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All Times are Eastern (New York City) Time Zone.
Date: Thurs, October 31, 2002, 23:51:10 For us Steely Dan fans, there was and still is nothing else like Pete Fogel and Bill
Pascador's paper-based fan magazine, Metal Leg. Even if there was
no Steely Dan-connected tour or album on the way, Metal Leg provided
quality info for the discerning Steely Dan fan. Recently, I moved and found
all of my Metal Leg issues and began to read them all over again. Thanks to the loving
dedication of Steely Dan super-fan, John Granatino, more than a few issues of
Metal Leg are archived on-line at http://www.granatino.com/sdresource/mlintro.htm
. However, there are few issues that have yet to appear on the Internet. The
following Metal Leg interview with Georg Wadenius appears here on the
Internet (via the BlueBook and the Dandom Digest) for the first time.
As usual, my apologies for any typos that are mine. Can't wait to hear your
comments. And thanks to Pete Fogel! Note: Pete's Great Steely Dan website is at http://www.asan.com/users/petefogel/
and Le Bar Bat's is at http://www.lebarbat.com —h George Wadenius, that's Georg without the "E", is joining the
Steely Dan '94 orchestra as their new guitarist. Filling Drew Zingg's shoes
is not an easy task, but Georg, a native of Sweden now living in New Jersey,
is up to the challenge. With years of studio and touring experience with such
names as a Blood, Sweat & Tears, Simon and Garfunkel, and Roberta Flack,
Georg's association with Steely Dan actually started with playing on Donald's
"Century's End" and "Kamakiriad." Although Georg has been
mostly been viewed as a rhythm guitarist, he's ready to step out and he's a
helluva soloist. In this interview conducted in late-Spring '94, Pete Fogel
talks to the new Steely Dan guitarist.
Metal Leg- When did you come to New York from Sweden?
©1994 Pete Fogel; reprinted here by kind permission.
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Date: Fri, October 25, 2002, 17:31:10
Posted by: hoops,
Live from Sweden, it's Georg Wadenius
George Wadenius- The first time was in 1972. I was working with Blood,
Sweat and Tears; that lasted for three and a half years.
ML-Was that the band with Al Kooper?
GW- No, Al Kooper was in '67, I think. The band that I was in had a singer
named Gary Fisher from down in Louisiana, otherwise there was a bunch of guys,
Booby Columby, Steve Katz, but there was a lot of changes—Lou Marini came
in and so did Tom Malone.
ML- Did you play on any records?
GW- Yeah, I played on some records—one was called "No Sweat,"
one was "Mirror Image," and one was "New City."
ML- Did they let you stretch out on these albums?
GW- A little. It was mostly rhythm, I did play some solos. I played a
long solo on "Maiden Voyage."
ML- When did you work with Grace Slick?k
GW- I played on an album of hers, it must have been about 1979-80 and
I don't know what came of it.
ML- You also played with the Saturday Night Live Band.
GW- I got the gig through a couple of guys in Blood, Sweat and Tears.
I came back to New York after being back in Sweden for a couple of years. Tom
Malone and Lou Marini were doing the Saturday Night Live gig and I had contacts
with them. They decided to get another guitar player and I and a few other guys
auditioned for the gig and I got it. That was a good gig.
ML- Was Eddie Murphy a cast member at that time?
GW- Yeah. I started the last season with Belushi and Ackroyd and then
with Murphy and Piscopo.
ML- You also worked with Roberta Flack, right?
GW- Yeah, I toured with her in 1980. That was something I got through
doing Saturday Night Live because her bass player Marcus Miller recommended
me for her gig. I only played with her for perhaps a year. Roberta was going
to Australia, but we were going to have our second child and it was a month
away so I couldn't go. That was one of my all-time favorite gigs.
ML- Was it mostly rhythm guitar you were playing?
GW- Yeah, with Roberta mostly rhythm.
ML- What about playing with Simon and Garfunkel?
GW- There were some lead things, but it was mostly rhythm.
ML- You told me you have an eight-track recording studio in your house.
GW- Yeah, I write for commercials every now and then.
ML- You've also recently been involved in projects with a couple of guys
who have worked with Pat Metheny.
GW- Yeah, it's a band called Elements with Mark Egan, Danny Gottlieb
and Cliff Ward. Cliff is currently out now with James Taylor.
ML- Moving to Steely Dan, word has it that Donald and Walter are now
into using bass players and guitarists with funny last names. Do you think that's
how you were chosen?
GW- (Laughs) I hope there's something more to it than that.
ML- What was the first project that you've worked with then on ?
GW- The first thing I worked on was the soundtrack to "Bright Lights,
Big City." That was because of Rob Mounsey, I know him from commercials.
ML- This was the first time you worked with Donald?
GW- Yeah. Rob was the one that brought me in to do that and that's when
I met Donald. It was kind of a bluesey thing that we did, you know.
ML- If you watch the movie, there's a lot of fills. Did you play any
of the music in between the scenes?
GW- I only played on two things and one of them was "Century's End."
ML- Did you play that alone or with a rhythm section?
GW- It was with rhythm section, but it could have been sequenced.
ML- Just in the studio with your headphones?
GW- Yeah.
ML- Was the song completed when you played on it?
GW- No, just drums, bass and keyboards.
ML- No vocals?
GW- No.
ML- I think that song started a new sound for Donald.
GW- I've always liked Donald and Walter's stuff. I've always loved that
guitar work.
ML- When did you first start listening to them?
GW- Probably when I was with Blood, Sweat and Tears. There was some great
unique stuff about them. I remember meeting Elliot Randall in 1973 or 1974 and
talking to him about it.
ML- Did you see them live back in 1974?
GW- No, I never did.
ML- Do you think that your time in Blood, Sweat and Tears has helped you to work with Donald and Walter?
GW- In a sense I think it's a maturity process when you come into a situation
and you're working for someone else. Some people come in thinking they're really
hot shit and what they do is the right stuff; whereas I really learned in the
last ten years to come in and someone asks you to do a certain thing and it's
okay. You ask them what they mean if you don't understand and you just communicate.
It's been good for my ego to do that, so when I get to work for somebody like
Donald and Walter who are sometimes very specific as to what they want, I don't
have any ego that gets in the way.
ML- You played on "Century's End" and around that time you
gave Walter a record that you had played lead on?
GW- Yeah, we did actually get together and just jam together one day.
This was two or three years ago.
ML- When they called you in to do "Kamakiriad" were you thinking
"I'm going to be doing rhythm again?"
GW- No, I really didn't have any idea what it was. I assumed it was rhythm.
For some reason I have not been doing much lead work in New York at all. On
commercials I do tons of lead work, but on records I haven't.
ML- So now you're going out on tour with them and playing all these great
songs that let the guitar players shine, and yet they really have little concrete
evidence of your lead guitar playing. It's a little weird.
GW- Right, I think so, too. They must have talked to someone or I guess
they just trust that I can do it.
ML- Does any song from "Kamakiriad" stick out in your mind
as being the hardest to achieve what Donald and Walter were looking for?
GW- Yeah, I can't remember exactly what song it was , but it was a couple
of songs towards the end. "Teahouse on the Tracks" was one that was
kind of hard. What's the one about the amusement park?
ML- "Springtime."
GW- "Springtime," yeah. Basically I [am] doubling what the
keyboard is doing. That was a hard part because the voicings were so clustered
and it's not so easy to play on a guitar.
ML- Which one was the easiest?
GW- The first one on the album.
ML- "Trans-Island Skyway." Did you play on every song?
GW- Yeah, that's the only one where I have a few fills.
ML- Were you the only musician in the studio?
GW- No other musicians, just Donald and Walter and an engineer, Wayne
Yurgelun or Tony Volante. Roger Nichols wasn't there when I worked with Tony,
it was either Roger or one of the other two guys. When we started working up
at River Sound, that was with Roger.
ML- Have you been familiarizing yourself with some of the Steely Dan
tunes in preparation for the tour?
GW- Yeah, I go through a couple of days and listen to a lot of their
stuff.
ML- If Donald and Walter came up to you and said, "Georg, pick three
songs to play live," which ones would you pick?
GW- It's hard. I love "The Royal Scam" album. I think it's
my favorite of their albums because I love Larry Carlton's playing. I'm surprised
they didn't do "Kid Charlemagne" because that's a killer.
ML- I heard they did rehearse it.
GW- I like "Third World Man," but I like a lot of their stuff.
Musically I'm really into tunes that are a little different. I'm not so much
into their earlier stuff. I'm much more into "The Royal Scam" and
on. I like a few tunes on "Katy Lied," too.
ML- Did you see any of the shows last year?
GW- I saw the one at Madison Square Garden. I think the sound was horrible,
but I loved the band. It was just a bad mix. It was all bass drum, I couldn't
hear Tom Barney's bass playing at all.
ML- What was your impression of Drew?
GW- I thought he was great, very impressive. He has great chops. I don't
have the chops he has.
ML- Drew told us that you gave him a ring and asked him about his rig
and stuff.
GW- Yeah, I did, because I wanted to find a guitar that had a Gibson
scale, which is a slightly smaller scale than a Fender, but still has a Fender
sound. I knew he had one built. They never quite sound like Fenders, they never
have the Fender scale, so I ended up not having it built.
ML- How would you describe the difference between your playing and Drew's
playing?
GW- That would be very hard to tell. We both have different personalities.
ML- Are you consciously do anything different?
GW- They gave me a tape of the shows from last summer. I listened to
his playing and he plays a lot of great stuff and I think I have to learn what
it is in a way, and then I really have to move myself away from it and not be
too affected by it. If we did "Kid Charlemagne," I'd probably play
the solo exactly the way it is because that is almost important as the tune,
I think.
ML- When do you start rehearsals for the tour?
GW- Beginning of August.
ML- Have they given you any hints about what songs you might be doing?
GW- They said there might be five or six different tunes, so that will
be interesting to see what that means. No, they didn't tell me which ones. As
soon as they know they're supposed to let me know. We're only gonna rehearse
for a week and a half—if that even—and it's a lot to learn 25-30 tunes.
ML- Have you any idea why they keep changing musicians around?
GW- I don't know why. Maybe it's to keep it interesting for themselves.
ML- Have you ever played with Dennis Chambers or Tom Barney before?
GW- Dennis was on the Saturday Night Live band for a couple of years
and I've done a lot of sessions with him. I know Tom pretty well. And I know
Warren Bernhardt, too.
ML- Do you have any funny Donald and Walter stories to share?
GW- Walter's funny because he's called me a couple of times. One of the
things I did with Blood, Sweat and Tears was a lot of scat singing and I have
talked to Walter about that. So once he was doing an album with Jeremy Steig
and he wanted me to play on that and he called me up and the first thing he
says is (in a disguised voice) "Oooh, are you so and so?" and I say
"Sure" and he'd say "Well, I'm a producer here in L.A. and I'm
really looking for that characteristic scat singing sound and I remember hearing
you on some record a while ago and I wonder if you could come out here and…"
After a while he said, "Hi, it's Walter." He really had me going.
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaSeparated at birth? Steely Dan and Stevie Wonder parallels ...
- Suspiciously similar initials: SD <--> SW Coincidence? (they also seem to turn up very close to one another in the record store bins)
- Penchant for loooonnnggg outros (always groovy, though)
- Insert foreign phrases into English lyrics:
"Todo esta bien chevere" (SW- Don't You Worry 'Bout a Thing [tr: "Everything's real cool" -- mainly a Venezuelan phrase])
"E l'era del terzo mondo" (SD- Third World Man [tr: "Things are also cool here in the 3rd World"])
- Began under the tutelage of a pop talent-meister only to emerge as independent, highly creative artists (SW - Barry Gordy; SD - Gary Katz)
- Anatomy and numerology: Fingertips Pt 2 - Wonder; Your Gold Teeth II - Dan
- Lots of great female back-up singers
- Hit a creative peak in the late 70s/early 80s and then disappeared from the freaking planet
Makes you wonder what was the REAL message behind "Were You Blind That Day?" And why they changed the name ...
Posted by: hoops, ChicagoGee, I take the students out on a site visit and come back all this discussion.
Caught Warren Zevon on Letterman last night. Now I am a casual fan. I really like his stuff but I'm not thoroughly familiar with it all. The appearance was very melancholy. I remember Zevon on Letterman in the past but it didn't click Letterman was truly a big fan.
The sad part of the appearance was that Zevon's voice wasn't as powerful as it once was and he was clearly straining and reaching for breath. Very sad. Yet, that was also the most inspiring part since he did go on for three songs. He could have easily chose not to perform at all. "Genius" was my favorite number. Zevon really reminds me of Walter Becker, although, my casual knowledge of Zevon's songs aside, Becker's stuff seems better thought out. I could maybe see Becker performing "Genius."
Tom Dowd passed away. Cause of death of emphysema. He was 77 and he has worked with Clapton, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Derek and The Dominoes, Aretha Franklin and many other Atlantic Records greats; he worked on John Coltrane's "Giant Steps." Pretty damn amazing: To be associated with so much talent says a lot. He was a pioneer in the recording of stereo and bought the second eight-track multi-track recorder ever made, right after Les Paul bought the first. The NY Times will have its obituary up until next Tuesday at http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/30/obituaries/30DOWD.html
MCA Remasters: There's a lot of ways to esteem Steely Dan. The great music itself, their clever and witty lyrics, and, of course, the pristine approach to recording. As one guy put it on that Vh-1 Storytellers segment, "Steely Dan is how I test my stereo equipment" or something to that effect. SD sure doesn't remaster their ABC/MCA catalog to generate revenue. I've gathered that their royalty deal with MCA sucks. These remasters are all about them checking out the latest recording technology and even reinventing it along the way. Not sure who said what if at all, but no way should you think twice about not buying these. They ARE new Steely Dan releases, if you ask me. Get'em! I haven't regretted it.
Speaking of new technology, received a Digest post about Universal (parent of MCA Records) planning Steely Dan releases in Sony's SACD format. Earlier this year I had posted that Universal was in the SACD camp and wondered what it meant for the old Steely Dan catalog. Afterall, Steely associate Elliot Scheiner is the most prominent leader in the competing DVD-A camp. Then I posted that New York Times bit that Universal was supposedly releasing DVD-A titles. I'm skeptical that D + W would release the classic albums in SACD. I see them as huge proponents in the DVD-A camp. I remember that there was a vinyl version of 2vN in Europe, but it sure didn't have Steely Dan's seal of approval. Maybe MCA would do something similar to that, without caring about SD's input. Maybe SD want to check out SACD for these older albums. This is all my guess. I'm sure we'll hear about any SACD or DVD-A releases via Webdrone and the Official Steely Dan Newsletter. The article in question is at: http://www.stereophile.com/shownews.cgi?1476
I'm a touch too busy to comment on this bit about the Gaucho demos and chat rooms, but will later on today when I am not so busy.
h
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA
Steely-folk:
Incidentally, I have been seeking any possible connection to anyone who has a high quality boot of anything from the 2000 'Two Against Nature' tour, i.e. along the lines of what Andy Metzger had up on his site for a while; I'm also looking for better copies of "You Got The Bear," "Were You Blind That Day," and "Kind Spirit," as I've been tracking down other things and never got a chance to acquire good copies of those either. Thanks in advance to whomever-
"No fooling it's a fucked up world..." - Walter Becker, 'Junkie Girl'
Randy
NIGHTFLY62@aol.com
Posted by: edbeatty, Earl,Hoops and who ever else
I second the nomimation of the concept of a Blue Book based chat facilty.
Here Here
Ed Beatty
Posted by: Earl, DelawareTooters: You're wrong. There's plenty to talk about regarding Steely Dan, just look at THE REAL GUESTBOOK. Sure we don't have 5 posts and hour, but we get posts with relatively pertainent material. Unlike the SIS book which rarely mentions Steely Dan.
Granted, any chat room that you enter is going to contain the same obnoxious flirting, the same inane chit-chat about nothing, and the same wise-aleck who tries to make a joke about everything. But what's the point of a Steely Dan chat room if a person is ridiculed for trying to start a discussion about Steely Dan?
And I'd second a Blue Book chat room, if some of the regulars would come in and chat on occasion. I'd have to guess that Hoops has thought this over before, since a chatroom is the next logical step for this website.
Earl
Posted by: McMurdo's Ghost, gatherin the clanHey hey mike You can have Irish Whiskey OR Scotch Whisky up to you
AND I would die to hear whoever is playin' that pedal steel on Showbiz Kids ???? espec on the remaster great understated fill in the gaps stuff (techie translate pls)
Posted by: W1P, There is a rumor floating around various Pink Floyd sites that Stevie Wonder played the keyboard into on Sheep.
Posted by: Stuart, Glen Cove, NYI wanted to thank the people (you know who you are) who offered to burn me "You Got the Bear, "Were You Blind That Day" Kind Spirit", etc, etc.
Tooters: If I would have known that St.Al had all those great outtakes for sale on his site, I would have went there in the first place. Oh well, at least I got it now. Hey, I can't get sued for this, can I? Thanks again.
Stu
Posted by: Tooters, Boo hoo Boo hoo, Hats, or is it Hooters?. May I call you Chapeau and Tits? So they made fun of you at the yellow. Get over it or maybe write your congressman. So what if St. Al doesn't like the new remasters? If he jumps in a lake will you? At least his site has a swap page where you can get the Gaucho boot with "You Got The Bear" "Were You Blind That Day" and "Kind Spirit" , especially since Andy Metzger's is dead. Hoops doesn't do that for us. You people just have to realize everyone's got nothing to say because there's not a new album. We just need a new one and it will be all o.k. Meanwhile get a life, or if you can't help yerself, get on over to St. Als and get him to give you the new "Gaucho" stuff. BBuying the old crap again and again is a borefest.
Oh yeah, My danfest review. Nobody came and nobody cared.
See ya---on the yellow.
Toot
Posted by: DrMµ, perfection 7 graceHoward; For me, especially on TvN, it's the elegant communication between the instruments - examples:
(1) Walter's threatening guitar, drums, and Donald's Rhodes in the intro to What a Shame About Me
(2) The conversation among the vibes, drums, and bass during the instrumental break in Negative Girl
Dan songs with some underpinning or commentary on humans as political and social animals acquiring, scheming, or losing power...never blatant, always clever and intelligent and told within a story as lightly woven yet tough Kevlar fabric as Donald assumes a new character in each song...
Kings
Only a Fool Would Say That
Change of the Guard
Bodhisattva
Show Biz Kids
King of the World
My Old School (Daddy G)
Barrytown
Pretzel Logic
With a Gun
Black Friday
Chain Lightning
Caves of Altamira
Don't Take Me Alive
Sign in Stranger
Haitian Divorce
Royal Scam
Glamour Profession
Third World Man
IGY
Green Flower Street
New Frontier
Goodbye Look
Girlfriend (cute little bunny)
Hat Too Flat
Fall of '92 (OK, this one's blatant)
Posted by: Hats'n' Hooters, Excellent oratory, Tristan. Like others, I agree that if you were to pipe in with your comments more frequently and in smaller doses, you would create better dialog between us. The talk would still be fresh in our minds. The political discussion you complain about was four months ago. In that case, you'd serve everyone better by letting sleeping dogs die.
Tristan had a good post, but, Paige, why would you want to forward that post to Donald and Walter? Tristan disses Walter's amazing guitar playing.
Don't know what Kelly Dwyer is implying, but I nominate Randy and Howard's most recent posts as best of the month. Astute points, no pretensions.
Ed, I agree. I miss you from when the yellow pages were the GOLDEN yellow pages. When the last Steely Dan newsletter came out, I went to Banyan Trees chat. I wanted to talk about the new news and what people thought about it. Boy, was I wrong. Not only were people not chatting about it, they made fun of me when I attempted to talk about the newsletter. They were too busy talking about themselves. It reminded me of why I stopped contributing there. Once, I was chatting about upgrading to the new Steely Dan remasters. StAl made fun of me for buying them---FOR BUYING STEELY DAN CDS!!! Gimme a break. Hoops, this place would be a helluva lot better if you had a chat room. All that it would have is Steely Dan chat.
John, Roberta Flack is way, way overrated.
Posted by: Earl, DelawareHoward - I agree completely. At first I thought that there was something wrong w/ my CD. But then I listened more closely and it kinda sounds like a bug buzzing. And although it's very strange, it's something that makes their songs so interesting. Kinda like that single note hit on the piano in the 3rd verse of WOH after "Sadly for us." Things that you take for granted in the arrangement because you get so used to hearing them.
Earl
Posted by: Earl, Delaware I went out and bought "The Art of Steely Dan," simply because I thought it was about a long-lost member of the Dan named Art. Needless to say, I ended up buying a book that has a lot of good conversation about the song structure and devices used by the guys. Although I'm sure David Pearl had little or no direct input into the analysis from D+W, his points seem to correlate to the thinking that they could have used in writing and arranging the songs. Pearl also seems to have the music details right, even though for the best ear it can be tough to discern some of the denser harmonies in the music.
As I said, the commentary is pretty sophisticated, and most times it contains musical examples of the point being forwarded in the discussion. I'm not necessarily saying to buy it, because it could be looked at as "just another Steely Dan songbook." It is however a little different because it contains more commentary, which is a nice diversion from the usual incorrect chord naming/voicings that plague SD songbook material. I think if you are a Dan fan who has an interest in music theory, song structure, and musical complexity, this is a songbook you will find interesting.
Earl
Posted by: Howard,
Tristan - another thought-provoking post, much welcomed. One thing I must clear up though:
The post (9/18/02 - 16:08:37) that you referred to which claimed “everyone is named Bruce, whether they know it or not.” was not written by myself, as the archives show. It was by "norm", one of the many Bruces to post that day. For useful background information, which may or may not go some way to answering some of the many "What the f***?" questions that others were no doubt quietly mouthing on that day, please refer to http://www.rraz.co.uk/alexs/Python/MontyPython3.htm
On the subject of Walter's Gaslighting solo, is there something that has been overlooked here? My feeling has always been that the repetitive nature of the solo was deliberately chosen to match the subject of the song. Is the song not about scaring/annoying the hell out of an unfortunate, soon-to-be-ex, partner? In this light, the edgy guitar solo that refuses to resolve itself makes perfect sense.
I also agree with Randy in his praise of Walter's solo on the title track of Two Against Nature - this is one of his best moments on the album.
Although Walter reaches some highs on the album during other solos, I feel that much of his best work is in the short bluesy lines and fills that are sprinkled liberally throughout many of the songs. In the finest blues traditions, the guitar enjoys a dialogue with the voice, answering to and providing balance for the vocal phrases. It's here that I've found many of my favourite moments of Walter on guitar.
One guitar idea from 2VN that I've always loved is the quiet note that is sustained throughout the whole of the repeated intro section of Jack of Speed, which comes just before the outtro and fade. It has that "string-vibrato-scraping-the-neck-and-frets" kind of tone that reminds me very much of the first seconds of Jimi Hendrix' Foxy Lady. On Jack of Speed the sound is more subtle, though it contributes a definite feeling of unease as it sustains, again on a flat 7th as in the Gaslighting solo, throughout that section. A nice touch.
Howard
Posted by: Earl, DelawareYo Tristan...do you have a day job? Geez, I've seen theses that are an easier read than your tome. Did you take time out from the recording studio to come up with that novel?
Earl
Posted by: President of The Tristan Fan Club... , Yo!Tristan!
Nice post bud. I like the 2003 setlist. Baxter on pedal steel for 'Razor Boy'? I hope you know something we don't.
Later...
Posted by: President of The Tristan Fan Club... , Yo!Tristan!
Nice post bud. I like the 2003 setlist. Baxter on pedal steel for 'Razor Boy'? I hope you know something we don't.
Later...
Posted by: heymike, These suburban streetsI'm printing Tristan's post, binding it and taking it to bed!
with a Scotch Whiskey
Posted by: ed beatty, Temecula CaHi,
Oh My god...Semi-Regular Intelligent Steely Dan discussions.
Thanks for the Blue Book Hoops.
Ed
Posted by: Paige, Santa BarbaraSomeone...please forward Tristan's post to Walter and Donald now! The best post I have ever read here or anywhere.
-Paige
Posted by: Randy , Northern NJ/USA
Steely Dan's Walter Becker and Donald Fagen have indicated in numerous interviews that the various albums in the band's lexicon have different instrumental accentuation (which is obvious from even a cursory listening); 'Katy Lied' (1975) has emphasis on the (Bosendorfer) piano; 'The Royal Scam' (1976) has more emphatic use of drums and guitar; 'Gaucho' (1980) relies more on synthesizers and drum machines. Each album differs from the last, which is not to suggest that each chronological stylistic change was "planned" per se; it was simply a change (or an advancement, dependent upon the context) from the last collection of sounds and songs. None of these changes should be seen as a loss or a down-step, as the most important element of an artist or musician is to grow, change, and/or evolve. Repetition is death; thus it is better to try something new and fail than repeat oneself.
On 'Two Against Nature' (2000), after having already explored these previous variations, Becker and Fagen chose not to place as much emphasis on the drum parts as they had on 'The Royal Scam' or 'Aja' (1977); I for one find that the strident drum accompaniment for the coda to "West of Hollywood" to be an interesting idea; it places all attention on the solo, the soloist, and the song's chord progression, challenging the listener's expectation(s). Becker's "one note" guitar solo on "Gaslighting Abbie" was also well-planned for the same reason - that particular multi-layered track has so much going on, it was good not to detract from it with what could have been an unnecessarily ostentatious guitar solo; it simply didn't need anything else.
Becker's solo on the title track of 'Two Against Nature' is a marvel of twisting runs and finely executed notes, again exactly what the song called for, and as well played and conceived as any by Carlton, Randall, Baxter, Parks, or Becker previously. Unlike most other artists in this day and age, Steely Dan have accomplished the rarity of maintaining the level of artistic integrity begun with their previous works, putting themselves in the enviable position of being able to continue their legacy of great music.
"No static at all" - Steely Dan, 'FM'
Randy
NIGHTFLY62@aol.com
Posted by: Michelle, NJDonald, is that really you? I can't wait for your reply! Before New Years I hope.
Bye
Michelle
Posted by: Donald Fagen, Wonderland Tristan: I'll get right back to you with a response.
Posted by: Michelle, NJOne more thing for Tristan. Why do you wait so long to respond to everyone's posts? I had forgotten about a lot of these. You should respond as each person posts so they know you care about their answer. This waiting too months to make your grand entrance is kinda crappy. I hope I don't have to wait until New Years for your response. I really am interested in what you will say.
Bye and thank you in advance for your reply.
Michelle
Posted by: Michelle, Princeton Junction, NJDear Tristan Love-I'm sure you are an intelligent man but your writing is really tedious to read. You sound like a man. Are you connected to Skunk or that british recording engineer guy from the 1974 shows? Are you actually either of them in real life? Have you worked with Steely Dan? I feel like this is that Tv game show What's My Line. I think the high pressure from you might put Donald off if you use it when writing him. But I know you mean well. How will Donald get all the players back to redub their parts on the old 1974 recordings? You have to have dubs on a Steely Dan album. It wouldn't even sound the same.
Speaking of dubs, I read the record Kiss Alive was mostly re-recorded in studio before being released. It reminded me of Alive In America. I think if the word Alive appears in an album title, it means it's based on a live album with lots of overdubs.
Just opining my lil' Ol'opinion I hope I didn't use opining wrong.
Michelle
Posted by: Terzomando Wind, The Scurvy BrothersCiao Everybody,
The Scurvy Brothers are proud to present a show dedicated to one of the greatest records of all time in the occasion of its 20 years: "The Nightfly"
The band will cover the entire album plus some other hits Donald at Big Mama in Rome, Italy Vicolo di S. Francesco a Ripa, 18 for three nights1/2/3 November 2002 at 10,30pm
If you're in our country..don't miss it.
"What a beautiful night this will be...."
Ciao
The Scurvy Brothers
http://www.geocities.com/terzomando
http://www.bigmama.it
Posted by: sharkdeville, the sticksJust to clarify:
My 3 favorite Dan guitarists are indeed Skunk, Denny, and Walter. But not necessarily in that order. Just as no one could have come up w/ Skunk's solos on "Rikki" and "My Old School", etc... no one else would have played what Denny did on "Parker's Band" and "YGT II" (two of my all-time favorite solos)...
And I just love the unpredictability of Walter's playing. Each solo is like a new discovery. He's got a very percussive rhythmic style as well.
I also love Randall, Carlton, Parks, and Graydon (that one solo goes a long way!)
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, ChiBest ... post ... ever?
At least for this month...
Posted by: hoops, "Tristan":
Now that I've been able to read it a bit more, I will offer these quick comments.
1) The political stuff was humour in the spirit of Steely Dan. Steely Dan is pretty much never overtly political but definitely they are subversively so. As facilitator, my take on the whole two weeks of "political" discussion you refer to was that it was jestful sparring in the subversive spirit of the Dan. The point was that "Jeb Bush" and certain others were making fun of such people who DO take it so seriously. It was FUNNY in a Dan sorta way! I understand it's not everyone's bag. I get complaints from people who don't like the chords discussion, either. I personally can't read music so I don't get it, but I do love the spirit it is in. I'm glad there were these posts.
No, I'm not going to go around stamping posts with my perceptions as to what I think a post is about. If I stamp a post "Warning: POLITICS" I might end up realizing later that it should be "Warning: STEELY INSPIRED SATIRE" Should I start posting "Warning: TECHNICAL CHORD DISCUSSION"? No. There's a few posts I even pass on.
I think it was an interesting tangent, I wouldn't want it to be like that all the time, and, most of all, posts—many superb—to the Bluebook have doubled ever since then. I think as a result of those couple of weeks, the Bluebook as an overall community got a sense of humour, relaxed a bit and paved the way for some truly fine posts, even if the politics weren't your bag.
2) I love Walter's guitar playing on 2vN and on the 2000 tour. I think the Jon and Walter pairing works heavenly and hope it continues or evolves to something better.
3) I respect Baxter's immense talents but I can't ever see him playing with Steely Dan again. The Doobies? Yes.
4) Yeah, I think it would be great to see Denny play with the Dan again. I could see it.
5) I don't see us as "resigning" to Becker/Fagen releasing 1974 material. I just don't see it happening, just like I don't see them ever coming out with an official version of "The Second Arrangement." I think the current grey recordings of these shows from the 70s match up pretty well with what these shows were all about. Anything's possible, but most likely these would only come out in about 50 years when Becker and Fagen's great, great nephews need cash.
6) I don't agree with everything Tristan says; as a strictly personal preference, I'm not even sure of his style writing or his/her insistence on anonymity, but I am very appreciative of the discussion and intelligent disagreement he has brought to the Blue.
h
Posted by: hoops, "Flabbergasted"
Not quite. At the bottom of the posting page it says, "Posts can only feature HTML codes and hyperlinks by request."
