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Click for August 2002 BlueBook Entries
Date: Wed, July 31, 2002, 22:43:48
Date: Wed, July 31, 2002, 22:15:37
Date: Wed, July 31, 2002, 12:34:02
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Date: Fri, July 19, 2002, 02:22:35
Date:Posted at the top of the BlueBook Fri, July 12-19, 2002,
JULY 2002 BlueBook Entries
Posted by: Gail Jamrok,
Posted by: Ma Bell, You fm9-5maj7#13 snobs is fucking boring!!!!!!
Let's talk about Rosie Vela.
http://www.rosievela.com/zazuhome.html
MB
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA
Howard posted the following quote from guitarist Jon Herington:
"In all the months of playing with Steely Dan, I think only once did I get anything close to a specific direction as to what to play. In general, I was completely free to play the gig the way I thought it should be played. Walter and I did get together early on before the band rehearsals to figure out who would play what parts, etc., but there was never a discussion about solo approach, sound, or anything like that.
The charts for the tunes were only chord charts with changes and occasionally voicings (for keyboard, never for guitar), but I always treated the records as the starting point for deciding what parts and voicings would work best, and then varied those parts as necessary or appropriate, or when asked by Donald or Walter to try something else if it seemed to them that the overall sound required something different."
This is an important point in regards to discussions of Steely Dan sessions and respective players; it can be surmised that the main reason direction isn't given is because Becker and Fagen already have a "stylistic context" of some sort for each instrument and its instrumentalist - which is why that particular player was chosen for that particular song (or tour as the case may be). They have a good idea about each players choices, which is why they were hired to start with.
I work the same way: I no longer look for rock players, as musicians who play jazz are (generally) far more adept at achieving what I am looking for; your average jazz player is much more capable than your average rock player. Thus that stylistic context works better for me, even if the material isn't strictly jazz. But clearly Becker and Fagen know that Herington is not going to suddenly start playing everything with ferociously distorted flatted fifths and enormous amounts of phasing and echo; each player is clearly chosen for their facility, style and feel.
So far their choices have always been impeccable, though I would have liked it if Wayne Krantz had made it onto the album version of 'Jack of Speed' (along with Becker's vocal); at the same time, even with all the stellar session players that appeared on Steely Dan recordings, Becker's solos were always favorites (as Fagen has also noted), and certainly one of my biggest influences on guitar-
Randy/NIGHTFLY62@aol.com
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaWherever you put your finders, the ending of TWM is terrific and kinda hypnotic. This thread brings to mind another final chord change that I've marvelled at:
In Black Cow the first two choruses ["...and get outta here"] end in one chord (Cmaj7 in my songbook) while the final chorus ends in a different one (Amaj7 ...). Each time the chord gives an unresolved feeling to the music and story, but with a different sensation in the final ending -- almost like this situation with the wayward girlfriend is gonna go on for a while.
Anyone else notice this and get the same feeling of "wow"?
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, californiaSorry -- wherever you put your FINGERS!
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaWherever you put your finders, the ending of TWM is terrific and kinda hypnotic. This thread brings to mind another final chord change that I've marvelled at:
In Black Cow the first two choruses ["...and get outta here"] end in one chord (Cmaj7 in my songbook) while the final chorus ends in a different one (Amaj7 ...). Each time the chord gives an unresolved feeling to the music and story, but with a different sensation in the final ending -- almost like this situation with the wayward girlfriend is gonna go on for a while.
Anyone else notice this and get the same feeling of "wow"?
Posted by: Earl, DelawareTrue, Clas. I think that it gives it a rather bluesy feel to take it to the V7 and do the same type of progression. It then leads into an understated turnaround back to the original statement.
Earl
Posted by: Howard,
Maurice Ravel - I have to agree with Earl. Clas' comment about the diminished feel of the Fm - C7 change in Third World Man is entirely justified, as Earl has kindly pointed out. For someone with a big reputation, you seem to have a somewhat shaky grasp of music. You also don't speak very good French.
For what it's worth, I happen to think the opening track (by Clas) on the recent Steely Knives compilation, like the opening track on the previous CD, is a superb song. Just because you don' t like what someone says, it shouldn't cloud your judgement of their music.
Howard
Posted by: C @ Hot as Hell, And the real climax of Third World Man is the end/outro. The theme changes, goes down to Cmajor:
C - Bb - C - Bb - C - C
That's brilliant.
Posted by: C, Stockholm, SwedenEarl - thanx for that.
Posted by: Earl, DelawareI actually have to agree w/ Clas on this one. When he states C7 as having a diminished feel, he's using it as a bit of a shortcut. The C7 triad of (Bb E G) is also present in Edim (E G Bb). They end up sustaining the F bass throughout the rhythm figure, so it doesn't ever end up as Edim, but it has that feeling of moving from Fmin to a 7th degree diminished. And to give even more merit to this, the song is written in Ab (in my opinion), and Edim7 is the same as Gdim7, so in essence it is a 7th degree diminished triad with an altered bass.
If you really wanted to get into the theoretical dissection of the intro to Third World Man...
Earl
Posted by: Clas, Maurice Ravel - I said: dimished feel. When you're playing the Third World Man theme, don't touch the C-note in the C7-chord.
Voicing, left hand / right hand:
F / F G# C - E G Bb - F G# C - E G Bb - F G# C - F G# C
And hey, don't talk about the Sign In Stranger Compilation CD on this board. We're not supposed to do that.
Posted by: Maurice Ravel, FranceClas: Vous-etes un idiot! Vous ne comprends toujours la musique!!! Vous mange merdre! I fart in your general direction!
Just so you can understand, a diminished chord contains a minor 3rd, flatted (diminished) 5th.
A C7 is nowhere near a Cdiminished, as the 7th is present, and there's a major 3rd and the natural 5th.
Madames & Monsieurs, please, please, please pay no attention to this meatball from a modern 3rd world country that pretends to be neutral on all things - even musique!
His so called 'music' is nothing more than ear candy for 3 year olds - there is no soul, there is no significance!
Viva Steely Dan!
Viva toujours bonne musique!
Viva la France!!!!! - MR
Posted by: Howard, NAJB
NAJB : Yes, Steely Dan are infamous for their obsession over every nuance of their music making. But to say that improvisation and spontaneity have no part in their music misses the point. It has a very important part to play - for the studio recordings, and for the live performances; for the rhythm playing and for the solos.
As others have already commented (and there are plenty of interviews with band members to back this up), once the basic harmonic framework has been learned (and this IS specified in detail), band members are usually free to elaborate on their parts, with guidance from D+W of course. For solos in particular, the players are asked to bring their own ideas and influence to the track. They improvide the solos, and D+W advise on what bits they like and what bits they don't - it's a collaborative process in which improvisation plays a crucial role.
Aside from solos, the rhythm players also have a certain amount of freedom. In the making of Aja video, Chuck Rainey and Larry Carlton talk about this - where they were trying out their own ideas, and these were usually well received by D+W. The slapping bass idea in the chorus of Peg is interesting, as D+W originally stated firmly that they didn't want slapping, yet Chuck Rainey was confident enough to know that his part WOULD work.
As far as live playing goes, yes most players use charts. So what? This doesn't mean that every note is written down on paper. Miles Davis wrote out charts for "Kind of Blue". The difference was - they were the shortest and simplest charts he'd ever written. Improvisation and charts are not mutually exclusive.
The evidence from the Plush video and from live recordings shows that SD solos certainly were improvised. Sometimes, you can hear that a player uses a certain phrase to start a solo off, and will use the same phrase in different performances of the same tune. Or sometimes they have an idea that they often use in the middle or end of a solo. This is common practise (you can hear it on re-releases of some jazz albums, where alternate takes are included). But, a large part of the solo will be pure on-the-spot improvisation.
I asked a question on Jon Herington's website, specifically about how much guidance he got for the guitar parts and solos he played on tour. His answer was pretty clear - he did what he thought would work well, and D+W would ask him to try something else if they didn't like what they heard. He did not have any guitar charts at all to follow. Here's his answer:
"In all the months of playing with Steely Dan, I think only once did I get anything close to a specific direction as to what to play. In general, I was completely free to play the gig the way I thought it should be played. Walter and I did get together early on before the band rehearsals to figure out who would play what parts, etc., but there was never a discussion about solo approach, sound, or anything like that.
The charts for the tunes were only chord charts with changes and occasionally voicings (for keyboard, never for guitar), but I always treated the records as the starting point for deciding what parts and voicings would work best, and then varied those parts as necessary or appropriate, or when asked by Donald or Walter to try something else if it seemed to them that the overall sound required something different."
Howard
Posted by: The Truth, jk..Maybe you sent Brett a Pink Flyod cover by mistake. On second thought, if Brett would have used your song, he would have had to cut one of the three songs Clas had on there. Speaking of Clas...weren't you told to leave!
Posted by: C, the Truth - what would you know about? At the time you were only 15 years old.
Posted by: Earl, DelawarePivotal Pete and NAJB: I'd point you both to the Making of Aja video if you haven't seen it (I'm pretty sure NAJB has seen it, since he/she was obviously misrepresenting their opinions in the previous posts). I think Dean Parks covers the topic best. He claims that D+W had the players learn the songs to the point of complete knowledge of the changes and such, and then they went a step further in improvising around what they knew. So they really weren't playing what was written, but rather played some original rhythm and lead parts that were the players' adaptations from what was written out.
As far as Pete's question about improvising the same thing 300 times getting old, i'd say that if you improvise the same passage, it ain't improvisation. It's reproduction. As I was stating before, I don't think that the solos on the album are cut-and-dry. There may be ideas that are carried through to the live performances, but I think most parts are negotiable. For instance, in the Plush video (as well as AIA), the coda to Kid Charlemagne typically starts in a similar fashion with the familiar line that we all know, but then diverges. And if you listen to the same video during Cousin Dupree, the end of the interlude has a similar riff to the recorded version. But the rest of the solo is pretty much an improvised bit.
So I guess I'm just saying that in some songs it seems there's a central idea to the first bar or so of the solo, and then from there it's freeform. While in others, it's basically whatever the artists wants to do, which is the way it probably oughta be.
And to touch on one other thing that you talk about, you say that it's tougher to appreciate a live, original solo than the one you hear on the album several times. That's where I think there's a big difference in those who enjoy jazz and those who enjoy pop/rock. The rock 'n roller's are more used to hearing it played like it was in the first place. Jazzophiles are awed by the prospect of something they've never heard before. So some people probably would much rather hear live what the musicians had to offer, while others would like a note-for-note rendition of what they have come to know and love. There's nothing wrong with either type of person, although I'd venture to guess that D+W would probably be guys who enjoyed improvisation and risktaking.
Great thread...
Earl
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaTo Jam or Not to Jam??
If I go to hear Steely Dan play Steely Dan, that's what I want to hear. If they want to try to stick closely to the sound on record, seems to me a) that's their prerogative; and b) most concertgoers prefer it that way.
I'd say part of this question around "jamming" hits at a larger issue with recorded versus live jazz or any improvisational music. First time you hear a solo (live or on record) you can kinda get it and enjoy it -- but if you have a chance to give it repeated listens you REALLY love it. Then go to a concert and it ain't the same -- and can never, in a live setting, be as good as the original because you can't anticipate and feel the music in the same way. (Especially so if the soloist is getting really creative around the chord changes).
The existential musical question: Is improv still improv if you've heard it 300 times?
Especially for SD, whose original recordings were so well done and which are now so well-known/loved, it must be a tough dilemma to decide when to stick to the original and when to let-er-rip. Gotta be a no-win situation.
Heard or read a comment from Becker marvelling at how the final recorded songs were the somewhat random result of many small decisions. It's not once-off, jam-session improv--but a painstaking artistic/creative process that's pretty much what most art IS.
On the question of OTHER artists, I have to say to me it's a bit like the creepy Beatlemania fad to hear people trying to completely copy SD songs. Not that I don't understand the motivation and devotion and effort that involves, it's just never going to be the same and it seems sad to try.
However, one of the points I was trying to make when discussing playing SD songs on a solo guitar is that these are great SONGS, not just great arrangements. To tell people they should not try to reinterpret those songs is silly and I'd be amazed if D&W really frowned upon that. I'm sure they would NOT LIKE (!) most reinterpretations, but I hope they'd be open-minded enough as songwriters to have pride when that takes place.
'Course, as I write that, I'm reminded of Otis Redding's comment when he heard Aretha Franklin's (FYI - Queen of Soul) recording of "Respect": "There goes my song." {probably not the exact quote} So maybe D&W will be upset no matter what.
On the other hand, some of the greatest records made have been reinterpretations. Joe Cocker was so good at it he made you forget it was a cover. It'd be great if there were more non-Muzak re-makes of SD songs with some new twists. Just expect a high failure rate ...
Posted by: jk, the question is - when is there going to be a walter becker tribute band? the horses, mose the fireman, FALL OF FRIGGIN 92, SAIL THE WATERWAY.
the other question is - when and where will there be the first walterfest?
the 3rd question is - wanna see dean parks live? go to grahamnash.com
just waiting for some businesses to do their xmas in july sales - i really love that!
well we figured it out - i did send my tune to schwang after all - must be some sort of cover-up-payoff-thing going on.
HI WENDY!
jk
Posted by: Mister Sam, (aka Zappa's Ghost)Hoops: Sorry if gave you the wrong impression or bruised a few egos. I've actually been enjoying this thread, and it's been great food for thought. Thanks for having the courage to share your opinions NAJB.
The "silliness" that I referred to was NOT the topic itself, but rather the debating strategy of some contributors to pretend that simply stating an unsubstantiated hunch or opinion somehow magically transforms it into a statement of fact.
Posted by: hoops, I have to agree with several of Sam/Dead Zappa points which he supports quite well.
At the same, time, I think this an enlightening discussion topic for debate. It's not "silliness" at all. I, for one, am glad "Not a Jam Band" brought up their opinions. Maybe this is common knowledge to Sam and others, but there are a lot of others whom I'm sure have not thought of this topic at all or at least about Steely Dan's creative processes.
Interesting stuff to be learned.
h
Posted by: Zappa's Ghost, In the Metal Leg StacksWelk, NAJB: Enough of this silliness. Do you just make things up as you go along? How about doing a little research next time before you choose to "enlighten us" with your special brand of disinformation?
So without further ado, I direct your attention to the Metal Leg archives at >a href=http://www.granatino.com/sdresource/ target="_blank">http://www.granatino.com/sdresource/
Here is a direct quote from a "Winter 1989 Interview with Walter Becker" (Metal Leg, Issue 14, Fall 1990):
"Q. That's also surprising because you and Fagen have a reputation for being studio tyrants and telling each musician exactly what to play.
W.B. Not at all. We would go in with a piano chart that showed Donald's chord voicings and Donald would usually go through the keyboard chart with the keyboard player. Because if you just write chord symbols, everyone will play them differently. The keyboard parts, in most cases, were so integral to what we were doing that a lot of the ingredients had to be there in that way. But then the keyboard player was free to articulate and add things to that, so there was a lot of just blowing. And that's basically what was written, No bass parts were written. Usually, Chuck Rainey would listen to our demo in which I played bass and take the things off that that he thought were appropriate and just come up with the rest. And since Chuck Rainey was my favorite bass player in the whole known universe, I vastly preferred for him to do things instead of playing bass myself.
The guitar players had nothing written for them and they would come up with their own parts. We would listen and suggest things but there certainly wasn't any score."
Is that straightforward enough for you NAJB?
Posted by: Lawrence Welk & Joe Rocissannno, The Great BeyondIt's the Steely Dan ORCHESTRA.
An orchestra plays what the band leader wants and occassionally gives the band members spots to stretch. Simple enough?
When's Walter gonna get his own side project/band? That would be mighty sweet.
Posted by: Earl, DelawareNAJB: I was just referring you to some solos from the live shows, in case you were looking for that type of thing, since you are skeptical about the authenticity of the "solos" at the live shows.
Oh yes, and explain this for me. If they want something played exactly as written, why don't they just do what every other commercial band does and have a recorded version play the music while they use musical nobodies on stage? Or better yet, why even tour? If they want the music perfect, then why would they go out and tour where it could be DESTROYED by hacks like Jon Herington, Chris Potter, and Ricky Lawson (2000 Drummer of the Year BTW)? Sorry Not A Jam Band, just doesn't quite add up to me. But hey, you're the know it all around here. I guess that you've recovered the contract signed by all players that requires that they play EVERY SONG exactly as written or else their checks will be held back? Or maybe you have some tapes or charts that were scripted out that show the solos notated out down to the last trill? Or maybe you know one of the musicians who was subjected to this torture?
I'm glad this guy thinks the live shows are unoriginal from each other...that means that the chances are good this dude won't be at the one I'm attending.
Earl
Posted by: Not a Jam Band, I didn't say the players don't know HOW to improvise. I said, Donald doesn't want or intend them to improvise.
Earl, I hardly consider a little tiny improv during player intros, as what we are talking about.
Cleon, agreed. Wayne was outta place. Thank god for Herington.
But back to my point. Steely players play note for note what Donald wants. That's a GOOD thing. You who think Steely songs need to be covered with a radically different arrangement (like Broadway Steve, Hoops, etc.) are the ones with the problem.
Posted by: jk, THIS JUST IN!
i wrote our boy andy (don't you just love that andy boy rappini?) at mungohumungo records and asked him if they had any rarities or umpteenth "best of" packages in the works for sd.
he said, "Can't get Steely back on track. They are recording a new disc, and while they are doing that, it's impossible to get their attention."
hey andy, tell them you are going to release dallas, sall the waterway and a live version of all too mobile - that'll get their attention!
jk
ps. the lonestar shows were brilliant. donald solos, drunk chakas, will lee trombone player jokes, hotshots and all!
Posted by: Woody, :)Bonz...It really doesn't matter how you spell it. Joe's dead! He sure ain't listing...I mean listening.
Zappa... I never remember seeing any charts in front of Bumpus. Am I wrong? Can he read?
Not A Jam Band.... That JAM (1993) during Teahouse On The Tracks was soooo cool/HOT! Who says those boys can't improvise?!
Posted by: Zappa's Ghost, Jazz is not dead. It just smells funny!Not a Jam Band: B&F are indeed studio perfectionists. I'm sure everyone can agree with that characterization. At the same time, though, B&F are also major jazz afficionados. And, since spontaneity and improvisation are two defining characteristics of the genre, it's hard picture them trying to stifle the creativity of the studio studs that they employ. Ultimately, NAJB, you seem to argue (mistakenly, I might add) that spontaneity and improvisation are somehow incompatible with the notion of STRUCTURE.
Best as I can tell, all SD solos are improvised to some extent (even those that appear on the studio albums.) B&F generally DO NOT write out note-for-note solos for their sidemen. True, they're apt to refine the structure and content of a hired gun's first draft of a solo. It's THEIR NAME ON THE BOX, however, so that is their prerogative. Interviews with Dan sidemen reveal that B&F will readily ask them to insert specific idiomatic references or stylistic flourishes to punch up perceived weak spots in a solo.
In the end, though, B&F don't want studio robots who will perform every dot, tie, or slur of a rigid, detailed score. Instead, the historical record suggests that B&F seek to prod, inspire, and then capture individualistic, virtuoso-like performances that will support their vision for the finished product.
As evidence, I refer you to the Making of Aja. The Peg solos that got left on the cutting room floor make it abundantly clear that there wasn't a prewritten solo per se. Also, comments by Dean Parks (RE: Josie), Chuck Rainey (RE: Peg), and Wayne Shorter (RE: the title track) yield useful insights into the SD studio experience. (Note: You might also check out the Jay Graydon interview at Granatino's website if you want further insight into B&F's studio process.)
NAJB, when you suggest that there is only one way to play a SD song, it makes me wonder if you've ever REALLY LISTENED to them in concert. [The first time I saw them in 1993, I went there looking for exact replicas of the album cuts and cringed at every little deviation. Sadly, this nearly ruined my enjoyment of the concert. The next tour, I relaxed my expectations about "Live Dan", and discovered that different (from the album) doesn't necessarily mean worse (than the album.)] With few exceptions (notably RITY), the overall feel of the live material remains true to that on the albums. The arrangements are, however, often different from the album versions. This goes for the rhythm parts and horn section harmonies as well as the solos.
So why, you may ask, do they use written charts in concert? There are a number of reasons NAJB. First, harmonically and rhythmically, Dan tunes are more complex than your garden variety 3-chord pop tune. SD bandmembers are also, by and large, good sight readers, and the charts make it less likely that someone will get lost during a performance. And, since B&F are relatively unconcerned about the visual content of their shows, the symphony orchestra-like vibe imparted by having sheet music stands on stage is obviously not a concern to them.
Ultimately, though, I suspect that B&F develop detailed charts for the setlist mainly because failure to do so increases the possibility of a train wreck on stage. Can't you just see B&F cringing at the thought of leaving such things to chance?
Last point. AIA is, no doubt, "over-dubbed all over" because: (a) B&F's standards are impossibly high and (b) modern technology just makes it too easy for them to do so. For SD, like Zappa (who was also known for adding over-dubs to "live material"), the ends apparently justify the means.
Posted by: Bonz, Oops!!!! Hoopsie, could you change "listing" to "listening" ????
THANG-Q!
Posted by: Bonzai, Donald Fagen could crack walnuts between his buttocks? I guess that proves it, Donald is the buns of Steely Dan and explains the new exercise video, "Donald Fagen: Buns of Steel(y Dan)."
Now listen: Steely Dan songs musn't be played any other way than The Donald intends. Are you listing Joe Roccisano?
Posted by: The Truth, fade back to yellowClas- The only thing 'embarrassing' about that Lonestar Roadhouse show, was that you were in the audience. Get lost pal.
Posted by: Earl, DelawareNot a Jam Band: Go download the tour version of "Daddy Don't Live" and listen during the player intros. I would suspect that most of those 4-bar solos were improvised.
During the Plush video, I actually at times questioned whether Fagen was even playing the Rhodes. I know they did some editing even of that video, but there were times when things just didn't add up (his solo ending to Pretzel Logic for instance). I think Becker improvises his solos to some extent, but I also think that he follows a recognizable structure that follows the solo on the recorded version. I haven't seen them live (can't wait for the next tour), so I may be surprised to see them repeat the same interlude in successive performances.
Earl
Posted by: Clas @ Work (oh no I'm a waiter again!), CincinnatiIt's worse than that. I heard Fagen play a "solo" back at the Lone Star Roadhouse 1992 or was it 1991. That was embarrassing both for Fagen and the audience.
Posted by: Cleon, AlabamaNot a Jam Band wrote: "When was the last time you saw a Steely Dan member improvise a solo? You haven't!"
Yes I have! In 1996 I saw Wayne Krantz trying to improvise many solos...and they all sucked! Your point is well taken.
Posted by: Not a Jam Band, "Incredible," "impeccable," "perfection" and "grace" are just a few of the many superlatives I'd use to describe the music of Steely Dan. But "spontaneous" and "improvisational" aren't on that list of adjectives.
Of course "Alive In America" is over-dubbed all over! What would you expect from a band that built its reputation on eeking, primping and tweaking to perfection!? A jam band with warts and all??? No way! Becker and Fagen spend years on getting a collection of songs just right. Once they have the arrangements perfected, it's pretty much meant not to be changed. Sure, for the tour, Fagen did a few tweaks and adjustments to the charts to compensate for these songs being played before an audience. Probably also to compensate for ABC Records forcing commercialism into the production of their early albums. But like Glen Miller or Henry Mancini, every Steely Dan song has a very well thought-out set of charts that are definitive. Why do you think every member of the Steely Dan Orchestra has a chart in front of them? When was the last time you saw a Steely Dan band member improvise a solo? You haven't!
The songs are to be played exactly one way that Donald has carefully thought out. They are pretty much NOT meant to be played other than the way Donald intended. Sure, Donald is so anal that he could crack walnuts with his butt-cheeks, but that's how perfection is achieved. You people who insist on playing Steely Dan songs in ways that are different, are deluding yourselves. Steely Dan songs aren't meant for jam bands. Go cover Allman or Phish instead. Has Phish ever covered a Steely Dan album in concert? Of course not! They understand Steely Dan music has very precise arrangements not to be deviated from Fagen's charts.
The beauty is in the details---and Fagen has worked them all out. Anything else is missing the point of Steely Dan music. Why do you think the plush video features Steely Dan commending the Steely Damned for ACCURATELY reproducing Steely Dan's music? You sure the hell didn't hear him commending Broadway Steve for putting a new spin on their songs. Steely Dan music is already tightly spun! Tight and precise with definitive arrangements. THAT'S WHAT STEELY DAN IS ALL ABOUT! If you want a Jam band, go see DMB or Blues Traveler!
Posted by: Howard, @home
Dennis - I included that D B C E chord voicing in my original post. I play it x5955x - not too much of a stretch, and it sounds good. Gets easier if you move it up the neck a few frets.
Mister Sam - I agree 150% with your comment about trying out chord fragments and/or open strings in the quest to find suitable guitar chord voicings. You really have to explore all possibilities, and mixing in an open string with a few fretted notes will often make it easier to squeeze in some of that tasty dissonance.
Pivotal Pete - re 3rd World Man. The chords for this that are in the "complete" songbook are particularly bad. Go for Earl's suggestion: x 8 10 10 9 x and x 8 8 9 8 x.
The transcriptions in the songbooks should always be treated with a certain amount of caution. Some songbooks are better than others of course, but the choice of chord voicing in all of is not as good as it should be. The "complete" book is much worse than most, with songs in the wrong key etc.
I have more info and reviews on the SD songbooks for those interested:
http://www.jmdl.com/howard/steelydan/songbooks.html
Howard
Posted by: W1P, LAPivotal Pete, then your wife will LOVE The Steely Damned, since Bob sings nothing like Donald at all! http://www.thesteelydamned.com
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaBwaySteve-
Thanks lots for your story. I've seen others praise your version of Caves here on the Bluebook, which means it must be good. I'll have to scroll down and see how to get the CD.
While I would not venture to put any of my work on record, your situation parallels mine in a few ways. My wife (we're still married after 17 years) HATES Steely Dan (mainly she can't get past DF's voice) and it's been a real pain for me though the years.
However, my kids are a bit more open-minded and one of our traditions is for me to wake them up to an a-cappella/slap drumming version of Bodhissatva. A few years ago I began adding other stylistic versions of Bodhissatva (country sample: "...would you take me bah the hay-und..."). It works pretty well and I've thought of writing W+D to suggest trying to do it themselves. (So sue me.)
My son (9) actually requests my solo version of Daddy Don't LITNYCNM and I've played Deacon Blues for my daughter (13) and she stayed for the entire ordeal and complimented it.
And you're right, there are at least several up-tempo numbers that work, Josie being one.
On the vein of kids and musical tastes: I'm optimistic the younger generation will pick up the SD banner because by-and-large kids today are MUCH more musically aware than most adults of today were as kids. And they'll be able to "get" SD because they're likely to be more open-minded.
I've been to elementary school events where the 3rd graders know the words to most 50s hits. Then they'll sing along with Beatles. Then they'll sing along to "Give Up the Funk."
HomeAtLast, I hope you'll allow that there's some great country music to enjoy (musicianship in the country genre is about the best of any popular style) and SD showed some affinity for it in With A Gun, for example.
What's great about today is that we parents have more control during car-time to expose kids to our faves. So I try to give my kids a MIX of stuff and it works pretty well. They get the current stuff on their own time, so of course my propagandizing skews to past greats. My son (the 9-year-old) is a Louis Prima fan, and will request such eclectic items as Joni Mitchell's The Jungle Line, Benny Goodman's Sugarfoot Stomp and gems by Joao Gilberto, the master Brazilian samba vocalist. I played them "Take 5" and had fun telling them THIS is the Brubeck you've heard about in "New Frontier." They're starting to sing along to Gilbert and Sullivan, too.
On the other hand, my wife and I get to share with the kids and enjoy new stuff through NOW and other collections (though lately those seem only to have boring electo-hits). A sampling of Blink 182, Missy Elliott and Gorillaz keeps you from feeling like a complete dinosaur.
Anyway, maybe my experience is rare, but from what I can see there's a lot more open-mindedness among many kids today because they get to hear more types of music. When I was young, it was either Top 40 or adult pop (Sinatra, etc.).
Posted by: Paige, Santa BarbaraI was in the pharmacy picking up my anti-depressants the other day. As I was waiting in line, I could hear faintly in the background, a familiar tune. But something didn't sound quite right. I couldn't put my finger on it...NO! it can't be...a "muzak" version of "Peg."
The wait in line became nearly intolerable. By the time I reached the counter I was a nervous wreck. I asked them to immediately double my order.
-P
Posted by: Little Wild One, Home At Lastbway Steve: Having just spent the better part of two days within a week's time on a road trip with my girls (read 10 and almost 7), you're right, when they appreciate "music" as opposed to the latest pop/cross-over sensation, it is a DEAL.
One of my favorite vacation memories this year is cruisin' west on I-10 with the vocals to "Bad Sneakers" in at least 2 part harmony (maybe 3, depending on your pitch-ov).
My kids are currently into country (yuk) music, which I abhore. However, provided their tender years, I pray to the Trailer Park Godess that this is a passage of youth and ignorance that will indeed pass. (Sometimes I think they like it just to piss me off, too.)
Any suggestions for getting the young un's through this tough time would be appreciated.
Posted by: bwaySteve, NY metro areaTo Pivotal Pete and others:
I have been playing solo acoustic arrangements of Steely Dan songs for several years and have even played a few all Steely Dan sets. Because my voice is at the lower range of Tenor I early on began transposing the tunes to sit comfortably in my range.Since doing the song Peg on a dare by some co-workers I have hashed out chords for all the tunes I have done by ear.My set includes several of the slower songs mentioned in earlier posts but I also do bodhisattva, Green Earings, Josie and other uptempo ones.While I do not include instrumental breaks like on the records, each song has a riff or theme from the original recording out of my love and respect for the band. I have no plans to do a Polka or Bluegrass version ever.
I would say that the singlemost important stylistic element, imparting an authentic feel to the material is my right hand flatpicking technique. To make the driving songs work you have to have the funk.
Working up this material has been the most rewarding music project I have ever attempted. I have written songs all my life and until I had all this Dan material I was just another downtown wanabe schlepping his latest product along with the rest of them. Performing Steely Dan has really set me apart from the other strummers and to be honest at my age this has been a real plus.
My rendition of The Caves Of Altamira is on the newly released Steely Knives compilation and it is representative of my approach.
My ex who is in the biz, put me down for being a Steely Dan fanatic for years. She considered me an obsessive and a throwback.When my kids would stay over at my place and hear me doing one Steely Dan song after another they got a little concerned too.When the Band won the Grammys, the ex considered me a visionary.When my son heard Green Earrings he said, "Dad , you really nailed that one"
When your kid complements you it is a BIG deal.
Posted by: Who is The Poster, Coroner has ruled that John Entwistle died of a "significant amount of cocaine" in his system. His death was ruled accidental.
You would think he check with his Doctor if there was any possible drug interactions with his heart medication and cocaine.
Reminds me of Jeff P.
Posted by: Clas, JukkasjärviPivotal Pete - be sure to make that a C7, the seven is important, it gets that classical music feel, diminished feel.
Posted by: Earl, DelawarePivotal Pete: I think that D+W felt compelled to write a few commercial successes at the time of CBAT. They were always fans of jazz, but I have a feeling that in the beginning they understood they needed a following to get their music out. I consider them the antithesis of typical bands...I think they sold out a little in the beginning to be able to stretch their creative limits later on. I also think that Aja and Gaucho are much more highly orchestrated. It seems they spent a lot of time overdubbing to get it just right.
As for 3rd World Man/Were You Blind, I think it really lacks a groove, except for (maybe) the interludal sections. I like the song, but it's much more of a ballad. Not what I would typically call a Steely Dan song.
Also, the way I would play 3rd World Man is X 8 10 10 9 X and (I think) X 8 8 9 8 X. It's pretty simple once you get used to it.
Earl
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaVery interesting to get insights into SD for solo guitar, etc. (Thanks to Mr Sam, Earl, Dennis, Howard, Peg and others!)
I have a book that has all mainstream recorded songs through Gaucho (been realizing I need to get some newer books!) and have found quite a few songs that I think can be done pretty well (even with my limited skills). From a perspective of interesting chord changes and really distinctive composition, it seems to me that there was a significant "leap forward" around Aja and Gaucho. Would others agree?
At the same time, as I did a mental mini-inventory of songs that "work well" in my experience (Deacon Blues, Third World Man, Home at Last) it dawned on me that the calmer tone of that period transfers well to the solo singer/strummer and are fun because the chords by themselves make you go "Wow." For me, it's especially fun to kind-of unearth the foundations of the slick and ever-delightful arrangements and find they're also slick and delightful.
Not that some earlier songs don't have some pretty cool chord progressions -- Bodhissatva is one example -- I sure can't do THAT on my 6-string. (Can't imagine a Coffee House rendition of My Old School, either). But from a strictly interesting progressions point of view, songs like Barry Town or Pearl of the Quarter are just not as remarkable (though I love the songs!).
Curious how other (better) musicians feel about the songs when they get down to that level of dissecting the music.
As far as experimenting goes, I found a trick (?) for Third World Man that helps mortals like me get pretty close to the original arrangement. I'll try to share it and would appreciate anyone who understands to let me know if it's useful:
The initial chord (in my book) is Fmi, and you get the second chord just by lifting the "grand bar" so you're playing: 033000. That lets you do the "Bah-Bum-Bah-Bum-Bah-Bah" part and the three-beat bass line (the low E and A strings of Fmi:[13]3111) without having to move your hand all over the neck.
In the fade-out, you get the same effect when you do the "echo" of the "Bah-Bum-Bah-Bum-Bah-Bah" part. You change from Fmi to C on third fret and just lift your second through fourth fingers. So you alternate: 335553 - 333333 ...
A good whistler or harmonica player can add in the Larry Carlton bit, and there you have it!
One more comment on Third World Man: Someone asked a while back why W&D abandoned "Were You Blind That Day?" which I'd never heard of. Downloaded it and it seemed apparent right away that the earlier lyric was preachy in a very un-Danlike way. It's rare that their lyrics actually condemn any of the characters they portray. Like Shakespeare (!) the story and tone does that work for them--while usually we recognize a bit of ourselves in the character.
Would I ride out Sunset to the sea for a Kirshwasser, etc.? Hmmm. Lemme get back to you ...
Sorry to take up so much space. Family's out of town and have too much free time!
Posted by: Schwinn, Austin, AmericaDeepak Lurker: Knives Live?! It's doable. Not too practical but maybe Becker & Fagen's Transporter will be on the market soon...
Anyway, I'll make the burgers!
My thanks to everyone on the Blue Book who's ordered a copy of Steely Knives. I've taken a number of orders from names I didn't recognize so thanks for helping out and keeping the project going.
And just because everyone else is shamelessly plugging, you can order your own copy of Steely Knives at http://www.banyantreenet.com/tm2002/
Hot in the Shade,
BB
Posted by: Mr. Siam, I think Joe's cover of King of the World is as good as the original.
Billboard:
The reunited Joe Jackson Band has slated a handful of U.K. dates in September to warm up for planned recording sessions that will, as previously reported, yield an album celebrating the 25th anniversary of Jackson's debut, "Look Sharp!" (A&M). So far, five dates have been set, starting Sept. 17 in Bristol, England, and ending 10 days later in Northampton. A London show is also in the planning, according to the artist's official Web site.
The tour and as-yet-untitled project will reunite bassist Graham Maby, guitarist Gary Sanford, drummer Dave Houghton, and Jackson on vocals and piano. The group formed in 1978 and stayed together through constant recording and touring until late 1980. Along with "Look Sharp!," the group produced two of Jackson's subsequent classic albums, 1979's "I'm the Man" and 1980's "Beat Crazy," both on A&M.
Posted by: Mister Sam, Out Back by the WoodshedAs fortune would have it, I figured out most of my "Steely Dan for one piece orchestra" arrangements using the Complete to Aja book. Ironically, though, the worst shortcomings of the book proved the most beneficial to my music education.
As previous posters have noted, Complete is a P-V-G book, and many of the songs (esp. those from Aja) are written in the wrong key. Hence, developing one-guitar arrangements for songs like Josie or Home At Last necessarily involved transposing keys, exploring chord substitution possibilities, and revoicing/inverting chords to get the best overall sound. It's often been a struggle, and, truth be told, I'm a poor sight reader (which only complicates matters.) In the end, though, it's always a great learning experience. (My mantra: Anything worth having in this world is worth working for.)
My advice to the un-initiated:
[1] Invest in a good chord dictionary that displays some of the more obscure fingerings/voicings. Sometimes your choice of positions on the neck makes all the difference.
[2] Don't be afraid to explore. Using chord fragments (ie, inside work) and open strings will often give you the degree of open-ness/density that you seek. Let your ears be your guide.
[3] Understand that you'll never replicate the album sound completely. Accepting this unavoidable fact will ultimately be quite liberating since it'll give you license to be creative. (Good examples of making a tasty lemonade with less voices are Joe Jackson's King of the World and Ben Folds's Barrytown.)
[4] Above all, don't forget to have fun! That's the whole point, now, isn't it?
Posted by: Earl, DelawareDennis: I think you and Howard are on the same page for the most part. Obviously the biggest limitation of a guitar is that if you want to play tightly-spaced chords (such as the 2nd and the minor third in an Gm9 or Gm7add2, however you want to notate it) you either need to disjoint your fingers or the less painful alternate tuning. I guess as a musician I would much rather try to play a chord in normal tuning and endure the pain of stretching than to change the tuning (why does that seem to be the wimpy way???).
Anyway, when I play from sheet music, I tend to just dredge through using the most accessible fingerings for a chord. After I've played a song for a while, I try to look for ways to accentuate certain relationships and maybe to search for some interesting contrary movement in the chord progression. Illustrating the first point, if I see a Gadd9 (mu-major), I might play just the 2nd (A, D fret 7) and the 3rd (B, G fret 4), and potentially add the 5th (D ,A fret 5) just to give it a little more body. I do this especially when there is an issue w/ speed because fingering the 6-string Gadd9 (357433) isn't exactly easy.
Happy pickin',
Earl
Posted by: Dennis, ChicagoYes, now I see that you guys were talking about doing Dan tunes "solo". I do a solo version of Deacon Blues that works very well. On guitar, it is easy enough to play 4, 5, and even 6 notes of a chord, it's all down to technique and which notes to leave out at that point. There are jazz guitarists who play things with much more harmonic movement, inventiveness etc. than a lot of Dan tunes so with patience it can be done. Not to take anything away from SD music. A lot of Dan tunes are fairly easy to play by yourself, a lot of Maj7, Mi7 chords, slash chords etc. Most of the time, I try to leave the 5th out of the chord and sometimes even the root as they are the least essential to the harmony in a lot of cases. There is a book for solo Dan music that I used to have, borrowed to a "friend" and never got it back. Fucker. If I can find out who put it out I'll post on here for you.
Howard, I'm sitting here with a guitar and can find no reasonable way to voice your D-B-C-E chord because it's to much of a stretch and with open strings it's just not a good voicing. My suggestion by note and string are D(5th string), G(4th), B(3rd) and E (2nd). Fingering is 2-3-1-4 respectively. I have seen this voicing in a lot of tunes, check out Hey Nineteen. You have the "meat" of the CMaj7 with D in the bass! Voila. Another suggestion I have for you guitarists is to get the "Play it like it is" recorded versions of books that are put out by the guitar magazines. They are right on the money usually and don't give those bad, fake ass versions of the tunes. I wish someone would put the whole catalog out with these books. It would make all of our lives a bit easier.
Dennis "That's just my opinion, I could be wrong" Shepherd
Posted by: Steveedan, I agree about the St. Louis, MO from 1993 CD. It is a double CD and quite a long concert. When I listen to it (I probably fabricate this feeling in my mind but) I can almost hear the audience's dumbfoundedness that they are actually at a concert for Steely Dan. It felt like every song was a surprise and a delight. The AIA is very tight, and has a jam-packed pace to it. It is totally unrealistic, but, I do enjoy it anyway.
I landed my Pretzel Logic band another couple of gigs. One is a private party on Sunday, August 18th, and the other one is a festival gig at Hermosa Beach on Labor Day Monday, Sept. 2nd from 11 AM to 2 PM.
This is not one of my patented SHAMELESS PLUGGING type of announcements, but, now I guess you have all been forwarned.
The Pretzel Logic band rehearsal tomorrow night is going to have a very special guest listening to us. It is none other than Andy Metzger !!!
He's at (or around) UCLA for a few weeks, so I asked him to come check us out.
I must again humbly state my utter gratitude at all the guestbooks and other SD websites because over the last year, I went from being an ex-keyboard player in an SD trib band (from the Steely Fan Band) to getting to know so many great Steely Dan fans and website hosts, getting a chance to meet some Steely Dan band alumni, and of course, to forming yet another SD trib band.
By the way, thanks to the person who posted about the SteelyWonder band from San Francisco. I swapped e-mails with them. They are pretty darn good, and only have 5 or 6 people in the band. So at this point, I know of 5 SD trib bands in California:
The Steely Damned - San Diego
The Steely Fan Band - Newport Beach
Doctor Wu - Venice Beach
Pretzel Logic - Los Angeles
SteelyWonder - San Francisco
so ... do ya see why California is so hip?
Take care everyone.
Steveedan
Posted by: Honey, I will be thereLoenzo,
The only thing 'live" on 'Alive In America' is the audience applause!
St. Louis '93 (boot) rocks/sounds much, much better.
Clas- Welcome back to the 'Blue bore'
Posted by: Deepak Lurker, Steve It's the farmost dannish of all that you are just knowing about your most lovely cave cover. come to think of it , your choice to cover is most sublime.
And I love too how much more Steely Knives is spoken of here than from its loins. I guess that would be kudos to you, Hoops, for providing yet another opus.
the album is good. It would be great to hear it all live. How 'bout it, Schwinn?
Gina, your song last time round gave me shivers and this one gently hits every part of me. so so sweet and brutal. yeow.
It all just rocks --- even the order of songs. W1P, I'm so sorry your Floyd tune didn't get there... I guess I understand how that happened, and I think I hear it wafting underneath the ones that 'made it' .... but then, sometimes my cd player turns backwards.
know what i mean, pinkyBean?
Posted by: hoops, gee, I'm exhaustedIn reverse order of postings:
Lorenzo: "Beasus" Beasley, Beeazalbub, Jesus. Cool. AiA Overdubs. Well, it was a Steely Dan album and Fagen produced. How's that for a starter.
Dennis: Cool thread. I hope you didn't pay Shania Twain for a lap dance in Nashville.
All: Please commit about Labor Day weekend in Chicago with Jazzfest and so Bob and Dennis can make plans :-) email hoops@dandom.com
All: If you have a Live365.com radio station, be sure to get it set up for billing by Wednesday or it will likely go away.
I can understand several criticisms of Elton John, but Gus Dudgeon and his wife were comeplete Aces, man. I'm majorly saddened about their death.
Nitey.
h
Posted by: Lorenzo, "Oh Michael, Oh Beasus!"Steveee:
Beasus's comments on Steely Dan's 96 tour reminded me of a perpetual question I have: Why did Alive in America from 93 and 94 have all the life overdubbed out of it? Like a recording of great performances only to have falsies implanted. How come Becker isn't creditted as a producer on that one?
L-bo
Posted by: Howard, @lunch
Dennis: the original question about playing SD on guitar was in the context of just a guitar+voice solo situation, so my post was mostly relating to that context, when you have to come up with a single guitar part that captures the "overall sound" of the song. Not easy!
You're right of course, that in a band situation the guitar has much more freedom. You have a lot of choices of things to play, given that bass and keyboards are providing a lot of the harmonic structure - some things will work, some will make things too dense.
With that Cmaj7/D example though, you said you might drop the C note from what you played and just use G B E G. For a straight Cmaj7 this is fine, as you know the bass will play C, but with a Cmaj7/D the bass is on D and you don't know for sure if the keyboards are going to play a C in the chord. I know, we're getting down to fine detail here... with that particular chord though, it's the clash of the B against C that gives it that special sound (as it appears in Black Cow, Babylon Sisters etc). You can't play the full chord (D B C E G) on the guitar, so you have to drop something. I quite like to keep some of the dissonance where possible, so will either drop the bass or top note and play maybe D B C E (x5955x).
But it's all down too choices - what sounds you like, what works for the band or solo context you're in...
Howard
Posted by: Peg, incognitoDennis: I'm currently arranging keyboard-to-vocal accompaniment (we do not have any other players yet) on my own tunes and am using the same premise you mentioned. It's an important principle that should be followed with keyboard, too. Even with just a keyboard and singer, the less, the better. I have shifted bass lines around (sometimes for her sake) and am learning how to best show off her voice, playing only what's necessary. Even though I am the "bass" player, I am still trying to find the best possible sounds using the fewest possible keys. Nothing worse than an overbearing piano, I say.
The fact that the Dan spent quite a bit of time and effort (and still do) working out arrangements is to their credit. It's not the easy way to do things, which is the way many other musicians seem to take.
Posted by: C, Exactly.
Posted by: Clas @ Fabbricazione... lavoro... impiego?, VersaillesDennis - well said, excactly my point.
Posted by: Earl, DelawareDennis: Couldn't agree w/ you more. If you a part of a group, it makes the guitarists part a little easier, since the player can do a number of things. What's great about being a guitarist is that you really need to have an idea of what's going on around you, and in essense you become an arranger. You need to be aware of what is being done, and try to come up with things that will enhance the song while not covering up the melody or other soloists. I think that's one of the greatest things about the Dan as time progressed...they became more in depth with the arranging of their songs on the later albums. But I guess my point was that there are so many techniques a guitar player can utilize to fill spaces and add colorful interest to a piece of music...I wish I knew 1/4 of those techniques.
Earl
Posted by: Gina, Acoustic Sun MountainSteven Baker!!
Ahem, so you got Book of Liars down as well already???
What i especially liked in your rendition of Caves was the tiny "slide" in your voice singing "Hollywood" the second time going up instead of down and taking this a little further into "they" ...
That's my fav moment in the song!
But i noticed you signed your email addy, so ...
" One left stranded at the zero crossing"
G.
Posted by: Dennis, Back from Nashville NAMMI just got back from Nashville NAMM (work for Hughes and Kettner guitar amps) and saw some great musicians there as well as some absolutely fucking horrible, frustrated, drunken country musicians.
