MAY 2002 BlueBook Entries

Date: Fri, May 31, 2002, 22:06:40
Posted by: HeyMike, Chicago Suburbs

Hey, what's the buzz (are we through with buzz?)on the Barrington KL show on the 8th?? Who's going? I know I'll be there!! I thought I might go early and scope out a table or two. Keith, you gonna be in town??

HeyMike

Date: Fri, May 31, 2002, 21:05:42
Posted by: Steely Charette Jury, Here, there, everywhere

On behalf of the very appreciative minions of the Greater Loyal Dandom, The Steely Charette Jury bestows several awards
in equal order of outstanding excellence.

Complete Award listings and actual Design Concepts appear at http://www.flathat.net/charette

A few excerpts:

"My bid is for a colossal 3d corporate logo to dominate the exhibit space, to awe and overwhelm the senses of the masses, to induce fibrillation into the hearts of  the terminally crusty and strike a blow for common cynicism and succinctness."—Paul Shotan

"Of course, this studio-replica would have to be equipped with the Maggie-whatever speakers and Bosendorfer piano and all the other highfalutin' equipment they mention so fondly in liner notes and other memoirs (hell, maybe even the dreaded DBX machine that screwed up the 'Katie Lied' tapes should be in there)."—Miz Ducky


"The Slightly Psychoanalyzed Fictional Steely Dan Collection…We have assembled the following fictional items that could be placed in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, all taken from Steely Dan music. While doing so, we found a few (and are sure there are others) fascinating social deviancies and suchlike in the two men most likely responsible for the music of Steely Dan. Although we are highly talented fictional PhD.s, the following notes are based on pure bias and are not intended to cure or diagnose a disease, or to resolve any impending drug company disputes." —Frank Felder, Ph.D. & Felicia Felder, Ph.D.


"When said Dan Fan stops spinning, the Dan Fan designated as "it" selects an illicit or dubious act as suggested by the particular album wedge that stops in front of her or him. Once the act is performed with or upon the Dan Fan strapped to the lazy Susan…"— et.al.

Check out http://www.flathat.net/charette for full coverage. Look for O. to offer additonal post-deliberation commentary.

Signed,
The Steely Charette Committee
to design a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Exhibit for Steely Dan
a.k.a MUD!

Date: Fri, May 31, 2002, 18:11:41
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, Chi

I worked a Remy Shand show last month. He was a great guy, his whole band was tops, and it was a heck of a show.

There's another Steely connection to him that I have, but it's too lame to mention.

Date: Fri, May 31, 2002, 08:20:08
Posted by: Big Fan,

Canadaian musician mentions SD:
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/144/living/Remy_Shand_bares_his_soul+.shtml

Date: Thurs, May 30, 2002, 22:06:46
Posted by: Dave,

Was looking at the Harman/Kardon DAL 150 ezzlink to connect my PC to my home audio system via USB. Any thoughts on this?

Date: Thurs, May 30, 2002, 17:20:16
Posted by: father william,

http://www.history-o f-rock.com/jay_and_the_americans.htm

Date: Thurs, May 30, 2002, 16:12:42
Posted by: Embarassed,

You know, I can't even think of a hit by Jay and the Americans. I know they were big but what did they do? Did they do Come A Little Bit Closer?

Date: Thurs, May 30, 2002, 05:40:27
Posted by: norm, the experts at the mojo board

Speaking of bubblegum, I just checked out the SD "discussion" at the Mojo. One guy thinks Gary Katz is the guy from Kasenatz Katz (who did the Ohio Express, etc.), so therefore Steely Dan is obviously just another bubblegum act. Now, THERE's some brilliant deduction.

I haven't found the Steely Dan vs. Monkees debate, but if this is any indication of what's there, then oy!. Then again, that whole topic is just so ridiculous in the first place, it's probably pretty funny that anyone's even trying to debate it.

Date: Thurs, May 30, 2002, 03:54:30
Posted by: heymike, chicago

Gee Whiz and I thought all this bubble gum /late sixties talk was going to circle back to Jay and the Americans!

Date: Thurs, May 30, 2002, 00:36:03
Posted by: oleander, ole 'lo

Yo, Wow! Oy!

Date: Wed, May 29, 2002, 18:10:05
Posted by: 1 der Waiyf,

This week's Trivia:

"IRONIC AND DETACHED LONG BEFORE FASHION CAUGHT UP"

Q: Guess what musical artist this weekend newspaper headline is about?

A: THE KINKS!

When I saw the headline, I immediately thought of Steely Dan. Alas, the article was not to be about our esteemed Becker and Fagen.

Maybe Diana Krall picks up fans because of her looks. But I bet there are those who don't give her talents a chance because of her looks. I happen to like her CDs.

I think Eminem has used up 13 of his 15 minutes of fame. NEXT!!!!!

Date: Wed, May 29, 2002, 16:43:39
Posted by: Cosmic WoW,

Hoops, Earl good fer yer catching my point. Indeed, Eminem is too chicken-shit to mix-it-up with The Real Shady, The Only Shady, Mr. Steely Dan. He knows that maybe all he can come up with is to shout that Steely Dan are two old geezers, that SD could knock Eminem dead on his ass with just sheer integrity, let alone machete-sharp wit. That was the point of showing him bashing Moby and others.

WoW
¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸

Date: Wed, May 29, 2002, 16:33:23
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

OK...here's another one. Kulee Baba, the first line supposedly is "My nom-de-voyage is Mexuine." I haven't been able to find anything remotely resembling this on the internet for a common name. How about this...his suit's a bright Irish green, so why couldn't his nom-de-voyage be McSween? The thing that throws me off is that typically the French term would point to a French name. Mexuine (or M'exuine?) could have a Mediterranean flavor, but I guess the way he sings it just sounds more like a Mc than a Mex. Just the way I am hearing it I suppose.

Thoughts?

Earl

Date: Wed, May 29, 2002, 16:06:56
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

Well, having seen some of these files at the Metzger site, I have been taking interest in "The 2nd Arrangement." I was over at the Fever Dreams web site and there was a discussion regarding a line in the chorus. Oleander claims the line is "Larue steps out, with no regrets". I'd like to offer this...how about "The Rue steps out, with no regrets." Basically a personification of the narrator's guilt, sorrow, etc. that he should feel from playing this two-timing game. Or potentially the narrator tells his lover the bad news, and his lover leaves upset (The Rue). I think "Lash Larue" is a valid narcissist case, but noticing the song's lyrics the guy never talks about anything other than the situation at hand...and being a self-centered person it makes a lot of sense he talks about himself and the things that affect him.

Anyone else have thoughts? We haven't talked much about lyric interpretations around here for a while.

Earl

Date: Wed, May 29, 2002, 10:37:13
Posted by: Phil Poudensan, France

Hi everybody, I just saw on www.fnac.com wich is a kind of french amazon.com that they have a japanese import of a video, VHS I think, called "Steely Dan mystery concert in N.Y" . It doesn't seem to be the 2vsN one, maybe the VH1 concert. Anyone has more info on that?
If you want to see it, go to fnac.com and type Steely Dan in the video/DVD category.

Date: Wed, May 29, 2002, 08:22:37
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

Eminem - I agree w/ you Mr. Sam. Also, I think there would be two reasons that Eminem didn't bash SD:

1) He didn't think it was worth his breath to poke at them.
2) He respects SD enough to realize that they are more antiestablishment than he will ever be.

Whereas Moby is the consummate sellout, even flaunting the fact in his VH-1 specials that he has made tons of money selling his songs to corporations for marketing purposes.

I find the music industry very hypocritical. They claim to be liberal, sponsoring Democratic initiatives left and right. They portray themselves as wanted to help out the less fortunate, lobbying for minority rights, etc. But then, when it comes time to make their buck, they squeeze every last penny they can get their hands on. When have you ever heard of the music industry going into the inner cities to give away CD's to the less fortunate? Give away songbooks to innercity youth to help teach them music? Hah. It's a big superficial play.

There will never be change though, as Mr. Sam stated. The big players will find their marketable musicians, and will exploit them to the point that they come crying when they are 35 and bankrupt.

Boy, on a related note, I had some respect for No Doubt when they hit the scene with their ska music. I'm sorry, but whoever is managing their musical interests has sent them down the Madonna path...their music sounds so awful (almost not music).

Earl

Date: Tues, May 28, 2002, 22:33:43
Posted by: hoops,

Just passing through real quick.

I bought the last Eminem CD to catch what all the discussion was about. A couple of musician acquaintances I really respect were really into it. That got me going and then maybe it was when Bob Dylan said he thought it was a great CD. I don't have to agree with Bob all the time but it was certainly cause to pause. Anyways, I found it to be like a 2.5 star-movie. It was interesting to listen to once, maybe replay a couple of parts multiple times. But since then, no interest in listening to it. Compare with any Steely Dan tune which I will play over and over and over again. Forget this BS about Eminen pushing social justice, etc. That's just a front for Universal and him selling shock. I doubt few people were inspired to take up causes against family abuse, etc as a result of Eminem. Sure he tells it like he sees it or as he wants to shock us, but so does Roseanne and Jenny Jones.

Cosmic's post made me check out the words on the new Eminem CD. What I find curious, is despite being upset by Steely Dan at the Grammys, Eminem doesn't bash Steely Dan, as far as I can tell-. What's the deal? He goes after Moby, for instance, but stays away from SD. Think about that one.

Gotta agree. Diana Krall's music is good, but there's no way she would reach this height of popularity without all the marketing behind her and that marketing relies on her beauty to get her in the door. Still, I do like her Christmas EP. Still, not as bad as marketing Eminem.

Think about how the record companies and radio stations have the payola thing and then think about RIAA's potential motives behind the whole royalty scam RIAA is trying to inflict on small Internet radio station providers like Live365.com

jim

Date: Tues, May 28, 2002, 22:32:21
Posted by: Geezer Peg ,

(loud back beat booming and DJ scratching record in background)

There's tunes that got it and tunes that don't
If they had it they'll still have it when they get old
They get played by fine musicians,
Praised for paving new roads.

What will happen with this rappin, once the years bring a change?
Will a cussword keep its feeling, oh, will it mean the same?
Can your hands keep their emotion
While you're waving with a cane?

Date: Tues, May 28, 2002, 21:01:42
Posted by: HeyMike, Chicago

Mr. Sam

Can I get an AMEN!!!???

Date: Tues, May 28, 2002, 19:04:21
Posted by: Steveedan,

Mr. Sam --- RIGHT ON !!!

Date: Tues, May 28, 2002, 16:55:22
Posted by: Mr. Sam, The Old Folks Home in Maryland

Dear Citizens of Planet Dan:

Why all the needless waste of energy venting about Eminem? Didn't we lay this subject to rest last spring? The ultimate irony is that you unwittingly extend his shelf-life and bolster his current market value by continuing to talk about him.

Understand, my friends, that Eminem is but the latest in the historical line of corporate shills that trade on their ability to piss off large segments of the adult population. (Uh, that would be us.) Think of him, if you will, as a corporate cash cow from the "Controversy Sells" line of entertainment products.

Now the good news. Eminem is subject to the same marketing laws that exacted their ravages on the likes of Vanilla Ice, 2 Live Crew, and Pauly Shore. In much the same way that Madonna's star has faded because middle aged looks, affluence, and motherhood aren't controversial or cutting edge (these things are, in fact, status quo, and, thus, boring in the world of youth marketing), Eminem too will begin fading the moment the general public just ignores him. Once the target audience realizes that Eminem records no longer evoke a rise in their elders, he will lose his marketing cache.

Will the art world change for the better when that day comes? Probably not, I'm sad to say. The crass and cynical marketing machinery at America's record labels will simply look for another symbol of teenage rebellion. When they find a figurehead that resonates with the youth culture simply because of his/her/its power to get a rise out of America's parents, then the PR people will declare that a new star is born. That is (always has been, and probably always will be) a feature of the consumer driven culture that we live in. The fact that it bugs us (sigh!) is also a sign that we are getting older.

Take comfort, though, my fellow moms, dads, aunts, uncles, and grand parents. The aging process surely has its downside, but it's also very liberating. For, once you turn in your antiestablishment credentials, and resign yourself to the fact that you'll never again be viewed as "cool" by young people, you become free to publicly acknowledge and appreciate the artistic treasures that your parents and grandparents generation willed to you. That said, I think I'll go dust off some old Miles Davis, John Coltraine, Frank Sinatra, and Duke Ellington recordings. Who knows? I may even decide to open up the windows, turn up the volume, and piss off a few kids in the neighborhood!!

Humbly Yours,
Mister Sam

"...It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing..."

Date: Tues, May 28, 2002, 14:31:27
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

Eminem is a fake, just like the other rap artists of the day. Take a genre and rape it to death for every last $$$. I don't care what he says, or what Elton John thinks, if they think he's not homophobic then they should have their heads examined. He has been given artistic immunity by the liberal establishment (a.k.a. Hollywood and his record company).

I'm not for PC, but why is it that simply because a person is a musician that they can get away with the same things that if I were to say them would be labelled? There's a double standard, and the funny thing is that usually that double standard is justified because the person in question has "endured hardship." I have a funny feeling that Eminem's main hardships were created by his own actions.

I think my Eminem chronograph just hit 14:45.

Earl

Date: Tues, May 28, 2002, 14:05:55
Posted by: Cosmic WoW,

What. Eminem doesn't mention Steely Dan on his new one?

From Without Me off his new one:
OOOPS! I meant to say:

IMHO, Diana IS very talented; but she wouldn't have become so big if she DIDN't HAVE the looks to market. There are so many talented women who get over-"looked"

WoW
¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸

Date: Tues, May 28, 2002, 13:37:09
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago

My bad. I didn't get to see the album credits, just heard the track. My friend told me it was David Gilmour, not David Gilmore. It's still a great track though!

Date: Tues, May 28, 2002, 13:33:20
Posted by: Comic Wow,

What. Eminem doesn't mention Steely Dan on his new one?

From Without Me off his new one:
Chris Kirkpatrick you can get your ass kicked/ worse than them little Limp Bizkit bastards, and Moby/ you can get stomped by Obie, you 36 year old bald headed fag blow me/You don't know me, you're too old let go its over, nobody listens to techno/ Now lets go, give me the signal I'll be there with a whole list full of new insults/ I've been dope, suspenseful with a pencil ever since Prince turned himself into a symbol/ But sometimes the shit just seems, everybody only wants to discuss me/ So this must mean I'm disgusting, but its just me I'm just obscene/ Though I'm not the first king of controversy/ I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley, to do Black Music so selfishly/ and use it to get myself wealthy (Hey)/ there's a concept that works/ 20 million other white rappers emerge/ but no matter how many fish in the sea it'd be so empty without me

++++++++
Speaking of marketing Diana Krall, Eminem is so heavily marketed by establishment that I still can't get over how many people think he is anti-establishment.

IMHO, Diana IS very talented; but she wouldn't have become so big if she had the looks to market. There are so many talented women who get over-"looked"

Wasn't there a Reggie McBride who was also a great session bassist? Any relation to Charles?

WoW
¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸

Date: Tues, May 28, 2002, 12:17:20
Posted by: dont ask,

"He does a version of Aja on it with special guest David Gilmour!! David is absolutely smoking on it! You'd never believe it was him..."

That's because it ISN'T David Gilmour of Pink Floyd. But to keep it Dan related... it is one David Gilmore, member of "The Lost Tribe" which WB Produced.

Date: Tues, May 28, 2002, 11:57:08
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago

Just reading about the guitarists. One of my particular favorites is Michael Landau. He's played with EVERYONE! Joni Mitchell, Boz Scaggs, Seal etc. He is incredible. His fusion band Karizma plays some of the tastiest tunes ever without being "smooth jazz". Intense stuff. Also, his solo albums are great! Check out "The Star Spangled Banner", "Tales from the Bulge", "Live 2000", and Karizma's "Document" www.mikelandau.com

Date: Tues, May 28, 2002, 11:50:51
Posted by: Dennis Shepherd, Chicago

Frank,

Actually, there is a Christian McBride (outstanding upright bassist) album, not sure of the name of it but it's pretty recent. He does a version of Aja on it with special guest David Gilmour!! David is absolutely smoking on it! You'd never believe it was him because it's a little "jazzier" than he usually plays. His phrasing and ideas are always brilliant but to me his playing on this particular recording shows how versatile he is. Great, melodic, thoughtful playing. Check it out.

Dennis - Katy Lied

Date: Tues, May 28, 2002, 07:48:21
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

1derwaif: Sorry, but Diana Krall is all about the looks. How many female ugly jazz singers have made it on the scene in the last 20 years? ........What, cat got your tongue?

Also, interesting article I came across last week:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020524/tv_nm/radio_1&printer=1

Basically the recording industry and musicians have banded together to try to lobby Congress to modify payola laws. So basically, in my mind, that's an admission that Top 40 radio is a puppet of record labels. Hope this link works...

Earl

Date: Mon, May 27, 2002, 17:48:34
Posted by: 1 der Waiyf,

"IRONIC AND DETACHED LONG BEFORE FASHION CAUGHT UP"

Guess what musical artist this a weekend newspaper headline about?

Also, speaking of irony and sarcasm, "Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman" and "Fernwood 2Night" starts airring in repeats this Friday on TV Land. A couple of TV counterparts to SD in the mid 1970s.

Date: Mon, May 27, 2002, 17:43:27
Posted by: 1 der Waiyf,

I remember a story about Steely Dan performing PF's "Money" during a soundcheck. Is that true? All I can picture is Fagen singing with his sneer, "Don't give me that do goody good bullshit."

Date: Mon, May 27, 2002, 12:45:37
Posted by: Steveedan,

Frank - that would be another brick in the Caves of Altamira !!!

Date: Mon, May 27, 2002, 09:52:50
Posted by: Frank, Boston, Ma

Q- I always wanted to hear David Gilmore from Pink Flyod play on a SD record. I think that would be great!

Date: Mon, May 27, 2002, 04:28:34
Posted by: Steveedan,

Sean - your question about Tony Levin ... Tony also played with Paul Simon live and also with King Crimson in the early to mid 1980's. The fretless instrument that you might be thinking of was the Chapman stick. This was a bass and guitar hybrid that you "fretted" with both hands. You did not have to pluck it or use a pick to make sound with it. It was a faily esoteric instrument and I haven't heard any mention of it in decades, but, I knew a guy way back when who could play Jeff Beck's Freeway Jam with it and play both the bass and the lead guitar parts simultaneously. That was quite a spectacle.

Sort of like last night's Laker game (the last 11 seconds any way).

Have a happy Memorial Day and remember to thoroughly cook your meat, fish and poultry. I bring this up in reaction to a 20/20 or similar type of news program exposing the practice of major super market chains to re-date the meat, fish and poultry to get a few more days on the shelf out of them. Steak tar tar? That's for the other guy at this point.


