Not a half empty outdoor venue... where the wind blows have the frequencies into another state... where you have to bundle up from a hurricane.... AND on top of that pay top dollar for their "NAMES."

That's what the ticket prices are for... their NAMES. Not the music.

The music can be listened to when going to half a dozen other cover bands .... Sure Fagen, McDonald, Boz, have great musical talent. So does Clapton. I saw Clapton as well a few years ago... and he was self indulgent...charging top dollar so we could listen to his self indulgent set list.

In every business, every business... the customer is always right. In concerts, that means, give the audience what they want to hear... IF you are going to charge a premium. If you want to play the songs of other people... do it. Just don't charge the same price.

Don't read me wrong. I am confident I will dig this show, and my friends too.... with enough warning. As for McCartney, sure, he wrote some silly love songs.. but he also, in case you are unaware, is the greatest song writer in modern music history, and his catalogue is deep deep. AND, he puts on a hell of a show... He's not self indugent live.

Date: Fri, September 03, 2010, 12:09:41 ET
Posted by: The Dukes Of McDonald?, NYC

The local NY ABC news at noon just had this report:

"The Micheal McDonald show tonight at Jones Beach has bee canceled"

Pretty funny!

Date: Fri, September 03, 2010, 11:19:56 ET
Posted by: JR, NY

Thanks GM, for the update! Do you know if it's going to be rescheduled?

Date: Fri, September 03, 2010, 11:19:15 ET
Posted by: confirmed, confirmed

http://www.livenation.com/event/1D0044CFA58B5F3B?artistid=735039&majorcatid=10001&minorcatid=1

Date: Fri, September 03, 2010, 10:18:52 ET
Posted by: Girl Margaret, Not on the island

It has just been confirmed: Jones Beach show is CANCELLED for tonight.

Date: Fri, September 03, 2010, 08:33:13 ET
Posted by: Dukes, Press

A good article about the NY/NJ area shows. Seems to be a recent interview and not the one from the press conference that's been rehashed everywhere.

http://www.northjersey.com/arts_entertainment/102043318_Fagen_returns_to_his_Jersey_roots.html?c=y&page=1

Date: Fri, September 03, 2010, 01:14:56 ET
Posted by: Girl Margaret, The 'chestah

Ahhh, another hot summer night, another (IMHO) fabulous Dukes of September show. Set was the same as Boston, crowd was very receptive but the show was definately not sold out. In fact, when the show started (a little before 8 I think - the tickets said 7:30 but they didn't start then), the place barely had anyone in it. But by the time the concert kicked into full gear everyone had taken their seats. IGY and Lowdown got a HUGE response from the crowd, those people were going crazy for these two songs.

I guess since Fagen and Herington are both originally Jersey boys, it's a bit of a homecoming show for them, not unlike playing in New York, and that's why the crowd is so enthusiastic (well that and the music's fuckin' groovy). For some reason tonight, when Don was introducing the band he also introduced where a lot of them were from, and mentioned Herington is from Jersey. He asked "Jon, where are you from again?" and Jon's trying to yell across the stage (and the crowd) to him that he's from Madison, but Donald couldn't hear him and yelled out "I can't hear a fucking thing you're saying" which got a lot of laughs from the band and the crowd. Finally Herington ran closer to Mike McD's mike and told him where he was from. And when Don introduced himself he said "I'm Donald Fagen and I'm from Passaic, New Jersey!" and the crowd went nuts.

The latest I'm hearing on Jones Beach is that I should keep checking NY Parks and Recreation and Jones Beach website because supposedly the storm has now been downgraded. Below is the contact information for anyone else looking to go to JB tomorrow. If I can make it out and not get trapped I am so going! What's a hurricane when you're talking about Shakedown Street and Miss Sun?

NY State Parks & Recreation
Regional Office Contact Information
625 Belmont Ave
West Babylon, NY11704
Phone: (631) 669-1000
http://www.jonesbeach.com/

Date: Fri, September 03, 2010, 01:07:07 ET
Posted by: ha, ha

You know they're getting old when one performer says to another (as they did tonight) "I can't hear a fucking thing you're saying."

Date: Fri, September 03, 2010, 00:41:07 ET
Posted by: I, say this affectionately...

Perhaps they could have named this tour the "Rock and So Old Revue."

(Now, now, I'm only teasing. We're all headed in the same direction anyway.)

Date: Fri, September 03, 2010, 00:10:05 ET
Posted by: Dave From Acquisitions, Boston

NothingButTheBlues:

I listened to both Rose Darling and King of the World. Fabulous! Is there any possibility in getting a transcription of King of the World?

Keep up the great work,

Mark

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 23:54:39 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

L-Ray,,

That link doesn't work (at least for me) but I'm fairly sure you were going for what is on this page. There is a stream, or download link, to Crypatcize's cover of Peg:

http://stereogum.com/9499/cryptacize_cover_steely_dan/mp3/


And eb, I don't mean to be a total asshole, but I don't really have another way to say this. Paul McCartney is a sell-out whore, who deals in schlock, for the most part. Of course he deals out the hits, he's a panderer. He was a terrific songwriter with Lennon, but let's face it, his solos stuff is crap. At least that's how I feel about Sir Paul. Paul may put on a long concert, but you are stuck listening to Paul (and perhaps his very talented wife, too!)

Comparing a pop act, and what they play to Steely Dan seems a bit odd to me. But if your friends are looking for Steely Dan hits, and don't have the flexibility to be able to enjoy a great band playing some classic old tunes, then I agree this probably isn't the concert for them.

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 23:36:03 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

NBB -

I'm usually very skeptical about
any "fan" versions of great SD
tunes posted here, but I trust
GM's taste and gave your stuff
a listen. Lovely, just lovely.
Is that a "real" piano?

As a matter of fact it's playing
now on the veranda on this warm
Malibu evening. A perfect chaser
to a cold Anchor Steam.

http://cdn.stereogum.com/downloader/?file=%2Fmp3%2FCryptacize+-+Peg/

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 23:03:27 ET
Posted by: eb, Denver

.... being a bit concerned about the set list... I wrote earlier that my two friends... might be a bit disappointed in paying full price for tickets... and not hearing many SD songs...

I will definately dig the concert. I am a big fan, and a musician, and am hip to the New York Rock and Soul Review. My friends are not. They are regular guys.

When artists charge so much nowdays for concert tickets... give them their money's worth. Play the hits... AND play the soul tunes. I am looking forward to hearing Shakedown Street. My friends are looking forward to hearing ANYTHING from SD. They will hear one song... and wonder if they should pay high price for concert tickets to see cover tunes.

McCartney Show? He is what... 67 years old. You know how many tunes he plays? About 30 friggin 7. 37 tunes for about THREE hours non stop or hits and deep cuts (incredible.) Know how much I paid for the ticket? About $60.

I will pay the same price for Dukes of September. And what do they offer? About a third fewer songs. And one Steely Dan song. Either McCartney is playing too long, and giving fans too much for their money... of Dukes are over charging. Which is it? All they need to do is add a handful of Steely Dan hits... to tip the scales back to something "worthy" of justifying a major concert tour. Otherwise, play medium sized venues and charge half the price. Or buy a round of drinks....

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 22:57:19 ET
Posted by: LisaG, home @ last

Just got back from PNC--kick-ASS show. Props to the Dukes or should I say, the three funky old white guys...well not "old" but...

I'd offer color but I have to be up really early. However, I will offer this: Fagen was downright giddy, and so was the crowd. GO...SEE...THIS...SHOW.

P.S. I love you Freddie!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 17:36:34 ET
Posted by: Lewis, Exit 116

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 14:08:38 ET
Posted by: pixeleen,

Couple of new youtube videos from the Boston show........

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 13:52:41 ET
Posted by: nothingbutblues, -

I feel honored to get such nice feedback from fellow Dan fans. Thank you sooo much guys!

I replaced the first Rose Darling recording with an extended one, which means the old link won't work. Both Rose Darling and King Of The World can be downloaded here:

http://sites.google.com/site/pianodemos/files

Again, thank you!

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 13:10:10 ET
Posted by: angel, Still in LA

Girl Margaret: Here is the Rose Darling link again.

https://sites.google.com/site/pianodemos/files/rose_darling.mp3

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 13:07:55 ET
Posted by: angel, LA

Nothin' It is just a wonderful version of King of the World. My son's favorite Steely Dan song, bar none. Thanks so much for posting it. :-)

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 11:45:47 ET
Posted by: Girl Margaret, The 'chestah

BTW here's the latest I heard with regards to Jones Beach. This is not from music people, it's from a good friend who works for Nassau County:

At the 24-36 hour mark, and if the County declares an emergency, the County plan is to close all places of amusement. When
wind speeds reach 55mph, there will be a mandatory closing of all places of public assembly, curfews instituted, etc.
All bridges on and off the island are likely to be closed at that point. Seeing that the theater is on the water and open, I'm guessing its would a windy, wet experience if they were stupid enough to let the show go on.... I'll know more for sure later...
Huricane is expected to pass the Island at about 8 pm tomorrow evening so the concert would be at the worst possible time.
Even emergency crews and vehicles are pulled off the road if not required at 55mph winds.....

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 11:42:08 ET
Posted by: Girl Margaret, The 'chestah

Ray, thank goodness I wasn't spotted by Boz's people, it's not easy to hide in the ceiling!

nothingbutblues, I didn't get to listen to Rose Darling, but I loved your take on King of the World! Absolutely fabulous! Hey, if you're looking for a violinist, I'd like to be the first in line!

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 11:35:50 ET
Posted by: Ben, Indy

http://www.glidemagazine.com/hiddentrack/storytellers-ajas-effect-on-teenagers-pt-2/

Hyped to read the interview about a third WB solo project and possible SD album!!!

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 10:16:13 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

nothingbutblues,

I really enjoyed both of your renditions. Extremely creative (of course it helps when you cook with the best ingredients!).

I think it is terrific as is, and might even be enhanced if you found the right violinist for a duet. I'm thinking a la Barbara Higbie and Daryl Anger (the album Tidelne comes to mind). Just my 2 cents.

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 05:31:04 ET
Posted by: nothingbutblues, -

Thanks for all the feedback on my piano rendition of Rose Darling!

I decided to record another cover, this time of King Of The World. Again, any feedback is much appreciated!

http://sites.google.com/site/pianodemos/files/king_of_the_world_demo01.mp3

Shark:

As I am on an iPhone, I can not access MySpace Music. Feel free to email your cover to thedawnkid@gmail.com - I would love to listen!

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 01:57:26 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Yes indeed, great Spinner article!
Thanks ed

And thanks as always to GM for
another fab report from Boston.
Glad you finally got to see a
show from the front row - and
not one word from Boz's people
about a "stalker" in Boston!
;O)

Date: Thurs, September 02, 2010, 00:11:20 ET
Posted by: angel, LA

That's a GREAT interview on Spinner. Thanks for the link.
Here's a snippet on Steely Dan Lyrics. My thought was, after all the work Oleander did with Fever Dreams. :-)



Donald Fagen:
"Yeah, you know. Especially in some of the early ones, I don't think Walter and I even know what they mean because we were probably high at the time."

Date: Wed, September 01, 2010, 23:51:13 ET
Posted by: ed_beatty, out west

Hey

here's some more info...wb solo project?

http://www.spinner.com/2010/09/01/steely-dan-donald-fagen/

Date: Wed, September 01, 2010, 21:59:23 ET
Posted by: Girl Margaret, Home at last

Well, I said it before and I'll say it again: Boston always has the best audiences (I probably stole this from Hoops, but it's true!)

What a treat last night was, I've never sat front row for a SD/DF/Boz/Mike McD concert before and to be able to be so close and see the energy and the excitement just caused me to feed off of the performers all night. You can look right into their eyes and see how much fun they're having up onstage, it was fantastic.

Set list was the same as when I was at Borgata, except for a third song added into the encores (I didn't recognize it and Jane Lighting told us what it was, but I forgot). Didn't seem an ideal encore song, it was a touch of a downer, but it was the second of three encore songs, so the show didn't end on a downer.

Highlights for me: the versatility of Michael McDonald (he played keyboard, accordian, banjo, and ukelele), Donald's feet dancing away under the piano, watching Herington singing along to "Help Me Rhonda", being spitting distance away from Boz Scaggs (I could hardly take my eyes off of him all night), Shakedown Street (my new favorite song), Freddy groovin, the girls solos and duets, especially Catherine Russell and Mike McD - those two were made for each other, the banter between Mike and Boz and Don, and most importantly being surrounded by my Bahstuhn Danfriends. Sure it was a treat to sit in the front row, but I would have had as much fun in the last row of the balcony if I was sitting with the same fab crowd I was with last night.

Best banter of the evening goes to Michael McDonald. They were setting up for The Band medley (I'm pretty sure) and Mike gets off his keyboards and sits on a stool and straps on his banjo (precious). As he's setting up, Don mentions something about Mike playing banjo and that it's something a lot of people don't know he can do. Then Mike grabs the mike from the banjo, pulls it up to talk into it and says something along the lines of "It also pushes back my chances of ever having sex again." That got a good roar of laughter from the crowd.

I can't get Jim Beard's keyboard line from Help Me Rhonda out of my head. It's starting to border on annoying.

And of course, it's not the show you're at, it's the people you're with, and you guys make the long drives worth it. Thanks to Denise, Chan, Fezzie, Doug, Jane and Al, and Boston Rag. You guys are the best.

Overall, the whole night was fabulous, from Jacob Wirths to that strange piano bar Denise and I popped into afterwards that played FM and IGY over the pa during a break. Tomorrow night, PNC and Friday Jones Beach (hopefully!)

Side note: a very reliable source informs me that Long Island is preparing for a worst case scenario of cat. 3 storm, and there's a chance Friday's show may be canceled. But another reliable source suggested that if the hurricane hits the show will be rescheduled, not canceled...but one has to wonder when a Jones Beach show would be rescheduled for. I have no idea when they close for the season. Just a heads up for everyone!

Date: Wed, September 01, 2010, 21:48:14 ET
Posted by: Bill from Pgh,

Stumbled across this on Donald's Wiki entry:

Stereo Memory Man with Hazarai - Film by Michael Leonhart - Digital Delay/ Looper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__BDhm8jhiw

Featuring a Fez-wearing DF in a cameo, at the beginning and on trumpet (!), Theremin and tamborine beginning around 9:30.
Donald and Michael L. had some fun with this surreal video.

Date: Wed, September 01, 2010, 20:39:25 ET
Posted by: KzkzkZ, Tracking the storm

Jones Beach still lists the show as on. Rain or shine event. I bet the Dukes of September will play "The Duke of Earl" in the storms honor. Between the MTA cutting the convenient bus from the LIRR and the impending storm, I will have to pass on this show. Sat in torrential rain there for one memorable Dan show all too many years ago ("Boston Rag" opener). That was worth it. Although I would love to hear The Donald singing "Shakedown Street", not enough to venture out to the beach. If the weather was nice I'd get there early and catch some rays first.

Thanks for the youtube link. Hope more show.

Date: Wed, September 01, 2010, 17:30:50 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. It's Happy Hour!

Ben, thanks for that link.

Didn't get to spend much time on the site yet, but it looks pretty hip.

Date: Wed, September 01, 2010, 17:17:51 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

8 shows down and still no fan photos
from the Dukes Of September Tour???

Date: Wed, September 01, 2010, 11:09:46 ET
Posted by: Denise, BOS

What a fun show last night! Highlights for me were IGY and earlier, Carolyn singing Rock Steady. That was fabulous. DF looked like he was having fun, could see his feet dancing around beneath the grand piano. GM and I were in the front row with Jane Lightning & Al, Fezman behind us: we all lucked out on those seats. Don was standing center-stage for IGY with a melodica, round blue glasses on, behind him, deep magenta curtains parted and in the middle a black backdrop with pinlights of blue and yellow. Quite a sight.

Enjoyed all of it, even the songs I was unfamiliar with. I'm not much into the Band: they did 3 of theirs, but the excellent performances were great to watch, even though the songs themselves didn't do much for me. Mike M. was great on a Ray Charles tune as was Catherine Russell on, I think, a Muddy Waters song. Jon H. outstanding throughout. And I love watching Freddie, groovin' through the whole thing.

Soul Train was quite a surprise, I had to laugh. (Can't picture Walter being on stage singing that one!) It was a great time, go if you can, I think you will enjoy it.

Date: Wed, September 01, 2010, 10:53:37 ET
Posted by: Janie Runaway, NY

Ben,

Thanks for that link - that was kinda fun!

Date: Wed, September 01, 2010, 10:20:09 ET
Posted by: Ben, Indy

http://www.glidemagazine.com/hiddentrack/storytellers-ajas-effect-on-teenagers-pt-1/

Date: Wed, September 01, 2010, 08:34:53 ET
Posted by: enimen, Boston

GREAT SHOW.

All though people saying it's not? They're wrong. It is GREAT.

If you're in Jersey, near Jones Beach, St. Paul, Detroit...GO.

Was that Girl Margaret I saw in the front row at the Wang?

Date: Wed, September 01, 2010, 08:34:34 ET
Posted by: Yahoo, News

Tangentially Dan. This story reminds me a lot of 11 Tracks of Whack. In Bakersfield, a doctor died after getting stuck in the chimney (think Santa Claus drunk on Christmas wine) at the residence of one William Moodie (bastard).

It's pretty obvious to me that the reason she was in in the chimney is because Moodie told her "Doc don't you worry. All you got to do is hide in here"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100901/ap_on_re_us/us_woman_in_chimney

Date: Wed, September 01, 2010, 08:08:16 ET
Posted by: Boston, Reviews

http://www.boston.com/ae/music/articles/2010/09/01/70s_pop_stars_dont_mess_up_a_good_thing/


http://www.bostonherald.com/entertainment/music/general/view/20100901the_dukes_rule_with_edgy_risks_classic_hit_gems/srvc=home&position=recent

Date: Wed, September 01, 2010, 07:10:17 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

Matt:

Can I have my 4:36 back please? LOL

Date: Wed, September 01, 2010, 07:01:54 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR

Into the volley of new servers:
Saw where Joe Namath visited the Jets' camp. I'm thinking he looked pretty Fagenesque in his big apple brim. I know this guy who thinks aging rock singers start sounding like Bon Scott (hear Burton Cummings & Don Henley). Maybe it will happen to Geddy Lee-- but not Jon Anderson. Terry Kath could have been the "King of Rock and Roll." Hope by the time the Dukes hit Tunica I can find my seat. And natives of the hinterlands don't know nothin' about no Dead, so we're hoping to hear some Spinners and maybe a little RJ Deo.
If your headed to Red Rocks with hesitant friends, call my big brother Gary the Wolf over at TIS on the north side, and he'll tell you how to help people open they ears and see the light.

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 23:17:57 ET
Posted by: Dave, NJ

"PNC show in N.J. on thursday. the cheap seats are showing up on ticketmaster (when you try to buy seats) at $20 plus fees instead of the $46 "


This is why I wasn't surprised that there was no NYC show. They knew it was going to be hard enough filling PNC and Jones Beach on consecutive nights without demand being further saturated by a date at the Beacon.

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 22:34:38 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,

The latest Strainer was:

{Tonight's Strainer goes outside of the realm of the Dan and deals with The Grateful Dead. We usually refrain from venturing outside of the Dan, always endeavouring to keep things Dangential. But the Blue did in fact "Rise from the Dead", such that a Dead-dealing Strainer therefore becomes fair game.

The recent Bluebook discussions which have involved the Dead and the mention of a Mr. Mark Knopfler, another Dangential figure and performer on the song Time out of Mind, as well as some fans expressing interest in some later vintage Dead to be brought bsck and possibly covered on the the Dukes tour bring to mind two tunes that have a SONIC similarity, particularly on the keyboards. Although we will not go as far as to say that the later vintage Dead tune "Touch of Grey" was a DIRECT derivation of an earlier tune in the body of work of Mr. Knopfler--when you take into consideration all of this "Dangentiality" going on, and to paraphrase and old Zeppelin refrain....And it makes me wonder....

Name that tune.

Difficulty level is 4 out of 10.

For Top 40/MTV fans this one should be easy, so time for a HINT:

HINT: The current US banking crisis was not the first. People forget the Great Savings and Loan Crisis back in 1985 when the US was also in "Dire Straits".}

This Strainer was a rare foray outside of the realm of the Dan, and no one was able to get it except for possibly the poster "My Guess" who declined to answer.

The Grateful Dead's roots go back the 1960's and were one of a number of bands that were referred to as "underground groups". These were groups that had strong cult followings, but did not have pop hits nor did they get much airplay. Before there was "Alternative" there was "Underground", to make an analogy. With the advent of FM radio, and the splintering of music genre into such things as "Album Oriented Rock" these underground groups achieved much wider appeal, while still not achieving Top 40 status. The Dead had some airplay with "Casey Jones", "Truckin"' and "Shakedown Street", but their biggest commercial pop hit was "Touch of Grey" in 1987, which came over 20 years after their founding.

When Mark Knopfler was mentioned in some posts awhile back, juxtaposed with posts about The Dead, Knopfler's old group "Dire Straits" came to mind and the sonic similarity and style of the tune 1985's "Walk of Life" to The Dead's 1987 "Touch of Grey". The poster My Guess intimated that he thought he had the answer, but is ineligible to receive a Strainer point by his own volition.

So for My Guess (and others) the NEXT opportunity will be a Dan-related Hemorrhager dealing with two related Old Testament tunes.

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 22:28:37 ET
Posted by: Fife, Baltimore, eh

Hey Angel,
They have really nice women's shirts in black with a rusty red colour lettering. I bought one and Mr.Sam approved! It's a nice soft stretch cotton.

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 20:53:17 ET
Posted by: tony, N.J.

PNC show in N.J. on thursday. the cheap seats are showing up on ticketmaster (when you try to buy seats) at $20 plus fees instead of the $46 plus fees posted. but these are not near the stage. it is a cheap date for those who love great music and are not flush with cash. i think i am going again. i was at the Borgata last week.

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 19:21:31 ET
Posted by: Earl, On my way up

Hope that Hurricane doesn't bother the Dukes at Jones Beach.

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 18:55:19 ET
Posted by: Matt, Chattanooga, TN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX8zAqO9SP4

Bob Is Not Your Uncle Anymore...

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 16:07:42 ET
Posted by: angel, LA

Denise: I am good. I might end up going to the Greek and catch one there. :-)

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 14:56:06 ET
Posted by: casual fan, orlando

Here's an article out of the Boston Herald in advance of tonight's show. The opening lines irk me for some reason, but then there is a decent little interview with Fagen. Love the last part ...

http://www.bostonherald.com/entertainment/music/general/view/20100831donald_fagen_boz_scaggs_and_michael_mcdonald_band_together_as_dukes_of_september/srvc=home&position=also

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 13:22:43 ET
Posted by: Denise, Hinktown

Angel, Would you like me to get one tonight?

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 12:51:32 ET
Posted by: angel, Los Angeles

Had my first spotting of a Dukes of September shirt this morning on the Subway. The gentleman had seen them on Sunday at the VA show. He said it was excellent and highly recommends that I attend one.

Shirt is medium Gray and nice. :-)

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 11:31:47 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

Dukes of September footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8O5TCyYZOA

Enjoy!!

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 11:07:48 ET
Posted by: fred,

Hoops- Isn't that (Kelly Dwyer) "KD" who wrote that Yahoo piece on the The Dukes?

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 09:46:02 ET
Posted by: Ola Belle, Ollabelle

P.S.

"Look Down That Lonesome Road" is streamed at the link provided if anyone cares to give a listen...

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 09:19:00 ET
Posted by: Ola Belle, Ollabelle

Not sure this even qualifies as Dangential anymore at this distance from the original Steely arc, but...


http://www.the9513.com/ola-belle-reed-a-woman-of-deep-faith-good-humor-and-extraordinary-talent/

...There is an annual Ola Belle Reed Music Festival in her birthplace of Lansing, North Carolina. Past performers include Tim O’Brien, the late Mike Seeger, and, of course, ***Ollabelle***, the band who took its name from the lady herself.

New Smithsonian Folkways album 'Rising Sun Melodies' boasts eight previously unreleased Ola Belle tracks; all were recorded at the 1972 and 1976 Folklife Festivals. These performances include “Look Down That Lonesome Road” (which she introduces as her theme song), “Nine Pound Hammer,” and a stirring rendition of Hank Williams’ “I Saw the Light”–well, stirring with a side of amusing as she peppers the gospel song with midsong instructions: “Let’s clap! Now get together!” The other songs range from 19th century ballad “Sweet Evalina” to the autobiographical “I’ve Endured,” which Reed wrote on her 50th birthday. As a whole, the album paints a picture of a woman of deep faith, good humor, and extraordinary talent.

With its superb song selection and lengthy, in-depth liner notes written by Jeff Place, archivist at the Smithsonian Center for Folklife and Cultural Heritage, 'Rising Sun Melodies' is the perfect place to start for those who are new to Ola Belle Reed. And longtime fans, well, they’re going to like this album too.

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 08:25:07 ET
Posted by: Yahoo, sports

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-Duke-of-July-takes-in-the-Dukes-of-September?urn=nba-266196

Date: Tues, August 31, 2010, 07:55:01 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the tower

thanks, Hutch, appreciate it...I would have guessed Boz!

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 21:08:50 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

Lurker Ray - Yeah, I knew the song but didn't know the background on it until I did a quick search...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Something_in_the_Air

Doc - Donald sang it. Sounded spot on. Wonder who suggested adding that one?

Pixeleen - You're right. I noticed those moments when they were singing backups along with the girls. Nice.

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 16:46:45 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

After "nuttin" from the Raleigh
fans - Thanks for all of the great
reports from Richmond!

So great to see that Don & Co
are willing to switch up the setlist!

Just when you think they couldn't go
"deeper" into "Nugget Land" they pull
out SITA by Thunderclap Newman!
As I recall, Didn't Pete Townshend
produce that record?

Wish I could have been there.

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 14:29:58 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

International Geophysical Year.

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 14:14:32 ET
Posted by: pixeleen,

Hutch:

Absolutely agree with all your thoughts about last night's show.
Donald's melodica was definitely seen early and often :-)

Somehow we got lucky and arrived at the park about 5:15, and managed to miss the huge traffic back-up. Also, lucked out on the way out without too much waiting.

Definitely a great big thank you to Donald, et al, for bringing the show to Richmond !! What a huge treat it was to be able to see all three of these guys together, so close to home.

WHAT A NIGHT !!!!!!

Would love to see the show again......

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 14:13:37 ET
Posted by: mr belzoni, funway west

HELP! easy question for don fans, what does IGY stand for, i believe something about a geophysical year,, pl let me know, thanks mr b!

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 12:20:00 ET
Posted by: Hank,

"Yes, it really is Dangential


Stop wasting my time

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 12:17:35 ET
Posted by: geo,

Hutch- Catherine Russell appearing Sunday August 29 at Thompkins Square Park in the East Village NYC with Mark Shane-piano, Matt Munisteri-guitar, Lee Hudson-bass, Marion Felder-drums...our set kicks things off at 3:00pm...followed by wonderful artists and it's a FREE FESTIVAL!

Hope this answers your question.

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 12:16:21 ET
Posted by: Yes, it really is Dangential

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/ele/1926846919.html

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 10:16:43 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

After a good night's sleep, more reflections...

I was blown away by the size of the crowd. All three of these guys have a huge fan base and it showed.

Standouts for me:
Shakedown Street. Never been a GD fan but this is a cool song.

Don't Mess up a Good Thing. Nice to see Carolyn come down front. She and Mike sounded great together.

Rock Steady. Again Carolyn down front channeling Aretha Franklin. That woman has an amazing set of pipes.

IGY and Green Flower Street. Donald's voice was strong and in perfect pitch. And his Melodica playing was frequent and very tasteful.

Lowdown. Beautifully done.

The Thunderclap Newman tune in the encore. Great song. Totally unexpected.

As I said, the mix at the soundboard was one of the best outdoor mixes I've heard in a long long time. Not too loud at all. It sounded like you were sitting in front of a super high-end stereo system in your house! Kudos to the front of house team.

The horn arrangements were just outstanding. Two saxes and a trumpet is a good sound, not too big but just right. A lot of baritone sax going on as well throughout the show.

And Jim Beard was just tearing up some B3 organ parts on a lot of the tunes. It was cool to see him perform. Class act.

Don't know why Cindy replaced Catherine. Didn't see anything on Catherine's website about another commitment. Who knows?

Missed seeing you Pixeleen. Did you get caught in that mile and a half long line to get in?

And I'd just like to say thank you to Donald for bringing the show to my home town. I never expected it. The highlight of the Summer!

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 10:14:17 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, Ohio

Dean/ Dokken and Kroak me on a Steely board!! Way too funny' I will admit I thought Steve Perrys Oh Cherri was brilliant from the guitar work to the vocals.Please no more mention of 80s hair bands or ACDC on the bluebook. Anyone who would think they are comparable just dont get it. I suggest they go back and listen to Pretzel Logic and Countdown and than throw those Dokken discs in the sewer where they belong! Viva la Dan

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 10:12:05 ET
Posted by: search, ws

Review of last night's concert.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/entertainment/2010/aug/30/duke30-ar-479024/

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 10:05:29 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower

Hutch

who did the vocals on Something in the Air? Was IGY played?

Thanks!!

Doc

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 10:04:46 ET
Posted by: pixeleen, still reelin'

Hutch:

We must have been only about 5 feet from each other last night !!!
We managed to get a spot, dead center, right behind the gold circle area and right in front of the soundboard.....Great spot !!! Sound was perfect !!
You are right.....could not believe how crowded it was and how enthusiastic the crowd was !!!
Great show all around.......
IGY was superb and, Green Flower Street is always great to hear live.
Boz certainly was in fine voice; Mike was a little ragged at times, but then he usually is, and Donald sounded great and looked like he was having so much fun .
Cindy and Carolyn were in very fine voice and looked lovely too.
On some of the songs, where DF, BS, MM, and the ladies were all singing in harmony......it almost brought tears to the eyes. Just beautiful !!!!

Sorry we missed each other.....
Glad you enjoyed the show as much as we did.

Danfans: Go see this show if it is anywhere near you!!! You will not be disappointed ..

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 09:14:57 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Cerpin Taxt,

Have you found no chart at all for Gaucho...nothing to work from ?

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 08:49:11 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, Ohio

Regarding Gaucho/ Bflat/C - C/F- F-BFLATF- F-BFLAT MAJOR 7TH-AMINOR7 JUST A TASTE i HOPE IT HELPS.

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 08:02:02 ET
Posted by: Zippy, H

I'd like to get pressed into vinyl when I die. Gives new meaning to feelin' groovy.

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 07:56:06 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,

My Guess

No one else has gotten the last Strainer, so it might not be as weak as You or I thought. Estimating Difficulty Level is problematic, and especially so, it seems, on the rare occasions we move outside of the realm of the Dan. Did you get the answer (you think) BEFORE the HINT was given out? The answer WILL be provided on the News @11.

I see your point about becoming all-time leader. I believe it was Muhammad Ali tha once said after a close decision where he almost lost his Heavyweight title, that even though he didn't have his best day that day, the opponent would have really had to almost knock Ali out to take the title from Ali via decision. Ali said something like, "this one was close, but in order to get the title by decision, you have to "whup a champion".

The next one is going to be a Hemorrhager, within the Old Testament Dan. So IF you get the title via correctly answering a Hemorrhager, it will be fairly well legitimized, no?

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 07:24:11 ET
Posted by: George, in Paris

This takes the vinyl vs. digital discussion to a whole new level:

Company presses your ashes into vinyl when you die By Olivia Solon |27 August 2010 |

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2010-08/27/and-vinyly


Charlie Freak would have approved

Date: Mon, August 30, 2010, 00:09:22 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

Just back from the Richmond show. The place was packed... very enthusiastic crowd.
Man, what a tight band! Just outstanding. Great mix. We stood right behind the soundboard. The songs moved from one to another smoothly with Donald doing the MC duties. He was in fine voice and looked like he was having fun. Boz and Mike were terrific, the horn arrangements were great, the ladies were amazing. Can't say enough. Go see this show!

- King Harvest (Has Surely Come) replaced Caledonia Mission
- Cindy Mizelle replaced Catherine Russell (?)
- Encore was:
Help Me Rhonda
Something in the Air (Thunderclap Newman)
Them Changes

Date: Sun, August 29, 2010, 22:20:54 ET
Posted by: My Guess, out there

I'm refraining from this Strainer, because my next point will make me #1 all time. This would be like getting my 3000th career hit on a Texas leaguer. I passed on the Deacon Blues one for the same reason.

Date: Sun, August 29, 2010, 22:01:06 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

"What about Angus Young, David lee Roth, Sammy Hagar, Robert Plant, Billy Squier, Peter Cetera, Carl Wilson, one of the best all time in Steve Perry, the guys from Dokken and Krokus the list goes on. These singers are the basis of the best in music history!"

That's some funny stuff right there. David Lee Roth among the best in music history! You're killing me. And I really despise Steve Perry. I loved Journey's first two albums, when they were a spacey Santana offshoot with Greg Rolie on vocals. The dreck that they recorded with Perry is pure pop garbage, IMO. But then again, that's not my kind of music.

Date: Sun, August 29, 2010, 18:50:56 ET
Posted by: Cerpin Taxt , Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!

SS
I've been a long time fan of Howard's site. Amazing tabs. No Gaucho on there, unfortunately. Thanks for the help though!

Date: Sun, August 29, 2010, 14:49:53 ET
Posted by: what???,

Dean
How can anyone not be into high pitch, you gotta be out of your mind!

What about Angus Young, David lee Roth, Sammy Hagar, Robert Plant, Billy Squier, Peter Cetera, Carl Wilson, one of the best all time in Steve Perry, the guys from Dokken and Krokus the list goes on. These singers are the basis of the best in music history! you have had some decent opinions at times, but this one test the limits of absurdity.

Date: Sun, August 29, 2010, 13:43:08 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

Klaus,

Like you, I am no Rush fan. I know many who are, though and have been forced to listen to a bit over the years. I will say the musicianship is top notch, for this kind of music. Peart is a very good drummer and as you noted, Lifeson is a quality guitarist.

Where they lose me (aside from their style, which is not to my liking) is the horrid wailing from the castrato Geddy Lee. I'd just as soon jab forks in my ears as listen to him. I can't say I'm a huge fan of any of the high-singers from rock's sound-alike bands, but Lee is among the worst, IMO.

Date: Sun, August 29, 2010, 13:00:10 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,

The latest Strainer was:

(Tonight's Strainer goes outside of the realm of the Dan and deals with The Grateful Dead. We usually refrain from venturing outside of the Dan, always endeavouring to keep things Dangential. But the Blue did in fact "Rise from the Dead", such that a Dead-dealing Strainer therefore becomes fair game.

The recent Bluebook discussions which have involved the Dead and the mention of a Mr. Mark Knopfler, another Dangential figure and performer on the song Time out of Mind, as well as some fans expressing interest in some later vintage Dead to be brought bsck and possibly covered on the the Dukes tour bring to mind two tunes that have a SONIC similarity, particularly on the keyboards. Although we will not go as far as to say that the later vintage Dead tune "Touch of Grey" was a DIRECT derivation of an earlier tune in the body of work of Mr. Knopfler--when you take into consideration all of this "Dangentiality" going on, and to paraphrase and old Zeppelin refrain....And it makes me wonder....

Name that tune.

Difficulty level is 4 out of 10.)

For Top 40/MTV fans this one should be easy, so time for a HINT:

HINT: The current US banking crisis was not the first. People forget the Great Savings and Loan Crisis back in 1985 when the US was also in "Dire Straits".