Just a few thoughts on how I approach playing SD tunes. Guitar is a midrange/treble instrument so on a lot of the songs it is not necessary to play bass notes because there is already bass being played by piano and bass and If I'm playing bass notes to it tends to muddy things up. This is an approach to rhythm guitar that has been around for years and years so it's nothing new or exclusive to just Steely Dan tunes. So, for example for a CMaj7/D I would generally just play the notes of a CMaj7 - C E G B (or G B E G on guitar from the D string up, no need to play a C as the B is what makes the chord a Maj 7) and let the bass imply the D unless it is absolutely necessary to play the D. Something like the Chorus to Pretzel Logic has a lot of "slash chords" like D/E which means D Major with an E in the bass. I do play the E in the middle register which isn't really a bass note but it gives that distinct "slash chord" sound. On the verses to Dr. Wu I play all triads and the bass moves around. A CMaj7 triad is an Emi/C basically so I play the same triad for both CMaj7 and Emi and that happens quite a lot in Wu and many, many other Steely Dan tunes. Sometimes it is necessary to play a four note chord like Dmi7 - D-A-C-F but most of the time I'll just play A-C-F without the D and it sounds much tighter with everyone else. IMHO it's not a matter of what's POSSIBLE to play on guitar in SD tunes but what is NECESSARY to play as an ensemble player and that's the way I have to think when in a 10 piece band. If you are not a guitarist, sorry to bore you, if you are you should already know this! :-)
Oh, the shameless plug:
Katy Lied has some upcoming gigs, here they are:
Aug 10th Prairie Rocks in Schaumberg 9:00 to 1:00
Aug 24th Arlington Heights Fest Noon to 3:00
Aug 24th Harry's of Arlington Heights 9:00 to 1:00
Sep 2nd Schaumberg Fest - Time TBA
Sep 7th Rory's in Addison 9:00 to 1:00
Posted by: Steveedan, Dr. Mu and Kevin B. -
I get what you both are saying. I, being a keyboard player who prides himself in being a good study of various players' styles, and certainly the style of the Steely Dan touring keyboard players, the Three B's - Bernhardt, Beasley, and Baker, I have actually taken an interest in the solos that they all play in all the songs that I have recordings of.
My example (and I posted about this on St. Al's guestbook many months ago) of this is with the song Green Earrings. I have listened to many solos played on this one song, and have put together an amalgam of my favorite parts from these guys, as well as a little bit of my own soloing.
The reason for this "paying tribute" method is that I came to believe long ago, that I was not able to come up with a solo better than that which Fagen and Becker settled on with the original recordings, so I set out to learn them all - keyboard, guitar, and sax solos. To me they are so enthralling and, I get a kick out of being able to play them.
I certainly can spontaneously come up with my own solos any time I wish, but, as has been said recently, by disecting their music, I have learned much and my technique and knowledge has grown as a result of it.
Steveedan
Posted by: DrMµ, TejasSteveEDan: Miles was after those "magic" moments where one player makes the slightest move and the others follow. A classic example is at the 2:48 mark of Blue in Green from kind of Blue. "Trane sets up a beautiful phrase that picks up the pace. Bill Evans and Paul Chambers follow as if of one mind...and that happens pretty often, of course, in that classic album.
On the '93 tour AiA version of Book of Liars there's one of those moments during the instrumental break where Bernhardt and Erskine feed off of each other...structure sets up the best spontaneity
Posted by: Kevin B., BostonSteveedan:
Thanks for the info John B! Sounds like you had a great time. I saw all three Steely Dan tours and personally liked Warren Bernhardt and Ted Baker better then "Beaz". Just my own personal preference.
Posted by: Steveedan, For you Blue --
I must admit that when I was hanging out with John Beasley, I was doing most of the talking. I wanted him to know that there was a burgeoning tribute band cottage industry on the rise. I told him that I had a couple of 1996 Steely Dan shows on CD (Beasley was the keyboardist and musical director of the 1996 tour) that I was going to make for him. He said that he had some limited stuff from that tour but that he has not taken the time (or had the time) to listen to it. If you go to his website and read up on his achievements, it's not hard to understand why.
He said that Becker and Fagen were very exacting in what they wanted, and that was the reason why their music sounds the way it does (which we here all know). He said that everything is worked out ahead of time and the chord voicings and harmonies are arrived at in a very careful way, and that it was important to maintain the harmonic relationships that were arrived at on the original recordings (with the exception of the reworked sections of the live versions of certain songs).
He said that Miles Davis also had a way of getting his musicians to maintain the originally voiced chords and arrangements, but, that in Miles' case, he stressed the importance of playing not what you know, but rather how you feel.
Remember, this wasn't an interview, or a quiet conversation over a cup of coffee tucked away in a cafe, but, it was during a soundcheck with Lee Ritenour giving notes to the sound guys and the band, and technical kinks to iron out, and it was also after the show when many adoring fans rushed the stage to congratulate all the musicians.
I found John sitting in the front row after the show next to a blond in a black dress with a plunging neckline (that was down a round her belly). When this woman first entered the "theatre", I heard everyone around me commenting on her dress, and that she must have wanted to be the center of attention if she was going to wear a dress like that. Well, it worked. I was talking to her husband after the show, and he told me that she was married previously to one of the guys from Motley Crew. Somehow, it fits. Any you should have seen the way she fit into that dress boys.
As I mentioned before, John was an extremely gracious and laid-back guy. A very normal, regular guy. His down to earth manner impressed me almost as much as his stellar playing. Beasley is truly one of the best keyboard players on today's music scene.
Steveedan
Posted by: Blue Man, Wowie!Ben! Another Steely Dan tribute band?!!! In the 80's when I was going crazy for Steely Dan music, their was not one tribute band that I could find..anywhere! Now in the year 2002, their are 500 of them!
Speaking of Steely Dan tribute bands, Steveedan! What did Beaz say?? Come on, share a little...would ya?
Posted by: Ben, San FranciscoSteely Dan / Stevie Wonder tribute band live in San Francisco this weekend!
Come see Steely Wonder play live in San Francisco this Saturday July 27th 2002 at Irelands 32 on Geary in the Richmond district around 9:30 (nominal cover charge). It's gonna be a great time.
http://www.steelywonder.com
Posted by: Peg, SkinskinnatiHoward, I have to say "amen" to your sentiment about how much the Dan's music can teach! I have learned volumes, myself. Am still learning.
And as you said, the bass line and chords move independently. Those piano-made bass lines, in turn, give a different sound and texture to a piece. It can be a lonely G# on the bass line to a chord that's written as an E chord, but yet, that one G# also brings other overtones with it. Not quite as brain-twisting as playing a Bach fugue, but close. And very fun.
Posted by: Steven Baker, bwaySteveReading through the various comments and commentaries here, I am amazed I was not drawn and quartered by this frighteningly insightful and opinionated group.I am grateful for the many compliments my track on the Steely Knives compilation recieved.There is an audacity in covering a Steely Dan tune.Just yesterday on another board, I read a rant over Dolly Parton's rendition of "Stairway To Heaven " on her current CD. The author felt that some music should not be re interpreted .Needless to say I have not let this thinking inhibit my efforts to cover numerous Steely Dan songs. I have taken many liberties having edited out most of the incredible instrumentalism that so defines this material. I have transposed almost every song to sit better with my voice.It is incredibly difficult to play that many changes AND sing.It was a challenge to strike a balance between including the voicings existing on the records and the ones I needed to avoid a thin sound.It was also important that there was the "essence of Dan" in each performance.As an acoustic artist in NY's downtown music scene I was known as "The UN-Folkie" because my originals had the drive of Rock , the sophistication of a Broadway show tune, the hookiness of Pop yet with the earthiness and intimacy of Folk.I think these qualities are what I bring to a Steely Dan song.If I bring anything to this almost perfect material, it is in the light I shine on the most unique progressions in Pop and some of the most inventive and impressionistic lyrics ever written which are highlighted in these short and sparse solo-acoustic arrangements.
What started me off on this was a dare by several co-workers who didn't think I could nail the song Peg.During a lunch break I took out my Martin Backpacker, sat on the edge of the breakroom table and proceeded to work on the song. In 45 min time I did a decent job of hashing it out. The next Tuesday I performed it at one of the better attended open mics and got the best round of applause I had ever recieved as a performer. I began to add other tunes just for the fun of doing them and now have a good hour of Dan material including one from The Nightfly and Book Of Liars from 11 Tracks Of Whack.My involvement with this material has made me a better player and singer.It has been my greatest honor as a performer to have spent the time learning and perfecting solo acoustic versions of Steely Dan.Thanks again everyone for your kind words.You can imagine the anxiety I have felt wondering how Caves would be recieved by the most fanatical of fans.I have learned so much about popular music from the nitpicking geniuses who post regularly to the eccentric boards on the net.I'm busting, waiting for the new one, arent you?
Posted by: Sam, From AP :
Gus Dudgeon, Producer of classic Elton John, David Bowie, Joan Armatrading and XTC recordings, died in an auto accident along with with his wife over the weekend. Dudgeon produced Elton's early and mid 70s classic albums as well as Bowie's Space Oddity. More recently, he was involved in various technologhies for recording remastering including the SADIE system.
Posted by: Jed, I'm sure someone out there can help with this: what was the song line-up for the VH1 show?
I've heard a snippet of FM, followed by Peg, Kid Charlemagne, Bad Sneakers, Josie, a snippet of Do It Again, Cousin Dupree, then What A Shame About Me. I'm assuming the snippets were due to the show's running time (about 45 minutes?) and commercials. Or are there any more songs?
Thanks for any help.
Jed
Posted by: Howard, @lunchPivotal Pete - an interesting question! It's true to say that many (most) SD songs are written at the piano, so playing them on the guitar presents some extra problems. A few thoughts:
Some SD chords are physically impossible to play on the guitar. E.g a chord of Cmaj7/D: (low to high) D B C E G is a fairly common Steely Dan kind of chord used in Aja, Gaucho etc. You just can't play this on the guitar (unless you have VERY weird fingers!) The chord would look something like x59553. Ouch. There are a lot of chords like this, with tone or semitone dissonances buried in the middle, that just cannot be played on guitar - you have to compromise and drop a note somewhere. On the keyboard of course, you're Ok with chords like these.
There are other SD chords that are perhaps unusual, and may be hard to play on the guitar (at first), but with practise you'll get used to the shapes. This is true of many "jazz chords" on the guitar - they look strange and difficult at first glance, but you soon get used to them.
There's one other big problem of playing Steely Dan songs on the guitar. To get the "right sound" you need to take account of what the bass is doing, as well as what the overall chords are. The bass and chords move independently, and this creates big problems on the guitar: you've only got one hand to finger bass and chords. Very often, it's possible to get the essence of the bass and the harmony into playable shapes on the guitar, but sometimes it can't be done. Again, on keyboards you have a much better chance of getting this to work.
Then there's the whole issue of figuring the songs/chords out! With the later and more complex songs, there are many parts to consider: bass, keyboards, guitars, horns, vocal harmonies, percussion... Coming
up with a condensed arrangement (e.g a single piano or guitar part) is not straight forward as you have to weigh up the relative importance of what each instrument is playing to get the right "overall sound".
Even when you've done that, there's the problem of actually figuring out the right notes. With the rich harmonies SD use, this is not easy, and it's something the songbooks don't always get right.
Having said all that, trying to figure out or play these songs on guitar (or piano) is a superb way of learning. I can't put into words how much I have learned from the SD transcriptions I have done over the past few years.
...and it's often surprising how well some songs CAN be tackled on the guitar. Black Cow works amazing well on an acoustic guitar!
For those interested, more info (SD songbook reviews, guitar transcriptions, mu major info) at:
www.jmdl.com/howard/steelydan
Howard
Posted by: Steveedan, Blue Man Group ... (1) yes, and (2) maybe.
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaPeg and Earl-
Thanks for your answers to my question about "what's hard to play?" Just want to clarify that I do NOT hope to accurately replicate SD songs on an accoustic guitar, nor is the question aimed at improving my play, which is purely for personal (!) entertainment.
Hope others have input. I suspect Peg may be right about the keyboard origins of some songs. I know there are some chords in the SD book I have (for good or bad) that I never knew existed and are not in my "500 Chords" reference book!
-Pete
Posted by: Blue Man Group, Blue Book,U.S.A.Stevee----Did Beaz give you any dirt on "the boys"? Is he ever going to sit in with you and the Pretzel Logic band?
Ernie Watts, great player! I think he played on some Dan songs.
Posted by: Gina, Sun Scam MountainHowdy Steveedan, nice portrait of the events and you sound like you had a real good time :-) If you haven't done so yet, Beasley's own stuff is very nice to listen to, various influences and footprints of those he worked with (Cauldron f.e.) and his own voice like a crescendo in a timeless timeline (Surfacing). Can't find another way of describing it now. Email me if you have the time, there's stuff i'd like to know :-)
G.
Posted by: Steveedan, Back from Newport BeachHi Everyone ... how's it going?
The Dan Marathon was great. I got up early to tune in, and had it on all day and night. I was in and out of the house, so I did not hear more than about a third of it, but, that's a lot for sure.
At the tail end of the broadcast, there was a comment made about "Cobalt cigarettes". The hosts misinterpreted this lyric which (as most of you know) is from King Of The World. They thought that it was a reference to the pack of cigarettes shown in the photo on the front cover of The Nightfly, which are Chesterfield Kings (of course). I almost called in to tell them, but, I didn't want to contradict them after such a great marathon. I got to hear Joe Jackson's version of King Of The World, which I must go and buy (it's the Live In New York CD).
Gina - I did hang with Lee Ritenour and John Beasley. John thought that I looked familiar. He and Lee told me that I look a lot like Mike Lang, who is a keyboard player. Lang played on the Big Band Steely Dan CD the Hoops McCaan Band. Coincidentally, I went to school with Lang's younger brother Rocky. I used to get invited to Rocky's exclusive "A List" Beverly Hills parties in high school because I could play Elton John and Steely Dan tunes on the piano. These guys are the sons of the film producer Jennings Lang, for those of you who are old time movie buffs.
I was the sole audience member during the soundcheck. Lee Ritenour fronted a quintet. Ernie Watts was on sax, Will Kennedy (from the Yellowjackets) was on drums, Tim Landers (who has been touring with John Tesh and is a monster) on the bass, and John Beasley on organ, Rhodes, and acoustic piano (using a Roland keyboard for acoustic piano). At the conclusion of the soundcheck, Beasley needed to move his keyboards a couple of feet closer to the center of the stage, so while the technical crew was moving John's keyboards, I noticed that the chords were getting stuck underneath the keyboards, so I jumped up and helped out with keeping the chords free and clear of the bulky instruments. After that, John and I sat in the audience and chatted for a while. I told him about all of the Steely Dan tribute bands and also about the various 1996 Dan Tour CDs that I had recently come across and offered to get him some copies of them. He was happy about that.
After that, we all went back to one of the three swimming pools at the Newporter Inn where Tim Landers' family (wife and 2 daughters) were swimming. Lee and his son, and Tim and his family and I talked by the pool for a little while, then, it was off to dinner and back to the show.
The show was great. All 5 musicians played extremely well. At times Lee sounded like Pat Metheny, as well as his more "accessible" and recognizable sound. There were a few traditional jazz tunes, a few latin jazz tunes and a few funk jazz tunes. Our seats were great and the crowd really enjoyed the show.
After the show, I again sat with John Beasley, and also helped him to gather some of his "smaller" equipment, like pedals and charts and stuff, and we talked a little bit more about his experiences with Steely Dan, Miles Davis, and a few others. John was very gracious and nice. He gave me his card and I plan to contact him when he gets back to town (he had to go out of town Sunday morning). It's been a while since I have had the opportunity to hang out with a great musician and just have normal conversation and not feel rushed or like being in a receiving line with the rest of humanity.
After the Lee Ritenour concert, I drove down to the Balboa Peninsula to the Studio Cafe to catch the last hour of The Steely Fan Band. They had a scaled down band that night. I sat in on two tunes ... Any Major Dude, and Don't Take Me Alive. Their "rock-i-fied" version of Steely Dan was received well by the intimate crowd at the cafe.
Got home around 2 AM, slept for a day and a half.
Steveedan
Posted by: Earl, DelawareIn response to Pivotal, if I were you, I'd do it as follows.
#1) Get a songbook.
#2) Cue up a song.
#3) Listen to the song, and see how poorly the songbook transcribes it.
#4) Shake your head at why you spent $20 on a Steely Dan Songbook.
Ok, all kidding aside, I think that playing and singing Steely Dan's music by yourself with an acoustic is futile. Becker/Fagen compositions and arrangements are so encompassing that you can waste a lot of time trying to discover the best way to play their songs on an acoustic.
Having said that, there are some songs that are probably do-able. If you want to find those, Howard Wright's site (http://www.jmdl.com/howard/steelydan/index.html) has some good tab and chord charts, and also Lucas Pickford (www.lucaspickford.com) posts some of his lead sheets for playing the songs. I would say Howard does a very good job, but I think it takes a Herculean effort (not to mention at least a 6 piece band) to accurately reproduce their songs to any degree of closeness.
I tend to do some transcribing for the Christian band I play in, so I have some experience writing out parts. If you want to learn to do this, the biggest key (in my opinion) is getting the bass line down. After you get a handle on the bass line, the key, chord progressions, and the rest will become easier to decipher. Dan songs are tough because there are so many parts. Take the verse to "Cousin Dupree" as an example. The key is F, and the vamp for a good part of the verse is in F. But the keyboard on the and-of-3 in every other measure throws an Eb in there.
I'd recommend checking out those sites I referenced. You can get a start there. Also there are a couple of relatively good books on the market. Howard's site has some recommendations about books, and one book I can personally vouch for is a green book, "The Best of Steely Dan." The parts are tabbed out very completely and are pretty accurate. I also have "Steely Dan Complete," which is fair. The later material is better scribed than the earlier songs, and you don't get guitar parts, just typical PVG transcriptions. Finally, I had one that was called something like "The Great Songs Of Steely Dan," and I would definitely tell you to stay away from this one. It was pretty awful, the chords were incomplete and often incorrect.
Best of luck to you,
Earl
Posted by: Peg, RuminatingWell Pivotal Pete, I can't resist trying to give my response to your fascinating question. I am guilty of having tried to figure out SD tunes by ear! (I play keyboard.) I have been successful at many: Haitian Divorce, Katy Lied, YGT II (except the intro, which I now can do thanks to Howard's guitar tabs), Rikki, and My Old School come to mind. I have also been very UNsuccesful at quite a few. Figuring out Almost Gothic by ear was a futile, futile thing. Forget the chorus to Janie Runaway, too, after that first key change. Looking up the real chords after spending hours guessing is like sneaking to the end of a mystery novel, with all the accompanying guilt. But I get over it. There are also many tunes I have not tried to figure out yet.
As a songwriter I dissect as many tunes (ones I like) as I can. It's rather like figuring the recipe of a fine dish. What did they use to make this? What makes this sound like it does? Since Fagen writes many of the tunes and is a keyboard player, maybe it's easier for keyboard players to play their songs than it would be for others -- I don't know.
Songwriting can be a very organic process, a la Stevie Wonder or many others...but I can't think of many SD songs that (to my thinking) were written in an organic fashion. By that, I mean, straight emotion is begun, then spun off to its logical conclusion. (Listen to Stevie Wonder's "Overjoyed" or "Ribbon In The Sky" to get what I mean.) Yet SD songs are clever, they're funny, they tell stories, they are sophisticated, they are beautiful in a way that others are not.
So maybe that's a reason people find them difficult to play, I don't know.
Well this is the longest post I've ever done. You got me talking about my 3rd career, so that's why.. You ought to get a copy of that SD interview on Performing Songwriter magazine (I mentioned it a while back -- ti's March/April 2000). It explains some of their thinking behind the way their songs are put together.
And now it's time to hit de 'other' keyboard!
Posted by: Paige, Santa BarbaraI'm still here.
Posted by: hoops, ChicagoBig Fan: Thanks for the Garfunkel link. It was funny to see Ted Baker called "Teddy Baker" Always appreciated.
Kelly: Thanks for the link about Fagen's video. I can't log in. Which one is listed? Intruding minds gotta know!
Peg: Sorry not to get back to you about the Chicago Dan fest possibly happening Labor Day weekend. There are about ten people interested at this point.
Thanks to WBWC for mentioning us quite a bit during the Marathon show. An increase in traffic and Digest sign ups. Thanks also to whomever connected them with us.
Nitey.
h
Posted by: hoops, One other thing about Michael McDonald, it was almost exactly four years ago that I had an incredible experience, thanks to Pete Fogel. I was in NYC for MacWorld Summer 1998 and decided to head over to Le Bar Bat for dinner. I'm having dinner on LBB's upper level area with some students I had brought along on the trip. Then who should walk in for dinner but Mike McDonald and his band! Needless to say it would have been absurd to gawk or be in any way disrespectful of their privacy. So we went on with our great dinner (LBB's chef cooked up an incredible Shrimp Fettucine in a wine sauce, in case Aussie's wondering).
It was a week night (maybe a Wednesday) and Pete had this fine, up and coming band performing. Thanks to Pete's finesse and "hostmanship," Mike ended up joining the band and performing an impromptu three-song mini-set. You could tell he was really enjoying playing such an intimate venue like Le Bar Bat. Afterwards, Pete introduced my students and myself to Mike. MIke was very warm and friendly and appreciative of us fans. He said that he hoped to do a longer show at LBB sometime again since it was such a great place and audience.
"What a night!", as Donald Fagen would say! Thanks again, Pete!
BTW: Aside from the first few months of the Digest in 1993, the Digest from July 7-10, 1998 is the only one I don't have. If by some weird chance you have it, please email it. Thanks!
h
Posted by: hoops, Regarding the Mike McDonald thing, Keith Thomas wrote something for the next Dandom Digest about it:
------------
From: MrKat999@yahoo.com
Subject: Mike McDonald on Public Radio
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:05:04 -1600
Our NPR radio station in Maryland has a show called "Public Interest." If you are an NPR junkie, you've probably heard of it. Well, they had Michael McDonald on and he spoke about Steely Dan! Like all NPR shows, the show has a website and archive. Check out http://www.wamu.org/pi/shows/index.html and you can order a tape copy if you scroll down to Thursday, July 18. Or you can click to listen to it on Real Player, if you got the throughput, http://www.wamu.org/ram/2002/p2020718.ram
Says the page, "He was a member of the Doobie Brothers, performed with Steely Dan, and won five Grammy awards. Now the challenge for Michael McDonald, once proclaimed "the new sex symbol of a generation," is what to do when you turn fifty. Singer-songwriter McDonald looks back at his career and talks about his new life in Nashville. "
There are at least two spots where he talks about Steely Dan. One is at about 30 minutes into the hour show. Host, Frank Stasio brings up this Rolling Stone quote where Mike said, if he could be anybody, he'd be Donald Fagen! Mike explains himself by saying he admires Donald "as a leader and a composer." McDonald comments Fagen seemingly "accomplished everything he set out to achieve."
And then around 46 minutes in, Mike talks about Steely Dan again, calling them the first band in a long time to "change the complete complexion of pop music." He sites "bad Sneakers" and it's sitar as an example of something they did that was way out there and different. "They could have used kazoos and got away with it." He called Donald, a "psychedelic Lawrence Welk."
Later he says Donald and Walter were really "fun..funny guys to work with" and he wasn't always able to meet their standards, like on "Doctor Wu." On that one, "I just wasn't able to sing it with as one really long phrase without a breath...I was not the guy....not up to their standards."
Great to hear what Mike is up to!
Keith Thomas
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, CaliforniaAs a fairly new site watcher/contributor I'm getting the idea (takes a while) that there are quite a few SD-loving musicians out there. (Some apparently on, others apparently NOT on, compilation CDs).
I love to play SD songs on my guitar (strum and sing) and have run across some songs that to me are TORTURE to play. [A few of which I can now get through with only minor cramping. I confess I'm pretty mediocre.]
So a question for others who attempt their own public or private "tributes": What have you found to be the MOST DIFFICULT Becker/Fagen song(s) to play? Have you been able to get it down? Did you give up? Still working at it?
Another slant: How did your viewpoint of songs change when YOU tried to play them?
It's be really interesting (to me) to hear experiences of trying to bring SD songs to life -- especially from folks with the nerve to do it on stage!
Appreciate any input ...
Posted by: W1P, I will not "shut up" in encouraging people to buy Steely Knives rather than boycott it or burn it without paying.
Posted by: Gina, Cauldron MountainListening to Beasley's Cauldron right now and thinking of Steve Chernove who will most certainly yank Beaz from behind the piano LOL
Hoops, thanks for the compliments. I hesitated to call in my friend Emiel van Egdom who's experienced in the field and a real pro, but only natural for me to be intimidated given the fact he's buddy-buddy with men like Bobby Militello, Beas, John Pattitucci and loads of other big names in the jazz/fusion area. Plus i felt it would be like cheating some ... and Clas, Jonas and i mingle right together and i like to do things on my own, even if i had to fly over to Sweden for it, which was half of the fun!! I like their way of arranging so it only felt natural to do and a nice challenge as well. These the kind of things and inter-relating that make life F U N. And like doc Mu concurred, internet and especially Mac (!) makes a lot possible for future music projects ... i am all for it!
I for one liked JK's music from last year and assumed he would be on this one's too although he rarely surfaces in the forums. But not many do albeit they're around anyway. I'm a writing-addict and also a writer by profession, often considering all of this like "font-theater", so my angles, views and tastes may differ from others. These past few days however the unique sequences of the SD Fandom hit me and call me lazy if i do not search the internet to investigate whether other music bands have stuff like we know in the Dandom world.
As a writer with a soft spot for the history of things i think it's pretty amazing!!!
Here in the Netherlands we don't have the mentality nor the perseverance and professionalism when it comes to a lot of things, in my opinion. America has always rang true to me when it comes to the music, the recordings, the sounds and attitude. Attitude's a big part of it, yes. And passion. Genuine passion. And to be "normal". Like i read on the official site, stories by Denny Diaz, Wayne Krantz (is there life after Steely Dan) and John Gordon who said no to Steely Dan, that one was hilarious :-)
That's also what Emiel told me about american musicians he met and worked with. They easily have regular jobs next to their music and performing and make no big deal of it. Mike Stern takes his guitar and walks down the street where he lives to play in a small club, while overhere some musicians NOT as big as Mike Stern expect to be treated like superstars. That kind of stuff. To be a regular human being. With ups and downs, highs and lows.
Nuff said for today. I hope all the hastle concerning this year's compilation CD will result in positive vibes and to first look inside yourself and change a point of view or be wise about something may be harder than to lash out at anyone else. And to turn the other cheek, perhaps. You might get a gentle rub instead of a slap in the face, right :-)?
Since i found the Yellow GB my life has changed big time, personal and professionally as well, i've learned a great deal about many things and realtime people here often call me nuts, but that's the way i feel about it and i have things showing for all of that ...
So, thanks to all the distant across the big pond people for being in my mind and giving me food for thought and stuff to write about as well, for waking up the darker sides to my nature also sometimes, (hehe) i am no saint. Hey, but that's also what the music and lyrics of Steely Dan is about, ain't it?
Toodly, G.
Posted by: YA MO, Mike McDonald fan????? God bless ya! Yas probably still digging
Tony Orlando.
JK PINK shut up ya cry babies!
Be there
YA MO
Posted by: Mike McDonald Fan, Payyyyyyyyyyyyyg ....back to you...... Payyyyyyyyyyyyyg ....shutter falls.....all in 3D..... I heard that there's going to be a interview with Mike McDonald on a syndicated radio show today. Anyone know which one and where and if they have a webcast?
Posted by: DrMµ, TejasWhile, circumstances prevented me from tuning into most of the marathon, what did eminate through the iMac speakers was a very well constructed collage of intelligent and informed thoughts on one SD, the hits, the meat, covers (Ben Folds, Fourplay, etc), tangential Dan, NYR&SR, solo albums, AiA, rarities, interviews (one from the 2nV release time that described their chart making process focusing on the horns was particularly interesting)...kudos to WBWC!
Posted by: norm, Mr. Sam - that Jeopardy question about Reagan's address reminds me of an album by 1980's Canadian joke-punkers My Dog Popper. (They had shaved heads and wore styrofoam Mohawks in festive colors like pink and magenta, and had songs like "I Lost My Job To A Guy Named Gino.") Anyway, their album is called 668: Neighbor Of The Beast, which I thought was pretty inspired.
I guess ol' Ronald Wilson Reagan (six letters in each name, but who hasn't noticed THAT by now?) didn't want to see That Number on his door every time he came home. But let's not get started on all that again......
Posted by: Brett (Schwinn) Barney, AustinAnonymous: Who is JK? The only contributor I didn't include on Steely Knives was WP1--and NOT because of the quality of his material but because he didn't submit original music OR a Dan cover. The previous two Guestbook compilations included only original material and I used those as a guide.
Also, I extended the deadline for submissions twice. It went from 2/14 to 4/1 to 5/3. When it was clear no new music was on the way I put out a call for additional submissions from those who had already submitted. Clas answered by sending me a 2nd song, "Dr. Warren's Heights". The fact that he had participated in 2 other songs didn't bother me. When you're hungry for new submissions to complete a project you tend to throw away the politics and go for the music and indeed, the sonic quality of Clas' recordings rival any you will find at your local music store. I too would have preferred a CD of 79.9 minutes but neither JK nor YOU, anonymous, bothered to submit--and thank GOD I didn't fill it out with more of Clas' music!!!
It was not my intent to exclude anyone from participating in this project. Quite frankly, I didn't even know the blue book existed until Hoops sent me an e-mail asking me to post a little something for the Dandom Digest. Little did I know. Much have I learned.
And yes, you can always upload the songs to Mp3.com, provide download access and large scans of art and directions on how to properly wield an exacto knife so you can make your own copy but....in the end... you'll still only get what you pay for.
Your Blue Book Buddy,
BB
Thursday, July 18th 2002. 7:00 am -1:00 am ET
18 Hours of Sweet Steely Dan Music
Traditional Broadcast: WBWC 88.3 FM—Cleveland
RealAudio Stream: http://www.wbwc.com—Worldwide
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Date: Fri, July 19, 2002, 00:59:52
Posted by: Ron,
Hey All! Was just listening to the Steely Dan Marathon on WBWC here in Cleveland and heard about this web page. I've been a fan for years (saw the Soul Revue at Blossom in 1992) but never thought to look them up on the internet. Great site! I will be back.
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 23:03:24
Posted by: John, Erie
Guess what? They played Bodhisattva by Bryan Ferry on the Steely Dan Radio marathon.
Then they talked about us here on dandom.com and the Blue Book and what a cool site it is! Congrats, Hoops and everybody!
After that it was FM and FM (Reprise).
AWESOME!!!!
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 22:38:13
Posted by: John, Erie, PA
"Anonymous"
You say DON'T READ IT and MOVE ON. I didn't know I should do that until I had read your whole post to the very end!
It was wrong to leave family out? What is this, Lilo and Stitch? Soundtrack to a family? Well, a dysfunctional one, I guess.
Seriously, I can't stand Clas and don't go there because of him. I will not buy the CD as a result of his contributions. But Brett probably didn't know Clas is a jerk. Let's move on. The next one's bound to be cool.
John
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 22:22:50
Posted by: Anonymous,
O.K. Hoops,
I'll go along full-heartedly that there are probably some really great performances on the new 2002 Technicolor Motor Home CD. Bravo to all who performed. I also agree that the CD is not for profit.
But I diverge when it comes to people being left off while Clas gets exposure on a third of the CD. As you point out, this CD is about an hour long. Then, easily, there could have been 15-20 minutes additional music on this CD. If you had a Danfest, would you tell Pink and J.K. that they couldn't perform? Maybe J.K.'s track didn't make it to Brett, but I don't buy that it, nor that Pink's, wouldn't fit in with the flow of the CD. The CD is a very eclectic mix, not unlike a soundtrack, with no predominant sound. In this case, this soundtrack is to our family known as the Guestbook. It was wrong to leave family out, especially when Clas gets multiple turns. "DON'T BUY IT and MOVE ON" isn't the full answer. Some are being ignored and we shouldn't sweep it under the rug. I think some of our best Dan friends have been purposely overlooked. I smell some favoritism with this CD and that's why I don't post to the yellow book anymore. Basically, the place is run by Clas who behaves like a playground bully, friendly to those he feels like and intimidating and senselessly brutal to those he randomly picks on. Instead of the yellow book, it should be called the Clas Book. And this is the Clas Book Compilation CD.
If you don't like what I've said, Hoops, go ahead and take this down. Better yet, DON'T READ IT and MOVE ON.
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 21:20:37
Posted by: hoops,
I got my copy of Techno Mo Ho 2002 today. First of all, the packaging is first rate. Top Notch. Professional typography and printing on slick paper with professional label printing. Litho quality. The cover and back remind me of the "Heavy Metal" soundtrack and is cool, but you know, I think Mindy's illustration for TM 2001 captures the true spirit of it.
While not every track is my personal taste BUT they are all pretty damn professional sounding, ready for radio play.
A couple of general comments.
I'm pretty impressed with the vocals. Just one listen so far. The CD is an hour long. Here are just a few comments...sorry to leave some tracks out.
* Floridave is up to form and I think this is one of his best, especially in terms of vocals and production.
* Malcolm really does has that Ben Sidran thing down. I where he will take it from this track?
* Ducky should head up to East Troy, Wisconsin and join the Terrapin Station Family reunion in a couple of weeks. I kept waiting for Jerry's Guitar to break out at any moment on that one. I guess because it reminded me of that Rob Wasserman "Trios" album; specifically the last track, with Rob, Jerry and Edie Brickell, called "American Popsicle." Rob and Jer's original idea for this album was to make songs up on the spot--preferably with audience input, record them with no retakes and then release them. They ended up redubbing anyhow. That's what Ducky's track reminded me of Edie Brickell on "American Popsicle." Or maybe Van Morrison on "September Night" or "Evening Meditation" from his "Inarticulate Speech of the Heart" period.
* Clas and his son can certainly play. It's really too bad that he's alienated more than a few of us with pointless abuse and has made it hard for people to get past that to catch his talents and that of his son.
* I am just floored by Gina's great vocals. Absolutely amazing, kiddo. Get your vox and midriff ready for an audition!
* Steven Baker has a couple of tracks on RFD2 [ see http://www.dandom.com/radiofreedandom] I really like his spartan style. It shows how great the songwriting of Becker/Fagen hold it's own without much production and I have a preference for Dan covers that are much different the original SD tracks.
* Then there is Pretzel Logic with Steve Chernove. The playing is really great. If your Steely Dan cover band vocal preference is for someone who approximates Fagen's voice and mannerisms--something a subset of fans feel is essential to the Steely Dan sound--then you will like Warren Weinberg--he does a great job. Of course, like I said, my personal preference is for something radically different in terms of vocals.
At the same time, the next CD better have jk and Pink as a priority for the next one. These are pretty talented musicians. As jk, pointed out, their tunes were great but maybe not for the mix on this one.
Regardless, getting this all together and packaged so professionally as Brett has done is no easy task. So thanks to him for doing a great job.
h
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 20:59:07
Posted by: W1P,
Steeve, I'm thinking "Through With Buzz"
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 20:58:22
Posted by: Mike-o-RAMMA!!,
Ewwwwww The Steely Dan Radio Marathon....
GROUP HUG EVERYONE!
Everybody twist! --FZ
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 20:48:46
Posted by: Beerberian, Burton on Trent UK
Hoops; Echo the sentiment It does feel like an "experience"
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 20:41:13
Posted by: hoops,
Listening to the SD marathon as well. A little while ago, they were playing Paul Hardcastle's cover of "Do It Again." They had a vocalist on it who reminded me of Amelia Ray.
The DJ also talked about Jeff Porcaro being gone 10 years now (I think he would have been 48). The DJ claimed that when Jeff first worked with Steely Dan in 1974, he was the highest paid player with them for $400 a week while everyone else got $250.
I can understand how some people might wonder about the appeal of such a marathon when we all have the recordings. Well, for one thing, I'm glad to support a Steely Dan marathon (at last) when it seems like all I hear about are more Garth Brooks and Shania Twain marathons. Glad someone cares enough to give the Dan their due. Lord knows most of the media doesn't. Also, it's cool to hear other fans' perspectives on SD. Also, it's a great to catch all these songs in different order. As was noted, they are mixing in tangentially Dan recordings. So all in all, it's an rather unique set. Cool to think people in Australia as well as the UK and even here in the USA are having a common Steely Dan experience. Email these people and thank them wbwc@bw.edu
As for John's question, yeah, I believe you're not supposed to play the same artist over and over again, but who's gonna get their shorts all in a bunch if it's just for day.
h
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 20:19:21
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Ole: August 2000 started the slippery slope, and is when I should have put my retirement into bonds my TIAA-CREF..guess I'll be working until I'm 80...I have not desire to become a fixture in the E-Z chair anyway - I've got my oooowwwwnnn!...funny, that's the time Cheney had to sell all his stocks to run for VP and sneak away before Haliburton realized he bought a company facing asbestos lawsuits and could collect the debts he marked down as profit...
Hoops and Gina: I'm in full fledged agreement about downloadable Steely Spoons next annum...post the artwork as a jpeg, and we can download and print glossy at 2400 dpi on out own deskjets...I think after the weaseltry last year we are fortunate to have SN at all...
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 19:45:44
Posted by: oleander, home @ last
Mr. Sam--Yes, we can.
Mu--Oh. Well, this is what I was referring to in the first place: "...AND one could argue that that's a matter of opinion anyway as the economy was bouncing back during the last 2 quarters of '92 and ironically going started into the tank the last 2 quarters of '00...whatever the case I certainly did not vote for H in '92." Anyway, you're RIGHT, "Medical Science" RULES.
Shout out to Big Fan!
Rev Horton--Stitches. In stitches.
Hey, don't like "Steely Knives" or at least its cost? DON'T BUY IT and MOVE ON.
Schwinn--Arrived safely. Your delivery (eavesdroppers: I paid already) will go out in a week or 2. Yasher koach.
Ben Sidran, definitive deliverer of "New York State of Mind." He's worked with a ton of Dan alums.
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 19:30:52
Posted by: Beerberian, Burton on Trent UK
WBWC 88.3FM coming across the Atlantic - Loud and Clear(ish) No Static, but plenty rebuffering lol. I somehow feel part of something good 'tho
Must pick up the Jock talking about Ska .....what no mention of the two tone Brits ???? The Specials, The Beat, The Selector I think that bunch pretty much held the Ska baton for a large period of 70 - 80's Did he really suggest No Doubt were a Ska band No Shit !!!
Here's a rare one ........
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 19:29:25
Posted by: Gina, No Static Mountain
Home at Last now ... oops, a Kamakiriad gem in the meantime ...
Well, should i pee in my sleep it matches the color of my night-gown/yellow banyan t-shirt tonight :-) hahahaha, just having fun because this can only be dealt with laughing i guess, right?
Sigh! I wonder how those felt when there was no Bluebook ... straight up Digestians (hey, count me in i read that one too!) or what i wonder? Curious for all reasons, the DanFanworld fascinates me :-)
Maybe one day there will come activities in which the competive natures of some can truly be outlived? Baseball? Soccer? Hockey? Tennis? Monopoly Marathons? And to throw in the continents here, Europe versus the United States of America ... mmm ... we'll think of something LOL
Have a nice No Static Marathon everyone,
G.
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 19:27:57
Posted by: John, Erie, PA
I was wondering how they would do a Steely Dan marathon if the FCC Nazis say you can't play Steely Dan over and over and over again. Is there an exemption for cases like this?
Are there any on-line samples of the songs on the Steely Dan fans' CD?
Cool about Fagen getting on the list of videos.
John
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 19:08:30
Posted by: Mr Dan Fan,
They are playing Haitian Divorice along side some tunes from Steely sidesmen. My only complaint is this stupid slogan they keep repeating, "Katy Lied but we won't" Can't they do better than that!?
SWEET MUSIC though!
Haitian Divorice live would be cool next tour. Trumpet instead of talk box?
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 17:52:21
Posted by: Blue Man Group,
Brett! Be carefull of the piss people when hawking this cd. Make sure it's COD only! Ask JW Malibu.
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 16:02:44
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, Chi
DF gets an unofficial nod in the "Greatest Video Ever" poll:
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37960
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 13:44:55
Posted by: Dave,
Only been listening to radio ting for the past hour. I've heard stuff we all probably have, but then it IS Steely Dan so it IS all extraordinary. The interview was from one of Warner Brother's promo "Words+Music" CDs. BTW: Hoops, belated thank you for making copies of W + M for me and sending them my way. You sure I can't pay you?
To a point, I have to agree with all of you who are unhappy with "Steely Knives, the Clas Book Compilation" in that everyone possible should have been included, especially since it's a shande that Clas, the anti-Semite, is on FOUR tracks. Yet, it would seem like a lot of work to get it all together and sounding good, so I'd lay off of Brett or no one will want to take on doing the next one.
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 13:21:50
Posted by: Deacon BlueBook,
Has anyone been listening to the Steely Dan Marathon? I just tuned in to hear the tail end of an interview and now a live version of Bodhisattva. Have they played anything rare or interesting?
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 12:26:46
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Friend of mine has "The Nightfly" music book, and it lists the opening to "The Goodbye Look" as played by a marimba. It is difficult to tell if it's synth or real.
I also thought that Rikki started w/ marimba.
Earl
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 12:22:53
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California
Peg-
I'm sure you're right about the Ham radio. As far as the "Marimbas" go, with synthesizers I have trouble telling what's real and what's not and what's what. Even thought the Goodbye Look might be a steel drum (steely drum?), but it sounds more wood-like to me. So I'm with Marimba until corrected.
I DO think Everyone's Gone to the Movies has a vibraphone (ala Lionel Hampton). S'pose I could look on the album notes to know for sure!
Mainly was looking for cases where the "soloist" doesn't have a lot of competition and where unusual "instruments" were added.
Won't you pour me a Cuban Breeze, Gretchen?
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 11:53:49
Posted by: jk,
haven't had time to read all the controversy surrounding steely knives. i believe i entered a tune for that as well. left it up to the discretion of whomever i sent it to so i guess it wasn't up to snuff. maybe that crazy kitten lisa told me the wrong address. as red sox fans always say - "wait til next year!"
i have an idea for some dan covers. are we doing that? i could be ready by end of year.
i'm not a floyd fan but it should have been included if you ask me.
jk
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 10:01:12
Posted by: Steveedan,
Count us in for that totally Steely Dan cover tunes CD. What songs would you like to be included ... on an 80 minute (full capacity) CD? ... Inquiring bandleaders want to know ...
Hi again Hoops. I found out that Andy Metzger is here in Los Angeles. I have invited him to attend one of our band rehearsals. I will let you know if it happens and if we end up getting a chance to meet each other in the flesh.
Greetings to the U.K. Dandom now appearing here on the bluebook.
Steveedan
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 07:15:00
Posted by: Beerberian @ Work, Burton on Trent UK
Spookily I was just reading this ......
"Tried to break a CD lately? Why, you couldn't break one if you wedged it horizontally between Zach Horowitz's butt cheeks and told him that all his master copyrights were about to revert to the true owners, the artists."
http://www.elliott-randall.com/henley.htm
I , for one, am V happy with my Ltd ed Knives of Steely var. - bands across the water . Gina suggested a complete GB trib compilation ... put me down for that too ...
Date: Thurs, July 18, 2002, 04:29:50
Posted by: Steveedan,
There's been way too much jeering and leering about the Steely Knives CD. If you don't want to here the two SD covers, or the original material of the others, that's fine. But to extrapolate the effort of this CD to a unlawful profit making venture is just plain bunk. Those of you who are doing this, care too much about way too little.
I get a kick out of the fact that my band is on this CD and that it's in homes all around the country and in some other parts of the world. I am not a full-time musician, but I am not a hack either. I don't have a record contract nor am I looking for one, but I am now on a limited edition CD that is in places that I never would have dreamed of. And I am not talking about someone's arse, OK?
Hoops - It was great talking to you on the phone today. I actually played him a little piano over the phone - very little, but we had a great conversation.
Friday night in Newport Beach, CA is the Lee Ritenour concert at the Hyatt Hotel's Newporter. John Beasley is on keyboards.
See y'all later.
Steveedan
Date: Wed, July 17, 2002, 22:13:00
Posted by: Peg, Dreaming of Chicago
Hoopsie, the Labor Day weekend fest sounds wonderful. Any info you can give us interested folks about which part of town would be best to search for accommodations, etc.? I'm sure you are working on it as I write, but, just wanted to ask...
Pivotal Pete: Hey, was that really a Ham radio or not? I always thought it was some kind of rigged sound effect. As for the police whistle in Aja, it is so significant that if Don & Walt wanted a truly Minimalist approach at the Rock Hall display, placing said police whistle on a soft bed of fine felt, and encasing it in a manner similar to say, the Hope Diamond (spotlight and all), would be plenty. As for the marimba(?) in Goodbye Look --isn't there also one in Everyone's Gone to the Movies? They do sound different, though.
Dear Mister Sam: I admit that none of my girl-type acquaintances still follow SD. So maybe there is a gender gap. If you look at the posts on this and other boards, there do seem to be more males. Hmm.
Date: Wed, July 17, 2002, 21:09:51
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California
Back to great solos. Some other SD "best ofs" by category:
Jingle bells: Charlie Freak
Police whistle: Aja
Sitar: Do it Again
Muted trumpet: Babylon Sisters (sorely missed on AIA)
Cow Bell: My Rival
Marimba (?): Goodbye Look
Ham Radio: King of the World
Strange low pipe organ or vibraphone thing: Rikki DLTN (and why was the intro cut off on "Citizen SD"!?)
Other nominees?
Date: Wed, July 17, 2002, 20:48:07
Posted by: Mr. Sam, SD on Jeopardy
The Final Clue on Tonight's Double Jeopardy Board:
CATEGORY: Album of the Year Grammy Winners
$2000 ANSWER: Their: 2000 "Two Against Nature"
Sadly, neither of the 3 lady contestants got it. Hell, nobody even took a guess. Alex presented the solution as if it were obvious. (What else is new?)