This Tristan guy/gal requested. S/he actually sent this "post" last week as a fucking MS Word file with formatting requests and tags. If you have ever had to clean up MS Word tags like I just did, you know why I called it "fucking."
The best thing to do is put your tags in the box and periodically during the day I check and clean up. Or E-me if it is urgent. Yes, this is far from "a mix of elegance and function.".
Hope that explains the fine print. Anything to encourage posts, not to mention my obsession with typography.
h
Posted by: jon @ his yellow stripe, I caught Beau Bolero several times at Toad's Place in New Haven many years ago and was very impressed by them. Don't know what's become of them since the late 70s though.
A couple of Tour Rehearsal cuts that show up on a "Gaucho Outtakes" CD is supposedly them.
Posted by: Flabergasted , HeavenYou mean bold tags work here? We-ell, goodbye yellow sky, hello Blue!!!woohoo! hoo! hoo...
Posted by: Tristan Gustave Fabriani III, San Francisco, CA
Skunkmeisterly Follow-Up
I would like to respond to the
postings that to date have replied to my panegyric to Skunk Baxter. All but a few were very fine and several
were outstanding. One of the most
objective and balanced evaluations of the entire “comparative question”
on SD guitarists and solos was posted by a certain “Howard” (aka
Bruce from Pommyland ) on 9/18/02 - 08:11:02. After all the impassioned comparisons have been made, one may
confidently repair to his praiseworthy post for its sound and irenic perspective. A well-deserved two thumbs up from Ebert & Roeper.
However, I am unable to silently
pass over a highly disconcerting assertion from the otherwise astute author
from Pommyland in another posting of his (9/18/02 - 16:08:37) which declared that “everyone
is named Bruce, whether they know it or not.” Well, Bruce (aka “Howard” yes?): you have no idea what a thorough disruption this contention of yours has
caused among my staff here at Pretzel Logic & Analysis, Inc. Anxious to ascertain whether or not they
have been laboring for years under a drastic misnomer, they have for the moment
completely abandoned their dedication to “The August Subject.” Instead, they are now found obsessively perusing the Internet for those
genealogical researchers that, for the payment of a tidy sum, trace one’s
family coat-of-arms, etc. To date,
my staff members have not reached any definitive conclusion as to whether they,
too, are all named Bruce, but I will present the outcome of their research in
my next posting. During the interim,
however, I would in all earnestness offer you some admittedly unsolicited, but
nevertheless well-intentioned, advice: WHATEVER YOU DO, MY GOOD FELLOW, FOR GOD’s SAKE, AND, INDEED, YOUR
OWN, REFRAIN FROM SHARING YOUR REVELATION WITH PEG. (Cf. “Not
in Lock-up, Just Visiting,” 9/17/02, 16:07:07)
With
regard to the topicality of politics on the Bluebook, Dan Akroyd’s post
(9/16/02 - 20:13:32) proposes this criterion: if a subject (such as a swipe at the Bush clan) is found in the lyrics
(such as in The Fall of ’92), it is by definition topical and, hence, Bluebookworthy. If this is so, shall the Bluebook contain
endless postings debating the pros and cons of incest (a la Cousin Dupree), gambling addiction (a la Do It Again), guru worship (a la Bodhisattva), the phenomenon of homelessness and squalor
(a la Charlie Freak), the use of
condoms (a la The Fez), criminal
psychopathology and law enforcement (a la Don’t Take Me Alive), etc., etc.? It is one thing to interpret the lyrics;
it is quite another to separate out one aspect of them and then absolutize it
in a manner that completely dissociates it from the overall ‘Dansterly
purpose and context of this discursive forum. Such a criterion suffers from a reductionist
tendency. It does not work well.
Akroyd also proposes what is
essentially a “reasonable man” standard permitting an “occasional”
Bluebook discussion on politics, and he claims that the extent of political
debate on The Bluebook “is never excessive.” It ain’t necessarily so. A few months back The Bluebook was almost exclusively about
national and/or international politics. I scrolled through the political spats in total exasperation looking
in vain for something to appear that actually concerned the ‘Dan and/or
its illustrious alumni, all the while recalling Larry Carlton’s great
lamentation, revealed in an interview a few years ago, that when he was playing
endless takes on various tunes on The Royal Scam he began to ask himself “are
these guys ever going to like anything
I do?” The “reasonable
man” standard is exceedingly subjective and vulnerable to significant
interpretative variation, primarily by unreasonable folk (reasonably speaking,
of course).
In one recent posting (9/23/02,19:39:33),
Hoops indicated that contemplation is pending of more detailed set of criteria
for the contents of the Bluebook. Aw,
shucks, here’s my two piasters on the criteria: if there’s a politically-minded
posting, simply post the word “POLITICS” in large boldfaced print
by it, so as to facilitate the speed with which I may skip it; and further,
place a “link” to CNN right next to that boldfaced print so that
the Zman from Vegas may, with but one mouse click, peruse the other profound
“Steely Dan news” on the CNN website (Cf. 9/23/02‹18:05:13). Then add additional “links”
to all the think-tank
discussion forums, so as to assist the Loyal Fandom in perusing the topical
national and international Steely Dan issues of the day. Invite the webmasters of each of these
sites in turn to post a link back to the Bluebook so that contemporary political
pundits may savor the abundance of savvy, albeit occasionally testy, postings
about the latest politics or various Presidential administrations that the Bluebook
contributors with evident wit have contributed under the liberally construed
rubric of “Dandom.”
Akroyd
also notes that D&W to date have been reluctant to grant permission to Dinky
Dawson to authorize the official release of a live 1974 concert, and he expresses
his ‘druthers that things were otherwise. Ditto them ‘druthers. Akroyd then surmises that D&W may consider that the few
available bootlegs sufficiently represent the “Paleozoic period”
of Steely Dan which is not the ‘Dan as it is “today.” “Her brother” from Chinatown
goes much further than this vicarious surmising and infamously asserts that
the 1974 concerts really do not matter; that the set lists and songs were all
the same; and that if one has heard the 3/20/74 Record Plant concert, one has
essentially heard all the 1974 concerts (Cf. 9/17/02 - 03:58:30).
Chinatown is clearly distinguished
for the fact that it contains one very definite exception to the rule that the
Loyal Fandom is distinguished from all other fandoms for its peerless listening
skills. Of all of the SD tours,
the ’74 tour contained the most improvisation. Nor were
the set lists the just the same from one show to the next, at least certainly
not any more than the modern tours have varied or retained their respective
set lists. Among the handful of
tapes that exist from the '74 tour one will note a tremendous variety in solo
guitar, keyboards and drums, as well as in the bass lines. This is obvious from even the most cursory
listening. (But if one accurately
wishes to assert “if you’ve heard this one, you’ve heard them
all,” one need only recall that the guitar solo on Peg was absolutely
identical from the first SD concert
in May of 2000 to the final European gig later in September. Does that qualify as “Paleozoic”?)
Sharkdeville (for whom the word
“percipient” is a manifest understatement, given his terrific and
thoroughly edifying post of 9/21/02 - 11:46:39) is correct when he suggests
that all of the 1974 concerts should
be released, thereby demonstrating the truth of the saying that “you can’t
get too much of a good thing,” or in this case a of “a damn good
thang.” After all, as we
(almost all) know by now: “If it good to ya, it gotta be good fo ya.” Jerome’s profound aphorism, combined
with SharkD’s insightful suggestion, refutes any inference that the handful
of “unofficial” SD concert recordings that do exist from the ‘70s
should suffice for The Loyal Fandom.
To examine this point from a
slightly different perspective, Akroyd proclaims himself among that segment
of the Fandom that prefers the guitar playing of Denny Dias over Jeff Baxter. That is certainly a perspective for which
persuasive and interesting justifications can be set forth (personally, like
Sharkdeville, I rank Denny No. 2 in the constellation of SD guitar greats). Whatever may be our respective rankings
and the criteria concerning them, the Loyal Fandom nevertheless deserves
to hear at least one, if not several, professionally produced and complete concerts
which shows how these brilliant players held forth their chops in an environment
where they could “stretch out” without the limitations and restrictions
of the recording studio. On
the ’74 tour, Denny Dias (no less than Skunk Baxter) was a total phenomenon,
particularly on Do It Again, Bodhisattva and King of the World. The fact that D&W have not yet given the affirmative nod to Dinky
is no justification for the Fandom to resign itself to an obsequious and defeatist
attitude by failing to persist in attempting to persuade them otherwise.
Indeed, most Danfans I know
would love to hear some more from that halcyon era, and if the 7/1/74 Seattle
concert comes with the ringing endorsement of Dinky Dawson (who, after all,
is the guy who mixed the sound for that stunning ensemble and ought to know
what he is talking about) as one of the standout concerts, then I’m all
anticipation. In addition, if the
entire original ‘Dan felt the Manchester Palace Theater concert on 5/15/74
was the best ever from the Pretzel Logic Tour, I’d be just as keen to
hear a professionally mixed recording of that concert as well. There is an extant audience-recorded tape
of the Manchester concert: why
not combine it with the original soundboard tape for a kind of “surround
sound” effect? Dinky’s
an awfully smart guy, and I’ll betcha he can mix soundboard signals with
crowd reaction to utter perfection. The July 5, 1974 soundboard tape from the
Santa Monica Civic Auditorium, which was the source for the live version of
Bodhisattva on the B side of the Hey Nineteen single back in 1980 could also
be released in full, commemorating the ‘Dan’s final concert in the
‘70’s. But if not all
of the 1974 concerts can be released then a generous boxed set comprised of
the foregoing would suffice. If that’s too much to ask for the present, then let D&W
give the nod to Dinky Dawson to release the July 1, 1974 Seattle show. The release of other ‘70’s concerts can follow later on.
The observation that the ‘Dan
from the “deep, deep ‘70’s” is entirely different from
the ‘Dan “today” is nothing more than a statement of the obvious. And while the contention that the original ‘Dan was Paleozoic (or
as Fagen actually said, Jurassic) may be (and below will be) disputed, the Loyal
Fandom is entitled to have a well-documented history of the ‘Dan from
its inception to the present that includes both printed matter and recorded
material. Ergo, we should have numerous live recordings officially issued
from both the early and the modern tours. History is one thing, and satisfies often; tautology is quite
another, and satisfies rarely, if at all.
Consonant with
Akroyd’s vicarious surmising and views on the comparative guitarist question
is the opinion of Chicago’s Dennis who avers that “if you listen
to the Royal Scam and the later albums you hopefully will hear what I hear and
that is that all of those guitar parts are deadly true and fit the songs beautifully,
as well all of the parts were played by virtuosic guitarists and played with
incredible grace… something I don’t think [Skunk] has.” (9/17/02‹15:41:33). Dennis’ discussion of the superiority
of an album like ‘Scam to the earlier albums reminds me in some measure
of something Walter Becker once said in an interview—namely, that on the
early LP’s there were some tracks that were not very successful, although
they “deserved credit for trying hard” on them. I don’t think many Danfans (including myself) would dispute this
statement. Indeed, RandyNightfly62 (9/17/02, 20:36:56)
and Steveedan (9/18/02, 00:48:50) both opine that there is an evolution in D&W’s
composition and sophistication from the first to the most recent album.
I
agree with that there is some progression, but only in part, and with some qualifications. One the one hand, who could possibly rank
Through With Buzz equal to or above Kid Charlemagne, Charlie Freak equal to
or above The Fez or Turn That Heartbeat Over Again equal to or above Green Earrings? But on the other hand, in the same interview quoted above, Walter added
that there were also several tracks from each of the early LP’s that were
every bit as good as any track they ever recorded later on (i.e., in what Steveedan
aptly describes as the “Steely Dan as Studio Concept” era (9/17/02;
19:53:13)).
I’d assert that to the
standout tracks on the first three LPs may also be attached superlative case
marks for compositional and harmonic sophistication, intensity of groove, energy
and brilliance of solo performance, and the quality of the total sound. In my opinion, these standout tracks are: Do It Again, Reelin’ in the Years, Bodhisattva, Razor Boy, The
Boston Rag, My Old School, King of the World, Your Gold Teeth, Rikki Don’t
Lose That Number, Night By Night, Pretzel Logic, Any Major Dude and Parker’s
Band. I do not attach the same high marks to
the “lesser tracks” on the first three albums (Through With Buzz,
Monkey In Your Soul, etc.) because frankly these do not rank as highly either
as musical compositions or as performances , although there are certain individual aspects, i.e., certain solos,
on each that may be noteworthy.
Many critics, as well as Danfans
(including myself) consider that with The Royal Scam and Aja D&W reached
the heights of consistent compositional
brilliance and technical recording proficiency. For example, Howard aka “Bruce” from Pommyland
insightfully comments (9/18/02, 08:11:02) that “It IS very difficult to
compare guitar solos and players from different albums because the style of
music in albums like Aja and Royal Scam is so different to earlier albums.” I think probably every Danfan would agree
that on these two albums, there is not one weak track, and that D&W achieved
a truly thorough consistency in writing, arrangement and performance that is not found on either any
of the LPs prior to them. But I
will suggest below that ‘Scam and Aja are superior to any of the albums
recorded after them as well.
But before doing so, let me ask this: precisely what makes The Royal Scam such a standout album? Dennis emphasizes what he considers to be the eminently “graceful”
guitar playing found on each track as the primary reason. While ‘Scam is easily the funkiest
and most groovacious SD album (with Aja a very close second), the glory of ‘Scam
is in my view due to much more to the fact that Larry Carlton, for example,
delivered a couple of immortal (and, sure, Dennis, peerlessly graceful) guitar
solos. I’d suggest that one
reason ‘Scam and Aja are such standout recordings is that, first of all,
D&W’s writing is consistently of the highest quality with no “lesser”
tracks (i.e., Through With Buzz, Turn That Heartbeat Over Again, Charlie Freak,
Throw Back The Little Ones). Further, and more importantly, every
single instrument on ‘Scam and
Aja, including but not limited to the guitar, has a wonderful sound and unrestricted
liveliness.
For example, and perhaps above
all, the drum kit on each track of these two albums has a full and resonant
sound and was played to the fullest
rhythmic potential with incredible
diversity and groove by such luminaries as Purdie, Marotta, Keltner and Gadd. While the drumming on the standout tracks of the first three albums is
quite good, these tracks had more of a rock orientation, which is slightly less
sophisticated than some of the later jazz-oriented performances. Now, the drum kits of Jim Hodder, Jim Gordon and Jeff Porcaro certainly
all had a resonant, wonderful sound. Jim
Hodder’s playing on Reelin’ and Do It Again fully qualify as the
‘driving beat’ of which the CBAT liner notes spoke, although it
is not otherwise so evident. Jim
Gordon is exceptional on Rikki, Pretzel Logic and Parker’s Band. Jeff Porcaro is great on Night By Night and Parker’s Band. Most of the standout tracks nevertheless required a fairly formidable
level of drumming well beyond the journey-level straight-ahead timekeeper type
of drumming that is at times found on some of the “lesser tracks.”
That having been said, however,
it must also be said in all frankness—and here, Steevedan and RandyNightfly62,
is where I qualify to some extent your notion of D&W’s progressive
evolution—that the drum work on some of the tracks on Gaucho and Two Against
Nature not only falls very far short of the high standards of sound and syncopation
set by the drumming on ‘Scam and Aja but also in some cases is even less
sophisticated than the simplest drumming found on the lesser tracks of the early
Steely Dan LPs. I always felt cheated by the soulless
drum machine on some of the tracks of the much more ‘middle-of-the-road’
Gaucho album (i.e, Time Out Of Mind).
But I much more loudly lament the reduction of the live drummer
to the journey-level straight-ahead timekeeper, such as what Sonny Emory was
limited to doing on Two Against Nature’s West of Hollywood. For minutes on end the sax player noodles around this profoundly boring
and repetitive cadence which quickly loses my attention and sends me into a
curmudgeon’s tailspin during which I start yearning in earnest for the
type of stunning playing and dynamic interplay between saxophonist Wayne Shorter
and drummer Steve Gadd on the title track of Aja.
Worse still, consider the toy
sound of a drum kit fitted with a lifeless, dried out piccolo snare drum on
the studio version of Jack of Speed. (I
digress: RandyNightfly62 very tactfully
and indeed graciously calls this rendition “more conservative” than
the “positively threatening” ’96 version. (Incidentally, this was one of the few
tunes on which Wayne Krantz actually delivered an intelligible, even impressive,
guitar solo. Moreover, Walter Becker’s
vocals also fit this track to absolute perfection and should have been recorded
instead of Donald’s.) In my much less diplomatic opinion, the sorry-assed drum kit
used on the studio version of this tune should have met with the same well-deserved
fate as a certain Arp Soloist keyboard used during the recording of Countdown
to Ecstasy. For further details,
see Denny Dias’ account in his delightful article “Steely Dan: Men and Machines” at http://www.steelydan.com/dennys.html . And by golly, the next time D&W trot
out a demo song with a kick-ass groove on tour, but subsequently record it in
a greatly diluted manner that would not have garnered nearly the level of audience
applause earned in its original and down-to-the-nitty-gritty form, the CD should
come with a partial refund, to be instantly granted upon purchase, for the severely
altered track.)
The Royal Scam, and along with
it, Aja, are absolute masterpieces of drum work and drum sound. In
fact, those albums are especially impressive because the brilliance of the
drumming and richness of drum sound is right up there with the brilliance of
the guitar playing (and, yes, Dennis, with all its gracefulness). When I ponder those two LPs, I often think first of the
incredible drum sound and performances of Purdie, Gadd, Marotta and Keltner,
before I reflect on the superfine guitar playing that graces them. Such an unbelievably awe-inspiring and lasting percussive impression
is neither by a long-shot nor indeed by any account to be found on any of the
subsequent Steely Dan LPs, including any of D&W’s solo albums.
But there’s more. ‘Scam and Aja also contain some
lowdown bass guitar playing that is full of a level of vibe and outright funk
(and even laced with a bit of subtle string slapping and popping here and there,
‘neath D&W’s nose, to my unutterable delight) such as is not
to be found on any of the other SD albums before or after (with exception of
one track: even though Tom Barney doesn’t pop or slap his bass guitar
on Gaslighting Abbie, he gets two thumbs up (no pun intended) for some incredibly
great funk grooves.) This rich
bass work is the driving force, along with rhythmically and aurally resplendent
drums, behind the consummate jazz/funk grooves found on such mesmerizing tunes
as Black Cow, Peg, Josie, Kid C, The Fez, and Green Earrings. Chuck Rainey was in a zone, and those bass lines leave an impression
that approaches that of the guitar solos and the drumming. On ‘Scam and Aja, all the tracks provide an opportunity for the
instruments to be played in full swing, and there is not to be found a single
weak (Jurassic, machine-like, or journey level time-keeping) moment in any aspect
of the writing, arrangements, performance or instrumentation. These two albums achieve a consistently
high standard as no SD album before or
after. D&W have been playin’ catch-up ever since.
To be sure, Larry Carlton’s two legendary solos on DTMA and Kid Charlemagne
are certainly the highlights of ‘Scam, and represent the most energetic
guitar playing on any SD album since Jeff Baxter’s departure, notwithstanding
Walter Becker’s lone manifestation as a “wild boy” on Black
Friday, which Jeff Porcaro once appropriately characterized as “a bad
ass solo, man.” (Walter would that your guitar would blaze
and sound like that again.) But
with the exception of the imported Carlton solo on Third World Man, and maybe
some of Steve Khan’s playing on Gaucho, neither Gaucho nor Two Against
Nature contain the kind of guitar solos, bass lines or drum work comprised of
the stuff of which legend is made.
With all due deference to Cosmic WoW (Cf. 10:14:02, 12:27:21),
I am unable to find anything great to
say about Walter’s understated solo lead guitar that permeates 2vN. It is in general “OK” but
in no way memorable. The “one
note samba” that characterizes his solo on the otherwise groovemeisterly
“Gaslighting Abbie” quickly wears thin. Of this solo, Walter once said in an interview
that he tried to get as much mileage as possible out of one note, but the fact
is that you can only get so much mileage out of one note, and it ain’t
much. In his solo in the live performances
of this tune on the Y2k tour, however, Walter did deliver some rather thrilling
stab-it-in-the-pocket funk progressions, and it’s a crying shame these
more elaborate solo outings didn’t make it to the studio version. I will add to give credit where credit is due that Walter’s subtle
lacing of various intricate guitar lines and rhythm statements throughout Gaslighting
Abbie is outstanding. If the guitar
solo had been more ambitious and worthy of what Walter is capable of playing
that tune would have been one for the ages. (Another promising speculation regarding the solo on that tune concerns
what Jeff “Skunk” Baxter might have delivered on it…)
While Gaucho and 2vN certainly have some very fine tracks
on them they nevertheless do not reach the zenith in groove, sound or instrumentation
as ‘Scam and Aja. Now, had
Gaucho contained a re-recorded version of The Second Arrangement, along with
Kulee Baba and If You Got The Bear, I and I’ll bet nearly everyone else
in The Loyal Fandom would surely be talking differently about the groove potency
factor of that album.
As for comparisons
of Baxter with some of the later players several contributors have opined that
such comparisons are ultimately futile, and that each player managed to fit
the tune on which he played and may not have done as well as the chosen soloist
on another track (cf. Kelly Dwyer, 9/17/02, 18:57:04; and Howard aka “Bruce”
from Pommyland, 9/18/02, 08:11:02). Perhaps in the final analysis this is so,
although it is certainly interesting to learn of the criteria by which Danfans
variously measure the attributes of a given player or the success of a given
solo performance or track.
In this connection, I do not think
it at all problematic, as Dennis does, that Jeff Baxter is not as “graceful”
a player as Larry Carlton. Now, while Jeff’s pedal steel guitar playing is certainly
by any definition “graceful” (even “sublimely” so, to
paraphrase Sharkdeville), Baxter’s lead guitar was always distinguished
not by “gracefulness” but by what Howard aka “Bruce”
from Pommyland so aptly describes as “an energy, a rock'n'roll-fired enthusiasm
and creativity which none of the others had to the same degree, that often resulted
is some great, raw-edged playing. Not that this was the only thing he was good
at, but much of his best work has this hard-edged drive. The live work certainly confirms this.” Walter Becker in an interview once spoke of the chief distinguishing
qualities of each of the SD guitarists and opined in very similar terms that
Jeff Baxter’s defining characteristic was the “incredible energy”
of his playing.
I would add that Baxter’s
playing contains a powerfully “percussive” component as well. (For example, check out the beginning
of his solo on Reelin’ at the 3/20/74 Record Plant, where he mutes the
strings with the palm of his hand even as he strikes the strings with his pick,
thereby infusing a thunderous quality to this particularly fiery solo that fully
rivals the original studio version.) Baxter’s stunning guitar playing on the studio version
of Bodhisattva, and particularly his guitar solo during the second half of that
song, conveys this incredibly percussive quality, as do his two solos on Night
by Night. These are also “deadly
true” and a “perfect fit” for these edgy, energetic tunes. Although the players mentioned by Dennis in his post (Becker, Graydon,
Parks, Becker, Carlton) are tremendous players in their own right, I doubt that
any could have delivered the stunning energy and percussive punch that Skunk
did on such tunes.
I would go further and assert that
there is only one player who has conveyed an equal, possibly even surpassing,
level of energy on a Steely Dan tune, and that’s none other than Steve
Lukather, whose scorching solos on Chain Lightning and Josie from the 1992 Toto
Tribute to Jeff Porcaro are things of indescribable amazement and energy. For folks interested in hearing this splendid fretmeisterly demonstration,
see http://www.broberg.pp.se/sd_sound.htm. My curiosity is currently piqued to the
maximum regarding what ‘Luke has played in Toto’s recent tour behind
its new “Through the Looking Glass” CD, because Toto’s concert
opener is none other than Bodhisattva. While Toto energetically covers this tune on the new CD, who
knows to what heights it soars when Toto and ‘Luke unleash it at full
throttle in live performance?
While this percussive quality is
to some degree in evidence in Baxter’s playing on the first three SD studio
LPs it was even more evident during the live Steely Dan concerts. Baxter once said in an interview that
he and Denny had worked on specific percussive effects during the Pretzel Logic
tour and had even agreed on specific points at which they would hit their guitars
to achieve certain percussive effects. Sharkdeville is right on when he says that Baxter is one of
the most unique players in history and comes up with stuff of which no one else
could have dreamed. (Cf. 9/21/02, 11:46:39).
Of course, there is no refuting
Dennis’ assertion that Larry Carlton’s playing contains a truly
incredible gracefulness. (While
Dennis’ preferred graceful players are Becker, Dias, Graydon, and Parks,
whom he ranks with Larry Carlton, I don’t think they are quite as graceful
Larry nor quite have his chops; however, each has a different major strength: Denny has a separate kind of brilliance that is all his own with a bit
more “bop and bounce” to his playing; Becker has a bit more of a
lilting blues edge; we’ve only heard from Graydon on Peg, Dean Parks has
chiefly contributed background guitar parts along with one or two solos (the
identity of which are currently being debated on the Bluebook)). I will focus chiefly on Larry Carlton here as the main comparator
with Skunk, noting that Larry received a great deal of formal training, particularly
in the jazz idiom from such smooth fretmeisters as Joe Pass. Carlton is like a fish in middle-of-the-road
“smooth jazz” waters especially in his later recordings. By contrast, Jeff Baxter is completely self-taught. I cannot for a moment — and this quite happily — imagine Skunk Baxter playing in a mildly
pleasant, middle-of-the-road “smooth jazz” context.
There are those who give the nod
toward the “SD as studio concept” era with its more “graceful”
guitar work (and perhaps more incremental and intricate recording methodology),
and others more inclined to the line-up of the ’74 tour with its raw energy
and “down to the nitty gritty” and presentation. I often wonder what kinds of recordings the seminal Pretzel Logic tour
line-up (Becker, Fagen, Baxter, Dias, Hodder, Porcaro, Jones, McDonald) would
have been capable of producing in the studio, but the tension over the absence
of future tours forever rendered that reality an impossibility. Perhaps it’s a tremendous boon that we have both eras
where the raw-edged guitar fit perfectly the more rock-oriented tracks and the
graceful guitar fit to perfection the later tracks on which that style was appropriate. In any case, the best tracks from either era stand up to one another
very well.
Dennis asks about Jeff Baxter “what’s
he done?” My initial reply
to this entirely valid question is not nearly enough. Hence, my previous “toast” to a Baxter solo album. In my next post I will wax a wee bit about
some of the rare quasi-solo things Baxter has since done since leaving the ‘Dan
and the Doobies, since a few gems and needles in a haystack may be found. But the completion of the relevant text has been stalled because of the
aforementioned arresting post of Howard aka “Bruce” of Pommyland
that has caused my staff to halt its Steely Dan research in favor of panicky
and extensive forays into genealogy. My
hope and expectation is that this troublesome issue will be resolved soon enough
so that staff may assist me in returning to the worthy task of conveying information
that will be of interest to The Loyal Fandom on the subject of the post-SD work
of The Skunk and maybe a few other Steely Dan Alumni as well.
In the final analysis, I concur wholeheartedly with the ever-percipient Sharkdeville
who opines, in total and welcome contrast with Akroyd and Her Brother, that
both Dias and Baxter ought to be up on stage once more with D&W
(Cf. 9/21/02, 11:46:39). To be sure, a 2003 tour featuring the triple guitar
attack of Becker, Baxter and Dias, along with two drummers (as on the ’74
tour) would make for a truly amazing concert, according to the following flight
of fancy composed by one of my staff in a Pretzel Logic & Analysis Creative
Writing exercise: “King of the World opens the 2003 concert tour with
an extended and thoroughly incendiary double-drum introduction in the midst
of which Donald exclaims Cookin! And once that muscular percussion really
sets in he greets the expectant throng with a tuneful Hello one and all…
(A finer concert opening line there is not.) Baxter fires out a dizzying array
of notes tweaked with Echoplex effects while Walter Becker and Denny Dias trade
bebop solos.
After this tune winds up in
a manifestly explosive crescendo, the Skunk then moves over to the pedal steel
guitar and the ultra-cool Latin groove of Razor Boy fills the air. Tom Barney plucks the strings of the upright
bass in honor of the late Ray Brown, who displayed his solid string bass skills
on the studio version. The audience,
hearing Donald singing a song of the past, is all broad smiles. But just as everyone has relaxed in the wake of that subtle salsa rhythm,
Denny suddenly belts out the opening notes of Reelin’ and soon he and
the Skunk exchange stinging lead riffs as the original version of the song is
performed. The crowd feels as though it has met an
old and treasured, if too long absent, friend. The atmosphere now filled with the increased cardiovascular
ventricular palpitation appropriate to a state of heightened expectation.
Then an indisputably funky phrase
is heard from Mr. Barney’s bass guitar. It’s Gaslighting Abbie during which Fandom beholds Baxter
and Dias lacing intricate lines and funky riffs throughout while Walter delivers
stabbing funk-syncopated solos right in the pocket. Black Friday then rises to its churning
heights, with “bad ass” solos traded between Becker and Baxter. The latter moves to the congas, and it’s the cooking, uptempo ’74
version of Do It Again with the blistering percussion coda and a mighty solo
outing on electric sitar by Denny Dias and then by Donald Fagen on Moog synth. Then the ominous opening notes of Josie are heard, and Baxter
churns out the chunky rhythm guitar (incidentally, folks, Baxter is an absolute
master at churning out funk riffs). Becker solos brilliantly on his all-time favorite tune, and
then the audience is then treated to an intensely funked-up, extended double-drum
exchange between the two drummers (Danfans, who should they be?) in the tradition
of This All Too Mobile Home from the ’74 Pretzel Logic tour.”
Ah, if only it could be so…
Yours in Dandom,
Tristan
Gustave (er, possibly “Bruce”) Fabriani III, Esq.
Chief Executive Officer & El Supremo
Pretzel Logic & Analysis, Inc.
San Francisco, California
P.S. Dennis notes in his post, with regard to my quoting his ostensible retraction
‹“I take back everything I said about Skunk Baxter. I love him.”
‹that I completely failed to perceive its sarcasm. Oh, how credulous and dreadfully
dull of me! Deeply distressed over an oversight of such vast proportions, I
hastened to repair to the Chaplain of our firm, The Very Rev. Deacon Blues,
for a consultation. Every bit as insightful as Dr. Phil, but armed with a vast
theological erudition and a deeply spiritual discernment, he smiled and gently
noted: “Tristan, my son, truth is found as often in sarcasm as in humor.”
