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All Times are Eastern (New York City) Time Zone.
Click for September 2002 BlueBook Entries
Date: Sat, August 31, 2002, 11:44:08
Date: Fri, August 30, 2002, 18:15:36
Date: Fri, August 30, 2002, 18:13:05
Date: Fri, August 30, 2002, 16:58:07
Date: Fri, August 30, 2002, 16:10:30
Date: Fri, August 30, 2002, 14:29:15
Date: Fri, August 30, 2002, 13:23:47
Date: Thurs, August 29, 2002, 13:10:03
Date: Thurs, August 29, 2002, 12:56:28
Date: Thurs, August 29, 2002, 12:38:50
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Date: Thurs, August 29, 2002, 12:37:12
Date: Thurs, August 29, 2002, 12:26:19
Date: Thurs, August 29, 2002, 10:59:30
Date: Thurs, August 29, 2002, 09:25:01
Date: Thurs, August 29, 2002, 07:39:42
Date: Wed, August 28, 2002, 21:56:27
Date: Wed, August 28, 2002, 19:05:02
Date: Wed, August 28, 2002, 12:26:47
AUGUST 2002 BlueBook Entries
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas"For example, Kind of Blue was a success because of Bill Evans and Coltrane and not so much because of Miles."
Huh? ...and Royal Scam is only good because of Chuck Rainey and Larry Carlton, not Walter and Donald...
...if one ignores the stuff from the 70s, the recordings done by Miles Davis with 5 or 6 (if you count Gil Evans) discrete bands he put together - all with far different players and styles was EXCEPTIONAL!
Posted by: W1P, Tribute Band HeavenAlberta Cover Groupie -- you asked for it, you're gonna get it. But you do realize that, other than being a fan, I have no affliation with any Steely Dan tribute band?
Echoes is the best track performed live by W1P -- the version that appears on Meddle is soft-pedaled to some degree. We play it with the power of a Wall-era Pink Floyd without detracting from the soundscape portions of the song. Sheep is another one -- power, vitriol -- the whole Roger Waters experience.
Posted by: Shotan, Birmingham, UKHi Cover groupie
Thanks for your encouragement to post more in depth about our SD tribute activiites. We're reluctant to blow too many of our own (though mighty fine!) trumpets and prefer to leave unbiased judgement up to those who come along to the shows. There's also the very real fact that it's virtually a full time job trying to keep our show on the road and time is unfortunately limited for a more leisurely use of the newsgroups and guestbooks. I really enjoy reading the postings and would love to have the time to get more involved in the threads. Now I know there's some interest in the background to the tribute scene It'd be a pleasure to pass on any reviews and news of the Band (The Danny Steel Orchestra)and the loyal UK SD fandom.
Please support your local SD band...there's no money in it...just a whole load of dedication and love for this magical stuff .
www.dannysteelorchestra.co.
"close your eyes and you'll be there, it's everything they say..."
Posted by: Cover Groupie, Hey I'm thrilled to pieces hearing about upcoming show times and datelines of cover bands. Glad to know there are people out there who love that Funked up muzak so much.
But Paul, Stevee, Dennis, W1P, and so on: Why the Wham-Bam-Thank-You-Dan-Fan? We BlooBookers expect more.
Instead of just dates, how about a little review of what your last show was like, or a brief story about the ambience of your next gig? What are you cover band's favorite songs to cover? Why should I wanna hop a plane to come see you guys? What made you start covering Steely Dan? Stay a while tell us about you. This superficial "Here's our next show--see ya later" stuff is lame-o.
The ads get the idea across but how that stuff being the tagline of an interview? I bet it would generate interest in your little show.
Cover Groupie
Posted by: W1P, Los AngelesDarren: Thanks for the post about XM Radio. Thanks to you I finally hooked up with the guy in charge of the "Unsigned" channel and figured out how to submit stuff from bands with which I am loosely affliated!
Posted by: Steveedan, From in front of the BandstandS H A M E L E S S ... P L U G G I N G (Department of ...)
Tomorrow morning, down at the beautiful Hermosa Beach Pier, come and see
Pretzel Logic - A Steely Dan Revue live.
Show time is 11 AM to 2 PM and it is a festival so there is no cover charge. Just good times and lots of fun in the sun ... with all the California babes you can handle (and hunks for the girls ...).
One interesting note ... The Danny Steely Orchestra will be playing on their stage in the U.K. at the same time that we will be playing on ours. Those of you with teleporters will have a great time attending both shows.
(Knock 'em dead, Shotan and Company.)
... And to all the Dandom, have a great Labor Day weekend.
Steveedan (F, BL, MD, & KM for PL-ASDR
Posted by: Sean, Quincy MaHi!
Sorry to miss the big Dan Fan party in Chicago. Sounds like a great time. And it sure has me wishing for a real tour. Maybe this is the quiet before the storm, maybe like three years ago, just before it was announced that TAN was coming out.
A friend of mine and I were discussing Miles Davis versus Louis Armstrong. He made a fascinating point. He said, Miles gets a lot of attention but he was more ego than anything else. Meanwhile, Louis Armstrong was humble. Then he argued that Miles' self-absorption ushered in self-indulgence in Jazz and ultimately caused its downfall. Furthermore, most of Mile's success was based on other people's efforts. For example, Kind of Blue was a success because of Bill Evans and Coltrane and not so much because of Miles.
He had more to say but I can't rephrase it all. Still, very intriguing.
Looks like the baseball strike has been averted. What was that Paul Simon song about baseball and life on Still Crazy After All These Years? Phoebe Snow is on that album as well.
Anyone game for a Boston Dan Fest? With no album or tour, it feels like a Dan Fast.
Sean
Posted by: hoops, Chicago
From: hoops@dandom.com
Subject: YOUR HELP NEEDED: Help Keep Radio Free Dandom Alive
Internet Radio has been going through some troubled time due to legislation lobbied for by music corporations. As a result Internet Radio providers like Live365.com, which makes Radio Free Dandom, and other stations possible are in danger of being forced out of existence.
Live365.com and myself are asking for your help. If you are a US citizen, Live365 has set up a form letter that you can sign on the web and they will FAX IT FREE FOR YOU. Please stop by the URL below and take a couple of minutes to do so. Without it, Radio Free Dandom and other stations may not be around much longer.
Here's the URL.
http://www.voiceofwebcasters.org/smallwebfax.htm
Here's what Live365.com had to say:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:45:11
Subject: help save internet radio : fax congress!
From: "Live365.com Newsletter" <RadioFree365@lists.live365.com>
Greetings Internet Radio Fans -
Thanks to the LOUD outcry surrounding the royalty rates set by the Librarian of Congress, three U.S. Representatives have introduced the Internet Radio Fairness Act.
This bill is in the House of Representatives currently, and needs your support!
We need each and every one of our listeners and broadcasters to FAX CONGRESS in support of the Internet Radio Fairness Act.
Feel free to use this link:
http://www.voiceofwebcasters.org/smallwebfax.htm
It will take two minutes, and it costs nothing. These two minutes will help preserve the diversity of choices that Internet Radio offers.
Then, visit the Live365 activist page for more ways you can help.
http://www.live365.com/carp/activist.html
We have a window of time to make an impact. Speak now!!
Thank you!
betty r.
senior editor | live365
Posted by: Darren,
Just got the response. See below. Was this the interview show that was aired around March 6, 2000 or excerpts from Sony?
Darren
-----Original Message-----
From: Chamberlain, Brian [mailto:Brian.Chamberlain@xmradio.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 10:40 AM
To: 'DGALLAGHER'
Subject: RE: Steely Dan concert tomorrow
Hi Darren,
Actually, that Steely Dan show will be airing on XM Café Live tonight (Thursday) at 9pm west/midnight east. I've attached a list of all our "weekday specials" and when they run. You can also find this list on our XM Café channel page at http://www.xmradio.com
In answer to your Steely Dan question, it was a special radio show done shortly after they released the cd...a one off if you will...
Enjoy Darren! Drop us a line anytime, and thanks a lot for listening!
Sincerely,
Brian
Brian Chamberlain
Director of Musical Interludes
XM Cafe/ XM 45
XM Satellite Radio
Posted by: Darren, From the XM radio website.............. I don't recall a Beacon show
from 2000. Any thoughts?
Darren
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friday 8/30
XM Cafe Live: Steely Dan
XM Cafe - XM 45
7 PM ET
XM Cafe Live brings you Steely Dan recorded live in New York City at the Beacon Theatre from 2000
Posted by: The Bill Comes Due, The cover charge for Katy Lied tomorrow night is $10 to defer expenses.
Posted by: DJ, ChicagoIs there a cover charge for the Katy Lied gig this Friday? I may be able to show up sometime after 9pm.
dj
Posted by: Earl, DelawareGreat discussion surrounding chords. I have been trying hard to appreciate even less-interesting songs from a chordal standpoint. Bottom line is that if a song sounds good, that's what matters. I've written a couple of songs, and want to do more. What I've found is that you just have to trust your ear. A lot of times that means using the circle of 5ths and ascending/descending bass lines, but there are just so many options to creating interesting songs. I want to pursue songwriting when I get more time, but I have quite a few obligations that make songwriting a low priority.
As far as diminished chords go, dim's are usually reserved for the 7th degree of your key, and as was pointed out are one way to modulate. Popular music tends to shy away from the diminished chord because of the unhappy tension that it creates. It seems that most popular musicians will substitute the 1st inversion of the V chord for the VIIdim to keep a warmer, happier tone to their songs. For instance, in the key of G, an example progression might be:
|G D/F# | Em7 D | C Bm7 | Am7 D7 | G ||.
Not from any song in particular, but I'm sure there are hundreds of songs that use a similar progression to get from the I to the VI chord. I guess my point was that I've been trying to have more tolerance for things like this, because I consider the above progression to be very overworked. So lately I've been even trying to keep an open mind to these types of things. I think it's true that Steely Dan fans have a very picky taste in music, and I am as much a contributor to this phenomenon as anyone.
In any case, songcraft is an awesome study. Peg, good luck w/ your charts, and as Mr. Sam pointed out, using -5 is an acceptable practice for indicating a flatted fifth. So putting B7-5 works. I think your B7b5 is also fine, but writing it that way you may want to superscript the b5 (if you haven't already). I'm not sure if you are charting by hand or with software. Software can be pretty powerful. I use Coda Allegro, and my only real complaint is that the way you assign chords can be problematic. Allegro has a finite number of chords you can use in their library, so you have to resort to using a textbox if you want to notate a chord that's not in their library. Other than that it's pretty cool. Coda's #1 product is Finale if you are looking for a top product to do some serious scoring.
Going to the C2E party in Balt this weekend, looking forward to jamming w/ the Wu band!
Earl
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaPeg- You're right about Celine. I cut her slack because her material seems more interesting and listenable than others' boring, droney dreck. But she's one loud gymnast.
Sam- Thanks for the diminished overview and highlights. As I mentioned a while back, I find playing some of these chord changes "solo" (I use guitar, but imagine keyboard would get the same effect) give you a different level of appreciation for the underlying power and creativity in the songs. Unearthed from the arrangements, those moments (like the "Pearl" line you mention) are like little chord-change gems. Of the artists whose stuff I've tried to play, the only other besides SD that consistently serves up "wow" changes is the Beatles. (They managed to do it with mostly "mainstream" chords, which I think is a part of their genius.)
Posted by: Paul Shotan, Birmingham UKTHE DANNY STEEL ORCHESTRA...clearly 'Dan:
The UK's finest purveyors of all things Dan-ish are appearing at
THE DOG & TRUMPET
Hertford Street
Coventry City Centre
Warwickshire, UK
on
SATURDAY AUGUST 31st at 8.30pm
2 hours of the Dan...ALL LIVE...so coooooool it's HOT!
With Mr."Widdly-widdly Carlton-schmarlton" Glynn Davies on lead plank, backed by the 11 strong L'Orchestre Formidable DSO
...clearly 'Dan
Hope to see you there...oceans are not admissable obstacles to full attendance! Production of a Cunard or Imperial Airways ticket stub entitles you to FREE VIP admission!
www.dannysteelorchestra.co.uk
"close your eyes and you'll be there, it's everything they say..."
Posted by: Peg, Hey, Mr. Sam -- Thanks. Isn't it great, the effect dimished chords have? What a great use on Aja, huh? I've been working on charts. So to write a flat five on a chart, I am just doing B7b5, for example. Making charts is an illuminating and humbling experience! It's great to have so many fellow musicians as Dan fans also.
Hoopsie -- aw, not only do I feel bad I can't be there, but now do you have to mention Gino's East!!! Not fair! All of us need some of that pie now.
As for the comments about vocalists' gymnastics, I say amen. And as far as Celine not doing too many, I agree, but must say...She may not be hitting a thousand in-between notes, but she's made up for it by screaming rather than singing. Oui, cherie, there is a difference between the two.
Posted by: W1P, LAHoops, I assume that you are not one of the world's biggest Van Halen fans BUT on my birthday, October 19, 2002, the Atomic Punks hit Chicago! This is arguably the best tribute band in the world and they play exclusively David Lee Roth era Van Halen. Here's the skinny (Yo Flaco)
Joe's Bar
940 W. Weed Street
Chicago, IL 60622
Tel: 312.337.3486
http://www.joesbar.com/
Posted by: Mister Sam,
Peg- Chords with flatted 5ths are called diminished chords. There are 4 varieties: the diminished chord (aka the diminished 7th), the half-diminished chord, the 7th diminished 5th chord (aka the 7th flat five), and the major 7th diminished 5th chord (aka the major 7th flat 5). Here's the formula and a sample for each:
[1] diminished = 1st + min 3rd + flatted 5th + double flatted 7th _____ (C dim = C + E flat + G flat + A)
[2] half-diminished = 1st + min 3rd + flatted 5th + flatted 7th _____ (Cm7-5 = C + E flat + G flat + B flat)
[3] 7th flat 5 = 1st + maj 3rd + flatted 5th + flatted 7th _____ (C7-5 = C + E + G flat + B flat)
[4] major 7th flat 5 = 1st + maj 3rd + flatted 5th + maj 7th _____ (Cmaj7-5 = C + E + G flat + B)
The notation for these chords may vary from one songbook to another. The "C dim" chord, for instance, might also be written as C°. You might also find songbooks that use flat signs instead of minus signs in the names of 7th flat 5 chords.