True, this contestant group did rather poorly on the category as a whole. Collectively, they only identified 2 of the 5 clues correctly. Still, it was hard to dismiss the group as intellectually challenged or culturally retarded. To wit, they nailed the first 24 of 25 clues on the board, and, as a group, they swept such meaty categories as English Literature, California Property, and Wilson's 14 Points. The final score: $21,001 to $15,700 to $14,801.
Given that Jeopardy contestants are generally cerebral AND culturally aware, what, if anything, does this say about the marketing effort behind 2vN's release? Not a one of this articulate bunch of 30-50 year olds (save Alex) could RECOGNIZE a two-year old album title from a 70s icon like Steely Dan. [BTW, they successfully identified Still Crazy After All These Years and Jagged Little Pill, so they weren't totally unaware musically.]
If it's not a marketing problem, is it possibly indicative of a "gender gap" in the Dan's fan base?
Here's a bonus clue from tonight's show for your amusement:
CATEGORY: California Property
$400 ANSWER: Ronald and Nancy Reagan had the address of their Bel-Air home changed from this number to 668.
SOLUTION: 666
Date: Wed, July 17, 2002, 19:45:35
Posted by: Beerberian,
"The Beast Stabber" I have mine ....... What's the real beef here ?? value - Think Ltd ed. (damn I shoulda asked for a provenence) @ the mo I'm skippin 'tween the euroClas and short skirt axe work
Yo Hoops ; you got contrite mail :)
Date: Wed, July 17, 2002, 19:21:23
Posted by: Whatever,
...or ask Schwinn to front you one and then never pay for it, much like a number of assholes from last year's GB debacle.
Date: Wed, July 17, 2002, 17:52:20
Posted by: W1P,
Just looked up "few" in the Thesaurus and to my surprise it says "ton" Who knew? Don't boycott or burn Steely Knives, buy a copy.
Date: Wed, July 17, 2002, 17:51:32
Posted by: Wooly Shaver,
boycott shmoycott.
jees.
Date: Wed, July 17, 2002, 15:49:26
Posted by: Lars,
Boycott the Steely Knives CD...
Date: Wed, July 17, 2002, 15:28:37
Posted by: The Truth!,
Yo Brett! Did you hear that? If you wouldn't have kept W1P on the cutting room floor you would have sold a ton more cd's!
W1P! If Brett really believed that to be true, your song would have made the cut. You're living in dream world.
Oh yeah...and Brett, what happened to the other people that sent you songs that you didn't include? Can you say the word NEPOTISM?....Hi Clas
Date: Wed, July 17, 2002, 14:04:28
Posted by: W1P, A Shelter . . . .
To continue the clarification, yes I recorded "Pigs on the Wing" (from Pink Floyd Animals) and submitted it for consideration on Steely Knives. I also left up to Schwinn complete discretion to decide whether to include the track or not. That doesn't mean I agree with or like his decision but it was definitely his decision to make. In fact, had my track been included, there would have been at least a few more sales of the CD -- which proves even more forcefully that there was absolutely no profit motive in the Steely Knives project.
Date: Wed, July 17, 2002, 12:08:08
Posted by: Brett (Schwinn) Barney, Steely Austin
Just to set the record straight, W1P submitted Pink Floyd cover songs for the Steely Knives CD. If he would have submitted anything original OR a Steely Dan cover, I would have accepted it. Also, I jobbed out the printing on this disk so it would look as professional as possible. 100 tray cards and 100 4-page inserts, (4-color), cost $350.00. My final cost was $7.85 per disk. I never expected to break even on this project and it looks like I won't even come close. This project was never about money. I have a good job to take care of that. This was a labor of love produced by a Dan Fan. Period. Anyone who wants to burn a copy, be my guest: http://www.banyantreenet.com/tm2002/
Throw Back the Little Ones,
BB
Date: Wed, July 17, 2002, 07:53:18
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
K: Sorry, but labor is a cost, not a "profit." As a matter of fact, if one considers the time to decide which tracks are included, production time, etc., the revenue probably doesn't cover the overall cost to produce.
Do you complain everytime you pay $1.25 for a soda at Taco Bell? There's a lot of profit made from the $1.25, but a lot of it goes to overhead (corporate management, local management, the guy or gal that actually dispenses your soda, the guy or gal that cleans up after you dump 1/2 of your soda and 3/4 of your chicken soft taco on the floor, the guy or gal who wipes the toilet seat after you whiz on it, just to name a few). It's a cost.
This CD is homegrown, so it makes things a little less cut and dry. The producer's time is worth something to himself.
Finally, copyright infringement is a plausible charge, but I think that D+W would hurt their image more by filing a complaint than to allow it, seeing that this Cd will sell so few copies. If it were to sell 5000, they might mind a bit more. Who knows, maybe they'd be interested in listening to it.
Earl
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 18:19:37
Posted by: Gina, Sleepu Sun Mountain
Hoops, i read an idea in your post that made sense to me although not too clear yet but it's getting late around here in Europe :-). The tree thing? If it enables more submissions and fairly easy access etc. etc. it might be something to really consider the next time. This is the third time for this project now and we all know how these things can evolve. We learn while at it, right?
Okay K, i understand your points of view. But i for one couldn't care less should there be any financial gain for Brett, because he's the one putting in a lot of time and effort getting this thing together ... maybe he even got caught in a traffic jam during lunchbreak, time sometimes is more precious than money?
And i do like the CD cover and booklet to be as neat as possible as well, these things also find its shape along the line, as time goes by ...
And again, i agree with Hoops there's this CD first now and other things in progress, the movie/video of Danfests etc. But it's also good to learn about how to make these things agreable with a majority and in this case, the Dan Fandom. Still, i also remember Brett had to ask a few times for people to send in contributions and the entry date (or how do you call it exactly) was originally April ...
And if anyone does have good or "better" ideas, there's the Yellow and Blue to get these ideas across for all to see and read and think about, right?
Ok, off now. I would like a separate Tribute Compilation Band cd from all known SD Tribute bands across the USA and the UK (!) plus really more of the Steven Baker kinda arrangements of Steely Dan songs. And i can think of numerous movies too ... There's history in Steely Dan Fandom, the Metal Leg years and such ... Not all fans and i mean especially those not in the USA know about what it was like back then ... internet made a lot possible and there are significant differences in what was published here in Europe for example and in the USA on Steely Dan. You all were closer to the fire!!
Night night :-)
G.
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 18:15:30
Posted by: Mister Sam,
Lou: Hugs & kisses back at ya.
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 17:48:52
Posted by: Lou Chang,
Mr. Sam- K was wrong. You're not boring. You're very boring!
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 17:36:33
Posted by: Mister Sam,
K: And you had the nerve to call me boring and full of shit yesterday. Get a grip, and take a deep breath. Lighten up.
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 17:24:27
Posted by: K,
Gina - I have no problem with people making music. I DO have a problem with people selling cd's by a bunch of amateurs for as much or more than one would pay for a legitimate artist... then turn around and say there is no profit being made! Not to mention the fact that this $15 (yet, non profit) cd contains Steely Dan songs... can you say copyright infringement? And I would hardly call this ripoff something that's "shared".
W1P - Which part of "no profit" don't you understand? They did say it twice for godsake! A profit is income, money that was made -- whether it be through minimum wage, a salary, a bonus, thievery, whatever. Again, they said "no profit" Besides, I assumed this was a "labor of love", but I guess that only pertains to the "artists"... they do all the "work", and still have to pay $15. And these idiots support this?! HA! But, yes, I can't see 100 people buying this... well, probably the "artists" will buy multiple copies to give to friends and family, but that's the only way.
Wow, they rejected your submission, yet included two tracks from Clas? That's a low blow. Of course, I see that Schwinn had to get his two tracks on there as well... but oh, he deserves it because he's not making any money!!!
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 16:49:03
Posted by: hoops,
Hey kids...Tang anyone?
Sure, on the outside, why should I pay more for a CD of covers and the like than I would for an actual Steely Dan CD? But this is different, very small-scale thing which makes the costs much more.
I never got them put out, but I investigated the cost of burning CDs (as opposed to DVDs) of all the Danvention iMovies and associated web pages. I know a number of you can't see these clips with a modem. So I wanted to get them out as cheaply as possible. Also, the cost of sending CDs might be cheaper than my host fees. I've got all the materials but haven't gotten to burning them since I still have to finish the Rotterdam, Frankfurt and Dusseldorf Danfests.
I'm not here to judge why or how someone else is charging for their CDs. Any time someone takes such a project on, it's often a labor of love. Putting things in perspective, a while back, someone was all hot and heavy on me when I explained I pay a lot for Dandom.com. Sure a lot cheaper host could be found, but the one dandom.com is hosted on more reliable, handles streaming media effectively, and is more Mac and Unix friendly, which is what I am productive with. Regardless, I pay out of pocket without cost to anyone else, so I wouldn't complain if I were you.
So based on that experience, I think Brett has his own legit reasons for paying what he is and I sure won't question it. I don't think Brett is a novice, but if I were someone doing this for the first time, I am sure I would probably not have the most efficient budgeting.
Anyhow, I shopped around and got this, with the hope of someday burning the CD of Danfest QuickTime movies for anyone who wants one, or maybe seeding a CD tree:
* 100 count cakebox of Verbatim CDs (decent kind with the dark blue side)-- $14.00 with rebate
* 100 CD cases -- 21 cents each X 100 = $21.00
* CD case inserts-- I got precuts which were about $90 for 100. I'd Laser Print them, including toner.
* $1.03 for postage for each CD in the USA = $103.00 plus out-of-USA postage.
* $0.30 for bulk 7" X 5" bubble mailers = $30.00
I hate the paper CD labels since they stick to the slot-load CD drives in my car and PowerBook so I wouldn't use them. But that would be an added expense if someone were to have printed paper labels. Perhaps more if they were actually printed with a Prima Vera Dye Sub directly on the CD.
So the way I would do it, would cost me maybe $300 (?)
I remember last time, that the TM CD had both a "printed direct on the CD" label as well as an ink-jet printed booklet. I'm sure everyone by now knows that the ink jet printers are so cheap because they getcha on the cost of ink. So that would definitely add $200-$300. Have no idea about this one that's coming out. I have no idea where that puts my Danfest movie CD in comparison to what the new TM CD is costing. Besides the fact I'd like more people to have and see these movies, I also think the cost of the CDs would pay for itself, if I gave the CDs away (or close to it) and took them off the web and saved myself server space fees.
But this leads to another point that someone has asked. I think Brett and past generous organizers of the TM CD probably aren't breaking even--but is this the best way to get this stuff out there?
I mean in 1997, I was all gleeful about burning custom SD CDs as prizes. It was cool then. But what about today in 2002? I think burning CDs, printing and mailing them is passe for at least some of us. No one asked me before doing the latest TM CD, but had they, I would have suggested putting the CD and associated booklet on dandom.com for download to CD or iPod and the like. That's very 2002, if not 1999 or 2000. And those who couldn't download could offer to burn for others.
Or at least this could be done a la us Dead Heads--a CD tree. That would be cool because it distributes the burden and allows fans to connect with other fans when the CD comes down the tree.
A couple of people who weren't included in the current TM CD have since approached me about this idea. If the current purveyors of the TM CD contact me, we can also discuss this and get their input. But right now, someone else is planning another Dan Fan compilation. I hope they wait until we get through this one.
I know at least one of the previous TM organizers lost a lot of money from people sending bad checks, etc. PayPal reduces that problem.
But you know, behind the scenes, it's a lot of work to get this CD out. I'm not complaining at all and am appreciative. It's fun to see what these others sound like.
hoops
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 16:47:49
Posted by: luckless pedestrian, @work
gina - you tell em!
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 16:27:53
Posted by: W1P, LA
OK, K, let's look a little closer:
You quoted Schwinn as follows: "The cost for the CD is $13, plus $2 for shipping inside the US. No profit is being derived from the sale of this CD. It cost over $750 to produce 100 CD's. Factor in a dozen or so "giveaways" and and you can quickly see there is no profit in this venture."
Then you said: "Let's look at this a little closer, shall we?
Cost: 100 cd's = $750 Selling price: $13 (not including the $2 shipping charge) x 100 = $1,300 Profit: 1,300 750 = $550
Sure, he's factored in the "dozen or so 'giveaways'"... but then, those 12 "giveaways" only cost $90 to make (12 x $7.50). Besides the fact that why should those people who paid $13 be forced to account for (thus, pay for) giveaways for someone else? Not to mention that it looks like even the artists have to pay the $15... just who gets these so-called "giveaways"? And, wheres the other $460 in profits going? Ooh, thats a tough one! Then again, I imagine that this will be a losing venture... I mean, 100 people are going to buy this?! HAHAHAHAAHAAHAA!!!!! "Limited" indeed!
K -- your analysis of what constitutes "profit" treats the time/labor contribution of the producer as $0 per hour. What's minimum wage? $5.15 an hour? So if you treat the labor contribution as a "cost" then the $550 "profit" you ascribe to the project would be reached in 106.8 hours even @ $5.15 per hour. If you changed the compensation to $20 an hour, the $550 is reached in only 27.5 hours. And, of course, they need to sell 58 copies just to reach breakeven on the hard costs -- a sales goal that you believe is unobtainable which means that, under your analysis, they are going to lose money.
Hey, I got my own issues with Steely Knives (e.g., they rejected my submission) but concern about "profits" to the producers is not one of them.
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 15:57:21
Posted by: Gina, Sun Mountain
Wow K. Some negative attitude :-)
And since when is being an amateur something wrong? It's fun, you know. Or maybe you don't know. Hm. But at least you spent some time to copy/paste the shipment and cost paragraph. You shouldn't even have bothered if you really couldn't care less, K!
I am fully aware of the strange maybe even darker vibes in the Steely Dan Fan World and the discrepancy in accepting the internet as fruitful means of communication and trashing it at the same time while at a keyboard hitting those very same keys to send your fonts into the cyberworld. And this Bluebook shows the same kinda tides any other forum including the Yellow has from time to time. Part of cyber-territory i guess?
One won't get anywhere unless one simply does the wade in the water thing, even the muddy cyberwater thing because there's always something worth reading, information and nice stories and humor!
Too bad, K, because the Caves of Altamira song really shows there are more colors to the Steely Dan songs than we're aware of. And that's not all to the Compilation project. It's very very nice to have things like these shared by people who love the music of Steely Dan. Likewise the Danfests and any other assembly of fans from all across the USA. Stuff like this would not happen as frequent as it does without the internet, or am i mistaken?
But i tend to see things in a positive way, that's the beauty of Sun Mountain!
Off again, thanks for this lesson in Human Nature again,
G.
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 15:55:37
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Excuse me K, I didn't catch the original post saying where to order the CD. I must have missed it. I wasn't looking to scam a copy for free, even though I'm not sure I will buy it for the listed price.
BTW, I hear Stevee is putting out a CD of random bodily functions for $20 a pop. You get to hear all of the greats; belching, blowing his nose, flatulating, and everyone's favorite, the 5-alarm chili w/ beans diarrhea splash.
Earl
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 15:40:39
Posted by: K,
Earl - Bootlegging the SIS CD! Gotta love it! But, watch out... Schwinn may come after you... with a stick!
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 15:37:34
Posted by: K,
Gina No thanks. If you think I'm going to pay $15 for a CD made by a bunch of amateurs whose only social life can be found on the piss pages, you are sadly mistaken. I can see charging a few bucks for costs, but to charge more than I paid for 2vN, what a bunch of greedy self-important fucks! Gotta love this business plan, though:
"The cost for the CD is $13, plus $2 for shipping inside the US. No profit is being derived from the sale of this CD. It cost over $750 to produce 100 CD's. Factor in a dozen or so "giveaways" and and you can quickly see there is no profit in this venture."
I guess stating twice in three sentences that there is no profit being made might be quickly seen by the majority of the pissers... But, let's see, it cost $750 to make 100 cd's... that's $7.50 per cd, folks (that is, of course, if we actually believe this figure). I'd like to hear how this mathematician came up with these numbers... how does selling a $7.50 item for $13 equate to making "no profit"? Let's look at this a little closer, shall we?
Cost: 100 cd's = $750
Selling price: $13 (not including the $2 shipping charge) x 100 = $1,300
Profit: 1,300 750 = $550
Sure, he's factored in the "dozen or so 'giveaways'"... but then, those 12 "giveaways" only cost $90 to make (12 x $7.50). Besides the fact that why should those people who paid $13 be forced to account for (thus, pay for) giveaways for someone else? Not to mention that it looks like even the artists have to pay the $15... just who gets these so-called "giveaways"? And, wheres the other $460 in profits going? Ooh, thats a tough one! Then again, I imagine that this will be a losing venture... I mean, 100 people are going to buy this?! HAHAHAHAAHAAHAA!!!!! "Limited" indeed!
Oh, and I cant wait to see what happens when Steely Dan finds out that a couple wannabes are rerecording their songs and hawking them on a $15 cd! Sounds like "Déją Vu" to me!!!!
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 15:27:21
Posted by: To Earl,
This was posted here in the Bluebook on Jun 29. Want me to make you a copy when mine comes? Just post here and I will email you back.
------------------
Date: Sat, June 29, 2002, 12:00:40
Posted by: Brett,
Once again, musician/fans of Steely Dan have joined together to produce a CD of great music. This year's compilation, "Steely Knives", contains over 70 minutes of music. 13 original tunes and 2 Steely Dan covers. Hear what twisted minds just like yours do with their free time. Quantities are extremely limited so order today. Just go to
http://www.banyantreenet.com/tm2002/
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 15:24:30
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Where can I get a copy of the SIS CD? I'd love to hear some other performances of some Becker/Fagen compositions. Thanks in advance for your response.
Earl
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 15:10:36
Posted by: The Reverend Horton Hears a Who, Here cum da judge! Here cum da judge!
Good evening America. My name is Frank Fair-and-mein-kampf. I'm the CEO and founder of CBN/PTL/TBN/Swaggart/Roberts/Falwell/Jesus is a Republican Cross-Promotion Industries.
It has come to my attention lately that, sadly, the majority of Americans still don't understand that Jesus is a card-carrying Republican. Scripture is very clear on this. In the Book of Falwell, for instance, it says, "When I return, you will come to know it is me by my vengeful attitude toward those unlike us and my gross indifference towards the suffering of others. I will smote the hated gays and Africans with the eleventh plague."
In chapter 6, verse 6, the Book of Falwell (the 6th gospel) goes on to say, "Then I will signal the coming of the Hypocri-lips with eight years of unprecedented peace and prosperity. In the eleventh hour, my four horsemen of the Hypocri-lips will ride forward to smash and destroy the warm and fuzzy infidel who blinds the peasantry with his empty gestures of good will toward them.
Finally, I will perform the miracle of miracles. I will run for Lord of Lords (like my daddy), AND WIN! Yes, I will return as the ne'er do well son of a Babylonian magistrate. And like Koresh, I will be the ultimate sinner. I'll be the drunken and drug-addicted sod who idly plays in the devil's workshop. I will wallow in the mud* with prostitutes of the worst kind and scheme with the money changers to make my earthly fortune. Then I will publicly repent, and ingratiate my way to the throne through sleight of hand and hubris. Once installed, I will usher in the new millenium of peace by waging war against all who oppose my righteous kingdom."
---------------
*Ed. note- There is clerical dispute over interpretation of the Aramaic word "earl." The King George version of the NT claims earl is the Aramaic word for oil. Our own King Jerry version, however, believes that earl's proper name is, in fact, mud.)
Know that the Judgment Day is coming America. And when that day comes, King George Jesus will wreck his holier-than-thou vengence on ALL WHO OPPOSE HIM.
Until that day comes, though, we here at the Jesus Is A Republican Seminary Institute would like to offer you the chance to be spared all this unpleasantness. Yes, that's right, your ass CAN BE SAVED. All you need do is utter a simple prayer (well, actually, it's more of a loyalty oath) and send us the $75 dollar processing fee (made payable to the "RNC".) As soon as we receive your signed oath and the check clears, we'll immediately cross you off of our list of infidels to be arrested (without formal charge) and herded off to our fiery re-education camp in the sky.
And, if you're one of the first 25 million callers, we'll even send you a commemorative bump sticker to proudly display on the trunk of your party-approved pickup, minivan or SUV. That way you can proclaim to the world that you have indeed GOT THE MESSAGE. You can choose from:
Jesus is a Republican
Jesus loves me
Jesus loves my gun
Jesus loves my 14-year old daughter (Oops. Sorry, that was David Koresh)
Jesus forgives you
Jesus forgave W (so lay off already, will ya?)
Jesus hates women
Jesus hates gays
Jesus hates the mongrel races
Jesus hates Jews
Jesus hates Muslims
Vote Republican. Jesus does!
It's just our way of saying thanks for seeing the light.
Good night America. And remember, Jesus loves you.
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 15:09:56
Posted by: Mario van POObles,
Is the toilet bowel half empty or half full? Well, it occurred to me that the last Steely Dan tour was two years ago. Or the next Steely Dan tour is two away. That's what I think, plus my septic.
Now for more Steely Dan talk: How about that East St Louis POOble-LOO!
Somebody, quick! Throw me a GB CD! Before I drown!
Pooh's Cuz, Mario van POObles, and maybe Mike
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 14:57:26
Posted by: Meebles Again,
Damm! Hit post too soon! Yeah, some of the stuff on the GB CD must be pretty good. Been waiting for my bootleg copy to arrive. Amazing stuff! I heard one of the ladies on it sings from her DIAPRAGHM! That must have taken years to learn!!!! Speaking of Steve Martin, A hemp collostomy bag? Yeah I guess that's an essential if you want to smoke your own shit.
Is the glass half empty or half full? Well, it occurred to me that the last Steely Dan tour was two years ago. Or the next Steely Dan tour is two away. That's what I think, plus my psychic.
Mee
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 14:48:22
Posted by: Me-bles Wobble But Dey Doan Fall down,
Gina comes over from the piss pages and exclaims, "I can't control myself......" INDEED!
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 14:36:11
Posted by: Gina, Steely Knives Mountain
Alrighty, i can't control myself in Blue :-)
The SIS Book compilation CD has got some pretty neat songs and i was swept off my feet by Steven Baker's cover of Caves of Altamira. THOSE the Steely Dan song arrangements i would really love to hear more of!
It's not just Steely Dan and the music as we know it, it is indeed their songs and compositions and lyrics and how it can lean towards rock and jazz and anything in between i guess :-)
Sigh. So now it's the Catalyst version, the Royal Scam version and Steven Baker's version ... subtile changes in the melody ... you gotta hear it!
G.
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 14:03:27
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Mike: I hope that when you get off your stool, you make sure to wipe your feet.
Earl
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 13:26:22
Posted by: Mike, Despicable? this poop is diggable
Poops, poops, or should I say, your poopness??
We all--but maybe Earl/URL/Oil--know well enough what you and your sidekicks say is just an attempt at funny shit. And we need it, given most Dan fans mysterious lack of humour, inability to dance and overall tight-cheekedness. And Steely Dan fans cant be totally to blame, given the long wait between albums as a result of the Steely Dans own anal studio habits. Butt without being too cheeky, let me spew that its often a relief that you let your humour run the way you do. However, this morning, I detected just a hint of staleness in the otherwise fresh and fetid dumplings of the laughter you bring us all on those special mornings when you "leave us little presents," as I say when the dog deficates in the kitchen overnight. I thought, "I, Mike, (definitely not HeyMike), should get off my stool and help loosen things. Perhaps we are not providing Poops with proper fibre for his schtickt. I would certainly hate to see your humor constipated and pissed away.
Just as I was thinking this, a stack of Dave Matthews Band CDs arrived via FedEx. Wrapped in pale yellow piss papers, I wondered what it meant when everyone but me was given a copy of the new DMB CD/DVD. Nevertheless, I noticed that every CD came with two Discs and TWO booklets. One, the shorter of the two booklets, tossed off a couple notes about the contents of the new CD. The other, with much more text and many more photos than the first, was all about DMB merchandise! I said, Ye-Oow! That Dave Matthews must be mighty happy cos he sells a loada shit!!!! Without even asking Hoops to take a BooBook on-line survey, it hit me! Poops could be happy if he sold his own shit to his relieved fans and crappy detractors! I said to myself, Let Poops Shit hit his fans!
Drawing on that DMB Merchandise Catalogue, heres some of the shit that will be parlayed at http://www.poopnet.commm.
DMB: "Hemp Field Bag"
Poops Shit: "Hemp Colostomy Bag"
DMB: "'I <heart>DMB' Bumper Sticker"
Poops Shit: " 'I<heart>POOP'and 'I<heart>SHIT' Bumper Sticker"
DMB: Moon, Star, Earth Infant Creeper
Poops Shit: Poops Edition Huggies Diapers
DMB: Spotlight Keychain
Poops Shit: Poops Proctologists Light on key chain for colal rectal exams on the go.
DMB: DMB Tin CD Case
Poops Shit: Poops Tin Preparation H Wipes Case
DMB: Best of The Videos: 1994-2000
Poops Shit: Best of Poops Toilet Training Videos, 2002-2002
DMB: Bama Raga Glow In the Dark Fire Dancer Frisbee
Poops Shit: Poops Glow In the Dark Flaming Frisbee/Portable Toilet Seat
DMB: DMB T-shirt
Poops Shit: PoopShurt!
DMB: Busted Stuff poster
Poops Shit: Busted Shit poster
DMB: Star Sticker
Poops Shit: (Well, the DMB Star Sticker already looks like poop! Why reinvent the poop!?!?!
DMB: "Giants Stadium Video"
Poops Shit: "'Giants Stadium Restroom' Video
DMB: DMB Toaster Pastries
Poops Shit: Poop Tarts!
DMB: "DMB Soap on a Rope"
Poops' Shit" "Poop on a rope!"
This doesnt fit but I thought it was somewhat funny shit with merchandise potential:
Q: George H.: Boxers or briefs?
A: Depends.
Now Poops, I know you could do better, but I hoped this would get things flowing and hopefully inspire the high quality crap were used to. Oh Shit, gotta go!
Mike
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 13:05:41
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California
After tossing in a few suggestions to tune down the political stuff (or switch to religion) I've given up and have taken to just scanning for the interesting (music, lyrics, personnel) gems.
I can't resist noting, however, that one of the MOST powerful and remarkable abilities of B & F as songwriters is their ability to say things SO economically. [One of many examples: The first few lines of "Don't Take Me Alive" that paint the entire evening news scenario (with emotions of maniac, law enforcement and innocent bystander) in 25 words (counted 'em).]
So to those who do wish to exercise their political voices I offer an inspirational saying that is true to the Dan spirit:
"Brevity is the soul of Wit."
Re: Fagen's vocals and their role in the songs. Seems to me part of the difference will be found in the arrangement. If the instruments more closely follow the melody line, the vocal will seem to be "window dressing." More than that, though, it's likely due to comments I've read by B&F that while many songwriters write melodies, their approach starts with chords, after which the melody is fashioned (and in a way so DF can sing it). So they noted their songs don't have real catchy melodies ala Paul McCartney.
Viva la difference ...
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 10:58:44
Posted by: Gina, Sun & Faint Raindrops Mountain
Ben Sidran also knows how to juggle his vocal chords, On the Cool Side came to my attention at the time (Steve Miller there as well) but there are many other albums, checked his website BenSidram.com just a few minutes ago when i read the Bluebook ... YGK from the SIS Book has got a similar touch, real cool.
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 10:37:14
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Big Fan: Also of interest is if you go to the Garfunkel website you'll see that Warren Bernhardt is also playing with him on his tour. Of course we all remember him from the early 90's tours/AIA and the Fagen instructional video.
Earl
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 09:57:46
Posted by: Big Fan,
Article on Ted Baker backing up Art Garfunkel
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/07/10/1026185064031.html
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 09:53:00
Posted by: Poopy,
Frankly Earl, I agree with all of the excrementitious fornication what comes from your keyboard to our lovely home.
Has Mr, Bush's free speech zone been extended to this board , yet? I didn't get the memo.
You have heard about the zones haven't you earl? Fascism earl fascism.
Poop
** How about them $2.33 words. The kids'll love em.
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 09:45:36
Posted by: Poops,
Mr. Earl you are right. see**
Stevvvee, i imagine you get dragged into it, though i try to stay off you always, because you have no pooping sense of humor! I bet you have a standard poodle - white of course!
Poops
** Show biz kids making movie of themselves they don't give a poop about anybody else! ** - SD
** Somebody go back and get a poopload of dimes!** - Slim Pickens
** Poop - now there's a 15¢ word ifin I ever heard one! ** - Poops
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 08:23:09
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Jeb: There may be kids that visit this board. Why don't you acquire some taste and lay off the $0.10 vulgarities...can't you come up with something a little more classy than F this and F that?
Earl
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 08:12:24
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
I love how a coward, who doesn't even have the guts to post his or her own name, needs to add a post by another fictitious person to validate his or her point. I don't need to have anyone back me up to make me feel good about my viewpoint. I've said all I need to say about the subject of George Bush 43. It's a waste of my breath to continue this argument. There are people on CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC who get paid to make arguments about this kind of thing.
As I have said before, this is a very marginal thing to be posting about and I have been trying to lay off this type of political mantra. I respect the fact that SD's music has hints of political talk and a sophisticated way of dealing with political issues. Do I think this board is a place for 50-paragraph doctrines about politics. It would be absolutely aweful to ban political discussion. I just think that the posts have been over the top. Why waste the space on the board? The best response I've heard is that SD is inherently about politics. The typical response is a pigheaded agenda-promoting response of "You damn Republicans aren't going to censor me!!!"
So in closing, I don't need to have "Schoops" come on here and back me up. I don't have to lay out a 20 page thesis on Bush and why he's a great POTUS. And finally, I'm not going to add to this discussion only to condemn it for being way too intense. Let's get over this, and let this thing die out.
And Jeb, the Dan would never tour Delaware because there are no suitable outdoor amphitheatres in Delaware to hold a concert. They play up at the Tweeter Center (used to be the Ecentre) in New Jersey.
Earl
Earl
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 07:32:41
Posted by: n,
Don't the CD reissues (the ones with D+W's liner notes) gave individual musician credits for the songs? I remember seeing a friend's copy of Aja, but those were listed originally anyway. So: are the credits given on the first five?
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 07:21:40
Posted by: n,
Boy, that Rutherford B. Hayes...he's really been pissing me off lately!
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 03:21:43
Posted by: Stevee(Sheesh)(not Hashish)Dan, Downtown General Confusion
How the fuck did I get pulled into this crap again ?!? Poops (helluva name, dude) and JEB ...
After the additional orifices that I lovingly received from some of you over the friggin' pledge of allegiance comments, I still find it extremely unrewarding to enter into these political hazing bitch fights.
Thanks to those who set me straight on Potter (not potty, Poops, OK?) and Carlton's Nashville relocation.
Here's a little Steely Dan related item ... this Friday night in Newport Beach, CA, Lee Ritenour is playing at the Newport Beach Hyatt Hotel, and John Beasley ('96 Dan tour) is on keyboards. I'm going.
No really, I'm going.
Stevee (going, going, gone ...) Dan
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 01:47:11
Posted by: Frank the Pug, Come on daddy! Get in- let's go...
Ok! Now this place is starting to become fun!
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 01:39:00
Posted by: Poops,
No
Static 2002 - The Steely Dan Marathon
Thursday, July 18th 2002. 7:00 am -1:00 am ET
18 Hours of Sweet Steely Dan Music
Traditional Broadcast: WBWC 88.3 FMCleveland
RealAudio Stream: http://www.wbwc.comWorldwide
[ more
details ]
HEY, WHO GIVES A SHIT WE ALL HAVE ALL THE RECORDS, cd's, 8-tracks DVDAs! Everyone do their own radio show. Earl you can be Rush if you like.
St al blos. Anyone posts on the pisser sucks.
**** Don't forget to wipe. (not you steeevee - i'm sure you have someone to take care of that for you).
POOOO
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 01:32:15
Posted by: Don't forget to poop!Poops,
I mean the 2nd #9 you dyslexic bastard.
All you up tight politico (that menas you tooooo Hopps)
Don't forget to poop!
lousy guestbook!!!!!
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 01:31:25
Posted by: Don't forget to poop!,
I mean the 2nd #9 you dyslexic bastard.
All you up tight politico (that menas you tooooo Hopps)
D
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 01:15:29
Posted by: Poops,
Jeb man, your post is brilliant, man. You are the canary in Earl's coalmine. As our country goes down in shame/flames you can still serve us a gentle #9.
Impeach donald for using synths and Rhodes NOW! Impeach donald for using synths and Rhodes NOW!Impeach donald for using synths and Rhodes NOW!Impeach donald for using synths and Rhodes NOW!Impeach donald for using synths and Rhodes NOW!Impeach donald for using synths and Rhodes NOW!
Mr. Poops
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 00:55:49
Posted by: JebBush,
numbah 9, numbah 9, numbah 9, numbah 9, el dorado, numbah 9.
Date: Tues, July 16, 2002, 00:55:01
Posted by: Jebbush,
*** GREAT TOUR NEWS ON THE STEELY DAN SITE: 7/15/02 Steely Dan announces it will not be touring Delaware this year. Stay tuned for more dates.
Shame on you for cockwalking your Demhood, HOOPS (are ther any republican harps?). Those fucks are gutless wonders who cower at the conservative media-fueled -ultra-wacko juggernaut. waxman has balls maybe - who else. I mean, Ted you've been our man for years. Where are you now? Hey, you'll be dead soon anyway - whadddaya got to lose? Oh yeah, thank the sweet lord for Jeffords.
Some dork writes: <<Arguing politics is pointless. I don't care how good your argument is, you will never change anyone's mind.>>
At this point it ain't politics. It is the survival of our country - our world. Geez. Bush and friends are extremist radicals of the worst order bent on isolating the US so far away from the rest of the world that we will have no choice but to go to war with everyone. Soon or later.
Please I beg of you oh Delaware Dullard of Dogma. Take a step back and take a look at your president. If it helps, see him as he is, the potentate of an oilgarchy and not at all a republican - in the rich tradition of thaT esteemed party ;-(
1. Florida is investigating his buds for voter fraud. - if this were another country or clinton - you'd be outraged.
2. The potentate was AWOL from his duty as an american for 17 months! A COURT MASHALL OFFENSE. NOT TOO MUCH DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BUSH AND JOHNNY WALKER LINDH IF YOU ASK ME! HOW CAN THAT SILVER-SPOON FED CUNT BE COMMANDER IN CHieF? (A reward of $10,000 has been offered to anyone who can say they saw bush with his unit in GA - NO ONE HAS COME FORWARD!!!) GEORGE WALKER LINDH BUSH! - if this were anyone else or clinton - you'd be outraged.
3. He fucking made trillions on insider trading and is now poo pooing it. As he sarcastically offers jack to deal with corporate robbery. - - if this were a democrat or clinton - you'd be outraged. Wait til your company goes under, earl, you'll be washing steeeeeveees car for a living!
16. Bush doing the best he can to make us a 3rd world nation. then TWM can be our national anthem!
4. He chearfully jokes as he kills retarded prisoners. - if this were another country or clinton - you'd be outraged.
14. He has taken twenty times more illegal drugs than even Jerry Brown (when you buy drugs you are aiding terrorists says Bushy now) and nada - if this were your kid's school bus driver or the guy with his finger on the button (oh it is the guy with his finger on the button!) or clinton - you'd be outraged.
5. The Afgans were willing to handover Bin Laden. But Bushy refused hoping that it wouldn't fuck up his oil pipeline through that country. - if this were another country or clinton - you'd be outraged.
5b. Historians will come to call the gulf war Oil War I and this latest disaster Oil War II - The Bush Oil Wars.
5b. Since journalists are not allowed on ther front lines you have to wonder if the military is being used to digg the pipeline accross afganistan? I mean - Why the hell not?
9. Rumsfeld stopped taking commercial jet flights last august after not investigating terrorism at all during his tenure. (HE DID SPEND 16 MONTHS IN NEW ORLEANS AT A COST OF MILLIONS AND CAME UP WITH 12 HOOKERS. WOW MAYBE I'M WRONG ABOUT THE GUY) Bush was convieniently not in Washington on 9/11 and calmly read a book to school children in the rogue terrortory of FLA. for a half hour after he learned about the disaster before he did anything about it. - forget being commander in chief. Planes were never scrambled from the airport 10 miles away from the pentagon even though they knew new york had been hit and they let a plan fly al the way from DC to Cleveland to the pentagon. And still did nothing.
12. Bush appointed avowed polluters in charge of our most sensitive environmental departments. Your grandchildren are going to be forced to wear oxygen masks 24/7, earl, and you'll shirk at taking family photos what with the open sores on their innocent faces. give up partisanship - topple the fascist!
6. There is so much more but i am disgusted. Where are our true leaders. Who actually said as they headed to the polling booth, "Yeah, this bush is an intelligent leader fit to take this country into the 21st century?" Thinking people around the world are shaking their heads in disbelief. Ok so now you are going to say, "well he's better than the guy most people voted for as president (our president in exile)" Well he sucks too. But the two headed snake has you all bamboozelled. You dobn't have to vote for either of the fuckers! But they love it when we don't vote (people must think we's doin a good job! they would say.) - so get off your sorry ass and go and take the ballot - write your own name in for something and leave the rest blank. DEMAND REAL LEADERS - WITH INTELLIGENCE, GRACE AND WISDOM.
7. IF THERE IS 8 YEARS OF PEACE PROSPERITY AND A SHRINKING DEBT, DON'T GET BENT OUT OF SHAPE AND SPEND $100 MILLION DOLLARS INVESTIGATING A MAN WHO TOOK SOME PRESSURE OFF OF HIM WITH ANOTHER CONSENTING ADULT. (I DON'T APPROVE OF THAT BEHAVIOR EITHER BUT MORE REPS. ARE GUILTY OF THAT SHIT IN ANY GIVEN YEAR THAN DEMS. so fuck you.)
43. KYOTO :-(
8. IMPEACH THE WHOLE FUCKING GOVERNMENT!!!!! NOW. IMPEACH THE WHOLE FUCKING GOVERNMENT!!!!! NOW.IMPEACH THE WHOLE FUCKING GOVERNMENT!!!!! NOW.IMPEACH THE WHOLE FUCKING GOVERNMENT!!!!! NOW.IMPEACH THE WHOLE FUCKING GOVERNMENT!!!!! NOW.IMPEACH THE WHOLE FUCKING GOVERNMENT!!!!! NOW.IMPEACH THE WHOLE FUCKING GOVERNMENT!!!!! NOW.IMPEACH THE WHOLE FUCKING GOVERNMENT!!!!! NOW.
9. I vote for Donald to use real pianos as well.
JEb
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 20:32:39
Posted by: hoops,
I just remembered that John Granatino took to putting a number of "Metal Leg" issues on the web. While the one Sean mentions isn't there, there are quite a few others, including the "Letters" sections from some issues.
http://www.granatino.com/sdresource/mlintro.htm
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 20:25:50
Posted by: hoops,
Sean: AMEN BROTHER on the Metal Leg recounts. Sad part for me is that I didn't know about Metal Leg until it was almost over. and THANK YOU for posting the letters. When I got that ML in 1994, I wasn't knowledgable about Sidran. Since then, Ben Sidran went on to work with Van Morrison and Mose Alisson for a project. So reading that was a discovery for me.
K: You're right that Pete had some majorly good responses and some letters than were even better than the ones Sean featured (I haven't seen them all even). But sometimes just by virtue of Pete printing a letter, it was funny or interesting on its own. Since you have them all, maybe you could post some of your favorite letters too.
h
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 19:11:28
Posted by: DrMµ,
related topic: Who can match the musicians and cuts on Royal Scam?? - some are easy, but not sure of them all...
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 19:07:54
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
StevE: I believe your right about SIS - heard that somewhere else, though there's no cut by cut credits on that one as you know...
Mr. Sam: We can all agree on the obvious. Carter's numbers don't reflect the nose dive things were taking at the end of his administration - same with LBJ...the closer one looks at JFKs number, the more amazing the New Frontier could have been...Reagan's numbers were good after '92 and that helped Bush 41 during his first 2 years, making him look better than he appeared in the Fall of '92...
Don't fool yourself re: Clinton. The dude's just an Edwin Edwards type...he left Bush43 a mess just like Edwards did to Treen and then Roemer...I've seen this movie before. Just because someone can see the truth about that Eddie Haskell bastard doesn't mean they're into the "big fat idiot." That's a low blow - wait that's Monica's department... Most of us knew a BS artist just like Clinton in high school. As evil genius Dick Morris said: "You're first impression of Clinton will be the best, and maybe you're best ever, but he can't sustain it." Clinton is a well-known poll sniffer and reactor, he's a pro-active only in his rhetoric, but constantly shuffles and reassess. Paralysis by analysis. As such Newt Gingrish and his ego turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to him...before the Contract on America, he was a disorganized mess...
Actually re: Greenspan, it cuts both ways. Gambling and going for short-term interests pays off the debt fast which in turn allows Grenspan to lower interest rates. Greenspan was concerned about speculation in the stock market, which he saw as a kind of inflation. He then put the brakes on a little early, forgetting he didn't have anti-locks...9/11 and Martha Stewart later, here we are
Let the indictments start...Cheney, Clinton, Reno, Kmart ;-)
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 18:51:09
Posted by: K,
Mr Sam - Do you "studder"? Probably not, but the way you keep repeating yourself, you may very well "stutter". Take your boring sermons over to that other guestbook, they're much more tolerant of diarrhea over there. Hell, I'm a Democrat, and even I have heard enough of your shit.
Sean - I have all the old Metal Legs as well, and it was the responses to the letters that were funny. Why didn't you post those?
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 18:33:56
Posted by: hoops, Rabid Dan Fan, Bush Hater, Gore Campaign Volunteer
So , Unless someone else is posting as you, Mr. Sam, sounds like you are responding to my post with a big "Fuck you, hoops." I relax things around here and you're fucking kill me. You should sign it, "Mr Sam, hoops' worst nightmare." Thanks bunches.
Sean: Metal Leg. New York Rock and Soul Revue. 1993 tour. What a time! What a blast! Thanks for reminding me first and foremost why we are really here. I needed that especially after the other shit.
h
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 18:29:35
Posted by: Mr.Sticks,
Get ready for summer beach party..Steely Dan Style!
Your Steely Fan Band will be at it again THIS FRIDAY NIGHT,July 19,2002 at 8:30pm!
Join us at the Studio Cafe on the sand in Newport Beach,Ca.as we celebrate not one,but three birthdays..Stacy,Therese and Wyman !
Free admission along with a NEW show AND surprise guest musicians!
Studio Cafe
100 Main Street
Newport Beach,Ca.
Thanks
Mr.Sticks
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 18:29:16
Posted by: Mister Sam, The Death of Reason (by a thousand little cuts)
Lou: Sorry, but you're talking out the wrong orifice. Yes, I've said lots about public affairs lately. That is indisputable (and,perhaps, unforgivable in your eyes. So be it.) But, my posts have always been in response other poster's comments, and I've contributed more than my share of commentary on SD as well. Want to talk SD? Then suggest a topic. Otherwise, stop bitching.
Sorry hoops. You're right. I've probably said MORE THAN ENOUGH about economics & public affairs. It's time that I stop trying to educate the willfully ignorant. As Paul Simon wrote, "a man sees what he wants to see, and he disregards the rest." That said, I guess it's time to "gather my papers and smile at the sky, cause I know that the hypnotized never lie." ... They're just brainwashed (and, perhaps, a little brain dead.) Poor fools. God help us all.
Peace.
PS - Democrats & anti-Republicans everywhere: Don't forget to vote in November, cause you just know that Earl and his fellow, holy-rolling, sheep will.
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 18:04:12
Posted by: Sean,
What a great story, Pete! Your writing caused me to get all out all my old copies of Metal Leg and look for the issue of you with Entwistle. It was issue 25, from eight years ago, August 1994. There on page 2 is a picture you beaming with Entwistle at your side. Seeing this picture, and getting out all the Metal Legs gave me this huge rush of all the excitement of ten years ago when the NY Rock and Soul Revue was playing Manhattan. And then eventually the east half of the USA. It brought back so many grand and warm memories of a time when we wondered if Steely Dan would ever tour or record again. It was the foreplay to the Orgasm of the Second Cumming of Steely Dan.
One of my favorite parts of Metal Leg was the letters in the back because I liked the humorous way you answered or DIDN'T answer them. It was a lot like Becker and Fagen would later do with their web mail bag. I hope it is OK that I have retyped some here:
Dear Peter:
Thanks for the mention in the latest issue of Metal Leg. I don't know what I did to deserve it, except for the fact that I have tried in all my own productions to live up to the high standards of Donald and Walter in theirs.
I read all the articles in one sitting and, as usual, there were some interesting tid-bits; I agree with Donald that Walter is one of the hippest bass players around, and, of course, it's always nice to get a little more background on any of Donald's lyrics, especially those on "Kamakiriad". Maybe it's because the album centers around a boy in his car, but I find this to be one of the best driving records around.
See you soon and keep the pedal to the metal.
Ben Sidran
Madison WI
(Ben Sidran is a noted jazz pianist and producer who hosted the "New Visions" jazz show in the early days of the VH-1 cable network. Ben is also known for his work with Steve "Fly Like An Eagle" Miller, amon other numerous artists.)
Dear Pete,
I saw your classified ad in Entertainment Weekly. I would like to receive information about the Fan Club Magazine. My favorite performer is Whitney Houston.
Sincerely,
Tonya Leslie
Birmingham, AL
Dear Pete,
I saw your Steely Dan Fan Magazine in Entertainment Weekly and would like you to sned me information on Slyvester Stallone and his fan club and his address. He is my favorite actor and I want to visit him. Enclosed is a self-addressed stamp envelope.
Sincerely,
Lisa Sartin
Bell City, LA
To Whom It May Concern,
On February the 9th, 1994, I sent you a self addressed stamped envelope asking for Slyvester Stallone's fan club address and other information on him. It is now May 9, 1994, and I still haven't received any notice. I am now trying you again. If you do not have any information on him or his address I would appreciate it if you would send me back some notice along with my self-addressed stamped envelopes.
Thank you!
Lisa Sartin
Bell City, LA
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 17:54:38
Posted by: Mister Sam, Earl's Worst Nightmare
Earl: Misinformation? I think not. Perhaps, you're just tired of being publicly exposed for your glaring lack of knowledge on subjects that you purport to know something about? Try reading a few newspapers or a book (or two) before casting yourself as a knowledgable source next time. When you've displayed something remotely approaching due diligence or reasoned argument, then you can lecture me about economics, history, baseball, business, political science, etc and expect to be taken seriously.
