AUGUST - DECEMBER 2007 BlueBook Entries

Date: Mon, December 31, 2007, 23:40:58 ET
Posted by: alan & jeri, Waikiki, HI

Well the end of another year is fast approaching and we are probably in the last place on earth to bring in 2008.

We are about to head off to an old crime scene for some of us here ,
The Banyan Tree Bar for some libations and celebrations.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ONE AND ALL !!!!!

Oh yeah, on the Steely side of things, United Airlines had Josie in rotation on on XM46 on the flight over here from Denver.

Way to go United !!!

Date: Mon, December 31, 2007, 19:39:36 ET
Posted by: FZ,

Yes indeed
Here we are... *nearly New Year 2008 Dandom!*

At st. alphonzo's pancake breakfast
Where i stole the margarine
And wheedled on the bingo cards
In lieu of the latrine

I saw a handsome parish lady
Make her entrance like a queen
While she was totally in chenille
And her old man was a marine

As she abused the sausage pattie
And said, "why don't you treat me mean?"
At st. alphonzo's pancake breakfast
Where i stole the margarine
(st. alfonzo
St. alfonzo
St. alfonzo
St. alfonzo)

Date: Mon, December 31, 2007, 17:07:40 ET
Posted by: Hugh, london

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specifications,compression check,radiator,starting system,stearing...

Date: Mon, December 31, 2007, 16:51:31 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, that ditch out in the valley

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22451155/

Not really Dan related, but I thought this article was interesting. My additions to this would also include words such as "gynormous", "amaaazinnnng" and cutesy name abbreviations and/or combinations (you know, JLo, TomKat). Yuck. Where has the English language gone?


G


I would add, "on the ground", "signature this and signature that" and the over used phrase "as well" and my favorite - beginning a sentence with "as well"!


Happy New Year as well.

Date: Mon, December 31, 2007, 13:54:40 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo - steamier and stormier!

It's already nearly 3am on Tuesday 1st January 2008, here on longitude 115 degrees East. So all that remains to say, before I hit the sack, is HAPPY NEW YEAR DANDOM! May Don and Walt reign forever!

Peace to all,

Ann

Date: Mon, December 31, 2007, 13:45:56 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo - steamy and stormy!

Date: Mon, December 31, 2007, 11:41:05 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, sweeping the playroom

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22451155/

Not really Dan related, but I thought this article was interesting. My additions to this would also include words such as "gynormous", "amaaazinnnng" and cutesy name abbreviations and/or combinations (you know, JLo, TomKat). Yuck. Where has the English language gone?


G

Date: Mon, December 31, 2007, 01:38:07 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

You don't think the song would sound better if that glorified click track were replaced by a Chris Parker run? Who's the one that needs the ear doctor?

It's my favorite song on the "extras" disc, and one of my top-5 favorite solo Don stuff, but that fake drum track is just ... pointless.

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 22:50:50 ET
Posted by: Dayglow Freak,

Ha - "It just means "Big Noise" will always sound like a demo (click track) to me"

I know a good ear doctor. He's great at getting crap out of his patients ears! Let me know if you want his number.

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 22:11:40 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St Augustine Beach

Ha, I agree with your assessment of many (most?) of the "extras" from those albums, but I always felt that, to some degree, that's why those songs didn't make the cut. They sound like demos to me, as well.

But, nothing in the Dan's "official" repertoire sounds particularly dated to me, and that includes Kamakiriad and Gaucho, IMO the two weakest albums of the collective Danesque works, IMO. By no means to I consider either of those albums "weak", just a tad below the level of the other works. And I'm not counting Walter's first as, while I like it a lot, it isn't produced in the Steely-Dan style.

TvN still sounds as fresh, to me.

Anyway, it is good to hear rumblings of a new one on the way...someday.

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 20:41:06 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

Dean -- sometimes what seems right for the artists at the time doesn't exactly lend itself to timelessness. Sadly, the drum machine work on Don's solo work (the "extras" disc, mostly), WB's album, TvN, and others date the work quite a bit. Doesn't mean the whole song, or album, is dated. It just means "Big Noise" will always sound like a demo (click track) to me, "Rhymes" could be an 11ToW outtake, and "Down In the Bottom" is pure late 80s/90s brain-rattling fake snare.

In light of what we've heard on EMG and Morph, I'm glad they've come around. I wish they would have done it sooner. I don't know how you thought that what I wrote applied to anything more than what I was discussing: fake drums.

Don and Walt are often too insecure and too secure for their own good. Insecure enough to rely on machines to get every beat correct, too secure to admit defeat when the finished product has a sound that was obviously created in a computer chip.

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 20:02:04 ET
Posted by: my $0.02, the chair

If there was an issue with fake drums on latter-day releases, EMG and Morph weren't the answer. Whatever you want to call it, bring it back I say.

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 12:12:06 ET
Posted by: Jerome Aniton, driving school

this is the correct link:

http://radiodupree.blogspot.com/2007/12/2008-its-official.html


nothing much, just notes the change in the SD home page.

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 11:40:23 ET
Posted by: Fife, Baltimore, eh

Gretchen tried the address you pasted. It just says paged not found.
What did it say exactly? Just curious!
Fife

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 10:32:45 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St Augustine Beach

Daddy G, interesting finds, I'd say.

What's very odd, IMO , is this:

The other day I saw the following article:

http://www.thedailypage.com/daily/article.php?article=17872

In this article the author writes about some of his favorite discs of 2007. It includes this blurb:

"6. The Selfish Gene -- The Grand Masquerade
This glossy prog-rock throwback sounds a little like a lot of album-oriented 70's bands (for me, it's Steely Dan), but originality makes those references illusive. Grand Masquerade is a grand accomplishment all its own."

I checked out a couple of their tunes, and it wasn't happening for me...at least not right off the bat. But, is that reference, and the registration to a Walter Becker, simply coincidence?

It certainly might be, as the Richard Dawkins book, The Selfish Gene, sounds like something that could be right up Walter's alley.

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 10:08:07 ET
Posted by: Mark&Marie, NJ

Yes, the Fagen Box set DOES have the Century's End Music Video - big haired 80s women with shoulder padded blouses and all

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 10:06:14 ET
Posted by: Mark&Marie, NJ

What's official?

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 10:05:40 ET
Posted by: Mr B Natural,

Hey, does anybody who got the DF box set know if it has the "Century's End" music video? I saw that on YouTube recently and loved it.

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 09:41:21 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, with my tea and the Times

http://radiodupree.blogspot.com/2007/12/2008-its-official.htmlhttp://radiodupree.blogspot.com/2007/12/2008-its-official.html

It's official?


G

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 02:54:08 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., tinyurl US copyright page link expired

As I suspected that tinyurl link I gave for my US copyright page search results (like other link variations I tried) has expired. Folks'll have to do their own search query from scratch via...

http://cocatalog.loc.gov/

Choose "Search by name" and "Search for: Becker Walter", then click the "Begin Search" button. After that be sure to "Sort Results" by "Date (descending)" and the most recent stuff will then appear at the head of the list.

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 01:30:24 ET
Posted by: Q, ANALOG

Mr. Roboto, your description of analog vs digital is the most elegant and accurate that I have ever read on the topic.
Kudos!

I wrote the 200gram Aja & Gaucho vs 180 Aja post- yes, I agree the 180 gram sounds to my ear to have too much mid, and the bass isn't anchored enough. To answer your quesion, "Glamour Profession", yes the 200gram Aja has sonic characteristics that would seem to suit your taste as you express it briefly and implicitly in your post.
The 200gram Aja sound is generally original mix, but with far better soundstage, powerful and extended bass, and articulated mids.

Gadd's drums are amazing as never before! Essentially, no fooling around here, just the same as the original, but far better production values and materials, ie vinyl quality, thus much quieter, dramatically reduced resonance from the disc because of the 200 grams, and reduced modulation all the way around, and more dynamic range across the range. NO hype, just solid and original.

Buy it! Remember, the 180 grams are all over the street - Only 1000 of the 200gram Ajas and Gauchos were ever made, and that is and will be it. They will disappear soon to the surprise and chagrin of many people.

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 01:15:07 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

This won't do a new search, but it should show the results of the search I did...

http://tinyurl.com/23ukbr

They are listed in descending chronological order first, alphabetical order by title second, and are all attributed to Walter Carl Becker & Larry Klein except for "Circus Monkey" which is attributed to >>only<< Walter Carl Becker and "The Happy Song" attributed to >>only<< Walter C. Becker.

Hmmm, Looking a little closer at the list... "Selfish Gene" has the same registration date, 5-4-2007, as all the others with the exception of "The Happy Song" which was registered 5-11-2007. For that reason I'm thinking now that maybe "Selfish Gene" is not new to the list after all, but perhaps was just inadvertently overlooked/omitted in the last digest.

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 00:37:02 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

Just to clarify a perhaps minor point...

"Selfish Gene," like most of the other tunes is attributed to Walter Carl Becker & Larry Klein.

Date: Sun, December 30, 2007, 00:34:23 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

Perhaps I'm mistaken or misunderstanding something, but there appears to be a new title listed at the US copyright site for Walter Carl Becker...

"Selfish Gene"



That would be in addition to the ones reported by Hoops in the last Dandom Digest as...

Walter Becker only:

- "The Happy Song" (actually attributed to Walter C. Becker if that means anything)
- "Circus Monkey"

Works by Walter Becker/Larry Klein, in alphabetical order:

- "Bob is Not Your Uncle Any More"
- "Downtown Canon"
- "Darkling Down"
- "Do You Remember the Name"
- "Door Number Two"
- "God's Eye View"
- "Paging Audrey"
- "Somebody's Saturday Night"
- "Three Picture Deal"
- "Upside Looking Down"

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 23:26:45 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

Here's an all-time great Walter bass line...the title track to Gaucho.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 22:33:44 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

Doctor Mu- We will have to agree to disagree on the Walter/Carlock groove...although I hear where your coming from on Things I Miss...It's probably too bouncy of a bass part for Carlock's straight ahead groove. That's where a guy like Anthony Jackson comes in. His style works best for straight grooves...ex Chaka Khan's Whatcha Gonna Do For Me.

Walter's playing on the rest of EMG is quite dead on! Ready Freddie never seems to loosen up on Morph and therefore leaving the flow of the tracks too stiff...in my opinion anyway. Carlock doesn't "bounce" or "swing" at all so the bass player must loosen up to liven the track...check out Lunch With Gina.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 21:46:33 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

Strange. I never mentioned Babylon Sistahs. There is very limited sequencing on that tune. It's there...but very, very little. Don't mess with Purdie!

Funny thing about Roger. When the re- re- remaster of Gaucho came out around 1999 or 2000, he mixed some of the tracks way too high and over-saturated vocals "shake it." I don't think W&D were impressed...Donald hasn't let Roger near their recordings since.

I beg to differ re: Morph, EMG, and Carlock. He and Walter sound out of sync sometimes (ex. Things I Miss the Most). Much prefer Readdie Freddie & Carlock who sounds great on Morph. Check out the rhythm section and Wayne Krantz on Brite Nitegown.

Parker's sequencing must be in the verses...that outtro is all him.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 20:56:48 ET
Posted by: Otto Rank,

Didn't you just feel DF's "writer's block" = "breakdown" coming on in 1982 because of his obsessiveness?

You can hear it - you can FEEL it.

And the greater question: why was he obsessed with creating perfect art? What was imperfect in him that he tried to retify through art?

He must have come to - HAD to come to - terms with it to get to where he is now.

Personally I think that's why he loves and needs Walter. Walter is not as potentially self-loathing/self-critical as DF.

Walt's always had the tough skin that DF hasn't.

Walt has had to have tough skin since his teens - not DF.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 20:50:23 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St Augustine Beach

Ha

Actually, I have far more than a passing knowledge of Don's work and understand what he has and hasn't used (for the most part, there are some here who clearly are geekier in their knowledge than I).

I see nothing from his remarks that suggests he is against all uses of bots, and/or that he has "come around". Fagen's use of bots, and other recording technology, has never dictated the way he made the music.

To the contrary, I think Fagen, and Becker, chose to use whatever they wanted to fit their vision of the music. While I love the direction they he decided to take on Morph and the Dan took on EMG (using one drummer and taking an analog approach to recording, etc) it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the boys used a bot, or took another direction at some point in the future...if it makes sense for the music.

What I'm pretty sure you won't see is the boys compromising on the sound (dynamic range, for example) because of the prevailing business approach of the labels.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 20:46:44 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

Sequencing is okay as long as EVERYTHING isn't sequenced into a big lump. For Glamour Profession it works...Anthony Jackson's power groove gives it bounce! Babylon Sisters is like nothing else on earth when it comes to groove...but if that's a sequence they are not just musicians, they are MAGICIANS. I've heard producers program shuffles in the past...sounds like crap. Pure Purdie!
Carlock sounds sequenced to me most of the time. I know this may upset some of you, but because Carlock's timing is so straight...he and Ready Freddie sound a tad sterile of groove. I think Walter's style matches Carlock's much better....or Tom Barney's. This is certainly no knock on Mr. Washington's ability...he is awesome...but I'm not diggin' the Washington/Carlock combo at this point.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 20:31:59 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

There are many ro-bots to embrace, and DF passed on embracing most of them. Anyone with anything more than a passing knowledge of DF's work would understand that, and I would hope that anyone here would give me the benefit of the doubt in assuming that I would know that.

The one ro-bot DF embraced more than any other is the sampled drum ro-bot, and I think it a shame. "Rhymes," already great, could be a hundred times better without that mess. "Big Noise" is the same way. All the sampled loops on "Nightfly" and "Kama," those are A+ albums that could take on "Aja"-levels if not for Wendel's mechanical arm.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 20:18:48 ET
Posted by: The Dean, St Augustine Beach

Ha-ha, what's ridiculous?

This was your comment:

"DF's comments in the RS piece are needed and perfect, but I didn't exactly see him throwing himself in front of the tank when "Kama," WB's first solo album, or "Big Noise, New York" came out. 70 percent of this guy's post-Aja work could have been bettered with the addition of real drums.

That said, I'm glad he's come around."

What do Donald's remarks in RS have to do with his use of sampled drums on some tracks? I don't see the connection, except for in your head.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 20:03:00 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

Mu - I don't think "Babylon Sisters" is sequenced, either.

If it sounds too perfect to be true, well, Pretty Purdie is often too perfect to be true.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 20:01:13 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

"I think people (HaHa for example) are twisting Donald's words in the RS article to suggest that Fagen is down on any music technology. I didn't get that at all."

What the hell are you on about? Couldn't be farther from the truth if you tried. Please don't try.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 19:41:54 ET
Posted by: kamakiriad drums,

Kamakiriad drummer Chris Parker and Roger Nichols were separately interviewed back when Kama came out. Chris Parker insisted what he heard on the final release was what he played in the studio. Roger Nichols, when told about Chris Parkers comments, laughed and said that it was Wendel using Parker's recorded sounds.

Don't know how many have been in recording sessions, but it's pretty difficult to get perfect tracks from even the best musicians. Listen to Steely demos and you can hear great drummers messing up.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 19:21:25 ET
Posted by: Brutus Charisma,

Doc Mu -

Are you implying that the drums on "Babylon Sisters" are sequenced/programmed?

If so, I don't think Pretty Purdie would agree.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 14:36:15 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

Butusus Charisma wrote:

"Wendel is NOT rife on "Gaucho" - NOT on the released LP/CD versions.
Only "TOOM" includes Wendel along w/ Rick Marotta on drums.It was used only as a "sequencing and special effects" tool - ditto for "Nightfly".

It is NOT used AT ALL on or "Kama".

"Countermoon" sounds rhythmically mechanical but that is Chris Parker on drums."

This is false. TWM and Gaucho are the only songs on Gaucho that were not heavily sequenced. It appears you don't understand what this means. Again, the drums are sampled [much like early synths for keyboards like the mellotron] and tweaked throughout the song. 15 secs of drumming can be expanded into a 5 min recording once the sounds Donald wants are found. Loudness, attack, "noise," frequency band-width are all tweaked...beats are filled in, recycled, and reused. I'm highly skeptical that much of the cymbal and hi-hat are real-time on Hey 19, Glamour Profession, My Rival, virtually all of Nightfly and much of Kama. The attack's not right.

Contrast the 15 sec snippet of the original 2nd A w/ Jeff Porcaro live and wet real-time with the Wendelized Gadd full demo

If you listen to Gaucho, Nightfly, and Kama on DVD-A it's really easy to hear the sequenced stuff. As obvious as plastic surgery.

Birth of the Cruel. Yeah, the RS snippet is pretty ironic. That's part of the reason Morph is so good. Carlock feels a lot more comfortable in the studio than on EMG...more like the live shows.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 13:18:01 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Chillin at the Manatee Bar

I think people (HaHa for example) are twisting Donald's words in the RS article to suggest that Fagen is down on any music technology. I didn't get that at all.

Of course the boys used WENDEL AND real drummers in some of their recordings. They have used digital recording and analog recording methods. They have recorded songs and albums many different ways, over the years. What they haven't done (and what Fagen seemed to be speaking against) is let the technology dictate what they do. They have used the technology (or not used it) as they saw fit, at the time.

The article mostly dealt with compression and the digitization of recordings so they would sound better (louder) on ipods, and the like. Donald said that despite (actually, due to) the increasing use of some technology music was actually sounding worse. He also expressed some disgust that the technology is dictating the way music is played.


I trust the boys to pick and choose what technology they implement and that they will control how it gets used. Not vice-versa.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 13:12:47 ET
Posted by: Brutus Charisma,

RE: "WENDELs rife on Gaucho, Nightfly, and Kamakiriad sampled drums and then Fagen tweaked the snare and cymbal sounds to death.

The title track on Gaucho is Porcaro's real-time drums. Gadd's real-time drums used on TWM. My Rival and Glamour Profession are WENDEL City.

Chris Parker is allowed to stretch out in On the Dunes. Significant drum machine use can be heard on Countermoon."


Doc Mu -

Wendel is NOT rife on "Gaucho" - NOT on the released LP/CD versions.
Only "TOOM" includes Wendel along w/ Rick Marotta on drums.It was used only as a "sequencing and special effects" tool - ditto for "Nightfly".


It is NOT used AT ALL on or "Kama".

"Countermoon" sounds rhythmically mechanical but that is Chris Parker on drums.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 12:31:30 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

WENDELs rife on Gaucho, Nightfly, and Kamakiriad sampled drums and then Fagen tweaked the snare and cymbal sounds to death.

The title track on Gaucho is Porcaro's real-time drums. Gadd's real-time drums used on TWM. My Rival and Glamour Profession are WENDEL City.

Chris Parker is allowed to stretch out in On the Dunes. Significant drum machine use can be heard on Countermoon.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 12:05:40 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Well done, Mr Roboto. The music we are settling for nowadays is so horribly tweeked. And tweeked in a way that just smoothes everything over, a perfectly unnatural, unearthly and surficial scrape of the trowel over the stuff, the junk, the goo, the nasty plaster that leaves everything level and square in a way that nature does not exhibit in any form, flora or fauna, animal, vegitable or mineral. The alarming and disturbing part is that it is radically changing the way people experience music. Where's the nuance, the tender bits, the uneven incidental bits, the bravado juxtaposed to all of it? We need to allow the flaws to exist, the tempo irregularities, the uneven dynamics, the downright eggregiously blown clams. Yes, Donald did experiment with drum machines and such, BTW, I firmly believe Time Out of Mind is some sort of gizmo especially now that we've heard Keith a couple times around on it. But their return to analog on Everything Must Go is a strong statement as to where their proclivities lie. Sometimes you have to travel afar in order to find your way home.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 11:44:27 ET
Posted by: Glamour Profession,

I recently bought the 180 gr Aja, en de japanese 200 gr Gaucho. I really enjoy the Gauch very clear an nice, but the this Aja is kind of dissapointing. Very mid-sounding, en I miss some nice full bass in this version. Is the japanse version different enough to justify the costs?

For all you audiophiles.
The vinyl version of Morph is amazing.
I own the cd/ dvd-a version also, but the sound (bass) of this 180 gr pressing is out of this world.....

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 11:10:41 ET
Posted by: Mr. Roboto, Digital Land

Here is a graphic example which can clarify the digital vs. analog controversy, and why ANYTHING digital can only replicate, but never perfectly duplicate an analog wave, or sound, in the case of music.

To simplify, in the digital world, nothing is "curved", there are only straight lines. Anything you model or contruct MUST be built from increasingly short, straight lines that are are discontinuous. In the analog world there are curved, continuous sound waves. Ocean waves, as well as sound waves are smooth, continuous curves, for example. This is a very simple analogy, in reality things are much more complex, but it boils down to something like this:

Suppose you want to draw a perfect circle. You can take a pencil and without lifting it, draw the circle. In the Digital world, you only are allowed to make straight lines. But fear not, if you make a large number of short, angled, straight lines, (tangentially) around a certain point, you can draw a circle.

So using three lines, you make a triangle, then 4 makes a square, 8 makes an octagon. By this point (octagon) you can begin to see a CIRCLE being created, using short, straight lines. The more lines you use, the more "perfect" the circle. But it is NEVER as perfect as the continuous curve that you hand draw the circle. It will always, at a microscopic level be a series of BROKEN lines, and the edge of the circle will have little bumps in it, at the angle of where each line meets the next.

So when you have an analog sound wave in music, the sound engineers or "Digital Masterers" reconstruct the naturally curved sound waves that come from "real" instruments with a bunch of little broken. straight lines, until they get very close to, but NEVER get to the actual sound of that instrument (guitar, piano or whatever). The more time and cost that they put into it, the more little straight lines they use, the better the sound replication. At some point, though, they stop when they get "close enough". Otherwise the Fagen boxed set, and other recordings would have to cost $500-$600 from all of the straight lines that would have to be drawn, digitally.

Vinyl records are near-perfect replications because the grooves in them are much more close to the smooth waveform that was created by the original instrument than you can approximate with little digital straight lines. But vinyl scratches, warps, wears out, is more expensive to produce and cannot hold as much sound for its size.

Vinyl (near perfect) versus CD/DVD (cheaper, holds more material)is a tradeoff. And 99% of the people don't notice, so the record companies make money because the sound is close enough.

But now you know why digital approximations can only be "close enough", because a series of little, straight, broken lines are never as smooth, beautiful or exact as a continuous, curving shape or of an ocean or sound wave....

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 10:39:20 ET
Posted by: Brutus Charisma,

Ha-Ha -

RE: "70 percent of this guy's post-Aja work could have been bettered with the addition of real drums."

DF did, in fact, use real drums on all post-SD I material.

Maybe the drums on those tracks didn't sound "real" due to DF's insistence on acheiving "solid time".

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 09:53:13 ET
Posted by: try 200 gram issue!! - you may be surprised!!, the ethereal world that music takes me to........

While the 180gram Aja has been relentlessly hyped and hailed by the audiophile community because it was mastered by their annoited tube driven demigod Steve Hoffman, and having Elliott's involvement and then DFs "blessing",and sponsored by the big daddy in the audiophile vinyl market, Acoustic Sounds of Salinas,KS - there is a lesser known newly released 200gram version (of both Aja & Gaucho) -(only 1000 of these 200gram discs pressed by Universal of Japan) vs. no disclosure of manufacturing count on the 180gram, but I can tell you knowing the manufacturer of the 180- Acoustech - they will stamp as many as they can sell! - likely @5000 copies)) which is gaining swelling popularity (and remember only 1000 of the 200gram version, and that's it!) because it is not as tinkered with in it's remastering.
The 200gram was taked straight from the first genration master tapes just as the 180gram,but the 200 did not undergo all sorts of audio voodoo - they just left it the way it came off the master.
Interesting about all of these is that WB himself said that the master tapes had fatal damage to "Black Cow" and "Aja" itself, particularly. This may have only been one set of "early" generation masters( or it was, indeed, like THE first generation masters) he was referring to.

I have both the 200 and the 180 and each have their benefits, but if you have spent the jack for the high end hardware, you owe it to yourself to spend the extra $40 to have the 200gram too.
Basically the 180 sounds great, but tweaked - the 200 sounds "dryer", but more authentic as would any 70's record.
AS stated- each has their appeal and distinct merits.
And the vinyl is, oh, so quiet (200 even quieter than 180!).

PS Acoustech also did a 180gram reissue of Yes "Fragile" that is awesome. It has it's flaws as all audiophile re-issue verions do, but this is the only choice you have other than 30+ year old stock copies - and good luck finding a sealed (noise free) copy. Check it out! - also, they are already moving up in price(started at $40 from Acoustic Sounds - now are $50 for a sealed copy).

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 09:30:56 ET
Posted by: The Dean, Chillin at the Manatee Bar

I noticed Gretchen posted this link a couple of weeks ago, but I saw no discussion of the content:

http://noted.blogs.com/westcoastmusic/2007/12/steely-dan-a-ne.html

Donald is "back into songwriting mode". According to the blurb in the blog, "Steely Dan is setting its sights on a new album, followed by a summer 2008 tour". Also, Donald may take his band on a tour in the Fall of 2008.

Adjust all this to Steely Dan time, and we may see a new album from the boys in another couple of years...and that's good news. The tour is always welcome, of course(The Dan and/or Fagen's band).

Any of you connected Danians have any more info on this?

OK, at Daddy G's repeated insistence I checked out that cover of Dirty Work. Downright unlistenable, IMO. I don't think Kip feels the Dan, at all.

Happy Fucking New Year!

Finally, RIP Oscar Peterson. One of the greatest musicians of all time, IMO. Certainly among the most underrated. The world lost another good one.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 09:25:53 ET
Posted by: Newark, ear plugs

whoops, I hit Enter too many times as a result of a spaz attack catalyzed by Robot's black hole contribution. I almost fell in, but whoops, I hit "Enter" as the wrong command and low and behold, the post froze. At least I saved my precious energy for something more, say, a synergetic promise later this afternoon. Sorry Roboto, throw away all those new toys and unplug in real time. Nwk

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 09:11:03 ET
Posted by: Newark, Koss Headroom

You call this morning reading?

RE: Digital approximations . . . CAN very closely, but never perfectly approach the analog.

My reaction--cough, clear throat, "wha??" "ack ack" (almost spit out coffee)

RE: BUT it takes lots of time, effort and expertise and there is a point of diminishing monetary return for the effort.

My reaction--"What the hell is 'it'? blashphemy is just around the corner, I just know it, I just know it."


It sounds as though the digital sonic technology, the machines, are being bastardized for quick-buck, gimmicky recordings that the producers feel, and is probably true that the average Joe Blow is not going to care and will buy it nonetheless.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 09:11:03 ET
Posted by: Newark, Koss Headroom

You call this morning reading?

RE: Digital approximations . . . CAN very closely, but never perfectly approach the analog.

My reaction--cough, clear throat, "wha??" "ack ack" (almost spit out coffee)

RE: BUT it takes lots of time, effort and expertise and there is a point of diminishing monetary return for the effort.

My reaction--"What the hell is 'it'? blashphemy is just around the corner, I just know it, I just know it."


It sounds as though the digital sonic technology, the machines, are being bastardized for quick-buck, gimmicky recordings that the producers feel, and is probably true that the average Joe Blow is not going to care and will buy it nonetheless.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 09:11:02 ET
Posted by: Newark, Koss Headroom

You call this morning reading?

RE: Digital approximations . . . CAN very closely, but never perfectly approach the analog.

My reaction--cough, clear throat, "wha??" "ack ack" (almost spit out coffee)

RE: BUT it takes lots of time, effort and expertise and there is a point of diminishing monetary return for the effort.

My reaction--"What the hell is 'it'? blashphemy is just around the corner, I just know it, I just know it."


It sounds as though the digital sonic technology, the machines, are being bastardized for quick-buck, gimmicky recordings that the producers feel, and is probably true that the average Joe Blow is not going to care and will buy it nonetheless.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 06:29:41 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

DF's comments in the RS piece are needed and perfect, but I didn't exactly see him throwing himself in front of the tank when "Kama," WB's first solo album, or "Big Noise, New York" came out. 70 percent of this guy's post-Aja work could have been bettered with the addition of real drums.

That said, I'm glad he's come around.

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 03:36:54 ET
Posted by: suedave, home sweet home

There are times when I listen to a CD in the car and it doesn't move me, and put in on the home stereo and enjoy it tremendously. The car audio system is actually pretty good, the home stereo is just plain better. I'm more likely to enjoy an artist when I'm able to appreciate the full spectrum of music recorded. And listen up record companies - when I enjoy an artist I'm more likely to purchase their next CD. Even so, MP3s are incredibly convenient when traveling, or when traveling light.

My 20 year old integrated amp is starting to lose a channel and I've been amplifier shopping over the last few weeks. I only want two channel stereo with a big enough amp to drive some power hungry speakers. I can find what I need, but the choices are limited and the costs are outrageous! This tells me that what I seek is far from mainstream and far from mass produced. No shocker there, I s'pose. Might as well bring my Steely Dan CD's with me when I listen (and I do).