The diminished 7th chord is particularly interesting because it stacks four minor 3rd intervals on top of each other. As a result, there are only 3 unique diminished chords (eg, C dim = E flat dim = G flat dim = A dim.) This makes them particularly useful as "pivot chords" for modulating (ie, changing key within a song). SD's Pearl of the Quarter makes very nice use of this type of chord in the section that begins "And if you hear from my Louise . . ." This chord form also descends chromatically in the "Reelin' in the Years" line "The weekend at the college didn't . . ."
The 7th flat 5 and major 7th flat 5 varieties appear consecutively in "Aja" on the word (and subsequent sustain of) "you" in the phrase "I run to you-oo-oo."
Unfortunately, I can't offer a SD application of the half-diminished chord, though, I'm sure it exists somewhere.
Stevee- A very belated yet humble thanks for providing me the lyrics to Mister Sam. They just make me appreciate that little gem of a tune all the more. BTW, anybody else around here suspect that Donald was just improvising the vocal melody on the recorded version of the tune? It is wonderfully spikey and quirky if you ask me (just try to sing it!), but it somehow works amazingly well within the context of the song.
Date: Tues, August 27, 2002, 23:57:02
Posted by: jk,
just hanging at ASCAP. i didn't know about marcelle. and don copywrited the wacky lyrics to hanks' pad (performers df & sd??) but not steely dan show - maybe he didn't write those?:
BIG NOISE NEW YORK (Title Code: 320388087)
Writers:
CLEMENTS MARCELLE
FAGEN DONALD JAY
Performers:
WARNES J
WARNES JENNIFER
DAYDREAMIN (Title Code: 340420566)
Writers:
BECKER WALTER CARL
DANIELS LASHAWN AMEEN
FAGEN DONALD JAY
HAMILTON S
JERKINS FREDDIE D III
JERKINS R
PANKEI PETER
Performers:
ALI T
TATYANA ALI
DON'T TRUST 'EM (Title Code: 340355431)
Writers:
BECKER WALTER CARL
FAGEN DONALD JAY
Performers:
(none found)
Variations:
DONT TRUST EM
Publishers/Administrators:
UNIVERSAL MCA MUSIC PUBLISHING A DIV
OF UNIVERSAL STUDIOS INC
ATTN: ROYALTY DEPT
2440 SEPULVEDA BLVD
SUITE 100
LOS ANGELES , CA, 90064
Tel. (310) 235-4700
EYE KNOW (Title Code: 350183330)
Writers:
BECKER WALTER CARL
FAGEN DONALD JAY
HUSTON PAUL E
JOLICOEUR DAVID J
MERCER KELVIN
WASON V
Performers:
(none found)
Save
SET IN MOTION (Title Code: 490683311)
Writers:
FAGEN DONALD JAY
Performers:
FAGEN D
FAGEN DONALD
Save
HANK S PAD (Title Code: 380502849)
Writers:
FAGEN DONALD JAY
MANCINI HENRY N
Performers:
FAGEN DONALD
STEELY DAN
Variations:
(none found)
Publishers/Administrators:
FREEJUNKET MUSIC
% SALTER STREET MUSIC
ATTN: LEN FREEDMAN
1482 E VALLEY ROAD
# 400
SANTA BARBARA , CA, 93108
Tel. (805) 966-6999
UNIVERSAL MCA MUSIC PUBLISHING A DIV
OF UNIVERSAL STUDIOS INC
ATTN: ROYALTY DEPT
2440 SEPULVEDA BLVD
SUITE 100
LOS ANGELES , CA, 90064
Tel. (310) 235-4700
look for me in chi town,
jk
Date: Tues, August 27, 2002, 20:18:57
Posted by: hoops, chicago
BTW:
Let's all plan on meeting at Gino's East at 6:00 PM Friday night. We can have what is arguably the best Chicago Deep Dish Pizza and have drinks and discuss some Dan stuff. Then we can waddle a couple of blocks down Ontario to Excalibur.
Afterwards Midnight we can head around the corner to the Clark Street Ale House, just south of Chicago Ave.
h
Date: Tues, August 27, 2002, 20:10:50
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale,
Norm you have made some great points there.
Date: Tues, August 27, 2002, 19:44:50 Here's the ad which is about 5" X 5" on paper. Below that is a daytime photo of Excalibur.
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©Page Design 2001jim mckay - flat hat design
Posted by: hoops, chicagoI scanned in that great ad that Bob Blum of Katy Lied designed, paid for and placed in the "Chicago Reader." Thanks again, Bob, I'm sure this will help us all connect with Dan Dans we've not connected with before.
For more about Katy Lied, check out http://www.katylied.tv
For more about Excalibur (including the "In Vision" Nightclub, check out http://www.aceplaces.com/x/ex_load.html
I hope everyone who is attending will come on out and support Bob and the rest of Katy Lied. They're really pleased to play and generally cater to us; let's reciprocate the support.
Excalibur
Posted by: Cosmic WoW, How is everyone?
To weigh in on the Vocal Gymnastics thread, let's remember, even Cathy Berberian knows there's one roulade she can't sing
WoW
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Posted by: norm, one last thought on all that...and of course, there's obviously a big difference between Coltrane and Kenny G...I tried to warn you about Gino and THAT guy....
Posted by: Jackie, FloridaI agree with what was said that a great song need no vocal gymnastics (I call them melismas). Maybe at the end of the song during the repeat ad-lib and fade part ok. But there seems to be songs these days that are so barely a song that it NEEDS the padding of those melismas.
Donald Fagen is one of my favorite vocalists probably because he does little or none of that and his voice is so easy on the ears.
Joe Jackson is another example of a straight forward delivery of a song.
Posted by: norm, Ayanna - I only meant gynmnastics in the sense of using it in place of good material or true inspiration. I don't include singers like Flora Purim or Aretha Franklin in that category. They not only had a point to what they were doing, but thay did it in the service of quality material. That's way different than using the voice to do the equivalent of a wanky guitar solo to draw attention away from the fact that someone forgot to have a Good Idea in the first place. (But since you put the word "singers" in quotes, I guess we both agree on this.)
Too much stuff out there doesn't convey the sense that the performer - notice I didn't say "singer" or "artist" - has anything in mind besides just getting on a stage and being noticed (like they're still in high school). A lot of it has to do with the way music is marketed these days - i.e., through video. I remember seeing "Friday Night Videos" in the mid-'80s, and every time a song would come on that I'd never heard, I would turn the picture off and just listen. Five minutes later, I'd realize that nothing of interest happened musically, so the real interest must have been in the visual part, which really defeats the purpose of what music is supposed to be about (painting your own pictures in your mind, rather than having someone do it for you). A far cry from the days of songs that packed everything into two-and-a-half minutes and left you wanting to hear it again straight away.
Over the years, it's just been more and more about selling airtime. Too bad they're leaving quality out in the process, but that's show biz. Back when the animators at Warner Brothers were doing all their great work in the 1940's, the only criteria they were given by the studio was to make each cartoon exactly six minutes long. That they managed to slip some quality in is almost besides the point, except that those cartoons are brilliant works of art that will last forever, while I have a hard time imagining a lot of the current crap in the Top 10 on oldies radio in 20 years. ("Listen honey, they're playing our song...whatever it was...")
And there's a lot of people who listen to music superficially, so that stuff will grab their attention a lot quicker than something where the rewards are initially more subtle, but ultimately more rewarding. There again, a lot of people aren't looking to music as something to enrich their soul, just something to tap their foot to while working or shopping, so it's no loss to them either way.
But there's way too much good stuff going on nowadays to even worry about any of that. I just leave the TV and radio off, and from there it's easy to find great new things happening all the time.
But where was I?...oh yeah...I never meant to compare a more straightforward vocalist like Sandy Denny to someone like Aretha Franklin; they both do what they do (or did), and it's all fine. Comparing Aretha to Mariah...well, that's another thing entirely. Kind of like comparing a guitarist from some cheeseball hair metal band to Richard Thompson or Leo Kottke. Both of them are plenty flashy when they feel like it, but they always have a point to what they're playing, which also leads them to playing very minimally when the mood strikes. Any musician will tell you that playing fast is easy if you practice long enough, but moving an audience to tears with just a few well-placed notes is an art in itself. It's not a lost art, you just aren't likely to find it in the swill the media is pumping down the public's throats.
Posted by: W1P, My City of RuinMaterial makes all the difference -- just look at Rod Stewart. He is the vocalist on some of the best songs of all time and some of the worst.
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaRe: vocal gymnastics. Perception I've had through the years is that singers with great pipes or distinctive abilities evolve (or devolve) to the point where the VOICE becomes the "thing." That's when they forget the most important ingredient: the material.
So you get a progression of albums with BORING material, full of vocal feats and little else of interest.
Names that seem to fit that frustrating pattern include Barbra, Whitney, Anita (Baker), Roberta, k.d. and others. So far it seems Celine Dion has been able to find some pretty good songs and not deteriorate, but I only hear her radio stuff. [Don't mean to dis only the women, but those are the ones that seem to be the best gymnasts.]
Fagen (he of non-remarkable pipes) can be listened to album after album thanks to great material ...
"I cried when I recorded this song, sue me if I sing too long."
Posted by: Earl, DelawarePeg: Music theory is an endless lesson. The great thing about it is that there really are no rules in my opinion. The only true rule is that it has to evoke the response that is intended. I think that's one area that D+W do an excellent job...using musical passages to cause emotional responses from their audience. Some people get it, and some don't.
Earl
Posted by: Earl, DelawareGypsyqueen: There's a difference in my opinion. The "vocal gymnastics" performed by today's artists are planned weeks in advance, pre-arranged into the music. The scat/jazz artists did their "vocal gymnastics" pretty much out of improvisation and vision. To compare the two is like comparing Ryan Leaf and Johnny Unitas.
Earl
Posted by: Peg, Ironing them shirts againHey, Steevie Dan, NO you are not dumber than me (I bet I'm dumber than you) just because you're a keyboard player. I am also. I was never taught proper theory (not enough for jazz). I did find a notation of a flat 5 that looked like b5 and so that is what we are using. That 22-year-old guitar player in our band taught me quite a bit of theory the other day!!! Guess guitarists just know more than we do -- duhh. I will have to credit him for the charts!
Jackie! Thanks for the info about Vanessa Carlton. You know I was going to ask about Nora Jones also, but I think I've heard enough to decide she's not matured into her "own" yet..she's good, but you know? You are so right about how refreshing it is to hear youngsters doing nice songs. I just ordered CDs of John Mayer.
Scat Singing -- It is GREAT. Go get Kenny Rankin's first album if you want to bliss out. Get all those other classic-type greats, too.
Good singers should be allowed to "show off" IF (here's my personal qualifying statement) they do it cause they are into the music and not doing it to impress with their prowess. As Ayanna said, a true artist/vocalist will use his or her voice as an instrument. And, may I add, not to simply show off with.
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale, Sorry Norm,but gotta disagree with you there.
Even though I'm NOT a fan of Mariah or most of today's "singers",saying they shouldn't do vocal gymnastics really doesn't make any sense,most great singers will do it sooner or later..I mean hasn't every jazz singer done some vocal gymnastics,isn't scatting vocal gymnastics?
Flora Purim is one of the greatest vocalists EVER,and her records are full of vocal gymnastics,and that's why I love her.
Every REAL soul singer does it,from Aretha to Patti to Chaka Khan..I really don't think Aretha would be called the QUEEN OF SOUL,if she didn't do it.
If I go see someone in concert,I would hope they wouldn't just sing songs straightforward all the time,I want a singer to show me what they can do,I want to be moved and sometimes vocalese will do that more than just singing the words.
The voice is an instrument, and anyone who calls themselves a vocalist,should be able to do with their voice,what Coltrane did with his saxophone!
Ayanna
Posted by: hoops, ChicagoThe edition of "Streetwise" that came out today has some nice coverage of the Chicago Jazzfest. They also list "da Mare Daley" web page for the event:
http://www.ci.chi.il.us/SpecialEvents/Festivals/Jazz2002
(Thanks to "WHT/Dolphin944" for the correction of the crazy error I had in the URL.)
For out of towners, there is also a parking garage map included. "Streetwise" is this newspaper that is sold in street corners in the Loop area by people who often homeless.
h
Posted by: Jackie, FloridaPeg, and others, I was impressed with Vanessa Carlton. The other songs on the CD are even better than the single "1,000 miles." It was refreshing to hear something so removed from the Britney sound from someone of that age group. I got paid to listen to it and transcribe it for sheet music. .. . a fun project! I am new to this board and a recently revived Dan fan.
Posted by: Maryruth, So this is what that meathead was always talking about.
Folks, as a resident of "East Central" Ill. I can tell you we are glad to get rid of "Hoops the old goat." We just gave up on the twat.
"Hello Jim"
"Ahem, Maryruth, i told you a 1000 times - its Hoops. I run a very successful Steely Dan guest book - don't you know!"