As the profundity of this insight sank in, I felt an immediate relief of my
angst. “Then, Your Reverence,” I inquired, “what should I
say to Dennis?” The worthy cleric rather matter-of-factly replied: “Ego
te absolvo a peccatis tuis.” “Oh, I’m certain he’ll
appreciate that,” I said, nodding with enthusiasm. “Is there anything
else I should tell him?” After a brief, thoughtful pause, the distinguished
sacerdote, with a contemplative countenance, replied: “Go forth and
write again, but sin no more.”
Posted by: John, Erie, Penn.Speaking of soul artists, I have been listening to Roberta Flack's greatest hits a lot lately. She's got this voice that is so subdued yet soulful. What happened to her??
So much early to mid 70's Stevie Wonder is all funky. It reminds me of Kamakiriad a lot.
Good Mac-Pc talk on the Yellow, Hoops.
John
Posted by: Sean, Ditto Dennis' remarks on Stevie Wonder. Wasn't it Stevie who called Roger Nichols to say something was wrong with some of the first Nightfly CDs????
Speaking of Stevie, there's a new Steve Wonder hits CD out today, The Definitive Collection. Kinda like Steely's Decade. Here's what's on it.
1. Fingertips (Part 2)
2. Uptight
3. Hey Love
4. I Was Made To Love Her
5. For Once In My Life
6. My Cherie Amour
7. Signed, Sealed, Delivered, I'm Yours
8. Superstition
9. You Are The Sunshine Of My Life
10. Higher Ground
11. Living For The City
12. You Haven't Done Nothing
13. Boogie On Reggae Woman
14. I Wish
15. Sir Duke
16. Masterblaster (Jammin')
17. That Girl
18. Do I Do
19. I Just Called To Say I Love You
20. Part-Time Lover
21. Overjoyed
Posted by: Dennis, ChicagoStevie is a genius! Hoops, the Katy Lied gig went great. We had a great crowd at Harry's. Very spirited. The guy who was playing the big long trumpet for the Breeder's Cup was there. He introduced us as a band and then started playing the intro he plays for the horse races (not sure what it's called) and then he broke into some pretty serious Dixieland shit. It really got the crowd pumped up before our show. Then, after our first set I went to talk to him and realized, this guy was shit-faced! Fuckin' funny. It kinda reminded of the intro to Bodhisatva on the live bootleg. I didn't get to check out the concert outside with Jim Peterick, Alan Parsons, Kip Winger (no shit) and friends although I did hear them playing a Winger tune on my way into Harry's. Very strange.
Posted by: Have a nice day, What Stevee Wonder and Don Fagen have in common: Stevee's harmonica sounds a lot like Don's Melodica.
Posted by: Mr. LePage, In the den... with no films todayAnybody out there ever heard of a band in the late 70's (or thereabouts) called "Beau Bolero"? When I saw them it was near Hartford, Connecticut. They played mostly or all Dan songs. The guitar player had all the solos down pretty good. In particular I remember he nailed the guitar part on "Don't Take Me Alive". Just curious if these guys are still around, and if they went on to bigger things.
Posted by: Paige, Santa BarbaraThanks Hoops...
I always appreciate the little gems of knowledge that you toss across the blue pages.
That's a great story.
The reason why asked if D+W had ever been influenced by Stevie Wonder is because...at least in my mind, I ocassionally hear similarities...particulary in the "funkiness" of Donald's keyboard style.
When I listen to Stevie's work on (Mary's) Supersticious (sp)...I can almost hear Donald playing it. I must be crazy.
Anyway. I agree. Stevie Wonder is one of our musical treasures. I feel that Wonder's high point was "Songs in the Key of Life." I can't think of a single song on the album that doesn't rise to our's Stevie's high expectations, musically.
In fact...that may be the important similarity between SD and SW is that they both are obsessed with perfecting thier work. At least...That's what Herbie says!
-Paige
Posted by: hoops, Stevie Wonder is an amazing musician, to say the least. Everybody is amazed by his work, it seems.
I can't cite any specific instances, but Seattle Radio D.J. John Fisher on KMTT-FM interviewed D + W and he submiited this item to the Dandom Digest last year:
---
"You know, that was kinda funny, and in this case I’ll tell you the truth.
Like, maybe 25 years ago, I got this call, Stevie wanted me to come over to Village Recorders in L.A. He says, 'I got this song, Donald, and I want you to write the lyrics.' So I go down there, I met him, and he was great, and he had that thing he used to call his Dream Machine, that weird synthesizer with pedals and stuff, and he played me down the track, and did a fake vocal with fake words so I’d get the idea. And it sounded great, and his playing
was unbelievable. He says, 'yeah, this’ll be great.' Now, actually, I didn’t know if he wanted me to write the lyrics for him, or for me, or what – that was unclear. But, I took it home, and it’s been 25 years, and I still could never figure out a lyric for it, y’know?
So when I went up [at the Grammies], I said, 'Hey Stevie, I’m still workin’ on the lyrics.' I said, 'this is Donald Fagen, remember? And I’m still workin’ on those lyrics.' He obviously didn’t have a CLUE what I was talking about . . .he went, 'WHATEVAHH!!!' And that’s what happened."
Cheers . . .
John F.
Posted by: Paige, Santa BarbaraDo you think that Don and Walt received any inspiration or influence from Stevie Wonder?
-Paige
Posted by: Stuart, Glen Cove, New YorkDoes anyone here know where I can purchase "You Got The Bear", "The Day You Were Blind" and "Kind Sprit"? I'm dying to get my ears on these unreleased songs! You can email me at stuposner@yahoo.com
Thanks!
Posted by: W1P, Los AngelesThis week is huge in SoCal for music. The Stones are in town for shows on 10/31, 11/2 and 11/4. Mike Keneally plays the Baked Potato in Universal City on 11/2. And on 11/3 Which One's Pink? joins with Sticky Fingers (obviously the Stones tribute band) at the Whisky A Go Go to play a special tribute show in honor of the Stones visit to Southern California -- a show that is supposed to feature "special guests" Oh and Marvette, our Great Gig in the Sky singer from the Lion King is with us on Sunday in what could be her final appearance with us because her company is taking the Lion King to Chicago (hoops). Hope to see one or more of you at some or all of these events.
Posted by: hoops, [ whoever ]:
And the point is…that one can cross-post? Yeah, so…
Or you have lame names for the guestbooks?
h
Posted by: DrMµ, Howard: Yes - that's exactly the reason for the ? marks - couldn't tell if piano or Carlton, sometimes I would "hear" piano and sometimes not. Calton does play those chords that Fagen originally would use on piano as the song developed or on the demo. He has such a ring to his 335 that it does really take the place of the piano In Daddy, an example of Fagenesque chords that sound like Carlton 4 chords (3 descending then 1 ascending) before the crunchy mini guitar solo. A classic example are the stummed chords in Deacon Blues, heard esecially at the intro of the tune...classic. Note how these chord progression resemble a little the ones in Babylon Sisters (here by the keys, guitar + horns) and the keyboard in The Nighfly title track
Posted by: , RE-post from the Piss Pages:
RE-post from the Blue-Bore:
"Date: Fri, September 27, 2002, 01:25:30
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Hoops,
I have a JVC XV-SA75 player that plays DVD-A, DVD-V, CDs, CD-ROM. CD-R, and CD-RW. Cool graphics, still pics, videos, interactive stuff, liner notes etc are commonly added to DVD-A just as DVD-V features. TVN DVD-A has a few still pics that aren't in the liner notes + some that are. The JVC XV-SA75 does indeed retail for under $300. Well worth it. TvN on DVD-A has the warmth of vinyl, but the noise reduction of CDs and clarity on steroids!
CD specs include:
16 bit sampling (2[16power]) = 65,536
44.1 kHz sampling rate
92 dB dynamic range
600 mB
DVD-A:
24 bit sampling 92[24power]) = 16,777,216
192 kHz rate (2 channel stereo)
144 dB dynamic range
4-8 GB
SACD (Sony and Philips only)
encoding different - pulse density modulation - like fuzzy bits
100 kHz sampling (2 channel)
120 dB dynamic range
test + still graphics only
not made to replace CDs - audiophile only
Both Roger Nichols and Eliott Scheiner I believe have stated that DVD-A will replace CDs within 5 years...
I almost forgot. There is a "universal" chips out now that will play ALL IEEE formats for DVD and CD. They should be available in affordable consumer players in a few short years. "
Ole: Manuel sez: "Que?"
October 27, 2002 20:19
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.21; Mac_PowerPC)
IP: logged
Posted by: Howard, More Katy thoughts:
Can't hear any piano on "Daddy Don't Live...", so Omartian can probably be crossed off that one.
There are also at least three different keyboards/synths used on this track. One comes in at 00:27, sounds almost like female backing singers - quite fuzzy/phasey sounding. Then at 00:42 there's a short, clean-sounding, church-like organ part. Same pattern for the next verse, with both keyboard parts.
At 01:29 there's another organ part, using a different sound (panned left), linking to the bridge. There's more organ during the bridge (stereo centre).
Finally, from 02:36 there's a low, sustained E that's played on one of the organ sounds, and is held till the fade-out. Probably the same instrument/sound as the "female backing singers" part.
Not sure who played these various parts - Fagen and/or Paich at a guess.
Also, the rhythm guitar that's stereo centre throughout, mostly chopping out chords, is very likely to be Carlton. The demo of this track that Andy Metzger had features the same two guitar parts (left and right) that made it to the final version, pretty much note-for-note identical. BUT in the stereo centre there's a piano part playing chords (Donald?). If it's true that Carlton came fairly late to the sessions, it makes sense that he was the one to replace the piano part with rhythm guitar. It plays a very similar role - driving the rhythm along, though it works much better than the piano. The demo even has a short piano break near the end (after "no more"), at the exact same point where the central ryhthm guitar in the final version has a break (02:28), before dropping back to the chord part.
Can't prove it, but I'd bet that Carlton was drafted in towards the end of the sessions to replace the piano part on "Daddy Don't Live" and inject a little energy into the rhythm section.
Howard
Posted by: DrMµ, NO DVD-R? Damn...I've got a G4 in digital teaching lab set to burn..almost. The department computer Nazis though refuse to put 10.2 (Jaguar) on the dual processor machine, although it already has 10.1 which is a ß as far as I'm concerned. No matter - will get an eMac with the Superdrive early next year in the office...
I knew I could count on the large source of data (outside the Sweet book) avaiilable to you all - we'll get Katy sorted out once and for all...
Posted by: hoops, where else?Peg:
New Orleans for the Grammys. Hmmmm…I don't know if they deserve that: why such a dis-honor for New Orleans?
DVD-A:
To update from a couple of weeks ago, as if you care, I received my JVC XV-SA75. It was left on the front porch. (Yes, a few years ago I told UPS not to do that after they left a spanking new computer "hidden"—sticking out of the bushes.) It's a delightful little player; yes, it's not a changer but it's cool. One thing you should know about the JVC XV-SA75: the documentation says it will not play DVD-Rs at all. I haven't tried it, but if people like me or µ have a DVD-burning Mac (or PC), I suspect the DVD's burned on those won't play on this unit. The JVC XV-SA75 plays CD-Rs fine.
Speaking of burning, my receiver started on fire. Yes, flames! This happened before I plugged in the JVC XV-SA75 DVD-A/V player so don't let that color my above review. So now I am looking for a whole new set up which may accidently include a bundled DVD-A player. Stay tuned if I end up selling an extra DVD-A player.
Katy Lied Personnel:
µ, I've started going through my Steely Dan article archives to see if I can find any further details as to who played what explicitly, or at least a few extra hints. I'm sure there are better collections of such articles (I have maybe 250) so if we pool together maybe we can sort this out.
Pretty sad with the gas in the theatre in Russia. The Soviets have re-branded themselves but they still have bad product and the same buffoons running the place. Sorta like the "Dilbert" comic strip for today.
Was the Walter Becker item from "Billboard" that much of a snoozer? I thought it was fun. I must be the only one.
µ: Is there any Mac keyboard combination that will give me a bigger "µ?"
Nitey every1.
h
Posted by: Peg, Cincinnati, oh!While researching some facts at work last Friday in the Net I came across some info regarding the Grammy Hall of Fame. Apparently the NARAS/Grammy folks have been searching for a town where they can build their own Hall of Fame museum...The "newest" bit of info I found on it was dated late last year. Perhaps other Dan fans can do a better search or have heard more? This I know: As of Dec. 01, it was going to be New Orleans.
"I would love to tour the southland..."
Posted by: DrMµ, TejasHoward: Funny you should say that - I noticed both Rhodes as well. Decade lists only one Rhodes player, but there a couple of instances of an instrument or player omitted. Left channel *could* possibly be Donald if not Omartian on both...
Posted by: Howard, @home
µ : couple of thoughts on Katy Lied:
Denny Dias only shows up once so far, on the Gold Teeth II solo. I reckon he must be elsewhere too. The rhythm guitar work on Dr Wu is one possibility. I'll need to listen through to the album again, but I think he may contribute a little rhythm guitar elsewhere...
Also, on Black Friday I can't hear any piano! I hear two Fender Rhodes (left and right) - could be one or two people playing these.
Howard
Posted by: Tom, Sparks, MarylandThis is a good puzzler, Mu.
I thought I remembered track by track credits in the Showbiz Kids compilation. All it had was a confirmation of Phil Woods on Dr Wu and Hal Blaine on Any World. Like the Phil credit is news to us-NOT!!!!
I'll work some more on this on the weekend.
TOM
Posted by: edited katy - DrMµ,
KATY LIED
Black Friday:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Walter Becker
Guitars: Walter Becker
Fender Rhodes: Michael Omartian
Piano: Michael Omartian
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald
Bad Sneakers:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitars: Hugh McCracken
Walter Becker (solo)
Piano: Michael Omartian
Percussion: Victor Feldman
Vibes: Victor Feldman
Backing vocals: Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald
Rose Darling:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Wilton Felder
Guitars: Larry Carlton (acoustic & electric – left channel), Dean Parks (electric & solo – right channel)
Piano: Michael Omartian
Percussion: Victor Feldman (tambourine)
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald
Daddy Don’t Live in That New York City No More:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Walter Backer
Guitars: Elliot Randall, Walter Becker, Larry Carlton?
Piano: Michael Omartian?
Organ: Donald Fagen
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen
Doctor Wu:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitar: Larry Carlton
Piano: Michael Omartian
Fender Rhodes: David Paich?
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Saxophone: Phil Woods
Percussion: Victor Feldman (chimes)
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen
Everyone’s Gone to the Movies:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Dorophone: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitar: Walter Backer
Fender Rhodes: Donald Fagen
Organ: Donald Fagen
Saxophone: Donald Fagen
Percussion: Victor Feldman (maracas, congas)
Vibes: Victor Feldman
Backup Vocals: Donald Fagen, Sherlie Matthews, Carolyn Willis, Myrna Matthews
Your Gold Teeth II:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitar: Denny Dias
Piano: Michael Omartian
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Chain Lightning:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Wilton Felder
Guitars: Rick Derringer (both? 9 and 11 o’clock)
Fender Rhodes: David Paich
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen
Any World (That I’m Welcome To):
Drums: Hal Blaine
Bass: Wilton Felder
Guitars: Larry Carlton, Elliott Randall
Piano: David Paich (something reminds me of “99”)?
Organ: Donald Fagen
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Percussion: Victor Feldman (tambourine)
Backup Vocals: Michael McDonald
Throw Back the Little Ones
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Walter Becker
Guitar: Walter Backer. Elliott Randall
Piano: Michael Omartian
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Horns: Jimmie Haskell, Bill Perkins
All lead Vocals: Donald Fagen
Horns arranged by Jimmie Haskell
Posted by: µ, OK, here's something Danish for Randy and the rest of us to chew on. The very, very, very tentative Katy Lied song-by-song credits. This was more difficult than Royal Scam, even though the production is less dense and more intimate. Any help, especially on bass and also keyboards and guitars...
KATY LIED
Black Friday:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Walter Becker
Guitars: Walter Becker
Fender Rhodes: Michael Omartian
Piano: Michael Omartian
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald
Bad Sneakers:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitars: Hugh McCracken
Walter Becker (solo)
Piano: Michael Omartian
Percussion: Victor Feldman
Vibes: Victor Feldman
Backing vocals: Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald
Rose Darling:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Wilton Felder
Guitars: Larry Carlton (acoustic & electric – left channel), Dean Parks (electric & solo – right channel)
Piano: Michael Omartian
Percussion: Victor Feldman (tambourine)
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald
Daddy Don’t Live in That New York City No More:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Walter Backer
Guitars: Elliot Randall, Walter Becker, Larry Carlton?
Piano: Michael Omartian?
Organ: Donald Fagen
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen
Doctor Wu:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitar: Larry Carlton
Piano: Michael Omartian
Fender Rhodes: David Paich?
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Saxophone: Phil Woods
Percussion: Victor Feldman (chimes)
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen
Everyone’s Gone to the Movies:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Dorophone: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitar: Walter Backer
Fender Rhodes: Donald Fagen
Organ: Donald Fagen
Clavinet: Paul Griffin
Saxophone: Donald Fagen
Percussion: Victor Feldman (maracas, congas)
Vibes: Victor Feldman
Backup Vocals: Donald Fagen, Sherlie Matthews, Carolyn Willis, Myrna Matthews
Your Gold Teeth II:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitar: Denny Dias
Piano: Michael Omartian
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Chain Lightning:
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Wilton Felder
Guitars: Rick Derringer (both? 9 and 11 o’clock)
Fender Rhodes: David Paich
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen
Any World (That I’m Welcome To):
Drums: Hal Blaine
Bass: Wilton Felder
Guitars: Larry Carlton, Elliott Randall
Piano: David Paich (something reminds me of “99”)?
Organ: Donald Fagen
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Percussion: Victor Feldman (tambourine)
Backup Vocals: Michael McDonald
Throw Back the Little Ones
Drums: Jeff Porcaro
Bass: Walter Becker
Guitar: Walter Backer. Elliott Randall
Piano: Michael Omartian
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Horns: Jimmie Haskell, Bill Perkins
All lead Vocals: Donald Fagen
Horns arranged by Jimmie Haskell
Posted by: h,
Here's one of my favorite short items about Walter. Man, this is fun for me.
h
Billboard April 17, 1993
“The Beat” column by Melinda Newman
DONALD FAGEN isn’t the only ex-Steely
Dan member with a new album coming out. (Billboard, April 3 [1993]). Walter
Becker is hard at work in his Maui recording studio recording his first
–ever solo record to be released on Giant Records.
Becker, who hasn’t recorded since Steely Dan’s last album in 1980,
was spurred on by producing other artists’ albums, particularly Rickie
Lee Jones’ 1989 “Flying Cowboys.” “I became interested
in the songwriting process again; it inspired me,” he says. “I also
figured I’d be able to spend more time at home with my family, and I had
a desire to be my own boss.”
The record reunites Becker with Giant label head Irving Azoff,
who managed Steely Dan during his Frontline Management days. “Donald
was working with Irving on the ‘New York Rock and Soul Revue,’ and
he generously touted the tape to Irving, who called me up and said, ‘Let’s
do it,’ just as I was getting ready to shop this thing around to a few
cherished friends. I didn’t want to get too involved in any business thing.
I was hoping someone would see the point and sign me.”
“I’ve always had great experiences with Irving,” Becker continues.
“He takes the challenges of working with creative people in stride, and
you never have to dread calling him and saying the worst. At one point, he renegotiated
our ABC Records deal that included a tour. Tickets already were on sale,
but after the very first rehearsal, we told him we were canceling. And his unforgettable
response was, ‘I’m kinda glad [you're canceling] because the tickets
sold out so fast, I’m convinced you didn’t need to tour anyway.’”
Ironically, a tour that is proceeding as scheduled may delay Becker in finishing
the record. Steely Dan is preparing to tour in August with Fagen and Becker
performing old band material as well as each doing new solo tunes. Ideally,
though admittedly unlikely, Becker says he’ll be through recording by June
when he begins getting ready for Steely Dan’s tour. “If I haven’t
finished my record by June, I’d need a break anyway,” he says. “And
then I could come back to the studio after the tour and not like anything [I’ve
already done] and start over.”
Though Steely Dan was known for its recording fastidiousness, Becker says working
as a producer of jazz albums has increased his studio speed. (“Not that
any of that did me any good with Donald’s album,” he quips.) “I’ve
learned you have to temper you desire to make something perfect with some awareness
of what’s practical.”
Becker penned all the songs on the new album, co-written writing some with guitarist
Dean Parks as well as with Fagen. “The ones I wrote with Donald
were basically rewrites of songs that we’d never finished or that we’d
done a long time ago,” he says. In addition to Parks, other musicians backing
Becker include Windham Hill keyboardist John Beasley, and three
members of Windham Hill act, the Lost Tribe: drummer Ben Perowski,
guitarist, Adam Rogers, and bassist Fima Ephron.
The still-untitled record marks the first time Becker sings lead vocals—a
process that grows less daunting as the project proceeds. “I came to grips
that I’d do it myself and that I wouldn’t be able to execute with
the power and precision that really good singers can, but I’d make up for
that with enthusiasm and my flair for having a good time. I think it will be
fine; I really don’t have any alternative.” Becker is hoping for a
late-1993 release.
Date: Fri, October 25, 2002, 11:14:56
Posted by: hoops, chicago
Whew! Glad to be back. Was down and out yesterday with the weirdest of sore throats. It's too early in the season for this. Store-brand Chloraseptic spray and Ibuprofren helped some but, talk about the healing power of music (heh heh), I woke up to NPR's Bob Edwards interviewing pianist Chuck Leavell. What a fucking great guy! He's been the Rolling Stones' keyboardist off and on for the past 20 or so years, has played with George Harrison and Eric Clapton, but is probably best known for his work with the Allman Brothers. That's his piano playing on "Ramblin' Man" and "Jessica." My God, the keys on the latter is one of the closest things to joy and euphoria for me. Whenever I hear "Jessica," I always think of waking up to that first thing in the morning, in campgrounds the morning after Grateful Dead Shows at Alpine Valley in southeaster Wisconsin (Steely Dan played there August 1996).
Aside from being part of the current Stones tour, Leavell has a new album out, "Forever Blue." I didn't know about it, but after hearing some out-takes, I plan to get it ASAP. Music can be "just the prescription" as Horace Silver has said.
So check out this interview with Leavell, along with some info on Roy "not -that-Roy-Rogers" Rogers of the Delta Blues scene. It's at:
http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/oct/rogers_leavell/index.html
Amanda:
Great site update. I was there at 2000 all over again. THANKS!
Normie & Others:
Thanks for the updates. What happened with Katy Lied last weekend?
Michelle:
We *can* all wish. INDEED!
Randy:
Thanks for the McPartland quote. Great point.
BF:
Very sincere thanks for the links, Big Fan. Even the most tangential link makes for the grandest connections and newest perspectives. Big Fan is role model one in demonstrating the beauty of the hyperlink.
Mel, others:
Thanks for the quotes.
Sean & Peg:
It was cool to read the Phoebe and Joni articles. Indeed, when's "Carey" coming? It's been in the can for a while, if I understand correctly, I hope the wait isn't proportionate to the wait for The Next One.
BTW: Should we call it The Next One or The New Project as it was called in the Steely Dan Newsletter #18?
Everyone:
Thanks for the "thanks" on article-re-posts, but really they are just a buzz for me to read and type all over again. Great to revisit these after a few years experience. In another SD fan forum, I was told some have a cynical view of these reprints. Well, yeah, know I didn't write them, but it feels so good to share them now.
Kot's a dork, into anything punk and beyond. Who knows if he actually even transcribed all of DF's quotes correctly. Still, it's fascinating to read DF's vantage of "Gaucho" as well as some other wordings. There was a SF newspaper interview with DF from June 2000 that covers a lot of the same territory and I feel some shift in his responses.
h
Date: Fri, October 25, 2002, 10:44:29
Posted by: hoops, for Rose Darlin' & with thnx to Hat2Flat
Hi!
Lynn McDaniel, aka Rose Darling, co-hostess and organizational force behind the award-winning Dallas Danfest, brought this tragic story about Belinda of the Naked Lunch to my attention. She asked me to assist by getting this out for her. Geoff, aka Hat2Flat, subsequently reminds us that Belinda played keys for Chuck Rainey at the Le Bar Bat Hall of Fame week gig and his mini-tour.
Check out the mentioned link and see how you can help.
—h
---------
Dear Danophiles,
This is plea for your support with a great cause. For those of you
who are not aware, a few weeks ago, Naked Lunch lost a very good friend and great musician. Belinda Lopez Warthen had played with us dozens of times and was a very important part of our sound for a couple of years. She passed away due to illness. It was an unexpected loss for us and the entire music scene in Dallas/Ft. Worth. Her husband, Brian, is still our bass player and he is reeling from mounting medical bills. We are playing a benefit show on NOVEMBER 14, 2002 (Thursday) at THE GRANADA THEATER onGreenville Avenue. The doors open at 7 and the music starts at 8 . This will be a great show at a great venue. Please tell everyone you know to come to the show and support the effort to cover Belinda's huge medical bills. Brian had no insurance and we can all do a little to help him out.
For more information, please visit our web site at http://www.nakedlunch.net and then click on the "Benefit Concert" button. We also thank KZPS 92.5 FM radio and the Granada Theater for all their help in putting this together.
Thanks very much for your help and we hope to see you there.
Date: Fri, October 25, 2002, 03:54:12
Posted by: normie, pretzel logic gig
Stevee- good show, ol' chap! My friend was really impressed - said that it seemed Warren was channeling both Fagen and Michael McDonald during Hey 19 - maybe it was the shirt....?
Requests for future gigs: Walk Between Raindrops, On The Dunes ("this one's for de laydeeeez"), Tomorrow's Girls, Chain Lightning (should be easy to work that one up), Monkey In Your Soul, Any World, and for the Quiet Part Of The Set While The Drummer Goes Out For A Smoke, Razor Boy.
"Don't overdo it without the faz on..."
Date: Fri, October 25, 2002, 01:30:20
Posted by: Mr.Sticks,
BOO!
HALLOWEEN GREETINGS FROM STEELY FAN BAND!
TOMORROW NIGHT , FRIDAY OCTOBER 25,2002..THE STUDIO CAFE
WILL BECOME THE SCARY CAFE AS WE RAISE AND DRINK GHOSTLY SPIRITS AT OUR ANNUAL HALLOWEEN BASH!
JOIN THE FUN AT 8PM WITH FOOD,DRINKS,DANCING AND OF COURSE LIVE STEELY DAN MUSIC ALL NIGHT LONG!!
ADMISSION IS FREE TO GET IN,BUT BE WARNED..YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GET OUT!!!
STUDIO CAFE
100 MAIN STREET(AT THE BALBOA PIER)
NEWPORT BEACH,CA.
SEE YOU AT THE SHOW,
MR.STICKS
HTTP://WWW.STEELYFANBAND.NET
1-877-679-7677
Date: Thurs, October 24, 2002, 21:38:29
Posted by: Geoff, Dallas
Amanda
I'll check it out soon - Hey and congratulations of the WB photo in Guitar player - did anybody else notice? Great article on the Jack of Speed Solo
Geoff
Date: Thurs, October 24, 2002, 19:22:04
Posted by: Michelle,
I meant to say that maybe that Coltrane writer is trying to do a Steely Dan bio next.
Bye!
Date: Thurs, October 24, 2002, 19:19:46
Posted by: Michelle, Princeton Junction, New Jersey
Hey everyone!!!!
A lot of rockin' posts!
Amanda's site's the best. I felt like I was reliving Holmdel and Jones Beach all over again! Love This gig? LOVE THAT SITE!!!! When did you find time and money to go do all the shows and shoot the photos???? AMAZING AMANDA! YOU GO GIRL!
Speaking of YOU GO GIRL, how about the Rolling Stone women of Rock issue. YOU'VE COME A LONG WAY BABY!!!
Steely Dan.COM news says, FALL 2002-Still Recording. So I guess that's what's happening. I was guess I was wrong about a record out by spring. But we can all WISH!
With Piano Jazz, maybe they did because we don't know much longer she will be around. She's pretty old, isn't she? I'm tickled they got together.
How cool for that author to mention Steely Dan in the Coltrane book! Maybe she is trying to do an authorized bio of her.
HAPPY 25TH BIRTHDAY AJA! Can I send you a belated birthday card? YOU GO TOO, GIRL!
I've never heard of Spoon, Big Fan. Isn't it something how the best songs about livascious women are attributted to Steely Dan!?
I wonder if that Kot guy got all those quotes right. Like, does Donald really get upset when he hears the Gaucho album? Maybe he's gotten over it since then. Is it me or does Fagen have issues with several more than a few SD classics. I have heard him say he will never do Rikki, Do It Again, and Reeling In The Years live. Eventually he did. Now the same with Gaucho. Or he did.
if W. of Hollywood is about Walter cause he's kid clean does that mean the book keepers son in Don't Take Me Alive is Fagen. Fagen is a book keepers son but I don't think he's that guy. What I mean is that maybe they take bits of personal details and make stories around them so they are not true but storys.
Bye!
Michelle
Date: Thurs, October 24, 2002, 11:41:31
Posted by: Amanda,
Hello all!
We have updated our Steely Dan Two Against Nature Tour website! There are a ton of never-before-seen photos, and we've given the whole site a face lift. Please stop on by for a visit at our same old address (see below or click above), and spread the word about the new site!
Thanks to your support our site has logged over 13,000 hits since we went online in May of 2000... we hope you enjoy the new changes!
See you soon...
Amanda
on behalf of
Amanda and Matt's Two Against Nature Tour 2000
http://members.aol.com/lovethisgig/index.html
Date: Thurs, October 24, 2002, 11:35:52
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA
In reference to Becker & Fagen's upcoming appearance on Marian McPartland's 'Piano Jazz,' in an interview a few years ago, Becker & Fagen were quoted as saying they don't listen to the radio, as there's really nothing to hear, excepting McPartland's excellent 'Piano Jazz' show (or something to that specific effect)...
I would suspect that quote is what led to their eventual scheduled appearance, with little connection to any upcoming recording(s) of their own.
For those who don't already know, Marian McPartland's show is broadcast here in the tri-state area on Jazz 88 (WBGO-88.3FM), on Thursdays at 7:00pm; the station also broadcasts on the web - check out their site at www.wbgo.org for further details.
"I'll learn to work / the saxophone / I'll play just what I feel..." - Steely Dan, 'Deacon Blues'
Randy
NIGHTFLY62@aol.com
Date: Thurs, October 24, 2002, 10:45:17
Posted by: Mel, another
Steely Dan sighting --- September 2002 Jazziz Magazine
In a fascinating article, Steely Dan are mentioned in the 1974 era. I am including 2 paragraphs.
