Steely Dan Fan's BlueBook-dandom.com's Guestbook
All Times are Eastern (New York City) Time Zone.
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Chat often convenes around 9:00 p.m. NYC time/8:00 p.m. Chicago Time
While there is no set topic, discussion should be vaguely Steely Dan tangential.
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Click for the APRIL 2005 BlueBook Entries
SEPTEMBER 2004--MARCH 2005 BlueBook Entries
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 23:37:04 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Yep, the gist of my comments basically have been that "most of todays music sucks". However, allow me to explain my statement. We have only one Jazz radio station in our area, it's through a community college, and they can't afford to get good Jazz so I like 1/10 of the stuff they play and the rest might as well be elevator music. Then if you move over to the Pop stations, you'll find that 99% of the shit they play could be produced better by monkeys. And then there's all the death-metal, grunge, and rap that plays in my autobody shop... I leave that place everyday wanting to kill myself & all the people around me. And alternative? I like the stuff my girlfriend plays (it's not really alternative, but that's what she likes to call it), but the rest is made for surburbian teenagers who like complaining. Out of about 3 dozen radio stations in my area, I listen to 2: the 1 classic rock station, and NPR. What am I left with? The idea that all modern music sucks. Am I wrong? Yes. But at least you know why I said that.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 20:15:53 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Chrysler! You kind of cut and pasted 2 different posts of mine there.
I didn't say anything about Steely Dan sidemen at all. I said the sidemen on We Want Miles (the album The Alternative Man by the sax player Bill Evans is arguably the greatest jazz/rock album of the last 3rd of the 20th century, and everything you ever read about it will tell you so. It's like it was beamed here directly from the gods.)
This week? Oz Noy's album Ha! Last week - The complete Bert Williams, 5 stars in every review. Last month? John Legend's album is really fucken strong, dude. As a matter of fact, on John Legend's album, cuts 7-10 might be the strongest four song in a row rip I've ever heard on any CD, in any genre of music, ever.
Paul said "most of today's music sucks" or something like that. Of course, he's conversant with the 20 or so new jazz CDs that Downbeat reviews every month, the endless blues/roots rock CDs on www.antones.com, ditto on www.alligator.com, yadda yadda. Come on. Paul, there is so much excellent music out there that none of us will ever get to it all, ever.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 19:41:48 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Speaking as the neophyte in discussion, I was never planning on buying every album of every person loosely associated with Steely Dan. Hell, I probably won't go any farther than Miles Davis and his group.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 17:40:28 ET
Posted by: W1P, Blue Line
Speaking of trying to turn people on to things, Yellowjackets founding member Robben Ford has a stunning cover of Any Colour You Like (backed by a couple of "fair" players, Tony Franklin on Bass, Aynsley Dunbar on Drums and Steve Porcaro on Keys) that appears on the Pink Floyd tribute CD "An Allstar Lineup Performing the Songs of Pink Floyd" (Skunk Baxter is on this too).
So if you're a Yellowjackets fan, or a Robben Ford fan, you OWE it to yourself to buy this record.
Willie Dixon???? Was he in Foghat?
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 17:26:37 ET
Posted by: hoops,
thanks, wooly man!
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 17:19:10 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
PQ: I meant to say not only the sidemen on Miles' records, but Steely Dan's also-- do you really believe every album by Evans, Carlton, Mounsey, Miller, et al., is as good as every album (or just about every album) by Miles Davis or SD? C'mon, use a little discrimination here. Name some albums as good, or better (!?!?), than SD that have come out the past few weeks.
My point is, when introducing a neophyte to music you (and I) love, use a little discrimination, don't suggest they run out and get EVERY album by EVERY sideman who ever appeared on the artists-in-question's recordings. Or for that matter, EVERY album by a particular artist. For example, I'm always trying to convert the uninitiated to the glories of the Yellowjackets; I tell them to get RUN FOR YOUR LIFE and listen to and absorb that for a while, before they decide whether to pursue the 'Jackets any further.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 17:18:44 ET
Posted by: wooly man ,
"15 Minutes with Walter Becker"
April issue of Sound & Vision Magazine
"Walter Becker is exactly one-half of the reason Steely Dan endures. Becker, along with SD partner Donald Fagen, raised the bar on recording quality in the '70s, a hallmark that's held true today through the duo's three forays into the realm of surround sound: Gaucho, Two Against Nature, and Everything Must Go. (Their fourth surround effort, Pretzel Logic, is "finished, and it turned out great" according to engineer Elliot Scheiner, but it still awaits scheduling. And The Royal Scam is in the wings.
Following his participation on a panel I moderated on the future of surround sound at CES in Las Vegas this past January, Becker and I convened back in New York a few weeks later to discuss the format and other technical matters. "Perhaps all surround systems should be placed underground," he mused at one point. Hmm. And maybe the next Steely Dan record should be titled "Droll with the Changes".
-- Mike Mettler.
Q: When you first started mixing in surround, would it be fair to say you were attempting to "reinterpret" things you'd already done?
A: Actually, I'm still getting used to stereo [both laugh]. Surround is a chance to refresh your relationship with old stuff that you've done: revisit the master tapes and see that they're properly served as you take another shot at rendering the music in this new format.
But the whole point of surround sound is novelty. Not novelty in the sense of cheapness, but novelty in terms of creating new effects that we haven't heard before in music. The thing is, there isn't a right way or a wrong way to do it. To try and impose some kind of orthodoxy on it at this point is silly.
Q: I like how the surround mix on Two Against Nature often makes me feel like I'm in the middle of things. The drums hand percussion hit me right in the chest.
A: While we were working on that one, we came to the conclusion that if the stuff is too spread out amongst the speakers, you end up losing some of the impact of the rhythm section -- and the record in general -- so we ended up moving toward a giant mono sound [laughs], with splashes of separation here and there for fun.
Q: Do you iPod?
A: Not yet, but my kids do. I'm considering purchasing one just so I can play music in my car. Downloading in general has exposed kids to a lot of music that they would not have heard otherwise. Without weighing in on the commercial considerations, that is a good thing.
Q" What's your take on satellite radio?
A: The technology by which it's achieved is less important than the fact that people can tune in to a variety of music. Anything that introduces elements of variety and musicality and shares information about who's playing the music is tremendous. "
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 16:31:11 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, Spotzylvania
... and now here's something we hope you'll really like ...
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 16:27:01 ET
Posted by: Willie Dixon, Universal Metro Station
You weren't riding on the Metro, Pinka-delic, that was the Redline to Shaboigan mahn, ever wonder what was in them pickle chips???
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 16:15:46 ET
Posted by: Wh1pped, CIty Walk
strange, I've picked up a shuttle as late as midnight there (but perhaps not the "redline shuttle" -- any way, the exercise after a couple of preztels, pickles chips and cold ones will do you good ;-)
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 16:11:04 ET
Posted by: Boris, Whydontchatake a Peak
Ooh boy...
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 16:08:30 ET
Posted by: Mr. Big, Spotsilania
Destroy Moose and Squirrel!
Destroy Moose and Squirrel!
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 16:06:30 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan Again Again, And Again ...
Hi Angel and W1P -
Rajah and I are talking on the phone right now, but I wanted to take this opportunity to thank both of you for that park and ride information. As for me, I've been told by the venue that I am to park in either Frankenstein, or Jurassic. But, to unload my keyboard, I am to park in Rocky & Bullwinkle.
I MUST BE ON ACID !!!
Stevee(Owlsley)Dan
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 16:00:20 ET
Posted by: angel,
Redline shuttle to Universal City only runs til 7pm.
Hike the hill, or park in the structure.
--
Joey: You are so right, it's always about sex (or lack thereof). :-)
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 15:43:09 ET
Posted by: Joey,
" See, it's all about...trouble. "
I thought it was all about.....Sex ?!?!
J.J. King !
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 15:23:08 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
I remember probably 20 years ago I read a blindfold test with Marcus Miller in Downbeat. One of the pieces they played for him was this like perfect, slam dunk, this is the 479th take with 3,000 overdubs bass solo by Jeff Berlin. Marcus said something like, "So where are the mistakes?" This remark applies to Steely Dan exactly. You notice on EMG the mistakes are left in? What might or might not that say?
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 15:09:00 ET
Posted by: W1P, Metro Redline
For those of you low on cash, if you want to avoid the parking cost at Universal, you can either take the Metro red line to the Universal City station and pick up the tram across Lankershim or you can park your car in the redline parking lot and do the same thing.
W1P ---> providing more useless information for the Blue
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 14:41:30 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan again, S H A M E L E S S .. P L U G G I N G Dept.
Rajah - very nice to see you last night, and I will see you tomorrow night when ...
PRETZEL LOGIC - A STEELY DAN REVUE
APPEARING LIVE AT B.B. KING'S AT THE UNIVERSAL STUDIOS CITYWALK
HOLLYWOOD, CALIFORNIA
FRIDAY NIGHT APRIL 1ST, 2005 AT 8:00 PM.
General admission is $15.00 but if you go to our band website at www.pretzellogicband.com you can print out a ticket that will allow you to enter BB King's for only $5.00. Print out as many as you like.
Parking for Universal is around $10.00, so I suggest carpooling ... bring 40 or 50 of your closest friends with you.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 14:33:49 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, Waiting for the curtain to go up
Paul - we're happy that a young guy like you is hanging around here trying to make sense of a music and a state of mind that is becoming more and more rarified. Many people who post here are extremely advanced music fans and listeners. Many have a deep and varied literary knowledge. Of course, some of us are just obnoxious (present writer included ...).
PQ is making the point (I think) that there is fantastic music being written, recorded, and released every day, but most of it is far far away from the mainstream. If you learn how to find this music, then, and I agree with PQ, you will never run out of great and inspiring music to expose yourself to.
And now for a "late-in-the-game' correction:
On the Becker's "11TOW" discussion, I cited the wrong song from the CD. I cited "Lucky Henry" instead of "Hat Too Flat". The rest of that post I will stand behind. And by the way, I am the FOOL (who would say that). Thank you.
SteveeDan
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 14:18:38 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Personally, I do not place instrumental pop, rock, jazz, blues, anything really in the same category as a song with artful lyrics sung by someone who knows what they're doing with the vocal instrument. It simply does not hold the same place in my cerebral cortex. Remember when Walter was saying that he was at first intending 11TOW to be an instrumental offering then he just thought, and I don't remember his exact words, that it wouldn't pack the punch that music with words would? I feel the same way. So for me, I don't care how good "Kind of Blue" was, and damn, it was awesome, it will never hold the same place for me as an AJA, for instance. Records like that do not come out every month or year. It's more like, once a generation.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 13:46:48 ET
Posted by: W1P, Amoeba Records
When you go to the record store, Dire Straights, the McCoys, Rick Derringer and Foghat are all in the "rock" section while Chysler's jazzmen are elsewhere (at Amoeba, they have an entire room devoted to jazz that is bigger than most record stores). Anybody here have kids? Pick up They Might Be Giants, Here Come the ABCs. The kids love it and the music is very tolerable especially when compared with Barney or the Wiggles
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 13:24:52 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Paul...you are sooooooo mistaken. An album that is at or above Steely Dan level comes out every single week, your whole life. Excellent music is all around you, everywhere you look, every day.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 12:51:15 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
That was many moons ago, lifetimes away, memorialized only on black vinyl, a shadowy memory from the fading annals of the ghosts of hip-ness past.
Baba Marley's Poltergeist Rajah
[insert punky laughter from the kitchen here]
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 12:50:34 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I didn't say ALL contemporary music is crap, just most of it.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 12:47:37 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Rick Derringer, maybe along side Foghat. But Mark Knopfler (and Dire Straits)? No.
jim (who admittedly ignores much of the Foghat discussion)
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 12:20:48 ET
Posted by: W1P Infiniti, LA
Man, when they tapped Rick Derringer and Mark Knopfler, they had to be "in that section of the store."
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 11:25:23 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ
Gina, you're welcome. Actually I only just came here from Mizar5 and I saw your post there on Ms. Agasee. I look forward to the eventual interview as I'll be curious to see what she has to say about our boys. Can't seem to get to PQ's forum this morning as I'm getting the generic "you can't get there from here screen." Will try later.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 11:02:24 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
I used my diatonic where my chromatic shouldda been.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 10:50:52 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Never ask middle-aged men questions Paul, we'll tell you more than you want or need to know. (Although what's been suggested here is right on) Remember "Middle-aged Guy" that Mike Myers used to do on SNL? Like that. So here's mine then...
I think that the Miles crew, great contemporary players like Stern and Oz Noy, would be difficult for a young person to jump right into and access. Remember that when bee-bop gave way to the freakazoid stuff, aka that whole fusion, atonal, diatonic scale thing, Don and Walt hopped over the fence to pop, rock and blues.
I took the Allmans/Traffic gateway and look at me, I'm OK, even though I listened to "Do It Again," "Dirty Work," and "Kings'" on the way into the office this morning. After 32 years you'd think I'd be sick of it. Eclectic and insatiable peregrine jazz gypsies like our Peter Q have their own chapter in the DSM IV, however. That's the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders which I keep handy here at all times. So pick your poison.
With regard to SD altered blues stuff:
When a tribute band like Pretzel Logic play a place like BB King's on Universal City Walk, the altered blues must come out to play. The tourists expect it at BB Kings, whaddya gonna play "The Night Chicago Died?" Course not, you play the altered 12-bar blues. There's two parts to the blues it seems to me, said Mr. Leopold Bloom, the musical element consisting of a root chord, subdominant chord, dominant chord progression, Howard would write in that code of his, I-IV-V, and the emotional element of "trouble." That's what the lyrics accompanying those melancholy, mournful, sometimes angry or penitent, resigned or enraged cyclical sounds being made by the blues chord progressions, a reflection of life on the delta, the bayou, the plantation, the big ugly city (Royal Scam).
So here's what I'd expect to hear at a Blues music venue from the Steely Dan catalogue:
Do It Again
Dirty Work
Black Friday
Pretzel Logic
Night by Night
Deacon Blues
Don't Take Me Alive
Black Cow
What a Shame About Me
Things I Miss the Most
See, it's all about...trouble.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 10:01:17 ET
Posted by: Gina, Mizar5
Daddy G. i left a PM in PQ's quarters, but in casu you swing by here first: Rosanne Agasee will send a copy of her CD and talk about her choice for the Steely Dan song "Home At Last" soon ... thanks for finding the info :-)
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 08:22:50 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Because you're falling into the trap of believing all contemporary music is either elctronica, alt rock, rap, or warmed over classic rock. You gotta get on www.mikestern.org or ww.oznoy.com and see what's going down on the scene.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 07:47:58 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Looking around for "We Got Miles"... can't find it anywhere free (like the public library), guess I'll have to buy it.
Just out of curiosity, how did this thread dealing with suggesting music to me come about? Don't get me wrong, I thank you all, but what did I say that started this?
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 06:46:44 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Chrysler - interesting that you would pick 3 rock albums as being the "gateway" to Steely Dan.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 06:12:36 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Chrysler - which album by a sideman on We Want Miles isn't that good?
Paul - by my calculation, if you just follow Marcus Miller's production career and do the sideman thing with that alone, it's like 4,000 albums before I stopped calculating. And will include 31 different Steely Dan players.
Or look, you could listen to the 9 Steely Dan albums 82 times a week if you like. Psychiatrists have names for this.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 04:33:04 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, Land of the Aliquippa
W1P: I don't think D & W go to that section of the store. I mean really. Try to spot them in the Louis Armstrong, Jelly Roll Morton, and Bobby Bland section instead.
Paul: Don't bankrupt yourself, buddy; by all means, get WE WANT MILES, but be careful about picking up all the sidemen's albums. Not many of them are all that good. When I was your age, the gateway to Steely Dan was ALLMAN BROTHERS LIVE AT FILMORE EAST, ABRAXAS (Santana, when he was good), LOW SPARK OF HIGH-HEELED BOYS (Traffic). Also, if you love the Beatles (how could anyone NOT?), I don't see how you could fail to appreciate Peter Gabriel; check out the collection HIT (compiled by Gabriel himself, I believe) as a starter.
Rajah: Harold Bloom's THE WESTERN CANON is indispensible, but I like the biography of Harold's brother even better-- THE ADVENTURES OF LEOPOLD BLOOM, by Stephen Dedalus-- it's quite an odyssey.
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 02:54:01 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
Walt and Don listen to Foghat. R E S P E C T
Date: Thurs, March 31, 2005, 01:42:48 ET
Posted by: Seth,
Joey,
Most SD songs from 1972 on are "blues based"
Peter Q, Nice post to Paul! Was that really you?...... Peter Q?
Date: Wed, March 30, 2005, 20:19:28 ET
Posted by: Joey,
" What Steely Dan songs are Blues Based, minus the usual suspects? "
...all of " Everything Must Go " .
J. Fly !!!
Date: Wed, March 30, 2005, 18:38:15 ET
Posted by: angel,
What Steely Dan songs are Blues Based, minus the usual suspects?
Josie
Chain Lightning
Pretzel Logic
Last Mall
Date: Wed, March 30, 2005, 14:39:20 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Here's another suggestion:
Friday, April 1st @ 8:30 PM
BB King's, Universal City Walk:
***The Pretzel Logic Band***
One long set of hits, heavy on altered blues, $10.00 cover.
Come for the music, stay for the pickle chips.
Get out the house Lucille,
If you don' your sister wheeel,
Baba Been Deep-Fried Since the Day That We Met Rajah
Date: Wed, March 30, 2005, 13:43:52 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
PQ, thanks for the suggestions.
Date: Wed, March 30, 2005, 13:14:31 ET
Posted by: angel,
Some details on the Modern Drummer event that Keith Carlock will be attending.
--
Billboard.com:
From Sheila E and jazz great Roy Haynes to Deep Purple's Ian Paice and the Red Hot Chili Peppers' Chad Smith, the Modern Drummer Festival Weekend 2005 will feature the participation of a host of celebrated percussionists. Set for May 28-29 at the New Jersey Performing Arts Center in Newark, the event will boast concert performances and clinics, as well as autograph sessions and giveaways.
Others confirmed to appear include Tool's Danny Carey, Shadows Fall's Jason Bittner, Lamb Of God's Chris Adler, Keith Carlock (Steely Dan, Sting) and Zoro (Lenny Kravitz).
Tickets range from $60 to $125 and are available through the venue's box office. For more information on the event, visit ModernDrummer.com.
Date: Wed, March 30, 2005, 10:08:30 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ
Shopping Channel host jazzes up her career
By SIDURA LUDWIG, Special to the Canadian Jewish News
http://www.cjnews.com/viewarticle.asp?id=5950
Since the album by Rosanne Agasee is titled "Home At Last," I'm assuming that's the SD song she does. Sting is also mentioned for source material, but not what song(s).
Date: Wed, March 30, 2005, 08:57:44 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Paul - if you like Steely Dan, and want to see what they see, why not just listen to what they listen to?
Just get the album We Want Miles and follow the 5 players who play with Miles on it: Bill Evans, Mike Stern, Marcus Miller, Al Foster, and Mino Cinelu.
Get their albums and all the albums the sidemen on their albums play on, and so on, and you'll always have enough new music to last you the rest of your life without having to look far or hard. And you'll find you cross paths with everyone who's ever played on a Steely Dan album in the process.
Respect the people that the people you respect respect, and you can never go wrong. E.g., listen to what Steely Dan themselves listen to. Start with Red Garland piano trios.
Date: Wed, March 30, 2005, 08:05:41 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Who DOESN'T like the Beatles? Anyone who says "no" hasn't listened to anything but "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" type music. That's why I say they don't count. Perhaps I was wrong in my comment.
Date: Wed, March 30, 2005, 07:55:55 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, the world that we used to know
felonius--That's what you get for reading that trash, man.
Hunker down and read the Post!
Date: Wed, March 30, 2005, 03:43:05 ET
Posted by: I Drove The Chrysler, PA
Paul: Dude, you're gonna have to explain how the Beatles "don't really count." What!?
Date: Wed, March 30, 2005, 02:21:46 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', Hong Kong
Hey Paul.....you're reminding me a bit of a friend of mine from the UK, now living in HK.
He's in his early 30s. We've listened to a swack of music in the last year and watched a number of music DVDs, including the Classic Album Series (making of.....). One day he said...it was great to hear musicians talking about making music. How they do it, etc. What I didn't realize and what he explained to me was that most of the music he listens to was electronic (UK club scene background). He himself had composed lots of this as well...but a group of musicians writing then playing and performing together....this seemed strange to him.
I wouldn't have believed a guy in his 30s who has a pretty good ear for music would have been so far removed from what I thought was a mainstream scene. Maybe I'm the one who's removed ???
Anyway, he's now a big Michael McDonald fan, loves Tower of Power...and has gone foraging for the likes of Alan Holdsworth. And yes, he fancies SD.....especially the 'unexpected chord changes.'
Date: Tues, March 29, 2005, 23:27:29 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I just introduced my friend to the Dan. She had never heard of them before, but she at least recognized "Reelin'" and "Rikki". I haven't heard if she liked the sampler CD I gave her... I'll have to let everyone know. I find it interesting to see what people think of the band with little-to-no background reference.
It's not suprising that your students haven't heard of Fagen. I'm not sure what age level you teach, but I would assume its between High School and College, and that's about the age bracket I hang around. Frankly, if you had asked me 6 months ago what I thought of DF, I wouldn't have had the slightest clue who you were talking about. Basically, my generation has very little interest in the past masters, and are satisfied with the computer generated BS that record companies put out. It's interesting though, I never really had a favorite band (the Beatles don't really count) until I came across Steely, and in most circumstances I hate pop music... but I think only because 99% of today's pop is, like I said, computer generated BS: computer enhanced voices, synthesized or prerecorded instruments, no freaking soul.
Date: Tues, March 29, 2005, 23:13:44 ET
Posted by: the grooveblaster,
A remix of 'Josie'
In 1977 (When Josie Comes Home)
http://ctomag.com/may16cto/josie.mp3
Date: Tues, March 29, 2005, 19:13:42 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Some interesting posts...thanks for the reading.
Weavil:
Thanks for posting about TR's response. That one made me think a DF/TR tour under some banner is just a bit less possible, but it's just one instance. Regardless, thanks!
Paul:
I use I.G.Y. in a lecture on technology, architecture and city planning. Makes for a great discussion, although I wish more students had heard of Fagen.
Be well all of you.
jim
Date: Tues, March 29, 2005, 13:47:00 ET
Posted by: Blue Floyd, West Coast Tour Dates
Blue Floyd has announced (sort of) their west coast tour dates in May:
May 2005
15 - TBA, Seattle, WA
17 - TBA, Portland, OR
18 - TBA, Bend, OR
19 - The Jungle, Eugene, OR
20 - The Phoenix Thr., Petaluma, CA
21 - TBA, San Francisco, CA
22 - TBA, Santa Cruz, CA
23 - TBA, Sacramento, CA
24 - House Of Blues, Anaheim, CA
25 - TBA
26 - The Belly-Up, San Diego, CA
27 - House Of Blues, West Hollywood, CA
Date: Tues, March 29, 2005, 13:39:09 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
Twisted and cool. Well, one outta two ain't bad.
Go to steelydan.com, peruse the lyrics carefully, have your copy of The Western Canon by Harold Bloom handy and you can actually group many songs together by recurring thematic elements and get a bunch of ideas or just parallels from which to draw upon and beef up just about any kind of paper you're doing. English, Anthropology, Theology, History, Psych, Film Noir, Music Theory, obviously, but even Quantum Physics. Organic Chemistry, well, maybe not, no wait, Kid Charlemange.
Is it a floor wax, is it a desert topping, no...it's Steely Dan.
Like Oxy-Clean, it'll make your paper brighter and daisy fresh.
Date: Tues, March 29, 2005, 13:30:02 ET
Posted by: felonius,
Just a heads up. A poster at Daily Kos was calling Steely Dan the worst Rock and Roll band ever. Good site, but boy are they ignorant about the Dan.
Date: Tues, March 29, 2005, 12:28:11 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Good luck on your paper!
Date: Tues, March 29, 2005, 11:15:37 ET
Posted by: PJ, SUNY P-burgh
Thanks for all the tips guys! Everyone on this board seems to be awesome writers...I am a younger Steely Dan fan and am now just starting to realize the twisted and cool stuff in the lyrics....don't suppose I can convince anyone to write this paper for me I suppose...Thanks! -PJ
Date: Tues, March 29, 2005, 08:22:11 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Had this weird dream last night. It was a music video, of a 2nd arrangement cover. I've never heard a cover before, but I could hear all the slight instrumental differences and the voice was different. It was black&white, the singer was on a bus, I think I recall it raining in the background, and I only rememeber the first stanza. Kinda weird, I guess I've been listening to that song way too much lately...I probably shouldn't use it as my alarm :)
Date: Mon, March 28, 2005, 20:29:40 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Pauly-Buck: hold your applause, it was just one man's A-hole ravings, but it came from the heart...
I'm very gratified if you found it in the least bit entertaining.
Date: Mon, March 28, 2005, 20:20:15 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Rajah, I love your little essay about "The Steely Dan" show on feverdreams. Bravo. Standing ovation. I wish I had a better version of the song, all I have is some really horrible quality copy that sounds like someone stuck a tape deck next to their seat and let it go all night. You can't even hear the lyrics. But Raj, awesome review.
Date: Mon, March 28, 2005, 17:16:09 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
That was all done in one tune: The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. After 2 verses you prayed for the M-F'er either to sink or for your own swift and merciful demise, whichever came first.
Date: Mon, March 28, 2005, 16:48:12 ET
Posted by: W1P, Cloud City
I am developing a concept album in conjunction with, err, well, no one right now. A man is onboard an airplane when the Captain comes on to warn that they have 45 minutes until the crash (sort of that Mt Fuji scenario from a few years back). The album starts with the terror of the warning, then moves on to a flashback on the man's life -- the regrets, the joys, the triumphs, the missed opportunities. It then closes with the terror of the impending crash. If I were a musician, I'd want it to sound like Pink Floyd.
Date: Mon, March 28, 2005, 15:21:45 ET
Posted by: weavil, madison, wisco USA
last night, sunday march 27, todd rundgren hosted a chat at the Interocitor of Patronet.com, his subscription service. he seemd very relaxed and to be having fun...also the "I" worked more smoothly, faster, and better than ever for us 'subbers'.
although i arrived to the chat late i did manage to throw out a question that TR fielded:
TR-i: "weavil wants to know about writing with joe or donald
anything is possible. donald has been working on a solo record, so he's probably written it by now.
joe and i will be on the bus a lot-maybe something will happen."
"Happy Spring Everybody!!!"
there will probably be much more on this at this thread
http://forum.trconnection.com/viewthread.php?tid=4731
including, hopefully, some screen shots captured during the chat
see ya in late summer/early fall for the TR/Fagen Rock'n'Soul Experience!
Date: Mon, March 28, 2005, 13:34:41 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
I'm thinking take advantage of all the settings the novel affords (it is a dystopic work, like pretty much all of Steely Dan):
Westphalia
Portugal
the New World
mythical Eldorado
Cartegena
Constantinople
Date: Mon, March 28, 2005, 13:24:40 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I have the feeling this is going to turn into one big music video medly, with a new song for every scene... we're shooting for hilarious. And if we've got music playing, I won't have to narrate. Granted, it'll be a tad bit confusing, but it'll set well with my class.
Date: Mon, March 28, 2005, 13:14:08 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
Varying array of pop songs are perfect for the plot movements of Candide. Sounds like fun.
Date: Mon, March 28, 2005, 13:12:03 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
I'm thinking IGY is perfect for the begining of the novel where everything is exciting and new ala "The Love Boat" and Candide and the lovely Conegonde(?) are exploring physigomy whereas West of Hollywood is almost perfect for the end of the book.
Date: Mon, March 28, 2005, 13:08:31 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
The thing about IGY though, is that the theme and irony of the song in relation to our movie will be immediately apparent to my Lit. class audience. The themes of "West of Hollywood" aren't right on the surface and take several runs through to understand. Also, we're going for the humor aspect, which IGY will amplify.
We will be needing more than one song for this video, so more suggestions are welcome... and (gasp!) they don't have to be from Steely Dan. Right now I'm thinking some early Beatles would work for parts of the plot... "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" for when Candide falls in love with Cunegonde.
Again, this really has nothing to do with Steely Dan.
Date: Mon, March 28, 2005, 12:58:19 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
IGY will be the theme song, but we're of course open to others, like West of Hollywood. Thanks.
Date: Mon, March 28, 2005, 12:45:13 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
What I do remember about Candide from reading it about 30 years ago is that after all the crap that comes down on him, at the end all he wanted to do was "tend his garden" and I thought back then, well, that sucks, but now that I think about it...seems pretty reasonable. I'm thinking of themes from West of Hollywood, "don't ask me to access the dreams I don't have now," and "I'm way deep into nothing special." I think it's in the natural order of things for a person of a certain age who's been around, for lack of a better description, to gravitate toward that ethos.
Date: Mon, March 28, 2005, 12:30:03 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Anyone read Voltaire's Candide? My buddies and I are producing a little movie based off it for a school project. We're going to use IGY as the theme song. Those who've read the book would see how that's appropriate, as Candide (the book's main character) continually has crap happen to him for the entire course of the book, and still remains eternally optimistic. Because it'll have a copyrighted song in it, I won't put the video on my website, so I'll just have to tell you how it turns out.
OK, so this really has nothing to do with Steely Dan, other than the fact that we're using IGY, but the board's been dead for a few days.
Date: Sun, March 27, 2005, 09:04:29 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, hoppin'
And he's not alone, Angel. Remember Jude, who jumped on a train from the midwest to come to the Roseland shows without knowing a soul? Several of the 'crew took her in and gave her a place to sleep and a gang to hang with. What a great story!
Several others come to mind: Girlmargaret, Matt from TN, also a guy from Vancouver who used to join us in the Green Room during the '03 tour, the lovely Laina and Andy Metzger, (although he may have graduated into his 20's by now).
It sounds trite, but music is timeless...and many of us that come here agree that Steely Dan writes the music to the soundtracks of our lives. As always, thanks to hoops for providing us a forum and place to gather!
Date: Sun, March 27, 2005, 01:20:12 ET
Posted by: angel,
Hey, great follow ups to this conversation. Thanks Hoops for the Digest links.
Paul: Thank goodness you are almost 18. My kidlet is going to be 15 and I was feeling sort of like I was talking to jailbait or something, but in reverse. By the way, don't put yourself down for "getting" The Dan. We understand.
Date: Sat, March 26, 2005, 21:38:12 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I'm tingling like an isotope; those 2000 Digests give me the chills. I got almost as caught up in the excitement of the pending TvN release as you all did...just by reading your discussions. I would have listened to those 1:00 preview mp3s every day... SD sure does know how to promote an album.
What a wonderful service the Digest is, then and now. Thanks Hoops!
Date: Sat, March 26, 2005, 18:19:55 ET
Posted by: Bob,
Brisnley Schwarz talks about Steely Dan's influence on his playing:
http://www.mondoguitars.com/html/brinsley_schwarz_2004.html
Date: Sat, March 26, 2005, 18:15:57 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Thanks for the prodding Scott! As it happens, I've been playing the hell out of 2vN lately so glad that Paul and others are on the same page as me.
The archives have been down for some time but here they are back up for January-February-March 2000 It really brought back some memories. And in fact, the loyal Dandom did indeed write the best stuff on 2vN for the Digest.
If you go to the following URL you will get a list of these three months
http://www.dandom.com/dandomdigest/sd2000/
Specifically,
January 2000
http://www.dandom.com/dandomdigest/sd2000/sd012000/
February 2000
http://www.dandom.com/dandomdigest/sd2000/sd022000/
March 2000
http://www.dandom.com/dandomdigest/sd2000/sd032000/
Regarding the drumming thread, Check out the third dandon digest that came out on March 1. That whole digest is devoted solely to the drumming on 2vN. More on drumming on the subsequent days's Digests.