This screwball made less sense than the gospel of Saint Thomas.
Well, we had a danfest here - see ya Hoops. I was actually the only one here and there was a soul ram and some kirsvasssher involved … (How do I know these terms? Every fucking Kwanzza Jim would give Steelly Dum shit to his secret santa!!!!!) And the asshole had the balls to feel me up one xmas party! Not so hard - dork!
Well Jim we are fumagating your office, many years of bad farts add up you know!
M - from the staff.
Posted by: Stevous Danious, Lost somewhere in my headHey Dennis, and the whole Lyin' Crew ---
Thanks for the info, I will be there in spirit, as I am at all of your gigs, so, knock the ball clean outta da park!
Thanks Norm ... maybe we have some time this week? Lemme know.
SteveeeeeD
Posted by: Katy Lied, ChiHi Stevee,
Chicago Danfest/Jazzfest is this weekend with Katy Lied performing on Friday night at Vision Nightclub from 9:00 to 12:00 pm.
Vision
640 N. Dearborn
Chicago
Posted by: norm, Yo Stevee,
Seattle was totally ragin'! There wasn't a bad set by anyone all weekend. It was great to see that all these folks are still active (and NOT sucking!).
For those who have no idea what I'm talking about, there was a three-day music festival called Progman Cometh, held at the Moore Theatre in downtown Seattle. Most of the "progfests" in recent years concentrate on the more "symphonic" side of progressive rock; I never cared for that stuff much, so hearing some young guys doing a fifth-rate imitation of ELP isn't my idea of a good time. But this event focused on the "Canterbury scene," which is less ponderous and more humorous than all that. A few local prog groups performed in the afternoon, but I missed them all, as I wanted to save my ears for the evening; I heard later from others that most of them were really good.
First night (8/16) had Hughscore, with Hugh Hopper of Soft Machine, but I missed their set, as I'd been up all night from work and had to take a nap once I arrived. Got to the venue in time to see Pip Pyle's Bash, featuring the great drummer/composer of Gong, Hatfield & The North and National Health. Pip is one of those rare drummers who can take a genre of music (progressive fusion, for lack of a better term) that's usually dry and stodgy, put his own spin on it, and give it a warm, human feel. This was their debut gig, I think.
Saturday (8/17) had a last-minute fill-in afternoon set by Richard Sinclair, the bassist/guitarist/vocalist from Hatfield, Caravan and Camel. He came back that evening for his official set, this time with keyboardist David Rees-Williams (sort of a Canterbury equivalent of Oscar Peterson), and the crowd ate it up. Richard has been recording sporadically since 1968, and he has NEVER written a bad song (at least nothing he's released), and how many artists can you say THAT about? He's gone into musical semi-retirement for years on end rather than released subpar material, and his body of work is all the better for it. This guy really needs to spend more time in America, and if all goes well, he soon will be.
Next up was the debut gig by Software, a new group with four ex-Soft Machine members: Allan Holdsworth (guitar), John Marshall (drums), Elton Dean (sax) and Hugh Hopper (bass). A little rough at times, but with players like these, a little rough is still better than most people's well-rehearsed. An album and European tour are in the plans.
Sunday's evening show began with Phil Miller's In Cahoots, featuring the guitarist from Hatfield and National Health. I'd heard a tape of them from 1990 or so, and I didn't care for it much - jazz of the more cerebral, "chin stroking" variety - so this set was a pleasant surprise. Jazz the way I like it: ballsy, visceral, and fun for all concerned.
Rounding out the weekend was Daevid Allen (Gong, Soft Machine) and his University Of Errors, with special guest Kevin Ayers, who joined them for four songs. A brief "all-star jam" ended the evening, by which time everyone was exhausted but exhilarated.
The show was advertised on the Net, so people flew in from all over, but for whatever reason, local advertising was practically nil, so the theatre wasn't anywhere near capacity. Considering these folks were flown in from Europe and put up in a snazzy hotel for several days, not to mention paying them to perform and renting the venue, AND recording everything on 32-track, the promoter obviously spent a ton of money on it. But apparently money wasn't his main concern, as he's looking forward to doing it again next year. This was the concert I've waited 20 years to see, but thought I never would. Can't wait for the next one!
I'm sure if I thought about it long enough, I could do the "six degrees of separation" thing and link some of it back to the Dan, but it's too early in the morning for parlor games, so for now I'll just recommend http://perso.club-internet.fr/calyx as a good place for the uninitiated to start.
Posted by: Steveedan, Peg - a chord with a flatted 5th is usually referred to as a "sharp 11th". Since I am a keyboard player, am I disqualified from answering this question?
Hello Monsieur de Plume -- How was Seattle? I saw Yes play at the Universal Ampitheatre last Friday night. With Rick Wakeman. They were absolutely great.
I hope that the Chicago Dan Fest is great. When is it again?
The Pretzel Logic band is playing in Hermosa Beach, California on Saturday August 31st, from 11 AM to 2 PM right at the Hermosa Beach pier. It's free, and it's an arts and crafts festival. Clearing trends are being forcasted for next weekend. Come one, come all.
Steveedan
Posted by: norm, Paige - I have to admit, I was never much of a Led Zeppelin fan - heard them at WAY too many teenage parties back in the day, combined with my natural distrust of anything TOO popular. Somehow Pink Floyd, The Beatles and The Who slipped under that particular radar, but in general, dang, was I a music snob back then! I've since lightened up on that sort of thing, and I can now hear LZ and appreciate the art of it, Page's production, etc.
Still, the only album of theirs I own is the fourth one, mainly because of the guest spot by the late, great Sandy Denny. She's easily my favorite female singer ever, and a great songwriter too. A lot of these modern-day Mariah wannabes could learn a thing or three from her: namely, knock off with the cheesy gymnastics and just sing the damn song! That stuff is bad enough when a guitarist does it, but a singer? No, thanks!
Anyway, a friend had an extra ticket to see Crimson at the Universal Amphitheatre last year, so I went. We had sixth row center seats, and when we got there, we encountered some guy selling SECOND row tickets, so for a trade plus $ we upgraded a few rows up. Crimson was great (Fripp was even smiling and laughing throughout the set!), but I went into it with no expectations from JPJ - figured he might play a few LZ tunes, a few solo pieces, whatever. But he came out, and he was really excellent. It was a three piece (a drummer, plus a bassist who doubled on 12-string acoustic for a song or two), while Jonesy sang and played bass, 8-string bass, mandolin, ukelele and pedal steel (without pedals - going more for a rock sound than C&W). And from where we sat, we could see how much fun he was having, which added to the fun. Really good stuff, I'd gladly go see him again.
Posted by: Paige, Santa BarbaraNorm...
No I didn't see John Paul Jones...However, I spoke with him briefly when he was being interviewed by a local radio station here in Santa Barbara.
When you consider what he has accomplished after LZ, I'm convinced that he hasn't received the recognition that he deserved. Of course, this is in part, due to his personality. He seems not to be too interested in self-promotion.
I did ask him how he felt about being left out of No Quarter. He repeated (in a joking way) that he would make sure that the others had his phone number next time.
The station played some tracks from one of his CDs. It sounded pretty good.
If you had a chance to view the No Quarter performance (I recall that it was on VH1 or something. I thought it was amazing. The energy was very high and the string section really added to the whole atmosphere. I was particularly impressed with the young drummer they had. You could almost sense his energy through the screen.
Great performance.
-Paige
Posted by: norm, Paige - did you see John Paul Jones when he opened for King Crimson last year?
Posted by: oleander, oooooRoy--A+. Now come over here and get your extra credit.
hoops--happy move to you. Am crushed that I won't be in Chi for DanFest.
Posted by: Peg, embarassedummm -- sorry, musicians. I meant flatted FIFTH!
Posted by: Peg (yes it is my real name), Surrounded by guitarists (i.e., heaven)Hoops, I feel better about naming my car Kid Charlemagne ("is there gas in the...") now that I know you named your computer and related paraphernalia after Steely Dan Songs.
Hey, 3rd Career's guitarist and I have a musical question for all you guitar players. What do you call a chord with a flatted fourth?
Finally, one more question: is anybody out there following Vanessa Carlton, John Mayer, and all those other "new" folks that Rolling Stone says do "hypermelodic" music? What are your thoughts about them?
Well it's time for KimPossible and I must NOT miss it! Happy day!
Posted by: Scott Iwen, An additional place to check for the Glengarry Glen Ross CD online is http://half.ebay.com/ At last check I saw almost a dozen copies of this excellent album for sale at the website, four of which were listed for under $2 each.
Posted by: hoops, Paige…Thanks for bringing up the Led Zep CD. I had mixed views it.
Just a reminder—until I'm blue in the book—anything as long as it's vaguely tangentially related to Steely Dan on some level is related. It could be by virtue of it being simply musical, humorous, literary, social-political. Really, no apologies needed for discussing Led Zep. If you holding back musical posts since they don't include direct references to Steely Dan, then hold back no more—let them spew.
Thanks for the heads-up, Bill. I'm going to check it out.
If you are in the Chicago area this weekend, be sure to get a copy of the "Chicago Reader." Bob Blum put in a sixth of page ad for next week's Danfest. Pretty cool! Thanks Bob! You are a great Danfest host!
Hard to believe that summer break ends today and first day of classes start on Monday. This semester, I'm teaching a Graduate seminar, "Digital Media for Architects." Very excited about it. As always, I work in some quotes from Steely Dan into my course. I'll keep you posted.
In the 1980s, I had a couple of computer lab grants from Apple and IBM. When networking the computers, all the Macs, LaserWriters, ImageWriters, and AppleTalk'ed PCs would be named after Steely Dan songs. This was when the U of Illinois was on IBM's BITNET and that was the limits of Email. (I was JIMMCKAY@UIUC.BITNET.) Internet hostnames weren't typical like today and this lab was just a LAN. So if you would go to Apple's Chooser on my lab's LAN, all the Macs, ImageWriters, etc., would be named after Steely Dan songs. And then for a 0.1% bonus on exams, there was the Steely question. Finally, we had set of Steely Dan cassettes to play on the lab's boombox. And besides learning about computer graphics applications, the students learned about Steely Dan.
What a glorious time…
h
Posted by: I Know, it to be true.....Bill- It's 100% the same woman who sang back up with Steely Dan.
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale, Yes Bill I think it is her.
Ayanna
Posted by: Paige, Santa BarbaraSorry...
I know that this is a Steely Dan guestbook. But I must mention...
The "No Quarter" CD by Page and Plant is simply amazing. If you haven't listened to it lately, you should.
I'm only sorry that they didn't invite John Paul Jones to the gig. (As he stated..."I'll make sure that both of you have my phone number next time"). He is probably the most talented of the three remaining.
The Indian mix with some of the cuts is exceptional. As far as I'm concerned, LZ lost their edge (with a few exceptions) after their first album.
No Quater is truly a great offering. It is particularly ture of "Kashmir." To this day, I still think it is the greatest song written by LZ.
-Paige
Posted by: Bill, PittsburghSubj: Michelle Wiley in 9-11 book
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:19:30 EDT
From: BillMaruca@aol.com
There is a first-person account of the 9-11 attacks in a book that just came out which is excerpted on MSN. The extended quote is from a musician named Michelle Wiley who plays piano and coaches professional singers. Anyone know if this is SD's Michelle Wiley from the '96 tour?
http://www.msnbc.com/news/796659.asp?pne=msn
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA
I posted this a while ago and decided to throw it up here one more time seeing as how the talk has tilted towards playing/transcribing Steely Dan tunes:
Has anyone done their own transcription of "Fall of '92"? If so I'd be interested in hearing/seeing what anyone has cooked up as a possible interpretation so as to aid in my own transcription when I sit down and try to decipher it all (between working on my own stuff).
Also: any takes on "The Second Arrangement" would be welcome as that's a contender for encores when we get to that point (I throw the odd cover in from time to time; "One-Trick Pony," "Space Cowboy," and "All Blues" are some examples).
"Broadway duchess / darling if you only knew / half as much as / everybody thinks you do..." - Steely Dan, 'I Got The News'
Randy/NIGHTFLY62@aol.com
Posted by: Moeb, Shampoo BananaHey Hoops!
Sorry I missed hooking up with you on your last week in the big cities. Maybe see you Labor Day weekend. About the Bears, I picked up a part time job pouring beer at the games for the season. Yes, I will be there Dec 29th, for the night game, drinking, I mean selling MGD for the masses. Actually, I live on Florida Ave about 3/4 from the stadium, so maybe I'll open up the front lawn for parking. Thanks for the hint on GGGR, I shall pick up where you left off and scour the bins on occasion.
Bruce
Posted by: Fingers, UK***************** PLUGTIME -PLUGTIME - PLUGTIME *************************
THE DANNY STEEL ORCHESTRA:
The UK's finest purveyors of all things Dan-ish are appearing at
THE RAYNERS HOTEL
Imperial Drive
Village Way East
Rayners Lane
Harrow
Middlesex, UK
tel: 020 8866 1666
on
SATURDAY AUGUST 24th at 8.30pm
2 hours of the Dan...ALL LIVE...so coooooool it's HOT!
With Mr."Widdly-widdly Carlton-schmarlton" Glynn Davies on lead plank, backed by the 11 strong L'Orchestre Formidable
DSO...clearly 'Dan
Hope to see you there...oceans are not admissable obstacles to full attendance! Production of a Cunard or Imperial Airways ticket stub entitles you to FREE VIP admission!
www.dannysteelorchestra.co.uk
"close your eyes and you'll be there, it's everything they say..."