The last audio store I visited we veered off into turntable territory - there was one in the listening room that went for $15000 - no joke! I asked to hear it, and was disappointed with the speakers it was paired up with but may have had a different opinion if what they were spinning was the 180 gram Aja to provide some type of a reference.

So looking forward to more news on Walters' new one!

Date: Sat, December 29, 2007, 03:29:01 ET
Posted by: Rabze, OwRYtXuWjAZg

iJC0MS Hi Rabzebuddy! <a href="http://www.google.com/">Google</a>.

Date: Fri, December 28, 2007, 22:05:35 ET
Posted by: I'm Mr. Roboto, but I'm KILROY.......KILROY.....KILROY

RE: DF's comment that musicians now play as today's music "machines" dictate or constrain? them. Difficult to interpret this comment not knowing the context or body language DF employed at the time of the quote. It could be taken cynical or bitter; a casual observation or even wistful.

Or is that DF is "just growwwwing old"--draw that one out? Here is another way to look at the "technology" of sound and its continuing evolution.

From the time someone thought to stretch an amimal hide over wooden hoop or poke holes in a piece of bamboo, sonic instruments have been moving on. These instruments were quantum leaps in "technology", as much as synthesizers were in the 1960's. And the tastes of music have evolved (or devolved?) with the instruments. Synths created sounds that could not have been done with normal instruments. Mr. Roboto was one such song, circa late 1970's and was a massive pop hit. But at the end of the aong, it was if a monster was created and rages out of control.

If DF is cynical or disdainful about the new sonic machines, that is sweet irony since HE was the first to record, I believe Nightfly with some never-before used digital tech. He was an artist, a Pioneer and had the right dynamic for the New Frontier! Today, maybe DF sees what has happened since, with the technology "Morphing" into a misused monster that is constraining artists with the limitations of digital sonic approximations of the more true to form analog.

What Daddy G. is saying about these CDs clipping off and not picking up or effectively digitally approximating the original analog to an acceptable degree, and the creators of these CDs are not putting in the effort or time to do this, so they can get cheap copies out the door faster, well yeah, DF and Daddy G. are on the same "waveform".

But in the end, sonic technology will march on, even though the leaps, as Daddy G. says are not as great to piss away thousands for Hi Def, or having 10,000 unrelated songs on an iPod.

Digital approximations (of anything, and not just in music) CAN very closely, but never perfectly approach the analog. BUT it takes lots of time, effort and expertise and there is a point of diminishing monetary return for the effort. It sounds as though the digital sonic technology, the machines, are being bastardized for quick-buck, gimmicky recordings that the producers feel, and is probably true that the average Joe Blow is not going to care and will buy it nonetheless.

Those sorts of recording practices are the TRUE monster, or Robot not the technology itself and probably is from where DF might have been coming from with his comment.

Or DF's just growwwin old....

Date: Fri, December 28, 2007, 20:54:43 ET
Posted by: Fife, Baltimore, eh

Anyone up for a chat?

Date: Fri, December 28, 2007, 20:25:40 ET
Posted by: Jerome Aniton, driving school

don't miss out on a damn good thing....go to the Modern Drummer Readers Poll and cast a vote for Keith Carlock...and how about Bernard Purdie for the Hall of Fame!!!


http://www.moderndrummer.com/contest.php?id=800000033


you can tell your friends tomorrow...hell, you can tell them over there in Watts!!!

Date: Fri, December 28, 2007, 17:02:45 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

And Angel, When I played KP's "DW" for a friend who is not nearly as into SD as I am (though he knows "DW") he immediately commented about not liking KP's dragging out the vocal when he sings "I'm a foooooooooooollllll..." Personally I don't mind it when KP does it because it's such a different take to begin with. Sometimes I'm not all that crazy about it either when DF does it on some songs, but on the other hand I try to take it in the playful vein with which I think he presents it, just havin' a little vocal fun.

Date: Fri, December 28, 2007, 16:49:26 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

Angel and Bill,

No big deal or anything, but a further impression I have of Boardman doing Becker and Fagen's "Dirty Work" is that vocally (on that particular tune) he doesn't sound all that different from David Palmer in tone, just the faster tempo delivery of course with certain vocal adaptations or different word spacings to accommodate said tempo change. Or at least that's my opinion.

Date: Fri, December 28, 2007, 16:44:44 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

Nice to see that Rolling Stone piece shows exactly what I've noticed in doing the occasional odd custom CD compilation for myself using a generic wave file editor. Stuff from older CDs tends to have the proper range preserved, while certain newer ones have their wave forms flattened all the way to the top of the audio ceiling and down to the floor, so to speak, such that all you see is mostly a solid wave form with almost perfectly flat peaks and valleys.

I'll be honest in that it doesn't usually affect my enjoyment of the songs so long as I just play it at a lower volume setting than I play most other CDs. Perhaps if I actually had some musical talent or training I would be more apt to notice the lack of sonic detail.

I once did a compilation of train songs for myself and while I'm used to having to adjust the volume somewhat across songs from different sources, there was a Dwight Yoakam tune that had to be turned down to around 35% of the volume level it was recorded at to match up with other selected tunes from other CDs. The adjusted wave form was still flat top and bottom, but at least it was in line with the other songs so that it didn't blast me out of my chair upon transition.

If I play the DY source CD in its entirety I have to remember to first turn down the stereo volume way down before popping that bad boy in there. Otherwise palpitations are likely to ensue. I've sometimes wondered why this phenomenon seems to be occurring more and more. Now I know.

I just dislike it when certain folks say, "Well, >>>everyone's<<< doing things this way, so we have to adjust our practices to fit that model." Well, NOT everyone is downloading MP3s, nor does everyone have iPods or analogous MP3 players. >>>I<<< don't. I will sample stuff via the occasional freely available MP3 download (a la Kip Boardman) or Amazon clip, but otherwise I purchase CDs for long-term listneing pleasure. Granted they're mostly purchased pre-spun these days and at appropriate discount prices, but still...

And I don't really want to have to choose from among hundreds or even thousands of possible selections at a time. I can only listen to one song at a time anyway. Often, when I'm headed out to drive somewhere I like to just take a moment to think about what album or artist I might be in the mood to hear that day, then grab it and go. I like the concept of an album and hearing the songs in the same order as an entire body of work.

Then again, I've always lagged behind the technological curve all my life. Hi-Def TV is nice, but I find normal-def quite sufficient for my own tastes and needs. The jump from normal-def to hi-def isn't nearly as significant as the jump from B&W to color was, or prior to that the jump from radio to video broadcasts in the first place. Maybe when they perfect that 3D interactive holographic technology...

I'm sure I'm the one out of step with the world and not vice versa, but I've made peace with my curmudgeonliness.

Date: Fri, December 28, 2007, 16:37:55 ET
Posted by: George, in Paris

"Poor kid, he overdid, so righteous was his need."

Charlie Freak may not have committed suicide, but he wound up dead of his own design.

Date: Fri, December 28, 2007, 15:17:27 ET
Posted by: walt's Doppelgänger, pissed

Just say no to fukkkin mp3 ¿music? say donald

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/17777619/the_death_of_high_fidelity

Date: Fri, December 28, 2007, 15:14:30 ET
Posted by: BillfromPgh,

Kip Boardman's version of Dirty Work is very country, but the steel guitar sounds similar to what Skunk did on the 1974 tour (when Royce Jones sang it, as I recall). The bouncy bass line takes the most getting used to.

I remember hearing a nice version years ago by Ian Matthews. Too many firewalls here at work to track it down here but I'll check iTunes when I get home.

On another note, the Vanity Fair article does suggest doomed, paranoid SD characters, but without the humor that appears in even the darkest SD tunes. There's a lot of self-destructive behavior in the SD canon, but not sure if there is any actual suicide. Mona from Morph seems closest, but you hope she doesn't take the plunge.
Then again, there are the grey men who dive from the 14th floor, but they never seemed particularly real to me (I know, this sort of thing reportedly did happen in 1929).

Date: Fri, December 28, 2007, 14:39:06 ET
Posted by: angel,

Hey Daddy G!
Thanks for the link to Dirty Work. He does that Donald drawing out the sounds thing, that so drives me crazy when at a concert, but an interesting take on the song. :-)

Date: Fri, December 28, 2007, 14:31:54 ET
Posted by: Walt's Doppelgänger, too sexy for the room

"We're conforming to the way machines pay music. It's robots' choice. It used to be ladies' choice — now it's robots' choice."
— Donald Fagen, producer and Steely Dan frontman

Date: Fri, December 28, 2007, 12:55:35 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, <--

Groovy

Date: Fri, December 28, 2007, 09:12:49 ET
Posted by: God of Music, valhallah

TONIGHT!

Sounding BETTER THAN EVER! The Original Strawberry Alarm Clock at the Hollywood Knitting Factory. Complex harmonies, cool instrumentation and featuring Steve Bartek of Oingo Boingo.

Just go - you'll have a blast.

Also appearing Electric Prunes.

I guess its fruit night.

GOM

Date: Thurs, December 27, 2007, 22:34:02 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

It's a little complicated, but folks can hear the entire Boardman take on "Dirty Work" by visiting...

www.kipboardman.com

...and clicking "ENTER WEBSITE" which opens a new window. Then click the "MUSIC" link and under the "Hello, I Must Be..." album section click the "ALBUM DETAILS" button. At last you will see five tracks to choose from, including "Dirty Work." If you like that, then of course you can always check out the other four from the album there as well.

Date: Thurs, December 27, 2007, 22:22:03 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

Just thought I'd add the Amazon page for the Boardman CD in case anyone would prefer to check it out there or read different user reviews...

http://www.amazon.com/Hello-Must-Be-Kip-Boardman/dp/B000FEUQR8

Date: Thurs, December 27, 2007, 22:15:29 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

Back on Oct 26, I posted about having watched that night's "Men In Trees" episode and the fact that it opened with an up-tempo country-tinged cover of "Dirty Work." I inquired here to find out if anyone knew the artist and the name Kip Boardman soon bubbled to the surface.

Today I wandered into my local used CD shop, did my usual tiptoe through the country section and lo and behold all of a sudden there was Kip Boardman's "Hello, I Must Be..." for only $3. How could I pass that up? Just finished listening to it for the first time. Too early to form any absolute definite opinions, but I like it so far. It's mostly---though not all---light folksy countryish stuff, but that's alright by me. I think one could even make a case for it being a little Thomas Jefferson Kaye-ish. For whatever it's worth (practically nothing, I admit) I'd say it's worth a listen if anyone ever comes across it under similar circumstances. It's certainly not a case of there being "Dirty Work" and then nine other filler tracks.

BTW, the credits utilize the alternate DF spelling in attributing the song to "Becker/Fagan." And it was mixed at Studio Mesmer in ("the streets of") Culver City.

http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/7169770/a/Hello+I+Must+Be....htm

Date: Thurs, December 27, 2007, 15:34:21 ET
Posted by: Keeping an eye on scentences, Waiting in viking-land...

The news section over on steelydan.com:

"Becker's second solo CD will be announced by year's end. More info at
walterbecker.com."

Changed on December 27 to:

"Becker's second solo CD to be announced soon. More at
walterbecker.com."

I'm willing to bet my spare copy of "Rebecka Thörnqvist & Sara
Isaksson Sing Steely Dan" we won't hear any news about Walter's solo
album the coming four days.

Happy New Year & all that!

Date: Thurs, December 27, 2007, 13:08:01 ET
Posted by: angel,

ACK, ACK, ACK! They read lyrics at her funeral?

Date: Thurs, December 27, 2007, 12:33:28 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower

the SD.com homepage has been changed....looks like it's hibernating for the winter...

Date: Thurs, December 27, 2007, 12:05:56 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, resident neocon

I would ride up the Pacific coast highway with Theresa in her butter-colored Alfa Romeo Spider listening to Steely Dan any day! Tragic indeed.

Date: Thurs, December 27, 2007, 10:53:07 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, Holiday Limbo

Interesting article below, albeit tragic. Could be subject matter for a SD composition. In fact, page 2 of the article has a significant SD reference.

G



http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/01/suicides200801

Date: Thurs, December 27, 2007, 05:19:13 ET
Posted by: tonyland, home

Happy New year David, Hope all is well in the Twilight Zone. Love you.

Date: Wed, December 26, 2007, 19:18:40 ET
Posted by: Ken,

covers- You know, that wasn't even clever or funny.

Date: Wed, December 26, 2007, 19:11:31 ET
Posted by: HouDanFan, Houston

Several bands covered SD for Me Myself and Irene. Smash Mouth, Wilco, Ivy, Brian Setzer, The Push Stars, Marvelous 3, Ben Folds 5, Billy Goodrum. I didn't care too much for any of the covers. There was no depth to the any of the songs. But that's not surprising. Any Major Dude was covered by Wilco and it wasn't bad. Just goes to show how difficult it is to cover SD. I think Peg covered by the Asian chick on YouTube is one of the best covers. She kept it simple.

Date: Wed, December 26, 2007, 18:50:11 ET
Posted by: covers,

donald fagen covered here at the western world

Date: Wed, December 26, 2007, 17:21:55 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

I hope everyone had a merry Christmas! It would have been cool to listen to "A Steely Christmas" with reworkings of "A Christmas Song" and "Hark the Herald Angels Sing".... that's not gonna happen though, huh? Too un-steelylike.

Happy and prosperous New Year to all!

Date: Wed, December 26, 2007, 16:47:26 ET
Posted by: Gigantic Fan, l

Hey all! I was hoping we could all come up with some of the bands that have covered a Steely Dan song (or two).

I know- Joe Jackson, Clint Black, Mel Torme, Rikki lee Jones,

Who else? How about that Jim Carey movie sound track?

Date: Wed, December 26, 2007, 16:32:32 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower

Happy Holidays Hoops and all bluebook pals!

Date: Wed, December 26, 2007, 14:46:41 ET
Posted by: angel,

My first chance to check in here. Belated Happy/Merry's to all and a shout out to NMN. Hey there friend. :-)

Of all the things that I am thankful for, the music of Steely Dan and the many things it has brought to my life, are top of my list.

Date: Tues, December 25, 2007, 23:48:03 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, @home

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

KC

Date: Tues, December 25, 2007, 22:26:38 ET
Posted by: alan, laughing at the frozen rain, Denver CO

Anyone sober enough up for chat ?

Date: Tues, December 25, 2007, 12:39:45 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, .

Hoops - Seasons Greetings and a Happy New Year! Thanks for being Santa Claus and providing this Wonderland - 365 days a year!

Mark in Boston

Date: Tues, December 25, 2007, 11:00:59 ET
Posted by: NMN,

I am literally listening to Oscar Peterson's Xmas disc here in real time, and what to my wondering eyes should appear but the news of his death, here on the Blue Book. A great, straight-ahead player with fabulous fingers and great craft.

Merry Christmas to all the brothers and sisters. Whether you believe in the traditional cosmology, or you resist faith but honestly bear witness to our work and progeny, you gotta admit it: nobody dies.

Date: Tues, December 25, 2007, 10:22:22 ET
Posted by: MCEB,

Merry Christmas to everybody here on the blue book ! Or has Connemara would say: MCTEHOTBB!

Date: Tues, December 25, 2007, 00:18:52 ET
Posted by: Connemara, NY

Anything with OP on piano and NHOP on drums is mindblowing.

IMO, the greatest jazz piece ever recorded was Oscar's "Where do I turn To/Blues Encore". Watchign this made me cry a lot, but for first timers, it should at least send a chill up your spine.

At about 4 minutes in, prepare to witness the greatest jazz performance ever recorded on video. Mindnumbing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rZbSonHGVXc

Date: Tues, December 25, 2007, 00:12:37 ET
Posted by: fezman, boston

Merry Christmas and happy any other affiliated holiday of any religion and or persuasion...that should cover it all!!!!!.I can't seem to get into the green room any particular reason? Perhaps i should call the hoopster and rag him on this wonderful christmas eve...still early there.......fezzie

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 23:48:34 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', Hong Kong

Merry Christmas to all....


I have only a little Oscar Peterson and will surely get more. He debuted his Easter Suite in 1984 for a program called South Bank on English TV with Martin Drew on drums and Niels Henning Orsted Pedersen on bass. Highly recommended. The other thing I have is his earlier trio playing in France in 1961 + '63. This includes a track called Daahoud. I've never heared anyone play anything faster and more accurately/evenly. It's mind blowing.

Cheers...

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 23:21:49 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Connemara, as you know Oscar was the bridge from Swing to Bop to the mature stylings of the 60s and proceding decades. He was one of the last of a rapidly disappearing breed but please be consoled by the secure knowledge that he made great music for, Jesus, what, 50 years plus. That's quite a run and he left a legacy devoutly to be wished. Guys like that don't really die.

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 22:17:29 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, Yum....

Toasting the Christmas Holiday with a luscious 2006 Banfe Rose Regale!!!

Merry Christmas to all and a big shout out to our honeymooners......safe trip and may it be one of the happiest memories of your lives!

Cheers,
G

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 18:57:54 ET
Posted by: bluprintblu, my florida room

Vinyl lives. Merry Christmas and a very happy new year to all of Dandom! Hope all of you are going to have a wing ding! Cheers!

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 18:24:55 ET
Posted by: Connemara, NY

Jazz legend Oscar Peterson has passed...82 years old. I don't know what to say or think. He was my hero.

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 18:21:32 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

One of the things that I thought was very cool about how Radiohead released their new album was the fact that it was the closest experience to a big album release before the Internet came about and every high profile record was leaked before its release. I got up on October 10th and downloaded the album right away, and listened to it for the first time along with millions of other Radiohead fans. Kind of funny how a revolutionary choice of distribution ended up being a little old fashioned.

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 17:01:17 ET
Posted by: dig vs. analog, the wet side

Also,

Aren't the youthful memories of purchasing physical music media priceless? I remember working at McDonalds in high school for minimum wage and going to mall on Saturday after spending the week mulling over what to buy. The mall where I did most of my music purchasing as a teenager is slated to be bulldozed and I will no longer be able to return there to reminisce. Are the kids today going to know or care when that Itunes server they downloaded from is replaced? Will their digital files be around in 30 years like so many 45s and LPs stored in the attic? Music is now a commodity.

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 15:35:52 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

As well he should. Oscar did a take of On Green Dolphin Street, certainly the progenitor of Green Flower Street that was a real knock-out.

As for why Donald might feel the new formats are bunk...my spouse over here has this iPod thing she's always downloading stuff on and there are some early Steely Dan songs I've heard in this mp3 format that sound really bright and flashy, loud and sleek, like for instance, Your Gold teeth II. Piano, vibes and some sort of synth commence that song and it's always been a favorite entrance of mine for a Steely Dan song. The track as played through this iPod gizmo and amplified by a very nice looking Bose speaker it's cradled into really got my attention, brimming with high end and bravado. I liked it. Then I had occasion to play the vinyl later and what that ancient recording brought to life was so different. Lots of bottom, some tiny spaces in the intro, silences even, half beat reposes here and there, plus of course the inevitable crackles of a 30+ year old disc. It delivered a richness, a depth, textured like an oil painting executed with a knife as opposed to a pre-framed print you might see at a road-side vendor stand.

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 15:00:45 ET
Posted by: read it, ez chair

Don must be busy typing up his obit/tribute.

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 13:59:06 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo

Sad news just in. Oscar Peterson has passed on
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7159591.stm

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 11:30:28 ET
Posted by: razors edge boy, florida

interesting poll at neilrogers.com
vote early and often

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 11:00:13 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo - still steamy

Dear Hoops and all Bluebookers,

This week marks three years since I became a member of this community. In that time I have been constantly entertained and educated by the many posters here. I have had some awesome experiences, travelled thousands of miles, met some incredible characters (including some members of that wonderful entity, the Steely Dan band), and made many new friends - all because of this site.

A million thanks goes out to you Jim for making it all possible, to the wonderful people who have helped to make my trips so enjoyable, and of course, to Don and Walt and the band for producing such brilliant music and for being the catalyst for it all. My sincere apologies to anyone who is troubled by my one-liners referring to my hatred of cold weather or any other topic, but my email address is shown above so that issues of personal offense can be dealt with away from this site.

Thank you Jim and Dandom for a fantastic 3 years, Season's Greetings and Peace to one and all,

Ann

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 10:51:27 ET
Posted by: ha-ha, w

read it -- perhaps you should ask Russell for your money back.

Oh, wait ...

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 10:41:43 ET
Posted by: Brutus Charisma,

Wishing the entire FanDandom a splash Brut and/or Black Cat and much Charisma this Holiday Season!

Buon Natale Rajah!

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 10:00:16 ET
Posted by: read it, my ez chair

I would have appreciated more insight as to why Steely Dan's Donald Fagen feels that way.

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 08:55:16 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

Quite happy with the Fagen boxed set, save for the ridiculous MVI setup. The 1998-era interface that takes ages to load even on the fastest of PCs ... and what sort of "audiophile" setup has you ripping songs at 192 kbps?

Once again, it appears as if the "end-all" way of listening to Don's solo stuff is still a ways away. Very poorly conceived.

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 08:48:28 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, Resident Neocon

Hello one and all...

Merry Christmas

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 08:06:36 ET
Posted by: Alan and Jeri, Back in the USA, Nebraska to be precise

Wishing everyone a Very Merry Steely Christmas and Happy Holidays, and Best Wishes for a brand new album and tour in 2008!

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 04:49:51 ET
Posted by: Rajah, Have a Holly Jolly Xmas

What does the Donald think of the new music formats? Well, looky here:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/?p=2952

Yeah, it's like your mom made you that prociutto and provelone focaccia pannini with the sun-dried tomatoes and a garlic aeoli then stuck it in a shrink-wrap baggie and cryogenically froze that sucker vacuum shut in the thing they sell on QVC.

So here's my Xmas message, find those old vinyl records, fire up that unevenly calibrated turntable with the worn-down needle and woefully substandard cartridge and play 'em, play those funky records, white boys.

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 03:51:16 ET
Posted by: Pete Evans, Manchester UK

Borneo Anne.Glad to hear you have 'escaped' the dreadful UK back to your wonderful, warm country. Borneo is such a wonderful place isnt it ? Actually, most Brits don't mind a bit of cold weather. Its part of what is called nature or the four seasons, which of course you dont get in Borneo. When its cold outside we usually wear some warm clothes or turn the heating up. Max and Paddy ( for the intellectually inclined ) stars one of the finest comedians in the world, Peter Kay, who you should be proud of, being a Boltonian. As i have said before, there is nothing worse than a whingeing ex pat ! Ther's a million negative things people could say about the wonderful Borneo but its got nothing to do with Steely Dan, which is the purpose of this site.

Date: Mon, December 24, 2007, 00:33:03 ET
Posted by: Dr. Wow, ebay

Katy Lied RIAA gold award on ebay now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190185517742&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=009

Date: Sun, December 23, 2007, 22:31:09 ET
Posted by: DimSkip, On the eternal path

Inside story: why that MP3 you just downloaded probably sounds like crap
http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/?p=2952

Nothing we don't really know in the above short article, but there's this minor quote...

"With all the technical innovation, music sounds worse," says Steely Dan’s Donald Fagen

Date: Sun, December 23, 2007, 17:02:51 ET
Posted by: HouDanFan, Houston

I'm really enjoying the trilogy 10 extras in the DF box set. Rhymes is a great opener. Big Noise NY reminds me of Everything Must Go. I'm not sure of the background of that song. Live version of GFS and VVR&R brings back great memories.

Date: Sun, December 23, 2007, 10:02:26 ET
Posted by: Steve In, the study listening to classic rock

re-Rikki '96

that was a very cool arrangement....sorta bossa nova arrangment...sounded very awesome at Mountain View....as I remember though nobody was in to Becker's arrangment of Midnite Cruiser....they were doing a lot of old shit that nite...even played 'Movies.....probably motivated them to record new stuff.....

Come to Singapore Steely Dan!!!!
The streets are all ways hot
the girls pretty and
there's lots of airconditioned coffee shops
and
ther'es lots of yuppies with tons of desposable cash who would luv to see Steely Dan and his band!

Date: Sun, December 23, 2007, 09:50:43 ET
Posted by: SteveV, Singapura Lah

Hey Ann- glad to hear you at least got the Fagen set. I am still waiting....hard to get the retail guys here in Southeast Asia to track it down for some reason....Welcome Back to the Heat-quator!....Singapore has been brite n breezy, when not raining.....and raining....bu I have forgotten what bone chilling weather is like.....8 years in Singapore seems to be a karmic reward for some nasty cooooldd winters in the snowbelt of Upstate New york in the early 90s!......

Merry Christmas to all at the Bluebook.... still the best way to keep track of the 'Dan. thanks Hoops for keeping this running all this time...

Looking forward to the Great 2008! I predict a Royal Scam-ish like set from the boys!
How bout putting Freddy Washington in ther wit Carlock and getting Herington to throw down some tight rythms!!! Put some more Becker vocals in there to stir up the shit storm! ha ha

SteveO
sweating in Singapore..........west of Borneo!

Date: Sun, December 23, 2007, 09:03:28 ET
Posted by: , seeing some movies...

Anybody catch the "King of the World" reference in I AM LEGEND?

Just wonderin',
Bobbo

Date: Sun, December 23, 2007, 08:58:17 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo - back to the warmth!

Hello One and All,

I've just arrived back from freezing cold Manchester in to the glorious sunshine of Headhunter land. Had a fleeting 13 days there to check out the Old Dad. Two moments of Dan Karma whilst in the UK. First, I was driving through Liverpool city centre (European City of Culture in 2008) and noticed a poster advertising the Wayne Shorter quartet playing there on 5th Jan.08 (my timing is terrible!). Second, I was watching a re-run of "Max and Paddies road to nowhere" (not for the intellectually inclined - but stars 2 local Bolton lads) when up pops "Do it again" as the backing music during a couple of the scenes. Even more spooky is that the Off-Spring (who wants to specialise in sound design) informed me that she's already applied for an internship with the sound company that did the sound design for that series.

Steve - never made it to see America in the Lion City - couldn't finish work a day early to get to Singapore (see my comment above about my timing!).....was MOST disappointed! Have managed to get the Fagen box set though, thanks to an anonymous source :-) ....have only just unpacked, so not had time to listen to it yet.

Seasons greetings to the whole of Dandom - it's been an incredible year - here's hoping that '08 is just as good!

Peace to all,

Ann

Date: Sat, December 22, 2007, 23:28:13 ET
Posted by: Dizzie, upstairs

Miles played trumpet, Dizzie too?
Rosolinio, I didn't even know that and I know everything, man.
That means Walter didn't know either,
please forgive him - he was just trying to be funny and he almost got away with it until you saw the footage some 11 years later....
Consider switching to Tamborine if you don't want to be offended anymore - you'll be grouped in with the Joan Baez jokes,
more folksy, lethargic, peacelovin'

Date: Sat, December 22, 2007, 16:40:40 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

My guess is that Walter has a sense of humor and you do not.

Date: Sat, December 22, 2007, 11:11:59 ET
Posted by: Craig B,

Roso
Miles was really upset about it

Date: Sat, December 22, 2007, 10:40:53 ET
Posted by: F. Rosolino,

RE:The Dan Live in Manassass in 1996 - FM - Band Intros:

Why oh why does Walter make those stupid, insipid and ignorant comments about trumpet and trombone players?

Is he trying to sound like a tough guy at the expense of trumpet/trombone players in general?

When he makes these asshole comments does he do so with the knowledge that he's condemning great jazz trumpet/'bone players like Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie, J.J. Johnson, Carl Fontana, etal?

Date: Fri, December 21, 2007, 22:12:06 ET
Posted by: You Tubin', the web

I was just watching a video of Rikki from the '96 tour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br8oIrbxeT8

I was thinking how it was their highest charting single, yet one they (and perhaps most of the hardcore fans) have all but disowned. I'm sure "They didn't play Rikki Don't Lose that Number" is muttered thousands of times after every concert by casual fans who only know SD for their hits. But I don't recall anyone on here ever clamoring for it to be added to the set list.

Date: Fri, December 21, 2007, 21:49:13 ET
Posted by: Mark, Connecticut

Will someone please tell me the name of the steely dan song that has an outro of them saying something "SOPHIE" and then this guitar comes in and plays an amazing guitar outro solo??? The guitar sound is alot like reeling in the years solo distortion. PLEASE HELP!!!

Thanks
Mark

Date: Fri, December 21, 2007, 14:04:41 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, No More Snow!!!

Wasn't there a documentary about the Theramin that came out a few years ago in which Donald Fagen was thanked in the credits? I think DF might have contributed some cash to the film.

I recently saw a doc on cable about the Moog. Rick Wakeman told an amusing story about how he got one of the first Moogs from actor Jack Wild (Artful Dodger in Oliver) who bought one on a whim and thought it was broken. Jack Wild sold it to him for half what he paid. Wakeman fired it up and played around with a few knobs and it worked fine.

Have a very Merry Christmas Dandom!