Extract from "The House that Trane Built, The iMPULSE Records Story" by Ashley Kahn (who also wrote that great book about Davis' "Kind of Blue," which featured comments from Donald Fagen.
[In style and avant-garde spirit, the artists on iMPULSE during the early 70's pursued a direction first described by Coltrane a decade before. It was a conscious decision, Backer admits: "My thinking process was motivated by John Coltrane, and I was trying to bring this record label into his image, artist-wise. But I really wasn't looking for the next John Coltrane: I was looking for artists that were affected and impacted in certain ways by hi, but who also stood on their own as individuals."
Sadly, the second golden age of iMPULSE occupied a narrow window of time. "it was quite a successful period, and it lasted two or three years," Backer notes, but a paucity of bestsellers from the pop side of the company -Steely Dan was ABC's sole hit act during that period - meant you "you feel it in the jazz end." Backer read the writing on the wall when Lasker began pestering him about the success of another jazz label, run by the same man who had founded iMPULSE - Creed Taylor.]
Mel
Date: Thurs, October 24, 2002, 10:17:04
Posted by: Tom Travers, Super 70s
TOP 10 ALBUMS FROM THE WEEK OF OCTOBER 26, 1977
1. Rumours - Fleetwood Mac
2. Simple Dreams - Linda Ronstadt
3. AJA - STEELY DAN
4. Foreigner - Foreigner
5. Love You Live - The Rolling Stones
6. Anytime...Anywhere - Rita Coolidge
7. Shaun Cassidy - Shaun Cassidy
8. Chicago XI - Chicago
9. I Robot - The Alan Parsons Project
10. Livin' On The Fault Line - The Doobie Brothers
Warren Zevon will be on Late Show with David Letterman on October 30.
Date: Thurs, October 24, 2002, 09:15:55
Posted by: Big Fan , At Work
Peter Erskine Trio will play jazz at UR - boy I'd like to go
http://www.redlandsdailyfacts.com/Stories/0,1413,209%257E22484%257E940057,00.html
BTW I got Ivy's new CD with the cover of Only A Fool Would Say That. Totaly different and better I think than the one on Me Myself and Irene soundtrack - different lead singer I think. Need to do more research.
Even in Sports the Steely Dan thread is present:
http://browns.theinsiders.com/2/70714.html
Spoon comparison to SD
http://www.portlandtribune.com/viewcurr.cgi?id=14368
Leon Russell suffers heart attack
http://newshound.de.siu.edu/fall02/stories/storyReader$944
Sorry if this was already posted.
Date: Wed, October 23, 2002, 20:50:11
Posted by: Sean, Quincy MA
Great points, Peg. Speaking of the Rolling Stone issue, there's a Joni Mitchell interview in it.. Joni talks about Bob Dylan's old remark about her not being just another woman singer.
Sadly, no mention of that Joni tribute album with Steely Dan's version of Carey. I hoping to hear when Donald will get out his silver, as the song goes.
Sean
Date: Wed, October 23, 2002, 20:33:46
Posted by: Peg, Behind blue eyes
As for Rolling Stone = Not surprised they'd use a writer who may or may not always be on top of the game (Kot). Lately I've been really unimpressed with the way they pigeonhole boomer-age performers (performers from the '70s, early '80s mostly, who now are over 40)...the categories they put them in are ridiculous..."old folks" become cartoon characters. RS writers are oh so merrily rewriting history through their own 20-ish eyes. However, speaking of RS, there's a nice interview with Phoebe Snow in the issue dated Oct. 31, wherein she says she's into listening to rock music now (even Creed) and entertains the notion of belting out loudly with suchlike tunes.
JK: Yes, I believe I heard the sound of a PR machine revving up, too. Vrrrm! But will the Dan get up real early again to be on the Good Morning show to promote The Next OnE? :)
I've heard that old saw Donald repeated about it being bad luck to play a tune before it's released. It only works with signed artists. Unsigned ones have to play 'em over and over, believe me.
As for who done what: West of Hollywood always gave me a mental picture of Walter (west of Hollywood in Hawaii) cunningly making fun of either a. himself or b. the Hollywood surfers (who also, once in yon Pacific, also are west of town -- "way deep into nothing special..")
Cousin Dupree: To me, that song's lyrics were done by both guys, who were trying to make something funny/sarcastic/etc. making fun of country music. They used the same humor employed by Steven Foster in Oh! Susanna! in doing so: "Sun so hot, I froze to death" and "rained all night the day I left, the weather it was dry" is not a far cry from references to "waxing skis" and having a "crackling fire" in a hot Southern town where the chickie wears nothing but "little tops and tight capris." As for the music, well, it was calculated to be palatable to a greater group of folks than WOH was, fer sure. If that's what the comment meant by "own up to it," then I agree. Maybe they were told to try and embrace a larger audience. So, nothing wrong with that! Bring everyone in to Dan appreciation....
Date: Wed, October 23, 2002, 19:32:10
Posted by: h,
"Fagen's frequently cynical lyrics..."
Fagen's lyrics?????
h
Looking for that really cool WB interview right before 11TOW came out.
Date: Wed, October 23, 2002, 19:15:48
Posted by: hoops,
Here's another one that I don't see on the net anywhere. I have mixed feelings about it. Greg Kot is widely syndicated and also appears in "Rolling Stone." So he gets a lot of exposure but his take on the Dan is, IMHO, missing some information. He's not a huge fan from what I have seen from subsequent SD reviews by him. Moreover, I think he colors the interview too much by inserting too many of his own summaries and using too many partial snippets from Fagen rather then full thoughts. My hope is that if they ever get in a Chicago paper again, it's not with Kot.
That out of the way, it's fascinating to read Fagen's 1992 perspective on "Kamakiriad." the period after "Gaucho" and the NY Rock and Soul Revue. I wonder what he would say or phrase differently today.
-------------------
Rock ‘n’ soul
The rise and fall (and rise again) of Steely Dan
By Greg Kot, Rock Music Critic, Chicago Tribune, Sunday, August 16, 1992
For Steely Dan fans, it’s been a drought of biblical proportions: 12 years and counting without any new music from one of the more innovative bands of the 1970s.
There have been no albums from either of Steely Dan’s founding members, Donald Fagen and Walter Becker, since 1982, when Fagen released “The Nightfly.” The duo last worked together in 1980, on what would be the final Steely Dan album, “Gaucho.”
As Fagen explains, he was left drained by the making of “The Nightfly” without his old partner, and found “I had nothing left to say.”
“The ‘80s, personally and musically, were a trying period; I felt I was essentially out of the scene for a whole decade,” he adds. “I needed to grow as a person to get the energy to record again without repeating myself. If I could’ve put out an uninspired record to make a living, I would have. But that’s not the way I work.”
The creative juices are flowing again, however.
Late last year, the taciturn keyboardist and an all-star cast released an album of rock and soul cover versions, “The New York Rock and Soul Revue: Live at the Beacon” (Giant), that included a couple of reworked Steely Dan tunes.
He’s also been laboring on a solo album, which he says may be released as early as next February, with Becker producing and playing bass. And Fagen is “consulting” with his Steely Dan sidekick on a Becker solo album, tentatively set for release in the fall of 1993.
What’s more, Fagen and Becker will be reunited for the first time on stage since 1973-74, when the New York Rock and Soul Revue arrives Aug. 29 at Poplar Creek Music Theatre.
Also performing will be erstwhile Steely Dan vocalist Michael McDonald (who later found fame with the Doobie Brothers and as a solo artist), as well as veteran singers Boz Scaggs, Phoebe Snow and Chuck Jackson, plus a six-piece band, horn section and backup singers.
Together, Becker and Fagen charted an alluring course through 1970s pop, blending a love of jazzy, minor-key pop melodies, shimmering production and ironic lyrics. After a string of critically acclaimed releases, the duo struck platinum (1 million sales) with “Aja” in 1977.
But with the follow-up, “Gaucho,” the duo’s creative partnership dissipated almost beyond repair.
“We were going through a lot of personal troubles, and we were under a lot of pressure to top ‘Aja,’ which had been an enormous visible success,” Fagen says. “When I hear that record (‘Gaucho’) now, I get the creeps.”
After that, “it wasn’t possible for us to go in. I thought ‘Aja’ was our peak, and then Walter and I just went in different directions.”
Fagen worked through a bout of depression in the ‘80s, while Becker battle drug addiction, but the two began seeing each other off and on again to write songs beginning in 1985 (one of which is expected to surface on Fagen’s next album).
Although a much-rumored Steely Dan reunion didn’t take place, “we’ve been close since then,” Fagen says. “Our relationship has improved tremendously and it’s fun to be with him in the studio again. That’s what was missing in ‘Gaucho.’”
Meanwhile, Fagen began playing a few modest gigs in restaurants around Manhattan at the behest of a friend, songwriter Libby Titus.
“They were evenings of mixed music—cabaret, jazz, some pop—even some comedy,” Fagen says.
“I got invited to do one with Dr. John. It was just me and him on keyboards, with a rhythm section, mostly playing jazz, and he’d sing a few. It was fun.”
From there, the Rock and Soul Revue concept was born, with lines stretching around the block to see free-wheeling, anyone-might-show-up performances at the Lone Star Roadhouse in Manhattan.
The shows marked Fagen’s first live appearances since that first Steely Dan tour, which he dubbed a “disaster.”
“We’d open for heavy metal bands, and we never got the sound check we wanted,” he says. “The accommodations were less than wonderful, with routing from hell—from Honolulu to Miami.”
With the Rock and Soul Revue, Fagen says he’s in a “Steve Allen mode,” playing master of ceremonies from his piano. He and Becker will perform a handful of Steely Dan tunes with the rest of the band, though one from their upcoming albums—“It’s bad luck to play new material until it’s released.”
He adds that other surprises may be in store, however. “I’m trying to get Walter to sing. The last time he did that was during the Bleeker Street days back in 1966.”
Becker and Fagen first met at Bard College in upstate New York in the mid-‘60s.
“We were writing songs together within a day of meeting each other, “ Fagen says. “We both had been jazz fans since we were 9 or 10 years old, listening to the same jazz shows on the radio, and we both got into soul and pop in the mid-‘60s.”
Fagen says the two veered towards pop because jazz was losing its appeal.
“It had begun turning into an avant-garde art form,” he says. “As (saxophonist) John Coltrane took jazz further out, he destroyed what jazz had been before. I understood what was happening, but I missed the more melodic and harmonic elements in jazz. Those started turning up in the pop music of the time.
“The chords were the same, but the progressions were becoming more adventurous. And I also got into the blues, the direct energy of it all.”
All those elements began to show up in Steely Dan’s music in the next decade. The introductory riff from one of it’s biggest hits, “Rikki Don’t Lose That Number,” was drawn from a composition by hard-bop pianist Horace Silver; “Parker’s Band” saluted jazz innovator Charlie Parker; and “East St. Toodle-Do” [1] was a dextrous reading of a Duke Ellington original.
The duo’s jazz obsession, Fagen’s frequently cynical lyrics, even it’s name—drawn from a William Burroughs novel—gave Steely Dan a collegiate hipster veneer that turned off some critics.
But there’s no denying the duo’s intellect and inventiveness, how they managed to succeed as a pop band even as they thumbed their noses as pop convention.
“ I hear records a certain way because I grew up a jazz fan,” Fagen says. “ I like a much drier sound, more up-front and direct, than is the norm in pop music.”
“ I don’t have a car, but I hear pop radio in cabs, these little messages of what’s going on. At home, I mostly listen to old jazz, blues and soul, because the mixes on these new records are so ugly I can’t listen to them. Everything is so grandiose, with huge amounts of echo. So many *things* are used, like drum machines, without trying to make them sound musical. Because there’s no soul in these machines, engineers try to compensate with massive amounts of reverb (echo).”
It sounds like Fagen's new album, a song cycle that he says will be similar in format to “The Nightfly,” will be firmly in the Steely Dan tradition: pop that doesn’t pander.
As Fagen says, “I just think we always had a different set of priorities.”
—30—
-------------------
[1] hoops' Note: The original article included “Toodle-Do” which tells you a bit about the critic’s familiarity with SD and Ellington, or that he has an errant spell checker. But a subsequent article revealed that Kot explained he knows little about Jazz, which would explain some of his subsequent Steely Dan reviews which had some inaccuracies or bizzarre opinions.
Date: Wed, October 23, 2002, 16:58:56
Posted by: A Wild Gambler, at Ramblers
I always thought West of Hollywood was about Walter. Maui is west of Hollywood. Kid Clean is Walter after he got off drugs in the 1980's. She was Anne de Siecle, like Fin de Siecle, end of millenium or cycle, like new age. Walter's last wife was a his yoga instructor, a new age guruess. No idea about Dr. Warren Krueger.
Aloha!
A Wild Gambler
Date: Wed, October 23, 2002, 15:58:24
Posted by: jim mckay, chicago
Housewife:
Interesting comments, topic. I hadn't thought of "Century's End" and "Jack of Speed." When I listen to "Jack", indeed, I see where you are coming from. Then I recall Walter's 1996 live version, which, was a helluva lot more bluesy, sped up and raw, and I don't think so.
I keep thinking back to the "Words + Music" interview that Warner Bros put out in support of 2vN. Walter and Donald talked about how so many of their songs are composites of ideas. Their songs are really by nor about any one person since they are sort of a pastiche.
That said, with no good reason that is accurate, I THINK of the following songs as being more from the perspective of Walter: "Janie," "Jack," and WOH. "Gaslighting" and "Negative Girl" more Donald. "Almost Gothic" more Donald BUT THEN, maybe Walter.
My point at THIS point is these ideas of who is what is more in my head and based on preconceived notions than reality. I think the reality is that there is really too much cross pollination in the germination of Steely Dan's ideas for there to be a clear line. The only thing I am clear about is this. Casual fans and listeners to Steely Dan often over-estimate Donald's role in the songwriting and underestimate Walter's.
jk:
I sense the same "album pending" vibe you do and someone else did earlier. Just a gut feeling that 2003 is it, assuming the war doesn't strike too hard.
Sean:
"The Onion" interview is the best, by far, of all the post Grammy interviews.
Date: Wed, October 23, 2002, 15:13:12
Posted by: Beautiful Housewife, Deep Distress
Dandom Insight #4: Pride of Authorship
Below is an excerpt from my soon to be released autobiography Donald & Walter & Me, which chronicles my 30-odd-year relationship with the two of them and how we managed to maintain some degree of sanity amidst the flourishing drug culture of Los Angeles in the 1970’s, and the metaphor of how much the dismal artistic state of affairs of that time relates to today’s dearth of creative energy of society.
Since we’re now living in the post-solo time when Donald and Walter released albums of their own, it’s fairly easy from today’s perspective to pinpoint on their recordings, exactly who, between the two of them, is responsible for any given element on any given song. Take, for example, their latest release:
“Gaslighting Abbie” – Donald’s straight-ahead lyrics layered over Walter’s melodies and chords.
“What A Shame About Me” – obviously Donald’s apology to those of us in the NYC literati who wasted our time and energy back in the ‘80’s attempting to encourage his prose writing skills?
“Two Against Nature” - Walter’s lyrics with some insightful help from Donald, and Donald’s melodies with some insightful help from Walter.
“Janie Runaway” – Is it obvious to anyone other than myself that this tune is almost entirely Walter’s?
“Almost Gothic” - A delightful glimpse into the shady and shadowy world of Donald’s fantasies, which, I’m sure, are even scarier than he lets on in this cute little vignette.
“Jack of Speed” – A dead giveaway for Walter’s lyrics, and Donald’s recycled melody of “Century’s End”. Also takes on quite a bright and lovely twist when one substitutes the NYR&SR for “right-wing hooey”.
“Cousin Dupree” – Although it’s difficult for me to believe they actually own up to composing this little ditty, and, even more unbelievable, that they actually won a Grammy for it (heaven help us – thank goodness it was for performance and not content!), it’s a fairly safe bet that it’s Donald’s music and lyrics with a dash of Walter for the bop arrangement.
“Negative Girl” – Again, is it obvious to anyone other than me that this tune is almost entirely Walter’s?
“West of Hollywood” – Donald with a capital “D”.
Date: Wed, October 23, 2002, 11:13:59
Posted by: jk,
hell i haven't read this thing in 6 months. still haven't. but HOOPS IS VERY COOL. i tested the pkg that he sent me with a hazmat team - and it was negative.
totally stoked for the marian mcpartland gig. you know those two guys don't just do stuff like that on a whim. the pr machine is in gear. it means new music! when am i ever wrong?
late feb. - mcpartland
march - single comes out
april - june /new cd - dvda
june - sept. /tour
hope you guys aren't talking politics. i got kicked off another board for telling the truth about the holy oil wars!
go celtics.
for those of you who have been asleep for years, nrbq is aboung the top 5 best american rock bands of all time ( nrbq, early dan, allmans, beach boys, areosmith?) so consider this:
for the information of group members who may want to know...original NRBQ
> guitarist Steve Ferguson is in critical condition at Norton Audibon Hospital
> in Louisville, KY...he has been in the open heart unit for nearly 3 weeks and
> is currently on dialysis and ventilator support...like so many musicians Steve
> has no insurance...efforts are being made to have a 5 venue all day concert
> benefit in Louisville on the 17th of November...there will also be a silent
> auction of donated items, much of these, music collectables from both the
> musicians and fans...anyone that could help in anyway should contact Chris
> Sundberg at : Micklegate@aol.com
>
> also cards sent to steve would be greatly appreciated...Steve is the writer of
> Widespread Panic's "Flat Foot Flewsy" among other things for those of you who
> are not familiar with NRBQ...
peace
jk
Date: Wed, October 23, 2002, 09:32:06
Posted by: jim mckay, chicago
This month's "Vanity Fair" is dedicated to music. One feature that I was fascinated by is, "Who Killed the Hit Machine?", an article on Warner Brothers by Nick Tosches. p. 238.
While record execs have this rep for being assholes, nevertheless I've been fascinated by their gumption and chutzpah. I've always been fascinated with the stories about former SD manager and Giant Records former head, Irving Azoff, since stories about him are so much like real Steely Dan songs.
And then there is Joe Smith who has headed various Warner-connected labels. He has some really great stories, which he captured in one of my favorite music books, "Off the Record: An Oral History of Popular Music" from the 1980s, Some really great, amazing stories in there. Read the thick book all at once sitting.
Any-who, there's this one new story from Joe Smith in the "Vanity Fair" article—great stuff:
Joe Smith remembers the 1967 ordeal of signing Van Morrison, who was then under contract to dark forces:"
"He was the artist that I had coveted, but I didn't know where to find him and I didn't know who had his contract. I called Joe Scandore, who was Don Rickles's manager. The Mob guys called him the elegante of Brooklyn. And Joe knows about people. I said, 'Joe, find out what I got to do to get his contract.' We found Morrison. He was in a basement in Cambridge with the immigration people trying to throw him out, and there was no record label, and he was broke. Scandore found out that the characters who had Morrison would sell the contract. They wanted $20,000. "
Smith continues:
"So I had to meet a guy at six o'clock at night on the third floor of a warehouse on 10th Avenue in Manhattan. The guy said to bring the money. I wasn't feeling very good about that. I had the cab wait and I walk up stairs and I knock on the door and I come in and it's central casting. There's a big wide guy sitting behind the desk and a big tall guy standing beside him. I come in and I say, 'I'm Joe Smith, I'm with Warner's, I need to talk .' I have to talk to somebody. He says, 'you got the money?' I say, 'Yes, you got the contract?' 'Let's have the money.' 'The contract, is it signed?' 'It's signed.' 'O.K., O.K.' "
"Now, what I'm concerned about is, I'm gonna take the contract, go outside, and something's going to hit me in the side of the head, and the next thing I won't have a contract. I jumped from the third-floor landing to the second floor—I almost broke my foot —and I ran out onto the street and got into the cab and went back and put the contract in the safe at the Warner office."
The book I mentioned is full of stories just like this. It's out of print but I see used copies on the Internet all the time. Amazing book.
h.
Date: Tues, October 22, 2002, 21:05:35
Posted by: Peg, Back in da saddle again
Howard and Earl: Thanks. Since I play the melody on top by ear, or otherwise improvise, I often ignore the X part of the X/Y chord markings, and gravitate toward the Y, for purely keyboard reasons (play Y chord or bass line in left hand, play melody in right). So, it was a bit of a keyboard mindset-versus-guitar thing after all, I guess. It's a neat idea to play both X/Y together, Howard, like you said, very fun and educational! How about mixing doughnuts with Doritos, anyone?
Date: Tues, October 22, 2002, 14:22:57
Posted by: Sean, Quincy, MA
The Onion still has that really great, post-Grammy interview with Becker and Fagen.
Still refreshing.
http://www.theonionavclub.com/avclub3713/avfeature_3713.html
Sean
Date: Tues, October 22, 2002, 12:11:38
Posted by: hoops2flat, responding to hat2flat
Geoff;
Thinking about your question asking if anyone planned to record the "Piano Jazz" with Donald and Walter, I remembered: McPartland will sometimes offer milestone shows on CD.
If you go to http://shop.npr.org/catalog/Category.jhtml?CATID=11&TOPCATID=7 You will see there are several milestone "Piano Jazz" shows offered on CD including those with Benny Carter, Clark Terry, Dizzy Gillespie, Jack DeJohnette, Les McCann, Oscar Peterson and others.
Wouldn't that be something if the list were extended to include the title, "Marian McPartland's Piano Jazz with guests Walter Becker, Donald Fagen, Jay Leonhart and Keith Carlock" ??? I'm sure the show would be worthy of such a documentattion via CD.
That would be sublime. We can always hope.
jim
Date: Tues, October 22, 2002, 07:31:49
Posted by: Howard,
To add to Earl's addition:
The C/C# type slash chords (where the bass note is a semitone up from the triad root) are interesting. You also get some others that sound similarly harsh/dissonant, where they have a major triad with the minor third in the bass, e.g C/Eb.
I've always wanted to spend time tracking the development of certain SD chords through the various albums. I feel sure that these "out there" slash chords (C/C#, C/Eb etc) only started appearing from Kamakiriad and 11TOW onwards. I couldn't swear to it, but I don't think there are any in Aja or Gaucho, but there are some in the later solo albums and several in 2VN. There's one in the chorus of "Hat Too Flat" I think, somewhere near HAT in "... English is more better now but my hat is way too flat".
In Negative Girl there are a few too: B/C and D/Eb just before the chorus, not forgetting the E/C in the verse.
I see them a bit like Thai fish sauce or strong chilli - on their own they don't taste good, but in context - delicous!
Howard
Date: Mon, October 21, 2002, 23:05:25
Posted by: oleander, o home
hoops!--WOW!! (sorry, WoW) You are quite the angel. Many many many thanks. It's fabulous.
Date: Mon, October 21, 2002, 20:41:56
Posted by: hoops, one more reply
Michelle: I think you might be on to something. I could see Lorne Michaels and SNL wanting D + W on SNL. I could see them commissioning D + W pumpkins just to get their attention and maybe coax them on. Yes, not having SD on SNL is a glaring omission.
Yet, I would have to wonder, given how SNL has slid in quality, would D + W consider it. Well, maybe for the history of it and that it's a NY show. Plus it beats promoting via Oprah. I used to plan my Saturday nights around SNL and SCTV in the 70s. Now I often change the channel from SNL before it even begins. But please, I hope they don't do Conan, or worse, Kilbourne, or worst of all, Leno. (Remember when Joni Mitchell did Leno? Leno was a big dope!)
Inklings of a new album and tour in '03? Let's hope. :-)
jim
Date: Mon, October 21, 2002, 20:32:39
Posted by: ed beatty, @home finally
Hi,
I caught the SNL show and i think the top two pumpkins were Hoops and Pete in the 70's if you ask me...
Its great to be home.
P.S. Ducky I have your number,you should be waiting on a call from me soon.
Ed
Date: Mon, October 21, 2002, 20:31:44
Posted by: hoops, back in chi-town
Was away for the weekend and missed some great stuff.
Dennis and Bob or anyone who was there: how did the Katy Lied gig go?
Also missed the Steely Jack O Lanterns. That would be great to at least catch images on screen.
Peg: Thanks for the heads up on McPartland in "Jazziz." Thanks bunches.
Dr. Mµ; Yes! RETROACTIVE! It sucks! And I don't thin the live365.com people make that much either. That "Onion" satire someone posted a while back was dead on. So, please, next time you read about live365.com needing help, please do. THANKS! I'd like for all of our Dan Fan radio stations to stay on.
Lisa: check out http://www.steelywonder.com SF Dan/Stevie Wonder cover band. They have a date on October 29 but maybe they have something during your visit as well.
Q., everyone. It was such a great pleasure to relive Roseland again. It really left me smiling to think about it all. Thanks to Q. and all of you for your kind words. Really, it's my thrill, it's my drug. Thanks Pete and does it sound Vegassy to say D + W?
I am exhausted. Nitey!
jim
Date: Mon, October 21, 2002, 17:42:51
Posted by: Michelle, N'Jersey
I couldn't tell which other members the other Jack O Lanterns were either. Then again, Hodder was kind of non-descript on the album pictures too.
With word of Piano Jazz and now this, I can't help but wonder if this all isn't the early rumblings of the next album coming out. Maybe SNL did it as an attempt to flatter Donald and Walter to coming on the show. Katy Lied was the album out when SNL premiered. I don't think Steely Dan was ever on. Maybe this is their plea or suck up to get them on.
Have a GREAT GREAT GREAT week everybody!
Michelle
Date: Mon, October 21, 2002, 17:19:58
Posted by: norm, dan-o-lanterns
The two on the bottom row definitely looked like D+W, but who were the two on top supposed to be?
Date: Mon, October 21, 2002, 13:12:10
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Not to show up Howard, but to add to what he had to say, many times these slash chords are called inversions. For instance, G/B is the 1st inversion of the G chord (since the 3rd is in the bass). Cm/G is the 2nd inversion of the Cm chord (the 5th is in the bass). But a slash chord does not always mean an inversion of a major or minor chord.
As Howard stated, you will find tons of these chords in Steely Dan music. The slash chord can very often give you a clue to the proper voicing. The slash chord is also important for the walking bass line, since many times songs will walk from the IM chord down to the VIm chord, and instead of the chromatically-correct VIIdim a composer will substitute the V/VII chord (the stale G - D/F# - Em progression is one widely used example) to stay away from the unhappy-sounding diminished chord.
You will find other types of slash chords, such as the IV/V chord (C/D), V/IV (F/Eb), and other gems. When things start to get confusing (and interesting) is when you get chords like C/C# (listed as a chord during the bridge of Gaslighting Abbie in the 2VN songbook). A beast like that defies the typical musical form, but in certain contexts odd chords and voicings can work.
Earl
Date: Mon, October 21, 2002, 12:04:25
Posted by: Lisa, Not an island cooling in the sea, but just as beautifully refreshing.
Needing to hear Steely sound-alike band while in the San Fran area Nov. 8-11. Can't hold out much longer. Need Dan music. Please help. Fading fast.
(Fade to black.)
Date: Mon, October 21, 2002, 07:44:35
Posted by: Howard,
Peg - the slash chords (X/Y) mean use chord X with bass note Y. It's not a guitar specific thing, I think it's fairly standard chord notation. In the Dr. Wu example, where it says Bb/Eb, you have a Bb triad in the right hand and an Eb bass in the left. This gives something that sounds close to a Emaj7 or EMaj9, but it's subtly different.
There are a LOT of these slash chords in SD music! The Bb/Eb type (bass note is the IV of the chord) is quite a common one, but things like Bb/C (bass note is the II of the chord) also come up a lot. The first is a little like a maj7 as I mentioned, the Bb/C type is often used as a substitute for the dominant 7th (C7 in this case - Bb/C is closely related to C11).
If you look at the last chords of the Dr Wu verse, and the first ones of the chorus they illustrate this nicely:
for the line "And every word we sang I knew was true" you have: Am11 Em7 C Bm7 C/D
leading to D/G for "Are you with me Dr Wu..."
That D/G has the IV of the chord in the bass, so it sounds similar to Gmaj7. You can hear the V-I perfect cadence going into this D/G, and in the key of G you'd expect the V-I to be D7 to G. Instead of D7 they use C/D.
So a simplified sounding version of the same sequence would end with: C Bm7 D7 Gmaj7.
Those Steely Dan X/Y chord types just make it a touch more interesting.
Howard
Date: Sun, October 20, 2002, 21:36:14
Posted by: Peg, Close to it
Hoooopsie (and other current and future McPartland fans): Check out November's JAZZIZ magazine (Oscar Peterson is on the cover) for an interview and photos of Marian McPartland and Jason Moran. Marion does quite a bit of reminiscing, from childhood on...it's neato. :) Gem quote: "That's the only way I was popular (when she was 13 or 14) -- because I could play piano."
Howard, I have a question. Your tabs frequently include two chords over a particular word. Example: In Doctor Wu (Katy Lied) you have Bb/Eb written above "man that I..." When playing it on keyboard I always choose Eb. Are the two chords separated by a slash to be the choice of the player or is the first chord your first choice, and the second one your second choice? Or is this some guitarish thing -- something a piano player would not know about?
Garsh, I wish I had seen that SNL skit. What an idea for the one on the porch: maybe I'll get him a little fez to wear, or perhaps rest him on a pair of bad sneakers.....
Date: Sun, October 20, 2002, 13:28:35
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California
I was looking at the SNL pumpkins and thinking, incredulously, "That looks like Walter Becker!" And it WAS...
Very timely validation of the hipness of the Dan, as my 13-year-old daughter was watching with me.
Thanks to Lorne & Co!
Date: Sun, October 20, 2002, 00:05:34
Posted by: TheCharmer,
"Steely-Dan-o-Lanterns!" Gotta love SNL! "That's a dead-on Donald Fagen"
Date: Sat, October 19, 2002, 17:45:19
Posted by: Geoff,
Hey folks
The 'Piano Jazz' appearence has to be the best Dan news since the realease of 2VN and the 2000 tour. Unfortunately we don't get the show down here in Dallas but I used to listed every Sunday morning in Chicago. I'm sure those of you are familiar with the show will agree that this will be a rare treat. Normally the guests play and discuss a mixture of there material and favorites by other artists/influences. Anyone set up to record?
Date: Sat, October 19, 2002, 12:28:11
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
The internet radio royalties are RETROACTIVE?! Can anyone afford this Bu*%@*$*it?
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-19webcastoct19,0,4804029.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
Date: Sat, October 19, 2002, 08:15:20
Posted by: HeyMike, with the working girls in the county jail
Wow Hoops....Verry cool!
Date: Sat, October 19, 2002, 05:23:03
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, Chi
Hoops, you fucking rule.