Steveedan

Date: Sun, May 26, 2002, 22:35:23
Posted by: norm, re: Jimi

Oops - this part got cut and not pasted in my last post. To answer your question, Jimi was considering getting more into jazz near the end of his life. His hearing was getting pretty damaged after years of excessive volume, and it was one of his motivations to find something new. He was talking to Miles Davis about collaborating, but id ultimately didn't happen because (if I remember correctly) Miles wanted too much money.

Jimi had the best of both worlds. He could be totally loose with a this-could-go-anywhere-at-any-time vibe, but he could also play with precision and finesse when necessary, and he understood how to use the recording studio as an instrument in itself. He could have easliy ended up on a few SD tracks.

Date: Sun, May 26, 2002, 22:26:14
Posted by: norm, guitarists

Jeff Beck was great on Wired and There & Back, haven't heard his recent stuff.


Another great player is Allan Holdsworth. I couldn't get into his more chordal 1980's stuff, but he really was one of the great soloists, especially on Bundles, his one album with Soft Machine.

Speaking of which, a few ex-Softs have formed a band called Softwear. Besides Holdsworth on guitar, there's Elton Dean on sax, Hugh Hopper on bass and John Marshall on drums. Last time I heard about a line-up with this sort of pedigree, it turned out to be Asia. I doubt these guys will go down a similar road. They're coming to Seattle for a progrock festival in August, and they're not the only act worth checking out:

http://twomonkeyfinger.com/bands.asp


A few other great players, in no particular order: Richard Thompson, Leo Kottke, Steve Hillage, Ollie Halsall, Frank Zappa, and the list goes on........

Date: Sun, May 26, 2002, 21:51:03
Posted by: Q, Tampa

I was watching a Jimi video of "Dolly Dagger" and the question hit me of whether, assuming Jimi were alive and "well", whether DF/WB would have ever contemplated using/working with him.

Jimi can play some of the most delicate and beautiful rhythm chords imaginable, and , of course, could rip seemingly any lead WB/DF could demand.

Any thoughts?

How about:

Jeff Beck

Al Demeola

Steve Howe

pick your favorite guitarist...

...........

...........QB...

"The Wind Cries Josie"!

Date: Sun, May 26, 2002, 15:56:36
Posted by: Sean, Quincy

Patty of Naked Lunch; Thank you for showing us the Whisky Poster. You should be proud of your purchase!

GYPSY QUEEN RULES!!!

From the P-FAQ webpage that GypsyQueen notes below. FUNKY STUFF!!!!!!

4. Mommy, What's A Funkadelic and how is it different from a Parliament?

Parliament and Funkadelic were/are two interrelated groups that were masterminded by the one and only George Clinton. Parliament started out as The Parliaments, a five man doo-wop group led by GC that included Ray Davis, Fuzzy Haskins, Grady Thomas and Calvin Simon. They started cutting records as early as 1956 but didn't achieve any real success until 1967's hit "(I Wanna) Testify." At around this time, they had picked up a band for their shows, and they were eventually dubbed "Funkadelic" by bass player Bill Nelson, to have a name with "del" in it, to have some funk in it, and to reflect the psychedelic times. GC immediately took off with this idea, and it eventually affected the way the recordings of the two bands would sound. Funkadelic albums are heavily guitar-oriented, with lots of solos and instrumental pieces. A lot of the singing was done by the band members themselves. Horns are very rarely heard, and keyboard arrangements were mostly used for fills and melody. Parliament, on the other hand, was used as the main outlet for the five singers. Lots of doo-wop and gospel-influenced vocals, resulting in some beautiful, if occasionally bizarre, harmonies. Horns are prominently heard, with the occasional solo (Mothership Connection almost sounds like a jazz album at times). Keyboards and bass are the dominant instruments, with the guitars being left to drive the riffs. By the time the late 70's hit and the bands had four # 1 singles between them, the two groups started to sound more and more alike, especially when all of the splinter groups started up and everyone recorded stuff for them. The music became less rock oriented and more dance oriented, though at a very high standard in general. See below on the history of P.Funk for more details, and the political evolution of the lyrics.

Date: Sun, May 26, 2002, 15:32:28
Posted by: 1 der Waiyf,

Getting caught up on more stuff here.

The thing with female bassists reminded me of something else. How few women Jazz insttrumentalists there are. If you are a woman in jazz, it seems like you get stuck only on vocals. Seeing Alice Coltrane get mentioned by Hoops reminded me that Alice is an instrumentalist/musician but there aren't nearly as many as men. Or proportionately, as many women players in rock. Some may say Diana Krall is about looks. I disagree. She's a talented musician. Granted she's maybe not as earthshattering on the keys as Dave Brubeck, Herbie Hancock, Horace Silver, or Red Garland, but she holds her own.

StAl, Hoops; We're not imagining it. As an MS Exchange server engineer for a Fortune 500, I know that we are getting exponentially much more SPAM than last year at this time. True, E-mail harvesting is one way to collect E-mail addresses, but that is last year's method and becoming passe. Anymore, obfuscation can help but not that much. It plugs one hole, but there are more that are much larger. Today, the most popular method of generating SPAM E-mail lists are specialized E-mail daemons that guestimate E-mail addresses and then keep the ones that work. This problem will grow bigger until better filters are developed and users are empowered to use them. Some of this is already happening at the firewall level. We also need better legislation which can at least slow down the growth of SPAM. ("I'm for tough Legislation...thanks for calling...I wait all night for calls like these.") Unfortunately, that can only help domestically since SPAM is an international problem. The SPAM pimps will move to Korea or Bermuda or somewhere that doesn't have those laws. I got a new Hotmail account (to see what it was like) and turned off the default preference to "share my E-mail." I still was spammed within a day before I even sent E-mail to anyone else besides my work account. Obfuscation is like plugging your finger in a crack in the dam.

Still, "nice" to see the Bush administration and Congress not care about this or all those annoying phone soliciations. At least, why can't some of the SPAM or phone calls ask if I want to buy Steely Dan t-shirts? Meantime, we are stuck.

Date: Sun, May 26, 2002, 14:43:12
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale,

Sean ,the difference between Parliament and Parliament/Funkedelic...now that's a story.
Here's a site where it is all explained:
http://www.duke.edu/~tmc/pfunk.html

have fun,
Ayanna

Date: Sun, May 26, 2002, 00:49:04
Posted by: Sean, Quincy, MA

Sam, Larry Klein was Mr. Joni Mitchell for a time. They were friends for even longer and still continue their creative relationship. But above all else, Larry Klein is to bass what Dean Parks is to guitar. He's a session player behind all the big names, except oddly enought, never with Steely Dan.

Tony Levin is similar in status although I think he is best known as a disciple of Jaco. Tony plays fretless, I think.

Speaking of which, they had a skit on SNL tonight where Jack Black and some guy were having a "bass off".

What's the differenence between Parliament and Parliament/Funkadelic? I always think of that song, "Flashlight." Good observation about Fagen's "Springtime" having the James Brown horn thing going. Kama is a funk album for brainiacs.

I saw So and Shaking the Tree re-releases and was disappointed to find that the artwork for the albums has been changed in the re-releases, although they have both digipak and jewelbox versions. The artwork tries to make them all look like a set of CDs rather than the individual albums they once were.

Sean

Date: Sat, May 25, 2002, 19:21:07
Posted by: W1P,

Josephine Wiggs -- Cannonball one of the best bass lines in history The Breeders

Date: Sat, May 25, 2002, 16:00:24
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale,

Hey Mr.Sam
I love PARLIAMENT...I mentioned them here a few weeks back and was ignored.
Oh well...

Welcome to station W.E.F.U.N.K
better known as WEFUNK
or deeper still the MOTHERSHIP CONNECTION
home of the extraterriesterial brothers
dealers of funky music
P-FUNK
UNCUT FUNK
THE BOMB!!!

Date: Sat, May 25, 2002, 11:42:47
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Of all EWF horn arrangements, I'd strongly recommend/propose "Magic Mind" as the best (on the All n All album). Probably used overdubs -- but what's wrong with that? A really hot song and an overlooked EWF gem IMO.

Went to an EWF concert (with my kids) a few years back and it was great to get back to a positive, mixed-race atmosphere with great music. Wish Maurice White's spirit could influence some of today's hip-hoppers.

Philip Bailey was phenomenal...

Date: Sat, May 25, 2002, 05:23:32
Posted by: DrMu, Tejas

Mr. Same et al.: I'm am ot afraid to admit that the Bangles were the better of the 80s girl groups. The bassist was not Suzanna Hoffs, or the Peterson sisters, but the other one - Annette Zilinskas.

EWF - the Elements, baby. Can't Hide Love, That's the Way of the World, great arrangements The put on a helluva live show in the 70s

Peter Gabriel: 3 (melt), Security, and So are as fine a string of consecutive albums outside Steely Dan or Stevie Wonder. So may be the last great album to reach No 1 in the charts? ...except The Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby...jeez, never thought of that before... How are the new remasters of the Gabriel collection, released May 7th?

Date: Sat, May 25, 2002, 00:55:56
Posted by: Mr. Sam, Maryland

Pivotal Pete: Couldn't agree more about Larry Graham. I would've listed him first go round, but I didn't know his name, and felt too sheepish to just call him "the guy from S&TFS". "I wanna take you higher!..." Also, please forgive me for overlooking Sir Paul. The man is a songwriting god, and one helluva bassist.

Dave: What's not to like about Peter Gabriel? "The Lamb Lies Down. . .", "Salsbury Hill" (sic?), "Games without Frontiers", "Shock the Monkey", "In Your Eyes", "Biko", "Big Time", "Sledgehammer", "Red Rain", "Don't Give Up", . . . All top notch tunes. The man has a definite sense of groove, pop sensibility, and (gasp!) something to say.

Glad to hear the faithful making mention of EWF. Earth, Wind, & Fire is definitely amongst the best that the 70's had to offer. IMHO, their horn arrangements rivaled those of the Dan, Chicago, and Blood, Sweat, & Tears. "Reasons", "That's the Way of the World", "Sing a Song", "Can't Hide Love", "September", "Got to Get You Into My Life", etc. Scrum-dilly-umptious!! Great songwriting, killer arrangements, and wonderful attention to detail. Those guys rocked, and, as Sinbad's Summer Soul Jam from a few years ago proved, they are/were also a jaw-dropping live act. Hard to believe that Phillip Bailey still has that sweet and vibrant falsetto working for him after all these years.

Question, though, Dave: Who are Tony Levin and Larry Klein?

1 der Waiyf: Famous women bassists, huh? That's a tough one. How about the bassist from the Bangles? Don't know her name, but she earned my respect and admiration from her work on "Hazy Shade of Winter" and "Walk Like an Egyptian" alone.

In all honesty, though, you don't see too many female bassists in the pantheon of popular music. Perhaps, it's a range (ie, inner voice) thing or an issue of physical strength (ie, takes a little more muscle to wield a bass than a six-string, a violin, a flute, or a piano.)

Also, and again, pardon my ignorance, but who is Herbie Flowers?

Finally, while we're on the subject of funk, I'd like to proffer a few more masters of funk for your consideration: Stevie Wonder, Mr. Billy Preston ("the 5th Beatle"), and Parliament.

First, Stevie Wonder. "Superstition", "Boogie on Reggae Woman", "Higher Ground", "I Wish", "Sir Duke", "You Haven't Done Nothin'", etc. How can any discussion of funk be complete without mention of this music legend? He hit it big early (like Michael Jackson), but managed to avoid self-destructing in the process. He is, quite simply, an amazing amalgam of musicianship and artistic vision.

Billy Preston's credits speak for themselves: "Nothin from Nothin", "Will It Go Round in Circles", "Outta-Space", "Struttin'", and, of course , "Get Back".

And, finally, for the uninitiated, there is George Clinton & Parliament/P-Funk All-Stars. These guys were all but ignored by "AOR stations" in the 70's, but don't let that fool you. Get yourself a copy of the their greatest hits, and judge for yourself. They oozed funk from every pore, and threw down some of the greatest jazz-inflected harmonies that the 70's or any period since has had to offer. Most of you have probably heard "Tear the Roof Off the Sucker (Give Up the Funk)" and "Flashlight", but there is definitely much more to this 40 member stage extravaganza than a scant two top-40 hits would suggest.

That is all. Over & out.
Have a great holiday weekend all!

Humbly,
Mr. Sam

Date: Fri, May 24, 2002, 21:17:44
Posted by: Dave,

How about Tony Levin and Larry Klein? Wasn't one of the women in B-52s a bass player?

Bought some of the new Peter Gabriel Remasters. Incredible musician. The emotion and starkness of it all is amazing. Does the remastered version of "So" really have a different track listing than the original? Any other Gabriel fans out there?

Easy to see why he had the khutspe to leave the other nudniks of Genesis.

Dave.

Date: Fri, May 24, 2002, 20:40:35
Posted by: 1 der Waiyf, again

Oh , yes, those ARE wonderful male bassists. Jaco is my favorite of the men. How about Herbie Flowers? And how about our very own Walter Becker?

Date: Fri, May 24, 2002, 20:38:33
Posted by: 1 der Waiyf,

I meant to say " what other famous WOMEN rock, blues and jazz bassists can you name?" .

1. the Taste of Honey bassist (name?)

2. Tina Weymouth of Talking Heads, Tom Tom Club and The Heads

Any others?

Date: Fri, May 24, 2002, 19:48:06
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Two other bassists to add:

1- Larry Graham of Sly & TFS. Have heard him credited with being the first real funk/bass player. And he SANG the bass parts, too!

2- Paul McCartney. His bass parts ADD to the songs while most other bass parts of that era that I recall were just part of the "rhythm" section. (Jazz bass solos excepted ... yawn)

Very interesting for me as a newcomer to this list to see some of my favorite artists BESIDES Steely Dan being mentioned-- like EWF, Ohio Players, and Heat Wave.

A Heat Wave esoteric add-on that some may know (kind of related to all the great SD background vocals): One of HW's members (who I assume arranged the vocals for Boogie Nights) was Rod Temperton. Rod later did other great (IMO) vocal arrangements for George Benson ("Give Me the Night" & others) and Michael Jackson (pre the total weird-out phase -- Off the Wall).

Date: Fri, May 24, 2002, 17:56:34
Posted by: Mr. Sam, Maryland

Bass Players Extradinaire (some funky, some not so funky): Chuck Rainey, Bootsy Collins (of Parliament & P-Funk Allstars fame), Jaco Pastorius, Chris Squire, John Entwistle, & Stanley Clarke.

Howard: Thanks for the lead on YGT II tabs. Know where I can trade my fingers on a set that are capable of pulling off that solo?

Date: Fri, May 24, 2002, 16:54:31
Posted by: 1 der Waiyf,

Mu, Wow, Even before the vocal "whoawhoohoha" intro on "Boogie Nights, " I remember 30-60 secs of just this spacey Alice Coltrane-like harp. Then joined by a jazz guitar and this hip drums. Hadn't thought of that in years.

Speaking of Taste of Honey and their bass, what other famous rock, blues and jazz bassists can you name.

I came up with

1. the Taste of Honey bassist (name?)
2. Tina Weymouth of Talking Heads, Tom Tom Club and The Heads.

Funk discussion and no mention of James Brown? "Springtime" smacks of Brown.

Date: Fri, May 24, 2002, 16:48:55
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale,

I LOVE Boogie Nights(especially the intro and outro).
Always and Forever I could do without.

Date: Fri, May 24, 2002, 16:33:01
Posted by: sharkdeville, yowie!

hey all-
i realize it's short notice, but if any of you are in the Jax, FL area, I'll be playing pedal steel (you know, that whiny thing Jeff Baxter plays on "Razor Boy" and "Pearl of the Quarter", etc...) TONITE w/ the Buenos Aires at a club called Jackrabbits.
No Steely Dan covers, it's all originals... you might describe the music as "moody pop".
Just a heads-up!

Date: Fri, May 24, 2002, 16:01:15
Posted by: DrMu, Tejas

Wow: Boogie Nights had a heck of a open space-funk intro with vocals (Boooogie Nights...whoaaawhoaawhoooahh) before sequeing into a massive bassline, then verse one...

Date: Fri, May 24, 2002, 11:40:30
Posted by: Cosmic Wow,

Hey everyone

This talk of Funk, bass and Taste of Honey reminding me of Heat Wave the interracial disco funk band from the UK. They had hits with this funky tune, Boogie Nights and the popular ballad, Always and Forever. Boogie Nights may have stock disco lyrics but it had quite the groove. And then it had this really cool jazz intro. Forget the lyrics and live for the groove. That's why I think Heatwave, Earth Wind and Fire, Tavares and others meant so much for inner city youth looking for respite. A couple of years ago, my daughter's senior class used Always and Forever as their prom song and theme. Not sophisticated like Steely Dan but perfect for this situation. Amazing that it means so much more than 20 years later.

I gotta side with those who don't leave their address on boards. I just don't need more spam.

What is Denny Dias up to these days? I heard that he played at an L.A. Dan show in 93, but he's a computer programmer otherwise. Does he do music anymore? Was he at the Grammys?

Hi kd, Oleander, Hoops

What songs do a band named Hot Butter do for a followup single? Baked Potato? Pancake? Asparagus? Voluptuous Babe (Covered In)? No wonder they only had one hit. Maybe they intended it that way.

Adrian Belew has this great album from the 80's funny version of I'm Down that's different from the Beatles version. My ex-girlfriend never gave me the album back. Can't remember the name to buy it again. Damn her!


WoW

¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸

Date: Fri, May 24, 2002, 08:31:33
Posted by: Howard,

Sam - yes, it's Denny Dias playing the superb solo on Gold Teeth II, and it's DF's exclamation.

Guitar tab for this great solo available from:

www.jmdl.com/howard/steelydan/tab.html

St Al - I think Denny Dias was talking about how the chords for Aja were impossible to play on a guitar, because they had tight note clusters (always tricky on the guitar) as well as widely spaced intervals. Fine if you have ten fingers and a piano, impossible on a guitar. He said that the best you could do was to pick 3 or 4 notes from the chord and play these on the guitar - you could never play the whole chord.

Nearly all of the guitar tracks on Aja are playable "for real" - I'm sure different takes were often used and stitched together, since this was their standard way of working, but at any one time you have one player on each part. There are a couple of harmony parts (Brian May style) that have three simaltaneous guitar overdubs, but apart from that it's single parts.

Howard

Date: Fri, May 24, 2002, 02:58:11
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, Chi

Sorry for being scarce.

Sam,

Denny Dias played that brilliant solo, and that was TV's Donald Fagen cheering him on.