Mark in Boston

Date: Fri, December 21, 2007, 12:06:18 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., Theremin therapy

And speaking of speaking of Theremins I seem to be seeing references everywhere all of a sudden. From a review (by Carrie Rickey) of "Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story" in today's Philly Inquirer Weekend section...

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/weekend/20071221_Walk_Hard_racks_up_smiles.html

"As a bearded-whale mad genius of the Brian Wilson stripe, Dewey snaps, 'Open your mind and learn to play the effing theremin!' "

Date: Fri, December 21, 2007, 08:55:13 ET
Posted by: Denise, Hinktown

Happy holidays to Danners everywhere...

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzewy83y/steelyxmas/

...and to you, Walaka, where ever you are.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 22:28:37 ET
Posted by: oleander, bob moog

Hey Daddy--Speaking of theremins, and I grant that I've probably missed many a discussion thereon here in the Blue--

Many of you probably know that Bob Moog died two years ago here in Asheville, NC, where he spent the last years of his life. He was a brilliant, funny, surpassingly creative man.

In November, his family and friends held "Enter the Mind of Moog" at the Orange Peel (theorangepeel.net), a participative electronica party that in addition to being a community happening kicked off the Bob Moog Foundation. His business, Big Briar (moogmusic.com), still produces theremins and theremin kits, among other fascinating things that are beyond this non-musician's capacity to describe or indeed know what to make of.

At moogfoundation.com, you can read about the foundation and score a deeply cool t-shirt or bumper sticker as you help restore Moog inventions and contribute to a Moog museum.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 20:25:13 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

God, this MVI "Kamakiriad" is sublime.

I CAN HEAR DONALD!

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 18:59:06 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

Speaking of Theremins, I just stumbled across these two pieces at scifidimensions recently...

Theremin: The Sound of Science Fiction
http://www.scifidimensions.com/Sep00/theremin.htm

Hey, Look! A Home-Made Theremin!
http://www.scifidimensions.com/Jun03/jaywiggins.htm

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 18:33:55 ET
Posted by: Rajah, here we go again

Bill, if memory serves, and apparently it is failing rather alarmingly, Ultimate Spinach released 3 albums and Skunk played on the third. What you saw today was I think their 2nd album and is rife with a strange bedfellows blend of the Baroque and psychedelic. Along a penchant for the use of the Theremin, an archaic electronic device we have discussed at length here in the past. Good Vibrations.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 18:04:01 ET
Posted by: Bill from Pgh,

Off track, but not totally unrelated to SD:

While browsing a thrift-shop LP bin today I saw an album called "Behold and See" by none other than Ultimate Spinach. I didn't buy it but I'll bet nobody else will for a while, either. There were no personnel credits on the jacket.

Q. Has anyone ever heard it? Is Skunk on it (Wiki suggests not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Spinach) Is it any good?

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 17:20:24 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Oh bite my crank...details details. Didn't the Decade album open up diptych-style? You mean you didn't get the second album in there? Then you missed out on the sped-up demo of Aja, what a wild ride that is.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 16:48:58 ET
Posted by: Rick,

Rajah- After all of these years I thought that Any Major Dude was on Pretzel Logic. Boy, am I dumb!

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 16:46:03 ET
Posted by: Dan Historian, all

Any Major Dude on Royal Scam?

HATWW on Decade?

Decade a double set?

Ok.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 16:36:23 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

The soundcheck Dr. Wu at Soboba was dead-on like the record, fyi.

HATWW was suppose to be on Royal Scam but was zotz'd in favor of the very similar-sounding Any Major Dude according to DF. It certainly was a stand-out on the Decade of Steely Dan double set. The live version was fun but in no way, IMHO, does it carry the heft of the original.

The theme closely resembles that of Deacon Blues, the recklessness of our protagonist, this time in WW as recounted to us by a formal narrator rather than the first person of the later song. The WW guy is trying hard to keep his demons down but by the time of AJA, Mr. Deacon Blues has given in and embraced the dark side.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 16:10:28 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

Sorry. Maybe I shoulda LOL'd instead'a ;-)'d...

:-)

Yeah, we all got our sacred (Black?) cows. And I should add that there's also the issue of long-time show-goers vs. one and only timers. Folks who've seen umpteen shows probably aren't gonna mind as much if they rework a tune or two here and there and they'll be more likely to appreciate the change-up. First-timers, though, typically want to hear the songs pretty much as they recognize'em from the recordings and I can understand that. As a multiple-timer, but not an EVERY-timer I'm somewhere in the middle of the spectrum.

I guess the bottom line is probably the Garden Party philosophy for them. Luckily their taste and mine are usually enough in sync that that's just fine with me. And seriously I even think I'd take a drastic Wu variation over no Wu at all just to be able to say I heard it once in whatever form.

Anyway, none of this is new. I say let's worry about it in 2008 when/if the next tour comes (heavy) rollin' by...

But I do think that changing the tempo of a song can be interesting to hear and just as good in many instances.

I also like either version of The Police's "Don't Stand So Close To Me."

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 15:39:31 ET
Posted by: LA Concession,

I thought that HATWW was sacred!

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 14:41:13 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

As Angel says, I understand folks not liking the revved up WW as much (or even at all). I too was skeptical about it from the reports of shows prior to the one I attended at The Tower in (well, near) Philly. But once I heard it for myself, I loved it---a completely different take. Note that I simply said "different," not better or worse. And when I say I "loved it," that doesn't mean I don't also love the original version because indeed I do. I originally wanted to hear it done in the "traditional" style, but I certainly enjoyed the sped-up version as well. Yep, two ways to enjoy it now. Double your pleasure, double your fun---for me anyway.

Hoops, interesting speculations. My own thought might be that it was Donald's way of saying, "Yeah, I may be identified with SD and many of you may be sort of expecting a Dan show, but this ain't necessarily your same old SD here, folks!" Or yeah, perhaps that's something he's always wanted to do to that tune.

It seems like the ol' catch-22 between fans wanting him/them to do stuff the way it was recorded and others wanting some variations to keep things exciting and fresh. There are merits to both sides. I'm sure many folks wouldn't mind if a few of the old chestnuts were trotted out in significantly reworked form ("roasting on an open fire?") because we've heard'em so much over the years in the usual style. Others say the recordings are sacred and that's the way the songs should always be done. Me, I'm flexible and take what I can get, usually with appreciation to be found in all. But then I'm something of an admitted Dan stepford, so [shrug]...

I think the fact that a much loved tune that had never before been performed live (that I know of, though I could be wrong) was so drastically reworked without giving it to us straight first is maybe what rankles some. I'm pretty sure that if many folks had their d'ruthers they'd have preferred to hear it as they know and love it first, then let it be refurbished on later tours.

All that being said, though, if they ever do the Wu live and they alter it a la WW in some major way(s), well, that just won't be acceptable. THAT one IS sacred!

;-)

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 14:34:04 ET
Posted by: LA Concession,

Fife- So you don't like True Companion but you love the new version of HATWW? Jeez, I think I'm in the wrong forum.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 13:16:03 ET
Posted by: Steely Fan, NJ

I attended the first show on DF's tour, obviously with no knowledge of the set list. I'll say this much... I can't think of a less predictable way to start the show. It was a lot cooler than Atlantic City when he opened with the instantly recognizable Green Flower Street.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 12:48:47 ET
Posted by: Paul, FLA

Re: Here At The Western World:

Can you people honestly say that you like the faster version better then the original? That's mind blowing to me! The album version sends chills up and down your spine. The live version sounds like "The Chipmunks" on acid. No comparison in my opinion.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 12:34:12 ET
Posted by: hoops, with wild theories, chicago

I have no way of knowing for sure and I've never discussed this before. It's more than crossed my mind since Donald had his solo tour almost two years ago--why kick off your first solo tours away from Steely Dan (in other words, away from Walter Becker) with HATWW? Why not a new MTC track? Why not a signature solo tune like I.G.Y.? Why not something along the lines of Mancini's "Pete's Pad" or even Chuck Berry's "Viva Rock and Roll"?

Only his hairdresser knows for sure, but I can't help but wonder if that is the way DONALD always wanted to perform HATTW. You know, maybe back circa 1975-76, they had a couple of versions. Maybe at the time, Walter and Donald debated which version to use. The version that eventually came out on "1972-78" was finally agreed upon. Or maybe Donald thought of that arrangement years later. Or something else.

Whatever the circumstances, it's curious that DF waited to perform it solo, with a different tempo and feel, and only without Walter. Moreover, in the spirit of my post yesterday, I wonder if DF would give the same explanation today that he would back almost two years ago.

Jim

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 12:30:54 ET
Posted by: angel,

I love HATWW revved up. But I can understand others not liking it. When I heard that they did it, from the early concert reviews, I couldn't imagine ruining a song that way. Leave it to Donald to make it a go of it.
So now I have two ways to enjoy the song.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 12:13:01 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower

I love the new version of HATWW....to hear it at the soundcheck for the first show of the DF tour (because of the I Love All Access thing) was phenomenal...I'll never forget that!

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 11:51:09 ET
Posted by: Fife, Baltimore, eh

I really loved the way Donald kicked up HATWW actually. It took a few secs to get into the swing of it but I did. I really enjoy it when they change things up, it makes it far more interesting, kind of like adding a different herb to a dish that wouldn't normally be there, a very pleasant suprise. Just my 2 cents worth.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 11:40:23 ET
Posted by: Paul, FLA

Rajah - I think 'ruined' or 'destroyed' are the appropriate words to describe what DF did to HATWW live. That song on record was a 'classic' SD tune. In my opinion that was the last song in the SD catalog that he should have messed with.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 11:21:05 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

Recycled, it's only the same chord. I don't think it was recycled; its probably a coincidence.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 10:14:30 ET
Posted by: recycled tunes,

The opening to pixeleen is the opening to wetside story.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 08:33:57 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Hear hear Beersy, may your wassail never flag.

While I don't think Fagen ruined Here@Western World, the sped up tempo didn't seem to suit the thematic elements of the lyric. But what the hell, worth a try, good opener. But my favorite opener for any show was Boston Rag, that very dramatic run up the fretboard on the opening lick of lead guitar raised the gooseflesh.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 07:57:25 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

Beers:

The very same right back at you my friend.

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 06:17:13 ET
Posted by: Beerberian, UK Dandom on Trent

As the yuletide approacheth thoughts turn to old friends...

I bid you all Seasons Greets & Merriment - You all have yourselves a Danny Little Christmas folks

Raj, Dunc, Bassinstinct, Stevee Chernove an' any one else who denies knowing me

Date: Thurs, December 20, 2007, 00:25:48 ET
Posted by: gug, gug

Anyone else having trouble getting ringtones off the DF boxed set? On the Nightfly disc, I can't choose between songs to use. Am I only allowed a chance to buy "IGY?" (even though they call it "Nightfly")

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 21:58:33 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,

The last Strainer was:

"Tonight's Strainer takes us back to the Old Testament Dan, and a possible sonic link to a recently deceased Dan, Mr. Fogelberg. Fogelberg recorded a song in the mid 1980's called "Missing You", which was one of his highest selling singles. This song features a repeating four note "hook" that occurs after each line of its verse where he sings "I'm Missing You".

Name the Old Testament Dan tune that features not quite an exact (maybe a key change), but very similar hook after each line of its verse."

"Kid Charlemagne" was suggested, a good choice. The screaming guitar solos and in its interludes/outro and overall tempo is quite similar to Fogelberg's "Missing You". Overall "Kid" does bear a sonic similarity, a "Big 80's" style, if you will. Academically enlightening, but not quite the tune we are looking for.

HINT: The SD tune in question has that Big 80's sound, has the repeating, similar, 4-5 note hook as in "Missing You" and appears early in the Old Testament."

The key to the HINT is "early" in the Old Testament. "Night by Night" is an excellent answer, it has that "end of verse" 5-note hook that is executed by bass guitar after each line, then by horns at the end of each verse. Also, it is believed that "Night by Night" was later derived from "Kings" to a great degree.
However, "Night by Night" lies about in the middle of the Old Testament, not early enough. And the answer was not quite early enough.

The tune we were looking for was "Kings", a tune 10 to 12 years ahead of its time. It is a tune that you could envision someone like a Fogelberg, Kenny Loggins, Journey, or Richard Marx remaking in the Big 80's. One thing about "Can't Buy a Thrill" that might be underappreciated is that it contains songs from about 5 or 6 different genres, such as latin, jazz, country, folk, metal, you name it. "Kings" was a harbinger of the Big 80's. Denise of Hinktown was first with the best answer.

As an aside, Fogelberg, overall was indeed a bit "schmaltzy", but back in the day, he was almost to the level of E. Humperdinck in getting "that sugar to pour". But he could conjure up some harder-edged stuff such as "Missing You", and when he got into his gutteral, growling, belt-it out singing mode, it has been said he vocally resembled another soulful crooner who too, has since passed away--Robert Palmer.

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 21:22:02 ET
Posted by: Idiotism,

Dan & Fagenism - A faster tempo "Green Book" would most probably be as bad as the fast tempo version of "Here At The Western World". DF destroyed HATWW on his solo tour. If it's not broken, don't fix it!

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 21:06:36 ET
Posted by: s-fan, nj

After some more listens and the hint that it came early, I'm thinking Night by Night.

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 21:00:10 ET
Posted by: Steely Fan, NJ

You can sample Missing You on itunes, and it includes the notes in question.

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 19:40:12 ET
Posted by: Denise, Hinktown

Brain Strainer: Kings?

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 19:30:57 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,

The last Strainer was:

"Tonight's Strainer takes us back to the Old Testament Dan, and a possible sonic link to a recently deceased Dan, Mr. Fogelberg. Fogelberg recorded a song in the mid 1980's called "Missing You", which was one of his highest selling singles. This song features a repeating four note "hook" that occurs after each line of its verse where he sings "I'm Missing You".

Name the Old Testament Dan tune that features not quite an exact (maybe a key change), but very similar hook after each line of its verse."

"Kid Charlemagne" was suggested, a good choice. The screaming guitar solos and in its interludes/outro and overall tempo is quite similar to Fogelberg's "Missing You". Overall "Kid" does bear a sonic similarity, a "Big 80's" style, if you will. Academically enlightening, but not quite the tune we are looking for.

HINT: The SD tune in question has that Big 80's sound, has the repeating, similar, 4-5 note hook as in "Missing You" and appears early in the Old Testament.

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 19:17:40 ET
Posted by: angel,

I too remember Carlock mentioning that he just couldn't nail Green Book's tempo and they finally slowed it down. It's great as it is. One of my favorite cuts on the CD...especially the rattle sound that feels snake like. Works with the slow tempo, perfectly. :-)

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 19:05:13 ET
Posted by: Well, since Green Book IS Teahouse on the Tracks, Why would you expect it to be any different?

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 19:04:23 ET
Posted by: Milo, Meyer Sound

Thanks for the Hank's Pad info.

This is why I don't understand why we don't have more of the Roger Nichols hard drive material! There are a plethera of companies
now that can take a broken hard drive and extract all of the data
in pristine condition. They can even now take a hard drive that has been submerged in salt water and extract all of the data.

Any thoughts?

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 18:55:37 ET
Posted by: Live Recordings 2000?, yo

Hanks Pad was taken from a German show in 2000. Didn't Roger Nichols sayin an article that those recordings were lost because the harddrives on which they were recorded fail to spin up?

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 18:47:49 ET
Posted by: Hank got padded in Germany, Straight facts from the "MVI"

The box set says:

"Live performance by the Steely Dan band with the Danettes in Frankfort, Germany, 9/18/2000."

You and I of course know that it's Frankfurt, but what's an "o" or "u" between friends?

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 18:04:15 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

About the only person from which they would accept that kind of guidance at this point would pretty much have to be surnamed Ellington. Have they come this far to not be masters of their own product? Hardly seems likely but on the flip side of that, I believe a guy like Herington when he says they've hardly ever given him any direction or instruction much at all. I think they trust this band they have now. By all accounts anyway.

Could it be that the "very fast," drum track that Carlock refers to from the EMG session which he stated he couldn't quite nail was a suped-up version of Greenbook?

Darn it, in response to the Hank's Pad question, I believe it's from the 2YK tour even though I seem to recall it was a staple on an earlier tour, and recorded either in England or Germany. Rhino hardly ever springs for an actual printed companion booklet for these boxed sets anymore and even though I remember coming across this information somewhere on those discs, still, not having a hardcopy reference to just grab off the shelf is a pain in the ass.

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 18:00:32 ET
Posted by: Dan Belcher, Louisville, KY

While a faster tempo "Green Book" would be interesting, I think the tempo's pretty much perfect as is. That was the thing that first grabbed me on that song. The bouncy and quasi-funky interplay between the bass and drums that also at the same time has kind of a lope... very cool. Also, it really gives the song a nice buildup as you get into the synth/guitar dueling solo and the later stanzas. How's the lyric from the song go? "The seamless segue from fun to fever / It's a sweet device"

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 16:52:45 ET
Posted by: Fagenism, -

Hoops:

I don't remember having brought up the producer topic before. Anyway, I don't see how consulting a contemporary producer would make it any less Steely Dan, or how it would be fundamentally different from having Gary Katz produce the albums. Also, I am under the impression that Donald and Walter have always encouraged their musicians (such as Chuck Rainey, Michael Leonhart, Keith Carlock etc) to come up with their own parts. On top of this they hired people to come up with the horn charts for some of their albums in the 70's.

What I am getting at is that I am not sure that there has ever been such a thing as a Steely Dan album clinically free from creative input from others than Donald and Walter. In fact I believe that the vast amount of people involved in the Steely Dan albums over the years, is one of the factors that has made the music so diverse and dynamic. I believe hiring a contemporary producer as well as experimenting with new musicians on the upcoming album, would potentially add yet another flavour to the Steely Dan catalogue.

Again, I believe Nigel Godrich would certainly be an interesting producer. Another candidate would be Pharrell Williams, who is a self-proclaimed Steely Dan and Fagen fan. I do realize, however, that the chance that Donald and Walter would hire a producer at this point is minimal, and if they would - against all odds - neither of the names I just mentioned would be their choice.

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 16:21:15 ET
Posted by: Milo, Meyer Sound

Box Set Question -

What show and date is "Hank's Pad" from?

-Thanks

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 14:04:35 ET
Posted by: Fagenism, -

Idiotism:

Good job picking a nick.

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 13:59:07 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

In interviews around the time of EMG's release, the Two talked about how "Green Book" was originally ultra-fast.

Hoops, I remember it was either you or someone else who had EMG just one notch below Aja on your list of the best SD albums when it came out. That immediacy was enthralling back then. Not sure where it stands now, but it was a knockout on first listen.

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 13:17:02 ET
Posted by: Idiotism,

Fagenism- The "original version" of Green Book???

What the F&^k are you talking about? Please tell us what you know that every one else doesn't.

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 13:02:32 ET
Posted by: Donald Rumsfeld-Fagen, ...

"I also believe that Green Book would have been a more interesting song if they had settled for the original up-tempo version."

What original version are you referring to?

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 12:56:20 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

I'm down solid with you on "Rhymes," Hoops, it's a tribute to the Reverend Al so it's very clever, I really enjoy it but it is what it is, just a lark. Sounds like Donald's having fun on it, his own karoke take as if at a Xmas party up there in his Manhattan digs with a bunch of pals.

But the guy who did that very fine and very extensive review of the Trilogy just got one thing wrong, IMHO: the electronic drum track for Rhymes is so very obviously fake. And I don't mean that to sound pejorative but can't you just hear the time is much too perfect and the dead give-a-way, that clipped sound, the lack of true upstroke sound, that lag, that consistent but ever so slight retard of the human drumstroke, c'mon.

Slang is placed in there at just the right spot on EMG. WB deserves his moment and he gives a tight reading, move over Prof. Higgins. He's absolutely out-of-sate.

And is the Dan gonna change gears, morph into something else? Looking back, haven't they always from record to record, even if ever-so imperceptibly?

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 12:41:07 ET
Posted by: My Take, everywhere

If TVN doesn't take all those Grammies, I don't think we have another CD by 2003.

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 12:08:40 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

In the coming weeks there will be some modest changes to this site. If you have any suggestions or input, please email me privately--hoopsATdandomDOTcom

Jim

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 11:53:01 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

For over a decade, we were sustained with but seven Steely Dan studio albums. But what a collection of albums with concentrated substance! Despite the relatively limited catalog, I listened again and again and my appreciation of those tracks grew deeper with every listen. It still does. After 20, 30 years, I discover a new nuance of certain lyric in "Rikki" or the subtlety and humor of a particular beat at a very particular point in "Green Earrings", etc.

The same thing happens for me with "Two Against Nature". I still discover things on the 1,000th-plus listen. My appreciation keeps increasing. I wasn't even especially keen on 2vN the first few days I listened to it. I love it more and more with each listen.

EMG is the only one I "got" right away. And remember that the first time several of us heard it was when it was posted on MSN in a low quality stream about a month before it came out. After a few listens, I pretty much felt familiar with the album. But when I spin it now and then, I don't discover much new. It's a fine album, it sounds like everyone is playing in the same room (even if they are not). When *I'm* having a bad day, it sounds cliché in parts. I like it, but it's as if B + F didn't put as much depth into it. Or I'm oblivious to the depth...could be the latter!

MTC is fine but it is different from either of these albums in a number of ways which I don't have time to outline at this moment. I think the only area where it definitely falls short in my book is the lyrics. That's another conversation.

The thing with "Slang of Ages" is that indeed it comes across as a one-off. They should have had more tracks with Walter on vocals or none at all. It once crossed my mind that "Slang" might be better positioned as a bonus track if it were a different artist's --but not so with a Steely Dan album. A Steely Dan album is meant as a self-contained song-cycle. That said, I think "Things I Miss the Most" and "Greenbook" might have have had potential with lead vox by Walter but there is no proof of that. Probably the best example of a side by side comparison would be "Jack of Speed" from the 1996 tour versus "Jack of Speed" from 2vN and the 2000 tour. Both are different and I give the edge to the version I heard Walter sing in 1996 which was a lot more energetic, fun and spontaneous. At the same time, the lower-key version with Fagen on lead vox from 2000 is a much better fit to the flow of 2vN. All IMHO.

Now as noted in this forum in the past month or so, Donald himself has said that he prefers EMG to 2vN. I haven't seen his explanation, so perhaps that could change my perception of either or both albums. At the same, time, I'm reminded that more than a few artists don't necessarily like their most popular work; nor are they necesarily forthcoming about the actual reasons for their opinion. Fagen is probably has very straightforward reasons, but I'm reminded of another artist whose songs I really like. He said a certain album from ten years ago was his worst out of dozens! Many fans could think of worse albums. I ended up giving the album a re-listen for the first time in a couple of years. I realized that the songs were much better than I remembered! But also I had never realized that all the songs were about the artist's serious problems at the time. It was very obvious and the problems he was having had long passed. Wouldn't surprise me if the artist didn't like his album because he didn't like what the songs were about. At the same time, I appreciated the album as one of his most honest in years.

"Fagenism": I believe you posted the outside producer thread before. Steely Dan is first and foremost a writing/production process. What you suggest is like saying, "Aretha Franklin should find a new sound--she could get J Lo. or another woman take over on lead vocal duties on the next Aretha album." You basically are saying get rid of what makes Steely Dan Steely Dan. Sure, let them work with someone else, but it wouldn't be a Steely Dan album. Call it something else. "Rhymes" is perhaps an example of what would happen. Yes, it's a Donald Fagen track but it comes off to me as Donald singing on someone else's album as far as I'm concerned. "Rhymes" is a great homage to Al Green, but it made me want to listen to Al Green's version--which is probably what Fagen intended. Conversely, consider Steely Dan/Fagen die-hard's regular pleas for "The Finer Things," "Shades," and "Blue Lou". I am pretty sure, Fagen appears on none of these, yet many fans think of them as Fagen tracks.

One thing that I suggest in this writing is that Steely Dan and Fagen tracks and albums are more similar that a Becker album. Somewhat true...but that is for some other time.

Jim

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 10:20:01 ET
Posted by: Denise, Hinktown

Web Searcher, thanks for that link. It's a good review.

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 09:57:55 ET
Posted by: Fagenism, -

I have read a lot of discussions about whether Everything Must Go or Two Against Nature is the stronger album. To me these masterpieces are hard to compare, as I believe they have completely different sounds.

I believe that Everything Must Go and Morph The Cat are easier to compare, as they both have a warm, organic sound. This leads me to my question: which of these two do you believe is the stronger album? I slightly lean towards Everything Must Go mainly because I think the songs on Morph are a bit too long and tend to feel a bit watered down, whereas the arrangements on EMG are very concise. I also think that the last track on Morph is a bit of a let-down when it comes to closing the whole Nightfly trilogy. Considering Fagen's genius he could easily have written an encore featuring elements from key tracks of all three albums. Instead the track is just an alternative version of the opening track that ends with a minimal reference to I.G.Y. In my humble opinion he should either have written a full-blown encore, or just finished Morph with a stand-alone track. Having said this, I believe the main problem with EMG is Slang Of Ages which kills the flow of the album with its uninspired verse and Walter's barely listenable vocals. I also believe that Green Book would have been a more interesting song if they had settled for the original up-tempo version. But then again, who the heck am I to question the decisions of these masters...

I would like to discuss one more thing. How likely do you think it is that Donald and Walter will come up with a somewhat new sound/direction for the next Steely Dan album? I personally believe that they should step out of the comfort zone of their existing band (based on Carlock, Herington, Washington etc) and bring in a brand new producer (such as Nigel Godrich) to create a new sound.

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 02:26:27 ET
Posted by: Web Searcher, here

This is the most thorough review of the Fagen boxed set I've read.

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=27807

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 01:22:51 ET
Posted by: Steely Fan, NJ

Strainer,

Kid Charlemagne

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 00:32:27 ET
Posted by: steely diane, seattle

thanks for all the replies. i appreciate them.

this is what came in the email i received at 11:45am on May 4th, 2007 (yeah yeah, i know. i'm just being precise):


You can now pre-order your copy of the amazing new Nightfly Trilogy Music Video Interactive DVD Box Set. Donald Fagen's three solo classics--The Nightfly, Kamikiriad, and Morph The Cat--reissued as groundbreaking MVI Discs, produced in collaboration with Donald himself. Each title is on its own MVI disc featuring the entire original album along with DTS 5.1, Dolby Digital and Advanced Resolution PCM Stereo mixes, plus rare and previously unreleased bonus audio tracks and interviews. Each disc also features bonus content including videos, rare footage, complete lyrics, a custom ringtone application, special weblinks, and more. Expanded booklets include liner notes and track-by-track commentary by Donald.

Plus, the first 100 copies pre-ordered will be signed by Donald! In addition, you can get 10% off anything else in the Donald Fagen Official Store when you purchase it with the Box Set.



me again:

so there wasn't any requirement to pay extra for an autographed copy & obviously, i was hoping my haste in ordering would yield one of the first 100.

my real question is whether the fulfillment company actually did what it indicated it would--send the first 100 to the first 100 people.

apologies to anyone who can't get behind this line of query, but i would be very interested in knowing the date & time anyone's orders were placed who actually received the inscribed box set. considering the delay in issuing the thing, i'm wondering if the musictoday.com kept good track of the chronology of the orders.

i'm just sayin.

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 00:17:33 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

My Old School

Date: Wed, December 19, 2007, 00:06:44 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

Shark, just paste the URL and tell the board what it leads to. The column has been on the Blue for two days now, and we don't need a full cut-and-paste job.

It's kind of a dick move to the editors and graphics people and people who work at Slate who depend on ad revenue to keep their jobs to paste the text of a column onto another site without attribution, and without a chance for the Slate people to see some payoff on their work.

Date: Tues, December 18, 2007, 23:09:41 ET
Posted by: Shark DeVille, FL room

The Devil and Ike Turner
Parsing his hits.
By Donald Fagen


"I got to keep movin'
I got to keep movin'
Blues fallin' down like hail
(Blues fallin' down like hail)
And the days keeps on worryin' me
There's a Hellhound on my trail
(Hellhound on my trail)"

—Robert Johnson

Most all the musicians of my acquaintance know the legend of Robert Johnson, the great Delta bluesman. At a crossroads at midnight, Robert meets the devil (or Eshu or Papa Legba) and, in exchange for his immortal soul, comes away with supernatural skills as a singer and guitarist. Many versions of this Faustian story put the crossroads at Clarksdale, Miss., where Highway 49 meets Highway 61.

Muddy Waters was raised in Clarksdale. John Lee Hooker and Sam Cooke were born and grew up there. Ike Turner was a Clarksdale boy, too. This was the 1930s in the Deep South. Real bad stuff happened. Nevertheless, by the time he was a teenager, Ike could bang out a boogie on the piano and play the guitar with an authentic Delta twang. But, in truth, talented as he was, there wasn't anything really supernatural about Ike's skills as a musician. His singing was always spirited, but, relative to the wealth of local competition, no big deal. What Ike excelled at was leadership: conceptualization, organization, and execution. It's intriguing to think: If Ike walked down to the crossroads one moonless night, what exactly did he ask for?