Thanks again.
Date: Sat, October 19, 2002, 00:16:01
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, california
Was busy this week and just caught up on Desert Island selections. I agree it's impossible to think of surviving on just ONE.
I'd have to make a final decision at the "moment of truth," but for me it would probably be Babylon Sisters. Aja's very close and so would be My Rival -- the complexity of the instrumentals would take a long while to wear out. Lotsa others in the running.
Peg, glad we're in alignment. I do still like 2vN -- especially the title cut which is as funky as the boys have gotten. Kama does have some good cuts, too. My faves are probably CounterMoon and Teahouse at the Tracks (very groovy). The Siegel brothers, Irene, Flaco, little Amy Kahn -- we're talking diversity, baby!
Date: Fri, October 18, 2002, 22:06:59
Posted by: Q, Down there...
This evening I was taking a break on the keys when the current Dandom Digest popped in.
I've really been out of the Dandom loop for a long while, although keeping due vigil upon my own particular "Danniche", but this time immediately opened the Digest to see the topic of the day.
I expected little considering that we're still in the belly of the current Steely Dan Bear Market...
But, there it is, Hoops delivered a poignant first person rendering of his Roseland experience and beyond inluding that of Mr. Fogel and one of the many reasons Mr. Fogel has earned his "immortal" place in Dandom.
Hoops' story of his Roseland story strikes at the heart beacause for those who were lucky enough to have been there too, you understand fully the magic that was generated in those two nights. But, equally important, for those who were not there, Hoops relayed a personal story that both draws the uninitiated into the magic, and also educates them, and all of us to the role of Mr. Fogel.
Pete's virtually limitless passion for the Dan, in amplitude and frequency, has been equal in importance in every way to that of any other single individual in the history of Steely Dan other than DF/WB and maybe 3 other people(over a 25 year span) by my personal reckoning.
Regardless, my hat's off to Hoops and as one more scurvy brother, I highly recommend that every one read the current Dandom Digest.
For those who have read it, and further more to those who were at Roseland and Sony, etc.; and to Walter and Donald......let's do it again....
Date: Fri, October 18, 2002, 21:17:14
Posted by: John,
Bravo!
Date: Fri, October 18, 2002, 18:40:05
Posted by: hoops, chicago
As part of today's Digest, I was typing another item from "Metal Leg #25" It was great to read it all over again! I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
---------------------
The New York Times' "Styles" section via Metal Leg #25, August 1994Sunday, August 15, 1993
THE DEAD BAND SOCIETY
Metal Leg: The following article appeared in the "Styles" section of the Sunday August 15, 1993 issue of The New York Times as well as in other syndicated newspapers across the country. It was written by David Browne, a music critic who also writes for Entertainment Weekly and it profiles the history and workings of the illustrious publication that you are reading right now: Metal Leg. Since the article appeared a year ago, our subscriber base has grown by almost 50%.
Steely Dan's back. Readers of Metal Leg magazine are very prepared.
What:
Metal Leg: The Steely Dan Magazine, a fanzine devoted exclusively to the sardonic 70's pop band. It recorded its last album in 1980 and quietly disbanded the next year. "It's all those thing you wanted to know about Steely Dan but were afraid to ask," said the editor, Pete Fogel, 34.
Why Ask?
Because Steely Dan never really went away. The band's music—their hits include "Rikki Don't Lose That Number, " "Peg," and "Hey Nineteen"—fits like an Earth Shoe on classic-rock and contemporary-jazz radio station formats. As a Presidential candidate, Bill Clinton played, "Reelin' In The Years" at campaign stops last year. Steely Dan CD's remain among MCA Records' most consistent sellers; their fussily produced music sounds even more pristine in that format. Toss in the reclusive nature of the band's leaders, the keyboardist-singer Donald Fagen and the guitarist-bassist Walter Becker, and you have a cult for the nostalgic audiophile.
Do It Again:
Steely Dan has made a typically odd comeback. This spring, Mr. Fagen released an album, Kamakiriad, his first in 11 years, and he and Mr. Becker have reunited for a 21-show Steely Dan tour—their first in 19 years—that arrives Wednesday at sold-out Madison Square Garden. "They're the Lennon and McCartney of America," Mr. Fogel said.
Reeling In The Dan:
Metal Leg, 22 issues old, was started in England by a devout fan in 1987 and taken over three years later by two subscribers: the gregarious Mr. Fogel, who also tends bar and books rock bands into Manhattan clubs, and Bill Pascador, the low-key publisher who is a media supervisor for an ad agency. Together, they crank out each hand-stapled issue on a weathered ATC computer in Mr. Pascador's ramshackle apartment on the Upper West Side. Metal Leg has roughly 4,500 subscribers, who pay $14 for four issues.
Pretzel Logic:
You'd think that a magazine devoted to a band that hasn't recorded since Ronald Reagan was elected President would have trouble filling its pages. Not Metal Leg. Each issue contains interviews with musicians fondly recalling licks they played on Steely Dan albums, excited reports of Mr. Becker and Mr. Fagen's recording progress, and arcana, like reprints of old album reviews and Mr. Fagen's 1965 high school graduation picture. "Many people will tell you Steely Dan never toured," Mr. Fogel said, proudly explaining that the group had indeed gone on the road. "Not only did they tour, but we have pictures. We have reviews. We put that story to rest."
My Old School:
In the 70's, Steely Dan's black humor, sophisticated jazz riffs and leave-us-alone mystique made nerds feel cool. Apparently, that's still true. "Back in the 70's their audience had long hair and smoked pot," Mr. Pascador said. "Now they're married and have kids, and they're living vicariously through our magazine. We get letters from doctors saying they play Steely Dan in the operating room." Mr. Fogel added: "These aren't these little kids writing us. They are professionals. I haven't had one bounced check in three years."
Why "Metal Leg"?
Supposedly, it was the original working title of Steely Dan's last album, Gaucho.
Why Pete Fogel?
In 1975, the teenage Mr. Fogel was smoking pot in a friend's house on Long Island, he said, when his friend's older brother came in and played Steely Dan's Katy Lied album. "This weird thing went through my body," he said. "I can't explain it, but it was a religious experience." For me, no other music has come close since. They were the filet mignon and lobster tail of music." Mr. Fogel, who plans to attend every show of Steely Dan's tour, jokes that he has played Kamakiriad 500 times and is on his 47th copy of Katy Lied. Then again, maybe he isn't joking.
No Static At All:
Metal Leg is not authorized by Mr, Fagen and Mr. Becker, who also declined to comment on it. But they do appear to be bemused by its existence. "I met Fagen at a restaurant, and he said, 'This is the guy who does my fan magazine,'" said Mr. Pascador, imitating Mr. Fagen's nasal drawl. "It was very painful for him to say 'fan magazine.' Then he looked at his picture on the cover and said 'I look like Gomer Pyle.'"
—30—
Date: Fri, October 18, 2002, 14:12:11
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
Randy,
That's cool, it does sound a lot like Carlton though doesn't it?
Dennis
Date: Fri, October 18, 2002, 14:10:45
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
Howard,
Yep, Glorified G. That was the tune.
Dennis
Date: Fri, October 18, 2002, 13:06:13
Posted by: Jackie, SoFla
To transcriber-wanna-bes: Besides Hal, I noticed that Cherry Lane is looking for transcriber/arrangers for guitar and piano. Try this link:
http://www.cherrylane.com/clprint/
Re: deadlines- Personally I am not under much pressure here but perhaps it is different for free-lancers. I do about one song per day.
Dan-related note: Sorry to say I have never had the pleasure of transcribing any Dan tunes. It's always a plus to get paid for listening to music you love.
Date: Fri, October 18, 2002, 08:57:45
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA
Previously posted (by me):
"...I poured through a database of magazine articles, unearthing the September 1975 issue of 'Downbeat' which has a well-known article on Steely Dan... Donald is quoted saying that it was Dean Parks who played the solo on "Rose Darling..."
Randy
NIGHTFLY62@aol.com
Date: Fri, October 18, 2002, 07:35:46
Posted by: Howard,
Dennis: Yes, the Hal Leonard transcription guidelines sure ARE detailed. But, there are times when you need to know some of the tiny details, like whether to move the B or C# to the side in a cluster chord, all that kind of stuff...
One problem is that there is no universally accepted standard for guitar notation, so different publishers use slightly different standards for hammer-ons, bends etc. If you're doing freelance stuff that means you have to learn more than one standard.
Out of interest, were you asked to do "Glorified G"?
Howard
Date: Thurs, October 17, 2002, 16:25:32
Posted by: Dennis,
Thanks Earl. You're absolutely right. There are still things that I do verbatim. Can't imagine playing anything different on Don't Take Me Alive, it's a crowd pleaser. Did I read someone said Dean Parks played the solo on Rose Darling? If you listen to the tone and inflections, sounds like Carlton to me.
Date: Thurs, October 17, 2002, 15:35:53
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Dennis...I heard you once, and you definitely don't suck! I think that fans of SD who are music savvy would much rather hear an improvised solo. No one said any of us knew what we were talking about. If people like what you're slammin' out, then by all means go for it! In my previous post, I was more referring to the casual fan who may not pay much attention to the artists that inspired Don and Walt. D+W grew up idolizing jazz greats who made their livings improvising. But in rock 'n roll people have become accustomed to recognizable solo lines. So, I say keep improvising if you've got the chops to do it (kinda like the "smoke 'em if you got 'em" cliche).
Earl
Date: Thurs, October 17, 2002, 15:18:48
Posted by: dennis, Chi
Thanks guys. I guess I don't approach the music from a cover band point of view when I do solos unless it absolutely demands it. For example Rikki is something I always try to play the way Skunk did because it is so much a part of the song. I guess I look at it the same way Steely Dan does, learn the songs to the point of perfection so that when it comes time to solo, I know the changes so well that I can improvise, take some chances and hopefully excite the band, myself and most importantly the listeners. I could stand up there and play the same thing night after night and people would probably dig it because it's true to the original but I guess I'm not that type of player, I've always set out to have my own voice. If you come to a show and I'm absolutely sucking, just tell me and I'll go back to playing the original solos! :-)
Date: Thurs, October 17, 2002, 15:03:49
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Dennis: There's a happy medium IMO. One problem that can be encountered w/ playing true to the recording is that there are few tribute bands that can afford to pay 3 or 4 guitar players. To get an accurate sound from the albums, you pretty much need that, not to mention a complete horn section, etc etc etc.
I think most people probably want to hear the song played the way they remember. So in that respect, I doubt Joe SD Fan is going to discern the right channel guitar part from the left. So in my opinion I would say the best thing to do is to try to extract a rhythm part (or combo of parts) from the song that has recognizable features, but is playable by a guitar section of one.
Getting to soloing, there are definitely songs that contain trademark solos. And then there are songs where the solo was so complicated that it's pretty much open to interpretation (Kid Charlemagne vs. YGT II for example). I think for the first type of song, the most important thing is to hit the cues...for instance, the outro to KC starts with the familiar unison bends, so a guitarist should begin with that cue and work from there to add his/her own signature to the solo. With the latter type, a guitarist/soloist should improvise completely, and carefully measure-count so that the segues are smooth.
I'm not trying to tell anyone how to play a song per se, just my perspective. I am a believer in improvisation to some extent, but there are cases where the audience will enjoy the more familiar riffs.
As far as Fagen impersonators go, I don't see a problem with it, but I've never heard a person trying to mimic his voice. Maybe if I heard someone trying unsuccessfully it would be sour me to the idea. As long as the person is a good singer, I don't think it really matters whether they sing like Donald, Walter, or whomever.
Earl
Earl
Date: Thurs, October 17, 2002, 14:09:24
Posted by: hoops, Chicago
Regarding Dennis' post, my personal preference is for something inspired by the originals, that is innovative and provides a new twist. For example, I am always really floored by Dennis' guitar solos during "FM." That's always a highlight for me at a Katy Lied show.
At the same time, based on experiences in the Greater Dandom, I would say most fans prefer the "note-for-note' presentation of the songs. I think this is because the songs are often so challenging to play and that Becker and Fagen labor over the precise arrangements of every Steely Dan recording. We expect that quality. Plus, a number of Steely Dan songs were never heard live for years: fans have grown accustomed to a very specific presentation of these tunes. I would even say a number of SD tribute bands take pride in how accurately they can reproduce a Steely Dan recording on stage. Some bands seem almost competitive in doing this.
As for what Becker and Fagen think, well, only their hairdresser knows for sure. Clearly, they have reworked classic Steely Dan songs on their recent tours so they must like some changes. and I am sure they admire the session player that takes a smart chance. But of course, during the "Plush" video, when they were on the couch with Pete Fogel, Becker praised San Diego's Steely Damned for offering accurate "note-for-note" recreations of Steely Dan songs. I don't think there is a set "yes" or "no;" but like anything regarding Steely Dan, it comes down to QUALITY and not formula.
Only one thing I definitely can't stand in a Steely Dan tribute band: when the lead vocalist TRYS WAY TOO HARD to sound exactly like Fagen on the original recordings. Katy Lied's Bob Blum does a great job between respecting and utilizing Fagen's original vocal nuances while also singing like Bob Blum.
All my two piasters.
h
Date: Thurs, October 17, 2002, 13:56:49
Posted by: Hank Silvers, Just passing thru...
The fiscal year is over, financial statements all stated, and what's more, the mainframe is down this afternoon. Better still, there's a new Newsletter and its angular observations in the in-box. Makes it a good time to revisit some old stomping grounds.
FWIW, my answers are Aja (with Home at Last a close second) and 11 Tracks of Whack. Sure would be good to hear again the NY Rock and Soul Revue version of Deacon Blues, with Mindy Jostyn's violin solo.
Uh-oh, the email says the mainframe's back up. For how long, who knows, but like the guy from Duck's Breath says, I gotta go. OK, everyone, carry on...
Date: Thurs, October 17, 2002, 12:04:18
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
Hey, for anyone interested in transcribing. You can contact Hal Leonard and they will send you a manual on what the requirements are for transcribing. I have a copy of it myself. It is definitely a full time job. They sent me a Pearl Jam song to transcribe to see if I was qualified. So they wanted all parts played transcribed. Electric Guitar 1, Electric Guitar 2, Acoustic Guitar, Words and Melody, Lead Guitar parts, fills etc. They give you guidelines that you have to strictly follow such as what color pens to use for what parts etc. Interesting and it would be a fun job, but you better have a ton of time to do it. If you are doing "Fake Books" it would be much easier because all you have to do is figure out the chords. Fake books are really lame usually, especially the Steely Dan ones I've come across. The best Steely Dan books IMHO are the ones by the guitar magazines, they usually say "Guitar Recorded Version" on them. They have all the great parts in notation and tab and they even tell you who played the solo on top when the solo starts.
Looking forward to playing with Katy Lied on Saturday at Harry's of Arlington Heights. It is always a blast to play these songs. After playing a lot this summer I am really having fun now. The arrangements get easier and easier and I find myself improvising a lot more freely now. I no longer find myself needing to play the Kid Charlemegne solo note for note for example, I just do my own thing (whatever that is!). I think D&W prefer this from their musicians. So, my question to all of you is:
If you were going out to see a Dan cover band, would you rather the instrumentalists played exactly what was on the album, or hear them put their own stamp on it? Assuming that the soloist is good of course, and has something to say.
Date: Thurs, October 17, 2002, 07:28:23
Posted by: Howard,
Jackie: I appreciate what you say about the transcribing business. I've done some freelance guitar transcription work, and I have quite a different attitude towards the songbooks now than I did before! Before all I thought about was accuracy. I still DO get obsessed by that, but now realise that from a songbook publisher's point of view there are other considerations, e.g getting the music to look good on the page. Accuracy without excessive detail or clutter.
Was it just the work I did, or are the deadlines for the transcription business always so tight?!? I usually had a matter of 3 or 4 days to transcribe the songs when I got them. With the SD stuff I do for myself, I have time to go over the parts again and again till they're right. If I was doing these songs for a job I know I would probably have to trade a little accuracy for speed.
About the "no 3rd" chords, if you have the piano part written out it wouldn't be too bad to leave out the "no 3rd" part in the chord name. But in the guitar books, you often get a top line of chord names, then solos/riffs etc in tablature underneath, so there's nothing to indicate the lack of a 3rd in the chord. It's here that I consider leaving out the "no 3rd" part of the chord name the biggest crime!
As for more general chord name "discussions", the guitar newsgroups often have some entertaining examples of this. Usually, the person with the loudest voice is the one who has the worst idea of what the name should be! How many hundreds of times have the differences of "sus2" and "add2" chords been discussed?!?
Howard
Date: Wed, October 16, 2002, 17:11:38
Posted by: norm, Bose 901
DJ - I got a pair of Bose 901 speakers (Series I) in the late 1970's, and I still have them. I'm sure an audiophile could make the claim that they don't sound as great as they did 25 years ago, but they do in fact still sound great. The newer series has a snazzier look too, so they're well worth the cost. If you live someplace where blasting your tunes isn't encouraged, maybe the 301 or 501 would suit your purposes better...?
Speaking of audiophile obsessiveness, are any of you familiar with that Steve Martin bit about buying the googlephonic system with the moon rock needle?
Date: Wed, October 16, 2002, 17:05:47
Posted by: Michelle, Princeton Jct,
Hey everyone!
Long time no see! The latest Steely Dan newsletter got me all stoked so I had to check in! A radio show special with Walter and Donald and word of the new album. Now you know why I am stoked.
Couple of thoughts. One is, could the Piano Jazz special be part of the next wave of the media blitz for the new project? If so then release is just around the corner. Yahoo!
Also, do you think Carolyn and Michael's dad Jay will appear on the album? I mean, Jay is on the special. I read a while ago, maybe here, Keith Carlock is on the album and he's also on the special.
I know, I'm feeling an elephant and I probably just stuck my hand up his butt!!!
Michelle
Date: Wed, October 16, 2002, 16:57:23
Posted by: Jackie, SoFla, not so good
Earl: I was just in the right place at the right time (in other words: a God-incidence). We use Finale notation software.
Date: Wed, October 16, 2002, 14:02:15
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Jackie: Thing is, as you probably know, one does not need to play every note in a chord to simulate the harmonic texture of the complete chord. For instance, the G13 is usually played on guitar with the notes G-F-B-E, which disregards the 5th, 9th, and the 11th that are technically incorporated in a 13 chord. But as you say there are many ways to denote chords. For instance, a song we're performing tonight in church starts w/ the chord "C#m7(#5)". If you look at the chord overall, though, you realize that it's really an Aadd2/C# (or, Amumajor/C# since it is an SD Board).
So how do you break into the xscribing business? I enjoy transcribing as a hobby, and it would seem like a neat field to be in. I use Coda Allegro, but there are some limitations (such as the inability to denote a (no3) chord with the chord tool). It does a decent job nonetheless. Would be even better if I had a more powerful 'puter.
Hoops: From Google search, the Blind Man/Elephant parable is from Indian traditional folklore from what I can tell. I guess it's supposed to mock all of us fans who try to interpret their songs! Either that, or those of us who try to divine when the new album and/or tour will appear. Either way, I guess they are trying to prove our lack of knowledge of the situation.
Earl
Date: Wed, October 16, 2002, 13:32:11
Posted by: Scott,
Marian McPartland's "Piano Jazz" with Donald and Walter sounds as if it will certainly be a treat! Can anyone suggest a good McPartland CD for those who are not that familiar with her work?
(Although I do not want this board to turn into an audiophile Q+A, I will say this with regard to speaker selection, there is an elaborate audio review site at audioreview.com - may also be a good site for those of us needing to update to DVD-A systems.)
Date: Wed, October 16, 2002, 10:30:43
Posted by: Randy's Pal,
"If music followed the sophistication of the technology, we'd all be listening to Debussy right now."--Donald Fagen, 2001
Date: Wed, October 16, 2002, 09:49:52
Posted by: DJ,
Speaker Question? Moving into a new condo at end of month and I am told by the girl friend I must update my old Sansui Towers...maybe it's the dancing skeletons or the Stones Tongue stickers but somehow she thinks they won't fit into the new grown up decor.
So, anyone have experience with the Bose 701 or 901's? I have the Bose 301 book shelf set, and am not sure I like the direct-reflect set up. I was also looking at Acoustic Research AR-5's with the 10 inch powered sub-woofer built into the tower.
Anyway, any suggestions or recco's in and around $1000-1400 would be appreciated.
Thanks
Kid Chardonnay
Date: Wed, October 16, 2002, 09:47:56
Posted by: Jackie, So far, So Fla
Howard, thanks for the confirmation. After I sent that post I remembered the passing G - A/G - G in Aja you pointed out. Funny you played both songs at the same time!
About songbooks, I should come out of the closet and say I am a transcriptionist for one of the big companies and each person has his own way of naming the chords. Some leave the 3rds in the name of the chord but leave the notes out in the piano, which isn't acurate but convenient. Some incorportate the vocal harmonies in the chord names even when they are not played, such as 7ths or 9ths. Sometimes I hear raised voices in the next room between arrangers over what to call that chord! We try to have some consistency and be accurate but it is difficult.
Date: Wed, October 16, 2002, 07:42:10
Posted by: Howard,
Jackie - I'd be tempted to take Aja too, what a song.
BTW, you're right about the F#7(no 3rd) to D#7(no 3rd) chord change on "dude ranch", "hardware" etc. The funny thing is, this is one of several common errors for Aja in the SD songbooks. I think all the songbooks write this bit as F#7 D#7, which sounds terrible! It's good that you trust your ears more than the songbooks.
You're also right to spot the connection between the "Chinese music..." sequence in Aja and "Rikki don't lose that number...". They are almost identical in terms of harmony and melody (two voices moving in 3rds). The weird thing is, the tempo of these two songs is also identical. I tried splicing together the two sections, Aja in the left channel, and Rikki in the right, and they fit like a glove!
For the chords to this bit, I would put them as E7(no 3rd) G A/G G. Again, most songbooks screw it up by writing E7. The absence of the 3rd in that chord is crucial.
Howard
Date: Tues, October 15, 2002, 22:09:54
Posted by: hoops, P.S.S. (Peg Script Script)
Peg—
The Truuuth: It's totally a cosmic allignment. I SWEAR I knew nothing at all about D + W, et al taping "Piano Jazz." Credit? LOL!
I hope "Cosmic Wow" doesn't mind but...
WoW!!!
h
Date: Tues, October 15, 2002, 22:06:25
Posted by: Peg, Ditto
Okay, so I wrote my last post while Hoopsie did.
Hoops, you get credit for giving her the idea to have them on, I'd say.
Date: Tues, October 15, 2002, 22:03:29
Posted by: hoops, p.s.
As a Steely Dan fan, I take waiting in stride, but I was thinking the erroneous release date of "The Nightfly" DVD-A for October 29th would have been cool since it would have been 40 years pretty much to the day of the end of the Cuban Missile Crisis ("Thirteen Days in October"). I thought that was a cool tie-in given the subject matter of the album. Of course some of you might argue that it was also exactly 2.5 years (!!!) to the day that 2vN was released :-)
laters,
h
Date: Tues, October 15, 2002, 22:00:43
Posted by: Peg, Reeling
Hoopsie, ooo, is this McPartland stuff a cosmic coincidence? A stellar alignment of the most unusual porportions? Did you really not know about the radio show beforehand? Tell the Truuuth!
Susan, I hope you're doing better. Good music really is healing, I think. Was in an office supply store yesterday, a downcast Monday-- blah. The Muzak was spewing out junk, real loud. Then on comes "New Frontier!" Yeah. Provisions and lots of beer!! Instant elation. Tides turned, clouds parted, and the remaining hours had the right dynamic. ;)
Hooray, the Dan Dudes are still working on that NEw OnE!
Date: Tues, October 15, 2002, 21:52:07
Posted by: hoops, chicago
W1P: 2002 Dannys...well, that was pre-empted by the Charette (wink). But you can bet that the next Dannys will allow you to vote for people, places, things and state of minds ever since the last Dannys. Maybe in 2003??? Who knows.
Between the DVD-A, the Marian McPartland's Piano Jazz appearance with D + W and friends and The Nightfly DVD-A, I'm excietd as hell. I didn't realize how much of a funk I've been in until talk of all the aforementioned. Can't wait! Based on the clarification of the Stereo mix, etc, I guess this means we all have to get DVD-A players for our cars. [ "Is there DVD-A in the car? Yes, there's DVD-A in the car."]
Dave, my thing for Marian (not Marion) McPartland is strictly spontaneous coincidence. I'm probably more surprised in a lot of ways than you are (assuming you are).
I've liked her show for a long time (NPR junkie I am) but, like I said, I had this "moving experience" —pun intended—during her show with Monica Mancini when I moved to Chicago (see one of my August 20th posts). And then it was another great thrill/coincidence when she spent a week in Chicago last month and I got to catch some of her sets at Jazz Showcase.
Of course, one thing I feel awkward about is that I prepared some questions for her as a sort of mini-interview. To make a long story short, Pete Fogel told me McPartland is a huge Dan fan—he knows this because Marian McPartland was a diehard subscriber to "Metal Leg" (Isn't that incredible?)! So I thought I would interview her. Of course, one of the questions, was:
"Forgive my ignorance if they have already been on your long running show, but have Donald Fagen or Walter Becker or both ever been on 'Piano Jazz'?"
I expected the answer—if she did indeed answer—would be either that it was in the 1980s when I didn't know about her show, or that she'd like to have them on, or maybe she had some other comment. So this is just great!
On some occasions, she's said something to the effect that playing with a guitarist on "Piano Jazz" would be difficult because, most guitarists tend to compete rather than complement or duet with the piano. Having heard her say that, part of me was wondering if she would only ever have Fagen on, not that Becker with his playing and producing sensibilities wouldn't be up to it.
With a D + W appearance on "Piano Jazz" for February, I am ABSOLUTELY ELATED. Yet, I somehow now feel awkward to pursue the 20 or so questions I had for her. Not sure what to do about that.
So where DID "The Parable of The Blind Man and The Elephant" come from and who wrote it?
Date: Tues, October 15, 2002, 21:01:14
Posted by: W1P, LA
Speaking of the Dannys -- what happened to the 2002 edition? DIDan? At this moment, I'd vote for either Babylon Sisters or Kid C.
On my drive to Phoenix this weekend I was listening to the Eagles Milennium Concert CD (from their box set -- I also was there). On that Disc are Dirty Laundry, All She Wants to Do is Dance and Funk # 49 which means those tracks have now been released by the "Eagles" (no, they did not play Smuggler's Blues or Heavy Metal that night though they should have). On AIA we have Book of Liars. Any other examples of bandmembers bringing previously released solo tracks to their supergroups for later release either live or in the studio?
Date: Tues, October 15, 2002, 19:23:40
Posted by: Lurker,
Rex: The stereo mix on the Nightfly DVD-A will not be playable in a cd player, this disc is a DVD not a CD. There will be an advanced resolution surround sound mix and an advanced resolution stereo mix, and you must have a DVD-A player to hear either.
Hoops: Pretty freaky about the McPartland thing.
Date: Tues, October 15, 2002, 18:48:54
Posted by: Rex, Out West
In reference to the newsletter, when it mentions that the DVD-A of The Nightfly will also have a stereo mix, does this mean that this version will be compatible in regular CD players?
Any info would be great,
RR
Date: Tues, October 15, 2002, 14:32:04
Posted by: Were you Blind that day?,
he Blind Man and the Elephant
It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant~(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation~Might satisfy his mind.
The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side, ~ At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant ~ Is very like a wall!"
The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, "Ho! what have we here?
So very round and smooth and sharp? ~ To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant ~ Is very like a spear!"
The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands, ~ Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant ~ Is very like a snake!"
The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like ~ Is mighty plain," quoth her;
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant ~ Is very like a tree!"
The Fifth who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most; ~ Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant ~ Is very like a fan!"
The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail ~ That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant ~ Is very like a rope!
And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion ~ Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right ~ And all were in the wrong!
Date: Tues, October 15, 2002, 14:17:58
Posted by: Mr. LePage, I think you know what I mean...
Steelydan.com website is also updated: Fall '02 - Still recording... No release date yet.
JL
Date: Tues, October 15, 2002, 13:57:00
Posted by: John, Erie PA
1981-1992 was a vast desert island as far as this Steely fan is concerned. Can I choose the Overture to the 1993 shows as my desert island track? It has Royal Scam, Bad Sneakers, and Aja in it. And it was the first music I heard as Becker and Fagen finally came to my rescue after all that time.
"The taste you said you'd bring to me."
John
Date: Tues, October 15, 2002, 12:57:01
Posted by: Dave,
What a thrill to get the Steely Dan Newsletter today!
#1: Too bad about there not being an actual release date on the next album. Tickled to know they are working on it.
#2: What is this Hoopsie? Out of the blue- pun intended?- you write about Marion McPartland and The Nightfly DVD and then the Steely Newsletter addresses it. I mean Marion McPartland for Chrissakes! What Steely Dan fan talks about her? Then YOU do! I never even heard of her before you posted. And now this? Are you on the inside??? Did you know about this in advance?
Bloops was crudely obnoxious in his bashing the Yellow Pages, but I AM glad that we also have this place to provide Steely Dan chat of substance. It's great we have a place to "classy chit chat" and another to talk "Clas." Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.
Good to hear from the boys.
Dave
Date: Tues, October 15, 2002, 09:24:32
Posted by: Jackie, SoFla
Desert Island song: Aja Aja Aja Aja Aja Aja!!! The song that made me fall in love with the Dan. The song that has the coolest simple chord change I ever heard (During the verses on "Hard-ware") F#7(no 3rd) to D#7(no 3rd), if I’m not mistaken. Also, love the change from "Chinese music in the -- Banyan trees." E9 to G(mu)major. Same as in Rikki, I think "You don't wanna --call". I hope I am making sense. I just love this song!
Date: Tues, October 15, 2002, 09:01:25
Posted by: Carrie Mays, Southwest North Carolina
Check your SD Newsletter #18, 10/15/02 for wonderful news!
"THE NEW PROJECT"
So what if no release date is set. I'll wait!
Date: Mon, October 14, 2002, 19:27:27
Posted by: Mr. LePage,
My Top 3 Desert Island's (just one ain't enough): Don't Take Me Alive (awesome LC), Green Earrings, Pretzel Logic.
"I'm always laughing..."
Date: Mon, October 14, 2002, 17:43:59
Posted by: heymike, just a shadow
Desert Island?? am I the only one that STILL gets goosebumps from the guitar solo on "reelin'"?? otherwise Royal Scam, Deacon Blues..top 3.