I, unlike you, Earl, am man enought to admit it when someone proves me wrong. [See thread on issue of global warming, and the evidence (or lack thereof) from Antartica.] I know what I know, and I do my homework before spouting off. Similarly, I don't throw rocks, and then whine from the comfort of my glass house about how I'm being persecuted for my beliefs. That, my friend, appears to be your forte.
Want some indisputable facts Earl? Well, here you go ...
THE ECONOMIC SCORECARD FOR OUR POST-WWII PRESIDENTS:
Average Annual Economic Growth Rate:
JFK (D) 7.9%
LBJ (D) 5.1%
Truman (D) 4.3%
------------------
CLINTON (D) 3.6%
------------------
Reagan (R) 3.4%
Carter (D) 3.2%
Nixon (R) 3.0%
Ike (R) 2.4%
Ford (R) 2.2%
Bush41 (R) 2.0%
------------------
BUSH43 (R) 1.6%
------------------
Source: Table 1-2: Real GDP. National Income & Product Accounts. Bureau of Economic Analysis, U.S. Dept. of Commerce.
Average Annual Rate of Job Creation:
Carter (D) 2.7%
LBJ (D) 2.3%
Nixon (R) 2.3%
Reagan (R) 2.0%
------------------
CLINTON (D) 1.7%
------------------
JFK (D) 1.3%
Ford (R) 1.3%
Truman (D) 1.2%
Ike (R) 0.8%
Bush41 (R) 0.5%
------------------
BUSH43 (R) -1.0% (That's right, MINUS 1.0%! The US economy has LOST 1.28 million job since "W" took charge.)
------------------
Source: Data Series Id: LFS11000000 (Employment Level - Civilian Labor Force). Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Labor.
Average Unemployment Rate:
Truman (D) 4.2%
LBJ (D) 4.2%
Ike (R) 4.9%
Nixon (R) 5.0%
------------------
CLINTON (D) 5.2%
BUSH43 (R) 5.2% (currently at 5.9% and trending upward)
------------------
JFK (D) 6.0%
Bush41 (R) 6.3%
Carter (D) 6.5%
Reagan (R) 7.5%
Ford (R) 7.8%
------------------
Source: Data Series Id: LFS21000000 (Unemployment rate - Civilian Labor Force). Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Labor.
Average Inflation Rate:
JFK (D) 1.2%
Ike (R) 1.4%
------------------
BUSH43 (R) 2.0%
------------------
Truman (D) 2.3%
------------------
CLINTON (D) 2.6%
------------------
LBJ (D) 2.8%
Reagan (R) 4.2%
Bush41 (R) 4.2%
Nixon (R) 6.1%
Ford (R) 7.0%
Carter (D) 10.4%
------------------
Source: Data Series Id: CUUR0000SAO (Consumer Price Index - All Urban Consumers). Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S. Dept of Labor.
Here are the summary scores for the 2 parties*:
Ave. Annual Economic Growth Rate:
Dems 4.5%
Reps 2.7%
Ave. Annual Job Creation Rate:
Dems 1.8%
Reps 1.3%
Ave. Unemployment Rate:
Dems 5.1%
Reps 6.1%
Ave. Annual Inflation Rate:
Reps 3.7%
Dems 3.9%
------------------
*Note: The party-level figures are weighted averages, based upon each president's lenth of service. Hence, Reagan's contributions to the Republican averages (ie, a two-term president) are twice that of Bush41 (a one-term president.)
Can you see the pattern? Do I studder Earl? Generally speaking, Dems good for economy; Reps bad for economy. It's that simple folks. [My figures don't come from Talk Radio or partisan think tanks. They come directly from non-partisan, official government sources like the US Dept of Labor and the US Dept of Commerce. If you ask me, I'll gladly send you the relevant links, and my University-approved, calculation methods.]
Notice how Dem presidents kick the crap out of Rep presidents on every macroeconomic measure except inflation (and, there, the difference is a mere two tenths of a percent per year.) Besides, one might fully expect Reps to do slightly better on inflation given all those "Inventory Liquidation Sales" and "Going Out of Business Sales" that recession-riddled, Republican administrations are so famous for? ... "When Black Friday comes / I'm gonna strike myself a deal / Gonna dicker with the salesman / Til I get myself a steal!"]
So, much as you handful of Clinton & Dem haters might wish otherwise, the FACTS ARE WHAT THEY ARE. The good news, however, is that there is still hope for you. [The fact that you respond favorably to SD music indicates that you've got at least a modicum of brain activity.] It's not too late! Repent! Walk towards the light baby, and dare to vote Democrat. It'll do you, your family, and the country some good.
[BTW, did I mention that Republicans ushered in the Great Depression? Seems to me that they were "pro-business" back then, too. So, please spare me the empty rhetoric that "pro-business" politicians are somehow better stewards of the nation's economy. It just ain't so, and the historical record supports that claim. If you remove your blinders, you might even see that our first MBA president his doing his best to reconfirm that for you right now.]
So Earl, when are you gonna learn to stop bringing that pop-gun sized brain of yours to a battle of wits? I know how tough the truth must be to swallow, but tough shit. I said it before; I'll say it again: Get a clue Earl. [Sorry folks. I admit that that last comment might have bordered on a cheap shot. If you're going to start insinuating that I'm some sort of propagandist or fascist, though, Earl, then the gloves are coming off. Unlike Clinton, I value my integrity, and, being the scientist that I am, I deal in measurable fact. You insult me by suggesting otherwise. Strong as my sense of the Golden Rule is, I also believe in reciprocity. Got it dumb ass?]
To quote Vincent LaGuardia Gambina (aka "My Cousin Vinny"), "Judge, I'm finished with this one, too." Next witness?
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 16:51:21
Posted by: Lou Chang, as far away from mister sam as possible..
Earl....AMEN!
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 16:49:48
Posted by: hoops,
I was roaring with approval when Sam brought up Abe Laboriel and Larry Carlton. Everyone in the office asked why I was clapping. I thought it was a succinct response from Sam to LC, meaning well all get back to the main course--'nuff said, IMHO.
The Bush talk has added some pepper to this place and, overall, this place has been the better for it. Right on, it's somehow in the spirit of the Dan.
But it's beginning to taste like some of you want to add the whole can of pepper to this Steely Fan stew. If some of you don't pull back a tad on the spicy secondary politics, etc., this place will be like the other forums that ended up being the reason I was asked to start this place, OK?
Overall, the past 2-3 weeks have been great,if you ask me. The amazing switch at the flick of a pick between Bush and humour and Dan has been one great aspect. Reading things like from Pete, jk and, to be honest, pretty much everyone 'cept myself, another highlight. But if you over-kill on the Bush thread and the like--all pepper and all saphron--I assure you we'll lose the great Dan talk.
It's ALL good, but in balance.
h
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 16:47:17
Posted by: Lou Chang, seeing yellow
Mister Sam- It is not so much that you discuss politics, it is the fact that it is ALL you talk about. Arguing politics is pointless. I don't care how good your argument is, you will never change anyone's mind. I don't read the yellow for this exact reason. A post here and there on the subject is one thing, but you are getting ridiculous. Enough already!
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 16:21:38
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Thanks for the info Mr. Sam. I haven't listened to much LC outside of his SD work. I really have been meaning to pick up some of his studio work.
Lou: I tried to argue w/ Mr. Sam, but he is a wonderful source of misinformation when it comes to politics. It's very frustrating to chat politics on this board. So, I would advise you to try to ignore the political talk on this board. Asking for it to stop just fans the fire. The Dan posts have been surprisingly prolific in recent days. Be thankful that we have such a wonderful place to chat about SD.
Earl
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 15:25:28
Posted by: Mister Sam, Who Put Ralph Reed in Charge of the Board?
Lou: You're right, I am a nice guy. Just ask anyone who knows me. And, I'm sorry if I somehow offended your sensibilities. That said, you're way out of line in seeking to censor the dialogue on this board (regardless of how nicely you ask.)
I didn't call anybody a Nazi, nor have I ever taken a cheap shot at anyone on this (or any other) board. I just responded to a few BLUE BOOK posts from this past weekend. And, last time I checked, fostering dialogue was the whole point behind bulletin boards such as this. [Remember, this is a "public forum." It's not a for-you, for-me, for-them, for-'em, or against-'em.]
If you want to limit YOUR OWN reading and participation to the merits of various SD demos or "Seven Degrees of SD" or whatever, then fine. Do so. I suggest that you skim posts for content and skip over those which aren't blue enough for your tastes. [If all that skimming makes you too tired, then, may I suggest that you learn to use the "Find" feature on your browser.]
Much as some may wish to narrowcast what "All Things Dan" means, the enduring SPIRIT OF SD is so much more than just one of instrumental, technical, and arranging excellence; it also encompasses bohemian intellectual curiosity, wise-cracking, subversiveness, and cold-eyed cynicism. As Denny Dias said in the Making of Aja, "you won't find any fart jokes in their humor."
So, Reverend Lou, much as it pains me to say, I humbly suggest that you should save the thought police rag for your church, civic groups, and workplace.
This is the night
Of the expanding man
I take one last drag
As I approach the stand
I cried when I wrote this song
Sue me if I play too long
This brother is free
I'll be what I want to be
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 14:23:39
Posted by: Mister Sam, Closer to Carlton's Home Than That of His Luthier
Larry Carlton's long-time luthier (ie, Valley Arts) is located in California, but LC himself does indeed live near Nashville these days. Their business relation, no doubt, traces back to the days when LC still lived on the Left Coast.
Earl: Surprised to hear that you didn't know who Abe Laboriel is. FYI, in addition to his SD recording credits, he also served with Jeff Porcaro & Steve Gadd as part of the rhythm section on LC's two best albums to date (ie, 1978s self-titled debut album & 1982s Sleepwalk.)
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 14:23:32
Posted by: Lou Chang, Greenflower Street
Mr.Sam- You seem like a really nice guy. But I switched from yellow to blue for more music/Steely Dan talk. Please keep the nazi stuff over at St. Al's.
Thanks!
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 12:50:53
Posted by: Mister Sam, Nazis & Commies & Freedom, Oh My!
Mu, Ole: Can we agree on the following?
[1] The Nazis were despicable.
[2] So were the Communists.
[3] Freedom is a good thing.
[4] Anyone who seeks to limit our freedom (in the defense of morality or in exchange for, say, enhanced safety or security):
[a] should be viewed with a great deal of suspicion (can you say Ashcroft?),
[b] should be taken to task as to how "the greater good is served" by our surrender of personal liberties, AND
[c] should be forced to obtain the consent of the governed before abridging those rights.
PS - Did I say that I like this morning's music posts, too?
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 12:42:12
Posted by: Mister Sam, Taming the Ar-Caine Mu-tiny
Today's Headlines
=================
Bush Flaps Gums (Again)
Denies Responsibility for State of Economy
DOW Tumbles 300 Points
Fifth Triple-Digit Loss in Six Days
Mu: When did you morph into Rush Limbaugh? Get a grip amigo. Bush41 wasn't merely disengaged, Bush43 ain't squeaky clean, and Clinton certainly wasn't the devil (nor, a Nazi as you implied.) Of your 10 "indictments" of Clinton, only (1) and (9) have any substance whatsoever. The rest are mostly warmed over Limbaugh-isms. Character assassination and playing loose with the facts is not becoming of you Mu.
Also, your economic logic is backwards Mu. (I'm sorry to say that Professor Sam must give you "a gentleman C" on this week's macroeconomics assignment.) The Fed's decision to refinance large portions of the national debt DID NOT CAUSE interest rates to do anything. Rather, the Fed refinanced large portions of the debt because interest rates had fallen (... substantially.) Furthermore, this WAS NOT a "creative accounting trick" as you suggest. It made good fiscal sense, and the logic behind it was painfully obvious. [Why, for example, do many homeowners refinance their mortgages when interest rates fall? ... ANSWER: To reduce the amount of interest that they must pay on the loan. Duh!]
Here's a short economic history quiz for y'all:
Question #1: Who was the last Rep president to serve without experiencing a recession under his watch?
Answer: Calvin Coolidge (served from Aug 1923 - March 1929)
Question #2: How many Dem presidents, since Coolidge, have avoided recession altogether during their administrations?
Answer: Three (JFK, LBJ, and . . . Clinton)
And, just to set the record straight Mu, Clinton had more than the economy going for him. On the international front, there were seven years of relative peace in Israel and Northern Ireland, continued normalization of relations with the former Communist block countries, and the end to the genocide in the former Yugoslavia.
Clinton, of course, didn't magically make this happen by himself, but his administration remained actively engaged, and good results ensued. The Clinton Administration made the world a more peaceful place than the one they inherited, and any suggestion to the contrary is just intellectually dishonest.
The growing proof that Clinton made major contributions to world peace lies in how fast Bush's wrong-headed isolationism proved the undoing of much of that progress. Only since 9/11 has the Bush administration finally begun to realize how foolish and dangerous it was for them to suggest that America could simply take a vacation from active participation in world affairs. Like it or not, we must remain engaged. Sometimes being the world's lone superpower is a shitty job, but that's the price we pay for our geopolitical hegemony and economic affluence.
PS - Nice music posts, too.
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 11:06:56
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
Stevee,
Larry Carlton lives in Nashville. I'm sure he spends some time in LA what with his project with Steve Lukather and other things but he does reside there (nashville). In fact, it was in an interview with Larry and Steve where he mentions it.
Dennis
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 09:46:40
Posted by: Whatevah happens,
Steveeedan, Chris Potter was on the '93 and '94 SD tours
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 08:04:40
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
When I was at a church conference back a month and a half ago, there were a number of musical performances going on. One of the guest players that was participating with their band was a bass player named Abraham Laboriel. I had never heard of him, but he was a very good player. They mentioned he was a well-known bassist, but for some reason I had never heard the name. So I came back and searched the All-Music Guide and Hans Verlouw's web site...turns out he played bass on Fagen's "New Frontier." Guess I had just never paid much attention.
Earl
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 07:26:02
Posted by: Beeberian, UK Dandom
How does this forum rate Trib bands then ??? Nec Evil ??
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 07:18:09
Posted by: Steveedan, Still typing away ... must get sleep ...
Hi again -
In my preceeding post I meant to write (in paragraph 4) "... and also played PREVIOUSLY unheard songs such as ..." Without that one word you'd think these songs were performed on dog whistles or something.
PETE FOGEL, MR. FOGEL !!! - Check it out ...
Pete? How are you man? Last Thursday night, at my new band Pretzel Logic's debut gig, I was with your childhood friend Matthew Papish. Matt's wife's sister is married to the brother of one of my closest friends. (I KNOW there's a joke waiting to be made after that line ...) He should be calling you about our gig ... at least he said he would. Anyway, about the "The Art Of Steely Dan" songbook, it's sitting on my piano right now ... has been for over a month. Darn good songbook. I need to contact Mr. Stix. Could you help me out? I have some questions and suggestions to offer to him.
Now, I would like to post the set list for the Pretzel Logic band's debut gig of last Thursday night:
1 FM
2 BABYLON SISTERS
3 DON'T TAKE ME ALIVE
4 REELIN' IN THE YEARS Alive In America version
5 BLACK COW
6 JACK OF SPEED
7 PRETZEL LOGIC with a special intro of my design
8 GREEN EARRINGS
9 GREEN FLOWER STREET
10 BODHISATTVA modified version of the Alive In America version
** BAND INTROS SHOW BIZ KIDS
11 PEG
12 NIGHT BY NIGHT
13 THE BOSTON RAG adapted from a version from the 1974 tour
14 AJA with the ending from Alive In America
15 GLAMOUR PROFESSION
16 JOSIE
17 KID CHARLEMAGNE
18 KING OF THE WORLD
19 MY OLD SCHOOL
I have a story to post about our kick-off gig, but I just fell off my chair. I will be back later today after some sleep ...
Have a great week everyone !!
Steveedan (A very happy camper who is gigging once again on the DAN)
Date: Mon, July 15, 2002, 06:58:52
Posted by: Steveedan, Los Angeles
I can't believe how much posting has been going on the past couple of weeks !!! It took me a long time to catch up, and it's tiring when moving my lips at the same time - ha ha.
Hi Norm de P. (great to see you at my gig last week) and Dennis. I hope that all is going greatly with you guys. I will give my (expectedly extremely biased account of the gig in my next post - but I must tell you it went well ...)
I wanted to chime in with some thoughts I had while reading all of the preceeding posts ...
(I'm not sure who wrote that the Dan shows of the early to mid '90's were nostalgic, but ...) I wouldn't necessarily classify the Dan tours of the 90's as merely nostalgic. They updated a number of tunes such as Do It Again, Midnight Cruiser, Reelin' In The Years, Rikki Don't Lose That Number, Everyone's Gone To The Movies, and also played unheard songs such as Wetside Story, Cash Only Island and also Jack Of Speed (unknown at the time) sung by Walter B. which as you all know was on 2VN 4 years later.
Also, I thought that guitarist Drew Zing, who is a young guy, was great on the '93 tour. John Beasley was great on piano and organ on the '96 tour and both trumpeter Michael Leonhart and his sister, backing vocalist Carolyn Leonhart, were on the '96 tour as well as the 2000 tour. If you have the Manassas, VA video of 7-21-96 you can see how young Michael and Carolyn look. Chris Potter has joined the horn ranks since (I think) '96 and he too is a young buck. So I believe that Becker and Fagen have been breathing new life into their music all along. There is a lot of material to handle for a casual listener (which I am not casual, that is ... I am a certifiable fanatic), possibly way too much for a casual listener to pick up on actually.
I am not so sure that Larry Carlton is based in Nashville. The reason that I say this is because one of the guitarists in my band had his 335 worked on by Carlton's guitar tech out here in LA, and when he went to go pick up his guitar, he was instructed by the guitar tech to meet him over at the studio where Carlton and other musicians (I have been sworn to secrecy ...) were working on a new CD. This was about 3 months ago. Yes, my guitarist met Larry and the other musicians at that time.
Doctor µ - Our bassist and good friend Jake told me that his Dad Victor Feldman didn't play on Sign In Stranger. That was Don Grolnick. On the Parker's Band demo, Fagen's piano playing is masterful, almost George Gershwin-esque. Check out his left hand. It took me a while to get that left-hand trill and still play the right-hand chords in time. Haven't pulled out this song to play in quite a while though. Denny Dias lives in LA, and (I have heard) he sells insurance. Wayne Shorter also lives in LA. I know this because, he was a client of mine before he changed business managers many years back.
Let me break here ...
More to come shortly ...
Steveedan
Date: Sun, July 14, 2002, 22:23:46
Posted by: reverend tribble,
reverend tribble of reverend tribble and the angels here. i wanted to share a great le bar bat, john entwistle memory. pete fogel has had me perform regularly at le bar bat over the last seven years,(thanks pete), the passing of john entwistle reminded me of a special evening. this was about six years ago, pete called and said the who was playing the garden, and after the show mr. entwistle was playing at le bar bat with his own band. he asked if my band at the time, the interesting guys, would like to open the show. what a great night it turned out to be. we opened, got the place rockin, then just about every great rocker in nyc jammed. i particularly remember jon paris, as always was fantastic. billy idol was there, it was a spectacular rock'n'roll evening. we will miss mr. entwistle, but thanks to pete fogel i have this great memory. i still play regularly at le bar bat,nyc, with my band, reverend tribble and the angels. for info email me at reverendtribble@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, July 14, 2002, 18:52:56
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Ole: I am confused - thought you had gone to nazi/Soviet from Nazi/Bush
Can't find any indication of a quote that the economy being robust under H in my
Fri, July 05, 2002,Ź01:05:47post or anywhere else...
Never said it. The economy was sluggish as H took his hand off the rudder to fish up in Maine. We did pull out of the recession in the Fall of '92, but too late for the watch glancing H. Economy was still puttering along at a 2-3% annual growth until 1996 when the "irrational exuberence" began...which ironically was started by Greenspan's clever plan to put the national debt on short-term loans, lowering interest rates. Should Greenspan be in jail for this creative accounting trick?
Bush41:out of it - yes! Nazi - no...
Hitler: Totalitarian State
Bush41: New World Disorder
Hitler - Government controls all industry
Bush41 clueless as to what was going on in industry
Hilter Government controls food and salary distribution to workers
Bush41 has no idea what a gallon of milk cost, or what those funny scanning machines were at the grocery store...
Hitler - Imperialistic conquest to create an empire
Well-armed and trained vicious secret service - SS and propaganda keeps citizens in fear...
Bush41 - citizens looking for thousand points of light above the haze
Hitler - Citizens controlled by fear and brainwashing by government published and broadcasted doctrine
Bush41 - Citizens brain dead from heavy metal and rap
Hitler: One party system
Bush41: This ain't no party, this ain't no disco...
Hitler: No freedom of the press
Bush41: Is his real name "Wolf Blitzer"?
Hitler: kills 6 million Jews
Bush41 supports Israel and oil; but forgets to finish of Saddam or put Geraldo in the way of a scud missle...
You said:
"My point was that judging an administration by the state of the economy"
YES! That's why Clinton was a slimeball - the ONLY thing he had going for him WAS the economy, and I voted for the moody bastard in the Fall of '02...
1) Lying under oath
2) stealing more FBI files than Nixon
3) He and Ron Brown asleep at the wheel or fermenting the greed and deception of the 90s (the REAL decade of greed). Enron's, Global Crossing, etc. committed their crimes on Clinton's watch. W needs indictments/convictions by Nov or a landslide Dem victory is suddenly likely (if we can muzzle Dasachle)
4) bald-faced prostitution of bankers and lobbyists in the White House
5) selling military secrets to China and other enemies
6) Reno attacks US citizens and immigrants again and again
7) out of control PC while Bill sets the women's movement back 30 years
8) Lost Alamos (no security, then practically burned down)
9) Pardons for dollars
10) more wiretaps than Nixon
Bush41 was limp, but I know who the real Nazis were...
Date: Sun, July 14, 2002, 17:20:35
Posted by: oleander, back a groove or 2
Mu--??? Now I miss your point. You were saying that Bush Sr. was OK because the economy did OK under him. My comment was a response to that. Are we clear now?
hupes--nize to talk to you. I did NOT get a chance to make sure you're on the sunscreen tip.
Date: Sun, July 14, 2002, 10:46:00
Posted by: DrMµ, not in Tibet
Sorry, atrocity quotient for the Kommies should read:
623,529/annum
Date: Sun, July 14, 2002, 10:42:53
Posted by: DrMµ, another cool day in Tejas
Mr. Sam: Skunk was born in DC, but was brought to LA with Dias by Katz and/or Walter and Donald from the NY area...Based on his accent, I'd say he spent his formative years in Queens or Long Island...anybody know for sure???
Ole: misleading? Let's Go SCOREBOARD!!:
Naughty Nazis:
Totalitarian State
Government controls all industry
Government controls food and salary distribution to workers
Imperialistic conquest to create an empire
Well-armed and trained vicious secret service - SS
Citizens controlled by fear and brainwashing by government published and broadcasted doctrine
One party system
No freedom of the press
Innocents killed: 6.5 million
Atrocity quotient of 6,500,000/(1945-1932 - yrs of existance) =
500.000/annum
Kommies:
Totalitarian States
Government controls all industry
Government controls food and salary distribution to workers
Imperialistic conquest to create empires
Well-armed and trained vicious secret service - ex. KGB
Citizens controlled by fear and brainwashing by government published and broadcasted doctrine
One party system
No freedom of the press
Innocents killed: 53 million (with some estimates to 100 million)
Atrocity quotient of 53,000,000/(2002-1917 - yrs of existance) =
500.000/annum
Date: Sun, July 14, 2002, 02:03:20
Posted by: Mister Sam, Whistling in the Dark
Pete: Great story. Thanks for sharing. The Best certainly sounds like it could have been one of the best. What a lineup! Not surprised to hear that JE was also a big fan of the Dan, though. The Dan (like Cream) have always had the reputation for being a musician's band.
Also, looks like I need to check out Cherry Lane's SD offerings. Haven't bought anything from them since I got my copy of the Heavy Guitar Bible twelve years ago, but perhaps it's high time that I revisited their wares. [Incidentally, the Heavy Guitar Bible was written by a bloke from your neck of the woods Earl.]
Earl: I hear what you're saying, and like Mu, I think you may be on to something. In some SD songs, the vocals do seem to play a supporting role to the instrumental mix (Green Earrings, for instance, leaps to mind.) In Becker's Off The Record episode for 11TOW, he admits that, some SD lyrics are meaningless ditties thrown in to support a musical idea Tunes like Bodhisattva, Show Biz Kids, and Aja seem to fit this description like a glove. On other songs, though, (eg, My Old School, Dr. Wu, DTMA, & Kid Charlegmagne) the narrative aspect of the vocal is central to the overall artistic statement, and, thus, can't be sumarily dismissed as a vamp, scat, or comp to the underlying instrumental groove.
Mu: Thanks for the geographical sort on the SD talent pool. Most of your list looks intuitively correct to me. I would classify McDonald as part of the LA crowd, however. I know he's not from LA, but that is where he lived in the latter half of the 70s. I imagine that many on the list came from somewhere else, too, but they moved to where the work was. (Rick Derringer, for instance, is from Muncie, IN ... home of David Letterman. I know this because a former bandmate of mine used to jam with Rick as a teenager in Muncie.)
BTW, where is Skunk from? I know he played with the Ultimate Spinach before joining the Dan, but know little else about his background. It's also kind of ironic that I and my fellow HOF Week revelers saw the Steely Damned, Rainey, Purdie, and Randall all performing in NYC (presuming, of course, that they are all SoCal-based as you suggest.)
Lastly, please don't encourage Madison Avenue's marketing prostitutes by referring to your vehicle as "pre-owned." George Carlin is, no doubt, having a fit right now ("How can something possibly be PRE-owned? It must belong to somebody.") Call it what it is ... a used car. [FYI, I just bought a used, fully-loaded, 93 Acura Integra, and couldn't be happier. The car sold for $20K new; I paid $3600 for mine. The bluebook retail on the car is $6500. (It always pays to buy from a private owner if you've got the time & patience!) With a little luck (and preventative maintenance), I hope to drive it for another 100,000 miles or so. New cars are mostly for suckers.]
W1P: I know where you're coming from. I once had a similar experience singing Breathe a capella over a great sound system to an empty house. What a rush. Something about the quieter Floyd tunes, when you nail 'em, are simply magical (with or without instrumental backing.)
RE: MMcD Backing Vocals: Next time you see the Steely Damned, Pink, request Peg and ask Jay to sing the MMcD harmonies. That will be especially impressive (particularly if he can manage to sing all 4 parts simultaneously! ;-)
Date: Sun, July 14, 2002, 01:06:06
Posted by: velveteen oleander,
Whoa--My point was that judging an administration by the state of the economy under it is excessively simplistic, yea misleading. I'll pass on the Pat Buchanan, thanks; I just bought a case of toilet paper.
I'd be satisfied to be a SURreal DanFan.
Date: Sun, July 14, 2002, 00:12:14
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Pete: awesome story!!...now I am convinced that the cigarette burns forming a crop circle around the ashtray in my recently purchased pre-owned car indicate a uhhhh potential Hard Rock collectible...
Earl: I had a hunch... see my Sat, July 13, 2002,Ź15:51:58 post...
Date: Sat, July 13, 2002, 23:26:34
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Mr. Sam: I agree, but I may not have represented my point. My point was that, although the vocals contain a melody, I think they try to make their melodies vanish into the soundscape. I guess what I'm trying to say is that they don't make it stand out and be as much of a lead "instrument" as most rock/pop icons do. Whatever they do, I just hope they keep on doing it!
Earl
Date: Sat, July 13, 2002, 21:37:09
Posted by: W1P, In An LA State of Facade
Mister Sam, yeah that part of I've Got the News was exactly what I was referring to when on April 12, 2002, I went to see The Steely Damned on my wife's birthday down at the Cannibal Bar. Sitting at my table was Jay, the singer for Steevee's Pretzel Logic band, and TSD launches into "I've Got the News." So I've got Tedde doing the lead vocal on stage and Jay singing the MMc parts in my left ear -- Jay's very good and that was extremely cool -- my TSD experience that night was completely different from anyone else's.
It's 6:35 p.m. and I just returned from Sound Check at the Canyon Club where Which One's Pink? is playing tonight. We had a couple guys missing tonight so I checked one of the vocal mics and did an cappella version of Pigs on the Wing (see Steely Knives, cutting room floor) over an incredible sound system -- what a blast! Too bad only the soundman and a couple of bartender heard it ;-)
Date: Sat, July 13, 2002, 18:02:40
Posted by: Cosmic WoW,
Pete, about all I can say is......
WOW.
(Hoops, could you take that up to a +3?)
Incredible stories! Not only am I glad you had the experience of meeting him, I'm glad Entwistle had the experience of meeting you!
WoW
ø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø
Date: Sat, July 13, 2002, 16:11:15
Posted by: Pete,
John Stix, who works with Cherry Lane music and is responsible for all the great SD songbooks that have been put out recently, called me yesterday asking my opinion on SD keyboard parts for his next book. He asked me what songs I would choose and I directed him to the bluebook and said all the great keyboard/piano songs were mentioned here. With the recent thread on this exact subject, the timing couldn't have been better. Thanks to you all for your input, and taking the workload off of me. His newest book for piano and other instruments is "The Art of Steely Dan" featuring more than 130 classic note-for-note intros riffs and Comping Grooves -- Analysis of Steely Dan's melody, harmony, rhythm, form, Instrumentation, and lyrics -- Plus discography and resources. It should be available at http://cherrylane.com/ soon.
Ok, here's my John Entwistle experience... I first met John at Le Bar Bat in the early 90's. He came in with a friend of mine (Steve Luongo) who played drums in John's solo projects. On this particular night we had Noel Redding playing. I mentioned to Steve how cool it would be if we could get John up on stage to give Noel a break. We both thought it might be pretty neat having these two legedary bass players on stage on the same night. John gets on stage and a very packed house goes absolutly nuts! Unfortunatly, the neighbors who live on top of the club also went nuts and called the police. I mean the second Entwistle plugged in, the room started shaking! John came back again a few months later to sit in with Steve's band. Before the show we had a few minutes to talk. I thanked John for sitting in and wanted to know if I could do anything for him. He said "a bottle of Remy would do". I had the waiter bring him the bottle and a snifter and John seemed pretty content. We started talking about his solo project and other bands he liked. I asked him what he thought of Steely Dan. He said not only did he love SD, he played in Japan with a band called "The Best". If I remember correctly, he said the band featured Simon Phillips on drums, Joe Walsh and Skunk Baxter on guitars, Keith Emerson on keyboards and John on bass. He told me what a blast he had playing Bodhisattva and Rikki. When I told him I did a fanzine on SD he asked me how much a subcription was. I told him we get $12.00 for a year. He pulled out a twenty said keep the change. Over the next few years John would come by the club when he was in town.
I remember he came on a very dead Thursday night. There were less than 100 people in the room. I was upstairs and didn't realize John had gotton up with the band that was playing. As I walked down the stairs, I hear these very distinct bass lines. It was just surreal hearing these licks knowing it wasn't a Who record on the cd player. There's John Entwistle playing on stage to a practically empty room. It was wild.
Even Shari had her own John Entwistle experience. At one point, I looked over at her, and there was John playing "air-bass" and teaching Shari his technique... not a bad guy to get some pointers from.
The one incident with John that I'll never forget was when he was standing on the balcony watching the band and smoking a cigarette. I was standing a few feet away when he yelled over to me, "Yo, mate, check this out!" John took the cigarette out of his mouth and began to strategically aim it for the ashtray on a table on the floor below him. There were two women sitting at the table which was 20 feet below the balcony. As I began to realize what John was attempting to do, I thought, oh no, don't do that. At that moment, John's lit cigarette goes tumbling down to the table below, not only missing the ashtray, but landing in the lap of one of the women. She, of course, jumps up freaking out and starts brushing hot ashes off of her. John sees this, puts his hand up to his mouth and says "oops", and runs off into the corner. I immediately run downstairs and try to calm this woman down, telling her that someone accidently dropped a cigarette. One of the bouncers who saw the whole thing runs over to me and asks if he should throw the guy out. I said, "You can't throw John Entwistle out of the club!" Anyway, John was always very nice, very gracious and very drunk.
Date: Sat, July 13, 2002, 15:51:58
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Mr. Sam: I'll can't vouch for 100% accuracy, but the groups go something like this:
LA: Hodder, Palmer. Benay, Parks, Carlton, Porcaro, Blaine, Paich, Purdie, Schmitt, Felder, Feldman, McCracken, Randall Omartian, Woods, Derringer, Scott, Greene?
New York: Dias, Skunk, Mounsey, Phillanganes, Marotta, Breckers (from Philly then Indiana U School of Music), Griffin? Gordon? Shorter? ( I assume that since he started with Miles)
St. Louis
McDonald
Texas to LA
Rainey
(He's been on the road since the 60s and Sam Cooke era)
Yes, the LA/NY switcheroo is explained clearly in the Makin of Aja DVD...
Fagen uses his voice even more as an instrument in TvN. He's worked on his tone quite a bit and has a trombone-like quality now. Of course, one cannot remove a vocalist and their effectiveness and their phrasing ability...and Fagen's up their with Sinatra in the ability to phrase IMO (though in much different ways for far different purposes)...One thing that Earl may be on the track of is how Fagen's voice is flush with the instumental mix on many albums like Royal Scam, Aja, and TvN. The notable exceptions are Gaucho and The Nightfly where Donald is punched up front...I think it works really well on those albums. Often in the rock/post-jazz era, the vocals have been buried in the mix. Some of this is transistor radio-play engineering I guess...Anyway, a very good example of the old-fashioned vocals up front approach is the Norah Jones debut, which is a Blue Note classic...
Date: Sat, July 13, 2002, 14:38:45
Posted by: Mister Sam, In a New York State of Mind
PP: Thanks for the correction about MMcD's participation on TOOM. Great tune. And, yes, you are quite justified in characterizing Gaucho as "the LA album." As D+W explained in the Making of Aja, their writing was often backward looking and kind of nostalgic. To wit, the tunes that they wrote in La La Land had lots of NYC themes and characters. As soon as they returned to NYC to begin work on Gaucho, though, they immediately started writing material about California. Interesting juxtaposition, huh? Lots of songs about NYC performed by LA session guys, followed by lots of songs about LA prominently featuring NYC-based guys. [This formula, of course, was not absolute, though. To be sure, you can hear the strong influence of LA session men like Jeff Porcaro and Tom Scott on Gaucho.]
Speaking of LA v. NYC, anybody here want to take a stab (with their Steely Knives, I presume) at sorting the list of prominent SD side men into LA-based v. NY-based units?
Mu: Thanx fer the keyboard credits. Looks like Omartian, Mounsey, Feldman, and (of course) Fagen are the Kings of the Keys.
To me, demos provide a wonderful insight into the processes of songwriting, recording, and arranging. It's hard to listen to Anroid Warehouse or the Parker's Band demo, for instance, without consciously comparing it to the final album version. Given these two data points (ie, demo and album cut), one is left to speculate about how the former evolved into the latter. Therein lie the lesson.
Earl: The human voice should ALWAYS be viewed as an instrument. Understand that Donald started out as a reluctant lead vocalist (SEE the various disparaging allusions in old B+F interviews to Palmer's "out of key" input on CBAT. Hell, for that matter, just listen to CBAT for yourself. The slowing and speeding of tape tracks is pretty obvious.) Still, it's hard to imagine hearing anybody else (save, perhaps, Walter) singing leads on their material. Proper attitude and phrasing are essential for SD vocals. The "prettiness" of the voice is of secondary importance.
Never forget Earl that Donald is more than just the singer; he's the NARRATOR of those tunes. [Kind of like the difference between Three Dog Night's version of "Mama Told Me Not to Come" and Randy Newman's original version. 3DN scored the Top40 hit, but Randy's version has decidedly more piss and vigor to it. The same holds true for Dylan's "Mr. Tambourine Man" and Neil Young's "Lotta Love." (Fagen's voice is "at times difficult to listen to ...." Earl????? Bite your tongue man! That's blasphemous.)]
Religion & the Apocalypse? One thing's for sure, the Lord definitely AIN'T in NYC ( ... anymore.) My guess is that THE GREAT ONE has bigger fish to fry these days in some far off corner of the galaxy. [Notice how I deftly side-stepped the issue of the creator's gender? ;-) ] If I'm right, like it or not, we citizens of planet Earth are just gonna have to figure out how to peacefully share this increasingly crowded little blue & white marble. As my homie Ben Franklin used to say, "we must all hang together, or we shall surely hang separately!" The Golden Rule baby. Need I say more? [Then again, to quote Dennis Miller, I could be wrong.]
W1P: "Broadway Duchess / Darlin' if you only knew. / Half as much as / Everybody thinks you do! ..." Oh yeah, that's what I'm talkin' bout!
Peg: Gotta get me a copy of "When I Was Cruel." Thanx fer the heads up. With regards to JJ, think I've owned just about everything he's ever done (up through Night Music, at least.) It's very fitting that he and Ben Folds chose to do covers of SD tunes because they all seem to share similar attitudes and musical sensibilities. Since you brought up Look Sharp, however, this is for you Peg, from my little corner of this Big World to yours. (Sorry Earl, but the Pied Piper of the TV screen won't be illustrating this one with cartoons!):
Look Sharp (music & lyrics by Joe Jackson, 1979)
Big shot, tell you what
Tell me what goes on around here
Go on and get me in the corner
Smoke my cigarettes and drink my beer
Tell me that this world is no place for the weak
Then you can look me in the eye
And tell me if you see a trace of fear
CHORUS:
You gotta look sharp
You gotta look sharp
And you gotta have no illusions
Just keep going your way looking over your shoulder
Okay, what you say
Tell me what they're wearing this year
Go on and laugh at me cause you don't see
That I got something going right here
Say I'm just a dreamer
Say I'm just a kid
Well ace, shut your face
Maybe you will see or hear
CHORUS
Big shot, thanks a lot
Gotta go it's getting late
I got a date with my tailor now
Thanks for putting me so straight
Tell me how they run the crime down every street
But check your watch and wallet now
Before I go and you're too late
CHORUS
Date: Sat, July 13, 2002, 13:15:17
Posted by: Lou Chang, that's where you'd be if you found one
Mu...Don't get me wrong. There are a (very) few of those early demos I like...Brain Tap Shuffle being one of them.
Earl- Two versions of Sun Mountain. Fagen sings one of them. I guess you only heard the other one.
Date: Sat, July 13, 2002, 13:08:41
Posted by: ,
Date: Sat, July 13, 2002, 11:29:39
Posted by: µ, Tejas
Lou Chang: I can't say I'm a big fan of most of the early demos either (unlike the Gaucho demos/outtakes), with the possible exception of snappy yet creepy Come Back Baby...something about the dysfunctional tension and harmonies of the line"...my old man never showed me how..." Don't Let Me In covered later by Skunk's sneaker is no stinker either...
Favorite piano performances/moments"
Warren Berdhardt - "Book of Liars" on AiA... in the instrumental break check out the communication between he and Erskine
Michael Omartian - "Dr. Wu"
Michael Omartian - "Your Gold Teeth II"
Michael Omartian - "Rose Darling"
Michael Omartian - yes, that interplay with Walter's solo on Bad Sneakers in fantastic
Michael Omartian - "Here at the Western World" classic Dan sound...
Michael Omartian - "Aja"
Donald Fagen - "Any World" - When Michael McDonald and Fagen are repeating "any world that I'm welcome to.." in the outtro there's a little descending run that gives me chills...
Donald Fagen - Fire in the Hole...MONK-ee in his soul...nice drum roll at the end of the intro by Hodder...his best moment (am I the only one that wishes Gordon or Porcaro could have been the drummer on CBAT and CTE?)
Donald Fagen - takes a stab at the new millenium in TvN title track
Donld Fagen - "The Nightfly" title track
Rob Mounsey - "Glamour Profession" the solo is a crowning fusion of Broadway and Hollywood...
Rob Mounsey - "Gaucho"
Victor Feldman - "I Got the News"
Victor Feldman? - "Sign in Stranger"
Greg Phillinganes - "Maxine"
Date: Sat, July 13, 2002, 11:06:52
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Sorry dude, but I'm pretty sure that Sun Mountain was sung by a different guy, probably Kenny Vance (ref. Hans Verlouw's site). The piano is pretty good, but the whole CD is tough to listen to because of the unrefined nature of the recording. I find the songs a good lesson in how musically knowledgable they were even back in the days when they were struggling to get signed.
Earl
Date: Sat, July 13, 2002, 10:27:53
Posted by: Lou Chang, Her brother...is burning!
Hold on, hold on! Sun Mountain "one of Don's best vocals"????
Ok, I know that comment was just a joke...right? Please tell me you're are kidding...please!
First of all.....I hate that song. Second, Fagen's voice starts to crack whenever he tries to hit the high notes. Maybe that's why the song was a demo that NOBODY ever should have heard in the first place! Let's give jk's friend, Kenny "let's give Vance a chance" the credit for that piece of crap song to be let out in the first place.
p.s. I love Steely Dan... but those eary demos are just plain bad.
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 23:17:24
Posted by: W1P,
MMc = I've got the News!
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 22:32:47
Posted by: sharkdeville, on the KLH
A few of my favorite piano moments:
1) Sun Mountain (also one of Don's best vocals)
2) Kings (give it a listen)
3) Reelin' (i love what the piano plays on the verses)
4) Bodhisattva (the I and VII chords at the beginning, and that big chord at the very end... the last thing you hear)
5) Rikki (those pretty notes during the verse...esp. verse 2)
6) Charlie Freak
7) the entire 'Katy Lied' album (imagine how it was SUPPOSED to sound!)
8) Mister Sam
9) Talkin' Bout My Home
10) Sign In Stranger (had to mention it again-- who's playing?!!)
11) The Fez (intro)
12) Royal Scam (intro)
13) Black Cow & Gaucho (demo versions)
14) Maxine (lovely intro)
15) New Frontier (ode to Brubeck)
16) Confide in Me (Don goes gospel)
17) On the Dunes
18) the live segue from Deacon Blues into Tomorrow's Girls
19) Reelin' (live 90s version... love the count-off)
20) Fagen's instructional video (...tasty!)
Whew! ...and that was strictly acoustic piano. Don't get me started on the Rhodes, melodica, or Donald's synthitar!
Joe Jackson gets a nod for his stellar, stripped-down take on "King of the World"... sounds mighty grand on the baby grand.
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 22:27:22
Posted by: Peg, Back home again
Well waddya know -- a radio marathon! What kindof format does that station have, when it's not marathonning....I wonder...probably not owned by Clear Channel. :)
Mister Sam! Since ya mentioned Elvis Costello's greatest in yer CD, might I barge in and suggest his new ne, "When I Was Cruel," if you don't have it yet. And concerning Joe Jackson: if you don't have his 1980-ish but oh still so fresh "Look Sharp," I highly recommend it also.
Have a fine weekend ya'all..........
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 22:10:28
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Glad to see we somewhat agree on something Sammy. I'll say this, I explain to my colleagues (who don't understand my SD fascination) my theory on Fagen's singing. I believe the Dan use vocals as a solo instrument, and even though their lyrics have deep, thoughtful meanings, they intentionally bury the meaning to lead the listener to a place where they consider the lead vocalist an instrument. Thus, Fagen is more of a musical instrument than a narrator, from my listening vantage point. Not to mention, I think that the Fagen/McDonald relationship to the band is kind of a metaphor for the band. They have a pleasant-sounding, strong-winded vocalist singing the backup and a whiny, soft, rough-sounding guy singing the lead. It kind of goes along with the way they go against all of the typical stereotypes of the rock band. So anyway, Fagen's voice, while at times difficult to listen to, conveys the message very well (since he's one of the few who know what they're singing about) and knows how to use his instrument in many interesting ways (much like a guitarist might use pinch harmonics or a series of bends and releases to add flair).
Don't get me wrong, I think that's what makes Fagen a great vocalist. I'm just saying that I think that the vocals/melodies are tailored to be more musical and less singable, and that gives the songs a great jazz feel.
Earl
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 21:55:51
Posted by: hoops,
Pivotal Pete: How could anyone forget MMc on "Time Out of Mind"?
Of course, legend has it, that Larry Carlton's solo for "Third World Man" was recorded for an earlier Steely Dan album and then later used for the "Gaucho" sessions. Now where did I see that story? Is it true?
Debating Religion? I think discussing the APOCALYPSE could have potential for this bunch.
"You know that the coming is so close at hand..."
Hmmm..."the coming "???
h
Date: Posted at the top the Blue Book Fri, July 12-19, 2002,
No Static 2002 - The Steely Dan Marathon
Thursday, July 18th 2002. 7:00 am -1:00 am ET
18 Hours of Sweet Steely Dan Music
Traditional Broadcast: WBWC 88.3 FM—Cleveland
RealAudio Stream: http://www.wbwc.com—Worldwide
[ more details ]
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 21:41:49
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California
Thanks for other thoughts on keyboard gems. It'll be a chance to give a new listen to some songs I've never thought of as keyboard songs. Of the items mentioned, a couple that standout to me are Home at Last -- those opening chords do something unexplainable -- and 2vN -- can't figure how how to follow that arrangement.
Re: MMcD and Gaucho. Gotta remind y'all about "Time Out of Mind" -- he almost does steal that one, and really adds to one of the funkiest SD songs.
Hey, maybe we can analyze TOOM, Bodhisattva, Chain Lightning, 2vN and spend some time debating RELIGION for a while!
Pivotal
P.S. I know Gaucho was recorded in NY, to me it's always been "the LA album". Am I alone?
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 21:15:55
Posted by: hoops, Update on potential Labor Day weekend Danfest
I've received more than a few inquiries from interested Dan Fans about the possibility of a Big Wing Ding for Chicago on Labor Day Weekend. Most of these people wanted to know so they could secure] plane tickets in advance, meaning this is shaping up to be a national or international event. Sure, this won't be as great as the NYC Hall of Fame Week Spring Danfest in 2001, but it would be great for us all to get together.