Long before he met Tina (originally Anna Mae Bullock) in St. Louis in the late 1950s and began the 16-year partnership that would end with his name used mainly as a comic byword for "blow-addicted megalomaniacal black wife-beater," Ike had already been successful at some half-dozen careers in music. He was a DJ, a relentless talent scout, an arranger (for Sam Phillips at Sun, among others), a bandleader (with his own group, the Kings of Rhythm), and a session player (he recorded with B.B., Howlin' Wolf, Elmore James, and many others). His employers included the Bihari brothers at Modern Records, the Chess brothers in Chicago, and a host of tough club owners. They didn't like to fool around with their money. Ike had to be at that session on time, he had to book those gigs, make sure the band's suits were pressed, and that they rolled in to the next town ready to play. Organization!

Ike could make things happen. Most of the obituaries I've seen mention "Rocket 88," a jump blues about an Oldsmobile that Ike and his Kings of Rhythm recorded in 1951. Chess records released it under the name "Jackie Brenston and His Delta Cats" (Brenston, Ike's bari sax player, was the vocalist that day). A lot of music critics seem to think it was the first record to make the leap from R&B to rock 'n' roll, probably because the busted amp that guitarist Willie Kizart was using added some serendipitous distortion to his sound. But it's Ike's stomping piano that drives the tune. "Rocket 88" went to No. 1 on the R&B charts and, no doubt, Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis were listening.

The next year, the Bihari brothers sent him to Memphis to find bluesman Rosco Gordon. Ike liked Gordon's tune "No More Doggin' " and had Rosco bring in his band for a session. In fact, Ike liked the tune so much, he secretly had the band come back and record it again with himself singing. (Fortunately, Rosco heard what was going on and broke up Ike's game.) "No More Doggin' " made it to No. 2 on the charts that year. Rosco Gordon's piano style—particularly on that record—was a quirky sort of boogie with a deep shuffle and a heavy accent on the upbeats. If it sounds almost like ska music when you hear it, it's no accident: The record is often cited as the template for Jamaican ska rhythm—whence came rock steady, whence came reggae. No wonder Ike tried to steal it.

When Papa Legba, the Crossroads Devil, steered Anna Mae Bullock into his path, Ike found his muse. I love all those early records Ike worked up for Tina and the Ikettes: "A Fool in Love," "I Idolize You," "I Think It's Gonna Work Out Fine," and so on. Ike's concept (really a more raw and countrified version of Ray Charles' act) was simple: The band plays tight; Tina goes berserk. My favorite from this period, though, is "I'm Blue (The Gong Gong Song)" by the Ikettes, with Dolores Johnson singing the lead vocal. A static sequence of transparent cells filled with the sound of smoldering desire, this piece is Ike's overarching masterpiece (most people might be familiar with it as the sample used by Salt-N-Pepa in their 1993 hit "Shoop").

In 1965, Ike hired young Jimi Hendrix as a second guitarist for the Revue, but he was a big showoff, and Ike had to let him go: Jimi wouldn't stay inside the lines.

Papa Legba started to work overtime on Ike's behalf in the late '60s. Ike and Tina opened for the Stones and crossed over big time by covering rock tunes like "Proud Mary" and "Honky Tonk Woman." Now they were superstars, and the greenbacks were flowing. As is usual in these cases, Legba closed in to collect the vig. By all accounts, Ike got higher every year, and meaner, too. It's really hard to focus when there's a Hellhound on your trail. From Ike's point of view, squinting through the harsh fallout from all that booze and goofy dust, he may have figured that forceful action needed to be taken to ensure that everything in his world was up to his rigidly high standards of organization. He may have determined that, with the Hound so close and all, he'd better at least have his ducks in a row. Chaos had to be fended off, and the ends justified the means. Or something like that.

Or was it that Legba had given Ike exactly what he'd wished for—a schoolboy's dream of a girl who could be both a soul mate and a creature he could mold into the perfect lover and musical partner—knowing that Ike would never have the empathetic chops to see what he actually had?

After Tina finally left in '76, Ike, already way shredded from the whole Sex, Drugs, and Rock n' Roll thing, totally came apart. Years of continued heavy drug use and run-ins with the law ensued, culminating in his serving 17 months in a California state prison. He was still in jail when he got the news that he and Tina had been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Finally, just when things were starting to look up, Tina's book came out, followed by the film What's Love Got To Do With It.

Now the poster boy for spousal abuse, Ike started to fight his way back. He reconstituted the Kings of Rhythm and came out with a book, Taking Back My Name ("Sure, I've slapped Tina. … We had fights and there have been times when I punched her without thinking. … But I never beat her. … I did no more to Tina than I would mind somebody doing to my mother in the same circumstances."). Obviously, there was something Ike just didn't get about the whole hitting problem. In his comeback shows, he had a series of surrogate Tinas come out in Tina-type outfits and sing Tina's songs. It seemed like he still couldn't figure out why she was gone. And yet he soldiered on, releasing two respectable albums, the second of which, Risin' With the Blues, won a Grammy just last year.

How did Ike make out with the Crossroads Devil? We'll never know. Faust, in Goethe's version, does horrible things, especially in regard to his honey, Gretchen. At the end, he's about to be thrown into the yawning jaws of hell when a posse of angels comes to the rescue, singing:

"He's escaped, this noble member
Of the spirit world, from evil
Whoever strives in his endeavor,
We can rescue from the devil.
And if he has Love within,
Granted from above,
The sacred crowd will meet him
With welcome, and with love."

I'd like to think Ike's version came out the same.

Date: Tues, December 18, 2007, 22:48:36 ET
Posted by: Brain Strainer,

Tonight's Strainer takes us back to the Old Testament Dan, and a possible sonic link to a recently deceased Dan, Mr. Fogelberg. Fogelberg recorded a song in the mid 1980's called "Missing You", which was one of his highest selling singles. This song features a repeating four note "hook" that occurs after each line of its verse where he sings "I'm Missing You".

Name the Old Testament Dan tune that features not quite an exact (maybe a key change), but very similar hook after each line of its verse.

Difficulty level is approximately a 4.5.

Date: Tues, December 18, 2007, 22:06:26 ET
Posted by: bikemann, NJ

Just read Steven Stills has same cancer that took Dan F. Found early though. I think this is the message I needed to go get checked out.

Date: Tues, December 18, 2007, 13:36:47 ET
Posted by: another auld lang syne, indeed

Fogelberg's Auld Lang Syne also features a rare soprano saxophone solo by Michael Brecker, who also passed on earlier this year.

Date: Tues, December 18, 2007, 13:13:53 ET
Posted by: W1P, Rebel Without a Cause

Dear Dayglow: Did you used to paint the face? I must confess that I've never been to the "Pink Floyd Laser Spectacular" but did attend the Laserium at the Griffith Park Observatory many moons ago. The Laserium thing was great and if the PFLS is anything like it, it should be entertaining. But that's speculating that the Griffith Park experience is substantially the same or similar. Sorry I can't be more helpful

Date: Tues, December 18, 2007, 11:59:24 ET
Posted by: autograph hound, ebay

wasn't the autograph preorder offer announced closely before the original release date this spring? What happened right before the first release date is someone realized the original discs wouldn't play in a regular cd player, and the release date shifted several months and the product was changed. DF probably signed he first product packaging. just a guess

Date: Tues, December 18, 2007, 11:27:28 ET
Posted by: Dayglow Freak,

W1P- I'm thinking of going to 'The Pink Floyd Laser Spectacular'. Any good?

Date: Tues, December 18, 2007, 11:11:25 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Diane, there was an extra empty box in the package signed by Donald in silver magic marker. This and my Coke can should now be worth, oh, an .05 recycling return value.

Dan Fogleberg had a sweet voice and that appealed to lots of the fairer sex. He was schmaltzy but a good and wholesome kind of schmaltzy, his schmaltz was in the right place.

Date: Tues, December 18, 2007, 10:51:20 ET
Posted by: Wanker, Leeds

diane - it was my understanding that the first 100 people who didn't give 2VN a bad review before it officially came out would get this.

Date: Tues, December 18, 2007, 09:29:24 ET
Posted by: angel,

Little Wild One: That is my favorite song from Twin Sons. Very nice for a wedding. :-)

It always amazes me, these Steely Dan connections. Irving Azoff moved to LA because of Dan Fogelberg. Interesting fact.

Date: Tues, December 18, 2007, 08:30:40 ET
Posted by: Hutch, rva

Larry King did a tribute to Dan Fogelberg last night. Joe Walsh and Graham Nash were in attendance. Both talked about their friend "Danny" and urged those watching to get tested for prostate cancer.
"Part of the Plan" is a great song...

Love when you can
Cry when you have to...
Be who you must
That’s a part of the plan
Await your arrival
With simple survival
And one day we’ll all understand.

Date: Tues, December 18, 2007, 07:31:25 ET
Posted by: George, in Paris

My favorite Dan Fogelberg albums were Souvenirs and Netherlands. The songs that still listen to from those are some that didn't get so overplayed on the radio - Dancing Shoes, Promises Made, Changing Horses, and Sketches come to mind. "Twin Sons of Different Mothers" is an expression that I use to this day, any time there is half an opening in a conversation. Dan Fogelgerg, RIP.

Date: Tues, December 18, 2007, 01:06:51 ET
Posted by: steely diane, seattle

back on hallowe'en, craig b. wondered if anyone would receive donald's "autographed box set." it was my understanding that the first 100 people who ordered would get this. i ordered within seconds of receiving the email from his fulfillment joint on april 4th, i think. maybe it was may 4th. anyway, it was a long freakin time ago.

did anyone order quickly & receive one of these autographed box sets, or is this just an urban myth? i can't imagine donald sitting there signing 100 of these, then sending the off to be re-wrapped by the record company or whatever.

& by the way, hi all.

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 19:19:57 ET
Posted by: Cool Tool,

"And his blood runs through my instrument" he he he....well, not really.

But Dan was quite a few times in the Top 20, never #1, just like THE Dan...

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 19:15:43 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, Down in the Bottom

True confessions: I heard "Same Auld Old Lang Syne" Saturday night while trying to impart some holiday cheer in the car with the teen ager. The last line always makes me a bit melancholy for what might have been.

And, although "Longer" was known for being a wedding staple when I and my peers were getting hitched, I chose "Since You Asked," a song I had heard from Twin Sons of Different Mothers (which was composed by Judy Collins) to be sung at my nuptials.

I did not know that Azoff was from Danville. Damn, that's where my ex's first wife grew up.

New Keith Carlock newsletter out today. A few more Texas dates for Rudder ahead.

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 18:50:39 ET
Posted by: W1P, Lake Tahoe

Yesterday I took Aja and Layla to the park and brought along my iPod for entertainment while they played on the monkey bars. Usually I just pick "shuffle" to suprise myself with what I have on the device. But for some reason I went to the Artist menu and selected Dan Fogelberg -- something I have never done since owning an iPod. I listened to Times Like These and then went back to shuffle. When I got home from the park, my wife told me that she saw on the news that Dan Fogelberg had died. A Jungian moment. I bought several Fogleberg albums in college because my girlfriend (and "first love" if you know what I mean) was into him (the same reason I watched Luke and Laura in the dorm TV room everyday). Anyway, I am not ashamed to admit that I enjoyed his material -- I really liked the song "Part of the Plan" My recollection is that Joe Walsh had a hand in producing some of Fogelberg's records. I also saw him live at Harrah's Lake Tahoe in the mid-80s and he was an excellent performer. My brother's ex-wife was friends with Fogelberg in the 70s -- both were in the Illini art department.

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 17:50:37 ET
Posted by: "Hear-story", Obituary linked

Re: Donald Fagen's obituary on Ike Turner.

Thanks to YouTube you can hear

Rocket 88:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NAr0lKCs4o

Roscoe Gordon - No More Doggin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nTAmoT8iSA

and Ikettes - I'm Blue (The Gong Gong Song):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCDmtRIFThk

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 16:38:30 ET
Posted by: Thre Grim Reaper, the great beyond

It used to be a little funny. Then a little creepy. Now it's getting a little scary.

DONALD! STEP AWAY FROM THE OBIT PAGES!

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 16:31:01 ET
Posted by: Bill,

Rajah, I fully agree, and I miss the days of Steelydan.com when Walter, I assume, would regale us regularly with his satirical musings. It was the most entertaining artist website for many years and I always thought WB was behind most of the clever content.

By the way, I don't think anyone has made much note here on the Blue of this encouraging DF comment in the recent interview:

11/21/2007
Just A Minute With: Donald Fagen
By Mark McSherry

* * *

Q: What's next?

A: "I'm back into songwriting mode ... for myself and also talking with Walter about a Steely Dan album. We are planning to go out with Steely Dan in the summer (playing live) and maybe next fall (2008) I'm hoping to go out with my band ...We are having a lot of fun in our old age."

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 14:50:16 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

And as entertaining and erudite a writer of casual prose as Donald is, I think Walter may be even better. Wish they'd take up the pen and write us the definitive memoir of the American songbook of the 20th century one day. No Steely Dan stuff, just a whimsical survey from Scott Joplin through the Bebop era and how it informed their journey.

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 14:37:42 ET
Posted by: Bill,

Damn, I'd forgotten how Donald is a fine writer of prose as well as songs, and a keen musical historian to boot. It's been a while since we've seen him pen something like this and I've missed it. Made me want to head over to df.com and read some of these: http://www.donaldfagen.com/writing.php

I also saw an interview with DF from last month that I managed to overlook before: http://www.donaldfagen.com/news.php

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 14:29:29 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Jim, I don't think of you at all at all as the Dandom police, just a Host and as such, just like if I invited you to our home, you'd have to just savour the antipasto and not pee on the prayer rug. Simple requests. Hell, The All-Knowing, All-Seeing Rajah himself, Star of the East, Light of Daibu and former doorman of The Grotto in the sub-basement of the Statler-Hilton Hotel in beautiful downtown Cleveland, Ohio is 10 times the pain in the ass than you could ever be.

Happy Holidays to you and yours.

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 14:24:14 ET
Posted by: bill,

Sorry, Frets, in the time it took for me to type and post that, you beat me to it.

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 14:23:33 ET
Posted by: bill,

Well, in the time it took for me to type and post that,

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 14:22:59 ET
Posted by: BillfromPgh,

I guess I'm the first to post this:
DF's obit of Ike Turner on Slate
http://www.slate.com/id/2180162/

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 14:21:47 ET
Posted by: frets,

Fagen tribute to Ike Turner:

http://www.slate.com/id/2180162/fr/rss/

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 12:41:18 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

>
> Oh sorry bluebook police, let me make that Dangential:
>
> Don't forget to vote for your favorite Steely Dan drummers!
>

No worries, Geoff, I definitely got the message a while back now. That's why I barely post here any more. Too bad more than a couple of people have never "gotten" what I've been talking about for the past 6-7 years and still think I'm the police.

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 12:31:48 ET
Posted by: Geoff, Wiggy office

Don't forget to vote for your favorite drummers!

http://www.moderndrummer.com/contest.php?id=800000033

Oh sorry bluebook police, let me make that Dangential:

Don't forget to vote for your favorite Steely Dan drummers!

http://www.moderndrummer.com/contest.php?id=800000033


geoff

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 12:29:56 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Here's a link to an entertaining story about Irving Azoff. I'm sure as you read this, you will find it becomes very apparent why Becker and Fagen have connected with him in various capacities through the years.

http://www.eaglesfans.com/info/articles/irving_azoff_this_is_your_life.htm

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 11:54:23 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago, formerly of urbana

I'm sure more than a few of you will say, "Ohhhhh, that's right...!!" after the following:

======

I don't believe Fogelberg ever appeared on a Steely Dan album. Although Fogelberg's connection is one hop away from Steely Dan, Fogelberg would have a significant impact on someone later significant in Becker and Fagen's careers and that of many others.

Fogelberg, a student at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, hooked up with local East Central Illinois booking agent Irving Azoff. They bot mutually helped each other move on to L.A. and hit the big time, although it took Fogelberg a bit longer to catch on. Prior to that, Azoff's biggest act was REO Speedwagon.

Amusingly enough to us Danfans, Azoff is a native of Danville, Illinois which is also the hometown of Dick and Jerry Van Dyke.

I suspect with Azoff's chutzpah, he would have made it big no matter what, but it was with Fogelberg that he apparently went to a new level.

For the 15-plus years I lived in Urbana, I got to hear more than a few stories about Azoff's early days in East Central Illinois. For those of you familiar with the Red Herring Coffeehouse at the Channing-Murray Foundation, that was a frequent venue for Fogelberg and Azoff.

Of course, Azoff has been Steely Dan's, Walter's and Donald's manager off and on during the past 30-plus years, most notably during the time of "Aja". And of course, Azoff started and headed Giant Records as well. Giant was, of course, Steely Dan's label for "Alive in America" and "Two Against Nature" and was Becker's label for "Eleven Tracks of Whack".

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 11:40:58 ET
Posted by: angel,

For me, Dan Fogelberg will always be entwined with Tim Weisberg. They did two compilations togther, "Twin Son's of Different Mothers" (with the hit song, "Power of Gold" on it) and then almost 20 years later, "No Resemblence Whatsoever". Both CD's are worth a spin. I downloaded songs from both on my MP3 player and they are both in the rotation. It's a real shame to lose him.

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 11:01:22 ET
Posted by: Dan Historian, the states

I grew up in the Midwest, and there's a memory I have of being in a Montgomery Ward seeing a shopper picking out a Dan Fogelberg cassette. Why did that memory stay with me all these years? Because it captured the decadence of the time and place.

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 09:41:21 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

CJ, a quick search of IMDb reveals these listings for Dan Fogelberg on soundtracks...

1. About Schmidt (2002) (writer: "Longer" (1971))

2. Urban Cowboy (1980) (writer: "Times Like These") (performer: "Times Like These")

3. FM (1978) (performer: "There's A Place In The World For A Gambler")

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 08:17:10 ET
Posted by: Greg Brady, TV Land

Fogelberg totally ripped me off with that song Longer.

My song:

Clowns never laughed before
Beanstalks never grew
Ponies never ran before
'Till I met you



His song:


Longer than there've been fishes in the ocean
Higher than any bird ever flew
Longer than there've been stars up in the heavens
Ive been in love with you.



Now tell me he would have come up with that on his own without seeing 4000 reruns of the Brady Bunch.

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 08:11:05 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, resident neocon

I had Same Old Lang Syne in my playlist during our Christmas Party Saturday. Very sad news indeed.

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 07:31:00 ET
Posted by: cj,

Did Dan Fogelberg have a song in the movie FM? Anyway what a great song Longer is.

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 01:49:19 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

Also, re DF, uh, Dan Fogelberg...

To this day I've never forgotten this classic Bloom County strip and Berke Breathed himself has it posted at his site as one of his favorite strips of all time:

http://www.berkeleybreathed.com/Images/fav_strip3_full.jpg

Date: Mon, December 17, 2007, 01:03:24 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ

Doing some poking about re Dan Fogelberg and finding a couple SD connections. Not startling connections, mind you, but...
______________________________________________

Dan Fogelberg Loses Battle With Cancer
by Paul Cashmere - December 16 2007
http://www.undercoverhd.com/news/Story.aspx?id=3653

. . . .

Fogelberg was born Daniel Grayling Fogelberg on August 13, 1951. In 1971, at the age of 20, he was discovered by the man who was going to go on to be a powerhouse of the music industry, IRVING AZOFF. Azoff and Fogelberg moved to California and in 1972, Dan released his debut album 'Home Free'.

Irving is a man who nurtured talent, and with patience, his belief in Fogelberg paid off when the 1974 album 'Souvenirs' became an American hit.
______________________________________________

http://danfogelberg.com/fullcircle.html

Elliot Scheiner, who has won Grammys working with the Eagles and Steely Dan, mixed the album. He's one of the best and is the reason the album sounds so good.
______________________________________________

There could be more (and I suspect there probably are), but those were just a couple that immediately jumped out at me with just a quick perusal.

Date: Sun, December 16, 2007, 23:46:42 ET
Posted by: oleander, possibly you

The Ambient Dan Meter is in the red these days, eh?

While driving this evening, I heard Melinda Penkava's "Word for Word" on American Public Media. Not a bad program, but I 'bout jumped lanes when I heard the theme--Janie Runaway. Go to http://wordforword.publicradio.org/ to hear how they theme-ized it.

Date: Sun, December 16, 2007, 22:09:04 ET
Posted by: The Big Guy, Brisbane, Australia

I discovered Dan Fogelberg's music around the same time as SD - must've been 1975. I loved his song "Same Old Lang Syne;" the most touching and heart-ripping lyrics. I could totally relate to the lost loves of my high school years. Where are you Margot Morris?

RIP. The heavens hold the talent for one of the most monster jams ever. Hope I can get tickets when the time comes.

Date: Sun, December 16, 2007, 21:08:15 ET
Posted by: I just read that, USA

Dan Fogelberg has died.

Date: Sun, December 16, 2007, 16:42:57 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Quincy Jones wrote the "Ironside"
theme and John Parker wrote the
"CHIPS" theme.
King of the World - Will Smith.
77 Million opening weekend.
Thanks for the link Gretch!
Hey Don & Walt, how about a
new live version of "King of the
World" for the summer 2008 tour!
Mr. Fagen, how about "Blue Lou"
as the instrumental opener for
your 2nd set for the Fall Fagen
2008 tour!!!! ;O)

Date: Sun, December 16, 2007, 16:13:26 ET
Posted by: Instrumental,

What does SD use on those middle instrumentals on King of the World? Must be a synth? It is spacey and otherwoldly. Mike Post is a keys/synth man, he did alot of 1970's themes, maybe Ironside & CHIP's? Might have gotten them both from King of the World.

Date: Sun, December 16, 2007, 14:48:21 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Raj-
I believe it's Lou Marini.
Known in jazz circles as -
"Blue Lou"!

Date: Sun, December 16, 2007, 14:42:06 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu - How Embarrassing!

Boy what a Sunday morning
"Raymond Burr" brain fart!
Jerry Grossman does a killer
version of the "other" Raymond
Burr TV Theme - "Perry Mason"!

Please pardon my dust.

Date: Sun, December 16, 2007, 14:34:20 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

I always thought that the
beginning of the "CHIPS" theme
was lifted heavily from Quincy
Jones' "Ironside" theme!

-Jerry Goodman virtuoso violinist
from the The Flock and the jazz
fusion Mahavishnu Orchestra does
a killer version of "Ironside"
live. Drop-dead stunner.

Date: Sun, December 16, 2007, 14:29:27 ET
Posted by: Katy Did,

Rajah -

Amidst a box of cassettes in the hallway closet I found a copy of the soundtrack to "Glengarry..." with no sleeve/no liner notes just the plastic box.

"Blue Lou" sounds fantastic. The alto player - outrageously good! Who the hell is he?

Do you know the band personnel?

Awesome!

Katy Did

Date: Sun, December 16, 2007, 14:16:28 ET
Posted by: maybe THAT's the root source?,

Omega Man-->King of the World-->several parts of Ride Like the Wind (Chris Cross).

Also, King of the World (middle instrumental, maybe tenor sax?)--> parts of Theme music for "Chips", while Eric Estrada and the other guy Wilcox? tool down the 405...

Date: Sun, December 16, 2007, 13:50:14 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

BTW -
"Omega Man" = "King of the World"?
I don't see why not. This hugely
popular film was released in 1971.
Plenty of time for Don and Walt to
take in the movie and let it seep
into their consciousness before
preparing "Countdown". "King of
the World" was a crowd pleaser live
and played heavily during the 74
tour.

Date: Sun, December 16, 2007, 13:36:18 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Sunny Malibu - Sorry - No Snow

kulee -
Ron Grainer's soundtrack to
"The Omega Man" is considered by
many as the greatest soundtrack
ever recorded. It really is remarkable.
Only 3000 CD copies were pressed in
2001. It now regularly sells for over
$250! Luckily, I got mine for $19.99
when it was first released. Highly
recommended if you can track one down.

"One of the lasting artifacts of the film is composer Ron Grainer's beautiful pop-flavored score, which mixes a witch's brew of elements (baroque, pop, jazz, avant garde and straight dramatic orchestral scoring) into a seamless and highly melodic whole. Launching with a gorgeously elegiac baroque theme, Grainer's score boasts distinctive and accessible melodies for Neville, the vampire Family, and the orphaned remnants of humanity that Neville discovers have been hiding from them both. With strong orchestral performances, unusual percussion effects and the distinctive sounds of two vintage electric organs, Grainer's The Omega Man score earns its reputation as one of the most asked-for and unforgettable genre scores of the '70s."

Date: Sun, December 16, 2007, 12:49:11 ET
Posted by: Craig B.,

A chilling moment...KJAZZ,the local jazz only station out of LA for the last 100 years played DF's Walk btw Raindrops yesterday. That was a first for me

Date: Sun, December 16, 2007, 11:22:43 ET
Posted by: Chan, The Frozen Tundra

"Snowbound lets sleep in today, wake me up when the Pats come out to play"

Date: Sat, December 15, 2007, 19:32:25 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, Calm before the storm

Blue Lou shares a resemblence to Kenyon Hopkin's theme to "The Hustler" and Bernard Herrmann's score to "Taxi Driver".

Mark in Boston

Date: Sat, December 15, 2007, 18:06:10 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Blue Lou bears a strong resemblence to Deacon Blues.

Date: Sat, December 15, 2007, 16:35:21 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, news of the world

http://noted.blogs.com/westcoastmusic/2007/12/steely-dan-a-ne.html

Reason to be cheerful.

G

Date: Sat, December 15, 2007, 15:29:25 ET
Posted by: kuleebaba, "I Am Legend"

Just saw the latest (third) version of the movie last night. Good but depressing, and somewhat faithful to the book. I liked the "Omega Man" version better, but who can argue with Charleton Heston's one-liners!

The author Richard Matheson is pretty influential (dozens of movies based on his stuff, Twilight Zone episodes, etc.)

The book (written in '54) was pretty influential also (for example, it was the inspiration for "Night of the Living Dead").

I wouldn't be surprised if our favorite Mssrs. had read it a long time ago...

Date: Sat, December 15, 2007, 15:21:44 ET
Posted by: Prussian Blue,

Raj, good review. Which of the SD/DF studio record's songs does it most resemble, musically and can you speculate on which song or songs might have evolved musically from Blue Lou, if any?

Date: Sat, December 15, 2007, 15:01:44 ET
Posted by: Grrrrrr, Humbug Hell

I could possibly be cheered up by some porcini risotto and creme brulee at a nice cozy spot. Anyone?

Date: Sat, December 15, 2007, 14:41:07 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Chin up, Grrrl, remember the holidays do eventually come to a close, thank goodness.

Blue Lou. I have listened now quite few times and am ready to render my golden opinion. I know you're all hanging on my every word here for this...

Blue Lou on record is a companion piece to the great Glengarry Glenross libretto, a sad tale of greed and deceit set in the real estate business of the last decade, or maybe 15 years ago. Real estate is by all accounts a nasty and cut-throat affair, no matter what the economy or setting. Glengarry is very reminicient of Death of a Salesman, a collection of losers trying their damndest to make a sale, sans scruples of any kind, omniverous, bereft of principle but also inexorably stripped of the dreams with which they may have set out.

The Blue Lou Donald gives us starts out on lonely one note touches and ends up with a bravado of horns. This song is an enigma, which do we embrace? The languid and lonely intro or the brash coda?

We put it to you, Dear Dandom...

Date: Sat, December 15, 2007, 13:37:40 ET
Posted by: grrrrr, retailsucks.com

Losing my patience with gift wrapping, whining toddlers and people actually sneezing on me! Let this season move on!!! I hate the public!!

Date: Fri, December 14, 2007, 15:14:59 ET
Posted by: Bill from Pittsburgh, reading the Stylus article

The author missed one obvious reference (illustrated with a cartoon in one of the early Steely Dan Songbooks, as I recall):

>>After closing time at the Guernsey Fair I detect the El Supremo from the room at the top of the stairs

Absolutely baffling. A pitch-black rock vamp about self-centered L.A. movie star types with too much money and not enough sense, “Show Biz Kids” opens with these bizarre but evocative lines. According to a Google search, the Guernsey Fair is a county fair in Old Washington, Ohio held annually since 1847, but your guess is as good as mine as to why Becker and Fagen would reference this particular event. I always picture El Supremo as an obese carnival administrator, crouched behind a card table, counting the money he’s made off all the circus freaks at the fair below, but it could also be a reference to a El Supremo Dominico, a small-time Texas cigar manufacturer. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

C'mon, now, the El Supremo is a distinctive and familiar 70's aroma, detectable if you haven't used the classic towel-under-the-door trick. We know you're smokin' wherever you are!