Date: Mon, October 14, 2002, 17:13:20
Posted by: Peg, smoker underground
Desert Island: Green Earrings. Best of all grooves. Then again, my fave does change, too. And thanks, Howard, for the info on who plays the solos.
As for a previous comment (can't find now who said it) about how the John Mayer song, Neon, could have been on 2VN: Nope, don't agree. Yes, the beginning of it could have been, but the rest is too pretty and sweet. 2VN has its pretty moments, but John Mayer's just not afraid of beauty at all, which is what makes him so likeable. Personally I'd like to hear more prettiness, a la "Doctor Wu" and "Aja," on the next CD from the Dan. And more warmth!! More music for the sincere love of it, for the feel of it, not for the techno-am-i-cool-or-what of it.
Which brings me to agree with Pivotal Pete again, concerning a coldness on 2VN. There is a distancing to 2VN, a disconnection. I don't know what other words to use than that. It's as if they're not playing in your living room, no matter how loud your speakers. I'm not saying the stuff isn't great. It is. it's just...
As for Kama, well, Pete, I figured Donald had had an off year. Overall, it comes off as being insincere. Sure, a couple songs are okay, like Snowbound, etc., but...
Date: Mon, October 14, 2002, 15:47:19
Posted by: doctorwu51,
Desert Island selection would likely be(surprise)Doctor Wu. However, I could listen to Glamour Profession for a good long while. Then there's the matter of Aja & the Steve Gadd drum thing. Can I count all of "Royal Scam" as a selection? Oh, shit, it's hopeless...
Date: Mon, October 14, 2002, 14:14:47
Posted by: dennis, chicago
My desert island Dan tune is definitely Your Gold Teeth II!
Date: Mon, October 14, 2002, 12:27:21
Posted by: Cosmic WoW,
Two Against Nature chilly and inconsistent? It's a perfect album! And there's not enought great to say about Walter's understated lead guitar that permeates the album.
WoW ('d by Two Against Nature)
¸,ř ş°`°ş ř,¸¸,ř ş°`°ş ř,¸¸,ř ş°`°ş ř,¸¸,ř ş°`°ş ř,¸¸,ř ş°`°ş ř,¸¸,ř ş°`°ş ř,¸¸
Date: Sun, October 13, 2002, 21:32:43
Posted by: hoops, chicago
2vN on DVD-A: I hear it's amazing. Plus the disc has the "corrected" green color. :-)
Desert Island Dan tune. Well, one song over and over would kill me. But if I would pick my personal fav, "Bad Sneakers" performed by just Donald and Walter on piano and bass, respectively.
I believe "Deacon Blue" is perhaps Steely Dan's most exquiste recording, fucking amazing.
Yes, Sean, there was indeed a switch in Gaucho DTS 5.1 packaging about a year ago BUT I don't know that they tweaked it at all, nor if a DVD-A is in the pipeline. But let's hope whoever puts out the Gaucho DTS 5.1 gets their act together in terms of pricing. The cheapest I can find it for these days is $17.99 at Virgin Megastore. Typically, I've been seeing $22.99 to $24.99. All of Warner's latest DVD-A's are typically showing up for $14.99 like at Circuit City and Best Buy. The $12.99 for "The Nightfly" at J & R is the cheapest I have seen; but there is shipping for me where I am at.
I did see "Gaucho" in DTS 5.1 for $12.99 mispriced at a Best Buy a while back…shoulda snapped it up. Am I incorrect to expect DTS 5.1 "Gaucho" to sell for less? (Don't get me wrong, the music on it is *priceless,* as those MasterCard commercials say.
Susan: I'm sorry to hear about your health problems and hope things inprove for you.
Hey "Hey Mike." See you there!
Am I the only one jonesin' for SD to bring back "Chain Lightning" on the next tour?
Great threads, people. You inspire me.
Enough of my stream of consiousness, huh?
h
Date: Sun, October 13, 2002, 04:55:03
Posted by: Bloops, ooops!
Hey! Did you see over at the yellow that St.Al is taking away everyones privacy again???! What an ASS! I've really enjoyed all the threads lately. Thanks for posting!
Date: Sat, October 12, 2002, 22:15:46
Posted by: DrMµ,
Pete: you should hear TvN on DVD-A
Date: Sat, October 12, 2002, 21:15:48
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California
Submitted for input ...
Desert island. All alone. One SD song to keep you company. Your choice?
Think I know my selection but, hey, I asked first ...
P.S. Bonus points if you can name the *entire* musician line-up for your choice!
Date: Sat, October 12, 2002, 21:12:09
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Beerberian: Good point...Wu is one of my alltime favorite songs, and although I don't think of it as much of a groove song, it is very alluring. Chain Lightning as well...but sometimes you have to draw the line. I always change my mind too...one day I think one song is the greatest, the next day I've got another one on my mind. Oh well, it's great to have 8 albums to listen to...looking forward to 9.
Earl
Date: Sat, October 12, 2002, 21:10:00
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California
Catching up on a lot of great threads and comments. Piling on:
- Nightfly: I think Rhino's wrong. It may not be sardonic, but that album is soaking with upbeat irony. The whole theme of the album--Post WWII optimism under the threat of The Bomb, assassination, Vietnam, racism, anti-Americanism--is ironic. And the lyrics are some of the wittiest and most ironic. "I like your eyes ... I like him, too" "Would you pour me a Cuban Breeze, Gretchen?" Lots more to savor and laugh at.
- Donald, perfectionism, etc. Seems to me Dennis was right: "Overproduction to me is the blatant overuse of effects, compression and eq to polish something that doesn't sound good to begin with." I'm sorry that, to me, a lot of the "soul" of both Kamakiriad and 2VN were eq'd away and leave it feeling colder than it should have. The opening bass line of 11 Tracks ("Down in the Bottom") sets a very different tone that's more earthy and satisfying. Still, the talent shines through on both albums (Kama and 2VN) so they're still great overall. Just not as consistently strong as prior SD albums and Nightfly and kinda chilly.
I'd also say the song topics are in a bit of a rut. I think I prefer the criminal stories and warped religion more than another sad middle aged guy trying to remember or recapture youth. Got enougha that in my real world...
- Rhythm sections: Too many to think about, but I'd definitely include New Frontier and I Got the News. All the nominated ones are great,
Hoops, thanks lots for the article!
Date: Sat, October 12, 2002, 18:16:29
Posted by: Sean, Quincy, Mass.
I want to buy Gaucho on DVD-A. Is there only a DTS version? Is a DVD-A version in the pipeline?
I was shopping online and saw the DTS Gaucho release date listed as April 2001. I know I have seen it before then. Was there an inital DTS release of Gaucho, followed by an update? Somehow I keep thinking this was simply an update in the type of case it came in. Anyone?
Sean
Date: Sat, October 12, 2002, 17:43:54
Posted by: Elaine, The Valley
I'm sorry to hear about your health problems, Susan. But so glad that the music we all know and love has brought you respite. I hope your health problems are over soon.
Elaine
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 22:12:00
Posted by: HeyMike, The city of St.John
My son just came running in here to say that Rick Marotta is on Lissy McGuire on Disney--(they said he played with Dan)--Dig it! Thanks for all the great threads... a good daily read for a musical novice like me. Helps me learn to appreciate it all even more!!
.....I cried when I wrote this post......
Let's gather to see Katy Lied soon Midwest DanHeads.
Mike
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 20:45:58
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
J&R has The Nightfly DVD-A for $12.99!
http://www.jandr.com/JRMusicAlbumPage.process?RestartFlow=t&Merchant_Id=1&A_Id=R+++++7048&Artist_Description=FAGEN%2CDONALD&Title=NIGHTFLY
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 19:42:43
Posted by: Susan, Chicago
On August 9, 2000, I was due to have a small cyst removed. As I lay heavily sedated upon the operating table, I overheard the doctors talk. It seemed like they were saying that I had a possibly malignant
tumor of an enormous nature which had attached itself to multiple organs. As I lay there, I began to think about how fortunate I was to have had the honor of seeing Steely Dan in concert not once, but twice in my wee existence of 25 years. As a matter of fact, one time had been not even two months prior....as another matter of fact......I'm the mystery lady in the "Don and Walt are Sexy" video which was nominated for a Danny! Anyway, my tumor turned out to be benign. My recovery time was brief, because I medicated myself with the best meds available...the music of Steely Dan. I have continuous health problems, but I don't whine. As long as I have the Dan, I can handle anything that comes my way.
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 18:39:15
Posted by: DrMµ,
Beerman: that builds to the pinnacle of Steelydom..." but imagine my surprise...when I saw youuuuuuu..."
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 17:48:48
Posted by: Beerberian,
Chain Lightning ......I rest my case
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 17:44:17
Posted by: Beerberian,
Earl; Rythym grooves ..... come on man you gotta incl. Dr Wu post solo drives ..the build to "katy lies" Bosendorfer unfettered, Sax unrestrained
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 16:40:19
Posted by: angel,
Hoops: Thank you so much for actually TYPING that interview. What an enlightening read.
I especially like the comment that he didn't cry when he wrote that song. Just too funny!
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 15:23:42
Posted by: hoops, chicago
I first came in contact with this article in the August 1994, 25th issue of Pete Fogel and Bill Pascador’s “Metal Leg” in their “Classic Tracks” feature. In turn this is an interview by Paul Quinn from the January 1994 issues of the UK publication, “Making Music” on some classic Steely Dan tracks. I thought it was great now and it’s been great to re-read after all these years.
“Making Music” does not seem to have this on the web, and John G’s “Metal Leg” archives doesn’t reach to this issue. So I thought, “What the hell, let’s get this out there once more.” With my OCR not working, I typed it in. My apologies for the typos that are mine. Now that I've typed it, someone will find it on-line elsewhere! :-)
Some of Fagen’s comments are common knowledge to many of you Dan fans; yet, it’s insightful to consider how Donald presents his perspectives and recollections. Other comments seem to address some of the recent, great Steely Dan discussion that has been prevalent in the BlueBook. Another thing to keep in mind is that Fagen and Quinn have probably altered their perspectives on these songs since almost nine years ago when this interview was conducted.
So without any more disclaimers and caveats, here’s an interview with Donald Fagen by Paul Quinn from the January 1994 issue of “Making Music.”
-----------------------------------------
Do It Again
“We wrote that very quickly,” recalls Donald (Hard to imagine, considering their later dilatoriness, but Steely Dan released three gold-selling albums in their first three years.) “There was a vocal sound on it that we always tried to get afterwards; but what happened was Roger Nichols, the engineer, had put the signal through a machine called the Cooper Time Tube, which was broken at the time. Then after that record, it broke completely.” Trouble was they didn’t know exactly what was wrong with the machine to make it produce that particular effect, and so they never managed to reproduce it exactly.”
Reelin’ In The Years
“I had this friend, Elliot Randall (by chance a top session guitarist), who was visiting, so we asked him to go out and play the solo. And people still comment on it. We were just lucky.” Most of the early guitar work, though, was done by full-time Dan-guitarists Denny Dias and Jeff “Skunk” Baxter. “The be-bop-sounding solos were Denny Dias, he had a kind of jazz style, and then Jeff Baxter did the more blues-type, powerful sounding guitar stuff. So you can easily tell them apart.”
Midnight Cruiser
“That was sung by the drummer, Jim Hodder. It was the only song he ever sung, aside from a very early single called “Dallas.” In those days, we had just started, and we didn’t know exactly what we were doing,” laughs Donald, “so whoever said, ‘Hey, let me try that one,’ we’d say OK. Because I didn’t want to sing it—I’d just as soon not sing any of them. The song was about a guy named Felonius, which indicated that he was a felon of some sort…”
Quite a few Steely Dan songs seem to be about criminal activity or general low-life goings on: “Well, in those days we used to say up late in the city, which included all kinds of characters. We used to work in the Brill Building, in the music section of Broadway, and although we didn’t really have an association with criminals, we used to see a lot of weird stuff on the street.”
Dirty Work
“A very straight-ahead pop-song that we had David Palmer sing. He did a good job, too.” The pop penchant was gradually replaced by more complex compositions: “Yeah, we got bored after a while, and started playing around with them. When we started we weren’t sure what kind of a band we wanted to have, so there was a large variety of different kinds of songs on there. As continued writing, we started using more of the jazz stuff we knew. I think we finally centered in on a style, but it took a few albums.” Does he ever get the urge to write snappy pop tunes now? “I’m not really in control of that. Walter and I both changed as we grew older. Without that development, it’s like you’re just repeating yourself.”
My Old School
“That was written about the college we went to, Bard College, and the problems of our college romance. We also used to play that song live a lot in our shows before it was recorded, so we already had the arrangement. It had a lot of energy to it, and a nice horn part.”
Bodhisattva
At the same time, a lot of Eastern religious thought was popular in the United States and still is. People thought they could somehow easily move into this Zen and Mahayana Buddhism, this enlightened state, and it’s very difficult for a Westerner to do that, because it’s really a cultural thing. So it was kinds of a satire: ‘I’m going to sell my house in town, I’m going to move to China and Japan.’”
“The version we recorded was really our live version of the song; it was when we still had the original band, and we just played the love version in the studio. Denny Dias is famous for doing the solo in the middle. He’s a great guitar player; as a matter of fact, when we were on tour (the 1993 Steely Dan revival tour), we played Los Angeles, where Denny lives, and he sat in and played his original spot. 'Bodhisattva' was fun.”
Rikki Don’t Lose That Number & Charlie Freak
Rumour goes it’s about session guitarist Rick Derringer… “Naw,” laughs Don: “we just knew a girl at college named Rikki so used her name.” It really is about giving a girl your phone number. Oh, well. I ask Donald about one of my other favorite tracks on “Pretzel Logic,” which sadly never appears on any compilations—“Charlie Freak.” “Oh yeah, I like that one, too,” says Fagen. Alas, it wasn’t based on a true-life drugs and death street tragedy: “We were trying to create this kind of contemporary O Henry story, of Dickens-type mood.”
Black Friday
“About the financial crash—really about the original 1929 crash, but oddly enough several stock crashes happened not long after it was written. I always liked the guitar work on there: that was Walter, actually.”
The “Katy Lied” album is often noted for its uncharacteristically dodgy sound. There is an explanation: “The noise reduction system we were using at the time wouldn’t decode properly. That was a very beautiful-sounding album and it lost a bit of fidelity in the decode. We managed to noodle around a little and got it sounding OK, but it never quite sounded the same.”
Kid Charlemagne
“I always liked that song; it’s about an acid dealer in California who was coming to the end of his career, the police were closing in on him. It had a space for a long solo in the middle, which was overdubbed by Larry Carlton. A really nice solo, some nice transitions. We had an arrangement written out—the first couple of verses and choruses; and then we’d say, ‘Well, what happens now?’ “We’d say, ‘Let’s have somebody do a solo.’ We weren’t even sure at the time if it would be a guitar solo. But we’d write a little arrangement trying to develop some of the musical material from the verses and choruses, and that’s the way it would be recorded. Then we’d get a soloist to come in and we’d say, “Just play from this part of the chart to that part.”
Haitian Divorce
“The solo’s played by a guitarist called Dean Parks, who did a good job. Then we decided we wanted to have a kind of wah-wah expression, so that was done later by Walter, using this breathing device—I think Roger the engineer put something together for us, just a tube into a little transformer. It’s a really great sound. We did have Dean try it at first, but this machine was a new thing and he wasn’t very good at doing it, so Walter had to learn it. He took a quick mix home and listened for days to Dean’s solo and memorized it.”
Peg
“Basically a blues tune—we did a lot of blues-type things, trying to play with the blues form, and that was one of them.” “Aja” was Steely Dan’s most successful album—ironic considering the pop gems they’d produced in earlier years. Lighter in tone than “The Royal Scam,” it obviously coincided with a public demand for jazz-tinged AOR.
Deacon Blues
“We were really proud of that song. It was kind of a socio-cultural explanation of how we grew up, and some of the reasons that people become musicians. It was a long song and I was always amazed that they played the whole thing on the radio. And it had a great saxophone solo by Pete Christlieb.” Did Fagen really, as he says in the last verse, cry when he wrote this song? “No, I’m afraid not,” he laughs. “People sometimes think they’re all completely autobiographical, or that it’s ‘me’ singing. But I try to play a character in the song, it’s basically an acting job. I take the guise of these different characters. In that way I’m allowed to be what I want.”
Babylon Sisters & Hey Nineteen
The last Steely Dan album. To me at least, it sounds like the fun had gone out of it by then, replaced by a dour technical fastidiousness. Donald doesn’t really agree: “I don’t know, we always had a lot of fun. I think on the ‘Gaucho’ album we were trying to go for something so specific that maybe we were forcing the musicians into styles that weren’t their natural styles, and there is a kind of stiffness to that record. But I think those two cuts came out great; some of the other tunes on the album I thought were a little dead-sounding. But I like those two songs.”
—30—
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 13:57:51
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Just to mention, the Making Of Aja video has some great footage, including Rick Marotta demonstrating the excellent groove he laid down for "Peg." There have been some points discussed here over the last couple of days that I remember hearing from that video, and I recommend it to anyone who is looking for some insight into the recording practices of the Dan.
I was in the shower listening to the Gaucho album the other morning, and "Time Out of Mind" came on. Another tune with Marotta's drum work, and I would have to give it an A+ as far as groove goes. It's one of the top grooves in the Steely Dan collection.
So here's a question...in your opinion, what's the finest groove laid down by a Steely Dan rhythm section? My top 5:
1. Home At Last - Purdie, Rainey, + Carlton guitar figures
2. Time Out Of Mind - Marotta and Becker
3. Green Earrings - Purdie and Rainey
4. Black Cow - Paul Humphrey and Chuck Rainey - subtle yet seductive
5. Babylon Sisters - Purdie and Rainey
Most of the early songs I would say lacked much of a groove, but as their jazz influences took over, B+F really made sure they were getting the guys whose rhythms drive the music.
Earl
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 13:30:59
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA
Rick Marotta is the drummer on "Don't Take Me Alive" from 'The Royal Scam' (1976)-
Randy/NIGHTFLY62@aol.com
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 12:58:19
Posted by: hoops, chicago
A couple of notes about dandom.com & Radio Free Dandom availability, assuming it matters to you:
1) Live365.com, which hosts Radio Free Dandom, RFD2 and most of the other Dan Fan radio stations, will be down for 12-18 hours starting tomorrow (Saturday, October 12) at 9 pm NYC time/8 pm Chicago/6 pm PT for 12-18 hours. This means the stations should be streaming again as early as 9 am or as late as 3 pm (NYC time) on Sunday.
2) dandom.com's ISP will be performing some memory upgrades. These upgrades will start on October 21, 2002, finish on October 23, 2002, and will be done between the hours of 2am to 6am NYC Time. The estimated downtime for this upgrade should be less than 15 minutes. Or so say they say. That means the BlueBook and other associated dandom.com/Dandom Digest services may be briefly down.
I know, you are all scurrying to plan your postings, etc. Right.
Anywhoo, thought I'd reaffirm that any outages weren't due to your computer or the content of your posts.
h
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 12:18:50
Posted by: W1P,
Hank Easton uses a "talk box" on Haitian Divorce when playing live with The Steely Damned
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 11:42:23
Posted by: DrMµ,
Dennis: See the liner notes for Royal Scam which credit Rick Marotta as one of 2 drummers (the other being of course Bernard Purdie). Marotta played on at least 1 track. The style on DTMA sounds like Marotta (notice no shufle) + I have 2 independent, although 3rd hand sources that ID Marotta on that track... Ahitian Divorce, Kid C, Caves, SiS (awesome shuffle here), Fez (I believe), Haitian Divorce, and Royal Scam all certainly sound like Purdie...something in the snare and rock backbeat of EYD that have me leaning Marotta...
BTW, Purdie does claim to have done all tracks on the last 3 Steely Dan 1.0 albums + most of the Beatles' drumming as well...
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 11:41:41
Posted by: DrMµ,
Dennis: See the liner notes for Royal Scam which credit Rick Marotta as one of 2 drummers (the other being of course Bernard Purdie). Marotta played on at least 1 track. The style on DTMA sounds like Marotta (notice no shufle) + I have 2 independent, although 3rd hand sources that ID Marotta on that track... Ahitian Divorce, Kid C, Caves, SiS (awesome shuffle here), Fez (I believe), Haitian Divorce, and Royal Scam all certainly sound like Purdie...something in the snare and rock backbeat of EYD that have me leaning Marotta...
BTW, Purdie does claim to have done all tracks on the last 3 albums + most of the Beatles' drumming as well...
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 11:20:00
Posted by: dennis,
That is Rick Marotta on Peg though.
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 11:09:50
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
Bernard Purdie is the only drummer on the Royal Scam. He has an unmistakeable style.
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 11:03:21
Posted by: norm,
Howard - you may be right. It's been a while since I read that Brian Sweet book, but I could've sworn it was Marotta...ahhh, what do I know?
(Well, I know it's a great groove, and that's good enough for me!)
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 10:47:05
Posted by: DrMµ,
Howard: It is Purdie - there's a reference of Gold -Expanded edition I believe - I have him in my list below...sure sounds like him anyway.
Marotta played on Don't Take Me Alive and maybe Everything You Did...
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 08:21:51
Posted by: Howard,
Dennis - I *think* the talk-box thing is just a myth. Couldn't swear to it, but I didn't have any problems with the one I made. The talk box FAQ (link posted previously) also mentions something about stories of talk boxes making fillings in your teeth go loose! But the FAQ author said he thought this was also a myth, and he sounds like he's used a lot of models of talk box without any problems.
The one danger he did mention was if you make your own talk box, it's possibe to damage your amp if you turn it up too much.
Green Earrings - it sure is a great groove, but I thought it was Bernard Purdie on drums?
Howard
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 02:31:13
Posted by: norm, rhythm sections
All this talk about guitarists got me thinking about rhythm sections. As great as they all were/are, I'd give the prize to Rick Marotta and Chuck Rainey for their work on Green Earrings and Peg. Those songs have grooves that just don't quit (fade-outs notwithstanding!).
Also Jeff Porcaro/Walter Becker for Gaucho (the song), and Steve Gadd/Chuck Rainey for Aja. But those other two...I mean, DANG!
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 01:49:37
Posted by: W1P,
Hmm. Frank Zappa, 10/19, Katy Lied? How'd you know that Mike Keneally is playing in SF on 10/19? Also my birthday
Date: Fri, October 11, 2002, 00:08:15
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Hoops,
I have the JVC XVSA75GD and that price is a super value, far less than it cost 10 months ago when I got it...but that's technology. At any rate - very highly recommended - I am very satisfied with the unit. DVD-As are spectacular on the XVSA75GD. Even CDs sound better than on my Sony CD changer.
Two Against Nature truly is a new experience on DVD-A as well. The drums especially have that wet, live sound when compared with the CD release...I expect great things from The Nightfly release. This release was especially re-mastered for DVD-A stereo and not necessarily the 5.1 funhouse. Only one warning: Programming using the remote and TV as a monitor for most DVD-As and DVD-Vs for your sound choice (stereo vs. 5.1). The good news, there are lots of goodies as Hoops outlined for The Nightfly...I am very pumped about the New Frontier video.
Date: Thurs, October 10, 2002, 16:52:33
Posted by: Doug, Fairbanks, AK
THE GAUCHO
(1928)
Douglas Fairbanks' The Gaucho is a curiosity: a traditional Fairbanks actioner with decidedly unsavory, unpleasant and uncharacteristic overtones. For the first time in his career, Fairbanks plays what would have been a villainous role in anyone else's film: An outlaw leader who exploits religion for his own nefarious purposes. As the unofficial leader of Miracle City, Fairbanks laughs aloud as the faithful flock to the shrine of the Madonna: he knows that, once they've left, he can claim the pitiful alms they've left behind. Eventually, however, Fairbanks experiences a religious conversion, thanks in part to the love of a good woman and in great part to a deus-ex-machina appearance by the Madonna Herself (portrayed, unbilled, by Fairbanks' wife Mary Pickford). A subplot involving leprosy and suicide adds to the overall discomforting tone of the film. Despite its lapses in taste, The Gaucho amassed a fortune for Fairbanks, who in 1928 could do no wrong at the box office. Lupe Velez makes her first major film appearance as a lusty mountain girl. ~ Hal Erickson, All Movie Guide
Date: Thurs, October 10, 2002, 12:45:24
Posted by: hoops,
The Rhino link is even more informational. This is great!
Date: Thurs, October 10, 2002, 12:07:04
Posted by: h, again
"Out";
THANK YOU! I geuss I was typing as you were posting. This is so great!
I tried to do some research on the JVC model I saw at J & R. Apparently, it is still made and debuted earlier with a suggested retail price of *$399*
So with this being such a deal for $129, I'm wondering, were the ones at J & R accidently dropped from a fork lift at the warehouse or something? What's the catch? I wonder if it's lacking a feature that will prevent me from playing the "New Frontier" video.
Call me paranoid (vs paranormal)
h
Date: Thurs, October 10, 2002, 12:01:40
Posted by: hoops, Woo-hoo!!!
Dreams come true! "New Frontier" video on the DVD-A, according to DVD-Audioworld:
http://www.d9store.com/Exec/item.asp?userid=31109353949707&item_id=452999
Photo
Coming
Soon
Price: $15.28
PRE-RELEASE
(ships when stock arrives)
Released in 1982, this was Donald Fagen's first release after Steely Dan disbanded, and marked a striking departure from his earlier work. The album eschewed Steely Dan's usual irony and sardonic distance in favor of autobiographical closeness--almost sentimental in places. The album was recorded with the painstaking attention to detail that had become a trademark of Steely Dan, and Donald used the same top session players to create a beautiful sound, and one of the best-produced records of the CD era. The album was an immediate critical success; it was nominated for seven Grammy Awards and went on to sell in excess of 1 million units.
Songs:
I.G.Y.Product Features:
Green Flower Street
Ruby Baby
Maxine
New Frontier
The Nightfly
The Goodbye Look
Walk Between Raindrops
Cast and Crew:
• "New Frontier" Music Video
• Personal Liner Notes by Donald Fagen
• On-Screen Lyrics and Images
Product Details:
Length: 0
Rating: NR
Release Date: 10/29/2002
Production Year: 1982
Studio: Warner Bros. - Audio
Studio Code: 78138DVA
Item No: 452999
Video:
Standard 1.33:1
* Fagen, Donald
Date: Thurs, October 10, 2002, 11:52:49
Posted by: Out,
http://www.rhino.com/new/QuickSearch.lasso?-database=RhinoMaster_remote&-layout=WDetail&-response=/search/Detail.html&-recordID=37437&-token.PartnerToken=&-search
If you look at the above link youi will see Hoops was either guessing correctly or had an inside tip from Rhino about the "new Frontier" video on The Nightfly's DVD Audio release!
Date: Thurs, October 10, 2002, 11:41:39
Posted by: Dave,
Thank you for the heads up. You are the Hoopsiest.
JandR also had this.
DVD-Audio - The year 2000 ushers in a new format for high-performance audio play - DVD-Audio. You've heard of using DVD for high-quality video playback. Now DVD is being used for audio. A DVD Disc holds much more information than the currently popular CD audio format. As such, DVD-Audio delivers sound well beyond what you've grown accustomed to hearing with CDs. With a sampling frequency of 192kHz (more than four times that of CD) overtones can be reproduced up to nearly 100,000Hz. You can get 24 Bit performance allowing for up to 16.7 million tonal variations compared with 65,000 variations on CDs. Signal/Noise ratios are much higher (over 110db), at least 10% more than CD, for greater clarity and more accurate reproductions. There is a catch. Because the performance output is greater than most receivers can handle, it will be beneficial to play DVD-Audio through an amplifier or receiver that has been designed for the wider dynamic range that DVD-Audio delivers
Date: Thurs, October 10, 2002, 11:38:31
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
Has anyone ever noticed how Fagen almost has a Frank Zappa-esque thing going on with his voice at times? I've noticed it on Rose Darling. 'I would guess she's in Detroit, with lots of money in the bank'. When he says 'money in the bank' it's got a great snarl to it almost like some things Frank used to do. Not comparing DF to FZ but there is probably an influence/mutual admiration. Check it out. Rose Darling has a great guitar solo too! Very expressive.
After a post summer break Katy Lied is back! We will be playing next weekend October 19th at Harry's of Arlington Heights, IL. Show starts at 10:00 pm. I think Ides of March (I'm your vehicle baby!) is playing outdoors in the early evening, I'll check that for sure though.
Howard: I have heard that when using a talk box through a very loud amp (i.e. Marshall 100 watt) can be dangerous if you close your mouth. At bedroom levels or low volumes it's probably not dangerous. I've never used a talk box myself so now I'm curious if it is true or just a myth.
Date: Thurs, October 10, 2002, 11:20:30
Posted by: hoops,
http://www.jandr.comAOL Keyword: J&R
Or, of course, Park Row, DT NYC.
Date: Thurs, October 10, 2002, 11:18:21
Posted by: hoops,
If you already have a surround system but don't have DVD-A capabilities, you might be interested that J & R Music World has a JVC DVD-V / DVD-A player for $129.99 Not high-end, but it would get your foot in the door for "The Nightfly" DVD-A
It's model JVC XVSA75GD; was $299.99 (Was that the price three years ago?) and has DVD-V, DVD-A, CD, CD-R & RW, VCD, MP3; progressive scan out, Dolby® Digital/DTS®®®®®™™™ 3-D phonic and, how could they forget, A REMOTE.
This all makes me wonder: Remember back in 1982 there was that CD-Video for "New Frontier" ? I own a copy. Now, I suspect this player isn't compatible. BUT: What if the upcoming DVD-A also included the "New Frontier" video? NOW THAT WOULD BE INSANELY COOL. And as a bonus, how about if the rumored "Kamakiriad" DVD-A also included the videos created for songs on that album. I've seem "Tomorrow's Girls" only once and that was by accident. I was in Target and they had it on the TV monitor suspended above the Audio/Video department. It was muted.
Then again, Fagen strikes me as not being fond of videos and is definitely all about the music, so maybe he'd rather forget these videos.
Pure speculation and fantasy on my part, save for the $129.99 JVC DVD-A player at J & R.
Date: Thurs, October 10, 2002, 07:20:20
Posted by: Howard,
Dr Mu - interesting feedback from Dean Parks. Good to get that one confirmed by someone in the know! I did some Google searching for a reference to it, but didn't find anything. I think it must have been one of the radio interviews where D+W talk about this. I have a distinct memory of them saying that Walter took a tape home of the solo, to learn it properly, so he could do the talk box stuff the next day.
Mr LePage - the pre-Dan demos had either Walter or Denny Dias on guitar I believe, depending on the song. DD is usually pretty easy to pick out - his fluid be-bop style was already in place in the early years.