Date: Sun, August 29, 2010, 12:32:33 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, oHIO

fezzi Please help me out w/ the theory of many Danfans also being Rushfans. No disrespect intended but I cant think of two bands more diff. I agree that Lifeson is a stellar guitar player but they lost me years ago when they started singing about trees forming labour unions! Cant imagine Don or Walt giving any credence to such nonsense. I grew up in a area where you were either a Rush fan or a Kansas fan and my friends and I could argue for hours on why Kansas were much better. Just my two piasters and no disrespect Fezzie. And my main point between Rush and Kansas being/ Geddy Lee sings like his balls are in a vise and Steve Walsh sang like an angel! And Dust in the wind was a classic that will go down as such but I think Trees is lost and forgotten as it should be.

Date: Sun, August 29, 2010, 11:23:00 ET
Posted by: Answer, M

It's odd because he's touring as the 2nd violin, not the drummer.

Date: Sun, August 29, 2010, 10:53:55 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

OK, I'll bite:

Why is it "odd" that Carlock is touring with Mayer?

Date: Sun, August 29, 2010, 10:38:29 ET
Posted by: WJAZ, NC

Following the "Rock Steady" questions...
Hey 19, that's 'Retha Franklin...

Date: Sun, August 29, 2010, 07:48:10 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

Or is it THIS Rock Steady?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEouc2h_SBA

lol

Date: Sun, August 29, 2010, 00:13:00 ET
Posted by: Hmmmm....,

Did not know Keith C. Is touring w/John Mayer. Odd.

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 23:00:17 ET
Posted by: Jeff, San Jose

Or is it Stings Rock Steady?

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 22:32:49 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Cerpin Taxt,

Have you tried Howard Wright's website ?

http://www.hakwright.co.uk/steelydan/tab.html

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 17:16:50 ET
Posted by: Gary, Atlanta

Lurker Ray - IGY was not replaced with anything else. I was following along with the set list from 8/20, and when it was skipped, I thought surely it was going to be added back near the end with the string of hits (Lowdown, Takin' it to the Streets, Reelin'), but it didn't happen. Donald's voice sounded great, and like I said earlier, he was havin' fun, so I'm not sure why it was dropped and nothing else added in its' place. I, too, like you, hope it makes a return for folks with tickets to later shows. Having read the disappointing Atlanta reviews below, I know IGY would have definitely helped those fans whom felt slighted.

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 17:09:25 ET
Posted by: shark, florida room

it's funny how mixed the reviews are for the Dukes tour. I can understand the disappointment, but I thought it was an absolute treat to hear Donald covering artists like The Band, the Dead, and the Beach Boys. It's a little odd that Mike and Boz were so silent throughout the show while Donald does all the talking. I loved it though.

I would have loved to hear more Steely Dan tunes, but Don is definitely focusing on his solo material. he seems to be enjoying a break from the Dan. I've never seen him so relaxed and jazzed at the same time.



kzkzkz: thanks for posting those links. I was a big Howard Jones fan back in the 80s. never knew he covered IGY.

there's a gospel group who covered it a few years back and gave the lyrics a religious slant. can't think of their name, but I wonder what Donald thought of it. probably got a chuckle (and a royalty check to boot).

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 17:09:09 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Saint Augustine Beach

Here is a review of the Dukes from someone who actually might have a clue:

http://www.soundspike.com/reviews/tour/509-the_dukes_of_september_tour_dates_and_tickets_concert__the_dukes_of_september_in_danbury__ct.html

Excerpt:

"While the Dukes of September Rhythm Review is certainly a vehicle for the three Dukes, audiences coming to one of the many shows scheduled through early October should enjoy the entire package of great overall musicianship, and a songbook of material that sets this tour up as perhaps one of the most eclectic of the year."

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 16:16:18 ET
Posted by: Grippa48, NJ

Anyone meeting before the PNC bank Dukes concert?

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 12:18:36 ET
Posted by: Dukes of September?, I think I saw them but I don't remember

Mex, Home - Actually, there were 3 reviews by 3 separate fans. Don't know if correctly spelling names is a parameter for fandom (e.g. how many here have spelled it "Herrington").

That said, I'd be interested to see some a review of this tour by a journalist...I'm certain one will surface shortly.

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 10:18:55 ET
Posted by: BillfromPgh,

A bit off topic during the Dukes tour, but has anyone else run across this fine funk band featuring a certain familiar drummer?

http://www.myspace.com/adamklippledrivebyleslie

I just bought their latest as a download and am impressed with what I've heard so far, but I'm a sucker for organ-dominated, Meters-style funk.

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 08:46:50 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

Pixeleen - Parking is a definite hassle. It's in the back area of an office park so you have to find a space on the street, but since it's a Sunday they might open up some of the corporate lots for concert parking.

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 08:22:37 ET
Posted by: pixeleen,

OOPS!!!
Sorry, Hutch......my previous post is for you.

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 08:20:38 ET
Posted by: pixeleen,

We didn't get gold circle tix either.
Plan on getting there a bit before 6. Is parking a big hassle??
Will look for you around the soundboard.
Weather looks to be nice too.

See you there, I hope.

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 08:06:37 ET
Posted by: Mex, home

Fagan (sic), Skaggs (sic). You can tell this review came from a big fan of these artists.

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 07:07:30 ET
Posted by: Dukes of September?, I think I saw them but I don't remember

Here are a few fan review of the Dukes' concert in Atlanta:

"Just saw the Dukes of September - It was the most eclectic collection of non-essential songs I have heard at a concert with headliners. Poor production especially with the video portions. Had the potential because of the artists stable of songs to be great but lacked enthusiasm for the songs they chose to sing. If you want to hear these artists perform songs that you grew up with - this is not the show to go to. Only Donald Fagan spoke while Michael McDonald and Boz Skaggs interacted more with the backup singers singing duets than with the crowd. The entire night seemed disconnected. We left confused and disappointed! Georgia may not be each of these artists main fan base, but there were a lot of us there who expected them to bring it!"

"I thought the band sounded great, for what they did. It was a BORING show. The girls can SING, but nobody paid to see THEM. The camera men and director for the video showing on the big screens, need to find another line of work. Guitar and vocal solos were happening and the screen was showing something unrelated. Poor lighting. Not enough of their own hits which made them sound just like a really good cover band. I see no reason to pay top dollar for this show."

"Just saw group in Atlanta.
Stay away! Waste of money.
Poor song selection, and band.
Performance, and performers lackluster.
Go see each artist with their band.
Ill conceived tour."

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 02:55:58 ET
Posted by: Cerpin Taxt , Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!

Guitar

Date: Sat, August 28, 2010, 01:51:47 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Cerpin Taxt, which instrument are you using to play Gaucho ?

Date: Fri, August 27, 2010, 23:42:42 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

Kennel, God forbid the Dukes play that Rock Steady. :#)

I read somewhere it is Aretha Frankin's Rock Steady. For the sake of those attending the show, let's hope that it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXJx2NnnxA0

Date: Fri, August 27, 2010, 23:01:02 ET
Posted by: Kennel W., D.C.

Which Rock Steady are we talking about here? I'm 43 and this is the one we got down with at Howard U. Are the Dukes playin this one truly rocks I don't think they could hold it down


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPJz3syNbtE

Date: Fri, August 27, 2010, 22:18:11 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

EB,

Just out of curiosity, how old are your friends? I can't imagine anyone in their mid-to-late 40s and older not knowing almost all the tunes in the playlist I saw. Even younguns should be familiar with Rock Steady, Help me Rhonda, Them Changes, Rag Mama Rag, Don't Mess Up a Good Thing, Love Train...and that's before talking about the Don, Mike and Boz tunes.

Date: Fri, August 27, 2010, 21:14:00 ET
Posted by: Wayne J., Winston-Salem

I'd like to see more from Boz like Dinah Flo and Breakdown Dead Ahead before he went all soft with those schmaltzy ballads when he started going for sales volume.

As for this tour and show, it was so-so, maybe Ok at best. I am more of a Fagen fan than a Steely Dan person, actually. The best I can say is that one third of a Fagen is better than no Fagen. Don and most any artist today have become so greedy for money that few might never tour solo again like Fagen did for that short solo tour with excellent shows a few years back. By utilizing the drawing power of Boz and Mike he can sell more tickets and his one third money share is probably bigger than what he got from the solo tour due to higher sales, jacked up prices and not having to pay nine band members out of his own pocket, which he bitched about on his website. I think we can project into the future that we are going to be seeing a fraction of a Fagen, one half of a Steely Dan, and probably never a solo Steely Dan tour and highly unlikely to ever again see a solo Fagen tour due to the greed and the economics of the costs of touring in the music business to provide the highest profits. It really gets you down and sort of pissed off. But all music fans have got to get used to it.

Date: Fri, August 27, 2010, 20:25:30 ET
Posted by: WJAZ, NC

EB: here was the lineup of hits by the guys at Charlotte:
Donald: Green Flower Street, IGY, Reelin' In The Years...(though we are hearing he didn't do IGY in Atlanta...)
Boz: Miss Sun, Lowdown
Michael: I Keep Forgettin', What A Fool Believes, Takin' It To The Streets

Date: Fri, August 27, 2010, 19:50:07 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

Pixeleen - You bet I'll be there. Looks like the gates open at 6:00. We'll probably get there about then and hang out at the soundboard for a while and then move to the front of the standing area. We didn't get the golden circle seats. Show starts at 7:00.
Look for a gray-haired old fart with wire rim glasses and a gray cap with the Chinese symbol for Peace on the front.
See you at the show!

p.s. - I haven't heard about any Dukefests, so we're on our own!

Date: Fri, August 27, 2010, 18:56:23 ET
Posted by: EB, Denver

I have invited two buddies to see this show at Red Rocks. While I certainly will be digging every tune... I am a bit worried my friends...will be a bit turned off with the lack of hits. They have never seen any of these three great artists... and it looks like one SD song. One? Two Doobies. And One Boz hit. I might be missing some.

Don't get me wrong. I am all over this show. I will be digging it left and right. But I am worried my buddies will be pissed at the price of the ticket... to see the headliners.... and not hear the headliners... I hope they throw in at least 4 SD tunes. I hope to hear Minute by Minute (dig that tune a ton.) And of course Boz - Lido Shuffle would get people up and groovin.

I will start doing a bit of research on some of these tunes... And I will need to WARN my friends.. they will not be hearing many hits. Just sayin.

Date: Fri, August 27, 2010, 18:18:47 ET
Posted by: kzkzkz, Jonesing

Maybe The Donald dropped IGY because of this(?)-

www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOpgZVinu_o

What Happens In Vegas ... October 2nd, should still be cool.

I never knew Howard Jones remade IGY back in '93. Here's his original video:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYC8Ap_2jfU

And while I'm at it, an instrumental cover:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3TSBfw1vtQ

Hoping I copied the links correctly.

Date: Fri, August 27, 2010, 16:51:28 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Gary in Atlanta -

Thanks for the report.
So Donald dropped IGY in Atlanta?
Did he replace it with any thing?
Wonder why he dropped it? How was
Donald's voice? Hope it makes a
return.

Date: Fri, August 27, 2010, 10:28:03 ET
Posted by: pixeleen,

Hutch:

You WILL be at Innsbrook on sunday night, right??
Any news of a Dukes Fest gathering??

Can not wait to see the boys and girls :-)

Date: Fri, August 27, 2010, 08:18:55 ET
Posted by: I Wonder, Wonder

Are Scaggs and Steve Miller still friendly? Would be cool to have him join them for a song or two at one of these shows.

Date: Fri, August 27, 2010, 01:49:44 ET
Posted by: A. Michael Edwards, Asheville NC

Some random observations about Charlotte:

It was magical. DF was never more animated and was dead on and having a blast. Carolyn Leonhart is hot and never sounded better, especially soloing "Rock Steady". If someone would only market her, the sky is the limit.

Boz Scaggs is incredibly talented, and his talent meshes so well with DF and McDonald. I.G.Y performance was height of the show. That song is complex (especially live) and DF hit it perfectly.

McDonald was feeling it as well. Herrington his superb self. Weiskopf and M. Leonhart classic performances as Freddie.

Whoever conceived this plot to put these three talents together (maybe DF himself) is a genius. Go see this show if you are able.

Date: Fri, August 27, 2010, 01:30:59 ET
Posted by: shark, cheap hotel

nothingbutblues: really enjoyed your version of Rose Darlin. love that laid back open-sounding piano style.

you can hear my loopy 2-track take on Your Gold Teeth II here: http://www.myspace.com/rscottmurray

i need to have another stab at it

Date: Fri, August 27, 2010, 00:35:08 ET
Posted by: Gary, Atlanta

Real quick before I hit the hay. Good show in Atlanta. Same set list as all the others, except they dropped IGY, which was/is a disappointment. Anyway, Donald seemed to be really enjoying himself tonight. He was all over the place and was so much fun to watch. And, of course, his ad-libs got a lot of laughs. Boz and Michael were also top-notch. Michael really gave a great, stand-out performance on 'I Got News For You' and Boz was just plain excellent on all his tunes. Haven't read anything about the available swag, so for those interested, they have 4 or 5 different shirts and a poster. I was hoping for maybe a keychain or coffe mug, too, but the shirts and poster is all there be folks.

Date: Thurs, August 26, 2010, 23:31:21 ET
Posted by: One Benefit to Hoops Proposed Log-In ID..., YVR

Sayanora, Brain Strainer. Don't let the door, & etc.

Date: Thurs, August 26, 2010, 23:07:12 ET
Posted by: Cerpin Taxt , Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!

Sorry for the two-in-a-row, but I came across this:

http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/scorchVPE.asp?ppn=SC0091340

It's a nice start. Anyone want to collaborate on figuring out the rest?

Date: Thurs, August 26, 2010, 23:00:58 ET
Posted by: Cerpin Taxt , Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!

Working at Starbucks today, thought I was hearing Rikki Don't Lose That Number over the speakers.

Turns out it was Horace Silver's "Song for My Father." Almost more impressive to hear in Starbucks! Overall, the music is pretty great.

Anyways, does anybody have the chords for Gaucho? I've been messing around and figured out some of the basic triads, but I'd love to get the chords in all their extended phrasing glory.

Date: Thurs, August 26, 2010, 22:26:16 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,

Tonight's Strainer goes outside of the realm of the Dan and deals with The Grateful Dead. We usually refrain from venturing outside of the Dan, always endeavouring to keep things Dangential. But the Blue did in fact "Rise from the Dead", such that a Dead-dealing Strainer therefore becomes fair game.

The recent Bluebook discussions which have involved the Dead and the mention of a Mr. Mark Knopfler, another Dangential figure and performer on the song Time out of Mind, as well as some fans expressing interest in some later vintage Dead to be brought bsck and possibly covered on the the Dukes tour bring to mind two tunes that have a SONIC similarity, particularly on the keyboards. Although we will not go as far as to say that the later vintage Dead tune "Touch of Grey" was a DIRECT derivation of an earlier tune in the body of work of Mr. Knopfler--when you take into consideration all of this "Dangentiality" going on, and to paraphrase and old Zeppelin refrain....And it makes me wonder....

Name that tune.

Difficulty level is 4 out of 10.

Date: Thurs, August 26, 2010, 21:13:28 ET
Posted by: somebody, else

Barely recognizable as Rose Darling, but still well played.

Date: Thurs, August 26, 2010, 20:33:26 ET
Posted by: nothingbutblues, -

I was curios to see what Dan fans would think about piano renditions of Fagen/Becker, and decided to do a quick test recording of "Rose Darling".

https://sites.google.com/site/pianodemos/files/rose_darling.mp3

Any feedback would be much appreciated!

A.

Date: Thurs, August 26, 2010, 16:27:19 ET
Posted by: WJAZ, NC

Richard, same set list in Charlotte as the other concerts...

Date: Thurs, August 26, 2010, 16:25:32 ET
Posted by: WJAZ, NC

I am probably in the minority here, but the concert left me wanting "FM", "Jojo", and others...
It was a great concert at Charlotte and I landed seats about 50 feet from Fagen...
I am glad I went and it was obvious everyone on stage is having a great time. I think folks still look for those mass appeal songs that the artist made famous, during a lull, we heard someone shout, "PLAY A HIT!"... Miss Sun got a great response, as did "IGY", "Lowdown" and others...
Just my opinion, but it seemed like "Rock Steady" and "Help Me Rhonda" got the greatest responses of the non Fagen/Scaggs/McDonald tunes...

Date: Thurs, August 26, 2010, 11:55:21 ET
Posted by: shark, nothin' shakin'

later Grateful Dead...

from the late 70s there's Terrapin Station, Shakedown Street, and Go To Heaven. these all contain some great songs with somewhat sterile production that some may actually prefer.

also check out Jerry Garcia's classic Cats Under The Stars from this period. great stuff... the title cut is a Classic.

Date: Thurs, August 26, 2010, 09:00:21 ET
Posted by: richardgpw, DETROIT

fagenism asked, "What would be a good, later Dead album to start out with?"

I suggest the Live multi-CD 'Without A Net' for the simple fact that Branford Marsalis' saxaphone addition on that Birdsong is one of the best........and the Dear Mr. Fantasy encore is tasty:)

I Also would suggest 'Dozin At The Knick'(another Live compilation)-it has some really nice jazzy jams(inc. an awesome '"Mud Love Buddy Jam") ... from the only ones capable :) from there, the possibilities are endless...........ENJOY ~!

Date: Thurs, August 26, 2010, 08:47:29 ET
Posted by: richardgpw, DETROIT!

WHO'S GOT LAST NIGHT'S SETILST AND REVIEW ?? :)

Date: Thurs, August 26, 2010, 02:42:02 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Thanks for the report Shark!

There's been much talk lately
about "great song writing",
tonight I saw Jimmy Webb at
the tiny Coronet on La Cienega.
What a show!. Now that "Jeemy
Webb" - as Richard Harris used
to call him - can write some tunes!

Night of great stories & song.
Just Jimmy and a piano. His new
album, "Just Across The River"
is great and features Jackson
Browne, Billy Joel, Mark Knopfler
and many others.

http://www.cbs.com/late_night/late_show/video/?pid=16ePkW3MZzWCjFc3F2yazoOcEpYbF07q&nrd=1

In the crowd, Christopher Cross,
and Gerry Beckley & Dewey Bunnell
from the band, "America".

http://www.jimmywebb.com/performances.html

Date: Thurs, August 26, 2010, 01:54:13 ET
Posted by: Shark DeVille, just in from Charlotte

saw the Dukes tonight... what a blast!

check it out if you get the chance. I've never seen Donald so animated or just plain happy as he was tonight. He was having a ball and it was contagious. He's basically playing MC too and really having fun with it. I lost track of how many times he referred to Mike as "White Lightnin" hahaha

the band is phenomenal of course with a couple new faces for me. nice to see the horn section adding those 2 flutes on some of the Scaggs tunes.

Very cool to hear the Don performing Grateful Dead and Beach Boy tunes, two of my other all-time favorites. and The Band medley was killer. this is just a damn good time people!

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 22:58:08 ET
Posted by: TheFez, Boston

It's interesting how many Dan fans are RUSH fans. I've been a Dan fan since a guitarist friend spun his older brothers album 'Countdown to Ecstasy' back in the day and a RUSH fan since a drummer friend spun side 4 of 'All the Worlds a Stage' '79 or so. Looking forward to Don's show in a couple of weeks and RUSH at The Vault in September. Awesome to hear Neil attended an SD show. Don's show is on a work day but we hope to get into the city earlier enough to head over to Jacob Wirth's for one or two or three.

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 21:42:00 ET
Posted by: test, test

test

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 21:29:21 ET
Posted by: Chan, Boston

Its been some time since I have posted and I hope all my Steely friends are well.

I did want to let everyone know that we are planning a DonMcBoz or as Denise just named a DukesFest for next Tuesday evening here in Boston. We will be meeting at Jacob Wirths on Stuart Street at around 5PM. This is close walking distance to the Citi Center. Many of us met there last summer before the Internet Night Rent Party show. They were very accomodating and we had a great time.

Continued thanks to Hoops for hosting this site and bringing a lot of very cool people together.

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 18:32:40 ET
Posted by: SF Dan Fan, SF

I saw RUSH perform Moving Pictures earlier this motnh and absolutely loved it. I went with my compadre and he too referened the SD influence with a whole album done in one show.

The only problem i had was the chessy video before the album started. That I could have done without. BUT when they started in on Tom Sawyer, that feeling quickly went out the window.

I love that Peart went to se SD. Great minds think alike.

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 17:43:52 ET
Posted by: Young Wu, For the Rush fans seeing them live this summer...

From a recent interview:

"But there are some new twists to the show, one of which, of course, is playing "Moving Pictures" in its entirety during the second set.

Peart proposed the idea of doing an entire album after he saw Steely Dan on a recent tour.

"He was really impressed with the fact that they were doing different albums night to night," Lifeson says. "That's perhaps a little ambitious for us." "

---------------------------------------------------------

So thank you, Steely Dan. Not only did you give me a great show last November in Toronto, but you allowed me to see another great show in Toronto last month.

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 13:25:24 ET
Posted by: Ben, Indy

Hey Josh,

Big Ups for the Burning Spear mention in your post! Along with Steely Dan and The Allman Brothers Band, Mr. Winston Rodney a.k.a. Burning Spear, is simply amazing. Mr. Rodney doesn't get the respect he deserves as a living legend, so please check out burningspear.net sometime and listen to his true reggae music.

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 12:52:17 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt , Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!

Two things I love about My Old School:

1. The way Donald sings "Guadalajara."

2. The final "And I'm never going back" ~4:25, in all it's syncopated glory.

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 12:16:48 ET
Posted by: Josh B., Orange County

Thanks Hoops! Awesome post. I agree wholeheartedly that SD's lyrics are way deeper than the Dead's. Definietly looking forward to DF's take on Shakedown Street. I would love also to hear what he could do with Estimated Prophet. Burning Spear did an awesome reaggae version and I think that Donald could tear this song up as well.

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 11:16:39 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Dean--

How can you not like Jerry's and all the amazing guitars on the Grateful Dead's version of "Shakedown"? That's one track I have to allow 30 minutes to listen to because I will play it like six or seven times in a row. Hypnotic, beyond disco.

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 11:14:46 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Dear Friends;

Thank you for your support with the switch to a new dandom.com server, especially those of you who bought me time to get things together here and personally. If all goes well, the switch will be complete by September 1, if for no other reason than I don't want to pay another month's rent at the old place.

For the time being, things won't be much different except one thing: the BlueBook, compared to exactly as it is now, will function a little differently. I have to use a different script. The new one has the option of having all posters log in. Before Sunday when there was that discussion about the naughty recordings, I was just going to skip that. But now I'm wondering. For the longest time we did not have passwords nor checked identities because it would keep some anons with useful information from posting (i.e. concert dates, release info, other rumors). Now I'm wondering if it's not also the opposite: other fans with useful info post to other forums and Facebook instead of here because they know they won't be harassed by masked anons.

So please EMAIL me your thoughts to hoopsATdandomDOTcom

===

As I've said many times before, the similarities between the Grateful Dead and Steely Dan are that both seek to push audio technology to the max, but in completely opposite contexts. SD sought this in the studio and not by touring, while the Grateful Dead are known best for their concerts. Both the GD and SD drew on the spirit of Jazz: For the GD, this was through jaz improv and unpredictability in search for a certain moment of sonic ecstasy; for SD, it was rather Ellingtonian in approach: musicians perform note-for-note but are given spots to stretch, the excitement coming in that each performance is wholly perfect. Underneath it all, you knew that both the GD and SD would be musicians even if they weren't making money.

Regarding the Grateful Dead's studio recordings: I love Hunter's as well as Barlow's lyrics, but, really, Steely Dan's lyrics have so much more depth and, well, are so more clever. But take "From tHe Mars Hotel", substitute horns for steel guitar, and it's not too much a sonic soundscape from that of EMG. And sorry, as much of a Deadhead I am, more often than not, there a GD studio album features a couple of throwaways.

One of the recent interviews quoted Donald as saying the GD's "Shakedown Street" attempts to "cash in" on the success of disco at the time it was recorded--perhaps so, but when I read that, I thought, "not much more than 'The Fez'."

As I've said perhaps too many times before, the BlueBook traces its lineage to rec.music.gdead and the many Deadheads blaring Steely Dan albums in Grateful Dead parking lot scene. In 1993, "Kamakiriad" was the Grateful Dead's house music during their concerts' intermissions.

Enjoy the shows and let us know the highlights.

Best,

Jim

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 11:14:32 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

As a casual Dead fan, I never liked Shakedown Street very much. Far too much disco/too commercial for The Dead, IMO.

But (based on the bits I have heard on youtube and such from the Levon Helm gigs) I like what Don has done with it. Funked it up a bit, background singers, some wailing electric guitar...it has a great feel. I can even listen to the original Dead version now and enjoy it.

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 10:28:26 ET
Posted by: Josh B., Orange County

Fagenism, I wrote the below post a few days ago but it got either passed or lost in the shuffle due to all the comments on the set lists:

Perhaps this has been said before on the bluebook or out in the far reaching universe of cyber space, but when I listen to the studio albums the Grateful Dead recorded in the late 70's up to their last in the early 90's, I draw comparisons to SD. Songs like "West L.A. Fadeaway" and especially "Shakedown Street," have always been songs I would love to hear Don cover and put his spin upon. Hopefully I can hear Shakedown at the Greek.

Check our Terrapin Station, Shakedown Street, In the Dark and Built to Last and you will hear some great similarities between SD and the Dead. Most Dead fans pan these studio albums as the band in their opinion was a much better live band. I am in no way a Dead Head but do appreciate their sound on these albums as a Steely Dan fan.

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 10:06:43 ET
Posted by: KD, Lafayette, IN

"There is a version of Donald doing I Got News For You floating around."

And it is fantastic. How they got such a crackin' horn chart/performance in such a tiny place, Donald's vocal, all very brilliant.

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 08:30:28 ET
Posted by: fagenism, -

GETTING INTO THE GRATEFUL DEAD.

After learning that Don was covering "Shakedown Street" during this tour, I decided to check out the original. I quickly realized I absolutely loved it, and need to expose myself to more Dead material. (I was previously only familiar with their early hits.)

What would be a good, later Dead album to start out with?

Date: Wed, August 25, 2010, 06:22:03 ET
Posted by: RK, X

There is a version of Donald doing I Got News For You floating around.

Date: Tues, August 24, 2010, 23:25:58 ET
Posted by: geo,

Lurker Ray- MM did "I Got News For You" in Danbury...Not DF

Date: Tues, August 24, 2010, 23:21:54 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

So apparently Donald also did
"I Got The News" opening night
in Danbury?

Or was this reviewer confused
when he read his notes later
and read "Got News For You"
which is being done by Mike?

???????????????????????????

http://www.soundspike.com/reviews/tour/509-the_dukes_of_september_tour_dates_and_tickets_concert__the_dukes_of_september_in_danbury__ct.html

Date: Tues, August 24, 2010, 20:30:25 ET
Posted by: Don Patrol, Mtl

re:"Caves" by cover bands. In Montreal, there's a band called "Babylon Sister". They cover Caves.I don't know if the clip you are referring to is them, but check out some of their covers on youtube.13 piece replica band. Have seen them many times live,and they get better each performance. I also have no connection to the band beyond liking the music.

Date: Tues, August 24, 2010, 18:24:28 ET
Posted by: Wooly Man Without A Face, Caves of Altamira

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y61m2Qh5O48


I'm really, really impressed. Difficult song to tackle and they nailed it on the head, I think. I've got nothing to do with these guys, just stumbled upon the video because I had the song stuck in my head. Never thought I'd find a cover of THAT one.

Date: Tues, August 24, 2010, 16:50:12 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston! SCRATCH THAT! NEW YORK

VIA Lefsetz Letter: http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2010/08/23/a-bit-more-mellencamp/

"I got the following e-mail:

From: William Nollman

This has nothing to do with Crowded House but I saw a funny show this week at the Ives in Danbury.

It was Donald Fagen, Boz Scaggs and Mike McDonald. You would expect a slick reprise of the great Rock and Soul Revue show from the 90s that I was lucky enough to catch at the Beacon.

But it was the first show of the tour and completely LOOSE.

The crazy and most entertaining thing was the song list. Of course they did some catalog songs. But Boz covered a Mink DeVille song, they opened with Lee Michaels’ Heighty Hi, did Them Changes, Teddy Pendergrass’ Love TKO, a Band medley (Caledonia Mission- Fagen, Rag Mama Rag- Boz, The Shape I’m In-MM), a few obscure r&b tunes… they did HELP ME RHONDA as one of the encores!

But the nuttiest thing and real jaw dropper of the evening was Fagen calling out and singing Shakedown Street by the Grateful Dead. Somewhere Jerry is smiling that the most maligned band of all time was somehow legitimized by the El Exigente of rock.

They were not tight or in great voice but it felt like a great wedding reception with a sick cover band.

Doesn’t this make you want to go to the show? I figured it was old farts on the road trying to make a buck when they can no longer make money from their old acts. Instead, it’s something new, it’s radio artists who built their careers on precision stretching out, improvising! This sounds like FUN!

And if tickets were cheap enough, business would be good. If people knew about it.

This concoction should have been the house band on Letterman for a week. Not because anybody watches, but because the newspaper and web would be chock full of stories about it, which would reach the target audience, ultimately driving success."

Date: Tues, August 24, 2010, 14:29:43 ET
Posted by: Matt, Chattanooga, TN

About Caledonia Mission, Barney Hoskyns said...

Rick (Danko) sings the verses in a typically bumpkin-sincere voice, with purring falsetto support from Richard (Manuel), then lets rip on a chorus Steely Dan might have written had they hailed from somewhere below the Mason-Dixon line.

Nice to hear Donald doing it in a union of my two favorite bands of all time.

Date: Tues, August 24, 2010, 13:11:45 ET
Posted by: RF, Sim

I guess the Australian tour is off.

Date: Tues, August 24, 2010, 12:44:22 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower

from a new Rolling Stone interview with Donald Fagen:


Any plans to continue touring with the Dukes after these dates?
We're gonna do some more Dukes dates in December. There's been a lot of requests for these shows and now that people have seen them, we're getting lots of requests to do more. It's a real summer party kind of a show.


http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/17386/194399

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 22:02:01 ET
Posted by: Greg M, White Plains, NY

Hutch,

e-mail me privately. I have a question for you. Thanks.

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 21:16:20 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

Ben - Yes Hoops' idea is a dream concert. Could it really happen? I don't know... but I'd really hate the idea of people going for beer or whatever during Walt's solo set. Circus Money stands as one of the best albums they've released and there's no question about that. And 11tracks ain't no slouch by any means.
Did you see any of the Fagen solo shows? I caught the Warner Theatre show in D.C. and they did Snowbound and MSTGD. Mary was pretty transcendental believe me. I think Freddie Washington had just joined the SD touring band at that time and he was nailing WB's bass work on Snowbound pretty damn well.
Funny side note related to the discussion here lately... When we went to the DF show in D.C. the owner of our shop sat with us. Before the show he noticed that the guy sitting in front of him had a wire coming up from the back of his collar. So he tapped him on the shoulder and asked if he was recording the show to which he replied "yes"! So he gave the guy his card and asked if he would send him a copy of the show. He said sure, no problem. We never received anything from the guy.
So it goes.

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 20:17:10 ET
Posted by: The X Factor, Minneapolis

LOVE the 8-Bit stuff... very impressive! Any other songs remade in 8-bit / Mario Paint out there?

Here's a pretty cool rendition of Bodhisattva done on Mario Paint:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGe2YWhQFZs

Enjoy!

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 20:15:47 ET
Posted by: tony, new jersey by the beach

To Ben
there is no opening act. the opening song is by the band without the 3 "dukes". Sookie Sookie.. it is an excellent show. i thought Boz and Michael were more in the spotlight than Don, but they all were in good form. the Borgota show was a little bit over 2 hours long. they covered songs that surprised me. The Band, Grateful Dead, Teddy Pendergast, Aretha Franklin, The Beach Boys, Band of Gypsies, Ray Charles, Muddy Waters. they each did a couple of their own songs too. I loved it all. But if you want their greatest hits, this is not what you are going to see. the girls are spotlighted and deliver big time. i am going to try to hit PNC in N.J. in 2 weeks. i work closeby and want to see more of this show

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 18:31:45 ET
Posted by: Ben, Indy

I'm glad the tour's off to a great start. Is there an opening act, or do the Dukes start the show on the dot? Also, does Donald break out the melodica? I dig Hoops' idea for the 2011 SD tour featuring solo sets. I'd especially love to hear: Hat Too Flat and Upside Looking Down from Walt, and Maxine, Snowbound, and Mary Shut the Garden Door from Donald.

The Indy Jazz Fest's coming up next month.

Check: http://www.indyjazzfest.net/

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 18:03:42 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

ty,

Let me tell you a little story
because you obviously are new here.
When I first found this site in late
2005 I think it was. I used to get
into it with hoops because I didn't
understand why we couldn't tell people
where to get quality Steely Dan boots.

I even found an article in Rolling Stone
where Donald Fagen was showing a clip he
recorded of Mick Jagger at a Stones concert
in MSG on his cell phone. "Donald Fagen
IS a taper!" I cried, "Why can't we share
boots here"?!!!

But.....you have to step back and look at
BIGGER picture ty.

So in a nutshell, "Why do I now "give a shit"?
Because if too many popular Steely Dan sites
like this one "broadcast" where to get the "shit",
then the "shit" gets yanked by the "Black Ops"
and then it's gone and no one can enjoy it.

So as hoops likes to say, "Fly low".

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 16:47:48 ET
Posted by: Fife, Baltimore, eh

The Dukes of September was the best show I've seen this year! The band was really tight and I really loved the mix that they picked out. Donald was truly enjoying himself bopping and dancing to pretty well every tune. Boz and Mike McD were awesome and I really enjoyed Boz's "Lowdown" man he's got a sexy voice. Carolyn and Catherine were truly amazing and it was nice that they were showcased through out the show. Sam and I got really lucky, it was a first come first serve venue and we ended up in the second row right in front of Donald on his Stienway! We were so close that when Donald ran his hand through his hair because it was so hot we could see it standing on end for the rest of the show LOL. I didn't post the set list because a) I'm terrible with song titles and b) Girl Margret's post below is exactly what they played. This was a very intimate venue a stage plunked in a middle of a field, quite appropriate for the Dead tune "Shakedown Street" that they played. I wish I could head to another show but that's just not going to happen this time around.

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 16:28:07 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

Yeah, just finished the track, and that Chris Potter solo was like 99% accurate ... I wonder how this was done?

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 16:23:46 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

hey, whoever created that did his or her homework -- pretty sure every part is represented more or less correctly. pretty impressive when you think about it.

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 16:22:40 ET
Posted by: Web search, ws

I love Fagen's answer here.

Q: Could each of you flash back to a favorite tour from the past and say why it was special?

Fagen: I don't know if we can actually do that in public



http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/ats/entertainment/article_60e4a2db-078d-5374-8a6f-ec5cfd7860bd.html

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 15:41:47 ET
Posted by: Inquiring Minds, not VA

Any reports from the Loudon, VA show? Odd not to hear a peep from those rabid Balt-DC area fans...

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 14:51:50 ET
Posted by: Napoleon, UK

Bernie - You're not impressed? I obviously wasted too much of my youth playing Two Against Nature for the NES.

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 13:07:12 ET
Posted by: Bernie,

Napoleon- "Kind of works" for who? Certainty not for me.