Labor Day weekend (August 29-September 2) is looking to be the choice date because that's the weekend of the CHICAGO JAZZ FESTIVAL. The fest is sponsored by the Jazz Institute of Chicago and features both international and local talents in Jazz. See:
http://www.jazzinstituteofchicago.org/
This year, international talents tentatively slated include Wayne
Shorter, Phil Woods, Eric Reed and Danilo Perez. Saturday and Sunday would be the two days to catch their performances, as well as the locals. All of these events take place in Chicago's front yard, Grant Park. The magnificent Chicago skyline serves as a backdrop to the concerts and Lake Michigan, Buckingham Fountain (aka The Bundy Fountain), the yacht harbor and the green grass of Grant Park make for a refreshing and relaxing experience.
On top of that, it would be swell to arrange a Friday night gig with Katy Lied, the new Steely Dan cover band based here in Chicago, assuming a gig could be arranged. Plus, there is lots of other fun you can have while you are in Chicago...I'm sure the plethora of Jazz clubs, not to mention I could reserve volleyball at North Avenue beach for us if there was enough interest. Add some of the finest restaurants in the country and it should be a great experience, centered around Dan Fan friendship.
WHICH LEADS ME TO THE BIG QUESTION:
WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN ATTENDING?
Email me at hoops@dandom.com by next Friday as I would have to start getting the wheels in motion for this to happen.
Thanks!
h
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 19:25:04
Posted by: hoops,
AWESOME THREADS, esp today!
h
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 18:57:16
Posted by: Mister Sam, On the Record
Dennis: I concur with your comments about the current SD lineup. When it comes to understanding D+W's choice of "session" musicians these days, though, I would also offer these points for your consideration:
[1] Unlike the late '70s, when D+W write and record nowadays, they are apt to consider the viability of performing the finished product "live." This explains why Walter handles a lot more of the soloist duties on 2VN & Kamakiriad. [See the World Premiere of 2VN radio program for an elaboration of this.] It also explains why Jon Herrington is featured prominently on their recent studio efforts (ie, he's very versatile musically, AND apparently he's committed to both studio & touring duty.)
[2] As always, D+W continue to seek out "the best man for the job." Geographical proximity to the studio, availability, facility with the musical genres addressed, top-notch reading skills, and being "in game shape" all factor into this equation. Dias & Baxter are pre-occupied by other interests these days and are geographically distant to Hawaii & NYC. Carlton was recovering from near-fatal gunshot wounds a few years ago, lived circa Nashville, and had his solo career + Fourplay gigs to tend to. Rainey and Purdie were (and probably still are) less than enthusiastic about the touring half of the equation. These factors, coupled with their outstanding chops, made Herrington, Barney, Lawson, Baker, Potter, Leonhart (M&C), Pugh, and Calhoun logical choices for SD duty in the new century. Given their high profiles on 2VN, one can only speculate why Roger Rosenberg, Lou Marini, and Lawrence Feldman weren't part of the 2000 touring ensemble as well.
Earl: I agree with most of your points ON THIS TOPIC. ;-) I'm guessing, however, that Michael McDonald's absence on Gaucho had more to do with his other commitments at the time (ie, Doobies frontman, songwriter, appearances on albums by Christopher Cross, Nicolette Larson, etc), and the fact that he was based in LA (I believe Gaucho was recorded mostly/all in NYC) than on a fear that MMcD might upstage D+W on their own recordings. Don't forget that MMcD joined the NY Rock & Soul Review at Don's request. Also, Don was once quoted as saying that relegating MMcD to the status of backup singer was one of the worst wastes of musical talent that he knew of.
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 16:57:25
Posted by: Dennis, you know
Hey, Ricky Lawson and Tom Barney are seasoned players with a more "modern" sound, I wouldn't call them young or even newcomers to the scene. SD always had the hottest players back in the '70's too so why would they date themselves now? Rainey and Purdie are still great but their sounds are basically the same as they were in the '70's. If SD wanted to be nostalgia act (which their live shows tended to be before 2VN)they could use the old players. Jon Herrington is right in New York which makes it easier for them probably. Carlton is based in Nashville now and doesn't do sessions anymore. Everybody else is pretty much still on the west coast. Parks, Dias, Graydon etc.
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 16:43:42
Posted by: HeyMike, west of windy city
Dennis, I agree with it all, having seen you guys 4 times now, you need some city dates. (even though I live 40 miles NW). You need to cultivate the city Dan fans, casual and otherwise. Hard Rock could be a start..but you wont see City folk in there. Sailors from Great Lakes and bus loads from Iowa usually. There is no shortage of neighborhood bars that would be a gas to see you guys in.
Keep playing though and we'll keep showing up!
HeyMike
p.s I caught my 10 year old playing air guitar to "Rikki" yesterday when he didn't know I was looking, very cool!
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 15:45:58
Posted by: hoops, West Loop
A Hard Rock Cafe has never been especially appealing to me, but having never been there, maybe my opnion could change. I mean look at John Entwistle. Didn't he once say he wouldn't be caught dead at a Hard Rock?
[ Je regrets. My evil twin couldn't resist! ]
Back to work.
h
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 15:34:35
Posted by: W1P,
I've said it a million times -- I come at the Dan from the "rock" angle and, while I love the "jazz" stuff, by natural bias pulls me to Royal Scam backwards as my favs rather than Aja forward. Now, I don't believe that such a bias DQs me as a "real" Dan fan but I could be wrong (in which case, I'll have to march into Aja's room and tell her that her name is now Vera Lynn)
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 13:50:58
Posted by: Cosmic,
My owie.
I meant PROSPECTIVE not perspective.
Bad WoW
ø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 13:49:44
Posted by: Cosmic WoW,
Long Time no see, my co-horts!
So much has happened, so much has been said, so many politicians bashed! Sadly, though, no more concrete news on a new Steely Dan album!?
"Real" Steely Dan fans? Maybe perspective "real fans" could sit for an written test, a colal-rectal exam (to see how anal they are) and a driving test, and then be certified "REAL." They could have a seal like "REAL" on cheese! They could wear them to concerts. Am I making my point?
REALly tho. Yeah, I'd prefer to see the Dan or even a Dan cover band at a special place devoid of chainism, but will see them where ever they play. Sound system is most important of all, followed by whether the security is a bucha dicks. I have never set foot in a Hard Rock Cafe and the idea makes me winces. But I definitely would get over it if D and W played there; but I'd wait for a cover band to show up for a corner pub over running down to the local Hard Rock. Wouldn't too many appearances in a Hard Rock and similar chains peg you as a nostalgia act? Jus wunnerin.
Good explanation of why SD cover bands do what they do. I guess if you learn to play Steely Dan, you can tackle some great originals as well. It's talent building, baby!!!
WoW
ø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø,ų ŗ°`°ŗ ų,øø
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 13:20:36
Posted by: dennis, the windy city
Earl,
Trying to play these songs as the sole guitarist can be like a one legged cat trying to bury shit on a frozen pond. I just try to blend in with the keyboards and when called for, play the most important, recognizable parts. It works pretty well. Anyone have a review of the Pretzel Logic show last night? Stevee, how'd it go?
Dennis
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 11:41:02
Posted by: Oil,
I'm with you, Earl!!!!
BTW: Wasn't "Socks" the Secret Service's code name for Chelsea's pussy?
I like Haitian Divorice more now than I did a few minutes ago.
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 11:35:13
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Oil: Nice try. While I don't think it's a big deal to pick on the Bush twins, I find it hard to believe that Chelsea was a saint. But one way to look at it is that Clinton created so much controversy on his own that digging up Chelsea's skeletons was not a real necessity for the press.
Earl
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 11:31:10
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Dennis: I can imagine about learning the music. There's just so much depth to their recordings. I have been working on xscribing the guitars for "Gaslighting Abbie," and there are at least 4 guitar parts (I do it because I figure it will eventually help me learn to read music better; I'm OK at reading music, but can always get better). I'm sure with one guitar it's tough to pick out what needs to be played, whether you just vamp the best fitting chord or play one of the parts. I'd like to get a Dan band going at some point, but it would take quite a bit of time to get the music together and to find players.
Earl
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 11:30:18
Posted by: Oil,
Good God! It's bad enough you Dems refuse to show unity by questioning our leader during Wartime. But to pick on his daughter? SHOW A LITTLE REPSPECT FOR JENNA'S WETLANDS!
I like Haitian Divorice somewhat.
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 10:46:27
Posted by: dennis, chicago
Yada, we are very focused on the meanings of the songs but it's a challenge to get the music down more than learning the lyrics at this point. We are very aware of the great lyrics and talk about it a lot though. I see what you mean about Hard Rock, the manager there that we've been talking to didn't even know who Steely was! I would like to play anywhere downtown just so people in the city could come to more shows. I don't care where it is at this point I just want to play in the city!
You asked where cover bands want to go. I joined the band because I just moved here 7 months ago and it's a great opportunity to be seen around the area and play some great tunes. I'm not going to get rich or famous playing in a Steely Dan cover band but it has kinda helped me get my foot in the door of the Chicago music scene. I am working on my own CD and have an original band, maybe it'll help. It can't hurt! That's the plan.
Thanks
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 09:42:54
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Howard: I can buy that. As I said, I wasn't trying to knock the new crop of musicians, because they have done a fine job. From interviews it sounds like they try to find the proper stylistic fit most of the time. And not to mention, the main reason Carlton ended up on Gaucho was because they morphed "Were You Blind That Day" into "Third World Man", and they carried over Carlton's guitar work that was laid down.
I also wonder if it's their own way of making sure that Steely Dan remains THEIR project. Michael McDonald ended up being left off Gaucho, and I wonder if that was because they were as much noticed for McDonald's voice as for other things. They came up with the elusive Zack Sanders, who almost seems to be a fictional character. He sang on the Schoolhouse Rocks album, but other than that he appears to have been a studio vocalist for R&B singers of the time. Not much as far as photographs or anything on the internet.
Have there been any other rumors about the potential for the next album? Metzger updated w/ the Dan radio marathon coming up, but the info has been sparse to say the least.
Earl
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 08:05:10
Posted by: Howard, It's a Russian invention for tea
Earl: I don't know for sure, but I'd be surprised if D+W's choice of musicians for 2VN was limited by finances. They usually seem to get what they want. Also, think of it this way: they record their first album in 20 years. Is it really surprising to find that they use mostly new, younger musicians, rather than the guys they last worked with 20 years ago?
I think I agree with Dave's original suggestion, that D+W are more than likely seeking out fresh and original talent for the new sessions. This is what they've always done after all. Burnard Purdie was heavily featured on the Royal Scam, but only gets an occasional track on later albums. Larry Carlton was used extensively for Royal Scam and Aja, but not much for Gaucho. Like true artists, they are constantly re-evaluating what they do and how they do it, and are not scared to re-invent themselves or change the team for a new project. As I see it, this comes from artistic need, rather than from financial limitation.
Howard
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 07:32:58
Posted by: norm, leaving work
Congrats to Stevee and the others in Pretzel Logic for a job well done!
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 07:28:44
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Hey Me and Yada,
I guess you're right. Now that I think about it, "VH1 Storytellers" is definitely not the establishment, is it?
Play anywhere and often Dennis. While the Hard Rock is probably won't have the same ambiance as a club, I say if you're starting out and needing to play gigs, take the money. As someone else said, Dan fans will follow you. And who knows, maybe you'll get a few people to buy them some Steely Dan because of the music they heard. I say go for it. If you don't, someone else will.
Earl
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 07:10:29
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Dave: I think their hiring practices are probably as much practical as anything. Their later albums in the 70's featured some prominent jazz musicians and studio hands of the time. I think they realized going into recording 2VN that they couldn't afford the big names that they had at their disposal back when they were raking in the dough. Not to take away from the current musicians, because they obviously are very good. But I think from a money standpoint they probably couldn't go out and get the guys they used to get.
Granted, a few of the musicians from those earlier recordings (Victor Feldman, Paul Griffin to name a couple) have passed away. But I have a feeling that it would cost them more than they are willing to pay for a prominent guitarist (Larry Carlton for example) to do some session work for them.
And with guitar, Becker seems to have more confidence in his soloing abilities, with him picking up all of those parts on 2VN. But since we haven't heard any rumors since December about the progress of the recording sessions, I guess it's tough to speculate what's they'll do this time around.
Earl
Date: Fri, July 12, 2002, 03:59:00
Posted by: W1P,
My opinion: If your local Hard Rock has a good sound system then that's really all that matters. "Real" (and by the way, who's to judge?) Steely Dan fans (at least those who are not offended by the idea of a tribute band) will come see you wherever you play. If it sounds good, they'll come back. The House of Blues suffers from the same "chain" ambience as the Hard Rocks do. But the sound is incredible and the crowd takes over to make the shows incredible -- they don't care about the trinkets on the wall -- they like the stage, sound, lighting and performance.
Date: Thurs, July 11, 2002, 19:22:32
Posted by: Me, Out there, e-me sometime.
Yoda's right, Real Steely Dan fans want nothing to do with Hard Rock Cafe. Hard Rock Cafe is Yawn Wenner's tourist trap. Asshole who gave SD such a hard time getting them into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Then Yawn reads their induction anouncement and pronounces "Aja" "AHH ZHA" . He's a DORK. Won't set foot in his play pen.
Torist trap lovers frequent the Hard Rock cafe and ask, "Steely Dan? Didn't he sing "Running on Empty?" "
Hard Rock Cafe is for Foreigner fans who might grudgingly want to hear Rikki Don't Lose That Number. It's also where Jenna Bush sneaks her underage drinking.
Speaking of our Nation's "First Underage Drinker," I recently read a headline,
JENNA BUSH'S FEDERALLY PROTECTED WETLANDS NOW OPEN FOR PUBLIC DRILLING
Date: Thurs, July 11, 2002, 18:39:17
Posted by: Yada yoda yidda,
Dennis,
Based on what I've heard about Katy Lied, it sounds like you guys have made a great deal of progress in a short time. You all must be a talented bunch to get a grip on the songs you have. And many of the reports I've read all tend to mention your guitar abilities as a highlight. Based on your last post, I have to offer some opinions on how Dan fans see their favorite band.
Steely Dan takes an artful approach to music, innovating through the incorporation of literary, jazz and blues influences. Any good creative work can be appreciated even at the simplest level. I guess that's why Steely Dan is so popular even as elevator music and that a group of Steely Dan love their songs just for the sound of it. At the same time, a sizeable number of Dan fans love Steely Dan for more than the sound and technical prowess, although those too are major elements that make Steely Dan. These fans appreciate the subversive and humorous political and social commentary contained in both their lyrics and the subtle nuances of their music which meticulously underscores and colors--often ironically--their words. I'd almost call Steely Dan "noir rock." Based on your posts, my hunch is that you and perhaps your cohorts in Katy Lied are not so focused on that aspect.
The appeal of hearing Steely Dan music, even Steely Dan cover music, gets heightened in atmospheres that have a sense of authenticity or novelty to them. Part of this is due to the subject nature of Steely Dan's songs and part is that Becker and Fagen are sneeringly anti-establishment. Don't get me wrong, getting a gig opening for Foreigner is a big step in getting here to wherever a Steely Dan cover band wants to go. (Where do Steely Dan cover bands want to go any ways?) So would fetching a gig at the Hard Rock Café. Shit,when they were starting out, Steely Dan opened for the likes of Sha Na Na, Elton John and Kiki Dee--just so they could get to a point where they could have a lot more autonomy in their work.
But here's my point, most die-hard Steely Dan fans would prefer NOT to go to a show in a Hard Rock Café (i.e. a McDonald's Theme Bar tourist trap) nor do they care how far they have to travel to hear good music. I think a number of us hope for Steely Dan or Steely Dan cover band shows in the city because the city often (but not always) lends itself to the setting and ambiance of Steely Dan and SD-inspired music. A lot of these one-off bars are a helluva lot more authentic than Hard Rock. Shit, many Dan fans fly hundreds of miles just to see Steely Dan cover bands. Like dozens flew to New York just to hear a Steely Dan cover band at a great inde bar. A Hard Rock would have been a negative. Or Steely Dan fans have flown thousands of miles to Seattle and then drive a couple hundred more in a rented car just to see them in the unusal location of The Gorge in middle of bumblefuck Washington State since it's so unusual.
I understand why fans of the Eagles, Foreigner, Rush, Jimmy Buffet, Doobie Brothers, and other guitar bands love Steely Dan. But I bet the boys and many of their most dedicated fans see them a lot less in those ranks and more so among the ranks of Dylan, Howlin' Wolf, John Lee Hooker, John Coltrane, Billy Holiday, William Burroughs and Dave Brubeck. Do what you gotta do to finance the gigs, but don't focus on Hard Rock as an ideal local gig in your city.
Here's hoping you make it out east or west sometime.
Date: Thurs, July 11, 2002, 17:33:47
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
Mister Sam,
It is a challenging set and for it to work a lot of people have to do their jobs. We have been getting great reviews and a lot more gigs are coming our way but you'll still hear about things we need to work on for a while though, the show's not perfect. We're a young band, can only rehearse so much and have only done a handful of shows.
We are currently working on getting gigs in the City, I live there too and driving to the burbs all the time is a pain in the ass for me and I'm in the band! There's talk of some pretty cool shit like Hard Rock, we'll have to wait and see. I'll keep you posted on upcoming shows on the Blue here and look forward to meeting you at a show soon!
Dennis
Date: Thurs, July 11, 2002, 16:10:18
Posted by: Dave,
One thing I've noticed about Becker and Fagen's albums since the 90's is that they do not go back and rely on the older talents introduced on their 70s recordings. Instead they choose to feature and give breaks to new, up and coming talents. Good on yer mates!
Date: Thurs, July 11, 2002, 16:08:04
Posted by: Mister Sam, At the Fact-Checking Desk (Again)
Dennis: Great set list. You guys must have a sizable set of stones to tackle such a challenging collection of tunes. And, based on the reviews I've seen, Katy Lied appears to be the real deal. Any plans to venture eastward from Chicago for a few performances?
Earl: Deborah Orin of the NY Post? R U Fuckin' kiddin' me or what? Citing Orin and the New York Post on law & politics is like citing the Weekly World News on the existence of two-headed alien babies. Can you say Goebels and Reifenstahl?
I read that supposed assemblage of "facts" and found an op ed piece with few hard facts, but tons of guilt by association and innuendo. Perhaps Daschle's wife works for a law firm that does some lobbying. Fine, if YOU work for a mid-cap or large-cap company, then you probably do, too. If so, would that make me justified in calling you a crook, Earl? Of course, not.
Since you chose to cite an op ed piece from a political hack working for a scandal rag, just thought I'd offer a little balance by citing a left-wing, underground journal like the Village Voice, who characterized Deborah Orin as "a right-wing conservative mouthpiece." Here's a link to a Village Voice piece that lumps Ms. Orin together with other right-wing scandal mongers like Matt Drudge and the Washington Times (see David Brock's book Blinded by the Right):
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0019/ridgeway.php
Date: Thurs, July 11, 2002, 12:41:58
Posted by: Yeah, yeah, yeah.,
Earl, I'm a woman, from Latvia, studying here in the United States.
At least we agree on one thing: we both like "Haitian Divorice"!!!
Zane
Date: Thurs, July 11, 2002, 12:30:51
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Whoops, I messed up. I misspelled it.
I like "Haitian Divorice".
Earl
Date: Thurs, July 11, 2002, 12:29:43
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Gee, I didn't realize that the prostitutes on the street making $1000 a pop are any worse than the ones doing it for $2.50.
And to follow the new regulations stipulated by Zane (gee, more regulations?), I will do as he asked.
I like "Haitian Divorce."
Earl
Date: Thurs, July 11, 2002, 12:21:33
Posted by: Yeah, yeah yeah,
Earl, I never said only the majority of Republicans were whores. Actually, the majority of POLITICIANS are whores. However, the difference between the Bush Republicans and other politicians are that the others are small time whores, while the Bush Republicans are like the ultimate whore/Madame---Madonna. Could you at least tack on the end of your post, "I like 'Haitian Divorice'?" Maybe "Sign In Stranger II" will be about an underground mafia that exploits other planet's environments for their own benefit and indulgence.
I've always thought Entwistle was great but I never heard such an outpouring of complements towards him until he was dead. Why'd they wait?
Dennis, I understand that your cover band, Katy Lied, features several vocalists. Methinks "Teahouse on the Tracks" would be a great vehicle for all of your players---vocalists and musicians---to have a turn at a solo. A cool end of second set closer. The song could go on and on at the end until everyone had a chance at a solo.
Hoops, is there going to be a major wing ding labor day weekend in Chicago? Please do tell. ATA is having a sale that ends soon.
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Zane
Date: Thurs, July 11, 2002, 11:26:18
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
Pete, Didn't know Entwistle was at Le Bar Bat? Is he a Dan Fan? You'd think he would be, most musicians are. Katy Lied playlist is:
Pretzel Logic
Green Earrings
Peg
Black Cow
Home at Last
My Old School
Bad Sneakers
What a Shame About Me
Tomorrow's Girls
Josie
Reelin'
FM
Sign in Stranger
Don't Take Me Alive
Kid Charlemegne
Jack of Speed
Cousin Dupree
Ruby Baby
Dr. Wu
Bodhisatva
Deacon Blues
Babylon Sisters
Black Friday
Third World Man (soon)
That's about all I can rattle off the top of my brain. We will be working up more. Please suggest your favorites and we'll do 'em!
Date: Thurs, July 11, 2002, 10:28:11
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
For those of you who think Bush and Cheney are so bad for former positions in big business, guess who's giving away contracts for his wife's corporate suitors:
http://www.nypost.com/commentary/52305.htm
Earl
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 21:50:33
Posted by: I hope I die , before I get old!
Pete! Give us some steely/who gossip. I'm all ears!
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 19:07:35
Posted by: Mister Sam, In the Listening Room
OK Dennis, Dave, etc. I hear ya'.
My Favorite Steely Dan keyboard (or keyboard-like pieces) in chronological order:
1. Fire in the Hole
2. Any Majore Dude
3. East St Louis Toodle-Oo
4. Charlie Freak
5. Dr. Wu
6. Your Gold Teeth II
7. Chain Lightning
8. Any World
9. Sign in Stranger
10. Aja
11. Black Cow
12. Glamour Profession
13. Two Against Nature (dashboard slappin' good syncopation!)
There, an even baker's dozen. And that was my short list!
What's in my car's CD changer:
1. Aja
2. John Coltrane, Giant Steps
3. Best of Elvis Costello
4. Joe Jackson, Laughter & Lust
5. Best of Cat Stevens
6. Prince, The Hits II (You sexy mutha fucka!!!)
Dennis: What's on the Katy Lied playlist at present?
Pete: Yes, please do tell. I've got a fire started and a bag of marshmallows ready to go!!!
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 18:54:09
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Mr. Sam: I think you see my point exactly. The natural oscillation in temperature and CO2 would engulf, enshroud, or negate our input. The last 25 years reveal no change... We need 40-50 years of satellite data to really look at true global trends - since they are the Gold Standard... This does not mean that (a) we should not deal with the urban heat island problem today which is real with data to support it or (b) procede to more of a hydrogen battery and evetually fusion sources all graphite and glitter - we should. A big probelm is dealing with the "carbohydrate economy" of the 3rd world...down go the trees...there goes numerous medicines undiscovered and a big CO2 sink...
The satellites identified the ozone hole, and seem to indicate a very slow recovery - so we can change when warrented, once the problem is correctly identified and not politicized...
The LONG TERM (millions of years) trend is for more cooling...come to think of it in a billion years it will be REALLY COLD as the sun implodes to a red dwarf or something (not enough mass it is thougt for expansion - gotta check on the dwarf color...)
Yes, Pete....Can we hear more about Enwistle??? Thanks...
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 18:39:18
Posted by: Dave,
Hi
I was also at the Boston danfest where Dinky talked his head off. He played some of the Dias stuff and I liked the guitar and instrumentals. I liked the vocalist but she sounded out of place on the Dias recordings. I could listen to Dias' music or her singing but not together. All good points presented J.K.
Good to hear from Pete Fogel. I remember the photo of Entwistle in Metal Leg. Would be interested in how and why the photo came about. I like discussing Bush because it IS in the same spirit as our boys. But really, how can some of you post on and on about Bush and then not express intrigue about some stories about John Entwistle, Le Bar Bat and maybe even Steely Dan? Wake up! I'm all ears, Pete.
That's not to say I don't participate in the Bush Whacking. How can Bush say "no more cooking the books" when his brother Jeb presided over the most sinister of accounting frauds, the 2000 Florida Presidential Elections.
Geborgter seykhl toyg nit.
Dave
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 18:01:54
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
Politics Politics. This has nothing to do with SD.
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 17:45:40
Posted by: Mister Sam, Be vaaaair-wy quiet. I'm hunnnting truth! Heh-heh-heh-heh-heh!
Hi Mu:
Your comments about Antartica were well-taken. The "evidence" from Antarctica is not as conclusive as some might wish us to believe. We've got 30 to 40 years of temperature data, but the weather cycles they seek to explain often have periods lasting several thousand years. As my fellow economists used to say, a single data point does NOT make a trend, and that, sadly, is what we're essentially dealing with here. It sounds like the analysis of those ice core samples make for a more promising avenue of research.
None of what you said disproves the existence of global warming, mind you, but the "evidence" about the melting of the polar ice caps isn't necessarily the smoking gun that environmentalists (including myself) have been looking for.
Thanks for the insight Mu.
Mister Sam
PS - I couldn't view the gif's that you sent last night, and I suspect that they might be infected with a virus. (I'm still investigating that possibility, though. The timing may have been coincidental.) Do you have a website link that I can follow to view those thermal satellite images?
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 17:17:58
Posted by: Mister Sam, Earl's Hoof in Mouth Shop
Earl: Actually, none of my family are FROM Delaware. My dad just decided to retire there because of the low taxes and (relatively) low cost of living. I'd probably go stir crazy livin' there myself, but the quiet and relaxed pace of small town life seems to agree with him nowadays. You'd never know that he spent the first 30 years of his life living in Queens and Nassau County (err, NYC & Long Island, respectively, for you tenderfoots out there.)
Also, Earl, (unsurprisingly) you missed the point on my commentary about corporate monoliths. It's not a question of blue collars v. white collars. [The nature of the work (ie, manual v. cerebral) may differ, but there is nothing inherent in this distinction that suggests one class of labor is more economically or socially valuable than the other.] Nor is it a question of whether capital markets are a vital feature of a free market economy. [They are.] Rather, the relevant issues are accountability, efficiency, equity, and integrity.
The Ivy League MBA-types who run these corporate behemoths are not owners (and, they don't act like owners.) A proprietor risks his own capital (ie, collateral and credit-rating), and has no vested interest in fraudulently inflating the short run bottom line. His/her aim is to maximize the long term value of the enterprise. This is consistent with the interests of long-term investors (as opposed to traders.)
Our friendly Fortune 500 corporate execs, however, operate on a different set of principles altogether. Corporate boards extend generous stock option packages to these high-level execs under the theory that it will motivate execs to think and act like owners. As we're seeing, however, way too many corp execs still myopically focus on quarterly and annual results, even when those actions harm the long run value and viability of the company. Worse, many engage in outright fraud to artificially run-up the stock price, so they can cash out for millions and then walk away from the disaster they've created. Sadly, there's a lot of smash & grab, "show me the money!", get rich quick attitudes amongst these yuppie scum bags, but very little "look what I've built over time through hard work and patience", entrepreneurial ethos among them. End result: woefully little accountability, equity, or integrity.
That leaves us with the issue of efficiency, and bigger ain't necessarily better. True, there are often economies of scale associated with large-scale production. With increased size, however, comes additional layers of bureaucracy and greater institutional inertia. Greater concentrations of economic power also have the unsavory side effects of stifling competition and slowing the rate of innovation. [The movie "Tucker: The Man and His Dream" makes this point very eloquently. BTW, it also has a great big band era soundtrack. I especially like Joe Jackson's "Rhythm Delivery" played over the end credits.]
Last, but not least, contemporary multinationals have no allegiance to any particular country; they are global free agents. This mistrust of the multinationals, incidentally, is what created that strange coalition of liberals, conservatives, and global conspiracy theorists in opposition to NAFTA. My main point, however, is that multinational corporations aren't American. They transcend national boundaries, and set up shop where ever they get the sweetest deal.
Thus, as I said before, our continued prosperity as a people and nation will rely on things like the quality of our workforce, our abundance of natural resources, our proximity to lucrative consumer markets, and our social/legal institutions (that promote cultural dynamism and entrepreneurial activity.)
RE: Enron. Sorry Earl, but if you're gonna keep leading with your chin, then I'm gonna have to keep jabbin' back WITH THE FACTS. Clinton wasn't "friends" with Ken Lay. The Bushes were (and probably still are.)
The evidence? Lay was the co-chairman of the 1992 Republican National Convention host committee in Houston. Enron's favorite political causes: pResident George W. Bush ($312,000 in campaign contributions from Enron officials for his 2 gubernatorial campaigns + $114,000 for his 2000 presidential campaign + $200,000 for his inaugural ball fund + loaners on the corporate fleet of jets to Bush during his campaigns), current Republican Texas Governor Rick Perry ($227,000 in Enron campaign donations since 1993; $138,000 of that total came directly from Ken Lay), Republican Texas Att. General John Cornyn ($188,000 in Enron campaign contributions. Incidentally, he's running to fill the Senate seat that Phil Gramm is vacating at the end of the year), and, last but not least, Sen. Phil Gramm ($97,350 in Enron campaign contributions + another $74K from Arthur Andersen).
These folks, unsurprisingly, appointed Enron personnel to key regulatory posts at the federal & state-level. They also championed and ushered the passage of the very same energy deregulation bills that enabled Enron to grow so fast (and, by extension, to crash so hard.) It's a Texas thing dude. As Associate Professor of Political Science Daron Shaw (from the U. of Texas) said, "political donations by large corporations, especially in the energy field, is a tradition in Texas."
Then there's the long list of top administration officials who either worked for Enron or sucked on its tits:
1. Att Gen Ashcroft (received $57,500 in campaign donations from Enron's PAC & execs for his failed 2000 Senate re-election bid)
2. Sec of the Army Thomas White (a Dubbaya appointee and former Enron VP; earned in excess of $100 million from sales of his Enron stock options)
3. Chief Bush Economic Advisor Lawrence Lindsey (Enron "consultant")
4. Chief Bush political strategist Karl Rove (owned $100K worth of Enron stock even as he conferred with Ken Lay about energy policy & Federal Energy Regulatory Commission nominees)
5. GOP chairman Marc Racicot (Enron lobbyist . . . Still!)
6. Commerce Secretary Don Evans (self-professed friend of Ken Lay. Lay phoned the Sec of Commerce requesting special administration assistance in the weeks leading up to Enron's collapse. To Evans credit, he declined to help, but what does it say that Lay was so bold as to call and ask in the first place?)
7. Wendy Gramm (wife of Sen Phil Gramm & Bush41's chair of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. As chair of the CFTC, she granted Enron exemptions to trade in energy derivatives, which, as the Washington Post reported, "later became Enron's most lucrative business." Then she promptly resigned from her government post to take a position on Enron's board of directors. She also served as a member of the Enron board's audit committee. Arthur Andersen's CEO testified before congress that his company warned Gramm's audit committee about "possible illegal acts within the company.")
8. VP Dick Cheney (former CEO of Halliburton Oil Services Co which is under investigation for fraudulent bookkeeping practices under Cheney's tenure. Just so you know, Cheney earned in excess of $20 million from his sales of Halliburton stock options. Also Lay & other Enron execs met six times with Cheney's energy policy task force in 2001. Cheney still refuses to release the minutes of those "privileged meetings.")
Face it already Earl, this administration is run by oil men, and they're knee deep in the Enron scandal. [Government of the oil men, by the oil men, and for the oil men.] To be sure, Enron hedged their bets a bit (ie, Democrats received something like 25% of Enron's political donations), but the lion's share of the money went to high-profile Republicans. In exchange, they secured:
1. positions in the administration and on major regulatory commissions
2. regulatory waivers that opened new lines of business for them
3. major tax breaks, and
4. major deregulation bills that opened the door for their transition from an energy producing firm to a commodities & futures trading firm that, in the end, produced little or nothing of value.
I'm sure you were outraged to hear that Hillary's $100,000 cattle futures payday may have been tainted Earl (though, nothing was ever proven.) So where, may I ask, is your outrage over a corporation and its Republican political cronies who defrauded the public of billions?
In short, it's not ignorant to suggest that Bush is implicated in the Enron affair Earl. Rather, you are ignorant for suggesting that we all just look the other way. Shame on you.
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 17:10:09
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Paul M: So NOW we take W's word? Bush read the Cliff notes to a report that came out a year earlier (notice how he backtracked when Cheney read him the report out loud...;-) ), which if ones reads in depth is most conflicting as I've described. If you or anyone want copies of the satellite vs. ground or ballon data, OR if you want the report to which Bush referred, then please e-mail me. I've got the news, and would be happy to pass it to ya... then you can make up your own mind...
remove NOSPAM as always...
form the cool part of the summer...
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 15:29:31
Posted by: Pete,
Hi Hoops!
Happy birthday! I was on vacation when I heard about the passing of John Entwistle. We had some fun times with John at Le Bar Bat. I'll write more later when I get a chance.
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 14:46:09
Posted by: jk, jk
my analysis of the denny situation is that dinky dawson somehow got linked up with this "music commune" in plymouth ma headed by some rich kid who doesn't have a clue and dink dragged denny dias (pronounced DIE-as) ("donald refused to say it correctly")in to it.
they took some of denny's tunes, recorded with pocaro, and recorded over them. they did their own tunes as well. i contacted them recently and they have "shelved that project."
denny should really do a solo cd with people who know what they are doing. the songs are good - they show a donald-like jazz and influence.
the best is circles of L-5 which kind of sounds like 5th dimension meets manhattan transfer. for some unknown reason denny's solo is buried in the mix??!!
I'D REALLY LIKE TO HEAR DENNY'S ORIGINAL DEMOS OR COMPLETED SONGS.
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 11:46:27
Posted by: hoops, in the kitchen
In my most Florence Hendersonly-voice: "Children. Have some Tang."
Steely Dan Marathon!? AWESOME!!!!! Thursday, July 18 7 am to 1 am ET.
Wendy and Norm, it is true, Dias came out with a project maybe two years ago. Denny has a woman on lead vocals. Have to dig up the rest of the details and that info is at my other place. I think jk has more specifics. Dinky Dawson played some tracks from it at the Boston Rag Danfest.
Speaking of the Boston Rag Danfest, some great .mov clips from that one are at http://www.dandom.com//idanvention/71500-boston and Dinky is at http://www.dandom.com//idanvention/71500-boston/dinky.mov
jk, yeah I dig your posts definitely--great launching points for dicussion, agreement and disagreement. Regarding the Scam discussion, I somehow remember not being especially in agreement with you on your criticisms of "The Royal Scam." And for me it was a highlight of the 2000 tour. If someone held a gun to my head and forced me to question the quality of "The Royal Scam," I'd say that it's ending still has potential for further development. But an amazingly great, acrid epic from the Dan, dripping with sarcasm.
The piano on "Katy Lied"? Yeah it is the best. Encore!
Gotta go. More Tang?
h
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 10:41:59
Posted by: Paul M., O Canada!
Earl: "Big business comes in because they are someone to risk $$$$ to make a profit" HUH????? What? Most big business made all their profit by exploiting little guys. And do they use their own money? No, they use someone else's credit or rely on tax breaks to bail them out. It would be like me funding a new business by maxing out a Visa or MasterCard. Only Big Business uses the equivalent of their Gramma's card!!! They mortgage little peoples' future and then little people have to bail them out. That's apparently the American way, circa 2002. Mock Canadians? You Americans mock yourself when you talk about Bush, suckers. It's like that column in Macintosh Design magazine where it features page after page of quotes bashing PCs----all quoted from the supposed PC lovers of PC World and PC Magazine!
Dr. Mu: Even Bush has acknowledged in the past month that global warming is a very real problem. BTW: Remember? Steely Dan had Greenpeace booths set up at the 96 shows.
JK: You may feel "Fall of 92" is done, shit, I'd argue it is done. But apparently the record companies or Fagen or Becker think a Steely Dan song must have Fagen on lead vocals. Why else would we be given the inferior version "Jack of Speed" without Becker's slammin' vocals.
Out of context? Well, maybe I remember wrong and I don't have your post handy, but then what did you mean by the Bette Midler or was it Ethel Merman remark?
Goodnight JK and see you next time on Weekend Update.
Big Oil=Big Earl=Big URL? LOL
Paul M.
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 09:13:15
Posted by: Earl, Delawaare
Norm: I agree that the song about Kyle's mom is a classic. "Blame Canada" was funny...that was sort what I was going for in my comments. You need a "Canadian Bacon" moment every once in a while.
The Farrelly Brothers did a movie about Steely Dan (probably are fans), so I wonder if Trey Parker and Matt Stone listen to the Dan? That would be neat if they were to characterize D+W in an episode, like they did that guy from the Cure.
Earl
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 09:06:23
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Favorite keys/piano parts:
1) Do It Again - a simple yet effective line
2) Melodica line in Hey Nineteen - not a true keyboard, but that's such a funky sounding keyboard-type wind instrument.
3) Piano vamp on Home At Last - I think it's one of the coolest sounding progressions on any SD song.
4) Glamour Profession - piano solo is a very nice interlude, kinda makes you forget about the troubled stories you hear in the rest of the song.
5) Fire In The Hole - a very aggressive piano solo...not sure if it's Don that's playing that, but it really fits the style of the song.
Earl
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 03:00:13
Posted by: norm, live from the franklin pangborn memorial barbecue
Wendy - I tried a net search using "Denny Dias" and "solo album," and nothing came up. Where did you hear about him doing one? I understand he lives in L.A., but I never hear of him playing anywhere, even as a sideman. I keep waiting, though.
Earl - well, maybe it's like that tune in the South Park movie, Blame Canada ("They're not even a real country anywaaaaay"). A great scene, second only to the 1950's-MGM-style production number with Cartman singing about Kyle's mom. I keep expecting Donald O'Connor and Mitzi Gaynor to leap out and join him. But that's whole 'nother story.
Which reminds me: MrSam, you forgot to include Terrence and Philip in that list of Great Canadians! And I had to look it up at http://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/decades/saturday_1960s.php , but it was neither Jay Ward nor Bob Clampett who did Tennessee Tuxedo, but Leonardo Productions, the same folks who brought us Underdog and Tooter The Turtle ("Help me, Mr. Wizarrrrrrd!") Yesterdayland.com rocks.
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 02:29:54
Posted by: Todd Richards - Cohost "No Static 2002", Cleveland, Ohio - Rock and Roll Capital
Just a short note to let you all know about "No Static 2002 - The Steely Dan Marathon" being broadcast from WBWC 88.3FM and online at www.wbwc.com (via real audio stream). Thursday July 18th 2002. 7am -1am est. Myself and co-host Tom Wang are very excited to feature 18 hours of SD music, complete with rare tracks, covers, alternate mixes and live material. Plus all the solo material, and the WORDS+Music shows for "Alive In America" and "2VN".
Please tune in if you can - for more info you can check out
www.runninglate.org/marathons/steelydan.html
Drop us an email request at wbwc@bw.edu, or phone in the day of the show at 440-826-2187
All the best to our fellow Steely Dan Fans -
Todd Richards, Co-host "No Static 2002".
Date: Wed, July 10, 2002, 02:27:38
Posted by: Todd Richards - Cohost No Static 2002, Cleveland Ohio - Rock And Roll Capital
Greetings all in the bluebook -
Just a short note to let you all know about "No Static 2002 - The Steely Dan Marathon" being broadcast from WBWC 88.3FM and online at www.wbwc.com (via real audio stream). Myself and co-host Tom Wang are very excited to feature 18 hours of SD music, complete with rare tracks, covers, alternate mixes and live material. Plus all the solo material, and the WORDS+Music shows for "Alive In America" and "2VN".
Please tune in if you can - for more info you can check out
www.runninglate.org/marathons/steelydan.html
Drop us an email request at wbwc@bw.edu, or phone in the day of the show at 440-826-2187
All the best to our fellow Steely Dan Fans -
Todd Richards, Co-host "No Static 2002".
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 22:48:48
Posted by: Whoa, Tejas
"the economy of Germany in the '30's appeared to do pretty well under Hitler" Man, I can't believe you said that...There's a signed copy of a Pat Buchanan book on its way...
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 22:34:31
Posted by: oleander, Boris Badenov-Bushdisser
You guys are SO entertaining! From guitars to global politics in the flick of a pick.
"Wet Side Story" and live "Jack" rule.
So what's the problem with dissing the president and his wriggling, vestigial, reflex-arc coterie? Or any previous one? It's the USA's great spectator sport. (Canadians are welcome too. Popcorn?)
shark--yo! buzz me when you get back.
Mr. Sam--yer on, I think. Ben Folds in Chapel Hill ROCKED. The best part was the massed audience choir on "Song for the Dumped."
Mu--Got a source for that quote, other than those paragons of accuracy and incisive reportage, the GB's of Dandom? Economy?--the economy of Germany in the '30's appeared to do pretty well under Hitler. And that guy in the song--he must have gotten "government control of business" BACKWARDS, eh?
Off to New Orleans to chase that popcorn with cafe and beignets.
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 22:32:17
Posted by: DrMµ, record wet and cool in Tejas
Mr. Sam: Take a look at the globe. Antarctica is surrounded by OCEAN. Even in the "Little Ice Age" in the middle of the last millenium, sailors dared NOT venture near the continent especially on the Cape of Good Horn side Part of the natural cycle, dude.
Remember the ICE AGE before they wrote it on the wall when jazz was REALLY cool...???
During ice ages our planet is cold, dry, and inhospitable-- supporting few forests but plenty of glaciers and deserts. Like a spread of collosal bulldozers, glaciers have scraped and pulverized vast stretches of Earth's surface and completely destroyed entire regional ecosystems not once, but several times. During Ice Ages winters were longer and more severe and ice sheets grew to tremendous size, accumulating to thicknesses that measured hundreds and even thousands of feet in depth. They moved slowly from higher elevations to lower-- driven by gravity and their tremendous weight. They left in their wake altered river courses, flattened landscapes, and along the margins of their farthest advance, great piles of glacial debris
Kinda like you're in some old cartoon...movie...
The earth even with 400, 20,000, and 100,000 year oscillations can be easily seen over time to have cooled dramatically over the past 60 million years, even after the meteor impact...One theory from an MIT graduate student linked this graduate cooling with the rise of the Himalayas, then she provided data using 2 Strontium isotopes from rock samples to back it up. In her model the rate of cooling shouild actually increase over the next million years...
Right now, we're in the middle of the coolest and rainiest weather ever in Texas in the summer...thus you see anectdotal evidence is worthless and simply merges an Amazing Randi point with the famous Tip O'Neill quote that all warming, like politics is local...
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 22:31:34
Posted by: Peg, stage right
Fave keyboard/piano solos:
1. Your Gold Teeth I -- I have tried to replicate it on my digital piano several times and still have not got it (yet). Fun, fun.
2. Aja, for sheer beauty (and simplicity!)
3. I Got The News -- it adds so much to song's texture
4. Intro to YGT II -- comes at you from somewhere else; fits oh so perfectly with the tune.
5. Fire In the Hole
Must also agree that I like it better when they use real pianos, but Fagen knows so much about what keyboards should sound like and can do. In 2VN, they used a real piano on the song "Two Against Nature" (at least it sounds like one) -- to a grand effect (pardon the pun). Plus I think they use a real piano in a couple other songs in 2Vn. So I don't think they've cast away the idea of not using real pianos. Yet I agree some of 2vn lacks the "organic" feeling of previous (i.e. 20 years previous!) tunes.
Speaking of who does solos, anybody know who does the guitar solo on "Everything You Did?" It's not been mentioned in these parts yet, but I've always thought it was dern good.
"Turn up the Eagles, the Record Moguls are listening."
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 22:22:28
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Mr. Sam: Cool to hear you have family from Delaware. I'm sorry for them, but that's OK. I am a transplant (although I kinda wish I wasn't transplanted here LOL).
I agree with you somewhat about who really makes the difference in this country. The bluecollars are the ones that do the important work. My contention is that you need to have someone to risk the $$$ to be able to make a profit, and that's where big business comes in. I definitely think these morally-deficient CEO's who inflated #'s to pad their pockets should be sent away for a very long time. But to contend that this is Bush's fault is pretty ignorant. He was friends with Ken Lay, but so wasn't Clinton.
Norm: Yeah, I just hadn't heard many Canada slams in a while. They're kinda like a younger brother...it's fun to beat the crap out of them from time to time even though you don't mean anything by it.
Earl
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 21:26:17
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California
Jumping in after vacation with some questions/comments on previous threads:
- Some folks seem to know exactly who did which solos on which SD recordings -- Is there a list available somethere for we uninformed types?
- I don't think I can name a solo that isn't great. That's one of the things that make (nearly) all SD songs a treat to listen to over and over again. Can only conclude that W & D (+ Gary Katz?) knew how to pick and choose and all these people were able to shine at the right moment.
- How about keyboard solos? Personal faves that come to mind:
1) Glamour Profession - slides and grooves like powder on a mirror
2) I Got the News - whimsy, funk, charm, chops (Victor Feldman, right?)
3) My Old School
4) Sign in Stranger
- Noting that these are all actual PIANO solos (or sound that way), I'd put in a strong vote for SD to include more accoustic instruments in their arrangements. To me, both Kamakiriad and 2VN sound a little souless without that "organic" element (if that makes sense). [11ToW not so much. And even Depeche Mode got earthy-sounding with the acoustic guitar in "Dream On."]
- The classic Rocky and Bullwinkle story line was about the struggle between the USA (Moose-and-Squirrel) and Pottsylvania (Boris, Natasha, Mr. Big, etc.) for control of the world supply of Upsydaisium -- the only element that floats in the air!
- The Jay Ward crew I think shared with Steely Dan an approach to creating things that are serious and hilarious at the same time. Some how there's a Comp Lit term paper in this ...
- What DID happen to Gary Katz? (Seriously, I've been wondering...!)
- I give Skunk Baxter credit for recommending Michael McDonald to the Doobie Brothers and giving him a perfect venue to make some great songs. Unfortunately without Patrick Simmons to fight with it seems Michael's creative fire did not burn as brightly.
I have nothing to say on terrorism or politics. I came for the music (and cartoons!).