Peg - I forgot to mention Green Earrings yesterday. It's a key question you raise about how you divide the solos - to make sure that when I say "first solo" everyone else has the same thing in mind. I break it up like this:
After the second chorus, there's an instrumental section with a key change and a melody line played on the guitar, using fairly long sustained notes. I don't really count this as a solo, it sounds like it was written material. Then you get a pause on a sustained chord, a short drum break, and the first guitar solo (Denny Dias) starts - smooth, fluid, bebop. After a repeat of the descending chords riff that first appears in the intro, the second solos starts (Elliot Randall), over the verse changes and using a much more agressive tone/style.
The outro solo sounds like it's also Elliot Randall.
Howard
Date: Wed, October 09, 2002, 21:06:11
Posted by: Peg, Back o' da class
This has been a great thread. Really helps me discern styles, sounds, etc., and learn how to listen better. Now, tell me again, though, please, exactly who did the solo on Green Earrings...I mean, who did it in what order? Was it Denny Dias first, then Elliot Randall, or the other way around? I am separating them (and assuming you all are) by the little drum bit in between.
Date: Wed, October 09, 2002, 20:14:48
Posted by: Mr. LePage (formerly known as John LeBaron),
This is great stuff! I would also like to know who does the guitar work on the pre-Dan stuff. Was it DD, JB, WB, or a combination? Didn't DD hitch up with DF and WB first, and then JB joined later? But don't let this question end this great discussion on the mid-70's solos!
JL
Date: Wed, October 09, 2002, 19:45:25
Posted by: jim,
John: Bassist Jay Leonhart is Michael and Carolyn's father.
That's *Frank* Catalano. He's a great alto player who has never appeared on a Steely Dan album. Young guy based in Chicago and has received a lot of local accolades. Most amazing of all, you would never know that one of his right hand fingers was severed and reattached, though that is never one of his selling points. (wink) His sound is kinda fuzzy. I wonder what Becker/Fagen would think of that.
j
Date: Wed, October 09, 2002, 18:40:03
Posted by: John, again
Who is this John Catalano player on Dandom Radio??? He's AMAZING! Which Steely Dan track(s) was he on. He's like a fuzzy Phil Woods.
Date: Wed, October 09, 2002, 18:33:00
Posted by: John, Erie, Penn.
Hi everyone
I'm listening to the Dandom radio station and there is a song on right now called "Me and Lenny." It's performed by Jay Leonhart. Is this any relation to Carolyn and Michael? The song is about him serendipitously being seated next to Leonard Bernstein on a flight from New York to L.A. It's kinda like a novelty tune.
The posts here are magnificently facinating. What a great read!
John
Now I.G.Y. is on. What a beautiful world this will be.
Date: Wed, October 09, 2002, 11:57:32
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Howard: Thanks for your thought. This discussion is helping me put together song by song credits for KL...don't wait up to long though...
I received a very nice e-mail this morning from Amanda Parks, daughter of Dean Parks. She verified Howard's talk box tale:
"...from my Dad 'Solo on Haitian Divorce: I was asked to play the solo on overdub. Walter knew he wanted a talkbox sound, and gave me the option of either doing the talkbox device simultaneously, or just recording a solo and have Walter talkbox it later, which is what I chose.' "
Amanda also asked me to remind our friends in the guestbooks that her website will be updated soon. There will be "LOTS of never-before-seen photos from the tour and a cosmetic update..." We can only hope that Amanda will be back on the road again with the next tour...next year????
Here's the URL:
Date: Wed, October 09, 2002, 09:02:41
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA
In reference to my post wherein I said "one should listen for the (guitar) phrasing right before the piano coda on 'Throw Back the Little Ones' for an indicator of Elliot Randall's work..." I was in error, as the solo is not "right before" the piano coda, but before the repeated intro in the middle-
Randy/NIGHTFLY62@aol.com
Date: Wed, October 09, 2002, 08:06:56
Posted by: Howard,
I'm not always sure enough to pick out which guitar player is soloing on a particular SD track with confidence, but after reading recent posts and doing some listening here are a few thoughts:
on "Throw Back The Little Ones" the solo sounds rather more like Elliot Randall than Larry Carlton. Much more aggressive tone, and that choppy/percussive stuff from 1:53 to 1:59 is much more his thing than Carlton's.
(BTW I can't hear much of a guitar break immediately before the piano coda - all I hear is a couple of quiet guitar licks low down in the mix)
On "Daddy Don't Live..." I'm not so sure. First thing to figure out is whether the person who plays the right channel guitar part throughout is the same one that plays the solos or not. The panning and tone are the same, and in the outro the basic riff that's played throughout the verses is alternated with bits of lead, so I think it's the same person throughout. That leaves a central, mostly chord based guitar part (probably Carlton) and a left-channel guitar part that plays mostly low-pitched single note riffs, sometimes doubling the bass part (not sure who plays this part though!).
The right-channel part that has the solos doesn't sound like Walter to me. The riffs that are played throughout the verse are certainly not his style, and if it IS the same player on the solos (as seems likely), this counts him out. Also, the bits of lead played in the outtro don't sound a lot like him. It also doesn't sound a lot like Randall, so maybe it's someone else entirely?
As for Greek Black Cows etc, the letter "µ" is actually pronounced (in Greece) the same way we pronounce "me". It's only the bastardised UK/US pronunciation that has it the same as "mu".
Howard
P.S All you ever wanted to know about the talk-box but were afraid to ask is at: http://www.olywa.net/blame/talkbox.htm
Date: Wed, October 09, 2002, 02:08:33
Posted by: W1P, Show Me The Way to the Next Whisky Bar
Hey folks even mildy interested in Which One's Pink? We have available tickets to a very special show coming up on Sunday, November 3, 2002 at the Whisky A Go Go in Hollywood.
Here's the deal. The Rolling Stones are coming to Los Angeles for shows on 10/31, 11/2 and 11/4, With Stones off on 11/3, Sticky Fingers, LA's outstanding Stones tribute band, has set up a blockbuster Whisky show to attract all of the hard core Stones (and Floyd) fans who will be in LA for the series of Stones shows. Sticky Fingers' website http://www.stickyfingerslive.com/whiskey.htm says that their set will feature "special guests" We do not know who these "special guests" will be. But, it is fun to speculate (the Stones are in town, they will probably be staying at the Bel Age across the street from the Whisky, its their night off AND the Whisky is a legendary venue) as to who might show up!
This gig will also be very special for W1P because, among other reasons, it will feature an appearance by Marvette Williams (of Lion King fame) -- some of you may remember that her debut with Which One's Pink? was at our only previous show at the Whisky in June 1999.
If you are interested in advance, discount tickets, please send me an e-mail at wch1ispink@aol.com Hope to see you on Sunday, November 3!
Date: Wed, October 09, 2002, 00:23:10
Posted by: DrMµ,
Randy: Howard would be mortified, but yes, Daddy leans Walter's way as did Jack of Speed and I would agree he does at least some of the solo on Daddy...I have heard some thoughts about Randall contributing...
No, Randy, I may not be a musicologist, it's just a hobby, but I do a bit of research as a prime part of my day gig...
A major concern with the Sweet book, as I understand it, is the most fundamental of all errors for researchers: he does not have the critical PRIMARY references. In other words, he, to my knowledge, never interviewed Walter or Donald, not did he receive their permission to proceed. Perhaps he talked to a few sidemen and we know they ALWAYS tell the truth (just ask Ringo) ;-) If this conclusion is in error, please let me know. In fact, wasn't much of the "data" collected under the umbrella of the very first years of "Metal Leg?" Since I do not know Mr. Sweet and was not a recipient of early ML (nor was I even aware), this information may be in error. While I cannot speak for the motivation and research process, if the above is correct, it certainly gives the appearance of "gravytraining."
To be honest, the first part of the Green Earrings solo does not sound like typical Randall at all. IMO, it more resembles Parks...
I would like to hear from others to arrive at a concensus on unraveling the baffling muscician credits of Dan: the Middle-Earth Years...
It does bring up the topic on Walter's range - in what he put down himself: Black Friday, Bad Sneakers, Monkey in Your Soul, Pretzel Logic (he leans towards a Carlton sound here), Home At Last, Josie, Snowbound, to West of Hollywood...
...and just as importantly what he got out of others on guitar and maybe to a lesser extent bass. Carlton has some fine albums along the way (ex. Sleepwalk's not bad at all), but his performances never match the fire and brilliance of Kid C and Don't Take Me Alive. Dias' tone on YGTII and Bodhisattva couldn't be much different, though bop rules in each case. Notice how Dias seems to be an extension of Walter's mind on Aja. Walter does the middle section while Dias' long run's bookmark those classic runs...
My jaw was on the floor earlier as I couldn't help but focus on Rainey's fretless (I think) bass on SiS and Green Earrings...absolutely jawdropping stuff...
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 23:04:51
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA
DrMµ:
Brian Sweet's book 'Steely Dan: Reeling In The Years' (1994) is much maligned for all the wrong reasons; most people don't consider the amount of research necessary to complete such a project; while I think largely Sweet is criticized for his own opinion and lyrical analysis, he should not be slighted for his musician credits, for there are very few errors in this regard; I've been doing music research in general for twenty-some-odd years (I'm a professional musician as well as a freelance music journalist/historian) and I can tell you from personal experience that there really isn't that much out there in regards to Steely Dan in terms of articles and information (comparatively speaking). Sweet did a great job of pulling all his info together concisely; I have what amounts to a nearly photographic memory for information as well as sound, and Sweet rightfully credits Denny Dias (the middle solo) and Elliot Randall (the intro and the outro "bubbling" solo) for the solos on "Green Earrings" (from 'The Royal Scam' [1976]), as well as the solos and soloists mentioned in my previous post, which is (obviously) not always an easy task.
You clearly have listened very closely, but I've discussed this with others before and it's not a completely uncommon mistake. In another case in particular, someone claimed I was wrong in crediting Denny Dias for the guitar solo in "Your Gold Teeth II," with the other party claiming it was "obviously" Larry Carlton; after comparing the solos in "Bodhisattva," "Your Gold Teeth (I)," and the alternating solos Dias plays with Becker on "Aja" to "Your Gold Teeth II," he was finally convinced. The same party was also sure of Jeff Baxter's solo in "Pretzel Logic" (which was played by Becker).
In "Daddy Don't Live In That New York City No More" there are three guitar parts: the prominent lead at the intro and middle solo (at 1:49 or so into the song), the standard rhythm chords, and the "riffing" type leads played through the verse; the intro solo and middle solos are actually played by Walter Becker - listen to the runs in the middle solo; typical Becker-type phrases (he also sang it in concert in 2000 which is not an unrelated issue - Fagen now has the option of suggesting to Walter that if he wants to do it, he can sing it); the "standard rhythm" part is what was played by Carlton; after having met him they invited him to play on what was one of the last tracking sessions done for the album; the riffing is likely to be Hugh McCracken (though THAT I'm not sure of).
As for "Throw Back the Little Ones," listen again to the phrases in the guitar solo; at somewhere around 1:35 into the track there's a sort of repeated arpeggiated run that is very typical of Elliot Randall (which is not to suggest there is anything predictable about his playing); at 1:53 or so near the end of the solo, there's a gliss or a slide (choose your favorite terminology) - definitely more akin to Randall's style than Carlton's.
The reason I mentioned the Downbeat article in which Fagen specifically credits Dean Parks with the solo in "Rose Darling," is because THAT'S the solo that is frequently argued about (no slight intended, but there isn't usually disagreement on Randall's "Throw Back The Little Ones" solo).
If I come across anything more specific, I'll post it.
Randy
NIGHTFLY62@aol.com
P.S. For you guitar freaks out there, check out Stephen Stills' first solo album ('Stephen Stills,' 1970) for the little-known lead guitar work done on the song "Old Times, Good Times" by Stills' friend James Marshall Hendrix - truly staggering (as Stills can be as well)-
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 22:42:19
Posted by: oleander, see what you done done
Sup'--'sup? "Down Along The Cove"?? What an incredible assortment.
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 21:21:32
Posted by: DrMµ,
Randy: I am always willing to give another listen or two (twist my arm!!!). I would definitely take a Downbeat article over Sweet. It seems certain that Randall plays lead on Daddy Don;t live in That New York City No More - very "crunchy" stuff like Reelin'...that could take care of the Katy ref...The closest thing that Randall did on a Dan album that might sound like TBTLO are some licks on the Sign in Stranger track...
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 21:19:33
Posted by: h,
Amazing threads!
h
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 21:01:13
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA
Some of the work I do as a "day job" includes working at a large library on occasion in the Music & Media department, answering questions on music history, specifically jazz, blues and rock. As for a specific source, I poured through a database of magazine articles, unearthing the September 1975 issue of 'Downbeat' which has a well-known article on Steely Dan; while Donald is quoted saying that it was Dean Parks who played the solo on "Rose Darling," this was not the same article that proceeded to notate the remaining soloists on all tracks, aside from "Black Friday," "Bad Sneakers" (Becker), and "Your Gold Teeth II" (Dias).
To be honest, I'm not sure of the specific source as I have been studying/documenting Steely Dan for the last twenty-one years, much as Brian Sweet did for his book; while Sweet's book does have it's share of errors, one thing he did get right was the soloists on 'Katy Lied,' which are correctly notated, with Elliot Randall credited with "Throw Back the Little Ones," and Carlton playing only rhythm guitar on "Daddy Don't Live In That New York City No More."
Part of the reason Carlton was used so extensively on 'The Royal Scam' is because he only met Becker and Fagen at the tail end of the 'Katy Lied' sessions, thus they didn't get the opportunity to use him all that much (he was working extensively with the Crusaders at this point).
Aside from all that, I think the case by one "DrMµ, Tejas" is slightly overstated; I see what you're saying, and you give a good, descriptive and clearly well-thought-out argument, but to these ears and those of many other asute Steely Dan affectionados (as well as well-versed musicians), I think it's fairly clear aurally speaking if one listens to the guitar break immediately before the piano coda in "Throw Back the Little Ones" that it's Elliot Randall playing the guitar; it sounds considerably like the phrasing in "Reeling In The Years" and that of "Green Earrings" as was mentioned; the spiralling leads and "presence" of the actual guitar strings are far and away closer to Randall than Carlton; Carlton's approach is somewhat more "studied" (which is not a negative attribute); in addition, Randall is credited on 'Katy Lied' and there is not another solo on the record that sounds anything like him.
If I do come across the specific source found by Sweet and myself, I'll let you know, but for the moment, I've got my own songs to work on-
Randy/NIGHTFLY62@aol.com
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 18:03:30
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Randy: I'm sorry, but I most humbly must disagree with your assessment of the guitar solo on Throw Back the Little Ones. Do you have a source for your information?
Here's my argument. Listen to the guitar at about 2:17 of the Fez (player A) and then 1:32 of Throw Back the Little Ones. Sounds like the same guy. In contrast, listen to the 3rd part of the guitar solo on Green Earrings (Player B), it sounds different to me. Player A = Carlton; Player B = Randall
I picked Green Earrings because it is more of a contemporary recording with TBTLO than Reelin'
The only way that I can describe it is that when Randall plays the guitar
(a) you can hear the effect of the pick
and more characteristically
(b) when he extends a noete there is a more limited "resonance envelope" than Carlton who has the widest I've ever heard. Resonance being vibrations at characteristic frequencies above and below the actual note. Step on the right pedal (loud pedal) of a piano. Strike a note - see what I mean...then without - the hammer 'dampens" the sound and limits resonance.
In other words when Carlton strikes a C# for example, there would be more C# octaves above and below (the resonances). Imagine a hump that represents the central frequency and progressively smaller humps at the resonances above and below the central frequency - Carlton has "more humps"
What I mean is that there is a very "open" sound to Carlton's notes with or without distortion, whereas Randall's are more constrained to my ear...
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 14:54:12
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA
P.S. To the post below:
The talk-box/Dean Parks reference below refers to "Haitian Divorce," from 'The Royal Scam' (1976).
Randy/NIGHTFLY62@aol.com
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 14:53:58
Posted by: Paul Maclauchlan, Toronto
My hats off in respect to all of the great, music-oriented posts these past few days. I am truly awed.
I'm not a musician, so I can't contribute except by reading. But in a tip of the hat to Hoops and his efforts to support InterNet Radio, I offer the following news items from The Onion newspaper. Hopefully musicians and non-musicians alike will find it as funny as I did.
RIAA SUES RADIO STATIONS FOR GIVING AWAY FREE MUSIC
LOS ANGELES—The Recording Industry Association of America filed a $7.1 billion lawsuit against the nation's radio stations Monday, accusing them of freely distributing copyrighted music.
"It's criminal," RIAA president Hilary Rosen said. "Anyone at any time can simply turn on a radio and hear a copyrighted song. Making matters worse, these radio stations often play the best, catchiest song off the album over and over until people get sick of it. Where is the incentive for people to go out and buy the album?"
According to Rosen, the radio stations acquire copies of RIAA artists' CDs and then broadcast them using a special transmitter, making it possible for anyone with a compatible radio-wave receiver to listen to the songs.
"These radio stations are extremely popular," Rosen said. "They flagrantly string our songs together in 'uninterrupted music blocks' of up to 70 minutes in length, broadcasting nearly one CD's worth of product without a break, and they actually have the gall to allow businesses to advertise between songs. It's bad enough that they're giving away our music for free, but they're actually making a profit off this scheme."
RIAA attorney Russell Frackman said the lawsuit is intended to protect the artists.
"If this radio trend continues, it will severely damage a musician's ability to earn a living off his music," Frackman said. "[Metallica drummer] Lars Ulrich stopped in the other day wondering why his last royalty check was so small, and I didn't know what to say. How do you tell a man who's devoted his whole life to his music that someone is able to just give it away for free? That pirates are taking away his right to support himself with his craft?"
For the record companies and the RIAA, one of the most disturbing aspects of the radio-station broadcasts is that anyone with a receiver and an analog tape recorder can record the music and play it back at will.
"I've heard reports that children as young as 8 tape radio broadcasts for their own personal use," Rosen said. "They listen to a channel that has a limited rotation of only the most popular songs—commonly called 'Top 40' stations—then hit the 'record' button when they hear the opening strains of the song they want. And how much are they paying for these songs? A big fat zip."
Continued Rosen: "According to our research, there is one of these Top 40 stations in every major city in the country. This has to be stopped before the music industry's entire economic infrastructure collapses."
Especially distressing to the RIAA are radio stations' "all-request hours," when listeners call in to ask radio announcers, or "disc jockeys," to play a certain song.
"What's the point of putting out a new Ja Rule or Sum 41 album if people can just call up and hear any song off the album that they want?" Frackman asked. "In some instances, these stations actually have the nerve to let the caller 'dedicate' his act of thievery to a friend or lover. Could you imagine a bank letting somebody rob its vaults and then allowing the thief to thank his girlfriend Tricia and the whole gang down at Bumpy's?"
Defenders of radio-based music distribution insist that the relatively poor sound quality of radio broadcasts negates the record companies' charges.
"Radio doesn't have the same sound quality as a CD," said Paul "Cubby" Bryant, music director of New York radio station Z100, one of the nation's largest distributors of free music and a defendant in the suit. "Real music lovers will still buy CDs. If anything, we're exposing people to music they might not otherwise hear. These record companies should be thanking us, not suing us."
Outraged by the RIAA suit, many radio listeners are threatening to boycott the record companies.
"All these companies care about is profits," said Amy Legrand, 21, an avid Jacksonville, FL, radio user who surreptitiously records up to 10 songs a day off the radio. "Top 40 radio is taking the power out of the hands of the Ahmet Erteguns of the world and bringing it back to the people of Clear Channel and Infinity Broadcasting. It's about time somebody finally stood up to those record-company fascists."
The original web address is http://www.theonion.com/onion3836/riaa_sues_radio_stations.html
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 14:50:29
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA
Steely-folk:
As has been noted by me on both this guestbook and the 'Sign In Stranger' guestbook, Larry Carlton was a late arrival to the 1975 'Katy Lied' sessions; he has been wrongly credited numerous times with having played the solos on "Your Gold Teeth II" (which was played by Denny Dias), and the guitar solo on "Throw Back the Little Ones" (which was played by Elliot Randall). Carlton's sole contribution to the 'Katy Lied' sessions was adding the rhythm guitar part to "Daddy Don't Live In That New York City No More."
Stylistically, one should listen for the (guitar) phrasing right before the piano coda on "Throw Back the Little Ones" for an indicator of Elliot Randall's work; it is very similar to his approach on "Reeling In The Years" in terms of timing, distortion and overall feel. The occasional miscredit also occurs with "Chain Lightning," which had lead guitar work from Rick Derringer.
In addition, the post which noted that Dean Parks' guitar sound was originally recorded dry with the talk-box effect added later by Walter Becker is also accurate.
"No fooling it's a fucked up world..." - Walter Becker, "Junkie Girl"
Randy/NIGHTFLY62@aol.com
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 13:12:21
Posted by: Byoo T., µµµµµµµµ
Ďn the corner of my eye
I saw µ at Rudy's
µ was very high
From BLACK GREEK COW
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 13:04:56
Posted by: µ r so Byoo T. Full, funked up µzik
µ--
Isn't it redundant to spell your name Mµ? Isn't µ suffiecient? Just checking. Then again I guess µ can spell his name how ever the fµck µ wants. Just learning my way around ths how Greek alphabet thing.
Byoo T.
P.S. Q: How does a Greek Cow moo?
A: µ-------- µ----------
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 12:58:19
Posted by: Idly Ida Lee,
I went to the page. Isn't that Paul Shaffer on top of her? Get him off.
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 12:52:13
Posted by: Icantfunction1,
Hey-
Check out the picture of Rikki Canelstein
at http://www.iam2339h.org/reps/reps.htm
If I had to pick between her and Libby,
I'd choose Rikki.
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 11:56:41
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Howard: Wow! That's a great story...rates then as one of the best "blow jobs" ever...
Date: Tues, October 08, 2002, 07:43:24
Posted by: Howard,
Dr Mu - it's definitely triangle that Feldman plays on Green Earrings (as well as tambourine).
As for the talk box guitar on H.Divorce - I'm almost positive that the solo was recorded "straight", i.e without talk box. D+W then had the idea of adding the talk box effect, so Walter learned the solo so that he could mime the appropriate mouth stuff. Walter actually did the talk box "mouthing", but they were feeding the solo (by Dean Parks I think) through from tape and recording the processed output to a new track. I'm sure I've heard or read Walter discussing this...
As others have said, the talk box effect is kind of similar to a wah-wah, but you get more interesting and extreme filtering effects with a talk box. A wah-wah filters the guitar signal with a bandpass filter - so you only get output over a narrow range of frequencies, and as you sweep the filter frequency around you get the "wah" effect. With a talk box, you use your mouth and vocal cavity to do the filtering, and there are many resonances in there that will affect the signal - a bit like having several bandpass filters working together. You can get a much wider range of sounds with the talk box.
Dennis - I don't think there's a problem if you close your mouth when using a talk box. The difficult part I found when using my home-made talk box was to keep breathing noises to a bare minimum! You need to have the mic very close to your mouth to get a good signal, but that means you have to keep still and breath very quietly!
Roy.Scam - if there were 5 singers on a live "Reelin", the chances are some of them were just doubling up on the same part. Of course, they don't have to reproduce the same parts as the studio version, but if they did they probably had two people on the same line to thicken it a little.
Also, the harmony vocals on the original version change on the chorus repeat. After that brief pause in the middle of the chorus, you get a 4th vocal part when the "Are you reelin' in the years..." stuff is repeated. I've always liked that 4th part!
Howard
Date: Mon, October 07, 2002, 20:45:57
Posted by: Mr.Sticks,
Hello SFB fans!
We would like to announce that we have a new web address.
You can now find The Steely Fan Band at
http://www.steelyfanband.net
Please have a visit soon!
Our next public performance will be on Friday Night October 25,2002 at 8:30pm
Please join us for our annual Steely Fan Band HALLOWEEN PARTY !!
Come on down to the Studio Cafe and get spooky with us as we debut a new show with NEW STEELY DAN MUSIC that will be sure to please!
Admission is free..dress up and have some fun!
Mr.Sticks
Date: Mon, October 07, 2002, 17:39:08
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Roy: I need to add the tambourine in the outtro on SiS to Feldman's credits as well...
Date: Mon, October 07, 2002, 15:19:40
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Earl, Dennis - yes, that's a talk box - just a careless oversight on my part. Roger Nichols built the box and it was similar to Frampton's...
As to who played the talk box??...I've seen stories that it was Parks, Wlater, or Dias. The following would provide some support for Parks, but unfortunately they also contributed the Don't Take Me Alive guitar to Parks, while that one is OBVIOUSLY Carlton...thus do not be forced to share MY hallucination...will try to research further and give a few more listens...
http://www.guitar.com/features/viewfeature.asp?featureID=88
Roy: I'm always happy to share my hallcinations...
"What type of percussion did you attribute to Victor Feldman? (mallets, blocks, bells, drums?)"
There may be more - and I'm assuming credit
The Fez:
Percussion: Victor Feldman
syncopated maracas - left channel
Green Earrings
Percussion: Victor Feldman
tambourine - right channel
triangle/?bells? - middle - maybe right middle... When chrous Green Earrings starts
maracas - left middle during guitar solo
Haitian Divorce:
Percussion: Victor Feldman
Whatever I heard here - darn sure escapes me at the moment - I'd like ot add blocks to the right channel...maybe a home bop a long...
Royal Scam:
Percussion: Victor Feldman
Now here are the *blocks* right channel at the intro
tambourine - right channel
"Did Walter do no backup vocals on any of those songs?"
Walter did some back-up vocals on Can't Buy a Thrill, most prominently turn That Heartbeat Over Again...ex. "this highway runs from Paraguay
One more question: I have an old clip of the original SD performing "Reeling in the Years" live. I appeared that there were five of them singing harmony on the chorus. I don't hear that many voices on the record. Were the extra vocals just an accomodation for performing before crowd....probably so - bet some mikes were turned off too (like Skunk's)
Date: Mon, October 07, 2002, 13:03:48
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
A talk box is nothing like a wah wah in a mechanical sense as a wah manipulates the frequency range by sweeping from low to high frequencies using a pedal.
A talk box is just like a speaker. The sound comes through a tube that you place in your mouth. The tube is mounted next to your microphone. When the guitar sound comes through the tube you move your mouth to manipulate the sound (you can say words ala frampton ('doooo yoooo feeeel') or just move your mouth however you want to shape the sound. The microphone picks this up and sends it out to the PA system, recording console etc. You don't ever want to close your mouth when using a talk box because the sound pressure will make your head explode! A couple of the first guys to use "The Bag" are Jeff Beck and Joe Walsh, I think Walsh actually gave Beck his first.
Date: Mon, October 07, 2002, 09:23:59
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Richie Sambora, not Sanbora. :)
Earl
Date: Mon, October 07, 2002, 09:22:23
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
In reference to Haitian Divorce, it's not a wah, it's a talkbox. It has a wah-like effect, but is more dramatic in my opinion. It's most well-known use was by Peter Frampton on "Do You Feel Like I Do?" and was also used more recently by Richie Sanbora on that Bon Jovi song "It's My Life." I believe on HD it is WB playing the solo parts (I remember seeing an article about it somewhere).
Earl
Date: Mon, October 07, 2002, 08:47:06
Posted by: Roy.Scam, elephants and cavalry?
Doc Mu~ Excellent job on the reverse engineering task of determining Steely Dan inputs. I had a few questions, if I may (even though I know you're a person who's hesitant to share your knowledge):
What type of percussion did you attribute to Victor Feldman? (mallets, blocks, bells, drums?)
Did Walter do no backup vocals on any of those songs?
I thought I'd heard somewhere that Walter had done the wah guitar on "Haitian Divorce. That's not a question is it? Okay, the question is, 'was that a post-operation pain-pill induced hallucination on my part?'
One more question: I have an old clip of the original SD performing "Reeling in the Years" live. I appeared that there were five of them singing harmony on the chorus. I don't hear that many voices on the record. Were the extra vocals just an accomodation for performing before crowd.
On the Jeff Baxter discussion: My opinion is that, if Skunk had still been with the group, Two Against Nature would have been a better album. Not that he's better than Becker or Herington, he just would add something that I miss.
Date: Sun, October 06, 2002, 22:55:02
Posted by: µ - sorry,
elegance & clarity
Date: Sun, October 06, 2002, 22:54:05
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Kelly/Mike: Where do I get one?
Great discussion on Katy and solo projects. Personally, Katy Lied and The Nightfly are my 2 favorite recordings of the Dan/solo discography. Nightfly just has an elehance and chord slut sophistication and visual calrity in the lyrics that are compelling. Fagen's voice on this one Gaucho and Ture companion are at his peak. When he doubles or triples the voice - man, it's tight.
Can't wait for the DVD-A for both the Nightfly at the end of October and Kama sometime later. It's weird that with a DDD recording that the vinyl version for Nightfly is livelier than the CD mastered version, but then considering how MC (the Company formerly Known as ABC-Dunhill) f***ed up the first "mastering" of Dan discography for CDs. I really believe that since most "rock critics" and much of the publice never heard least the '93 masters (and of course the great '99 re- re master)...this cost Dan some respect (not that they care). Those CDs sound very flat and 2-dimensional.
John: Here's how I hear the Katy solos - I think we're close
Black Friday - Walter, of course
Bad Sneakers - yep, more Walter
Rose Darling - I'm pretty certain that's Dean Parks
Daddy Don't Live in That New York City No More - Elliott Randall
Your Gold Teeth II - Denny Dias - Holy f**k, that's great
Chain Lightning - Rick Derringer
Throw Back the Little Ones - Larry Carlton - there's some contention that this is Randall, but I listened to it a couple of times last week, and there's no doubt in my mind that the sound is from the same 335 as Third World Man...
There is no OFFICIAL listing of the players on Royal Scam, but this is my best guess (an update with some changes from an earlier post on the Yellow). I'm not 100% certain at all about the accuracy, and any suggestions would be much appreciated. I'll be working on Katy and Pretzel in the coming months or years or until the Next One...