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 23:57:48
Posted by: Mr. Sam, Maryland

Does anybody know who played that incredible guitar solo on "Your Gold Teeth II"? I was just listening to a well-circulated outtake of the song when it dawned on me that I'm totally clueless as to who the guitarist is AND who the cheerleader in the booth is. Anybody care to shed some light on the matter?

hoops: Thanks for the clarification on your previous post about Irving Azoff, REO, and the U-C connection. My bad. Don't know how I managed to misinterpret the content of your post on my first pass.

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 22:29:31
Posted by: oleander, no butter, thanks

Juan Carlos--Cool. "'Long As You Know You're Living Yours" is also available in its original context on Jarrett's "Belonging" ('74), which is still available.

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 22:11:51
Posted by: W1P, wch1ispink@aol.com

Wasn't "Popcorn" by Hot Butter? Hey, nice Whisky poster! You can tell its authentic because it doesn't have an "e" in Whisky! Chik a Boom, Chik a Boom, doncha just love it?

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 21:55:53
Posted by: Nathan Einsig,

You all might be interested in this. There is an online and airwave radio broadcast right now featuring non-stop Jaco Pastorius tunes. It is originating from Harvard's college station WHRB. you can listen online by logging on to http://www.whrb.org/pg then click on "Regular Feed". The big thing about this broadcast is that it will feature several never-hear-before tracks from the upcoming "Jaco The Early Years" boxed set. The boxed set which was delayed several times should release in a few weeks (they are dding some Jaco Herbie Hancock material and interviews).

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 21:42:28
Posted by: HeyMike, Chicago Burbs

Hi Patty, I saw that poster on ebay a while back..(must be several of them) seemed trumped up to me. for one thing an actual concert poster would not have the year on it. I know he says he makes them from actual shows. but i had to wonder. (i did buy the small handbill from 74 or so and I see it on the all the time since!!)

HeyMike

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 21:28:03
Posted by: hoops,

Ohio Express was, if I am correct, a one-hit. wonder. They were bubblegum along the lines of Strawberry Alarm Clock and The Archies. I'm not aware of any other hit aside from "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy." As long as we are talking late 60s/early 70s novelty items, who did "Popcorn," that primitive computer instrumental that was a hit?

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 21:14:22
Posted by: Patty,

Hi!

Wanted to share this. I bought it from eBay.

--Patty (of Naked Lunch)

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 20:00:38
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale,

Hoops:I don't think I'm familiar with Ohio Express...

And since we appreciate funk around these parts,I found a thought-provoking and weird essay a few weeks ago that you guys might find intersting:
http://www.soul-patrol.com/funk/lee_at.htm

Especially if you're into conspiracies...

Ayanna

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 19:26:17
Posted by: hoops@dandom.com,

Well, I guess three of us were telepathically writing about the same thing at the same time, as I found Fr. Williams and Pat's posts when I returned from writing my own post on the topic. :-)

That said, through my informal tests, the gibberish "leeches", etc. do an OK but not perfect job of protecting your email.

See the rest below, blah, blah, blah.

h

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 19:13:53
Posted by: hoops,

This guestbook and website employee a couple of methods to deflect spiders and crawlers collecting email addresses. While there is no foolproof method for deflecting these bots, this helps significantly. Still, feel free to either enter your email address with the words NOSPAM or something (like hoops@NOSPAM.dandom.com) or leave off the last com. Or, feel free to just register your email with me privately. An email address is only requested so that is there is a problem with your post, you can be contacted about it.

In a Thursday NY Times "Circuits" section, they had an article about how quickly new email addresses that have never even been used before are added to SPAM lists. There are now programs that will, for example, try every word in the dictionary and append ISP and host names. Then it removes the addresses that result in return messages. So this NY Times author wrote about how quickly his fresh email was picked up by SPAM bots. And, yes, you are not imagining things, SPAM is up dramatically since last summer, largely due to "evolving" methods. (I put that in quotes since I hate to think of this as positive evolution.)

"Please Make Mine A Double Sam": Yes, REO was from Champaign, (check out a post before yours), they were one of Irving Azoff's first acts, as I understand it. Anyhow, read a few posts before yours and you will see.

I think I've said enough on the boots thing for now…do compare the shades of grey between audience recordings and taking someone's private working copies and making them public.

I finally remembered..."Ohio EXPRESS," not "Ohio Players." What is so wrong with Ohio Express…well, for starters, can't think of any other song they have done.

The whole OHIO PLAYERS thread reminded me of the summer of 1978, when as a teenager, I began paying more attention to bass and The Funk. Specifically, two recordings stand out in my mind as being so obvious that I had to notice. The Rolling Stones' "Some Girls" album has this bass that really got my attention as never before ("Miss You, "Beast of Burden," etc). And another was this femme duo, Taste of Honey with this Disco number, "(Get down) Boogie Oogie Oogie." Yeah, the lyrics were the usual lame disco fare, but it had this incredible bass rift and I think it was the first time this kid noticed a funky bass as the lead. The ladies' vocals were damn great, if you ignored that they were very typical Disco lyrics. (Hey, sure, Mingus, Jaco and so many others were there, but I had not progressed to an awareness of them yet.) And then there was Nile Rodgers and Chic with really great bass. So I know I'm not catching Ray Charles and Duke Ellington's drift on only "good and bad music" since there are some things that are good on the Taste of Honey ditty and some aspects that I really don't care for.

Elton John's "I Don't Wanna Go On With You Like That" is the same way for me. I think it sucks as Bernie Taupin's lyrics are banal, if not absurd, and the storyline and music are basically a retread of EJ's 1970 song, "The Cage" with 1988-era production. But I had the opportunity to hear that recording with just Elton and his keyboard isolated. Nevermind the lyrics, song and final production—the performance on both vocals and keys are amongst his best.

Got Van Morrison's new one, "Down The Road." Some of it is excellent but a lot of it is also Van repeating himself way too much. Through the 1980s, I loved almost everything Van put out. Then at track 9 on 1990's "Enlightenment," Van makes this sharp turn into inconsistency and hit or miss, that has continued ever since. Ever since, his albums have had some great high-points of genius, as well as some clichéd moments or whole songs that he should have thought twice about. At it's best, I think the tracks on "Down the Road" revisit the albums, "Tupelo Honey" ("What Makes The Irish Heart Beat") and in general, "His Band and The Street Choir." And, of all the influences Van name drops most, it is Ray Charles. Here he covers "Georgia on My Mind," the Hoagy Carmichael song that Ray made his own.

For me, the high-points of his 1990s work was the title track off of "Days Like This," and above all else, this amazing melding of doo whop, gospel and Coltrane that was the title track on "The Healing Game." (He also has a few, really great alternate versions of "The Healing Game" as well, one with John Lee Hooker.)

Enought indulgent ranting on my part—see why I don't want to put something like the above in the Digest?

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 18:51:54
Posted by: StAl, Seattle

Father William: Is that a question or a statement? If its a question, then allow me to answer...

YES!

E-mail addresses are harvested from any open forum like this. Any email address posted to any static web page is subject to harvesting by those nasty spammers. In the yellow book FAQ I cover this topic and suggest people mask their email address whenever they post to a guestbook, bulletin board or any other Internet forum. In the redesign of the Banyan Tree website, I've used a technique called obfuscation whenever I link to my email address. For more information on this process, go here:

http://www.pc-help.org/obscure.htm

Or, to see what your actual email address looks like when obfuscated go here:

http://www.manastungare.com/asp/preventspam.asp

Bottom line, NEVER EVER post your real address to an Internet forum without utilizing some form of masking. As an example, look at the link to my email in this post. As webmasters we really have no control over those pesky harvest bots.

StAl

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 18:36:53
Posted by: father william,

Errata: Do the email addresses get posted here? should be
Do email addresses get harvested from here>

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 14:59:34
Posted by: father william,

I've even received one Nigerian scam email message addressed to me in my Steely Dan board alias. Do the email addresses get posted here? YES!

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 14:50:23
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

Oh yes, and I would say that since I started posting this other email address that I have started to receive more spam than usual. So I can at least see that there is good reason not to post it. However, if it's there once, it's probably there forever.

Earl

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 14:45:14
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

St. Al - There's probably not a whole lot of difference between the looping and sampling that rap artists do and the endless tweaking that the Dan has done with their albums. The main difference is that the people playing the instruments in SD's material get credit and are really playing them. Rap artists steal material, burying the credit in a spot where it rarely gets seen. I like the layered sound of Steely Dan...I think it would be difficult to mesh 3 or 4 guitar parts into one take and have them sound as intended. I believe that live the band members could play any lick they need to, and it would sound great. But the difference is that we might not have the discerning ear that D+W have.

I have been struggling with this topic for quite some time. Why do I find it appalling when bands like 'N Stink sound so contrived, whereas I consider it acceptable for SD to contrive their music in much the same way? Oh well, I guess I need to take the music for what it's worth.

Earl

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 14:40:52
Posted by: DrMu,

St.Al: I protest that the line is very clear. The punch-in is NOT analogous to the sample. Dias and Dan (as an entitiy) CREATED their runs that became punch-ins. The artists wrote and arranged them. In contrast, not only do the large majority hip-hoppers steal pieces of OTHERS' compositions, but their performances as well...

Remember how indignant Coolio was when Weird Al made a parody (Amish Paradise) of Gangsta Paradise?...which of course is a rip-off of a much better recording: Pastime Paradise by Stevie Wonder from the classic Songs in the Key of Life...at least Weird Al's band played their own instruments, accordion and all...

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 13:44:36
Posted by: philippe poudensan, france

"After the love has gone" was on the "I am" album by EWF and Jay Graydon won a Grammy for that one. It was originaly recorded for the only album Airplay ever recorded. Airplay was Jay and David Foster's group plus a few studio cats like Jeff Porcaro for example. The original version of After the love has gone had a fine guitar solo by Jay. The cd was reissued a few years ago in Japan and I think they have some copies left at www.melodyblvd.com for those interested.
By the way, the 2 Eye to eye cd's are reissued again, both were produced by Gary Katz and had Donald playing on them. In those days of no musical production by the dynamic duo ( not mentionning the outtakes I just had the time to listen to unfortunatly)it can be of some interest to those who never heard them. I would describe their music as some happy Rosie Vela!
Waiting for the outtakes to surface again one day.
Philippe

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 13:26:04
Posted by: StAL, Seattle

Stopped by for a quick look and saw this discussion on taping and figured I'd post my $.02.

Taping most definitely can help establish a band. It's been proven time and time again. Some very successful artists built their fan base using this method. The Grateful Dead and Phish are probably to two biggest examples of very successful artists that acknowledge their taping policies were pivotal in their development. Pearl Jam will acknowledge their taping policy helped sustain the bands relevance. The whole punk movement was built on this.

However, one of the biggest benefits for someone who collects live recordings is hearing the differences between performances -- set lists, song arrangements, etc. For instance, I have 3 different recordings of the Dead playing "Cold Rain and Snow" spanning 3 different decades. Each version is completely different.

And herein lies one of the problems with Steely Dan allowing taping. Their shows hardly vary from night to night. The differences are subtle and the setlist hardly changes. Steely Dan simply isn't a band who would benefit from an open taping policy. Thank god, for this is one of the things I like about Steely Dan. Sure, I've said it a number of times in the past that I wish they'd improvise more with those fantastic bands they assemble, but I also appreciate the control and precision they maintain in their music. Unlike bands like Phish and (especially) The Grateful Dead, you're always guaranteed a wonderful experience with expert musicianship and very few mistakes. Tough to do considering the complexity of the music.

I am an avid trader of music, however I own very few Steely Dan bootlegs compared to what's available. I figure one or two good ones from each tour is enough. The point is taping often helps build a fan base. It's a fact. And, at times, this policy allows some bands to become even more "popular" than our beloved Steely Dan. But it just doesn't fit every band and I don't believe it would *help* Steely Dan at all. As if they need it...

Gene: I still don't think W1P was comparing Keneally to SD. Also, I know this won't be a popular statement, but I question your comment that Steely Dan is one of the most influential in the history of Rock and Roll. Influential yes, but one of the *most*? Sometimes I think our zealous love for this band, or any band, clouds reality. I'd venture to say one of the reasons why Steely Dan was given the stiff-arm by the Hall Of Fame for so long is many believe what Steely Dan does is the antithesis of Rock And Roll. For some Rock and Roll means The Stones or The Ramones (about as opposite in style from SD as you can get). And, I might add, both of those artists are undeniably some of the most influential and I HATE the Ramones.

Wasn't it Denny Dias who stated in The Making of Aja that one of the guitar parts was impossible for any one player to play -- that it was assembled using 2 or 3 different takes from different artists? What's so different about that, than what the Hip Hop artists do?

Oooh, now THAT one is likely to draw some fire! I'm not comparing SD to ANY Hip Hop artist, just comparing methods.

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 12:59:54
Posted by: DrMu,

After the Love is Gone was written by Jay Graydon with help from Bill Champlin and David Foster

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 11:55:25
Posted by: Steveedan, Up all night in my studio and up early on my ranch

DrMu -

which song did Jay Graydon write for Earth, Wind and Fire?

Thanks


Steveedan

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 11:08:05
Posted by: DrMu, never post after midnight

That should be Can't Hide Love...

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 02:40:46
Posted by: DrMu,

Forgot to mention that Sweet Sticky Thing is a Favorite featuring some tasty horns and Walter-like guitar runs...

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 02:30:17
Posted by: DrMu, Tejas

The cover of Honey is why God invented LP jackets...

To dovetail into Gaslighting Abbie - THAT's the little bitty purty one heah. D&W put the 50s bop on top of an Ohio Players funk/Stax rhythm section groove like Fire. Earth, Wind and Fire were experts at fusing slow (ex Can't find Love) or fast funk with jazz in the 70s...and we all know Jay Graydon wrote their biggest hit...

Date: Thurs, May 23, 2002, 02:00:51
Posted by: Steveedan, Los Angeles, California

I would like to very humbly say that I think it would be best to be kind and mature when posting here. Then it would not matter whether you could reach the person privately or through posting here.

Earl - It is true that Norm de Plume did leave his actual e-mail address in his first post here. I was able to reach him directly and we have met. Leave "Norm" alone. He is one of the good guys. He just didn't know that no one had heard those Gaucho out takes. He had absolutely no idea that things would get so crazy over those tracks. It was like a shark feeding frenzy. All of the accusations about him, his motives, and etc. had gotten way out of hand. I am actually surprised that he has continued to post here, and this site is the more tame, mature and germane (sp?) one to the topic of Steely Dan. So Earl, please take the high road. I will if you will, OK?

Mr. Sam - I have a Larry Carlton video showing Terry Trotter on keyboards. Also, on Carlton's live CD entitled Last Night, Trotter plays fantastically. There is a part in one of the songs during one of his solos where he plays this lead line with one hand (nothing unusual about that), then he plays a similar line with both hands at lightning fast speed. Truly impressive work. My brother takes piano lessons from Terry. Terry currently (and for the past few years) has been Natalie Cole's piano player and musical director. He goes all over the world with her. Many years ago, Terry used to work with Steve Lawrence and Edie Gorme. I went to school with their son, who despite the fame and fortune of his famous parents, was one of the nicest guys I have ever met. He's a very talented guy in his own right.

Juan Carlos - That Keith Jarrett song is great. You can hear a closer comparison with the Jarrett song and the Gaucho demo. I've posted about this song a number of times in the past. I'm glad Jarrett "reissued" that song because, it deserves to be heard. Thanks for mentioning it.

And to the members of the Chicago-based Katy Lied band ... I am glad that you guys are playing a lot now. You provide a great service to a very deserving public. Just remember, it takes one to know one ... keep up the good work.

Pretzel Logic kicks off its inaugural gig in Los Angeles at Paladino's on Saturday July 27th.

Hoops - thanks again for all that you do for all of us. Take care y'all.

Steve C. (Bandleader, Musical Director, and keyboard man for Pretzel Logic)

Date: Wed, May 22, 2002, 19:46:47
Posted by: Peg, da Natti of Cin Cin

Hoops -- Adrian Belew lives here in town -- I just saw him about a year ago at a musicians' forum. He told us stories about playing with Zapppa. Never knew he was so big until I met a drummer who flipped when I told him I had seen him...Hope your friend recovered from that fight.
As for funk-a-mania -- Ohio Players are from up the road in Dayton, I have been told. And Bootsy Collins is from Cincinnati, and was recently in the papers (huge-a-mongous star-shaped sunglasses and all) recently promoting a CD...This area is good for funky music. Uh!

Date: Wed, May 22, 2002, 19:10:54
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale,

Hoops:My favorite Ohio Players....Skin Tight,Sweet Sticky Thing and I Want To Be Free.

Ayanna

Date: Wed, May 22, 2002, 18:51:24
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Ohio Players were, without a doubt, a FUNK band. Pre-Disco all the way. Not quite as far-out as the George Clinton constellation of bands and artists, but they did some great stuff.

Their biggest hit: "Rollercoaster of Love," which is now on some TV commercial. Others: "Fire" and "Skin Tight"

My fave from OPs: "I Want to be Free." Slow and easy but with so much "groove" the bass line just gets you in the gut.

Date: Wed, May 22, 2002, 14:32:41
Posted by: Duncan,

Cheers Hoops !!!!

Date: Wed, May 22, 2002, 11:04:53
Posted by: norm, going home

I'll agree with you there. It's pretty lame when people say nasty things on BBS boards and don't leave a way for others to contact them. Of course, people who pick fights on the Internet aren't the bravest souls in the world - otherwise, they'd do it with people face-to-face. But for those who just pop in to post friendly messages or questions, it's possible that they simply don't wish to be contacted privately. For them a response on the board is enough, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as things remain civil.

Take it easy,

n

Date: Wed, May 22, 2002, 10:39:05
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

Nom - I wasn't speaking directly about you, but I think that it takes 2 seconds to type in an email address. There should be nothing to hide on this board; if a person has a problem w/ someone, take credit for it instead of hiding.

Earl

Date: Wed, May 22, 2002, 09:42:55
Posted by: norm, at work

One other thing, Earl: Although you do have a valid point about people posting impolite messages and not leaving their e-mail addresses, none of that was from me, so don't include me in your little complaint. Thank you.



Juan Carlos - that's cool news. Didn't Becker & Fagen have to give Jarrett co-writing credit for the song Gaucho as part of his lawsuit with them?

Date: Wed, May 22, 2002, 09:10:02
Posted by: Juan Carlos,

Amigos: Anyone notice that this week Keith Jarrett released a CD called "rarum" which collects tracks he hand-picked from his catalog, such as songs he feels were underappreciated. One of the tunes he picked was "Long as You Know You're Living Yours". For those not familiar, this is the tune which heavily influenced the tune "Gaucho" and led to the lawyers, guns and money, etc etc. in the early '80s. Makes for an interesting comparison with the piano on the "new" outtake with an instrumental version of Gaucho!! Ciao.

Date: Wed, May 22, 2002, 08:25:44
Posted by: norm,

Earl - actually, my very first post here does contain my e-mail address. But this isn't all about me, is it?