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 12:10:17 ET
Posted by: Napoleon, UK

Anyone seen this? 8-bit Gaslighting Abbie. Kind of works...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6_2cjgPMaw

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 09:18:24 ET
Posted by: hoops, on the quick

Ty;

I've spent easily five-figures on Steely Dan through the years, not to mention thousands of hours. Yeah. I'm sure even Becker and Fagen have boots of their favorites as does everyone here. Back sometime ago, some 14 years ago, SD.com even once had a link to a site that 'had a few naughty ones". On the other hand, they pulled that and don't offer since.

But as I've said time and time again, I don't care what you do elsewhere, but don't offer or suggest them here for a number of different reasons, not unlike those who used to trip out at Dead shows, shouting "anyone got acid?" As per another site I follow but don't run, once one stays then dozens stay.

Above all that, I grateful that Lurker Ray and couple of others who email me respect my position for that, regardless if they agree or disagree. The ultimate problem is once one offer for boots stays, then dozens of offerings and requests have to stay. I can't follow that.

I appreciate Lurker Ray's good will and I don't like the disrespect shown by Q, Ty, etc.

Jim

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 08:44:55 ET
Posted by: Dan Historian, stateside

Previous SD/Help Me Rhonda connection.

1989 World Series. With Oakland routing the Giants and Ricky Henderson at bat, Al Michaels said that Ricky's mom got a new phone number and wrote it down for him and told him "Ricky don't lose that number."

After a few seconds of dead silence, he exclaimed "Help me Rhonda!"

Date: Mon, August 23, 2010, 08:37:42 ET
Posted by: ty,

Q- Thanks you for posting those rare RS outtakes. I saved them to my computer.

Lurker Ray- We are all fans here. We wait years for gems like this to pop up. We've spent hundreds and thousands of dollars on CD's, shows and repacked CD's with the same songs. Can we get thrown a bone once in awhile?

Lurker Ray, what do you get for policing this site? Free tickets? Back stage passes? Probably nothing, so why do you give a shit? Are you afraid that D or W might have to sell one of their homes on the Gulf Coast if this stuff gets out? Give me a break!

Date: Sun, August 22, 2010, 23:56:01 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Many thanks to S.P., Lurker Ray and many others.

Jim

Date: Sun, August 22, 2010, 17:27:07 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Ah, I got you now. Sort of like a Rock & Roll Soul Revue II kind of thing.

In the interim we'll just have to wait a while and see what Donald comes up with. I agree regarding another Steely Dan tour -- they would be better served making a new album to support it, as well as drawing from their solo efforts. They've pretty much done it all already and if they go on tour again without an added incentive, it diminishes the appeal for a lot of folks, i.e. touring 'just for the sake of touring'. Blah.

Given the space in time between now and EMG, being creative minds, they should be able to compose new material. But before any of that, take things one step at a time and await the arrival of new solo Donald Fagen album. Hope that this tour is invigorating and that the positive experience rubs off on the new one. A more free Donald, if you will, not simply creating out of obligation to the label but enjoying the process.

Date: Sun, August 22, 2010, 17:20:51 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

ty -

If you have to ask "Why is Q an idiot"?
then you must not be very smart and/or you
don't spend much time here.

I'm sure Q's idiotic and careless post
will be removed shortly as soon as hoops
sees it or someone informs hoops that
the smart policy of this site has been
violated.

Date: Sun, August 22, 2010, 15:53:36 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Q -

Listen, YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

Hopefully hoops will see your post
and delete it.

Fly low, fool.

Date: Sun, August 22, 2010, 11:15:16 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

I wrote last night:

" I have a feeling they will come to NYC eventually to do an album. At least they should do some album. No inside word on this or anything--just my fantasy. "

Sorry I wasn't explicit enough: By "they" I meant The Dukes of September. I don't see another Steely Dan studio album in the future. I wouldn't be completely shocked if THE DUKES added a few dates in NYC (Manhattan) to record one of their DUKES shows like they did with the New York Rock and Soul Revue. Or maybe be The Dukes would cull an album from their current list of dates across the U.S. You never know.

I've heard a lot of positive feedback about the first Dukes shows, and it's great to hear Donald appears loose and happy. Really, though, underneath it all, I sense what we all want is to again hear tracks from those three Fagen solo albums, as well as tracks from Walter's two.

I've heard fans say that playing the albums in their entirety were the hook they needed to pay the going ticket prices to see SD for a fourth summer in a row. Then those fans go on to ask what could Steely Dan do next?--they seem to have done it all. If Steely Dan wants to hook us again for next summer, they should mix it up by having Becker and Fgaen each playing solo sets and then coming back for 10-12 Steely Dan tracks.

I know some--beyond us hardcore fans-- want to hear The Nightfly in its entirety and that would be swell; but I don't think DF wants to tour by himself again and I don't think Walter wants to sit in for a whole solo Fagen album. I don't think the other SD albums not played in entirety nor the other SD albums (save for what has been played) would hook fans again.

Let's face it: with three (potentially four) solo albums by Don and two by Walter, there are SIX albums our Heroes Becker and Fagen are not drawing from, while they have pretty much explored what they will from the nine Steely Dan studio albums. We fans would go nuts to hear tracks from those six solo albums--I think solo sets from Fagen and Becker followed by a Steely Dan set could be a winner for 2011.


Just my two piasters. Many thanks for indulging my rambles and rantings.

Jim

Date: Sun, August 22, 2010, 09:23:24 ET
Posted by: Dave, NJ

Back from Borgata. Biggest complaint, of course, is that it was a casino crowd with the usual high percentage of late arrivals and early departures. It was compounded by the fact that I was in the first row of the rear section with all the comings and goings taking place in front of me. I've seen just about every combination of these three imaginable (Fagen solo, Boz solo, Boz & MM, MM & Fagen w/ Steely Dan, etc.) Here I thought Scaggs was the most prominent of the three, both in terms of stage presence and number of vocal leads. Fagen, aside from being the one doing the (limited) banter between songs, was probably the least noticeable. I think they found the right mix between covers and their original material, although I never found Green Flower Street to be the best choice for these shows. The opening bars of IGY got a much better crowd acknowledgment, probably the best of any song that night. Met up with a few people from the blue for something to eat after the show, and about half of the band came in as we were finishing.

Date: Sun, August 22, 2010, 06:23:22 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Wait a second hoops. Donald hasn't even released his new solo album yet and you're already talking about a new Steely Dan album. Wouldn't that have to wait until after Donald's album? Speaking of which, we don't know much about it -- Donald hasn't been forthcoming with news. "...More lighthearted in tone than MTC," or so I heard.

Date: Sun, August 22, 2010, 04:50:01 ET
Posted by: shecky, what's that down there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx8egFhG8oE

Our heroes talking and being funny :)

Date: Sun, August 22, 2010, 00:30:00 ET
Posted by: Fox News, Dukes of September

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCVuKlt1QjA

Date: Sun, August 22, 2010, 00:29:54 ET
Posted by: hoops, on the quick

In 2000 & 1994, they didn't play NYC either (as Steely Dan), but they did play PNC and Jones Beach in 2000. 1994 was really like 1993's tour continued.

I have a feeling they will come to NYC eventually to do an album. At least they should do some album. No inside word on this or anything--just my fantasy.

Goodnight!

Jim

Date: Sat, August 21, 2010, 20:40:57 ET
Posted by: Girl Margaret, Home at last

Tripel: That's correct, no NYC. And can I just say thank god, because I miss going to Jones Beach and PNC, and Beacon prices are ridiculously overpriced.

Ray: There was some dancing going on, mostly towards the end of the show (although people started getting groovy during Lowdown). I, too, have mastered the art of dancing in my seat, especially when I'm wearing a dress I can barely walk in much less dance in. Besides, the casino shows are never really the sort of place where there's a lot of dancing going on. HOWEVER, when they did Love Train, there were a couple of people who formed an albeit short train and started dancing up the aisle.

Date: Sat, August 21, 2010, 18:52:32 ET
Posted by: Dukes, reviews

http://www.soundspike.com/reviews/tour/509-the_dukes_of_september_tour_dates_and_tickets_concert__the_dukes_of_september_in_danbury__ct.html

Date: Sat, August 21, 2010, 16:17:45 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. It's Happy Hour, Motherfucker!

"Don'tknow how people can "sit" in theirseats with a sexy & swingin' setlist like that!"

Ray, you have to lean to "chair dance". I dance while I'm driving!

Date: Sat, August 21, 2010, 15:46:45 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Thanks for the excellent report
and the in-depth setlist GM!

No doubt the ladies love Boz!

Very cool that he & Jon are
pairing up on "Reeling '72".
So funny how Donald has made
a total "180" on how he used
to feel about doing the original
arrangement of that tune!

Was there much dancing going on
at the Borgata last night? Don't
know how people can "sit" in their
seats with a sexy & swingin' setlist
like that!

Date: Sat, August 21, 2010, 13:42:27 ET
Posted by: Tripel, NYC

Wow, i didnt even know this was happening!
and is it true that there's no NYC show?
Stubhub has PNC Arts and Jones beach as closest ...no Beacon???

Date: Sat, August 21, 2010, 11:20:51 ET
Posted by: Josh B., OC

Perhaps this has been said before on the bluebook or out in the far reaching universe of cyber space, but when I listen to the studio albums the Grateful Dead recorded in the late 70's up to their last in the early 90's, I draw comparisons to SD. Songs like "West L.A. Fadeaway" and especially "Shakedown Street," have always been songs I would love to hear Don cover and put his spin upon. Hopefully I can hear Shakedown at the Greek.

Date: Sat, August 21, 2010, 09:41:03 ET
Posted by: Security Joan, Philly

Concur w. Girl Margaret! What a show last night ... far exceeded my expectations (which were pretty high). The band was tight, and Carolyn & Catherine burned up the stage. What was especially great was that everyone -- especially Donald -- seemed to be having so damn much fun. He was downright ebullient. Add to that the surprises like Beach Boys for encore and Michael on ukulele and it all rolled up into a priceless experience. Originally was just planning to go to just Borgata and Milwaukee, but I'm already finagling a way to hit at least one more of the East Coast venues!

Date: Sat, August 21, 2010, 09:35:44 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

Thanks to Margaret and Hoops.

Sounds like a killer show. I may have to find a way to get to Atlanta on the 26th.

Date: Sat, August 21, 2010, 00:09:57 ET
Posted by: Girl Margaret, Borgata

SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS! Set list from the Borgata! When I was texting Hoops, I was guessing several song titles that I was not familiar with, but the LD gave me the set list after the show, so here it is:



Sookie Sookie (girls)
Heighty Hi (all)
Don't Mess Up A Good Thing (Catherine Russell and Michael "White Lightnin'" McDonald)
Shakedown Street (Don on leads)
You Never Can Tell (Boz)
I Got News For You (Mike)
Green Flower Street
Miss Sun (Boz and Carolyn)
I Keep Forgetting (Mike)
Rock Steady (Carolyn tore this shit UP)
Caledonia Mission (Don)
Rag Mama Rag (Boz)
The Shape I'm In (all)
Love TKO (Boz)
Cadillac Walk (Boz)
IGY
What a Fool Believes (Mike)
I Love the Life I Love (Cat)
Lowdown (Boz, both saxes played flutes)
Takin It To The Street (Mike and Cat)
Reelin in the Years (1972 version)
Love Train (all)
Encores:
Help Me Rhonda (Don doing Brian Wilson is precious)
Them Changes (Mike)
Sookie Sookie as outro (girls)

The show was a lot better than I expected. Nice to see everyone onstage a once instead of off and on. Nothing is sexier than Boz's voice, it turns my knees to jelly everytime, but Herington comes damn close. Girls tore their vocals UP, sounded so amazing. Jim Beard was the king of cool, Don played piano and two melodicas, Boz played rhythm guitar and traded leads with Herington (they both played Reelin, it was HOTT), and who the fuck knew Mike played banjo and ukelele???? Mike White was a fab drummer, loved the baritone sax, loved the whole show, loved the company, loved my section, love my Danfriends, can't wait for Boston, BOZ IS SEXY!!!! Thanks for taking my texts Hoops!!!

Date: Fri, August 20, 2010, 22:45:37 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Disabling the Twitter Crawl on this page until the next show that can be tweeted. Here are the recent tweets:

On Thursday, August 19, Pete Fogel texted the following which were Tweeted along to @dandomdotcom:

• Well, we won't be getting all the details BUT... P. txt'd me that a kick-ass IGY was performed! I'm giddy--and I'm not even there!
• Girl Margaret and others have agreed to Tweet tomorrow's Atlantic City setlist
• Pete reports: IGY into What a Fool Believes! Awesome!
• What a fucking night!
• P: "Tweet this! Cat Russell is stealing the show! What a night!"

On Friday, August 20, Girl Margaret texted the following which were Tweeted along to @dandomdotcom; if you click the times--all of which are loosely relative to the time of this post plus 30 minutes--you will be brough to the original Tweet at Twitter.com:

• Girl Margaret texting to hoops who tweets them to you! Good thing. Kat and mike white lightning mcd duet. wooohooo! about an hour ago
• "Girl Margaret" will be abbreviated GM. 52 minutes ago
• GM: "Good Thing" by Catherine Russell and Mike McDonald bteween 8:00 and 8:30 ET 50 minutes ago
• GM: Donald lead vocals on the Grateful Dead's "Shakedown Street" 50 minutes ago
• GM: Boz does "You Never Can Tell" 50 minutes ago
• GM: MikeMcD does Ray Charles' "You Never Can Tell" 49 minutes ago
• GM: Donald leads on "Greenflower Street" 48 minutes ago
• GM: Boz leads on "Miss Sun" 48 minutes ago
• GM: Mike McD leads on "I Keep Forgettin'" 48 minutes ago
• GM: Carolyn L-E does "Rock Steady". GM says, "Hell, fuckin' yeah!" 47 minutes ago
• GM: The Dukes do The Band's "Caledonia..." 47 minutes ago
• GM: Mike McD plays banjo and Boz does vocals..."Rag Mamma Rag" (?) 45 minutes ago
• GM: Mike McD does a Band song 45 minutes ago
• GM: Boz does "Love TKO" 44 minutes ago
• GM: Saxes on flutes! 44 minutes ago
• GM: Next a the Willie Deville song, "Cadillac Walk" with DF on melodica. 42 minutes ago
• hoops: here's a YouTube video of Willie Deville performing "Cadillac Walk": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJLKw9lGsjM 42 minutes ago
• GM: Donald does IGY 41 minutes ago
• GM: Catherine Russel ("Cat") does a Miuddy Waters song. 41 minutes ago
• GM: Cat's doing "Muddy Waters - I Love The Life I Live, I Live The Life I Love" 38 minutes ago
• hoops: here's a YouTube video of Muddy Waters performing "I Love The Life I Live,..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hN9v46TyDQ 38 minutes ago
• GM: Boz on "Lowdown" 37 minutes ago
• GM: Mike McD: "What a Fool Believes" 34 minutes ago
• hoops: YouTube video of The Band's "Caledonia Mission" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0JaSwnXYF8 30 minutes ago
• hoops: YouTube Video of Freddy Pendergrass's "Love TKO" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV9VuPkIIv4 28 minutes ago
• hoops: I'm assuming Carolyn did Aretha Frankin's "Rock Steady" -- here's a YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiB8_PpWedk 26 minutes ago
• hoops: YouTube video of The Band's "Rag Mama Rag" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHy_XeBMagU 24 minutes ago
• GM: "Reelin' In The Years" 23 minutes ago
• GM: "Love Train" 23 minutes ago
• hoops: YouTube videos of O'Jay's "Love Train": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQvmCzILBfE & also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvsAqkOhI48 20 minutes ago
• GM: Boz on lead vocals on "Love Train" 18 minutes ago
• GM: The Dukes exit before the encore. The crowd is going Apeshit! 17 minutes ago
• GM: "Dukes! Dukes! Dukes!" They are cheering! 17 minutes ago
• GM: They have come back on stage. Mike McD has a ukelele. Who knew he was so versatile? 16 minutes ago
• GM: Encore: "Help Me Rhonda" with Donald on leads 16 minutes ago
• hoops: GM says Mike McD with vox on lyrics "She got me runnin' she got me hidin'" 7 minutes ago
• hoops: Apparently they are closing with "Sookie Sookie" as they opened with. 6 minutes ago
• hoops: Steppenwolf's "Sookie Sookie" on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3PRV5JsTJg 3 minutes ago
• hoops: Grant Green's version of "Sookie Sookie": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVqvd4a4YpA 2 minutes ago
• hoops: GM has the official set list in her hands and will post it to the BlueBook eventually. MANY THANKS TO GIRL MARGARET! about a minute ago

 

Date: Fri, August 20, 2010, 20:44:54 ET
Posted by: Casual Fan, Orlando

Big Fan:

I was joking. Obviously the odd characters in your post were some sort of artifact of a glitch in the transmittal. No offense intended (or even contemplated).

Glad you enjoyed the show and am jealous I probably won't get to catch one this go 'round.

CF

Date: Fri, August 20, 2010, 20:12:13 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, at home

Casual Fan - do you ever have anything positive or original to add to this forum? You really are a jerk - but I guess you know that. Please let me know what concerts you'll be at because I'd like to meet you, although I don't think you'd like the outcome.

They did not announce the title to any songs last night, so it's just memory of who was the lead vocalist. But I suppose you would know the titles to the esoteric songs they played. I'm guessing 90% of the crowd had no idea what the title to IGY was - maybe they knew it was an old Donald Fagen tune, but that would have been it, much less the other songs.

Date: Fri, August 20, 2010, 15:41:40 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Reeling In The Years?!?!
Of all of the tunes Don
could have done, never would
have guessed that one. Guess
he's still "reeling" from
the response that it got
last summer once they started
doing the original version
back with Elliot in London.

I assume it was the "original
flavor" of Reeling last night?

Wonder if Don has a set of solo
& SD tunes that he is going to
rotate from night to night?

Boz didn't appear to do many
solo tunes!? No Lido?
No Georgia?!

Date: Fri, August 20, 2010, 15:20:31 ET
Posted by: Casual Fan, Doh!

Oops, hoops, missed the reference to Lowdown. Must have been all the cyrillic.

Date: Fri, August 20, 2010, 13:50:55 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

CASUAL FAN: Yo! Check out Big Fan's post from a few hours before: Lowdown was indeed performed.

BIG FAN, Others: Thank you for the post.

I have to say, when I saw the first "B.S." in Big Fan's post first thing this morning, I was thinking "Bull shit"? Huh? Oh Boz Scaggs.

Best wishes and thanks to Big Fan, Casual Fan and everyone else.

Jim

Date: Fri, August 20, 2010, 13:42:46 ET
Posted by: Casual Fan, all growed up

An article for a Philly publication (at least of sorts) re the Dukes. Starts with comments we've seen from other places, but adds some other discussion at the end. I also like Lowdown. Wonder if BS did that one last night.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/news_details/article/177/2010/august/20/dukes-of-september-revue-its-three-for-the-show.html

Date: Fri, August 20, 2010, 12:52:09 ET
Posted by: thedanimal, Chicago

Only thing that would have made this better would have been having Walter along for the ride and doing Haitian Divorce!!!!!!!!!

Date: Fri, August 20, 2010, 12:40:50 ET
Posted by: Geezer, Dom

[ It's a sort of academic parallel to the Steely Dan song "Hey, Nineteen," a lament that the young don't get the cultural references of even a decade past. Come to think of it, the class of 2014 probably has no idea who Steely Dan is. ]

Maybe, but on the other hand... as I swiftly approach geezerdom I find I don't get the cultural references of RIGHT NOW! Does that balance the scales?

Date: Fri, August 20, 2010, 12:18:35 ET
Posted by: Strat1313, ma

Any one know what songs Boz Scaggs did last night? Big Fan must not know his music, he came up with ???

Date: Fri, August 20, 2010, 12:08:52 ET
Posted by: George, in Paris

Opening paragraph from a column in today's Wall Street Journal:

'Mindset Lists' and a Mythical Generation Gap
Jokes aside, Beloit's arbiters may be the out-of-it ones.
By ERIC FELTEN
Beloit College in Wisconsin put out its annual "Mindset List" this week, a collection of pop-cultural tidbits meant to give professors a quick peek into their new students' knowledge base. It's a sort of academic parallel to the Steely Dan song "Hey, Nineteen," a lament that the young don't get the cultural references of even a decade past. Come to think of it, the class of 2014 probably has no idea who Steely Dan is.

Date: Fri, August 20, 2010, 10:38:26 ET
Posted by: Matt, Chattanooga, TN

What song by The Band did Boz do?

Date: Fri, August 20, 2010, 07:24:14 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, Home At Last

Some general comments.
The venue was rustic but in a very nice way. Small. There actually was a moat between the seats and the band. The pavilion is suspended over water. Man I am I glad it didn’t rain. That would have just been beyond terrible.
C a r o l y n L e o n h a r t - E s c o f f e r y looks great – really thin. Don called her Carolyn Leonhart a couple of times.
I’ve never seen Don so animated at a concert – smiling to the crowd.
Jon Herington is the ultimate hired gun.
We got see Pete and Shari who were sitting almost opposite from us on the other side.

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
They started a little after 8 and played for almost exactly 2 hours. The setlist is the best I could do. I was afraid the cicada and the water features would drown out the bad – they only added background though.
1. Sookie Sookie Intro – band only. Jon Herington solo, Carolyn doing most of the vocals.
2. Boz Scaggs opened
3. Don introduces Michael “White Lightning� McDonald for the next song.
4. Shakedown Street – Grateful Dead – Don on lead vocals. Very animated.
5. You Never Can Tell – BS. Song played during the Pulp Fiction twist scene (one of my favorite movies BTW) I half expected John Travolta (he has a house about an hour west on I84) and Uma Thurman to jump up on stage.
6. Green Flower Street – DF
7. Miss Sun (maybe) BS with Carolyn
8. I Keep Forgetting (Every Time You Are Near) MM
9. Carolyn – solo – Song that was on a jukebox near Don’s HS.
10. Caledonia Mission The Band – DF
11. MM on Banjo BS lead - ????
12. The Shape I'm In MM
13. ???? BS
14. IGY DF
15. What A Fool Believes MM
16. Catherine Russell lead Muddy Water tune written by Dixon
17. Carolyn and MM duet
18. Lowdown from Silk Degrees – BS Crowd favorite so far Walt Weiskoph on flute.
19. BS ?????
20. Taking it To the Streets MM – Catherine Russell sang second verse.
21. Reeling in the Years – DF This really got the crowd going. (Rain Shower)
22. Love Train - The O'Jays
Encore:
23. Help Me Rhonda – Beach Boys
24. It keeps you running – I think MM
25. Sookie Sookie Outro

The level of the vocalists mics could have been higher. Just a small thing.
A great concert and a chance to see some music performed you don’t hear every day.
I saw Pete talking to saxophonist Gary Blu who wrote out the charts for Two Against Nature among others after the show.

Date: Thurs, August 19, 2010, 18:22:54 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

For anyone interested here is a
great interview with Brian Wilson
about his new Gershwin Project -

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/16/entertainment/la-et-brian-wilson-20100730

Big Fan -

What the f$ck! $222.67 for 3rd row?!
What kind of gouging is going on
in Danbury?!! Who is promoter?
The Danbury Mint! ;O)
My 10 row center seats at the Greek
here in LA were only $105 each! Sounds
a bit shady to me. 1976? Not bad.
But I think 1977 was EVEN better!

"A shared past will also result in each of the principals singing a song by The Band, a segment that's the result of Fagen's connection to former Band drummer Levon Helm"
- USA Today

I wonder if it will be "I Shall Be Released".
Donald's take of it on vocals on the Mountain
Jam boot this year with Levon was just tear
inducing & awe inspiring.

Looking forward to the reports and setlist
tonight! Have a great opening night all.
Wish I could be there.

Date: Thurs, August 19, 2010, 17:10:13 ET
Posted by: digital to analog,

Michael -
There is no such thing as a too-loud waveform (outside of unintended distortion). In digital, you attain the highest resolution waveform the closer you get to digital zero, but no clipping is allowed. If the source tracks are recorded properly with healthy levels, the mix is simply the spectral and level balancing of the individual tracks, no longer worrying about the loudness of individual tracks.

The problem is the squeezed dynamic range - trying to maximize the resolution, which also gives the impression of overall loudness since the most quiet sounds are boosted louder in proportion to the loudest sounds. On vinyl, loudness was limited by how many minutes you wanted per side, and by the threshold of what would make the needle leap out of the groove.

The goal in audio recording is always to try and maximize signal to noise ratio. So you record in the quietest studios with the highest quality balanced electronics and try to get the hottest signal recorded before undesirable analog distortion or unlistenable digital distortion.

Date: Thurs, August 19, 2010, 14:20:49 ET
Posted by: JoeM, CT

Regarding tonights Dukes venue...

It's a beautiful spot. It is on the WestConn campus (Western CT State University). My son Joseph is a student there - his dorm is within shouting distance of the venue so we're pretty familiar with the locale.

Great accoustics, stage sight lines, park-like surroundings, etc...

The likes of The Moody Blues, Willie Nelson and Gov't Mule are frequent guests.

Set list sounds interesting based on the USA Today article and other sources. Hendrix, Dead, Ray Charles covers? I'm in.

Should be a great show. See you all there!

Joe

Date: Thurs, August 19, 2010, 11:25:39 ET
Posted by: Michael,

You see, that's where you're wrong. I only bring up major labels because of their stature. Much of the music I listen to doesn't have anything to do with the major labels, but that's all besides the point.

With all due respect, the 'generalizations' I make are in regard to the major label releases for reasons already explained. What I'm not doing is taking the entire landscape of music releases and lumping them together for example's sake.

In your own words, "Many of the current pop tracks are maxxed out in the mixing process, pushing the sound file to its limit, and if you actually 'see' the file waveform in a session, you'll notice something horrible - no nuance - a sound file pushed to the limit of the envelope; peaked out, with no room for subtlety. The file looks 'flat' because, it is. All levels all the time to their highest mix potentiality, so there is no dynamics whatsoever.
I realize that not all records are made this way, but it can explain the harsh 'feel' to the digital medium."

We were originally debating digital vs analog. It's quite stupid to discuss the 'musicality' of every current release. Sure, anyone can dig around for good music on the independent scene or elsewhere. I'm currently looking forward to the new Jamiroquai album, 'Rock Dust Light Star', which is (obviously) a major label release. I hope that with the organic, live feel, including the usage of horns and strings (i.e. a return to form), that it doesn't suffer from the 'brick wall' effect.

Date: Thurs, August 19, 2010, 10:45:08 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc

Don't go all 1's and 0's on the argument, either.
No weight? Not what I meant.
Precisely, tho: it has weight.
For SOME of the musics...not all.

I am fortunate to be privy to some forthcoming music where your arugment doesn't apply at all. It's recorded old school, mixed old school and Mastered old school - and sounds fantastic and musical by real fantastic musicians.

If you're listening to major label releases only, you're missing out on a lot...that's all.

Why would you listen to - in far too many cases - bad music mixed like a brick wall?

Date: Thurs, August 19, 2010, 10:25:16 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Oh well. *shrugs* Unless I can dissect each and every release, my argument holds no weight. Ok, well, the only means would be for anyone with current releases by major labels to put the CDs in a PC, open the songs in a DAW and check to see how hot the mixes are.

Just for reference I put my Morph The Cat CD in and looked and it's quite a bit louder than my Nightfly CD. The low-end stuff such as the bass sits very prominently in the mix, really strong, and overall the mix has more punch. However, it doesn't create the 'brick wall' effect, even though a lot of the attack (which creates the peaks) comes pretty close to the zero crossing.

Nevertheless that's a Donald Fagen release and as such is an exception to the norm because, not to patronize anyone here, his releases are noteworthy for the quality of the production.

Date: Thurs, August 19, 2010, 10:02:55 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc

Michael: unless you are proficient with and have the time to listen to most of the new recordings - major and independent releases, their processes, mixes, etc. - it's foolish to make gross generalizations of the audio industry. I doubt that's the case.

I know that in my world the contrary to your argument is actually true.

Date: Thurs, August 19, 2010, 08:25:38 ET
Posted by: RJ Squirrel, USA Today Dukes Article

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2010-08-19-dukes19_ST_N.htm

Date: Thurs, August 19, 2010, 08:06:03 ET
Posted by: Michael,

digital to analog, right, it occurs during the mastering phase. However, we cannot rule out the possibility that the recording levels aren't set a bit high.

ygk, I'm talking about major labels because they were the ones responsible for the loudness wars and they're the ones who ultimately determine the industry standard of music distribution. It would be high unlikely that, should a shift occur, it would happen as a result of an independent label since the major labels influence the hardware makers that produce the audio equipment being used.

Date: Thurs, August 19, 2010, 08:04:16 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, at work for now

Article about tonight's show from the local Danbury, CT paper:

http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Donald-Fagen-Michael-McDonald-and-Boz-Scaggs-619306.php

It looks like the wife and I will be leading the charge to see the Dukes of September Rhythm Revue 2010 tonight in Danbury. Original forecast was for 30% chance of showers, then modified to only AM showers and now it’s going to be an absolutely gorgeous night for an outdoor concert. Although I’ve never been to this venue it’s all outside and it’s rain or shine. This venue is on one of our state universities campuses – we have no idea what to expect, but judging from the following rules it’s not a Danfest friendly venue.

We are a completely outdoor venue: All concerts are rain or shine. In the instance of rain, standard umbrellas (no golf umbrellas) are permitted.
Free parking on site, please carpool.
No pets, no glass, no alcohol or beverages of any kind. Soft drinks, water, energy drinks, beer, wine, food and snacks are available for purchase.
At this time, we only accept cash for all Food & Beverage purchases. There is no ATM on site.
Please leave the following items at home; animals/pets, fireworks, video equipment, tape recorders, cooking equipment, cameras, weapons, illegal drugs, bikes.
Guests are welcome to bring the following items: blankets, lawn chairs, binoculars, purses, coolers (food only) no beverages of any kind are allowed into the park.
“Tailgating” is strictly prohibited.
Picture ID is required for all alcoholic beverage purchases.

These were by far the highest face value regular seat tickets (without some sort of promotion attached to it) I have ever bought for a concert, $222.67 each. Although we have excellent seats in the third row. We chose Danbury because it’s less than an hour from our house and going to the Boston show means getting a room and staying overnight. We did that for SD last year so we thought this would be something new. I’m looking forward to the concert – I even bought a copy of Silk Degrees to get back to the Boz Skaggs roots. Lost in the disco albums and all of those tremendous albums released in 1976, I have a feeling these songs will go over well live with the SD band.

Let’s think about 1976 for awhile – and some of the albums released that year. Was there ever a better year for music?

Agents of Fortune - Blue Öyster Cult
Best of The Doobies - The Doobie Brothers
Blondie - Blondie
Blow Your Face Out - The J. Geils Band
Boston - Boston
Chicago X - Chicago
A Day at the Races - Queen
Dreamboat Annie - Heart
Fly Like an Eagle - Steve Miller Band
Frampton Comes Alive! - Peter Frampton
Hotel California - Eagles
Leftoverture - Kansas
One More from the Road - Lynyrd Skynyrd
Presence - Led Zeppelin
The Royal Scam – Steely Dan
Silk Degrees - Boz Scaggs
The Song Remains the Same - Led Zeppelin
Station to Station - David Bowie
Takin' It to the Streets - The Doobie Brothers
Their Greatest Hits (1971–1975) - Eagles
Wings at the Speed of Sound - Paul McCartney & Wings
Wings over America - Paul McCartney & Wings
Wired - Jeff Beck
Works Volume I - Emerson, Lake & Palmer
Year of the Cat - Al Stewart

I’d like to tell you I’ll post a set list but it sounds like they may be covering other artist’s songs that I may not be familiar with. I’m sure the local papers will give some sort of review.

Date: Thurs, August 19, 2010, 08:03:25 ET
Posted by: Alkali, NYC

Here's a good read that I swiped from a music board concerning digital vs analog recording on Steely Dan's 2003 album "Everything Must Go":

I believe it's about 90% analog, which to my knowledge is unheard of these days.

Some quotes from the article:

Yet Becker is at pains to point out that the medium alone can't deliver great sound. "It was not necessarily a question of how good analogue sounded. It's a question of how good analogue sounds if you happen to have Elliot Scheiner and a great bunch of musicians in the room. Analogue has all sorts of problems associated with it, along with the potential to sound very good. And not only is Elliot a real pro in dealing with these problems, he also gets the most out of the creative possibilities that analogue offers. Just walking into a studio with analogue tape machines isn't going to buy you anything."

Still, given the recent improvements in digital sound, and the scores of people claiming that digital has finally come of age with high sampling rates and 24-bit resolution, it's surprising the hear the praises of analogue sung like this. In Scheiner's judgement even vastly improved digital is still no match for analogue, which, notes Fagen, has itself been improved. "Elliot told me that there had been a lot of improvement in analogue tape since the digital age began. He was right."



"The quality of analogue tape has become better, but I don't think it makes that much of a difference," the engineer retorts. "We had quality tape back then as well. In the early days I used Scotch 3M 250, switched to 3M 26 at some point, and on the last record we used BASF 900. I grew up and learned analogue and I'm an analogue geek. It's not that I'm kicking digital, but analogue has a much better sound. When you are able to A/B analogue and digital, which we could do in this case, there's simply no comparison. The top end is so sweet and beautiful. I've never heard anyone say about digital, even at 24-bit/96kHz or 192kHz: 'Isn't the top end as sweet and beautiful as you've ever heard?' You don't because digital just doesn't sound that way."


Scheiner stresses that he isn't claiming that analogue gives a more truthful representation of reality. "Analogue changes something in the sound," he elaborates, "but I think it does something good. By contrast, digital is pristine and sterile. On the other hand, it has great things about it. There's nothing better than be able to fly stuff around or tune it in a digital workstation. That's really outstanding. And I don't think every project should be recorded on analogue. You have to look at it on a case-by-case basis. When you consider that the majority of today's music is rather lo-fi, then it's really not that important what you record it on. But there are some projects that command that importance."

Date: Thurs, August 19, 2010, 03:04:59 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Donald Rumsfeld Fagen,

Those discs are the SHM SACDs.

They were made not from the original masters but earlier copies.

If you do a search with SHM SACD and Aja in the title you will get all sorts of info about how these were made and people's impressions of how they sound. There are many other (non SD) titles being done this way.

Date: Thurs, August 19, 2010, 00:00:26 ET
Posted by: Dan, Pete, etc, Thanks!

USA Today Video and text interview with The Dukes of September: Fagen, McDonald and Scaggs:

http://usat.me/39760194

Date: Wed, August 18, 2010, 21:01:43 ET
Posted by: digital to analog,

Michael, the mastering stage is where the horrible audio compression is happening, not the mixing stage. There are countless wonderfully mixed recordings that unfortunately have their dynamic range squeezed out at the mastering stage.

It was inevitable once cheap and powerful digital tools got in the hands of amateurs and bean counters. But there are lots of talented and creative people doing stunning work with these tools too.

Check out an independent magazine called Tape Op for many interesting discussions on recording and the tools of the trade.

Date: Wed, August 18, 2010, 17:41:32 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Just a reminder not to be shy:

DEFINITION:
An Official Danfest (or Donfest or Dukesfest or...) is simply when two or more Danfans meet before or after a Steely Dan show.

Nothing more is required. In fact, for this short tour, just post here on the Blue and I will see that it gets to the right list for the others who don't read the Blue but have signed up for an email list indicating that they want to meet you before a particular show. I do request that you at least let me know your email address if you want to have one in case there are any questions. Email me at hoopsATDandomDOTcom

Wish I could be there this Friday!