Date: Fri, December 14, 2007, 15:03:46 ET
Posted by: Bill from Pittsburgh,

Just read a couple reviews of Will Smith's new film I Am Legend and now what I've got stuck in my head is "Hello one and all, ..."

I always assumed King of the World was set in a post-nuclear war world but it would fit into this film's plague-oriented scenario too.

Date: Fri, December 14, 2007, 14:44:17 ET
Posted by: Prussian Blue,

Nothing in there about the protagonist of Blue Lou? Anybody wanna crack at it?

Date: Fri, December 14, 2007, 14:23:26 ET
Posted by: D, H

I always thought the book of numbers, etc. were on the counter at Rudy's.

Date: Fri, December 14, 2007, 13:18:33 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Pinky-lad, 38? Brrr... well that's just, "a fine soft day," here in New England. Here's wishing you and your 3 darling girls the best of this and any season to come you old reprobate. Hope to see you again soon.

Date: Fri, December 14, 2007, 13:13:26 ET
Posted by: W1P, The Valley

Rajah, it's cold here -- down to 38 last night!

Date: Fri, December 14, 2007, 12:40:46 ET
Posted by: Rajah, winter wonderland

Chris - I always thought the Black Cow protagonist was either at his own place or the digs he shares with the Wayward One.

But one thing for sure, you are correct, cannabis sativa breath, the AJA album was a journey inward, of self-reflection, of coming to a real understanding of yourself, warts and all. That Rolling Stone reviewer who called it empty or vapid or whatever could not, if he had attempted with the entire force of his own soul, have gotten it more in error. The AJA album reveals to the listener a path to understanding your own bad self. And that's not especially pretty or easy for most of us. Unless you're one of these perfect people who I really don't think exist at all, at least not in this veil anyway.

Date: Fri, December 14, 2007, 12:32:21 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

This has been posted before, but it's such a great piece and is worth a re-read (which is what I just did.)

Top Ten Obscure Steely Dan Lyrics
http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/staff_top_10/top-ten-obscure-steely-dan-lyrics.htm

My favorite entry which made me say "holy shit!" out loud (why yes I have been smoking pot why do you ask?):

8. Black Cow
"On the counter by your keys
Was a book of numbers and your remedies
One of these
Surely will screen out the sorrow
But where are you tomorrow?"

By the time of 1977’s Aja Steely Dan had moved past intimate tales of pornographers, and were painting expansive, irony-laced portraits of drunks and losers, like the unnamed narrator of “Black Cow,” who in the opening verses contemplates raiding his estranged lover’s drug stash, or calling her friends to find a date, but decides against it, realizing that though “one of these” may “screen out the sorrow,” she’ll still be gone tomorrow. Simple enough—but then you wonder, what’s he doing in her house?

Date: Fri, December 14, 2007, 10:27:55 ET
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Date: Wed, December 12, 2007, 22:54:29 ET
Posted by: Snarky, ground

Review of Carolyn Leonhart's new release

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=27813

Date: Wed, December 12, 2007, 18:58:59 ET
Posted by: Let's Not forget,

Ike & Tina Turner

(Obvious why I thought of this pair)

Date: Wed, December 12, 2007, 16:54:17 ET
Posted by: DWB, here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFALoky6h1U


hadn't youtubed for Steely Dan in ages but came upon these from the manassassssss

wow

sorry if already posted in here, didn't scroll down far enough

Date: Wed, December 12, 2007, 16:34:59 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

Milli Vanilli? Jesus, do you guys write for Leno?

Date: Wed, December 12, 2007, 13:05:12 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

"I was really discouraged by this show when I found out the "kids" are all professional [fixed] actors and are given the answers ahead of time."

50s Quiz Show scandals

Milli Vanilli

now this...

Date: Wed, December 12, 2007, 10:58:14 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, Snowbound

Anyone watch Who Wants to Be a Millionaire hosted by Meredith Vieira last night? Don't worry, but I did not, but a co-worker told me this morning that one of the questions was what band are Walter Becker and Donald Fagen in. The person didn't know and had to call for help. Their helper was only 60% sure it was Steely Dan. Made me laugh. I believe it was the $4000 question. How do I get on these shows?

Once in awhile my kids watch Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader. I'm not bragging but I get 100% of the questions - I mean come on. Yet I'm always amazed at some of the contestants that say they have college degrees from respected schools getting the easiest questions wrong. I was really discouraged by this show when I found out the "kids" are all proffesional actors and are given the answers ahead of time.

Date: Wed, December 12, 2007, 09:36:48 ET
Posted by: Craig B,

SueDave's post about Levon's battle back from cancer was in our local rag last week and mentioned Levon's musical friend Donald Fagen

Date: Wed, December 12, 2007, 02:03:16 ET
Posted by: new orleans police show,

One detective says to the other:

"Don't go pretzeling up my logic."

Date: Wed, December 12, 2007, 01:22:11 ET
Posted by: Warped One Pink, San Diego

Yes my mind is warped. I believe that Hank is better than one of the three and that had Hank decided to move to New York he probably would have gotten "better gigs" -- but that's a function of geography not ability

Date: Wed, December 12, 2007, 01:02:38 ET
Posted by: Dominic, US

.

Date: Tues, December 11, 2007, 23:26:09 ET
Posted by: suedave, this headline caught my eye

A warning about town cars!

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/343066_towncars11.html?source=mypi

Also heard a bit of a story about Levon Helm today on NPR's Fresh Aire. The program talked about his new album and how his daughter Amy encouraged him to record again after his voice returned...after helping him make it thru radiation etc for throat cancer. Talk about an inspiring story...

Date: Tues, December 11, 2007, 19:49:55 ET
Posted by: Another prick, in the wall

W1P-Boy, you're really grabbing at straws with the Ace Freely analogy. Ace doesn't get great gigs. He was just the co-founder of a very famous rock group. If Easton wasn't in a cover (sorry, I mean tribute) band you wouldn't even be talking about him. That's how warped your mind is.

Date: Tues, December 11, 2007, 19:12:20 ET
Posted by: W1P, Merry Kissmas

So does Ace Frehley -- so I guess he's a better guitarist

Date: Tues, December 11, 2007, 18:48:27 ET
Posted by: Hutch, not in England

Couldn't get over to the show. Definitely will get the DVD.

There are serious rumo(u)rs of a tour. Page has a good deal of new material ready to go according to a recent interview.

This is a good sum-up of the evening...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk:80/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=501189&in_page_id=1773

Date: Tues, December 11, 2007, 17:00:14 ET
Posted by: J.J. Putz, Seattle

W1P-And which one is that? All three of those guys get a lot better gigs then Mr. Easton gets.

Date: Tues, December 11, 2007, 01:29:17 ET
Posted by: W1P, New York

And so is one of the three mentioned below

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 23:57:35 ET
Posted by: kid Clean, @home

Page & Plant

Anyone across the pond go to the show?


KC

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 23:08:38 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

A very overlooked duo:

Kenny Dorham, Joe Henderson


Dorham just before his classic albums with Henderson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIL1GLFfBH4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz_i1N2XYZw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hVbEDRoxSE


This version of Escapade is not exactly Our Thing, but IMAGINE a smooth trumpet and a much better tenor sax

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DecfGlfBSRY

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 22:39:44 ET
Posted by: Fact,

W1P- If Hank Easton moves to New York City he's just another guitar player.

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 22:04:15 ET
Posted by: Meatloaf, two out three ain't bad...but

Why isn't the Herculean Hugh McCracken ever brought up in any of these gee-tar discussions? He was on some of the best songs, too numerous to list here. But he was a key contributor on Scam, which to many was Steely at its best.

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 21:44:27 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Thought the hockey talk might draw you out Woody.

Very off topic stuff, except that Orr, like the Two, was a genius who was recognized as such by everyone in his business. A friend gave me a disc of Orr career highlights a couple of months ago and it really brought home how far ahead he was.

Hockey fan or not, just youtube some Bobby Orr.

I was listening the other day to the Gaucho title track in 5.1 surround with special attention on the bass. I had't realized how good WB's playing is on that. I'm not a bass player, so I'm not listening the same way, but that sounds different than anything else I've heard him play.

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 20:04:08 ET
Posted by: W1P, South of the Border

Is it OK to have a respectful disagreement? Whatever the "truth" is, my personal subjective opinion (which, as we know, has zero value or validity) is thatI agree with two out of three. And there ain't no way I'm ever gonna love you.

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 18:39:04 ET
Posted by: The Truth,

Easton = BIG FISH small pond

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 18:37:25 ET
Posted by: Another prick, in the wall

W1P- Sorry but Easton isn't better then any of those guys. Period!

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 18:13:10 ET
Posted by: W1P, Pacific Beach

I agree with on dos outta tres

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 16:28:17 ET
Posted by: BigAdios,

W1P- Hank Easton is pretty good. But he has nothing over Herington, Krantz or Zingg when it comes to playing those solos.

Is that back up singer (Ruby?) wearing a mullet in that video?

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 16:02:03 ET
Posted by: Album Pairs, yoy

Remember when they sold two albums on one cassette?

Can't Buy/Countdown
Katy/Scam
Aja/Gaucho

Pretzel you had to buy standalone. And it was only 33 minutes to boot. No value there.

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 14:43:21 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA

Hank Easton is pretty good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZs4pK-aBuE

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 13:29:30 ET
Posted by: some obvious ones,

Skunk and Denny
Carolyn and Cindy

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 12:04:10 ET
Posted by: Woodman, Ottawa

Great duos;

Starsky and Hutch
Batman and Robin
Davis and Coltrane
Dizz and Charlie
Orr and anyone else who was on the ice.

Funny Orr story #1 - the recent Hockey Hall of Fame inductess saw 2 defensemen (Scott Stevens and Al MacInnes) start their careers together in junior hockey. The commentator asked if there were ever a better junior defense duo, to which the analyst replied; "Orr and whoever it was that played with him". The "whoever" happened to be the show's director's father.

Funny Orr story #2 - Bobby Hull (a giant in NHL as well - and this story takes place in 67 when Hull was at the height of his career), complained to the ref that "this kid Orr had the puck for the whole first period". The ref asked Hull what to do. Hull replied: "drop two pucks, give one to Orr and the rest of us will play with the other".

Funny Orr story #3 - after the game in which Gordie Howe played/saw Orr for the first time, a reporter asked Gordie what he thought Orr's best move of the night was. Howe's reply? "When he put on his f@#$'in skates".

I don't have my box set yet, so hockey is keeping me going until then. No disrepect to Gretzy or Lemieux, or Howe or Hull, but Orr simply didn't raise the bar - he created a whole different one. Bobby Clarke once said: "it's a shame really, he was too good for the NHL".

Nuff said - so how is the box set?

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 09:53:29 ET
Posted by: Hutch, rva

Nice to go back and revisit some of Don's writings occasionally.

http://www.donaldfagen.com/writing_items.php?itemID=21

I envy a lot of my friends who aren't news junkies like I am. They seem to lead a really care-free life!
So I have to say that with Romney saying there's no Freedom without Religion and Huckabee declaring that God has already chosen him to be President, it's really refreshing to put all these disturbing thoughts behind you and put yourself in a good mood by reading a little Don Fagen biographical insight...

Like you had a Mango Cooler.

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 08:16:06 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

"A bunch?"

O-K.

Date: Mon, December 10, 2007, 00:22:42 ET
Posted by: Eric Mangenius,

Tom Brady's team. CHEATERS!

Date: Sun, December 09, 2007, 22:48:01 ET
Posted by: Tom Brady, Perfection and Grace

Thirteen and 0

Date: Sun, December 09, 2007, 22:38:51 ET
Posted by: my favorite pairs, north south

Coke and Rum
Sausage and Beer
Twitch and Smoke
Brut and Charisma
Perfection and Grace
Salads and Sun
Pepper and Ratbone
Exhausting and Luscious
Languid and Bittersweet
Hats and Hooters
Socks and Shoes
William and Mary
Graphite and Glitter
Compassion and Vision
Wine and Kerosene
Jazz and Conversation

Date: Sun, December 09, 2007, 18:33:07 ET
Posted by: LA Concession,

Gretchen- Actually DF has done a bunch of those 'Midnight Ramble' shows. But it's a bit different when he shows up in a barn that barely fits 100 people. The Beacon fits three or four thousand. If he shows up at the Beacon and plays for Levon's show next March I'd be very surprised.

Date: Sun, December 09, 2007, 18:21:34 ET
Posted by: G, decking the halls

I was thinking perhaps Donald would be in on a Midnight Ramble or two....he seemed right at home at the casual setting in Bearsville. What a great show.

G

Date: Sun, December 09, 2007, 18:15:52 ET
Posted by: duos,

pumps and pearls

Date: Sun, December 09, 2007, 15:50:31 ET
Posted by: Steve, NY

Gretchen- If DF didn't show up this past March I doubt he'll show next March. He doesn't seem like he's into these kind of events. Especially when it's his wifes ex husband at the "Helm".

Date: Sun, December 09, 2007, 14:04:58 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, Old Saybrook

Ran across this item this morning......perhaps Donald will participate? Loved the atmosphere of the show last year!

http://www.livedaily.com/news/13297.html

G

Date: Sun, December 09, 2007, 11:25:15 ET
Posted by: A. Shove,

Cock and Bull

Date: Sun, December 09, 2007, 10:00:34 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, resident neocon

Ambush and a French Twist

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 22:59:03 ET
Posted by: SteveV, rainy singapore

Hey Annn...sorry to lose track lately....but The fagen box set is not on sale in Singapore.....

Warners did not issue it overseas...I have had my friend special order it...but am still waiting!!!!

have fun at America!!!!!....luv that 1972 stuffffff!!!

yowzah

coool duos

Max and 99

Lieber and Stoller

Hodder & porcaro

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 21:56:09 ET
Posted by: tonybass,

Mayweather and Hatton

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 19:33:03 ET
Posted by: HouDanFan, Houston

Koufax and Drysdale

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 16:06:21 ET
Posted by: duos,

Jordan and Pippen
Montana and Rice

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 13:59:27 ET
Posted by: steely fan, nj

It was not until Gold came out in '91 that I even knew True Companion really existed. I remember reading something pertaining to SD's split after Gaucho that Fagen had recorded the song for an upcoming movie, but never knew if it ever surfaced.

For the sake of completeness, I've owned the Glengarry soundtrack CD for a long time, but never got around to giving Blue Lou a listen. I'll cue it up on the Ipod after reading some of the posts here.

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 13:34:21 ET
Posted by: Fife, Baltimore, eh

I'm not so sure you could call hockey the sport of choice for the Dan. Way too many baseball fans here, not me though. I'm a devoted Ottawa Senators fan. I was a cook at the Deli across the street from the Civic Center where they played their first couple of seasons. Talk about getting slammed on game day!
As for True Campanion I'm sure after a few listens I'll love it just as much as I love everything else but I guess you never know about these things!

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 12:39:22 ET
Posted by: St. Louie Blues., Plager Brothers,

"Bubba" Beck? No, wouldn't have guessed with no clues, but if you said the Colorado "Hockey" Rockies I might have.

Looks like we got some other hockey fiends on this site wiring in (Senators). Hockey should be the official sport of Steely Dan?

Still nothing about Blue Lou?

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 12:22:51 ET
Posted by: Ken, Manhattan

Fife- True Companion irritates you? That's a first. I thought that this was one of the best songs that they ever did live.

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 11:11:11 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Sorry Fife, I didn't know whether it was Spezza and Alfredsson or Spezza and Heatley..or what. One thing, it was never Yashin and anyone.

You could grow to love True Companion in time.

St. Louie 'Barclay Plager' Blues...you could never guess who is coaching kids hockey RIGHT NOW in Hong Kong. I mean you could try, but would you ever really come up with Barry Beck ? It's true.

They've recently opened two new arenas here. There's organized men's, women's and kids hockey played by mostly ex pats...and over the p.a. they play Chain Lightning. Okay, that's not true...but I used to be PA announcer for a men's university soccer team and they played the Gaucho album before games.

I once played broomball with Bobby Orr. A strange game anyway, but to play it with him was more than odd. He was on a Gillete promotional tour. The greats are sometimes reduced to this. I kid you not, the next year we had Nadia Comaneci in (radio station stuff) and she was pushing jockey brand underwear. THAT brought the suits downstairs.

Blue Lou is on the Glengarry Glen Ross soundtrack. You can buy it for about $4 on Amazon.

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 10:38:16 ET
Posted by: Fife, Baltimore, eh

SS,
Heatley and Spezza

The Fagen box set is awesome! As far as the bonus CD it's going to take a few turns before I get used to some of it, for some reason True Companion really irratates me. Funny when you consider I must of seen Heavy Metal at least 5 times for it's music when it was first released.

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 09:51:54 ET
Posted by: St. Louie Blues,

What is an interpretation of Blue Lou? I am hoping for a boxed set for Xmas, but the suspense is killing me. I think I have heard it before but don't remember, was it on the Legends Collection?


SS

A Hockey Fiend in Hong Kong? Man, you ain't so bad after all! LOL

yeah, "What a Shame about Orr", DONE at age 30. A giant of the game, arguably greater than The Great Greatzky. Because he could do it all.

Is there any Hong Kong Hockey? Any ice rinks, which there probably are for figure skaters and amateur players?

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 06:41:10 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Bill, thank you for that link to the Beatles' freak, man, he is something, wow, having lots of fun over there...

blu - the Fagen boxed set is worth it just for the 4th disc in there, very nicely cleaned up versions of the 80s tunes all in one convenient location, I wish the Finer Things was in there but Blue Lou, omg, it's just exquisite, I sometimes wish Donald would just chuck this pop rock thing and go for it, jazzman.

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 01:36:19 ET
Posted by: Raven, laptop treetop

How about

hit it and quit it

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 01:00:46 ET
Posted by: DanFan98, Houston

The Captain and Tenille.

Date: Sat, December 08, 2007, 00:36:16 ET
Posted by: Spinner,

Paddlefoot was the DOG.

What am I, chopped liver?

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 23:36:12 ET
Posted by: Dave From Acquisitions,

Gumby and Pokey

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 22:54:24 ET
Posted by: bluprintblu, in the graveyard with Lenny B

Okay, this shit is just funny! And whoever brought up Clutch Cargo and Paddlefoot, man! That is crazy. Nothing moving but the lips. And while I'm here could I ask if anyone is enjoying the Donald Fagen trilogy? Is it a must? Just asking. It's cold in Cali.

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 22:43:18 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

With respect, Should Have Been...

Hockey's great pairs usually played alongside each other, true.

Orr, the innovator, played anywhere he liked. It is not so much the positions they played as the way their names will be remembered. When I think of Esposito, it's Orr who comes to mind.

The all food team....Adam Oates, Jim Korn, Steven Rice, Chico Maki (that's sushi), Ron Plumb, Don Cherry, Milan Kraft (dinner) ...who would presumaby be coached by Bill and Bun Cook.

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 21:17:40 ET
Posted by: It should have been,

SS

Esposito, Hodge and Cashman! Orr played D. You could say Orr and Vadnais on D. But Orr probably did give tons of assists to Espo.

Brett Hull and Adam Oates. Close enough to Hall and Oates.

In music

Sonny and Cher
McFadden and Whitehead (Ain't No Stoppin Them Now)
Stevie and Syreeta (did they record one together?)
Mickey and Sylvia
Steve and Eydie
McCoo and Davis
Loggins and Messina
Mouth and McNeil (How Do You Do?)
England Dan and John Ford Coley (not really--"pseudonyms")
Casey (KC) and Finch (of the Sunshine Band)
Brewer and Shipley (Tokin' Over the Line)
Phil and Don (Everly)

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 20:44:46 ET
Posted by: steelydoc,

silver key and red door

Jackson + sweetness

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 20:43:28 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Mark, I would have been disappointed if anyone other than you filled in the details on That Thing You Do. I never new (before yesterday when I went looking) the song actually charted pretty well.

Gretzky and Kurri
Hull and Oates
Bossy and Trottier
Naslund and Bertuzzi
Esposito and Orr
(shoots....and scores !!!)

Stand and deliver
sit and wait
run and gun
bob and weave

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 20:18:18 ET
Posted by: duos,

Sweet Treats and Surprises
Blues and Elvis
Me, Slinky Redfoot
The Diamond. Oh, and the Pearl.

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 20:13:15 ET
Posted by: duos,

Klaus and The Rooster
Chino and Daddy Gee

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 16:09:52 ET
Posted by: bill again,

that should have read "Revolution #9"
Number nine
number nine
number nine

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 16:08:54 ET
Posted by: BillfromPgh,

We interrupt this litany of classic duos (Batman and Robin? Ham and Rye?) to bring you this link to musicologist Alan Pollack's dissection of every Beatles song ever recorded, even Revolution #(that one is particularly interesting):

http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/awp-notes_on.shtml

I'd love to turn this guy loose on Don and Walt, but it would take at least another 10 years for him to complete the project.

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 16:06:35 ET
Posted by: George, in Paris

Martini & Rossi

Sacco & Vanzetti

corn bread and beans

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 15:48:15 ET
Posted by: D, H

Katy & Dr. Wu

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 15:23:30 ET
Posted by: Great duos,

And lets not forget Babs & Clean Willie and Gretchen & Rajah

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 14:42:59 ET
Posted by: DEACONBLUE,

Leterme & Milquet

De wever & De Winter

Bush & Cheney ...and all those Nazi's in Washington DC

Great song from Walter! By the way: Who's on saxophone on that song?

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 13:59:50 ET
Posted by: AnonTwit, any major world

Rocky & Bullwinkle
Boris & Natasha
Bonnie & Clyde

Becker & Fagen!

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 13:42:18 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

Flotsam and Jetsam

Rainey and Purdie

Jan and Dean

Bogie and Bacall

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 13:03:41 ET
Posted by: steelydoc,

...red beans and rice...

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 12:45:03 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Janie & Melanie
Yvonne and the Angel of My Heart
Dean & Deluca

and the ultimate tandem:

Pizza and a Blow Job, not necessarily in that order.

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 12:19:29 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

So, that's three Godley and Cremes and a Whisky and Coke? LOL

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 12:02:51 ET
Posted by: My contribution , north

I'm not sure what exactly it is everyone's responding to, but...

Godley & Creme

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 12:02:44 ET
Posted by: My contribution , north

I'm not sure what exactly it is everyone's responding to, but...

Godley & Creme

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 12:02:26 ET
Posted by: My contribution , north

I'm not sure what exactly it is everyone's responding to, but...

Godley & Creme

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 11:16:15 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, Resident Neocon

Clutch Cargo and Paddlefoot
Race Bannen and Johnny
Ernie and Bert

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 10:25:18 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, brrrrrrrrrr

Boris and Natasha
Quickdraw McGraw and Baba Looey
Beanie and Cecil
Rowan and Martin


G

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 09:24:37 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

what about-

Ashford and Simpson

Lachey and Simpson

Cochran and Simpson....sweet tune in the early 90's -If the Glove Don't Fit...remember?

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 08:32:09 ET
Posted by: AnonTwit, Two places at once

Sonny & Cher
Donny & Marie

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 07:56:37 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo - very monsoonal!!

Brahms & Lidst?

Oh such a shame, Shame! She could've asked you to "Do it again" !!

:-)

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 06:56:26 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, It's Friday! It

Adam Schlesinger of Fountains of Wayne and Ivy did write it. He delivered exactly what Tom Hanks asked for - a Beatlesque tune that sounds like it was written in 1963. Adam is a Pop genius. That's Mike Viola of Boston-based Candybutchers singing lead vocals on the track. He's also an amazing pop songwriter.

Date: Fri, December 07, 2007, 06:41:53 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

A.Schlesinger?

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 23:52:41 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Raj, so right about That Thing You Do. Swell tune.

So, for 25 points and a place in the bonus round, who wrote it ?

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 22:23:47 ET
Posted by: bluprintblu, dream st.

Gram Parsons and EmmyLou Harris.

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 22:04:18 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

Boyce & Hart

Gamble & Huff



Will Birch & John Wicks

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 21:29:37 ET
Posted by: bluprintblu, dream st.

John Doe and Exene Cervenka.

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 19:15:37 ET
Posted by: Let's not forget,

And who could forget the sounds created by Pork and Beans?

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 19:02:09 ET
Posted by: bikemann17, nj

Abbott and Costello? Lawrel and Hardey? Now THAT was music!

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 18:58:48 ET
Posted by: Let's not forget,

Frick & Frack, Frank & Ernest, Frank & Stein...

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 18:29:45 ET
Posted by: J.J. Putz, Seattle

Jagger/Richards, Bono/Edge, Joe Strummer/Mick Jones, Johnny Marr/Morrissey (the Smiths)

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 17:39:21 ET
Posted by: Gustav Mahler, Up the Hudson

What about George and Ira Gershwin? What about Rodgers and Hammerstein? What about Hal David and Burt Bacharach? What about Page and Plant? Lennon and McCartney.

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 17:34:08 ET
Posted by: Shame, about me

Oh Ann,
I have tried making love with SD tracks playing in the background but I have to keep STOPPING to fully appreciate the nuances of the rich harmonic structures. Needless to say, the wife left long ago.

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 17:00:48 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, Resident Neocon

John/Taupin

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 16:05:21 ET
Posted by: Lutz, SF

Zawinul & Shorter
Michael and Randy Brecker
Keith and Mick

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 15:46:36 ET
Posted by: Girl Margaret, Cortlandt Manor, NY

Hall and Oates.

Seals and Crofts.

Maybe that's just me.

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 13:23:59 ET
Posted by: Steve M, scotland

I'd have to go for Difford and Tillbrook from Squeeze

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 12:46:03 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

John and Paul, Rogers and Hart, Becker and Fagen, Lieber and Stoller, Johan Sebastian and Bach, Cole and Porter. Best duos come forth. Great souls create great music.

Others you can name?

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 12:26:25 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

Am I On and Dry- Thank you for your extensive list and comments...I can hear what you guys are hearing...but... I think you are listening more to guitar sounds, drum beats and arrangements rather that actual songwriting. If you take out all the cool strings and Ringo's or Paul's creative drum beats a lot of the tunes you listed i.e You've Got to Hide Your Love Away and Norweigian Wood are very, very, very similar musically. But, you see, there is nothing wrong with that...that's what songwriters do. Don and Walter are no different. Now the differences between Pauls stuff and John's stuff is appearant and not a part of my argument.

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 12:04:55 ET
Posted by: Fife, Snowy Baltimore, eh

Gretchen and Raj,

You rock!

Fife and Mr.Sam

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 12:02:29 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Oh, darlin', ain't never gonna do it without yer Fez-on...

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 11:21:57 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo

Hi Dear Folks of Dandom,

Saturday sees me off back to the cold grey north of Manchester, for the second time this year. Unfortunately no nice reward at the end of this journey like there was last July (2 Dan concerts!). This time the old Dad needs me. However, I had requested the Off-Spring to order the DF box set from Amazon UK and was really looking forward to receiving it when I arrived. She had ordered some special import thing from the US via Amazon UK, but unfortunately received an email that it had been damaged in the post and returned. At this point, I'd give anything for a smudged signature copy...or ANY copy come to that. I suppose I'll have to scour the shops now in the hope that I can find it. Do any of you Brits out there know of any record shops stocking it?

Hey! Singapore Steve! Is there anywhere in the Lion City selling the box set? I've got 9 hours there on Saturday so I can hit Orchard Rd big time for a shot of retail therapy!

SD moment: We recently had a new teacher start at our school who's of Scottish origin but had been over 20 yrs in Australia. She's a divorced lady not too much younger than myself. I happened to throw in a comment one day about my fave band, to which she replied "Oh, I know them, they're my ex's favourite band. I spent my courting days with them playing in the background, so I tend to associate them with sex" ...... Well, at least now there's someone else out here in Head Hunter land who's actually heard of our heroes!

I suppose this could be the start of a new thread ......which is your favourite SD song to make love to????? Come on Rajah! This one is tailor-made for you!

Peace to all!

Ann

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 11:19:37 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

I guess, thank you, I sorta stopped trying to spell things correctly a long time ago.

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 11:18:20 ET
Posted by: The Wonders,

Rajah, did you mean, "anomaly?"

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 10:44:56 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Yikes, Big Fan, that is quite an anomoly, r u sure the tuner on that thing is calibrated correctly?

The Beatles saved rock n roll when it was kinda being pissed away there. And the first few hits, Please Please Me, She Loves You, Hold Your Hand, From Me to You, definitely through Hard Days Night remind me now of that movie which I just love, Tom Hanks', "That Thing You Do," which is such an early Lennon/McCartney ripoff but one that I personally really dig, it's just a simple little dittie but so very satisfying as a pop song, that Ringo backbeat, great innocent theme, a great resolve, yeah those three chords, wonderful and that's what the western world needed right after JFK got greased, the Beatles hit us at the perfect time, at a time we needed to believe in something pure and simple. Little did we know, as also in the case of JFK himself, that nothing is strictly what it seems to be.