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 21:18:23
Posted by: Wendy Liu,
All this talk of Bush. I only fear that he will get in again in 2004. And down in Fla. Reno seems not to be doing well, yet there is an inde who could do better. Fingers crossed.
I understand that Denny Dias has a solo album out. Any info?
Wasn't Jeff Baxter in the band, Sneaker, that covered "Don't Let Me In" about 20 years ago? I liked it.
My theory on Jeff Baxter is that he became impotent. With that, the attraction of groupies went away so he turned his attention from rock and roll to the largest and most powerful of phallic symbols, nuclear missiles.
See ya!
Wendy
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 20:21:19
Posted by: Just thought of this,
You ever notice that some people pronounce the word "oil" as "Earl"......THINK ABOUT IT!
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 20:20:31
Posted by: jk, jk
paul - you ignorant slut. i thought you folks were going to curtail the personal attacks and politics. be that as it may, i must defend my honor.
1. i never called for any further examination of 92 by steely dan. it is perfect as it is.
2. your quote about midler is way out of context. and had NOTHING to do with scam.
3. folks - listen to scam with fresh ears. it just never gets off the ground. and their attempt at a sincere, caring, social commentary is awkward. charlie freak is a much better peek behind the mask of the hipster jokers. even little kawai works better on that point. and "blind" is brilliant!!! (PS - PAUL - PLEASE STOP REELING ON MY ACCOUNT - DON'T WANT YOU TO GET ANY DIZZZIER!)
4. what - get in my face about trying to get more dan music? if you recall it was partly through my efforts that we got the box set released. not exactly what we asked for but "movies" is well worth it. hey if you don't want to hear more dan tunes, just keep listening to your journey 8-tracks. you never would even have had the pleasure to hear 92 if someone hadn't gone through the trouble to tape it, record it and get it out there!
5. my tastes are very consistant. i like songs that are interesting musically and lyrically. on that note wetside is only 1/2 of a good song - the lyric suck for air. (not u i no paul)
so really paulie your post was similar to your brother john mcglauchlin's fusion tunes - you just wanted to hear the sound of your own riffing. happy now?
trying to stay positive on this blue boat is like b spears trying to sing on key. imposible. but hoops is one of the great humans on this planet and he keeps begging me to post. happy bday j. imagine, there are other boards on the net where the artists and musicians actually weigh in once in a while!!! run for your lives don and walt.
ps cool mr sam - damn if you don't have manassas 96 from your friendly boot dealer - kill to get it. much better than aia. (wetside appears there)
of course nasa is going to say that there is no global warming. there is a distinkt possiblity that their launches poke holes in the atmosphere.
hey everyone is posting web addresses. here is mine : http://www.foodstyles.com/Desserts/chocolate_pate_with_pistachio_cr.htm
(haven't tryed it yeyt)
jk
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 20:14:52
Posted by: Environmental Fact:,
A happy side effect of global warming is the end of Cool jaz. See ya kenny gee.
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 20:05:11
Posted by: Special Announcement,
This just in. The music once known as "Jass" and then as "Jazz" and most recently as "Ken Burns Jazz" is now simply known as "Ken Burns." All record stores and libraries should rename the "Jazz" section "Ken Burns" and fortwith such CDs should say on the back, "File under Ken Burns" Oh. And you can only get these at GM dealerships.
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 20:04:32
Posted by: Mister Sam, Sweltering in the 100 degree heat
Doc: If there is "significant cooling in Antarctica," then why do I keep hearing about "Rhode Island-sized" and "Delaware-sized" pieces of the continental ice shelf breaking off down there?
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 20:00:18
Posted by: I wanna,
I WANNA LOTS OF REAL PIANO ON THE NEXT STEELY DAN ALBUM.
Isn't the sitar on Bad Sneakers lifted from the Stylistics' You Make Me Feel Brand Gnu?
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 19:59:12
Posted by: W1P, Tarzana
Pretzel Logic on Thursday anyone?
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 19:56:46
Posted by: John Coltrane, From the Grave
"Jazz is not dead; it just smells funny!"
I overheard FZ saying that at a welcoming party for Ray Brown the other night, and just thought I'd pass it along to you good citizens of planet earth.
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 19:54:46
Posted by: DrMµ,
"NYC No More" - I'm 99% certain that's Walter
and Larry Carlton on "Little Ones". - that's a great solo - sounds like Carlton
..
Did Larry play the solo on "Everything You Did"? Does sound like Carlton, but I've leaned to Walter more lately. It's the clipped high notes and more bluesy feel...
On global warming, NASA and NOAA data disagree with the UN conclusions:
http://wwwghcc.msfc.nasa.gov/MSU/hl_measuretemp.htm
The problem is that the mixed atmosphere data detected by balloons and satellites doesn't match the surface data. The satellite and balloon data reveal NO MEAN CHANGE
A new satellite will provide thorough ocean temp. analysis is now in orbit and will reveal a fuller answer since water holds orders of magnitude more thermal energy than air...
There is warming at the surface level in the northern hemisphere while the southern hemisphere is cooling. Much of the norther hemisphere warming is due to the "urban heat island" effect and some warming in Siberia (Antarctica is now undergoing a significant cooling)...The cause of the urban heat island is concrete and city design altering the local atmosphere close to where it's measured...most temp data comes from airports which are now larger, closer to cities, and are rife with heat-generating machines: jets!!!...the politicization of this issue and other scientific issure have shrouded the obvious. More trees, bushes, grass, etc and better planning of building materials, shape, and structure are needed. in short this type of data misinterpretation that lead us to global warming would be ridiculed in any other area of science...
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 19:51:48
Posted by: Ronald McDonald Fagen, The PlayPlace
Hey you know what mortifies me?????? The idea of a JASS MUSEUM. I mean Jazz!? A MUSEUM!??? JAZZ=Live Musuem=DEAD! Well, if you must, be sure to put a McDonald's in the basement. The Happy Meals could come with plastic trumpets and saxes (not for children under 3)..
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 19:47:13
Posted by: Michael Jackson Brecker,
Having had some of his records out on impulse! should help people get the idea that Brecker is indeed following in Coltranes' footsteps as the next Jass Messiah. And I think he finally lost that EWI thing (An EWI is too white, if you ask me). But ultimately, the acceptance of Michael Brecker as the new Jass Messiah depends on whether he is officially annointed as such by Ken Burns. And that means "Ken Burns JAZZ" will have to be revised to say that Jass did not die in the 1970s. And that would ruin Burns' thesis that Jazz was invented by Louis Armstrong who was exploited by Michael Brecker's white ancestors. And we all know that Ken Burns was clearly not a white guy attempting to exploit blacks and their music to make himself look holier than Thou and more intellectual than Thou. Where's the Michael Jackson and Al Sharpton's Jass Special?
Speaking of Brecker losing his EWI, why can't Fagen lose his Rhodes or whatever electric thing he's been playing?? Katy Lied is such a fucking brilliant sounding album because of those grand pianos. Real piano on the next one, baby! DIG IT!
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 19:26:48
Posted by: And then there's the hair,
Al Sharpton! Don King? Howdafuk can you keep'em straight? I can't!
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 19:15:55
Posted by: poops,
Best signal to know when to leave a party: Al Sharpton arrives.
P
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 19:08:30
Posted by: If a Skunk is Black and White, What color is a Skunk Baxter?
I think it's great that a white entertainer like Michael Jackson is sticking up for black entertainers. Maybe Michael even remembers what it was like to be one.
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 19:08:19
Posted by: Mister Sam, The Yellow Brick Road (Skunks & Missiles & Sluts, Oh My!)
Hoops: Thanks for lending a little clarity to the Skunk thread. Didn't want to suck anymore oxygen out of the room than I already had, but you took the words right out of my mouth. A parting of the ways was inevitable, but it probably had very little to do with whether Skunk was talented or not. [Incidentally, Dennis, politics aside, Skunk was, and probably still is, an immensely talented guitarist. Refresh your perspective with another listen to the outro on "My Old School", and then tell me what you think.] Hoops, as you and John implied, stylistically, W+D relished the freedom to hire the best man for the job on any given tune (or even write tunes with specific soloists in mind), and Skunk's range &musical interests were, admittedly, a bit limited for their needs. Enough said on that.
Norm: Nice point about the futility of wasting too many resources on a missile defense shield. Contrary to Bush43's claims, 9/11 proved once and for all that terrorism poses the real threat to our national security, not some tinhorn dictator with a small, sophisticated nuclear missile system and a death wish. If we're gonna insist on building this pink elephant, though, perhaps it's time to go see Mr. Whoopie! [BTW, Norm, did Bob Clampett &/or Jay Ward perchance have a hand in the making of Tennessee Tuxedo, too?]
John: Wetside Story. Wow, I'd completely forgotten about that one. Heard it during the 96 tour, but not since. Anybody round here know if there's a bootleg of it floating around somewhere?
Earl: You ignorant slut! Why must you (like Bush Light) insist on alienating our friends & allies around the globe? Nothing of value in Canada? Who you jivin' with that Cosmic Debris? How about Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, Rush, Donald Sutherland, Dan Aykroyd, Gilda Radner, SCTV, John Candy, Mike Myers, Phil Hartman, Jim Carrey, Martin Short, Michael J. Fox, Raymond Burr, James Cameron, Eugene Levy, Rich Little, Howie Mandel, Lorne Michaels, Rick Moranis, Dave Thomas, Meg Tilly, and Peter Jennings for starters? Then there's basketball, biodegradable plastic, the cardiac intensive care unit, the electron microscope, the electric wheelchair, gingerale, IMAX, insulin, the Java programming language, lacrosse, the lightbulb, newsprint, the pacemaker, the paint roller, rollerskates, the snowblower, the snowmobile, Superman, the telephone, the washing machine, and the zipper. There's also Toronto (a wonderful role model for large urban centers everywhere) and a health care system that manages to cover everybody while maintaining quality and affordability. Oh yeah, and their Gold Medal hockey team wasn't too shabby either. So, why don't you wake up and smell what you're shoveling Earl! [Also, stop snivelling about name calling and being attacked. I, personally, haven't gone beyond calling your ideas into question. (That is, with the lone exception of the "ignorant slut" comment above, and that, of course, was a comedic nod to Canadian Dan Aykroyd.)]
Oh yeah, and Earl, while I'm on the subject, sadly, I must conclude, you don't know shit about business either (you can add that to list of other things you don't know much about: politics, baseball, economics, manners, humility, diplomacy, etc.) It's not the MULTINATIONAL CORPORATE GIANTS that keep this country on top; it's the hard work of it's citizenry, a lot of good fortune (eg, plentiful resources, two oceans as buffers from potential enemies, and friendly neighbors like Canada & Mexico), the freedoms we enjoy (see Bill of Rights), our progressive immigration policies that help us continually reinvigorate our culture, respect for property rights, and our vibrant small business community. So-called "big business" is a manifestation of our nation's success (and a not altogether welcome one, at that), not the cause of it. Corporate governance suffers from many of the same problems as other kinds of bureaucracy. And, as the recent wave of accounting scandals reveal, throwing absurd amounts of stock options at corporate executives DOES NOT solve the basic problem of corportate governance (ie, the separation of ownership and control.)
PS - Earl, you forgot to mention KAOS International ("a Delaware Corporation") and my dad (resident of Smyrna) when enumerating the many wonderful attractions in Delaware that one could write songs about.
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 19:07:50
Posted by: poops,
This just in from Oil War II
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0109-06.htm
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 19:04:54
Posted by: Hoops McKanzie, View Guddashaykette, Yukon
In fact, the Dan mention my hometown, View Guddashaykette, (Yukon Territory, Canada) in Babylon Sisters. And of course, we all remember when the lovely sang, "View Guddashaykette, baby, View Guddashaykette," the crowd went WILD! In fairness, I bet the Dan's vocal babes bellowing "Go to Los Wages" would garner even more fan enthusiasm.
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 19:02:09
Posted by: kung pow,
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2002-06/19/content_448113.htm
don't forget bush 1 throw e up e on asians. he bad man too. maybe he cghange name to busheee.
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 18:57:21
Posted by: Poops, poops
http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_debacle.html
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 18:52:28
Posted by: Poops, Poop
Reverse racism in jazz.
I'm thinking if m brecker were black he would have been hailed as the new jass messiah.
Poops
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 18:48:21
Posted by: poops don la can,
where is the outrage. republicans are killing us.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/01/07/25_crimes.html
since when do we allow canadians on this board.
poops
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 18:24:28
Posted by: norm,
Earl - glad you took what I said in the spirit in which it was intended - i.e., not to be mean or nuthin'.
As for not having much to write about, there's a Lennon interview where the guy commented on his "childhood" songs like Strawberry Fields, and how his hometown must have been such a colorful place to inspire him so much. Lennon replied that anywhere can serve as an inspiration - "Sure, why not, everywhere is somewhere, right?" - and Liverpool itself wasn't the most inspiring place in the '50s anyway, except maybe to get out of.
D+W may refer to a lot of cities in their songs, but I think half the time they're just nice words to fit the flow. And as was pointed out in Brian Sweet's book, they would usually stick with what was familiar, hence all the New York and L.A. references.
Wasn't there something in the book about them calling a friend who was a sports fan to ask him for the name of a winning team, which is where the Alabama/Crimson Tide thing came in? Could have just as easily been California, Colorado or Carolina if their team had the right nickname. They probably would have drawn the line at Oklahoma, though, would have sounded a little clumsy...
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 17:36:01
Posted by: No Bull,
AP has a photo of this year's injured at the annual Running of the Bulls. Fortunately, Walter Becker was not one of the injured this year.
Meanwhile, AP has a wire from Naperville, Illinois where Foreigner was robbed of a $6,000 guitar immediately at the end of their performance at last week's Ribfest. They caught the guy and it came down to the police tugging on one end of the guitar and the thief on the other. No, the thief wasn't Dennis and, no, they are not renaming it "Robfest" as a result of the attempted theft. Ha. Ha.
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 17:27:09
Posted by: shark de ville, the misty beach
In Skunk's Defense:
Skunk's in defense now, which boggles the mind, but he still rocks out. He was featured heavily on the History of Rock series which aired on VH1, expounding on all things rock, and demonstrating different styles on the guitar.
i think he showed up at the last Carl Wilson cancer benefit, and rocked out for awhile.
And I've never sensed any rift between Skunk and D/W. They describe that period as "energetic", and Baxter's playing is probably why.
I've heard Donald describe the Dan as "guys who dug Zappa, but also liked the Byrds." Jeff could play the real dirty "skunk" guitar, as well as the clean country-style picking. There's a live version of Barrytown (Irvine '74) and his B-bender playing is great.
Not to mention his great steel guitar playing. I play pedal steel too, so of course I love the sound of it. I realize it's not everyone's cup of meat, but you gotta admit it sounds pretty sublime on "Razor Boy", and how about the mock strings on "Charlie Freak"?
His solos on "My Old School", "Rikki", and "Bodhisattva" are legendary. No one else would have come up with the stuff he played, and no one can really duplicate some of it.
And the contrast between Skunk and Dias was so great.
That's why my top 3 is
1. Dias
2. Skunk
3. Becker
I like everything the other guys did too. Especially Elliot Randall and Jay Graydon.
Didn't Walter say he never liked the solo on "Chain Lightning"? I wonder why?
Trying to match the guitarists on 'Katy Lied' to their solos...
Walter on songs 1-2, Dean Parks on "Rose Darlin", Denny on "YGTII", Ricky on "CL"...
I think it's Elliot Randall on "NYC No More" and Larry Carlton on "Little Ones"...
Did Larry play the solo on "Everything You Did"??? I think that's my favorite thing he did.
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 16:54:37
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
John: Never attended any of the 90's or 2K tours. I wish that I had, but I was finishing out college, and later trying to make ends meet. I can't wait for the next one though.
I've said enough about politics. Sorry for the diss earlier Paul.
Great for Joni Mitchell. I think there are a number of artists that are embarrassed to be a part of the music industry. Especially after Michael Jackson vented at the head of Sony for being racist. I guess Jackson forgot that Mottola was married to Mariah Carey at one time. When will people realize that Michael Jackson needs help?
Norm: There really is nothing in Delaware, except an Air Force base, a bunch of credit card companies, and Dupont. Not a whole lot to write a song about.
Earl
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 16:26:22
Posted by: norm, what am I still doing in the house? it's nice outside!
John - that Kirwood Derby thing was an ongoing plot that lasted several episodes. That show was the same for me as a kid: I didn't get most of the references then, but they all make sense now. Same with Beany & Cecil. Bob Clampett was a genius.
I haven't really kept up with anything Jeff Baxter has been saying, but I'd be interested in his theory on how Star Wars will help with something like germ warfare, which is probably a bigger threat than "nyoo-cyoo-lurr" attacks. And in case it seems like I'm doing the "dissing the Republicans, so therefore I must be a Democrat" thing - well, the governor of California has a few questions to answer about his ties to Enron, the so-called "energy crisis," etc. I find it pretty hard to side with any of them. Ralph "Nadir"? Let's not even get started. (Fred Grandy in 2004 - "Gopher It, America!")
Dennis - that's funny. There was a sketch on SCTV (back to that Canada thing again) where they did a commercial for a record called "Curly Sings The Classics" - basically, a capella versions of Curly of the Three Stooges singing stuff like Ride of the Valkyrie, but using his "la-da-da-DLEEE-dah" bit. I always Giant Steps should have been one of those.
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 16:11:24
Posted by: John, Erie, PA
Earl, I'm all for refuting those who diss Bush and even using sarcasm as a approach. However, your responses rarely, if ever, address all the faulty accusations against Bush. In your post, you nary hint that all your crude insults are nothing more than serious talk, especially given your previous posts. Besides that, do you write about Steely Dan anymore, Earl??? What's your favorite Dan tune from the 90's tour that hasn't seen the light of day? How about that?
Don't know of any Mexicans to whom the Dan have covered in tribute. However, a Canadian Steely Dan has paid tribute to, Joni Mitchell, was just bestowed an award that is sort of like Knighthood in the arts.
From jonimitchell.com:
'The Order of Canada is the latest honor to be added to Joni's ever-lengthening list of awards, with a July 4 announcement by Governor General Adrienne Clarkson reported by the CBC. Established in 1967, Canada's highest award for lifetime achievement is given out at three levels; Joni was appointed to the highest one, the Companion level. This year, four Companion level awards were announced, along with 28 Officer level appointments and 65 Member level appointments, all made on the recommendation of an advisory council headed by the Chief Justice of Canada.'
I'll bet her response was, "Thank you. I'm so embarrassed to be part of the music industry." She's always saying that.
I loved Rock and Bullwinkle but must admit not remembering the episode you speak of. I never caught all the witty political commentary in their shows when I watched as a kid. Watching the same shows today is like a whole new experience, even if I disagree with their liberal statements.
Actually, Norm, Skunk got into the whole defense and Star Wars thing because certain defense systems use the same technology as cutting edge sound reproduction equipment. Cool shit. And yeah, Jeff knows his stuff.
c-ya.
John
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 16:08:54
Posted by: dennis, chicago
Charlie Parker was a master of the saxophone, John Coltrane, Michael Brecker, Bumpus etc. Garth Hudson of the Band? I'd sure like to hear HIM play Giant Steps. Hey everybody, there's a SHIT CLOUD coming, run for your lives!
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 15:43:27
Posted by: norm, what rhymes with Los Angeles? (Vangelis? headupmyess? hmmmmmm....)
Earl - "nothing of value"? "head up your ass"? Such a nice, tolerant, God-fearing, churchgoing man. Jeez Louise. I'm glad I stopped going to church back in the '70s. At least when I'm feeling ornery, I don't have "God" to hide behind.
So....Steely Dan mentions Mexico in a couple of songs, but not Canada. Maybe it just makes for an easier rhyme. But there again, Delaware is an easy rhyme too, and I don't recall them using that either, so there goes THAT theory out the window. Either way, I wouldn't read too much into any of it. In the words of John Prine, your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore.
"Drizzle, drazzle, drozzle, drome,
time for this one to come home..."
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 15:29:55
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
John: I guess that sarcasm and humor are only acceptable on this board when it's coming from certain people. VOR: I agree that the head up the rear comment is out of line, and I apologize for that.
I guess I have to just sit here with my mouth shut and never refute anything bad that's written about Bush et. al. If I argue points, then people start calling me names. If I jokingly start calling people names, then everyone starts pulling the holier than thou trick.
I shouldn't have been so vulgar about Paul, so I am sorry about that.
Earl
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 14:12:59
Posted by: John,
I also have to vote for Fall of 92 and Wetside Story. Both of those are the best. Maybe they will turn up in a few years like Caves of Altimira did after five Steely Dan albums.
The story of the Band is really sad. Read Helm's book, This Wheel's on Fire. Robertson is a legend in his own mind. Too bad too many believe him.
Skunk was one phase of Steely Dan. But that is now history. Long time ago.
Earl, I've decided that you are a Dem who posts as a Republican to make us real Republicans look like jack asses.
John
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 13:33:14
Posted by: voice of reason, usa
earl, maybe paul has his head up his ass or maybe not. but why do you have to respond by insulting an entire country rather than keeping it to criticisms of paul's opinions? surely there are some canadians who share your views. why insult them? instead it makes you look pretty bad. i don't think christians behave that way.
this message brought to you by the
v.o.r.
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 13:23:48
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Paul, is that you? I wasn't sure; I never saw someone bend over backwards far enough to have their head THAT far up their ass. At least Canada doesn't have to worry about the wildfires causing any damage, since THERE'S NOTHING OF ANY WORTH IN CANADA TO LOSE! I guess you guys have yet to realize that big business is what makes money for a country. That's pretty obvious since I can get a pocketful of bills up there in Canada for a quarter. And you wonder why your beloved pro hockey teams are going in the crapper.
At least D+W take the time to mention Mexico in a couple of their songs. I can't think of a single reference to our northern neighbor in a SD song. Must be a real significant country, eh?
Earl
Date: Tues, July 09, 2002, 12:49:15
Posted by: Paul M., Toronto
Long time no see everyone.
Today's "Globe and Mail" (kinda like our version of "New York Times" or "Washington Post") has an interview with The Band's Garth Hudson, the quiet one. Although he is a Canadian, he has relocated to Woodstock. The interviewer compares Hudson's speaking to that of William Burroughs, but much slower with a lot of pauses. I would expect he hangs out with the Fagen's stepdaughter Amy Helm and her dad, Band member Levon Helm. Hudson just turned 65 and is happy to report that in the past couple years his playing has taken a huge leap. Very inspiring to hear about. But then he expains his inspiration is in part from Eastern European accordianists! (!) Hudson is also a master of the saxophone.
Interview also briefly mentions how Robbie Robertson convinced him, Levon Helm and the other Band members to sign away the rights and profits to "The Last Waltz" to none other than, surprise, Robbie Robertson. No wonder RR is a henchman/A & R guy for Capitol today. AS the article puts it, "While acknowledged Band-leader Robbie Robertson has risen to the top boardrooms of the music business on his own myth, Hudson is the starkest of contrasts."
JK. Yeah, I dig "Fall of '92" But I'm still reeling from a year ago when you claimed that the title track of "The Royal Scam" was a "failure" that "plods" along. "Hello? Bette Midler in the house" is what I remember you saying. Your tastes are so inconsistent. Lookee here JK, "Fall" is a great rough cut, but it will probably never be developed furher, if for no other reason than because Becker/Fagen have moved on and would start fresh. Maybe you can get Kenny Vance to prod them to move on a final release of "Fall of 02" Everyone send E-mail.
Here in Canada, we see W. as the self-serving, corporate puppet he is. The oil companies have been installed as your Prez. Bull in a china shoppe diplomacy. A loose cannon. Don't tell me this guy wasn't in bed with Enron. From the outside looking in, we all see major, major cover-up. You Americans are fools to take Clinton to task for covering up about a blow job and then to let Bush slide on so many relatively gargantuan issues that have hurt so many. How can you people grease the skids for this snake oil sales man in the name of your flag and Jesus? Speaking of Jesus, he hangs with satan in disguise, Billy Graham, to show how self-righteous he supposedly is. If Bush's cocaine experiences are so much in the past and if he's so honest today, why can't he be direct and just say yes or no? Character? What character? WWIII thanks to Bush and his henchmen serving their own needs while wrapping themselves in their self-righteousness. Today he's going after the former Worldcom head, but he who casts the first stone...
Paul MacLauchlin
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 22:43:24
Posted by: norm, driving down Edward Everett Horton Lane
(yes, there is such a street in L.A.)
MS: Thanks for the Paulsen quote. He was quite the visionary. If only we'd listened to him. O, when will we ever learn?
Speaking of Rocky and Bullwinkle: remember when they were searching for the Kirwood Derby, and Jay Ward was threatened with a lawsuit from Durwood Kirby, the second banana on Candid Camera? Ward invited him to do it, and even offered to pay his attorneys if he went through with it!
re: Baxter - Star Wars? Hoo boy...
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 22:00:00
Posted by: hoops, Chicago
Hola!
Been awaythanks for the B-day greets Ed, O., R (aka C), µ, W. MS, g, p, HM, w, and all the rest, and of course, MF.
"Fall of '92?" Never quite sure why it wasn't on Becker or SD's albums. Was it that it seemed dated circa the Clinton era? Was it like so many SD ditties in progress that aren't sold by the Dan before it's time? Will it surface on the next one? Can you imagine Donald singing " slinging pussy " or " George Bush and all those Nazis down in Washington, D.C."? We all know I wish Walter did some vocals on the last SD album; but apparently Donald has to do all the SD vocals: does this mean the lyrics will get downered down a touch for Donald to sing?
[ I was listening to Walter's "Jack of Speed" and it swings skeeedeleee-bop-boppin' wit da Jacqua Speeedt. Would love to hear Van Morrison do Walter's "Jacques de la Velocitie" with skat thrown in. ]
Maybe "Fall of '92" is one of those the great SD songs that slips through the cracks 'cos something never quite works or it's too far back. Maybe it's the song fans won't let die then again that distinction goes to "The Second Arrangement," and that will never come out on an official Dan album as much as we cry for it.
SD pals with Skunk or not? Seems to me comes down to what I hear from time to time in SD interviews about the deep, dark 70s: After SD came off the road in July 1974, Becker and Fagen decided they wanted to concentrate on writing and recording since they couldn't both tour and write/record at their peak at the same time. The road, especially under circumstances then, was a huge drain. Meanwhile, the other guys wanted to tour more and enjoy all the "perks" of touring in a rock and roll band (I think they meant groupies and beer). And so that is how Jeff went over the Doobs. But beyond that, I would wager that they are not especially fond of Jeff's more recent political stances, to say the least. Furthermore, you ever hear interviews with Baxter these days? The one's I've seen (thinking of one in the NY Times magazine for one) have him all serious about missile defense. When asked about his playing, his response is along the lines, "You fool! Will music defend us? Let us talk Star Wars defense system." He's no fun. So, methinks Jeff is to Donald and Walter like someone I used to get high with in college who now is a religious right preacher.
Pat Paulsen and the Smother's Brothers, the best. How about that? A top ten show get's cancelled because it's too controversial. The magic was gone when they came back in '75. The next thing to push the envelope after the Smothers Brothers, was Norman Lear and his stable of shows and then Saturday Night Live. Conan O'Brien? Too many long boring, flat jokes between the rare good ones. Kilbourne? Even though it's an act, the "self-absorption is funny" routine is way old. He's sucked the comedic tit of self-satisfaction dry. He sucks.
Yes, indeed to Pevar, Sean and jk.
Dennis, et al. got the message today, and wish I coulda been there last week. Yeah Katy Lied needs to work kinks, there are those magic moments . Not bad for six months and five gigs. My only outright critism from this big KL supporter is that Bob needs to lose that line in the web demo where it's implied KL is as good as the Real Thing.
'nuff for now
h
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 21:59:51
Posted by: Peg, a.k.a. 3rd career
Happy
Birthday
Hoops
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 21:52:40
Posted by: HeyMike, chicago
Razor is right KL was great in Naperville. A shortened set, good crowd and inspired performance.
I wish this political discussion would go away. ----But I'll chime in!
A few points that can not be overlooked in my view...( gas on the fire I guess)
Clinton was offered Bin Laden TWICE. Once has been confirmed during the time of the Lowinski affair. Just for Cash, for the intelligance community buit by George H.W. and torn down by Clinton. If Gore had been elected president ( and if the people that know him best[Tenn.} didnt want him why should we?)make no mistake , there would be NO war on terrorism, NONE. afghanistan would still be run by the Taliban. We would be listening to poofy haired ivy league 30 somethings running the nations defense. Bush's lifestyle and work ethic (his workout routine and diet, abstinence from alcohol) likely matches no president before him. Anyone who thinks Bush had anything to do with Anderson, Enron, Worldcom...Hmmm Global Crossing?? (Daschels wife is the DC lobbyist!) or thinks Clinton or Gore had anything to do with the "go go 90's" should turn in their voter card. This nations economy is too vast, too dynamic, too global and too diverse for any one man or administration to have much of an effect during a 4 year stint.
Oh yeah...Happy B-day hoopster, thanks for all you do!
I have to turn up The Royal Scam now!
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 18:04:48
Posted by: gypsyqueeninfairytale,
HAPPY BIRTHDAY HOOPS!!!!!
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 17:01:15
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
I take back everything I said about Skunk Baxter. I love him.
Dennis
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 15:53:17
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas - drying out
Mr. Sam: It's not the BJ that disturbed me and would love to let that errr drop...the moral or that part of the story is to have the affair with Miss America and the one night stand with the X-sized intern...not the other way around...
jk: The live version and arrangments to Fall'92 are darn good...can't say the demo and the tune itself are up to SD standards with or without the line...we'll agree to disagree. I would have really dug Medical Science though on the American version of 11 ToW (available on japanese 11 ToW only)...
Ole: I didn't see any changes (still Pump it up)...did I miss a newsletter (again)?
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 15:51:28
Posted by: Mister Sam, Show me the funny!
Dave: Who said Conan O'Brien isn't funny? Here's a snippet from an August 2001 monologue: "President Bush is taking a working-vacation at his ranch in Texas, and he said he hopes to spend most of his time jogging, golfing, and fishing. Then, the president said, he'll be back in Washington in September where he plans to spend most of his time jogging, golfing, and fishing."
In another whimsical aside about easy Republican targets, I was cruising the book section of Ollie's Bargain Mart late last week when I found Dan Quayle's 1999 book "Worth Fighting For." The publisher's suggested retail price was $18.99, but, apparently, most folks didn't think the book was "worth paying for" because Ollie's had them priced to move at 99 cents a piece. Better hurry though folks, 'cause they've only got 16 copies left! [Hmmm? Do you suppose he used a spell checker before he sent the manuscript to press? Also, what are the odds that Marilyn wrote the manuscript for him? It's no secret who the smart one is in that household.]
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 15:47:17
Posted by: Mister Sam, At the Fact-Checking Desk
Earl: Congratulations. You got me. You are absolutely right that Dubbaya was no longer on vacation on 9/11. He was, in fact, attending a PHOTO OPP at an elementary school in Sarasota, FL when he received the news about the WTC and the Pentagon. [I must be getting old folks. How could I forget that shit-eating, deer-in-the-headlights look in Dubbaya's eyes when he realized that he shouldn't have ignored those headline-sized warnings in his Aug 6 daily briefing about imminent Al-Qaeda attacks within our borders?]
In the interest of getting it right this time, I've done a little fact-checking via Google.com's search engine (keywords: "Bush Vacation") and the WhiteHouse.gov website (where I read a handful of Ari Fleischer's press briefings from August and early September of 2001.) Here's what I found:
[1] GWB was on vacation from Aug 4 thru Aug 31, 2001. He had planned to return to DC on Sept. 2nd, but decided to return two days early after the press pointed out that the vacation, as originally scheduled, would have tied him with Nixon for the LONGEST VACATION IN US PRESIDENTIAL HISTORY (ie, 30 days.) By returning 2 days early, his vacation, at 28 days, tied him with Reagan for the SECOND LONGEST presidential vacation in US history. [Incidentally, that vacation brought his total vacation time to 52 days for 2001 as of 9/11. Gee, where do I apply for this job that requires little or no personal responsibility, no accountability, and little or no OT? Oh yeah, AND it offers a half-million dollar paycheck PLUS 7-1/2 weeks of vacation time for every eight months logged on the job. Sounds nice, huh? Some trust fund babies have all the luck!]
[2] To counter the criticisms that Bush was vacationing way too much, the administration's spin doctors characterized that month-long retreat as a "working vacation." Apparently, though, he didn't work any harder at the ranch than he did at the Oval Office. According to the 5/18/02 San Francisco Chronicle, the headline on Bush43's Aug. 6th Daily (CIA) Briefing read "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the US." [www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/05/18/MN186577.DTL] Note to Dubbaya: It's a good idea to actually READ those daily briefings. Just raise your hand if there are any words you don't understand, and schoolmaster Cheney will be right over to assist you. OK?
[3] Upon returning to the WH on 8/31/02, GWB knuckled down and got busy handling the nation's business . . . by jetting off for a SERIES OF PHOTO OPPS. Here's the skinny. He spent Labor Day (9/3) in Wisconsin with the Northern Wisconsin Council of Carpenters and in Detroit with the Michigan Teamsters. On Thur, 9/6, he and Prez Fox of Mexico posed for a few color glossies at the Aurora Gonzalez Community & Family Resource Center in Toledo, OH. On Sun, 9/9, Dubbaya flipped-off the nation in the Rose Garden (uh, he presided over a ceremonial coin toss to kick-off the NFL season.) On Mon, 9/10, he posed at the Navy Yard with the Australian Prime Minister, had "a working lunch with the PM," and then jetted off to Jacksonville, FL for a photo opp on reading & education. On the morning of Tues, 9/11, he was in Sarasota, FL for yet another reading & education photo opp at a school. [Tragically, the terrorist attacks scuttled Dubbaya's afternoon 9/11 plans to host a "working Congressional BBQ" on the South Lawn of the White House. [What is it with Bush's spin doctors and all these "working" meals & vacations? Just drop the pretenses already, and tell it like it is: when there's serious work to be done, Bush43 is sure to be MIA.] Sadly, the rest of that infamous week's itinerary contained more of the same (ie, a Thursday photo opp at the Library of Congress, and a Friday photo opp at the dedication of the Eisenhower Executive Office Building.) Finally, after all that strenuous "work," the prez felt he was going to need another vacation, so he announced plans to spend the weekend at Camp David (probably watching football and choking on some pretzels.)
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 14:23:51
Posted by: Mister Sam, The Rocky & Bullwinkle Show
Norm: This trip in Mr. Peabody's Way-Back Machine is just for you.
REPORTER: Mr. Paulsen. You've promised that, if elected, you can simultaneously balance the budget, reduce unemployment, and bring inflation under control. Do you really believe this is possible? And, if so, do you really believe that the electorate will buy into these wildly optimistic claims?
PAULSEN: (matter of factly) Sure, why not?
Oh well. Sure as hell seemed funny and wildly absurd back then, since nobody thought it was possible to do all 3 at once. Clinton, of course, proved that it was possible, and Dubbaya is proving that it isn't possible for "just any idiot to pull off that feat."
So how about it America? Can we stop being distracted by the damn BJ already, and give the man his due. As a nation, we forgave Nixon for Watergate and Reagan for Iran-Contra. Republicans even keep pressing for more idolotry to Reagan even though he dragged us through the worst post-WWII recession on record, nearly bankrupted the country in the process, and spent a full four years of his presidency drooling on himself. How about a little even-handedness already?
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 14:21:10
Posted by: Mister Sam, Monday Musings
Hoops: Happy belated birthday big guy! Hope it was a memorable one. Sorry you couldn't make it to C2E V last month, but I hope to tip a cold one with ya' and swap some favorite jazz titles in Chicago over the Labor Day Danfest.
Little Wild One: You can mediate my debates any time you like. Hell, for that matter, grab a pie (either a mud-filled one or one with lots of whip cream topping) and join in the fun if you're so inclined. Just keep your eyes pealed for incoming projectiles, keep smiling, and don't forget to duck!
Oleander: Come to Chicago over Labor Day, and you can buy me all the drinks you like darlin'. Hell, I'll even sing a few Dan tunes for ya' occapella if you get me drunk enough. And, while we're yakkin', you can tell me about the Ben Folds concert that I missed on account of 9/11. [FYI, he was scheduled to appear in DC that night. Obviously, the show was cancelled.] IMHO, he and Joe Jackson rival Donald in the categories of Best R&R Sneer and Most Cynical Frontman. Gotta love keyboard players with a boatload of attitude, and the chops/composing talent to write and perform such gutsy material. While I'm at it, let me add Randy Newman, Billy Joel, and Elton John to the list of master curmudgeonly composers/ivory ticklers.
RE: Edwards. I like Democrats with razor-sharp intellects and a taste for the jugular (eg, JFK, Clinton, & Carville to name a few.) In politics, nice guys finish last, and the country just can't handle much more Republican bungling on the economy and affairs of state. (Did I hear something yesterday about violence erupting in Northern Ireland again? Seems Bush43 has the Reverse Midas Touch: everything good that he touches turns FROM gold TO shit.)
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 12:46:33
Posted by: Whatevah happens,
W1p: that was Larry Carlton doing the beautiful guitar solo on Were You Blind, uh I mean Third World Man.
jk: WB once said he didn't include Fall of '92 on 11ToW because there were already too many songs in that tempo on the album.
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 12:40:52
Posted by: W1P,
Who plays the guitar solo on Third World Man? That's my nomination for one of the top SD guitarists. Oh, and at #6? Hank Easton!
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 11:54:44
Posted by: jk, jk
uh that's d&w.
i ain't perfect you know. you want perfect listen to fall o 92.
jk
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 11:52:00
Posted by: jk, jk
and of course it is errily as revelant in 02 as it was in 92. unfortunately.
jk
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 11:43:05
Posted by: jk, jk
fall of 92 was originally released on the promo cd (pro cd 7353-r) for book of liars and hard up case (one of my prize possessions). and is a fascinating recording. it is a studio recording with, one would think, members of the 93 touring band. bill ware on vibes? it has no guitar or backing vocals. it was written by both b&w (clearly) and produced by both. walter is singing great and his lyrics and "worn by time vocals" rub perfectly against the sweet jazzz music underneath to create a brilliantly funny masterpiece.
leaving this off 11tow is akin to leaving good vibrations off of pet sounds or strawberry fields/penny lane off of sgt. pep. although stylistically and sonically it does not fit with the other tunes.
it again was offficially released as a bonus to a german cousin dup promo with aja from aia and overture (live). to me, then, this makes it an official sd tune - recorded and released. with walter singing lead. the live version certainly has its plusess especially with walters interaction with the singers. it was most likely recorded 10 sept. 1993.
the song is also available on many good boots (sorry birthday boy) from the 93 tour and is on various fantastic compilation cdrs circulating.
it is certainly on my top ten sd tunes list.
jk
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 09:22:36
Posted by: Whatevah happens,
Fla.Rm.: besides Andy's, your only chance of getting Fall of '92 (the studio version) is somehow finding one of the promo CD singles that Giant put out to support 11ToW. It was a B-side to Hard Up Case I think. Of course you could also find the live version on one of the many fine bootlegs from the '93 tour.
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 09:06:18
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Sean: Sorry I didn't comment on Rosemary Clooney. I guess I figured I wouldn't comment since I basically never listened to her music. I suppose that I should comment on Clooney since I know SOOO much about her. She was hot, especially in her old age. I enjoyed her on the game shows like $1 Trillion Pyramid and the Match Game. And her nephew George is pretty cute too, right?
Haitian Divorce is a great song. I didn't feel I had much to add to that conversation, that's why I didn't say anything. I guess the one comment I'd have about the song is that always makes me think that they were watching a movie and basically wrote what they saw. It's very cinematic in it's lyrical flow.
As far as my guitarist list, I would have to rank them like this:
1) Becker
2) Carlton
3) Herington
4) Zingg
5) Dias
No doubt that Larry Carlton is a better player, but I think Becker's solos tend to define the Steely Dan sound, even though he didn't solo on most of the Top 40 songs. Carlton's solos were excellent, but I think Becker's solos tend to make your back hair stand up at times and are more suited to the style. Just my opinion. I guess I rank Herington ahead of Zingg because I saw him play, whereas I didn't get a chance to see Zingg (although I heard him on AIA). I think Dias' solo on Aja is reason enough for him to crack the top 5.
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 02:30:18
Posted by: Razor Boy, Grand opening of the newest Steamer Heaven on Walden Pond
Happy Birthday Hoops! Hope the coming year brings you all you need, plus a little extra on the side.
I just returned home from seeing The Eagles at The Marcus Amphitheater here in Milwaukee on the last day of Summerfest. According to Glen Frey, the show sold out in 11 minutes. Not surprising since I heard it had the least expensive tickets on their whole tour. Having seen them when Hell Froze Over in '94-'95 I opted for the lawn seats at an amazing $40 (including the old Ticketbastard charge plus admission to the Fest) I paid twice that for nosebleeds at the United Center and even more for great seats at the Bradley Center. True to what I'd been hearing, they played just over 3 hours which made it very worth while. They had in tow 4 horns, a keyboard and piano player and a percussionist/fill in when Don's up front drummer. The fill in for Don Felder did very good, hung right in there with Joe on a few songs. Felder was missed on a couple of songs though, namely Hotel California. The horns worked well, mostly with the solo stuff they were playing but they worked them into some of the classics. Believe the hype, Joe Walsh stold the show. I'm not knocking they other guys, they each bring something to the table, but it just happens to be Joe's table. Always the showman, he upstaged everyone jumping up and down and running all over the stage durring his solo's. It was great hearing Funk 49 and Rocky Mountain Way, among 4 or 5 others. Didn't hear The Confessor, Ordinary Average Guy or I.L.B.T.'s but you can't have it all. Sorry to have taken this long to get to the point of this but it was a very good show......except for the sound. It was awful. The bass drum just about drowned everything else out. The mike's weren't clear enough and it was hard to distinguish some of the guitar work. Neither of those volumes were well balanced to that damn drum.
Roger Nichols, if you're out there, could you maybe give them a few pointers, a tip or two, a suggestion perhaps. Maybe I'm just spoiled after the SD 2K tour. It could have been the best concert of the year if they would have had a better sound mix. So, in the interest of trying to keep some of the competition close, give 'em a call.
Ok, alright. I checked out Katy Lied on the 3rd down in Naperville. I was about 45 minutes late due to a hellish drive and could hear Sign in Stranger as I was parking. Luckily they started about 20 minutes late so I heard about 40 minutes of the show. They sounded great, tighter than at The Barn a few weeks back. It's easy for me to criticize from the other side of the stage but there are a few miscues and missed solos or lyrics. Still they get props for getting up there and doing it. From what I heard, Bodhisattva was the highlight, everyone seems to get together on that one and they just wail. I bumped into HeyMike while I was there but no one else. I've seen a few other blurbs about the show and wish I could have met up with the others there.
Oh, well, it was still a good time. I stayed for about 40 minutes of Foreigner, that was all I could take. I used to be a big fan of theirs and still enjoy it but it was pretty bad. Lou Gramm, the vocalist, seemed to be screaming out the lyrics and it barely sounded like him at times. If I recall correctly, Mick Jones is the guitarist and he seemed almost comical on stage. He looked to be in good shape but the image of him with what little hair he had left and his guitar slung down to his knees just made me chuckle. There was some poser on bass that had all the classic moves down too. It was a bit much even for nostalgia's sake.
The personal highlight for me was a little stage set up by the midway. It featured a host of teenage bands struting their stuff. It was very refreshing. There were a couple of really good bands, one of which opened with Tales of Brave Ulysses. Thank god there's teens out there who don't want to be the next INSYNC. Long Live Rock.
Peace, Love and Dan
Razor
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 00:24:33
Posted by: DrMµ,
Hoops: Happy birthday!
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 00:21:33
Posted by: DrMµ,
Oleander: I hate to say this, but as mentioned recently on one of the GBs, Walter also said this OUTSIDE the song as well...I'm not sure I'd equate ineffective on non-existent domestic political posturing with screwing the public...AND one could argue that that's a matter of opinion anyway as the economy was bouncing back during the last 2 quarters of '92 and ironically going started into the tank the last 2 quarters of '00...whatever the case I certainly did not vote for H in '92.
My point is that the song is outside their usual style, the line gratuitous, inaccurate, and perhaps for that reason it is IMO very ineffective, but I wouldn't call it "screwing the audience"...and wisely left out of 11 ToW ...besides if the character were a Yuppie out of a job, he would not use the word Nazi - that would mean government control of business, but wussie or wimps or boneheads or sniveling idiots...
Date: Mon, July 08, 2002, 00:01:59
Posted by: oleander, ou sont les hoops d'antan?
Hoops!--Now how could you have let me miss your birthday? Have a lovely one.
Moonflower--give the guy a smooch for me, OK? Lovely to hear from you.
Got to--Andy's site is up and you can get it there.
jk--her tribute concert was such a big deal, and the tour too, how could a trib album be so far behind indeed?
Mu--This is why I stay out of these things. I didn't say shit about Bush Sr.'s past, though I'm well aware of it. And if one does heroic things in the past and then screws the populace in the present, the former excuses the latter? And re: Fall of '92: it all depends AS USUAL what one reads into the song. Whose is the voice? A self-absorbed BMW-driving yuppie who lost his socks in the market, railing against various administrations for lack of a better target (as well as for lack of any insight whatsoever)? For him to call someone a "Nazi" is specious in the extreme, which is I think the point. How much in the song is the Dan's take? Not given to us to know. My point was that the protagonist in the song sees the past couple of pre-Clinton administrations as wicked sellouts to his class. And oh my, what is this "in practice" Nazism and Communism are the same? But I tell you what: if you want to talk about it, e me, 'k?
Date: Sun, July 07, 2002, 20:11:36
Posted by: ed beatty, east of Hawaii as of yesterday
Hoops,
Another year huh,well I do hope the coming year is as good for you
as it can be.
Best wishes for a healthy,happy SD new album and tour forthcoming year.
Ed Terry and Lora
Date: Sat, July 06, 2002, 11:33:03
Posted by: Moonflower, Mattoon, Illinois
Hey Hoopsie!!!!
Happy birthday! Enjoy!!
Love and Peace,
Moonflower
P.S. Hi Pete & Shari, JK, Oleander and all my friends in our big, wonderful Dan Land!