Best,

Jim

Date: Wed, August 18, 2010, 17:24:51 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower

Official Atlantic City Dukesfest News:

hey kids, DanFest/DonFest/Boz-a-thon/MikeMcD-fest/DukesFest in the works, some of us are meeting up Friday at the B-Bar in the Borgata casino area at around 6PM...stop on by if you are so inclined, and have a zombie and meet some fellow Bluebookers...

Date: Wed, August 18, 2010, 17:11:53 ET
Posted by: duncan, UK

sweet!
Herman Leonard montage


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-11000692

Date: Wed, August 18, 2010, 12:12:41 ET
Posted by: web search, w

RIP jazz photographer Herman Leonard.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/08/18/BANP1EUNIH.DTL

Date: Wed, August 18, 2010, 11:36:54 ET
Posted by: Donald Rumsfeld-Fagen, SACDs?

Phil - Thanks for the link to the Japanese SACD releases of Aja and Gaucho. Does anyone know if these releases were authorized/worked on by Donald and Walter (or their engineering collaborators)? The notes mention a 2010 remastering; this is the first I've heard of that. And were the SACDs made from the master tapes? I had thought some of the masters for Aja were lost.

Anyone know what the story behind these discs is?

Date: Wed, August 18, 2010, 10:39:26 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc

and yet these, included in those links, do NOT.

did it every occur to you that the proliferation of good music is NOT being done by major labels?

Date: Wed, August 18, 2010, 10:33:47 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons Island

Richie Hayward was one of the all time king's of groove drumwise! Hard to think of another drummer that had THAT MUCH feel to his drumming. Incredibly nice guy as well. I was lucky enough to meet the band and hang for about 30 minutes before one of their shows about 7 years ago. Got to stand on the side of the stage for their show and I watched Richie like a hawk. Groove infectious!

I've been listening to a lot of Little Feat for the past 4 or 5 days since I learned the news. Very sad.

Date: Wed, August 18, 2010, 10:09:08 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Actually, I'll maintain my argument. You post links to independent labels/artists -- and that takes away from my argument how? Most bands do, in fact, have their mixes too hot. The major labels perpetrate it and it becomes a trend, just like mp3s.

Date: Wed, August 18, 2010, 09:34:25 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc

Michael,
don't allow your youth and its enthusiasm/disdain stuff your mouth with your feet.

There are plenty of dynamic recordings out there that don't have the LOUDness issue, and are quite engaging/musical/enjoyable at the same time.

to wit:
http://www.truthandsoulrecords.com/storefront/
www.phenomenalhandclapband.com/
http://www.daptonerecords.com/

for starters, but methinks you can do better research on your own rather than gross generalizations...

---ygk

Date: Wed, August 18, 2010, 09:02:25 ET
Posted by: Phil, Pau France

A quick message for the extra Khz freaks, AJA and Gaucho rereleased on SACD in Japan soon:
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/rcms/music/sashmcd.html?current=30&step=30
Bonne journée
Philippe

Date: Wed, August 18, 2010, 08:51:12 ET
Posted by: duncan,

you audio guys might find this link interesting...

www.3d60.co.uk

or not!

Date: Wed, August 18, 2010, 06:26:05 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Well, truth be told, there are hardly any quality mixes being produced these days. It all sounds the same, like one really LOUD noise. I guess there is no difference between young and old ears in this respect since quality mixes have become all but disregarded.

As for the audio fidelity, I'll concede to that. It's not that people wouldn't accept high-quality music. It's just that the music industry of the past decade has adopted cheap distribution, i.e. mp3s, because it is much easier to market to the mass public. 'Convenience first, quality second', and the industry makes a quick buck.

I guess I'm living in Dream Land or something to entertain the notion that they might actually bring quality audio fidelity into the 21st century. After all, it's asking too much to adopt a new, superior format while maintaining backward compatibility with CDs. What's the point in paying premium for a watered down mp3? Surely you can agree with that.

Date: Tues, August 17, 2010, 23:40:09 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

Wow, Richie Hayward dead.

RIP

IMO Steely Dan and Little Feat are the best rock/hybrid bands to ever come out of the USA. Certainly the best of their era in the 70's and still making great music today.

Two degrees in be-bop, a PHD in swing
He's the master of rhythm he's a rock and roll king

http://www.littlefeat.net/

http://www.featphotos.com/RichieTrubute

Date: Tues, August 17, 2010, 23:08:02 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

For the "older folks", sad news for
anyone who also dug this music as
much as I did. And I promise there
is not one word about digital:

Richie Hayward dies at 64; Little Feat drummer, founding member

Richie Hayward, the drummer and a founding member of Little Feat, a celebrated rock band that arrived on the music scene in Los Angeles with its distinctively eclectic sound in the early 1970s, has died. He was 64.

Hayward, who had liver cancer, died Thursday of complications from pneumonia in a hospital near Vancouver, Canada, said Bridget Nolan, a publicist for the band.

"He was a great drummer, and he was very much integral to Little Feat's sound," singer-songwriter Jackson Browne, who first met Hayward about 40 years ago, told The Times on Friday. "It's hard to imagine another drummer making that music because it's very inventive."

Formed in 1969 — its original members including singer-songwriter and guitarist Lowell George, keyboardist Bill Payne, bassist Roy Estrada and Hayward — Little Feat became known for its mix of rock, country, blues, folk, jazz and funk.

The band's self-titled 1971 debut album featured songs such as "Strawberry Flats," "Willin'," and "Hamburger Midnight."

"Through its first five albums, Little Feat has been thought of as a cult band, as influential musicians' musicians and as one of Warner Bros. Records' 'prestige acts,' " Richard Cromelin, former Times pop music writer, wrote in 1977.

"Critical praise has been lavish, particularly in England where the L.A.-based band is regularly hailed as the premier American group of the decade and major rock stars like Elton John proclaim its brilliance."

And yet, Cromelin wrote, "the cash registers have been excruciatingly silent."

The band, whose "Dixie Chicken" was one of their best-known songs, broke up after George died of a heart attack at age 34 while on a solo tour in 1979. But the band reformed in 1988.

"I never thought we'd get back together," Hayward told the Intelligence Journal, a Lancaster, Pa., newspaper in 2004. "Everyone had gone their separate ways. It seemed like everybody was going to continue doing that. We were all doing OK, but we weren't doing our own thing like we are now, which is much better. It's what we all kind of secretly wanted."

Hayward's "deep, funky groove and vibrant rock 'n' roll energy" — as an online obituary in Modern Drummer put it — led to his playing drums on numerous recording sessions and live performances with artists such as Eric Clapton, Bob Dylan, Robert Palmer, Robert Plant and Bob Seger.

Born Feb. 6, 1946, in Clear Lake, Iowa, Hayward began playing drums as a child and moved to California at 19 in 1964. Two years later, he read an ad in the L.A. Free Press that said, "Drummer Wanted — Must Be Freaky" and joined Lowell George's band called the Factory.

Hayward also played briefly with the Fraternity of Man before joining Little Feat.

"My style has grown with the band," he said in a 1995 interview with Modern Drummer. "It started out heavily influenced by blues, rock 'n' roll, and jazz. Then it got more specific as I got into other kinds of American folk music and other roots music.

"I discovered New Orleans along the way, and that made a big difference — it loosened me up."

A year ago, Hayward announced that he had been diagnosed with liver disease. His last public performance was on July 11, when he sat in with Little Feat at the Vancouver Island Music Fest.

"He's really been a beacon to a whole generation of younger drummers," said Browne, who performed with other musicians at one of the benefit concerts held to help pay for Hayward's medical bills. "He was really loved; he will be missed."

Hayward's survivors include his wife, Shauna, and a son, Severin.

Date: Tues, August 17, 2010, 13:44:01 ET
Posted by: digital to analog,

Ah Michael, playing the "young guy" card... Who can argue against that?

Sincerely, enjoy being young.

I failed to make my point, but that point was not that analog is better than digital. They're both useful, and will continue to be useful when the new optical/bio/nano tech sets the next level of quality.

Specs on paper about the fidelity and dimensionality of 24/96 systems are fine, but it's mostly marketing hype since hardly anyone has a complete audio system, quality electronics, or listening environment to hear the differences.

re: old ears - you have to adapt to what you have at a given time. I can't compare my old ears to my young ears and I can't hear how anybody else hears. Same as it ever was. Are you implying you can differentiate between mixes done by old guys and mixes done by young guys? If so, you do have a fine set of ears my friend.

Date: Tues, August 17, 2010, 12:09:59 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Egads! Not being able to listen to Steely Dan!?! Now THAT is a scary thought.

Date: Tues, August 17, 2010, 09:52:34 ET
Posted by: Ann (Wild Dann of Borneo), Borneo (and it's sizzling!)

It's OK Michael, I was just having a bit of fun :-)

I have to agree with you and also about the effects of "loud noise". Even now, I can see my old mum's finger wagging at me when, as a teenager I would come home almost deaf after attending a rock concert (especially Black Sabbath - which I walked out of after the 3rd number!) or hold the transistor radio to my ear or sleep with it under my pillow: "You'll be deaf by the time you're 40" she would say. I must admit that although I'm a fair bit older than that now, I'm not exactly deaf but my hearing is no where near what it was.

So take care all you young Dan fans out there - don't spend too long with the headphones on or playing the music at top volume. The worst nightmare would be to lose our hearing - no more listening to the delights of the Dan - it couldn't get any worse than that! :-(

Date: Tues, August 17, 2010, 08:50:10 ET
Posted by: Sargeant Carter,

In the absence of disease, hearing loss is COMPLETELY caused by exposure to loud sounds. It's a common mistake, the assumtion that hearing loss is caused by old age. Older folk simply have had more exposures to loud sounds...typically w/o ear protection. Ever wonder why males are more commonly hearing impaired than females?...the answer is exposure to noise (i.e. power tools, lawn-care tools, military equipment, etc). Even my dentist has hearing loss in the ear that is closest to his drill. Younger folk are "making up" lost ground now, though, with the use of ear buds played at damaging levels.

Date: Tues, August 17, 2010, 08:36:49 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Sorry, I don't mean to insult anyone. It just doesn't make sense to me that people with hearing issues mix and master albums since they cannot hear as much of the high-end detail as they used to.

Date: Tues, August 17, 2010, 08:12:17 ET
Posted by: Ann (Wild Dann of Borneo), Borneo (and it's sizzling!)

Oh dear...pass me my white stick, hearing aid and rocking chair... :-(

Date: Tues, August 17, 2010, 06:41:19 ET
Posted by: Michael,

But that's mostly just an assertion of the behavior of society in general, i.e. how the appreciation for the art of music has waned, and not very substantial in regards to the quality of the digital/analog playback. You said that analog sounds warmer and has more presence, but you also said that you've been listening for a long time, which seems to indicate you're much older now and your ears likely don't work as well as, say, mine do -- I'm a young guy.

(Which brings up another thing that's sort of off-subject: since aging causes loss of hearing in most folks, should older gentlemen be in the studio mixing and mastering albums for optimum performance? How can they tell a mix is perfect if their ears cannot hear beyond a certain threshold?)

I digress. You said that analog can be maintained, then assessed that when digital "breaks" is gone. What exactly do you mean? Digital is infinitely more versatile than analog. As I said, it can be copied and stored in a multitude of ways and never loses any of its audio quality no matter how many times it's played, whereas the reverse is not true. Analog wears down with age; digital does not.

Digital can be just as warm and cleaner than analog if the native recording is 24-bit/96kHz which, sadly, the music industry has not made a transition to. Until high-resolution digital audio becomes the norm, the analog crowd will always be able to make the case for their medium of choice. A high-quality CD will not sound as good as a high-quality, well maintained vinyl.

Date: Mon, August 16, 2010, 22:55:39 ET
Posted by: digital to analog,

I think digital is completely fantastic - I'm not taking sides, just trying to point out that digital as it exists currently is far far more complex than analog, and with many problems to be solved for it to last into the long range future.

Yes, records are scratchy, can warp, get moldy, etc. But if reasonably well cared for, they will "play" forever on simple mechanical equipment. You could build a hand crank turntable a la the Edison RCA and have a pleasant if not audiophile music experience. Music with scratches to me is better than no music. Digital, when it fails, is gone.

There are some interesting tech developments that will probably make this whole analog/digital debate obsolete in our lifetime, but in the meantime I'm glad to have both.

My first copy of Royal Scam in 1980 was on cassette recorded from a record that skipped. For years I had learned Scam songs with missing beats and no low end and hissing highs. Finally hearing a pristine LP years later was a powerful experience that I still remember more than hearing the Dan catalog on CD for the first time. What the LPs lacked in transparency and crackles was more than made up for by dimensionality, fullness and warmth, even on my mid-level equipment.

It's sort of funny that for all the high quality potential of digital, it has sort of rendered music disposable. We listen to music in compressed formats on cheap headphones because portability and transferability has become such an important part of music.

Date: Mon, August 16, 2010, 22:26:05 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

I'm a bit confused by this assertion:

"A vinyl record truly lasts forever, but a hard disk, dvd, or cd will not play forever."

I've seen vinyl records warp beyond recognition, well past the point of being able to be played. They scratch, break in half fairly easily, etc. Surely CDs and DVDs are a robust medium than vinyl records...no?

As for their being played, they both rely on a player (and speakers) to transform their information to music. I'll buy the argument that digital decoders are slightly more complicated than analog players, but when in the scope of all technology, how much more complicated really?

Date: Mon, August 16, 2010, 21:57:20 ET
Posted by: digital to analog,

Digital has to be converted to analog in order for us to hear it. The quality depends on the digital to analog converter. There are now digital speakers, but the air is an analog medium.

Acoustic sounds (voice, piano, horns, etc.) have to be digitized to be used in a digital system, thus relying on the quality of the analog to digital converters. Until recently, all microphones were analog. Most prized mixing desks are analog, so even digitally recorded sounds are converted back to analog for the mixing process.

Loudness wars started because softer sounds in a digital system have less resolution than loud sounds. You lose one bit of resolution for every 6db of decreased volume. Before the most recent advances of 24/96, analog records had a much higher dynamic range than digital. In classical music, the softest musical passages on digital recordings had far less resolution than the peak passages. Even so, most people do not listen to music at the highest possible resolution.

The biggest hurdle to an all digital future is storage. While the first analog recordings can still be played, digital recordings require specialized storage and conversion to play. A vinyl record truly lasts forever, but a hard disk, dvd, or cd will not play forever. The gold plated copper record aboard the Voyager spacecraft was analog so that it could be played on simple equipment in the event that extra-terrestrial creatures with ears found it.

Date: Mon, August 16, 2010, 21:33:02 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near th eTower

I thought Haitian Divorce was written about Eliot Scheiner's divorce....

Date: Mon, August 16, 2010, 20:59:34 ET
Posted by: Alkali, NYC

Haitian Divorce has Becker written all over it.

Date: Mon, August 16, 2010, 18:50:51 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Thanks for the info on TGL Ann.
I never bothered to read the
liner notes on the DVD version
on The Nightfly. And I thought
for sure it was about the fall
of Cuba. I mean really, a song
about "Haiti" and not one "voodoo"
reference!

BUT as Donald writes in the Box
Set liner notes, TGL is NOT
"based" on GG's novel:

"These days paranoia is often more justified and mightily oppressive.
But to a feckless weekend hippie in the '60s, it seemed kind of exciting. I wrote this song after a trip to Haiti in the late '70s.
A bit of atmosphere from Graham Greene's Haiti novel, 'The Comedians',
got in there too."

With all of the places he could go,
I would never peg Donald Fagen for
wanting to go to Haiti, especially
"Baby Doc's" Haiti of the late '70's.
I wonder if that trip also spawned
the idea for "Haitian Divorce"?

Date: Mon, August 16, 2010, 16:44:46 ET
Posted by: Eddie Offord,

The CDs that have DIDX in the catalog numbers.

Date: Mon, August 16, 2010, 16:35:10 ET
Posted by: The X Factor, Minneapolis

After reading that wiki on the Loudness War, it brings up a pertinent question: Which "remaster" versions of the Steely Dan CD library are the most "true to the music"?

Date: Mon, August 16, 2010, 15:07:08 ET
Posted by: Fido, R

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

Date: Mon, August 16, 2010, 14:52:28 ET
Posted by: Michael,

ygk, what you're referring to is the loudness of the waveform, which is not inherently an issue with digital audio but rather the loudness war which has been widely discussed over the years. These days, when an album is being mixed and mastered, the bands/labels push for the loudness to be maximized (because, apparently, they feel that evenly mixed songs are "wimpy"; I feel that they're just covering up for a lack of quality in performance).

Analog tends to have a warmer presence because mixes aren't mastered on vinyl to be as loud as possible. A digital recording can actually sound just as warm (and cleaner to boot) if done properly. But nobody seems to care about making a "warm" mix anymore -- they just want everything to be loud for some reason. Aside from the lack of seperation and nuance between instruments and hi/low-end dynamics being distorted as a result, the loudness creates ear fatigue, especially with headphones on, causing people to actually get tired of listening to the music after a short while and shut it off.

Thank the crappy musicians, engineers and label suits who created this 'brick wall of noise' and constantly force it on everything to compensate for the lack of quality in songwriting and skilled performers in this day and age.

Date: Mon, August 16, 2010, 14:39:53 ET
Posted by: Ann (Wild Dann of Borneo), Borneo (and it's sizzling!)

All this talk about vinyl v CDs is quite painful. I left ALL my SD vinyl albums at a friend's house back in the UK years ago, as I didn't want to risk shipping them here. I went back last month for a holiday and decided to collect a few to bring back and see if I could get hold of a vinyl record player. To my horror I discovered that she'd got them mixed up with some other stuff she had been storing for someone, who didn't want it and had told her to get rid it - so my whole SD collection ended up in the Charity shop. Someone out there must be having a whale of a time......agh!!!!!!

Some recent references to "The Goodbye look" and its meaning (L.Crane, Lurker Ray and Denise). A few years ago I posted that the whole concept reminded me of Graham Greene's book "The Comedians" about Haiti under the Papa Doc regime in the 1960s. Some smart alec (can't remember who now) shot me down (quite rudely I might add) and insisted it was about Cuba (which is quite a feasible concept actually). When Donald's box set came out, with the extra discs, guess what he himself confirmed :-). Here's the wiki link if you want the background:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Comedians_%28novel%29

Donald, I love your choice of literature!! The movie was good too!

Peace!

Ann

PS: Woodstock was 41 years ago today.

Date: Mon, August 16, 2010, 10:06:14 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc

I don't know how there can be any discussion of digital vs. analog and not speak to analog's natural "warmth".
While understandably, hiss and pop are annoyances on vinyl and that physical medium, there's a lot to be appreciated in my opinion with the cozy, snuggly quality that is analog.

Aja on vinyl is just a pristine thing to behold.

Many of the current pop tracks are maxxed out in the mixing process, pushing the sound file to its limit, and if you actually 'see' the file waveform in a session, you'll notice something horrible - no nuance - a sound file pushed to the limit of the envelope; peaked out, with no room for subtlety. The file looks 'flat' because, it is. All levels all the time to their highest mix potentiality, so there is no dynamics whatsoever.
I realize that not all records are made this way, but it can explain the harsh 'feel' to the digital medium.

I also realize that the Digital format is making strides to obtain that analog warmth - lots and lots of processing binary.

While I think Digital has clearly taken over, I don't expect audiophiles to allow for the total disappearance of analog. I hope not, anyway.

---ygk

Date: Mon, August 16, 2010, 07:06:11 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Thanks for that info, Doc. Much of that stuff I didn't know about.

I just want to make the case for digital over analog.

Whoever was talking about the hiss and crackle/pop on vinyls is correct. Trying to focus on great music can be a daunting task when the sound is cluttered with unwanted noise. Because of the accuracy with which digital recorders can record and process audio these days, there really is no point in going the analog route anymore. It's just too much ado about nothing and, really, exists only to appease the retro crowd (or DJs/remixers, but that's another story).

Hiss, pop, crackle, noise = Undesirable. Why stagnate in an overly expensive format when there are no real benefits? With digital audio, not only do you get a virtually perfect recording at 24-bit/96kHz but also the ability to clean the audio of any unwanted artifacts. Digital is infinitely more versatile, as well. You can edit, copy, paste, delete, etc. It doesn't cost and arm and a leg to "maintain" a digital file -- it's just stored data.

The only advantage vinyl has over digital is when comparing to CDs and lower-resolution audio files such as mp3s. Results may vary on a case-by-case basis but... a well mixed, recorded and maintained vinyl being played on high-end equipment will likely have an edge over CDs & mp3s, but that's if you can afford it. I don't see why they haven't shifted more music over to higher storage mediums such as DVDs. I'm not talking about simply watching a DVD concert (almost always 16-bit, 48,000kHz which is close to top-quality vinyls but not QUITE as good) but rather storing the audio in a higher quality format and allowing for playback. In other words, build the capability into all future disc-based audio systems for playback of DVD audio. Imagine just being able to pop a DVD music disc into your music system and hearing 24-bit/96kHz playback. Until that happens, the audio enthusiasts with analog equipment aren't going to make the transition because, in their eyes, what's the benefit?

Nevertheless, digital will overtake analog eventually. It's just a question of when the music industry decides to advance beyond technology from the 80's.

Date: Mon, August 16, 2010, 01:44:03 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

snap: The Aja CD from the mid 80s is a piece of crap. This version was not authorized by W&D and was not from the original master. It's sterile and totally 2-D with no resonance.

Date: Sun, August 15, 2010, 22:02:36 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

"The sound quality of a recording on a vinyl album deteriorates 50% after the first play."

I assume that was simply hyperbole. If not, can you point us to any data/studies on how the sound on vinyl deteriorates?

Even though I never had top quality audiophile equipment as a younger man, I did for a while have a pretty good TT (Bang and Olufsen) and cartridge. I think I did a good job of taking care of the albums before and after playing them. Kept them stored as well as was practical for someone who was playing music all the time. Yet, still the clicks and pops would come in fairly short order. Of course, I wasn't the only person playing the records and there was the occasional party, so I always attributed the problems to others. (Divert the blame! That's my motto.)

The difference between CDs and just about any record in my collection was remarkable to me, at first. I much preferred the clean click-free sound of the new medium. But over the years I have experienced some really breathtaking sound from vinyl played on some audiophile level stereos.

Now that I am older and possibly wiser, I have considered investing in some better sound. (Can't really afford it right now, but could have a few years ago and hope to be able to in the future. I still keep a TT, mostly for digitizing the content off older albums, but it's nothing special.) I just wonder if keeping vinyl records pristine is a pipe dream or something regular people can realize. I'm never going to have a dust-free room, or a listening environment that is designed specifically for listening to music. I also won't be able to keep my record collection in a climate-controlled vault.

Don't get me wrong. I still find the sound of well recorded CDs to be pretty good. Also I do a LOT of listening in my car (which has fairly good sound). I prefer CDs to digital files for the most part. But FLAC or other good lossless formats are fine, as long as the music isn't overly compressed. So I will probably never abandon these other formats completely. There is something to be said for convenience and portability. You simply can't bring the vinyl with you.

Anyway, the point of this ramble is to get some guidance from those of you who have, or have tried, the move to vinyl. (Keep in mind I listen to a lot of jazz.) Is it a major hassle? Do your albums still pop? Is jazz/classical/SD significantly better on vinyl? I don't really care so much about the raw sound I might miss on rock albums, so there is that.

Anyway. Thanks for any real, and clever wise-ass, input.

Date: Sun, August 15, 2010, 21:59:51 ET
Posted by: Dave, NJ

Stopped by the Parx Casino outside Philly today. Another nail in the coffin of Atlantic City. They had a live band playing to the chagrin of employees who couldn't hear people talk over the music. Heard them do Chicago, Santana and Paul Simon among others. Pretty good horn section and a respectable cover of Peg. I raised some gambling funds for the Dukes show at Borgata on Friday. I hope it's not sold out. Didn't get around to getting a ticket yet.

Date: Sun, August 15, 2010, 20:31:53 ET
Posted by: they're back!!!!!, beau bolero

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001117594029

love to see a battle of the steely dan CT cover bands with showbiz kids.

what a night - what a night!

yours,

not Q

Date: Sun, August 15, 2010, 18:16:46 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. It's Happy Hour!

I love the sound of a brand new quality vinyl record. But I find they skip far too often while I'm driving.

Date: Sun, August 15, 2010, 17:23:20 ET
Posted by: tony, new jersey by the beach

hi, alkali. i live in south jersey. we don't say joisey here. the people who come here in the summer say joisey. i respect your opinion. i just don't consider the newer S.D. music elevator music. i will be at the borgata next friday. i hope i can meet you. peace

Date: Sun, August 15, 2010, 17:20:04 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

Michael, Jazzassin:

Because of limitations of vinyl, the cartridge, and needle most vinyl records have a flat frequency response from 30Hz-15kHz. While the best analog system can detect frequencies up to 120 kHz, the FLAT portion of the frequency curve is still about 20Hz-20kHz. Rumble limits frequencies lower than that. In contrast, a reel to reel system has a flat frequency response from 10Hz-30kHz.

High bit depths and better noise reduction systems on digital media allow us to hear the noise that corresponds to real (non-digital) instruments.

BTW, DVD-A and hybrid DVDs allow 2 channel as well as 5.1 formats. I prefer the 2-channel (96 kHz/192 kHz, 24 bit, 120 dB dynamic range), because most sessions were recorded for stereo initially.

Date: Sun, August 15, 2010, 15:38:18 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Well I don't have a choice. I don't have an account at a file-sharing service and therefore e-mailing the tracks is my only option.

Date: Sun, August 15, 2010, 14:57:35 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Mailibu

Michael,

I thought you claimed responsibility
for the Gaucho Mess Mixes which are
utter shite. I must have misread
your post. Please except my sincere
apology.

Now if I had taken the time and effort
to clean up tracks there is no way I
would want to degrade my work and compress
it down to a shitty MP3 format. There
are numerous ways to post your work
in full WAV or FLAC form for people to
enjoy and you would never have to "email"
a single file.

Date: Sun, August 15, 2010, 11:07:31 ET
Posted by: There goes the, taboo

Hoops - was just speed reading and assumed you had rather unjustly put me in the 'negative ' category. My paranoid fault !

Date: Sun, August 15, 2010, 07:33:14 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Lurker Ray, "Michael -

1. - Your "remixes" are shite."

I've never remixed a song in my life, so I really have no idea what you're referring to.

"2. - You were never a member of Steely Dan (see 3.)

3. - I get douche chills just thinking about the audacity of someone
actually recording and adding instrumentation over Don & Walter's demos."

Sorry to inform you but that wasn't my work. I already posted how disgusted I felt about those half-assed remixes.

"4. - You're over dubbing is not only horrible, it's very hacky and totally unnessasary."

Once again, wasn't me.

"5. - With a little work ANYONE here can find these demos in their amazing - best - possible original quality. (see 6.)"

Nowhere NEAR the quality I have them in because I cleaned them myself. These are NOT the same versions that other people have been uploading.

"6. - X Factor PLEASE see number 5."

Yes, please do, read all the idiotic comments by this moron and then go listen to MY versions of the song. I didn't add a single instrument, sound, nada. I cleaned the shit out of those tracks so they acually sound good.

"7. - Any true "Audiophile" hates MP3's."

Please, spare me your smart ass insinuations and judgement. I am an audiophile and I don't mind either way.

Date: Sun, August 15, 2010, 00:58:12 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR

Ever notice how Dave Berg liked to draw characters that looked like Mitch Miller? 5 or 6 gigs? That bytes. According to W S Burroughs, back in the day, they used methad one to clean up tracks; cool edit pro is a fairly accessible and easy to use tool that can even make "Jones" (at a bitrate of 72) auditoryily palatable (palatively auditicious?). So if somebody hauls Marc Turner's Fisher Price turntable out into the woods and puts on Side A of "Countdown to Ecstasy" and there's nobody there (the hauler hauled ass back 2 miles to plug in his 4/0-2 Cu Type USE extension cord) to hear it, the air isn't irritated in some sort of katydid effect? And doesn't audience riveting require application of some kind of pretty groovy hot number? Or was it a game of chess? The bass line in "Snowbound" reflects the nagging guilt of being so clumsy-- or ham-handed, if you will, that you spill seed.

Date: Sat, August 14, 2010, 20:38:26 ET
Posted by: hutch,

I am - Good question. I'm thinking that What I Do is a good prospect. With Mike on board I see no reason not to do Pretzel Logic even though it was done at the NYR&SR shows. I'd love to hear The Nightfly because it's one of my favorite Fagen tunes but it's a long shot. Donald has said he likes playing Josie live... wouldn't bother me.
I guess we'll find out Thursday night when the reports come in.

But...

hmmmmm... SPOILERS!

Date: Sat, August 14, 2010, 17:39:03 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Michael -

1. - Your "remixes" are shite.

2. - You were never a member of Steely Dan (see 3.)

3. - I get douche chills just thinking about the audacity of someone
actually recording and adding instrumentation over Don & Walter's demos.

4. - You're over dubbing is not only horrible, it's very hacky and totally unnessasary.

5. - With a little work ANYONE here can find these demos in their amazing - best - possible original quality. (see 6.)

6. - X Factor PLEASE see number 5.

7. - Any true "Audiophile" hates MP3's.

Date: Sat, August 14, 2010, 14:53:39 ET
Posted by: O. Jesus, Michael

Michael -

Stop quoting Mel Brooks' lines, dingbat.

Date: Sat, August 14, 2010, 12:45:37 ET
Posted by: upyivo,

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Date: Sat, August 14, 2010, 11:40:32 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Always like to keep my audience riveted!

Date: Sat, August 14, 2010, 11:30:46 ET
Posted by: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Date: Sat, August 14, 2010, 11:12:33 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

Michael, you confuse me. Just as I thought I had totally misunderstood your intentions concerning the "sample rate of vinyl", you bring it up again. A lot of what you say is correct, but it still seems to be some mixing of terms around.
The Nyquist theory basically deals with the possibility of unhearable frequencies influencing on our perception of the ones we do hear. Therfore the upper limitation in frequency range in the human ear is mentioned, and the value is about 20 kHz. The value of 50 kHz is mentioned as the upper limitation in the freqency range of a vinyl record.
To get a similar final output with a freqency range close to that from a digital source you will, as you said, need a bitrate of 96kHz, which gives an output frequency range peaking at 48 kHz. So the 24b/96kHz standard is suitable for that purpose, yes.
But then you say (about vinyl sample rate):
"I have no idea how they measure it, but they can and, as has been proven, it peaks at around 50kHz".
No. It don't. It's the frequency range that peaks at around 50kHz. You're still mixing the sound frequency and the sample rate.

When it comes to personal preferences, I just state that they're personal. I have no rational argument for vinyl over digital. Habitual and emotional stuff, I guess.

High horses are something i find to be very uncomfy - I don't ride horses. No, I'm certainly not speaking for others, neither are you, so when I said "us" I referred to the fact that a lot of people most likely actually read us, despite the boredom it may bring upon them...

Date: Sat, August 14, 2010, 09:57:27 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Well that's nice to hear. I never claimed to be the know-it-all guru in regards to analog vs digital in the first place. But I'm all for high-quality audio reproduction, no matter what format. It's much easier to manage digital than analog, not least because of money.

Date: Sat, August 14, 2010, 09:52:56 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Jazzassin: "What the article says has NOTHING to do with bitrate, Michael. It says that the human ear has it's limitations, and that this limit, in the high frequency range, is about 20 kHz. (Your ear can't hear analog soundwaves whith a frequency over 20 kHz (+/-)) And that a vinyl record can sometimes contain sounds that goes up to 50 kHz, over twice as high frequency as you're able to hear. This describes one end of the frequency range of a vinyl record, and has absolutely nothing to do with bitrate."

Go back to what was said,

"Lets talk about sample rate and the Nyquist Theory. This theory is that the actual upper threshold of a piece of digital audio will top out at half the sample rate. So if you are recording at 44.1, the highest frequencies generated will be around 22kHz," meaning that analog DOESN'T max out in human ears at 50kHz but rather half that amount.

You had originally posed a question, "Michael,
how do you define the sampling rate of a vinyl record? You say they're a little past 50 kHz?"

I answered it the best I could. You didn't want to read the article (which I used to validate my point), so what can I do?

"Would you still say they have a 'sample rate'? How come?"

Source: http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/3016

"Sampling rate is not directly related to the bandwidth specifications of a high-speed digitizer. Sampling rate is the speed at which the digitizer’s ADC converts the input signal, after the signal has passed through the analog input path, to digital values. Hence, the digitizer samples the signal after any attenuation, gain, and/or filtering has been applied by the analog input path, and converts the resulting waveform to digital representation. The sampling rate of a high-speed digitizer is based on the sample clock that controls when the ADC converts the instantaneous analog voltage to digital values."

No matter what, the signal is always digtized in some way and therefore a loss of quality is bound to occur. However, with the higher sample rates our ears would never discern a difference. If you were put in a room and somebody played Aja for you on a vinyl and on a digital recording at 24bit/96kHz mixed from the same source, but only one of those songs was played on the vinyl, would you be able to discern the difference? Not a chance. Hence why sample rates and bit depth are so important nowadays as vinyls will degrade in quality with time but a digital signal, once saved, will always maintain its original fidelity. That's just a fact. You prefer vinyls? Ok. I prefer (high-quality) digital because I can store that information in a multitude of ways without loss of quality. Yes, bit rate is very important.

"In audio files, higher bit depth means better sound quality. In short, higher bit depths provide a converter with a more accurate 'ruler' (higher bit resolution) to measure amplitude with, thereby producing more accurate measurements. In audio quality terms, more accurate measurements mean less distortion of the true shape of the soundwave."

Source: http://www.planetoftunes.com/digiaudio/how_a_to_d.html

Jazzassin, "Are you referring to the quality and limitations of the magnet tape used for recording? Mics? Mixing console? The accuracy of the cutting machines? The quality of the vinyl material? I'm talking about a true analog world here. 'Sample rate' I don't find any room for in that terminology."

You'd be wrong. No matter what is being used to reproduce audio, it is always converted digitally at some stage in the production. And, as was said before, vinyls degrade in quality over time, as does the analog tape which is used to record many of the master recordings (read up on what Roger Nichols has said about this subject), making your reliance on vinyls for "quality audio reproduction" seem all the more baseless.

Jazzassin, "Sample rate is a keyword to describing the resolution of digital representations of sound. Sound, which in itself is analog and has no sampling rate. (It's not sampled at all.)
I'd love to be explained how you calculate the sample rate of an analog vinyl record?"

I have no idea how they measure it, but they can and, as has been proven, it peaks at around 50kHz. "Sound, which in itself is analog and has no sampling rate. (It's not sampled at all.)"... Are you trying to draw a parallel between analog and "sound," as if they are one and the same (they're not)? Analog equipment doesn't have an "infinite bit rate;" it is limited, even moreso than digital technology today is capable of. 24bit/96kHz (or higher) combined with the right recording equipment/environment is way better than analog is or will ever be capable of producing.

Jazzassin, "Personally, I'd much rather hear your opinion on Walter Becker's bass playing on Snowbound, the engineer's job with the track and your experience with listening to it on a really good surround audio system, than discussing the generally well known differences between the concepts of 'analog' and 'digital'. Differences which I still suspect you haven quite catched. Sorry to say so, but that's the only conclusion I get to when I read your post."

I understand enough about the differences that I can make an informed decision in regards to listening to as well as recording audio without going through the (often tremendous) hassles which are inherent when dealing with analog equipment and maintenance costs.

"I look forward to read an answer from you that will prove otherwise, and which does not contain any more attempts to teach us about the resolution of different digital formats. That info is like a sleeping pill, and is of no further interest, ok?"