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 09:00:21 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, way below freezing

The local Springfield classic rock station does a thing in the drive home slot called “You should have been there” playing “official” live recordings. How many times can you listen to Frampton Comes Alive cuts? Anyway I get in my truck the other day and Kid Charlemagne is on – and I realize it’s the live version from AIA. So that’s pretty cool – when was the last time you heard that on a commercial radio station?

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 07:30:44 ET
Posted by: Dry, analysis rules

Absolutely right. Proving that the Beatles didn't recycle or have a set style is just so easy it makes me think that anyone saying the opposite is just having a mischievous moment.

Date: Thurs, December 06, 2007, 05:09:34 ET
Posted by: Am I living on, the same planet?

If you’d picked any other band in the world and suggested they recycled their songs, I’d have understood… but The Beatles??????

How about this for dynamics:

Eleanor Rigby
Yellow Submarine
Tomorrow Never Knows
Being for the Benefit of Mr Kite!
Within You Without You
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da
Martha My Dear
Rocky Raccoon
Please Please Me
Yer Blues
Good Night
Piggies
All You Need Is Love
Come Together
Norwegian Wood
When I'm Sixty-Four
Because
Get Back
You Know My Name (Look up the Number)
I Am the Walrus
You've Got to Hide Your Love Away
Old Brown Shoe
Blackbird
Helter Skelter

Date: Wed, December 05, 2007, 20:19:03 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

Dry- example please...here are some post early Beatle's formula songs for you.. Let it be, Hey Jude, and Mac's own Maybe I'm Amazed...same songwriter same style...What about Sgt Pepper, Helter Skelter, Magical Mystery Tour? Great songs...not a whole lot of difference in style.

Date: Wed, December 05, 2007, 19:59:35 ET
Posted by: Dry, analysis rules

Bizarrely, once you get past the early days the Beatles are just about the BEST example of songwriters who didn't 'recycle' or have a 'style'.
Every tune, regardless of it's musical merits went off at an utterly different and unpredictable tangent. Their creativity was completely unfettered, a byproduct of the tensions of their wildly differing personalities.
With Becker and Fagen, I think we have two personalities that are fundamentally much closer together so their music developed it's particular potential within a more clearly defined 'zone'.
None the less valuable for that. The left field buzz that they brought to the table was in the realm of intertwining jazz and rock sensibilities and creating something that was greater than either.

And both songwriting partnerships had that hot line to God when it came to pulling melodies out of thin air that sound like familiar, thousand year-old friends the first time you hear them.

Date: Wed, December 05, 2007, 19:37:21 ET
Posted by: Brutus Charisma,

Raj -

There's 3 solid reasons, as far as I can tell, why Macca writes basically banal/hackneyed tunes today:

1) Never really continued to learn his craft - learn Orchestration(memorize/know "cold" the ranges/tessituras of ALL the orchetral instruments) and voicing/arranging techniques so that he can WRITE HIS OWN STRING/ORCHESTRAL ARRANGEMENTS INSTEAD OF HIRING GREAT ORCHESTRATORS/ARRANGERS LIKE JONATHAN TUNICK AND GEORGE MARTIN TO DO THEM FOR HIM, INSTEAD HE PUTS HIS NAME/FACE ON THE COVER (AS WITH "WORKING CLASSICAL") AND PRETENDS LIKE HE DID THEM.

2) He needs a writing partner (aka JL) to tell him when his stuff sucks and who takes absolutely no unnecessary shit from him.

3) He takes that Sir Paul bull too literally/seriously - we're all as good as our last offering, laddies.

4) He needs the adulation too much - it's superceded his desire to best himself.

Date: Wed, December 05, 2007, 16:07:19 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

Rajah- Agreed...and that was not meant to be a knock on the almighty Lennon/McCartney/Harrison machine. Even after Rubber Soul the formula was alive and well...just more mature and well honed with the years and studio hours.

Date: Wed, December 05, 2007, 13:22:23 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

tony - they were formulaic in their approach until about Rubber Soul. But what a great formula it was and I'm pretty certain Sir Paul would give his eye teeth for the ability to write one of those 3 minute gems today.

Date: Wed, December 05, 2007, 12:37:35 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

Actually- That is fact what you are saying about Fagan recycling tracks...he does it unconciously...as all, and I mean all, songwriters do. That's called a...style! Walter does not have enough solo material for you to make that comment.

By the way...the Beatles, considered by most, the most prolific songwriters of all time, rewrote the same 20 songs over and over again as a career. Just listen to there first several releases.

Date: Wed, December 05, 2007, 02:20:01 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Actually - if you're suggesting DF is reshaping his own earlier ideas to create 'new' songs, do you think he does it consciously or unconsciously ?

Connotation is everything. The shades I take from 'derivative' and 'recycle' suggest a lack of fresh ideas more than a defined/refined style, as I think Chris suggests.

Date: Wed, December 05, 2007, 00:00:56 ET
Posted by: Paul, USA

Fagen's horn charts are unmistakable. Some of the best in the business. I go into SD because of the groove and Fagen's voice. Personally, a Becker solo record just doesn't do it for me.

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 22:55:40 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

Actually, that's why Fagen's stuff is so much more popular, right? He's got the voice, and he's got the familiar re-writes of his stuff. People know what to expect and that's the way they like it. I don't think there's anything wrong with that; at a certain point in an artist's career, everything becomes a re-write, unless you're Miles Davis. And really, he only avoided it by surrounding himself with better, younger players and doing nothing but improv for a decade.

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 22:51:52 ET
Posted by: Actually, Derivation Alley

Donald the Deriver has probably only written about 15 to 20 COMPLETE songs if you were to condense all of the snippets, mu chords, riffs, back-beats, bass lines and in some cases full instrumentals (Blind That Day, Big Noise, Teahouse) that he has cleverly recycled and strategically sprinkled and spread over the 120+ song titles on the 9 SD albums plus the Fagen Trilogy. He is his own "Kanye West" in his own right, so to speak.

To the Walt "bashers": one thing you have got to say about 11 Tracks, it is so far out there, it is very tough to detect ANY recycling from the 9 SD albums. Truly "original"--such that it is.

Any observations of Walt Derivations on 11 Tracks?

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 20:26:20 ET
Posted by: prez logic, the memory bank

ILAA questions? At the DF show in March 1006 in LV Jon Herington, Michael Leonhart, and Keith Carlock came out for a meet and greet. I asked JH what his favorite SD solo to play was and was surprised when he answered Third World Man. Also, I asked ML about winning a grammy at 17. KC took quite a few questions about playing with SD, Sting, etc. All in all the Q & A was very informal and the boys in the band were super cool...they even posed for photos too.

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 20:16:32 ET
Posted by: Jolly Roger,

Not My - You have it wrong. "Everything Must Go" is "Big Noise New York" in disguise. Not Bright Lights.

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 17:29:18 ET
Posted by: Not My...., in Career Center @ work

Was it known prior to the release of the Trilogy that "Everything Must Go" is "Bright Lights, Big City" in disguise? I, for one, never made that connection until now.

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 17:17:09 ET
Posted by: warrenk,

i def agree on the lyrics part. and probably a lot of their songs really aren't that great; it's definitely the playing that allures me.

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 17:15:34 ET
Posted by: The Answer, Kansas

Toto's songs have shit lyrics. So they only tour places where they know they won't be understood. Their playing is amazing, of course. Toto: weak songs played with impeccable chops.

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 17:09:48 ET
Posted by: warrenk,

why the heck

does toto

only tour

in places

not called

America

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 17:01:38 ET
Posted by: web link, usa

http://www.imperiumi.net/news_2.php?id=5757


New Steve Lukather CD contains a song intended as a tribue to D & W.

http://www.imperiumi.net/news_2.php?id=5757

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 16:40:14 ET
Posted by: About the sames, usa

I wonder if they are still valid for US postage.

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 15:22:18 ET
Posted by: George, in Paris

The posts about the IGY stamps caught my attention, and with a little online elbow grease, I am now the proud owner of ten of them for a total cost of $5.45, including insured shipping, from www.drabel.com.

What a glorious time to be free.

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 14:17:36 ET
Posted by: Phil, zou

Yes Rajah, I mean the famous Kamakiriad outtakes,the never released Nightfly songs (The nighfly was supposed to be a double album and Morph a triple). Anything more will be welcome in fact as we probably all had the extra songs on the box set already.

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 13:57:09 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

You mean the online stuff as mentioned on the DVIs? Nope, tried hard to register and stuff but zip, zilch and nada. We need a computer genius...

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 13:24:53 ET
Posted by: Phil, maison

Hello there, I just had my copy of Donald's box set today and I was
wondering if any of you managed to get the extra material, I mean the extra extra , not the extra songs on the cd's, the extra stuff that should become available once you are registered.
Bonne soirée
Philippe

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 11:57:56 ET
Posted by: Toddbwf, Indianapolis

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Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 06:12:46 ET
Posted by: ps, ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efKzhcJCKpc

Earth Calling, a leonhart/escoffery composition

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 06:02:35 ET
Posted by: Gina, Sun Mountain

always fun to check this place only once a few days/weeks.
it helps to 'get' the current vibe, or those gone by.

talk about money's pure luxury in our part of the worlds.

re: Carolyn Leonhart. am spinning her new album now, If Dreams Come True, a collaboration between Carolyn and her husband Wayne Escoffery. Her singing is definitely on new planes and Escoffery's arrangements of existing jazz material and newly penned compositions by the couple can take the unexpected listener by a whirlwind. a safety belt is highly recommended :-)

no sweet loveable sing along jazz standards this time. nope.
personally, i dig these moods way better than the zillionst rendition of Funny Valentine and such.

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 05:50:14 ET
Posted by: cj,

aja
royal scam
gaucho
katy lied
cbat
cte
pl
tvn
emg

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 05:33:21 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

WarrenK:

It was actually a MySpace link. Here it is again for your convenience:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=15264442

Great clip IMHO.

Date: Tues, December 04, 2007, 00:51:33 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

I agree Chris. Those live CD’s
need to be mixed properly. Peter
Gabriel has it down to a science.
steelydoc – That story reminds me of
what Eddie Vedder used to do when he
toured in a van with Mike Watt. He
had this van tricked out with a turntable,
tape playback, a mic and a roof-top FM
broadcasting device. After the gig he
would get in the van and play old obscure
blues records over his rolling pirate radio
station while traveling to the next gig.
Always thought that was cool.

Date: Mon, December 03, 2007, 22:46:49 ET
Posted by: ILAA,

Several people mentioned a "Q & A" at the DF Band ILAA. What sorts of "Q's"? And were there any straight "A's" that we should be aware of?

It is tough for me to fathom what I would ask, for example, the horn player, Leonhart. There would obviously be plenty to ask if ILAA allowed you to deal directly with DF or WB for the session.

Date: Mon, December 03, 2007, 21:38:21 ET
Posted by: prez logic, CRW

ILAA...I sat in on a soundcheck, chatted with most of the band, enjoyed a private pre-show party, got sweet swag, had a front row center seat, met great fans from all over. Do it Again? Absolutely...

Date: Mon, December 03, 2007, 21:31:07 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower

here's a blog from a guy who is a sound mixer:

http://poochblog.evilentertainment.net/index.php

He's mixing for Linkin Park, and they do the concert CD thing a little differently...

"The band has decided to release a recording of the show every day and sell it. This means that they will sell a CD at the merchandise booth that will be blank, but it will have a web link that you can go download the show from the night before after 8 am. So what this means is that immeadiately after the show I will go to a bus that has been converted to a studio and work all night (while driving down the road) remixing the show I just did so that we can upload the show at 8 am in the next city."

Date: Mon, December 03, 2007, 20:22:20 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

Those "Instant Live" CDs really aren't that great. They're straight soundboards, so they sound incredibly flat and are somewhat poorly mixed as any good soundman will take the sound of the house into account. I prefer a decent audience recording any day.

Date: Mon, December 03, 2007, 19:37:49 ET
Posted by: concert stuff, texas california alaska

DF's argument would be that you couldn't guarantee something produced within 20 minutes after a concert would be any less "crappy" than a bootleg. CD-R or not, that becomes an official release if it has the artist's blessing and if it's only being sold at the concert, it gives great justification to obtaining a 2nd hand copy.

Date: Mon, December 03, 2007, 19:13:50 ET
Posted by: Milo, Meyer Sound

RE: ILAA

I take THIS after ANY Fagen or Steely Dan show instead of the "Meet & Greet" -

"My buddy went to the Hall & Oates concert this past Saturday, and immediately after the show, they were selling a 2-CD set of that concert for $20. CD-R, of course. They had to wait 20 minutes for the second disc to be done, but it was neat to be able to get that so soon after."

"It's relatively cheap to do, and the artists actually make a few bucks on these, plus it cuts down on the crappy bootleg concert recordings that are out there. It's a win-win situation for everyone."

And Donald whined that he didn't make any money off of his solo tour.

Boo-hoo

Date: Mon, December 03, 2007, 18:57:43 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, @home

RE: ILAA

I did the all access for the Cleveland show, I think it was $250 a ticket. An hour plus of sound check; Freddie did about 20 minutes of q & a; talked to the tour manager & sound guy; appetizers & bev's at a back room in the theater, some extra giveaways, the primo being an autographed photo; some quality alone time at the swag booth and my seat was first row right in front of Donald. Worth every penny.

KC

Date: Mon, December 03, 2007, 12:05:28 ET
Posted by: warrenk,

someone posted a link of a band covering Home At Last a while ago (not the one of the guy who played each instrument). It was on youtube but I can't find it. anyone know what i'm talking about?

Date: Mon, December 03, 2007, 08:57:17 ET
Posted by: AnonTwit, Chicago

I have a Walter Becker Signature from the Walking Distance Tour, and also a Fagen signature. Both are smudged.

Walter's smudge is better. You can't have a Steely Dan Signature mudge without Walter Becker. His smudge rocks.

Date: Sun, December 02, 2007, 16:22:44 ET
Posted by: C Willie, France

I'm a little late to that discussion of a few days ago - "mistakes on SD records" - there are two glaring ones I notice every time:

1. Boston Rag - in the middle where it breaks down to just an on-beat piano chord doubling a closed hat - one of those staggers, the piano and hat are right out with each other.

2. Brooklyn Owes The Charmer - near the end, they seem to have edited the master, cos the backing vocalists sing the beginning of "Brook-", the edit was done right on the beat and the backing vocal slightly anticipated it, hence got cut off.

Never understood how they could crucify themselves over their tracks and leave things like that in but as both the above were early albums, maybe they couldn't ride their deadlines so much back then.

Date: Sun, December 02, 2007, 14:02:25 ET
Posted by: The Wicked Librarian, Left Coast

Nonpareils - is correct. Hey don't be dissin' Sno Caps? Just cuz you can't handle the sickly sweet... Sheesh!!!

I ave never enjoyed Kamakiriad as I have this morning!!! I can hear so much. It's like listening for the first time but I know it. Sort of like learning to walk a 2nd and 3rd time. I mean Whoa!!! Like surviving a life-threatening... Oh never-mind.


Yay!!!!!

WL

Date: Sun, December 02, 2007, 13:29:32 ET
Posted by: Carl Rogers,

RE: Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 23:43:13 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w


Hey Carl,

aren't cloudy non-sequiturs cool? Especially the ones designed to sound clever. Nice try, kiddo!


I wasn't really trying to sound clever, Spinach Chin.

Speaking of non-sequiturs, I always liked them a lot better than non-perils when I was a kid. Not as sickeningly sweet. How's that for wit, Mr. Tittlely Twiggs?

PS. Now, how about responding to my posited reply in my last post re. DF's smudged signature:
"Wouldn't the smudged signature imply the freshness/"realness" of the ink?" Ziplock Snapps?

Date: Sun, December 02, 2007, 12:13:58 ET
Posted by: Web Searcher, everywhere

Review of Fagen and Bowie boxed sets.


http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/derogatis/676606,SHO-Sunday-dero02c.article

Date: Sun, December 02, 2007, 07:54:58 ET
Posted by: Zembo, Fredneck, MD

It was my understanding from the start that an appearance by DF was never promised at those meet and greets. They pretty much laid it on the line what you would see/do. Had I been able to afford it, I would have forked the $250 out just to be up close and personal with the band and hear the informal sound check. As you know, DF is not known for his social personality. I don't know whether I'd have paid more if I was guaranteed to meet DF, I think I would dissolve into a quivering pile of jello and the whole incident would be foggy later on. But that may be a female perspective - while the males would have the presence of mind to ask some insightful questions. I think another attraction (one HDF took advantage of) was the ease with which ticket purchasing flowed and the guarantee of an excellent seat. It's all what you can afford.

And then there was that cool scarf...

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 23:44:54 ET
Posted by: KLM,

Luckless Pedestrian-yo' moniker is apt on this one.

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 23:43:13 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

Hey Carl,

aren't cloudy non-sequiturs cool? Especially the ones designed to sound clever. Nice try, kiddo!

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 19:22:38 ET
Posted by: HouDanFan, Houston

ILAA,

I would not pay 400 to 500 just to meet Donald and Walter. I'd pay that much to hear them play live if that's what it took.

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 19:21:31 ET
Posted by: Smudge & Fudge, USA

Doing a little research on sports memorabilia shows that smudges are not used for authenticity but are in fact guaranteed to lower an item's appraisal value.

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 18:51:12 ET
Posted by: luckless pedistrian,

BOX SET IN
no signature, smudged or otherwise.

maybe DF's hands have tried from signing and counting his $$.

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 18:02:48 ET
Posted by: ILAA,

Hou Dan Fan

Would you have put out $400 to $500 if it guaranteed DF? That would be worth it. Sounds like you didn't care and knew ahead of time there would be no DF and paid $250. Just trying to see if I'm alone on this one. No more questions after this one! Appreciate the perspective.

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 17:48:39 ET
Posted by: HouDanFan, Houston

ILAA,

I mostly did the ILAA because I wanted a guaranteed seat up close and with everything else thrown in I thought it was a decent deal. Plus coming from out of town, paying the extra cash was worth not having to worry about where I was sitting since I knew nothing about the layout of the venue and despise dealing with TM. Sure it would have been nice if DF made an appearance, but he hadn't appeared at any of the previous shows. The cost of the entire package probably wasn't much more than what the scalpers were charging for close up seats with none of the ILAA benefits. I know some on here have ripped the whole concept, but I was more than satisfied.

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 16:52:28 ET
Posted by: Brutus Charisma,

Check out this Maynard Ferguson clip (circa 1974) w/ a very young Peter Erskine (one of several drummers on AIA) on drums -
forking amazink!

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 16:16:39 ET
Posted by: Carl Rogers,

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 12:11:52 ET
Posted by: ha-ha, w


RE: "Donald's signature was smudged. I was a bit disappointed when I opened it."

Did you ever think that maybe that was done intentionally to suggest authenticity?

---

No, because that would be fucking retarded.

Why would that be retarded, Flippy?

Wouldn't imply the freshness of the ink, Zippy?

How' you doin' Chunga Chest?

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 16:09:55 ET
Posted by: I Love ALL Access,

Hou Dan Fan- You did NOT expect DF to show up for $250? Or did you buy it after you knew he was not showing up? Sounds like it was a decent outing.
Most of these ILAAs you do meet the real stars. It is supposed to be ALL Access. I would go up to $400 to $500 if DF was included in the price. Would a higher price make any difference in your situation if DF was included? You sound like you didn't feel ripped at $250.

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 15:48:31 ET
Posted by: wormy, nola

my fagen box smuged

just D F ~

the ~ was smudged

gorgerous works

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 15:37:42 ET
Posted by: HouDanFan, Houston

Oh Cindy M came up too. She didn't say much though. But she isn't gorgerous. She's sexy and hot. If you know what I mean.

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 15:32:47 ET
Posted by: HouDanFan, Houston

I enjoyed ILAA very much. The DF band played a few songs at the sound check, Carolyn, Freddie and Jeff did a very engaging question/answer for about 15 to 20 minutes, we had a get together at a local bar/restaurant with food and got to meet some very nice people, and the seats were 3rd row center. I can't remember the cost but I dont think it was $300, more like $200 -$250?? I never thought DF would make an appearance at the question/answer when I bought the tickets in the first place. I'd do it again for sure. I don't mind paying extra to get what I got and not have to deal with Ticket Bastard. And Carolyn was gorgerous.

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 15:06:48 ET
Posted by: ILAA,

Hou Dan Fan if "ain't" made it into the Dictionary, 15-20 years from now Gorgerous might make it in there if enough people use it.

Tell us more about this ILAA. I heard it was a RIP and they discontinued it. Wasn't it something like $300 US or what? Don and Walt didn't even show up I heard.

Carolyn is OK, but did you get to meet that FINE Soul Sistah Cindy M? She is definitely more gorgerous.

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 13:36:57 ET
Posted by: HouDanFan, Houston

More like engulfed. Looks like I supposedly got caught by the spelling police. But my friend, gorgerous actually means more gorgeous than gorgeous. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 12:11:52 ET
Posted by: ha-ha, w

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 10:54:00 ET
Posted by: Carl Rogers,

RE: "Donald's signature was smudged. I was a bit disappointed when I opened it."

Did you ever think that maybe that was done intentionally to suggest authenticity?

---

No, because that would be fucking retarded.

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 11:20:57 ET
Posted by: Gorgerous? That's a new one!,

Had Carolyn just gotten through "gorging" at the ILAA buffet?? Or she made YOU "engorged"?

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 11:05:59 ET
Posted by: HouDanFan, Houston

During the ILAA meet and greet (DF tour) in Chicago several of the band members came up for a chat including Carolyn. I'm telling you this woman is even more gorgerous up close. When I heard she got married I was depressed for days...

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 10:54:00 ET
Posted by: Carl Rogers,

RE: "Donald's signature was smudged. I was a bit disappointed when I opened it."

Did you ever think that maybe that was done intentionally to suggest authenticity?

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 10:30:59 ET
Posted by: Hong Wong,

SS - He's ambidextrous.

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 10:18:38 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Is DF left-handed ?

Date: Sat, December 01, 2007, 09:43:42 ET
Posted by: Bob, Northeast Pa

My boxed set was packed the same way as Steelydoc's and Donald's signature was smudged. I was a bit disappointed when I opened it.

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 23:32:22 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu - Note to the the "Powers Tha Be", Your late with the rain. As Maxwell Smart would say, "Missed it by that much". Schmucks.

Hey Denise,
Glad to hear you are enjoying your
vinyl. I agree, a libation is required.
You see, you fix another cocktail when
you have to turn the LP over. See how
nicely that works. Now go and get that
new 180 gram copy of Aja. I will await
your report.

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 19:42:18 ET
Posted by: Chan, Libation in Hand

I had to chuckle at your libation comment Denise. Hope you enjoy it. Like my friend in Deacon Blues, I too have a scotch in front of me as I type.

I'll try to stay up for a chat later, but its cold here in New England and you know what that means. First day of skiing tomorrow!!! Early wake up call.

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 19:02:13 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower

I also got smudged signatures on the two DF boxed sets I ordered...in my packages, the signed boxes were placed face down on top of the sealed boxed sets, and the ink rubbed against the shrink wrap and the sticker on the outside of the shrink wrap. The little stickers on the boxed set are coverd with the smeared ink.

They were loosely packed with some brown paper cushioning inside, but nothing was done to protect the gisnatures. Disappointing...

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 18:52:15 ET
Posted by: Not My..., @work

My trilogy arrived with one wrapped compliation (broken cd cases inside, but discs are fine), and then my signed box set sans cd's and with a distinctive smudge of DF's name. I still love him, but the quality, not so much. I think he signed mine and someone (not DF, because he's far too smart to do this...) put another cd for him to sign directly on top, hence the smudging.

Anyone else's packaging smudged or damaged? Just curious.

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 18:07:28 ET
Posted by: a comment, here

Mike: the key phrase in the article is "self-reported excellent mental health"

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 18:01:14 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, Resident Neocon

Okay, So I couldn't resist. This only directed at a select few and you know who you are. (BigAdios et al)


http://www.gallup.com/poll/102943/Republicans-Report-Much-Better-Mental-Health-Than-Others.aspx

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 17:28:32 ET
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Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 16:58:08 ET
Posted by: Denise, Hinktown

Hey, L. Ray,

Am listening to Aja on my turntable. All of you are right, it does have a different, warmer tone. (I know I'm late to the game on this one: bear with me, please.) It's funny, it's been so long since I've played an LP that I forgot how annoying it is to have to flip the damn thing after 3 songs. But Black Cow-Aja-Deacon Blue just flowed though the house like honey. After the horrendous work day I have had, it will be a pleasure to sit tonight and listen to all these albums. Perhaps have a "libation" as Chan would say, and relax.

Next up: I think one of my Dad's oldies. Jazz Goes to College looks interesting. It's an Brubeck album recorded at 3 colleges in 1954. Well, maybe afer I give Aja 1 more spin...

BTW, thanks for the tip Wormy and Dan Belcher: I have been listening to Maiden Voyage and enjoying it.

Have a good weekend everyone.

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 16:12:01 ET
Posted by: Fife, Baltimore, eh

Anyone up for a chat this evening say around 9.30-10pm est? It's been awhile.
Fife

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 14:10:51 ET
Posted by: Web Searcher, usa

Does everybody have an IGY stamp?

http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/res/pi/polar_workshop/images/igyStamp.jpg

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 14:07:46 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, CT

Hey, Bobbo, have you checked out Carolyn's new album with Wayne Escoffery "If Dreams Come True?" It's excellent. I am really enjoying all of her solo efforts, both on her own and with Lyn Leon and the Juju orchestra. I don't know why she doesn't get more publicity, she's a hidden gem of talent.

G,

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 13:59:48 ET
Posted by: Web Searcher, no punctuation

Here's something about the IGY, with a few references to the song.

http://www.bhamweekly.com/index.php?article_id=549

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 13:23:21 ET
Posted by: mr belzoni, funway west

is it me or is no reviewing the box set or has it been delayed. I know it'll be under my tree christmas morn but where are the critiques? Mr B

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 13:09:18 ET
Posted by: ha-ha, w

Bobbo - gross, dude.

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 12:57:38 ET
Posted by: Bobbo, not seeming to happen OR "become"

Fellas (and Girlies),

Best and possibly only "Third World Man" I've heard live was in Denver, on Don's MORPH tour. Quite exquisitely done, the band had "figured it out" by then, perhaps...

I'll never forget: I was eye-to-eye with Carolyn during most of the latter points in the show (I'd "stooped up" to the top of my cushioned seat to try and stare at Donald during the entire early portion of the show--I think it was Geoff who gave me his front-row seat to take a more unadulterated view of the rythm section quickly after the opening three numbers). At points during "Brite Nightgown" and "Third World Man", she seemed to sing right at me! It was the encore of "T.G.Y." that I knew for sure--she remembered me from the pre-show meet/greet...yes. She was beckoning me to a secret stage exit, to join the group for an afterglow and parting orgy of sorts. Alas, I never found it...and I'm certain she's forgotten any "tingles" we felt on that cold March day, up there in the mountains.

I WAS THE ONE IN THE TWEED COAT, WITH THE HAT, CAROLYN....WITH THE GOOD LIPS, AND THE BIG OL' BILLFOLD, REMEMBER?! Pleas and Pledges, constructed so crudely, all in vain, and for-sure, Spanky.

Wish y'all wouldn't talk about "live" renditions of "Third World Man"; makes me weird, wouldn't you know? Golly, Wally.

And Pete, you should move out to Texas, and turn that clock backwards with the rest (and best) of us, old chum, Good Soul. Hope it is a good one for you, young man...this one's for you, brother. Selah.


Okay,
Bobbo

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 12:57:38 ET
Posted by: Stanford Moeller,

With the bead of the drumstick 2 to 3 inches above the drumhead the instrument is struck briskly and the stick is allowed to rebound to approximately 12 inches above the drumhead creating a short, sharp, staccato sound.

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 10:22:53 ET
Posted by: jack, la

sorry the review is at rolling stone just type in steely dan aja.

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 10:22:17 ET
Posted by: Jack, LA

I read a review of aja and the reviewer mentioned the drummers "upstroke" on the beginning of black cow.

WHat does upstroke mean?

Date: Fri, November 30, 2007, 09:53:54 ET
Posted by: Iren, london

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End ^) See you

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 23:25:25 ET
Posted by: oleander, fogelriffic

Pete--Happy, happy birthday.

The Trilogy is beyond worth it. The bonus cd just gives me the warm fizzies all over.

TWM is my absolute fave guitar solo and a great song to boot.

Nice Reuters article--summer 08 or bust!

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 20:00:43 ET
Posted by: magic answering 8-ball, coffee table

the magic ball, if nothing else, is cautious....

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 19:10:59 ET
Posted by: Milo, Meyer Sound

Posted by: Deacon Booze, Dark Side Of The Moon
Hi, can anyone enlighten me to what SD CD, album, cassette, 8 track tape or otherwise has Godwhacker on it? Preferably a live version?

Posted by: magic answering 8-ball,
That would be on SD's BEST post 2000 studio CD, 4th cut. No known live version...