Posted by: hoops, Peg and others interested in GGGR…
If need be, I have extra copies of GGGR, which you may know I rescue from budget bins since it is such an amazing CD. One of my desert island discs. Believe it or not, the most common place I find copies is in the budget bins at Walgreen's and the midwest hypermarket chain, Meijer's. Through the years, I have found well over a dozen at each chain.
Roy: The irony is not lost on me that I am moving away as the Bears visit my former home town. Urbana-Champaign is about 110,000 and 4 X 5 miles, so I guess I am glad to be missing weekend traffic jams every weekend for the Bears and Illini.
O. … Good to see you and hope all is well
h
Posted by: Roy.Scam, Oleander~ Regarding the variation among Oooos in "IGY", my thesis is that Ms. Austin's Oooo is more Rippertonian in nature and seems to originate from the tweeter, which, in most people, is located near the larynx. The Fagen Oooo (which is almost an Ooooowa) is multichanneled and comes in equal parts from the soul and the nose.
Hoops~ I just returned from Chicago and all the media were discussing the relocation of the Bears' home games from Chicago to east central Illinois, approximately to from whence you came, I believe. Did you arrange a Trading Spaces thing with da Bearss?
Posted by: Peg, neath that silent moonOleander: I guess I'll pass on your offer for a copy of that album for now. Company is in town this week and things are verry busy here. I can check for it at the local used CD shop (where I found Glengary Glenn Ross for $5). Tis very neat that a woman covers IGY!
Hoops: Aw, thanks so for the info about Marian McPartland. She is so neato. Don't you like her playing better than the younger crowd of pianists (Joanne Brackeen, Keith Jarrett, etc.)? Have a happy move!
Oh -- we gotta add this to the list of finest Fagen lines: "I sat back in my easy chair -- it was not my own!" (From Everything You Did)
Posted by: hoops (again), ChicagoLot's of great stuff while I was away. I need to ctach up on "Nightfly" "ooo's" and Angel's review and that Carlton thing that Big fan mentioned, just to name a few.
Regarding µ's inquiry about Live365. As you know, things went to a $5/month per station royaty fee, this month. I hoping that they don't go out of business altogether, and royalties are getting to the point where maybe some of the RFD stations get pared back. Three people have informed me that they will be unable to keep running their stations. It will be a real loss to us all if things keep going the way they are.
More laters.
h
Posted by: hoops, ChicagoGeez…it's been too long. Just finally finished moving my residence from East Central Illinois to Chicago. Not sure which was more harrowing—sorting through 11 years of accumulated acquisitions or driving a 20' rental truck filled with it all 150 miles to Chicago (normally I drive a subcompact).
One thing that made the drive to Chicago all the better was catching this past Sunday's edition of "Marian McPartland's Piano Jazz" on NPR. Her guest was Monica Mancini, daughter of—who else—Henry Mancini. She was discussing her album of Henry Mancini songs. First of all, these great Mancini songs brought back memories of the 2000 tour and "Pete's Pad" ("Hank's Pad," as Fagen dubbed it) from "Peter Gun." It gave me a huge buzz. And of course, it reminded me of my childhood in the 1960s--Mancini was heard in all the great movies, just for starters.
On top of that, McPartland and Monica Mancini explained the history of Mancini classics and offered up many historical facts I did not know–some things from Peter Gunn (but no mnetion of Steely Dan), "Days of Wine and Roses," and "Moon River" ("my huckleberry friend" has no meaning according to Monica). Both gave amazing piano performances and Monica has an amazing voice. I can't help but wonder if Monica isn't a inspiration to Caolyn Leonhart.
Finally, McPartland's Grande Dame personna always reminds me of the late Maggi McCoy–"La Grande Dame de Dandom"–who happened to have passed away five years ago this past weekend. So all in all, the radio show was a huge buzz for me.
For more info on "Piano Jazz," check out http://www.pianojazz.org
Speaking of huge buzzes, the Labor Dan Danfest and Katy Lied are publicized in this week's upcoming " Chicago Reader" (sorta akin to the "The Village Voice"). So that's damn exciting as well.
So I was thinking today, when I moved away from Chicago, "The Nightfly" was just out. When I moved to my most recent residence in Urbana, the New York Rock and Soul Revue CD was just coming out. So much has happened. Simply amazing.
Hope everyone is well.
h
Posted by: Katy Lied, ChicagoGreetings Dan Fans,
Chicago's one and only Steely Dan Revue Katy Lied will be performing on
Saturday August 24th beginning with an afternoon show at Campbell Street
Park on Vail Street in Arlington Heights, IL. The show begins at 12 noon and
ends at 3:00 pm. Later that evening we will then move indoors to Harry's of
Arlington Heights also on Vail Street beginning at 9:00 pm. We hope to see
you there! Visit www.katylied.tv for more info on the band and upcoming
shows.
Katy Lied Band
P.S. As Hoops mentioned in a previous post we hope to see you at the Chicago Danfest/Jazzfest on Friday August 30th where we will be performing from 9:00pm until Midnight at Excalibur right in downtown Chicago!
Posted by: Mr.Sticks, Hello Dan Fans!
Join Steely Fan Band THIS FRIDAY NIGHT..August 23,2002 at 8:30pm for our annual end of summer beach party show at the STUDIO CAFE in beautiful Newport Beach,Ca. 100 Main Street..At the Balboa Pier!
Showtime is 8:30pm and admission is FREE!
Come out and here LIVE Steely Dan music and party at the beach!
Thanks,
Mr.Sticks
http://www.steelyfanband.com
Posted by: C, Delta AirlinesCincinnati! I have been there!
Posted by: oleander, polishing the battle applePeg--have a great gig. Third career. Nice. Hey, I was just trying to induce a bad school dream of the type so common in neurotic individuals like myself. The album's name is "Street of Dreams," and is a collection of covers which includes "I.G.Y." She has bearutiful pipes, and the whole thing is lovely to listen to. You might look for it used, or if you really are committed to your assignment, I can send you a copy of the tune.
Pete baby--to paraphrase Shakira, this is my territory too. Have at it. Love the idea of them making it safe to approach the point of no return.
Posted by: Peg, Walkin between da raindropsHey, Oleander, I don't want no homework. But I did try your assignment and cannot complete it. The only recording I have of Street of Dreams is sung by Jimmy Scott and is on the Glengarry Glen Ross CD. Sooooory, teacha. Unless you want to send me a copy?
Regarding free music on the Net: Ya know, I guess if the artist does not mind, it's okay. What gets me is the whole recording business makes no sense. For example, compare it to book publishing. The publisher, like the recording company, has no guarantee the book will do well, yet sinks the money into the book and gives the writer a bit of cash. The writer makes more if the book does well. The publisher does not make the writer wait for her money until they've sold enough books! Yet the record companies make the artists' profits pay off all their "investment" in the record first, before for the artist gets any money. (This is not including advances, I know, but lots of people don't get much of one, if they do.)
Well, Pivotal Pete, as for SD characters' character, my thoughts have always been that they exist to create a story. No story is interesting without drama, so there ya go. Drama with guns, a young runaway, a guy out of rehab, a fella with kinky hair.....it's drama.
Speaking of, please forgive me all, but if others can do shameless self promotion, I guess I shall, too. 3rd Career's professional debut will be Sunday September 29 at Jazz in the Park in Forest Park, a suburb of Cincinnati. We are opening for my friend, Sheila Marshall, a.k.a. "Ms Jaz," so we'll play only 30 minutes. We will not be the entire band that night (just my piano and our vocalist, a Venezuelan named Yenny). But if you like Steely Dan and jazz standards, you'll like 3rd Career's tunes (they're all original). Come on out, all you Dan fans!
Posted by: angel, Whatevah: Finally found a copy of Pinetop's Performance and managed to view a bit of the show. What a great player and a true pleasure to watch in action, even at 85 years old. You get the definite feeling from how he plays, that he may be one of Fagen's early influences. The song in question was definitely not any version of Becker/Fagen's "Ida Lee", but I believe that it may indeed be where the title of their demo came from. Another piece of trivia I learned about Pinetop, is that he was born in Belzoni, MS. Another Fagen link.
I recently visited the RRHOF in Cleveland and for any who are thinking about visiting it, my review is here:
http://www.angelfire.com/mb2/bart/angel5.html
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaOleander -
I was an English major! Dissecting details in literary works is what I was trained to do ... down to the smallest Oooo. (Seems that attention to detail is part of the SD spirit.) Thanks for the assignment -- will try to have my paper handed in next week.
Paige (and everyone) -
In the same "literary criticism" vein, I've felt for quite a long time that nearly ALL SD songs (group and solo, and including SVN) share a common theme: "People getting carried away" is how I put it. Usually you have a story (often first person, but with some variation) of people letting passions and beliefs (drugs, sex, politics, religion, prejudice ...) get out of whack and therein lies the story. I fact, I have trouble thinking of a lyric that doesn't fit that overall theme.
Suspect one of the reasons I enjoy SD so much is that it's a safe way to approach the "point of no return" without crossing the bridge.
Comments? (Sorry, Oleander, I warned you.)
Posted by: oleander, pick up your pencilsPeg & Pete--This week's homework in Nuance 201: In 500 words or less, compare and contrast the "Oooo" in "I.G.Y." as performed by Mr. Fagen and by Patti Austin on "Street of Dreams." (Extra credit: discuss performances of same by Rhythm Logic, Take 6, and the Berklee School of Music Commencement SD Tribute)
Posted by: DrMµ, TejasIt is my belief that the efforts of Michael Greene, RIAA, Clear Channel, and AOL Time Warner Ted Turner Whatever to squelch musical downloads and nip internet radio in the bud (or at least restrict it) is not in the best interest of the artist, especially the independent one...and is probably hurting CD sales. Artists, not record companies should be in control. Here's an interesting article:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/business/1538086
Hoopsie: Will Live 365 surivive? I enjoy your broadcasts when I can on Dandom radio. I believe there was a "settlement" with RIAA for $0.07/1000 listeners/song or something like that...but, many simulcasts from sports and radio (ex. KMTT in Seattle), and Yahoo radio are being shut down...It's seems like a desperate stab at control for the big guys, while EVERYONE in the end loses, especially independent artists and consumers stuffed into a can...I'l just hum Elvis Costello's "Radio Radio..."
Posted by: The Wicked Librarian, Berkely CAWhat's up with River Sound? The Postal Service returned my letters to the Mssrs. with an expired forwarding address on the yellow sticker.
Thanks,
The Wicked Librarian
Posted by: Steveedan, Hi Hoops -
Thank you for fixing my multiple posting mistake. Are you on vacation soon? Hey, one of the guitarists in my Pretzel Logic band, Mark, has a copy of the Glengary Glen Ross soundtrack. I heard a lot of it, and it is great ! Hoops, you are really on to something here. Guitarist Mark wants to have us play one of the songs (I am not sure which one, it's an instrumental, and may be the first track on the CD) as a "warm-up" first song of the set before our singers take the stage kind of thing. Very lush and complex harmonies there.
This is the kind of thing that you DON'T play at a rock 'n' roll club, but, it would go over very well at an upscale jazz club, where the guests are in dinner jackets and gowns.
We are aware that we must tailor our set lists for the different types of venues that we will be playing. Lately the majority of venues have been the rock type, but that will change over time and then this "varied set list" approach will come into play.
By The Way, that "earlandstevee@blowme.com" thing ended up being a virus after all though I can't imagine how earl's name and mine got combined into one "address", so Clas, I guess I must apologize for accusing you of this wrongdoing (darn it !!! ha ha.)
Have a great weekend everyone.
Steveedan
Posted by: Steveedan, North of Hermosa Beach, CaliforniaS H A M E L E S S ... P L U G G I N G
The Pretzel Logic band is playing at the Fiesta Hermosa Festival on Saturday, August 31, from 11 AM to 2 PM. We were originally scheduled to play on Monday Sept. 2, but we are going to be playing Saturday instead, ... so, please be aware of this change (well ... those of you who might attend).
This festival occurs every year and is also an arts and crafts event. This will be fun for the whole family, and it is right at the Hermosa Beach Pier. The main stage is located on Pier Avenue right at the beach. There is no admission fee. Come one, come all.
Thank you for your support.
Steveedan (F, BL, MD, & KM for PL)
Posted by: Steveedan, Hi Mark of Boston !!! How have you been man ?!? Tell me what's new. Again, thanks for the heads up on that signed Pat Metheny J-card sized booklet for his most recent CD. I called a bunch of those record stores and got someone to send one to me. What a cool thing to let me in on. We will play The Boston Rag in your honor, Sir.
Dennis - you've got my curiosity up ... I will e-mail you right away.
Randy - good to see you too. I hope all is well.
SHAMELESS PLUGGING (A change in the Festival schedule) in my next post ...
Steveedan
Posted by: Randy, Hey Hoopsy.
Radio Free Dandom is AWESOME!!!! So is the other station with Guestbook players. Tonight I heard Miles Davis, Chris Potter, Walter Becker and Horace Silver. Cool stuff.
Randy
Posted by: Boston Rag, Ivy & FOWBig Fan & Angel - The Ivy cover of "Only a Fool Would Say That" is the same one that is on the MM&I soundtrack. Adam Schlesinger is in the band Ivy and Fountains of Wayne. Adam, IMHO is the X generation's Donald Fagen. The man is a pop music genius. The first 2 Fountains of Wayne albums are two of the best rock albums of the 90's. Funny lyrics and killer hooks all over the place. Hmmmm, what other band is like that?
Mark in Boston
Posted by: Big Fan, At Work - 85 more gone today Tell your congressmen we need to go back to the moonMan,
How can I get to California today to see this great show with Larry Carlton:
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/entertainment/3868325.htm
Angel - yeah I wondered if it's the same cut or different one. Sounds like there might be different singers involved. I liked the Me, Myself & Irene soundtrack with the other covers, esp. the Ben Folds Five one of Barrytown.