It's amazing that in March 2000 we had **38** Digests! WOW! Danfans sure had a lot of great things to say.
I will make this all look prettier and searchable as well. But in the mean time this should keep you busy.
Finally: In the Digest that came out exactly 5 years ago today, there was this:
--------------------------------------------------
From: Jeffplayba
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 03:41:03 EST
Subject: Ann De Siecle
Ann De Siecle is a reference to the rhyming French term "Fin de Siecle" which
means "End of the Century." Donald pronounces de siecle in such a way so
that we Americans would detect the spelling and thus the reference (those of
us who know French and are familiar with the term). Native Frenchmen
actually pronounce it like "See-eck," without the "L" sound. I for one
appreciated Donald's pronunciation.
It seems evident to me that an initial goal of Don & Walt was to have 2vN
completed & released before the fin de siecle, as there are a couple or more
references to Millennium.
Another character, "Bobby Da Kine" has a last name (Da Kine) that's a
Hawaiian term, I think its a term of endearment, a complimentary appellation
conferred upon someone with whom you are friendly with, who you hold in
favorable regard.
Hope I was of some help. I absolutely adore the album. Oh, glad to be back
on your mailing list--my comp crashed 2 years ago and I JUST NOW found how to
get back on this list. A few of you may remember that I once dropped a demo
song in Walter's mailbox (never did hear from him!)
RoyalAja at aol
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, March 26, 2005, 18:14:19 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Bit of a chronological correction to my previous post: as I understand it, Becker and Fagen are around 55.... my grandparents range anywhere between 5 to 10 years older than that. Which means my mother or her mother didn't have a child at 14 or anything weird that could have been implied from my chronological error.
Date: Sat, March 26, 2005, 18:11:11 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Angel: I'll be 18 in June. Bit of a shocker isn't it? Why would a mid-late teen become a diehard fan of music by artists as old as his grandparents? Seems kind of creepy when you think about it.
Date: Sat, March 26, 2005, 17:16:57 ET
Posted by: Scott,
Another take on Anne de Seiecle is that it is a kind of pun on French for "end of the century" or "New Age." Some think West of Hollywood is influenced by his breakup with Elinor.
There were a ton of Dandom Digests around the time of TAN. I remember like three digests a day with kick-ass reviews and awesome discussions for weeks. One was about the drums on the album and another was a big drag out on who is Dr Warren Krueger. How do we get to the Digest archives, Hoops?
Date: Sat, March 26, 2005, 16:03:19 ET
Posted by: angel,
Paul: The best place to see the initial reaction to 2VN is to go to Pat Beemer's site (Under the Banyan Trees with Steely Dan) and read the archives around January, February, and March of 2000. I wasn't posting at the time, but the fandom had their day and it is all preserved for posterity. The PBS taping was in January, the album came out on February 29th and of course the fandom had it by March.
There used to be a version of The Steely Damned playing 2nd Arrangement on the Le Bar Bat website, but since Le Bar Bat no longer exists, the link doesn't seem to work anymore.
Are you really just 16?
Date: Sat, March 26, 2005, 15:40:11 ET
Posted by: W1P, Tarzana
Thanks guys -- it was great to actually hang with you for a lot of the show. FYI we cut Fearless because of the acoustic gutiar problem and we played Hey You in the encore! Late Home Tonight is from Amused to Death!
Date: Sat, March 26, 2005, 13:52:45 ET
Posted by: Years go by, Calendar
If you don't know that Anne de Seicle is St Anne, the mother of the Virgin Mary, that could be a hard one.
Date: Sat, March 26, 2005, 13:47:14 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I've always felt West of Hollywood was the perfect end to that album. When I started listening to Steely Dan, EMG was already out anyway, but how did the general fandom feel about TvN? (other than the initial shock and "wow") Did everyone expect another album so soon, or at all?
Your right, the fact that Third World Man leaves the listener empty has enormous implications symbolically.
Offtopic, but anybody have any idea when Fagen's solo album is scheduled for release? Nothing specific, but like will it be this summer, or next year, or whatever. All I can find by Googling is that recording has been completed, I would assume that means a release soon to come. I don't exactly expect an answer, I probably know as much about it as anyone else here.
Date: Sat, March 26, 2005, 13:00:58 ET
Posted by: FACW, Hollywood, I Know Your Middlename
Paul: 2ndA is an amazing song. And that's not even the primo version. That's the WENDEL-Gadd version. The original (famously acidentally erased one night by a janitor or engineer depending on the story) featured Jeff Porcaro on drums (only a 15 sec snippet exists) using the same kind of groove he used on Miss Sun from the Boz Scaggs Hits! album ca. 1980. Also check out at Andy Metzger's site Kulee Baba, Can't Write Home About You, You Got the Bear outtakes from Gaucho.
That's a critical observation about TWM. It's supposed to leave us empty. The END of Steely Dan 1. Nothing left. Sounds like a dirge, doesn't it?...also signifies the emptiness at the core of LAS at the time. West of Hollywood is a sequel soulmate to TWM and the Gaucho - Broadway musical about LA
only thing I can add to Raj's wisdom is Keep your humor, health, wits as long as you can.
Date: Sat, March 26, 2005, 12:25:42 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,
W1P, thank you again for a great show, those guys are amazing. Paladino's is, well, shall I say earthy? So much in fact that I'm still washing my shoes. The band definitely brought the place some class!
G
Date: Sat, March 26, 2005, 12:21:55 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
In the Flesh
Empty Spaces/Young Lust
Money
Cymbaline
Fearless
On the Turning Away
Echoes
Have a Cigar
Late Home Tonight
What Shall We Do Now
Green is the Colour
One of My Turns
Time
Wish You Were Here
Comfortably Numb
Brain Damage/Eclipse
e: Run Like Hell
e: Brick II
Thanks W1P, the ensemble was awesome. The Pink crowd was in full force. The young guys playing bass and guitar sing just great, razor line and really fine. People just love guitar music...
Get out and see Dr. Wu tonight, 9 PM @ Paladino's.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 23:26:03 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ
I like both the pics and the new Ezra Titus installment. I thought Spencer Santenello (correct spelling) might have a photography website so I did a Google Web search, but it turned up only one site and it's just a simple credit of "photos by SS"....
Hanalei Massage & Rejuvenation Center
http://www.hanaleimassage.com/~MakeAppointment.htm
Wonder if Donald's rejuvenatin' himself.... :)
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 23:02:01 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I went and listened to "The Second Arrangement" again since I was discussing it anyway, and wow! what a great song. I wonder what would have happened to "Third World Man" if 2A hadn't been erased. Maybe they would have left both tracks in, but there ain't room for all eight songs on a vinyl LP. TWM is a great song and I love it, but it seems to leave me empty after listening to the rest of Gaucho. It fits pretty well, but I get this really awkward feeling after it ends the album.
Rajah, don't encourage me :) And I'll stay away from the drugs. Anyone from my generation will tell you that they would do ANYTHING their instructors tell them to get out of the damn anti-drug/sex/beer lectures they've been wasting their budget on for 12 years. Anyone except the kids who skip to snort in the bathroom.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 22:59:37 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Thanks, Daddy G. Will have to check these out.
Sincerely,
jim
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 22:49:35 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ
Actually "Unseen Rain" is a series of 10 quite beautiful pics on Kauai's North Shore. "Bullet Ants" is a story.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 22:32:30 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ
Oops. Didn't look close enough myself. Ezra Titus' Summer of the Bullet Ants is posted as well. Same link.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 22:24:47 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., I'm alive and feeling fine.
Enjoyed the comments on "11 Tracks" as well as the discussion of legalities concerning the demos.
Cruising around the web tonight and I see Countermoon #2 posted at Donald's site....
Unseen Rain: A North Shore Chronicle, by Spencer Santanello
http://www.donaldfagen.com/countermoon.html
Haven't read it yet myself, but thought I'd post the heads up first.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 22:00:21 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Paul - You are not abusing anything, it's refreshing to have someone around who's not a total smart-ass. You have plenty of time to become a cynical, sarcastic pervert like me when you get older. Waaay older, bro. And don't smoke pot or do drugs. Look what it did to me. There's like, a flipper growing out of my head where my hair used to be, OK?
Why SD do or don't do something is a mystery like the Holy Grail which, I suppose, is one of the reasons we find them so fascinating. With all the outtakes and stuff, they probably came from somebody on the "inside" and maybe D&W feel that was a betrayal cause they're super-finicky about what they put out there. (What an understatement) But you gotta remember, these guys dissappeared on us completely for like a decade. In no one's wildest dreams did we ever expect to hear from Steely Dan again. That's not an excuse but it is a mitigating factor.
Now I gotta go kick some biker-ass over to Paladino's...peace.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 21:53:51 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I didn't know there was a "story behind" the Movies demo... I suppose I just haven't been around as long. But I agree, in comparison with all the other demos and outtakes I've heard from any band (not just SD), that track is MUCH more complete than the typical demo. Of course, not everybody would be satisfied with a mono recording from a microphone sat on top of a piano while the singer's voice cracks at the end of every third line, but those are the type of demos I know and love...
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 21:16:42 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Paul. Great posts and discussion, couple of jerks aside. Glad you've been posting. I suspect like any dealer, AM has a rep. People probably send him stuff.
I think the bottom line with bonus oldies with SD is that they think they would have used them on the original albums if they thought the tracks were any good (in their opinion) and they figure everyone's got'em already. I've always wondered if the story about the demo of "Everyone's Gone To the Movies" was legit. Sounds really polished up for the box. Too polished. Oh well.
jim
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 20:57:23 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Where did Metzger get all those outtakes, anyway? It's not like there's a Steely Dan "anthology" or anything (but that would be super frikken cool). I've seen multiple references to something that almost looks like a released Gaucho outtakes album, does this actually exist? or am I making stuff up?
I'm probably abusing the board again. Sorry. This what happens when my friends leave and I have no one to talk to :P
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 19:46:30 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
Steely Dan owns their own intellectual property and since the unrealesed stuff has never been released they are not required to grant a mechanical license. Nevertheless, I feel they are doing their fans a diservice by not releasing the material on a "real" boxset (which would have a secondary benefit of allowinig other acts to record covers of these songs). It may be a lost cause, but I will continue to pray for the day when a real box set gets released with all the stuff out there Dallas, All Too Mobile, Second Arr, If You Got The Bear, etc.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 19:22:56 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Price hasn't toured with Foghat in a long time, so no his death won't affect the show (I don't believe). And we are going to have one wildass party at the Foghat blast in Antioch, beleive me. I have my fifteen foot high Robert Johnson blowup doll ready.
Few weeks back there was talk here of 'authentic' white boy blues players. Price was the real deal and anyone who rips Foghat has to argue with Willie Dixon. Unlike out and out ripoff aritsts like Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, who had to pay Dixon millions and millions of dollars in out of court settlements for ripping off his material on the first 3 Zep albums, Price was constantly and consistently ASKED by the greatest living bluesmen to play with them. They asked him, not the other way round.
Foghat's legend has grown 5000 times since Lonesome Dave died, a shame he never lived to see it.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 19:13:38 ET
Posted by: rollerskater, paris
Thanks to everyone with their "11 tracks" tidbits this past week, helping me get into this pesky oeuvre. On my first listen through I was drawn to the background party noise in "cringemaker." Reminded me of "Teahouse on the Tracks" and "Ruby Baby" with similar party backgrounds. Are there other examples in the Dan canon? Who's chatting? What's being said? There is clearly the impression of a good time going down in those three samples, am I, are we invited?
Also noticed that feverdreams.net is up again and was able to find musings upon the royal scam lyrics which had been troubling me. Great resource.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 19:12:45 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
Hypnos - yo Mama.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 19:08:17 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I never thought of this, but I might be able to request permission to use a recording from one of the cover/tribute bands who play the song. (the second part of Angel's post that included the SD contact page inspired this idea). It's only going to be in the background of the video as credits anyway. The song fits SO well with what my project, I wish I could find some way to use it...
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 19:01:35 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
80% of the legit responses I'm getting are "don't even bother". I'ld be wise to take the advice. It's a pity, though.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 19:00:08 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Gee Hypnos, how stimulating and convincing an argurment can you make?
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 18:31:17 ET
Posted by: hmmmm- I fibbed -back and this is it, sophomoric pranks and name calling
Ok...
name calling?
Junior High I can see it..But here?
and this time
HMMMMMMM disappears
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 18:23:40 ET
Posted by: Hypnos,
Rajah - You're right, you obviously don't know how SD feels about the stuff Andy puts up.
And Andy is either
a) an asshole
b) an idiot
c) he doesn't know either
and I'm pretty sure it isn't c)
Paul - Don't even bother
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 18:13:19 ET
Posted by: HMMMM AGAIN , ONE MORE TIME
Hoops,
On top of all that wouldn't they feel just a tad bit violated seeing as how most boots or things like the outtakes were stolen or mis-appropriated from employees and right under the collective noses of the SD?
hmmmm for the last time
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 18:06:57 ET
Posted by: hoops,
I hear you hmmmm....and thanks..just that it is such a grey area from my vantage. I have agonized over it and have been flamed hugely too (part of the reason some at other forums don't like me in fact). The first day I started the Blue, I got slammed on my conservative vantage in this.
Back when I was first doing what is today's dandom.com site I was also on a committee for copyright policy and web-based materials at work. As a result, I was so cautious, that I rejected having the site feature Joe Murtha's Steely Dan Reader program since it had all the lyrics which were copyrighted. So Joe distributed it elsewhere. I was sure wrong about that since SD *loves* Joe's SD Reader and ended up offering it themselves at sd.com!
At the same time, especially in terms of recordings, there are a lot of gray areas. Based on some feedback over the years, they seem especially bothered by stuff that is private demos they never intended for release; loathe it when people charge for boots. Have heard about times where people have internet radio stations where they have been asked to remove a boot they have included in the playlist.
And then, keeping in mind I never speak for SD and I am not a lawyer, there are probably gray scales of officially what they have to answer and then leeway unofficially. I remember when Scott Borton took over my SD Discography about ten years ago and he added boots to the list. Couple of years later, sd.com had a link to that site with the description, "includes a few naughty ones." So they did look away on a few, I guess. We also know there are those pre-1972 demos that Becker and Fagen loathe but they are legally somehow out there so I suspect they find it funny when someone gets them for free since they never make money on them when they are sold.
So it's very hazy. Another angle to consider, is it worth the hassle of having it.
I'm sure I made it that much more complicated but genuinely just trying to give perspective—no definitive answers.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 18:04:48 ET
Posted by: angel,
Paul: Have you thought of checking out this page. It might possibly be a place to start.
http://www.steelydan.com/contact.html
--
LWO: I am so with you. I can't go down to San Diego tonight to see The Damned, due to the fact that I have to wake up my kidlet at 3AM, to attend a competition. 3rd one in a row I am going to miss. I wonder if they will play the 2nd Arrangement tonight, just to add to my misery. :-)
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 18:04:20 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, leather and lace
Of course W1P...I can have three wishes, right? TSD and then Paladinos.
Found a blue pig like the pink one today while cleaning out a closet. I'll save it for Layla...
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 17:46:51 ET
Posted by: W1P, Pala Pala Pala DINOS
LWO, instead we're stuck in SoCal listening to "One of These Days"
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 17:43:00 ET
Posted by: hmmmmmm, @sarcasm.com
Hoops,
Your right.
But my post was with tongue firmly planted in cheek about the who's in who's not and persona non grata issue.
HMMMMMM
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 17:35:34 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I asked Metzger and am of course awaiting a response, but I do want to make sure I do what's legal, not just what I can get away with. In that case, though, I wonder who I'ld have to get permission from. The band themself? I doubt I could even get through to ask...
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 17:32:05 ET
Posted by: hoops,
"Hmmm"
I don't think anyone's keeping lists or who's in or out (I've met Andy a few times and seems like a cool guy), but Steve, Angel and Lord Whatever are pretty much right. Good advice to someone starting a web site on Steely Dan and hope Paul gets off on the right foot.
jim
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 17:32:01 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, drying off
Wow, I go out to clean the pool and everyone jumps in.
Thanks Raj for that passage. A great one and 'tis true.
So, does the death of Rod Price have an effect on the tour that PQ has a ticket to? Just wondering...
Ed, I don't get it.
Sure wish I could be in SoCal tonight to hear TSD. One of these days...
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 17:27:11 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
She's being held against her will in my hacienda is why. Course, the outstanding bench warrants for her arrest in the Tri-State area might have something to do with it. Plus there's the nearness of me to consider.
Why ask AM? Well, the tracks are all up there aren't they? Even the McPartland stuff and that record came out 10 days ago.
Seriously, I dunno about how SD feel about that really wonderful trove of stuff Andy puts up there but if they were really ballbusters about it, I'm certain they'd find a way to put the kabosh on it, dontcha think? Who's being damaged?
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 17:19:05 ET
Posted by: hmmmmm, maybe we are all
Steve,
Are we keeping track of who's in and who's out and have such connections that you would know who's persona non grata?
wow
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 17:08:10 ET
Posted by: ygk, ev
Gretchen: "Manhattan is a great city with a heart, substance, character, and culture. I agree with your sentiments. There's no better place." This coming from someone who has transplanted yourselves?
huh?
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 17:01:10 ET
Posted by: Lord Tariq,
True Steve. Besides, what makes anyone think Andy Metzger is the person to ask?
I'd say what Angel said.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 16:49:43 ET
Posted by: Steve,
You can ask Metzger but consider that he is sorta persona non grata with Steely Dan. He'll tell you what you are likely to get away with, not what's the right thing to do.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 16:45:33 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Hey, thanks everybody, for your comments on my little legal question. Raj, I probably will ask Metzger. Thanks again!
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 16:19:52 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
This fellow is wise enough to play the fool,
And to do that well craves a kind of wit:
He must observe their mood on whom he jests,
The quality of persons, and the time,
Not, like the haggard, check at every feather
That comes before his eye. This is a practice
As full of labour as a wise man's art;
For folly that he wisely shows is fit;
But wise men folly-fall'n, quite taint their wit.
Twelfth Night, Act III, Scene 1
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 16:16:46 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, LA
YGK: Manhattan is a great city with a heart, substance, character, and culture. I agree with your sentiments. There's no better place.
G
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 16:01:48 ET
Posted by: Bob,
>From Yahoo news.
LOS ANGELES (AFP) - A museum chronicling the career of
late soul legend Ray Charles will be opened in his
former recording studio in Los Angeles, his publicist
announced.
The museum will house "archive materials from
recordings, to awards, to ephemera, to wardrobe," said
publicist Jerry Digney, who worked for the man dubbed
the "Genius of Soul" for years.
An old tour bus used by Charles and his entourage on
the road will also be part of the permanent display,
said Digney, adding that the museum, which will
include an educational center, was expected to open in
late 2007.
The museum will be set up at the Ray Charles Studio
and offices, where the singer, who died in June at the
age of 73, worked for years and where he recorded much
of his final album "Genius Love Company," Digney said.
The city of Los Angeles declared the studio a historic
landmark in May, just before the legend's death of
liver disease.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 15:50:03 ET
Posted by: ed b, what a fool believes ?
Hi,
here ya go...
WHO IS THE FOOL
Two men were crossing a narrow stair way. Both of them could not walk through at the same time.one had to make way for the other.
For some moments they starred at each other,neither wishing to give way.Then the first man said "Get out of the way and let me pass ".
"I was about to sy the same thing" replied the other.
"Non sense! ,I never make way for a fool " replied the man arrogantly.
"I do!"ansewered the second man ,moving aside.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 15:36:01 ET
Posted by: Girlfriend, hearing a huge sucking sound
Yes, hoops, it does beg the question...who is the fool?
(cue for Rajah here to entertain and enlighten us with a relevant quote from the Bard or the Greek classics.)
That's why I love this place. Entertaining and educational in one click.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 15:18:07 ET
Posted by: angel,
Paul: I am NOT an Attorney, nor do I play one on TV and now that we have that out of the way....
My honest opinion is that the answer is no. Steely Dan takes their intellectual property very seriously, from what I have seen happen in the past.
You just don't want to go there.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 15:15:36 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
Damn! RIP Mr. Price, get up there and jam with Lonsome Dave! I'm glad that I posted all the good stuff about Foghat recently! I loved that band!
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 15:13:14 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Paul;
In the past I've seen on more than a few occassions where SD's people have politely but very firmly requested that such items be removed down. But, that's just my past experience.
BTW: The general policy here is that seems to work is that, talking about songs like the "Second Arrangement" is OK, because, hey, they exist, but their distribution should in no way be promoted (ie. where to get, no requests for boots, etc.) Sorta like the idiot who screams "doses" in front of the cops at the Grateful Dead shows I would attend.
Girlfriend:
I hear you. The corrollary question for me is "Am I fool to respond to those who argue one half is better?" I get really sucked in, especially when a publication has a photo of just Donald with a caption of "Steely Dan" or when people write or ask questions as if WB is a sidekick, or like in the next Digest, as a followup pointed out there, "Why ask what Donald means by a certain SD lyric?" Of course, DF is the principle vocalist but it's not the whole picture and there is so much interms of interinspiration. Back around the time 11TOW came out, WB gave a great answer:
Q- What do you and Fagen each bring to the table when collaborating on songs?
A- I bring the food and Donald sets the table.
In fact, a lot of Q & As were compiled by "Metal Leg" at the time of 11TOW (late 1994) and then reprinted in the Digest about 3 years ago:
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Q & A with Walter Becker
The following Q&A with Walter Becker was compiled from various
newspaper interviews which appeared across our fine country in
September and August 1994 [in support of the release of "11 Tracks of
Whack"].
Q- Why did you decide to do a solo album after all these years?
A- I know it's a bit odd in some ways. I never felt any particular
passion for doing it all the years we were doing Steely Dan records.
That was a satisfactory outlet for me. I got to write and be
co-author of these things without having any onerous duties like
singing. It was only recently that I had the idea it would be a good
time to do something like this. Producing Donald's "Kamakiriad"
project actually put me back in that Steely Dan frame of mind. It was
a bridge to connect up with my own experiences in the studio as an
artist.
Q- What prompted you to write songs with such dire titles as "Down in
the Bottom" or "Book of Liars" and lyrics such as "What ever happened
to my college belle" When did she turn into the wife from hell?"
A- They seem like such cheery lyrics to me.
Q- Why did you put 12 songs on the record and call it "11 Tracks of Whack?"
A- We noticed that, too.
Q- Was that a dig at Sting for putting I I songs on his last album
and calling it "10 Summoner's Tales?"
A- How was I supposed to know about Sting? They keep his records in a
part of the store I don't like to go into.
Q- Did you try to make "11TOW" sound like Steely Dan?
A- It wasn't either a goal or something to avoid. I figured
inevitably there would be things reminiscent of Steely Dan and things
that would be a contrast.
Q- What approach did you take in writing your new songs?
A- Most of the tracks are computer-based sequences. When we were
making Steely Dan albums, that technology didn't really exist. In the
old days, writing a song was sitting around the piano and plunkin'
along. We would work separately, too, but when the actual songs were
being written, it was the two of us back together, in the Tin Pan
Alley scenario, flinging ideas back and forth. And nowadays, a groove
or a track can be used as a sort of blueprint. I did almost all the
writing myself. Writing without Donald, it would not be to my
advantage to try and develop these really elaborate harmonic
structures. I wanted the most direct, strongest and simplistic things
I could write.
Q- What do you and Fagen each bring to the table when collaborating on songs?
A- I bring the food and Donald sets the table.
Q- How did you decide to take a whack at vocals this time around?
A- At first it was going to be instrumental. But I decided I needed
to have some lyrics to be able to create the kind of interesting
effects that I thought I could produce. It's hard with instrumental
music to have the same kind of impact. At that point I was locked
into singing. It was an exercise in self-reliance, and being able to
work by myself and not having to rely on other people and their
schedules. When Donald and I were first writing songs, we used to
share leads. But when we got into the studio, I had trouble singing
in tune. I have a low range; plus, I was smoking very heavily. At
some point, you have to decide whether you're going to sing or smoke.
I decided I was going to smoke. I didn't really have to invent a
singing style out of whole cloth. Singing in concert last year taught
me a lot, especially about my limitations as a singer. I was kind of
lucky when it came time to sing on "11 Tracks" that, through the
passage of time and from singing on tour last summer, my voice had
kind of aged, it had a little bit of a sheen. It was kind of a ruin
by the time I got around to singing these songs; it had a kind of
falling-apart quality that is maybe interesting.
Q- Tell us about "Down in the Bottom."
A- "Down in the Bottom" kind of started off as my feeling about a
certain guy that I know. He was having this relationship with a woman
and he withheld some essential part of himself in a really obnoxious
way. That song started from that and I just elaborated various other
characters out of it.
Q- Tell us about "Surf and/or Die."
A- That was a song I wrote for a friend of ours in Hawaii who was
killed in a hang-gliding accident. I had written this little poem
about the immediate aftermath of something like that. How you're
caught up in a mixture of the mundane things that need to be attended
to; and this vast, yawning gap in your life where this person used to
be. When this actually happened, they had a little service for this
guy, where the Tibetan lama who lives in the town I live in, came and
made a little speech…We later recorded with four lamas. We played the
thing back and the pitch was right in tune with the track and it had
a rhythmic relationship with the track as well. Like I say, I guess
the evidence is there that I want to continue to write unusual songs.
Q- "Little Kawai" isn't something most people would expect from Walter Becker.
A- I liked the fact that the "Little Kawai" song, that's the last
song in the world we would have written for or included on a Steely
Dan album. I thought that putting it on would be a sort of test of
courage. Besides, my wife and my kid (son Kawai) had heard it, and I
felt I would gain brownie points from here to eternity if I put the
thing on there.
Q- So what are you going to do after the tour?
A- I've been kind of stalling my wife on a couple of things. You
know, that cabinet in the kitchen, the door is hanging by its last
screw and the lawn is in kind of bad shape.
Q- Will there ever be a new Steely Dan studio album?
A- It's a thinking in our eyes at this point-and a slight additional
bounce in our step. Of course you never know. It wouldn't be the
first time we'd talked about something and not done it.
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 15:12:47 ET
Posted by: ygk, EV
Raj: Not sure about the Candy Store - maybe on 10th - but 9th is P.S. 122 - the 'premiere' avant-garde performance space which was converted from an old school. Now is also houses a day-care center.
I live on 9th between B&C. Avenue C is the latest gent center here. A recent NY Times article - last Sunday? - spoke of the 'traffic' moving to Avenue D. Saturday nights Avenue C is overcrowded with NYU students in bars and clubs - some very nice restaurants as well, underground hip-hop clubs. Haven't bought anything around there in quite some time (my sumo wrestling gig is quite demanding). But of course, it's all about delivery, delivery, delivery. I do know a story about a guy who tried to unload 4 lbs to a stranger through an apartment on B. He thought he was getting acid in exchange. He got: frustration, anger and pain; pain from pounding his fist on his head as part of the learning experience.
Glad you like the Manhattan stories and am also glad we kicked your ass out. It's really for those who can take it.
;-0
ygk
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 15:08:02 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, shocked.......
Just saw this news today:
The Associated Press
Updated: 12:57 p.m. ET March 24, 2005WILTON, New Hampshire - Guitarist Rod Price, founding member of the blues boogie band Foghat, died Tuesday after falling down a stairway at his home, a family friend said. He was 57.
advertisement
The London native's solos drove Foghat to three platinum and eight gold records during the band's quarter-century career. After many years of touring he settled in Wilton in 1994.
Many in town knew Price as a loving father who never missed his son's baseball, soccer or basketball games. Fewer people knew of Price's musical background.
Price had played with Champion Jack Dupree, Eddie Kirkland, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Willie Dixon and Honey Boy Edwards.
In recent years, Price concentrated on his blues projects, cutting several CDs and giving private guitar lessons at his home.
Very sad, indeed. RIP.
G
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 14:55:03 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Good question, Paul, Andy Metzger would be the guy to ask but just because a work is not published/released does not mean it has not been and is not subject to copyright protection. This town is lousy with stacks of movie scripts a mile high which have been both copyrighted as well as registered with the Writers' Guild. ASCAP might be able to help as well.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 14:52:56 ET
Posted by: Girlfriend, ask anything
Paulygon, someone here surely can answer your question. Such an erudite group...
Stevee, honey, that was just a general life observation and not directed at anyone in particular.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 14:24:09 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but anybody know how the copyrights work on unreleased dan outtakes? For example, I wanted to put a 1:00 clip from "The Second Arrangement" Gaucho outtake in short film on my website, could I get sued? If this was a fully published song, I'ld just go through the record company to ask permission (which they'ld undoubtedly make me pay for), but I have no idea how the reproduction rights on unrealesed tracks work, or hell, who I'ld have to ask shy of Becker/Fagen.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 14:13:50 ET
Posted by: ed, ed
Yes...11TOW IS walter ...
where have you seen sd lyrics like this
And all the jiveasses and the true believers
The bullshit givers and receivers
Here today tomorrow gone
To the triage tent in the great beyond
Wherein the angel tangoes with the infidel
Walter's 11tow is like the proverbial "open sore"
Yes I agree..WB put out an update to 11TOW
ED B
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 14:01:08 ET
Posted by: Peter, NYC
Plenty of the guys that played on 11TOW play the 55 Bar all the time, Adam Rogers, Ben Perowsky, Nima Ephron. The sound of 11TOW is clearly influenced by the raw acid jazz sound these guys had when Becker was producing their albums in the early 90s.
Got the Foghat LA ticket today.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 14:00:50 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
I never said I knew how to get back to town from Connecticut, honey. But we did have a nice cocktail at that Italian joint so it wasn't a total loss. How we manged to cross the Hudson twice and end up in town is still a little cloudy...
Paul - your local used CD/vinyl/cut-out record store is your best bet.
Jeez, ygk, you reminded me of the funniest thing, there was a place on either 9th or 10th between 1st and A we called, "The Candy Store." You went down an alley around back to a scary side door which had a mail slot in it. You put in your $20.00 and 5 minutes later your bag came out wrapped in a page of the Daily News. But I'll never forget the weekend a chum of mine went over and there was a cardboard sign up which read, "2 for 1 Sale." Out came two bags of absolute shake, sticks, seeds and powder. Oh it was bad. We had to eventually sift it out and bake it all in a Betty Crocker coffee cake.
It was anti-dope.
Tales of Manhattan...how I miss it...NOT!!!!!!
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 13:56:08 ET
Posted by: Bill Walton, San Diego
Hey everybody, tonight is a terrific night to be in San Diego! not only do you have the Steely Damned at Humphreys but you also have Cubensis at Winston's! So "throw down" some mushrooms and "joint" me tonight in America's finest city. Be quick, don't hurry!
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 13:52:22 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan,
Who you callin' fool, fool ?
Maybe you mistook my meaning when I referred to whom might be the lesser of the two in Steely Dan. Some people (not me) have mentioned from time to time that they think that Fagen was the stronger half of the collaboration. I was not voicing my own opinion. If you read the entire post about 11TOW you might have noticed that it was in praise of Becker solo effort. A world become one, of salads and sun ...
W1P - I caught that. I know. It's all good.
Rajah (and Gretchen) - as usual ... you guys are scaring me. It's OK. Scary can be good. That's right. Good and scared.
I hope that The Steely Damned have a great night tonight in San Diego. I can't get away to get down there either.
SteveeDan
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 13:27:39 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I've never heard 11TOW, I really need to pick up a copy. It's annoying that absolutely no digital music stores (like iTunes/Napster/etc) sell this album, I guess Becker wasn't as popular as a solo artist as Fagen. I absolutely love "Book of Liars" from Alive in America.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 13:18:34 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, Moving Day
O my God..Gretchen..girl.. is that you? How's the reno going?