Date: Wed, May 22, 2002, 08:20:55
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

I don't know about some of the others on the list, but I think the "noms de plume" and posts w/o home email addresses listed are pretty childish. We're a fan list, and we should all take credit for what we post. There's been some sniping, and the sniping seems to come from people who don't want to accept responsibility for their comments. In this day and age of the free email account (hotmail, yahoo, etc) what's the harm in obtaining an account like one these so that you can be emailed about comments made? In my opinion, all that leaving information out does is preserve a frequent poster's identity when they want to flame someone, which is stupid.

Earl

Date: Wed, May 22, 2002, 07:26:54
Posted by: casey,

Mr. Sam - thanks for the correction. Until next time, keep your feet on the ground, and keep reaching for the stars.

Date: Wed, May 22, 2002, 02:43:02
Posted by: (Please make mine a double) Sam, Maryland

Casey K: Just for the record, the Commodores recorded "Brick House", not the Ohio Players.

hoops: Adrian Belew & Alison Krauss? Wow! I never imagined that U-C has such a storied musical past. (Didn't REO also hail from the U-C area? Their later power ballad persona was, to be sure, a bit sappy, but "Golden Country" and some of the "You Can Tune a Piano, But You Can't Tuna Fish" material was quite good IMHO.)

Gotta love how tangential Zappa references continue to surface on this board. Hearing mention of Adrian's name is definitely making me itch for a few verses of "Flakes" and "Bobby Brown Goes Down" about now.

And, this just in from the Seven Degrees of Steely Dan department: . . . Has anybody noticed that the "Everybody Loves Raymond Theme" was written by Rick Marotta and Terry Trotter? [I'm sure that everybody here knows of Rick's work with the Dan. Terry's name may be lesser known, though. He is one degree removed from SD having performed as Larry Carlton's keyboardist on a number of albums.]

Last but not least, if anyone in BB-land is looking to expand their jazz collection, but is having a tough time picking out titles, let me highly recommend "Free For All" by Art Blakey & the Jazz Messengers. This album contains four killer tracks of highly melodic, propulsive jazz from 1964. Blakey's ensemble in this incarnation of the the Jazz Messengers includes Wayne Shorter (on tenor sax), Freddie Hubbard (on trumpet), Curtis Fuller (on trombone), Cedar Walton (on piano), Reginald Workman (on bass), and, of course, Art Blakey (on drums). This classic Blue Note album is distributed through Capitol Records.

If there are any other Jazz Messenger fans lurking out there, can you recommend any other titles?

Mister Sam

Date: Tues, May 21, 2002, 23:40:34
Posted by: casey kasem,

Yummy Yummy Yummy was by the Ohio Express. Ohio Players did Brick House and Fire. And I'm Casey Kasem. We'll be right back.

Date: Tues, May 21, 2002, 21:02:49
Posted by: hoops,

GyspyQ.

Ohio Players are great for the most part. Funky and groove. Critics might call them disco, but I know they did it for THE GROOVE, not for Disco show. Really dug the groove on some of stuff like "Rollercoaster of Love" (For some reason their groove reminds me of Wild Cherry's which was/is also great.) Not sure if Ohio Players did it or who it was, but "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy" is a song I've grown out of, although cute, as I recall for kids. A starting place, huh?

Anywho...what's your fav Ohio Players?

h

Date: Tues, May 21, 2002, 19:06:00
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale,

uh .....Hoops what's wrong with The Ohio Players?

Ayanna

Date: Tues, May 21, 2002, 18:21:32
Posted by: hoops,

Thanks to Deninis for the heads up. Folks planning on attending should scroll below to Bob Blom's post of dates. (Sorry for the personal call out but...Dennis, look for my email.)

Thanks again for your patience with this place. Been a little shakey today but most all seems to be back.

h

Date: Tues, May 21, 2002, 17:27:04
Posted by: Dennis Shepherd, Chicago

Greetings!

We are very excited to announce the new Katy Lied shows for June and early July. We hope to see you there! The "buzz" is still lingering from the show we did on April 20th at Harry's but we can't wait to get out there and play for you again. Your enthusiasm made it a night to remember.

If you've gone to our website recently you may have noticed it is not up to date. We are having problems getting the new material uploaded to it. We are currently working to try and solve this problem so bear with us. That guitarist in the picture is not me! He doesn't even look like me. Anyway, we hope you can come to our shows and hang with us.

Best Regards,

Dennis Shepherd - Guitar - Katy Lied

Date: Tues, May 21, 2002, 14:15:09
Posted by: hoops,

Snowbound, others: again, yeah these boots exist, stupid to pretend they don't. But also not good at all to be trading them on the blue, kapich?

Justin: that's not all of the stats. Get this:
• 75% of those men over 40 who are BS fans have sex with underage girls.
• 60% of these are serving time as result
• 30% of these are religious clergy

Britney sure doesn't speak to me; yet, G-d help me, when I was a small kid—maybe three?— "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy (I got love in my tummy)" (by Ohio Players???) spoke majorly to me. I quickly grew out of it and moved on, but indeed it was one of my first steps of many, many, many on the route to Daniquity.

My nieces like the Britney thing, but they are also growing out of it. I don't know that that's what RC and Duke had in mind with their quotes, but perhaps it is. I think there is something to be gotten from all music. And of course, a lot of country music tells me about the ignorant side of America.

Grammys and Hall of Fame or not, clearly the artists have their own preferences, beliefs and rules about boots and taping. Their contract with record companies also impacts their official policies while perhaps not their unofficial policies. All of that has an impact. Grateful Dead were very boot friendly, although they have some exceptions and qualifications. Van Morrison gets nuts and will walk off stage and not come back if he sees a recorder in the audience. Van took the most popular bootlegs circa 1992 and pressed them as bonus tracks to his CD singles. His belief was that it would make the boot copies worthless.

W1P and someone else asked about Wilco. Wilco is from Urbana which is where I've just about moved from. But Chicago (Irving Woods neighborhood) is my hometown and where I am in the slow process of relocating to. That mostly boring info aside, Wilco is OK, but I haven't bought any CDs by them. Interesting piece in a Champaign-Urbana paper recently about how a key band member has left. Have never heard them live in Chicago or downstate Illinois. As if you don't know, the two towers on their new album are Marina City at 300 N State in Chicago. At the base of these towers is the Chicago House of Blues.

Other musicians/bands/etc from Urbana include Bluegrass artist Alisson Kraus and Adrian Belew. But of interest to us Dan fans is that Urbana is where long time SD associate Irving Azoff got started in the music biz. His first two artists were Dan Fogelberg and (shudder) REO Speedwagon. Never have met Kraus. I first met Adrian Belew when I with one of my drinking buddies at Mabel's, a now-closed night club that was THE great club to play. My buddy was drunk and got in a fistfight with this guy that turned out to be Adrian.

Fogelberg used to play the Red Herring Coffeehouse, which is still in the basement of an old Unitarian Church and Channing-Murray Foundation. The Red Herring remains virtually unchanged from then to this day. It's very much a basement with a low ceiling that's maybe 7'6" high and walls that are brick, stones, etc., painted, with a small platform right in a corner as a stage. You go down an old outside stairwell at the back of the church to get in. Right next door is the house where I attended a party and experienced my Steely Dan epiphany during "My Old School" into "Bodhisattva"—on Saffer Court. Red Herring is maybe a block from where I worked and was were I would have lunch often—great but unpretentious vegetarian haute cuisine. So Azoff would work with acts that played the Red Herring.

One other funny piece of trivia about Azoff is that his hometown is Danville, Illinois, a blue collar town on the IL/IN border about 30 miles east of Urbana. Given his association with Steely Dan, I thought it funny that he came from Danville.

Lunch is over…back to work. Play nice, wouldja?

h

Date: Tues, May 21, 2002, 10:45:19
Posted by: ds, Chicago

Justin,

Surely someone is buying her albums and obviously it's not the 40 and over GQ readers. You read GQ? Ahh, who cares anyway.

Regarding Mike Keneally: Why does everyone measure artists by the Grammy's they've won or how many people are at a concert? What happened to the music? I'm sure MK gets much pleasure from playing his music, and playing it from the heart. His fanbase is much greater than you think (not 50 people in So Cal as someone said). He doesn't make a ton of money, but he still makes albums and is always creating, pushing the envelope, and expressing himself. Anyway, music isn't about the money, the fame, or those useless f**king Grammy's. Ask D&W where their Grammy's are. Probably collecting dust. You didn't see them stop making music when they DIDN'T win one. It's about expression. At least for some people.

Date: Tues, May 21, 2002, 08:26:11
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

The point about the music is that Mike Kenally (or whoever he is) benefits greatly from mass distribution of his bootleg stuff (I guess it's probably easy to plug into his board when there are only 5 people at the concert). SD wouldn't gain many fans from their bootleg demos...now live performances might be a different story. But I know if I were listening to some of the demos w/o previously listening to a lick of any of the studio albums I wouldn't be impressed.

So to compare a relative nobody on the music circuit (not knocking this Kinnear dude) and a relative commercial success is quite a stretch.

THanks to everyone who's posted info about the KL gigs. I hope to be able to attend the Barn. I'd call it a 50/50 chance I'll be there. If the others in my group allow me to take the rental car and drive north on Barrington to the Barn, I'll be there.

Earl

Date: Tues, May 21, 2002, 04:28:04
Posted by: Steveedan,

Hi Hoops, Norm, W1P, (and everyone else) --

I made a mistake in my post about these recently surfaced Gaucho out takes. The killer clavinet part is heard in "I Got The Bear", not "Talking About My Home".

Snowbound, e-mail me, and we can talk ... have you been to the Mojo site lately? Do ya think they miss me? Ha ha.

Now, about Mike Keneally ... I was at the May 4 show with MK and Which One's Pink?. I have seen W1P at least half a dozen times now. Pink is no longer a novelty to me. I am used to seeing them, and I have become pretty good friends with the band and with Mr. D.J. W1P does an excellent job, and that night, because their set was longer than usual, they had the opportunity to play some of Floyd's more obscure material. Everything they played was executed to perfection. I am always impressed and thououghly entertained by Which One's Pink? ... and of course by the man W1P !!!

Mike Keneally was nothing short of awesome. I got a scent of a Zappa-esque flavor from him. Keneally's band was a power quartet. Bass, drums, guitar, and Mike on guitar and keyboards ... and vocals. The muscianship exhibited by this band was stellar. Mike's rapport with the audience was graceful and masterful.

Whoever it was who posted here that Keneally was anything other than great, should find some socks and shove them in every body cavity they possess that makes sound. Schmuck. Go find your true musical heros ... N'Stink, I believe.

And yes Einstein, you misinterpreted what W1P was saying with the "taping and sharing policy" that was written at Keneally's site. But at this point I don't find your misunderstanding surprising.

(Pssssst! Dude! The world is flat ... and the sky is plaid. Tell your friends.)

Exquisitely Annoyed in Los Angeles ...

Steveedan (bandleader and Music Director for Pretzel Logic)

Date: Tues, May 21, 2002, 02:31:20
Posted by: Gene Saymanski , Long Beach, Ca

W1P: I think what "All pull together" meant was SD has been one of the most influential bands in the history of rock n roll. To compare the taping policies of an ex- Frank Zappa sideman to Steely Dan really doesn't make any sense no matter how you put it. Let's face it Dan, MK's fan base consists of 50 people who live in the Southern California area.

Date: Tues, May 21, 2002, 01:59:05
Posted by: W1P, Cleveland

Just to be clear, I wasn't making an analogy between Mike Keneally and Steely Dan. I was presenting his taping policy for purposes of thought and discussion on the issue. Oh, and by the way, how many Grammys and Rock n Roll Hall of Fame inductees are among the music greats who influenced Walt and Don? Have you forgotten the years that Walt and Don were ignored by the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame? Of course, the Grateful Dead are in the RnR Hall of Fame and their taping policy is well know. Since Grammy wins are relevant, I'm looking into the taping policies of The Starland Vocal Band and Christopher Cross.

Date: Tues, May 21, 2002, 01:11:43
Posted by: We can all pull together as a team...,

W1P- Nice try, but it sounds like you've been drinking the beers meant for those dolphins!....Let me know when MK wins 5 grammy's and gets inducted into the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame. Then, and only then, should you even consider making that analogy/comparison of MK and SD.

Date: Tues, May 21, 2002, 00:45:50
Posted by: W1P, LA

Although this is not directly on point with respect to the Gaucho session debate, I thought that the approach adopted by Mike Keneally is instructive. This is taken from Mike's website www.keneally.com (where, incidentially, he makes some nice comments about his show with Which One's Pink? on 5/4)

Official MK Taping Policy


Hi! This is Mike, and this is a newly revised (January 2002) version of the taping policy. I am grateful that so many people are excited by this music and want to share it with others. Thanks all!

Mike Keneally's Guidelines for Tapers and Traders

It is MK's policy to treat his fans with the respect they deserve (because they have such bloody good taste in music) and to encourage them to record and trade his live music. This includes both audio and video, distributed via a variety of old-tech and hi-tech means.

MK encourages the practice of prominently including, on each Keneally-related doodad produced, a notice reading "This is not an official MK/BFD product."

MK asks that if you become involved in the unofficial MK music recording/trading world, please purchase all available official Keneally music as well, when you get the chance.

MK insists that no one profit financially from the unofficial distribution of his music.

Online trading of MK music is OK, whether it be individual tracks or whole shows. Go ahead.

MK wants a copy of everything; please send a copy of each tape/video/CD/whatever you produce to Mike Keneally, PO Box 927605, San Diego, CA, 92192-7605.

If things get out of hand, MK reserves the right to change his mind about everything. OK, as you were. Thanks for reading.

Love,
Mike Keneally

Food for thought, signed W1P

Date: Mon, May 20, 2002, 23:33:58
Posted by: Justin,

ds- I think you got it all wrong when it comes to Miss.Spears's fan base.

In a recent GQ poll:

80% of Britney Spears biggest fans are males over the age of 40.

75% of those 80% have never even heard a Britney Spears song.

Enough said?

Date: Mon, May 20, 2002, 19:40:43
Posted by: snowbound, U.K.

I've got a 128kb version of Second Arrangement which sounds pretty good. This tune is, even in it's current condition my favourite track from the Gaucho sessions.

Date: Mon, May 20, 2002, 18:26:09
Posted by: Tyranny of the Disallowed, UK

Just have to say...the recently posted gaucho outtakes on Andy's site are superb. After all these years, these beauties surface for 48 hours - thanks Andy!

The full-band version of Kulee Baba is outstanding. Sounds like Bernard Purdie or Steve Gadd on drums, really very funky.
You Got The Bear sounds great - could have been turned into an exceptional song. Kind Spirit is interesting and grows on you.

I'd dearly love to hear a good quality version of Second Arrangement, other than the 96kbps posted on Andy's site. In my opinion, even its raw state, its one of SD's best ever songs and one I continue to day-dream that they will resurrect.

Date: Mon, May 20, 2002, 17:59:14
Posted by: ds,

Most people who like Britney Spears are under 16 years old. Do you really think they know what good music is? And does it mean it's good just because they buy it? I don't think so. It's force-fed, marketable pap. They listen to it because the media tells them it's cool to. I think Ray was talking about something much deeper than some teeny bopper shit you can get with the purchase of a 12 pack of pepsi.

Ok, I'm done. :-)

Date: Mon, May 20, 2002, 15:37:33
Posted by: Dave,

If I could ask Ray,

There's a lot of people that like Britney Spears. I guess she speaks to them. Does that make it good music?

Dave, trouble

Date: Mon, May 20, 2002, 15:34:58
Posted by: Dave,

Some might argue that Starbucks and Jazz have become the domain of yuppies. If so, 'scuse me. Otherwise, I was in Starbucks and saw this CD, "Ray Charles, Music That Matters to Him." I thought Ray played all these songs. As it turns out, they are songs by others that Ray likes. Given how Donald is so appreciative of Ray Charles, I thought I would list the songs and his commentary:

Boo Woo/Hary James
Solitude/Duke
Artie Shaw/Stardust
Sweet Lorraine/Nat Cole
How High the Moon/Art Tatum
Driftin' Blues/Charles Brown (Remember when Brown did this on New York Rock and Soul Revue Tour?)
Melancholy Baby/Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie
Sent for you Yesterday and Here you come today/Jimmy Rushing
We're all Together/Hank Jones
My Funny Valentine/Miles Davis
Mack The Knife/Ella Fitzgerald
Moanin'/Quincy Jones
Brotherhood of Man/Oscar Peterson
Mary Don't You Weep/Swan Silvertones (never heard of 'em)
Respect/Aretha, Queen of Soul (Hear of her)
Always on My Mind/Willie Nelson

Ray says in the CD booklet, "Just remember that music is all you have. As you say, you got country, you got jazz, you got classical music - all kinds of music. But Duke Ellington was right. He made one statement and it's true. When you think about it, you got many branches of music, but there's only two kinds of music in the world. There's good and bad. That's it. And it's true. It's so true. You see, you can find great music in all walks of life. You just have to take your time and really listen to it. 'specially if it's some music you're not accustomed to. Because if you find an abundance of people that like that kind of music, you can be sure it has some kind of meaning for them. It may not be your type of music, but if you really stop and analyze it, really listen to it, you can understand.

When I was picking out these songs, I looked for the lyrics. Because you've got to say in two minutes and a half what it takes a movie two-and-a-half hours to say."

Cool thoughts! Ray really has a kop oyf di pleytses!

Dave

Date: Mon, May 20, 2002, 11:16:23
Posted by: Bob Blom, of Katy Lied

- K A T Y - L I E D -
Performing the music of
STEELY DAN

Appearing at:

THE BARN in BARRINGTON, ILLINOIS
Saturday, June 8, 2002

HARRY'S OF ARLINGTON HEIGHTS, ILLINOIS
Saturday, June 29, 2002

RIBFEST in NAPERVILLE, ILLINOIS
Wednesday, July 3, 2002

More info at http://www.katylied.tv

Date: Mon, May 20, 2002, 07:25:47
Posted by: norm, (hopefully) my last word on this subject

Posted by: Steveedan,
"In my humble opinion, there's too much intense speculation regarding these recently posted and removed Gaucho out takes. I feel that the person who originally supplied these tracks to Andy and a few others had no idea what kind of an effect it would have."


This pretty much sums it up. I had no idea what effect it would have, simply because I had no idea that these recordings were so rare. That's why I came here asking about them in the first place - I mean, YOU guys are the experts, I figured you had some info on them!

Perhaps that one person's theory is right, that D+W wanted them removed because the fidelity was so much better than the tenth-generation-cassette-like outtakes already available (and which they still approve of Andy posting at his site). Perhaps they had other reasons. Either way, this whole episode is completely tainted for me by the fact that they disapprove of what happened. Not exactly the way I'd like to repay these guys for enhancing my life with their music for the last 25 years!