Date: Fri, July 05, 2002, 22:09:30
Posted by: jk, jk
hey gots
seems like joni has one maybe two cds (and a video?) to come out before we get a taste. even her fan web guy - he doan no. somebody call reprise (warners) (sony) (megabiz).
seems her albums are MORE IMPORTANT than steely dan.
the tribute cd has amazing talent so the record co almost has to put it out. lets hope for xmas.
wheres lg?
record companies are starting to go after little guys on the internet for allowing downloading. i'm hearing rumbles of starting a one week boycott against them.
jk
Date: Fri, July 05, 2002, 21:31:39
Posted by: GotToHave, Some time in the sun
Any chance that Steely Dan's version of Carey for some Joni Mitchell tribute album will ever see the light of day? Like wee'z been waitin' forever, or at least over a year. Like is this a war of who can take longer to be over-perfect----Joni vs Donald? Does one of them have to croak (god-with a little "g"-forbid) before we get it? Wee'z jonesin' or at least whining. How come these SD cover bands don't cover Carey? Now there would be gettin' one's leg up on things.
Where, besides Andy's, can I get Fall of 1992?
Fla. Rm.
Date: Fri, July 05, 2002, 20:03:47
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
fezo: How soon we forget a slice of Poland...Springtime for Hitler
That's true for the 7 Worlds Collide DVD (which should be virtually the same as the Direct TV) vs. the CD...mixed differently?
Better Digital coding?...you should get the West 57th DVD - amazing stuff...
Date: Fri, July 05, 2002, 19:49:27
Posted by: WEA,
What's with the record companies crying that they will go out of business if people download music. I just got Photoshop 7 today and the CD has stamped on it, "Manufactured by WEA" ----------in other words Warner/Electra/Atlantic----Mnfg." Sheeshhh. Methinks these record company pimps wanna be in on every cut of the pie and other people's pies too.
Date: Fri, July 05, 2002, 12:36:00
Posted by: fezo, homeagainnaturally
No more snipers up in the Sally Hemmings memorial coal tower, ole. The seasons have changed and C'ville has returned to its foul, fetid, humid, hazy summer self. Too hot for even the crooks to come out to play
Hey Mu, Stalin fought against the Nazis too. Does that make him an okay guy?
(I agree that Bush I's, just like Dole's, or Tom Harkin's or Max Cleland's military service, is often lazily overlooked by the electorate)
I caught the Neil Finn concert last night on DirectTV. God knows why, but the sound mix is much better than on the CD. I got into it a lot more, especially the Eddie Vedder stuff.
Date: Fri, July 05, 2002, 01:14:10
Posted by: DrMµ, last irony
speaking of evil: the ultimate and terrible irony of the 20th Centurry is that while Nazi-ism (if that's a word) and Communism are at the two polar opposite end of the political spectrum in theory, in practice, they turned out to be virtually the same...kind of a pretzel mobius...
Date: Fri, July 05, 2002, 01:05:47
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas - how long do you hold a red, white and blue sparkler - ouch!
Hope everybody had a happy 4th - one lone fruitcake on an otherwise joyous day...
Hey Oleander: There's a few good reasons Fall of '92 stayed in the can with Prince Albert:
(1) Clinton won the election
(2) despite the amazing arrangement from '93, the tune sounds like something from the Johnny Carson Stump the Band schtick
(3) and as smart as Walter is - calling H a Nazi was plain irrational...
If you think that H was the son of a rich Senator like Al Gore, you're right...
If you think H was a lifetime politico like Al Gore, you're right...
If you think that his domestic policy after the Gulf War became rudderless, you're right...
If you think that H and Al Gore had very similar voting records, you're right (who's wife put those stickers on our CDs?)...
If you think H had a difficult time straightening out the mess of a CIA that Nixon left him, you're right...
If you think that it was H who called the Reagan/Kemp model "voodoo economics," then you're right...
If you think H "wimped" out and raised taxes under pressure, you're right...
But if you've forgotten that H, unlike his son and Al Gore and Rush Limbaugh, flew many dangerous missions in a War against the Japanese and the original Evil Axis of WWII, getting shot down as well, then shame on you!
Mr. Sam: I like Bob Kerrey much as well...too bad about the "Nam fallout...I have to give most people who endured a war so poorly managed in Washington, constantly putting our men in harm's way for nothing, the benefit of the doubt. Every night, with the VC lurking, the sounds and flares of shrapnel and bullets. I can't imagine living through it or with it...and many could not...or were fortunate sons...
My biggest beef with Ashcroft and Ridge is that they've turned out to be poor communicators and inneffective leaders...how soon we forget that Clinton ordered more wiretaps that even Nixon...
Date: Fri, July 05, 2002, 00:48:10
Posted by: Dave,
Happy 4th everyone.
I was invited as a guest to attend The Who's melancholy tour opener at the Hollywood Bowl monday night. It was a great show, although with The Who, there's always that irony about some old rockers having a revue of their classic tunes. Face it, they coined, "hope I die before I get old." I guess Keith and John did. Very sad.
The opener was "I Can't Explain" which brought us to attention with its power chords. So here are 50-something guys playing a tune they coined in their teens! LONG LIVE THE WHO!!!!
Pino Palladino had the unenviable position of filling Entwistle's shoes. He did a fine job. That was apparent with the opening three songs of "I Can't Explain," "Substitute," and "Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere." Pino is a veteran of Townshend's studio albums so I am sure he was very familiar with The Who's material. During "My Generation," the audience even applauded during the bass solo, a solo that was historically all Entwistle's. Of course, Daltrey and Townshend both acknowledged that they were playing for Ox and that it was going to be very, very difficult.
Later in the show, they moved on to the deep, dark, Paleozoic period of the Who (as DF might call it)---1970s with the epic and powerful, "Baba O'Reilly" and "Won't Get Fooled Again."
Another highlight for me was the encore. They played "Pinball Wizard" and "See Me, Feel Me."
I'm glad I got to see them because I have a feeling this is the last time there will be a Who tour. Of course, I guess it could be argued, the real last Who tour was in 1978.
And yes, it was sad to see another Bass player die in his sleep. These things always happen in threes they say. But I hope that's not the case here. In case you don't know, Ray Brown was very instrumental in Ella Fitzgerald's career (and also was her husband for a period). He also played with Oscar Peterson, Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie, and many classic Verve albums. We'll miss your Be Boppin' Bass, Ray.
Am I the only one sick of the media and news telling us how we are all so worried about terrorism today when in fact we're mainly just having a good time? Melodrama sells I guess.
Conan O'Brien and Craig Kilbourne both are terrible late nite hosts, if you ask me. No wit. All cheap remarks and self-worship, especially Kilbourne.
G' nite
Dave
Date: Thurs, July 04, 2002, 20:19:41
Posted by: Peg, right here
Oleander -- Like you I like to stay out of these types of discussions but I will say I have dittoed your observations. I shuddered when I learned that man was going to be VP; even more at the thought that he could step in to fill mini-me's shoes. So, keep praying for better days.
Hey "n" - thanks muchos for the info. Somebody with Rosemary's longevity has so much out there. I will look within that timeframe.
"I saw the fireworks, I believed that I was dreaming...."
Date: Thurs, July 04, 2002, 00:45:00
Posted by: oleander, overtly subversive
Mista Sam. Sean. C'moverhere and let me buy you a drink. Take the afternoon off and I'd love to talk with you guys. I dig your jaundiced angles.
Mu, I disagree with you at least 90% of the time, but I like the heck out of you, so you come along too.
Peg--Cheney is the beefy hand inside the puppet. The grey eminence is as noted the one who runs things behind the scenes. He is an evil, evil man. Ashcroft is an evil, evil man. I usually stay out of these discussions for obvious reasons, but if you guys thought Fall of '92 was right, boy howdy do you have some powerful maleficent guys to fear now.
Re: Edwards. I live in North Carolina and have met the guy. Usually I'm moderately comfortable with his politics (remember who the other senator from NC is), but look: he's very bright, very self-absorbed, very wealthy, and maximally ambitious. He is so anxious to try for the presidency he can't wait a few extra years to get some road on him. He is also a very successful malpractice lawyer, ie extremely manipulative and instinctively knows how to go for the kill. I guess that makes him like most politicians, only maybe smarter. So beware.
He would make a good Steely song character. (somewhat lame attempt at Steely content)
hey fezo, my man, any snipers lately?
Date: Wed, July 03, 2002, 12:00:41
Posted by: Little Wild One, Houston
It really is a bad summer for bassists on tour. Ray Brown, who was from Pittsburgh near my hometown, is dead at 75. Like the Who guy, he died in his sleep, so I guess if you gotta go....
I can't believe I'm saying this, but maybe it's a good thing there's no SD tour '02?
Date: Wed, July 03, 2002, 11:53:00
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
Sean, this is just speculation on my part but I believe they don't talk about Skunk lovingly because, like me, they don't like his playing! He's not as technically proficient as Dias and the players that followed him and he doesn't have a lot of control even over his more bluesy economical style, his vibrato kind of sucks and, well that's enough. Sorry Skunk!
Date: Wed, July 03, 2002, 10:46:51
Posted by: norm,
Rosemary Clooney is (was) George's aunt. His father is her brother Nick.
http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=Brq6atr49klkx~C#disc0
Date: Wed, July 03, 2002, 10:30:02
Posted by: Sean, Quincy, Mass.
Hi Gang.
Regarding Rosemary Clooney, I thought I remember Fagen talking about his childhood and how his mother used to sing along and phrase to the female artists of the day. Somehow, I think he might mentioned Rosemary Clooney as one of those she would phrase. The likes of her will not pass again. In all seriousness, is she related to George Clooney?
Earl, you E-mailed me to say you like talking music. I'll give you that you might want to reply to the Bush thread but then, you music lover, you don't even comment on the music threads like Rosemary Clooney or Hatian Divorce. If no one cares if W. did cocaine, why does he care enough not to give any answer.
Here's a Steely question that's potentially political. Why don't Becker and Fagen talk about Skunk Baxter anymore? How come they don't talking lovingly of him?
A Big Yow out to jk and and a big YES to Pevar.
As W. would say, BE CAREFUL! THE TERRORISTS ARE OUT TO KILL YOU! And be sure to enjoy the Fourth.
Date: Wed, July 03, 2002, 10:19:52
Posted by: Luckless Pedestrian, @ home
hey, people, get a room, lol: http://www.debategate.com/3DHS/
there's a fun test on the yellow, btw
drew zingg doing bodhi... was a classic live moment not to be forgotten
i remember donald introducing him to a wildly appreciative crowd at great woods saying: dddddduuuurrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggg
Date: Wed, July 03, 2002, 06:45:25
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
Mr Sam: You are wrong. Bush was in Florida making appearances at various schools on September 11. I wonder where Clinton was when the Sudanese government offered Usama Bin Laden for $$$.
Earl
Date: Wed, July 03, 2002, 00:17:50
Posted by: n, whoops, I forgot...
to answer your question... the host guy was saying that she was always a great singer, but material-wise, she did her best work in the last 15 years of her career. So I guess just stick to the later stuff, like the one you have.
Date: Wed, July 03, 2002, 00:16:16
Posted by: W1P,
We've done Fearless in rehearsal and something about it doesn't quite sound right so we haven't trotted it out live. On my "A Fair Forgery of Pink Floyd" tribute CD to be released in September, Fearless has been recorded by one of the best musicians I know -- Tom Freund. Of course I could be wrong, but I think it wont be long until everyone "in the know" musically will be hip to Tom (who once played bass in a band with Ben Harper)
Date: Wed, July 03, 2002, 00:08:51
Posted by: norm,
Ever since Pat Paulsen and Harold Stassen died, there's been no one left to vote for.
Peg: I was listening to an overnight talk radio show last night, and the host (a TV writer, who also knows his old-school jazz) was rhapsodizing about Rosemary Clooney. Jack Sheldon called in and chatted for a while, then they played a record with Rosemary and Jack singing the theme from Road To Morocco.
W1P: Yeah, doing stuff like Arnold Layne or Bike probably wouldn't go over so hot. But Childhood's End could do it. So would Saucerful Of Secrets if you get an extra-long set and the other guys are up for some space jam. (I take mine on toast.)
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 21:54:26
Posted by: Peg, 'neath the stars
Rosemary Clooney is a hometown gal here, from in my area (Cincinnati, northern Kentucky) but I am surprised that nobody else out there has mentioned her much. I can't be the only SD fan who has some of her music. I only have one of her albums (Girl Singer), so if anybody else out there can suggest a few more, I'd appreciate it. Saw her final performance at Riverbend July 4, 2000, and the following night, Steely Dan was on that same stage...
A most wonderful Fourth to you all....Dems and un-Dems alike.
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 21:43:59
Posted by: Peg, 'neath the stars
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 21:11:16
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Mr. Sam: Even though I grew up in NC, I don't know much about Edwards either besides he is well-spoken, wealthy, a trial lawyer...there's a young African-American Rep. (D) from Tennessee who seemed to be really stable, but I forgot his name..Roberts? Robbins?
You may be right about the ability of the Nor'easter to take the states in the south and the middle...
I wouldn't be surprised if Al Qaeda were involved in OKC, but McVeigh knew little. They tend to put feelers out, have multiple plans proceeding at the same time, and are brilliant and compartmentalizing the operations. Nichols could have run into them - he expressed dislike for the US gov, and they reeled him in, supplied plans, knowhow, but distanced themselves from the final mission. McVeigh was just an unstable powderkeg execute the plan...who knows? Supposedly half of the Al Qaeda terrorists on 9/11 did not know the specifics of the mission until the time they got on board.
Here's one to think about: 2 women - Hillary vs. Condy Rice in 2008??
Hope everybody has a safe and enjoyable 4th!
No hide nor hair of even a Dan rumor about the Next One? anybody??????
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 20:53:11
Posted by: Mister Sam, The Humble Pie Concert
Stevee: Please know that I meant nothing personal about the "is or isn't a Jew" ribbing. It was just my way of expressing why I'm not a fan of organized religion. [Anybody: My mom's Lutheran, but my dad is not. Would Lutheran Church doctrine deem me Lutheran or non-Lutheran?] With regards to tribute bands, I love 'em. Just wish there were more of them in my fair city. Also, I've been playing guitar for 20 years now, and have an appreciation for what an immense challenge it is to master even one SD tune. I admire your hutspa (sp) and share your enthusiasm for all things Dan. As I'm sure you already know, your brethren in SoCal, the Steely Damned also do what they do out of love for the music. During HOF week in NYC, Mr. Tedde told me that his bandmates all have other gigs that pay the rent. The Steely Damned experience, for them, is about passion and pleasure, not profits. Also, how about posting them Mr. Sam lyrics. I love the tune, but haven't figured out most of the lyrics yet. Finally, thanks for the report on the Who concert. I'm envious.
W1P: Every consider adding "Fearless" to your band's repertoire? For me personally, that and One of These Days are the seminal Floyd tunes from Meddle. I especially love the wonderfully-syncopated rhythm guitar and the trippy vocal stylings. On the whole, it seems pretty AOR friendly, and, in my mind at least, it anticipated a lot of what transpired on DSOTM. That, of course, is just my opinion. I could be totally wrong.
Fezo: Would that by "Dubbaya" as in "Dee-Dubbaya-Eye"?
Earl: I love Steely Dan. How about you? No new album? No upcoming tour, huh? Bummer. So, what else do you want to talk about? [Earl, I know where you stand vis-a-vis political content on this board. Sorry. I disagree. Again, as Hoops suggested, just take what you want and leave the rest. I'll eat the slices with mushrooms and black olives, and you can have the ones with anchovies. Or, to quote Larrabe from an episode of Get Smart, "You use your half of the air the way you want, and I'll use my half the way I want."]
Hopefully, our paths can cross on a subject where we share more common ground. I've read a number of your older posts, and you seem like a decent chap. The trick about talking politics and not letting it turn ugly Earl is to maintain your sense of humor about it all. You just gotta make like a duck baby. Know what I mean?
Dennis: Favorite SD guitarists:
1. Larry Carlton (DTMA & KC - the definitive SD guitar tracks IMHO)
2. Denny Dias (The first solo on Bodhisattva is electrifying;
YGT II: "Aw, holy fuck! That's Great!)
3. WB (Bad Sneakers, Black Friday, Home At Last -
Walter, you are a god!)
4. Elliott Randall (it's the quality, not the quantity, that matters here.
Jimmy Page knew what he was talking about.)
5. Skunk (I'm including his pedal steel work in this assessment. His work on
the CTE album alone merits a place on the list.)
Honorable Mention: Dean Parks, Rick Derringer
DrMu: Yes, I read your post in its entirety. I always do. I just don't agree that Reno obstructed Starr's investigation . If anything, I think she caved too easily to him most of the time. [The lone exception, as I recall, concerned her stonewalling on the investigation of GORE's 1996 fund-raising efforts.]
For 2004: My guy, so far, is John Edwards (NC). He undoubtedly needs a grow a bit before 2004, but then, so did Clinton in 1988. (In case you don't remember, his nominating speech for Dukakis in '88 got him booed off the stage.) I just wish I knew more about Edwards at this point. Sadly, he's still largely an unknown entity to me. From what I have seen, though, he's pretty easy on the eyes & ears, comes across OK on television, and has the DLC stamp of approval. That's a good start. He could also be a major asset to the Dems if he could snatch NC & VA (2 of the largest electoral prizes in the South.)
I like John Kerry (Bob Kerry, too, for that matter), but I'm dubious about the electoral prospects of northern D's. Historically, D's fare better when they nominate Southerners. And, Daschle? I can't get much of a read on this guy. Perhaps, it's my fear of the D's producing another McGovern (you know, the Dakota connection.) Then again, I can't help but feel like he's been carved from that same wood that Gepetto used to make Gore, Dukakis, Mondale, and McGovern.
My advice to Gore: Sit out 2004, and get a drama/public speaking coach. If Bush gets re-elected, make another run in 2008. Otherwise, look for another profession Al. [Yes, he was the rightful winner in 2000, but, honestly, it should have never been that close. For Pete's sake, he lost TN, ARK, and WV! He did a great job, as I like to say, of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.] The precedent for this strategy is DICK Nixon in 1968. The took a break from the public spotlight after heart-breaking losses to JFK and Pat Brown. Who knows? It could happen again. Couldn't it? [PS - What's the deal with all these R's named DICK? Is there something being inferred there. Personally, I'd opt to go by either Rich or Richard. Other famous DICK's: Tracy, Gephardt, Morris, and John Holmes's. Ba dum bump!]
I agree with you about JC Watts Mu. His loss will be a setback to the R's. The lack of diversity in the Rep party has been a sore spot with me personally. Powell, however, is and will remain their best chance for making in-roads to the Black community in future elections.
Nichols & Al Qaida? Hard to denigrate your sources Mu. (Definitely not from the lunatic fringe, though, I myself am an ABC kinda guy. Jennings & Koppel are the best IMHO.)
As I was reading your latest, it did ring familiar about Nichols having a Phillipino bride, and, of course, there is undoubtedly a substantial Al Qaida presence in the Phillipines. Given McVeigh's pre-occupation with the Turner Diaries, though, it's still hard for me to square him working in cahoots with Islamic terrorists. Then again, Nichols is not McVeigh. And, of the two, Nichols is the more mysterious character. I guess anything's possible, though. War, terrorism, & politics make strange bedfellows. Thanks for source material. I'll have to follow up on this, and see where it leads.
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 20:15:15
Posted by: Little Wild One, Houston
Geez, I think you might have scared even Jebby off with that last epistle.
Sam/Mu: I have a suggestion. Why don't I arrange a meeting and then y'all can just have at it with this debate in private, preferably where adult beverages are served? Yeah, that's the ticket. Instead of everyone gathering to hear the music of SD in some far away locale as played by Dennis or Stevee or Mr. Sticks or TSD, we could all gather to watch Sam/Mu, maybe Earl, Stevee, Jebby match political/ethnic/religious wits.
Remember, I said alcohol IS a necessity!!
Oh, yeah. And now for the Steely Dan-gential. There's no way the guys are followers of the GOP...I think they probably view most political figures much in the same light as some/many of their colleagues in the entertainment industry who put a high price on popularity and the almighty dollar and little value on what is important.
Call me about that meeting, guys. July 4th is good--I get the day off because it's my country's birthday and, personally, I love to celebrate that occasion.
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 19:44:57
Posted by: DrMµ , connect the dots
Mr.Sam:
My "right-wing, paramilitary, talk radio hysterical paranoia, Waco wacko, disgruntled vet, Black UN Helicopter, New World Order angle" sources that reveal that Terry Nichols learned to make the bomb in the Phillipines are from such "fringe" media as the NBC TV affiliate in Oklahoma City and the CBS Dallas affiliate (note that our special forces are helping the Phillipine gov. try to eradicate Al Qaeda from the southern Phillipines as we speak):
NBC station in Oklahoma City:
http://www.kfor.com/Global/story.asp?S=793868
KTVT-TV, Dallas | CBS 11
"Ever since the bombing of the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, critics have contended that more people were involved than Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. A recent federal lawsuit alleges that Iraqi agents also played a role and McVeighÕs former defense attorney claims that prior to the bombing Nichols made contact with international terrorists.
In a special report CBS 11Õs Steve Narisi says the trail some investigators are following leads to the Philippines.
"The U.S. Government has contended all along that any link between Nichols and Islamic extremists is strictly coincidental. During Nichols and McVeighÕs trial, the court didnÕt allow the theory to be pursued. Now that there is a federal lawsuit alleging conspiracy, the legal system will be obliged to take a hard look at the connection for the first time.
THE TERRORISTS
The possible link between Nichols and terrorists stretches all the way to the Philippines. In this crowded, impoverished country in the early 1990Õs, Al-Queda connected terrorists were planning horrific crimes against the United States. During that same time Nichols was a frequent visitor, his last trip coming just before the Oklahoma City Bombing.
Some of the bombing victims are claiming that those terrorists in the Philippines were part of a conspiracy that provided Nichols with the technical expertise to take down the Murrah Building. Lead counsel Michael Johnston says, "it was relatively common knowledge in the fall of 1994 that there was an enclave of a number of anti-U.S Arabic organizations were meeting and planning, a convention of terrorism in the Philippines."
Two of those terrorists allegedly met with Nichols. One was Ramzi Youssef, the convicted bomber of the World Trade Center and Abdul Hakim Murad convicted of trying to blow-up U.S. airliners over the South Pacific. Both of these men are now in U.S. prisons. But back in the 90Õs, they and others were experimenting with explosives and timers before their cell was exposed and broken up.
NICHOLS IN THE PHILLIPINES
In Cebu City in 1990, Nichols took a 17 year-old bride, Marife Torres. Over the next several years Nichols often would return to the Philippines, sometimes with his wife, sometimes not. Passport records obtained by CBS 11 show that Nichols traveled at least five times to the Islands. ItÕs unclear how many visits were actually made, an FBI copy of his passport is missing ten pages. But the final trip was in November of 1994 and lasted two months. His journey began when Islamic terrorists were most active and ended when they were exposed.
Once Nichols returned home there was a flurry of calls back to the Philippines. Many were to pay phones and untraceable numbers often made in the middle of the Filipino night.
THE WITNESS
There is at least one witness who connects Nichols to Islamic terrorists active in the PhilippinesÉa shadowy character named Edwin Angeles. He was a double-agent who infiltrated terrorist groups for the Philippine government.
Angeles was once a member of Abu Sayyef, a local Muslim group responsible for kidnappings, murders, and bombings. But, later he suddenly switched sides and surfaced as a star witness for the government. Philippine authorities trusted him so much, they presented Angeles at this news conference and credited him with unmasking native and foreign terrorists.
Timothy McVeighÕs former defense attorney, Stephen Jones says his investigators interviewed Angeles a year after that news conference. He says Angeles described meeting with a man fitting Nichols description and referred to him as "the farmer". Angeles went on to describe Nichols as an American, from the Midwest. Jones went on to say that Angeles, " drew a sketch that resembled Nichols but with his hair being a different color. We were satisfied it was the same person, and he said he saw Nichols meeting with Ramzi Youssef, gave us the location, and described two other people present, one of those being Abdul Murad."
Jones says the topic of the meeting was explosives, "they were talking about bombs and explosives and Nichols was seeking bombs and advice."
The Philippine Bureau of Immigration investigated Nichols Island connections. A report describes a meeting with terrorists from Pakistan, Iran, and the local terrorist group, Abu Sayyef. Immigration officials involved with report now refused to discuss it. As for Angeles heÕs no longer alive. After a falling out with the government he was tried on kidnapping and murder charges and acquitted. Three years ago he was gunned down while leaving a mosque. The murder is still unsolved.
In an apparent about-face, the Philippine National Police are distancing themselves from Angeles. Col. Rudolpho Mendoza helped investigate the terrorist cell, "we donÕt believe that to be true. In the case of Terry Nichols and Ramzi Youssef doing some cooperationÉit is a big question." "
We may never know, but the materials and methods "smell" of Osama - the guy is a Civil Engineer by trade and thinks like one...
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 19:37:22
Posted by: Earthbound, Laughalot, IN
Hey, anybody wanna get a beer?
RibFest tomorrow! See everyone there!
La-a-a-a-ter, Keith
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 18:57:19
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Mr.Sam:
"Starr and his pitbulls spent millions trying to dig up dirt on those alleged abuses and got nowhere. The Starr Report couldn't even muster a weak "appearance of impropriety" clause with regards to these charges".
Don't you get it (or read my post)? Starr or more likely and preferably another special prosecutor was *not allowed* to investigate these other allegations by *Janet Reno* who threw her large shoulders and unstained blue dress as a block against justice...
Looks like W and Rumsfeld let another one slip away. JC Watts will resign leaving the Rs with NO African Americans in the House or Senate. Though Powerll and Rice are in high positions, that puts them in trouble.
The major problem with the Ds is that our natural leader John Kerry is getting minimal press time while Daschle just won't shut up...
Mr. Sam: Don't fool yourself: the Al Qaeda has unfiltrated us, and all we've given them is a Berekely-like loser and Geraldo Rivera (or at least we tried)
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 18:05:07
Posted by: W1P,
Indeed we do Sheep -- and its killer because our "Rog" delivers it with all the bitter vitriol the song deserves. I've been begging for the Nile Song for years -- aint gonna happen. We DO DO ECHOES and NEVER lose the crowd -- but the guys are woried about such things as Arnold Layne, See Emily Play and even Set the Controls. Anyway, can we focus this discussion back on politics? I'm tired of talking about music.
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 17:53:36
Posted by: Mister Sam, Woodstein!!! Get in Here!
Jebby: I here ya brother. Some new SD would definitely hit the spot right now. Wouldn't mind partying with the bare midrift section either. Them ladies is highly talented, and super-fine looking. I bet ya' that they really know how to party, too.
Bush, the Armageddon president? Know knows? Nostradamus spoke of a "politically dead" leader rising from the ashes, and then starting the war to end all wars. Perhaps, his crystal ball just needed a good polishing. A few finger and palm prints on the crystal, and, next thing you know, George W Bush is nearly indistinguishable from George HW Bush. Maybe the leader he spoke of wasn't politically dead, ... just brain dead.
One thing is for certain, though, Jebby. Ashcroft has got to go. The man is on some sort of twisted jihad, and seems bent on destroying the Civil Liberties that we've come to take for granted in this country. I didn't trust him prior to 9/11, and I trust him even less now.
We survived the first Trade Center attack and Oklahoma City without resorting to such drastic measures. So why the sudden need to suspend Habeus Corpus? While I can certainly get behind getting tough on foreign nationals who overstay their visas (by definition, they're here illegally, and they aren't US citizens), those two "American Talibans" are another story. No one's ever suggested that the first one had anything to do with terrorist activities, and the evidence against the second hasn't exactly been forthcoming. The announcement of Am.Taliban #2's arrest came two weeks after the fact, and seemed timed to deflect the growing wave of criticism against our intelligence community, and the Bush administration's failure to connect the dots. [BTW, did I mention that Bush was enjoying his third month of vacation at the ranch in Tejas when 9/11 occurred? That wouldn't necessarily be so bad, except for the fact that he had only been in office for a TOTAL OF 8 months at the time!]
Mu: An Al Qaida connection in Oklahoma City? Now your just being ridiculous. Seems to me like it exuded much more of a right-wing, paramilitary, talk radio hysterical paranoia, Waco wacko, disgruntled vet, Black UN Helicopter, New World Order angle to it than anything else. McVeigh was NOT an "American Taliban", and neither was Terry Nichols. Get real man!
Jebby: You're absolutely right. Sadly, the D's seem rudderless, too. Still can't believed that they rolled over so easily for GWB on that damned tax bill. Fuckin' pussies. Just as I thought we'd finally restored fiscal sanity to the country. Now this. If you ask me, it's a replay of the 1980s all over again. [The process: big tax cuts + no slowdown in federal spending ---> big deficits ----> high interest rates -----> low biz investment & high interest payments on the National Debt ----> slow or non-existent economic growth & a crappy job market (ie, another bigtime Republican recession.)] How depressing. Sometimes, I guess, ignorance really is bliss.
Mu: Thanks for the lesson in entymology. Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary, however, defines subversive slightly differently than you, however. Specifically, there's no mention of SECRECY in the definition of subversive. Here are the faithfully reproduced definitions for you to consider:
subvert, v.t. 1. to overthrow (something established or
existing). 2. to cause the downfall, ruin, or destruction of.
3. to undermine the principles of; corrupt.
subversive, adj. 1. tending to subvert; liable to cause
subversion. --n. 2. one who adopts subversive principles or
policies.
Sounds like it's quite possible then for one to be overtly subversive, doesn't it? And, seeking to overthrow or destroy the established order of things certainly sounds to me like a very political thing to do. Just ask Jesus Christ, Martin Luther, the Founding Fathers, Ghandi, MLK, or even Jerry Rubin about that.
So on this point, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I stand by my original statement about SD being overtly political. (Mind you, that's not the same thing as saying they are partisan. That is an altogether different issue, and one for which, I sadly, can offer no insight. Anybody?)
RE: Clinton. Mu, I don't profess to know much about state-level politics in Arkansas. In any event, I never claimed Clinton was a saint. He's a politician, and that, by the very nature of the beast, would seem to imply that he's got dirt under his fingernails. [What was that famous line about "behind every great fortune lies a great crime." Perhaps, a similar addage applies to those who achieve the ultimate power trip of becoming POTUSA!]
Still, I'd like to know more about your sources on the content of those "secret files." As David Brock points out in "Blinded By The Right," the Republican conspirators devised a well-oiled propaganda machine for "laundering unsubstantiated rumors," and turning them into so-called "reportable facts." The Washington Times (owned by Rev. Sun Yung Moon) has been a key player in this Goebels-like operation, so I'd be wary of any stories "attributable to unamed sources" that were "initially reported in the Washington Times."
Yes, I have heard the name Juanita Broderick (sic) before Mu, but, as far as I know, there is little or nothing in the PUBLIC RECORD to substantiate the rape allegations. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, mind you. It just means that it's requires a leap of faith to make any judgment one way or another. If she were to step forward, and face public scrutiny, perhaps I'd feel different. But, for now, I guess the phrase that leaps to mind is "presumed innocent until proven guilty." [BTW Mu, what's you're feeling on Clarence Thomas? (or Justice Long Dong Silver as I like to call him!) Should he be impeached, too? Seems clear to me that he probably lied under oath at his confirmation hearing, and that he was definitely guilty of sexual harassment.] With respect to Ms. Broderick, again, please feel free to cite PUBLICLY AVAILABLE references about the content in those "secret files."
Just so you know Mu, I, like many D's, lost an awful lot of respect for Clinton over the Lewinsky affair. I didn't believe there was anything impeachable in what he did, mind ya, but I did think it incredibly stupid/foolish/arrogant (pick your own adjective; many apply) for him to risk his presidency and the welfare of the country for the sake of a few tawdry orgasms with that husband-stealing strumpet. I mean, what the hell was he thinking? Was he even thinking at all? [Perhaps he just badly needed to knock off work early and go on one of them super-sized GWB ranch retreats?] Or, perhaps, the little head was doing the thinking for the big head? I expected him to excercise better judgment than that.
And, BTW, lest anyone get the wrong impression, I'm not contemptous of ALL Republicans. It's just the shamelessly sleazy, bomb-throwing hypocrital ones who hurl rocks from the stoops of their glass houses that I can't stand. Unfortunately, though, those pricks tend to dominate party policy. You know the usual suspects: DICK Armey, Newt Gingrich, John Ashcroft, Phil Graham, DICK Cheney, Jesse Helms, Dan Burton, Tom DeLay, Oral Hatch (errr, Orin), Ken Starr (a tobacco lobbyist & lawyer, in case you didn't know), Bob Dornan, Pat (the Fuhrer Man) Buchanan, Mitch (Sen. Campaign Finance Filibuster) McConnell, etc.
RE: Scandals involving White House coffees and the Lincoln Bedroom? Puh-lease! Gimme a break Mu. Nebulous allegations of this sort could be leveled at any president whoever played host to a friend, ally, or political contributor at the White House. For example, Dana Carvey once slept in the Lincoln Bedroom when Bush the Elder was president. If Dana perchance donated a few pesos to one of Bush's campaigns would that mean he "bought a night in the Lincoln Bedroom"? How about if Ralph Reed or Ken Lay or Arnold Swarzenegger swung over for coffee and cake at the White House? Starr and his pitbulls spent millions trying to dig up dirt on those alleged abuses and got nowhere. The Starr Report couldn't even muster a weak "appearance of impropriety" clause with regards to these charges.
RE: The fund-raising irregularities (ie, China, the Buddhist Temple, etc.) and some questionable pardons. Here, you may be onto something Mu. I would definitely agree that each of these exuded a foul whiff of impropriety. Like I said, Clinton ain't no saint. Then again, no president in my lifetime (save, perhaps Jimmy Carter) has come even remotely close to meeting the squeaky clean standard. Reagan, as I recall, earned $20 million for a couple of speeches in Japan only weeks after leaving office. Was that crooked? Clinton is doing the same now. Crooked? Alan Keyes, Pat Buchanan, and Jesse Jackson all made a cottage industry (and a family business) out of running for president and losing (badly, I might add.) Long ago, Congress even passed laws making it permissable for retiring incumbents to personally pocket up to $1 million in unspent funds from their campaign warchests. I hardly think it's a stretch to claim that this arrangement smacks of corruption. ["Hey, I hear that Senator X-man is going ready to retire at the end of this term. Perhaps, we ought to make a generous contribution to his campaign fund anyway. You know, just our way of saying, 'Thanks Senator, for everything you've done (and hopefully will do before you leave town.)'" Wink Wink Nod Nod!]
So what are we left with here. Money is indeed the mother's milk of politics, and, best I can tell, both parties are guilty as sin of "fracturing a few rules" and auctioning off their integrity in bits and pieces for campaign contributions. Perot made an issue of this in 1992 and 1996. McCain based his entire 2000 candidacy on the issue. So did Nader. In the end, I say you need to get rid of the system that breeds the corruption. Anything less is not a cure; it merely treats symptoms of the larger problem.
Since you imply that Clinton was guilty of criminal acts and, thus, deserving of getting the boot, though, I must ask which (if any) presidents had clean hands? Let's review, shall we? Jefferson had a bastard child with his slave Sally Hemmings. Lincoln suspended Habeus Corpus in the name of preserving the Union. Harding was asleep at the switch when the Teapot Dome Scandal erupted. FDR had an affair with his nurse. Eisenhower had an affair with his chauffeur. JFK stole the election in 1960. He also dated East German spies, Marilyn Monroe, and mob boss Sam Giancana's mistress. LBJ lied about the course of the war in Viet Nam. Nixon devised an enemies list and used the intelligence community to spy on Americans who weren't sympathetic to his policies. Oh yeah, he also had a little thing called Watergate and used the CIA to overthrew Allende in Chile. He also abused prescription pain killers and drank heavily in the Oval Office. Ford pardoned Nixon (the original Pardongate?) and participated in the Warren Commission coverup. Carter had Bert Lance. Reagan had Iran-Contra, the sham war in Grenada (which he launched less than 24 hours after the second bombing of our Marine barracks in Lebanon), and Debategate. Bush ran the CIA, his family had a longstanding business relationship with the BinLadens, and, as Veep, he oft seemed a little too cozy with the likes of Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega, and other thugs who were one-time America allies simply by virtue of being our enemy's-enemy. Clinton had Monicagate, Bhuddagate, and Pardongate. Little Bush has Floridagate, potential ties to the failed putsch in Venezuela, Enrongate, and God knows what else. There just doesn't seem to be any end to it, does there?
Wanna talk about a real scandal, though? How about Enron. Since you've elaborated on Clinton's sins, I think it only fair to lend a little perspective on those chum-like odors that have been drifting ashore from the Enron Valdeez. Trust me on this ladies and gents, we haven't heard the last word on this (especially, if the Dems recapture the House in the fall mid-term elections.)
To quickly review the essentials, Enron execs fraudulently pumped up the company's stock price to ever higher levels by aggressively hiding massive losses on the books of its off-shore "partnerships." These partnerships were little more than shell corporations (like those that Mafiosos and drug kingpins are famous for using to launder money.) Meanwhile, Kenny Boy (did I mention that he and GWB are/were buds?) continued to aggressively to sell Enron employees and the public on the wondrous investment potential associated with buying Enron stock, even as he and his cronies were preparing to abandon the sinking ship and cash in their chips.
And here's the really cynical aspect to the whole story; Lay and his buddies knew what was coming. Whistleblower Sherron Watkins (an Enron VP) told Lay and the Arthur Andersen auditors in no uncertain terms that the company was about "to implode in a wave of accounting scandals." They just didn't rightly give a damn about doing the right thing. Instead, they lied to employees and stockholders alike while scheming to optimize the timing of liquidating their own holdings in the company.
Anyhow, to make a long story short, a handful of Enron execs pocketed over $1 billion in profits from stock option sales just before the shit hit the proverbial fan. Ordinary stockholders were hung out to dry, and employees (most of whom were contractually blocked from selling the shares in their 401K's) watched as their hard-earned retirement dollars evaporated in a puff of smoke. Does that make YOU angry? It makes me livid. These white collar thugs need to do some serious jailtime, and I'm talking about the maximum-security prison variety. An accompanying wave of civil suits to turn these dark princes into paupers would also be poetically just. As a society, it's time we send the message that economic violence of this kind against ordinary folks is every bit as repugnant morally as assault, armed robbery, rape and murder. Perhaps we ought to institute the death penalty for "Corporate Fraud Kingpins"?
So where, you may ask, do Bush and the Republicans fit into Enron? To start with, high-profile Republican apparatchniks and talking heads like Ralph Reed and William Crystal have, for years, received tens of thousands of dollars annually from Enron for jetting to Houston a couple of times each year and informally chatting about current events with "Kenny Boy. [Enron calls them "consultants", but a description of what services they actually rendered hasn't been forthcoming. Can y'all say "bribe money"?]
Yes, the list of high-profile administration officials that have served Enron is long and disturbing. Lawrence Lindsey (Bush's chief economic advisor) once served as a consultant to Enron to the tune of $50,000/yr. RNC head Marc Racicot was a lobbyist for Enron. Bush's Secretary of the Army, Thomas White, served as an Enron VP until 2000, and then cashed in his Enron chips for a cool $100 million! I think that many reasonable people might be inclined to construe this arrangement as a little too cozy, and highly suspect (What's the Quid Pro Quo Kenneth?) As the old Watergate saying went, the salient question is "what did they know, and when did they know it?" Or perhaps, one might even reword that question to read, "what did they do (for Enron), when did they do it, and, more to the point, why did they do it?"
This, of course, leads us to GWB's own relationship with Enron. In case you hadn't heard, Enron has been Bush's largest single political contributor since his very first campaign. Clinton & Gore would have had to shakedown dozens of Buddhist temples to assemble the kind of cash we're talking about here folks! In 2000 alone, Lay and other Enron execs funneled $114,000 in donations to Bush's fall campaign, and another $200,000 to help pay for Bush's inaugural festivities. They also routinely lent the corporate jet to Bush for campaign stops. Pretty cozy, no?
Maybe there's nothing more than a very strong whif of impropriety here, but, then again, maybe there's much, much more. Once Bush became president, Enron miraculously got a seat at the table of those infamous "secret meetings" that Cheney held to formulate Bush's official energy policy. Hmmm? Sounds a little fishy to me. Whaddaya think folks? Before you answer, it might help to know that Enron stands to receive tax rebates in excess of $200 million from the wonderfully generous people at Bush-whack-em Central. Is that a mere coincidence, or was it a quid pro quo for past, present, and future services/payments rendered?
Then, of course, there's the shell game that Enron played played last summer with the state of California during the so-called Energy Crisis. Enron apparently made lots of phantom energy trades that bilked billions from California taxpayers. Did the administration have any inkling of this? If so, what did they do about it? The list of questions is long, but, so far, there have been very few answers. Sounds like it may be time for the appointment of a special counsel, no? As I said before, Democrats have been laying pretty low about the whole affair up until now. If historical trends hold for the upcoming midterm elections, though, look for the new House management to pursue these issues aggressively in 2003.
RE: Waco. Sorry Mu. We definitely disagree here. Koresh killed those people, not the government, and you'll never convince me otherwise. First, the Davidians were building an illegal arsenal of automatic weapons and explosives. They were preparing for Armageddon and all-out war with the US government (ie, "Babylon" in Koresh-speak.) Then they ruthlessly ambushed the federal marshalls who came to serve a warrant and investigate after a neighbor complained about automatic machine gun fire and other paramilitary activities going on at the compound. How many federal agents did the Davidians kill again? Four? Five? That alone made the adult Davidians murderers and undeserving of my sympathy. I don't care how Godly or pure they claimed to be. Their actions spoke otherwise. They were mentally unbalanced, violent criminals. Does it really matter that they might proclaim "Jesus loves you" as they prepared to gun you down?
In the end, the Davidians treated their own children as hostages and pawns in the whole mess. [BTW Mu, how would you have handled things differently if you were Att Gen?] Reno waited forty-something days before ordering troops to take the compound. Should she have waited 50 days? 60 days? 100 days? Indefinitely? What signal would that have sent to other nut cases with a touch of Millenium Madness?
Lets face it. Koresh could have done the right thing at any time and surrendured to authorities. He also could have released the children. He chose not to. He was determined to make his delusional prophecies about a final glorious battle engulfed in flames a reality. Worse, he was willing to take everybody down with him to make it happen. Ultimately he chose to immolate himself and his followers when the fed's patience finally wore out. Oh yeah, and he also "married" and fathered children with girls in his flock who were as young 13 and 14. I think they call that statutory rape. Why does that always conveniently escape the notice of our God fearing Waco critics?
Those are the facts Mu. End of story. [Sadly, it reminds me of the Jim Jones saga in Guiana from the late 1970s. (Wasn't he deemed an accessory to the murder of California Congressman Leo Ryan? Sorry, my facts are a bit sketchy on this one. I was in HS at the time, and wasn't in the habit of reading the "Daily News".) Anyhow, the feds were about to come and shut him down, too, so he convinced his followers to engage in a group suicide by drinking cyanide-laced koolade before the authorities could arrive and parade him before his followers in handcuffs and leg irons.]
RE: Elian Gonzalez. The photo was pretty scary to be sure. But, the fact remains that the father had rightful custody to his son, regardless of where the father lived. However well-meaning the aunt and uncle thought they might have been, they repeatedly defied a court order to surrender the child. Actions (especially, illegal ones) do have consequences you know. [BTW, I wonder if the public interest and scrutiny of this case would have been the same had Elian been Mexican, Columbian, or Haittian. What do you think? Personally, I think it was mostly a campaign issue for Republicans to get out the Cuban vote in southern Florida. Also, and this bugs me a good deal, who took that photo of the agent with the rifle in Elian's face, and how the hell did he/she gain such intimate access to the scene? Agents don't normally allow photographers to stand beside them as they issue warrants and break down doors. (Except, perhaps on Cops! "Bad boys, bad boys! Watcha gonna do!..." Need I say more?)]
In the Gonzalez and Waco incidents, the same lesson applies. If you defy the authorities long enough, their patience will eventually run out. I don't care if you're talking about city, county, state, or federal law enforcement. And, it doesn't matter whether R's or D's are in charge. These are not matters of politics. They are common sense applications of basic law enforcement principles. A Republican Attorney General would've act no differently. It's really a simple concept to grasp Mu. If you break the law, and are then foolish enough to try and force a stalemate with the authorities, you will eventually be confronted with overwhelming force. You are going to lose. Period. This is how the game's played, and it is that certainty which ultimately deters other such nuts from attempting the same foolishness.
RE: Robert Tamraz and Los Alamosgate. Sorry, not familiar with them. You'll have to enlighten me.
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 17:51:25
Posted by: jk, jk
hi guestbook people. you folks have gone wild lately. i have not been able to keep up. now for the music. your buddy dean parks seems like a lock for the upcoming graham nash tour. yea, i thought the same thing you are thinking right now. GRAHAM NASH!
But if you want to hear two of the finest guitar players in the world in one night. check it out. jeff pevar on guitar (brilliant soundscape artist), james raymond (very steely like theory at play with this lad) on keys kunkel on drums and the very fine larry klein on bass.
jk
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 15:07:30
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
Correction. 'Turn up the Eagles the neighbors are listening' is from "Everything you did". Sorry
Dennis
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 13:13:19
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Dennis: I'd agree with that list...except I would substitute Parks for Wadenius...
Royal Scam seemed to benefit more than the other albums from the latest re-master...
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 13:09:11
Posted by: DrMµ - hitting the softballs, Tejas
"How come Clinton has to answer as to who he has sex with?"
A. He was *in court* in a sexual harrassment case. A line of questioning is allowed under law that establishes a pattern of preying on other women as in other women who were sexually harrassed, raped, and finally sex with subordinates where there is a direct difference in power as in Miss Lewinsky...faculty who have sex with their students are often fired if not chastised. I knew a track coach of a national championship team who got caught doing the "high hurdles" with one of his female stars - GONE the next day, buddy...