You said "teach us" as if you were speaking on behalf of everybody (and I was in turn speaking to everybody -- I wasn't). Get off your high horse.

Date: Sat, August 14, 2010, 09:49:52 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

Michael,
I apologize for the part of my post that suggested you didn't know analog from digital, and putting into your mouth a meaning that I now understand that you never meant to express. After re-reading you and the article, I must admit I actually totally misunderstood what you said about the 50 kHz, and that we do agree on the terms and definitions after all. Really sorry to underestimate you, man. My fault.
2vN for me tonight.

Date: Sat, August 14, 2010, 08:18:49 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

Michael,
I never said vinyl was superior to anything, I said I prefer it when available. That the recording engineers must do a good job to ensure a good result, no matter what format of the final product, is so obvious it goes without saying.
And as I also said, I know pretty much what I need to know about the different technologies, so lets not beat each other with boring details in that area... I'm not that interested in the theory anyway, I'm really trying to disconnect from that perspective when listening to and comparing different formats.
"Sound" is really a term for a perceptual event caused by some physical events called soundwaves. It's not "sound" until it reaches your ear and generates some corresponding activity in your brain and your "conciousness", whatever that really is. Soundwaves are analog, and so is the information contained in the pattern of a vinyl record.
I can't see where you've answered my question about defining the bitrate of a vinyl record, which isn't very strange, as this is a meaningless question based on faulty premises. Analog information doesn't have a bitrate. Bitrates are amongst the terms used to define the resolution of digital audio, which in it's turn is a digital representation of the analog signal. What comes out of your speakers is analog soundwaves, no matter how many times the signal has been converted back and forth between analog and digital formats prior to the speakers.
You once again supply this link (I don't know why, really), this time pointing to a certain part that deals with the Nyquist theory. It seems that this is your way of trying to defend your statement about vinyl having a bitrate of about 50 kHz. Well, lets look at what your source says in the article:
"Audiophiles have claimed since the beginning of digital audio that vinyl records on an analog system sound better than digital audio. Indeed, you can find evidence that analog recording and playback equipment can be measured up to 50khz, over twice our threshold of hearing."
What the article says has NOTHING to do with bitrate, Michael. It says that the human ear has it's limitations, and that this limit, in the high frequency range, is about 20 kHz. (Your ear can't hear analog soundwaves whith a frequency over 20 kHz (+/-)) And that a vinyl record can sometimes contain sounds that goes up to 50 kHz, over twice as high frequency as you're able to hear. This describes one end of the frequency range of a vinyl record, and has absolutely nothing to do with bitrate.
Btw, if one absolutely wants to mix the terms and try to say something about the resoulution of an analog format by using terms from the digital world, one could say that, given ideal conditions, the vinyl record has an "infinite bitrate". But it's just silly, really.
When it comes to analog sound, it's more relevant to investigate the frequency range, dynamic range and distortion.

Personally, I'd much rather hear your opinion on Walter Becker's bass playing on Snowbound, the engineer's job with the track and your experience with listening to it on a really good surround audio system, than discussing the generally well known differences between the concepts of "analog" and "digital". Differences which I still suspect you haven quite catched. Sorry to say so, but that's the only conclusion I get to when I read your post.

I look forward to read an answer from you that will prove otherwise, and which does not contain any more attempts to teach us about the resolution of different digital formats. That info is like a sleeping pill, and is of no further interest, ok?

Date: Sat, August 14, 2010, 07:58:40 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Lurker Ray, why would an audiophile propogate mp3s? Well, let's see... I may not be able to send files which are around 50MB in size, whereas I know I could send them if they were around 5-10MB. It has to do with the limitations of AOL -- nothing on my part. However, I intend on giving the WAV files a shot.

Nevertheless, once I send them, X Factor will have the cleanest copies of these songs (along with myself).

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 23:15:44 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Jazzassin, look back at the original link posted and scroll down about halfway to read about vinyl audio/Nyquist theory: http://www.tweakheadz.com/16_vs_24_bit_audio.htm

Digital audio in and of itself isn't superior to analog; it has to do with the recorded bit depth & sample rate. You'd need 24-bit, 96kHz to produce quality superior to that of an analog record, and even then it would have to be mixed and mastered in an appropriate manner (to take advantage of the quality difference). Obviously a half-assed mix won't hold a candle to a well-mixed audio CD -- that's usually the audio engineer's job.

No matter how nice a canvas you have, you cannot do much with it unless you're a good artist with the right tools.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 20:20:39 ET
Posted by: So Cousin Dupree sucks...?, But you can DANCE to it:

From an article in the South Oregon Mail Tribune about an upcoming dance performance:

"Seiber and Giancarlo also will perform a duet of Giancarlo's original choreography to the Steely Dan number "Cousin Dupree." The piece also will be incorporated into upcoming OCT production "Riffin' and Tappin,' " opening Sept. 10."

Full article: http://bit.ly/c8F6uV

Now who's The Bluebook's designated dance correspondent that can catch the show with video camera in tow? I'd like to see that coreography!

/PGE

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 17:50:10 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin,

Just to clearify, I never meant to trigger a longer discussion on vinyl vs. anything digital (I use both), or to get a lot of general information on different audio formats. The things that are correct I know, and those which are not correct are not correct.
Though I was once formally educated in the field of electronics, I actually don't find the theoretical performance of different technologies very interesting at all, believe it or not.
I just wondered if anyone had heard Snowbound on vinyl or some fancy digital format... And I got an answer, too. The poster who answered liked the DVD-Audio version, which peaked my curiousity, even though I admit to have a weakness for good ol' 2 ch. stereo, preferably vinyl records when possible.
So when I ask for reviews of the "modern formats", its not bitrate/depth I ask for. I know all that shit. I'm only interested in how it sounds to me for real, not the specs printed in the ads or some explanation of the technology on some wiki page.
I will of course have to listen to the stuff myself, but I thought it was smart to hear what others had to say about their experience with those versions of the goodies, as well.
And Gaucho Mess and other "personal initiatives" is out of question, whatever format they may be. Baad, baad things...
But clearly understanding the difference between "analog" and "digital" must be considered basic knowledge if one shall throw in anything enlightening to a discussion on sound and technology, I'd say.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 15:51:30 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Correct me if I'm wrong
but didn't we have a quite
extensive bunch of posts about
the horrible Gaucho Mess Mixes
about two years ago?

I recall the outrage when
people realized that someone
would actually put their own
terrible, cheezy synth on top
of cherished Steely Dan Demos.

Not to mention why would any
true "Audiophile" propagate
such junk in a lossy MP3 format?

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 15:43:54 ET
Posted by: I am, just kidding

But those would't be bad.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 14:55:58 ET
Posted by: I am, backstage

The SD/Fagen tunes will be Ruby Baby, What I Do, and Lunch With Gina.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 13:18:03 ET
Posted by: the dan fan man, chicago

Any ideas of the tuneage we can expect these guys to play? Thanks.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 12:43:09 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

Michael,
how do you define the sampling rate of a vinyl record? You say they're a little past 50 kHz? Last time I checked, the vinyl record as such was an analog format. The resolution being used throughout the production prosesses before the pressing of the vinyl varies, but many vinyl records was recorded 100% analog in an era when digital sound formats wasn't invented. If you play those on a mechanical turntable and through an analog amplifier, nothing of it has ever been close to anything digital.
Would you still say they have a "sample rate"? How come? Are you referring to the quality and limitations of the magnet tape used for recording? Mics? Mixing console? The accuracy of the cutting machines? The quality of the vinyl material? I'm talking about a true analog world here. "Sample rate" I don't find any room for in that terminology.
Sample rate is a keyword to describing the resolution of digital representations of sound. Sound, which in itself is analog and has no sampling rate. (It's not sampled at all.)
I'd love to be explained how you calculate the sample rate of an analog vinyl record?

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 12:12:21 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

Michael: Yes. 16 and 24 for bits refers to the amount of information for each sample, and therefore not expressed per unit time...ergo not a rate.

since these are measures of binary information resolution:

16 bit = 2[exp 16] = 65,536 pieces of information per sample

24 bit = 2[exp 24] = 16,777,216 pieces of information per sample

If the frequency range is 20 kHz it really requires a 24 bit system to hear all the nuances...and allows digital audio to be a high fidelity system. Digital audio was originally designed as a noise reduction system pre-CDs. Without a minimum of 20 bits (there are 20 bit CDs) and a high sampling rate (48-96 kHz), a lo Q CD or MP4/3...harmonics and the good "dirt" of the human voice and instruments can be missed, resulting in a flat sound.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 11:55:46 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

Mr Ess Dee,
Right. Shame Sony and other companies don't make more of the SACD/CD hybrids than the do, as it's the best digital audio format yet IMO. Made for both stereo and surround output, and real high-resolution (2822,4 kHz/1 bit).

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 11:43:01 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

Michael, I didn't read your post until i had posted mine now.
You're right, mostly it's meant for live music DVD's where the music is mostly sent to the front and middle speakers, while i.e. audience sounds are sent to the back speakers.
But what I'm interested in is checking out the sound and listening experience from a real, dedicated DVD-Audio studio recording in 5.1. Like the Don's solo albums.
The problem of getting a subwoofer's output to blend smoothly into the overall sound is widely known, and goes for even the best systems.
And surround is still surround - a lot of sound from a lot of directions.
I'm not convinced that it's worth the money, but as I said, I will give it another chance.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 11:27:47 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

X,
I've not searched up the DVD-Audio releases yet, maybe someone else can answer to where to find and which are available?
BUT remember: Not all DVD players can handle DVD-Audio discs, especially older ones don't. When the format was released, the manufacturers wanted us all to buy new hardware, and most older players are for DVD-Video only. So check what your player can actually play before ordering any new discs.
Another difference between the typical Home Cinema system and a DVD-Audio 5.1 system is that Home Cinema uses different types of speakers for front/back/centre/sub channels, while the DVD-Audio uses 5 identical speakers + sub.
The cheaper Home Cinema speaker systems which don't include a surround reciever, uses a little central unit box for separating channels (or have separating filter built-in in the sub) and has stereo input and 5.1 output will not under any curcumstances do anything good for your music. You'll need a good surround reciever, the right speakers and a DVD-Audio compatible player. This means for a lot of us that upgrading to surround sound will be very expencive. And the number of albums worth a listen released in this format is very limited. On top of all that, you may be disappointed to find that surround sound may feel strange and "wrong" no matter what quality of the equipment.
Some systems can give you 2 ch. stereo output from a DVD-A 5.1 disc, but then you won't get any improvement in sound, rather the opposite, as the converting being done in your reciever isn't really very clever - a good standard CD will sound better.
My recommendation is "old fashioned" stereo Hi-Fi and really good speakers. No problem to get enough deep bass, as long as the bass membranes are big enough and the power supply in your amp is strong enough.
If you're still interested, do what I intend to do: Buy your favorite album in DVD if available, go to the hardware supplier and listen to it on whatever system they have there before making a purchase of expencive rigs and discs.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 11:18:25 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Jazzassin, I think that you're confusing DVD video audio with using a DVD strictly for audio purposes. You see, even though many DVDs utilize surround sound, they're generally recorded at 16-bit, 48kHz whereas your vinyls can go up a little past 50kHz sample rate. However, your typical Blu-ray movie will utilize 24-bit, 48/96kHz for audio. However, there is also the question of source material, or if the original recordings were recorded with that level of quality in mind (which pretty much every modern film is). Musically, DVDs are utilized for playback of live concerts and such and are generally not mixed much higher than your standard audio CD. If, however, somebody were to use the DVD format to the fullest for maximum audio fidelity, particularly of something like Steely Dan, you might have a change of heart.

The X Factor, I could but I wouldn't be able to send them in WAV format due to size restrictions when sending large files, so you'd have to settle for mp3s. We'll see.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 10:52:06 ET
Posted by: Mr ess Dee, SD

Disregard that link in the post. it has nothing to do with the post.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 10:50:53 ET
Posted by: Mr, Ess Dee

I think if you have the Fagen boxed set, you can forgo the Fagen DVD-A's (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

The format was basically DOA. I was able to obtain mine at retail stores, as there was a modest push of for format at the time. These days, I'm sure you would have to find them online somewhere. I never had a surround sound stereo so they were of limited value to me.

http://steelydan.com/2vncorrect.html

I'd recommend searching out the Gaucho SACD/CD hybrid.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 10:32:26 ET
Posted by: The X Factor, Minneapolis

Where are the DVD-A versions of the albums available? Are they really worth a purchase if you already own the whole collection on CD?

Michael-

I'm interested in your cleaned up versions of 2nd Arrangement / Bear / etc. I have copies of my own but don't think they're of the best quality. How did you clean them up? If you're in a sharing mood, I'd love to hear them. Feel free to email me if this isn't the best forum for that sort of discussion.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 09:18:11 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

If only they WOULD record the Dukes tour for a DVD release. Time to do it fellas! What's the problem? You don't think it would sell????
And while you're at it let's go ahead and put some SD live shots together for a DVD also.

Oh well.

Myron - The gig/gig thing was funny.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 09:01:17 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

Michael,
What worries me about the DVD-A 5.1 format is not of a technical nature. It can obviously contain a hell of a lot more information than CDDA. It's more of a psychological/psycho acoustic/perceptive/habit nature... I used to be highly skeptical towards that way of hearing music - the separation of the sound into 6 different channels with the corresponding speakers placed for a surround experience, the subwoofer being the biggest problem child in the system because it takes a lot to really get the sound from it to blend in in a pleasant way. For sound effects on movies and games it's a very fine system indeed, but to this day I have never heard anything surround that beats, let's say, a heavy grade vinyl record played on a quality turntable through a proper 2 ch. stereo equipment, which is my favorite format for music.
I never use my surround system for pure music listening, and have therefore never bothered to buy the DVD versions of the albums. But I will now give it a new chance, as my curiousity is peaked.
And Morph did get a Grammy for best surround sound, didn't it?
It's about time I try to update myself a bit in this area. And maybe it's time for a 2vN (title track) listen for me, as well. Face Slaps 'n all.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 08:47:49 ET
Posted by: Myron, US

"How many gigs is necessary to adequately reproduce a studio quality recording?"

My experience is that around the 5th or 6th gig of a tour is when the band is hitting on all fours. Before that, the bass player and drummer aren't always quite in rhythm. And after that, the singer often starts showing signs of vocal fatigue. Therefore, your best bet for the Dukes tour is Raleigh, Richmond and maybe Boston.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 08:22:03 ET
Posted by: Michael,

How many gigs is necessary to adequately reproduce a studio quality recording? That would depend on the original recording quality. If it's in the 24-bit, 96kHz realm then obviously you'd need more memory than an audio CD has to offer. Then there's the issue of audio channels. An audio CD is 2 channels (far as I'm aware). If you increase it to 5 (or 7), you're more than doubling the amount of audio streams to the receiver, thereby increasing the required memory exponentially. In order to have a true studio quality rendering, you'd need around 3-4x the memory of a typical cdda (wav) file. Therefore, a DVD should be able to accomodate for the neeeded storage space since a single-layer DVD can hold about 4.3 gigs.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 07:51:36 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, snowbound

Hm. Maybe it's time for me to convert. I've always had this thing about old fashioned 2 ch. stereo being the ultimate format for music, while 5.1 is the movie sound format.
But if the DVD-A versions of our favorite music has got a face lift that really makes a positive difference, it would be interesting to hear it. I'll have to get some of those now I think. Thanks for your input, folks.

Here's a little reward for you all - an Almost Gothic Google Search page:
http://www.shinysearch.com/home.php?style=gothic-girl<ext=Almost%20Gothic

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 06:05:54 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Doc Mu, you mean 'bit depth', not 'bit rate'. It's a common mistake. There is sample rate, e.g. 44.1kHz. Look here for more on this subject: http://www.tweakheadz.com/16_vs_24_bit_audio.htm

Hoops, I knew that was the case, hence my apprehension.

Date: Fri, August 13, 2010, 01:26:09 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

Dugan: Indeed, the bit rate is the key. The DVD-A cuts through that 2-D sound. Many of the songs are remixed as well. The only way to year it IMO. Roger Nicholls saturated top end of the 1999 edition of Gaucho, causing loud passages to be clipped. The DVD-A brings LIFE into the beast.

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 22:38:10 ET
Posted by: Dugan,

Forgot to mention bit depth of 24 (versus 16)...

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 22:36:52 ET
Posted by: Dugan,

JazzAssassain, you're right about Snowbound. Same deal with Countermoon during the chorus; it's nearly subsonic. I've actually got Kama on DVD-A. Resolution-wise sound quality is comparable to the CD (48 versus 44.1) but it takes on a whole other dimension in 5.1. My sub goes down to ~30kHz, and while the walls still pulse during those low bass bits, you can hear the sub getting a bit ragged.

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 16:46:35 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

SD has a reputation for "good" production and sound "quality", at least at their best many fans regard their recordings as close to perfection. I use quotation marks because I know that these are terms that can be discussed, but especially Aja and Gaucho were once looked upon as the ultimate technical level for music production in their time. I even know that some vinyl record manufacturers used Gaucho for adjustment of equipment like the cutting head for the negative matrix, because that album was considered to be the most perfect sounding reference recording at the time...
However, normally when you play a SD record, it will perform quite well both on a high-end equipment and on the simplest available turntable through your grandma's tube radio, or as compressed digital files on your iWhatever for that matter.
An exception to this general rule is a song from Kamakiriad, "Snow Bound", which has Walter (who actually co-wrote it) playing some basslines that often will cause trouble when played through poor equipment, due to some really low frequencies that's easily distorted in the speakers - or not coming through at all. The only way I can listen to Snowbound is on my best equipment. If I try to play it through a headset, small pc speakers, a ghetto blaster or anything else, it's trouble. "Through your best equipment is the only way you should listen to Steely Dan, anyway" I can hear some of you saying now, and I tend to agree, but that's another question.
The production on Snowbound is not only characterized by the low/sub bass notes as such, but also by what (at least to my ears) sounds like some kind of gap in the sound between those basslines and the rest of it. It's musically very clever and enjoyable notes that Walter plays here, but I sometimes wonder if it really was a good idea to play them on a 5 or 6 string bass or whatever it is he did that made the lowest notes an octave lower than they would "normally" have been. Because this demands more than average from your stereo equipment to sound good. (Of course, all good recordings give a much better listening experience on a good equipment, often revealing things you don't even hear on a cheaper rig or on a cheaper format.) SD/Becker/Fagen songs are usually not unplayable on anything, though, but Snowbound DEMANDS a proper amp and speakers to get through at all.
And the bass seems to live a life of it's own, in a parallell universe to where the rest of the song is, soundwise. Despite all this, it's still one of my absolute favorites from Kamakiriad.
But I wonder if others has similar thoughts (or totally different thoughts) on Snowbound? And if anybody has heard it in other, and presumeably better sound formats than standard CD Audio 44,1kHz/16bit? Maybe SACD, DVD Audio, vinyl? And if so, what can you say about the sound on Snowbound compared to CD Audio? Just curious...

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 16:45:02 ET
Posted by: Alkali, NYC

To Tony in Joisey....

"Aaaaahhhhhh!!!"

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 16:28:05 ET
Posted by: tony, new jersey, by the ocean.

"roll your cart right up the aisle, kiss the checkout girls goodbye, ride the ramp to the freeway, beneath the blood orange sky " that is elavator music? it's a great song. i am not a music critic, just a danfan. i love that song.

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 16:00:27 ET
Posted by: Connie, In the vineyard

http://www.strictlybluegrass.com/

Yay! October 1st!

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 13:40:17 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

love the "face slaps" desciption. Tres cool!

Regarding boots, for the record: we don't offer them, tell how to get them or suggest that we might offer or tell how to get them. It's not because I'm a nanny but because I am the one who is held accountable--I'm the one who has to take time to deal with conflicts related to them. Of course, what you do off the Blue is none of my damn business. I clearly don't speak for Fagen or Becker or Steely Dan, but I think a reason they don't like those demos offered is that they think they are sub par.


"There Goes The"/"Taboo" post:

I said earlier:
"there's always some very valid albeit subjective minority opinions. They are welcome and provocative. And then there are some others who say things--often as an anon-- to get the rush of getting a rise out of fans and don't deserve attention. "

Please explain how is that inconsistent with what your opinion. Thank you.

Alkali's post:
Most ALL Steely Dan is elevator music. In fact, for many years it was the third most popular elevator music.

Directed in general and to no one post:

There are a couple of things that leave me cool in Steely Dan, but really compared to my other favorite artists, there are next to none of these. For example, it's not that I don't like Donald's "Rhymes"--it's just that I am indifferent to it and prefer Al Green's. I can run hot or cold on some of the stuff of "Kamakiriad"--sometimes to me it comes off as cerebalized funk.

Be it Steely Dan or someone else, when I do have something I don't like, I write and post about it from the vantage of explaining my lack of connection and an open-ness of having someone enlighten me as to what I might not be "getting". I'm always willing to have someone help me turn a song I don't like into one I learn to love. If Walter and/or Donald say something is their best work, I won't necessarily agree, but I will have humility to give pause and thought to what those who created it have to say.

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 12:39:16 ET
Posted by: richardgpw, Detroit

Just wanted to say that I just bought my 10 row R/C @ The Fox for the Sept 8th show :) Sooooooooo Stoked! Warning: If Anyone tells me that I need to sit down - I will buy them a beer so they will end up jointing me :) Peace, Richad in the D!

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 11:48:25 ET
Posted by: Don't Shoot, Me

Deacon Blues isn't quirky enough to be in the upper echelon of SD tunes for me. No fault of the song, it's just a prevailing quality in my favorite tracks. I'm a quirky person. I could be the protagonist in a lot of their songs, but not that one. And I agree with critic Griel Marcus who wrote in Village Voice that the lyric should have been "sue me if I played it wrong."

But I remember (as a broke college student) having buyer's remorse after plucking down $25 for the Aja MFSL CD. One listen to DB quelled that. The mix was so spacious and dimensional. Hard to top the sonic experience of hearing that on a high end stereo.

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 10:57:32 ET
Posted by: There goes the, taboo

Never known Mr Hoops to miss the point like that before ! He is normally so cool.
I thought it was a given that listening to music is a subjective experience. Maybe a mature contributor could help me to re-evalute my own difficulty with Deacon Blues. It might stem from having a thing about angular, unpredictable musical structures - something that drew me to SD in the first place. I get the spiritual core of the tune but the smooth, creamy predictability of the musical structure takes the edge of its impact, and - God help me - I start thinking Vegas showtune. I have seen intelligent discussions about stuff like this here before, hope they are still possible.
Despite my niggling reservation I would still, obviously, rather listen to my less favourite SD tracks than the entire recorded works of every other artist who ever lived !

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 10:46:10 ET
Posted by: Michael,

I do have the Gaucho material in studio-clear quality (because I worked on the tracks myself). Well, except for Second Arangement which is vastly improved but not quite as perfect as Kulee Baba or The Bear. Note that just because I cleaned them, that doesn't mean that the flaws on the original recording are no longer present. There are a few such as how on The Bear the vocal track isn't pristine in its recording quality due to a flaw in the actual recording, not because of anything I did. The tracks are completely hiss & noise free.

Nevertheless, I don't know if people would take too kindly to me uploading them. I know Hoops would be none too happy about it and I don't want to cause any trouble.

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 10:42:36 ET
Posted by: Maxine, Lincoln Mall

The Brian Wilson Gershwin project sounds interesting, at least judging by the short clips on Amazon. However, after listening to them, I beg to submit that the "Reimagining Gershwin" concept might have been more intriguing if tackled
by The Donald -- arrangements, vocals, completion of fragments, production, and all.

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 10:19:52 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston! SCRATCH THAT! NEW YORK

The Gaucho "Mess Mixes." I agree, a lot of the added instrumentation really leaves something to be desired. Still, no one else has stepped up to the plate to better the sound quality. I think, in the right hands, some added instrumentation could be pretty cool.

In regards to Night By Night, the Dan have gone on record saying that was a blatant attempt at writing a single.

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 09:22:47 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

Alkali - Wow! That post raised an eyebrow.

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 08:32:37 ET
Posted by: Alkali, NYC

Ok, here’s my list of SD shame and the reasons for it,
to paraphrase a movie line from a few years back….

“If you ever catch me listening to these I want you to slice my head off with a Spyro Gyra record..”

1. Deacon blues (elevator music)
2. Last mall, Blues beach (same reason)
3. Third world man (political message)
4. With a gun (same reason)
5. Cousin Dupree (sophomoric. come on boys, you can do better than that!)
6. Gaucho (ahem, for obvious reasons)

Honorable mention…..NxN (same reason as No. 5)

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 06:33:13 ET
Posted by: Michael,

Awhile ago somebody put up those Gaucho outtakes except he added arrangements to the demos w/o backing arrangements and I must say they were quite horrendous. As well, the reduced hiss & noise was a joke -- any two-bit PC user who knows his way around a DAW could've done a much better job. And he's a PROFESSIONAL? Holy sharks Batman!

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 05:15:39 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

lovethisgig:
Face slaps? Fantastic! :)
I promise from now on I'll use 2vN for a good wakeup call and slap myself with it whenever I realize I'm off the track. Given my average frequency of tracking problems, I guess I'll learn to love it now.

I agree with Dean and others when it comes to Deacon Blues, and find it to be definitely Danessential in it's kind of elevated melancholy. But then again, the entire Aja album is very difficult for me to review with a certain degree of critical attitude, as it represents too many memories, and partly served as the soundtrack to my life thirty-something years ago. I think I like it like that, and won't even try to be objective in this question.

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 04:52:43 ET
Posted by: KD, OL

Got married this past weekend, quite happy. Lateness with my mixes and heaps of Northern Soul prevented a Dan song from getting into the KD-picked reception, but the two speeches prior to the laydown referenced both SD, and (twice) the Making of Aja DVD from one of my best mates.

A great night. I probably should have replaced "My Old School" with my buddy's second playing of "Soul Finger," but so it goes, so it goes, so it goes, so it goes.

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 02:42:25 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Here is something out of deep left field, drifting to left-centre if there's a wind.

I've got a thing for Debarge, which is not really the left field part, but it matters in the telling.

I'm looking at youtube comments on the song Who's Holding Donna Now..and some guy says it's the genius of Randy Goodrum that made the song. Goodrum wrote it with David Foster and Jay Graydon...but I still don't really know who Goodrum is so I look him up and see he's written all sorts of things, for many different artists, and for years.

A couple of years back he made an album with Graydon..and in a lengthy interview Goodrum said they'd started doing songs with 'quirky subject matter' (here's your SD connection,apart from Graydon):

'People said, "Oh, you guys are trying to be like Steely Dan." No, no, no. It's always amazed me that there's only been one intelligent pop group ever put out. I think that there have been others that tried to, but it's difficult to get a record deal with stuff like that, and the fact that it resembles Steely Dan means that we were not paying homage to Steely Dan, it's just who we are. We started off as jazz guys, but we also like pop records. We like records that are easily digestible for regular folks. I mean, we could have made it as austere and obscure as you can imagine, but that's not really what we want. Every step of the way, that record was made exactly the way we wanted, because we had nothing to lose. We had no record company, nobody was telling us what to do.

SF: I think you're getting the Steely Dan comparison – which is good – because you have the musicianship which is just meticulous. But then there's also the lyrics. You listen to Steely Dan songs sometimes, and you wonder if they just had an acid trip and started writing stuff stream of conscious, or if they really have something incredibly deep to say.

Randy: I worked with Elliot Scheiner who mixed all those records, and Elliott produced a record on me in 1980. There's some back stories to some of those songs, and I would say that every lyric Fagen or Becker ever wrote was very intentional and significant. I wouldn't say that it's stream of consciousness at all. I used to study those records to try to get everything that they were saying, because it was real art. It was like a Miles Davis record. I mean, I'm a jazz guy from way back, and I still listen to some of the Miles Davis records because I'm still learning things from the nuance. And yet, I don't think that anybody's gonna say, "What the heck did that song mean?" on any of our songs. I think they pretty well get the point across. But it's not dumb songs, either. This is an intelligent pop record.'

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 01:38:23 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

Not sure whether or not I'm misunderstanding Hoops' post but I'm not trying to stir anything up here -- I was simply joining in on the conversation about not getting/digging a song that's seemingly universally revered. I still like the song -- I like just about EVERY Steely Dan song, except maybe Cousin Dupree -- but it doesn't effect me the same way others do. Just my opinion and I'm enjoying the posts from those who (vehemently) disagree.

Date: Thurs, August 12, 2010, 00:31:03 ET
Posted by: lovethisgig, atlanta

Please notice the winking emoticon after my previous comment. The "heresy" part was a joke ... well sort of. :) Certainly, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Hoops, Bad Sneakers is my wife's favorite Dan tune -- at least most of the time. On occasion, I've heard her declare Western World to be her fave.

And I love the face slaps in 2vN. :)

Peace

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 23:36:32 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

If someone posted that they hated sex or that sex was overrated, I wouldn't start defending whether I should be having orgasms and intensely enjoying them. The same is true for "Deacon Blues".

---

"Bad Sneakers" is my favorite but for years I've said that "Deacon Blues" is the quintessential Steely Dan tune. It's the epitome of "sublime" in my book and I've found through the years the same holds true for many other Steely Dan fans as well.

I believe it maybe was the "Plush" video when Walter and Donald were asked--and I am paraphrasing--if there was any moment that they realized that had really created something just totally amazing. Walter replied that when he first heard the final mix of 'Deacon Blues' he thought it was the pinnacle.

In the past 17 years that we've had Dandom forums (Digest, Blue, etc.) there's always some very valid albeit subjective minority opinions. They are welcome and provocative. And then there are some others who say things--often as an anon-- to get the rush of getting a rise out of fans and don't deserve attention.

From my perspective, the opinions of those who don't like "Deacon Blues" aren't essential to my enjoyment or appreciation of Steely Dan--if I gave them time of day, I'd next be worrying about the opinion of all the people I know who hate Steely Dan.


Fly low and be cool,

Jim

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 22:26:05 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Lovethisgig, I might differ on 'heresy' but as you said....Deacon Blues has to be what SD is all about.

Heresy ?

What can you say when it comes to likes and dislikes ?

The music either moves you or it doesn't. The Royal Scam (track) does not do it for me. Never has. If it does one day, I get a new song to like (more). The qualifier is...of course it's a good song,I just don't like it as much as the other ones around it.

I've always had a thing about Springtime. I've mentioned this before and that's led the closet Springtime lovers to surface. But mostly, I feel on my own with that one - I've never seen a very stern defence of it.

I spent a long time skipping East St. Louis toodle-oo...but I listen now. Even was even an occasional Josie skipper (or at least an unimpressed listener) but I found something new in it a few years ago and now I look forward to it.

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 22:02:01 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

For me Deacon Blues is like
Sinatra singing "Angel Eyes".
Doesn't get much better.

"Walter and I had been working on that song at a house in Malibu. I played him that line, and he said, 'You mean it's like, they call these cracker assholes this grandiose name like the Crimson Tide, and I'm this loser, so they call me this other grandiose name, Deacon Blues?' And I said, 'Yeah!' He said, 'Cool! Let's finish it!'"

- Donald Fagen

"It was an outgrowth of a specific mood that pertained at a given time...I remember the night that we mixed that one thinking that it was really good and wanting to hear it over and over which is never the case."

- Walter Becker

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 18:45:32 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. It's Happy Hour

Ben, I'm with you on Howard Levy. I know it wouldn't likely happen at any show I could get to, but I'd like to see it happen nonetheless.


I'm simply shocked that West of Hollywood, Godwhacker and especially Deacon Blue are mentioned as weak songs. Hey, to each his/her own, I guess. But I agree with lovethisgig. I have wept while listening on several occasions. It isn't necessarily my "favorite" SD song, but it is the quintessential Dan song, IMO.

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 16:21:18 ET
Posted by: Ab, Ba

I hear Michael McDonald is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist. He will dedicate What a Fool Believes.

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 15:45:08 ET
Posted by: Ben, Indy

My three hopes for the Dukes of September Chicago show one month from today are:

1. A special tune in honor of 9/11

2. Howard Levy joining the fellas for some extended harmonica jams

3. A pre, post, or both, DukeFest

Have a Happy Humpday!

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 15:27:27 ET
Posted by: lovethisgig, Atlanta

“The protagonist is not a musician. He just sort of imagines that that would be one of the mythic forms of loserdom to which he might aspire. And you know, who’s to say that he’s not right, about a thing like that?” – Walter Becker

Deacon Blues is the Danifesto - if you will. A Declaration of Independence. The thrill of victory found deep inside the agony of defeat. The soul of Dan. "This brother is free; I'll be what I want to be." If you haven't shed a tear at least once upon hearing it, I would submit, you're not hearing it. Stop with the heresy. ;-)

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 14:29:01 ET
Posted by: There goes the, taboo

Chris - I have always secretly been underwhelmed by Deacon Blue but never had the courage to say so because it has religious significance for most danfans. Supremely musical of course, lyrically intriguing.....but I like my dan a bit more red in tooth and claw.

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 13:56:27 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

Funny - West of Hollywood and Pixeleen are my two favorite 21st century Dan tunes, and are among my short list of tunes that can stand with the best of their 70s output.

I do tend to skip over Deacon Blues. Just a little too smooth for me. I recognize how well its written and performed -- I just feel like I'm on an elevator.

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 13:17:21 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

And then there's this hardly hearable, but still irritating little scratch in the pause between Buzz and Pretzel on my old vinyl copy of Pretzel Logic. I don't like it. ;)

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 11:42:07 ET
Posted by: You can't forget, the throwaway

"West of Hollywood" i.e. Waste of Disc Space - shouldn't be on 2vN

Also, "Last Mall"

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 11:03:05 ET
Posted by: Just, MHO

It think they laid two big eggs with Pixeleen and Godwhacker

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 10:43:53 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

"Save for its otherworldly guitar solo, I consider Third World Man one of the weakest tracks in the entire Dan catalogue"

Blimey!!!

Now that IS controversial.

I'm pretty much speechless!! LOL

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 10:42:28 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

1. I love it when Walter sings "Haitian Divorce" live, and think it's a perfect song for his voice and attitude. Not more than I love the studio version though, as that would hardly be possible, but just as much!
2. I can't stand the handclaps on "Two Against Nature" (title track), and find it to be the most (and only?) disturbing musical element in any SD song ever. Aaargh!

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 10:06:24 ET
Posted by: fagenism, -

RANDOM.

What are some examples of situations where you feel like you differ from the typical hardcore Dan fan, in that you:

1. love something that is widely criticized, and

2. dislike something that is widely acclaimed?

I guess I will start:

1. I love the album cut of Jack Of Speed, and find it vastly superior to the less slick, Becker sung live version.

2. Save for its otherworldly guitar solo, I consider Third World Man one of the weakest tracks in the entire Dan catalogue.

Date: Wed, August 11, 2010, 02:34:28 ET
Posted by: vote for, Pretzel Logic

http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/music/nyc_greatest_hits_6WkRrJ9VFgt4U6JF2MoQsK/3

Date: Tues, August 10, 2010, 21:16:26 ET
Posted by: Denise, Hinktown

I envy you NYers that can see SD alum at places like 55 Bar. Carolyn has such a fine voice, I wish I could be there.

CerpinTaxt, pretty cool. Go see Carolyn: enjoy!

Date: Tues, August 10, 2010, 15:28:49 ET
Posted by: Those Bastards!!, Stranded

Anyone heading to the Sept. 3rd Jones Beach show please note: there is NO bus from the LIRR station anymore due to budget cut$. Try and carpool, or look into taxi service if you are not driving yourself. You have been warned. Carry on.