The really amazing thing is that I've shared this tape with several friends over the last five years, many of whom are regular traders, and somehow, none of those copies got out to the greater dandom either. It was probably only a matter of time before it did, but the fact that we've been in our own parallel universe with this stuff all this time, enjoying the tape openly with no idea that we were supposed to "hide" it, really defies all odds.

[Sidenote: one of these people is part of the Who newsgroup, and he recently came across a soundboard tape of a 1969 concert which previously existed only in a really crappy recording. As soon as he let the newsgroup know about it, the tape trees started up immediately. 500 people signed up just to be trees alone. And this is a group where Pete Townshend himself is a member. I know this guy has let a few people in on these SD tapes, so why those didn't make their way to you guys is pretty baffling.]

As for the real "culprit" here...well, my friend got it from some guy at one of the monthly record swap meet held all over LA. He never met the guy before, and hasn't seen him since, so that part will remain a mystery forever...not to mention why he didn't say anything about the tape being so rare. My friend has turned me on to plenty of things over the years, and when it's something not for sharing or trading, he always lets me know. And since he's not online, he had no idea what we had on our hands either. You can imagine his surprise when I told him about last week's events!

As hard as it may be to believe, and as much fun as conspiracy theories can be, it's really as simple as this. And I'm not Walter Becker pretending to be someone else, and I'm not Gary Katz gettng my revenge for not being asked to produce their new stuff. (Or am I? The plot thickens...)

Anyway, sorry to have dropped a bomb on all of you like this. I just hope the furor dies out soon enough. (Probably will as soon as their new one comes out...)

Date: Mon, May 20, 2002, 04:43:24
Posted by: Steveedan Steveedan,

My last post was so nice I signed it twice. ... Oops.

Date: Mon, May 20, 2002, 04:42:33
Posted by: Steveedan,

In my humble opinion, there's too much intense speculation regarding these recently posted and removed Gaucho out takes. I feel that the person who originally supplied these tracks to Andy and a few others had no idea what kind of an effect it would have. I believe that he was just a regular guy, and a devout Steely Dan fan, who just wanted to share something he had in his possession for a long time with other people whom he thought would appreciate it. I also believe that no money changed hands over this nor was such a nefarious deed contemplated. I can't tell you why it was requested, or who requested that Andy M. remove these tracks from his site. I don't think that this set of demo tracks was uniquely different from other demo tracks such as Mr. Sam, Everyone's Gone To The Movies, or the already available versions of 2nd Arrangement or Kulee Baba.

I will tell you though, that they do sound very good. Three of the tracks, Time Out Of Mind, Were You Blind That Day (which became Third World Man), and Gaucho were mostly finished tracks. The lyrics to Were You Blind That Day were radically changed to those we all know as Third World Man, Time Out Of Mind was not completed but the recorded tracks on that song sound like the actual tracks that made it to the finished product. Same goes for Gaucho, which was missing backing vocals and horns. The treat for me with Gaucho is that you could really hear the piano.

Talking About My Home has one of the most unique clavinet tracks I have ever heard. and I Got The Bear has great sections in it.

The kinks and quirks on these buried out takes remind me of some of the pre-Steely Dan material, but it is certainly superior to all of that stuff. The process that D & W go through to sweeten up their tunes (from the point in the process such as these demos) to the final released versions of the songs is one of the amazing things about hearing these demos. There is a magic in their production process that you catch a glimpse of yet there is still much mystery as to how they actually transformed songs that reached the "demo" level such as these tracks, to the "final product" level that becomes an officially released Steely Dan song.

Even if one or more of these "buried" demo tracks should end up on their next release, I still think that being able to hear the transformation would be great. I agree with whoever said it (either here or on the yellow pages at St. Al's) that the casual Dan fan would not have much interest in these demos (or any of the available demos save the live versions from past concerts). And also the devout (or should I say all-out-crazy-for-Steely Dan) fans would not only delight in getting copies of these songs for their very own, but, possessing these demo out takes would not deter any of the devout devotees from purchasing any official releases.

I doubt very highly that I am speaking only for myself when I say this.

And speaking of newly available Steely Dan material, there are new Hal Leonard song books coming out any day - just a "heads up" for the musicians who might read this.

There is simply no other band in the world like Steely Dan. D & W must know how much us Dan fanatics love their stuff ... in any form.


Steveedan

Along this line of thinking, we already do have the opportunity to hear a majority of Katy Lied in both forms, some of the Gaucho tracks, Everyone's Gone To The Movies (that one sure changed didn't it), and Jack Of Speed (from the '96 tour with Walter singing lead to the 2VN version with Donald singing lead on a slicker arrangement of the song).

We could also wonder if songs like Wetside Story, or Cash Only Island, which were played during the '96 tour might end up on the new release.

But hey, with the Dan there's always a lot to wonder about.


Steveedan

Date: Sun, May 19, 2002, 20:39:41
Posted by: Jacquie, Stripper of Speed,

I was in the store today and that same UK company that put out those Steely Dan grey-market songs as "Catalyst" has done the same to Kool and the Gang, demo versions of their songs. How low can you go?

With Steely Dan CDs remastered every few years, I also got the idea that Steely Dan CDs should be stamped with an expiration date, just like eggs, milk or diet Coke. That way people would know before listening if they are the freshest possible, or if they should throw them away and go and buy freshly mastered ones. Steely Dan CDs past their expiration date can really fuck with one's hearing and is a health hazzard. Get new ones.

Date: Sun, May 19, 2002, 20:18:39
Posted by: Jack the Ripper of Speed,

Yeah, but this bootleg thing can get out of hand like wild fire. I mean, I was shopping in Safeway today and they already had "Were You Blind That Day" as store muzak.

Date: Sun, May 19, 2002, 19:27:27
Posted by: snowbound, I was quick that day

The bootleg debate is a tough one!! On one hand whatever is the wishes of the boys is the stance i'll take. There is cases when bootlegs or illicit recordings only rip off the artist.
However these tunes on Andy's site were of great interest to me as a fanatical 'dan man.
Over the years i have probably purchased the album Aja five or six times.. vynyl to cassete to c.d.,lost copies etc.If the said tunes were available commercially i would buy them tomorrow.....i can't.

As it happens I did manage to snag "If you got the bear" and "Were you blind that day". If i'd known they were going to disappear again i would have got the rest.If anyone wants a copy,drop me a line..

Date: Sun, May 19, 2002, 19:00:43
Posted by: hoops,

Thank you to those who let me know that dandom.com was down. Obviously, it's back up.

Date: Fri, May 17, 2002, 12:55:27
Posted by: h,

I might add, "Honoring the Weasel Within" is my exciting new self-help book you can get on the shopping channel. :-)

Date: Fri, May 17, 2002, 12:47:59
Posted by: hoops,

Spin and Spirit:

Obviously Steely Dan aren't boy scouts, but I really doubt they meant for these to be out, despite the pretzel logic of record companies and lawyers.

Last June I said this when someone questioned "no-boots:"

Wanted to address the boots comment:

When the Dandom Digest was started in 1993 and until 1999, I had to use University computers for it since the Internet wasn't ubiquitous like it was today. I was also part of a copyright committee there. So that's a lot of the reason why boots were hush-hush.

But the truth is, not only are such technically "illicit" recordings a reality, they are often key to fully understanding and appreciating the work of an artist. Any good Beatles book mentions and discusses their unreleased, unfinished recordings. Several of my colleagues are noted musicologists. Many of them recognize the value of such recordings and possess them. But do they distribute them in their classes? Of course not.

There's been a few times when I have helped record companies select bonus tracks for [non-Steely Dan] CD reissues. I found that those who produce these re-releases mostly consult the people and fans who are very familiar with and have the bootlegs even though they ironically don't sanction them.

One thing I don't get: some people can't talk about unreleased recordings without offering them like a fool screaming "doses!?" at a Grateful Dead show [in front of security.] Now that's not a cool thing.

Do I think Walter and Donald have boots of their favorite players? Most likely so—but they don't offer them on the net.

Hey, boots exist and should be talked about for the whole picture. But for your own benefit, fly low and be cool.

Since then I would add, try to honor others (like Becker/Fagen) while honoring the weasel within, but don't be such a flamer about it.

All my two piasters.

Date: Fri, May 17, 2002, 08:44:56
Posted by: Kind Spirit, Were you blind that day?

Maybe Steely dan let Andy put them up just long enough for a few obsessive fans to grab them. Then they could distribuute them in the greater SD fandom. 48 hours to get them out there. Could it have been staged? Seems likely to me.

Date: Fri, May 17, 2002, 06:32:58
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

Well, I've done a 180 after hearing the official word at Andy's site. Another Spin might be right, but whether it's the lawyers or the guys not giving the green light, it needs to be respected. I would suspect that the guys had a problem with it. This stuff that was recently posted was probably rarely heard, so they may have been led to use some of the ideas from those songs for new ones (case in point Third World Man was adapted very heavily from Were You Blind That Day).

Here's hoping for a new one...soon!

Earl

Date: Fri, May 17, 2002, 02:08:01
Posted by: Another Spin On Things,

Who says Donald and Walter don't want these new tracks out there anyways? Maybe they figured what the hell. Maybe they are amblivalent but the lawyers mind. Just a thought.

Date: Fri, May 17, 2002, 00:12:12
Posted by: Stan, The Man

Great to see Bryant Gumbel get his by being dumped from CBS's The Early Show after tomorrow. I can't forget him saying the morning after the 2001 Grammys, "I mean, Steely Dan!?? C'mon!" Can you even see him listening to Eminem? What a bunch of shit. I hope this guy is never heard from again, or at least he is relegated to some cable access TV show.

Date: Thurs, May 16, 2002, 12:18:19
Posted by: n, and besides...

Your theory also doesn't work because Walter would know whether he'd given a copy of this tape to Jon. He never told me he had a copy or played it for me in all the time I knew him, so we can assume it didn't come from him. Nice try, though.

Date: Thurs, May 16, 2002, 12:06:05
Posted by: n, besides...

The quotes around his name aren't necessary, that is his real name, "sir."

Date: Thurs, May 16, 2002, 12:03:10
Posted by: norm, huh?

badapple: I specifically said that he DIDN'T "leak" the tape. Either your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired, or you think I'm a liar. Thank you, sir.

Nobody "leaked" anything to me, it was something a friend gave me for my own enjoyment. If I really were trying to do something sneaky or unsavory by mentioning it, I never would have told that story, and I never would have even made my presence known around here. Use your brain.

Date: Thurs, May 16, 2002, 11:41:55
Posted by: badapple,

The guy who lost here is "Jon"!

You completely identified him to Don and Walter and pointed to the fact that he leaked the tape !

Homer say "Duoooh!!!!"

Date: Thurs, May 16, 2002, 11:38:06
Posted by: h,

Fun link to catch-up on, BF. Also, inreference to the photo on the same page; I think what creeps me out most about Michael Jackson is that scary wooden nose. Beyond freaky, it's sad.

h

Date: Thurs, May 16, 2002, 09:15:44
Posted by: Big Fan, CT

Rock legends - of course they're rock legends!!!! Maybe news travels slower to England.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/newsid_1222000/1222139.stm

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 21:18:03
Posted by: Sandy, .

My girlfriend and I are watching Felcity. I've not watched the show but apparently, Felcity works at Dean and Deluca's. There's a wonderwaif on the show who's auditioning for a record company.

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 20:43:54
Posted by: heymike, nw suburbs chicago

Earl, Willow Creek is about a Mile south of the barn, might be the closest watering hole to Willow Creek!

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 17:51:32
Posted by: hoops,

The barn of Barrington is just about 1/4 mile north of the I-90 Tollway and about 2 miles south of Rt 62 and about 1 miles south of the Willow Creek Church Mall/Hypermarket. The Barn of Barrington is just that, a huge barn with a gambrel roof converted into a bar and eatery. The munchies are pretty good. For those of you in the city, it's about 35 miles from the Loop and about 50 minutes by car. No public transportation.

If you haven't already, be sure to sign up for the Chicago Danfest list by emailing majordomo@dandom.com with the only words in your message being

subscribe chicago

There'll be more discussion there.

Tangling things up for me, I've been planning to attend the Baltimore -DC "Countdown To Ecstasy" weekend on Jun 8 & 9, which I have missed several times in the past. I don't think I want to cancel again.

I'm hoping we can have a huge late summer/early fall Danfest in Chicago Labor Day weekend with Katy Lied one night and the Chicago Jazzfest other nights. The big request I keep hearing is, "when will Katy Lied play down in the city?" I concur. For that matter, I've always been disappointed that Steely Dan don't play downtown and play the 'burbs instead. So that would fit the bill for a Chicago Danfest drawing fans from outside the area. I hate to have people fly in to go to the burbs when the city is the best part.

Thanks for the heads up Dennis and HeyMike. A wing ding sounds great. Katy Lied even better.

h

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 17:06:26
Posted by: DS, Chicago

The Barn
1415 S. Barrington Rd.
Barrington, IL 60010

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 16:48:16
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago, IL

The show starts at 9:30 or so and will go until about 1:30 a.m. I don't know how far it is from that church. All I know is that it's on Barrington Road. I'll try to find out more for you.

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 14:47:37
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

Dennis, Hoops, or whomever can answer this: What time will the show in Barrington get started, and when will it probably end? I'm actually going to be in Barrington that weekend and would love to catch the show. There's a chance for conflicts, but I will likely be able to make it.

For those who know the area, how far is The Barn from Willow Creek Community Church? Thanks in advance!

Earl

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 14:23:21
Posted by: norm, stories and tapes

Fred - no, Jon isn't the one who gave me the now-infamous tapes. They were simply giving to me five years ago by a friend who came across them a year or so before that, and he also had no idea how rare they were. In fact, we've been sharing them with friends for a few years now, completely oblivious to their "top secret" status. A couple of them do their share of trading, so it was probably inevitable that they'd leak out at some point, even if I'd never come around here. We pretty much assumed that if we had them, they must be circulating elsewhere on the trader circuit. How wrong we were!

BTW, I once asked Jon if he had any recordings of his band with Walter and Randy from the 1960's. As you might have guessed, nothing exists - as he put it (and I'm paraphrasing here - it was some years ago by now), "Hey, we were kids, it was the '60s, no one thought about posterity then!" Besides, cassette recorders hadn't been invented yet, so it would have required someone to lug around a reel-to-reel, which wasn't likely. So there's nothing on tape from that period, which I'm sure is a GREAT relief to Walter if he's reading this!


Mu - glad you enjoyed the story. President Street Pete was mentioned in the Brian Sweet book, but as I remember it (been a few years since I read it), he didn't go into this much detail.


Again, I'm really sorry about any problems caused by getting this tape out there. Of course, the only way I could have ever known not to say anything about it was to ask about it in the first place, and hence the conundrum. I just hope the guys aren't too pissed off.....

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 12:34:34
Posted by: HeyMike, NW burbs, Chicago

I just saw the news on Katy Lied in Barrington. I live 5 minutes from the "Barn". Saturday the 8th of June??!!!

I think we need to plan a WinnnnnnngDinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg.
A summer smoker underground. (or a forest preserve!!)

What do you think??

HeyMike

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 12:11:09
Posted by: DrMu, Tejas

Norm: Amazing and detailed stories. Thanks for sharing!

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 10:15:44
Posted by: Fred,

norn- One more thing...So I take it, it was Jon who gave you those outtakes five years ago...right?

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 10:12:57
Posted by: Fred,

norm- Thanks for the Brooklyn story. I think I read the same thing in Brian Sweet's book, no?

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 06:30:22
Posted by: norn, wow

I just took another look at Andy's site, and indeed, the band asked that the songs be removed. I guess I really do owe someone an apology after all: namely, Donald and Walter.

Gentlemen: obviously you're reading this stuff, or have someone who is reading it let you know about what's happening here, so I'd like to reiterate that I honestly had no idea what the status was of these recordings when I first asked about them here. Certainly no one told me five years ago when I first got them, and for whatever reason, the subject just never came up until now. If you were ever to release this music, I know that I would go out and buy it again anyway, just because it would be the right thing to do. My most sincere apologies to both of you for any problems this may have caused.

(Hope it was okay I told that story, though....)

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 04:43:13
Posted by: n, oops, maybe not

I just noticed that the page was last updated March 9, so never mind.

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 04:40:51
Posted by: n, this should explain it

http://www.andymetzger.com/sounds

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 04:37:01
Posted by: norm, see what happens?

I doubt it was because of a cease-and-desist from D&W. Cash Only Island, Wetside Story, Medical Science, Sail The Waterway, etc. would be gone as well if that were the case. Maybe he was just getting too many hits and the server couldn't handle it. Well, at least they were up long enough for copies to get out in the first place, now it's up to the rest of you to spread the love.

Date: Wed, May 15, 2002, 03:20:08
Posted by: norm, Brooklyn (Owes The Charmer Under Me)

I saw the StealMe B'Damned Orchestra last summer at the You Go WHere I Go A Go Go, on the Strip between Clark and Hilldale. It was rad.

Okay, I'm awake now. Here's that story about Brooklyn, as told to me by my friend Jon. I related this one a year ago at the old Yahoo SD club, but that place has turned into such a total wasteland since then, so I might's well post it somewhere where people might actually read it. It's pretty gross, so be warned, in case you're eating.

You know that President Street Pete actually is a guy named Pete who lived in an apartment below Fagen on President Street in Brooklyn. Don & Walt used to sardonically refer to him as The Charmer, as he had a rather uncharmed life - you know, just another shlub dragging his way through life, nothing special going on. After his wife died, he spent his last days alone, mostly sitting in his apartment and watching TV.

He was so alone, in fact, that when he finally died, no one thought to look in on him until a week or so later, and only because he was stinking up the place. Finally, the stench got so bad that the landlord (and probably the police too, I don't remember) unlocked his door, and found him pretty much how you'd expect: sitting in his easy chair in front of the TV, partially decomposed and covered with insects. And right as they entered the room, as if on cue, a gigantic New York City-size cockroach came out of the guy's mouth, obviously having returned from making a meal of the guy's innards.

So when Don and Walter heard what happened (and naturally, there was some curiosity as to what was smelling so bad down there), it got then to thinking about all the people in the world like that, literally surrounded by people yet completely alone. So the song, while not actually about that specific incident, became a litany of things that await the losers of the world in their "next life" (whatever you perceive that to be). The title is another way of saying that the world owes these people that much for what they go through, or something to that effect.

What I found interesting about hearing this story is that, while shedding some light into their thought processes - in terms of both songwriting and their sense of humor - it also shows that once you know the meaning or inspiration behind one of their songs, it still doesn't matter. It's like when they finally revealed what Chain Lightning is about: okay, so it's two guys at a fascist rally in 1935 Berlin, but it could still be about anything. And that's the beauty of their lyrics. They've been quoted as saying that all their songs are chock-full of private jokes and references that only they and a few friends understand, and that if one of their songs doesn't have them convulsed in laughter, it hasn't done its job. One can only guess what all those other "cryptic" lines are about.....