NO KNOWN LIVE VERSION? Well let's just say that there are no "official" Soundboard versions out there!!!!!!!
Good luck Mr Booze, we can't go into more detail here ;O)

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 18:41:33 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons Island

Rajah - ask yourself: what would Bill Clinton do?

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 18:09:08 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Well, Gretchen is a little long in the tooth at 44 as we say but she has a long slinky little torso I'm awfully fond of cozying up to. I also do however have a 23 year old girlfriend but I'm not allowed to have sex with her...darn...remind me now, what exactly is involved with having sex????

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 17:51:06 ET
Posted by: Che?, Catania

Che una vecchia! Didn't think that was the way the Rajah rolls.

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 17:39:37 ET
Posted by: magic answering 8-ball, toy box

if you figured out which CD it is, you indoubtably will.

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 17:38:07 ET
Posted by: Rajahp,

My adorable Gretchen is actually 54 years old according to the AARP card I took out on her last year. So I added 10 years to her birthdate for the card...was that so...wrong?

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 17:28:26 ET
Posted by: Deacon Booze, Dark Side Of The Moon

Thanks very much magic answering 8-ball.

Will I get lucky tonight?

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 17:16:01 ET
Posted by: magic answering 8-ball,

That would be on SD's BEST post 2000 studio CD, 4th cut. No known live version...

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 17:11:27 ET
Posted by: Deacon Booze, Dark Side Of The Moon

Hi, can anyone enlighten me to what SD CD, album, cassette, 8 track tape or otherwise has Godwhacker on it? Preferably a live version?

Thanks!

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 17:11:11 ET
Posted by: so..this Gretchen must be up there at about 50?,

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 16:47:16 ET
Posted by: bells, Bellevue State Hosp

Pixeleen has some kind of bells, or something at the end.

Or is it a tamborine you are thinking of?

Steely Dan also uses a broken glass effect (like Rikki and Cruiser) in lots of places that could be generated by little sleigh-type bells, like you might find on dog collars. If you shake bells of that type quickly enough you can get that Bewitched or pixie dust sound effect.

Or maybe it is a synth.

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 16:28:49 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, hats and hooters

Happy Birthday Pete.....it's also my dad's birthday (the big 7-0). Only good people were born on this day. Enjoy!

G

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 16:23:04 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Happy Birthday, Pete, Jesus, you're old, but darling, you look maaahvelous....

Christ Hoopsie, as if I haven't broken every Blue Rule yet, now I get the rap on the knuckles for my ////!!!!

Stop torturing me, you prick!!!!!!!

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 15:35:35 ET
Posted by: Greater Dandom,

Happy Birthday to Pete Fogel!

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 15:10:58 ET
Posted by: ha-ha, w

"Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 08:12:11 ET
Posted by: AnonTwit, Chicago

"Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 21:55:00 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

Have you never heard that phrase in your life, or do you just lead a joyless existence?"

I've heard lots, thank you. Have you stopped beating your wife?"

Domestic abuse cracks, classy. My partner is bruise-free, thank you.

How is an ancient, innocuous crack at a mug's expense (not a woman's) some sort of batch of insight into some sort of misogynist line of thinking?

I'll tell you where the insight lies: had anyone else made the crack, you would have let it slide. But because HeyMike is this board's resident neocon, you saw a chance to pounce, and did.

Protest all you want, but I'm on to you. You can put your clothes on, now.

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 15:10:38 ET
Posted by: Newt, Fresno

Is it my imagination, or do SD reserve their studio sleigh bells for songs with obvious drug references? Two that come to mind are Charley Freak and Jack of Speed. Used only at the end of the song. Anybody heard sliegh bells in any other SD songs?

Newt

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 14:04:00 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Yo! Raj, "I Was There", et al

Just for technical reasons so as to protect your post from being deleted as a result of a system error, please do not use a bunch of slashes, parens, etc in the email field when making a post. This is strictly a technical precaution. Thank you.

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 14:04:00 ET
Posted by: Craig B.,

Thanks V & There

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 14:03:39 ET
Posted by: Rajah, H.U.G.E.

Well, thanks, LA Consesssion, and I have only one correction to your post: although a huge pompous pain in the ass, I have NEVER, NEVER said I knew the boys at all. I am a keen observer and a fan, that's all, dude, that's all.

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 14:00:46 ET
Posted by: IWasThere, For Third World Man

Third World Man was played in Atlantic City on the Sugartooth tour. They nixed I got the News.

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 13:40:24 ET
Posted by: victor, Seattle

Craig,

Steely Dan didn't play TWM on that tour. Fagen did it earlier that year with his own band. Herington and Krantz both played the solo at the same time and it was brilliant!

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 13:32:24 ET
Posted by: Craig B.,

Rajah or anybody
Did SD do T W M at the Soboba
Thanks

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 13:23:42 ET
Posted by: LA Concession, d

Rajah- Don't underestimate yourself. You're a HUGE pompous pain in the ass.

If you "knew the boys" as well as you think you do, you would know that they have (and always will) sacrifice the literal meaning of the lyric for the sound of the song.

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 13:19:08 ET
Posted by: prez logic, bcs # 2

At the Donald Fagen show in Las Vegas in March of 2006 I was fortunate enough to interview some of the band thanks to an "I Love All Access" pass. I asked Jon Herington his favorite solo to play from a Steely Dan song and much to my surprise he answered "Third World Man".

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 12:44:49 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

tonybass - thanks, man, but if you listen to a lot of folks around Blue, I'm just a pompous pain in the ass.

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 12:39:50 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

Rajah- Wow!...your post, both informative and deep... cool

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 12:02:08 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

You refer to "e l'era del terzo mondo," literally translated, "it is the era of the third world." Puzzling that, why the Italian and not Spanish, something like, "es la era del tercer mundo?" Plenty of third world countries, or as we call them now, "d eveloping nations," speak Spanish. Italy sure ain't totally modernized, close, but not totally, which is unfortunate IMHO, cause I liked it better when the only phone in my town in Abruzzo was at the coffee bar in the main piazza and every now and then some kid would come running up the hill and yell out, "Uncle Leo, come quick, it's America calling!"

But the buring question remains, what is a, "Ghana rondo?" Ghana certainly could've qualified as a thrid world country but how does this connect with, "rondo," which we know as the old Italian, "ritornello," a Baroque musical form which is basically a little tune with a refrain, a return to a central theme, now a staple of every popular song for the past, I dunno, hundreds of years. Our narrator sings out this particular rondo while the TWM kid cries out. It is a puzzlement as Yul Brenner would say. But wowie, didn't that song presage the present state of world affairs...

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 10:56:16 ET
Posted by: 3WM, bunker

I didn't like TWM at first. Thought it was kind of filler-ish. But decided to give it another listen after most reviews of Gaucho considered it more than a throwaway track. I can't remember if it was High Fidelity or Down Beat that raved of Carlton's guitar solo (recorded for WYBTD I believe.) And Rolling Stone, declaring that it was the replacement for the erased track, called it "perhaps Gaucho's most striking piece of music." Another review, which considered it Gaucho's simplest song, liked the way it "cheerfully skipped a line of the first verse." And Robert Palmer, when putting Gaucho #1 on his top 10 list of 1980, made mention of the "8 year old suburban terrorist armed to the teeth" as one of the album's standout characters.

I agree with Gretchen that for a long time it had the distinction of being the last track on the last album. I always pondered if there was any significance to having the final lyric they offered being Italian.

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 10:10:20 ET
Posted by: Zembo, mobilized since dawn

I used to hate Third World Man, too, but it was the Joni Release that hooked me. I am especially partial to the Steve Kahn electric playing that occurs at the end. I like the sound of that guitar, it's unique and soumewhat "tinny" to me, but not in a bad way. (sorry for the non-technical terminology - scientists don't know about that stuff...)

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 08:12:11 ET
Posted by: AnonTwit, Chicago

"Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 21:55:00 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

Have you never heard that phrase in your life, or do you just lead a joyless existence?"

I've heard lots, thank you. Have you stopped beating your wife?

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 07:10:34 ET
Posted by: donatus c. k, oweeri imo state

want to know more about the dandom

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 07:09:14 ET
Posted by: donatus c. k, oweeri imo state

want to know more about the dandom

Date: Thurs, November 29, 2007, 04:20:57 ET
Posted by: Steve In, Singapura, Koptiam

re- Third World Man

...great to see everyones view of this often overlooked track.....according to Brian Sweet this song was a re-working of a song originally titled 'Were You Blind that Day'- a sonf Fagen mentions as being completed in an interview in 1977 (New Times magazine)..not quite sure how it got re-titled...but one of the 'Dan's more interesting songs

re- Do It Again

is there an imperfection on this diamond???? I remember Dias saying in an interview that CBAT was the worst album Steely Dan ever recorded?!...but we all know they were there own worst critics.....considering how quickly they had to record their debut- the 'dan's 1972 effort ir remarkable- clear sound....nice rythmn to the whole thing..and essentially easy to play live.....which helped them win over a lot of critics when they toured in '72 and '73 (despite David Palmer's presence)

re- Night By Night

definite- detective show theme-coool Peter Gunn like detective series...I always thought that the horn arrangement tacked on to the end of Sign In Stranger.....was classic tv show materiale....tonite on ABC........Don Fagen interviews Vic Feldman..

re- Becker bashing

I re-frained from commenting on all that nasty Becker bashing a while back and still think it is ridiculous to question the man's contribution to Steely Dan.....Fagen AND Becker created the Steely Dan entity together and it would be pretty difficult to disect where and if there were distinct elements that were soley Fagen-esque or Becker-esque.....while Fagen has shown himself to be a more prolific solo artist Becker has contributed his unique chapter in the annals of pop and rock music....while Fagen struggled with writer's block in the 1980's and issued only 1 new track after 1982's The Nightfly (Century's End) Becker collaborated on and produced some fine albums from China Crisis, Rickie Lee Jones and founded a very cool world music label in Triloka Records.....that 1985 China Crisis album is till one of my favourites----it has some sort of quasi-Asiatic feel to it

just a few thoughts over coffee and muffin.........and free wireless broadband internet....wow like crazy man....

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 23:55:59 ET
Posted by: HouDanFan, Houston

Third World Man is a great song. I like the slower live version on AIA. When I heard it there I was totally hooked.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 22:38:46 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Tonybass...will check those out. Thanks

ThirdWorldHasitall...that's a great potential segue to SD music as movie music, or background music. Agree TWM would complement pix of vistas. Perhaps a zoom-out shot.

And SD music could show up in a lot of different places that way.

I can see the beginning of I Got The News used with some quick edits for very urban stuff.

Night by Night screams out something visually...can't put my finger on it though. Detective show ?

Any Major Dude - coming of age/troubled youth film.

Anyway, tons of potential uses.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 22:28:20 ET
Posted by: Third World has it ALL!,

Third World is a great wind-down coda for Gaucho and is a good song for kicking back. It kind of hypnotically lulls you with the tranquil background. But the best part of Third World is at the end of each chorus when the horns rise up out of nowhere, then descend with the kick-ass guitar riff and drum cascade. It defines awesome, it is huge and immense, kind of like being in awe of a majestic place like El Capitan in Yosemite National Parl, it would be a perfect accompaniment to a camera panning from ground level upward to the summit. You can feel a rush through your veins.

Anybody else get anything like that?

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 21:59:45 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

SS- Check out Third World Man right at 4:19 during the outtro...missed bass note (which is ok considering that everything else Chuck did was flawless)

On Do it Again my memory didn't serve me too well...Walter's flub (on bass) was on the second chorus right at the "Back Jack" vocal...2:27 on my mp3 not during the solo section

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 21:55:00 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

"Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 15:59:33 ET
Posted by: AnonTwit, Chicago

No, Mike, we don't"

Have you never heard that phrase in your life, or do you just lead a joyless existence?

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 20:53:08 ET
Posted by: Girl Margaret, Cortlandt Manor, NY

I always thought TWM was dreadful for the longest time. It was so dark and dreary, eerie and depressing, so slow and morbid. I never understood why Joni Mitchell put it on that Starbucks cd she released of her favorite songs. Everytime it came on I'd be looking for the sharpest object to drag across my wrists. Actually I pretty much felt that way about Gaucho for a long time, too. I remember the first stop on the Fagen tour and hearing the opening of TWM and groaning to myself, but they way that band performed it set something off in me and I finally gave it a shot. Ever since I heard Krantz and Herington take that solo, man, that song grew on me! And then the Gaucho album grew on me too, now I absolutely love it. I suppose it's an acquired taste, at least it was for me.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 20:34:09 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower

hey tonybass:

go to: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/ and do a search for Steely Dan...lots of reading there! They had a thread on there about "engineering mistakes that made it onto albums," and there were a couple of SD things on there...but the thread seems to have disappeared.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 20:18:49 ET
Posted by: kuleebaba, Sound on Sound article

I remember this article...

"The story of Everything Must Go leaves us with one loose end: the Ktistec machine. Is it retro or the future? Not surprisingly, a bit of both. It turns out to come from a book by American science fiction writer RA Lafferty (1914-2002), where it is featured as the world's first transcendental (and pipe-smoking) computer, which can change the past retrospectively"

I read that article and thought, how cool! An sf novel with a transcendental pipe-smoking AI, recommended by the gods of rock!

Bought it, read it... I thought it was almost gibberish. Who knows... Your Mileage May Vary!

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 19:59:14 ET
Posted by: CanadianDan,

Third World Man, also a killer version on the live CD .Steve Gadd makes the song brilliant as well.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 19:54:35 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

sorry, that's THROW in a time reference.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 19:45:00 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

TonyBass, interesting observation. Can you through in a time reference,like 6:16 or whatever, on that missed bass note so I can listen when I have time to see what that sounds like ?

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 19:36:43 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

Third World Man has a depressing quality about it that adds to the track...the haunting chords and slow dirge-like tempo are whats cool to me about that song. But what I feel is the most amazing thing about Third World Man is the missed root bass note, an obvious mistake, in the "outtro" section by the incomparable Chuck Rainey. Being that Don and Walt NEVER leave mistakes on the tracks it still blows me away when I hear it. On the song Do it Again, during the solo section, Walt does the same thing. Can anybody think of any other obvious mistakes, musically, on any other Dan/Don/Walt tracks?

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 19:02:15 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, Old Saybrook

Third World Man? It's a great song.......unfortunately it appeared as the last track on the "last" album, as we thought for years, so it's got a bad association. Prior to 2vN, I always thought it was depressing.

Donald was the hight point of the Stauss Benefit concert on Monday evening. He clearly loves performing. He's all class, and very hot, too.

G

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 18:45:52 ET
Posted by: Dan Belcher, Louisville, KY

I've seen a lot of people noting Third World Man as one of their least-favorite Steely Dan songs, and it confuses the ever living hell out of me. What a GREAT song, one of my favorites. Joe friggin' Sample tearing it up on the Rhodes, plus a killer Larry Carlton solo. Good stuff. The live version from the Fagen solo tour was phenomenal too.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 17:10:15 ET
Posted by: Amy Vanderbilt, just an idea, kids

Hey, this isn't Page Six, so gossip and insults within our extended family should not be welcome on these pages. Let's all exhibit the class I know we all have and not sling mud.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 16:53:07 ET
Posted by: warrenk,

yea, i never understood how people think Third World Man is one of the worse songs on Gaucho. It's incredible.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 16:02:19 ET
Posted by: Nwk, Nwk

Fagenism anon: You mentioned Third World Man, a song extensively talked about here on the blue, aka Were You Blind that Day.

Man, (and sorry Alk et al who aren't fond of the tune), that song is an underrated masterpiece of art. Give it a chance. I still am trying to wrap my head around that splendid marriage of lyrics and melodies. The Donald Fagen Band helped explode that song into my psyche for weeks after the show(s).

The song embodies compassion, rise and fall of hope, extending way beyond the obvious, holding with care the beating heart of someone, a soldier or a warped kid perhaps, if you go with this metaphor, who simply exists now alive only after being spiritually decimated. Oh well, back to the regularly schedule program. The album without that tune would be a shame.

I love both TvN, but admit to listening to EMG twice as much because I love playing the album on my laptop from the link on SD website. That taxi confessions show has been on TV a lot lately--a scream.

nwk, in the kitchen, in the pines, cooking greens for the boss, who just walked in, run!

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 15:59:33 ET
Posted by: AnonTwit, Chicago

No, Mike, we don't.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 15:54:09 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

Je-sus.

Mike, we have your back on this one.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 14:27:18 ET
Posted by: Craig B,

LWO in my experience equals perfection and grace

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 13:56:49 ET
Posted by: Anon Police,

HeyMike- Instead of "marrying up" you really should shut the F&*k up!

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 13:34:08 ET
Posted by: Huh?, over a handbag?

Lynda: "you didn't make any friends with your carry on"

ouch - all this angst from down under over a leather handbag? was it Gucci? jealous people.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 11:57:03 ET
Posted by: Manners Police,

Ah, the irony of somebody pointing out to someone (what they perceive to be) their improper etiquette. Publicly no less.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 11:51:31 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, Chicago

BigA-You are as stupid as stupid gets. Back away from the bong and apply just a bit of critical thinking.

For instance-you marry Rosie ODonnell, that's marrying up.
I marry Jessica Alba-that's marrying up--GET IT?

I know what hoops would say--leave the morons alone and move on- so i shall. If you need further explanation - my e-mail address is on every post.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 11:47:14 ET
Posted by: AnonTwit, Chicago

Lynda: The only thing you should be posting is an apology.

Any day now. Sharpen up!

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 11:44:44 ET
Posted by: Member, LWO fan club

You'd think, being an SD fan, that people would have a highly developed sense of humor. I guess not.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 11:27:36 ET
Posted by: Ah, the joke is,

HeyMike's light joke, the one that apparently a bunch of people are missing, is that Alan, by marrying Jeri, is marrying up, as in up beyond his social place. It is meant to be a compliment to Jeri. The other way of putting it would be 'hey Alan, you did really well to find a woman like Jeri. She is too good for you, you old so and so.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 11:19:55 ET
Posted by: H, Oldie but goodie...

...pretty long as well.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug03/articles/steelydan.htm

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 11:17:42 ET
Posted by: BigAdios, New York City

Rajah - I didn't notice Herington taking the stage either. But it was his playing (not his hair) that was the dead give away that it was him. And boy, did he sound great!

HeyMike- How in the hell is "BTW nice job Alan doing what all men strive to do -- marry-up"! "an off handed compliment" to Alan's wife? Please just keep your foot in your mouth next time!

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 11:11:29 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Big A - I did mention in passing that it was Jon in a tux back there. I didn't actually notice Jon coming onstage with Donald, he musta snuck in there somehow and sat down with the other guitarists upsatge. So during the Ruby guitar riffs I'm saying to myself, hey that guy must have boned up on the Steely Dan guitar sound or maybe he's a fan or possibly Donald worked with him on how he wanted the guitar to sound. Very impressed, it was just little one note touches here and there replicating the vibe line we hear on the recording but ya know, so Steely Dan it raised an eyebrow. Then, the song ends, Donald starts off right and this slender guy saunters off from up right and exits behind the Fagenator. Hunh, who is that? Then the spousal unit says, "that's Jon, I can tell by his hair." Leave it to a woman to recognize a guy by his hair.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 10:57:49 ET
Posted by: AnonTwit, Chicago

You too, Mike!
Remember, we're watching you and know where you live!
Don't forget to marry up!

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 10:53:59 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, Chicago

Also, you anon mindless twits that have nothing better to do than scrutinize a congratulatory message to newlyweds need to really, truly get a bloody life.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 10:45:02 ET
Posted by: Wow, asdf

Wow, let one single woman in a crowd of insecure marrieds and the claws come out!

Way to spill the cake, Linda!

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 10:33:21 ET
Posted by: The Police, again

Lynda: we are still waiting for your apology for your lack of decorum and grace......

:waiting:

:waiting:

hurry now, hon!

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 10:25:25 ET
Posted by: apologize,

HeyMike- That' true. But you do!

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 10:20:57 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, Chicago

Well said Police and LWO doesn't have to apologize to any of us - ever.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 10:19:14 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, Chicago

Jesus H. Christ-that was on off-hand compliment to his beautiful bride. Not some general statement about how us middle-aged men (I'm single) have chosen to live our lives. Lighten the Fuck Up already.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 10:17:15 ET
Posted by: The Police, In your face

Lynda: While we can't speak to your better half, I would guess that whatever went on at Alan&Jeri's most beautiful occasion would remain in the memories of those attending, especially Alan&Jeri; that said, any insult, barb or alleged correction to those on this board who attended is viewed as highly improper and declasse. On the top side of the planet, we call that, "grace". Why don't you mail order and get some today.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 10:03:08 ET
Posted by: BigAdios, New York City

Rajah- I was at the show at Carnagie Hall the other night. I'm surprised you didn't comment on how great Jon Herington sounded. I actually enjoyed his playing more the I enjoyed DF's vocal performance.

HeyMike - I'm a heterosexual man in his late thirty's. I have never had the desire to "marry up". I've also never had the desire to have children. Maybe next time you should write "most men". Believe me my friend, there's nothing like having multiple sex partners without the guilt of cheating on your spouse. But I guess you and every other man wouldn't know the feeling.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 09:47:05 ET
Posted by: CanadianDan,

Thanks Rajah,
I thought he was doing a full set.It sounds like it was a great show .

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 09:40:46 ET
Posted by: Single, and LOVING it!

"BTW nice job Alan doing what all men strive to do -- marry-up"!


Hey Mike- SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 09:09:44 ET
Posted by: Hutch, rva

A friend of mine went to a Clint Black show not long ago. Turns out Black is a big SD fan and, in fact, performed Josie during his encore.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 08:39:57 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, Chicago, IL

What a minute, LWO flies half way across the planet to go to a blue bookers wedding and then gets ripped on here by some oversensitive guest? Go away whomever you are.

BTW nice job Alan doing what all men strive to do -- marry-up!
Congrats.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 08:31:40 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Dan, it wasn't a Donald Fagen show, it was a benefit concert for the Strauss Leukemia Foundation who were giving a tribute to the great old rock n roll songwriters, Lieber & Stoller, most notable for penning 20 Elvis tunes and a great number of Coasters and Drifters hits. Donald performed just one song, Ruby Baby, a Lieber & Stoller classic. He performed it backed by the New York Pops Orchestra sans strings which was a shame since I think he could've given the 16 violinists a nice 16-bar break in the middle there.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 08:22:16 ET
Posted by: testa,

http://volny.cz/volume

[URL=http://volny.cz/volume]teens sex [/URL]


<a href=http://volny.cz/volume/map.html> teens video </a>

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 08:19:54 ET
Posted by: EMG wins, USA

Clint Black places his vote for EMG. We can put this topic to rest.

http://www.buffalonews.com/entertainment/music/story/215054.html

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 07:52:48 ET
Posted by: CanadianDan,

any chance of gettng a set list from the DF show the other night???

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 07:51:12 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One,

Let me clarify, Lynda. The toast that I was referring to was at the pub before the reception. You are, of course, right about everything else and I certainly apologize for all my shortcomings.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 06:48:49 ET
Posted by: Lynda and Scotty, Sydney, Australia

Hey LWO, just saw your post.....

Umm, were you at the same wedding as us? Cos you were not sitting at a table with "mostly single girls"

How do I know this? It's because my beautiful sister-in-law (Kellie) and the famous Steely Pam were at your table, which like most others was a table for 8. 4 females and 4 males in the majority of cases. Neither Pam or Kellie are single. So what you are really saying is that, at YOUR table, potentially 2 women made that comment? Was one of them you?

Sorry mate, but you really didn't make any friends with your carry on at the wedding, and you are in no position to make any comment - good or bad - as to what happened that day.

The only thing you should be posting is an apology.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 05:47:45 ET
Posted by: Lynda & Scotty, Sydney, Australia

Well, we just spent a couple of awesome days in the deep south (LOL) with Jeri, Alan, and the American contingent to celebrate the nuptials of Al and Jeri, and what a fabulous event it was !

The location of the wedding was absolutely beautiful - green and lush, a truly beautiful location.

Jeri looked stunning, as did Alan, and the entire ceremony was beautifully done. The celebrant was fantastic and really involved the guests in the wedding, as did the photographer (altho I'm not sure you;re gonna see any of us shorties in that group shot, folks!!).

After a very moving service, with tears all round, it was off to the reception, via slight detour to the pub to while away the "photo" time. The venue was fabulous, right on the beach, beautifully decorated, and welcoming. The food, the wine, the champagne and everything else you might have wished for, was really awesome. Thanks must go to Holly for her input to the menu - one of the nicest meals I've had at a wedding, just love that tapas style - lots of yummy tastes to try.

The music was, of course, primarily Steely, and warmly received by the crowd.

Never ones to leave any loose threads, the hosts ensured that all guests had transport to the wedding, the reception and home again afterwards - a very considerate gesture, especially for the American guests.

Lots of good times, a multitude of great memories, some wonderful new friends made and some old friends were reconnected.

All in all, a top day, culminating in the joining for life of two great people who, I am proud to say, are also great friends.

Cheers Al and Jeri, congratulations and wishing you a long and happy life together.

Love Lynda and Scott (and Steely Pam, Kellie and Chris)
xx

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 04:52:38 ET
Posted by: Ha-ha, w

Stop it, people. There is no "better" when dealing with works of art.

With a gun to my head and a desert island my destination, I'd probably choose EMG. That doesn't mean TvN doesn't give me more goosebumps than just about any Dan album. It does.

Enjoy them both on their relative merits. When stuck, think about this:

TvN = Katy Lied
EMG = Royal Scam

Cannot fucking wait for Don and Walt to put out their latter-day Aja.

I'm confident they have it in them.

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 03:16:42 ET
Posted by: Stefan Olofsson, Chania

Hi y'all!

Hope everyone is good! I've recently posted a new video of our Steely Dan tribute - 2nd Arrangement. It contains, among other things, the song "The Second Arrangement".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC2GjoqRhAQ

Enjoy!

/ Stefan

Date: Wed, November 28, 2007, 02:36:16 ET
Posted by: I Drove the Chrysler, PA

It has been said, by some major dude or other, that the artist himself is not necessarily the best judge of his art. Franz Schubert, for example, thought his large-scale compositions, not his songs, were his best work. No later music lovers agreed with ol' Schube's self-assessment. So when a contemporary popular artist claims his "Album Y" is a better record than his "Album X," the statement shouldn't be fretted over. It will always be the hard-core fans, the lovers of the artist's ouevre, who are the ultimate judges.

That having been said, EMG really is the STRONGER of the two millennial albums in this way: it's punchier, it kicks ass, it sounds better. But that doesn't mean the songwriting, on the whole, is nearly as good as on 2vN.

Except for the ditty "Cousin Dupree" and about half of "Almost Gothic," the songs on 2vN are on a par with those on AJA, GAUCHO, and NITEFLY. I can't say that about EMG, my love for that album notwithstanding.

But I come damn close to saying that about MTC.

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 21:50:40 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

How about two mics - one hanging from above ?

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 21:45:50 ET
Posted by: Wayne, BC

Thanks SS. My idea, I don't think it's a problem with the system itself , aside from additional sonic problems on any night in some poor sounding place. I'll bet my kid's Wii that Df's vocal mic is omnidirectional, meaning it will pick up sound equally from all three directions within some spherical range, not just from straight on. And the mic angle seems set properly, assuming a singer doesn't move out of range. But he is just throwing his head back farther and more often than he used to. It's almost like a tic at this point, he does a lot more almost violent head throwing when just playing too. Anyway, I don't know of any system fix for a singer who takes himself out of amplification.

During that last 2 shows I saw, I did start wondering if setting his mic simply higher might cut down on the number of times he goes out of range, because he is already throwing his head back as FAR as physically possible, nose pointing straight up to the roof. Of course he could start leaning his body back away from the mic too, if he really does intend to go off mic!. I'm honestly at a loss to guess why this growing problem has been allowed to get this far.

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 19:57:23 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Wayne, you're right on the DF head motion being up and down when he's singing and not side to side. The head drop to the side is something different. I didn't imagine anyone else watched it this closely.

There were times on the tour in Oz when it was very obvious he WAS singing but we were only hearing part of it. To take this further, I think it shows up more in certain songs. And it's interesting hearing the same song on different nights and getting the vocal in a different way. Was it his proximity to the mic ? Made me wonder about the sound system.

And some songs seem a lot tougher these days for DF than others. Green Flower Street comes to mind.

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 16:34:27 ET
Posted by: Web Searcher, USA

Never would have expected a NASCAR story to start by referencing the lyrics of Glamour Profession.

http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/headlines/cup/11/24/cot.jroush.gbiffle/index.html

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 15:36:15 ET
Posted by: Shark DeVille, haha

Don's letter to the NY Times:

“In his review of Hendrik Hertzberg’s ‘Politics,’ Richard Brookhiser reveals what seems to be multiple personality disorder. Brookhiser the writer can’t help praising Hertzberg’s skill (Hertzberg is ‘amusing, insightful’; he delights the reader), but then Brookhiser the right-wing hit man pops up with the condemnations (‘bland’ and ‘boring to read’). Brookhiser’s giddy oscillations make him sound like the Nutty Professor and deny your readers a serious review of Hertzberg’s book.”