Date: Tues, August 10, 2010, 14:42:51 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, drooling

Heavy Grade Vinyl... Drooool...

Date: Tues, August 10, 2010, 14:28:07 ET
Posted by: websearch, ws

This reporter agrees with Hoops' ideas about the meaning behind the name Dukes of September.

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/music/index.ssf/2010/07/donald_fagen_michael_mcdonald.html

“Dukes” is evocative of classic doo-wop groups like the Earls and the Mello-Kings, and “September” alludes to both the time of the year that the group will be on the road, and the members’ ages (think of standards such as “September Song” and “The September of My Years”).

Date: Tues, August 10, 2010, 14:01:30 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Jazzassin -

I have an Advance CD but I
understand that the heavy grade
vinyl version is even better!

Can't wait to grab that. It
is set for release August 24.

Date: Tues, August 10, 2010, 12:40:02 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston! SCRATCH THAT! NEW YORK

After being in NYC for a little over a month on an unpaid internship, I landed a job at Starbucks.

And it's pretty sweet.

My boss's name?

Aja.

Date: Tues, August 10, 2010, 10:43:37 ET
Posted by: Little, Birdie

Carolyn Leonhart at 55 Bar Thursday from 7 to 9. No cover.

Date: Tues, August 10, 2010, 10:30:12 ET
Posted by: hoops, back, in chicago

Thanks to all who brought the spam to my attention, including but not limited to "Dean", "Ginny" and, of course, "Doc". When I am away, I can do little modification with my app phone save for some deletes. Unfortunately, I sometimes peg off the good ones too when I edit from far: so please keep that in mind if for some reason your post (unintentionally) disappears.

The New Blue is close at hand--hoping for August 19 debut but...you know my foibles. Thanks for your patience and special props to those who have funded things during the transition.

=========

Regarding Jeff Porcaro, I do miss him on so many albums. The circumstances of his death sound complicated, too much so for me to grasp and such that I don't feel kind or productive trying to do so. Mµ has been most thorough.

Perhaps the best way to remember him is to consider David Garfield and Friends' CD, "Tribute to Jeff". I think it is out of production but there are some new and used copies still to be found.

Here's a link on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Tribute-Jeff-Porcaro-Various-Artists/dp/B000000U51/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_i

I hate it when people copy and paste other web pages' content here, but I'm going to make an exception in tribute to Jeff, taken from Amazon.com:

----

"Those of us who miss Jeff will value this tribute by some of the best in the business It is at times poignant, at others reminiscent, but mostly inspirational.
The collaboration of Jeff's friends, family, influencers, mentors, and those that idolised him, is a true testament to the influence he had not only to the lives that he touched, but also to the music to which he contributed and in many cases made.

All the songs have been carefully chosen to reflect a particular taste or an era in his life. A fantastic remake of 'Lowdown' with Al Laboriel Jr on drums will certainly get you groovin'. Jimi Hendrix fans will appreciate this rendition of 'If Six Were Nine', and a classic Bernard Purdie, shuffling away to 'Babylon Sisters'.

But the best song on the album probably without a doubt would be "My Heart Wants to Know". This song, written by Dave Garfield and Friends, is a very emotional song in tribute to Jeff and reflects on the tragedy of him leaving us too soon. Those who know him or of him would most certainly shed a tear. I did!!

Do yourself a favour, add this one to your collection.

If you like this you will probably also like bothe Los Lobotomy albums and 'Tambu' by Toto

-----


This cd is not new, and it will not receive the promotion it never received. It will never be a chart topper or hyper popular. Besides, I think the record company (Zebra) doesn't exist anymore, but...
I can tell you I picked it up immediately when it was released and that it is one of those cds I would never get rid of. The list of artists invited on this collection is impressive and too long to mention. Basically, you will find the most representative of "west coast", or "Californian" music, great jazzmen, all paying a homage to the great Jeff.

You will find more than one cover version and more than one instrumental here : Lowdown, E-minor shuffle (remake of S. Dan's "Black Friday"), Babylon sisters, and Let's stay together (remember that one ? you will also find that tune on a Tina Turner album, as well as on a sax player's called Bobby Militello), with M. McDonald on vocals, among others. You will also hear more aggressive tunes : If six was nine (very Hendrix-like), Stuffy (a high rythm Gospel tune), or Big Bone (already on the Lobotomys cd). Right in the middle you have a beautiful My heart wants to know...

This is a concept album, great for collectors, lovers of this type of music, and people who are interested in knowing more about one of the greatest drummers of the 20th Century (the booklet has lots of pictures and stories about J.P.). We all know things haven't been the same since he left. Not only for his band, Toto, but for music in general.

Finally, to complete the other reviewer's advice, check out an album called (Forever in the arms) of love, by a band called Karizma. It's hard to find but a ten star.

-----

I love to listen to jazz music especially when I'm on the road. I haven't heard much of David Garfield until I bought this CD. What pushed me to grab this CD is the appearance of Eddie Van Halen on this album. I his big fan to be honest. After his long absence in the music scene, he is back as a session guitar player on one of the tracks. Other songs on this album were laced with Steve Lukather's trademark Toto-ish licks. For music lovers who love jazz music, this is your value-for-the-money and you-get-your-money's-worth CD.

----

Best to you all and best of all to Jeff, wherever his spirit is--and I think that might in part be right here on the Blue.

Date: Tues, August 10, 2010, 05:22:32 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

Lurker Ray
Thanks for the link. Advance copy, you lucky man! After reading that review I look forward to Aug 17. even more. Brian W. is a genious, and so was the Gershwin Bros. - which is exactly what I like my favorite artists to be. That's why I'm here at the Blue.

Date: Mon, August 09, 2010, 22:18:35 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Jazzassin -

Here is the complete Brian
Wilson First Listen link:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2010/07/brian-wilson-gershwin-reimagines.html

Anyone else going to the
Levon Helm Ramble at the
Greek Theatre Sunday?

Date: Mon, August 09, 2010, 21:25:28 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

Jeff died from anaphylaxis, a condition caused by a severe allergic reaction (here to the insecticide) where mast cells trigger massive release of histamine, Anaphylaxis can cause a raised rash, severely restricted breathing due to bronchospasms, edema, swelling, circulatory shock, and constriction of coronary arteries.

The last potential event can cause, yes, a heart attack. Whether or not a cocaine habit made Jeff's heart attack fatal is not known, although possible. I don't know whether Jeff kept a pen or syringe of epinephrine nearby, which would have saved his life.

Crying Shane, truly.

Date: Mon, August 09, 2010, 15:07:34 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

@Lurker Ray
Your link to the LA Times blog review on Brian Wilson doesn't work for me, and I cant seem to find it via the embedded search engine at the main page either.
I'd love to read it. Could you check if the url is correct, eventually post a new, working link? Or could it be that this blog is unavailable in my region...? Sounds a bit far-fetched, but stranger things have been known to happen.

Date: Sun, August 08, 2010, 13:05:23 ET
Posted by: Attn, Strainer bashers

If you stir shit in the toilet, it just makes it stink more.

Date: Sun, August 08, 2010, 12:28:58 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

B.S.D:

Indeed!!

My point exactly - repeated ad nauseum to absolutely no effect whatsoever, as far as I can see.

Date: Sun, August 08, 2010, 12:24:08 ET
Posted by: B.S. Detector, detected

Bullgoose - You're right about my slip-up. I indeed meant parallel major/minor when I wrote "relative" major/minor. The two are altogether different (think C to A minor--same notes--versus C to C minor--flattened third, sixth and seventh). You're right about the inherent dangers in this field of work; you expose yourself to charges of hypocrisy. I might just say the point I was trying to make was not "don't come 'round here no more," but "a little humility will get you a long way."

Date: Sun, August 08, 2010, 08:26:32 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

BSD:

My problem has always been with the breath takingly arrogant tone of the posts - not the perfectly benign concept of a free to enter competition without a prize. LOL

Date: Sun, August 08, 2010, 06:03:03 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo

Howdy, BS Detector

I enjoyed the turn of your phrase lambasting, as you did, the Pimpernel Quizmaster, but it did put me in mind of a village lad pelting perfectly aimed tomatoes at a crippled old man in the stocks, and I was a little ashamed for watching.

While it is now apparent that Mr/Ms. Brainstrainer won't be lecturing at Julliard, trading fours with Wayne Shorter or dashing off some outre polychordal substitute changes for All The Things You Are this week, in the near future or perhaps ever, he/she has had a merry time and caused no harm. Sometimes that's a sign of a life well lived.


Personally, I'm reluctant to put too much stick about, just in case I get caught out myself a la politicians and TV evangelists. A quiet word in your ear, if I may: You mentioned in your critique that three notes in the minor scale were flattened compared to its relative major. The correct term would be 'tonic major', not relative major: the relative major would have identical notes to the minor scale but starting up a minor third.

Walter plays a surprising/ alarming/brave/ill-judged/ wrong?? note in his bass line to Do It Again. It's in the chorus. I wonder if anyone else has noticed it.

Date: Sun, August 08, 2010, 03:25:34 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer Detector, B.S. Detector

B.S.: The results are in and they are not good. Forget the fact that you went 0-for-2; what your answers really proved is that you are completely full of it: a poseur and a popinjay of the worst kind--one who claims expertise (by assuming the role of test-giver), but who in actuality cannot even grasp the rudiments of what he is speaking about. The outright hauteur with which you answered--sounding the part of the expert while completely winging it (and failing miserably)--is characteristic of the same arrogance with which you ask your strainers/hemorrhagers/exercises in futility. No wonder it rubs people the wrong way.

Now, to your point that one need not be "trained" to discuss these things: First, the questions asked require little training; all that is required is a basic familiarity with music. I can guarantee you that there is not a single session musician who does not know what a major key and minor key is. And, save for the most willfully ignorant punk rock retrogrades, virtually no practicing musician who would be unable to describe these differences either. You liken your role as testmaster to that of an observer of architecture. Let's use that analogy. What would you say about someone quizzing others about architecture who himself could not tell you the difference between gothic and postmodern styles? "I know what he see," he says, reveling in his ignorance as he doles out points to those credulous enough to answer his tests.

Where's the parallel to your complete ignorance of music theory? In explaining what you do, you write, "We make SONIC comparisons, without knowing what is actually going on." I have to ask, in my finest High Internet English dialect, WTF does this mean? The music you are listening to is composed of chord progressions, rhythmic patterns, the employment of different scales, licks, interplay between instruments, etc., etc., etc. It's perfectly fine that you do not possess the tools to discuss these things, but don't be so arrogant as to assume the role of inquisitor, judge, jury, and record-keeper about something which you know nothing about. You do realize that what your untrained ears hear can be explained by someone who is not speaking out of his ass, don't you? Can you understand why those of us who do may think that this "Brain Strainer" upstart is a bit ridiculous?

Now, to the questions: It's readily apparent that however bad your knowledge of basic music theory is, your ability to bullshit is far worse. "To wit:"

1. Sadly, phase change, period, amplitude, waveforms, and other phenomena employed in the torture machines of Abu Ghraib prison have nothing to do with major and minor keys. Put most simply, a song in a major key employs a major scale and resolves to a major chord (the I). A minor song in a minor key employs a minor scale and resolves to a minor chord (the i). It is actually the minor scale in which three of the notes are a half step lower than its relative major. Adjectives such as "shrill," "frantic" and "laid back" have nothing to do with a song being major or minor.

"I know what the difference is by hearing it, but it is hard to explain." Apparently you don't.

"I'll give two DF songs, "Morph the Cat", title track as being in a shrill, higher pitched MINOR key. And "What I Do" as being in a "laid back" (flattened) MAJOR key."

"Morph the Cat" is in the key of G major. "What I Do" is in the key of A minor. Completely wrong.

2. Again, not only did you get the question wrong, but you dug the whole infinitely deeper by trying to pretend you had a clue. The only real chord listed there was the first one (Cadd9/G)--which is basically the so-called mu major chord. (Add9 and add2 chords are for all intents and purposes, the same.) An add 16 chord does not exist (if you understood anything about playing music, you would know why).


So, Mr. Strainer: I want to give you a chance to answer for yourself. How can you assume the role of Steely Dan pattern-finder when you possess none of the tools necessary to find these patterns? Am I wrong when I call you out on the now free-for-all-to-see arrogance involved in this?

In a recent question you posed, you exposed an additional field of ignorance--that of the English language: “Beneath that layering and sophistry,” you drooled onto your keyboard about an instrumental passage from a Dan tune. I believe that you thought “sophistry” was a synonym for sophistication, but the magniloquent malapropism here is just too delicious. “Sophistry” means a false argument, usually one that has the appearance of being true. If yours possessed even an iota of verisimilitude, I am sure many fewer people would be put off by you.

Let me close by stressing that I do not want to insult, intimidate, or confer second-class citizenship upon those on the BlueBook who don't know music theory. This post is directed only towards Brain Strainer, and I suspect that a sizable amen corner may be singing amen. Brain Strainer, I would even welcome your input about musical similarity it were written in the spirit of discussion or inquiry--not as inquisition. No one likes a pretender, and pretenders always have a way of being the most pretentious, puffed up, peremptory windbags.

The floor is yours, Mr. Strainer. "Would you care to explain?"

Date: Sun, August 08, 2010, 01:45:02 ET
Posted by: angel, LA

Lurker Ray: I was just a a performance of Gershwin at the Bowl last week and a friend mentioned Brian's Gershwin project. Looking forward to it. :-)

Date: Sat, August 07, 2010, 23:31:12 ET
Posted by: Dorothy's Dog, Not in Kansas

For those who care: Former members of Toto and former members of Yes have teamed up to form Yoso. Some cool videos posted on their site. On tour now. For those who care.

Date: Sat, August 07, 2010, 16:23:45 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin

I've had a an advance copy of this
amazing project for about a week now
and it's been in steady rotation on
the veranda now ever since!

I think former Chicagoan Scotty Bennett
is once again the unsung hero of this
project and Brian has again found a
collaborator as wonderful and nurturing
as Van Dyke Parks & Tony Asher.

latimesblogs.latimes.com/.../brian-wilson-gershwin-reimagines.html

Date: Sat, August 07, 2010, 15:50:39 ET
Posted by: Shecky, What's that down there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb29sadP-kY

Great audio of Jim Hodder and Jeff Porcaro drumming together on tour in 1974

Date: Sat, August 07, 2010, 10:13:57 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, still on the beach

@Dean:
I've just listened to the samples, but as they are 2-3 minutes each they gave me a fairly good impression of the album, and then there is a videoclip at that same amazon page showing Brian and his band in the studio.
Can't wait to listen to it in it's entirety with "real" sound... I've already ordered the CD of course.

And I will of course check out Bill Charlap's Gershwin album as well. Sounds like something I could love - I'm listening to the samples right now. Thanks for the tip!

Date: Sat, August 07, 2010, 10:01:38 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

Jazzassin,

Thanks for the tip. When you say it sounds good to you, have you actually heard it yet (in its entirety)? Or have you just heard the Amazon samples?

Anyway I will definitely check this out. I listen to Bill Charlap's Gershwin album (The American Soul) all the time and it is fantastic, IMO.

http://www.amazon.com/Bill-Charlap-Plays-George-Gershwin/dp/B0009NCPEW

Date: Sat, August 07, 2010, 09:22:01 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, - a beach boy

Forgive me if this seems a bit non-Dangential, but I'd be surprised if it isn't good news to a lot of you that Mr. Brian Wilson releases his new album on august 17.
It's a Gershwin tribute album called "Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin", and Brian Wilson has even completed two of Gershwins unfinished originals!
It sounds incredible to my ears, and I always get very moved by seeing and hearing Brian Wilson in good condition, after all the years locked up in the hell of a disturbed mind. Does anybody get lucky twice? Wouldn't it be nice?
10 years ago, who'd have thought he'd be the remaining Beach Boy, still recording fantastic music? Wow!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002RWKSII/ref=pe_5090_16503220_snp_dp

Summer starts for real on August 17. Be there.

Date: Sat, August 07, 2010, 07:15:19 ET
Posted by: soityNeteNuro, The Bahamas

After returning well to Germany, we are still owing you an answer and feedback.

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Again thank you very much for everything and we hope to be back in Vietnam soon.

Date: Fri, August 06, 2010, 22:06:19 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

Toto Rocks, I don't know if that was directed at me, but bringing in Culture Club (YEECH!), LTD, Commodores and dance jams isn't going to help your case with me. That sounds absolutely un-listenable, IMO.

Of course, it could have been a prank post. I'd like to believe it was.

But whatever works for you is fine. Groove to your own beat. Me? I'll stick to bopping down a very, very different musical road.

Date: Fri, August 06, 2010, 21:55:46 ET
Posted by: J Prescott,

Is it any wonder Jeff went off, he was probably coked up and wigged out on the reporter. And I imagine he would need to be jacked up on something to be able to rip up on those African tom toms on Africa.

Date: Fri, August 06, 2010, 21:49:35 ET
Posted by: youre wrong, Toto rocks!!!!!!,

Georgy Porgy was the shit back in the day. Loved Cheryl Lynn's vocals.

And not well known is Waiting for Your Love, extended club mix which was sometimes mixed with some Commodores, Culture Club, LTD, Prince and other dance jams at college sock hops.

You got a short memory man, or you don't know the whole spectrum of Toto. You can't base it all on the overplayed Top 40 stuff.

Date: Fri, August 06, 2010, 20:19:56 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

So little time, so much to cover.

First of all, I know little of how JP died, but many people who can afford to have gardeners actually LIKE to do it themselves. Some of these people actually drive their own cars, too. I know that seems outrageous.

I loved the Toto article, particularly Jeffs railing on critics. I got quite the laugh from that. I don't necessarily totally agree with Jeff's position, but understand where he is coming from. Nonetheless it was stellar stuff, right there.

Now, what was it about Toto that I didn't like? I could play the safe card and simply say I'm really not a pop music kind of guy, or much of a rock music kind of guy. But that's a bit too simplistic and not really true as there are many rock bands that I like (or like some of their output).

I guess I really despised Toto's singles. Rosanna, Africa...this stuff simply does nothing for me. I HATED Journey once they became a Steve Perry pop band too, so maybe that helps you get the point. Maybe there were songs I haven't heard that I would like. That's a possibility. But those albums were played everywhere back then (radio, parties, etc) and I don't recall anything catching my attention in a good way. So, in a nutshell, they just aren't for me.

As for Toto or Marvin Gaye, I'll take Marvin, please. But Sexual Healing is a horrible Marvin Gaye song, IMO and both it and Africa are songs I turn off as soon as I hear two notes. But hey, that's me.

Date: Fri, August 06, 2010, 20:19:11 ET
Posted by: Denise, Hinktown

L Crane: I believe The Goodbye Look was inspired by one of Graham Greene's novels, but I cannot remember which one.

Date: Fri, August 06, 2010, 19:30:47 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, Ohio

SF Dan fan/ Was that a joke or are you serious? I will cede Whats goin on but Sexual healing? Only in San Fran ! To the rest of you guys/ youtube Andy Mckee for a great acoustic version of Africa. No offense SF/ Once again diff strokes for diff folks.

Date: Fri, August 06, 2010, 19:21:15 ET
Posted by: Katy Lied,

In what might have been an initial ruse to cover up the real cause of the death of Jeff Porcaro the pesticide story was floated to the mass media, or maybe since Jeff was using them and died so suddenly maybe that was the initial blame. But you would think that a man of Jeff's wealth could certainly have afforded a gardener to care for his plants.

Jeff was about 38 years old and when the shocking autopsy came out about a week or so later, as I remember, the cause of death was a massive heart attack attributed to the deplorable condition of his cardiovascular system for someone his age. The coroner concluded that this condition was probably due to the excessive use of cocaine, which had turned his veins into clay pipes, and no traces of pesticides but traces of coca were found.

You never know how drugs are going to affect you as an individual. Bee stings kill people. People like Keith Richards, might live to be as old as Methuselah.

Twas probably Cocaine Katy that did Jeff in.

Date: Fri, August 06, 2010, 19:09:25 ET
Posted by: SF Dan Fan, Out for the weekend

It's a travesty when Toto has the #1 song (Africa) at the same time Marvin Gaye's Sexual Healing is #3.

Toto was ok, but nowhere in marvin's league. Just goes to show differnet strokes for different folks.

Date: Fri, August 06, 2010, 18:09:13 ET
Posted by: book search, bs

This gives a good synopsis of Toto's commercial success and lack of critical acclaim.

http://tinyurl.com/39vcop2

Date: Fri, August 06, 2010, 17:43:16 ET
Posted by: hoops, on the quick

I have several Toto albums that I "totolly" enjoy!

Impeccable musicianship on a post-doctoral level, but with mostly 9th-grade level lyrics that could have been written by teenagers. If they had post-doc-level lyrics, they'd be Steely Dan ;-)

Date: Fri, August 06, 2010, 16:51:02 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, Ohio

Dean/ Prob the first time I have ever disagreed w/ you my friend' I thought Toto was a great band from the get go before I ever knew the Steely connection.Diff strokes for diff folks. Curious? why didnt you like them?

Date: Fri, August 06, 2010, 16:25:05 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Mr Crane,

My take on TGL is that it's about
a fictional "pair of lovers" in
Cuba right after the mob & the US
backed Batista was being overthrown
by Castro during the Cuban Revolution.

Our protagonist sees the "writing
on the wall" and knows that not only
is he going to "lose" the girl he also
knows that he is going to "lose" his
life if he doesn't get off the island.

"I know it was you Fredo.
You broke my heart.
You broke my heart!"

Date: Fri, August 06, 2010, 15:56:51 ET
Posted by: L Crane,

Does anyone know what the lyrics to "The Goodbye Look" are about?

Date: Fri, August 06, 2010, 08:32:18 ET
Posted by: Dan Historian, fact finding

It was widely reported that JP died from inhaling pesticides. But I've never read about any investigation, any specific chemicals named that were known to be dangerous, any statement by poison control, etc. By contrast, we know all about propofol after Michael Jackson's death. Not that Jeff had the celebrity of MJ, but I've never been able to find out any details beyond "pesticides."

Date: Thurs, August 05, 2010, 23:07:47 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Thanks for the heads-up on the new great piece by Donald!

So touching and sweet at times.
I wonder if some rag turned him
down on the piece. It's very extensive.
If so - their loss.

It's awesome and should be included in
any new printings of the "Nightfly"
liner notes.

Date: Thurs, August 05, 2010, 21:15:50 ET
Posted by: geo,

Doc- Very cool.

Here's nice piece on Jeff Pocaro from the Steely Dan fan magazine.

http://www.granatino.com/sdresource/20porcaro.htm

Date: Thurs, August 05, 2010, 20:27:57 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

Steelydoc,

Re: Jeff Porcaro

I recently picked up Les Dudek's "latest" album (from 2003, I think) Freestyle. I noticed Porcaro was the drummer on a couple of tunes (Jeff was the drummer on most of Les' earlier works). "Isn't he dead?" I thought. Then I discovered not only had he passed, but it 10+ years before the album was released.

Damn, Porcaro was a fantastic generalist, IMO. He could play everything well, which is why he worked with just about everyone. (Full disclosure, I could never stand Toto.) Carlock is very much like JP in that way.

Here's Jeff and Les playing with Boz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afBdFyE7PeE

And here's a nice relatively unknown tune with Les and Jeff P, from the late 70's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpoAuoEtkB8

Date: Thurs, August 05, 2010, 18:20:28 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower

wow, 18 years since Jeff Porcaro passed away on this date. I was driving from LA back east to see some NY R&S Revue shows, and was hoping Jeff was going to be the drummer...then I heard the sad news when I got home.

Date: Thurs, August 05, 2010, 17:45:44 ET
Posted by: Nicholas Urfe, Phraxos

From "Growing Up Sci-Fi" on DF's website, referring to his dad:

"Indeed, he'd secured a position as comptroller for the man who'd built the thing."

I'm sure this is old news to those more tuned in than I am, but it gave new spark to the already sparky DTMA: "I'm a bookkeeper's son..."

Date: Thurs, August 05, 2010, 15:43:45 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

The latest edition of th e Dandom Digest just went out in the past hour or so. It is dated July 1 -- August 5, 2010. The previous edition covered June 15-30, 2010.


You should have this Dandom Digest in the next 12 hours. As usual, if you don't, please email me. Some people have problems with delivery of the Dandom Digest, usually because of their spam filters, firewalls, etc.

Topics in the July 1 -- August 5, 2010 edition of the Dandom Digest include:

* Phil Lesh performs with Fagen & Helm
* Winwood Possible with SD Down Under
* NPR: "Michael Leonhart And The Avramina 7"
* BRAND NEW & RECENT at DF.com
* REDUX: Billboard: Dukes of September, Steely Dan of November (Down Under)
* REDUX: Press Release: Fagen, McDonald, Scaggs US Tour Dates Announcement


If you are not currently a subscriber but would like to receive the free Dandom Digest email newsletter -- definitely not to be confused or affilliated with the glorious (and much more glamorous) Official steelydan.com, walterbecker.com and donaldfagen.com newsletters/mail lists -- please email me or see http://dandom.com/dandomdigest

Thanks as always for your support, especially Mark, Bill and John, and of course, Pete & Shari.

Jim

Date: Thurs, August 05, 2010, 13:12:50 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Catching up here...a few indulgences on my part.

* Was listening to Chicago Public Radio this morning when they discussed a local 8mm film fest. They talked about how with 8mm movies, everyone has to huddle very close together close to the screen when watching because of the fuzziness. The huddling part put yet another detail into my take on "Sorry we only have 8" in "Everyone's Gone to the Movies." Such are fever dreams.

* Of course, the bulk of the Dukes of September dates are in September, inspiring the moniker. But it clicked for me recently that all three players are arguably in the September of their lives as performers and artists. (Maybe this has been brought up.) Again, such are fever dreams.

* Would be interesting if Steve Winwood joins SD for any tracks on the yet-to-be-official SD tour down under. I know we all love him for his work with Traffic and Blind Faith, but, for me personally, the synth sounds of 1980's "Arc of a Diver" album will be forever in the same pop chart chapter as "The Nightfly". They bring me back to the same period.

Thanks.

Jim

Date: Thurs, August 05, 2010, 11:56:28 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower

Geo:

are you asking me? I;m going to the DOS show at the Borgata...

Date: Thurs, August 05, 2010, 11:49:05 ET
Posted by: BG, WA

We have the DOS tour (featuring Mac), and potential WIN tour in November. Bring your bug repellent.

Date: Thurs, August 05, 2010, 08:13:06 ET
Posted by: geo,

Doc- Since Keith Carlock isn't playing on the DOS tour, are you planning on seeing any shows?

Date: Thurs, August 05, 2010, 04:15:03 ET
Posted by: AUSSIE, No Australia?

Here's a new interview with Winwood.
http://www.wmmr.com/music/news/story.aspx?ID=1257365

Steve says: "And then it looks like I may be going to tour with Steely Dan in Australia -- so that will take me pretty much till the end of the year." 7/27/2010

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 20:53:00 ET
Posted by: Michael, to Jazzassin

Thanks. Althoguh Aja II won't be coming, sadly, I'll do my best.

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 16:45:50 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

So, Irving Azoff is on Twitter -- wonder if we'll get any Steely Dan tidbits there?

http://twitter.com/irvingazoff

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 12:15:03 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

Michael,
isn't it sad how some things develop according to a "one step forward, two steps back" template? The lack of access to basic controls for the flawed sound facility on your new motherf***ingboard is almost absurd, and so unnecessary, so stingy and so not cool, it's really remarkable.
Thanks for the warning.
Good luck with the project of overcoming the shitty and not very artistic tech problems, though! Im sure you are perfectly able to solve them over time, and get back to the more noble challenge of writing the new f***ing Aja.

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 11:34:35 ET
Posted by: Michael, at Jazzassin & Al Ternative

Jazzassin, actually, I didn't have an external sound card because I cannot afford any of the high-tech sound cards (and, realistically, wouldn't have much use nor benefit from them). The REAL professional grade sound cards run well over $1,000+ each. Now let's be real about something: I use my PC not as a "professional home studio" but rather a robust do-it-yourself recording environment. It's not like I'm recording the next Aja or anything. (Heh, wouldn't that be nice?) I don't think I know much more about the technical function of a PC than your average user who's been around for any number of years and does audio recording from the comfort of their home, but just enough (now) that I can make a more informed decision when purchasing a new PC that will do what I need it to do.

I didn't get tricked, except for the false allure of the HD audio, thereby purchasing a new PC with lackluster audio capabilities. You see, I assumed that, if anything, newer PCs by default had better audio capabilities than previously available, but was sadly mistaken.

As for VSTs vs rack-mounted units, of course the latter is better but only after a certain price-point. Naturally a $1,200 preamp is going to do more than your standard VST (it had better) because that's what it's built to do. It's usually best when you've got a direct analog input w/ analog control, not to mention the lack of added noise which comes when you perform an operation in a destructive environment on a DAW... Why do you think professional studios still use analog mixers and such? Nevertheless, for the budget-minded individual who is skilled in digital control, if you're smart and have the right tools (and know when to use them and when NOT to use them), you can get a close approximation to a professional calibur recording as can be had without all the hassle nor the downtime which results when some piece of machinery goes AWOL on you and you're left twiddling your thumbs.

I believe that the lack of functionality stems from the frivulous attempts by the music industry to curb audio file sharing and/or derail the ever-growing indy scene of musicians who work from home and produce their own music as this puts an unnecessary strain upon them.

From my end there's no need for an ASUS mobo, just one which does the required task, i.e. record audio into DAW, edit, mix and master. The first element -- record -- is where they really dropped the ball with the new PC architecture. What shit is that when I cannot even access the freaking recording controls!? Why make this such a strain on the end user? I can think of no other rational explanation than what I said above. Of course I know the limitations of USB. Have you ever tried to transfer data between your HD and a USB stick? It's crap.

Finally, to Al Ternative, yes, a professional studio can't be beat, but every hour is going to put a bigger hole in your wallet, so you have to be sure of what you're doing. One final note: with your material, KEEP YOUR MASTERS. I think everybody around here is more than familiar with the incidents involving Steely Dan what with songs just mysteriously 'disappearing' from the studio vaults.

Thata's about all there is to say on the subject. Thanks.

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 10:48:00 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

Al T.
You're right. But it's nice to have a home studio for spontaneous try-outs of ideas that might occur after midnight, too...
Maybe the solution would be to decrease one's demands of this home studio, and use it for whatever it's worth until the musical ideas are mature enough to be taken one step further to a better studio for further developement and recording?
Then again, pros are often expencive, and you'd want to do as much of the time consuming work as possible before you go there. And we're back were we started, wanting the pc based solution to be as strong as possible.
Anyway, this subject is too far from being Dangential to be continued here I guess, and my knowledge is too limited to be of much more help anyway, I'm afraid.

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 10:22:20 ET
Posted by: Al Ternative, on the street

Forget the PC - you could hire a recording engineer once you know what you're doing, and have him record you. A little research and beating the bushes and you find a reliable one.

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 09:47:54 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, to Michael

I understand that you're well informed and experienced with recording technology, probably more than me.
It seems that at least one of us has misunderstood something, or maybe it's just me expressing myself incorrect: I totally agree to your description of modern pc's lack of decent sound processing capabilities. As I said, they're built for gaming... The graphics card alone now often posesses more computing power than any pc had a few years ago. But they don't handle audio/sound processing very well - integrated hi def audio IS a joke.
Do I understand right when I get the impression that you do have an external sound card as well, but your new pc won't let you take advantage of it? Or did you actually get tricked by the seductive words of a smooth talking smartass salesman telling you that no extra hardware would be necessary if you bought this wonderbox?
Generally, dedicated hardware is the thing when it comes to professional recording results. I guess your familiar with Steinbergs software? With all the awesome VST-plugins you can use with Wavelab for mastering purposes, why do you think no professional mastering studios uses them? Because tons of rack mounted hardware devices is still better.
Actually, pc's aren't REALLY good at many things at all! They pretend to be useful for a hole lot of things, but it's compromise after compromise to get this multifunctionality to work in a user friendly way that can be enjoyed by a large number of people, and in most cases we find that for professional uses that's not good enough.
The trend is to put as many possible functions into new pc's as possible, but none of these are professional level functionality. The fact that sound processing have got a low priority on most new pc's is irritating, but reflects the mass market's needs rather than the music industry's needs, as this industry has always been dependant of custom built systems anyway.
But it is tragic that they actually built pc's with better sound capabilities some years ago than they do now! And you're right - XP was the last Windows version that gave you as a user full control over all the variables that you will need to control as a music producer, but unfortunately it doesn't take much advantage of the multicore CPU of your new machine. The trend with lots of user friendly limited functionality is a result of Microsoft's attempt to steal back some of the market from Apple, I guess, and of the way most people uses and think of their pc's. The average user would say that his/her new pc has got absolutely "fantastic sound", and they will never miss the things you miss the most, say even have the slightest idea what you're talking about.
Have you thought about getting a new ASUS mobo? They have something you can use, I'd guess, which goes together with Win7 without limiting your use of external devices, or having to virtualize XP under W7.
And last (you know this, I guess...): USB is ok for data i general, and midi controlling, but never trust it to be a transfering standard for real time digital representations of sound as such, as USB has some limitations in that area, too.

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 07:12:26 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!

Excited about my second point. This last one wasn't even a matter of going through Old Testament songs...I've heard Do It Again and the outro to Deacon Blues so many times. I'd say for this last Brain Strainer, it wasn't like WB and DF intended to through in a little Do It Again, but as a listener, it's fun to hear a similar groove. Just as any time they used an add2 chord doesn't mean they're trying to reference Any Major Dude....

...SPEAKING of add2 chords. It is apparent BS doesn't know much about music theory but I personally don't think that really matters. BS's questions draw largely from a purely aural experience, and are obviously extremely subjective at times.

Can I take a stab at it?

1. To put it bluntly, songs in a major key sound "happy." Songs in a minor key sound "sad." Major - My Old School. Minor - Do It Again (Again)

2. Which of these chords would you likely hear in a Steely Dan song? Why? Why would you not hear the others?
a. Cadd9/G - "Winner, winner...chicken dinner." This is basically the mu major, the add2, the add9. The song list goes on and on: Deacon Blues, Parker's Band, Dr. Wu...

b. F#add16/F - add16 would be a B, in my head this is making it an F#sus4, definitely a common chord quality in SD songs. HOWEVER, adding in the F in the bass throws this into some ugly territory. I can't explain it well but within that chord you'd have an F, F#, B, C#..."does not compute."

c. D3(flat6) - D3 is a power chord, but inverted with the third (F#) instead of the fifth (A) on the D string. You get power chords in SOME SD songs like the bluesy vamp in FM during the verse, but in that case it's a D5, not a D3. As for the flat6 (Bb)....it would seem to imply some sort of augmented chord, since that would be the same as a sharp5 (A#). I don't think augmented chords are too common in SD songs.

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 07:08:15 ET
Posted by: Michael, to Jazzassin

I agree with most of your points. However, where I disagree is with the PC's purported functionality in regards to audio recording. My 5-year old HP had various audio inputs built into the mobo, and with the right DAW, allowed for up to 32-bit recording. As well, there were various USB ports which could be used for attaching things like a keyboard to use as a MIDI controller (with ASIO support, as you made mention of). Most 'casual' audio cards (e.g. in the price range of $100-500) don't record with higher audio fidelity or clarity -- that's the mobo's responsibility in conjunction with whichever DAW you're using and what, if any, plug-ins/audio codecs are compatible, even if they do support 1/8" jacks or whatever.