Yeah, Raj knows NY...that's why I got a quick tour of...what little hamlet of NJ was that, Raj? The brothers were cool though..gave us good smack, sent us on our way.
And in NY speak, that's HOW-ston Street. (I just work in the 4th largest city, what do I know.)
First time I heard 11 TOW I thought I was gonna die. I kept switching tracks...is that ALL there is? But Stevee is right. It creeps into your psyche and you find yourself hanging on little phrases.
Hi ygk. Good to hear from you, too.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 12:51:49 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
I think the lyric is "6th & D." Again, with his Avenue D. If there was an Avenue E, it would be either in the parking lot of Con Ed, those godforsaken baskerball courts and baseball diamonds that line the FDR or maybe Baruch(?) Street below Houston just north of the Williamsburg Bridge. I never went east of Avenue B, that was scary enough, thank you. BTW, have they gentrified Alphabet City yet or is just like I remember it? There's a lot of Manhattan that wasn't originally there as witnessed by the planks of the old docks sometimes found in sub-basements of buildings on East End Avenue when the old boilers start to blow up around January.
Here's the lyrics to the 11 TOW outtakes, thanks as always to Andy:
http://www.andymetzger.com/album/11towout.htm#ghost
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 12:02:37 ET
Posted by: Girlfriend, top 3
Perhaps...
its Ghost of Hypnos Past.
Only a fool would speculate on who is the greater half of any collaboration.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 12:02:35 ET
Posted by: ygk, East Village
Rajah: FYI - if you're standing on the corner of 6th and E, you are effectively on the FDR Drive, or in the East River. Circa 1906 or so, you would definitely be in the East River as Manhattan ended 'round what is now Avenue A. Alphabet City was build on landfill in the early 1900s, which explains the "smell" given certain weather conditions, winds, etc. In 1992, the January Noreaster flooded much of the basements in the East Village, due to the soil consisting of primarily silt.
Purchasing substances in the late 80s in Alphabet City could be easily accomplished on 7th between C&D where you could get a dime bag for a nickel. 9th Street and 1st Ave was also a hot corner....
Don't try this at home no mo.......
ygk
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 11:32:17 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
"Sub-continental" has so many deliciously ribald connotations but I do prefer it to what She Who Must Be Obeyed usually calls me when in a fit of peak, "crazy Guinea bastard," precious petal that she is...
Stevee mentioned the 11 TOW outtake, "Ghost of Hipness Past," and if you haven't heard it you gonna miss out cause it's a very fine ditty about 6+ minutes long, accented by a very strange keyboard synth-thingy. It reminds me of a dissonant version of the organ intro to Santana's cover of Tito's "Oye Como Va?" Or something like Bill Whithers, "Use Me," less funky, without the fuzz-tone stuff. I hear Eric Dolphy in there as well. I have had great difficulty with Walter's solo record, my own limitations probably, I don't know what I expected. But this song could be worked up as a Steely Dan tune, and a really good one. The topic is two losers roaming Alphabet City in Manhattan, 6th & "E" at one point, and if you know that part of the City, well, the deeper you get into the "alphabet" streets, the better your chances of getting into some serious trouble. They're drinking turpentine from a bag, he's setting out some dog food for his buddy and he's "ripped to the tits on Romilar." When I lived on St. Mark's between 1st and A twenty years ago, I'd score my dime bags of weed in Tompkins Square Park between A & B and brother, that was a whole different world over there, like stepping through the looking glass and crossing over into Hell. This song captures that feeling without going through the potential gnarly downside of actually being there. Walter has such clear memories of the seamy side of places, I suppose the ghosts help him to remember.
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 01:14:24 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, Air America
Pink, that's a good one! That geezer's (Rajah) cruisin for a bruisin!!
Hey, how come those infamous words don't get included in your version of "Money?" If you can make those great pig noises, well, then, there's no excuse.......
G
Date: Fri, March 25, 2005, 00:46:41 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
Steeve. You are right that we're playing a little more than usual. But we are simutaneously avoiding saturation. The next three shows can fairly be characterized as different markets The Valley/Santa Barbara/Long Beach. We do, technically, return to pretty close to the Valley on 5/7 -- but that is 6 weeks after a visit to Scumadinos so those shows have little impace on one another. Similary, the Galaxy is fairly close to Long Beach but there's a five week spread. I think we've spaced them appropriately. Can you believe that Rajah convinced Gretchen that it was HER idea to go to Paladino's? He's a sharp one that sub-continental
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 23:46:20 ET
Posted by: bwaySteve, Sonar 4
Stevee,
Loved your essay on 11TOW . I feel exactly the same way. It's a window into a creatve process of a work in progress.It's about a guy sittin' behind the computer late at night in his underwear layin' shit down.There's a rawness and a primal energy to it that is very free.Real anti-discipline. Refreshing.
I hope the guy squeezes out another one in the near future.
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 18:48:25 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Thanks for the links, Ed and Rajah. I wouldn't have caught those. Especially interesting about the San Diego essay.
Be well you guys.
jim
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 18:34:27 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, Lounging Around
That little ode to Steely Dan written by Joan was inspired if a little misdirected. Steven Becker ? Oh well. I liked the woodblock painting she did though.
Southy -- CPR is absolutly a great band. The comparisons to Steely Dan have been circlating since their beginning. I have one of their CDs called Just Like Gravity, which came out in 2001. I love it. Some of the songs have that "killer groove" thing going hard, other songs have that "wide open spaces" feel in them. It's a great driving CD. NYBill is a huge CPR fan.
W1P - The band's schedule is quite full it appears. What ever happened to your belief in NOT over saturating the clubs with band appearances ? Truth be told, I am glad that you have abandoned that folly. Which One's Pink? should be seen, and seen frequently. That's the long and short of the whole deal.
11 Tracks Of Whack is both a great CD and a great flying disk. In other words, it satisfies everyone on one level or another. I know, I know, this sounds like an insult to Walter's CD, but I'm just kidding. I kid the Becker. I have been listening to 11TOW a lot lately. I find that it provides a perfect soundtrack to my overworked, underpaid, and sleep-deprived (and depraved) state that my mind is in these days.
Here's what I've always thought about 11TOW:
Some of the songs start out with what might seem like uneventful grooves, but then, all of a sudden (as Dr. Mu pointed out), there are a quick series of chords that just bend your ear (and your mind) and then the song transitions into some amazing groove. Case in point would be Lucky Henry. The song starts off with this very quirky groove with (dare I say it) obnoxious sounding keyboards and guitars. Then, all of a sudden, the song drops into this really warm and just-under-the-surface groove for the chorus that is really great.
I find myself jumping all over the CD, scanning for my favorite parts. There is a track that was not included in the official CD release called "The Ghost Of Hipness Past" which also does this "amazing transition" into an even better groove. There is no doubt about the fact that Mr. Becker is one hip mutherf%#ker.
What he chose to ignore in the "slick and sweet" department of sound recording mastery that is one of the trademarks of Steely dan is made up for with his immediately accessable raw soul and intellect.
I consider this CD more as a workshop - or a work project which gives the listener an ample glimpse into the talent and point of view of the could-no-longer-be-viewed-as the lesser half of Steely Dan.
A great deal of the music on 11TOW has creeped into my DNA just like the rest of the Dan/Fagen ouvre has done.
It just creeps and creeps.
Stevee(what a creep)Dan
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 17:40:25 ET
Posted by: Soylent Green, BBQ
Hey Raj, they don't call it the "Soylent Green" BBQ for nuthin
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 17:16:14 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
Ed- now THAT was good, she one funny lady.
PQ - Never knew Macdonald also wrote The Drowning Pool, he's a definite must check-out.
W1P - Thanks for the coupons, the savings will help defray the cost of the bail bondsman inevitably necessary after attending a show at Paladino's. Now as for the BBQ between shows - (*?%#!, the mind boggles), I hear a rumor they're running the cattle drive right through the parking lot and we pick off the straggler. Yeeehaww.
I'll bring my old school branding iron.
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 16:06:33 ET
Posted by: ed, @rainy san diego
Hi,
I found this out there somewhere
http://www.sdfahrenheit.com/2003-06-25/7%20STEELY%20DAN.htm
ed
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 16:02:13 ET
Posted by: Cover Man Dan, Your Pal in everything Adinos
How about If You Got the Bear instead?
I might even SEE you guys this time!
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 15:31:45 ET
Posted by: Raj Not Raj, Get Your Motor Runnin Biker Man
Raj, you'd better be worried about what's under that coat instead of the coat itself ;-)
Are you guys on our e-mail list? If not, copy this and paste it in an e-mail template and print out two copies to bring with you for that whopping $2 discount (per admission!)!
Just a reminder that this Friday, March 25th, Which Ones Pink? will be performing at Paladino's, in Tarzana (San Fernando Valley). We’re planning a 2+ hour set for Friday, which will include several songs that we’ve never played before, as well as plenty of the classics! We'll be starting around 10:00 p.m., and play until it’s time to go home!! The Paladino’s show will be a great night of classic rock, starting at 8:30 with Yesterday's Child and their tribute to the classic songs from the 60s and 70s. We strongly recommend that you arrive early, as we have had capacity issues at Paladino’s in the past! And please remember that Paladino’s is a 21+ venue!
BRING A PRINT-OUT OF THIS E-MAIL AND RECEIVE A $2.00 DISCOUNT AT THE DOOR (MAKE SURE EVERYONE IN YOUR PARTY HAS A COPY); ALSO
PALADINO’S WILL BE HOSTING A FREE TRI-TIP BARBECUE BETWEEN BANDS ON THE NIGHT OF THE SHOW. Paladino’s is located at 6101 Reseda Blvd., in Tarzana, CA, approximately 1 mile north of the Reseda Blvd. exit on the 101 Freeway, and there is plenty of free parking around Paladino’s. Hope to see you all there!
Upcoming Which One's Pink? shows:
(it is highly recommended that, when possible, you buy advance tickets)
04/09/05; Soho, Santa Barbara; Showtime 10:00 p.m. – no opening band;
04/16/05; The Vault350, Long Beach – Wish You Were Here show; 10:00 p.m.;
Opening band – BonFire- tribute to AC/DC 9:00 p.m.;
05/07/05 The Canyon Club, Agoura; Dark Side of the Moon show; 8:45;
no opening band;
05/21/05 The Galaxy Theatre, Santa Ana; 10:00 p.m.;
Opening band – Peace Frog (9:00) tribute to The Doors
07/30/05 Mock Fest
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 15:15:04 ET
Posted by: Paul,
"Oh by the way, which one's Pink?" - Have a Cigar
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 14:57:25 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
OK then, I won't ask which of your guys is Pink. Crap, I just did.
Check this out, Donald laid the vocals down at Black Bamboo in Hawaii, Hutch posted this :
http://allanthomas.com/html/modules/news/
BTW, Pink-a-Doodle, I hear that *green* is the new *pink* this season. The Spousal Unit demands we attend your show tomorrow night at Paladino's Pristine Palace since we'll be out of town for the Dr. Wu boys Saturday. She says she doesn't wanna miss out on the "ambiance" that Paladino's affords. (I'll get my wallet-on-a-chain ready) I think she just wants to see you in your raincoat again and, frankly, it's very upsetting. Not that I prefer the music of Steely Dan to Pink Floyd (oh... I'm a lyin skunk) but do you think maybe your very fine ensemble might sneak in a cover of Green Earrings...or maybe Green Flower Street???
Never hurts to ask,
Baba Quiet Desparation Rajah
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 14:31:47 ET
Posted by: Peter, NYC
As a college English major in the 1960s it is almost a certainty that Fagen was aware of Ross Macdonald for 2 reasons - first, he had surpassed Chandler and Hammett as a writer of detective fiction but, more importantly, he had lifted these kinds of stories out of the realm of hardboiled entertainment and into the dimension of literature. This was without question a hot topic in Departments of Literature at colleges everywhere in the 60s.
The gnarled Oedipal labyrinths, all set in LA, of Macdonald's stories certainly resound through alot of Steely Dan lyrics, whether consciously on the part of Becker and Fagen or not.
The guitar album of the year is out - Ha! by Oz Noy. A must!!!
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 14:20:23 ET
Posted by: Paladino's Man, Encino errr Tarzana
This was posted by Neil from the Dan Collective on my Pink Floyd tribute bands and covers forum and I just had to share:
"On a lighter note, and with a nod to W1P, some years ago I was invloved in a Stelly Dan tribute act called The Danny Steel Orchestra (13 piece - AAARRRGGGHH!!) and we were doing a gig in London and were approached by a journalist from the New Statesman who had been sent by his magazine to do a review of our show. His opening question - and I SWEAR this is true - was "So, which one is Danny then?" LOL Not a dedicated fan then? "
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 11:49:31 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Howard as usual you nailed it. I found "wine dark sea," in 2 of 4 versions of Homer. The other two were literal translations which came out more like, "water dark as wine." Virgil, Yeats and Coleridge. Walter is in nice company there.
PJ if you need a take or two on Nightfly feel free to email or just toss it out here. I guess a fairly solid treatise could be sketched around (amongst many others) it and Joyce's, Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. Nightfly is a coming of age opus, there's probably dozens of major works in the Western canon of which it could be considered derivative. I'd like to get a hold of that Macdonald guy's book myself.
Goodbye Look and Walk Between Raindrops are quintessential Fagen: lovely and uplifting melodies, light and airy as all get-out, no bridge in either, unless you consider the Cuban Breeze line a kind of elided bridge, narratives that read like a novel or short story. Aristotelian plot movement, lots of imagery and well-defined characters, nicely sketched. All in about 3 minutes. Just friggin brilliant, that's all.
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 07:41:31 ET
Posted by: Howard,
"Wine dark sea".
To go back to the original author of this phrase, you actually have to go back a few thousand years. It comes from Homer's Iliad and Odyssey. All the other sources mentioned so far were just reusing the phrase a few hundred or thousand years later...
Howard
Date: Thurs, March 24, 2005, 07:16:35 ET
Posted by: Gina, Nuances Mountain
http://www.writingaffairs.com/mizar5net/index.php?cat=2
Congratulations with the Dandom Digest anniversary. Although usually anything remotely linked to serendipity, synchronicity and other cosmical magic mumbo jumbo in the Steely Dan universe is dressed in Yellow Fever, this time around there's a Blue connection.
I have John Beasley's CD for quite a while now and listened to it a couple of times. It's not a CD to listen to when in a hurry, or when you're hungry for instant gratification before the next task of a day shouts out to ya.
This past week i've been thinking about John's Nuances and how to put in words what i feel when listening to it, planning to write it 'somewhere' this week whenever the surf was up. And i was amazed to see the Dandom Digest also devotes time&space to this particular CD, so what better timing, right?!
A double vision or double exposure for a musician/pianist with an energy that is so vibrant and ready to 'explode', we can only look forward to future projects that enable him to fully show his talent, creativity and skills ...
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 21:49:54 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Hey Raj, Thanks!
Actually, only the Digest is 12 years old; the blue is just shy of four years.
Back to the Dan and thank you!
jim
P.S Thanks ED!
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 21:21:57 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
We interrupt this oncoming pitched battle with this news:
HAPPY 12TH BLUEBOOK!!!
Let the laurel wreaths rain, rein, and reign down on you, Mr. Hoopster-Maximus. Optimus Ascolatur.
I'm working on The 12 Years of Hoopsmas as we speak.
Thanks and congratulations, Dan Jedi.
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 20:07:41 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Today marks the twelfth anniversary of the Dandom Digest (and also, I think, twelve years—give or take a day—since tickets for the 1993 show at Poplar Creek outside of Chicago went on sale). Hard to believe that what is today's Dandom Digest used to come out seven-days-per-week for the first two or three years. This time the latest Dandom Digest covers March 19-23, 2005, plus a few items of fun from earlier years.
If you are a subscriber, you should see it in your email box within the next 12 hours. If you don't receive it, please email me. Again, the main reason I am in the habit of announcing this here is because some people have been having problems with delivery of the Dandom Digest, usually because of spam filters, firewalls, etc.
The following are the subjects of this Anniversary edition of the Dandom Digest:
— Mindy Jostyn has Passed Away
— Walter: "Pretzel Logic" Surround Done, more
— Very Positive Review of Steely Dan Jazz Session in Washington Post
— Godwacker Musings
— News From Keith Carlock
— Early Praises for Beasley's "Nuances"
— TWELFTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE DANDOM DIGEST
— — — Looking Back...A Few Memorable Excerpts
— — — - 1993: Detroit Review (U Got To Shake It Baby, U Got 2 Shake It)
— — — - 1993: "Steely Dan Kids"
— — — - 1993: Steely Dan Dream Play List
— — — - 1994: DREAM PLAY IN THREE SCENES
— — — - 1995: ROSELAND REPORT: Concept #2
— — — - 2000: ANOTHER MEDIUM: Letterman interviews Steely Dan
If you are not currently a subscriber but would like to receive the free Dandom Digest email newsletter (definitely not to be confused with the glorious Official steelydan.com or Official donaldfagen.com newsletters/mail lists), please email me or see http://www.dandom.com/dandomdigest
jim
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 20:01:19 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Rest assured dot-guy, there are only three or four original ideas floating around out there. Sheer force of cosmic consciousness compel us to share them.
What's with the tude, dude?
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 19:44:11 ET
Posted by: Scholar, Library
The depiction of LA as the worst moral hellhole sewer on Earth is copped right out of Ross Macdonald's novels. It is not an accident. Macdonald was at the height of his popularity exactly when Steely Dan was at the height of theirs. And where do we think the phrase "down home family romance " comes from????
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 19:27:31 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
"Wine-dark sea" goes back to Virgil's Aeneid. Subsequently, it was used by one of the Romantic poets, I believe Coleridge or Wordsworth. Please keep in mind that even the great Bard himself lifted passages and whole plotlines freely from Boccaccio, Ovid and Dante as well as the Greeks. And I don't mean Yanni. As far as book, song and movie titles, they are not subject to copyright, anyone could have entitled their movie "Titanic" the very same year that huge monstrosity was released a few years ago. Many many novels, plays, short stories, record and movie titles have been lifted from the annals of ancient, medieval, renaissance and modern poetry and prose.
Course, you have to be aware of them first which should say something for those who co-opt.
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 19:04:05 ET
Posted by: Paul, at the Strange Meadow
Just picked up Brubeck's "Time Out" album... wowee wow wow wow! No lyrics to decrypt, though :)
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 16:48:36 ET
Posted by: angel,
Scroll down to March 21st and read the post from Oleander regarding the status of Fever Dreams. Her email address included with that post.
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 16:20:54 ET
Posted by: Scholar, Library
Here's a mammoth clue for you PJ - Donald Fagen copped the title of a novel by Ross MacDonald, The Goodbye Look, for a song on NF. Dark noir allusions to Ross Macdonald's novels appear in many SD lyrics. (Just as Walter Becker copped the title of a novel by Patrick O'Brien, The Wine Dark Sea). Good luck with your paper.
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 15:57:27 ET
Posted by: PJ, SUNY Plattsburgh
Hello...can someone please help me out?
I am attempting to do a rhetorical criticism using Donald Fagen's "The Nightfly" as my artifact. I am doing a metaphorical criticism and when I chose this work I was hoping to get some different insights on the lyrics from the "Fever Dreams" site. Unfortunately, I find that this site is not available anymore! It is too late to change my topic...and I really want to read some other peoples perspectives on Donald Fagen's lyrics. I remember "Fever Dreams" to be a real treasure trove of people's thoughts and interpretations of the lyrics. Does anyone have any saved pages from this site, or know of any alternative sites that provide the same content? My deadline nears and I am really stuck. I hope someone can help me! Thanks....PJ
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 14:36:31 ET
Posted by: Seth,
South- I love Pevar! About 10 years ago (before Pevar made it big) I saw a band at Le Bar Bat in NYC that had Drew Zing and Jeff Pevar both playing gutiar. Holy shit, it was amazing! Both Drew and Jeff were feeding off each other. I wish I had a tape of that show. Since then I've seen Jeff with Marc Cohn, CPR and Phil Lesh. Great player, nice guy.
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 14:25:02 ET
Posted by: Seth,
Q- No offense but anyone that thought that was DF in that New Frontier video should have their eyes checked. It looks nothing like him.
Rajah- Rick Moranis was in the Tomorrow Girls video, not the NF video
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 14:23:16 ET
Posted by: fife, raining buckets in baltimore
I just thought I would jump into the 11TOW discussion. I had not listened to it in awhile so I put it on this dreary morning and as usual it blew me away. I love Walter's style and singing on this CD, it's unique and addictive! I also think that of all the Dan material, solo and group this is probably the most open emotionally. Walter lets you in just a bit, his struggle with addiction, the loss of a good friend, a marriage going sour, and the love of his son. Wow thats quite a bit really! I would love it if he would do another. What do you say Walter, if Donald is doing it, you can too!!
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 13:03:11 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
I thought it was Rick Moranis in TNF video, the guy from Ghostbusters...
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 12:54:08 ET
Posted by: Q, TPA
Okay, I think this might come as a surprise to some/many, but that is NOT DF in the New Frontier video nor the vast majority of Nightfly promos with pics.
It was a double I believe he is Italian.
This is rock solid info.
DF just wasn't and generally into promo/video stuff, so they found a "body/face double". But they did do a hell of a job at it...
Just thought I'd throw a bomb in - or maybe everyone already knows - I can't keep up with the DanFanDom knowledge base...
Reards!
Date: Wed, March 23, 2005, 11:43:12 ET
Posted by: SouthOfHollywood, Anything At All
Speaking of Jeff Pevar...
As I was driving to work the other morning, I heard a song on the radio that sounded SO much like someone we all know and love that it forced me to contact the station for more information (as the jock never mentioned the artist on the air)...
Turns out the band was CPR, which is David Crosby, Jeff Pevar and James Raymond (Crosby's son)...The self-titled CD was released in (gasp) 1998 and is now OOP and it took some digging on the net to procure it but WOW...This band/release had almost zero recognition that I can recall yet this is truly one of the best things I've heard in years...Are any of you familiar with this release?
I've included a review that I snatched from their website...
www.crosbycpr.com
Sorry about the length of this post...
SOH
CPR
Crosby's greatest strength as a writer has always been his jazzy ballads with unusual tunings and chord changes. "Triad," "Compass," "Tracks in the Dust," all of these and others bring to mind a mix of Joni Mitchell's early-to-mid period of work crossed with late guitarist Michael Hedges in their melodic structure and feel. Less successful are his ill-advised forays into hard rock territory ("Nighttime For the Generals" and "Drive My Car" spring to mind...)
Thankfully, CPR's self-titled debut studio release (available at regular retail outlets) is made up almost entirely of beautiful, jazzy ballads, with only a few tracks even in the mid-tempo category. Easily the best thing Crosby's been involved in since CSN's 1977 CSN album, the teaming with his son has recharged his writing (his last solo studio release, 1993's Thousand Roads contained only three Crosby-penned tunes).
The album opens with "Morrison," and if you yearn for the days of Royal Scam-era Steely Dan, you'll be quite happy with this track. Instantly catchy with chord changes and melodic lines that are pure Fagen-Becker, Raymond wrote the music to accompany Crosby's lyrics about lost soul Jim Morrison. Crosby admits on the live album that he's puzzled these words started flowing from him because he "...didn't like Jim Morrison!" Pevar turns in a classy solo that sounds like, well, Larry Carlton playing with Steely Dan.
Equally Dan-ish is "Somebody Else's Town," one of the best songs on the album and again, Raymond wrote the music to Crosby and Pevar's lyrics. One ofa number of tracks on which James sings lead, his voice is somewhat thin, lacking the richness and distinction of his dad's, but it's not a detraction. He's just a better pianist, writer and harmonizer than he is a lead vocalist, especially with Crosby in the group. Indeed, his other compositions on which he also sings lead ("One For Every Moment," "Yesterday's Child") are among the standout songs on CPR.
Crosby also offers up some of the finest compositions of his career in the forms of "Somehow She Knew" and "Time Is the Final Currency." Both are delicate acoustic ballads with gorgeous harmonies. The album's only rocker, "It's All Coming Back To Me" is similar in feel to his CSN classic, "Long Time Gone."
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 23:41:32 ET
Posted by: Chai_Latte, Yellow VW beetle
Just got home from the first set of Carolyn Leonhart, ever so languid and bittersweet, at Sweet Rythym N.Y.C.
Hoops, Carolyn says a personal hello.
This lady can SING! As those in the front row of Roseland Friday night can attest to, wish I had been there....
Anyway, Carolyn's new CD comes out next week. I got an advance copy tonight along with the chills, what a group behind her! Serious sax, that's among the things I MISS THE MOST.
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 23:24:20 ET
Posted by: Fagen Audio Crack Whore,
Jim: You too? Frankly, partway through the first spin of 11 ToW, the thought of that CD becoming an airborne frisbee slung from my hand occured to me. Down at the Bottom was pretty minimalist, Junkie girl not much more except for Walter's understated yet tasty guitar solo. i had no clue what to make of Surf and/or die. It was anit-Dan...the Kryptonite to a Deacon Blues sax solo. Nothing like the Dan touches say on China Crisis or Rickie Lee Jones' albums produced by Walter. Blues bass and drums with little jazz or surface. All bottom of the pan...and it's burnt...bad
Book of Liars opens sneakily with a repetitive ascending keyboard phrase. The verse slips and slides a bit...jazzy phrasing in the chorus. and then those TWO CHORDS that burst through the contrapuntal straightjacket to the brilliant Gob Shephard solo. Much like when Dorothy swing the door open in Oz with a burst of rainbow that surely stunned the original moviegoers, seeing color on the big screen for the first time. The production just opens up after that with Lucky Henry shredding what's left of Walter's cardboard house of minimalism.
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 18:35:32 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I'll only be 34 in 2022... I sure hope I'm still alive. Steely Dan would be in their 70s by then, I can't wait to read the Bluebook dicussion about Donald's singing voice at that point... :)
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 18:04:01 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
Brubeck, like Mose and Jarret, just keep-a-goin. Here's hoping the Fates are kind enough to D&W (and the rest of us for that matter)to allow them to enjoy that same longevity. I wonder what the 15th Steely Dan album, tentatively entitled, "We'll Be Waiting When You Get Here," due I'd say around...2022 might sound like. Probably a little light on the guitar solos, huh?
Mozel tov, Paul, remember, time is tight.
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 17:36:26 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I had never heard of the Brubeck quartet (outside of New Frontier) until I googled "Blue Rondo a La Turk"... he/they sound pretty cool, I'm going have to pick up a copy of "Time Out" now. Thanks.
"Googled" is an adjective now, what a crazy world.
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 16:52:15 ET
Posted by: ygk,
And let's not forget "Blue Rondo a La Turk"........
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 14:15:19 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
"It is the era of the third world." Presumably, a line from the Ghana rondo. The rondo being some kind of format like the sung "rounds" of Medieval times. Like, "Row row row your boat," is a modern-day round.
Blue Floyd...stranger than truth.
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 14:13:29 ET
Posted by: Paul, Off to barbados
Nevermind the TWM thread, I looked it up with Babelfish translator:
Italian: El'era del terzo mondo
English: it was of the third world
Needless to say, the Italian sounds better.
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 14:00:33 ET
Posted by: Blue Floyd, Macon GA
More useless information from W1P
Raj, did you know that Matt Abs is in a JamBand/Allman Bros take on Pink Floyd called "Blue Floyd" that also includes Barry Oakley Jr, Johnny Neel and Jeff Pevar?
http://www.bluefloyd.net/index2.htm
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 13:55:49 ET
Posted by: Paul, Bunker full of sand
There may be no direct answer to this, but what does
"El'era del terzo mondo" at the end of Third World Man mean? Does it have a meaning?
I would suspect that there's a discussion about this on Fever Dreams, but since fever dreams is down...
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 13:32:18 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Thank you Mr. J, will do. Those cymbals of his are set so damn low, it adds to his already phenomenonal economy of movement. I was very impressed with Antonio Sanchez' banked-down intensity and at the same time, his cool. Other drummers like our Keith, Billy Cobham, Dennis Chambers, Copeland, Matt Abst from Gov't Mule are fun to watch from a more physical, balletic POV. Then there's the "train-wreck" drummers which I would offer are guys like Keith Moon, Krupa, Butch Trucks, John Bonham, Ginger Baker; sometimes they look ugly but they get results. Then there are guys like Gadd, Porcaro, Buddy Rich, and Vinnie (genuflecting) who defy description. But one thing for sure, it's all about the bangers, dude. Hitting a can with a stick is where it all starts.
About Walter, his stuff is very raw, he pulls no punches. Royal Scam and 11 TOW do share a kinship. I sense a good deal of darkness, danger and a slice of anger in these records.
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 13:12:47 ET
Posted by: angel,
Googled Steely Dan this morning and the Snake Babe turned up. For those who own the Taxicab Confessions DVD, she was one of the "guests" in the car with Donald and Walter, along with her partner the snake. More here....
http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2005/3/emw218852.htm
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 13:01:38 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons Island
Raj - if you really want some insight to Antonio Sanchez' drumming, go get Metheny's "Speaking Of Now" dvd. You'll get plenty of close-up footage of him doing his thing. No charge for this info.
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 12:47:51 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons Island
Rajah - he has a pedal right next to his hi-hat pedal that strikes a cowbell. He does a lot of patterns where his left foot alternates between that cowbell and the hi-hat. He also has a double pedal for the bass drum - thus simulating double bass. He has two toms mounted over the bass drum and two mounted floor toms to his right. To his left were some auxillary percussion things like timbales, triangles, triggered pads, etc. As for cymbals I can only tell you they're Zildjians and there's a shitload of'em!! As for his style of playing: I would have to say it is very uniquely his! With all of that left foot clave stuff he does you could compare him to Horacio "El Negro" Hernandez - but only in that similarity. Hernandez is the freak who's been drumming a lot with Michel Camilo. That style question's a tough one there Raj. He simply does not sound like any other drummer that I'm aware of.
The song with all of the raging guitars is called "The Roots Of Coincidence" and it's on the Imaginary Day cd. And yeah - they played the hell out of it!!
You echo what a lot of Metheny fans have stated about The Way Up. I jumped on it from the beginning and it got better and better. Other Metheniacs have found that it took some time to adjust to. There's just so damned much musical information going on in that piece that it may take the brain a few listens before you start to pick up on how they take that basic melody and twist it and turn it every possible way imaginable. But then, I could just be full of shit.
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 12:43:05 ET
Posted by: hoops,
For me the thing to take note of with 11TOW is that, as one review put it when it came out, it gives you a sense of what Walter contributes to Steely Dan. It's subtle for sure and there is never a SD song that is more Walter or more Donald yet there's this sorta sense you get. Another thing to consider is that SD appeals to so many on different levels. Clearly there are those who love it for the musicianship. There are those who love the surreal lyrics, those who love the chord progressions, those who love Donald's unique-sounding voice (Who'd thought my favorite vocalist would be nasally!?) And of course, there are those who love Steely Dan as Classic Rock or supermarket store music. It works on every level. For many of us, that's what's so great. And let's not forget that Steely Dan is a gateway to Jazz for so many of us.
Some people say they don't care for Walter's voice (the most common complaint I hear for those who don't get into 11TOW). I think one way to shift your approach (if that's what you want to do) is to consider that Donald's voice isn't conventionally beautiful--hey it is a nasally at times by some people's standards--as well but there's so much more to appreciate.) That said, both are superb singers in terms of delivery, timing, phrasing and subtlety.
Any how, 11TOW has a touch more spontaneity, all of the musicianship and all those marvelous off-beat characters, not to mention, ATTITUDE.
Believe it or not, I do have some friends who don't like Steely Dan or Donald Fagen that much (You say, "What kind of friends are those?") but love 11TOW.
Am I the only one who somehow senses a shift in the production on 11TOW starting with "Book of Liars?"