THE ROYAL SCAM
Kid Charlemagne:
Drums: Bernard “Pretty” Purdie
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitar: Larry Carlton
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Clavinet: Paul Griffin
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald, Venetta Fields, Clydie King, Sherlie Matthews
Caves of Altamira:
Drums: Bernard Purdie
Bass: Walter Becker
Piano: Donald Fagen
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Trumpet: Chuck Findley, Bob Findley
Trombone: Slyde Hyde
Sax: Plas Johnson, Jim Horn
Solo Sax: John Klemmer
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen, Timothy B. Schmit
Don’t Take Me Alive:
Drums: Rick Marotta
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitars: Larry Carlton (solo)
Dean Parks (rhythm)
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen, Timothy B. Schmit
Sign in Stranger:
Drums: Bernard Purdie
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitars: Elliot Randall, Walter Becker, Denny Dias (outtro)
Piano: Don Grolnick
Trumpet: Chuck Findley, Bob Findley
Trombone: Slyde Hyde
Sax: Plas Johnson
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen, Timothy B. Schmit
The Fez:
Drums: Bernard Purdie
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitar: Larry Carlton
Piano: Victor Feldman
Organ: Paul Griffin
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Trumpet: Chuck Findley, Bob Findley
Trombone: Slyde Hyde
Sax: Plas Johnson
Percussion: Victor Feldman
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen, Timothy B. Schmit, Michael McDonald
Green Earrings:
Drums: Bernard Purdie
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitars: Elliott Randall - left channel
Larry Carlton - right channel
Guitar solo: Dean Parks - 1st Section
Denny Dias - 2nd section
Elliott Randall - 3rd section
Clavinet: Paul Griffin
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Percussion: Victor Feldman
Backup Vocals: Donald Fagen, Tim Schmit
Haitian Divorce:
Drums: Bernard Purdie
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitars: Dean Parks (wah-wah)
Larry Carlton (rhythm)
Piano: Donald Fagen
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Percussion: Victor Feldman
Sax: Jim Horn, Plas Johnson
Backup Vocals: Venetta Fields, Clydie King, Sherlie Matthews
Everything You Did:
Drums: Rick Marotta
Bass: Walter Backer
Guitars: Larry Carlton (solo), Walter Becker (left channel)
Piano: Donald Fagen
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Organ: Paul Griffin
Backup Vocals: Donald Fagen, Timothy B. Schmit, Michael McDonald
Royal Scam:
Drums: Bernard Purdie
Bass: Walter Becker
Guitar: Larry Carlton
Piano: Donald Fagen
Organ: Paul Griffin
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Percussion: Victor Feldman
Dueling muted trumpets: Check Findley, Bob Findley
Trombone: Slyde Hyde
Sax: Jim Horn, Plas Johnson
Backup Vocals: Venetta Fields, Clydie King, Sherlie Matthews
Date: Sun, October 06, 2002, 14:48:18
Posted by: hoops, chicago
Hard to believe that a week has flown by since I saw Marian McPartland Trio at Jazz Showcase.
Marian was simply amazing and just like she is on her radio show on NPR, "Piano Jazz." ( http://www.pianojazz.org )
Each song of both sets was preceded by one of her anecdotes or stories which always added another dimension to the performance. One of the highlights of the first set was her version of "In a Sentimental Mood." I've been aware of this composition since childhood, but it wasn't until I experienced the version by John Coltrane and Duke Ellington that I fell in love with it. Well, Marian, a tremendous interpreter of the ballad, did a great rendition herself, one that still stays in my mind. Amazing since I love the Coltrane/Ellington '62 version so much.
She also performed a selection by Ornette Coleman. Admittedly, I have never thought of Marian performing Ornette. She made a comment about Ornette's "crazy" sound. But she must have really been into Ornette, because during the second set, she did another one of his tunes.
During one of the more energetic songs, during a drum solo, someone in the audience shouted out one of those "yeah" shouts. I think you know what I am talking about. Well, after that track, Marian introduced a ballad and said that it wasn't a song to scream to "yeah" during. Well, a few more songs later, someone shouts out "yeah" again. Well, she immediately joked in reply, "No."
In short, it was a really great show. Marian always reminds me of the late Maggi McCoy, "La Grande Dame de Dandom." Between sets, she walked to the back to sign CDs and walked past me at my usual perch at the bar. As she walked by me, I thought, "wow, what an amazing lady. She must be in her 70s and it's amazing how she can play and play and be so sharp. And not only is she a technically gifted player, her wit is not unlike Donald and Walter's, very sharp, although never too sharp or at others' expense. Indeed, she is a grande dame.
I mention all this because if she is ever performing in your area, or if you can get "Piano Jazz" on the radio in your area, I hope you will give her a listen.
-----
I was hoping to make Friday night to catch Chris Potter Quartet as well as a couple of people from the Chicago Danfest list; alas I could not, not feeling much better, I thought I had to catch him last night or I would miss his entire stand at Jazz Showcase. (In case you are reading this in Chicago today, he still has three more sets left—Today only at 4 pm (matinée with children of a certain age admitted for free with an adult), 8 pm and 10 pm (sets usually start 30 minuted late).
I know there are some Chris Potter live CDs out there but I have never heard them, although I have heard him live in the context of Steely Dan. That said, Chris is amazing live, and you have to see him live to fully appreciate his playing.
During the set, he played clarinet as well as sax and it was never a dull moment. Most all of the compositions were new to me. He even introduced one as brand new but it sure wasn't on his latest CD. Speaking of his latest CD, I was thinking he might include some electronic instruments or samples in the set. However, it was strictly all acoustic. While I can't remember nor do I know the names of the tracks, it was really a great show. And the writer in "Chicago Reader" nailed it when he said Potter is following in the footsteps of Coltrane and Brecker while remaining uniquely himself. I can't at all say "he sounded like Coltrane here" or "he plays like..." Chris plays like no one else.
Chris has a web site at http://www.chrispottermusic.com and it lists dates this week in Indy, St. Paul, and Atlanta. Then he heads off to Europe through early December before returning to the Village Vanguard Dec 10-15.
Also, be sure to check out his new album.
h
Date: Sun, October 06, 2002, 14:18:43
Posted by: Mike, Louisville, KY
Souvoneir - uuhhh, right. You know what I mean.
El Sup
:-)
Date: Sun, October 06, 2002, 13:31:25
Posted by: Mike, Louisville, KY
Kelly - Awesome? I wish. All of the tracks are audience recorded and the majority were from analog sources. The reason I chose these were because they were not readily available on the soundboard shows floating around. Some were played only once (Springtime, Almost Gothic), some no more than 4 or 5 times (Trans-Island Skyway, Girlfriend, Our Lawn, Cringemaker) and one never played in the United States (The Steely Dan Show). Awesome? I wish. But rare and fun.
A previous post brought up unreleased material and that happens to fit with an old top 5 list I had on my site:
Top Five Steely Lies:
5) "I'm not wearing a watch" - Various locations on all tours [Maybe not, but show me someone whose concert didn't end no more than 2 songs after that was said.]
4) "See you next year!" - Two Against Nature Tour 2000 [This one is getting bigger every day]
3) "This one is from my new album which will be released in a couple of weeks" - All New Steely Dan Orchestra Tour 1993 [Becker admitted this one the next year]
2) "See you next year!" - Art Crimes Tour 1996 [At that yearly rate, there was only a 5 year gap between Gaucho and Two Against Nature.]
And the biggest lie?
1) "One realizes that the addition of outtakes, demos, remixes and so on can enhance a collection of frequently repackaged product. In our case, though, the shelf is pretty much empty." - Citizen Steely Dan Box Set [I've got one word for that - Dallas, Sail the Waterway, Kulee Baba, The Second Arrangement, Mr. Sam, Mobile Home, Heartache Souvoneir, I Got the Bear, Kind Spirit, Talkin' Bout My Home, I Can't Write Home About You and One Ticket to L.A.]
But who am I to point out the emperor wears no clothes. I love ‘em either way.
El Sup
Date: Sun, October 06, 2002, 06:39:28
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, Chi
Mike/Sup -- That disc sounds fucking amazing, I haven't heard any of those...
Date: Sat, October 05, 2002, 19:11:52
Posted by: Sean, Quincy, MA
CC Rider? I had forgotten about that. I remember reading that in the Sweet book.
I think the back up vocalist women sang on My Boyfriend's back. I gathered it was really kitsched up. Then again, they were opening for Shanana and Elton John and KeeKee Dee then weren't they?
I bet there is a ton of unreleased stuff. Look at 1968-1972. There's all that stuff and that's only out because of some weird copyright rules, right? I bet they have dozens of incomplete tracks and demos since 1972 in their vaults. Or maybe they have lost or destroyed all of it. Maybe they accidently dissed the infamously missing Black Cow master in the process. Regardless, I guess they don't want any of it out there or it would be in a box set. I'm also glad they don't tack bonus tracks on to the end of the reissues. The album stands as it did then. All quality.
Be Cool now.
Sean
Date: Sat, October 05, 2002, 16:32:37
Posted by: shark deville, southbound
Wow, I'd love to hear that "CC Rider"...
The live version of "Ruby Baby" is great.
Didn't they encore with "My Boyfriend's Back" or "He's So Fine" back in the 70s???
As for the solos on 'Katy Lied', I think Walter's the only one who got 2 solos on that record: "Black Friday" and "Bad Sneakers".
Denny on "YGT II" and Derry on "Chain"...
That leaves Larry Carlton, Dean Parks, and Elliot Randall, i believe.
I say Elliot on "NYC", Larry on "Rose", and Dean on "Little Ones"...
The other tunes don't have guitar solos.
On 'Royal Scam' it's mostly Larry.
It's Denny and Elliot on "Green Earrings", and possibly Elliot on "Haitian"...
The solo on "Everything You Did" is one of my favorites!!! I guess it's Larry.
...not sure who played those great keys on "Stranger".
Date: Sat, October 05, 2002, 11:00:36
Posted by: Mike, Louisville, KY
WHAT??? - Yeah, I was surprised at that one as well. One of the tracks performed in the pre-New York Rock and Soul Revue days. Nothing like hearing Donald say : "I'm gonna get me a shotgun. Long as I am tall."
El Sup
Date: Sat, October 05, 2002, 08:43:15
Posted by: John LeBaron,
I know there probably has been much discussion on this particular subject in the past, but I was wondering about the solos on "Katy Lied" and "Royal Scam" albums especially. What about the piano solo on "Sign in Stranger"? My guess is Don Grolnick. Is that Denny Dias doing the solo on "Your Gold Teeth II"? I know it is WB on "Black Friday" and Rick Derringer on "Chain Lightning"... but what about the other tracks? I know, of course, that LC does "Kid Charlemagne" and "Don't Take Me Alive" and Elliot Randall on "Green Earrings"... but the rest? Forgive my ignorance, but can it be known for certain without the individual credits for each track? Or are the individual credits documented somewhere?
JL
Date: Sat, October 05, 2002, 08:43:02
Posted by: John LeBaron,
I know there probably has been much discussion on this particular subject in the past, but I was wondering about the solos on "Katy Lied" and "Royal Scam" albums especially. What about the piano solo on "Sign in Stranger"? My guess is Don Grolnick. Is that Denny Dias doing the solo on "Your Gold Teeth II"? I know it is WB on "Black Friday" and Rick Derringer on "Chain Lightning"... but what about the other tracks? I know, of course, that LC does "Kid Charlemagne" and "Don't Take Me Alive" and Elliot Randall on "Green Earrings"... but the rest? Forgive my ignorance, but can it be known for certain without the individual credits for each track? Or are the individual credits documented somewhere?
JL
Date: Sat, October 05, 2002, 03:04:56
Posted by: WHAT?, ?
Mike- CC Rider????????????????
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 20:04:26
Posted by: Mike, Louisville, KY
W1P - I wish the Dan would put out a rarities set. I've had to make my own. In fact, I recently put together a little personal use compilation with 14 rare live tracks - The Steely Dan Show, On the Dunes, Our Lawn (2 versions), Down Along the Cove, Almost Gothic, Girlfriend, Trans-Island Skyway, Mary Mary, Springtime, Ruby Baby, CC Rider, I Got News For You and Cringemaker. Tunes that were, for the most part, played very infrequently over the past 10 years. It is as close as I'm going to get.
El Sup
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 18:03:56
Posted by: Penno, UK
Dennis: I don't disagree with, perhaps Yes and Trevor Horn are a bad comparison in terms of 'type of overproduction'. The only other thing I would add then is that if the production stands out in some way then perhaps it detracts slightly from the performances (no matter how flawless)as I think the production does stand out on Karma for the reason I highlighted below. As in a Football match (soccer to you guys) if you didn't notice the Referee throughout the game then he did a good job, if he was all over the game like a rash .... well you see my point hopefully.
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 16:54:06
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
There is a difference between perfection and overproduction. Just listen to the Katy Lied album. Every instrument has it's place and it sounds wonderful. The instruments are pure. Overproduction to me is the blatant overuse of effects, compression and eq to polish something that doesn't sound good to begin with. I don't think great sounds and perfect performances count as overproduction.
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 16:49:30
Posted by: W1P,
I think its time to again complain about Citizen Steely Dan. I mean only one "rairity"? Everyone's Gone to the Movies? Sure Boddisattva live is on it but that was released previously as a B-side. How do we rectify this injustice?
Springsteen released a 4 disc set called Tracks that consists solely of unreleased material, B-sides and alternate versions -- FOUR DISCS! Now I know, the legendary perfection stuff, yadda, yadda. PLEASE consider doing what The Boss did -- here's what I want.
Unreleased Dan tracks such as those Gaucho session outtakes that caused such a stir when they got posted a few months back. B-sides, alternate version and rairities -- Dallas, All Too Mobile Home. Live stuff -- e.g., what else was on the setlist when Sanna Monnica got set on fiah? The complete Solo works of Walt and Don, including Nightfly, 11TOW, Kama and those movie items referenced below by Hoops. Stuff released since Citizen -- AIA, TvN. Maybe even through in the New York Rock n Soul review versions of Dan tracks. Anyway, I know this will never happen -- but seriously, shouldn't it? Walt/Don -- I swear to you that if you release all of this stuff, I will buy it and I will not judge you if any of it is not up to your high standards (plus if you release your solo records under the Dan banner, you'll sell a few more copies than you otherwise would have).
Hey, one can dream, can't they?
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 15:02:12
Posted by: Penno, Tuppaware
I agree with some comments about Donald and that he comes close to over producing his recordings. When I first heard Karma I couldn't believe how 'clean' the production was and wasn't sure if I liked it or not. Now its pretty much one of my favorites. I think if you listen to early SD stuff and pay close attention to the production I think you'll see (taking into account when they where made) that they were ahead of their time. 2vN is to my ears so close to Karma but I'm(we) now used to the 'digital' precession of recordings so 2vN's production doesn't stand out like Karma's did back in '93. The fact is Donalds clinical approach to production does fly close to the wind but he's shown he knows what he's doing, this final product show that. You've only got to listen to Yes from the Trevor Horn era to get a belly full of what 'over produced' sounds like.
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 14:21:11
Posted by: h,
Curious to note that those RIAA listings for Fagen say "SOLO" in each one.
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 14:18:23
Posted by: hoops,
11 Tracks get lots of rotation in my car. I wish he'd do a followup.
The various Fagen one-offs from the 1980s and early 1990s do make a great Fagen CD. There's "Century's End" and "True Companion." Then there is his version of "Big Noise New York," "Shanghai Confidential," "Confide In Me," and the bass/drums/vocals mix of "Trans-Island" and "Snowbound" (which was a Becker/Fagen penned composition). Throw in the Yellowjackets' "Shades" and "Blue Lou" from "Glengarry Glen Ross" and you got a fine CD. Wish "Finer Things" was on CD. I digitzed my LP copy to get it on CD, but , hey, I'm a mere mortal. Wonder if Nichols will ever or has remastered it.
h
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 13:21:28
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Signature means that if you heard Becker singing Deacon Blues, you probably wouldn't like the song nearly as much. I guess I was leaving the possibility open that if Becker sang a couple of the duo's less popular songs that maybe his interpretation would be popular. I mean, it seems like there are plenty of people who enjoyed WB's rendition of "Daddy Don't Live," as well as "Jack of Speed."
11TOW is enjoyable, but it's not up to the quality of the other SD studio albums. And I also agree that if it was released as Steely Dan "11 Tracks of Whack," the word "disappointing" would have appeared in more than one of it's reviews. Having said that, there's something about Becker that just fits with the overall tone of 11TOW.
Earl
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 13:16:09
Posted by: n,
by the time I finished typing that last entry and posted it, a few more posts came up, so it may not be clear that I was responding to the "sidekick" comment four or five posts below. D+W are definitely a team, and their work together shows that neither is second banana to the other. I personally prefer the idea of Fagen doing the vocals on the albums, but it's entirely up to them who does the singing, and they've obviously made their choice.
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 13:10:45
Posted by: norm,
Yes, but the quality of the songwriting they do together is different than the writing they do on their own. I guess it's expected that Fagen would sing any Dan tunes used for a single and radio play, because that's the sound people have come to expect, but there's no reason why Walter couldn't do the occasional album track...except that he chooses not to. Jack Of Speed is a good example: he sang it live, but when it came to recording it for the album, he left it to Donald.
I liked when Walter sang Monkey In Your Soul on the last tour, and I actually his version of Midnight Cruiser (1996 tour) to the original.
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 12:41:04
Posted by: Beerberino,
Oops. The formatting on those RIAA stats are all fucked up. You get the idea tho. Observe the RIAA curve!
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 12:35:17
Posted by: Wycliff, big hotel
Earl- What are you talking about? What's with the signature crap? Fagen IS the voice of Steely Dan! Except for three songs on "Can't Buy A Thrill", Fagen has sung EVERY SINGLE Steely Dan song on record! I'm not discounting Becker's contributions on any those records. But the voice of SD always was, and always will be Donald Fagen! Case closed.
Beerberian: If Karma and the Nitefly would have been put out as SD records, they would have sold more albums. What if 11TOW was put out as a SD record? I know what would of happend...it would have been the end of SD as we know it!
p.s. Question: If Becker would have sung two songs on 2VN, would it have still been voted album of the year? I don't think so....and apparently the record company, the fans and the band themselves felt the same way.
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 12:31:02
Posted by: Beerberino,
Here. The RIAA has Gold and Platinum Awards for Donald but not Walter. From their site
FAGEN, DONALD KAMAKIRIAD 07/28/93 REPRISE Gold ALBUM SOLO Standard FAGEN, DONALD THE NIGHTFLY 08/24/01 WARNER BROS. Platinum ALBUM SOLO Standard FAGEN, DONALD THE NIGHTFLY 12/14/82 WARNER BROS. Gold ALBUM SOLO Standard
Speaking of solo stuff, the miscillaneous bonus tracks that came with DF's CD singles make a great album unto themselves.
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 10:06:17
Posted by: Beerberino,
Fagen could have easily released The Nightfly and Kamakiriad as Steely Dan albums. In fact, they probably would have sold a lot more if they had been listed as Steely Dan albums. If 11TOW had come out as a Steely Dan album, I think fans would have been disappointed. Look at how many went to the New York Rock and Soul Review just to see Donald. Lewch, Walter's a cool sidekick but Donald is the center of Steely Dan.
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 08:47:39
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Lou Chang + Tower Room,
Fagen's voice is a signature of many Steely Dan tunes (Deacon Blues, Kid Charlemagne to name a couple), but to say that Steely Dan could never feature Becker as lead vocalist is very narrow-minded. Personally I think Becker's influences are extremely apparent throughout the music. 2VN is much smoother than the original 7, but I personally like that type of sound.
Being a musician and audiophile, I just find the music so dense and layered that I don't really care if the lyrics have a bite or not. Kamakiriad is a great album in it's own right, even though it may not contain the same heartfelt ideas that Fagen penned on "The Nightfly," it still contains some real great tunes. "On the Dunes" is a classic, as well as "Snowbound".
One thing about the differences between Fagen and Becker as singers: Fagen seems to be a much easier singer to harmonize with. You don't hear a lot of harmony vocals on 11TOW, and Steely Dan is almost completely about harmony. Fagen's voice just seems to blend better in my opinion.
Earl
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 03:42:35
Posted by: Beerberian @ Work,
Hoops; Sorry man we could tell you BUT then we'd have to kill ya ...LOL I struggle with some of the 11 tracks and from a personal POV I prefer the AIA ver of "Book of liars" .....different strokes etc
Date: Fri, October 04, 2002, 00:02:09
Posted by: a Tower Room , @eatmycock
LEWCH- Donald Fagen's voice IS Steely Dan. You can't get around it. The fans are not dumb. You have NO argument.
Date: Thurs, October 03, 2002, 15:49:03
Posted by: h, c
W1P: Thanks for the heads up. I've forward the info to the Chicago and Seattle Danfest lists.
h
Date: Thurs, October 03, 2002, 15:26:03
Posted by: w1p, WCH1ISPINK@AOL.COM
October showings of Tribute the Movie
CHIGAGO FILM FESTIVAL (October) Friday October 11 6:45PM Century Landmark Theaters, Tuesday October 15 9:15PM Music Box Theater
THE EXPERIENCE MUSIC PROJECT (SEATTLE): October 23rd 7 & 8:45pm 325 5th Ave. N at the Seattle Center. Tickets at the door.
Date: Thurs, October 03, 2002, 14:34:46
Posted by: hoops, chicago
Gee Lewch, granted "Kama" is my least favorite but I'm not saying it's bad. It's a fine album. Just very dense. I think you start with the most accessible--"Tomorrow's Girls"--and work from there if you are a newbie.
"The Nightfly" is incredible. It really captures the idealism I felt growning up and more obtusely expresses the spirit of why I do what I do for a living.
"Two Against Nature" not up to par because of Fagen? That's silly. I mean sure, he is the the most obsessive/compulsive of the duo but you make it sound like a bad album. It's a great one.
True, "11 Tracks of Whack" is great and underrated. And I agree that too many people think Steely Dan is all Fagen. Of course, it's not. Walter obvisouly provides wit and soul to Steely Dan. No, "Kamakiriad" isn't a Steely Dan album even in spirit. It's definitely a Donald album.
It is too bad that "Almost Gothic" wasn't performed more on the tour. It's really a sublime cut. Mike is right that NM is the only place they played it (read about it at http://www.dandom.com/idanvention/61100-albuquerque ) BTW: It's great to hear from you, Mike. (Sorry, can't bring myself to calling anyone but the Life cereal kid "Mikey.")
Big smmoocherss atcha, O. (Mmmmmmmwah!)
Penno/Beer: Huh?
Got the new Chris Potter. Will see him in the next couple of days. Chris reminds me not of Coltrane or...but Chris! accompanied by Herbie Hancok. Very cool album and very different from his last album which was a tribute to all the sax players who influenced him. Will write more when I finish listening the the CD. So far, the third track is my favorite.
"Tower of Power Freak!" Glad to hear the event at LBB was a huge success. I heard the place was packed to capacity.
Thanks to all of those who helped support the Live365 plea. We'd be up shit's creek without them. Despite their headbanger commercials, they seem like true companions. I'm surprised that others with Dan Fan stations aren't promoting their need for our help.
Hey Mieux.
h
Date: Thurs, October 03, 2002, 11:51:41
Posted by: Lewch Angg,
I agree. Eleven Tracks of Whack is the best album from Becker or Fagen in the past ten years. Better than Two Against Nature. The Nightfly is a masterpiece, but Kamakiriad is a boring and pretensious CD. It's most all brain and no heart. Eleven Tracks has both.
Kama a Steely Dan album? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The lyrics are way too wussy. It's like a Steely Dan without any lube. Walter is Lube Man and the milk spurting, vibrating action.
Now I will piss you off. Kamakiriad, the live one, and Two Against Nature would have been a helluva lot better if Fagen didn't seemingly exert so much control over them. I explained why I don't like Kama. I haven't listened to it for at least two years. It got stolen with some other CDs in my car. I haven't bothered to replace it. Alive in America has all the life taken out of it thanks to Donald's production. Fagen's almost kills Two Against Nature with his brainyness.
Then there is Whack. If Donald had did all the vocals, it would be hailed as the best Steely Dan album ever. Not that Walter's vocals are bad. Just the dumb fans think Steely Dan has to have Fagen singing. Both sing equally bad or good, if you step back and look at it objectively.
Lewch
Date: Thurs, October 03, 2002, 11:06:51
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA
Walter Becker's "11 Tracks of Whack" (1994) was one of the best releases of the nineties. Sharply written, brilliantly played, and full of Becker's patented acerbic wit and dark humor, it clearly gives great insight into the level of Becker's contribution to Steely Dan.
Becker is undoubtedly one of rock's most underrated guitarists (or bassists, for that matter) - though not at my house. Much of Steely Dan's lyrical perspective and musical adventurousness came from Becker, and this album deserves more airplay and exposure than most of the atrocious drivel that currently permeates the airwaves and synapses of the world. Hopefully a solo follow up will at one point see the light of day (though it's very unlikely).
Though Fagen's two solo efforts are both four-star stellar recordings, I play Becker's album more than either one them-
Randy/NIGHTFLY62@aol.com
Date: Thurs, October 03, 2002, 00:33:15
Posted by: W1P, wch1ispink@aol.com
TOM FREUND -- contributor of "Fearless" to the upcoming "A Fair Forgery of Pink Floyd" compilation has several upcoming events. (Tom has received accolades from The New York Post, New York Times, No Depression and Hits Magazine)
8:30pm October 4th at Java Joes (San Diego)
w/ Anya Marina
10:30pm October 9th at the HOTEL CAFE (1623 1/2 N. Cahuenga, Hollywood)
w/ Wes Cunnigham and Waz
10/19 Gram Fest (Parsons that is), Joshua Tree, CA
Clubs and Times TBA
10:45pm October 28th at the HOTEL CAFE (1623 1/2 N. Cahuenga, Hollywood)
w/ Anya Marina and Erik Berg
8pm November 15th at McCabes (3101 Pico Blvd., Santa Monica)
w/ fellow "Fair Forgery" contributor Graham Parker
11/16 Lobero Theatre w/ Graham Parker
Santa Barbara, CA
Tom Freund’s release Sympatico on his own Surf Road Records, earned just
praise for its “amazing songwriting, “ (Rockzines.com), “acoustic richness”
(No Depression). Tom’s 1st album, North American Long Weekend , has received play over and over again on stations like KCRW and WFUV. He has a groovey spacey EP (L.A. Fundamentalist) and also an extremely rare LP recorded with Ben Harper. This musician has toured and recorded with Graham Parker and the Silos and has rich history of great songwriting pulling in many TV and Film uses for his soulful, jazzy rock infused American melancholy.
The New York Times, Ann Powers placed North American Long Weekend in her top 5 a few years back. Sympatico had All Music Guide calling Tom “One of those great singer-songwriters...Truly unique and absolutely brilliant”. The New York Post called it “Gorgeous wide open spacious scenes, explorations of the young heart…” and Hits Magazine proclaimed that Sympatico had “Bare and beautiful melodies, lean lyrics and the kind of hometown heartaches that Springsteen’s ‘Nebraska’ left you with…it’s and organic yet lush, rush.”
For more information;
http://www.TomFreund.com
http://www.MilesOfMusic.com
http://www.RegionalAmerica.com
Date: Wed, October 02, 2002, 21:25:08
Posted by: Peg, Cincinna-tuh
Well, darn, Mikey, that's bad news about Almost Gothic. But it's such a neato song. Maybe it's a bit too high for Donald to sing?
Glad you had a good time and got to go to NYC. Sounds like you were simply making up for all of us who were unable to attend.
Date: Wed, October 02, 2002, 20:01:35
Posted by: John LeBaron,
Hey, John S. from Iowa... Yes, particularly DF's solo albums "The Nightfly" (1982) and "Kamakiriad" (1993)- both are excellent. The latter might as well be Steely Dan, seeing that WB plays bass and solo guitar on all the tracks. The former features Larry Carlton playing lead guitar. And speaking of LC, the lead guitar on "Kid Charlemagne" has been rated as one of the best EVER. That's Larry also on "Don't Take Me Alive", truly awesome, fer sure.
Date: Wed, October 02, 2002, 18:33:35
Posted by: John Stanford, Ames, Iowa
Hi!
I discovered Steely Dan this past summer when I bought the box set. I can't believe I've missed them all this time.
I was wondering if I should buy any of the solo albums next. Are they as good? My favorite is Kid Charlemagne.
John Stanford
Date: Wed, October 02, 2002, 10:47:50
Posted by: Mikey, Louisville, KY
Peg - While I was in NYC for the Hall of Fame celebration, I asked Tom Barney about playing Almost Gothic again live (the only time was 6/11/00 in New Mexico - which I didn't think sounded bad). He rolled his eyes and said "Never, ever again." I think Fagen had some trouble with the vocals. So don't hold your breath.
On the other hand, I remember when I was 10 years old and listening to the radio broadcast of The Who's 1982 Farewell Concert from Toronto. They were never, ever going to tour again.
Anyone remember "this guy" at the HOF week celebration:
http://www.dandom.com/halloffameweek/photoalbum/ed/DCP00015_JPG.html
That would be me. My blood alcohol level still won't let me drive legally.
Take care,
El Sup
Date: Wed, October 02, 2002, 04:25:21
Posted by: Beerberian@The Geeetar Shop, Quests End
Hoops ..... The yellow book wins this one (ducking) - Hutch has ID'd the Axe as a Framus Sorella 50's model .
Next Tour bring it on .... Pretzel Logic for me please
Date: Tues, October 01, 2002, 21:39:36
Posted by: Peg, oh so kitchen clean
I ditto Hoopsie's Evil Twin on his choices for songs that MUST be done on the next tour, and especially Walter doing Josie. I wanna hear IGY, Caves of Altamira, and Your Gold Teeth II with a nice lengthy solo by Walter during the break. As for tunes from 2VN, pa-lease, make them do West of Hollywood and Almost Gothic!
As for the 11 tracks: YEAH! Let's see, if the CD is out next year (early), then we can expect a tour?
Date: Tues, October 01, 2002, 21:32:57
Posted by: oleander, nose above the water
long time etc.!
xxxooo hoops!, my man!
Re: "Chick, Donald, Walter, and Woodrow": I agree; even now a most meritorious & fun cover session and one of the best album covers EVER. Anybody wants a burned cd of it, lemme know.... Just fill in the blanx on my email w/ the rest of my handle....
Date: Tues, October 01, 2002, 09:18:45
Posted by: Roy.Scam, harlem or somewhere the same
Sean~ That Harlem photo website was terrific. I'd seen that historic photo before but never a copy that could take me down dozens of different interesting paths at the touch of a mouse. Unfortunately, I simply didn't have time to go wandering through dozens of interesting paths. Even more unfortunately, I took the time.
Date: Tues, October 01, 2002, 07:15:26
Posted by: Beerberian doin his 9 - 5,
Yo Penno I'll bake a cake ..... Should I ring Mr O ?? Did ya get the mail from Neil ....still all up in the air it seems
Date: Tues, October 01, 2002, 05:54:27
Posted by: Penno, Lincolnshire Prison
Beerberian: No news from the menders yet then ? Kinda excited to know who how it sounds.
September 2002 BlueBook Entries
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