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 15:21:05 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, Sydney to LAX was a breeze

At least four....unless I missed crashing a wedding somewhere down the line. Congratulations to the next Happy Couple!

A funny tidbit from the downunder wedding. The first toast that my table, comprised of mostly single girls, made was, "Here's to NOT catching the bouquet."

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 14:11:20 ET
Posted by: Fife, Baltimore, eh

Congratulations to Jazzman and Zembo who got engaged this past weekend in the Blue Ridge Mountains. How many marriages from the blue will that make?
Fife

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 14:00:43 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

Ann:

Bless you for that.

I was trying to hide my light under a bushel. LOL

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 13:36:53 ET
Posted by: Wayne, BC

SS - unlike previous poster I agree completely about DF's "mic work", but not so much the side-to-side Ray Charles thing, Instead he has an up-down problem, throwing his head way BACK (up) and suddenly going completely off-mic. Most singers especially with stagecraft experience can see this. I think in recent years it has gotten "worse", sometimes to the effect of compromising the vocals in a loud hall or one where bad acoustics already make it tough to follow vocal or other lines.

In DF two things seem to contribute in my opinion. One, some singers use distance from mic to try to modulate volume at end of notes, held notes or tricky notes (in terms of pitch). A singer with a cold or tight voice will "back off" the mic at the end of a note, especially a hard one, because the instinct is to fade the note rather than have to try to end it cleanly. This is an almost irresistible instinct of many singers in temporary trouble (you also see singers as they generally get older do more of this---fade off mic on notes they used to hold and end). Most singers will "fade" back from the mic gradually. For some reason DF throws his head and the effect is not gradual.

Second, and in my opinion perhaps more the case with DF, it seems to me the way DF sings requires great physical effort especially at his age, and on long or hard notes he seems to just NEED to throw his hed back to get out the note. He doesn't seem to be aware this physical action is cutting off his vocals completely at several moments during a vocal line.

There's another weird nthig I've notices that may or may not feed into this issue (observed from at least live show at each of lastseveral tours, plus dozens of YouTubes and any other filmed performance). Fagen has an intense sense of rhythm, especially upbeats. You will often see him snap his head back EVEN WHEN HE IS JUST PLAYING (not singing), almost alwyas on the "and" part of a beat. See the instrumental parts of the Classic Albums DVD for a good example. My guess is that's the way he feels the rhythm, and maybe it also comes into play when singing.

To summarize, I think SS;s observation is a good one. DF's mic habits, and how they're changing over the years, is my opinion a real and interesting observation, no less valid than observing how Becker's playing or guitar technique may be changing. SS is not the first to notice it, and if there are any other stage singers on board here I am guessing they would notice the same. Anyone?

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 13:28:04 ET
Posted by: ps,

yes Anne, thanks for the links to the Dan Collective clips. they are great, love Chris Watts voice.
am warming up to the Dan 'material' again.

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 13:18:53 ET
Posted by: Gina, Sun Mountain

howdy, Df sightings and such, nice :-)

just a quick visit to ask those who contributed to any of the 4 Banyan Trees discs and might be lurking here, if it's okay if we put your songs up online in a very own myspace page...

i included my email addy

BwaySteve?
some cool musicians from Down Under but who remained anonymous.
Ken Vogel?
Hutch?


cheers,
Gina

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 12:08:36 ET
Posted by: What?,

"Watching DF in concert, I sometimes wonder if the Ray Charles head- bobbing doesn't take him off mic sometimes...and make his voice sound weaker than it actually is".


SS- You've said a lot of dumb things here over the years but this one takes the cake.

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 11:56:43 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo

These guys are GOOD!!!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wvt3UpfbdYA&feature=PlayList&p=F5603E569C5DB02B&index=0

...and the bass is our very own Neil (Bassicinstinct)

Peace!

Ann

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 11:11:39 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Dawn, without Tony Orlando, singing Rikki.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDuB10DDt2k

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 11:10:44 ET
Posted by: Web Searcher, .

Here's something in the NY Times about letters they've received from rock stars, including DF.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/books/review/28tbr.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 10:36:16 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK

"The album Painted from memory by Burt Bacharach and Elvis Costello is pure bliss. Someone once referred to it as 'the golden standard against which all pop music should be measured'"

I wholeheartedly agree with every word of that.

Pure class to be sure.

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 10:32:47 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

Thanks for that Raj. Ruby Baby is one of my faves. I've got the DF version third on a disc back-to-back-to-back with the Drifters and Dion. How close (or far) was the DF version last night to what he did on The Nightfly ?

Watching DF in concert, I sometimes wonder if the Ray Charles head- bobbing doesn't take him off mic sometimes...and make his voice sound weaker than it actually is.

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 10:26:21 ET
Posted by: Fagenism, -

I know this is random, but here we go.

The most underrated Dan/Don album ever: Kamakiriad.

The most overrated Dan/Don album ever: Katy lied.

The most underrated Dan/Don solo ever: GodWhacker.

The most overrated Dan/Don solo ever: New frontier.

The most disappointing Dan related moment in my life: seeing Walter Becker live at the Stockholm jazz festival, looking grumpy throughout the whole set for no apparent reason, while Master Fagen was rocking the rhodes like there was no tomorrow. Every single molecule of Master Fagen is just absolute genius.

The album that is the toughest for me to relate to: Gaucho, knowing that The second arrangement and Kulee Baba would both have been Steely Dan classics if they had been recorded properly. In fact I think that Gaucho would have been the definitive Dan album if these tracks had replaced My rival and Third world man. I guess Aja is the one album that comes closest to being the definitive Dan album for me, but there is still some hope in me that their strongest album has yet to be released... Only time will tell.

I would like to finish this random post with a recommendation for all Dan fans out there who would like to take a short break from the Fagen world. The album Painted from memory by Burt Bacharach and Elvis Costello is pure bliss. Someone once referred to it as 'the golden standard against which all pop music should be measured' and I couldn't agree more with this statement. I sincerely hope that no Dan fans have missed this gem.

Over and out.

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 10:01:08 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Ha, YouTube, repository for all the detritus of media history, still, I do like checking out old clips from My Mother the Car, but, no, no recording in the Hall.

The benefit was a bit lame overall, under rehearsed, lots of schmatzy anechdotes. Mike Stoller was there (Lieber begged off with a case of the flu) and accompanied some on piano. Marvin Hamlisch led the Pops orchestra(talk about an uninspiring ensemble not helped by the fact they play like they're trussed up tighter than a Victorian dowager) in a Mendelsohn sonata peppered by the guest violinist's take on "Yakkety-Yak," right there in the middle of it, very amusing. Natalie Cole did, "I'm a Woman," with pinache in a skin tight red beaded dress. Ben E. King, no breath left whatsoever to sustain notes, he should pack it up, did "Rose in Spanish Harlem," and a "Stand by Me," finale. The Pops folks totally lost the downbeat on one of the Smoky Joe's people's rendition of "I Who Have Nothing." Embarassing; the Conductor had to stop half way through the first verse and blurt out, "One..." while bringing down the baton just like you'd kill the main switch on your breaker board at home, youch, that hurt, they f'd up like, well, like f'ups. Then the singer guy proceeded to murder, flat-out murder, the song. No one told him this was Carnegie Hall, with arguably the best acoustics in the U.S. along with my other favorite, Royce Hall at UCLA, and that with the muscular tenor he packed he probably didn't even need a mic at all. Sally Kellerman of all people did a very restrained and smoky version of "Love Potion No. 9." Shocked, and a really nice arrangement by the Pops, lots of feathered out and flattened chords.

What I came away thinking is that the Steely Dan band is just way too big and loud for Donald's pipes. Donald ran through Ruby without a hint of a slip or crack vocally. He could be heard way above the 17 pieces behind him, all of whom were swingin easy, and again, he commanded that Grand piano like, jeez, like he was the Captain of the ship. You really got to enjoy Donald as a player, he can drive the truck, makes me wonder why he doesn't do a few numbers in the middle of Steely Dan shows and does a Don Fagen Trio kinda thing. And he was so not out-of-place on the Hall's stage, a place where few rockers are ever allowed to tread. He's got a whole other side to him as a musician and performer than we ever get to witness at a Steely Dan show.

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 08:52:30 ET
Posted by: Wish I was there, the gulf coast

Thanks for the write up Raj.


In an age where giving an account of something means to record it with your cell and put it on youtube, stripping it of any aura, it's a breath of fresh air.

But seriously, I can't find it on youtube. Will you have it up today?

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 08:16:08 ET
Posted by: WORMY, NOLA

rajah

thanks for the fine color

Carnegie Hall
Donald in an intimate setting
with varied instrumentation
sounds heavenly

setlist?

Date: Tues, November 27, 2007, 08:02:20 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Dnald came on very early in the proceedings and sat dwn at the grand piano backed by the New York Pops, 3 trumpets, 3 trmbnes, six saxes, a percussionist on marimbas, drums, bass, two backup ladies and disguised in a tux, Jon Herington who by now must feel like Donald's falcon or security blanket on a Gibson. The acoustics being what they are in Carnegie Hall, Donald didn't have to strain much to be heard. Since the orchestra isn't miked individually, just the singers, Donald's pipes soared over them handily. He also played a great break there in the middle, not just his normal Red Garland block chords but some of that very nice tin pan alley/latter day ragtime ala the Piano Jazz recording. Classy arrangement, Jon hitting the requisite Steely Dan accents on guitar. Donald sauntered on, a little perfunctory waive afterwards and off he went.

Carnegie Hall was refurbished in the early 80s and again in the 90s. Seems that after the first renovation, folks complained the Stern auditorium didn't sound the same. Further investigation later revealed that a large rectangular cement slab had been added under the stage to bolster it in the first renovation. Bad idea and it was removed last decade. The hall now sounds like it used to, just a magical place where if you're even half-decent you sound like a champ. Unless you did what the Smoky Joe's Cafe people did last night: they chewed the scenery by belting out into the mic. Way over the top, annoying and s not necessary. Natalie Cole and Nino Tempo were other standouts.

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 22:53:12 ET
Posted by: Lurker Ray, Malibu

Thanks for kind thoughts Denise.
That was very sweet. How is
the new turntable treating you?
Well we dodged the third wave
out here. I was in Lost Wages
for the holiday, so all I could
do was watch from the Hard Rock.
I started telling myself after
the second fire that, "Maybe it
was time to move back to Bel-Air".
But then I get up in the morning
and see that view and I know I'm
not going anywhere.......voluntarily.
Let's hope that these State Park morons
who feel entitled and want over-night
camping in the Malibu Hills, get to talk
to some of these folks who lost their homes.
Once again, Bless the brave fire fighters
and pilots.

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 20:19:58 ET
Posted by: P, NYC

Donald performed "Ruby Baby"--apropos given it's a Leiber & Stoller tribute show.

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 19:44:53 ET
Posted by: alan and jeri, Shellharbour AU

Hi folks !

Well it's official, we are finally married.

We just wanted to thank everyone for their support, kind words and wishes.

The wedding day was lovely ( except for the damn flies ) and the reception was a blast. The DJ kept cranking out the Dan tunes all night.

We had a great crowd of friends and family with about 18 who flew in from the US to share with us.

We have uploaded a few pictures on our wedding site www.alanandjeriau.com for those who are interested and we will add more as they become available.

Thank to those who were thinking of us and we hope to see you soon...

Alan and Jeri

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 18:53:03 ET
Posted by: What a pisser, usa

I hope he has good aim with this thing

http://www.keithcarlock.com/images/Dec2006/Large/DSC00675.jpg

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 18:47:56 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower

... keithcarlock.com has been updated with a few new pics, and more Rudder shows upcoming in December. There's also a cool article in Drumhead magazine, with KC on the cover...

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 15:45:25 ET
Posted by: Fife, Baltimore, eh

Enjoy the show tonight everyone. Perhaps a taste of what is to come next fall? Whoohoo!
Oh and for the record 2vN has been my fave since it came out. I like EMG but it doesn't have the same vibe that 2Vn has which my soul loves.

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 15:31:46 ET
Posted by: Chip,

Before I spend $60.00 is the Nightfly triology worth it?

Thanks,

Chip

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 15:02:03 ET
Posted by: Fans,

Deacon- Not saying that at all. Just debating on which album is better. That's all.

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 13:53:34 ET
Posted by: DEACONBLUE,

Saying TvN and EMG are bad albums?

Think some guys here have some shit in their ears! I even think they're not Steely Danfans.

At least for me it's clear: ther aren't bad SD albums.

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 13:50:44 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, NY

Rajah and I are currently at the Park Central Hotel, rm 942. Give us a call if you'd like to meet up this evening!

G

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 11:20:30 ET
Posted by: BigAdios, NYC

Doc - I'm going to Carnegie Hall tonight. I think that Gretchen is going as well. Should be good!

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 11:00:10 ET
Posted by: steelydoc, near the Tower

anyone going to the Lauri Strauss benefit concert with DF tonight?

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 10:08:07 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

If we're talking about future classic post 2000 albums, I gotta bring up Radiohead's new one, In Rainbows (the one where you pay what you want for it).

Of course, great albums are still being recorded, but less and less in mainstream music.

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 09:55:27 ET
Posted by: Denise, H

Lurker Ray,
Everything OK in your area of Malibu?
Hope you are not near the fire.

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 08:07:38 ET
Posted by: Lucas,

Isn't Henley a queer?

Date: Mon, November 26, 2007, 01:43:31 ET
Posted by: Ha-Ha, w

Don Henley should know about "young, cute, and naked." For years, he's paid their rent, just as long as they bring a friend.

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 23:59:21 ET
Posted by: A Dan Renaissance,

Post 2000 popular music across the board--it IS tough to find something better than TvN or EMG (how about Morph?). The music scene became dominated by those who were "young, cute and naked" as Don Henley recently said. Bands put out singles, or they put out records with maybe one or two good songs. Eminem's 8 Mile was a good one, Santana's Supernatural and Shaman, both of John Mayer's, Dave Matthews and Greenday are some exceptions. There are very few out there in terms of complete albums that are epic. That is the major reason the record companies are in trouble, even without the piracy issue.

What we're talking about here is how TvN and EMG stack up against each other, and against the early Dan. In terms of how TvN and EMG stack up against post 2000 popular music, as complete albums, they are tough to beat. But let's face it, there isn't alot of competition our there, even if you keep an open mind to the dominant post 2000 forms such as hip-hop and electronica, which at the present time RULE as much as Motown, folk rock and hard rock ruled the 60's and 70's.

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 22:43:28 ET
Posted by: Trivia, USA

In regards to all the talk of new vs. old material, do you know what top 10 hit was an artist's account of how he was booed when he tried performing new material in concert and fans just wanted to hear oldies?

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 22:05:55 ET
Posted by: wormy, NOLA

fagen box arrived saturday
an additional box and a shrink wrapped set

mine (the additional outer packaging)
was signed with white marker
D F and ~

no time yet to do some justifiable listening

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 21:38:01 ET
Posted by: My Waterloo,

Katy Lied and The Royal Scam. Better

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 21:03:26 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

Geoff- You are right...I agree. Not only albums from the 2000's...Show me some STEELY DAN albums that are soooo much better than 2vN or EMG. Aja?

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 20:20:24 ET
Posted by: Geoff Lloyd, Wiggy Pad

The last two SD albums are exceptional. The only track that I don't get yet is the Last Mall. Can any of you haters of contemporary Steely Dan suggest any 2000s albums that I should be listening to? What Have I missed? What are these albums that make 2vN and EMG look so pathetic?

Geoff

214 257 8095

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 18:32:20 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

Hard Core Fan- I think just the opposite. I think that EMG songs have more of a thematic feel to them...more of a concept album... the songs tend to flow in and out of each other a lot more consistantly than on 2vN. I think that the differences in the song styles is what make 2vN cool; Negative Girl being completely different than Gaslighting Abbie...West of Hollywood being different than Janie Runaway etc. By the way I don't think that singing a jazz inflected song is whimpy. That vocal is what the song calls for. Jazz may not be to your liking but Fagan has been pretty specific about what he likes. Not to say that they may never do a "rocky" album ever again as Steely Dan. Anyway 2vN is very complex album musically and I can understand some not liking it.

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 18:17:03 ET
Posted by: Hard Core Fan,

tonybass-2VN is such a cold sounding record. Also, in my opinion a lot of the songs sound very similar. Mostly because Mr. Becker is playing the same riffs over and over again. EMG is very warm sounding. Much more akin to the sound of their 70's stuff. It's pretty obvious. All you have to do is listen.

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 18:05:29 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

Hardcorefan and A Dan Renaissance.....WHAT?

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 17:36:51 ET
Posted by: Hard Core Fan,

A Dan Renaissance- Re: 2VN - My sentiments exactly.

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 17:11:21 ET
Posted by: A Dan Renaissance,

I had given up on the Dan. I thought Kama was it, I had moved on. When TvN came out, on the first listen I skipped thru it and said WTF is this? It was a gift and I put, but did not throw it away. I almost wanted to see how far I could throw it as a mini frisbee maybe across the Potomac.

EMG was another gift, but I said this one ain't bad as I skipped thru the tracks. But it was no Scam or Aja. Wasn't even CTE or Pretzel Logic. These records were, on the first listen substandard hanging-on or "revitalizing" career crap that I had seen many times before from washed-up performers from the 60's and 70's.

But when the solo Don tour came up I started to listen, forced myself to listen and they weren't as bad as all that. But EMG is way, way, better, got more punch. The Dan needed to shake off the rust. And as Don HIMSELF says EMG is the stronger of the post 2000 Dan records. EMG has an incredible 5-song run from Godwhacker thru Lunch with Gina (YES, even Slang!), and the title track is an appropriate wind-down coda. The Last Mall would make a great show opener live. TIMTM is VERY catchy, has that piano TOOM roll going throughout the song. Blues Beach is the only shit song on the record.

TvN only has Jack of Speed, the title track, and maybe Gaslighting that I can stand listening listen to. Dupree is horrible. West of Hollywood should have been cut off at about 4-5 minutes, it goes TOO far West, past Santa Monica and sinks out in the Pacific. Janie, Gothic and Negative are too cloying, and almost an embarrassment to Don as a MAN to be singing such simpering, wimpy shit.

I'll tell you this much, if I hadn't been into the Dan in an earlier stage of life, there is NO way I would have been drawn to the Dan on the basis of TvN, and I probably would have missed out on EMG and Morph or any of the recent great shows (Soboba! Soboba! Soboba!).

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 16:16:13 ET
Posted by: tonybass, camarillo

Beast- Deacon is a great song...a classic...but I can think of several songs off of 2vN and EMG and Kama that I like much much better...including West of Hollywood.

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 12:59:24 ET
Posted by: Chris, nh

One thing I've always found interesting is when respected, prolific artists produce a work where critical and fan reaction is mixed, but the artist believes it to be their best work. The artist's judgement is very important, as they produced some incredible work in the past using said judgement, but should the critical reaction be ignored?

I love EMG and TvN in different ways. I still think TvN is the better album, and at this point I know it has nothing to do with their return after 20 years (and I doubt it does for anyone else here as well). I like the fact that there are different players on every track; it feels more like Steely Dan to me. And West of Hollywood is possibly my all time favorite song.

EMG is great, too. It's a real departure, and it sounds more like an album than any other record they've put out. I listen to it pretty often. I love Slang too.

Ranking them -- Steely Dan only:

Gaucho
TvN
Scam
Aja
EMG
Katy Lied
Pretzel Logic
Countown
CBAT

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 10:43:19 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

Dan, Kamakiriad is indeed scary sterile on CD. Isn't it curious that of all the 5.1 releases, it benefits most from the surround format? I really do think. In many ways the record is allied to Gaucho, especially in terms of this "cold" feel that DF refers to when talking about Gaucho. As an aside, I'm thinking the two songs that share an unusual kinship are Time Out of Mind and Tomorrow's Girls. Both offer irresistible hookiness, soaring choruses and seem to be celebrating impending disaster; the doomed drug-lust of TOOM and the unstoppable alien-femme invasion of TG. But anyway overall, the Gaucho DVD-A doesn't benefit as much as Kama does from that 5.1 process. There's probably some very technical reason for that which I'm not informed enough to impart, something to do with the advances in digital technology from Gaucho to Kamakiriad maybe. Or maybe the bizillion layers of the Kamakiriad just offer more in the 5-channel format. Calling all audiophiles...

Beast - The one thing I must respectfully disagree with in your very fine post is in your opining that the last two Steely Dan records are going nowhere ala the old Queen Mary. These two records are remarkable for me in that they do precisely quite the opposite. I agree many artists who continue to record decade after decade or do a comeback record are chasing shadows, hello Eagles. But the Dan's tunes of late aren't moribund songs to these ears, I believe they show a development and sophistication or a maturing if you will of the auteurs. Maybe the greatest thing, in the end, about Steely Dan is that they've never looked back, they've always been willing to move forward be that changing players and changing the idea really of what a "rock band" is. Even breaking up when they did was in a way a means of moving forward. I don't think they've ever embarassed themselves and that gets them mad props in my book.

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 10:35:41 ET
Posted by: Party List, .

01 The Royal Scam
02 Two Against Nature
03 Morph the Cat
04 Katy Lied
05 Aja
06 Everything Must Go
07 Gaucho
08 The Nightfly
09 11 Tracks of Whack
10 Countdown to Ecstasy
11 Pretzel Logic
12 Kamakiriad
13 Can't Buy a Thrill

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 10:17:27 ET
Posted by: HouDanFan, Houston

DeaconBlue,

I'm almost in total agreement with your list. Except, I could never put Can't Buy a Thrill last. I still have the memory of hearing those songs on the radio for the first time, especially the intro to Do It Again and thinking how cool is this. Other than that your right on.

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 09:11:57 ET
Posted by: Geoff, Dallas

Congratulations Mr. and Mrs. Ardron!

Geoff

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 05:42:39 ET
Posted by: DEACONBLUE,

It's clear. Everybody can have his own opinion about Steely Dan music and how to ranking their albums. Saying EMG is better than TvN is a question of feelings and deep apreciation i guess.

EMG is not realy my SD favourite altough i like it very much because my SD filosofy is that each of their albums, from CBAT to EMG, stand on his own. TvN still in my opinion one of their greatest albums ever. At least one of their most sophisticated one. Songs like Gaslighting Abbie, Almost Gothic,Negative Girl and West of Hollywood are pearls and the rest of the songs on that album can be considerated as classics too.
I like TvN a lot more now than in 2000. The songs are still growing on me and the album become better and better just like a good bottle of red Cabarnet Sauvignon wine. I know it will bore some people but here is my list how i'm ranking SD/Fagen/Becker music today.

01 Aja
02 The Nightfly
03 Two Against Nature
04 Morph the Cat
05 Royal Scam
06 Katie Lied
07 Gaucho
08 Kamakiriad
09 EMG
10 Countdown to exctassy
11 11 tracks from Whack
12 Pretzel Logic
13 Can't buy a Thrill

Very irrelevant list because it can change constantly every day.

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 01:15:15 ET
Posted by: Dan Belcher, Louisville, KY

Beast w/o A Name, I actually hated the vibes they used back in '93/'94. Since they were shoved into pretty much every song, they just ended up taking away any balls most of the songs had. Very annoying.

The production on Kamakiriad was waaaaaaaaay too cold and mechanical for my tastes (except on Snowbound, what a GREAT song in 5.1 surround). Two Against Nature was still pretty cold, but not quite as bad. Everything Must Go sounded great though, and likewise with Morph the Cat. Much warmer, looser, and more natural sounding.

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 01:08:08 ET
Posted by: warrenk,

Beast w/o a Name,

I follow you on a lot of that.

As a side note, I would definitely take Deacon over West of Hollywood, but I still think West of Hollywood is a solid song.

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 00:54:04 ET
Posted by: SS, HK

DF saying EMG is a 'stronger' album than TVN doesn't make it so. These are the guys who have been quoted as saying they don't want to be drawn on what their songs mean, that the listener should interpret for himself. That way everyone can enjoy it, or not, without being right or wrong.

DF entered his opinion and I wonder whether he'd argue much with someone he respected who saw it the other way around. It's art, after all...and you can't dictate how someone takes it. It's like berating a non SD fan for not 'getting'it. It would help though to know DF's criteria. The songs themselves, the playing, the concept, the production...????

At the end of the day I still prefer TVN simply because I continue to hear new things in the songs. I don't get that as much with EMG but I'll be happy if I eventually do, and will have no problem changing my mind later.

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 00:21:54 ET
Posted by: Beast w/o A Name, Lawn Guyland

Every so often I need to weigh in on a discussion. I click on to the blue book only periodically but I am a long time SD netizen.

Oh Hail, mighty St. Al, ye of the Banyan Trees.

This whole EMG vs 2vN thing rings a little hollow to me.

It's like comparing The Who's Face Dances (1981) to It's Hard (1982). Two maybe 3 standout tracks on each while the rest is serviceable, if not forgettable WHO music. I remember making a mix tape (cassette, remember those?) of the best tracks from those two albums and calling it, "Who Cares?"

For me, I do not and probably will not ever tire of hearing Aja. It is the pinnacle song of SD's career pinnacle album. The Royal Scam and Aja are the ones I go to most, as a lifelong fan.

2vN had some good material.. Janie Runaway, Gaslighting Abbie and Negative Girl are my faves, while EMG's standouts were undoubtedly Green Book, Lunch with Gina and the title track.

I have found the later period DF and SD material a little sterile in terms of production, though they seemed to loosen up a bit on EMG. The drums on Kamakiriad were alienatingly mechanical sounding. No warmth. Perhaps D + W might do with an outside producer to bring another perspective in. I would love to see them change the instrumentation up a bit as well. We've seen the same live band in terms of horn section, backup singers, etc. for years and years now.
Having said that, Freddie Washington, Jeff Young and Roger Rosenberg have been refreshing additions to the tourning band in 2006-7.

Couldn't Walt or Jon Herrington strap on an acoustic guitar for some of the more textured work ? I've already said everythning I can possibly think of about their relaxed sense of challenging themselves with their own repetoire. Joe Jackson, who has covered a variety of pre-Scam SD songs live for years now, is a great example of an artist who rearranges his own material tour after tour simply for no other reason than to keep himself interested. Check out his live album from 1986. Great stuff.

Remember on their Steely Dan's 93 and 94 tours, having a vibes player or the ingeniously economical and shrewd use of the 3 woodwind players? Two flutes and a soprano sax on True Companion or two flutes (emulating the string parts) and tenor on FM. That was brilliant.

I'll leave with one last thought. When Pink Floyd released Division Bell nearly 14 years ago, they did their last massive tour. I saw them at the intimate setting of the Rose Bowl in Pasadena
(that's about an 80,000 seater). When they played San Diego that same week, the review of that show in the LA Times eloquently described their new material as being, "Like the Queen Mary (a defunct ocean liner no longer sea worthy), stately as one could wish, but going nowhere fast."

Anyone who says they prefer West of Hollywood over Deacon Blues is... well... missing the boat.

Beast

Date: Sun, November 25, 2007, 00:00:30 ET
Posted by: Dan Belcher, Louisville, KY

For what it's worth, I still don't get all the hate on Slang of Ages. Good bouncy groove, those great horns, the little organ bits, and a fantastic bridge. Yeah, Walter's singing, but I dig his voice. It fits a bluesy song pretty well.

Date: Sat, November 24, 2007, 23:39:08 ET
Posted by: Lutz, SF

Had the same reaction as tonybass to Abbie and the whole building had to suffer.
Songs on 2VN are perfect. It's harkens back a little to the 70's era in the sense that many sessions were spliced together. The end result is stellar, and one is able to tell the different settings.
EMG is just one run of perfect music, Mall, Blues Beach, Slang and all.
It's a little more organic.
I had the same reaction to Becker's guitar intro on The last Mall
as to the bass on #1 2VN and it kept going from there.
As much as I love West of H,
EMG as the last song of EMG is the tipping point for me.
And thank God it's not the last song of the last album as was feared by many!!!

Date: Sat, November 24, 2007, 21:44:25 ET
Posted by: Kanye on SD Ten?,

Since Fagen finally broke down and let Walt sing on EMG, maybe he is getting more with it in his old age and will have a few tunes featuring Kanye, Jay-Z, Ludacris, Nas or maybe Eminem on vocals for their next record. McCartney and Michael Jackson, Elton and George Michael. Each of them did it with their popular successors. These guys like The Game or Snoop could rap over tunes and definitely add some true blackness to something like Brite Nitegown, Lunch With Gina or even Morph.

Think of the possibilities...

Date: Sat, November 24, 2007, 19:49:43 ET
Posted by: Hutch, here