Also, the recent discussion of "The Royal Scam" reminded me of the characters in the songs on that album and, you know, more than any other SD album, "The Royal Scam" somehow seems topically similar to 11TOW.
jim
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 12:13:24 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Josey - couple more things, to whom might you compare Sanchez' style? He's a bird of quite a different feather. You were quite a bit closer than we were, what's his pedal configuration look like, how many floor toms, does this guy sweat at all??? That left of his is incredibly versitile. And did they do that number where Lyle Mays dons a guitar, awesome, like a half dozen guitars being played on that one tune. Yes, the three guys up top together with Sanchez makes this incarnation of PMG a world ensemble. All those instruments employed are a bit flashy but fun.
Did you need an intermission? Why does he choose to play right on through?
The Way Up gets more accessible with each play, you start to get to know the signposts and roadmarkers and 68 minutes starts seeming shorter and shorter in duration.
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 11:53:22 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons Island
Stevee - that tune's absolutely one of my faves as well! All the more surprising Sunday night because when they came out for the encore I was sure it was either going to be "Talk" or "First Circle" - which are also great songs. Unfortunately, Song For Bilbao was the only encore song they played. I think the show clocked in at right under 3 hours. Have you heard the new one and if so, whaddya think?
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 11:45:59 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, Under piles of work
Hi Josey --
Song For Bilbao is one of my favorite Metheny tunes. On that old live CD (originally released on vinyl) called "Travels" Lyle Mays plays a truly awe-inspiring solo on that song. I've been trying to cop his style from that performance for years now. Third row seats? You're talking my language. Must have been absolutely killer experience. I haven't seen Metheny live in years, but, when I did I always cashed in big-time for the best possible seats.
I have of late been satisfying myself with Metheny DVDs, but with everything going on around me right now, I don't have time to sit down and just gel into one of those Metheny DVDs for quite a while to come yet. Plus the kid is home for vacation the rest of this week.
Help Mr. Wizard !!!
SteveeDan
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 11:25:47 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons Island
It was the most amazing display of musical talent I've ever witnessed! I can't believe how well they pull off the new cd live.
Raj - what Antonio Sanchez does is hard to describe. He plays some ripleys-believe-it-or-not shit with such a light touch. Our seats were on the 3rd row with him directly in front of us. Which meant Metheny was usually right in front of us as he spends most of the show standing right in front of the drummer! They only played one encore which was the song I had inquired about with you a few weeks ago - "Song For Bilbao". Obviously there were a couple of setlist changes recently because I had the setlist from the Buffalo show and while they stuck to most of what I had, they changed the end of the show a bit. They did not play "First Circle" or "(It's Just) Talk". The three guys in the back are essentially what I would call musical swiss army knives. They play every damn thing you can imagine! Which is typical of the musicians Metheny hires. I could go on and on about how amazing it was, but I don't want to hijack Hoops' site regarding something that doesn't have a damn thing to do with the Dan. I would simply encourage anyone who has the chance to see these guys to please do so!!
Date: Tues, March 22, 2005, 03:31:17 ET
Posted by: rollerskater, 90 minutes from New York
Hoops, Oleander
Thanks for the info re feverdreams. Looking forward to expanding my knowledge as I embark on my usual springtime rediscovery of SD and DF solo. Maybe this is the year I finally warm to "11 tracks," since I'm not a musician I know there's something I'm missing there...
Date: Mon, March 21, 2005, 23:14:56 ET
Posted by: tg, down on the farm
Yeah Josey, I'm expecting a detailed report ASAP!!
Date: Mon, March 21, 2005, 18:26:13 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
Yo Josey, how was Metheny last night, I'm looking forward to an informed review from a die-hard fan...how's that drummer???
Date: Mon, March 21, 2005, 15:42:54 ET
Posted by: Paul, Green Flower Street
Apparently there is no 4-channel MP3... only 5.1 OGG.
Oh well, I did get my home stereo to work out a lot better. Apparently, my DVD software was set to only 2 speakers. I changed it to 4 and installed a DTS codec, and it sounds a lot better.
I love the Nightfly. Wow. I love The Nightfly
Date: Mon, March 21, 2005, 14:21:09 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
The Nightfly DVD-A just arrived today, the fastest Amazon has ever been... Unfortunately, I really don't think I have the proper setup. Although the audio is much crisper, the Dolby 5.1 is not amazingly different from the Stereo version, and my computer doesn't have DTS codecs installed. Worth the $12? Probably. I'll take the disc over to my friend's house who have a complete 5.1 surround system setup.
If I rip the audio off the disc to 4 channel MP3, I can listen to it in my car. I might get a better effect then, since my car has a better sound system than my home theater/computer.
The "New Frontier" video is cool...
Date: Mon, March 21, 2005, 07:12:45 ET
Posted by: oleander, still in limbo
Hey there--
Thx, Hoops!--yes, fever dreams is still in limbo, but will be back soon. The url, however, is not feverdreams.com--that's someone else's site. It will be feverdreams.net.
Rollerskater--sorry for the inconvenience. E me at the above and I'll send you some comments that have been written about those subjects.
thanks
oleander
Date: Sun, March 20, 2005, 14:01:41 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Great news, Ed! Thanks to you and SS. Great way to start off Sunday morning. I am pretty certain these are going to be SACD. My understanding is that you need more tapes and channels than they have to do these, plus Universal has an agreement to release titles in SCAD before they release them in DVD-A. Glad to hear Walter and Scheiner are involved. Heck, glad to hear what Walter is up to!
AT: Oleander, who is the head of "feverdreams.com posted a few posts below. You can email her; she also communicated to us a few weeks ago that Fever Dream is indeed down but will make it's way back sooner or later.
And now the usual message—
Yet another Dandom Digest was sent this past Friday night, this time covering March 12-18, 2005.
If you are a subscriber, you should already have it in your email box. If you didn't receive it, please email me. Again, the main reason I am in the habit of announcing this here is because some people have been having problems with delivery of the Dandom Digest, usually because of spam filters, firewalls, etc.
The following are the subjects of this particular edition of the Dandom Digest:
— Steely Dan "Piano Jazz" CD Now Out
— df.com: "Wang-dang-doodle in Princeville"
— Re: Todd and Don Jam Report
— Hawaii Report
— Hawaii Jam, where is Walter?
— Donald - better off on his own?
— Jay Graydon
— Re: Jay Graydon
— Taking Another Whack at Godwhacker
— Rethinking My Previous Whack at Godwhacker
If you are not currently a subscriber but would like to receive the free Dandom Digest email newsletter (definitely not to be confused with the glorious Official steelydan.com or Official donaldfagen.com newsletters/mail lists), please email me or see http://www.dandom.com/dandomdigest
jim
Date: Sun, March 20, 2005, 12:06:02 ET
Posted by: ss, hk
This is from the MARCH issue of the same (I believe) magazine.
"VD-Audio and Super Audio CD aren't dead ¡X yet. And you could find a few die-hard supporters at CES trying to keep both formats alive ¡X like S&V contributor Mike Mettler, who moderated a discussion on music in surround that included Dweezil Zappa, Steely Dan's Walter Becker, and multichannel recording pioneer Elliot Scheiner. But there were no big hardware or software announcements, and the few-and-far-between panels were the only places where anyone was really talking about either format. With new releases having come almost completely to a halt and DualDisc's future uncertain, it looks like DVD-Audio and SACD are likely to remain audiophile playthings."
Date: Sun, March 20, 2005, 11:16:46 ET
Posted by: ss, hk
Massive news Ed...any word though on whether it's SACD or DVD-A ?
Date: Sun, March 20, 2005, 09:59:38 ET
Posted by: edbeatty, @the backyard with the NYTIMES
Good Morning,
In the U.S.MAIL yesterday came my copy of Sound&Vision April 2005
and low and behold I find on page 15 is a column entitled 15 minutes with Walter Becker.
One tidbit from the article is that Pretzel Logic has been re-mixed for surround sound and awaiting scheduling for release and that the Royal Scam awaiting in the wings.
Eliott Scheiner as engineer for this effort of course
I do believe that Sound and Vision has a web site
www.soundandvisionmag.com and the article should be up there for all to peruse.
Ed (back to the Sunday NYTimes and the rain)Beatty
Date: Sun, March 20, 2005, 09:18:49 ET
Posted by: Geoff,
Aja - yes it's me... I should have checked back earlier, don't think I can make it on 25th. I was going to go th NYC that weekend (Carlock/Krantz) but that fell through too.
Date: Sun, March 20, 2005, 09:17:13 ET
Posted by: Josey, Getting ready for Metheny tonight!
Chrysler - I'm with ya re: Paul Simon. I never get tired of hearing "Late In The Evening" and never tire of playing that beat! Another one of Gadd's signatures. He's always got an amazingly tight band.
Date: Sun, March 20, 2005, 08:50:13 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
Actually, Pat Metheny's work, particularly the PMG, is also superb "road music." There's just something about it that lends itself well to listening while "on the road." A feeling of freedom, grand vistas, better things ahead, that kind of thing.
I'd also have to add Paul Simon to the list of popular artists I can't seem to tire of (I can hear the collective groan from many Blue Book posters now--I don't care, the guy's consistently brilliant). I think the whole "world music" infusion into pop music really started with him, from BRIDGE OVER TROUBLED WATER on. It just took a long time for the rest of the pop universe to catch up. But it was Simon who planted the seed (I'm talking pop music SONGWRITING now, not pop instrumental orchestras, or jazz, or fusion). And don't argue, "no, it was bossa nova that planted the world music seed in songwriting"--bossa nova was a pop-cultural phenomenon that dissipated by the late 60s (even in Brazil!) except among jazz artists, who continued to carry the torch.
Date: Sun, March 20, 2005, 05:16:43 ET
Posted by: rollerskater, paris
Greetings, I was wondering if anyone knows what happened to the feverdreams site? I would check it from time to time to elucidate my Dan lyric/theme questions. Listening to Royal Scam recently for the first time in years, and had problems divining the phrases "angry race of fallen kings" "city of St. John" and the like. Is this a good place to throw out questions like that or is there a better site?
Date: Sun, March 20, 2005, 01:47:02 ET
Posted by: ss, hk
Yeah, I miswrote a bit on the Katy Lied cover. I'll qualify it only by saying there are a lot of songs there with different styles and the cover doesn't speak to them all...in the same way other covers do. For me anyway. Can't argue though with what others have wrote.
Don't know why they couldn't do surround discs for earlier albums. Technically it's possible if you have the masters.
Date: Sun, March 20, 2005, 01:35:58 ET
Posted by: oleander , just say yo
Hey Mu--E me. Met somebody you know.
Date: Sat, March 19, 2005, 22:23:31 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo
On the theme of drugs, one perfect example of how a person's addiction can not only screw up their own life, but many other people's as well, maybe some of you experts out there can confirm this story. Back in the mid-70s (the EXACT year now escapes me!) SD did their very first UK tour. I booked to see them in Manchester and of course, they were brilliant. Their next venue was in Leeds, way over the Pennine hills from my town, but the following one was in Liverpool, an hour's drive from home. My friend and I had enjoyed the Manchester concert so much, that we decided to take our chances to see if there were any tickets left for the Liverpool concert, so we went down there on the off-chance. When we arrived, there was a notice on the venue doors saying that the concert was cancelled due to the sickness of 2 of the band members. As far as I know, the Leeds venue the night before, was the last live venue SD did (certainly in the UK), until the 90's renaissance. Of course, word on the street was that the band couldn't obtain the quality drugs that they could in the US and had decided to head for home!
True?? I don't know. All I know is that there were a lot of disappointed fans around, who had paid out good money, devoted time and loyalty, only to be disappointed. And they were just by-passers in the grand scheme of things. What about everyone else more closely connected?? Plus, it's general knowledge how at least one of our heros has suffered because of addiction.
Moral? Don't do drugs - it's not worth it - personal pleasure for everyone else's pain. Call me old fashioned and moralistic, but come here to Borneo and you'll get hung for pushing! I used to think that was heavy, but when I see so many lives messed up by drugs, I don't think so.
Sleep well!
Ann
Date: Sat, March 19, 2005, 21:40:36 ET
Posted by: Paul,
Liz, so this isn't the best source, but take a look at the steely dan dictionary under the entry "Doctor Wu":
http://members.aol.com/danomalley/steelydan/index.html#doctorwu
Date: Sat, March 19, 2005, 19:14:16 ET
Posted by: Paul,
Woops, I meant that. They're both the same person, right? :)
Date: Sat, March 19, 2005, 19:03:35 ET
Posted by: Dave, Kansas City
I heard or this might be a rumor that a company is designing a device for vehicles to get them out of the mud holes or something.
Steely Dan Rules
Date: Sat, March 19, 2005, 14:50:23 ET
Posted by: Seth,
Liz~ What you don't know....won't hurt you.
Date: Sat, March 19, 2005, 14:32:43 ET
Posted by: Liz Reed, eating a peach
It was Walter Becker that had the drug addiction, allegedly. I never read or heard anything about Donald having any such addiction.
Date: Sat, March 19, 2005, 13:07:08 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
The Katy Lied cover is immensly symbolic, especially if you buy into the idea that "Dr Wu" is about Fagen's battle with drug addiction. The Praying Mantis female (Katydid) eats the head off the male after mating. Drug addiction screws you over big time after an ecstactic (is that a word?) relationship. The cover isn't exclusively for "Dr Wu" either, that sort of "fun 'til your dead" parallel works for other songs on the album... "Lighting" and "Movies" stand out the most.
I completely realize that DVD-A's for early Steely Dan would be impossible. Heck, all the Beatles albums before "Rubber Soul" were Mono, and since there's no masters, no stereo remixes. I can imagine that Kamikiriad would be beautiful in 5.1 surround, especially "Trans-Island".
SACDs play in standard CD players? Maybe mine does, it was expensive enough...
I only have 4 channel surround (plus a sub) set up, I hope that works out alright for the DVD albums I bought. Perhaps I should buy some more speakers, but where would I put the fifth? Currently I have the sub under my computer desk, the front 2 speakers on top, and the rear 2 speakers behind me. So where does #5 go?
Date: Sat, March 19, 2005, 11:12:48 ET
Posted by: BugBoy, .
Sparkin - No connection on the Katy Lied cover? How about a big giant Katydid? Katy Lied, Katydid. She might bite your head off too if she gets hungry enough.
Date: Sat, March 19, 2005, 08:40:45 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
Hoops, Rajah: Besides Steely Dan, the only other popular music artists I can listen to over and over again and NEVER get tired of are The Beatles, Joni Mitchell, and Peter Gabriel. And songs by Jobim, Jimmy Webb, and all the great American standards tunesmiths of the 20th century. But why is it 9 times out of 10, I find myself popping in a Steely Dan, Fagen, or Becker cassette when I'm driving in my car? Why are they the ultimate road music for me? Don't know and don't care-- I just HAVE to listen to SD!
Date: Sat, March 19, 2005, 00:52:31 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', HK
Spank me if I'm wrong...or just spank me for good fun....but I think Larry C. is on record saying Kid C. is he best thing he's done. Done in two parts (I think) ....and the solo at the end was a first pass.
A Royal Scam DVD-A would be outrageous. My whole take on the album changed when I got the re-issue. I can't stress enough that decent gear makes a huge difference in appreciating the music. Although...I had 11 Tracks on a beat up cassette machine for a long time before getting the CD and it worked quite nicely that way. So, maybe it's a little album dependent.
Now how about covers.....and I mean album covers.
I'm particularly impressed with the AJA cover. That black and red, for reasons I can't describe, is a great fit for the music. The Katy Lied cover though....of all of them, that one misses for me. Doesn't do anything to complement or support the songs.
Date: Sat, March 19, 2005, 00:42:24 ET
Posted by: Switched On Bach, Heaven
I detest all those annoying symphony orchestras that keep playing music by guys who have been dead for 100s of years
Date: Sat, March 19, 2005, 00:06:47 ET
Posted by: Lee Iacocca, Switching to GM
I just don't hear anything by Larry Carlton that ever matched or will ever match what he did on KC. As for the vocoder on HD, well, it's in the pantheon of great talk box solos along with Rocky Mountain Way, Tell Me Something Good, Do You Feel Like I Do and, of course, Pigs (Three Different Ones).
Date: Sat, March 19, 2005, 00:02:10 ET
Posted by: W1P, Rajah's Hang -- Paladino's
See Raj, you cannot help yourself. You find yourself drawn to Which One's Pink? at Paladino's on 3/25 which is why you made your little Floydian slip, fess up.
Date: Sat, March 19, 2005, 00:00:27 ET
Posted by: Everybody Run, Homecoming Queen's Gotta Gun, Johnny, Whose Johnny?
C'mon Johnny, it's not tribute bands that are annoying. It's me (W1P).
Date: Fri, March 18, 2005, 22:47:56 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, Spring, Break
Thank you Syracuse. Oh, and you too, Boston Rag!
Date: Fri, March 18, 2005, 21:44:09 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Regarding the DVD-A thread, I'm sure Becker and Fagen would be glad to have DVD-A of all the SD albums but clearly they lack the masters. And of course many of us are aware that the masters to part of "Aja" is why we don't have DVD-A of that. In general, what's great about DVD-A is the ability to further pick apart the individual parts and further appreciate them. The one album for me that gets completely transformed is "Kamakiriad." That album is so much warmer on DVD-A. Mind you, I don't own a proper DVD-A system but I've had the opportunity to hear it a few times in glorious DVD-A. Still, the there are other features that are interesting to take advantage of with a DVD-A and a simple DVD drive. A couple of anomalies about "Gaucho" which I have brought up before. One, on "My Rival," there is this conga roll from the intro at about 17 seconds in. It seems to be missing on the DVD-A. Anyone else encouter this? Second, it appears the 5.1 is not included on the DVD-A disc of "Gaucho" meaning if you want that, you should get the 5.1 DTS version that came out circa 1998/99. (It goes without saying, someone will correct me if I am wrong about that.) Finally, even if you just have a CD audio player (in your car, for example), the SACD of "Gaucho" has an amazing CD Audio mix that is the best yet and well worth the $12.99 I have seen it for.
I remember when I bought ther 1999 remaster of "The Royal Scam" at an inde shop and the guy who ran the place said to me, "The Royal Scam" is truly the Fan's Fan album. There's just something technically amazing about the playing on it and the attitude on "The Royal Scam" is turned up just a bit more than average. When I heard 11TOW, I thought to myself how it has that same attitude, turned up a notch, like "The Royal Scam."
Surely this whole business of ranking "Steely Dan" albums is on some internal scale of just SD album, because when you put any SD album on a scale of all albums ever made, they all rank at least 4.96 out of 5.0. As I've said before, perhaps there are some SD songs I prefer ever so slightly more than others, but there is not a Steely Dan, Walter Becker or Donald Fagen track I don't like. I can't say that about any other musical artist.
I though Carlock's drumming "Piano Jazz" was stupendous. As Marian said, "Wow, what a rhythm section!"
I suffer from "Architect's Dyslexia" which means if it looks flush and the fonts are right, then the spelling is assumed to be OK. Glad the spelling bullshit is over.
Feeling better these days. Dr Mµ/FACW was right about the four week cycle of this flu.
jim
Date: Fri, March 18, 2005, 15:04:59 ET
Posted by: Elizabeth Reed, Macon
I'll be out of town.......
Date: Fri, March 18, 2005, 13:49:41 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.
My bad, 26th @ Paladino's not 25th for Dr. Wu.
Date: Fri, March 18, 2005, 13:16:12 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
RS would definetely be an album much improved by DVD-A.
Date: Fri, March 18, 2005, 12:30:55 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.
Cranky this morning, what?
Funny you should mention Tribute Bands. Whenever I go see our Dr. Wu (March 25 @ Paladino's) or Pretzel Logic (April 1 @ BB King's), and I go to every show cause I'm a sick, sick man and can't help myself, I always think, "cripes, I hope they don't play KC, FM, MOS, Hey 19..." Then when these tunes start up and I hear those chords which are by now embossed in my memory banks, I tend to forget all that and find myself groovin' to the old chestnuts yet again.
Is it flat-line, brain-dead loyalty, I wonder, Pavlovian response, my own personal hell, a Manchurian Candidate thing or just a startling lack of imagination?
Date: Fri, March 18, 2005, 11:56:35 ET
Posted by: Johnny,
W1P~ You're right! The only thing more annoying than Caves and Green Earrings are tribute bands.
Date: Fri, March 18, 2005, 11:51:46 ET
Posted by: Seth,
Compared to the solos on Larry Carlton's own album Last Nite, KC is , well,
Well WHAT? Mr.Know-it-all
Date: Fri, March 18, 2005, 11:24:36 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Tunes as catchy as KC & GE (throw in FM, MOS) can get old if you hear them too much. That's the downside to a catchy tune.
Caves is a fun song with that horn arrangement, like a pop-up greeting card stuck into the record. The reggae form with talk box on HD together with one of their best narratives make that one an all-time favorite.
These tunes have consistently given me problems over the years:
Fire In The Hole
Change Of The Guard
Show Biz Kids
Charlie Freak
These I find very engaging musically but somehow the lyric didn't match or serve the tune and kinda dragged it down.
Turn That Heartbeat Over Again
Monkey In Your Soul
Throw Back the Little Ones
Date: Fri, March 18, 2005, 11:19:16 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Compared to the solos on Larry Carlton's own album Last Nite, KC is , well,
Date: Fri, March 18, 2005, 09:25:09 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, Just above the Mason-Dixon line
Maybe I've just heard them too many times, but after 29 years I don't think all that highly of either "Kid Charlemagne" or "Haitian Divorce." I now think they're the least interesting songs on RS. Is that really Larry Carlton's best work on "KC?" I don't think so. In fact, I've never understood all the fuss made about that particular solo. Hell, the pasted on solo from TWM is much more aesthetically satisfying and a better representative of Carlton's artistry. And the incredibly stupid, ubiquitous "voice-gurgle" guitar on "HD" (who does that, Dean Parks?) is just plain irritating. Neither tune is one of SD's best, IMHO. The title track is a big step up in quality from those two, but in the end I hear it as a mere precursor to the later, greater "epic" Dan songs ("Aja," "Gaucho"). The remainder of RS is classic, imperishable SD (yes, even "The Fez," but especially "Sign In Stranger" and "Don't Take Me Alive"). Just the way I hear it now . . .
Date: Fri, March 18, 2005, 07:55:17 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I really love the original "Caves" demo.
Date: Fri, March 18, 2005, 05:52:13 ET
Posted by: Due with Buzz, Cafe D'Escargot
May I remind you of BwaySteve's "Caves of Altamira" then?
It's about guitars and vocals 'only', but the arrangement is done very cleverly, so you don't miss anything. I know I don't.
Date: Fri, March 18, 2005, 03:21:59 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
Yeah Caves of Altimira and Green Earrings are pretty annoying -- one doesnt have enough guitar and the other has too much.
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 23:54:16 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Just ordered the DVD-A versions of Nightfly and TvN from Amazon. I wish they didn't take a week to ship, but I bought the albums for half of what I would have paid at Goody or B&N or any other crappy retail store. I guess I'll just have to be content with stereo for another week.
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 23:46:53 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Sparklin': Yeah, I completely agree. My fav. album has changed once or twice since I "discovered" SD in December (thank you "Citizen" box-set...). I used to hate EMG, now it's a good one to listen to in the car. I didn't really even used to like Katy Lied. Aja has always been up there, however. Before I got Citizen, I only had the Aja and CBAT albums, and so Aja was my favorite.
Lately though, I've only been listening to Pink Floyd....
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 23:19:24 ET
Posted by: Rajah, In Memory of...
In a radio broadcast format the drummer is at a distinct disadvantage. He's usually separated from the band in a number of ways. I might cop to KC sounding a tad "clanky" on Limbo Jazz and Josie, maybe, the rim shots, but this recording is made up of a very courageously raw set of takes. Really hard to mike drums properly in a radio studio, I mean, approaching a Steely Dan-quality drum take? Faux-Get-Abboutit. There's no hands-on from Don or Walt evident in the credits, I'm sure they rehearsed a bit and did a couple-two-tree takes of some songs but all that notwithstanding, what we hear on Piano Jazz, to these ears, is a live recording. Make no compare to AIA. I hear a lot of noise, hiss and crackle cleansing from what I've been listening to on Andy Metzger's very fine offerings, thanks for a 2-year leap to PJ, Andy, but you Ms. Reed, you should be tied to the whippin post..ok, I'll give you one concession: maybe they didn't even need a drummer for Piano Jazz.
PJ is a great listen for in the car.
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 22:53:15 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', HK
Paul...I would suggest the Royal Scam is a better recording than Katy Lied....certainly if you're comparing re-issues. Could depend a lot on what you're using to listen to it. Was it sound quality you were referring to ?
You might find yourself shifting favourites from time to time, even for years. I didn't think much of Josie for the first 25 years or so. Some songs (albums) are like that.
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 20:36:27 ET
Posted by: Elizabeth Reed, Muscle Shoals
Listening to the Marian McPartland/Dan cd, I feel that Carlock played like a high school band drummer. It interfered with Donald's voice (which sounds excellent on the cd, very smooth) and also clashed with the mood of the instrumentals played. He was way too hard. On "Josie," which was supposed to be a laid back, "acoustic" version, if you will, he was banging away like he thought he was working for Ted Nugent. His style is too rough edged for the more jazz-tinged version of SD.
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 20:16:05 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Webester: Although "than" is a mistake, I could argue that using "my self" instead of "myself" is completely acceptable. I'll look it up...
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 18:49:54 ET
Posted by: Fagen Audio Crack Whore,
Pauly: Run, don't walk and pick up all the Fage, Dan DVD-As Marked improvement except for EMG. TvN, Kamakiriad, and the Nightfly are like different records. Gaucho DVD-A for Babylon Sisters, TOOM, title track, TWM have a sense of urgency missing on CD.
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 15:14:16 ET
Posted by: maxwebster99, Toronto
New missive received from Lewis:
3/16/05
Our man in the Aloha State, Bubba Spreckels (let's call him that), went to a wang-dang-doodle in Princeville the other night. Here's his
report:
March 7, 2005
Even before we arrived, we could tell by the traffic on the North Shore that the entire social register of the island had turned out for the Kula Jam at the ballroom of the Princeville Hotel last night. And, boy-oh-boy, was the joint ever jumping! First the crowd was treated to the the mellifluous melodies of slack key guitar whanger Kenny Emerson and local warbler Toni Childs. And what a couple of closers -- that's right, you've already heard about it -- Todd "The Mod" Rundgren and Donald "Nightfly" Fagen finished the audience off and had the leftovers for breakfast on Sunday morning. The headliners were backed by a pack of solid senders including drummer Tris Imboden, guitarist/singer Allan "A.T." Thomas, Jimmy "Doc" Winkler on the eighty-eights and Trey Thompson a'slappin' on the groanbox.
I caught up with mistress of ceremonies, singer, radio personality and surefire woo-bait Michelle Rundgren in the lobby. "What a night!" gushed Michelle. "And we raised lots of money for the Kula School too!" The sentiment was dittoed by event organizer Benjy Garfinkle. And Mr. and Mrs. David and Samantha Geimer made sure the event ran like a Swiss clock. Heads turned for the late entrance of the sparkling (as always) aviatrix and kickboxer Lisa Hobbs . Also glittering among the revelers were the Misses Garfinkle, Amber and Chloe; Miss Koa Norman; Miss Vanessa Jade Martinez; and Mr. Keoni Steiner of Kilauea.
--
Sounds like a profound gass, Bubba. Thats all for now,
Lewis
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 14:09:49 ET
Posted by: Spelling Douche, Webester's
Yep, and than is spelled then and my self is spelled myself.
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 13:52:27 ET
Posted by: Fu*ker,
Spelling Douche - Webester's is spelled Webster's.
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 12:43:26 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Spelling: Is it really? Wow, than I've been making an a$$ of my self over the years...
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 09:47:06 ET
Posted by: Angel-girl, Milwaukee
WOW, I guess I got someone's shackles up,
"These "horrible things" you rant about are"
I wasn't RANTING, just sharing MY interpretation of a song.
Thanks for your thoughts, and thank God this is a free society where we can express our individual views. Otherwise it gets quite boring in just my head!
I love these SD groups because I am so isolated in my LOVE of the Dan. I just can't seem to find any friends that share my LOVE of SD. Sure, I have friends who will go with me to their much awaited concerts, even travel to the old "Poplar Creek", but they're just not IN TO IT like I am. BTW, anyone heard any whispers of another tour?
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 08:14:16 ET
Posted by: Spelling Douche, Classroom
Paul - segway is spelled segue.
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 08:12:26 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Chrysler - these 8 year kids on this show can *play* better than Boz Scaggs or Bruce Hornsby.
And often times when there's a major shift in jazz it comes from a player who's into classical music as well. Cf Bill Evans (the piano player, not the sax player of today) hipping Miles to Arturo Michaelangeli. The result was Kind Of Blue.
All the "Young Lions" of the 1980s, especially people like Wynton and Kenny Kirkland, had the classical thing going on.
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 08:08:47 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I'm taking the Clip Contest down, in case anyone cares, due to lack of interest. No one's guessed in at least 3 days.
The Royal Scam was awesome the first couple times I listened to it, but each time I did afterward, I would skip more and more tracks, until finally I'm just listening to "Kid Charlemagne", "Don't Take Me Alive". "Sign In Stranger", "Haitian Divorce" and sometimes "The Royal Scam". I guess it doesn't have the same audial quality as my fav., Katy Lied. 3 stars. Oddly enough, TvN gets better every time I listen to it, although I rearranged the track order on my SD Discography MP3-CD... Nevertheless, Scam seems to be a good segway between the definite change in style in and before Katy and the style used in and after Aja.
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 03:01:14 ET
Posted by: W1P, Rock Guitar
3.5 stars for Royal Scam. I must dissent, vigorously.
Date: Thurs, March 17, 2005, 01:31:05 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, Capital of Appalachia
PQ: C'mon, man, precocious little urchins playing music written more than 250 years ago is hardly the future. Those same cute l'il tykes will grow up to be just so many classical performance robots. THAT'S the future of music?
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 23:12:51 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
DVDA stuff is always so cool... I want to get DVDA version of The Nightfly, any one know if worth it?
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 22:52:18 ET
Posted by: moray eel, tick-tock
Regarding the snails...
It seems a little odd that Mount Tremper is spelled incorrectly. Kinda like the whole Louis/Lewis thing...
m.e.
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 22:36:54 ET
Posted by: Q, TPA
RS - re:sound - I would have to clarify as natural resonance and ambience - almost the 2VN of the 70s!- for very different reasons...
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 22:32:44 ET
Posted by: Q, TPA
Rajah appears very close to the mark with his summary discography.
My touch would be (assuming 5 stars is max...??)
CBAT - must be 3 stars with Only A Fool, Do It Again(original rendition), Reelin(same is critical), and Kings. Not to forget Dirty Work either.
CTE - yes!, this is where it "starts to get interesting" I say 3 1/2 stars, easy! Look for the Japanese pressings including both original issue and some of the reissues.
Pretzel- Other than Night By Night(with virtuoso rock guitar and just plain a grat rippin' tune) and Pretzel Logic( another of the early signs of genius for SD) this album does little for me. I' sure it's my problem. I assign the "style definition" branding to the next album... - 2 stars
Katy - Finally, the consumate emergence of DF & Wbs vision and talent. I don't know what the "flaws" are,and if you mean sound of the recording/mix/production - the issue has been well vetted and is tragic due to a big tech glich in mixdown. I recommend the Japanese 1500yen vinyl for the best rendition. Nothing less than 4 stars!