That is why the current trend in PC builds is so noticeably lackluster. A lot of them are just built for raw processing power and the audio functionality feels like an afterthought, even though they're supposed to outperform earlier builds. That's why getting a custom build is a smart idea in today's market.

Of course the right mic/preamp is an essential ingredient, at least for organic songwriting purposes. But having a mobo + DAW to put all the pieces together in the right way is just as important. I'd rather have an older model PC with complete functionality than a souped-up one with all the power in the world but with lousy audio support. That's why I say "integrated high definition audio" is a joke.

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 07:03:19 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo

Hey Steelydoc
Thanks for the correction. You can see how much Mitch Miller, the maladroit mogul of mainstream, has messed with my mind. Nat King notwithstanding, that song was a clear cut stinker sucking to the greatest extent that things that suck do.

Right back at you, Mr Hutch; we survived terrible things during the Baby Boom, and perhaps that's why we like the Dan. Then again, Sheena, Queen of the Jungle was a definite plus.

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 07:01:44 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

Strainer - That was absolutely pathetic.

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 06:11:16 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

BSD:

They most certainly are!! LOL

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 04:39:17 ET
Posted by: just say you don't know,

Strainer, you should have just said you can't answer the questions rather than fake it. The questions were silly in the first place, but if you really don't know anything about basic music theory there is no point in trying to reason it out.

I always thought the Strainers were semi-interesting only because I could never understand what you were hearing since it's so different than what I hear. Now that mystery is resolved, and the interest is gone.

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 02:36:38 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer Detector, B.S. Detector

I don't have the time or, frankly, the sanguinary impulse to respond to Brain Strainer's dictum tonight. Read for yourself and then discover that the founding fathers were right: some truths are self-evident.

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 00:27:41 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,

Now, on a separate note, I should address some of the concerns of the Anonymous "Brain Strainer Detector"--even though the "Detector" appears to be coming forth in a mean spirited manner he might be authentic because some of what he brings up could fuel some MAJOR discussion. That, and of course, he is obviously a follower of Strainer/Hemorrhager. Or maybe a past winner or participant???

To wit, The Detector:

"Seeing as Brain Strainer has appointed himself the Steely Dan forensic musicologist-in-chief,"

I never appointed myself to be anything, but an OBSERVER and maybe good listener of music who finds the patterns and similarities interesting in Dan and Don songs, as do others on this board. I find that many of the people who participate come out with knowledge or detection of patterns/derivations that I had not even considered when formulating the questions, and I think some cool things have been discovered about Steely music and how (maybe) it came to be.

"I figure it's fair to pose to him a few very elementary questions about music. The kind of stuff you'd need to know to discuss derivations, derivatives, and degradation--B.S.'s field of expertise"

Well, I don't think it is fair because I have said on several occasions that I am not trained in music theory, and apparently some of the successful MAJOR artists and session players in modern music are not trained either, some of which was discussed recently at length on this board. So I have to disagree that you'd "need to know" the theory or read music to discuss derivations and such because you can HEAR them, even though you cannot determine what they are composed of. Same as if you look at a painting or work of architecture--you don't really need to know the materials, or static forces at work in the structure to discuss its aesthetic qualities or draw comparisons. We make SONIC comparisons, without knowing what is actually going on. It would be great if persons such as yourself would jump in and ADD to the discussion because it would be VERY interesting to know WTF is actually underlying the sound from a theoretical standpoint.

"1. What is the difference between a song in a major key and a song in a minor key? Name one Steely Dan song in a major key, and one in a minor key."

I know what the difference is by hearing it, but it is hard to explain. The definitions say that with a MINOR key it is something along the lines of a "half step" up in pitch in the notes of a scale, which gives a more frantic effect. To me, it represents a slight phase change in the sound wave without changing the period or amplitude. I sometimes have dealt in the ACTUAL physical things in electronics and mechanics that are going on dynamically in waveforms like modulation, clipping, signal to noise, decibels etc, but have no clue as to their manifestation in musical notation.

I'll give two DF songs, "Morph the Cat", title track as being in a shrill, higher pitched MINOR key. And "What I Do" as being in a "laid back" (flattened) MAJOR key.

"2. Which of these chords would you likely hear in a Steely Dan song? Why? Why would you not hear the others?
a. Cadd9/G
b. F#add16/F
c. D3(flat6)"

I have in the past read about the "Mu Chord", or "Mu Major", used in many Dan songs, which is a triad, but add 2. Which is WHY you would hear it. So I would suppose that you could add a 16 as a common multiple of 2, so I will say "b." which appears to add 16 to an "F" triad. The other two, "a and c", might not be possible combinations for chords, so that might be why we wouldn't hear them on ANY song, let alone a Steely Dan song.

Other than that, I'd say you'd have to "Check out Guitar George, he knows all the chords." as Mark Knopfler, a key contributor on "Time Out of Mind" once said.

Anyhow, if you have this type of knowledge, I for one would be interested in your attempting to explain WHAT we are hearing being derived FROM and re-used on these Dan songs, which is VERY real, and you would be hard pressed to say otherwise. The only one who has stepped up in the past has been Doc Mu, who was able to analyze a few of these observations/derivations on his keyboard to explain what we were hearing was the same sequence of notes/chords, but with a key change etc.

Date: Wed, August 04, 2010, 00:10:07 ET
Posted by: µ,

ygk: bouncing like a rubber ball and running out of perMUtations

Date: Tues, August 03, 2010, 23:04:39 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

DOS 1.0 - "The trio will be backed by a band of world class musicians: Jon Herington on guitar; Freddie Washington on bass; Michael White on drums; Jim Beard on keyboards; back-up singers Carolyn Escoffery and Catherine Russell; and horn players Michael Leonhart, Walt Weiskopf, and Jay Collins."

BG - Your Granny was a tastemaker & ahead of her time. Now in the States in bandshells all across America in the summer, they haul out
SOM and they all follow the bouncing ball and "sing-a-long" without Mitch. People dress up in costume and even surviving stars of the movie and members of the von Trapp family show up.

Date: Tues, August 03, 2010, 22:45:55 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,

The latest Strainer was:

( We're going to dial back on the Difficulty Level a bit (ratcheted down to about a 3 out of 10) for the subject of tonite's Strainer which deals with two Old Testament tunes. This is an opportunity for those with lower point totals to pad their base (bass?), if you will. Or to just get on the board.

"Deacon Blues" is tune loved by many, even outside of the realm of Dandom. It is a popular tune for "Muzak" applications, the sort of which it is believed are being sought out by the poster "Security Joan". "Deacon" has almost a mystical, ethereal mood, sometimes even romantic with its tenor sax work, and "layering" especially in its outro. Beneath that layering and sophistry and somewhat obscured on that outro is a backbeat that predominates on an earlier Old Testament tune.

Name that tune.)

"Deacon Blues", a song believed to be executed in a MAJOR key, was a MAJOR hit for the Dan, rising to Number 19 on the MAJOR Hot 100 Billboard Chart, as well as receiving MAJOR airplay far in excess of a song of that chart position, in general.

If one listens carefully to Deacon's outro, a familiar backbeat can be heard below the horns, sax, etc. and it is that which can be found predominating on an earlier Old Testament tune "Do It Again" which put Steely Dan on the pop music scene back in 1973 in a MAJOR way. "Cerpin Taxt" of NYC was first, right out of the box with the correct answer and picks up his SECOND Strainer point. Cerpin has gotten two of the last three questions and now appears to be on a MAJOR roll.

Date: Tues, August 03, 2010, 20:51:02 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

Bullgoose - Great post mate. Funny as hell. I remember those days.. guess I was about ten... with Mom watching Lawrence Welk and Mitch Miller. The lyrics scrolled along the bottom of the screen with a little bouncing ball that showed the emphasis on the words. It really was spooky watching him looking at you through the tv and directing with a baton.
Yeah, the goatee. Like an early sixties fake beatnik. Crazy.

I'm trying to find the article that named the band members for the Dukes shows. I can't remember if there'll be three or four horn players.

Date: Tues, August 03, 2010, 19:27:12 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,

Got lots to cover--especially for the music theory questions that were asked by the anon which I have tried to cram for. But i gotta see a Joker and I'll be right back.

Stay tuned--I Got The News @11.

Date: Tues, August 03, 2010, 19:07:58 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the tower

"Lazy Hazy Crazy Days of Summer" was sung by Nat King Cole...

Date: Tues, August 03, 2010, 18:31:45 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo

Skating on the fractured rim of Poor Taste as I may be, I feel the need to sit Mitch, The Charmer, Miller in his proper place in history.
My dealings with him were all on the electromagnetic spectrum and at a considerable distance. It must also be said that I was young at the time: I was probably zero and a half when he first came to my attention. The filmed farce that was Sing Along With Mitch infected our TV with a brand of prototypical Easy Listening that set my infant hair on end. As for the goatee, it frightened and fascinated me;it was thirty years before I could bring myself to grow one.
The man was as hip as a walking frame. In the school yard a common taunt was, 'sting along with Itch!' My grandmother was fond of him, but fortunately The Sound of Music arrived. Julie Andrews supplanted Mitch in her affections. I was taken to see the film approximately thirty seven times. This apparently cleansed my psyche, and I no longer had nightmares about clarinets.
I do remember the egregious offence against Taste and Decency that was 'Those Lazy, Hazy, Crazy Days of Summer'. Sung by The Mitchster it featured puzzling references to 'soda', 'pretzels', (can you see the SD connection?) and, less puzzling, beer. I think saeurkraut and weenies were also mentioned. To an Aussie boy these words meant nothing; Mitch and his singalong sidekicks might well have been feeling up hamsters and eating weasels.

That Mitch and Walter did not get along comes as no surprise to me. I feel proud that I did not like him from the get go. For the record, I had a similar instant infant aversion to Churchill, Billy Graham and J. Edgar Hoover.
I feel a lot better, now that's off my chest.

Date: Tues, August 03, 2010, 13:42:45 ET
Posted by: Meyer Blechtnavin, Right here for cryin out loud!

Bassicinstinct - funny!

BSD - atta boy!

Date: Tues, August 03, 2010, 13:03:45 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

Hasn't it gone quiet?

You can almost imagine the tumbleweed skittering along the deserted sidewalks. LOL

Date: Tues, August 03, 2010, 12:32:57 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

BSD, I like you. Will be interesting to BS's response ...

Date: Tues, August 03, 2010, 11:12:56 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

Michael:
For music recording purposes you should build the pc from scratch, and not rely on so called High-End pc's or whatever. If building is not an option, then don't even think of using the realtek integrated thing for music production. It will never give you anything but frustration and latency problems anyway. You MUST have a separate, preferably external sound card.
Most new pc's with great specs are designed for gaming, not music production, which demands a totally different approach to the architecture.
So, get an external soundcard with lots of connections; Balanced XLR inputs, phono, standard instrument jack, optical, midi... Get the right ASIO drivers, and if you mean business: Get yourself a mic preamp. And of course, most important of all is high quality mics.
Way to go!

Date: Tues, August 03, 2010, 04:24:55 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

BSD:

Don't hold your breath!! ;-) LOL

Date: Tues, August 03, 2010, 00:52:05 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!

Brain Strainer:

Do It Again.

Date: Mon, August 02, 2010, 23:26:31 ET
Posted by: ?, ?

Of Mitch Miller and Queen...
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2517

Date: Mon, August 02, 2010, 21:36:04 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer Detector, B.S. Detector

Seeing as Brain Strainer has appointed himself the Steely Dan forensic musicologist-in-chief, I figure it's fair to pose to him a few very elementary questions about music. The kind of stuff you'd need to know to discuss derivations, derivatives, and degradation--B.S.'s field of expertise:

1. What is the difference between a song in a major key and a song in a minor key? Name one Steely Dan song in a major key, and one in a minor key.

2. Which of these chords would you likely hear in a Steely Dan song? Why? Why would you not hear the others?
a. Cadd9/G
b. F#add16/F
c. D3(flat6)


No helping!

Date: Mon, August 02, 2010, 21:15:40 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer, 460 km Nord du Rhinebeck

We're going to dial back on the Difficulty Level a bit (ratcheted down to about a 3 out of 10) for the subject of tonite's Strainer which deals with two Old Testament tunes. This is an opportunity for those with lower point totals to pad their base (bass?), if you will. Or to just get on the board.

"Deacon Blues" is tune loved by many, even outside of the realm of Dandom. It is a popular tune for "Muzak" applications, the sort of which it is believed are being sought out by the poster "Security Joan". "Deacon" has almost a mystical, ethereal mood, sometimes even romantic with its tenor sax work, and "layering" especially in its outro. Beneath that layering and sophistry and somewhat obscured on that outro is a backbeat that predominates on an earlier Old Testament tune.

Name that tune.

Date: Mon, August 02, 2010, 19:56:18 ET
Posted by: Dave, NJ

Last year I spotted a sign for the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome just outside of Barrytown NY. My SD detector went off because Android Warehouse makes mention of an aerodrome. Wikipedia informed me that the term 'aerodrome' has been obsolete since WWII, but mentioned Rhinebeck as one of the places still using the name. It's been there for 50 years, so it was around when D & W went to Bard. I took a ride up there Saturday to check it out and see if Android Warehouse might be about this place. I paid $65 for a biplane ride, and was handed a pair of goggles for the flight. Although the FAA had declared the area a no fly zone because of the nearby Clinton wedding, the aerodrome was still allowed to operate. I was flown over Barrytown, with Bard visible to the north. It was breathtaking. After touching down, I took off my goggles and found I was alive.

I then stayed for the air show with mock WWI dog fights (another fraud?)

So there's my hands on research report. Who wants to try Yellow Peril?

Date: Mon, August 02, 2010, 18:50:43 ET
Posted by: update, flying on virgin air using free wifi

update

Neighbors/Everybody needs good neighbors/Full of love and understanding...

Tell that to Mitch Miller, famous for his sing-alongs and one of the world's best-selling recording artists in the 1950s, who does not think much of contemporary music. "Most of it is very bad. This guy from Steely Dan -- Walter Becker? He lives in my apartment building in New York. He plays the same licks all night long. I feel like calling the cops on him. To get into rock, you on't have to be a very good musician."

Date: Mon, August 02, 2010, 18:25:55 ET
Posted by: west of duluth, mitch miller is dead

Mitch Miller dead today

tangentially Dan

he was Walter's neighbor at one time I believe and he once described the sounds coming from wb's apt as NOISE

Date: Mon, August 02, 2010, 13:56:54 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc

Mu: drop me a line here, as I don't have yours handy...

ygk

Date: Sun, August 01, 2010, 23:31:32 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

ygk: Could be exciting. e-me. I've been absolutely swamped.

Date: Sun, August 01, 2010, 13:17:48 ET
Posted by: Info,

In a huge controversey, The Eagles and Barbara Steusand were the first to have $50+ tickets and in fact they went to $100+ tickets. SD had pretty average ticket prices until the mid-2000s.

Date: Sun, August 01, 2010, 10:21:01 ET
Posted by: Road, Hazard

SS, I'm pretty sure that comment was not there yet when I posted the link, so thanks for pointing it out. Funny how Steely Dan pops up even when I'm not really looking for him!

And the commenter was "FIZZ" as in "...never gonna do it without the FIZZ on."

Wonder if there's any actual truth to the statement that SD was the first to go $50+ for tickets in the 90s. Must be, I guess... I read it on the internet... The internet would never lie to me!

Date: Sun, August 01, 2010, 09:38:41 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

Got my tickets for the Dukes show at Innsbrook on Aug. 29th. I think this one might sell out. Looking forward to seeing some Dan friends there.

Heart will be at that same venue on Aug. 11th. Saw them a few years ago for the first time live and was absolutely blown away.

This video is from the Women of Rock festival a few years ago.
Wynona Judd and Sheryl Crowe singing the first verse with Ann just chillin' in the background. When she struts up to the mic for the next verse I'm afraid those other ladies are just blown out of the water. What an incredible voice!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eivnbf0vbTo

Date: Sun, August 01, 2010, 07:11:15 ET
Posted by: Anon, NY

More specifically, we have Irving Azoff to thank. Sometimes I have wtf thoughts in my sleep, and recently had one about paying $170 for one of the Beacon shows last summer.

Date: Sun, August 01, 2010, 05:45:25 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Road Hazard, I followed that link and read blog entry.

Then I went down into the reader comments and found this:

'As for ticket prices overall, we have Steely Dan to thank. When they first reunited in the ¡¦90¡¦s, they were the first artist to be charging over $50 for tickets, because they (or their management) felt they could, that there was enough of a demand for it. And then everybody started doing it, because THEY could get away with it too. And then you had TicketMaster adding on ridiculous surcharges, then Live Nation comes along and owns most of the market and the major artists and effectively blackballs promoters who don¡¦t work with Live Nation. Then you have record companies, who aren¡¦t making as much money selling records, so they grab a slice of the touring and merchandising revenue, which traditionally was where the artists made their money (not off record sales), and prices get driven up even higher, to where it¡¦s $30 at least for a damn T-shirt. Basically, the machine has gotten so big, it¡¦s eating itself.'

Date: Sat, July 31, 2010, 12:25:44 ET
Posted by: Road, Hazard

Speaking of the Dukes of Hazzard in relation to music, here's some discussion and links to info re Live Nation's troubles and the whole concert/ticket situation with some distinction drawn between pop/rock vs. country...

http://www.the9513.com/your-take-concert-crunch/

“There’s not a single country artist out there that’s not doing well,” said Clarence Spalding, manager for up-and-comer Jason Aldean and for Brooks & Dunn, currently performing their farewell Last Rodeo tour after 18 years in the business.

“A lot of acts out there from the pop and rock side are getting the crap beat out of them, and a lot of it’s about the high ticket prices,” Spalding said. “I don’t think you should look at it like we’re not making money from the record business so, in turn, you need to jack up ticket prices. If that’s your strategy, it’s not a great strategy, and it’s going to turn away fans.”

...just pointing it out as an FYI. Take it for what it's worth.

Date: Sat, July 31, 2010, 01:11:30 ET
Posted by: Lurker,

It's funny, but twice now, I've referred to the Dukes of September tour as the Dukes of Hazard tour. Clearly a big difference! :-) Funny how my works. Hope it gives you a laugh.

Thank you to all who post...I'm timid about posting but appreciate all you people write.

Date: Sat, July 31, 2010, 01:01:50 ET
Posted by: Newark, Eastern Sho'

Been a while . . . Yep, got grrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaat
tix at Borgata for Dukes. Look it. Great posts here. Gimme a week to read. nwk

Date: Fri, July 30, 2010, 20:38:05 ET
Posted by: Security Joan, Philly

P.s. I'm still trying to figure out how a data-driven art project w/o money exchanged could = a pyramid scheme! I may just be naive, but if someone could elucidate me I'd appreciate it! That said, it's why I love this community -- everyone's on their super-sharp toes.

Date: Fri, July 30, 2010, 20:30:30 ET
Posted by: Security Joan, Philly

Re: DanTrack trepidation. I had no idea people would have nervousness or suspicions about this!! The reason registration is required on ici (BTW there is a strict privacy policy and absolutely NO information is shared, sold, or even used for mailings from us) is simply to a) provide some level of legitimacy to the posts (it might look stupid if it all came from one person) and b) to enable people to comment back / post / rate (one must register for this). This is par for the course for most interactive blogs etc.

THAT SAID, being that my primary interest is in collecting songs, dates, times, places, and if appropriate, commentary on when people hear Dan music piped into public retail spaces, I've decided to offer this option: If you prefer not to register on the ici web site, but have a "DanTrack audible sighting" to report, please e-mail it to me at dantrackATyestheresgasinthecar.com and I'll manually plug into the ici database. Info to email me would be: song; date; time; location and address; (optional) any amusing notes that make the entry more interesting.

A second option, if you are a Twitterer, is to post the info as a Tweet w. the hashtag "DanTrack" (i.e. #dantrack)... I'll search for these & pick them up.

Does that sound cool to people? BTW, thanks Gail & Fife for your endorsements of me as a real live person. This is simply the obsession of a creative eccentric artist. After collecting a body of data, there will be an ultra- cool map of songs, places, times, including a ranking of which Dan songs appear most frequently in certain places (e.g. drug stores?) .... It may become a gallery show eventually, or just an interesting web site.
Thanks guys!!

p.s. Also, if you have an Android or iPhone, the ici app is free, and you can see how DanTrack appears there (so far it's just Philly entries!!!) You will see that it is truly a harmless arts & culture app!

Date: Fri, July 30, 2010, 15:10:05 ET
Posted by: shecky, what's that down there?

Great drum solo from 1974

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb29sadP-kY

R.I.P. Jim Hodder and Jeff Porcaro

Date: Fri, July 30, 2010, 07:27:08 ET
Posted by: Michael, buyer beware!

Here's something worth mentioning to any audiophiles who use their PCs as an audio hub for recording purposes. Apparently, some motherboard manufacturers are integrating flawed soundchips into their PC architecture. I say "flawed" because, in conjunction with Microsoft and, apparently, Realtek (perhaps others as well...), they intentionally make it so you can no longer manually select a source e.g. line-in, microphone, etc, in 'Recording Controls'. Instead, the volume knobs are all greyed out so that you no longer can control them. This becomes apparent when you try to use an older OS such as Windows XP (which a lot of people do in order to maintain compatibility with their DAWs). Even if you download other drivers and/or try to use Realtek's audio configuration, it makes no difference because of the way the motherboard's BIOS is configured in conjunction with the flawed audio chip.

So what is this "flawed audio chip" I'm referring to? Here are your warning signs (look in the specs):
Integrated Realtek Audio (anything in the ALC888 series)
Integrated High Definition Audio

How do I know? I recently bought a "high-end" PC only to find out the hard way what a downgrade it really is. Anybody who wants to can do some research online about this ongoing problem. Even if you try to run XP in a Virtual PC environment through Windows 7, it uses the 'Sound Blaster 16' as the default audio device and audio playback and recording is BROKEN. Say goodbye to 24/32-bit recording. Way to go Microsoft/Realtek! They managed to make newer PCs with LESS functionality than earlier models. Believe me, I've tried EVERYTHING to restore fuctionality to the 'Recording Controls' but absolutely nothing fixes it. That's the way it's built.

So, yeah, if you're going to be in the hunt for a new PC model, do some research on it. I found out the hard way.

Date: Thurs, July 29, 2010, 15:01:57 ET
Posted by: Casual Fan, Orlando

Going to see Crowded House tomorrow night here in Otown. Supposed to be some fine musucianship notwithstanding some of their kind of whiney popular tunes of yesteryear. I see that David Byrne was surprise guest with them a week ago in NY, NY. That would be sweet.

Date: Thurs, July 29, 2010, 09:23:14 ET
Posted by: oops, wrong

iPod = iPhone

Date: Thurs, July 29, 2010, 09:22:23 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc

re: Herington - saw him use is iPod during a "Jon Herington Band" gig at the old Tower Records back in March...used it like a drone tone before the band kicked in... fun stuff!

ygk

Date: Thurs, July 29, 2010, 07:29:02 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

Spotted:

What a GREAT piece of kit is that??!!

Date: Thurs, July 29, 2010, 06:53:21 ET
Posted by: Spotted:, Jon Herington playing ... the iPhone

Or rather amplifying it up on this video using the AmpliTube iRig:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4D2IVZlwz0

Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 13:51:19 ET
Posted by: Nicky, USA

<a href=pills-ed.com>ED Pills</a> is a late times extra-strength recipe nostrum that is enchanted orally to save the treatment of erectile dysfunction.

Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 12:47:06 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

Mr Bernard Purdie et al:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxSBlLyYZiU

Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 12:17:27 ET
Posted by: Eddie Hoh,

Bill Arnes - thanks for that (and it's in 9, no less)...sublime. Was just listening to it this week (odd that there's a tamborine in there, huh?).

You're absolutely correct, every technically competent drummer working today owes a debt of gratitude to BC. I have to laugh at posters here justifying Carlock's abilities by saying he's a great pocket drummer. Listen to Cobham as early as the Dreams albums if you want to hear a pocket (not to mention his solo just before "New York"...a taste of what would follow in MO and a lead-in that out-Purdie's Bernard).

The MO, more than any other band, shaped what we listen to today and how we listen to it...in terms of the instrumental component of contemporary music. Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to listen closely to "Inner Mounting Flame" and "Birds of Fire" to understand this point...I'd also include BC's "Spectrum" album which was in the same vein but more accessible.

Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 11:14:04 ET
Posted by: Bill Arnes,

Just when we here on the Blue get excited about Keith C., etal,
there's always this link below to remind us that Billy C. was THE progenitor of fusion and genre-flexing. As good as Steve Gadd is, and he's terrific, Billy was the first guy to play like this - out of his freaking mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAU5o246VSA&feature=related

NO ONE played like this back then - Lenny White, Alphonze Mouzon, etal, came AFTER him.

Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 10:46:45 ET
Posted by: book search, bs

"Still, why does it take such a long time to create an hour or so of music?"

Search out a 1981 Rolling Story article called "Triumph and Disaster in the Customerdome." (Cheerfully ripped off in the Sweet bio) It starts by describing them working on the outro to Babylon Sisters, about 30 seconds of music, for over four hours. And this was after it was in the can. It also gives an account of them nitpicking over Rick Derringer's solo on My Rival that was ultimately scrapped.

Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 09:33:11 ET
Posted by: Fife, Baltimore, eh

I remember at the Philly show last year Security Joan showing me the app that she and her partner had to put together to track Dan songs and where they showed up. I have a very old pay as you go cell phone and really have no use for a new one so I listened politely thought it was a great idea and saw Joan's passion for the whole idea. I have met Security Joan at many shows and she truly is a fine person. Boy sometimes we're so damn cynical!

Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 09:23:47 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

Hutch,

I'm not a huge Mayer fan and I don't own any of his music. But I have seen him be quite good at times on televised concerts and also quite ordinary. He really is a very decent guitarist, IMO and I like that he seems to be pushing himself to be even better. I guess what I like about him is he seems to have respect for musicianship and jazz, even though he still engages in the pop-trash that makes him the $$.

As for his impersonation of Dave Matthews, let's hope he doesn't start in with Dave's "ridiculous singing". I've always considered DM to be one seriously overrated dude. But he has some great musicians in the band.

Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 08:42:24 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

But it's "Art" Dean.... it's "Art" !!!

Saw that clip of John Mayer on Today. What a friggin' mook. Almost lost my breakfast watching him make dopey faces.
Dave Mathews wannabe. And I can't see why anybody would want to be that. Looks like he's also trying to channel Lindsay Buckingham finger-picking that Turner guitar.

What a friggin' mook.

Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 08:29:56 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

While I have no particular interest in either reporting or knowing about Dan songs played at various public venues, I can't believe the concern with this simple app.

If there is zero money involved, what could a pyramid scheme possibly deliver? And as far as registration is concerned, don't you people keep a few free email accounts for registering online or other purposes? Give a fake name and use an email address you don't care about (or get a disposable email like 10 Minute Mail). And since it is free, don't give any credit card or bank info.

We are bombarded by legitimate concerns for our privacy and any number of scams. Let's not obfuscate the real issues by making a big todo about the knucklehead stuff.

Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 08:00:19 ET
Posted by: Kevin K,,

Yeah. I don't know who to believe on this Dan Track.

They should just have it as unregistered which would solve these issues.

Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 07:42:28 ET
Posted by: Michael, to 'Larry Carlton guitar solos'

In the various studio outtake demos, you can hear those bits and pieces coming to fruition. I'm well aware of The Dan's penchant for suggesting what to use and what to lose, kind of like copying and pasting disjoined elements until they sit just right while maintaining an improvised sound. Bottom line is that every note sounds like it belongs.

As far as the new solo effort by Donald Fagen goes, while I'm happy that it's coming, I'm not so thrilled by the long interval between releases (though it's nowhere near as long as the wait between any of his former solo efforts, I'll give him that). Still, why does it take such a long time to create an hour or so of music?

On a similar note, I'm very disappointed in Jamiroquai for dragging the fans' expectations through the mud for the past year or so. First they say in early '08 that they've begun recording the new one, then in early '09 they say it should be out by year's end, then it's not coming until spring 2010, then Jay Kay says in an Italian interview that it's September, then later they claim it will be out in October and NOW they say November. That's simply atrocious PR. One thing's for damn certain: the new album had better be worth the ridiculous delays.

Date: Wed, July 28, 2010, 07:06:11 ET
Posted by: kaycee,

I have a question too of the what this Dan Track is supposed to be doing. How do we know that persons such as Little Wild are not in cahoots with the Dan Tracker people to get in early so they can be at the top tier of the Pyramid scheme? And the Dan Track will also track locations of the registered people so they could be put into a GPS to record patterns of their movements.

Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 22:12:17 ET
Posted by: Nervous nelly,

I could report something to the Dan track, truck and bus traffic was noisy and it was hard to hear, but i think I heard H-Gang at a Wawa.

If the Dan Track has no Pyramid scheme or identity theft involved, then why do we have to register to ici?

Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 15:56:38 ET
Posted by: Klaus and the rooster, Ohio

Lil Wild One/ Sorry to hear you wont be doing the Danfests in the East this year. I have not decided yet either due to work [ the Detroit or Cinci shows are tempting me] I know what you mean about hearing The Dan/ Sunday while eating breakfast buffet at one of our better restaurants the music was blaring Seals and Croft and I told the wife I wish they would turn that down. The next song was New Frontier and the wife said now I suppose you want them to turn it up? If I do decide to go see the Dukes I will post the setlist to the best of my ability' Not exactly up on Boz or Michael these days.

Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 14:04:14 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, love, love, love ya...

Security Joan is too legit to quit! And it always brightens my day to hear steely tunes while shopping....makes it less of a chore.

No east coast Duke-fests for me this year. But, looking forward to hearing all the reports from same.

Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 12:36:55 ET
Posted by: Larry Carlton guitar solo,

Michael -
The backing tracks were well rehearsed, but the solos are done spontaneously. As the boys have described, they may listen to solo takes and make suggestions about what to keep or leave out in subsequent takes and then edit a composite, but the bits are mostly raw soloing, sometimes with direction.

Larry Carlton knows how to solo. He may "compose" solos over several takes, but not "rehearse" them.

Read about Wayne Shorter doing Aja, Gadd doing Aja, Mark Knopfler on Time Out of Mind, Phil Woods on Dr. Wu, Chris Potter on West of Hollywood, and all the Peg guitar solos for a few different ideas on how solos are created for Steely Dan.

Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 12:20:20 ET
Posted by: Sample from , 3 Feet High And Rising (1989)

@Mr

Sounds like De La Soul's "Eye Know"

Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 12:06:29 ET
Posted by: Mr.,

I'm in a coffee shop and they are playing a hip-hop, mash-up, rap, whatevah thing that is backed by snippets of Peg ("I love you better") and whistling from Otis Redding's "Dock of the Bay", if I'm hearing that right.

Any ideas what this is?

Thanks!

Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 08:29:52 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc

Doc Mu: long time coming, but I have something to send you. I'm hanging out with Vikram. e me. There's logic in the addy. Drop in.

ygk

Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 07:17:18 ET
Posted by: Michael,

About KC (and most SD material in general): What wasn't mentioned was the myriad of rehearsals of the song in order to get it SD perfect. He didn't just come up with that solo 'on the fly' right then and there. Not that it matters, really, because in the end it's his name that graces the finished product.

Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 07:10:31 ET
Posted by: Provincial Reuben, Tall County AR

For some reason it's funny to hear icihere-- and perhaps a little echoey. If ici Dan Track were suspected of pyramidism, couldn't that make for a slippery (or gooey) slope?
As drummer for "the DipSticks" back at the dawn of ecommerce with "The World's Worst Rock Band Video," I was glad to hear some who sounded convincingly knowledgeable prop S. Copeland as I always sort of thought of him as the second coming of John Bonham with a third helping of Keith Moon piled on. Hard to imagine Carlock as ersatz.
Mr. Doc Mu: I was halfway there. Kudos on your simple, yet ponderous, puzzler.
On p. 195, Rainey also claims B&F came into the studio ". . .with full-blown demos. . ." ". . .they sounded like punk rock."

Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 05:04:34 ET
Posted by: Security Joan, Philly

To watching the detectives: No, for heaven's sake, no, it is not a "pyramid scam". No $ or personal info trading involved. I'm an artist & Steely Dan freak who works in conceptual / data-driven projects and this is something I've been working on for some time... several people on this board know me and can vouch that I am non-robotic, non-commercial, with pure intentions. (Also, 'ici' itself is something that likewise exists simply to support arts & culture - nothing pyramid-y about that.)

That said, considering all the crap & spam floating on the internet, I can understand your concern. But don't worry, nobody will be required to sell soap.

Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 00:53:40 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

Carlock is awesome on Two Against Nature live!

Date: Tues, July 27, 2010, 00:32:18 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

ygk: I concur. Carlock's wheelhouse is when stretching out live. Aja or another jazz track like Cubana Chant. Time Out of Mind is a perfect song live for Keith. R&B shuffles and fill + varying rhythm at the same time are not his forte.

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 22:51:53 ET
Posted by: watchin the detectives,

this ici Dan Track looks like some kind of pyramid scam.

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 20:34:22 ET
Posted by: Security Joan, Philly

it would have helped to give the web site for "DanTrack"! It's www.icihere.com

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 20:31:36 ET
Posted by: Security Joan, Philly

I've mentioned this to any number of people at Danfests, but it's now ready for prime time: I've developed a means for people to report and track when they hear Steely Dan music -- actual music, not muzak versions -- piped into public spaces. My inspiration was Walter Becker's comment in an NPR interview, "It's universally agreed that our music is the best possible rock music to play in a supermarket." This is part conceptual art project, part obsession, and was made possible by the fact that my boyfriend is a software developer who actually agreed to lend me a "DanTrack channel" on his mobile (iPhone / Android) app called "ici" for this purpose.

SO, here's the deal: next time you are at a market, drug store, gas station, liquor store and hear Steely Dan piped in, you can report it at www.icihere.com under the "DanTrack" channel (you need to register to post, but it's free and we DON'T do anything w. your info). You can then see the posts mapped out on your mobile device when you get the app (also free) from iTunes or Android. It's called 'ici'. Hopefully we can collect lots of data from across the country and world, and come up with an amazing map showing song frequency, locations, etc...

BTW, anyone is welcome to post other items -- YouTube video, Danfest meetups, etc. -- on this site. You can contact me directly if you have other ideas how we can use this cool toy for the betterment of Dan fans everywhere...

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 17:23:15 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. Time for Shots!

OK, my bad. I see the error.

It isn't free. It's $10.

Parking is free, so let's call it a wash.

:#)

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 17:21:23 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. It's Happy Hour!

Not sure what you think is wrong with Wicked Librarian's post, Dewey.

Aja Vu, a SD cover band, IS playing "Summertime at the Maritime" this coming August 7th:

http://www.csum.edu/summertime/

Maybe you are referring to something else.

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 16:25:23 ET
Posted by: Dewey Double D,

Miss Wicked must not be a "Research Librarian".

I'd check that again honey.

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 13:05:38 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc

...and I didn't get Carlock's Autograph like I have twice in the past decade for Purdie...who seems to be accessible and approachable and leaves his ego at the door - also pretty funny in person...at least for a bunch of these Dan things...

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 11:56:21 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

"But Carlock doesn't have his own Shuffle (yet). "

LOL, so true.

But Carlock can play a decent shuffle and I think is a good generalist in that he plays just about everything at a relatively high level, even if he may not be noted for being the best at any one individual thing (except for having an awesome pocket).

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 11:13:30 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc

Dean: I know what you're sayin' re: Purdie/Carlock - clearly there are spaces when either one wouldn't be the ideal fit.
But Carlock doesn't have his own Shuffle (yet).