Looking back, I really wish I'd sat Jon down with a few beers and grilled him on everything he knew about different tunes. Besides being friends in the 1960's, and having Walter serve as best man as his wedding c.1971, they rekindled their friendship when Don & Walt moved back to NY in the late '70s, so I'm sure he had plenty to tell if I'd have only asked. But sadly, he had a pretty bad case of MS when I first met him in 1993, so not only wasn't he playing drums anymore, he wasn't able to do much of anything, and it just kept getting worse until he moved back to NY in '97 to stay with his parents. MS being what it is, I doubt he's even alive anymore. It's a real shame, he was a great guy. That is one nasty-ass disease.

When Walter left NY for Hawaii, Jon also left to move to LA, and they basically fell out of touch as they moved on with their lives, although they both stayed in contact with Jon's ex-wife. She was living in the San Francisco area in the '90s, working with disabled children, and she invited Walter to play a (private?) benefit concert, which he came out to do with a full band; this must have been 1995 or '96. (Now, who has a tape of THAT? Not I!) For whatever reason, she forgot to tell Jon until a week or two after the fact. If only we'd known, we would've been there in a heartbeat! Oh well.

At least I had a chance to bring Jon out to see Randy California when Spirit did a gig with Arthur Lee & Love in Redondo Beach, about a mile from where he lived. The club was called the Strand, later renamed Club Caprice, and now a Bristol Farms store. They hadn't seen each other in 25 years. Ed Cassidy gave him drum lessons way back when, so it was a nice reunion for all. I never was much of a fan of their music, and they weren't very good that night (to put it nicely), but Arthur Lee was good. He was even better last month. I hear his European tour is selling out all over the place. Anyone who has a chance to see him really should, he is definitely in top form.

Well, I guess that's pretty much the extent of stories I have to share on this subject. Wish I had more.

Date: Tues, May 14, 2002, 20:04:13
Posted by: LuvMyke, StealMe B'damned Orchestra

Hi!

This is LuvMyke from the StealMe B'damned cover band in SoCal.

Just wanted everyone to know that we've got the goods from Andy and we've been practicing up on the flatulence and belching outtakes from Gaucho. We'll be performing these on our next gig, at the El Beano Pub, this Saturday night at 8:00 We also have arranged for the Snooze Along With Mitch Girls Choir to come perform Libby's "Snoring."

Come experience the wind blowing through my long, flowing hair as we let it rip on these primo new cuts this Saturday.

Is there gas in the car? Yes, there's gas in the car...and then some.

LuvMyke

Date: Tues, May 14, 2002, 18:11:44
Posted by: Dennis Shepherd, Chicago, IL

NEW KATY LIED GIG! Is there gas in the car?!?! Be sure to check out Steely Dan Tribute Band KATY LIED at The Barn in Barrington, IL on JUNE 8th. We've got some new songs for you this time and they're good ones! The Barn is on Barrington Road. I'll post directions when I get them or you can e-mail me.

Hope to see you there!

DS

Date: Tues, May 14, 2002, 17:49:17
Posted by: noam chomsky de plume, oh yeah, one other thing

I recently sent Andy a CD with The Second Arrangement and Talkin' About My Home. They weren't on the CD he got from el_sup, since he told me he had those tunes already. But my package arrived the other day, and before long y'all will have a nice upgrade on both tunes.

Date: Tues, May 14, 2002, 17:36:41
Posted by: norm, same as it ever was

Mic - now, that is some really funny shit! Brilliant how you tied that together! Good on yer, mate!


Little Wild One - sure, but I just got home from work (flu's pretty much gone away, though, which is cool), and I gotta get some sleep first. But I'll be back with it (the story, that is).


BTW, I know there's a few folks here in Los Angeles. Have any of you driven through the Valley lately? Notice how torn up Magnolia Boulevard in North Hollywood is? It's been that way for months, and it's like no one seems to be in much of a rush to fix it up. The fearsome excavation, indeed. I always think of that line when I'm on that street anyway, and now it's come true. Didn't D&W live in Woodland Hills in the 70's? That's on the other side of the Valley, but Magnolia goes a ways across.

Date: Tues, May 14, 2002, 13:42:31
Posted by: Mic (not Mike),

The gas pumps on sd.com are clearly a reference to the eminent release of the flatulence and belching bootlegs from Gaucho.

Mic (not Mike)

Date: Tues, May 14, 2002, 09:29:38
Posted by: Little Wild One, Houston + a year

Norm; Re: Brooklyn. Yes, please. Make My day.

Date: Tues, May 14, 2002, 08:00:28
Posted by: YGK - Shamless Pluggin, NYC

Direct from KRVM in Eugene Oregon:

"This week on the Rock-N-Rome Show I will feature three Bands from New York.
These bands are intertwined. Malcolm Hunter, Tycoon Dog and Core.
Core consist of Bill Burtt bass and vocals (formally with Tycoon Dog) Malcolm
Hunter piano, keyboards and vocals (also formally with Tycoon Dog) and Peter
Ray Runnells drums and vocals (formally with Tycoon Dog.
I will feature Malcolm Hunter's Wunderground Radio CD
Tycoon Dog Ruff Cut CD
And for the first time ever aired on the West coast Core's brand new sneak
preview of two songs on their new up coming CD ("Trying to Sort it all Out")
Remember there are three things I ask when you listen to the Rock-N-Rome Show.
(1) Crank up your volume (2) Have a good time and (3) To get down and boogie
in your underwear!!
And of course Rock-N-Rome's Corny pick of the week To tickle your funny bone!!
Please let me know if you have been listening on the Internet at
www.radiodestiny.com
or if you have been having any problems getting on that
site.
Studio line (541) 687-3147 Sundays 5pm-8pm

peace, Rome"

Tune in, folks........

ygk

Date: Tues, May 14, 2002, 07:41:29
Posted by: norm, jes' trying to help

BTW, the song is called If You Got The Bear.

Date: Tues, May 14, 2002, 05:27:01
Posted by: norm, i'm here, i'm there, i'm everywhere (so beware)

Posted by: Boston Rag, The New Gaucho demos
"Norm & Andy - All I can say is thanks for turning a sucky day
into a glorious day!"

You're very welcome! To quote a line from a Monty Python sketch, "If you've enjoyed it half as much as we've enjoyed bringing it to you...then we've enjoyed it twice as much as you!" (right before the 16 Ton Weight comes down) It's a real surprise to me to find out exactly what I've been sitting on all this time. I had no idea how totally bitchen I really was! (yeah, buddy, right)

Funny thing is, I've been a fan of theirs since the '70s, but for whatever reason, Gaucho was the one album I never got around to picking up. Never even heard it, except the few times I was near a radio when Hey Nineteen came on. Then one day I heard these demos with the instrumental version of the title tune, and I was like, "Dang! That has to be one of the greatest melodies these guys, or anyone, has ever written!" So I went out and finally bought the album on CD, based just on that. Who says bootlegs discourage record sales? In this case, it's just the opposite.

My verdict? Well, it's not their greatest achievement, obviously, but it's plenty cool. Actually, I sorta combine the official album with the unreleased tunes in my mind, and together they make a very nice collection of songs.


"Clas - you don't have to listen to the tracks if you don't want to."

Ahhh, don't worry about him. My guess is that he's already downloaded them, burned them to disc, and is now hard at work teaching himself the chord changes to If You Got The Bear to impress his friend(s). You know, the Swedes can sometimes have an unhealthy relationship with celebrities, to paraphrase Elton John....




Posted by: Earl, Delaware
"I don't think they are going to buy one of the bootlegs."

I think anyone who actually buys a bootleg nowadays is, well, a real loser. Tape traders have basically put those chumps out of business, which is a good thing indeed. Even someone like Zappa, whose hatred for bootleggers was well known, felt that tape trading of live or unreleased material was okay as long as no money changed hands.


"Is it unethical? Of course...because they aren't making any money from it."

In the case of these Gaucho tapes, the artists aren't making money from them because they chose not to release them. The option is always there for them if they wish to pursue it. But I don't mean to sound like I disagree with you, Earl, because we seem to be on the same page on this one.



Posted by: balise, right here
"Funny how you guys will back any tribute outfit out there but yet pretend to be mindful of the music's integrity at the same time."

...and you know for a fact that they've downloaded these tunes as soon as they were able, while trying to impugn me for offering up some free entertainment. Pretty weak. They're probably just jealous that they didn't find it first, so they could take the glory. To some people, music is a competitive sport - "I was into it before you were!" or "I was already out of it before you knew to be into it, that's how cool I am!" It's like Cartman in the South Park movie: "I saw the Terrence & Philip movie, who wants to touch me? I SAID, WHO WANTS TO F****** TOUCH ME???" Whatever. Anyway, the glory isn't mine, it's Donald and Walter's.



Okay, enough of all that. Now, would anyone be interested in hearing the story my friend told me about the inspiration behind Brooklyn (Owes The Charmer Under Me)?

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 21:27:05
Posted by: Peg, Not in Hawaii

Hey, Whatevah, did you notice how the gas pumps showed up not too long before the Hawaii state legislature began considering putting price controls on gas in the Aloha State (much to the chagrin of gas companies everywhere, because they fear a precedent)? Personally that was my take on it.
Yet I like your idea better 'cause it is more fun. Maybe they could do a song called "This All Too Technicolor Mobile Home" and make it about a fine yet aging rig driven by Kid Charlemagne, who is by now in his geezer retirement years. And he would still have be "careful what he carries" in his motorhome because you sure can overload those things...And he could be selling a more potent form of Viagra. Yup, it might work! :)

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 20:06:25
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale,

Hey Clas never really listened to Jackson Browne,but he did date Laura Nyro,so at least he's got good taste in women!!!

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 16:40:50
Posted by: DrMu, Tejas

Yesss! Kudos and many thanks to Norm and Andy! Bear will take you to unexpected places. .I like the full Kulee more with each listen. A beautiful Monday Morning with a Dan train on the KLH..

Whatevah: ...or there was no gas in the car after all, but we won't go there...

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 16:32:59
Posted by: Boston Rag, The New Gaucho demos

Norm & Andy - All I can say is thanks for turning a sucky day
into a glorious day! Kulee Baba has been my favorite demo
track for years. To hear the full band demo after all this time
put goosebumps on my arms! Clearly there are a lot of songs that
could have filled a 5th disc of the box set. Donald and Walter chose for whatever reasons not to put them out. That's a shame. I don't think of them in any degree less of genius for having heard the songs.
Norm & Andy thanks again for putting a smile on the SD community.

Clas - you don't have to listen to the tracks if you don't want to.
Too bad you'll miss "I Got The Bear" which boasts the lyric "Only time will tell, If you got the bear or the bear got you". I find it fascinating that Walter covered the same line, so to speak, on his solo album 13 years later. Don't miss the fun Clas.

Mark in Boston

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 10:50:02
Posted by: Whatevah happens,

After looking at the motel/gas station graphic on SD's home page a few more times, I've come to the conclusion that SD is going to resurrect the tune "This All Too Mobile Home" for the new album.

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 08:16:27
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

I will amend #2). I said potential SD fans will NEVER listen to the bootlegs. They might someday if they become fans and want to get a taste of them. But my point was that as a casual observer of the band, the chances that they will buy "Roaring Of The Lamb" as their first SD album are remote.

Earl

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 08:14:19
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

My personal opinion is that they shouldn't be too worried about these things. This is for two reasons.

1) The people who are going to listen to it are typically diehard Steely Dan fans. Thus, the those people are going to get the extra fill of music that they may not get if there were only the 8 studio albums and AIA to choose from.

2) People that are potential Steely Dan fans will most likely never hear this stuff. Listen, with all of the moneygrubbing the record companies have done by releasing Gold, Greatest Hits, A Decade Of Steely Dan, Show Biz Kids, Citizen Steely Dan, etc, I doubt a person who wants to get an idea of what SD's music is like is going to buy something that isn't a greatest hits album. They may buy Aja because of name recognition. I don't think they are going to buy one of the bootlegs.

Is it unethical? Of course...because they aren't making any money from it. For the person who has bought many things Steely Dan to contribute to the Becker/Fagen retirement fund, buying a bootleg is not hurting anyone IMO. It may even alleviate the frustration of the seemingly long lapses between albums.

Earl

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 07:05:37
Posted by: balise, right here

I have to admit that hearing stuff like Black Cow (piano, vocals only)or that early version of I got the news, for example, was quite insightful into the songwriting process. How else would you have heard the Second Arrangement anyway? Keeping in mind that those are rejects, of course. It has this considerable heuristic value nevertheless.
Funny how you guys will back any tribute outfit out there but yet pretend to be mindful of the music's integrity at the same time. There's even someone putting up pictures of The Steely Damned under the header "Steely Dan photos". Bet the band founders are just thrilled at that idea, yeah.
Bootlegs, on the other hand, show that you are diggin' deeper into the process of creating the finished songs you know and love, as a true fan.
This question wouldn't even be considered when it comes to Bob Dylan or The Grateful Dead aficionados, for example. For them, bootleg talk goes w/o saying.
What if I told Walter or Donald that I have this very rare collection of Ellington outtakes, or a killer Miles Davis boot? Empathy would ensue, I suspect. No, I don't really have those, for the record. But you can still contact me, don't read me wrong.

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 06:39:09
Posted by: NdP, standing corrected

Sorry, I meant Mike, not Myke.

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 06:28:51
Posted by: NdP, not there, I'm over here now

now, THAT's the spirit! Myke - I have some Becker/Miller outtakes you might want to trade: the Deep In The Heart Of Texas mix with Rosie Vela on harmonies, and the untitled piece where Walter is on one channel, playing blues licks all night long. and Mitch is on the other, being awoken by it and banging a broom on the ceiling. The stereo mix of that has been widely available for years, but this mix has never been heard, and was only rumored to exist. (The "Me Over Here, You Over There" mix, as it's known affectionately by Danfans worldwide.) I got it from the guy who was staying at Mitch's "pad" and surreptiously snuck me a copy. Illegal? Perhaps. Not very nice? I'll go with that. But special? Well, it's the one where Mitch's wife is telling him to go back to sleep about two hours into it (I have the entire 19 hours - oooooh!), so if it gets out, global security may be at risk. Lord knows I already done enuf damage.



Well, I guess I'm getting the answer to at least my first question. So basically, all this time I've been like Jed Clampett, sittin' on a bubblin' crude and having no idea. Drivin' down the boulevard, groovin' to the tunes (and I play 'em a LOT), not knowing it was such a big secret, and it was up to ME to guard it from the world. That I had my finger on the button all this time, as it were. Why don't someone TELL me these things?????? If this were a 1960's movie, it would be like Buddy Hackett as the President or something......

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 05:54:25
Posted by: Mike (not Myke),

As long as the all these new Gaucho demos are coming out, I have a few of my own naughty recordings whose time to share has come. Recorded using the same legendary microphone snaked through the pipes between Walter's and Mitch Miller's apartments circa 1979/1980, I have the following Gaucho-era outtakes:

• Walter Belching
• Donald Flatulating (Words + Music)
• Donald Flatulating (Bass and drums only mix)
• "Deep In The Heart Of Texas" by Mitch Miller, featuring Walter gargling in an adjacent apartment

As an added treat, I also have an early 70s tape of Libby Titus snoring in three versions sure to delight the most voyeuristic of Dan-fans:

• Libby snoring
• Libby snoring (bass, drums + nasal only mix)
• Libby snoring (without nose bone)

Hey someone: how do I get these MP4s to Andy's site?

Get out your CD burners and let'em rip!

Mike (not Myke)

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 05:38:55
Posted by: who else, normville

I don't know the person who worked in the studio, I didn't get it from him. I don't even know whether it was in NY or LA, and I don't care. But it happened 20+ years ago, so if it's legal aspect debate time, there's this thing called statute of limitations. There was certainly no criminal intent on my part, so let's just clear that up toot-sweet. Why are we even going into this? Sheesh.

Which gets back to my first question: is this tape really that rare? Because I'm nobody special, I can assure you, and it wasn't presented to me as "hot merchandise" or some big secret to hide from the world, so what's up with it? It's been sitting here for five years (not three, now that I remember correctly), and I certainly wasn't racing to get it out there all this time, so do you think I should have kept quiet about it? Just curious.


And at the risk of stirring up yet more controversy: the Katy Lied outtakes originated from a recording studio as well. So they say. But don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 05:03:34
Posted by: Clas, clas@ateljelundkvist.se

Norm - so these outakes origins from a recording studio? Someone made a copy of those songs and then gave them to - you?

It sounds illegal to me.

But hey, I am not judging anyone, just talking principle here.

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 03:59:42
Posted by: normie, where else?

Thanks, Stevee. I should have realized that I'd get a few negative responses about it. Being half-delirious with the flu right now, the thought didn't cross my mind! But I'm QUITE sure that those folks who object will never, EVER download these songs themselves, now that they have the option. (Suuuuuuure, they won't. They're probably "not" downloading them this very minute!)

Thing is, when I sent these recordings to Andy, I
really had no idea how rare they were. It was only after I sent them that I started looking around and realized that no one else had them. So it's not like I was trying to get a scoop on the world or anything. I've had these tapes for about three years now, and it hadn't occurred to me that I was so "in the loop" as to have something so exclusive. I'm not even a tape trader, they were just given to me by a friend. And I didn't mean to stir up any controversy or bad feelings here.

I will say this, though. I have a friend who grew up in NY and was a close friend of WB. In 1966, when they were both 16, they played together in a teenage rock'n'roll band with a 15-year-old guitarist named Randy Wolf (before he changed his last name to California and started the band Spirit). Now, this guy told me a few stories that are so personal that I would never, EVER share them with ANYONE, even privately. I'm only alluding to them now to make the point that I understand the need for privacy. And if I were to ever get my hands on their new recordings (which ain't gonna happen, you can be sure!), I would never sneak them out to the public. I do draw the line somewhere.



Anyway, back to my other question: does anyone know why the lyrics to Were You Blind That Day? got dumped in favor of Third World Man, especially at such a late stage in the recording process?

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 02:52:42
Posted by: Steveedan,

Norm - don't worry about it. If others don't like the outtakes, then THEY can skate past it. You have offended no-one. Or maybe it should be said this way: If anyone has taken offense to what Norm was doing, put a sock in it !"

I am always looking for new and different material on Steely Dan. I might be in the minority, but seeing as how the internet is such a great medium for seeking out the hard-to-find item, I can't think of a more appropriate place for something like bootlegs or outtakes. Now, if someone is charging a fee to obtain their bootlegs or outtakes, there could be some copywrite infringement issues on the rise, but leaving that aside, people like me are very appreciative for the opportunity to obtain these alternative versions or demos of songs.