Posted by: Dennis - Really, Seriously Stevee, e-mail me at dennis@guitaramps.com and I will send you this most curious e-mail that I recieved on Tuesday.
Posted by: Steveedan, Paige (who is northwest of Hollywood ...) --
Hi there. Nice to see you posting again. I agree, that mostly it's the down and drugged out (or heading there quickly), but that's OK.
Earl (the Pearl) - It can be really confusing with the chord naming game. After I formed my new band, the Pretzel Logic band, one of our guitar players, who was a music teacher at the now closed but famous (in musician circles) Dick Grove Music Academy told me why a lot of the chords that I "named" were not accurate. I also took a long and thoughtful look at Howard Wright's site. He has put very useful information there. So Earl (and thanks for you recent e-mail buddy), if you want to lesson some of the confusion with the chord naming thing, check out Howard's site. It is a great source of music theory and other information. Howard is primarily a guitarist (I think), so his approach would be great for you (because you too are a guitarist, right?).
So there you have it.
Hi Hoops. I hope that all is well with you, and, ...
Hi to Dennis and the Katy Liars !!! You have my permission to use that if you wish Dennis.
Take care, see you all soon.
Steveedan
Posted by: Paige, Santa BarbaraI remember reading (I think it was on that wonderful and educational "Oleander" site) that a few people think that "Jack of Speed" is merely a song about someone who obsessed with roller-blading. I find it impossible to see this track as that innocent. I think most agree that it is a song about drugs. For me, it is one of the less cryptic tracks from the duo.
Beyond the themes of the individual songs on 2VN (some obvious, some not so obvious), there seems to be a general theme to the entire CD. Perhaps not every track speaks to this theme, but most seem to at least refer to it.
It seems to me that the boys are referring to the duality of man (generally) and manic-depression (specifically). I mean, not every song on 2VN, but certainly almost every track has some reference (even if it is only a line or two) to two sides of the human condition...our angst and joy...our not knowing quite what to do.
Just a thought.
-Paige
"I'm way into nothing special"
Posted by: angel, Big Fan. Do you think that might be her recording from the Me, Myself and Irene Soundtrack?
Posted by: W1P, No more space? A Jefferson Starship tribute that has no website and that I've never heard of?
Posted by: Big Fan, At Work - not laid off yetIvy and Fountains Of Wayne will release cover of "Only a Fool Would Say That"
http://www.billboard.com/billboard/daily/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1599172
Who would have though Steely Dan would ever have so many of their songs coverd by other artists. The list gets longer every year and really amazes me.
Posted by: Clas, For hours? I have been occupied since 1932.
Posted by: Earl, DelawarePeg: No problem...nice to help dispell some of the misinformation that has been given regarding chord theory.
Stevee: I get the feeling that it's mainly musicians who haven't studied theory that tend to get confused about the maj7/m7/dom7 thing. And it's something that definitely can confuse...I haven't taken a music theory course, but it took some serious study to learn what different chord nomenclature stood for. As was pointed out by Colin, one of the wonderful things about chords is when you start finding out the relationships between different chords. It can keep a player occupied for hours.
Earl
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaHey Peg-
I've also loved that IGY utterance after "...eternally free, yes, and eternally young"! (I've heard it as "Oooooo")
(IMO, some of the best of all SD lyrics are on Nightfly. Some of the funniest ironic twists in the whole Becker/Fagen oeuvre.)
Posted by: Steveedan, "Date: Tues, August 13, 2002, 16:43:15, Posted by: "Dennis"
Earl and Stevee, what's up with the e-mail? earlandstevee@blowme.com"
... This can't be Dennis. Sounds more like Clas. ...
... and the retort is ... NO!, ... Blow ME !!! ... OK?
(You see, ... both Earl and I gave Clas a "corrective" post about stuff he wrote on the St. Al's guestbook. Mine was about Israel, and Earl's was about the press in America and who has the right stories on both issues. I do not send Clas e-mails, so, I have no idea why he would ask about this ... Ah, Clas, ... poor guy ... no hard feelings though.)
Howard and Earl - you are completely correct about your chord voicings. That is exactly how I learned it, and by the way, you don't have to be a heavy duty jazz musician to learn this stuff. There are tons of music theory books you can get where this stuff is covered in the first couple of chapters ... or ...
you can go on Howard Wright's site and get the news there. To find Howard's great site, go to the official Steely Dan page, go to the links page and look for the link for Howard's guitar tabs. From there you can find very useful chord theory facts.
Howard, I will be in touch soon.
W1P - thanks for the comiseratory (?) mention about our not being at Beachstock. The simple fact is that I found out about that festival too late. Ms. Conte really wanted us there, but had no more space, so we will be at her Fiesta Hermosa from 11 AM to 2 PM on Labor Day Monday, 9/2/02.
I wonder if the lead singer for the Jethro Tull tribute band wears tights and a protective crotch cup like Ian Anderson used to do? That should be ... weird. Pink'sagonna rock the joint.
The Pretzel Logic band will play on Sept. 2nd in Hermosa Beach, CA. Come and check us out. We play a 3 hour set (with a bathroom break in the middle somewhere ...)
See you all later.
Steveedan
Posted by: oleander, how about Smog, a tribute to Air?Slowly I turned....
Danilo Perez is a blazing HOT Panamanian pianist. He appears on Wayne Shorter's recent "Footprints Live." He has played with numerous other jazz/ Latin demigods, e.g., Tain Watts, Joe Lovano, Ruben Blades, Brian Blade, Jack De Johnette, Dizzy Gillespie, Dave Liebman, Chris Potter.... Very few degrees of Dan separation....
www.daniloperez.com for more....
Posted by: W1P, My favorite would be "No" a tribute to Yes
Posted by: norm, tribute band namesSomeone at the MOJO board started a thread about cool names for tribute bands. My current favorites are Proxy Music and Not The Hoople.
Posted by: Peg, home workingMany thanks to Colin, Earl, and Howard! I thought G7 meant as Howard said, and the guitarist I'm working with thought it meant with the F#.
So therein was some trauma, but then again, I understood the logic of the F#. Then along came the 3rd problem.
Colin -- I'm writing all m7 chords with major 3rd as 'no 3rd' for now until I can agree with the guitarist on this matter. As you all probably suspected, yes, I've had music theory, but it was sketchy, and classical only. Jazz was verbotin when I was a kid.
I've printed out your answers here, and will go over them with Mister Guitarist soon. You've helped a lot. Thanks again!
Posted by: Dennis, Earl and Stevee, what's up with the e-mail? earlandstevee@blowme.com
Posted by: W1P, Long Beach, CAIt's a shame that the organizers of "Beachstock" did not see fit to include Pretzel Logic in this weekend's ultimate tribute band festival. However, the Queen Mary in Long Beach will be the scene of some of the best LA tribute bands going (even if there is one glaring ommission). Below is the schedule. For more info log on to http://www.conteproductions.com
Saturday, August 17, 2002.
Bob Dylan (Highway 61 Revisited)
CSN&Y (4 Way Street)
Santana (Soul Sacrifice)
Yes (Roundabout)
The Who (The Who Show)
Journey (Escape)
Pink Floyd (Which One's Pink?)
Led Zeppelin (Led Zepagain featuring Swan).
Sunday, August 18, 2002
Jethro Tull (Aqualung)
Jefferson Starship (Ride the Tiger)
Grateful Dead (Cubensis)
Heart(Barracuda)
The Beatles (Revolution)
Aerosmith (Rocks)
The Doors (Peace Frog)
Rolling Stones (Sticky Fingers)
"It was a cruel song, but fair" Roger Waters, commenting on "You Gotta Be Crazy," Los Angeles, California 4/26/75.
Posted by: Dennis, ChicagoStevee,
We have Keys, Drums, Bass, Guitar, Percussion, Sax, Trumpet, Trombone, 2 Female Backup singers. Our keyboard player Bob does most of the singing and I sing backup on most of the songs and I sing lead on 3 songs, Home At Last, Daddy Don't Live and Reelin'. I sort of wish we had another guitarist. It would make things a bit easier on me I think. Finding guitarists that "play well with others" is kind of tough in Chicago though. Before I joined, the guys in the band had a hell of a time finding someone who would do the homework and that had a good attitude. I don't mind being the only guitarist though. It's fun!
Dennis
Posted by: Earl, DelawareRoger that, Howard. It's early over here. Replace IV with VII.
Earl
Posted by: Howard, Peg - you said the G chord had a B natural and an F natural right? Sounds like a G7 ("G dominant 7th"). These dom 7 chords use a flat 7th - Gmaj7 uses the natural 7th.
I pretty much agree with what Earl just wrote, but for some reason he wrote "IV" when I think he meant the 7th of the scale (VII).
Here's what I know:
G7 = G major triad + flat 7th = 1st + maj 3rd + 5th + flat 7th = G B D F
Gmaj7 = G major triad + 7th = 1st + maj 3rd + 5th + 7th = G B D F#
Gm7 = G minor triad + flat 7th = 1st + min 3rd + 5th + flat 7th = G Bb D F
Gmin/maj7 = G minor triad + 7th = 1st + min 3rd + 5th + 7th = G Bb D F#
If there is no 3rd, G7(no 3rd) is what you usually write, as others have already mentioned. Good example of a 7(no 3rd) chord in action: on the line "here at the dude ranch" in Aja, you have F#7(no 3rd) on "dude" and D#7(no 3rd) on "ranch". If you play these 7 chords *with* the 3rd, it just doesn't sound right. Needless to say, the "complete" songbook has the chords as F#7 and D#7 (well it actually has the whole song a semitone higher than it should be, but that's another story...).
Howard
Posted by: Earl, DelawarePeg: Sorry for going off on a tangent on you. I thought you said an A, which makes the 2nd. You say it uses a natural B...then it's the dominant seventh of G. B natural is the major third of Gmajor.
Short lesson in music theory (ignore if you already know this)
Minor seventh refers to a I, flat III, V, and a flatted IV (Gm7 is G, Bb, D, and F).
Major seventh refers to a I, III, V, and IV (Gmaj7 is G, B, D, and F#).
Dominant seventh refers to a I, III, V, and a flatted IV (G7 is G, B, D, and F).
If it contains a minor III and a IV (G, Bb, D, and F#), then it's a G(min)maj7. That occurs on rare occasions, but the first three are the most common you'll encounter.
Hope this helped.
Earl
Posted by: Earl, DelawarePeg: G7 contains an F, not an F#. There could be two ways to write it. First, you could simply call it G7(no3rd), because there is no reason in that chord to classify it as a minor. However, I also believe that the rest of the instrumentation should be taken into account when assigning a chord name. For instance, if the melody passes through the minor 3rd while the chords is being played, then it's probably worth calling it a Gm7(no3). I've always thought of (no3) chords as cheap, but from what I can tell on the 2VN video Walter uses them quite often as a rhythm part.
The real stinker is that I have the notation software Coda Allegro (~$100 on Ebay), and it's pretty decent except for two chord-related things. First, you can only input the chords they have defined in the software, which leaves out such beauties as the (add9) chord. Also, the fingerboard diagrams that it will automatically calculate for you and input into your score are non-negotiable. That is pretty frustrating, because there are so many different possibilities for chord voicings that to simply notate a open G (or chromatic G, can't recall which one it defaults to) is often a travesty.
Happy strumming,
Earl
Posted by: Colin, NYCIn the music books I've seen, chords like that are sometimes indicated by the words 'no 3rd' appearing in parens after the chord. Like, Gm7(no 3rd). And if there is no 3rd, it's kind of hard to justify calling it a minor 7th - I think the default would then be G7(no 3rd).
Often though, I will try and determine what, functionally, it WOULD be if the 3rd was included (and you can make an argument that a 3rd of some sort is always implied). Said chord could also conceivably be described as, or be the functional equivalent of a Dm/G - that would technically be D-F-A with a G bass... the only addition being the A, which has a nice relationship (the 2nd or 9th) with the G bass note. With a short extension, that could become Dm7/G, which is really a G9sus.
Chords are cool.
Colin
Posted by: Peg, up too lateA question for all of the guitar-playing Dan-fan musicians out there: What do ya call a chord that has a minor seventh on it, yet does NOT have the minor third in it? Example: You can't call it a Gm7, because it uses a regular b, not a b-flat. Yet you can't call it a G7, because it's got an F, not an F-sharp. Any help would be sooooo appreciated!! :)
Posted by: HeyMike, near ChicagoHi, saw Katy Lied on Saturday night. They sounded better than ever! Dennis was amasing! Anyone within the sound of my voice that has the means to get to Chicago for the danfest on labor day weekend, should!!
It'll be great fun!
Posted by: Peg, Freedonia, land of the brave and freeEarl:
Fagen also sings the best "woo" ever recorded, in: "We'll be eternally free, yes, and eternally young -- woooooo."
It is just bursting with sarcasm, irony, etc......
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaMu -- I'm with you. That changed final chord is a subtle but somehow meaningful moment of genius. Also segues into a great sax solo and fade-out, as Earl mentions.
Another favorite moment in the same vein: The strained voice on the last line/last verse of Babylon Sisters: "...from the point of no return." I don't THINK it's just the (in)famous Fagen whine alone, but a dramatic effect that counters all the bravado earlier in the story of debauchery. [Seems he does it similarly in AIA.]
One wild weekend ends it all ...