" in the White House while Cheney doesn't have to say whether he was interacting and being influenced by someone who caused thousands to lose their life savings? "
A. While hearings have shown there is no evidence of Cheney conspiring to make a company go under (think about your illogical argument - why would anyone DO that, unless they are Martha Stewart and want to sell the stock short), Cheney SHOULD answer ANY questions that come his way. The Clintons were of course experts at obstruction of justice and witholding files for YEARS - the Cheney and Bush whining is pale in comparison and they have complied quickly under pressure (which is rightly so) to all supeonas
"Why does Gore have to say if he has smoked pot, but Bush doesn't have to answer if he has done cocaine, which is a much more sinister and addictive drug?"
A. In both cases, no one gives a rat's ass...pot should be decriminalized though it's not great for EEG waves (ex. Paul McCartney)
"I think 9/11 would have happened regardless if Bush or Gore were in. "
A. Yes, I agree. One can argue that the same can't be said of the predecessor Clinton who really didn't want to deal with it, except for one bombing mission that just happened to coincide with the impeachment trial where he erased an aspirin factory in the Sudan and a miss in Afghanistan...all this did was piss Osama off...I'd give Clinton a pass though if it weren't for the (a) Trade Center bombing of '93 organized by Al Qaeda and (b) potential link of Al Qaeda to the OKC bombing (Terry Nichols had visitied an Al Qaeda camp in the Phillipines and Al Qaeda have been recruiting right wing extremists for 10 years)...Having said that Osams and his gang are/were an extremely clever group. Now Clinton DID bomb Iraq every day (I have this on good authority from Air Force friends) - you decide whether that was a good idea or not. I would agree with your next thought that Bush 41 should have finished Saddam off while we had the opportunity...ironically Al Gore cast the deciding vote to proceed with the Gulf War in exchange for prime time air...
"Waiting a bit to take action in Afghanistan was the right thing to do. However, if Gore was in instead of Bush, Republicans would have been slamming Gore for not taking action on 9/12."
A. Some people were slamming Bush for the same thing...it would have been up to Gore to explain in the manner W did that's it's a whole new ballgame...a straw man argument
"And if it wasn't for Bush and Cheney's oil interests, we would hardly give a damn about the Jews, Christians and Islam fighting over the Holy Land Theme Park. "
A. That's a historically challenged statement. We've had major interests in the Middle East since even before 1947. Every single President from Truman to Eisenhower to JFK to LBJ to Nixon to Carter (remember the peace accords) to Reagan to Bush41 to Clinton to Bush43 have had great interest in the region. Israel is the only Democracy and the area has been unstable and a focus for Soviet and now Russian and Chinese interests. BTW, Israel, the West Bank and Jordan have NO oil!
It seems to me that Bush and Cheney would rather extract *domestic* petroleum and natural gas anyway!!!! (you can't have it both ways - find a gripe and stick with it). With any luck with new hydrogen fuel cell cars now being tested in Japan and the US, will allow a shift from gasoline wet biomass (like Donald Fagen's hydroponic plants) and you can cruise on your Trans-Island Skyway. Our reduced petroleum needs could then be easily filled domestically with a little help from Mexico and Russia...
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 12:53:43
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
All of the guitar parts on Haitian Divorce are great, great talk box and I love that line "turn up the Eagles the neighbors are listening" Royal Scam is the strongest overall SD album in my opinion. Every tune is great and the production is incredible but not too slick sounding. I think they were smart to get rid of Skunk Baxter and the "earlier" musicians and go with bad asses like Bernard Purdie, Chuck Rainey, Larry Carlton, Don Griffin etc. Particularly Skunk Baxter who did some OK things with Dan but plays sort of like a weeny on some of it IMHO. (Sorry Skunk) The best thing Skunk did was the Rikki solo. Of course Denny Dias (it's him on Haitian Divorce I believe) is all over the album too and he's one of the greatest Dan guitarists. Here's my Top 5 list of favorite Dan guitarists live or studio:
1. Larry Carlton
2. Denny Dias
3. Walter Becker
4. Drew Zingg
5. George Wadenius
Anyone got an opinion on this? If I wanted to hear about politics I'd go home and watch CNN where I can learn to make my own dirty bomb. Come on people.
Dennis
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 11:44:42
Posted by: Jeb,
I suppose it goes without saying but not drinking is a lot cooler than drinking amstel.
I just drink for the beneficial health aspects.
JEB
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 11:38:45
Posted by: Sean, Quincy, Mass.
Dennis. That's a good attitude. A lot of people really do try to drag others down with them. At the same time, by responding in kind to such people just feeds it. I'd rather find the humor in what people say. Laughing at the frozen rain, as the Dan might say and someone else brought up. That's a bonus. That said, I think Boops, Jeb, and the like are funny whether they intend it or not. I see the potential for more than a few Steely Dan lyrics in their posts. That's what I've liked about their posts in the past week or two. That's why I think I like this place more lately.
Stevee. Apology accepted. See above point. As for whether I am Jewish or not, I am simply Sean. I don't identify with all the archaic fighting and rituals. As for your Who Review, glad you had a good time. But as a gentle reminder, myself and some others choose to come here for a reason. I don't like some of the people on the yellow pages. So I choose not to go there. While you mean well, telling me to go check out your review on the yellow pages is like a friend telling me to go call my ex-girlfriend to get find out how the show was. Just tell us here or don't bring up that it appears elsewhere. What did they say about Entwistle? How did they tribute him? Who sang Boris the Spider?
The Bush debate in a nutshell for me:
How come Clinton has to answer as to who he has sex with in the White House while Cheney doesn't have to say whether he was interacting and being influenced by someone who caused thousands to lose their life savings? Why does Gore have to say if he has smoked pot, but Bush doesn't have to answer if he has done cocaine, which is a much more sinister and addictive drug? I think 9/11 would have happened regardless if Bush or Gore were in. Waiting a bit to take action in Afghanistan was the right thing to do. However, if Gore was in instead of Bush, Republicans would have been slamming Gore for not taking action on 9/12. My point is this. Supporters of Bush have a major, major double standard. And if it wasn't for Bush and Cheney's oil interests, we would hardly give a damn about the Jews, Christians and Islam fighting over the Holy Land Theme Park. Maybe we'd be hoping Six Flags would take it over.
So Earl and friends, succinctly answer my questions in the previous paragraph. No one will answer them.
Fezo. I agree that if the Clintons and Gores had the same history that the Bushs do, the media and Republicans would be all over them. Their stuff is comparable to Chappaquidick. But not sure I like how you stated it. It's like the judge who struck down "under God" in the pledge. I think he's right, but how he handled it will have the net result of conservatives getting their way even more with this issue.
Two other points: My body won't let me do pot but I think it should be legalized and taken out of the underground retail culture of Cocaine, etc. Jailing patients who find pot relieves their pain is insane. We can't legalize pot yet my Grannny is a Vicodin addict? I don't get it. Please explain someone.
Where in the Consitution does it say we have to be divided into Republicans and Democrats? Where does it say we have to be loyal to these parties? Why can't people just vote case by case on what's right? Being loyal to the Democratic or Republican party is NOT being loyal to the USA. Period.
Not related to Steely Dan you say? It is related to their subversive spirit.
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 11:36:40
Posted by: Jeb bush for president 2008,
Ooh so much rabble here to rouse and so little time.
Steverino - if you guys play sam, I'll take a flight from idaho to see yas.
Ok, Oh learned ones out there, give us a quicky on on dvd, dvda, and sony super a or whatever. can we get a machine what'll play them all?
JEB
Oh sorry, earl needs SD content: I really like the guitar solo on haitian devorce.
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 11:06:07
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
fezo: It is probably the equivalent of the DVD version of 7 Worlds Collide. I recommend that over the CD version, having both. The DVD concernt you *really* want from Neil Finn is the West 57th Sessions - spectacular acoustics, sound and performance! His new one, One All is also highly remommended...
Earl: That reminds me - for pennies more get one with DVD-A. Two Against Nature in DVD-A in unbelievable!!!!! The drums sound really wet and there's great channel and spatial separation...
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 11:01:40
Posted by: Dennis, Chicago
Stevee,
Keep doing your thing! There will be a lot of people that you will bring joy to. I have seen it first hand. There are a lot more people who will appreciate it than will not. I have not had one negative experience playing in Katy Lied with the audience members(DAN fans). The nay-sayers, well I say fuck them. 90 percent of my musical life is spent writing my own songs and finding my own voice/sound on the guitar, I have an original band, my bass player and I write the music, and I also write on my own. I do the Dan band because it's challenging and it keeps me working in a healthy environment. There are more positives than negatives to it. Some people are just so miserable that they have to be negative towards others. I would much rather enjoy my life and be positive every minute of it! Keep it up Stevee and have fun on your first gig. I'm sure the people who come to see it will!
Dennis
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 10:19:41
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
I thought we were going to lay off the political crap.
Mr Sam: I'm not trying to "control" the politics of the board. This whole thread began as a debate about the merits of Christian rock. I take some blame for turning it into a political melee, but we SHOULD stay away from non-Dan related political talk. Why? Because people believe too fervently in their political views. We all love Steely Dan, thus that's why we're here. But we all have different thoughts on politics, and it doesn't help that many of us would stick our neck out over and over again to argue our points. In other words, we just create a mess by talking about it. I was equally participatory in the conversation, so I am as much to blame as anyone. But it should stop, not because it's not an interesting conversation piece, but because it's bad for the group.
I'm not trying to censor, I'm trying to be practical. If some people on here want to start a messageboard about politics, I'm all for it. I'd be happy to join in on the discussion. But it truly is a waste of time on this board. You are not going to convince me of what you believe, and vice versa. You would be better served going to a school and trying to indoctrinate the impressionable youths of this country than try to influence your fellow Dan fans (not to mention, I think we are some of the most stubborn people out there, as well as the most overly-critical).
Jeb: This is a Steely Dan board...could you please talk about Steely Dan for a change? I have yet to see you post anything to make be believe you are anything but a rabblerouser.
It's amazing the difference between the Hi-Fi tape that I got for Christmas last year and the tape I made of the show on PBS. I can't wait until I get a DVD player and get the DVD version, I'm sure it will be even that much better.
Earl
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 09:28:01
Posted by: fezo, haze
Good lord, Mu, let it go man. You sound like a friggin broken record with your repeated litany of allegations against the Clintons. yet despite their evilness, and year after year of taxpayer funded Republican witchhunts, never even an indictment, much less a conviction.
Unlike the sainted Bush and Cheney (which the media never finds time to mention). Between 'em, five convictions. Three for DUI's. Once a menace to society, always a menace to society. And didn't Laura mow somebody down in a car once?
On a musical note, Mu, DirectTV's free concert this month is Neil Finn and Friends. Haven't seen it yet but I'm assuming it's the same shows as the CD was taken from.
Nice review of the Who show, Stevie. Glad to hear they can still play. Not that I had my doubts. Of all the acts at the post 9/11 concert at (Madison Square Garden ?), I thought they were the strongest.
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 07:43:31
Posted by: norm,
That last bit about doing Sheep wasn't meeant as a set-up for a really lame and obvious joke. But if someone really has their heart set on it, it's there for the taking.
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 07:38:49
Posted by: norm,
Stevee - how did they get 75,000 people into the Hollywood Bowl? Three to a seat, maybe? Well, never mind that. Good action on scoring a ticket, though. Hope your friend gets better, though.
W1P - I see. So I guess calling out for St. Tropez won't do a whole lot of good, huh? I can understand not wanting to do Echoes, though, simply because it would take up such a huge chunk in the set. It's probably best to stick with what you figure will be more familiar to the audience.
But there could be a few to slip in every now and again that wouldn't take a lot of work to polish up, provided everyone's into it. The Nile Song would make a good four-minute rocker. PF did Astronomy Domine and One Of These Days at the Rose Bowl, and those shouldn't be hard to figure out. The crowd went apeshit when they did both songs, so apparently they aren't THAT obscure).
And Childhood's End has a very "Floydian" feel to it, which a lot of that earlier stuff doesn't. It would fit in just fine with stuff from Animals. Which reminds me: do you ever do Sheep?
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 05:03:56
Posted by: Steveedan, Just returned from the Hollywood Bowl
I just got back from the Who concert at the Hollywood Bowl. I am posting a review of it over on the yellow pages, if any of you are interested (these are the kinds of topics I am more interested in on music guestbooks ...). 3 words: It was great.
Hi Citizen Steely Sam (aka Mister Sam)
When I mentioned to Sean that he is completely Jewish, it only had to do with ... well, you know what I wrote. Again, this is according to Jewish law and tradition. Not with me or my opinion. Just to set the record straight, you Sam are not Jewish if your Mother isn't Jewish. And no, I find absolutely nothing wrong with that, and if you choose to observe certain (or any) Jewish holidays, I think that is great. And (again) no, you won't be getting any invitations to pray (or prey) at my house, but then again, nobody else will because, I am not that religious a Jew. I don't spend a lot of time at the Synagogue, but I too observe a few of the (bigger) Jewish holidays. If I pray to anything, it's my son. What I really mean is, he gets all of my attention when I am not working or playing music. Didn't Groucho also say, that he'd take a club and hit you (I mean someone, NOT YOU SAM) over the head with it?
I recognize that some people do not care about tribute (a.k.a. cover) bands. There is stuff that I don't care for, but I rarely comment about it. I have never seen anyone speak disparangingly about Katy Lied, so I have to assume that because of my (um, err ...) writing style that I have attracted some ire, and why not slight the cover band musician ... after all, he must not be very good if he is playing someone else's music ... and all that.
As for my (at my own admission) fierce attacks on Clas, I do admit and realize that I should just ignore this fool. Sometimes though, I find myself unable to follow my own advice, and I just want to tear him a new (Cl)asshole. I know it's not good. Neither is littering.
I am aware that this behaviour tends to erode my more civilized posts, and I assume if you are aware of my assault-posts, then you are also aware of my music theory discussions, and other things that I write about.
I must now tell you that I very much appreciate your willingness to apologize even though you don't think that you did anything wrong (which I can certainly concede that you probably did not), so I thank you. It means alot.
Here's the thing: even though my Pretzel Logic band is a cover band, we are covering STEELY DAN. This is complex music. It is challenging and engrossing. We have an 11 piece band. Nearly half of the band make their living as career musicians. This is fun for us, but it is serious fun and it truly is hard work. Just like everyone else who comes around Hoops' and St. Al's sites, we too are Dan fanatics. Because we are musicians, we have chosen this cover band venture as an outlet for entertainment and maybe (we hope) a little bit of pocket cash too.
Is that bad? or wrong? Some people prefer sailing. or Stamp collecting.
Sam, that was quite a long post you wrote, but I did take the time to read it, even though I am not that inclined to join into a political discussion. I do read and try to understand the position being expressed, and then decide where I might stand on the issue, but I rarely post about politics ... except on the Pledge of Allegience vs. the athiest thing where things got a little hot for me ...
My point is that I do respect what others write here. I just don't like personal attacks. Maybe I am too sensitive. I will try to curtail that as best I can. Thanks for reading this.
---------
Hi Jebby -
I don't drink. Maybe 3 or 4 times a year. I used to love to smoke pot daily - 29 years worth, but I quit that over 19 months ago, and I haven't smoked even a single hit since. There ya go.
I thank you, but I already have the lyrics to Mr. Sam. I like that tune too, and will eventually write a chord chart for it.
A cover band (also referred to as a tribute band) plays the music of one famous band at a performance. It's not the same as a top 40 band, where the band plays the music of various other bands. Some tribute bands are more into the "theatrics" than others. My band doesn't dress up to look like Fagen or Becker, or one of their sidemen (and women), but there is a Led Zeppelin band where the band members do look a lot like the originals complete with hair, mannerisms, and costumes. That's a good short discription of what a cover band is. I hope that this is helpful to those who might not have known about this
Thank you for (if you did) reading this. I hope it wasn't too boring.
Steveedan
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 03:52:21
Posted by: Double Felix, Sky
The good news is that all of you will be dead before your worst fears come true.
The bad news is that your kids will still be alive.
Notice how unhuman these despot CEO's look? I'd say inhuman but that would give monsters a bad name. Too bad the market still responds to men from mars. Their exchange crashed a long time ago.
Hey, has Vinny Vestaboolie posted recently? He owes me a sacred cubit.
Really,
Felix
Date: Tues, July 02, 2002, 00:36:23
Posted by: jebby,
Sam my man. You are right, I AM one funny phuck. Sorry to steal your name there. I'm just trying to keep it light here.
Now that Earl and Mean old daddy have started their own guestbook, we can breath again. Man, if I could only type tons of stuff like your cool stuff we could have a go. i get tired with the two finger method. The problem is - I don't think I have much more to say in the matter of steely Dan.
I dig em
I want the new CD and anything else they got cooking
i wanna take the midruff section to binky's place (sing along: just the four of us, we can make it if we try, just four of us, yous and I)
i want to get better versions of mega shine city, take my money- leave my heart, and hole in the middle.
I want to find a nice facility for the facilitator in his golden years.
A tour.
Thats it. Then it is just natural to start talking about what else is on your mind. My guess is that there are real bad times ahead so go and enjoy everything you cherish about what we have and rail against those who are bringing us down. Hey you can be a republican ( i personally can't fathom why you would) but don't go blindly down in to hell in lock step with George bush. He is not a republican. He is an evil bastard bent on bringing on the holy war. WAKE UP. He is an extremist nut job surrounded by certifiable warpos!
I mean his daughters drink Bud! jeeeez. Even steeveeee drinks Amstel.
Hey the Dems aren't much better. Cowardly wimps!
Once I get parole I may run myself.
Anyone wants to post the lyrics to SAm - thats cool. some of em are tough and steveee needs em for his cover band.
Ever notice a lot of non musicians don't know what a cover is?
Jebbbbbbby
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 23:30:22
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
Mr. Sam:
overt: [from the French ouvrir which means to open] def: open to view
subversive: def 1: systematic attempt to undermine...a political system working SECRETLY within the country involved
I have to agree with your grandfather and a good bit with you about Clinton. He was an extraordinarily talented polititian, but corruption, misuse of power destroyed his legacy. I voted for Clinton in the Fall of '92 as H. Bush imposed new taxes, looked at his watch, and took his hand off the economic rudder to play some golf...sure, he had a thyroid problem, but he still lost his lunch in Japan and seemed not to want to stay in office, but rather to fish and play golf. Clinton's New Covenant speeches in '91 and '92 were impressive.
The etiology of Clinton's corruption and misuse of power IMHO came from (a) a sense of entitlement he and Hillary share and (b) growing politically in the corrupt state of Arkansas. Like Louisiana, the governor is King and there is little shared power (I lived in Louisiana for a few bizarro years and have some family in Arkansas). Underhanded wheeling and dealing and stealing are ways of life there. It is not a coincidence that this form of government, a large welfare state, and cronyisms goes hand in hand with 2 of the poorest and most crime-ridden states of the country...
While the sexual harrassment case filed by Paula Jones and her attoruneys should have waited until Clinton left office, the fact of the matter is that it did not and Clinton lied under oath to poison a sexual harrasment case. Many Republicans off the record want absolutely no part of the impeachment trial, and Democrats were disgusted after looking through the "secret" files not outlined in the Starr report. They described the testimony of Juanita Broadrrick the nurse he raped in the 70s. Unbelieveably, there is a statute of limitation on rape...
More importantly from a political standpoint, the poisoning of the sexual harrassment case clouded the real political crimes: campaign contributions funneled from the Chinese military, Buddhagate, While House coffees, Lincoln bedroomgate, Robert Tamraz and Johnie Chung (I saw enough on C-Span late at night with my colicy young-uns to impeach 10 Presidents), 900 FBI files on Congressional leaders, aides, etc. in White House hands (remember Charles Colson went to jail for just ONE), Los Alamosgate, and to top it off Pardongate. Remember, that Reno refused to appoint a special prosecutor for these crimes that have contributed to the situation we are in now...Instead, she allowed the dull-witted bloodhound Starr to pursue the harrasment trial perjury case instead, and stuck to pulling AK-47s on Cuban boy immigrants (probably the most appalling picture of misjudgment of domestic power I've seen since the Kent State killings or Waco)
That's about all I want to say on this board about this matter and I've said way too much on the other...Hoops, I'll go for a yuck next time...
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 22:16:21
Posted by: Citizen Steely Sam (aka Mister Sam), Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave
Earl: No one is asking you to leave. There is more than enough room at the table for all of us here. But it is disingenuous of you to hurl political barbs at others, and then call for an immediate cessation of debate after you've said your piece. I may not agree with some of the things you say, but I will always defend your right to express your opinion. That's called freedom of speech, and I hold the Bill of Rights dear. Consistent with this principle, though, I also feel it is my right to say so when I detect the strong scent of bullshit emanating from this or any other forum. I just won't be shouted down, or shamed into submission. Got it?
Sean: Like you, I'm also half-Jewish. I teeter back and forth between agnosticism and deism. Unlike you, though, I observe a few carefully chosen Jewish holidays as a way of celebrating that part of my heritage. To each his own, though, I say. (America. Whadda country!) It saddens me to say, though, Sean that it's my dad who's Jewish, not my mom. Thus, I guess I won't be getting any invitations to pray at Stevee's house of worship with you anytime soon, huh? (Never you mind, though, Stevee. I really don't mind. As Groucho Marx once said, "I wouldn't want to be part of any club that would have me as a member.")
Stevee Dee: I take exception to your characterization of my statement about promoting tribute band gigs on this board as a personal attack on you or any other musician. It was nothing of the kind, and I think my words spoke for themselves. Me thinks you are either being much too sensitive, or trying to divert attention away from yourself. (I've read some of your expletive-laden assaults on Clas in the Yellow Book, so don't try to play Boyscout with me. I know better.) Anyway, I'm more than comfortable with letting people make their own judgment about whether I attacked you or not. If it helps at all, though, I'm sorry that you were offended by whatever it is that you think I said or implied.
SAM I AIN'T: "You're a funny guy!!!" (PS- I like the song, too.)
Dr. Mu: Perhaps "I'm just a little fucked up in the head," [two Goodfellas references in one post!!! :-) ] but you'll have to explain to me why being subversive and being "overtly political" are mutually exclusive and inconsistent with one another. Seems to me that publicly visible anarchists, subversives, apoliticos, and revolutionaries are every bit as political in their own way as actively engaged Republicans, Democrats, Greens, and Independents.
BTW Mu, I, like you, am a registered Democrat with fiscal conservative and social libertarian leanings. (As I said before Earl, I'm not a "liberal.") I also agree with your general characterization of Clinton as a conservative in liberal clothing. (I can still hear my dearly departed grandfather, a lifelong New Yorker and liberal Jewish Democrat proclaiming about Clinton with no small amount of displeasure and exasperation, "My God, he's not a Democrat; he's a Republican!")
Those of you who take exception to the content and subject matter of my posts probably have two valid questions. First, you might rightly be asking, why do I persist in talking politics on a music board? And, second, why do I have such a bug up my ass about today's Republican Party? Fair enough. Let answer you then.
The answer to the first question is easy: D+W are MIA these days, and there's no tribute band in my region of the country. I wish it were otherwise on both scores, but it is not.
When I first broached the subject, there was precious little material being posted to the Blue Book, and that which was posted didn't particularly interest me. So, why not stir the pot a bit I say? Who may I ask is really being harmed? And, besides, I might ask, why the hell shouldn't we talk politics? Is it a sin to do so? I've always found Steely Dan fans to be a rather well-informed and cerebral lot, and value their feedback. Could it be that my major sin here is offending members of Bush's base who want us to all act like docile sheep, and keep our mouths shut? It is, afterall, an election year folks. Some of us happen to think of Steely Dan as a thinkin' man's band, and actually do pay attention to what's going on in the sphere of public affairs.
[BTW, if you don't like the tune I'm playin', then, for Chrissakes, just grab the scroll bar, and tune into a different frequency (ie, skip past my post.) It's as simple as that. It's not like I'm holding a gun to your head and making you read this now, am I? If you do want to engage me, though, be advised that I do play hardball. I seldom get personal, but I do reserve the right to question the strength, accuracy, and consistency of your arguments. Sorry, but that's just the way that it is. I make no apologies on that score.]
The answer to the second question is a little more complicated, but I'll take a stab at it anyway. First, like Bill Maher (I miss PI, too, Hoops) I don't think that the Republican Party is run by true conservatives. The current RNC leadership displays an unhealthy disrespect for the sanctity of civil liberties, tends to be xenophobic, and is much too cozy with the Christian fundamentalist movement for my blood. Furthermore, way too many of them talk a good game about fiscal restraint, but yet waddle up to feed at the public trough with every bit as much zeal as liberal Democrats. Their spending priorities differ mind you (ie, military hardware, religious school vouchers, and corporate welfare for Republican "conservatives" versus middle class entitlement programs and infrastructural investment for the liberals), but both groups are equally as profligate and wasteful with taxpayer money.
More fundamentally, though, I guess what bugs me most about the Republican Party's national leadership is the total disrespect that they displayed towards President Clinton. As president, Clinton repeatedly extended the olive branch to those twits. He unflinchingly took heat from liberal Democrats while forging alliances with Republicans on conservative issues like NAFTA, welfare reform, government downsizing, crime prevention, and balancing the budget. In public speeches, he delivered a gracious eulogy about Dick Nixon's appropriate place in presidential history, and repeatedly said kind words about the public service of ex-Presidents Reagan and Bush the Elder. Finally, he strove to include Republican viewpoints in his cabinet and inner circle [eg, Sen. William Cohen (R-ME) served as his Sec. of Defense, and long-time Republican apparatchnik David Gergin served in his inner circle of advisors.]
On balance, the facts are quite clear. Clinton left the country in the most solid economic condition that we've seen in 30 years, while doing more to further the agenda of fiscal conservatism than Reagan and Bush the Elder combined. He also showed a lot of political courage in publicly breaking with the base of his party on many issues as a matter of principle. [Ask Bush the Elder about the perils and potential consequences of daring to clash with your political base on a matter of principal.]
On foreign policy, he brokered nearly miraculous peace deals in Israel-Palestine-Jordan, Northern Ireland, and the former Yugoslavian republics. He also dared to take action in Yugoslavia (with precious little loss of American lives) to end the on-going and senseless bloodshed. It didn't earn him lots of PR points at home, but it was the right thing to do. [Republicans, characteristically, withheld support, and distanced themselves from involvement in Yugoslavia as much and as fast as possible.] He also managed to hold Saddam's feet to the fire without destroying our tenuous relationships with more moderate regimes in the Arab world, and avoided embroiling the US in a bloody, protracted, and ill-advised war to overthrow him.
Given this incredible record of accomplishment, conciliation, and even-handedness, what may I ask, did conservatives find so detestable about Clinton (other than that he was a gifted, hard-working, charismatic, and incredibly sucessful DEMOCRATIC president?) If he had been a Republican, Lott and Hastert would be championing the immediate building monuments to him as I speak. My guess is that they feared Clinton and the legacy that he was busy building. They just couldn't bear the notion that the public might justly reward Democrats with stewardship of the White House for another 8 years, and quickly relegate the Republicans back to minority party status.
So, instead of showing Clinton his due respect and acknowledging that he was a Democrat that they could work with, the RNC leadership persistently threw as much mud at him as they could in the vain hope that something (pray anything!) would stick. The pattern was persistent and obvious. Everytime Clinton started establishing forward momentum, Melon Scaife's and Starr's "rat fuckers" stoked the fires of their propaganda machine in an attempt to distract him AND the public. Finally, after a six-year and several million dollar witch hunt (financed partly at taxpayer expense, I might add), they finally entrapped him into a lie about a blow job in a case of dubious merit. (Lest we forget, Paula Jones's original attorneys dropped her as a client because they had misgivings about the merit of her case.)
Then the Republican leadership dragged the country kicking and screaming through full-blown impeachment proceedings for only the second time in our history.* In the end, the "high crimes and misdemeanors" standard applied to Clinton's impeachment ultimately came down to a question of whether:
(1) questions about a past consensual (and, yes, adulterous) sexual relation was even material in a sexual harrassment lawsuit. [Oh yeah, and don't forget that the judge threw out the Paula Jones case before it even went to trial],
AND
(2) if lieing under oath is grounds to remove a duly elected official (ie, "POLITICIAN") from office. [If so, heaven help us. Virtually every public official takes an oath of office, and most testify before Congress under oath at some time. Did we really want to set truthfulness as the litmus test for removing officeholder. In hindsight, it seems like this would have been an especially bad time to start swearing in 535 new members of Congress, 50 new governors, a new president, etc.]
Oh yeah, and then there was also that little to do about a disputed election in Florida 20 months ago. I'll be happy to keep folks posted on the progress of those 3 Justice Dept. lawsuits against counties in Florida for Civil Rights abuses during the 2000 election. Sadly, though, Republicans were neither conciliatory or even remotely humble about the dubious course of events that have made GW, at best, an "accidental president."
So now, after forcing Democrats to stomach all that nonsense for eight years, we are faced with an Administration that tries to label any questioning of their decisions or their policies as unpatriotic and subversive acts. Even here, on a music board, of all places, there is a not-so-subtle attempt to mute any criticisms of "King George II."
So what, I ask, gives these jokers the unmitigated audacity to scream foul every time someone contradicts Dubbaya (as in Dee-Dubbaya-Eye?), or questions his political judgment? Well, I'm sorry fellas, but all I can say to that is, what goes around comes around. The "War on Terrorism" is beginning to sound like a convenient excuse to scuttle all forms of dissent, and I, for one, just ain't buyin' into it. Dubbaya is not beyond reproach, and it is perfectly legitimate for me to point that out in a public forum.
So, my fellow Dan fans, treat my posts as you will. That is your right. (Lord knows, most of the public doesn't read anymore anyway, so what do I care?) Some of you will read what I have to say with an open mind. Others will feel a burning sensation in their ears. And still others will tune out out of boredom or disinterest. That is fine with me. The world's a big place, and I'm not especially eager to repeat Clinton's folly of trying to be all things to all people.
But, to my fellow Republicans in DanLand, I leave you with this. Don't believe for a second that a little public pouting or venting of frustration on your part over your inability to CONTROL the content of this forum will succeed in stifling expressions of opinion which you don't like, don't agree with, or don't want to hear. Hell, non-Republicans (that is how Will Rogers characterized Democrats) have politely tolerated the continual blathering of idiots like Pat Robertson, Pat Buchanan, Robert Novak, George Will, G. Gordon Liddy, and Rush Limbaugh for years. (Remember the "America Held Hostage, Day blah blah blah" crap that Rush "How Low Can You Go?" Limbo started on day one of the Clinton presidency?) So why, my Republican Dansters, I ask, should the rules of engagement be any different when an obvious target like Dubbaya occupies the Oval Office? At long last, have you no decency sirs?!
Sincerely,
Citizen Steely Sam
PS - If you want to talk about something else folks, then do so. Nobody's standing in your way. All I ask is equal access to the medium.
*As students of US history might recall, 1867 was the only other time a president was impeached. A scant seven years earlier, the Republicans had become the majority party for the first time in their history. Anyhow, two years into Andrew Johnson's presidency (a Dem from TN and Lincoln's 2nd VP), the Republican leadership got into a pissing contest with him over the proper course of Reconstruction, and impeached him because Johnson asserted the right to fire his very own Secretary of Defense (they called the post Secretary of War back then.) Same shit, different era. Give Republicans power when a Democrat is in the White House, and they instantly seek to abuse that power.
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 22:14:57
Posted by: heymike, here at the western world
Hey hoops. lots of interesting reading on here.
regarding 'xrt I agree with you. they have changed since being sold. one of the last ind. station to make the jump. they try to stay true to themselves during non rush hour times. during rush hours they play too much Moby, trey Anastasio, and they must all cringe playing smashmouth. Youll here a Kid Char or Royal Scam from Skafish during the day. I agree they didnt give SD their props especially during Emmy time. for outside Chgo, this stations personnel has changed little during the last 25 years. As radio goes these days, xrt has to be one of the best. Rosemary Clooney---some ties to the Dan I'm sure!
Ill be at Ribfest Wed for Katy Lied!
HeyMike
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 18:03:03
Posted by: DrMµ, Tejas
SAM I AINT: Mr. Sam, the song shoulda been a keeper. It's very bouncy and weird...great stuff!
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 15:29:26
Posted by: Steveedan,
Earl - you sound like the voice of reason. Don't leave.
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 15:19:43
Posted by: Earl, Delaware
I tend to agree that politics don't belong here.
I don't appreciate Master Tool's email address, especially when he obviously doesn't have the balls to post his true identity.
Hoops, why is it that you speak up when political discussion takes place, but you don't say anything when people get bashed? I subscribed to your mailing list for a number of years, and recently have participated in this guestbook. I guess that you people don't want my patronage. The music listens the same whether I have discussion about it or not. I thought that we were doing each other favors; instead, a couple of bad apples spoil the bushel.
I may stick up for Bush a bit, but I've never said he's beyond criticism. It's just cheap to start bashing people instead of making points. It makes people want to leave. I have to think about it.
If it distresses the "good members" (i.e. the liberal thinkers) that I am a Republican, I'll make it easy on them.
Earl
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 15:13:31
Posted by: SAM I AINT,
HEY MR SAM I AM A BIG FAN OF MR SAM.
WHAT A FUCKING TOP NOTCH TUNE WITH DONALD SINGING LIKE A CRAZED BANCHEE. THESE GUYS SHOULD NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PICKING WHICH SONGS ARE RELEASED. I SHOULD. HEY BOYS SEND ALL YOUR TUNES TO ME RIGHT NOW.
I MEAN - MR SAM - GODDAM!!!
CRYIN PLEASE!!!!
-NO SAM
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 14:37:35
Posted by: Big Fan, East of Hollywood
How about thisquote from the San Francisco paper:
"Consider that, if you want to move here for the bohemianism, whether you're a fan of Steely Dan, the musical group, or Steely Dan, the sexual aid."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/06/30/MN197886.DTL
You find refrences to the Dan in the strangest of places.
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 14:20:37
Posted by: Steveedan, the one, the only, In a much better place
First, a couple of corrections, which are also apologies ...
Sean - you are a class act. I mistook you for a Bush-whacker. Sorry. My mistake. Your advice, cool. Thanks. And on a Jewish note ...
Since your Mother is Jewish (mazel tov), you are completely Jewish. I am not refering to how you choose to live your life, but, rather by Jewish law and tradition, if the Mother is Jewish, the child is Jewish.
Hoops - Big apology. BIG. I thought that you were not allowing me to volley back the barbs chucked in my direction. You were simply trying to stop me from making the mistake that I made with Sean. Thanks. Also, prior to this morning, I didn't have your phone number. Now that I have it, I will give you a call and we can talk about more interesting things. Sorry for the bore, I guess I was denied my right to voice an opinion about the Pledge of Allegience. Isn't that impinging upon my civil rights?
And to Master Tool - that's a really strange name. I have a great offer for you slick ... why don't you listen to the track before you render an uninformed opinion ... it sounds to me like the DOA plastic tag is already around your toe, Freak. By the way, I would like 10 sets of those knives, but I am going to return them all to you via airmail, if you get my drift. You look tired. Time for your nap.
Don't forget ... Save the Date ... The Debut Performance of Pretzel Logic Band ... just (north)west of Hollywood ... Thursday, July 11th 8 PM at Paladino's in Tarzana, CA, on the corner of Reseda Blvd. and Topham St., one block north of Oxnard St.
If any of you are traveling more than 1000 miles to see us, I will pay for your admission and a couple rounds of drinks. We promise not to disappoint.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussions ...
Steveedan (F, BL, MD, & KM for Pretzel Logic - A Steely Dan Revue)
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 13:41:54
Posted by: DrMµ, carressing the posies
Mr. Sam: I have to humbly disagree that the Dan were overtly political. They were subversive and importantly IRONIC...
I'm a registered Dem, but consider myself independent with fiscal conservative and social libertarian leanings...given the current geopolitical situation, I find 2 enormous ironies:
(1) in the whole range of ideologies worldwide, I find really very little difference unfortunately between our two major parties today besides rhetoric...the parting on the left IS the parting on the right...
Case in Point which is irony number...
(2) While Clinton shouid have kept his pants zipped and W should sometimes keep his mouth zipped, they use exactly the same polotical strategy: TRIANGULATION...the art of stealing planks of the opposing party's platform, perfected by evil genius Dick (hey, at least I paid my hooker) Morris:
(a) Clinton talked Left, but signed Bills that were Right of center (ex. welfare reform) thereby neutering Newt...
(b) W talks Right, but signs Bills that are Left of center (education reform, campaign reform) thereby making Daschle just look irascible...
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 12:29:52
Posted by: W1P, Los Angeles
Sadly, Which One's Pink? tends to focus its set list on the so-called "Big 4" (Dark Side, WYWH, Animals, The Wall). Several folks associated with the band lobby continously for inclusion of more "obscure" material. We regularly play Echoes from Meddle. We have, in the past, played Fat Old Sun (from Atom Heart Mother), Free Four (from Obscured by Clouds), Your Possible Pasts (The Final Cut) and Coming Back to Life (from Momentary). Our 7/13 show will include If from Atom Heart Mother. Other than that, its basically the Big 4 -- which in some ways includes obscure material in the sense of how often do you get to hear Dogs on the radio? Anyway, I'd like to hear the band add such tracks as Arnold Layne, See Emily Play, Interstellar Overdrive, Let There Be More Light, Corporal Clegg, Point Me At the Sky, Childhood's End and even Sorrow and Not Now John -- but all that takes rehearsal time, the guys in the band are worried that the AOR audience wont have enough patience for the material, yaddda, yadda, yadda.
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 11:49:21
Posted by: Sean,
Steve,
Regarding the erroneous accusations and assumptions in your posts and the E-mail you sent to Hoops:
1. I only post as myself and include my E-mail address in most every post. I don't post as JB or Jeb Bush. I've never posted annouymously. No, I never wrote the porkchop remark. (Geez, am I really writing this?)
2. I was sincerely pointing out in my post yesterday that the more you cry about the bullies, the more they like to pick on you. Maybe you can't control the bullies but you can control your reaction. Right, advice not asked for, but I thought it might help you cope. Wrong.
3. My mother is Jewish meaning I'm half Jewish, although I sure don't practice or obvserve most practices. I consider myself agnostic. If you got a problem with that, please tell my mother. I sure don't want to hear about it but don't accuse me of anti-Semitism.
4. Check out the new liner notes to the 1999 CD of Aja and you know that Becker and Fagen are loopy, funny, irreverent fux. Yes, the top-notch musicianship is part of it, but the insanity, not unlike what's been here as of late, is very much in their spirit too, probably loosens them up to make their music. These are people who tell funny songs about crooks, hookers, loosers and child pornographers. There are no sacred cows, yet, when they slay a cow, or tell jokes about cover bands or even about Hoops, they're only kidding. Lighten up or you'll have coronary. What's more you could have fun too.
Respectfully submitted,
Sean Ambler
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 11:14:24
Posted by: hoops,
The post Stevee made yesterday, seemed like he was swinging at the wrong person, Sean. So I emailed Stevee my phone number so he could call me and make sure he got the facts of his post right. The person he swung at actually is pretty nice to this place. It would be bad if he was insulting the wrong person, especially if they helped us, right? Plus Stevee would an opportunity to reconsider insulting this guy. If I was mistaken, I would certainly make sure his post was put back up there.
Instead of waiting to discuss and clarify, Stevee gets on and insults me too. I don't think I deserved that.
My apologies to everyone else. I won't do it again.
h
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 10:41:36
Posted by: Jeff Beck, Chicago
Boops,
I would like to know if you play in a band or play an instrument? Have any talent? Have you ever been to the Apollo? I wonder what would happen if Steely Dan played the Apollo? They're not African American Boops. Go post your negativity someonewhere else or better yet, keep it to yourself.
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 06:37:10
Posted by: norm,
Peg - according to http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?eminence%20grise
émi·nence grise
Etymology: French, literally, gray eminence, nickname of Pčre Joseph (Franēois du Tremblay) died 1638 French monk and diplomat, confidant of Cardinal Richelieu who was known as Éminence Rouge red eminence; from the colors of their respective habits
Date: 1925
: a confidential agent; especially : one exercising unsuspected or unofficial power
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 04:34:10
Posted by: The Master Tool, A wholly-owned subsidiary of Night By Night Industries
ATTENTION CARNIVORES EVERYWHERE!
Are you tired of dull, boring knives with no edginess? Then despair no more!
As our tribute to the world's greatest knife, the Ginsu, we here at the Christian Coalition Culinary Corporation proudly offer "The Steely Steak Knives!"
See for yourself! Watch as this Steely Steak Knife stabs and slices its way through this rusty tin can. Then listen to your entire family squeal with delight as the Steely Steak Knives ensemble with the various forks, sporks, and spoons in your kitchen drawers on an eerily mediocre rendition of Charlie Freak!
These wonderful, surgical-quality instruments are guaranteed to cut through all the bullshit that lesser tools are afraid to tackle. And, for much less than you'd ordinarily expect to pay.
Act now, and this set of 18 Steely Knives can be yours at the amazingly low price of $19.95* (plus S&H.)
But wait! If you act right now, we'll even send you a copy of the Steely Knives bar band compilation CD absolutely free! That's right. This attractively packaged CD contains two whole Steely Dan covers and 16 tunes of dubious quality from artists you've never heard of.
But wait! There's more! If you buy (into it) right now, we'll also send you, absolutely free, an eternity of sanitized, wholly-PC, and Christian Coalition-approved Blue Book postings from some of the world's most overly-sensitive, non-controversial, and mind-numbingly boring whiners!
So don't delay. Act today!!
*Please note that quantities are limited (unless we miraculously sell more than 100 copies, in which case, we'll make more.) CCCC reserves the right to limit order quantities to 100 copies per customer. (Yea, like that's ever gonna happen.)
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 04:33:39
Posted by: The Master Tool, A wholly-owned subsidiary of Night By Night Industries
ATTENTION CARNIVORES EVERYWHERE!
Are you tired of dull, boring knive with no edginess? Then despair no more!
As our tribute to the world's greatest knife, the Ginsu, we here at the Christian Coalition Culinary Corporation proudly offer "The Steely Steak Knives!"
See for yourself! Watch as this Steely Steak Knife stabs and slices its way through this rusty tin can. Then listen to your entire family squeal with delight as the Steely Steak Knives ensemble with the various forks, sporks, and spoons in your kitchen drawers on an eerily mediocre rendition of Charlie Freak!
These wonderful, surgical-quality instruments are guaranteed to cut through all the bullshit that lesser tools are afraid to tackle. And, for much less than you'd ordinarily expect to pay.
Act now, and this set of 18 Steely Knives can be yours at the amazingly low price of $19.95* (plus S&H.)
But wait! If you act right now, we'll even send you a copy of the Steely Knives bar band compilation CD absolutely free! That's right. This attractively packaged CD contains two whole Steely Dan covers and 16 tunes of dubious quality from artists you've never heard of.
But wait! There's more! If you buy (into it) right now, we'll also send you, absolutely free, an eternity of sanitized, wholly-PC, and Christian Coalition-approved Blue Book postings from some of the world's most overly-sensitive, non-controversial, and mind-numbingly boring whiners!
So don't delay. Act today!!
*Please note that quantities are limited (unless we miraculously sell more than 100 copies, in which case, we'll make more.) CCCC reserves the right to limit order quantities to 100 copies per customer. (Yea, like that's ever gonna happen.)
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 03:33:34
Posted by: norm,
....hey, how did I get dragged back into this? No matter, glad to do my bit....
Regarding recent post about Rolling Stones: Sir, I couldn't have said it better myself. It's all down to one song played over and over and over again for forty years, and it's a lame song to begin with. Not that I wish death upon any of them, but really, it's the only way those guys are going to stop once and for all. (Actually, it's entirely possible that some of them already ARE dead. Amazing what modern science can achieve, especially when there's millions to be made and a large entourage waiting to get paid.....)
So this is their "farewell tour" - where have we heard THAT one before? But even if the Who are past their sell-by date, at least they have more than one song in their repetoire, and for the most part those songs are really good.
.......Joe Walsh? Well, if Ozzy Osbourne can become the TV-sitcom dad for the new milenium, why not "The Walshes"?
W1P: Have you heard those Zabriskie Point outtakes floatng around lately? Great stuff. It's been said often that Pink Floyd are actually four different bands: The Syd Barrett Group, The Roger Waters Quartet, The Dave Gilmour Trio, and that post-Syd/pre-DSOTM era where they were basically a nice psychedelic folk gruup. That's my favorite Floyd stuff; Meddle and Obscured By Clouds have always been my favorites of theirs. Does your band ever pull out some of that material?
Anyway, back to Steely Dan...
I finally picked up The Nightfly this year - don't know what took me so long - and it's good, but I don't understand why so many people love it but think Kamakiriad is inferior. Maybe it will just take some time to grow on me. I know Kamakiriad didn't win me over the first time I heard it, but now I love it. It's a great album for driving along the coast. On The Dunes, Florida Room, Trans-Island Skyway and Tomorrow's Girls are my faves, and the rest ain't too shabby neither. Now one of these days I need to get Walter's album to complete my collection.....
Date: Mon, July 01, 2002, 01:05:40
Posted by: Steveedan, From Hoop's Cutting Room Floor
Testing one, two, three ... is this thing on?
since my last post directed at Sean was deleted, I am not sure if this one will get through (Hi Jim, how's your weekend going?).
Discussing religion or politics on a Steely Dan board is pointless. I find it totally inappropriate to start to attack people personally about their beliefs. I don't care what the reason is ... it's wrong. I attack people for their attacks not their beliefs.
I don't want anyone to get "excited" about my cover band from 3000 miles away. In fact, if you came all that way to see my band, I would be impressed, but wondering why you would do that? To make a statement like that is a personal attack, but not one that requires armour (maybe a raincoat ...). I am not planning to come to Chicago to see Katy Lied, but I do post in support of them. It's more positive than what I have seen coming my way. By the way, if you think that I am blowing smoke up your skirts, check out the new compilation CD "Steely Knives" my band covers Babylon Sisters. Check it out and see if it deserves any praise (for what it is - as faithful a reproduction as we could muster) in your opinion.
Someone told me today that the idea of 72 virgins turns heaven into a whore house. Controversial? Probably, but I didn't make this up, someone else, a devout scholar of religious study, did.
So all those who want to take pot shots at me please go ahead, since it appears to be for the benefitand entertainment of the majority here. I should be easy prey because Hoops has both of my hands tied behind my back. (Oops, I went too far with that last one, probably going to end up where I started ...)
I guess I'll have to spend more time with Norm de Plume.
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