Thank you Norm, I know I am not alone in thanking you.


Steveedan

Date: Mon, May 13, 2002, 00:02:56
Posted by: norm, still here

Oops - I just looked at his site, and he already posted them. Sorry.

Date: Sun, May 12, 2002, 23:51:13
Posted by: norm, right here

>Posted by: Clas,
>Nome de Plume - and why do we wanna hear
>that stuff in the first place?

With all due respect, speak for yourself, sir.



>Fagen/Becker obviously don't want us to
>hear hit, if they did, it would have ended
>up on the albums? Am I right?

If so, then everyone who has any Dan outtkes posted anywhere on the Internet, or has them included on their trader lists -- or for that matter, has any unofficial recordings by ANYone -- should take them down immediately. Right? There's plenty of SD outtakes out there already, and I haven't seen anyone complaining about that. But then again, I haven't been paying too much attention.

Andy hasn't put these new songs up at his site yet, so if you (and others) feel strongly enough that this stuff absolutely should not be shared, then by all means, please contact him and let him know before the cat's out of the bag. If enough folks show him the error of my ways, I'm sure he'll be glad to acquiesce.

You know, it's not THAT important for me to share it, and I certainly never meant to offend anyone with it. I sure the heck ain't trying to make a buck off of it. I'll just keep my own copy, enjoy it on my own, and leave it at that. Deal?



>Posted by: Dave,
>The idea of more Steely Dan tunage >excites and
>titillates me, yet aren't these outtakes more like
>their private materials?

I don't know. If something had been taken from their home, I'd say it was. If it were something like the Syd Barrett stalker footage from a couple of years ago, I'd definitely say it was. But this... I dunno, you tell me.....



>Rather, these demos are like personal
>notes in their private residences.

Except they're not from their private residences, they're from a recording studio. But again, it's not that important for me to spread it around, I just thought a few folks might enjoy it. If not, just let Andy know before he posts it, and hopefully he won't.



>Seems to me, as much as we lubs new
>Dan songs, in many cases, it's like an
>invasion of their privacy. Anyhow, I hate
>to potshke around with such recordings.

Meaning that if you had the chance, you wouldn't want to hear it? I bet you would, and I bet you'd like it too. As that other person said, "because the music sounds great!" And it does.

Again, I apologize if this has offended anyone. That certainly wasn't my intention, and if this is only going to serve to stir people up in the wrong way, let's just drop it.

Date: Sun, May 12, 2002, 16:54:09
Posted by: Dave,

The idea of more Steely Dan tunage excites and titillates me, yet aren't these outtakes more like their private materials?

Between their negative comments about the 1968-71 demos and what they've said in the box set liner notes, Becker/Fagen seem not to be fond of demo recordings' distribution. I don't think it has to do with money. By all accounts, Becker and Fagen's royalty rates are complete shit, especially in relation to what their songs are truly worth. Rather, these demos are like personal notes in their private residences. Seems to me, as much as we lubs new Dan songs, in many cases, it's like an invasion of their privacy. Anyhow, I hate to potshke around with such recordings.

Am I the only one who thinks The Last Waltz is way over-hyped and self-aggrandizing? It's like Robbie Robertson making a groyse metsiye that he's dumping his band mates. He's talented but he acts as if he is genius. Robbie: Gey strashe di vantsn! Despite the stellar cast in TLW, everyone looks bored, tired and pretentious. Like we should be excited? It's like the whole thing sinks because of the weight of it all. I liked Robbie Robertson's self-titled solo debut in 1987. But it also was excessively dependent on other star appearances. Maybe I'm speaking shmontses, but RR seems like a big phony.

Hoops, I see that Wilco shares your hometown of Champagne, Illinois. Have you seen them and what do you think of their new album? Maybe Reprise will dump Steely Dan, too. Then they could go to another label like Nonesuch or Artemis.

Dave

Date: Sun, May 12, 2002, 15:19:21
Posted by: Peg, Under rain

Thanks a bunch, Earl, Howard, and Whateveh for answering my queries. Happy mother's day to beautiful housewives everywhere.
A plug from me now, since Elvis Costello once named "Show Biz Kids" as one of the best songs of all time: If you liked Elvis Costello long ago (i.e. 20 years) when he first came out, all obnoxious, loud, and liking it, back "when he was cruel," you will probably enjoy his new one, "When I Was Cruel" -- a lot.

Date: Sun, May 12, 2002, 14:10:29
Posted by: Gaucho outtakes,

Because the music sounds great!

Date: Sun, May 12, 2002, 11:02:43
Posted by: Clas,

Nome de Plume - and why do we wanna hear that stuff in the first place? Fagen/Becker obviously don't want us to hear hit, if they did, it would have ended up on the albums? Am I right?

C

Date: Sun, May 12, 2002, 10:56:29
Posted by: Clas,

I wanna show you guys some excellent music, here's the link:

www.jacksonbrowne.com

Date: Sun, May 12, 2002, 04:56:57
Posted by: norm de plume, los angeles, ca

Hello all,

I'm sure most of you know about Andy Metzger's SD website - if not, it's at http://www.andymetzger.com - anyway, I noticed there were several outtakes from Gaucho that he didn't have posted, so I sent them to him last week. (Actually, he got most of them from someone who originally got them from me a couple of months ago, but whatever.) The tunes are:

Kind Spirit - only the lyrics in the chorus were written, so DF "na-na-na"'s his way through the verses. Instrumentation is piano, electric piano, bass and drums.

Were You Blind That Day? - an early version of Third World Man with different lyrics, but the same rhythm track and same guitar solo as on the album version.

If You Got The Bear - vocal, piano, electric piano, clavinet, bass, drums.

Time Out Of Mind - piano, bass, drums, guitar and vocals. Same as album version, but the guitar in the instrumental break and some of the backing vocals were left off the final version (or mixed WAY down).

Gaucho - piano, bass, drums, electric piano. Same as album version.

Kulee Baba - full rhythm section, different than the piano/vocal demo.

There's also The Second Arrangement and Talkin' About My Home, both of which are on Andy's site, but these versions sound much clearer.


I've looked around at various webpages listing "complete outtakes" from this album, and none of them include this stuff (except the last two songs). So my first question is: were these recordings really that rare? If so, then I had a real find on my hands. Andy said he'd be posting them in a week or so, after he finishes moving.

My second question is about Were You Blind That Day? - does anyone know the story of why they changed the lyrics? It's interesting that they kept these original ones as long as they did, up to recording the basic track and guitar solo, then scrapped them for new ones. Not that the new words suck, but personally I like the original ones better, and I was wondering if anyone knows of their reasons for changing it.

Date: Sat, May 11, 2002, 23:12:55
Posted by: Jim,

Awww Geezzz...new album from Eminem due out. Here come all the ridiculous reviews starting, "Eminem, cheated of his Best Album Grammy" by the archaic Steely Dan..." Let's hope that's just a bad nightmare on my part and doesn't happen too much. Even the cover of this guy's album is cheesy.

Jim

Date: Sat, May 11, 2002, 02:52:20
Posted by: Howard, @home

2AN time signatures - see:

http://www.steelydan.com/2vnmojo.html (bottom of page)

http://www.steelydan.com/2vnjam.html (also near the bottom)

Howard

Date: Fri, May 10, 2002, 20:33:12
Posted by: hoops,

Wanted to remind you musicians about "RFD2" which is a Live365 radio station that plays original and cover music by the loyal inhabitants of the greater Dandom. Still looking for some extra music. Send your music as detailed at the bottom of http://www.dandom.com/radiofreedandom

While there you will find a directory of Internet Radio Stations DJ'd by several of us. If you have your own Internet radio station, please let me know so it can be added to the Directory. I think it's a great way to get to know the musical tastes of Steely Dan fans.

h

Date: Fri, May 10, 2002, 15:54:03
Posted by: Whatevah happens,

Peg-- "Fall of '92" was a whack track that Donald and Walter wrote together and Walter recorded for 11ToW... but it ended up being bounced from the album. But it did turn up as a B-side of a promo single that Giant put out at the time. Folks who saw the '93 tour might remember that one being played live at every show that year.

Date: Fri, May 10, 2002, 15:10:15
Posted by: Q, FL

Hoops,

I couldn't agree more on your comments regarding CBAT.

the more I listen to it the more I regard it as a timeless gem.

"Only A Fool" -guitars,lyrics,etc. - brilliant.

"Kings" is also a personal fav along with the usual DIA and RITY.

CBAT has moved up among my personal rankings:

#1 favorite album: Aja, Katy, CBAT, Countdown, Royal, Gaucho, untitled new one due out any minute...

#2 2VN, Pretzel

#3 oh, none left to rank

Date: Fri, May 10, 2002, 13:54:07
Posted by: The Viper, Suburban Streets

All the discussion about the timing on the songs has been great. I wish there were more discussion like this.

Vipe-Man

Date: Fri, May 10, 2002, 13:50:36
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

No such thing as a 12th note, thus 9/12 is not possible. I feel time signatures are all relative anyway. I can never figure out when something should be cut time rather than 4/4, or 2/4, or what not. 2VN feels more like a 3/2 to me, but that's not the point. The point is that you could write it many different ways...it's arbitrary. It's got a strong waltz feel, but as was stated it should be in 1/4th notes.

The main point of this post is just to add that time signatures are arbitrary. 6/4's not much different from 12/8 or 3/2, it's just accounting. The only time you need to be careful about your time sig assignment is when you change meters in midstream...the band needs to feel the change properly, and if you don't have the proper beat you're bound to have a wreck.

Earl

Date: Fri, May 10, 2002, 11:04:59
Posted by: Peg, Mowing again

Thanks, Howard, I am relieved! The idea of "2vN" being 3/4, as suggested previously, was not setting well with my soul at all! I am leaning toward your educated guess, yet intuition tells me it may be a bit more complicated than 6/4, even. Maybe.. 9/12? (I swear I saw the actual time signature mentioned in an article about the album about a year or so, but as of right now I still have not found it.)

About a week ago a Bluebook 'poster' mentioned what I assume is a song titled "Fall of '92." I have looked for it on various albums and come up nil. How might one hear such?

Date: Thurs, May 09, 2002, 13:55:30
Posted by: Howard, @home

Another typo! Should have written that the extra bar in Aja ("I run to you") is 3/4, not 2/4!

Howard

Date: Thurs, May 09, 2002, 12:45:59
Posted by: Steveedan,

Sorry. A typo ... should have been "advanced time signature" ...

Date: Thurs, May 09, 2002, 12:44:00
Posted by: Steveedan, Home

Howard - I read you post here and went through the Verse section of Your Gold Teeth II in my mind. I never noticed it before, but as usual, you are correct. That song in the Verse section is in 6/8 with a few 3/8 measures thrown in. The 3/8 measures are where the lyrics that are sung are:

-- Verse 1 --
"And the way that they ..."
"... time they ride ..."

-- Verse 2 --
"And go you one ..."
"... your own win or ..."

And on Two Against Nature (the song) the 6/4 feel makes more sense. I guess I better bone up on my advance time signature recognition.
Use it or lose it, I suppose.

Hoops - you're the greatest. Catch you all later.


Steveedan

Date: Thurs, May 09, 2002, 11:45:17
Posted by: hoops,

Really enjoying the time discussion. When does Brubek come up?

Sharke, love the shirt! Just the right balance between realism and humour. Black or dark colors a possibility?

Just when I was wondering about the popularity of discussing Vandom within Dandom, I get the following spam from Amazon.com:

We've noticed that many of our customers who have purchased albums by Steely Dan also enjoy the music of Van Morrison. For this reason, you might like to know that Van Morrison's new album Down The Road will hit the shelves on May 14, 2002. For the next few days, you can pre-order your copy at a savings of $4.99 by following the link below

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000646UW/ref%3Dmk%5Fpb%5Fiyy/103-6526941-5306235

Date: Thurs, May 09, 2002, 08:05:30
Posted by: Howard,

Haven't been here "on the blue" for a while! Just been reading the thoughts on Gold Teeth II, time signatures etc.

Gold Teeth II is definitely a mixture of 6/8 ands 3/8, as others have already said. There are quite a few SD songs where the occasional bar of a different time signature is added, e.g in Aja "I run to you" - you get one bar of 2/4, though the song is mainy in 4/4. GT II is a bit unusual in the way that so many single bars of 3/8 are stuck in - sounds great though. John Lennon also loved to switch time signatures (e.g All You Need Is Love mixes 4/4 and 3/4 in the verse)

I think Two Against Nature might be in 6/4, rather than 6/8. It's definitely not in 3/4 as Randy mentioned (never trust the sheet music or the songbooks). There's a definite feeling of 6 beats in the bar, not 3. Given the speed of the song, I'd probably go for 6/4. That would make the rhythm for the first bar of the chorus ("Two against nature don't you...") two 8th notes, followed by 5 quarter notes.

Howard

Date: Thurs, May 09, 2002, 07:48:12
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

Hoops: Keep us informed about the Katy Lied date. I am actually going to be in the Chicago area around that time attending a conference at the Willow Creek Community Church. If things are feasible (which they probably won't, but that's OK), I might try to get to that show for a set or so. Would be cool to meet a few of the Digest/Bluebook faithful too.

Earl

Date: Thurs, May 09, 2002, 00:17:48
Posted by: sharkdeville,

Hey all-
I just put together a website, and I've got some T-shirts for sale featuring some of my artwork, including one of Don & Walt...

please take a look at:

http://homepage.mac.com/bossaroo9/BillyBop/PhotoAlbum6.html

...and let me know what you think!

Date: Wed, May 08, 2002, 19:16:03
Posted by: hoops,

HeyMike: Was at the same Rosemont Morrison show. It was good, but was disappointed at how Van kept looking at his watch between songs and then left after only 1:15 without an encore. Wasn't especially thrilled with Linda Gail Lewis and the Red Hot Pokers part. I know it was supposed to be Van's foray into bar band and old time rock and roll, but it was a little too Country and Western to me and I am allergic to most country and western. Often but not always, I find popular Country is like Jerry Springer set to music. That's not to say I dislike it all. Anywhoo…Van at the Civic Opera House in 93 was fantastic and his one set at the '99 Guinness Fleadh was great but too short. Included a great "(Wanna Make Love) In The Afternoon" and the blues classic, "Help Me." A reluctant Elvis Costello was spontaneously invited on stage by Van for "Jackie Wilson." Wasn't exactly a fan of Hootie and the Blowfish, but they went up a notch for me at that same Fleadh show. Many stood all day in the rain at this racetrack just to see Van. Hootie had the unenviable position of following Van's set. So when Van didn't come on for a second set and Hootie showed up , they were massively boo'd by the audience. And the Hootie said something to the effect, "Hey wer'e sorry too that there's not more Van, but don't boo us, he's a tough act to follow." As I've said before, just to read some of Van's reactions to the Internet made me stop my mail list for him not much longer after I started one several years ago. He's a real prickly guy.

BHW: Cool food for thought. I think the Mancini thing rings closer for Fagen than for Becker. Although I wouldn't see them hanging out on Tonight, I definitely seem them as creators.

I've always taken Becker and Fagen's jokster interactions with interviewers as their way of telling to lighten up while also saying, if the question is so important, listen a bit and figure it out yerself. I know a subset of Dan Fans would love a definitive dissection of Steely Dan's lyrics, yet, I've always steered away from that. Instead, Oleander takes the right tack by approaching it as open-ended "Fever Dreams." With definitive meanings dished out, people don't have to think and don't develop an evolving, expansive interpretation/visualization of each ditty. Blah, blah, blah…

Looks like Katy Lied might have another date on June 6, but in the Chicago suburbs again.

Date: Wed, May 08, 2002, 13:59:55
Posted by: HeyMike, NWBurbs-Chgo

Hi, regarding lyrics, i am nearly finished with Brian Sweets book "Reelin' In The Years". He addresses lyrics in there quite a bit. He says Goucho is about a gay couple with a young spanish guy intruding on the relationship. It all takes place in a fictitious Manhattan highrise. He quotes Donald regarding Kid C as "no real person"..more a sign of changing times.

Hoops, im with you on Morrison. did you see him in Rosemont? I was at the second show. If you cant laid playing Poetic Champions...somethings wrong!!--Let us know about the Katie Lied show ASAP. Any idea where??

HeyMike

Date: Wed, May 08, 2002, 11:49:04
Posted by: Beautiful Housewife, distressed about breakfast dishes

Dandom Insight #3: Glamour Profession

In regards to interpreting what exactly Donald and Walter are saying vs. what they mean in a certain song, let us not forget they the two of them wanted to grow up being songwriters, not necessarily musicians. They seem to harbor a type of "Henry Mancini-esque" fantasy, where they are famous for their sensational and provocative songwriting talents, leaving the actual performances of their product to professionals. That way they can appear on the Tonight Show, in their silkiest black tuxedos, martinis in hand, discussing the adventures of their latest African safari with Johnny Carson, then leave early to be off to the Canyon for a cocktail party by the pool with Len Bernstein and the gang at 8:00.

The lyrics and how they interact with the music (i.e., romantic words against anti-romantic music or vice versa) is what gets me every time. And, for the sake of protecting their song-writing muses, I've noticed they will purposely say misleading items in their interviews just to throw off would-be code-crackers. As we have all figured out by now, Donald and Walter H-A-T-E show business and do everything they can to poke fun at it and it's poseurs. It's the "Two Against Nature" theme, that they're in show-business, but it's really not what they'd rather be doing. Heck, it pays the bills.

Date: Wed, May 08, 2002, 08:11:39
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

I think part of my ignorance to the lyrics is that I am an audiophile. I love the music. I enjoy the interlude to Green Earrings much more than the rather bland verse and chorus. I think Feldman's electric piano solo on Black Cow is so cool...I actually look forward to that section of the song. That's not saying that I don't like verses and choruses; I think it's a great study in music theory to follow the chordal and modal progressions of their songs.

Have I ever thought about the lyrics to a Steely Dan song? Of course. It would be great to figure out what exactly they are talking about in some of their more obscure songs. To dwell upon the meaning of the lyrics goes against what the music is about, in my opinion. The music is about a groove. There are few songs in there repertoire that lack that feel (or swing or vibe or groove, whatever you wanna call it). That's what makes their music awesome. The lyrics are cool too, but even with the words I think the vocal pitch, inflection, and cadence mean more to the song than what Fagen (or Becker) is saying. The vocals are just another instrument, IMO.

Earl

Date: Wed, May 08, 2002, 05:33:49
Posted by: Steveedan, On break from a Pretzel Logic rehearsal

Hi everyone -

I have been away for a while and I noticed a lot of posts here that I wanted to chime in on with my two cents:

To Pivotal Pete - There are many jazz tunes in a 3/4 (or waltz) feel. The first one that comes to mind is called "Waltz For Debbie" ... you should hear Oscar Peterson play that one! Another one I remember is a jazz-interpretive version of "My Favorite Things" from The Sound Of Music. Also, you can play practically any song with a triplet feel, so, I just wanted to let you know that.