Posted by: Earl, DelawareMu: I'll have to confess that I always just considered the ending to "Black Cow" to be just that, an ending. The Dan always has cool endings to songs (Glamour Profession, West of Hollywood, My Rival to name a few of my favs), but I guess that it never struck me that it would mean something. Fagen's pronunciation is always great, and "get outta here" each time has that gritty sound that we've all come to know and love. Kinda like the entire lead vocal of "Throw Back the Little Ones." I'm not sure I could think of another vocalist that would do what Fagen did with that one, as well as many others (My Rival again to name one that stands out to me; gotta love "I was the whiiiiining stranger").
Earl
Posted by: norm, ah, the Armadillo - Zappa and Beefheart recorded Bongo Fury there.
Posted by: sharkdeville, the curbThis could be cool, since Steely Dan played there in '73:
ARMADILLO WORLD HQTRS SAID IT PLANS TO RELEASE OVER 100 HRS OF VIDEO PERFORMANCES OF ZAPPA, VAN MORRISON, WILLIE, WAYLON, RAY CHARLES, FREDDIE KING, BB KING, TAJ MAHAL, COMMANDER CODY, GRAM PARSONS, ETC.
THE EXISTENCE OF THESE VIDEO TAPES WERE ALWAYS DENIED BY ALL INVOLVED... NOW EDDIE WILSON PLANS A BOOK, JIM FRANKLIN A BOOK ON ALL THE POSTERS HE DID PLUS OTHERS, & A CD BOX SET OF VARIOUS PERFORMANCES OF THE 10 YR HISTORY.
Wonder if our boys will try to keep this from seeing the light of day? You know them...
Posted by: Peg, 'tis raining meteorsI know there've been comments on here before by parents proudly passing along Dan fandom to their kids, but...since I have no offspring but songs, I had my own experience with said pride last night. A fine 22-year-old jazz guitarist who's joining my band had never heard Dan music (! really?) and thought Steely Dan was just a person named Dan. So I put on various Dan selections. He was amazed. He absolutely was floored! Went home with all of my Dan CDs (of course I flinched ever so slightly as they left my house, and they better be back soon).
Yeah, another convert, I think. ') I better print Howard's tabs out for him now.....
"Astronomers are always looking up."
Posted by: Yellow Peril, Who is Danilo Perez?????
Posted by: hoops, ChicagoDan Friends and Fiends:
It seems the planets have indeed alligned for a big Wing Ding, Dan Fest in Chicago Labor Day weekend centering around Katy Lied and the Chicago Jazz Fest.
Chicago Dan/JazzFest
F.8.30.02
9:00 p.m.—Midnight
KATY LIED
at the Top-notch Chicago Night Club
featuring great sound...
Excalibur
632 N. Dearborn St. at Ontario
Sa.8.31.02
Evening
WAYNE SHORTER
at
Chicago Jazz Fest
on Chicago's Front Lawn by the Lake
Grant Park
Su.9.1.02
Afternoon
DANILO PEREZ
Evening
PHIL WOODS
at
Chicago Jazz Fest
on Chicago's Front Lawn by the Lake
Grant Park
Volley Ball at North Avenue Beach? Other club hopping? A Jam session at some agreed location? Other activities as discussed.
Sign up for the Chicago Danfest list by emailing majordomo@dandom.com and having only
subscribe chicago
in the body of the message.
If you plan on attending, please email hoops@dandom.com if you haven't already done so.
It will be a major affair.
hoops
Posted by: hoops@dandom.com, Baltimore D.C. Dan Fans are planning
Countdown to Ecstasy VI
Saturday, August 31, 2002
featuring
Dan Fan Jam Session as
Dr. Wu's 11th Hour Memorial Orchestra
&
An Amazing Crab Feast
Email the great host of this most active Dan Fan Fest group,, Steve Preactor at spreactor@yahoo.com if you need more info and/or plan to attend.
Also, sign up for the Count Down to Ecstasy / Baltimore-D.C. Danfest list by emailing majordomo@dandom.com and having only
subscribe baltdc
in the body of the message.
Posted by: DrMµ, ...it's almost as if Fagen is pleading "get outta here" the first two times...it's a direct order the last time around...
Posted by: DrMµ, TejasEarl: I alway felt that the deviation in chords at the end of the final chorus of Black Cow in contrast with previous choruses represented an epiphany in the psyche of the narrator. He transmµtes from emotional victim/crutch/enabler to liberated disdain. Note the subtle extra emphasis on "...and get outta here." Forget a Grammy; how 'bout an Oscar for Mr. Fagen in the Best Phrasing category...
Posted by: hoops, I don't know where I''m at anymoreSorry to be so scarce...it's moving time and geezuz, I keep asking, "why do keep all this shit?" A lot of stuff to get rid of.
I'm a sucky musician, if I were to be even called that. So I am simply awed at the music discussion. But know that I'm very glad to see it and try and keep up with it.
Speaking of Broadway Steve and the GB compilation, you know B'way Steve has been featured on several different tracks played on RFD2, Dandom's radio station version of the GB. Go to http://www.dandom.com/radiofreedandom for more info. The setlist rotates through every three hours and B'way Steve has at least two tracks.
Speaking of which, you know, those of you getting exposure on the GB CD, should get their songs on RFD2. Drop me a line and your stuff will get on, jk 'spech.
h
Posted by: Steveedan, For those of you who might be interested, BwaySteve is featured on the Steely Knives CD. Steve covers The Caves Of Altamira and does a great job. In fact, because of his coice of style and approach to the material, his cover is the only one where I don't have the knee jerk reaction to immediately compare his version to the original. If you don't have Steely Knives, you should check Steve out ...
and while your at it check out Howard Wright's original tune, and my band Pretzel Logic's version of Babylon Sisters.
Howard - I left a message for you at St. Al's. E-mail me.
Dennis - I am sure that you already know that band personnel changes just comes with the territory. I would be curious though to know what your instrumentation is.
Pretzel Logic band consists of drums, bass, keyboards, 2 guitars, 3 saxes, 1 trumpet (who also playes flugelhorn and valve trombone), a lead male singer, and 2 female backing singers. We have been considering adding a third female backing singer and also a percussionist, but, the band is already fairly large, so, maybe for the really high paying gigs we will do that.
Dennis (again) - I agree with you about the continuing learning process for Steely Dan music. I have been perfecting their music since I was in high school (over 20 years ago), but in the past year and a half, through a combination of my meanderings on the internet and more recently with the band, my level of perfection has raised considerably.
I have found that it is easier to learn new things and get better with an open mind. The "holding one's ground" argumentative stance just seems to make the process harder and take longer.
That's it for now. Have a great weekend everyone !!!
Steveedan
Posted by: Earl, DelawareLWO...I'll be down at the Danfest in Balt/DC that weekend. Wish I could afford to take the trip out to Chicago...it sounds like a lot of fun.
Earl
Posted by: Earl, DelawareSteve: One suggestion, just because I've seen Phil Keaggy (Christian rock artist) and heard of others doing this. Invest in a loop/delay machine. On a number of songs Keaggy would start by beating out a rhythm on his acoustic, loop that, so it gives a kind of drum track. Then he lays down one or two rhythm layers and loops them as well. Finally he then solos and/or sings over the whole mix. It really builds the sound up. You could try doing that, and that way you could have the different parts you would want to add. Plus you wouldn't lose too much of the acoustic ambiance that you want to carry at a coffeehouse or wherever. But your take sounds pretty interesting where your playing strictly acoustic. Must be tough to learn to sing the parts and play some of the intricate comping rhythms.
Just thought I'd throw out that idea in case you were looking...
Earl
Posted by: bwaySteve, working all weekendFor me the guitar part is background for the vocal. Songs like Black Cow, FM, Babylon Sisters and others are so instrumental driven they present a problem for my type of adaptation.I have a medely of Babylon Sisters and FM which I rarely play because I feel I'm taking too much license with the material.The challenge often is how to imply the instrumental parts with the simple comping technique I use.I often wish I had a little built-in keyboard to supply a particular cluster or bass note that would really fill out the sound.I have even done a punch-in or two as has been previously suggested but shy away form this as I have kinda made a committment to the solo-acoustic mode of performance allowing me the freedom to perform these songs in a coffee house setting.I leave midi in the studio.Playing a simple guitar part allows me to let go of the friggin' mouse, touch tablet, piano roll etc..
Posted by: Little Wild One, make-a-wish.comGee, Earl\others, seems hoops has made arrangements for your wish to perhaps come true....
In other words, come to Chicago Labor Day Weekend and bring your axe\portable instrument of choice!
Posted by: Dennis, This city's getting to me!I apologize to you Earl. Please ignore my last post and thanks for understanding and the kind words. I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from learning or playing. Keep it up! I listened last night and you guys are right about Black Cow, it's a subtle difference but it's there. It has inspired me to go back and listen to these songs thoroughly again to see what I may be missing though so thanks.
bwaySteve: I play in a 10 piece Steely Dan cover band in Chicago called Katy Lied. Playing in a SD cover band is always a learning experience. There is much to learn and just when you think you've nailed something you may hear something else. Just so you know we are always trying to improve our arrangements. You guys are helping! A lot of the songs I learned I learned by ear and sometimes trying to pick guitar parts out can be difficult.
In the past couple of weeks I have been kind of staying out of the chord discussions because I feel it can get boring for the other Bluebookers. Yesterday, (having a bad day) I thought I was right and I couldn't resist. Everything is a learning experience! I apologize to anyone I might have pissed off!
By the way we have made some changes to our lineup. We had some trouble with our bass player and had to let him go. The bonus is that I was able to get my good friend and musical soulmate Kevin Junemann into the band. He is a phenomenal bass player and I have been playing in a band and writing songs with him for about 4 years. If you are in the Chicago area, wait until you hear this guy play! We play tomorrow night at Prairie Rocks Brewing Co. in Schaumberg, IL. Start at 9:00 We also hired a new backup singer. Her name is Jeanie, she is a swell looker as well as a great singer. They are both going to make the band tighter than ever. We are excited. Hope to see some of you there.
Posted by: Earl, DelawareHoward, Stevee, Dennis, and anyone else who plays this music:
Thanks for your reinforcement, but I think the major point is that we all want our music to sound the best it can. I think that this type of debate is part of the mystique of their music...there are such subtleties that it is a joy to be able to listen to what's going on and realize the depth of the music. That's why I'm almost glad that there are a lot of rather shoddy transcriptions of Dan songs, because it leaves that much more room for improvement.
My only wish would be that we lived closer together so that we could meet, discuss these things, and make some music.
Earl
Posted by: Howard,
Dennis, Earl, fellow guitar and keyboard players:
My take on the chords in the chorus of Black Cow - it is a Cmaj7/D, rather than a C/D.
I don't have the CD to hand, but I have listened very closely to this track (in the process of writing my own guitar transcription).
From the start of the chorus, I hear the guitar play:
Amaj7 Gmaj7 Cmaj7 Amaj7
This is using the top 4 strings, i.e xx7654 xx5432 x x 10 9 8 7
The strumming tends to emphasise the top 3 strings more, but as the maj7th is on the top string, you hear this quite a lot. Given what the keyboards and bass are playing, this gives the first 4 chords as Amaj7 Gmaj7/A Cmaj7/D Amaj7. The keyboard voicings have the maj7th and root of the chord right next to each other in a nice cluster (sometimes the maj7th is also added right at the top) - different to the guitar voicing, but the same chord.
For the record, here is what I hear for the remainder:
Gmaj7 F#m7 F#9(no 3rd) E6 Eb7#9 D/E Asus2/C#
F#m7 E Dmaj7 Cmaj7/D Ebmaj7/F
For those last two you can hear the maj7 spelled out in the keyboard arpeggios.
Howard
Posted by: Steveedan, Hi Dennis, Earl and Mr. Baker ---
You guys are all guitarists, while I am a keyboard guy. On keyboard, the chord is definitely a CMaj7 over D. The tension is definitely there. I am speaking for the keyboard part. I haven't listened as critically to the guitar part, but I would assume, that if that same tension can be heard on guitar, that the guitar is playing a CMaj7 and muting the 2 lowest sounding strings, while the keyboard and the bass handle the D in the bass.
I admit that I am taking a stab at it, but, I am using a "Steely Knife", is that OK?
Thank you boys.
Steveedan
Posted by: Earl, DelawareBway: To answer your question will also maybe answer the questions Dennis brought up. I don't play guitar for SD in a group, but aspire to in the (hopefully) not-too-distant future. I have instead been trying my best to learn the guitar parts for some of the songs. Kinda stinks playing for yourself, but that's the way it goes. But I instead try to play the guitar parts only. I suppose that it's good to learn the melodies and what others are doing as well. I play pretty much strictly electric (since I have limited equip.).
Hope this answers your question.
Earl
Posted by: bwaySteve, metro NY areaI have been following the discussion about playing Dan on guitar and am interested in hearing how each of you performs Steely Dan.Are you doing it solo-guitar finger style, as part of a group or duo or do you back your own or someone else's singing? Is your playing done as a study or in performance.It is very interesting trying some of the examples to get the person's take on the distillation process.I am struck by the clarity of each person's understanding.
I would love to hear some of this stuff.
steve
had the most incredible (Belgian) fries at a spot right near the Brill building today. All kinds of sauces and mayos there , the fries amazingly hot and crispy. I picked a mayo with Thai peppers and a hint of fish sauce and vinegar. Very interesting.Walked over to 48th St, played an $8500 Taylor with mother of pearl art on the neck and a delicate Abalone design around the sound hole and purfling. Those Taylors all seem to be set up soooo nice.The guy said that Koa wood can only be used if you own the land the tree is on nowadays, the top was Spruce.It was an extraordinary piece of art and had a beautiful sound.(no electronics in this one!)