Royal Scam - Yes, the gold standard for Dan "rock" guitar. I have to say that this is the album that could have been recorded MUCH better! Needs more ambience, etc. (the original Victor Japanese vinyl pressing and the "Simply Vinyl" audiophile reissue are the way to go IMHO) - 3 1/2 stars
Aja - 7 stars, 100 stars - THE peak - a timeless work of popular art!
Original Japanese produced but released as ABC US stock issue rocks(email me for catalog # - these things are sought out by general savy stereo/music nuts but can still be found fairly easily for little $-i.e. $5-10), as well as many other good foreign vinyl pressings.
Gaucho - Rajah, too well expressed by you for me to touch! MCA Rainbow over audiophile vinyl is tops followed my MFSL gold CD
2VN - The most underrated Dan album IMHO - 2VN(the tune) Shame, Neg GIrl, South of Hollywood, Gaslighting, and the rest which holds up too. The DVDA version is a must though as the standard sounds too sterile and lacks depth of soundstage becaude of its DDD production.
EMG - Tragic - had the record company put any push behind this, I think that it could have been a much greater commercial success for the boys. However, their tour along side the release was not inspirational, unfortunately. Regarding the... disc itself - WOW - EMG, Gina(could have been a natural on the radio...), Pixeleen, Things I Miss The Most,Godwhacker. At least their 21st Century music is coherent and is still progressing! Again, go for the DVDA release - 3 1/2 stars
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 22:31:44 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., I hear you're mad about Brubeck....
Article about Dave Brubeck in today's Philly Inquirer....
(*) ALWAYS BRANCHING OUT, DAVE BRUBECK PLAYS ON
The jazz legend, at the Kimmel tonight, reminds that he's also not bad at classical and ballet.
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/magazine/daily/11145238.htm
By Annette John-Hall, Inquirer Staff Writer
"Still working at a hearty 84, Brubeck performs 80 concerts a year. He appears tonight with his quartet at the Kimmel Center, along with the Marian McPartland Trio, which yesterday released the album 85 Candles: Live in New York, from McPartland's 2003 birthday concert."
(*) As always, free registration required to view Inquirer articles online for one week from publication.
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 21:29:21 ET
Posted by: ss, hk
Looking at the size of those snails....some of them were definitely red-shirted.
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 18:17:55 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Thanks for the info, Daddy G.
Should we work as a group collecting for this? Or individually? I guess what matters is that we help out. Very sad.
jim
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 16:04:02 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., Gonna do just what I please, gonna wear no socks and shoes....
Hoops, This has nothing really to do with Steely Dan, but I believe it's somewhat relevant in a roundabout way and your last post made me think of this....
Silverberg Slows Down
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?category=0&id=30611
A day or two ago I found the above SciFiWire piece on SF Grand Master Robert Silverberg "retiring" to a more leisurely pace. In it, Mr. Silverberg gives his response to what someone has to say about one of his works (the first in a series of re-issues) and why it was chosen to be the first re-issue, how it relates to himself. I include the first paragraph for context, but I've CAPITALIZED the relevant part of Mr. Silverberg's response in the second:
[ .... Several of Silverberg's works will be re-issued by Pyr Books, starting with 1986's "Star of Gypsies", which follows Yakoub the Gypsy King as he comes out of exile to try and lead his people home. Lou Anders, Pyr's executive director, told SCI FI Wire that this is the perfect title to re-issue. "I don't know if you are aware, but Brian Stableford noted in the Encyclopedia of Science Fiction that Yakoub 'waiting in self-imposed exile for his one-time followers to realize how badly they need him, might be reckoned an ironic self-portrait,'" Anders said. "Whether Bob agrees with that or not, I don't know, but given the timing of his recent retirement and his Grand Master award, a book about another crowned 'king' executing a similar 'retirement' seemed perfect timing."
SILVERBERG'S RESPONSE: "I WAS JUST TRYING TO TELL A STORY ABOUT A REMARKABLE CHARACTER SET AGAINST THE MOST INVENTIVE BACKGROUND I COULD DEVISE. I WASN'T TRYING TO COMMENT ON ANYTHING PARTICULAR, AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT ITS THEMES ARE, LET ALONE WHETHER THEY'RE RELEVANT TODAY.... I'm just stepping back from an active career and waiting to see what happens next. As usual, I'll be the last to know. Everybody else seems to be able to figure out when I'm about to resume writing a lot faster than I do." .... ]
I can almost imagine D or W making very similar comments regarding some of their tunes. You're right about their songs' abstractness leading to our own individual interpretations. Often, a song has more meaning for me if I DON'T know what it's REALLY about. And I suspect it happens a lot that we the listener / reader / viewer reads more into a particular artistic endeavor than what the artist originally had in mind. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 15:34:13 ET
Posted by: Daddy G.,
Mindy Jostyn's website [ http://www.mindyjostyn.com ] has been updated with an announcement of her passing. There are a couple of Mindy Jostyn music scholarship funds set up....
>>> The Mindy Jostyn Music Scholarship Fund <<<
Principia College (Mindy's alma mater)
Elsah, IL 62028
>>> The Mindy Jostyn Music Scholarship Fund <<<
Hawthorne Valley School (the Waldorf School that Mindy's boys attend)
330 Route 21C
Ghent, NY 12075
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 15:27:04 ET
Posted by: Bob,
ICE Newsletter forum mentions the Steely Dan Piano Jazz CD. Links it back to the Billboard article.
http://www.icemagazine.com/forums/msgs.cfm?msg=138903&forum=5&tz=360
BN
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 14:32:51 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons Island
Lucille - nicely stated!
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 14:29:21 ET
Posted by: hoops,
A lot of Dan songs elicit the same response from me that abstract paintings do. To some extent, we as Dan fans have had our "sensors sculpted" and to another, things are left open enough so we come up with our own ideas. I think that is what SD appreciates about "Fever Dreams" and while they are not entirely nuts about listing exactly what they had in mind for every song's meaning.
Or as someone once wrote, "You can never be 100% certain what is happening in a Steely Dan song, but you get a pretty good idea they probably shouldn't be doing it!" <--one of my favorite quotes about the Dan.
thnx a.
jim
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 14:19:06 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Yikes, the Western Deity, as mankind has fashioned him/her/it/them is what should be whacked. That's the musical suggestion of Godwhacker. It's the perversion of the idea of godhead by societies, in many cases to suit their own very earthly aims, (no, would organized religions and governments use the idea of God as a control mechanism, a tool for imperialist policy, an opiate of their people?) that the Rajahs of Erase careen the heavens in search of, hell-bent, if you'll pardon the pun, to eliminate.
Me, Slinky Redfoot and our trusty Angel Girls.
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 13:47:11 ET
Posted by: your sister Lucille, Georgia
Not to start a religious debate, as this is not the place, but I had to chime in with my 2 cents worth about Angel girl's following comments:
"I've been postulating about "Godwhacker" and I'm thinking it's about the many gruesome, horrible things that a Higher Power or God has allowed to occur over the ages. Including sexual abuse, genocide, and "crimes beyond imagining"."
These "horrible things" you rant about are not caused by a Higher Power or God, but by the very CHOICE of humans to conduct themselves in abhorrent ways. God gave man free will, and these atrocities are all examples of that being utilized.
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 13:12:26 ET
Posted by: angel, Drive west on Sunset, to the sea
Hoops, I would expect no less from Steely Dan. They never allow inferior product to be released under their name. Remember what they did to Alive in America. No warts there.
(I guess I have to say that the previous post is not mine, just to get it out of the way.)
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 11:34:17 ET
Posted by: Angel-girl, Milwaukee, WI
Hey, here comes a virgin post! Been hangin' on the quiet side since 1993. Ooops, that's right I did post in 1993, with the "to lazy to use the <Shift> key, ALL CAPS, and was quickly and kindly told that I was yelling. Anyway, I've been listening to EMG like over 'n over, I just can't seem to fit anything else in the drive. Each time I do I end up putting on EMG again. I have a tax business in my home and by the time my clients leave, they know all the words to all the songs. I've been postulating about "Godwhacker" and I'm thinking it's about the many gruesome, horrible things that a Higher Power or God has allowed to occur over the ages. Including sexual abuse, genocide, and "crimes beyond imagining". Anyway, it's an awesome number, especially Ted's Wurlitzer. And ya gotta laugh at the line, "Give the man some whacking space", Every time I hear that I can NOT vision the Donald doing it on stage! You know the "animated" character he.
Now that I've posted I'll try to continue posting my trivial musings to bore and annoy as much as possible.
Later,
Angel-girl
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 10:42:36 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
5 yard penalty for Illegal Procedure, 12 snails on the field. Repeat 3rd down.
Date: Wed, March 16, 2005, 02:58:05 ET
Posted by: moray eel,
Grainy pic of Fagen coaching snail football @ df.com.
Seems normal, no?
m.e.
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 22:52:35 ET
Posted by: Fagen Audio Crack Whore,
PQ: They are if you're 87!
Rajah: A bit of Wynton up their bums, eh? How ironic from a (once) vital form of music which struggled for respect from the "Longhairs" until the famous Benny Goodman orchestra concert in Carnegie Hall, featuring Lionel Hampton, continues to lose touch. Jazz became "legit" and broke the color barrier all in the same night way back when...
...I mean if we were talking about errrr... Foghat instead of Dan...
...turn that jungle music down, just until we're out of town...
Finally saw the FedEx ad waiting at the pharmacy while they were screwing up my daughter's Rx
"Now let's get this straight. Steely Dan is not one person. It's 'fringe benefits,' not French benfits..." amusing
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 19:23:15 ET
Posted by: hoops,
I finally got a chance to play the official version of Piano Jazz with Steely Dan. Not to take away from all the effort a few us went through to get this recorded a couple of years ago, but this sounds just incredible compared to all of those recording from the streaming audio, etc. Worth getting—Sounds awesome!!!
jim
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 16:35:00 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Raj you're touching on issues that perhaps go beyond the music itself, issues of Public Relations, Marketing, Etc., that are germaine to the topic but not necessarily germaine to discussion here and now. They are very legitimate issues though, IMHO.
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 14:33:11 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Hoopsie, Steely Dan gets it from both the rock gearheads AND the jazz purists. I remember at the Victor Feldman tribute at the Union hall here in Hollywood last summer, the room was packed with the old session players and our MC was listing VC's credits including his work with Steely Dan. There was an audible guffaw when the Dan was mentioned. It kinda shocked me, I thought if any group of people would get SD, they would. Oh, they knew who they were alright, and grudgingly acknowledged as much by their reaction.
Then we have the headbangers of moron-rock, the George Carlin set (remember him dissing them in that HBO special?) who go around deriding the Two because it's yuppie-rock, elevator music, blah blah blah.
People stuck in their bags or just with impossibly narrow and rigid musical tastes never ever get it. Steely Dan are the band people love to hate, a sure sign of the strength of their vision.
The best quote Donald ever gave was on Taxicab Confessions when the driver-lady says how great it must be recognized by your peers at the Grammies and our boy shoots back, "I don't trust my peers, actually."
You go Donald, fuck em and the horse they rode in on, as my sainted Grandmother used to say.
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 13:52:26 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Picked up Piano Jazz with SDon the way to work this morning. I was standing on the subway platform, madly tearing the wrapper and scanning the liner notes.
First of all, thanks for the links and news stories, Daddy G and others. I have to print them out and read them on the train on the way home tonight.
Some interesting information is in the package. For one, it lists the exact date of the recording as July 23, 2002. (Wow! Almost THREE years ago!) And then there is an essay by Josef Woodward who writes for the "L.A. Times," "Downbeat," etc.
The essay has interview bits with Marian as well as Chris Potter, but no new comments from Becker or Fagen. In fact, doesn't list SD as being courtesy of any specific labelnor does it credit any of the usual SD-connected professional associated with post-show transfer to CD. Not even a photo of Becker and Fagen. I was hoping for pic showing the four of them performing. Another thing I was looking for was whether or not SD was signed to any label at this time, and it appears that is not the case. No note like, "Steely Dan appears courtesy of..."
Woodward's essay does talk about how some jazz DJ's sniffed at Steely Dan being on the show but then the essay goes on to point out how Charlap, Phil Woods, Wayne Shorter, etc appeared on their albums. Also says Marian McPartland was aware of SD as a fan during SD's "halcyon days in the 70s" but, thanks to her nephew playing "The Nightfly" for her, she really became a fan. She also loves "Two Against Nature." Later in the writing Woodward describes "Kathy Lied" as "unfairly overlooked" and it also points out how SD didn't use the PJ appearance to hype EMG. I think the only omission in the essay is how **Donald** managed to stump Marian McPartland on a couple of **his** choices for songs.
Also, the two CD set Marian McPartland's "85 Candles—Live in New York" was indeed released today and I have purchased it. Haven't had a chance to listen but it features Chris Potter, Bill Charlap, Phil Woods, Jim Hall, Roy Hargrove, Regina Carter and many others.
Regarding Marian's "Looking to the future a well as the past" comment, I take it as running the gammut. A couple of weekends ago on Chicago Public Radio, Marian's guest on "Piano Jazz" was Conn.-based pianist Noah Baerman who is 27 or 28. MP has had Norah Jones on a couple of times and Alicia Keys has been a guest. I don't think Alicia Keys and Marian McPartland had the best chemistry on that show; yet, AK went up a few notches in my book because of her performance. Anyhow, this question of some Jazzers wondering why MM would feature Steely Dan on her show is a major theme of the Woodward essay. I didn't realize it was that big of a deal since I consider Steely Dan as the gateway to Jazz for me. I don't think Rock critics fully "get" Steely Dan until they appreciate their Jazz roots and influences. That's what pisses me off about Derogatis and Kot who are the rock critics for the Chicago Sun-Times and Chicago Tribune, respectively. They have a radio show on WXRT in Chicago (93.1 FM, the local station that has sponsored some of SD's Chicago shows) where they review new music sorta like Ebert and Roeper. And they have come out and said they know next to nothing about Jazz; yet they diss SD's new stuff just casually listening to it. At the same time, the local Jazz critics in the same newspapers wrote a couple of articles dissing Blue Note for signing Van Morrison, totally inappropriate when one considers VM's Jazz influences as well as his varous jazz-tinged classics and his two Verve albums, "How Long Has This Been Going On" (taped at Ronnie Scott's) and "Tell Me Something" (the latter is a tribute to Mose Allison that features the involvement of Mose himself.) And then there is the folk-jazz classic, "Astral Weeks." Well, I guess you get how I feel...
So I hope you will get out and support the Dan by getting the official release of "Piano Jazz."
Thanks again for the article links, etc. Will keep checking between classes.
jim
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 12:53:40 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
G - no, because the kids are fresh and vital.
Surely you can appreciate that a real acoustic jazz purist (of which I am not one) could name about 5,000 pianists they'd rather hear than Donald Fagen??
Years ago, till 1993, there was a syndicated show from Wayne State called The Evolution Of Jazz, hosted by The Jazz Legend Ed Love. I remember on many stations it played before or after McPartland's show. What a contrast. What a difference of educational approach.
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 12:17:55 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ
"...8 year old kids playing Bach sonatas - that's looking to the future." -- PQ
Yeah, because Bach's one of those fresh new jazz composers just escaped from the mean streets of Medicine Park, right? :-)
...And I know a 5 year old who plays a mean "Mary Had A Little Lamb" and "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star." :-)
Seriously, I think maybe you're being a little too picky/literal, PQ. I mean Ms. McPartland was speaking off-the-cuff in an interview (I assume) and threw out the phrase about "looking to the future." I believe her primary focus at that point was addressing the "fuddy-duddies" who complain when she has non-traditional jazz guests on her show and more specifically those station managers/programmers who refuse to air those shows. She threw out the names she did as noted examples of such, that's all, and then tacked on the "looking to the future" comment which I interpreted more in the vein of "let's not be so rigid in our definitions of what is or is not jazz."
I'm sure there are many new "cutting edge" artists worthy of featuring and many shows in various areas that DO feature them, but she was only talking about her own show and some of the specific instances when there's been some issue with her guests.
But what do I know, that's just how I took it.
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 12:04:05 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A
Mindy Jostyn appeared occasionally as part of the guest band on The Food Channel, of all places, that Emeril guy with the terrible grammar, and was billed as, "The Jammin Queen." The players no longer with us from the hundreds of Steely Dan session musicians would comprise a formidable band. RIP, Jammin Queen.
The man who wrote "Hesitation Blues," (originally, Hesitating Blues) which appears on the Piano Jazz CD out today was the legendary W.C. Handy and his life story reads like a history of America at the turn of the 20th Century. Here's a couple snippets from the man posterity has come to label, the Father of the Blues:
"Each one of my blues is based on some old Negro song of the South....Something that sticks in my mind, that I hum to myself when I'm not thinking about it. Some old song that is a part of the memories of my childhood and of my race. I can tell you the exact song I used as a basis for any one of my blues."
...more
"As I was walking down Beale Street one night, my attention was caught by the sound of a piano. The insistent Negro rhythms were broken by a tinkle in the treble, then by a rumble in the bass; then they came together. I entered the cheap cafe and found a colored man at the piano, dog tired. He told me he had to play from seven at night until seven in the morning, and rested himself with alternate hands. He told me of his life, and it seemed to me that this poor, tired, happy-go-lucky musician represented his race. I set it down in notes, keeping faith with all that made the background of that poor piano thumper."
...and with your kind indulgence, here's a quote from Handy about trying to market his tunes to publishers and retailers, the man he's referring to was a major retailer circa 1912-1915, and its subtext a forshadowing of the shape of things to come in American music:
"At the time I approached him his windows were displaying "At The Ball" by J. Lubrie Hill, a colored composer who had gone to New York from Memphis some time earlier. Around it were grouped copies of recent successes by such Negro composers as Cole and Johnson, Scott Joplin, and the Williams and Walker musical comedies. So when he suggested that his trade wouldn't stand for his selling my work, I pointed out as tactfully as I could that the majority of his musical hits of the moment had come from the Gotham-Attucks Co., a firm of Negro publishers in New York. I'll never forget his smile. "Yes," he said pleasantly. "I know that--but my customers don't."
Donald's performance of "Hesitation Blues" on the Piano Jazz album is for me the jewel of this record, his laconic piano stokes, that forlorn quality in his vocal performance, a peek back up the tracks of the new music from 100 years ago. I've loved this cut so much over the past couple years. It's a reminder of the breadth of Donald's musical acumen and how deep into the roots of the great American songbook he has gone and with what polished artistry and mature feeling he brings to it.
Here's the lyrics to what was known as WC Handy's, "Hesitating Blues" believed to have been written in 1912, (followed by a brief literary criticism by somebody, an historical perspective) and as it was performed by Louis Armstrong and Velma Middleton around 1923:
(Louis) Hello Central,
What's the matter with this line?
I wanna talk to that high brown of mine
Tell me how long
Will I have to wait
Please give me two ninety-eight
Why do you hesitate?
Oh, what you say,
Can't talk to my brown
A storm last night blowed the wires all down
Now, tell me how long
Will I have to wait
Oh, won't you tell me now
Why do you hesitate?
(Instrumental break)
(Velma) Say, Sunday night
My beau proposed to me
Said he'd be happy if his wife I be
Said he, "how long,
Baby, will I have to wait?
Come be my wife, my Kate
Why do you hesitate?"
Say, I declined him
It was just for a stall
He left that night on the cannonball
Honey, oh honey, how long
Will I have to wait?
Oh, won't you tell me now
Baby, why do you hesitate?
"On the surface, "Hesitating Blues" appears to be a very benign and jovial song, engaging with the simple and sentimental theme of the impatience of lovers when they are separated from or unable to possess the subject of their affection for even a short period of time. However, themes of hesitation and waiting and phrases such as "tell me how long will I have to wait" carry a great deal of meaning and significance within the context of African-American culture and history. The genealogy of these themes and phrases stretches all the way back to the era of slavery in the United States. Black slaves, working in the fields on plantations in the south, would often engage in call and response singing to help pass the time and to distract themselves, however briefly, from the bleak and nearly hopeless circumstances of their lives. These "slave songs" frequently repeated phrases such as "how long will I have to wait" in reference to the seemingly impossible dream of someday being free. After slavery was abolished, however, themes of hesitation and waiting continued to appear constantly in African-American fiction and music, including blues, for the spectre of slavery had merely been replaced by that of racial discrimination and segregation. Now, African-Americans were "waiting" for an end to the poverty and racism that darkened their lives, to be recognized as equals, and to be able to enjoy all of the simple pleasures and luxuries, such as liberty and justice, that were readily afforded to white people."
This album out today is a great gift to all us insatiable and borderline squirrley Steely Dan people, God help us, and with Marian's presence, a living symbol of our heritage, it's an historical document really, and something I'll keep close to me for a long time.
So dial up 2-9-8, don't you hesitate.
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 11:49:14 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., Musical trivia
A couple of trivial music-related (though non-musical and non-Dan) items I stumbled across this morning:
______________________________________________________________________
A little side news brief note at http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/ says....
"The Who's Roger Daltrey has joined the cast of The WB's untitled mermaid drama pilot from Spelling TV, about a mermaid (Nathalie Kelley) who tries life on land in Miami, according to The Hollywood Reporter."
______________________________________________________________________
Then there's this review of a science fiction novel....
The Meq, by Steve Cash
Reviewed by Cynthia Ward
http://www.scifi.com/sfw/current/books2.html
That site does two book reviews a week. After each review the reviewer posts a short blurb with some brief commentary, sort of a quickie overall impression of the work or something he/she feels is worth mentioning that didn't fit in the review.
I didn't recognize the author of the book, but Ms. Ward's blurb is this....
"Steve Cash is a new novelist, but you're probably already familiar with his writing. As a member of 1970s country-rock band The Ozark Mountain Daredevils, he co-authored their hit songs "Jackie Blue" and "If You Wanna Get to Heaven." —Cynthia
I just found it mildly curious. I also can't help but wonder if maybe our Donald, when he's ready to give up his fleeting stab at music, might try his hand at authoring an SF book or two since he's known to enjoy the genre. :-)
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 11:42:37 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Would that she practice what she preaches and *really* look to the future. Boz Scaggs is the future? Come on. All the artists she named there are as much in the past as Jelly Roll Morton or Blind Lemon Jefferson. There's a show on IPR called From The Top where they have 8 year old kids playing Bach sonatas - that's looking to the future. Musicians in their 50s are not the future.
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 11:36:42 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., I've got plenty of java and Chesterfield Kings…
Very nice piece on Marian McPartland in the Philly Daily News, a little more extensive than most I've seen....
JAZZ'S FEISTY GRANDE DAME
At 87, Marian McPartland isn't shy about speaking her mind
by Jonathan Takiff
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/living/11139411.htm
[ 'THEY'RE OLD fuddy-duddies, old farts," grumbled Marian McPartland, speaking about the jazz radio programmers who dare to tamper with her widely syndicated and much loved radio show, "Piano Jazz."
"When I bring on someone who's jazz influenced but out of the traditional realm - a Boz Scaggs, Bela Fleck, Bruce Hornsby or Steely Dan - these bastards refuse to run the episode. Can you imagine, they sit around all day, taking meetings, worrying about these things? I think it's important to stretch the boundaries a bit, not just be conservative and predictable, doing a Tony Bennett one week and an old-line trumpeter the next week. You have to keep looking to the future, not just to the past."
So maybe this is not the sort of chatter one might expect to hear out of a properly raised Englishwoman and grande dame of the jazz scene, a creative soul who's about to celebrate - if you can believe it - her 87th birthday.
But it's exactly the sort of talk and thinking that keeps Marian McPartland feisty and inquisitive and playing with panache, smartly attuned to the times "and as busy as I've ever been."
.... ]
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 10:29:43 ET
Posted by: Seth,
Boston Rag..Mindy died of cancer.
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 07:51:20 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Funny nevertheless.
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 06:42:15 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, .
Paul - that picture was the Downbeat magazine cover phoro of two years ago.
Wow - I'm in shock over Mindy Jostyn. She's played a small local Performing Arts Center a couple of times in the past two years. I missed her both times and was checking their schedule off and on with the intention of going to the show. She's worked a lot with and was a good friend of Carly Simon. Nothing on Carly's site yet.
Mark in Boston
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 01:41:27 ET
Posted by: Seth,
Daddy G. Thanks. I thought it would be a new picture. I've seen that one a hundred times.
Date: Tues, March 15, 2005, 00:04:59 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., Where are you drivin' midnight cruiser?
Seth, the D&W pic can be found with the Billboard article at the link Hoops posted....
http://www.billboard.com/bb/daily/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000799075
Or here you'll find just the pic by itself....
http://www.billboard.com/billboard/photos/artists/steely-dan3.gif
Date: Mon, March 14, 2005, 23:49:40 ET
Posted by: Seth,
Paul...Where do I find that picture in Billboard?
Date: Mon, March 14, 2005, 20:09:21 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Wow, the picture of SD from billboard.com makes Fagen look like an evil funeral director.
Date: Mon, March 14, 2005, 19:44:29 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Just a heads up that we get a lot more guests posting when something new comes out. Roll out the welcome mat and roll up the foghat;
Been googling all over about the McPartland/Steely Dan album out tomorrow.
Billhttp://www.billboard.com/bb/daily/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000799075 Looks as if the 85th Birthday tribute featuring, among many others, Chris Potter has been rolled back.
Here's the link to the "Jazz Times" article posted some weeks back:
http://jazztimes.com/columns_and_features/news/detail.cfm?article=10337
I know that many of us have the CD already, having recorded it off the air to CD, but it sure would help the Dan to get out and get it as a show of support. I plan to buy a few copies. Also: Thanks for all the links, especially the NJ link from Daddy G.
Another one, thanks Swami!
http://www.masslive.com/ohare/republican/index.ssf?/base/entertainment-0/1110617278199910.xml
"Marian McPartland and Steely Dan "Marian McPartland's Piano Jazz
With Guest Steely Dan" (Concord) FOUR STARS By Kevin O"Hare.
According to her official bio, she'll turn 87 this month. That is
why pianist Marian McPartland is affectionately and quite appropriately
referred to as the grand dame of jazz.
For more than 25 years she has hosted National Public Radio's "Piano
Jazz," talking - and playing - with everyone from Bill Evans and Benny
Carter to Dizzy Gillespie and Teddy Wilson.
Her amazing life is being celebrated by her longtime record label
Concord with the release of two albums. One chronicles her 85th birthday
celebration at New York's Birdland Club. And this one, recorded in February
2003, features an unforgettable "Piano Jazz" program in which McPartland
hosted Steely Dan.
Ever unpredictable and typically irreverent Steely Dan cohorts
Donald Fagen and Walter Becker are on best behavior with McPartland, as they
discuss their own jazz influences, while the host entertains them with tales
such as when she met Louis Armstrong in a New York club in 1945.
With McPartland joining them on piano, Becker, Fagen and a small
band also run through several Steely Dan favorites including "Chain
Lightning," "Black Friday" and "Josie," while also offering rarities like
W.C. Handy's "Hesitation Blues" and "Things Ain't What They Used to Be,"
which was popularized by Duke Ellington."
Nothing about Mindy's passing at MindyJostyn.com
Thanks for all the well-wishes while I've been sick.
jim
Date: Mon, March 14, 2005, 19:18:16 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Received word at the Digest that Mindy Jostyn passed away; What a shocker! It seems just like yeterday that she was playing violin during "Deacon Blues" on the New York Rock and Soul Revue tour in 1992. Was amazing...
http://www.katetaylor.com/notes.html
Date: Mon, March 14, 2005, 18:33:57 ET
Posted by: Billboard Charts, Billboard Top 40
Foghat had 5 top 40 hits between 1976 and 1979 Slow Ride, Drivin Wheel, I Just Want To Make Love to You, Stone Blue and Third Time Lucky. Of course, this does not account for "FM hits" like Fool for the City, Take Me To The River or Sweet Home Chicago or Honey Hush.
Date: Mon, March 14, 2005, 17:29:48 ET
Posted by: Rajah, merkin all a-quivvver
I like the game very much, Paul.
Phogg-Fest @ Paladino's? No, we'd have to have it up in Contraband County. We could rent mullets and tool up to the fairgrounds in my crystal-meth Winebago lab.
VERY LAST FOGHAT JOKE:
Most absurd album title ever - -
"Foghat - The Hits."
Date: Mon, March 14, 2005, 14:29:53 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Steely Dan Clip Contest interval 5 has been up since yesterday and nobody has guessed. I know it's _not_ because it's difficult, because it by far is not. Lack of interest perhaps? I've set up a sort of "high score" chart that winners can accumulate points in, but that probably isn't incentive enough. Should I just dump the idea?
Date: Mon, March 14, 2005, 12:43:49 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
PQ, if you really do come out this way please drop me a line. I'm sure between me and the other SoCallers who populate the Blue we can give a few pointers! Not that you need them with your connections ;-) It's been awhile (Staind rocks) since we've had a Danfest here in the Western World. If we have visitors from points east and north, perhaps it would be time to organize something. I could talk to Paladinos!
Date: Mon, March 14, 2005, 11:43:04 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
I think I'm gonna catch that Foghat show Pink, I'll be out west alot in June.
Date: Mon, March 14, 2005, 11:10:37 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A
Damn, cancel Xmas mother-f'ers and hand me down my control-top tighty-whities before I poop in my bicycle pants up in here, it's duh Fuh-Fuh-F-O-G-H-A-T...whewwwwwww!!!!!!!!
Chateau LaFitte '59 Rajah
Date: Mon, March 14, 2005, 09:44:08 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons island
Doc Kelly - for the love of God man! Please - give us more!
Date: Mon, March 14, 2005, 00:20:17 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Happy Pi die everybody! It's time to give homage to that wonderful mathematical constant that makes all our lives so much easier.
Date: Sun, March 13, 2005, 23:43:15 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
This just in:
Friday, June 24th
FOGHAT
Contra Costa County Fair, Antioch
www.ccfair.com
Date: Sun, March 13, 2005, 23:21:59 ET
Posted by: Doc Kelly, Here at the Dude Ranch
Pat's concert last night in KC was magnificent!!!
Date: Sun, March 13, 2005, 20:33:46 ET
Posted by: David Duvel, London, UK
quirky :-)
Date: Sun, March 13, 2005, 12:55:27 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., If you listen you can hear it....
Despite the title, a good review of the Steely Dan / Marian McPartland CD....
BUT IS IT JAZZ?
by Bradley Bambarger, Star-Ledger (NJ) staff
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/ledger/index.ssf?/base/entertainment-2/1110693318216860.xml
______________________________________________________________________
I never heard of "Blender" magazine, but this blog entry review of it just came up on a "Steely Dan" search of Google News this morning. Don't know why since the entry is apparently from September 10, 2002....
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2002/09/10/141930.php
The only real point of interest was the following:
"Blender's willingness to educate its readership on the classic albums of the past seems to be a rare example of a 'lad mag' attempting to do good by stealth (this issue's spread on the oeuvre of Steely Dan is a case in point)."
I have no idea what the Steely content was like. Anyone know anything of it or if it can be found online?
Date: Sun, March 13, 2005, 12:18:36 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
This month I will have seen Oz Noy w. 3 different drummers, Anton Fig, Jeff "Tain" Watts, and Keith Carlock, all with James Genus on bass. Unreal. If Oz's new CD are the songs he's been playing at these shows it's going to be among the best of the year, fer sure.
I loved the Jackets when it was Marc Russo on sax and Will Kennedy, the album that began with ...And You Know That! -wow.
Chrysler - Evans is just as strong a composer as Randy. His album The Alternative Man from 1985 is such powerful music it's like it came here from another galaxy. His album Escape from 1995 is so innovative and willing to risks almost everything else I can think of seems paltry by comparison, except maybe a few by Bill Laswell or maybe Jim Beard. (Or I guess Greg Osby too.)
Date: Sun, March 13, 2005, 12:14:00 ET
Posted by: FACW,
forgot to mention Village Gait is a nice "contemporary jazz" track and the title track could have come from one of Tony Wiliams' mid-70s fusion albums.