Also, Fagen himself said that Kid Charlemagne was about Owsley, the guy who stumbled onto the formula for LSD. The lyric: "You are obsolete, look at all the white men on the street" is a reference to people who used to trip out are now more interested in cocaine.
The lyric: "All those day glow freaks who used to paint the face, they’ve joined the human race ..." means, all the people who used to trip out a lot (Timothy Leary’s "Drop out, tune in" slogan) who had dropped out have dropped back in to the mainstream of society.

"Oleander" (that’s her handle) has a site called Fever Dreams. There are interpretations of most of the Steely Dan lyrics there. Very interesting and it is a huge body of work. I invite you to check it out. I learned who Cathy Berberian was (from Your Gold Teeth) off of Countdown To Ecstasy.

Peter Gabriel’s "Shock The Monkey" is about a classic psychological test regarding basic human response (watch the monkey get hurt, monkey ...). It starts out about clinical testing and transforms into a commentary about oppression. A classic Gabriel message.

To Peg - The Verse and Chorus sections of Your Gold Teeth II are in 6/8. The Intro and Solo sections are in 4/4, The song Two Against Nature is in 3/4. Thanks for telling us about the Performing Songwriter Magazine article.

To Randy - I am looking at the songbook right now for Two Against Nature. I agree that the song feels like it is in 6/8. I suspect that they wrote it in 3/4 because it is easier to read.
As for your request about The Fall of ’92, I could easily bang a chart out for you but, you might recall that I have tried to contact you a few times with no response so I think that I will have to pass on your request at this time as these days I am kept very busy re-working charts for the new band. Sorry.

Earl - I am with you. I delight in the music, the lyrics to me are secondary, but after years, no, decades, of listening to it, I find myself trying to get a better understanding of what they are trying to say. If it is not a message they are sending, then the challenge is to figure out what is the story they are telling. It’s all fun however you approach it.

Hoops - there certainly is magic in all that music. Fire In The Hole is one of my favorite songs to play on piano. Those who know the song get all happy when I play that one, but I don’t think the band is going to want to do it. Herbie Hancock’s rendition of Your Gold Teeth II is great. It shows how Herbie’s jazz interpretation of this song transforms it into something entirely different. There are two big band records, one that bears your name, called The Hoops McCann band, which has some great versions of Steely Dan songs, and also (from the late 1970’s), Woody Herman and The Herd released a record called Chick, Donald, Walter, and Woodrow. I am sure that most of you have heard The Beatles or other popular songs played with jazz interpretation, but there is so much more gold to mine in Steely Dan music for this purpose than most other pop music. (Thanks Jim.) By the way, do you know how to say "Only a fool would say that" in Spanish? Si?

Take it easy everyone.


Steveedan

Date: Tues, May 07, 2002, 23:19:57
Posted by: Thelonious, Mondo, Montana

Greetings to all in Dan Land.

Hoops, I'm getting Danfest envy out here in the great northwoods. Guess I need to get my ass to town somewhere for a good party with the enlightened few.

My Steely Dan moment of the day was a very surreal muzak version of "Time Out of Mind" playing at the local grocery store. I laughed uncontrollably right through check out.

Date: Tues, May 07, 2002, 19:01:58
Posted by: gypsyqueeninfairytale,

Yes Earl,I have to agree with you on that one...


Ayanna

Date: Tues, May 07, 2002, 14:19:49
Posted by: hoops,

Just to let you know several new Danfest Lists have been reactived or started anew, including St Louis, Indy, Buffalo, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Portland, OR, Brussels, Oslo, Stockholm, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Helsinki, and more. There are now dozens of Danfest lists.

Also, the group out of the Baltimore/Washington D.C. area are getting it together for another of their huge WingDings on June 8. This is their fifth since the 2000 show at Merriwether. Their Danfest list is probably the most active.

Finally, Katy Lied, the Chicago-area Dan cover band that brought down the house last month is planning another gig in early June. More details on the Chicago Danfest list.

To sign up for a particular Danfest list, check out http://www.dandom.com/danfests

To get the Dandom Digest newsletter by Dan Fans, email subscribe@dandom.com

Date: Tues, May 07, 2002, 14:13:57
Posted by: hoops,

I would agree with Earl insofar as that the songs of Steely Dan can clearly stand alone as classic, for-the-ages music/instrumentals. Witness Herbie Hancock's "Gold Teeth II" and Justin Morell's recent recording as the tip of the iceberg. At the same time, the nuanaces of Steely Dan's music are clearly influenced by the lyrics and vice-versa. When I start appreciating their lyrcis, I start appreciating the music even more. Sure, "Green Earrings" and "The Fez" are deep lyrics at face value but then when you hear the lyrics, the way the vocals and music are performed and interrpretted in relation to them, the vocals, the music and lyrics all become much greater as a whole than as parts.

I know plenty of people who are satisfied with appreciating "Glamour Profession" as cool music or "Deacon Blue" as pleasant (as a relative said), and that's fine. That's probably why some survey several years ago listed Steely Dan as third in most frequently played store muzak (behind the Beatles and Elton John and ahead of Billy Joel and Fleetwood Mac) and a lot of people consider them to be "jaz Lite" to played with Kenny G. (shudder!). But you also miss a lot when you do that. That's why seven studio albums (and now eight) are so satisfying to me after all these years. I'm still discovering more about these recordings—the songs, the music, the lyrics, the interpretations, the inflections, the nuances.

Last night, I was listening to CBAT and appreciated it with some new perspectives. What? CBAT is 30 years old this fall! 1) I realized how Fagen already had all these great vocal nuances down. 2) I also realized in a new way that Fagen's voice today is not as supple as it used to be, but he is even better at the phrasing. 3) I also realized how CBAT has such a loose feel to it. 4) I still marvel at the piano playing on "Fire In the Hole." So Monk-influenced and blows away Larry Knechtel who I recall being a frequent ABC's studio player of the day. 5) those guitars on "Only A Fool…" are still so fucking amazing. 6) Roger Nichols, et al do an incredible job of keeping our favorite albums sounding like they were just recorded. And, lastly, 6) Maybe Pat Boone should cover "Dirty Work." (Imagine!) This sort of revelation and marvel happens for me everytime I put on a Dan record. And yeah, the lyrics lead me on to dig deeper.

h

Date: Tues, May 07, 2002, 07:22:46
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

I personally think "getting" the Dan's music is overrated. The themes are great and all, but I don't think appreciating their music entails understanding the significance of Port Blanc. The key is the music, which is what I think Fagen and Becker take the most pride in. The one cover they have done was an instrumental. I think they add words because rock/pop almost exclusively needs words to be accepted as such. Thus they decide to add a story that may not be your typical everyday story you find in mainstream music.

It is interesting to think about their lyrics, but definitely non-essential.

Earl

Date: Tues, May 07, 2002, 00:20:21
Posted by: Yantzy,

As we know casual fans and DJs too often dismiss Steely Dan as the band that brought us "Rikki" and other pleasant music, missing what the heck is going on in the lyrics—which is Ok since it's funny to hear "Rose Darling" on the store music while shopping. Still one need go no farther than the "VH1 StoryTellers Classics" VHS and DVD from last year to get the D + W spin on things. That DVD includes D + W talking about Kid Charlemagne and, of course, a performance.

Kid Charlemagne is Owlsey, the acid guy of Ken Kesey fame. Tell it to your DJ.

Date: Mon, May 06, 2002, 21:44:10
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Paige ... re: Kid Charlemagne - One of the songs I'm pretty sure I DO get. Kid C was an innovative (or rather, lucky) drug maker who's world has changed around him. His former hippie clients are now upstanding members of society and the law is on his tail. You ain't crazy.

There are a few SD songs I'd like a little more clarity on (e.g. What exactly is going on in "Gaucho"? Is there an 800 number to contact the 2vN guys? Why do we need to resurrect the Boston Rag?), but most can be deciphered with years of patient study and the occasional helpful hint from a liner note or critic's offhand comment.

I'd really like someone to explain what's the story with Peter Gabriel's "Shock the Monkey"? Ask your DJ if she can enlighten you on that one ...

P.S. Reflecting on the challenge of "getting" SD lyrics, it occurs to me that applying Occam's Razor seems to work: "The best explanation is usually the simplest one."

Date: Mon, May 06, 2002, 18:29:36
Posted by: W1P,

Anyone catch Six Feet Under last night? Brenda goes to a "swinger" party and as they walk in the door "Hey 19" is on the stereo.

Date: Mon, May 06, 2002, 14:15:30
Posted by: Randy, NJ/USA

Nice to hear there are others who appreciate the '96 Becker-vocal version of "Jack of Speed." While the 'Two Against Nature' studio version is stellar in its own way, it is also more tentative, and thus merely suggests its somewhat "cautionary" vibe. Becker captured the heart of the song a bit better, and the version with him singing has a spooky, broodingly threatening element altogether missing from the album version. I love both, but Becker's vocal (and Wayne Krantz' superb guitar solo) give the '96 version the edge at my house-

Randy
NIGHTFLY62@aol.com

Date: Mon, May 06, 2002, 13:38:42
Posted by: hoops@dandom.com,

The music of Van Morrison is my other musical passion. But unlike Steely Dan, I don't like every single thing he's done; I have some Steely Dan songs I prefer over others but it's a matter of a song being really cool versus sublime. While most of Van's stuff is sublime, he also has some stinkers—where he underachieves—especially in the lyrics department during the past decade. Yet, when some people would go to Church or Temple or meditate, I put on a Van Morrison record. His music is my idea of religion.

Van has a new album coming out next week called "Down The Road" —haven't heard it yet. But someone named Joe Jackson wrote a fair review in the Independent Observer. Not sure if it is the same Joe Jackson who is a Steely Dan Fan and recorded "King of The World."
h

Date: Mon, May 06, 2002, 12:02:53
Posted by: JackUSA

Drove all the way into work this morning and somehow was listening to a recording of Walter's "Jack of Speed" from '96 tour. The 2vN version is great but Walter's is sublime and captures a lot raw energy lacking in the 2000 version. I was driving down a grungey avenue and that version somehow really captured the cityscape this rainy day. Not only was I grooving on the track but I felt like I was living in a video, driving around. Wish that version would make it out someday.

Date: Mon, May 06, 2002, 11:32:53
Posted by: Randy, NJ/USA

Steely-folk:

Here's one for the fellow musicians out there - has anyone done their own transcription of Steely Dan's "Fall of '92"? Send me an e-mail if you have as I'd like to get some other takes on the song-

Randy
NIGHTFLY62@aol.com

P.S. "Two Against Nature" is in 6/8 time, and is incorrectly listed in the songbook (as usual) as being in 3/4 time-

Date: Mon, May 06, 2002, 01:34:23
Posted by: Paige,

So....
I ended up calling this radio station here in Santa Barbara. The DJ said that she never could understand the lyrics of SD. It was one of these "rock blocks" where they played 3 songs from a variety of bands... Of course, they played Steely Dan. One of the songs was Kid Charl....I tried to explain to her that I felt that the song was about drug production... etc. ....She thought that I was crazy. Maybe I am.

-Paige

Date: Sun, May 05, 2002, 23:50:49
Posted by: Sharkdeville, over here

I love New Frontier! So cool. And it's the first video I remember seeing on MTV.

I wish they'd kick it live.

Date: Sun, May 05, 2002, 12:45:47
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Thanks for the confirmation on Your Gold Teeth II.
Now I have to confess I think I blew my esoteric jazz reference. As I was taught by "in the know" friends in college, Brubeck and jazz cats others of that era liked to do unusual (unattainable by mortal goof-off musicians) tempos like 4/5 (not 5/4, as I wrote -- I think). [Maybe they still do, I've not checked.] I even think that's why Brubeck's biggest hit was called "Take Five." Also explaining his designation of artist, pioneer and underground chick magnet.
Not sure anyone cares -- I just have noticed that YGT2 is the closest thing to Strauss in the SD catalog I know of. And "New Frontier" is one of the best pieces of story/lyrics work of all W & D's stuff, which is saying a lot.

Date: Sat, May 04, 2002, 06:35:39
Posted by: Zblotnik, The Bunker

Your Gold Teeth II: have dug out the sheetmusic: it's in 6/8 with bars of 3/8 at 'way that they', 'time they ride', 'see how they', 'go you one'.

Count it: 6/8: ONE two three FOUR five six: WHO are these CHILdren who.... 3/8: ONE TWO THREE: WAY THAT THEY...

So 6/8+3/8: ONE two three FOUR five six, ONE TWO THREE: SPEAK with their WINGS and the WAY THAT THEY... or, THROW out your GOLD teeth and SEE HOW THEY..

Question answered?

Date: Fri, May 03, 2002, 16:30:12
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago

A Waltz is 3/4 time. No such thing as 2/3 time. Just a heads up!

Date: Fri, May 03, 2002, 15:33:22
Posted by: Time Kipa, out of mind

Your Gold Teeth 2, I believe, is a standard waltz in 2/3.
do dap dap do dap dap do do do dooooooooooooooooooo... yep.

Date: Fri, May 03, 2002, 08:14:24
Posted by: Earl, Delaware

Peg,

Remember that they had "Jack Of Speed" available for at least one tour before 2VN. I wouldn't worry too much about the timeline. They probably lost a full year on tour. I doubt they were in much of a hurry with their tour successes.

I would doubt they are going to try to keep the pace they kept in the 70's where they had an album every year or two, but I don't think they are going to spend too much time on this album (especially since they are reportedly going for a more live approach).

Earl

Date: Thurs, May 02, 2002, 23:22:38
Posted by: DrMu, Tejas

Pivotal Pete: I think Your Gold Teeth II just may be 5/4. Count 1...2...3... and 1..2... Then start again...

Date: Thurs, May 02, 2002, 19:30:22
Posted by: Peg, Surrounded!

I would wager Gold Teeth II is 6/8 but I'd love to see the "real" sheet music to find out for sure. Which reminds me, isn't the track "Two Against Nature" in 11/10 or some other bizarre time?

In my editorially minded pursuit of finding all things SD in print, I have obtained a copy of Performing Songwriter magazine, March/April 2000, with a fine, 11 (yes, eleven--how rare for a magazine to do that!)-page story about Becker and Fagen. Written of course at the time when the duo were 'reappearing' with 2vN. This article is awesome, with intelligent questions in the interview and some hilarious answers from the duo. It is in full color with some old photos (most of them are not in the Sweet book). One old photo with Fagen actually smiling (sortof).

Some outtakes: Their five favorite records are: Otis Redding, The Best of Otis Redding; Sonny Rollins, The Bridge; Bob Dylan, Highway 61 and Blonde On Blonde; Miles Davis' Prestige Records. They comment on everything from the song Babylon Sisters to the meaning of the word grok. You can procure a copy of your own by going to the magazine's Web site, www.performingsongwriter.com.

By the way, the article says they started writing songs for 2vN in 1995, and it was done in late 1999. Lets see....if we suppose they started songwriting for The Next One in late 2000,...oh @#$, this better not mean we have to wait until 2004!

Cheers,
~Peg

Date: Thurs, May 02, 2002, 18:44:09
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Picking up a thread/question about Your Gold Teeth II... Not sure the song is that "complex," but as far as I can recall it's one of the few (only?) SD songs in 3/4 (or 6/8) time.
Now if it were 5/4, Brubeck coulda done it (an artist, a pioneer). Not sure there are many jazz waltz tunes.

Date: Wed, May 01, 2002, 19:28:07
Posted by: (name withheld),

I've kissed Donald, My Beagle, but not Donald, The Fagen. Donald, My Beagle, tried to tongue. I didn't enjoy it, but it was cute.

Date: Wed, May 01, 2002, 17:16:56
Posted by: W1P, Tarzana, CA (named after Tarzan)

Dan's Floyd Fest this Saturday May 4, 2002 at Paladino's in Tarzana, CA 6101 Reseda Blvd. Which One's Pink? has the privilege of opening for one of the finest guitarists alive -- Mike Keneally -- and his crack progressive rock/jazz band. If you are anywhere near SoCal this weekend, come down to the show and treat yourself to some Floyd done right followed by the master Mike!

Date: Wed, May 01, 2002, 14:57:48
Posted by: Trudie,

Hi!

Our newspaper has an article about Woody Alan's new movie, "Hollywood Ending." It says Woody's movie has the feel of Thelonious Monk's music. Woody is a big jazz fan. This reminded me that Donald is the Woody Allen of Rock.

Then the paper has a related article. In it, all of Woody's past leading ladies say Woody is a great kisser. It reminded me that Donald is the anti-Mick Jagger-lips of Steely Dan.

With his long, thin, quivering, up-curled lips, I was wondering, anyone here ever kiss Donald? How was it and did you tongue?

Trudie

Date: Wed, May 01, 2002, 12:39:14
Posted by: Michelle, Oakland, CA

Dan-related, as our boys won the the Les Paul Award last year.

Long story, shortened as much as I can...I was supposed to fly to New York tomorrow for a vacation and part of that trip was going to include seeing Les Paul & His Trio at the Iridium Jazz Club and I (stupidly, now I realize) already bought my tickets for the 10pm show on 5/6. My trip was cancelled. Insert big loud sigh here.

My two tickets are free if you want them, but you HAVE to use them!

Those stinkers at Tickets.com won't give me a refund, BUT the club kindly said that I can give the tickets to someone else since they're will-call. I believe that Les Paul is great and important and I am hoping that some New York Dan fan shares this belief and will want to go see him in my stead.

The thought of missing this show, (especially considering I already paid for it, grrrr) is only made worse by the thought of the tickets going to waste and I can't stand it.

Email me if you are a New York Dan fan and want to see Les Paul on Monday night. All I ask is that if you meet him after the show (apparently he mingles and chats afterwards) tell him that Michelle from California sent you and she says Hi and thanks for all those great records.

This is a totally legit, no-strings offer, I swear on all my Steely Dan records.

Michelle
montano8@yahoo.com

Date: Wed, May 01, 2002, 11:45:38
Posted by: hoops,

No, Whatevah. This isn't by search engine, but a regular. It could be cool, if they'd take time to inject some Steely Dan humor. Like write it as a verse of a Steely Dan lyric satirizing the parallels between Cardinal Law and Kenneth Liay and, the Church and the Oil biz… (Saw an op-ed piece that did this cleverly if not humoursly.)

Bottom line, if t'ain't funny, it no work in Dandom.

h

Date: Wed, May 01, 2002, 11:27:43
Posted by: Whatevah happens,

I think SD sites are getting spam about gas/oil etc. because of SD's new gas station graphic on the home page. It's probably causing us to get "hit" by those spammers' search programs

Earl

April 2002 BlueBook Entries