Posted by: Earl, DelawareAnd to properly quote Dennis, it was "Get a new book," not the other line I wrote.
But I want to plead with you, listen to the record again. It's a Cmaj7 with a D in the bass. I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, but the guitar is playing the maj7. I am almost certain I hear a B in that line where the 2nd "while you're running around" comes in. Maybe I'm hearing things, but that's what I hear. I feel as though I have pretty good ears too, although I definitely don't have the experience you do professionally.
And Dennis, I value your opinions...you were great when I saw you guys back in June, much more accomplished that me. I was just giving advice to people who were asking, and not trying to act like a virtuoso or anything. I don't know about you, but to be able to chat music with people that know their stuff is exciting, and I could go on and on about that type of stuff.
Would like to start putting the bridge back together if possible...
Earl
Posted by: Earl, DelawareDennis: No I don't know it all. I thought I was contributing. Next time there's a question about chords, I'll let someone else answer. I thought someone wanted help, so I answered. Then I get crap about checking my book or something to that effect. Whatever. You play it your way, I'll play it mine. I'll be wrong forever and ever.
If you hadn't added the bullshit "Check your books" line, I would have admitted to being wrong. But instead that crap just turns it into a pissing match IMO.
Earl
Posted by: Dennis, ChiG/A is right. My typo. I'll listen to it and give you my opinion tomorrow. If I'm wrong I'll admit it. I have to say playing this shit all the time (and I do play it all the time) I may have misjudged some things here and there but I usually trust my ear. There is a huge difference in tonality between Maj7 and straight major. It's called tension. I think I would know the difference and that's the reason I play it the way I do because I don't hear the maj7. I've been told I have a great ear, I've been playing professionally for 17 years. I am more of an EAR player. I could be wrong. Good Goddamn You seem to know everything Earl. Politics, music. You must be a great player and in a great band. Do you give lessons online?
Posted by: Earl, DelawareMeant to say I disagree on point #1. I think point #2 is one of those voicing issues that could cause only Becker and Fagen to lose sleep. If you play C/E/G/C or C/E/G/B I don't think you're going to cause your arranger to pull his/her hair out.
Earl
Posted by: Earl, DelawareDennis: Have to disagree dude.
#1) Never got that out of a book, just my good ol' failing ears.
#2) I will have to get back to you on this. I'm at work w/o the benefits of having a guitar to match voicings. As I listen more closely, it sounds like I would have to agree with you. Like I said, w/o a guitar I can't really make a good determination, but I may have confused the maj7 part that the e.piano was playing with the guitar, since they are pretty close in tone. But in reality, if you were to play a Cmaj7 it wouldn't change a whole lot with the song, since your e.piano should play it too.
Oh yeah, it's G/A dude after the Amaj7 in the chorus, not A/G...check YOUR books. And given the other parts I'd call it a Gmaj7/A.
Earl
Posted by: Dennis, ChiThe words didn't line up with the chords like I wrote it but just play the chords and you'll see what I mean.
Posted by: Dennis, ChicagoAll of the chords I use when playing SD tunes are very common, everyday chords that should be in every guitarist's vocabulary. Even the 7#9 chord at the beginning of DTMA although it does require some facility on your instrument. If you have trouble with things like this then you need practice. There is no need to over-think or over-complicate this music. Any good chord book will teach you the correct voicings you need to know for every Steely Dan song ever written.
Earl, that CMaj7/D 10x10 9 8 7 voicing you talked about is insane. You will never use that in a Steely Dan song. In fact there isn't a CMaj7/D in Black Cow it is a simple C/D.
AMaj7 - A/G - C/D - AMaj7 - GMaj7 - F#mi7 - C#mi/E - Eb7 - D/E -I cant cry.... Seems Over
AMaj9 - F#mi7 - E - DMaj7 etc.
Now Big Blk Cow and get outta here.
That CMaj7/D sounds like a case of the "Bad Fake Books" to me. My ear doesn't tell me there is a CMaj7/D in it. Get a new book.
Posted by: Mary, JapanPete: Start jerking off more with your right hand. Before you know it, both hands will be even. Howard...what do you think?
Mary
(Straping on Steely Dan II from Yokohama)
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaStevee et al-
I feel compelled to re-clarify that my capo suggestion was made in jest. But I do agree that that with practice many of the harder chords can be learned. As long as the arrangement is a good one, it's worth plugging away. But it's tempting at times to see if there are some less-painful options.
P.S. I have not yet tried to do the DTMA chord, but have started an alternating program of Hand-Yoga/Hand-Pilates to get ready. My right hand is starting to look pretty feeble next to my left!
Posted by: Earl, DelawareStevee: Personally I think it's a pretty easy thing to achieve, but if a guitarist has only ever played G-C-D7, they might have a little trouble with that shape.
I think the reason why many bands disregard SD's work is that the chord changes are just so odd. The 5(no3rd) chords, also known as power chords, are so common in the metal/grunge/alternative rock genres that many guitar players just don't know how to progress through more extended chords.
To continue with DTMA, the chords from the chorus of the song are actually much tougher to play in my opinion. To get the proper dissonance during the "I crossed my..." part, you need to play some min(add9) chords which are very difficult to execute. You have to stretch your hands out across 4 frets to get those. Not to mention that (if I remember the key correctly) you play the song in Cmin, so the chords are Fmin(add9) and Gmin(add9), which happen to occur where the frets are the farthest apart. Not too easy. But for a performance I'm sure that it could be dumbed down to Fmin and Gmin with not a whole lot of loss, although diehard fans might notice the difference.
Earl
Posted by: Howard,
Stevee - that DTMA intro chord is playable, just a little difficult. (BTW, my comments on this have ended up split between yellow and blue - check both if you're interested).
The difficulty is not the fact that it's arpeggiated, it's just a question of getting all 6 notes to sustain nicely.
The chord shape is: 355466
Barre at the 3rd fret with first finger. Then, the top two notes at the 6th fret can be covered with the 4th finger ("pinky"). 4th fret note played with 2nd finger, which leaves only one finger (3rd finger) to play both notes at the 5th fret. This is the bit that is a little tricky, as you need to squash your fingertip a bit to cover both notes, but you need to make sure you don't mute any other strings by mistake.
Using your thumb for the bottom string note is one way out of this - it frees up an extra finger. But last time I tried this I found the "thumb" version a bit uncomfortable.
Howard
Posted by: Steveedan, Regarding that opening arpeggiated guitar chord on Don't Take Me Alive. Now, I am NOT a guitarist, so I can't really speak from personal experience to the "capo or not to capo" or the "altered vs. standard tuning" suggestions ... but ...
In the various bands that I have been in over the years, Don't Take Me Alive has always been a popular song for our garage bands (in the early days) and our SD tribute bands to play.
In every instance, I never saw any guitar player who played this song with us use a capo or an altered tuning, and they always got that intro right.
So I am confused here. Is this opening chord (in its arpeggiated form) really that difficult to execute?
Steveedan
Posted by: Deacon BlueBook, Mr. Whatevah: It does seem to be a crediting error. A quick search revealed the following: Pinetop Perkins has performed songs called "Ida B." and "Miss Ida B.", and there is also another old blues song by the name of "Miss Ida Lee". I have a feeling these songs are actually all one and the same and have no connection to D&W . In fact, the only connection they might have is that D&W probably got the idea for "Ida Lee" from this old blues tune.
Posted by: Whatevah happens, Hey Norm. No, it didn't sound at all like our boys' Ida Lee demo. But, I guess Perkins must have used it somehow as a jumping off point for his version. I'm just still in shock that he used it at all. When they put up the credit info on the screen I remember thinking to myself, "Boy that was some dynamite reefer I had earlier."
Is it possible that Perkins himself actually went out and bought one of those gray-market demo CDs? NOT. Or maybe one of his younger bandmates brought it to his attention. Whatevah... this had to crack the boys up when they heard about it.
Posted by: norm, ida leewhateveh - does this sound like the tune you heard?
http://www.andymetzger.com/sounds/idalee.mp3
Posted by: The Answer Man, Mountain Stage
Pinetop Perkins Set No.1 --
Chicken Shack by Walter Jacobs
How Long That Train Been Gone by LeRoy Carr
Down in Mississippi by J. B. Lenoir
Pinetop Perkins Set No. 2 --
Ida Lee by Becker / Fagen
Big Back Mama (not attributed)
Posted by: Earl, DelawareHoward: Yeah, I'd say that a good amount of the time I leave the D-bass note out. If I were going to play Black Cow with a full ensemble, I'd for sure just play the typical C-E-G-B maj7. I've trained my fingers to do some weird things, and I can get a lot of the tricky positions. Playing the Cmaj7 chord that the E.Piano plays in Black Cow would be very difficult.
Earl
Posted by: C, Stockholm, SwedenHoward - What about this: It would be a nice "cheat" for a recording though - record the first chord with an open tuning, then do a second take without the open tuning to cover the rest!
?
Posted by: Earl, DelawareLove chile? I didn't know that Glenn was a vegetable enthusiast.
And it's pretty common knowledge that the lineup the Eagles sported before they broke up was a rather rowdy bunch. Henley and Frey were pretty hard into drugs, and Joe Walsh tore apart his hotel room on many occasions. THere was even a rumor that Henley and Stevie Nicks conceived a love chile (sic) of their own, but she had it terminated.
Still, their music was pretty good.
Earl
Posted by: Howard,
Pete - I wouldn't like to use that capo idea in a live performance. A bit too risky? It would be a nice "cheat" for a recording though - record the first chord with capo, then do a second take without capo to cover the rest!
Clas - you could get that chord with an open tuning, but I'm pretty sure the original uses standard tuning. The rest of the guitar part (intro solo etc) certainly sounds that way.
Earl - I've tried those 10 x 10 9 8 7 type guitar shapes before, but my thumb didn't like them! You must have more flexible fingers than me. I think that maj7 note (e.g the B in the Cmaj7/D chord) appears in the top of the rhythm guitar part, but also features as the tighter B-C dissonance in the bottom of the keyboard chord.
norm - I've pondered before over what key Two Against Nature (the track) is in. It's an interesting song that, to my ears, constantly contrasts and switches between major and minor. So you have a G# major AND G# minor feel in the verses, often within a few notes of each other. Same for the chorus - E major and E minor. This is a trick that they used before in Black Friday, though it's less "in-your-face" on that one.
It shouldn't be that shocking, as the minor/major 3rd contrast is one of the main building blocks of the blues, which after all is the backbone of many SD tracks. But the way they exaggerate that minor/major contrast in 2VN in particular is pretty bold. I guess it fits with the way their harmonies have moved on in more recent years - generally using bolder and more strongly dissonant chords (e.g. I don't think there were any chords like A/C until D+W's solo albums).
Howard
Posted by: Glenn's Love Chile, I was reading the latest issue of the UK mag, Uncut, and it's all about my daddy and his band, the Eagles. Now many of you may have known but I didn't know:
My Dad had his nose rebuilt TWICE, the second time with Teflon (TM), I guess so the snow wouldn't stick. I guess it's like waxing your skis.
My Dad's pal Don used to like to tie up the groupie of the night to his bed posts and then videotape themselves on 8mm film. So much for being used to 16 or more.
Don used to insist that the toilet paper at hotels always roll over the top and would write letters to hotel managers if the paper rolled under. That Don! He's such a political activist!
Their buddy Joe would cut things up with chainsaw. Luckily, Irving, their baby sitter, had rolls of $100 bills to pay for things.
In general, the band with the peaceful, easy feeling used to beat the shit out of each other all the time. My Daddy is tougher than Don!
My Daddy! My hero!
Posted by: Prop Man, Bob Dylan played the Newport Folk Festival over the weekend.
" Typically inscrutable, Dylan wore a false beard as well as a long wig under his cowboy hat to send long straight locks dangling past his ears. A golden statue sat on his amplifier, perhaps to remind the audience he had won an Oscar."
Maybe Walter and Donald should do the same.
Posted by: Steveedan, Didn't "Mr. Sam" want the lyrics to the song Mr. Sam?
Well ... did you? Huh? Huh ???
Well, I did some looking around via the Steely Dan webring, and I easily found it on one of the sites: Here is your Mr. Sam song, Mr. Sam ...
Mister Sam
He / used to work here / in her garden / but he don't no more
Spellbound / by his pansies / he caressed them / on the greenhouse floor
She / was the lady / on the outside / [?searching, elegant, finally]
He / was the [?lowball] Cocker Spaniard / that we all ignore
Mister Sam don't look so good no more
I've never seen him cry out loud before
One / lovely evening / left abandoned / by her China man
She / on the rebound / she amazed him / with her sleight of hand
Smoking / fragrant opium / wild gambling / all the signs of a lifetime of
Leisure / with no worries / all the details / so precisely planned
Mister Sam don't look so good no more
I've never seen him cry out loud before
Long / past midnight / in the half light / just before the dawn
Broken / sorry animal / by the greenhouse / on the southeast lawn
Standing / almost human / crying please / and the screams could be heard we are
Told / by a neighbor / who is wakened / by his tuneless song
Mister Sam don't look so good no more
I've never seen him cry out loud before
It is a pleasure to be of service to you.
Mr. Steveedan
Posted by: DrMµ, TejasGaucho was engineered by Roger Nichols, Elliot Scheiner, Bill Schnee and a host of assistants
Aja was engineered by Roger, Elliot, Bil, and Al Schmitt.
Both albums of course won Grammys for Best Engineered non-classical recording...
Posted by: Whatevah happens, I just witnessed one of the most bizarre SD song performances ever.
On the PBS show "Mountain Stage", one of the guests was the legendary stride/blues pianist Pinetop Perkins.