Date: Sun, March 13, 2005, 11:59:25 ET
Posted by: Fagen Audio Crack Whore,
I think any Dan-fan or Fagen fan will dig the recent YellowJackets' offering "Time Squared." They've gotten a bit out of their straightjacket. Go Go could easily be an instrumental on any Fagen album. Monk's Habit and My 1st Best Friend have real bop/cool jazz roots. The remainder mines heavily into Weather Report and Branford Marsalis - like cool jazz areas. I think it's a step up. New drummer Marcus Baylor has a deep Tain Watts groovy dynamic.
Date: Sun, March 13, 2005, 11:05:44 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Steely Dan Clip Contest #5 is up. This one's easy.
Date: Sun, March 13, 2005, 10:36:01 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons island
Chrysler - do you have the Jackets' "Mint Jam"? A fantastic live cd by the group. There current drummer (for the last 4 or 5 years I think) Marcus Baylor is a definitive badass!! They're definitely not smooth jazz. Hell, Metheny gets tagged with that one sometimes as well. While I guess he has some tunes that certainly get their fair share on the smooth jazz stations, anyone who's familiar with his catalog is damn sure not going to label him with that! Same goes for the Jackets. Our boys get tend to get tagged with it sometimes. I've about decided it's a label fit for Kenny G, and Kenny G only!
Date: Sun, March 13, 2005, 08:35:22 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
Yes, can't friggin' wait for that Brecker/Evans CD. I hope to hear a bunch of new tunes in addition to the inevitable old ones. Randy is one of the top-tier composers of post-bop/fusion, for decades now.
Don't disparage the 'Jackets, now-- boggles my mind so many people think they're "smooth jazz" or "jazz lite." They're WAY beyond that these days, have been since THE SPIN fifteen years ago. Ferrante and Mintzer are compositional wizards. DF must think so, too--check out the "Thanks to . . ." list on THE SPIN. Fagen knows a fellow harmonic genius when he hears one.
Speaking of genius, yes, that's what Jean Shepherd was, beyond doubt.
Date: Sun, March 13, 2005, 08:35:09 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
Yes, can't friggin' wait for that Brecker/Evans CD. I hope to hear a bunch of new tunes in addition to the inevitable old ones. Randy is one of the top-tier composers of post-bop/fusion, for decades now.
Don't disparage the 'Jackets, now-- boggles my mind so many people think they're "smooth jazz" or "jazz lite." They're WAY beyond that these days, have been since THE SPIN fifteen years ago. Ferrante and Mintzer are compositional wizards. DF must think so, too--check out the "Thanks to . . ." list on THE SPIN. Fagen knows a fellow harmonic genius when he hears one.
Speaking of genius, yes, that's what Jean Shepherd was, beyond doubt.
Date: Sat, March 12, 2005, 22:23:39 ET
Posted by: angel,
Daddy G: Jean Shepherd wrote "The Great American Fourth of July and Other Disasters" An adaptation aired in 1982 on TV. I totally loved it. Fagen enjoying his work, does not suprise me at all.
Date: Sat, March 12, 2005, 15:42:03 ET
Posted by: PQ, Brooklyn
Chrysler...what a fucking band that is on that CD! Besides Evans and Brecker, David Kikoski on keyboards, Hiram Bullock guitars, Victor Bailey bass, Steve Smith drums. Yawzer!!
Date: Sat, March 12, 2005, 13:20:19 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., Meet me at Mr. Chow's....
Just a quick followup to my previous post....
From http://www.thattechnicalbookstore.com/b1557836000.htm Booklist reviews had this to say about Jean Shepherd and the book:
"These days, Jean Shepherd (1921-99), radio raconteur, social commentator, and author, is best known as the narrator of the perennially favorite holiday film 'A Christmas Story'. But to his hardcore fans he was a pied piper of the radio waves—-a nighttime voice that took them beyond their mundane realities by revealing how interesting the mundane can be. Shepherd broadcast almost nightly from 1955 to 1977 on WOR in New York City, gaining a cult following among the small community of insomniacs he dubbed the 'night people.' Although the author reveals himself as one of Shepherd's fans and this book as a labor of love—-the title itself is a phrase Shepherd urged his fans to invoke—-he makes no effort to hide his subject's faults. Bergmann points out that Shepherd's so-called nostalgia was actually antinostalgia: the painful memories of childhood and young adulthood are carefully masked by a fine midwestern sense of humor. A true storyteller and monologist—-and a prickly genius. ((Reviewed March 1, 2005))"
Date: Sat, March 12, 2005, 12:49:56 ET
Posted by: Daddy G.,
Last line of Donald Fagen's bio: "As Jean Shepherd used to say: Excelsior!"
Googled this up this morning:
Book review of....
'Excelsior, You Fathead!: The Art and Enigma of Jean Shepherd'
by Eugene B. Bergmann
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=reviewsNews&storyID=7883614
Reviewer Gregory McNamee writes....
"Jean Shepherd might not have been a people person, but he was plenty influential in his day, and he knew it. Zippy the Pinhead creator Bill Griffith, Steely Dan mastermind Donald Fagen, and even national poet laureate Billy Collins have acknowledged a debt to him."
Date: Sat, March 12, 2005, 12:22:10 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Chrysler - What a band the Brecker-Evans Soulbop band was. That record's going to be a mother. Hope they include one of those hilarious Randy Brecker vocal jobs on the disc!
Date: Sat, March 12, 2005, 11:14:32 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons island
Chrysler - thanks for the update! Not familiar at all with the Randy Brecker project you mentioned.
Metheny in 8 days!! I'm starting to pace around already.
Date: Sat, March 12, 2005, 08:57:05 ET
Posted by: I Drove The Chrysler, PA
PQ, Josey, all other jazz cats:
March 22: ALTERED STATE, Yellowjackets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 28: Randy Brecker/Bill Evans Soulbop Band Live!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
????????: Donald Fagen, ?????????????
Date: Sat, March 12, 2005, 01:15:15 ET
Posted by: bwaySteve, music day
SQ
Caught your post of a while back about the speakers.Both the ones you mentioned are very popular now. Seems like everyone's coming out with monitors at that price point.I have heard those you'd mentioned but you have to hear them playing your stuff in your room.Most outlets will let you exchange for others.
feel free to message me
Date: Fri, March 11, 2005, 21:56:08 ET
Posted by: ss, hk
Nice pix, JT. Thanks for those.
DF at the piano -- wish it happened more often.
Date: Fri, March 11, 2005, 20:53:06 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ
Great pics, JT! Thanks a bunch!
Glad you're feeling better, Hoops! Thanks for passing along the info and linking to the pics.
Date: Fri, March 11, 2005, 20:14:30 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Yet another Dandom Digest has been sent, this time covering March 4-11, 2005.
If you are a subscriber, you should see it in your email box within the next 12 hours. If you don't receive it, please email me. Again, the main reason I am in the habit of announcing this here is because some people have been having problems with delivery of the Dandom Digest, usually because of spam filters, firewalls, etc.
The following are the subjects of this particular edition of the Dandom Digest:
— Saturday Night with DF, TR, et al: "a "terzo mundo" of an entirely different sort" (a link to photos accompanies this story)
— Mixmaster E.S. presented TEC Award by Walter
— "Piano Jazz" CD Coming Tuesday
— Do It Again - hr Big Band Plays Three Decades of Steely Dan
— Yellow Peril CD
— REDUX: Steely Dan and the Rolling Stone Poll
— RE: Rolling Stone
— Re: Rolling Stone Top 500 Albums
— RE: Steely Dan and the Rolling Stone Poll
— Black Album
— Unreleased material, Jack of speed, et Nostalgia
— Solos: Me... opinionated??
— Best guitar solo
— Walter's solo on Bad Sneakers
— Solos
If you are not currently a subscriber but would like to receive the free Dandom Digest email newsletter (definitely not to be confused with the glorious Official steelydan.com or Official donaldfagen.com newsletters/mail lists), please email me or see http://www.dandom.com/dandomdigest
jim
Date: Fri, March 11, 2005, 19:18:29 ET
Posted by: Aja, up on the hill
Is that THE Geoff, as in Hat2flat?
The gig is March 25. www.steelydamned.com
Aja
Date: Fri, March 11, 2005, 18:34:36 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Thanks a thousand times and more to Justin Thyme who submitted the tremendous account of last Saturday night's gig with Donald Fagen, Todd & Michelle Rundgren, Toni Childs and friends for the Dandom Digest. Justin also wanted to include his photos. He passes along that while they are far from perfect, he also hopes they will give you a buzz in the same way the show definitely gave him one.
I put Justin's great photos up for us fellow Danizens to view at http://dandom.com/justinthymekula.
Thanks also to all the kind emails since I've been sick. Feeling a little better today (hence how I got the photos up.) I'll get back to your emails in little while.
jim
Date: Fri, March 11, 2005, 10:18:08 ET
Posted by: YGK, My Square Head
Hey Aja - I will write - check your mail.......
Date: Fri, March 11, 2005, 07:13:31 ET
Posted by: Geoff, Ottawa
Aja, when's that SD'ed gig you mentioned?
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 23:30:42 ET
Posted by: SouthOfHollywood, Laughing out loud...
Not sure if any of you are "West Wing" junkies like me but while watching the Tivo of last night's episode, Donatella Moss makes the comment to the press pool that Presidential candidate Hoines is cancelling his California events "like a Foghat reunion tour"...
SOH
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 22:21:22 ET
Posted by: bwaySteve, Doin' the frigid hula in Times Sq
Thanks jt for that very intimate and informative recollection.
perfect...
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 19:29:44 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Clip contest interation 4 is now up. http://paulygon.net, good luck!
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 19:27:34 ET
Posted by: Woody, Ottawa
Thanks for the plug fife.
Yep it's true. All you yanks can come up to Canada and have your country's leader promote rock acts. It's why we pay the big tax $$$$. The P.M. apparently called the Bono-one himself and pleaded for a concert. Bono relented and now I get to listen to the Edge sing "The Fly". I'm Irish-Canadian. Proud of my heritage too (St. Patty's Day is comin up after all). But U2 lost me after Achtung. Sure I listen to what they put out, but that's simply being curious. At one time during the mid to late 80's my impression was that U2 were going to save all of us Rock n Roll fans from the corp-crap we were subjected too. I do not list them as saviours anymore.
Now if I can only convince the P.M. to call Hawaii?
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 19:12:58 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., Close your eyes and you'll be there....
Wow, JT, that's the info we've all be salivating for! Thanks! Great to hear some news, any news at all. I'm sure everyone here wishes they coulda been there, I certainly do. :-)
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 19:08:00 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., Could you live forever?....
Another 50-year remembrance piece on Charlie Parker....
Jazz history lesson: Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker
PARKER THE SELF-DESTRUCTIVE JAZZ HERO STILL WIELDS INFLUENCE 50 YEARS ON
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=199266&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__international_news/
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 19:05:39 ET
Posted by: Justin Thyme,
Hoops,
I'm back home on Windward O'ahu, noodling on the GigaStudio and poking at this PC keyboard after spending an enjoyable 30 hours on Kaua'i's North Shore (where the winter waves are POUNDING!) I should be remixing some tracks, but I'd rather post this to you instead.
This isn't meant to be a set-list (we were too "happy" for clear morning-after memories, and besides, nobody had anything to write on); it's more an experiential loose-memory gestalt.
The DF/TR performance at the Princeville Resort was lots more of an impromtu jam than a rehearsed gig -- but it was terrific nonetheless, despite mediocre sound engineering in an acoustically-challenged hotel ballroom venue. (The sound engineering problems were understandable, as there was no time for a decent sound check.) Keep in mind that this was an "hometown" fundraiser, after all, for a small private school -- yes, the hometown was North Shore Kaua'i, and the entertainers were local residents despite their celebrity -- but it was a fundraiser jam at its core.
Michele (Grey) Rundgren, whose youngest son is a student at the school, auctioneered vintage guitars, ukuleles, and clothing. Then she emceed wonderfully, and afterwards settled comfortably into her former persona as a sexy back-up singer. (She's still plenty sexy, and she can still sing her ass off!) And if you haven't seen her DVD, "NC-17 From a 34-C," then you haven't yet appreciated the best of the North Shore Kaua'ian rocker-comediennes (her day-job band is called the "North Shore Sluts."). Take a look at www.michelerundgren.com .
New Grammy-winner Ken Emerson from Kalihiwai and the ever-wonderful Toni Childs opened (in that order) with solid performances, especially Toni's one-day-old untitled composition than brought tears to my eyes and chickenskin (a/k/a goosebumps) to my arms and neck. (I believe she's due for and verging on a comeback, mark me.)
Then Todd Rundgren appeared and rocked the Kaua'i Kasbah with perennials (such as "I Saw The Light" and "Hello It's Me" with bossa styling, a la "With A Twist"). Todd also ventured into his newest work with "Soul Brother,” from his recent and excellent "Liars" album. His performance high point was the classic medley from "A Wizard A True Star" ("I'm So Proud/Ooh Baby Baby/La la Means I Love You," but sans "Cool Jerk"). Todd was in fine voice, dressed to kill, and very much at home.
Our hero DF appeared and played an acoustic grand piano (I lamented the absence of a Rhodes and wished I had shipped one of mine over). The high-point of his too-brief performance was "Third World Man" (performed in a "terzo mundo" of an entirely different sort), followed by "Black Friday." These selections were interspersed with some straight-ahead bluesy 50's rock'n'roll stuff ("Lucille," for example) on which Donald gleamed while grasping (successfully) to find some common musical ground with musicians who had barely rehearsed together and who didn't know much of anything about Donald's material. Todd's and Donald's voices blended surprisingly well in duets. The show closed with "Bang on the Drum All Day" with Toni belting it out like Janis Joplin, Todd wailing as only he can, and Donald high-harmonizing while he savaged the keyboard. Predictably, the crown was up on its feet, roaring along with the chorus. Then lights up, and exit into the flower-scented tropical evening.
Altogether a most unusual and satisfying evening on Hanalei Bay.
Aloha,
--jt
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 17:44:32 ET
Posted by: Aja, up on the hill
"bouncing off the bottom" trying to grab a branch that won't break..........
Wow, that's good. Just think of all the great blues tunes you're gonna write after this experience! BTW, still loving every minute of "Tryin' to Sort It All Out."
Aja
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 15:15:25 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
W1P:
I've posted the dates as you suggested.
Hope the format etc is OK. Please move adjust etc as needed.
Once again, thanks for that. Much appreciated.
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 14:07:49 ET
Posted by: From Broberg's Site,
Hey 19 or Time Out of Mind.
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 13:58:05 ET
Posted by: CDC 3, Austin
I am looking for a copy of the live recording of Bodisatva that was on the 'B' side of a 45 with ? on the 'A' side.
Anyone?
Thanks!
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 13:45:21 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
W1P:
Will do. Thanks for that. What part of the site do I need to go to to post the Dates? Feel free to email me if you like.
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 12:59:59 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
Bass: I moderate a Pink Floyd Tribute Bands and Covers Forum at Pink Floyd Online. I try to maintain a worldwide schedule of Floyd tribute gigs there. When you get gigs, can you provide the schedule information? Here's the URL http://www.pinkfloydonline.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=78434659314cbf9e2a2d0197790865db;act=SF;f=20
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 12:46:12 ET
Posted by: YGK, nyc
Just wanted to post and say a hello to all the fine folks here.....wow does time fly.....I'm tryin' to get everything together. I've been "bouncing off the bottom" trying to grab a branch that won't break..........
peace
ygk
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 12:15:53 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, snail mail
Just stumbled on this (new?) artifact at DF.com:
http://www.donaldfagen.com/artifacts.html
I haven't seen legs like that since Joe Montana....
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 11:18:26 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Nothing wrong with that, Bassy.
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 07:50:47 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
W1P:
The Boston Rag is actually the guestbook on the Dan Collective website:
www.thedancollective.com
Go to "contact" and "sign in" and you'll be there!!
To cut a very long story (relatively) short, I was the bassist with the Danny Steel Orchestra (10 - 13 piece depending on the gig :-)) which became The Dan Collective (5 piece) and shapeshifted into the current Dan Quartet (voice/fender rhodes&sax&bass&drums) which currently has no web presence and so continues to utilise the Dan Collective site, as above.
I have become involved in a number of other projects recently, one of which is a Floyd tribute (Pynk Floid would you believe? :-)) and we are currently in rehearsal for a number of dates starting in August this year.
I guess that,with a foot in each camp,you and I must be very much kindred spirits. The one thing I have found is that getting the gigs seems infinitely easier for PF than for TDQ. Swimming with the tide I guess?
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 02:07:31 ET
Posted by: Gina, Mahalo Mountain
Well, if anyone wants to know about the Kula Jam and the fundraiser gig you'll have to walk over to the Yellow .......
Date: Thurs, March 10, 2005, 00:52:46 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Email me, honey, I think I gave you and Alan the wrong Missus' email....oops, f'ed up again....
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 15:40:25 ET
Posted by: Aja, up on the hill
Gretchen-e-mailed you but it bounced. Are you thinking of coming down for the Steely Damned show? I may be able to attend the second show, not sure yet. Even if we don't meet up, the location is great-small club on the harbor, great view, very romantic-you two should think about it!
Aja
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 12:14:54 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
Yeah, Paladino's is missable. I posted that info the moment it landed in my inbox. If Lovebob hadn't been run off the Dan forums long ago . . .
Gina, British Boston Rag? Please tell more
It's "tribute" band not "cover" band :-)
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 11:46:09 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, Nottingham UK
China Crisis are still together and touring, as an acoustic duo, in the UK.
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 10:32:36 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo
Anyone know what happened to China Crisis?
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 09:46:44 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
(Link sent) You can actually find out how B and F met through steelydan.com, go to the FAQ/timeline sections.
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 09:40:34 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Major Dude - that was me. The link is Fever Dreams Dot Net, hosted by the one and only Oleander, and the site is experiencing some temporary problems but will be back up soon. Ole is one of the legends of Cyber Dandom, along with Hoops and St Al.
But, if you want to know the categories they are: cars/NYC-LA dichotomy/Christian symbolism/relationships & misogyny/etc.
If you really want to go off the deep end, I have a professional aesthetician who posts with me, named Gunnin, who analyzes Steely Dan recordings in view of the Aesthetic Theory Of Rock & Roll Music from www.reasontorock.com He has concluded that SD is one of the few bands who both does and yet does not conform to the rules laid out in reasontorock.com All this is at www.cultureboutique.com
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 09:19:45 ET
Posted by: Major Dude, before the fall
Paul Please do send that link. You can e-mail it to m, that would be great. Did F and B do anything before "Can't Buy A Thrill"? How did they meet?
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 09:17:02 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Major Dude, interestingly, "Caves of Altimara" was one of Fagen and Becker's orginal demos before Steely Dan was formed. I can send you a link to the original song if you wish.
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 07:47:09 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, Through with Billy
DAMN, Pink! I just changed those west coast plans for the Alamo. I could take a pass on Paladino's, but Bob Tedde on a LONG weekend...a Spring Break Danfest redux?
The wheels start to turn....and we could celebrate St. Al's Rebirth.
Who's in?
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 07:29:07 ET
Posted by: Major Dude, Scar across his face, wearing a hearing aid
Hello friends. I must admit, you guys and gals lose me sometime when you are talking about C notes and the latest Steely Dan Cover Band. I just wanted to take this time to get some feedback on some lyrics I wonder about. I am not familiar with NYC and there was a guy on here a few weeks ago who gave me a link to some stuff he had written a few years back analyzing S.D. songs. That link was excellent because it helped me understand the NYC twist on alot of songs. It also stimulated my brain to think about the correlation of "cars" and "wild encounters with women". I lost that link and you know who you are. Thanks.
It's not a chartbuster but I recently found my "Royal Scam" cd after a 6 month absence and was again amazed at how awesome it was. If you renmember I just recently purchased 2VN and EMG. I have been wearing those out but last night enjoyed the smooth lyrics of the "Caves of Altimira" and "Green Earrings" along with "Everything You Did" and "Haitian Divorce".......GOOD STUFF.
I just wonder what F and B were thinking on that album. On "Caves", the lyrics are just so slick and the music of course on all is good.
I saw somebody slamming EMG on here the other day. I would have to say it is just as good as most other SD material. "Mall", "Blues Beach", smooooooth.
I work 2 jobs and have 2 kids that live with me instead of my stinking ex and I am always on call through the radio stations so I don't have a whole lot of time to play my keyboard but I have noticed that although I don't know notes yet or how to read too much music, I can play a pretty mean backup on alot of stuff.
My lifelong thought on Steely Dan: They are the best. It's just amazing how they can sing about very different topics and the whole time maintain the perfect mixture of rock and jazz.
I hope everyone is good.
What is the difference between a radio guy and a large pizza?
A large pizza can feed a family of four.
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 06:35:12 ET
Posted by: Gina, Mizar5 Mountain
W1P, you can check the british Boston Rag, it seems there's another SD/Pink Floyd mutant alien living on earthen soil ...
And Daddy G .. i just visited Ken Emerson's website, he was also present at the Kula Jam .. you (or someone else) could simply try and email him in order to catch a glimpse of the event and ASK Ken Emerson what it was like!!!! ... i'm swamped here, or else i would have undertaken this pleasant venture myself ... this also a nice way to get acquainted or (re)connected with musicians we would normally not immediately notice because, ah well, too many musicians, too little time?
toodles, Gina
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 03:00:16 ET
Posted by: W1P, San Diego
Friday, March 25:
The Steely Damned
Humphrey's Backstage Lounge
Two shows: 8pm-10pm and 10:30pm-12:30am
Advance E-Tickets On Sale NOW!
http://www.rockola.com/MERCH/TSDtickets.htm
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 02:59:36 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
Raj, send over your forklift -- I got a lot of Foghat and dozens of Sprignsteen bootlegs
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 00:19:35 ET
Posted by: ss, hk
Is it possible the Kauai newspaper is a weekly and hasn't published anything on the show yet ?
Date: Wed, March 09, 2005, 00:06:03 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, River of Dreams
That's our Daddy G...checking out elementary school sites under cover of cyberspace for Don morsels. I don't expect anything from Lewis Fairlawn on this one, as it is a private gig and maybe just a warm up for what may be in the works.
And Donald doesn't DO warm ups for the GP.
As always, thanks for keeping us informed, hoops. And get well!
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 22:31:42 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., The wind was driving in my face....
I, for one, appreciated the post regarding the songs played at the Princeville gig just because I was naturally curious. Now that I know the circumstances of the post, I appreciate it even more. Feel better soon, Hoops.
Been Googling like a banshee myself the last couple of days trying to dig up some info on the gig, but coming up empty. Checked the Kuaui newspaper and TR sites, too, but was never able to find any post-gig info. Heck, I was even checking out the Kula Elementary site for possible tidbits.
______________________________________________________________________
Nothing related to the gig, but some folks might be interested in this article (there's even a minor Fagen ref)....
Listening to Bird, still flying: Charlie Parker and the essence of life
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/03/08/features/zwer9.html
[ PARIS---Listening to Charlie Parker, who died 50 years ago on March 12, the first thing you thought about was freedom. Still is.
The late tennis legend Don Budge, who was also a legendary jazz fan, built his style on hitting the ball hard while it was still on the rise. "I guess Charlie Parker played like he was hitting a rising ball," Budge said. "The cats must have spent a lot of time trying to figure that one out."
A variety of very different people had in common being turned around by Bird - Jack Kerouac, Clint Eastwood, Louis Malle, Astor Piazzolla, Boris Vian, Freddie Heineken, Donald Fagen, Allen Greenspan, Donald Justice and Jacques Delors, the former prime minister of France. In his memoir "Chronicles, Volume 1," Bob Dylan wrote that during his early years in Greenwich Village, he met a lot of people who acted as though "Bird had transmitted some secret essence of life to them."
.... ]
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 20:15:58 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
I've had my say, DF is fine, DF is a pro's pro, but DF could sound a whole lot better than he did in 2003. He's one of the few heroes I have left, one of the few with his integrity intact, I'm betting we see a different Donald in 2005.
Pinkimon, I think we should exchange record collections for a fortnight, call it: "Disc-Swap." I won't even ask you if you have any Sinatra...
Hoopsie, button up your overcoat when the Chy-town wind is free, take good care of yourself, you belong to "we." It must be all those darn Freshmen under your tutelage. Damn kids are always sick...start wearing a surgical mask during office hours, better yet, cancel all office hours until April 1 and put your lectures on web-cam.
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 19:28:14 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
Nothing less than a brilliant way to ruin the song I named my daughter after. Bob Tedde sings it better than that. I don't need no doctor. I don't have any Tony Bennett but I've got some X, Camper Van Beethoven and They Might Be Giants.
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 19:14:00 ET
Posted by: fezo, still, Orange, backwoods
agree with Drew, and others, about DF's voice being in fine form on the 2003 tour. Saw him at Nissan with a rain-drenched crew of Danfest regulars. A good time was had by all despite the weather. One reason: Donald and the rest of the band besides sounding great, really seemed to be enjoying themselves.
only possibly better show: '92 or '93 with Mindy Jostyn on fiddle/violin and awesome versions of Deacon Blues and My Old School
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 18:54:36 ET
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale, usa
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 17:28:28 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
I stole that from King Lear, the actual quote is, "never count a man happy till you know his end." I tweeked it.
Fortunately, Keith Jarett doesn't hold any copyrights to Shakespeare.
I checked the TR threads, nothing more on Princeville. This would seem like the perfect thing for Mr. Fairlawn to inform us about...
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 15:30:26 ET
Posted by: Joey,
" Never count a person lost until you know their end. "
My Rajah ..........................
Can I frame this post ?!?!
Developing .............................
J.
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 15:29:35 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
http://forum.trconnection.com/viewthread.php?tid=4608
The end of this thread has some loose, inconcise details.
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 15:23:08 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Heya
Been looking around for more details on last weekend's gig. I've been looking around a big TR fan site but am not feeling too well. Could someone else take a hunt? http://forum.trconnection.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=59
THANKS!
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 14:59:20 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Criticism of Steely Dan's music, etc not permitted or discouraged here? How silly, for goodness sake. I teach design, for cryin' out loud--I'm referred to as a critic by title. Healthy criticism opens the door for new possibilities and greater appreciation.
When fans make honest observations, it creates a perspective for what is good and ultimately for great appreciate of best moments. But to be an honest observer with an honest opinion, you must also be open to having your opinion changed or adjusted when called for. Often I will see where someone will slam SD here, then someone will respond to that slam with some very valid points that the slammer hadn't addressed. Instead of addressing the points in counterpoint, the critic retorts by complaining that only positive views are tolerated. (!)
For example, once there was song I really despised and I said as much. Hated it for years. Then in heated debate, I learned new things about the song and with that my appreciation had expanded. It now is one of my favorites. As a result of truly healthy and genuinely inspired criticism, I have one less song I hate and one more I really get a lot out of.
As LWO mentioned, it's disappointing to see the branding and stereotypes thing come up; There might be a little truth in stereo types, but they sure fall amazingly short of the full picture. I've never told anyone to stop making negative posts about Steely Dan (let alone removed negative posts) and in fact I very aggressively defend their right. Although I may not agree with some opinions, I take flak (in posts and in private email) for my defending the right to post and refusing to banish so called "negative opinions." In the case of Peter Q, I have gone after those who post anonymous, name-calling flames and, more often than not, it's kind of a tightrope. There's more behind the scenes than is evident up front.
So my bottom line is this, not only is intelligent, open minded criticism welcomed, I bust my ass to do what I can to ensure it. At the same time, some of you have to ask yourself if you are really coming here for genuine discussion or just to raise other's hackles.
As for "no-name" post mentioning the two songs, I'm befuddled at "For Goodness Sake"'s and others' reaction. Someone kindly leaves us additional info and all sorts of judgements are made, nevermind that one might feel excitement about DF's performing, etc.
Here's the deal. While I thought I had a cold on Saturday ("all Nyquilled" up as you will recall) I instead have something that's a combination of bronchitis and walking pneumonia. I emailed in sick to work yesterday and found a brief message from someone that those two songs were played and they would write back with more details. I had a terrible fever that fluctuated wildly and so I went to the hospital immediate care room. They released me and I went to the pharmacy to get RXs. So although I am sick, SD fanatic/nut I am, I keep worrying, "How do I get a Digest out so people know what Donald played?" I realized I was a few blocks from Kinko's where I can do a Digest and my RXs won't be ready for 40 minutes. So i get over there and as I'm starting to do the Digest, I realize I'm feeling woozy and I'm dripping sweat off my forehead on to my keyboard. So I realize I can't do a Digest, I'm too sick. And that guy never got his report back to me so all I can do is list two songs in the Digest and I'm too sick to research what possibly happened at the TR fans' sites. So I thought I would just make a quick post as to the songs so you folks would know. Hey any news was good news. But 1) When I post when I can't necessarily respond to all my emails, people get offended; 2) more over, interesting news but it's really not like I had anything to do with the tid-bit except it was passed along to me. I thought it would look like I am trying to take credit or something. I've posted links like that before--since I simply found a link, why should I even bother with my name. That's all. The set lists, songs, whatever at the show certainly wasn't shrowded in mystery. To the contrary, I posted in that fashion out of humility and because I am sick, I don't know I can reply to emails right away. I am boggled and offended that someone would take a good bit of news and spin it as darkly as possible. I was (and still am) extremely sick and, out of loyalty to the Dandom, wanted to make sure you got the news. That's all.
jim
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 13:40:41 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
Don's voice is a tricky thing. He's admitted he spends torturous hours when recording a song and it is quite a burden. He is not a trained singer and probably didn't really have any kind of regimen on the care, feeding and upkeep of this very delicate instrument until he started touring in 1993 (yikes, it's 12 years since Dan's been back!).
Don hits notes but cannot sustain them to the end of the measure or phrase. That's a function of being 1)out of shape physically, 2)out of condition, vocally, and 3) sitting down while singing. Singing was meant to be done standing up, especially when belting rock n roll. You can't push off on your diaphram when it's all scrunched down in the sitting position. Your legs and back are also very important when singing. You have to be strong down there, planted but relaxed. The hardest thing for opera singers to do is singing while walking. Also your neck and head need to be still and relaxed, Frank always preached, "stillness," and you don't sing from your throat which is what gives you that whiny tone. Listen to the way Mike McDonald produces sound as opposed to Donald. And no one can sing while dancing, it's impossible, so it's no wonder all those Madonna-rip-offs lip-sync. Don sounds so much better when he straps on that Keytar, he'd be even better if he lost the Keytar. But I think it's his comfort device, it's his blankee, like the shades, he's uncomfortable up there "naked" in a sense.
The issue of range also rears its head when you get to be a certain age. Absent rigorous training, you can't climb up the scale like you can when you're voice is young and supple. Every once in a while you have a freaks like Sting or Jon Anderson but generally, you start to lose your uppermost octave or partial octave at a certain age.
Singing has an athletic component to it, you have to maintain your training. You maybe get lucky every few nights but over the course of a 45+ date tour, you will break down, get sick even cause singing irritates the throat, chords, tonsils if you have em, swolen glands ensue when not supported properly, you get sore throats, laryngitis, infections.
Here's Dr. Bombay Raji's Rx for Donald:
1) lose the gut, strengthen the back, get on the treadmill
2) yoga
3) do the scales everyday
4) stay away from air conditioning
5) cool-mist ultrasonic vaporizers in every room, 24/7
6) never go out without a scarf at night, especially after a show
7) no dairy, booze or caffene on the road (Coca-cola?? yeech!)
8) an assisted and serious vocal warm-up every night half-hour before curtain
What Don did on the live Aja, extending and singing way behind the beat was nothing less than brilliant. Pinkster, do you own any Tony Bennett records? Look under that big stack of Humble Pie albums, lol.