Least fave: Lawson.

ygk

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 10:09:26 ET
Posted by: Alzassin, No idea

Who is Alzheimer?

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 10:02:40 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

ygk,

I think you are correct re: Carlock. But I have one minor quibble. I don't think Purdie could even dream of playing an acceptable version of Aja. He does what he does very well...but that's what he does.

I may be mistaken, but I think the last drummer the boys liked as a generalist (someone who does everything at a fairly high level) was Porcaro.

Jazzy,

1. Alzheimers patient goes into a bar, gets a drink and says to the bartender, "So, do I come here often?"

2. Doctor says to patient, "I have some bad news. You have Cancer and you have Alzheimers." Patient responds, "Well at least I don't have Cancer!"

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 09:22:25 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Norway

Thanks, Dean & no one!
That was what I thought as well, just couldn't remember where that interview was.
I blame it on that german guy, the very same german guy who hides my shit and distracting me so I forget things. If could only remember his name. Oh, it's Alzheimer i think. Ha.

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 09:02:50 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc

This IS Today: Some of the more memorable Carlock moments have happened in the renderings - along with the 13-piece band of modern milestone classics - of "Aja", "Babylon Sisters", and other tunes where Donald & Walter's music and arrangements allow space for Keith to stretch out, which have produced moments of the Highest Musical Order of Expression and Joy.

Until you have experienced one of these moments, you won't really understand what the fuss over Carlock is all about. Look, he's no Steve Gadd, Bernard Purdie, or Colaiutia (sp?), but the last few touring years, Keith has produced consistent outstanding musicianship, whilst performing with the one and only Steely Dan.

Gosh, and I was looking through my paperwork of the past few weeks, and realized I have an Autographed Playbill by the Purdie One himself, from his show with Doug Wamble at the Iridium.
Generous and kind in his own way...

ygk

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 08:44:08 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St Augustine Beach

Jazzassin,

According to this interview in Metel Leg...:

http://www.granatino.com/sdresource/16lc.htm

Q: Just for the record, the Kid Charlemagne solo, was that a first take all the way through?

LC: It was two takes, two parts. I did the first part and we backed it up to the middle section and then punched in from there.

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 08:35:20 ET
Posted by: no one , important

Well, there's an obvious audible edit about a third of the way through the solo - obvious to me, anyway...

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 06:52:04 ET
Posted by: Jazzassin, Neither Direction Nor Way

Just one question regarding a discussion between some friends at another board out in the internet jungle:
Did or did not Larry Carlton play the solo for Kid C at one take, after "just looking at the chart, then playing what he felt"?
Or did he have to do it several times to get what our boys were after?
Just wondered if anybody knows for sure. A link to some kind of interview or other documentation would be nice as well...

Thnx, Rolf

And CerpinTaxt, I saw you in Rudy's. You were very high.

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 06:51:15 ET
Posted by: AllisaLlarinazero, Ðîññèÿ

Äîáðûé äåíü


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Ñ óâàæåíèåì âàø äðóã Íèêàíîð

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 03:23:39 ET
Posted by: The Wicked Librarian, Vallejo, CA

Dan Fans make the news! Well sort of...

See: http://www.timesheraldonline.com/ci_15584626?IADID=Search-www.timesheraldonline.com-www.timesheraldonline.com

This may call for a Dan Fest! How about it Bay Area?

And it's free!

Lemme know whatcha think,

The Wicked Librarian

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 03:11:42 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo

Hey SS.
There's a new series plectrum set aside for you, to be delivered during the next Oz tour, if and when that may be.

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 02:30:28 ET
Posted by: carlock's space,

Dean -
Totally agree. The band is wicked live. Goosebumps, chills, etc.

But I live about 2000 miles from any place they're likely to play and probably won't see them live again. And so I crave recordings.

Good point about how they didn't like the live band in the 70's and focused on the recordings, and now they rightfully love the live band and aren't as interested in the smell of stuffed leather studio control room couches.

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 00:29:47 ET
Posted by: Indifferent , Across The Pond

Hey there Doc Moo

A little bird told me you knew Tex Watson.

Date: Mon, July 26, 2010, 00:26:29 ET
Posted by: Indifferent, Across The Pond

Hoops La Poops would you let those poor stale Easter Peeps off the hook already.

Date: Sun, July 25, 2010, 21:50:07 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

Carlock is a a stud, but he often leans too metronomic 4/4 (ex Pixeleen) on SD recordings when a song really calls for offbeats and rolling across the toms (a la Porcaro, Purdie). SD is a funky white R&B band with jazz chords and rock to rock lite then rock extra lite attitude. To play the grooves right(eous), you have to LAY BACK on them...just a bit late, but not too late.... But then after Aja Fagen would move everything off the metronome. ;(

Carlock's work on Morph was a lot looser as comfort grew, and he actually found nice R&B grooves on What I Do and Brite Nitegown.


Copeland was a real catalyst for the way the Police sounded. He could play 3-4 rhythms at once (and often did) with foot pedal, cymbals, hi hat, snare, toms. Watching him live in the early 80s was transcendent. IMO, he's the best rock drummer of all time. I listen to Demolition Man and Walking on the Moon just to dig Stewart.

The gates snare/Phil Collins Big Drum sound (great on Gabriel's Melt! but not much else) killed drumming, along with WENDEL, for a decade.

Date: Sun, July 25, 2010, 13:42:51 ET
Posted by: Lutz, SF

LAbaby:
I read it in Rolling Stone, came out in june.
Might be outdated. Notice how Fagen says he'll resume work on his cd when Steely Dan gets back from Australia.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/17386/118245

Date: Sun, July 25, 2010, 06:06:16 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Hey Bullgoose,

Still keep your plectrum, in plastic in my wallet.

Shame for you and the Oz faithful about the non-tour.

I thought November shows would have been better than the September '07 dates if only because of the weather. The first thing I did in Perth was go buy a jacket.

Nice rumour though.

Date: Sun, July 25, 2010, 04:46:25 ET
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Date: Sun, July 25, 2010, 03:07:08 ET
Posted by: LA Baby, LA obviously

Lutz -- Was your post linking to an article mentioning SD in OZ a 'reply' to my post confirming no tour? If so, I'll clarify the news: SD will not be in OZ this fall, and the articles saying otherwise aren't up to date on the latest confirmed information. Obviously several publications have said they will tour there --based as far as I can see on not much more than an idea -- and by now, writers of new copy are pretty much just copying what somebody else's last article said. But -- despite these reports, and no matter what the publications, it's not going to happen.

To the questioner about "band release" - no it doesn't mean anybody's fired :-/ When there's a possibility of a tour the band members and key crew are asked to put that period on 'hold' in case something gets booked confirmed. When it turns out the tour won't happen, the hold is 'released' -- and everyone can make other plans with that time

I would like to be of any help in the info department if I can. I'm pretty low level but even here some good info crosses my desk

LAB

Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 22:19:17 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

carlock's space,

I agree with that to a degree. I also liked the hired guns on guitar, bass, vibes, etc back in the heyday. The big-budget, "throw back the little ones and pan fry the big ones" approach really produced some dramatic stuff.

But I think the boys are more focused on what the band sounds like in concert these days (it would hard to be less focused on that aspect than what they were during most of the 70's). The live band is extraordinarily tight and dynamic. But the trade off might be a little bit of extra pizazz on the recorded versions. Instead of picking one guitarist for this song and one for that (and the same with drums, bass, etc) they now have guys who do a very fine job on all the tunes.

Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 22:05:29 ET
Posted by: CerpinTaxt, Boston! SCRATCH THAT. NEW YORK!

"A piece of island cooling in the sea"

How great of a line is that?

Further, I stumbled upon Rudy's today on the hunt for a job.

Gonna wait to go in when I have a few more piasters.

Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 21:53:06 ET
Posted by: carlock's space,

Dean, I think Carlock is fantastic and totally capable. I just don't think what Don and Walt are asking of their recording mates is as interesting or risky as it used to be. It's a bit formulaic in feel and instrumentation, and also a tad cautious, as excellent as it is.

I guess it comes down to that I prefer the old days of several rhythm sections taking a crack at a tune, and then all the tunes have a different feel with the Steely chords and Donald's voice holding it together. In the past Walter and Donald seemed inspired to try things per tune, rather than per record. In old interviews they even mentioned the Duke Ellington approach, where songs or elements of songs were written around specific players.

But, there's no point wishing for stuff that isn't going to happen...

Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 21:45:39 ET
Posted by: youtube, internet

krantz carlock lefebvre
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBZZKXfRW6o&feature=related

Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 19:34:55 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. It's Happy Hour!

carlock's space,

while I agree with some of what you said (particularly about musicians taking fewer risks these days) I think you took a huge swing and a miss when it came to drummers playing what Don and Walt want to hear. Once The Dan became a studio-based band they had several drummers play almost every track. The one that made the album is the one that made Don and Walt happy. In fact, some think Don mixed different tracks from different drummers on the same cut.

Carlock is the first drummer in years they trust to play everything well. I'll admit he may not be the best at any individual style, but he is accomplished at all of them and pulls off everything the guys need him to. If his drumming on Circus Money doesn't convince you of that, I can't imagine what will.

Just IMO, of course.

Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 18:14:44 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo

Thanks, Shark de Ville. I gotta get my earsight/eyesight checked.

Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 15:18:27 ET
Posted by: youtube, videos

Mayer w/ Carlock on the today show yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-CYxvE9cBw

Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 15:10:03 ET
Posted by: carlock's space,

Stewart Copeland took all the space he wanted in the Police, and that was a big part of the band's success and the tension that destroyed the band. By the time of Synchronicity Sting wanted to dictate how the music was played because he was the composer, losing sight of the fact that the Police's success was was due to the equal and unique voices of the 3 players.

I think Carlock is a great drummer with a very distinctive style - in other words, his voice stands out and can be identified if allowed on display, as in live Steely Dan. However, Carlock's recorded work with Steely Dan and Fagen is way too controlled. In my opinion some of the greatness of the 70's Dan is that the drummers played what they thought fit the music best, where now they play what they think Fagen wants to hear.

Seems musicians take less risks these days because there aren't as many sessions to experiment with. When working with famous people like Sting and Steely Dan, backup musicians toe the line. No more Bernard Purdie ego.

Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 11:57:42 ET
Posted by: Shark DeVille, the pagoda

I'm a Carlock fan, but that's not him on Jack of Speed. it's Michael White!

Date: Sat, July 24, 2010, 00:05:41 ET
Posted by: Lutz, SF

http://www.undercover.com.au/News-Story.aspx?id=11151_Steely_Dan_To_Tour_Australia

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 21:33:24 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

I hear "fossil" is the new "ancient".

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 19:32:27 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo

Bullgoose here.
Thanks, LA Baby, for your prompt, if heartbreaking scotchal of the OZ Tour rumour. At least we sunbaked mates had a few hours of elated anticipation. Nevertheless, we are a patient people: we didn't even get to see SD in the 70s and had to wait that extra decade for the first tour. Time is not on our side, but we watch the skies, watch the skies...

As a dog to its vomit, posters love returning to Keith Carlock. Here's my lick, as it were. Dan music is multilayered; that's what I love about it. And so too with Keith Carlock; the more you listen, the more you discover. I have discovered him to be rambunctious, subtle, adaptable, individual and a joy to watch.(because of his unique posture and the way he 'embraces' the front of the kit)

I'd cite Jack of Speed as a good example of the layers and subtlety. The sixteenth swing hints on the cymbals are a treat, while the thing grooves like J.S. Bach's Swiss watch. His drumming on Tal Wilkenfeld's Transformations CD shows how sweetly he can groove outside of 4/4.
As with SD, you can pick a layer of Carlock's drumming, listen to it for the whole tune and discover something special. That's what passes for fun out here in the bush, while we wait for the next tour.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 19:31:40 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. It's Happy Hour!

bassicinstinct,

I'm with you. In fact, I have very recently criticized a Steely Dan song on this very board. Maybe This IS Today, who clearly is a troll as he refuses to use a consistent user name, missed that.

But let me be VERY clear about this: I am a 50-something year old fossil. No doubt about that.

:#)

As for the band getting their release, I guess we will see. Unless Don and Walt gave each other releases, I imagine there may still be a tour, but simply with some different players. And for the record, I'm not saying what LA Baby says isn't true, and I'm not suggesting the tour might not be canceled. I am saying we've experienced these kind of reports before, many turned out to be false.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 18:23:48 ET
Posted by: Auntie Em,

Darn it! I was looking forward to "TOTO" as the opening act.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 18:20:40 ET
Posted by: Q, A

Does "received their release" mean they were dropped from their record label?

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 18:01:35 ET
Posted by: LA Baby, at the desk

Hello Danfans - Forgive me if this has been posted here somewhere below the drummer discussion. Unfortunately the Steely Dan tour of OZ is not going to happen this fall. The band has received its release so the odds of SD playing anywhere this year are, well, as close to zero as anyone would be willing to predict. Since I can't/won't reveal my source or position in this post, someone else will have to 'officially confirm' this tour will not happen. Perhaps some kind band member who has received his/her "release from hold" will confirm so that those of you counting on this tour can start adjusting now :-(. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Let's hold hope for 2011!

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 16:06:43 ET
Posted by: H, oops..

I guess you're not that Jim Chapin. I just noticed that he passed away last year. He did a drum clinic at our shop about five years ago.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 16:03:32 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

For the record:

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with constructive criticism.

Just slightly bemused by a comment, presumably intended seriously, that a drummer's job is to keep time!!! LOL

If I have misinterpreted some very subtle humour, you have my unreserved apologies.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 16:03:17 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

Jim Chapin - Would you happen to be THIS Jim Chapin?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Chapin

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 15:28:20 ET
Posted by: Mr this IS today,

Chris, good points. I never really said Carlock was bad, but competent, even good. if he can be counted on to do some of those early Police songs well, those punky songs where drums are the very basis of the structure If Sting still even plays them, and he uses Carlock, then Carlock has to be pretty good. You can't hide behind the other instruments on those songs like Roxanne etc.

For a twenty something, you are almost always the Voice of Reason. Quite unlike these 50 or 60 year old fossils like the Dean, Mark in Boston and bassinstinct who get pissed off when anyone is critical of anything about Steely Dan!

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 15:26:05 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

This IS Today - By Lurker Ray

Today we have DVR's & DVD Recorders
Today we have the computer, internet and John Mayer torrent sites
Today we even have "old" still working VHS recorders
Today we encountered a fool who wasted precious vacation time
Today we have a prime example of why, "thinning the herd" works

Also today, on Today, which I watched this afternoon, we saw Keith Carlock play drums behind a very non exciting performer with very
dull songs and guitar work. After watching Keith this afternoon on Today I was left with the famous quote from the little bird usually found on a crudely constructed treadmill on the Flintstones, who would
look directly into the camera, shrug and remark:

"It's a living".

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 15:22:05 ET
Posted by: Susan, The Lurker, Lurking in AZ

this IS today = brainstrainer/brain hemorrhager / brain embolism / brain embellisher =? pq

they all sound alike.

KeithsDBomb.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 14:46:46 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

Also, if there are slightly obsessive posts about members of Steely Dan's band on this board, that just might be because this is a board for Steely Dan fans and we all were interested in them enough that at some point in our lives we took the time to find an online Steely Dan community. Simply put, there are obsessives among us who want to hear that info, myself included.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 14:36:33 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

This Is Today, check out Carlock's work with Wayne Krantz and with Rudder if you want to hear him at his most varied.

I don't think Carlock is the best drummer they've ever played with but I do think he's been the best fit post reunion. Lawson was too stilted, Chambers trades chops for a pocket. Carlock's got a little of both and, in my opinion, does indeed add his own stylistic flare. It's subtle, but it's there -- I think the 08 rendition of Royal Scam is a good example. He swings the 8ths and adds some ghost notes on the snare here and there to make the tune really groove.

As for Carlock being dull with Mayer, well, the guy is a pro first and foremost and is hired to do what the artist that pays him wants. He's obviously doing something right if artists are varied as Wayne Krantz, Steely Dan, Sting, and John Mayer are calling.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 14:19:52 ET
Posted by: Mr. this IS Today,

Outside of Keith Carlock being the current drummer, is this what the hype is about? There have been posts in the past of sightings of Carlock, detailed reports like "Carlock was spotted leaving stall #3 of the rest room at club XYZ", as if they were following Tiger Woods or something. I guess it is unfair to judge based on the John Mayer performance. Mayer is good, but is more like Dave Matthews Lite. Not much opportunity to let the batons fly.

So Carlock is more jacked when he plays Aja for Steely Dan, you say? And that guy was right, Steely Dan is not very percussive like say Adam and the Ants, Van Halen, Devo or Bow Wow Wow. Well the next time I go, I will pay more attention to Keith Carlock and see for myself. My suspicion at this point, though is that he is being pumped up merely because he is the drummer for Steely Dan, which is not enough to merit accolades and bird-dog like surveillance as if he is the next Alex Van Halen or Porcaro or whomever.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 13:57:10 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, feeding the troll

ThisIsToday = ignorance in action

Mark in Boston

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 13:34:03 ET
Posted by: Clubs for Feet, 40°45′2″N 73°59′37″W

"He plays music. He doesn’t make the drums the starring instrument. He makes the drums a special part of the music—on anything he does—and he has a great pocket." - Rick Marotta on Carlock

I guess Jim Chapin equates that with "unremarkable."

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 13:02:47 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

"A drummer is there to keep time. "

Need I say more? LOL

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 12:58:17 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

Possible,

I didn't see Carlock with Sting, but what you say rings true. Stewart Copeland had very little room with the Police, IMO. Of course great drummers make the most of what room they have, and Copeland (and I'm sure Carlock) managed to shine despite the limitations, at least to those who can perceive the subtleties of drumming.

What I found particularly This is Today's post is he seems angry about having a morning off and listening to music. What exactly did he expect Sting's drummer to do, on a morning talk show mini-set?

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 12:52:59 ET
Posted by: Jim Chapin,

This IS today - the opinions, on this board, are divided regarding Carlock. My opinion is that he is a very capable, consistent rhythm-based drummer. His forte is the pocket style. He is certainly NOT a distinctive voice with regard to his rhythm playing or soloing. He has good power for his size but as many of the knowledgable posters have noted, his arsenal of chops is not that of a Purdie, Coliutta, Gadd, Marotta, etc.

As you may be able to tell from EMG and MTC, his contributions are quite unremarkable(for those that become enraged by that statement, please point out the passages that you believe to be remarkable...I'd be happy to do so, by contrast, for each of the above-mentioned drummers). SD is not the vehicle for percussion pyrotechnics to be sure; yet each of the aforementioned drummers have been able to impart a distinctive flourish to their performance. Not so with Carlock, IMHO.

Carlock's real strength, as is John Herington's, lies in his ability to synthesize, into the live shows, the recorded performances of the multitude of truly disctinctive players that have performed on SD's many songs. Many of us believe that a capable drummer should certainly be able to do this after 10 years in their concert chair and don't feel compelled to bloviate on a fairly run-of-the-mill NY-based player...there are a great many that are his equal.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 12:33:52 ET
Posted by: Mr, Ess Dee

"Of course, what I hated about seeing Carlock play for Sting was how little room Sting seemed to give Keith."


On the bus? In the dressing room?

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 12:06:04 ET
Posted by: Possible,

Urge = Urfe.

Sorry!

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 12:04:31 ET
Posted by: Possible,

Urge:

It could be that this guy isn't a Steely Dan fan and is simply a drummer or Mayer fan or the like. He simply came across this as one of many possible tangential Carlock forums.

That said, what a jerk!

Of course, what I hated about seeing Carlock play for Sting was how little room Sting seemed to give Keith.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 11:38:09 ET
Posted by: Nicholas Urfe, Phraxos

Mr. this IS today -
Presumably John Mayer didn't play Aja. If he had, your impression of Keith Carlock would have been a bit different.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 10:47:30 ET
Posted by: this IS Today,

i just saw Keith Carlock on the Today show drumming for John Mayer. never paid much attention to him. He seems pretty non-descript, he looks fairly young compared with Don and Walt and other backup players. He is not flashy and doesn't make weird faces like Buddy Rich or Charlie Watts. Or provide vocals like Don Henley or Phil Collins or flip drumsticks like Purdie.

A drummer is there to keep time. Why do people get so fired up about Carlock or any other backup musicians for that matter, like the arguments about Walt Weiskopf awhile back? These guys are not the stars, and in this particular case there was nothing to distinguish him. You'd just as well be fired up about the roadies!

So I F--ing took off from work in the morning to finally see what this Carlock fuss has been all about and all I see is a bland competent drummer. I will tell you it was a fucking waste of vacation hours, and furthermore the people on this board that are wild about him must live such miserable existences that it certainly does not take much to get them excited. I'll know better next time.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 10:16:30 ET
Posted by: ygk, nyc

bullgoose: nice post, and on that idea, I have to say, that Gaucho is just all about the big B, Betrayal. If you've ever been betrayed by someone you actually care about, or even love, those lyrics resonate with the deepest of sorrows, and can cause some listeners to wail like at a funeral of an unexpected dead child.

"Would you care to explain?", is the rhetorical question to no real answer that words can provide.

ygk

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 04:39:13 ET
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Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 04:20:41 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo

Howdy, SS. Bullgoose here.
Great anticipation here in Bruce/Cobber/Sheila-land with word of a November tour to Muswellbrook and points beyond. I can't remember whether I posted it before, but your comment on Charlie freak reminded me that I can hear a hint of sleighbell towards the end of Jack of Speed. I can't help but wonder whether the boys wanted to hark back to Charlie Freak in some way.

Charlie Freak is certainly unusual in its sincerity. For me, it has that whole Charles Dickens/Victor Hugo vibe, and I must admit that it has make the eyes water from time to time. The chorus of Gaucho can have the same effect. The beauty of the music makes me sob, while the campness of, 'would you care to explain?', 'get rid of him', 'look at you' etc makes me chortle.

On the subject of waterworks and grown men, Big Country by Bela Fleck and the Flecktones
is so wonderful that it often makes the lip tremble. In fact it makes me half wish I was American, and- don't be offended-believe me, that doesn't happen very often. It's on Greatest Hits of the 20th Century and Live at the Quick.
But that's just me.
Meanwhile, we await confirmation of the tour.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 04:20:33 ET
Posted by: the bullgoose, sweet home bonalbo

Howdy, SS. Bullgoose here.
Great anticipation here in Bruce/Cobber/Sheila-land with word of a November tour to Muswellbrook and points beyond. I can't remember whether I posted it before, but your comment on Charlie freak reminded me that I can hear a hint of sleighbell towards the end of Jack of Speed. I can't help but wonder whether the boys wanted to hark back to Charlie Freak in some way.

Charlie Freak is certainly unusual in its sincerity. For me, it has that whole Charles Dickens/Victor Hugo vibe, and I must admit that it has make the eyes water from time to time. The chorus of Gaucho can have the same effect. The beauty of the music makes me sob, while the campness of, 'would you care to explain?', 'get rid of him', 'look at you' etc makes me chortle.

On the subject of waterworks and grown men, Big Country by Bela Fleck and the Flecktones
is so wonderful that it often makes the lip tremble. In fact it makes me half wish I was American, and- don't be offended-believe me, that doesn't happen very often. It's on Greatest Hits of the 20th Century and Live at the Quick.
But that's just me.
Meanwhile, we await confirmation of the tour.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 00:57:04 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

Skin Deep is a great Ellington tune, Hoops. It would be perfect for the SD Orchestra. But don't they usually open with a SD song and close with something more obscure? Skin Deep is far more an opener than a closer though, IMO.

I have never heard of Dick Buckley. I will have to do a little research. RIP just the same.

Date: Fri, July 23, 2010, 00:26:51 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

X-Factor...it's all good, but I differ with you on some on the Pretzel Logic tracks.

I'm a Through With Buzz fan. That song has a five word verse, a chorus, a bridge..it all sounds musical and it's over before you know it.

I really like the Charlie Freak lyric, and the sleigh bells.

Monkey in Your Soul has a great sounding fuzz bass and sassy horns.

The lyrical themes lean toward a Charlie Parker concept album.

Overall, lots to like.

Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 23:56:54 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Here's a link to Ellington and "Skin Deep". Besides reminding me of Dick Buckley, I always have thought it would make a great opener for the Steely Dan Orchestra, before Donald and Walter walk on stage. Lots of room for everyone--especially Keith Carlock--to stretch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkO6eRxE-yU

Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 23:52:54 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

RIP, Dick Buckley.

Dick was to Chicago Jazz what Mort Fega was to NYC Jazz.

Dick started his radio show with Duke Ellington's "Skin Deep", the opening track off "Ellington Uptown". Dick worked with Norman Granz at Verve and his radio show still ran on Chicago Public Radio at 2 PM Sunday afternoons until he (and Marian McPartland's Piano Jazz) were dropped in the past couple of years.

(I haven't donated to CPR since--Piano Jazz has resurfaced on a local classical station. Piano Jazz was dropped in part to make way.)

So here's to Dick. I'm sure he's enjoying "the good ones" right now.

Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 23:26:20 ET
Posted by: Dana , formerly of Berkeley

From the next Dandom Digest:

Added to NRP.com today, 7.22.2010

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128691918&sc=nl&cc=sod-20100722

------

"Not surprising for someone who's a member of both <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15231985> Steely Dan's touring band and the most recent incarnation of <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15360402>Yoko Ono's Plastic Ono Band, Michael Leonhart avoids anything close to the beaten path. The singer, songwriter and multi-instrumentalist mixes and matches funk, world music, jazz and artful pop with merry abandon."

------

The 4+ min clip of "The Story of Echo Lake" is delicious!

Dana,
formerly of Berkeley CA

Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 18:08:08 ET
Posted by: CJB, YVR

Awesome Greek seats indeed, Mr. Ray. Thanks!

Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 15:48:40 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Dukes Of September Greek Theatre Los Angeles
Internet Presale NOW!
Passwords: STEELY or REVUE

Never saw "two" passwords before.
Though I got awesome seats when I used
the "REVUE" code.

Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 13:10:13 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, correction

Sorry, I meant 7/23 for the Carlock appearance on The Today Show.

MIB

Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 12:29:34 ET
Posted by: Hutch,

Hey Steely Campers - Jeez, I hope "Path-etic" doesn't hear about this!

Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 11:56:35 ET
Posted by: Hey Steely Campers..., ....

Bring your tents! Walt Weiskopf jazz camp show July 30.

Link to article (a little about WW and about other shows):

http://www.gazette.net/stories/07212010/entemon103632_32533.php

Details:

July 30 Double Dose of Jazz at Saint Mark Presbyterian Church
10701 Old Georgetown Road, Rockville, MD 20852
Jazz lovers, attend the All Star Concert or the Student concert or both with one ticket!

Features sax phenomenon Walt Weiskopf, bassist and composer Tom Baldwin, lauded drummer Tony Martucci, internationally respected trumpeter Alex Norris, venerated guitarist Steve Rochinski,
and pianist Wade Beach. Hear “Tenor Madness” by Sonny Rollins, (The tenor parts originally recorded by Rollins and
Coltrane will be played by Weiskopf and Antoniuk.) Enjoy pieces by John Coltrane and Charlie Parker.
7:00 PM Student Concert
8:15 PM All Stars Concert
Tickets: $15 advance, $20 at the door (if available), $5 for children 12 and under

Advance tickets at www.instantseats.com

Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 10:58:34 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, .

On Friday morning, 7/22, John Mayer will be performing with Keith Carlock on the Today Show as part of the Summer Music Series. The artists usually take the stage at 8:30am.

Mark in Boston

Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 09:06:02 ET
Posted by: soboba revisted, no where near you

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/11962

Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 09:05:54 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

The Donald also has said he like Countdown best...so who knows?

Without the DBX fiasco, Katy might be easily recognized as their finest album. I still do.

Date: Thurs, July 22, 2010, 06:50:22 ET
Posted by: Deming, l

It's not just a question of music's quality, but its qualities. Skillful music does not equal great music.

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 23:30:56 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

I think performing Katy Lied live would allow Don and Walt to, in a way, make up for the recording imperfections of that album. I can't imagine what songs Don thinks are weak from that album.

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 23:27:58 ET
Posted by: TQM,

So what it comes down to are the requirements. And people value different things, what is important. But that is not a problem with defining what the measure of Quality is. If cuteness of the band members is a requirement, there are certain human characteristics that have been found that have mass appeal, like symmetry, full lips, square jaws, big jugs, high cheekbones etc. Once what is important, or valued is established as a requirement, metrics can be devised to measure the degree of conformance to that requirement, even numerically, if not, qualitatively.

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 22:48:51 ET
Posted by: Casual Fan, Still on the couch

TQM, metrics, etc.

I've heard criteria in the past as:

1) Sales
2) Danceability
3) Can you make out the lyrics
4) Good horns

and on and on


Back in the 2003-2006 region, I took two relative newbies to see Steely Dan shows. Both very pretty women, in their mid 30's -- one was from Peru, the other good ole' USA.

Interestingly, both of them midway through their respective shows turned to me and said in pretty much the exact same words, "I love that little man" referring to DF.

Now I was focused on who was lead, Herrington or Becker, but to them, in the moment, that was quality. They left SD shows remembering how the band looked and cool DF was for an old guy.

Who am I to argue with them or get them to focus on what I focused on?

World would be boring if we saw/heard/experienced things the same way, graded "quality" identically.

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 21:58:42 ET
Posted by: Total Quality Management,

If you study TQM quality is defined as the degree of conformance to requirements. It can then be broken down into metrics. There is no doubt some subjectivity, but for a record some of the quality metrics might be the degree of sound recording fidelity. Katy Lied and AIA would rank low, compared to EMG or some others. Other metrics could be to grade how well the session musicians conformed to the sheet music, if the songs are too long (depending on what the goal is) like half of those on Morph the Cat or West of Hollywood comes to mind. If you are going for a pop hit, the requirement used to be 3 min. Also, there could be shitty, cheap or out of tune instruments, as well as vocalists that can't hit required notes. If you break these down to enough aspects, and rate them against the standard that Don and Walt set or what the sheet music requires, use rating scales for each aspect, you will get a fair picture of the level of quality. Even though some of these things are subjective, there are relative levels of competence or standards for sound equipment and techniques for which objective judgements can be made. As far as whether the public likes it, that is much more subjective, but sales are an indicator. But a philharmonic orchestral recording can be of impeccable execution to the sheet music, extremely competent musicianship, played on the finest, finely tuned instruments, captured by the finest sound equipment and expertly engineered and it won't sell for shit, even though it IS a Quality recording.

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 21:12:22 ET
Posted by: Casual Fan, Couch

I once tried to define quality and realized that, as it is by definition completely subjective, it is not definable.

Other than that, of course.

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 20:42:05 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

One more quick point, jenn. "Catchy hooks" and having the potential to be a single are really very far from anything I use to determine music's quality. But that's me.

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 20:40:23 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St. Augustine Beach

jenn posted: "Don said that he thought that EMG was stronger than Two against nature, and was puzzled why it didn't sell higher. we, the people saw it diferntly and bought more of Two Against Nature. What we thing is more important than what Don think!!!!!! "

I am shocked to find someone on a Steely Dan board who would equate popularity and/or record sales with quality. (In fact, I tend to believe the precise opposite happens more often.) Countdown didn't sell as well as Can't Buy a Thrill--do you think it is an inferior album? Pretzel logic, indeed. Of course you may conclude that Dan fans liked 2vN better than EMG, based on the sales, but I might even question that conclusion. 2vN was SD's first studio album in 20 years, and was also the beneficiary of a pretty good marketing campaign, especially compared to the lame effort the label gave EMG.

Of course, if you look at my original statement, what I said was "
Despite what many of us may think is filler, throw-away, good, bad, etc, what matters is what Walt and Don think, when it comes down to the songs they select" Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but by "select" I was talking about what Don and Walt choose to play live. For the most part, they play what they like, and what they think holds up well in a live setting. And if you don't buy that, maybe you will buy this: What matters is what Walt and Don think, or perhaps at times, what they think we think, when it comes to what they decide to play in concert.

As for Blues Beach, I don't hate it nor do I think it sucks. I simply don't find it that appealing of a song, and really can't figure out how it became the single. While I'm not much for describing why something doesn't appeal to me (usually) I can say the tinny sounding keyboard in this song is a bit off-putting. On some days I really like it, and there are some parts of the song I always like. But, overall I think it is one of the band's weakest. As for Cousin Dupree, I also don't think it sucks, but I will agree it was overplayed when 2vN first came out.


And Ray, I think they wrote Dallas well before that incident, based on the following: They were coming off two top 10 singles, Dallas was one of the Dan's first releases and it was not a top 10 anything.

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 20:12:18 ET
Posted by: poor recordings,

Katy Lied with DBX is not overall their poorest recording,
Alive in America IS.

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 19:28:59 ET
Posted by: Mr LaPage, Den

Anyone catch the irony of one of the ads on that Billboard page?

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 19:22:32 ET
Posted by: jenn j.,

Don said that he thought that EMG was stronger than Two against nature, and was puzzled why it didn't sell higher. we, the people saw it diferntly and bought more of Two Against Nature. What we thing is more important than what Don think!!!!!!

Dean, sob why do you think Blues beach is that bad. It has the most catching hooks and it probaly could be a single. it wuz way beter than Cousin Dupree which sucked!!!!!

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 18:55:50 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar. Shots for Everyone!

"But when he says consistent, what does he mean? ...Maybe he means consistent quality, that it came out the way they wanted?"

I think it's fairly obvious that is exactly what he means, actually. He said:

"The reason we chose the three is because they were the most consistent all the way through. We never have any filler, but on the other albums there are certain songs we thought could have been better. Pretzel Logic is definitely one of the more consistent ones"

Obviously Don thinks PL had no (or fewer) "songs we thought could have been better". Clearly he thinks the quality of the songs are better on Pretzel Logic than on the earlier albums.

Despite what many of us may think is filler, throw-away, good, bad, etc, what matters is what Walt and Don think, when it comes down to the songs they select. IMO, other than "Blues Beach" the only slightly weak songs are on Can't Buy a Thrill, but Don didn't ask for my opinion (nor should he).

BTW, I read somewhere where Don said he also thought 2vN and EMG were of consistently high quality throughout, but he didn't think many people would pay/show-up to hear them played live. I sure would.

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 18:41:38 ET
Posted by: pretzel twist,

It is evidently true that DF is proud of Pretzel Logic, he even reused pieces of it on TvN, 25 years later! But when he says consistent, what does he mean? The tune selection is all over the place, almost as bad as Can't Buy a Thrill. You got country and western, blues, motown, rag time, pop, jazz, latin, even some metal. Countdown to Ecstasy would be one of the most consistent, with its extended jams. Maybe he means consistent quality, that it came out the way they wanted?

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 18:33:49 ET
Posted by: Dave, NJ

With those Billboard articles, the toolbar at the top lets you increase the font size. Setting it to max is just about right for reading.

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 17:02:53 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour!

Great Any Major dude covers. The worst among them were the Wilco efforts, IMO, particularly the live version. All in all, nicely done.

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 16:53:51 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Thanks for the 1974 Billboard article.

Very interesting "Dallas" story.

I wonder if that was the impetous
for the notorious song?

Hmmm.....

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 16:47:32 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Manatee Bar, It's Happy Hour!

Dunno where I read it, but I recall Donald saying that "Night by Night" was their effort to make a commercial single, from Pretzel Logic.

Date: Wed, July 21, 2010, 16:28:00 ET
Posted by: Ben, Indy

I just saw this at glidemagazine.com.

http://www.glidemagazine.com/hiddentrack/cover-wars-any-major-dude-will-tell-you/