Toward the end of the program, he launches into a bluesy tune. They flash up the title and the songwriters, like they do for every song.
"Ida Lee",
Written by Becker/Fagen.
Unbelievable. If I didn't see it and hear it with my own eyes I wouldn't have believed it.
Now, it is possible that they erred in the authors, since there may be other tunes named Ida Lee from the history of music, and he definitely didn't sing all the lyrics that we know from those SD early demos. But still... this was one for Ripley.
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaEarl,
I was kidding ... (Thought the sirens part would be a tip off.)
But you are right about the "lifelong learning" aspects of the guitar or any instrument. From what I can tell, you're probably pretty good. I know working on SD songs has helped me improve and it's prompted me to keep trying. So thanks for the encouragement...it's appreciated.
-Pete
P.S. I will admit to using a capo with folky songs (that sound better with open strings), but where I need to adjust the key.
Posted by: C @ W, East of HollywoodEarl/Howard - yes, that Steely Dan Complete is a bitch. The Steely Dan Songbook for guitar is better I think.
And about the slash-chords (C/D-type), when playing the guitar I use my Index-finger over the fret, and avoiding the low and high E-string.
Howard - re the opening chord in Don't Take Me Alive, could it be that the guitar has a open tuning, no?
And hey! "Nincompoops" - that was a new word for me! Had to look it up, never seen it before!
C
Posted by: Steveedan, West Of Hollywood (for real)Hey Norm !!! How are you ?!?
Yep. Great stuff on 2VN, to be sure. More sophisticated, evolved.
See you in Hermosa, or sooner, let me know.
StevEE
Posted by: Earl, DelawarePete: If you are doing an acoustic version, that probably works just fine. If you're planning on playing a version that more accurately reflects the dark, menacing tone of DTMA, you'd probably want to go with a distorted guitar. I'm not sure how good of an idea it is to capo an electric...I avoid it when possible.
As far as need for a capo, I'd encourage you to practice such chords without capoing, as well as the famous mu-major chords. Not that I think that a capoed acoustic wouldn't work, because I'd bet that it would work well in that type of setting. I'm only suggesting this because they are good exercises to increase your left-hand flexibility and muscle memory. The more you attempt these chords, the better you will become at playing not only those chords but similar chords that cause you to use unconventional fingerings.
If there's something that I've learned about guitar, it's that there's always another lesson. There are millions of ways to play a section of music, and the more we experiment and learn the better the music will be in the end. I'm not trying to sound like an awesome guitar player either, because I'd consider myself adequate. But it's nice to hear other ideas and toss them around. The roster of axegrinders on Dan albums is awesome, and the examples given in their collective works are a wonderful resource to learn about what works.
Earl
Posted by: n, I just remembered - WB is playing minor thirds the whole time. Oops! But what I said about the Softs and that type of bass playing still applies.
On this tune, at least whatever thirds are played aren't obtrusive - he plays minor thirds, but the other instruments sound like they're in a major mode, at least on the G# and D sections.
And those horn riffs at the end - nothing flashy, but so tasty.
Posted by: n, p.s.oh yeah - the three songs you mentioned (title track, Negative Girl, West Of Hollywood) are probably my three favorite cuts on it. The rest are tied for second.
Posted by: norm, The bass line from Two Against Nature (the song) always reminds me of Soft Machine - not any song in particular, just the sort of line Hugh Hopper would often come up with. And the little riff DF plays on the Rhodes right before the solo totally reminds me of the Softs.
Not to imply D+W were "lifting" from SM, they have enough ideas of their own. And it still always out as their own anyway. I remember hearing What A Shame About Me on the radio for the first time, about a week before the album came out. There's that little discordant piano riff in the intro, and as soon as I heard that, even before DF sang a word (and not hearing the DJ announce the song), I KNEW it was them.
One thing I picked up from Soft Machine in terms of bass playing is that sometimes it's good to avoid playing the third of the chord. That way there's more room for other instruments to move around, scale-wise, especially the soloist. In this case, the verses are in G#, the chorus is E, the solo part is D, and WB never plays the third even once throughout the tune.
I would love to see them stretch this one out a little, with several soloists taking a turn a la Green Earrings.
Stevee - gig in Hermosa? Parrrrrrrr-TEE!
Posted by: Paige, Santa BarbaraThe other day I had to make a trip up the coast. I found a recording of 2vN on tape. I hadn't listened to it for about three or four months. I popped it into the tape player and started up the 101.
I was totally amazed on how much I missed this album. But the more amazing thing was the fact that I started to appreciate the tracks that I thought were weak (and used to skip over in the past).
I would always pass on the title track, Neg Girl, and West of Hollywood. I'm not sure why I used to skip them. I realize now that they are great cuts .....made the trip so much easier.
-Paige
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaHoward & Earl-
Thanks for the info on DTMA intro chord. I'll give it a try.
Already have an idea that you may want to check out, too:
1. Put a capo on 3rd fret and apply fingers to remaining strings
2. Play intro chord (slowly, as on the record)
3. During extended dramatic pause, gingerly remove capo. [Option during pause: make interesting "sirens" sound effect by whistling or falsetto.]
4. Play the rest of the song and thank D&W for not putting that chord into the arrangement more than once.
-Pete
Posted by: edbeatty, @northwest of the White HouseAl Schmitt- Gaucho
I'm alive and feeling fine...ducky moving to San Diego wow...
Now if i could get outta here..
Ed (white house) Beatty
Posted by: Pulling mussels, Let's not forrget that you sometimes get a pearl from the inside of those moollusks... Look at where it says "P. 408" on the new SD home page.. It looks like it's pointing toward a specific piece of the creature, with a bulge there. That's where the pearl is located !
Posted by: Earl, DelawareBig Fan: FM was the song that was engineered by Al Schmitt.
Ma Bell: Why don't you fade away like Rosie Vela's career? Guess looks won't guarantee your success in music.
Earl
Posted by: Big Fan , At WorkTrivia question - which song are they talking about in this article?
http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=C6993924-4095-4D13-B9D9F3E68DEC3177&title=Former%20VOA%20Audio%20Engineer%20Holds%2011%20Grammy%20Awards&catOID=45C9C78F-88AD-11D4-A57200A0CC5EE46C
Posted by: Ma Bell, Earl - you're a knob. just face it.
Ma
Posted by: MS Internet Explorer 6.x, MS IE. 6.0 notifies you that steelydan.com has been updated with a new graphic on the main page and an addition to these pages:
http://www.steelydan.com/mailroom.html
http://www.steelydan.com/steelymail.28.html
http://www.steelydan.com/newspage.html
Posted by: Whatevah happens, Peg,, I think snails are actually a type of mollusk. So are clams, mussels, squids.
Posted by: Earl, DelawarePete: I play it like Howard described. As he said, sometimes it's tough to get that fingering to the point where you don't mute the B that you're playing on the G string. I try to barre at 3, hit that B with the middle finger, cover both the D and the G with my ring finger, and bridge over to the F and the Bb with my pinky. Again, I'd recommend picking up the green Best of Steely Dan songbook. The tab in that book seems to be pretty good by my ear. Obviously there are better transcribers than others, but this one gets it pretty good. Might give you some ideas for your solo guitar since it basically tabs out all the guitar parts.
I will definitely admit that I have looked at Howard's transcriptions before, so I have adapted some of his ideas and my ideas together to get what I feel is a good representation of what is played. There are just so many intricacies to the way the rhythm guitar is played on these songs that a person can probably go insane trying to pick out each guitar part. I would assume that many times, when playing a solo acoustic to try to reproduce the songs, you would be playing a hybrid guitar/piano/horn part that tries to get the overall sound of the song. Many of the guitar parts on these songs would be difficult to recognize as that particular song without the rest of the musicians playing their parts.
Clas: Definitely trust your ear. If you have the "Steely Dan Complete" book, take it VERY VERY skeptically. There are some decent transcriptions, but I think they were written by someone who was either a) in a rush, b) writing it for novice musicians, or c) musical nincompoops. I have to admit that the book is at least decent for the songs from "Gaucho", but for a number of songs the book falls very short of correctness. Almost the entire "Aja" album is written out in the wrong key. I guess what it really amounts to is that the person writing out the music tried to scribe it for a solo pianist to play/sing in a recognizable fashion (whether or not it's possible from what's scribed in that book is questionable).
Howard: I tend to play that Cmaj7/D in "Black Cow" as 10 X 10 9 8 7, kinda sliding up to it from the 5 X 5 4 3 2 that I play for Gmaj7/A. It's not an easy shape to play by any means, but you just need to use the thumb to pick up the bass note. You definitely don't derive the same tension that you would get from the 1/2-step transition C and B (or G and F# for the Gmaj7/A chord), but it sounds like they are playing that B in the higher register anyway.
The snail...maybe they're trying to rename their site the Cafe D'Escargot?
Earl
Posted by: Peg, Amidst jungle musiqueMore musings brought me to another thought -- what if it's not a snail, but a mullosk? The shell is not snaillike, really. More like one you'd find in the river or ocean. But snail or mullosk, both creatures do move slowly, Howard!
Posted by: Howard,
Clas - Cmaj7/D sounds right to me for the Black Cow chorus - give it a go. In fact, this connects us back to the thread on guitars a while back - I was talking about this very chord!
My transcription has this for the final chorus (same as Earl's suggestion):
Amaj7 Gmaj7/A C/D Amaj7 Gmaj13
but my initial notes explain that most of the C/D chords are actually played as Cmaj7/D, it's just that on guitar C/D is a slightly more finger-friendly option. You should know by now not to trust the songbooks Clas! (at least, not the "Complete" songbook, one of the worst offenders).
And yes, my track on the Steely Knives could well be a little flat in terms of concert pitch. It was played in Em, but I don't always tune to standard pitch, so it may come out more like Ebm.
Pete - the opening chord to "Don't Take Me Alive" is (low to high): 355466 - pick each string individually and leave to sustain, starting at the bottom string. I've never figured out a reliable and comfortable way to play this chord. Trying to fret both 5th fret notes with the 3rd (ring) finger is probably the best option, but you have to be careful not to mute the 4th fret note on the next string. Using the thumb for the bottom note is the other option, but that didn't seem to work last time I tried it...
Peg - re the ODP snail. Maybe it just means "Yes, we're taking our time - that's what you expect from us, right?". We don't expect snails to go fast. We shouldn't expect Steely Dan albums to be completed quickly. As long as the final result is good (and they havn't disappointed me yet), they should take all the time they want...
... but I like your "retreat inside the shell" idea too.
Howard
Posted by: Clas @ Work, Hot townEarl - Cmaj7/D instead of Dm7? Got check it out, I am a usually trusting those damn songbooks instead trusting my ears. Thanx for telling.
Posted by: Steveedan, I wanted to chime in on the "play it as written" vs. improv subject.
The approach that my band takes with the material is to at first learn it exactly as it is (either on the original studio version or one of the live versions that we have collected). Then, as we get used to playing it and "have it completely under our fingers", we then sit down and discuss any alterations that we would suggest making to the material.
None of us feel that we are going to come up with something better than our idols (for those of you who want to flame me for the audacity of stating it), but, we do want to breathe new life in certain cases (not very often mind you).
An example of this would be the song Aja. We play the song like the original studio version, but we use the Alive In America ending because we think that those chords at the end are great.
Another example would be Green Earrings. We play the song like the original studio version until we get to the solos, then we run a guitar solo (still like the studio version), followed by a piano solo, then follow that with a horn solo (like the Plush DVD version). Then, we end the song like the Plush DVD version, but we added one extra chromatic chord before the final chord to give it just a little more "kick".
Having stated all of this, I guess my "broad, sweeping statement" about modifying Steely Dan material would be:
We want to bring home the original spirit and intensity of the material, but put a little (no more than, say, 10 to 15 percent) of ourselves into the music, so that we do not compromise the original compositional mastery that makes their material so fantastic.
Finally, there are a few places where the solos that we play are totally our own, like in Chain Lightning, Black Friday, and a few others.
Steveedan
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaEarl-
At the risk of more invectives from Ma Bell, how do you play that opening chord from Don't Take Me Alive?
-Pete
P.S. Gonna stuff socks into my accoustic to get the right sound ...
Posted by: Peg, Venezuela (not really just feels like it)That snail picture on the opening page of the official SD Web site has got me to musing.
Tis maybe their way of saying, "We are living in 'the shell' now (i.e., intensely burrowed in the recording studio)."
Or, it's just the good 'ol "mobile home" in an au natural, and ecologcially responsible form....
Or perhaps, a more literal take is the way to go: "We like to slowly climb on vegetation and deposit a slippery substance along the way."
Oh, well. Too much of a rhetorical and philosophical challenge for a Thursday night. Must rest now......
Posted by: Earl, DelawareMa Bell: As has been posted here many a time, if you don't like a conversation, ignore it. Oh yeah, isn't that G7#9 chord that starts off "Don't Take Me Alive" killer?
Earl
Posted by: Earl, DelawareClas: I have come to play it like this:
Amaj7 | Gmaj7/A | Cmaj7/D | Amaj7 Gmaj13 |
and repeat. The Gmaj13 I call that because it includes the maj7 in there (the shape being 3 x 4 4 5 5 ).
Earl
Posted by: C, Get BACK to you. Sorry.
Posted by: Clas @ Work (oh no I'm a waiter again!), SwedenEarl - re Black Cow - I think I have to get beck to you on that one. What I remember the outr chorus/refrain goes
Amaj7 - Bm7/A - Dm7 - Amaj7 - G and on and on?
Howard - hmm, well put. And hey, I played along to the GB CD, and you have your guitar tuned a halfstep down? That Seven Feel is in Em7?
C