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 13:24:23 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Installment three of the Steely Dan Clip Contest has just been posted. For those new, it's at http://paulygon.net
Creating difficult clips is much more difficult than recognizing a clip. Every Dan song has unique qualities in it that allow even casual fans to hear a second of a song and say, "Hey, that's X". I'm trying to look for instrumental patterns that are closely similar throughout an array of songs, but the process is grueling. If I was running the same contest for say, the Beatles, finding clips would be easy. Very few people recognize all of the songs from the early few albums, especially "Please Please Me" (their first). So what I'm basically trying to say that I'm open for suggestions.
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 12:30:54 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
I loved Don's voice at the LA show (it was the day my father died and it was really cool to be transported to my father's basement in Villa Park, Illinois where I used to spend my summers listening to Royal Scam on 8 Track on a red Panasonic portable with the black handle!). I detested the way he drew out that Aja vocal, however.
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 12:26:19 ET
Posted by: Drew, San Luis Obispo
I thought Donald's voice on the 2003 tour was the best of the several tours I have seen (94,96,2000,2003). I saw the Paso Robles (early in tour) and Santa Barbara (2nd leg of tour) shows. I loved the way he extended the vocal on the chorus to "Aja". He also went for the upper reaches on "Last Mall" with great gusto. Maybe L.A. was a bit off an off night?
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 12:22:39 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Paul Humphrey was referred to Steely Dan by way of Wilton Felder and Joe Sample. His album Super Mellow is one of the hottest fusion albums of the 70s...oh what's the use.
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 11:05:35 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
Or was it Rick Marotta? Hey, does anyone know if it's true that the guy who plays drums on "Black Cow" played with Lawrence Welk?!?!? Could that be true?
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 11:03:26 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
I agree with your analysis of how they juxtapose those two elements, PQ. That, in brief, is their whole thing.
But for a bunch of ass-kissing Steely Dan-obsessed latter-day yuppie scum and sycophantic (maybe psycho-fan-tic?) servile self-seeking spineless curry-favoring toads, I'd say we know the score pretty well, pardon the self-congratulation. Not all objectivity has been lost.
It's good to know yourself. (who? me? talkin to me? right...whatever)
TvN is one slick and sophisticated rock n roll record. That sandy-voice thing works well with the material. You will not however receive the electric thrill of hearing a vocalist at the top of his game keening out, "A-gents of the law-ah-aw..." That guy could really sing as Steve Gadd noted.
EMG is like walking into a Manhattan apartment that recently has been vacated by its tenants. But then you open up one of those ricketty-old kitchen cabinets and, lo and behold, they left behind a couple of Flintstone's jelly glasses. In fact that's what EMG reminds me of, a parallel reality where every appliance, tool or gizmo is run by pigmy dinosaurs running on belts, meet the Flintstones. It's freaky.
Forgoodnessakes is right about one thing: Green Book. I dunno but it might be the most orginal thing on the record. It really conjures up this other world, I'm hypnotized by that Arabian scale work behind, "I like the neon, I love the music, anachronistic but nice."
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 10:29:12 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
I question this "loner" and "loser" stuff. Steely Dan deliberately creates cognitive dissonance by coupling mildly downer lyrics with very upbeat, happy, at times even joyous, emotive music.
I always smile when I read stuff like "Steely Dan lyrics analyze the dark side." They don't, and they don't mean to.
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 08:09:10 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
The SD discography analysis is great. Give or take a half a star in some places, but otherwise, that's the way I've always felt.
"Everything Must Go" is a fun album to listen to, but doesn't live up to the lyrical quality of the earlier albums. "Greenbook" is awesome, one of my favorites. I've never really liked "Pixeleen" or "Things I Miss The Most".
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 04:44:55 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
PQ: Yes, a promise is a promise-- I WILL check out all the neo-soul stuff when I get a chance. And how about Gerald Veasley? I read somewhere that he's also doing cutting-edge neo-soul music these days. True?
That was also a very interesting point about the effortless, natural sound that a lot of jam-bands are getting, with acoustic bass & killer grooves, and also your previous point about latin percussion-- it's EXACTLY THAT that seems missing on 2vN and EMG, as much as I like both albums. D & W need to get out more or something . . .
FACW: GREAT point about EMG-- I think you're right, the songs would actually sound better filtered through vintage 60s AM radio. A time-warp vortex audio system would be in order here. I always thought "Blues Beach" is best appreciated as a tribute to a lot of those 60s pop groups like Freddy and the Dreamers, Fred ____ and his Playboy Band (remember "Judy In Disguise"?), and the band that did "Winchester Cathedral," all that kind of groove. I'm waiting for Smashmouth to cover "BB"-- they'd do a bang-up job with it!
Rajah: Can't significantly argue or add to your concise analytical rundown of SD's discography. I hears it like you calls it.
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 02:38:20 ET
Posted by: Fagen Audio Crack Whore,
Rajah: Fagen's voice has always been day to day since the pre-Dan daze. There was a rumor about nodules on the vocal cords before TvN came out and he sounds whispery at times. I thought the vocals were considerably stronger on EMG and I consider it one of their better vocal albums - they're back up in the mix like Gaucho or Nightfly.
Concertwise - my rememberence from commentary was that there were Off nights in both the 2000 and 2003 tours. But i tell ya, the night in Dallas in '03 - Fagen's vocals were spectacular. I went stone cold sober and despite the crappy acoustics, not only was the band first rate, but the Donald nailed pretty much every note - and blended well with the babe choir. Considering a rock venue the nuances and phrasing and clarity on the opening full band performance Aja actually surprised me, and delightfully so.
Here's the deal with EMG - it's live tracked and any warts thus are apparant - It's their LIVE album I guess - no Pro-Tools sync-lock like on TvN. I dig the performances, but Rajah nailed it - the best recordings are Godwhacker, Green Book, Pixeleen, Lunch with Gina, and the title track. Now that's 5 classic tracks. Things I Miss the Most should be, but not to grouse too much, but the rhythm section leans towards a Hey 19 thumpa thump while the tune and horns strives for a 40s film noir sheen. Carlock was a monster in concert, but he sounds tense on some of the EMG tracks. TIMTM, The Last Mall seems like the timing is off a little and forced and Pixeleen is pushed a little too hard in places. I think the title track is Keith's best work on the album.
Lyrically, it's a better album than TvN - but it's not as polished or full in production - lakcs the multiple voices and little extras on TvN. When i heard there would be live tracking primarily - thought it would end up more like Negative Girl - the only ilve tracked song on TvN.
The song order also seems to interrupt the flow
...so I program my computer/DVD/CD players to go
EMG (what an intro! outtro and everything in between is full of vigor
GreenBook
Pixeleen - IMHO - one of the best pop songs they've ever written
Lunch with Gina (a perfect song for the cleanup position)
Things I Miss the Most (Fagen's vocals are pretty darn good here)
Godwhacker (the Groove of Ages - be vewy, vewy quiet - the return of the blues synth harp!!))
Slang of Ages ( I want to pull for Walter, but this is a weak track despite some cool production - a warmed-over Janie Runaway)
Blues Beach (cutsey juxtapose with dead man walking or here staggering - has a bit of charm)
The Last Mall (the "pull the plug" ending really belongs at the album's conclusion - kablooie!)
Something weird I've noticed. The better system of medium you have, the better TvN sounds - can't help but L-U-V it on DVD-A...BUT EMG sounds better on a transistor radio - like a 60s pop album - made for amplitude modulation on the kHz frequency.
Date: Tues, March 08, 2005, 01:28:58 ET
Posted by: Goodness Sake, disgusted
I, too, consider myself one of the down and out group, that's why it's so infuriating to see the band turning into the sleekest, coolest game in town, while fans praise each and every member of the band for each and every accomplishment. Every individual website is "great," each musician is the "best in the field" and so much anonymity and faceless posts are devoted to the whereabouts. Suddenly SD IS the Audi TT, whereas they used to be the El Camino (or the Chrysler). It's become poser music! That's why I listen to Humble Pie, Foghat, and the Eagles.
By the way, the only good song on EMG is Green Book. It's the only one that showed any effort to be cryptic, creative, sneaky, jazzy, while everything else is a simple jingle or 21st century disco schmaltz. Pixeleen is the most annoying of the tracks, with the Tinkerbell background vocals. Too much attention is paid to showboating on PBS or live, and not enough detail to the thing we all liked in the first place, the music!! Sorry for the rant, just a lonesome loser's opinion.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 23:28:45 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Never count a person lost until you know their end.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 23:24:35 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, You May Be Right
Thanks for keeping it real, Raj. Ya know, he never did have great pipes, but it works for the material....and all us ne'er do well losers....
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 23:16:15 ET
Posted by: W1P, Amoeba
That because, like the Hunt Bros, I'm going to buy up all the copies (along with Head East and Starcastle)
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 23:12:04 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
His voice was shot last time out.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 21:40:28 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, The Stranger
The beauty and sometimes, the failing, of the written word is that it can lack inflection. From where I post, I thought you were playing along with the I've Seen That Movie, Too, bit, PQ.
As for critiquing the latest offerings from Steely Dan, in my opinion, they continue to write music that relates to a life evolving and, personally, I think that covers a lot of territory for their larger fan base. I guess some would prefer that they keep the music rockin', (whatever their definition of that particular term is....) which is fine. Not my MO to change anyone's opinion of what Steely Dan should be or mean...it's way too personal for that.
Oh yeah, and Rajah said Donald's voice was shot last year, I do remember that. A shining example of Blind Steely Dan Faith...
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 21:21:48 ET
Posted by: fife, baltimore
I just saw this on yahoo.ca and thought it funny. Prime Minister Paul Martin, yep thats the name of the Canadian PM, gave Bono a call and now U2 has included Ottawa for their tour later this fall! Ottawa is not usually a stop that the big acts make, that honour falls to Montreal, Toronto, or Vancouver. PM Martin was lobbied by radio station BOB.FM who promised to change the name of the station for one day to PAUL.FM if he got the group to play in the Capital City. MMM I wonder if he could get Don to stop there when he tours this year? That would be for you Woody!!
I also got my hands on a book that is due to be released in May called "The Rock Snobs Dictionary an Essential Lexicon of Rockological Knowledge" It has some pretty interesting things in it but it's mostly for the chuckle factor. There are a few Dan references in it and for those of you into Eno and Fripp there's quite a bit. I would just like to reply about the Billy Joel debate, if he's so darn stupid how come he's got all millions?
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 21:20:08 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I stand corrected. Or sit corrected. Actually, I lie down corrected. Whatever. I'm going to shut up for a while.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 21:13:01 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
LWO - What's going on is that Goodness Sake, whom we all know is NYB, is making the same observations for, oh, about 5 years now. No more or less. Now that Pat has re-opened the Yellow he will probably make them there again. Everybody's seen this movie ten times, was all I was trying to say to Paul.
Chrysler - Keith Carlock posted on his site that he really digs D'Angelo. How cool!!
St Al himself has said many times that with TVN and EMG, Steely Dan totally lost the edge of their early albums. I have no strong opinion one way or another. What I can say is that I'd like to hear acoustic bass - the chill bands that use upright bass with phat, hammering hip hop beats, like Fishbelly Black, Down To The Bone, and 480 East, make grooves effortlessly in a way that SD no longer does and maybe no longer wants to. I'd like to hear soprano sax, not bullshit like Kenny G but a Coltrane-level soprano player like Bill Evans or Billy Pierce. Lastly, a kickass percussionist like Marc Quinones or Alex Acuna or Manolo Badrena, IMHO,
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 20:51:51 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
See what I mean? Even Pink is tolerated. Again with the Foghat. Our sensibilities are distilled down to Foghat. Over here.
I'll wager my yuppyfied whiny elitist soul-less husk, empty as it is, that Foghat is not in the AMOEBA vinyl stacks in 20 years.
Nee-ner-neen-ner-neen-ner.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 20:33:46 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
I don't like East St Louis Too Da Loo or Through With Buzz. I like Foghat. I think that Royal Scam is by far the Dan's best record. I named my daughter Aja not Katy. I covered AMD on Yellow Peril. I'm tolerated in these blue parts.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 20:19:40 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Can't Buy a Thrill - So-so, uneven but some real high points that gave us hope. 2 stars.
Countdown to Ecstasy - Now this is where it got interesting. 3 stars.
Pretzel Logic - Their "style" arrives. 3 stars
Katy Lied - great tone poem. A few problem spots, this all could've sounded better. 3 1/2 stars
Royal Scam - Guitar-Zan! 4 stars
AJA - Stars don't do it justice but I give it 7, one for each cut.
Gaucho - cold, chilling, painful, honest, hilarious. 4 stars
Two Against Nature - somebody got lucky twice. This is like that old suit from twenty years ago that still can be worn. A timeless classic. 4 stars
Everything Must Go - Godwhacker, Green Book, Pixeleen and Gina are as good as anything they've done. 3 stars
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 19:58:33 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
PQ: I'm not exactly sure I know what you mean by that. The current topic being discussed seems to me to be the validity of the opinions expressed by the users of the bluebook; wether they are acting in a cult-ish fashion, if new or unpopular criticism of SD stuff is accepted here, and/or this board is supposed to be for people who feel like SD has an exclusivity.
With a fresh perspective, it seems to me that unpopular ideas posted on this board are discouraged to an extent (just look at the Billy Joel discussion, or this one, for that matter), but not so much as to completely shy people away from controversial topics. And if this board is "supposed to be" for people who basically believe Steely Dan can do no wrong, than I want no part of it, but I really don't see that from the majority of the users.
I'll step off my soapbox now.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 19:22:10 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
Thank you, Paul, that was one of mine, which I stand by. Don't know what "Goodness Sake" (NYB?) is talking about. I've ripped the stuff I don't like from both 2vN and EMG over, under, sideways, and down while lauding only the stuff I DO like from them.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 19:21:57 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, Honesty
So, tell us what is going on PQ? I've been around 5 years and I'm really at a loss to understand this thread.
No need to be territorial. Come on, live and let live, fer Christsakes!
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 19:11:11 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Paul, you're in the middle of about 200 people with 5 years or more of history on the various SD boards, there's alot more goiong on here than might meet the eye.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 19:06:41 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I'm wrong, the posts I was speaking of that discuss EMG are not from a couple of weeks ago, but from back in mid-late 2004. I must have been reading old posts without realizing it.
Nevertheless, the post
'The Things I Miss the Most' is a dull exercise in
line cliches (meaning musical line cliches, i.e.,
chromatically descending lines in chords). ' (Sep 1, 2004)
hardly sounds like "Blind Steely Dan Worship".
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 18:57:25 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
> SD used to be songs of the loner, the down and out luckless
> loser with a fan base who identified with the music because
> it echoed their own sentiments and emotional mindset
So that's why I like SD so much, after only being introduced a coupla months ago....
> Has anyone critiqued EMG lately? It's NOT all that.
Actually when I first started coming to the Bluebook a couple of weeks ago, some of the first posts I read were some candid criticism of EMG songs and the album as a whole. Look back, the posts are there, and most definetely do not claim EMG to be "all that".
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 18:56:40 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, Movin' Out
Awww shit, here we go again with the damned typecasting and name calling....
I, for one, still consider myself to be a down and out, luckless loser who identifies with the Steely Dan outlook on life, and at this point, I'm certainly ok with that and not a "yuppie poser" interested in what fortunes I may reap by hanging with a like-minded group of folks here, there or anywhere.
I'll be what I what to be....which means I don't particularly care for personal showdowns on a guestbook. I don't think that makes me less of a person or a fan.
Welcome back to the Yellow board! It certainly has served a viable purpose for a long time and, although it ain't my cup of arsenic, I certainly don't begrudge anyone else his poison.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 18:52:41 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
No, I didn't say that at all. You can't exist in today's world as if it were 1977. I'm sure Becker and Fagen aren't nuts about the way they have to get out and promote themselves, give alot of interviews, etc., when a new album comes out but in today's world it's a must. Being all mysterious and cryptic today will blow up in your face.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 18:49:55 ET
Posted by: goodness sake,
Really? Has anyone critiqued EMG lately? It's NOT all that.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 18:30:16 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
That's a load of hooey. A steaming Turban of doo-doo, I might add.
The only thing we've never criticized was Donald's dog from that picture inside the Aja cover.
I believe he went by, "Stoner."
Aw shoot, did it again!
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 18:10:01 ET
Posted by: Goodness Sake,
PQ, so what you're saying is, everyone here has "Blind Steely Dan Worship?" and that it's unconditional? Or if there ARE any critics of the band and their material they don't want to fess up because of raising the ire of fellow bluebookers? Isn't that a little cult-ish?
SD used to be songs of the loner, the down and out luckless loser with a fan base who identified with the music because it echoed their own sentiments and emotional mindset. Now it seems it's all gone yuppie/poser cool. That's not the Steely Dan I grew up with. I don't know if it's the band or the image the fans have created of the band that has me so fed up!
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 17:07:48 ET
Posted by: Agent Baba Maxwell Smart Rajah, Johnny's Bunker
Prepare the Cone of Silence, Agent 99...cause if anyone finds out Donald took the stage wearing an Easter Bunny outfit with panatella, old black derby hat and furry tail, dude, we're sunk.
We criticize them plenty. No turn has been left unstoned.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 16:44:58 ET
Posted by: and on that note, won't you sign in, stranger?
St. Al has reopened the original GB:
www.banyantrees.net/yellow
beware ye who enter.......
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 16:30:32 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Yeah but you're missing the point. The board is *supposed to be* for people who feel that way. If you want to like Steely Dan but be free to criticize you should be on the Yellow.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 16:06:17 ET
Posted by: Goodness Sake,
Thank you, PQ! At least I'm not the only one who feels ever so slightly that SD (or perhaps the fans) has/have gotten a little too chichi the past couple of years!! Puh-leeeze. All the "exclusivity" surrounding them is nauseating!
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 15:45:31 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
LOL...For Goodness Sake, though I agree with you more than not, I can tell you this would not be the right board to express that sentiment.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 15:42:13 ET
Posted by: For Goodness Sake!!!!!!!!!,
"Just an update. The Steely Dan tracks DF performed were "Third World Man" and "Black Friday." Plus the other non Dan stuff."
What, is it some big secret about the concert? " ," can't use a name because this is such top secret, sensitive material? Come on, get real!! We didn't realize Steely Dan was so exclusive. Give me a break.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 13:00:44 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Oh, and one more thing, if you have any suggestions or clips already made up that you want in the contest, send them along.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 12:50:28 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
Yesterday about 6 hours after my clip contest started, FACW won with the response "Glamour Profession" from Gaucho. The newest clip is now available. As I selected the clip, I'm not really sure how difficult it is, it might be a toughee. Good luck again, and I thank everyone for their interest.
For those new, the Steely Dan Clip Contest is at http://paulygon.net
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 12:19:21 ET
Posted by: ,
Thank you Hamburger Laddie!
Just an update. The Steely Dan tracks DF performed were "Third World Man" and "Black Friday." Plus the other non Dan stuff.
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 11:55:20 ET
Posted by: Joey,
" Anyway, for anyone looking for some good films to see, check out "The Upside of Anger" with Joan Allen - domestic drama with a sinister comedic twist and "Melinda and Melinda," the newest Woody Allen effort that brings him back his trademark style in the vein of "Husbands and Wives" and "Manhattan."
Thank You G .
But please , everyone , stay far far away from " The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind " ......*** PHEW ***
" I'ld ( sic ) hate to compare the far intellectually superior SD to Billy Joel, though. "
Thank You Paul , ...... Rio Grande !!!!!!!!
J. Fly ! ™
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 05:42:43 ET
Posted by: Hamburger Laddie, London
In-depth review of Hawaii gig from Todd Rundgren Connection site:
"KE started with some blues. TR did soul brother, I
saw the light, and a medley of soul tunes, D Fagen did
some steely tunes and some blues.TR and DF did an Al
Green tune together.TR and everyone ended with bang
the drum, a real rave up."
Nice picture of The Don at his most animated in rehearsal here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7076704/
Date: Mon, March 07, 2005, 02:56:36 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
Part of the price for going to Keneally is that I got to stay home and watch the kids last night. So I'm channel surfing and came across a Music Choice presentation of The Polyphonic Spree. It was like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Way too much input. And I thought I might be joining the Moonies or something just by watching these 40 people milling around stage in flowing white and red robes. And they had a French Horn -- it was Deacon Blues on steroids. I've heard one of their songs (on a VW commercial) but I had never heard of the band until last night. What planet are these people from?
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 23:21:01 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, lounging
Aja, we missed you Thursday, but email me and we can plan for Pretzel Logic's next show, which I believe (correct me if I'm mistaken, Stevee) that it's April 1. I'll give you my number again, we have to meet up,you'll LOVE this band. Pretzel put on another excellent show Thursday night, full of energy and top notch musicianship, these guys (and girl) are pros! Steve has this Elton-esque persona at the keyboard, my old man and I have the honor of sitting at a table just inches from Steve and his various props. Watching Steve you can never be mistaken that music is his passion, he's very inspiring. Steve, thanks again, it's a hell of a great band, and my compliments to Felice on her solo for "Daddy Don't Live in That NYC..." she has a REAL voice, very earthy and soulful.
Anyway, for anyone looking for some good films to see, check out "The Upside of Anger" with Joan Allen - domestic drama with a sinister comedic twist and "Melinda and Melinda," the newest Woody Allen effort that brings him back his trademark style in the vein of "Husbands and Wives" and "Manhattan."
G
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 16:13:50 ET
Posted by: Paul, paulygon.net
I see lots of guesses here that aren't on my website. To win, you'll have to make your response official by commenting. I've also thought of some prizes... how do Gmail invitations sound? That's the only thing I can think of that wouldn't cost me anything....
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 15:06:09 ET
Posted by: Fagen Audio Crack Whore,
Paul: Man, that's way less than a second. Sounds like a classic Fagen minor key Fendor Rhodes chord. I believe that one is about 0:05 sec. into Glamour Profession... from the album Gaucho of course.
Rajah: Having some fun...I really don't dig much after Nylon Curtain (Storm Front is just plain bad and come to think of it Glass Houses reeks pre Nylon) when he lost his shirt to the brother in law but Rosalinda's Eyes, Stiletto, Zanzibar, Vienna, I Love These Days, Miami 2017, Summer Highland Falls, Billy the Kid are well constructed pop songs I enjoyed way back. I like Pressure for no reason at all. Captain Jack sounded cool as a teen. Rosalinda's Eyes and Vienna probably hold up the best over time BJ is a chameleon of mimicing styles...sure it's opinion but time separates the wheat and chaff a bit
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 14:21:42 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Yes! And Tim Murphy too, in the famed Steely Dances:
www.frogsonice.com/skateweb/reports/iceage2001.shtml
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 14:12:36 ET
Posted by: True Companion,
Trivia, "what great choreographer used a Steely Dan song in a dance"?
David Parson
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 14:03:46 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
It comes off nicely. I go to see dance troupes often, either at the Joyce Theater or City Center. The tough part with Movin Out is that everybody knows the songs ahead of time and therefore has pre conceived notions.
Trivia, what great choreographer used a Steely Dan song in a dance?
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 13:43:23 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
I'm told Twyla Tharp is a great choregrapher, not knowing anything about dance, I guess I'll accept that but Musicals are very tough to swallow, the form is problematic even though soem great songwriters chose it as their medium.
Paul, the Missus says that's "Green Flower Street." I say Teahouse on the Tracks but those are both DF songs...
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 13:36:46 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Ummmm...the point of the Billy Joel musical is not the Billy Joel songs. The point is that the dances are choregraphed by one of the greatest dance choreographers the world has ever known. Who the songs are by is secondary, though I will admit they marketed the play by using Joel's name more than hers.
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 13:28:27 ET
Posted by: Paul,
I just thought of this amazingly awesome idea (well, I stole the idea from my local Classic Rock radio station). New on my website is a contest in which people guess Steely Dan songs after hearing a less-than-one second clip. Try it out! There are no prizes yet, but I'll definetely be giving some if the contest increases in popularity. So now there is only fame to be won.
The contest is at: http://www.paulygon.net
Good luck!
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 12:04:05 ET
Posted by: Paul, in this all too mobile home
> Criticism at its very best can come close to being devoid
> of opinion. It's rare.
Totally agree.
I actually like BJ once in a while, like if it's in the middle of a mix on the radio, and I'm in a bad mood...
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 11:07:53 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
Criticism at its very best can come close to being devoid of opinion. It's rare.
Billy Joel did some nice pop songs, I remember Vienna, Zanzibar but don't ask me to go to see the Musical. Rock n roll is a very sad affair in that format, laughable, and in the wrong way.
I know quite a few Dannites who don't give a darn about Steely Dan lyrics. But if you like puzzles, the clues are there.
Calling Princeville, come in Princeville...
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 10:32:07 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Just checking for any word on last night's gig in HI. Any news was good news.
Billy Joel and Elton John are like visiting your old friends from High School. The ex-brother-in-law is only one of a few times BJ has got into it with those managing his career.
Thanks for the heads up FACW.
jim
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 09:58:09 ET
Posted by: Paul,
Wether one likes an artist or not is all opinion. Unless it's the backstreet boys, then the fan is just an idiot.
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 02:59:43 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', 52nd Street
I've had a lot of enjoyment from Billy Joel music over the years....listening to it, watching it, and playing it.
I saw him in concert in 1980 on the Glass Houses tour. Fabulous show -no qualifiers.
He's written a lot of very good pop songs in many styles. As many styles as he has SINGING styles.
Accessible lyrics with lots of bite.
I'd see him again.
Date: Sun, March 06, 2005, 02:51:41 ET
Posted by: moray eel, North
Any BlueBookers in Kaua'i tonight?
m.e.
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 21:19:52 ET
Posted by: FACW,
motleyfool.com confirms that the brother-in-law took Joel for a crisp $30M.
http://www.fool.com/news/foth/2002/foth020909.htm
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 21:12:03 ET
Posted by: Mr LaPage, with my life and laundry in a Gladstone bag
The Second Arrangement = Best Steely Dan song ever. I wish they would have finished the remake, even if it wasn't as good as the original.
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 21:10:58 ET
Posted by: Fagen Audio Crack Whore,
PQ: Dude, didn't Billy Joel get *scammed* out of most of his $$$ by his manager?!! - was he the brother in law? joel then dumped the wife - bad karma. Met and married Christie Brinkley. Then she dumped him - his modicum of talent displayed last on Nylon Curtain Beatles ripoff album and the non-hits on 42nd Street Steely Dan-lite album and Stranger fake Italian album went to shit on that 50s album, and the Bridge and 2 other pieces of crap I can't remember... and now he just makes crappy classical instead of crappy pop albums! Still I guess he somehow retained enough $ probably from Christie's AbMaster and other gym equipment infomercials to own a home in the Hamptons and to crash into another one there...hello!!
Billy Joel's lyrics sound clever when one is18...then my acne and head cleared...
hoops: Man, I had a month straight of drips, hacks, coughs, cotton head, oozing green stuff...the only saving grace is that February is a short month.
Listened to Ben Folds' Landed single 6 times in a row doing some on-line research - yep he's mining Elton Madman/Tumbleweed period hoops - you might dig it.
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 19:56:01 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Ummmm...Twyla Tharp is one of the greatest choreographers of modern dance, duh. Real culturally astute observation, LOL. Real "cerebral fan base" stuff, LOL.
Provide us with even one quote about your "fact" that real musicians hate Billy Joel. Even one quote.
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 18:36:38 ET
Posted by: Studio Questionaire, in the studio?
A question for the musicians out there;
What reasonably priced monitors would work well in a home studio?
I've listened to the EVENT 8TR8 and Blue Sky Media 2.1 systems and found them to be very similar in overall sound. What sub-$1000 dollar studio monitors would you say are the best?
Thanks
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 17:58:59 ET
Posted by: Paul, Greenflower St.
By intellectually superior I was referring to crap like lyrics. Billy Joel's stuff is just there... nothing to intepret, rarely anything symbolic. But sometimes it seems like it takes a college degree in literary analysis to truely understand Dan lyrics. There's some real substance. Of course though, on the pop scene money-wise, BJ was much more successful.
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 17:50:36 ET
Posted by: Aja, up on the hill w/o a computer
Gretchen-apologies for not getting in touch with you! My computer crashed right after I e-mailed you, taking with it your phone# and e-mail address. Anyway, I hope you had a wonderful time at the show, and hope we can meet up next time around. Again, my apologies!
Aja
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 17:18:08 ET
Posted by: P, BJ - a no talent sell-out
"And oh, by the way, alot of the same cats who play on Steely Dan albums play on Billy Joel albums - Phil Woods, Steve Khan, etc. How do you explain that"?
Very easy.....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Please don't mention Steely Dan and Billy Joel in the same sentence. Oh shit, I just did!
Peter Q~ Would you like Steely Dan better if they put on a Broadway show with ballerinas leaping around the stage to Josie?
Billy Joel is hated by "real musicans" Fact!
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 16:47:02 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Let's put it this way. Todd Rundgren and Donald Fagen have been two comparatively well known names on the pop scene for over 30 years now...and it looks like they're struggling to get a promoter. How long do you think it would take Billy Joel to get a promoter? About two seconds, if that long? In this regard, then, who's intellectually superior? Come on.
And oh, by the way, alot of the same cats who play on Steely Dan albums play on Billy Joel albums - Phil Woods, Steve Khan, etc. How do you explain that?
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 16:40:26 ET
Posted by: dan, fan
Peter Q,
Billy Joel blows!
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 16:20:53 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Paul - pop music is as much about business as it is about music. There is no pop musician - none, ever - who has been intellectually superior to Billy Joel in the business aspect of pop music.
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 15:47:14 ET
Posted by: Paul, Rio Grande
I just listened to the original "I Got The News" from the Katy Lied outakes
.
The instrumental kind of sounds like Billy Joel's "My Life". I'ld hate to compare the far intellectually superior SD to Billy Joel, though.
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 14:12:52 ET
Posted by: hoops, with that nasty flu
Dosed on Nyquil, dreams of Donald's performance in Hawaii tonight dance in my head :-)
Be well, if you aren't already.
jim
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 13:46:09 ET
Posted by: Buzz Lightyear, LA
He "played" the buzz using his wah pedal
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 13:41:26 ET
Posted by: W1P, Potato
Keneally is so amazing that when confronted with a nasty buzz in the PA caused (so we were told) by a lightning strike in the area, Mike incorporated it into his song Skull Bubbles. Has anyone here heard "Splane" from the Keneally album "Dog"? Ms. Ducky was with me last night and when the song started I just looked at her and we had the same thought "man this is Dannish" Walt and Don need Keneally (I know, it's never gonna happen, don't remind me).
I know a pretty little place in Southern California, down San Diego way where this afternoon at 3 pm Mike Keneally and Bryan Beller will be performing "acoustic" (but with the new T5 which can sound exactly like a Les Paul or a Strat) at the Museum Of Making Music, Fifth Anniversary Celebration, 5790 Armada Drive, Carlsbad, CA 92008
By the way, all you Easterners -- Mike and Bryan are coming your direction this month for a series of Taylor acoustic performances (including the T5). Check http://www.keneally.com for dates and places.
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 13:10:19 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
J - It was the marathon you advertised, we needed a break after TWU. If nothing else but to clear your head of the theme. I guess the word is Metheny's gone poppy, smooth but the music was impressive, the sheer number of instruments played was too. Sanchez plays his kit low, cymbals way down low, his stuff is all very in tight, I don't think he raised either hand above face level, switching from traditional grip in the strait jazz mode to a kind of rim click grip, playing like a timbales player might. And underneath everything are a variety of rolling rhythms with the feet, an intense engine. Then the big wow when he busts out the solos, he somehow reminds me of Billy Cobham, not at all in style but something... One slight annoyance: over two solos a click trak thinly disguised as a kind of a drip-drop fawcett noise loop thingy, whatever, sounded like a click playing in the house and he sure didn't need it.
How was Keanelly, W1P?
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 11:50:48 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta
Raj - thank you so much for the update! Yeah, Antonio is a freak. No doubt about that at all. I'm sure you witnessed the left foot clave stuff he seems to have perfected. I've heard one of the encores is the tune "First Circle". Maybe they're changing the set list a bit here and there. Atlanta show is 15 days away! My seats are on the third row directly in front of Antonio. Think I'm excited???
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 05:11:12 ET
Posted by: W1P, Baked Potato
Oh my gawd raj did you make a mistake. C'est La Vie
Date: Sat, March 05, 2005, 03:58:01 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Josey - just back from Pat Metheny. They came out, the four core players with three other guys who each played vibes, guitar, horn n bone, percussion, crooned at fini...you name it, at 8:32 PM and played The Way Up for just under 69 minutes. I was able to follow most of it and it was aw-aw-awesome. What an incredible band, what an incredible drummer Antonio Sanchez is. Quiet, quiet intensity. I can tell you about his style cause some genius, and I do in this case mean actual genius, dragged his kit downstage left and OPPOSED his left side to the audii. I could see his hi-hat and footwork perfectly. This was a treat and a revelation. More later.
No Balboa, though, not to our recognition. Two from Still Life Talking including the concluding piece, then a thing from We Live Here for an encore.
Downside: Metheny gave no interval, he chose to play until 11;15 with no break. And he also chose to put us to sleep between 10:40 and 11:00 with subdued, sparse tunes utilizing only two players. Great execution, Jesus what he and Antonio did waz trillin but I needed to pee and have beer and a T-Shirt, know what I'm sayin? Snooze-ville ensued, dear Josey.
But the man--oh Jesus and the band-- were flabbergastingly fan-fucking-taskik.
She looked over toward the end and asked, "you don't seriously want to go see MK at 11;30? I said "no" and settled for a pint at Gladstones's.
Like I said, the flesh, she is a-weak.
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 18:28:46 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Paul; No problem. In the Digest (and below in the Bluebook from last night) it says that Oleander is having server problems with 'Fever Dreams' but it will be back.
"Douche": I think at least DF may already got your message about the Latin influences; scroll over to the Blue from around January 28, 2005 and there are some posts about Erika Lukett and how the upcoming album is being called DF's Brazilian/Latin album.
The following is an interesting article from the August 16, 1992 "Chicago Tribune." You may have also seen it in the Dandom Digest a few years back. Fagen talks about Coltrane and Jazz, "Gaucho," "Aja," his solo work, WB's solo work and his playing non-Steely Dan gigs like the Lonestar in the early 90s. In some ways, where things are at with him and Steely Dan is similar to now.
---------------------
Subject: Chicago Tribune, 8.16.92: ROCK 'n' SOUL: The rise and fall (and rise again) of Steely Dan
HEADLINE:
ROCK 'n' SOUL
The rise and fall (and rise again) of Steely Dan
By Greg Kot, Rock Music Critic, Chicago Tribune, Sunday, August 16, 1992
For Steely Dan fans, it's been a drought of biblical proportions: 12 years and counting without any new music from one of the more innovative bands of the 1970s.
There have been no albums from either of Steely Dan's founding members, Donald Fagen and Walter Becker, since 1982, when Fagen released "The Nightfly." The duo last worked together in 1980, on what would be the final Steely Dan album, "Gaucho."
As Fagen explains, he was left drained by the making of "The Nightfly" without his old partner, and found "I had nothing left to say."
"The '80s, personally and musically, were a trying period; I felt I was essentially out of the scene for a whole decade," he adds. "I needed to grow as a person to get the energy to record again without repeating myself. If I could've put out an uninspired record to make a living, I would have. But that's not the way I work."
The creative juices are flowing again, however.
Late last year, the taciturn keyboardist and an all-star cast released an album of rock and soul cover versions, "The New York Rock and Soul Revue: Live at the Beacon" (Giant), that included a couple of reworked Steely Dan tunes.
----snip----
Also performing will be erstwhile Steely Dan vocalist Michael McDonald (who later found fame with the Doobie Brothers and as a solo artist), as well as veteran singers Boz Scaggs, Phoebe Snow and Chuck Jackson, plus a six-piece band, horn section and backup singers.
Together, Becker and Fagen charted an alluring course through 1970s pop, blending a love of jazzy, minor-key pop melodies, shimmering production and ironic lyrics. After a string of critically acclaimed releases, the duo struck platinum (1 million sales) with "Aja" in 1977.
But with the follow-up, "Gaucho," the duo's creative partnership dissipated almost beyond repair.
"We were going through a lot of personal troubles, and we were under a lot of pressure to top 'Aja,' which had been an enormous visible success," Fagen says. "When I hear that record ('Gaucho') now, I get the creeps."
After that, "it wasn't possible for us to go in. I thought 'Aja' was our peak, and then Walter and I just went in different directions."
Fagen worked through a bout of depression in the '80s, while Becker battle drug addiction, but the two began seeing each other off and on again to write songs beginning in 1985 (one of which is expected to surface on Fagen's next album).
Although a much-rumored Steely Dan reunion didn't take place, "we've been close since then," Fagen says. "Our relationship has improved tremendously and it's fun to be with him in the studio again. That's what was missing in 'Gaucho.'"
Meanwhile, Fagen began playing a few modest gigs in restaurants around Manhattan at the behest of a friend, songwriter Libby Titus.
"They were evenings of mixed music-cabaret, jazz, some pop-even some comedy," Fagen says.
"I got invited to do one with Dr. John. It was just me and him on keyboards, with a rhythm section, mostly playing jazz, and he'd sing a few. It was fun."
From there, the Rock and Soul Revue concept was born, with lines stretching around the block to see free-wheeling, anyone-might-show-up performances at the Lone Star Roadhouse in Manhattan.
The shows marked Fagen's first live appearances since that first Steely Dan tour, which he dubbed a "disaster."
"We'd open for heavy metal bands, and we never got the sound check we wanted," he says. "The accommodations were less than wonderful, with routing from hell-from Honolulu to Miami."
With the Rock and Soul Revue, Fagen says he's in a "Steve Allen mode," playing master of ceremonies from his piano. He and Becker will perform a handful of Steely Dan tunes with the rest of the band, though one from their upcoming albums-"It's bad luck to play new material until it's released."
He adds that other surprises may be in store, however. "I'm trying to get Walter to sing. The last time he did that was during the Bleeker Street days back in 1966."
Becker and Fagen first met at Bard College in upstate New York in the mid-'60s.
"We were writing songs together within a day of meeting each other, " Fagen says. "We both had been jazz fans since we were 9 or 10 years old, listening to the same jazz shows on the radio, and we both got into soul and pop in the mid-'60s."
Fagen says the two veered towards pop because jazz was losing its appeal.
"It had begun turning into an avant-garde art form," he says. "As (saxophonist) John Coltrane took jazz further out, he destroyed what jazz had been before. I understood what was happening, but I missed the more melodic and harmonic elements in jazz. Those started turning up in the pop music of the time.
"The chords were the same, but the progressions were becoming more adventurous. And I also got into the blues, the direct energy of it all."
All those elements began to show up in Steely Dan's music in the next decade. The introductory riff from one of it's biggest hits, "Rikki Don't Lose That Number," was drawn from a composition by hard-bop pianist Horace Silver; "Parker's Band" saluted jazz innovator Charlie Parker; and "East St. Toodle-OO] was a dextrous reading of a Duke Ellington original.
The duo's jazz obsession, Fagen's frequently cynical lyrics, even it's name-drawn from a William Burroughs novel-gave Steely Dan a collegiate hipster veneer that turned off some critics.
But there's no denying the duo's intellect and inventiveness, how they managed to succeed as a pop band even as they thumbed their noses as pop convention.
" I hear records a certain way because I grew up a jazz fan," Fagen says. " I like a much drier sound, more up-front and direct, than is the norm in pop music."
" I don't have a car, but I hear pop radio in cabs, these little messages of what's going on. At home, I mostly listen to old jazz, blues and soul, because the mixes on these new records are so ugly I can't listen to them. Everything is so grandiose, with huge amounts of echo. So many *things* are used, like drum machines, without trying to make them sound musical. Because there's no soul in these machines, engineers try to compensate with massive amounts of reverb (echo)."
It sounds like Fagen's new album, a song cycle that he says will be similar in format to "The Nightfly," will be firmly in the Steely Dan tradition: pop that doesn't pander.
As Fagen says, "I just think we always had a different set of priorities."
-30-
I should point out that I'm not nuts about Kot--he tends to prefer New Wave and 80s; he also is prone to missing some details about Steely Dan and admits that he doesn't know much about Jazz beyond Vince Guaraldi's "Charlie Brown Christmas" and Dave Brubeck's "Time Out." He dissed 2vN and TAN. So that might give some perspective. So who knows what Kot left out of the interview or what the spin on DF's actual words might have been.
jim
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 17:51:48 ET
Posted by: FACW,
Last thing - Blake Edward's wife Julie Andrews has a "major wardrobe malfunction" as a protest against the Mary Poppins/Sound of Music typecasting. They're'pretty damn nice.
Hard to believe now, but the boob shot was quite a bit of controversy - and Hollywood was also pissed about the movie because it was too close to the truth.
Hollywood, I know your middle name...
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 17:46:57 ET
Posted by: FACW,
Drew - yeah, Gaucho's more like SOB than The Player. Sardonic rather than cynical
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 17:44:47 ET
Posted by: FACW,
Chrysler: Let's not sell My Rival short ;-) Aren't there 2 instrumental breaks? - tI guess it's semantics, but I don't think of those as bridges - but they are great. I hear [C] as a "lead-in" to the instrumental breaks and the outtro fade-out more like a bridge or connection.
I think it's
A B A C I A C I A C outtro - kinda cool construction
[A]
The wind was driving in my face
The smell of prickly pear
[My rival - show me my rival]
The milk truck eased into my space
Somebody screamed somewhere
[B]
I struck a match against the door
Of Anthony's Bar and Grill
I was the whining stranger
A fool in love
With time to kill
[A]
I've got detectives on his case
They filmed the whole charade
[My rival - show me my rival]
He's got a scar across his face
He wears a hearing aid
[C]
Sure he's a jolly roger
Until he answers for his crime
Yes I'll match him whim for whim now
[I = Instrumental Break/Synth solo/horns-sax]
[A]
I still recall when I first held
Your tiny hand in mine
[My rival - show me my rival]
I loved you more than I can tell
But now it's stomping time
[C]
Sure he's a jolly roger
Until he answers for his crime
Yes I'll match him whim for whim now
[I = Instrumental Break 2]
[A]
I still recall when I first held
Your tiny hand in mine
[My rival - show me my rival]
I loved you more than I can tell
But now it's stomping time
[C]
Sure he's a jolly roger
Until he answers for his crime
Yes I'll match him whim for whim now
OK, OK Fagen's snarls and screams are classic. I guess I'm just whining about the [A] melody - but [B], [C], and [I] are tasty and they did get a hellulva lot with this song. We'll keep it.
ss: Damn, mebbe Katz IS da man?! - that's the best sounding track on the album! The outtro is to die for. Katz should have blown up Wendel and re-recorded Hey 19 & Glamour Profession, with Porcaro late-night 'til the sun comes through the skylight
Drew: "I believe that I was dreaminig, 'til the neighbors came out screaming" Oh yes - the urbane and sly lyrics have the jokes on the sleeve as opposed to the darkness of the American underbelly. Illegal fun under the sun. To me Gaucho seems more like Blake Edwards' 1981 SOB or 1992 Victor/Victoria. SOB like Gaucho is a real LA sendoff - the first 1/3 and the last 1/3 (where Richard Mulligan does a Weekend at Bernie's 10 times better than that semi-lame 80s hit) are some of the funniest stuff I've seen - the middle 1/3 is is a little slow, but good satire.
That's the thing. Gaucho songs are Adult Music post-modern style - satire in full bloom. Something that separates them from their rock peers - Steely Dan has always had adult themes and sophistication. But the lyrics in Gaucho are more linear, fully formed, more storytelling, truly adult. More like a Broadway musical set of sketches. Nightfly, Kama, the gritty 11 ToW, and TvN extend this.
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 15:38:15 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., Be glad if you can use what you borrow…
These items were in a "Newsmakers" column by Tirdad Derakhshani in today's Philly Inquirer and I just found them interesting, so thought I'd post....
[ Sony fails to get Milwaukee band's joke
In one of those David-and-Goliath matchups, Milwaukee rock band Beatallica has run afoul of music publishing behemoth Sony Corp.
Beatallica, as the name might suggest, is a tongue-in-cheek act that melds the melodious sounds of theBeatles with the hardcore, head-banging hammering of Metallica. But Sony, which owns the rights to the Beatles catalog, has issued a cease-and-desist letter telling Beatallica to take down its Web site and pay unspecified damages for recording and posting online such tunes as "Leper Madonna" and "Got to Get You Trapped Under Ice."
"I think they're being very shortsighted. The amount of income that we generate from this is minuscule. None of us are quitting our day jobs," David Dixon, the band's "Webmaster of Puppets," told Reuters.
Dixon, who has taken down the band's Web site while he looks at legal options, says that more than one mil copies of Beatallica's tunes have been downloaded. He said the band had consulted a lawyer to make sure it was not breaking the law and says his band doesn't rip off other songs, but parodies them, an act that is itself protected by copyright laws. ]
Hmmm, wonder if any Dan tribute bands ever have that sort of problem?....
______________________________________________________________________
[ She's no guitar hero
Yet another fantasy dashed: The queen of England does not, as we have so fervently believed all these years, spend her time playing air guitar while listening to old Led Zep records. That was evident earlier this week when Queen Elizabeth II greeted four great axmen - Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin, Queen's Brian May, Eric Clapton, and Jeff Beck - at a Buckingham Palace party honoring the Brit music industry with a "And what do you do?"
The always-urbane Clapton was more than gracious about the queen's lack of knowledge of such historical importance. "It's great to meet her, and it doesn't matter at all that she did not know who we are or what we do," he said. "I wouldn't expect her to."
Other musical celebs present included Charlotte Church, Cilla Black, Shirley Bassey, Roger Daltrey, Geri Halliwell and Phil Collins. ]
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 15:20:59 ET
Posted by: Paul, #205 in the book of liars
I'm not signed up for the digest, what's the deal with Feverdreams?
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 15:02:20 ET
Posted by: Bunny Rabbit,
To settle an issue shrouded in mystery, check this out:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_018.html
BR
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 14:10:46 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
1972 DVD by "PF" (Pink Floyd, that is) -- is that the Pompeii DVD?
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 13:02:17 ET
Posted by: Drew, San Luis Obispo
One thing I haven't seen mentioned musch regarding Gaucho is the humor in all of the songs. This is the funniest Steely Dan album (2VN comes closest). Each song is like a comedy directed by Robert Altman. Aja has a much different tone.
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 11:13:45 ET
Posted by: Douche, Recording Academy
Why oh why in the universe don't SD use more latin percussion like on My Rival??? Why not hire Cinelu or Badrena for a few cuts??
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 10:38:25 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
p: Who is PF?
FACW: "My Rival," as far as I can tell, has no chorus, unless you consider "Sure, he's a ..." a sort of nested (built-into-the-verse) chorus. And that part isn't the bridge-- the section with the synth solo is the bridge. The form as I hear it (this is from memory, now):
INTRO/ VERSE 1/ VERSE 2/ BRIDGE/ INSTRUMENTAL VERSE/ VERSE 3/ CODA
Also, anyone besides me hear the influence, or even direct inspiration, of David Bowie's "Fame" in the intro?
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 10:26:32 ET
Posted by: Another observer...., Somewhere oout there in the cosmic ether
"Writing about music is like dancing about architecture."
http://home.pacifier.com/~ascott/they/tamildaa.htm attributes it to Elvis Costello with an additional tag line of "--it's a really stupid thing to want to do".
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=461815 says it's been attributed to many, but will probably always remain anonymous.
A Google web search brings up the Costello one first, the other one second, various other references I didn't look into after that.
Bottom line.... It's a good line and somebody somewhere sometime once spoke it or wrote it. Good enough for me. Onward and upward....
:-)
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 09:46:12 ET
Posted by: An Observer,
Just fot the record, Frank Zappa made the comment about writing about music, not Mingus.
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 05:55:40 ET
Posted by: ss, hk
This is from a long piece about Jeff Porcaro, I think shortly after he died. Some of the things people who worked with him remembered about his playing and personality.
GARY KATZ
"We were recording tracks for Steely Dan's Gaucho album at A&R. It was Jeffrey and three other musicians. In those days, we would record tracks forty, fifty, sixty times until Donald [Fagen] felt he had a track that was steady enough. In those days ['79], we didn't use click tracks, and the kind of click track that was available, Jeffrey hated. We played the track for quite a long time that night, and at about 11:00 or so, Donald said it wasn't working for him. When that happened, it was usually the kiss of death; we'd never try the track again and the song would be lost. So at 11:00 he and Walter [Becker] felt they had exhausted that track and were going to call it a night. Jeffrey and I were upset about that, because it was definitely going to hit the can, and we loved the song. Donald said, 'Okay, you guys stay, and if you cut a track that you like, call us and we'll come back".
"We stayed there most of the night. I had a chart, and Jeffrey would play a take, and I would hear eight good bars - not that all the bars weren't good, but I tried to think like Donald. But I would mark those bars, and then the next four good bars. We did about seventy takes. We finally left at about 5:00 in the morning, and the next day I went to the studio with Roger Nichols and Jeff, and we literally edited this track bar by bar. I had all these markings on my chart...it was a fluke that I made a track that felt good. We called Donald, and they came over late in the afternoon and couldn't find anything wrong with it And as nonchalantly as he had left the night before, he said, 'There's another track.'
Sorry...no mention in the piece which track it was. Don't know how many he played on the album.
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 04:44:41 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Mingus was wrong. There is a long and storied tradition of music, literary and artistic criticism going back to Aristotle, Plato, the Ars Poetica of Horace; in our English tradition Samuel Johnson, John Dryden, Sir Philip Sidney, Alexander Pope, Coleridge, Wordsworth, the great Matthew Arnold, and in our lifetimes, Harold Bloom in literature, Pauline Kael in film, and IMHO the late Robert Palmer of the NY Times in rock. Criticism has its place; as long as humans create, there will be humans who evaluate. It just so happens even the best observers are sometimes proven to be off the mark, like Tucker.
So let the debate continue but let's keep in mind the difference between saying, "I don't like this," and "I don't like this but here's where it belongs in the timeline of music, art, literature." What I'm saying is that there is a place for criticism of the arts, music included.
In that same vein then, Pretzel Logic took the stage tonight at La Ve Lee on Venutra Blvd. and played their hearts out for 2 1/2 hours to a packed room. As always, our boy Stevee was marvelous, energetic, steady as a rock on the box, and guided the 10 other players through two sets of Dan with assurance and command, he's really a marvelous bandleader and in my mind that means someone who knows how to lead, is proficient at notation and arrangement, and also knows when to step back and let the players play. I don't pretend to be objective about him, but I promise you if you saw him play you'd be hardpressed to disagree with my assessment or my name isn't...the Rajah of Erase. Which, of course, it isn't, so you'll just have to allow me my opinion on the matter until you can dissuade me otherwise.
OK Pink, Metheny's band will be pulled off the stage at Universal around 11:15 PM tomorrow night, just in time for the Missus and I to roll down the hill and catch Keneally's last set. Whether I'll have the energy to do it is another matter. Night all.
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 04:43:23 ET
Posted by: p, ....and the bear got you!
W1P: I hear a lot of PF in SD. "You Got The Bear"?!!! Very PF!! No doubt!
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 04:31:16 ET
Posted by: p, P
W1P- I just got the DVD Of PF from 1972. AWESOME!!!
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 03:45:26 ET
Posted by: Dim Shady,
WHAT? My name is WHAT? My name is WHAT? DIM SHADY!
WHAT? My name is WHAT? My name is WHAT? DIM SHADY!
Date: Fri, March 04, 2005, 02:01:04 ET
Posted by: Clas,
Top Five - "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture."
Charles Mingus said that.
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 23:57:42 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
You Got the Bear/Have A Cigar. Anyone else hear it?
Forget Metheny, Mike Keneally at the Potato tomorrow night.
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 20:41:23 ET
Posted by: FACW,
Chrysler: The instrumental breaks are the BEST part by far of My Rival. synth sorta blues harp thingy, bass, horns all intertwined - a prelude to TvN multiple voices. Clever lyrics, but each chorus has like no melody to speak of!!! But then "sure he's a Jolly Roger, until he answers for his crime..." Now that's a classic Fagen bridge. OK, we'll keep it as a bonus, unnamed song at the end of the Expanded Edition CD (yeah, like SD would ever give the fans one of these!) if we add Kulee Baba, the original 2nd Arrangement with Porcaro (not the Wendellized faux Steve Gadd full length retry that's out there). Can't Write Home About You, &Bear.
Rolling Stone originally gave Aja 3 (of 5) Stars with the Infamous "Dazed at the Dude Ranch" review. I think the RS on-line site now gives it 5 stars...
Gaucho orginally received 4 1/2 stars by RS in 1980...since then revisionist historians have downgraded it to like 2 stars
My favorite review of Gaucho was a highlighted album feature by the venerable Stereo Review. The title was "Too Good for Common Folk?"
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 19:46:43 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
FACW: What don't you like about "My Rival?" I think it's as great as any of the other songs on GAUCHO, which is to say as great as ANY of their very best songs. And that ironically lyrical masterpiece of a synth solo!
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 19:23:03 ET
Posted by: Fith, 1977 Aja interview, also from Circus magazine
The Steely Dan Session
‘Aja’ Reawakens Fans, Fagen and Becker May Tour Again
By Bruce Meyer Circus Magazine December 1977, pages 35-36
They’re two of the most respected and successful musicians in rock, but if you met them on the street, you probably wouldn’t take a second glance. And with good reason.
Donald Fagen and Walter Becker have spent three years building a reputation as rock & roll recluses, known mostly to the beach freaks at Malibu and the squinty-eyed denizens of a dozen recording studios in LA and New York.
Even now, with the scent of change in the air, they’re making no promises.
But it’s beginning to look like Fagen and Becker – better known collectively as Steely Dan – will soon shed their self-imposed cocoon, put together a band and go out to meet their audience, face to face at last.
At one point earlier this year, in fact, there were concrete plans for a Steely Dan tour, in support of the new album, Aja (ABC). Sprawled in the California-decadent atmosphere of Beverly Hills’ opulent Hotel Bel-Air, Becker explains what happened.
“We had planned to do it, to tour, but at this point I’m just not sure what we’re going to do. The album was originally going to be released considerably sooner and when we finally did finish with it, the record company wanted to hold it for a while.
“So the tour that we had planned was completely inappropriate, because it was going to happen before the record came out. And we decided we’d put it on the back burner for the time being.”
The tour came closer to happening than it sounds. Becker and Fagen had already held a couple of rehearsals with a basic touring band, including original Steely Dan guitarist Denny Dias, keyboards player Paul Griffin and percussionist Victor Feldman. Now those musicians have returned to other tasks, but Fagen says they are “on call, if we need them.”
Assuming such a tour does come off, Aja (pronounced Asia) provides a key to the kind of music the audiences should expect. It is, like all five previous Steely Dan LPs, a collection of sophisticated pop tunes; but it is far more heavily colored with jazz than anything Becker and Fagen have done before and should appeal to the fusion crowd.
Becker and Fagen see Aja as the result of a natural progression in their music going all the way back to the start, when they played as backup musicians for one of the great third-rate bands of the Sixties, Jay and the Americans.
“If there is a fusion in Aja,” says Becker, “it’s not like we’re taking some jazz things here and some rock things and just stirring it together - and I think that’s how it’s done, a lot of times. We may have come up with such an album naturally.”
Fagen agrees.
“We don’t really have to cross over (from pop to jazz),” he says, “because we were sort of there already. Not stone jazz musicians, and at the same time, we were never really rock & rollers. It’s all been heard in our records. I think if you look back at some of our earlier albums, you’ll find things that are as jazz influenced- but maybe not as successful.”
True enough; the main differences between the music on Aja and previous jazz-tinged Steely Dan collection are not so much stylistic as quantitative. There’s simply a lot more jazz in this album. And a lot of the success of that sound behind the familiar, slightly skewed Fagen-Becker lyrics is due to reedman/arranger Tom Scott.
“We went over the tunes very carefully with him,” says Fagen, “told him what we want. And generally his voicings follow the piano voicings. He does have a very fine working knowledge of how to do the proper voice at the right time.”
“We’ve used horn players and stuff in the past, “ adds Becker. “And I’d say he contributed a lot more than any of them. Usually we’ve specified almost every detail. In Tom’s case, we’d give him an idea of what he definitely should and shouldn’t do, but that would leave a lot of leeway.”
When – if – Steely Dan finally do make their appearance on the tour circuit, it will be with more than just a collection of back-up musicians, though Becker and Fagen will continue their intensive recording-writing schedule and any musician working with them will have to find something to do with time between tours.
“We’re in the studio most of the time, “ says Becker, “and when we’re not, we’re writing. So when we started to work on the idea of a band this time, we realized that you don’t make a band just by picking up musicians, although we do that in the studio and it works.”
So the (tentative, always tentative) plan is to ease into the idea of a new Steely Dan band.
”If we’re gonna have it,” says Fagen, “we’re gonna have to start working with musicians on a sort of informal basis, to sort of work up to where we were the last time we had a band, before we can even think about putting it on the road. We’d probably spend a lot of time just rehearsing in a studio or in somebody’s house.”
The last time Fagen and Becker had a regular band, it collapsed under the combined weight of boredom and financial limitations. Jeff ”Skunk” Baxter spent more time playing with the Doobie Bros. than with his own group and made a lot more money, as well; now, he’s a full-time Doobie.
Fagen and Becker don’t intend to let that situation happen again – they’ve just spent three years proving their point to the music industry: if you’re good enough, touring is not necessarily required to sell records.
Which may be why, point proven, they are now on the brink again.
“Those people assured us of our extinction if we didn’t perform,” says Fagen, with the hint of a self-satisfied smirk. “But it hasn’t happened. We just try to make the best records we can. Because that’s what we really like to do.”
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 19:16:58 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Yet another Dandom Digest has been sent, this time covering February 26-March 3, 2005 .
If you are a subscriber, you should see it in your email box within the next 12 hours. If you don't receive it, please email me. Again, the main reason I am in the habit of announcing this here is because some people have been having problems with delivery of the Dandom Digest, usually because of spam filters, firewalls, etc.
The following are the subjects of this particular edition of the Dandom Digest:
— Donald and Todd in concert THIS SATURDAY!
— REDUX: Pre-Order Steely Dan Piano Jazz CD for $8.39+
— Re: Piano Jazz CD
— Two Joni Mitchell CDs with Dan Nods
— "New" "Yellow Peril" CD
— Re: "New" "Yellow Peril" CD
— Fever Dreams Site
— Re: Fever Dreams Site
— Steely Dan and the Rolling Stone Poll
— Re: Greatest Dan solo evers...
— Best Solos
— best guitar solos
— Best Guitar Solos
— re-guitar solos
— Best guitar solo
— Re: Best guitar solo
If you are not currently a subscriber but would like to receive the free Dandom Digest email newsletter (definitely not to be confused with the glorious Official steelydan.com or Official donaldfagen.com newsletters/mail lists), please email me or see http://www.dandom.com/dandomdigest
jim
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 18:55:50 ET
Posted by: Fagen Audio Crack Whore,
Rajah: I wasn't sure on CD, but the Gaucho outtakes and the DVD-audio release of Gaucho convinced me that
WENDEL:
Hey 19
Glamour Profession
My Rival
WENDELESS(ER)
Babylon Sisters
Gaucho
Time Out of Mind
Third World Man
DVD-A brings out the "wetness" in the real drums
Too bad the 50-74 min typical CD didn't exist. Yep, add
Kulee Baba,
Can't Write Home About You
Second Arrangement
You Got the Bear
and take out My Rival
and I too can go for it as Dan's best album
I like the songs in Gaucho better except My Rival, but prefer the performances on Aja
I dig Katy the most - the outtakes hint at the sonics that could have been...
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 18:10:18 ET
Posted by: oleander, incommunicado
Hi all--Having a spot of trouble with fever dreams & email.... Stay tuned, and it will be back....
o
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 16:27:46 ET
Posted by: Hank Silvers, c/o Hugo Spaak
Funny thing is, Ken Tucker called it. Not the Aja review, but in his Royal Scam review for Rolling Stone, he wrote that the next SD album would probably be a pop killer. Little did he know...
Aja: a defiant "I'll be what I want to be."
Gaucho: a resigned "I'm not what I used to be."
o: Qu'est-ce que ce passe? If I can help, let me know!
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 16:26:08 ET
Posted by: Sly, Montréal, Canada
There is a picture of Donald Fagen at the frontpage of this site for the next Saturday concert at Kauai. Seems a picture taken during a recent rehearsal for this concert...
http://www.kauaiworld.com/
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 15:38:37 ET
Posted by: TopFive, West of Hollywood
Regarding Ken Tucker's "Aja" review:
Okay, so Ken writes well. He demonstrates a firm grasp of the English langauge and has the wounded critic persona down pat.
The problem is, he's a terrible music critic. One glaring example jumps out from his review: "... the perky organ fills in 'Black Cow' ..." Um, *I* got the news for you, Kenny-boy: There aren't any organ fills in "Black Cow" -- perky or otherwise. In fact, there's no organ on the track at all. Electric piano and clavinet, but nary an organ.
Which brings me to my big gripe about the review: If he doesn't have the ear to be able to discern a relatively simple difference in common musical instruments, what right does he have to slam ANY collection of songs, much less something like "Aja," which obviously appeals to more sophisticated, discriminating tastes.
It all goes back to the immortal words of Frank Zappa: "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture."
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 15:18:13 ET
Posted by: EDB, SENSORY DEPRIVATION
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/03/03/taste.sounds.reut/index.html
check this out
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 10:58:55 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., A mix of elegance and function…
Found this announcement of the Princeville charity gig this morning at...
http://www.kauaiworld.com/articles/2005/03/03/news/news01.txt
There's also an phone number (no area code) for info given there if anyone is interested.
______________________________________________________________________
>>> All-star band plays Princeville Saturday night <<<
By The Garden Island
Members of Kula Elementary School's Fund-raising Committee are hosting a live auction and concert this Saturday at 7 p.m. at the Princeville Resort ballroom, featuring singer-songwriter Donald Fagen of Steely Dan fame, Toni Childs, Todd Rundgren, and many others.
The artists, including Grammy-award winning slack-key guitarist Ken Emerson of Kalihiwai, will perform individually, and join forces for an all-star jam.
At a rehearsal at a Kilauea home yesterday, most of the players except Rundgren, a Princeville resident, were present. He is on tour on the Mainland. Michele Rundgren, his wife, joined the all-star cast that included Tris Imboden, drummer for Chicago, and many others. They are calling themselves "Kula Jam." Emerson, fresh from attending the Grammy Awards gala and performing nearly nonstop in the San Francisco Bay Area after the Grammy festivities, came home to find he had to learn around 14 new songs in order to join the band, he said.
Tickets for the event, which is to raise funds for a new, permanent home for Kula Elementary School in Kilauea, are $50 and $75, and are on sale at Papaya's Natural Foods in Hanalei and Kapa‘a, North Shore Pharmacy in Kilauea, Hanalei Surf Co., and at the Kula Elementary School front office.
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 10:55:00 ET
Posted by: Yellow Castaway,
So, Bill pulled the plug.
Nice move, genius.
Is there any buzz around about the yellow being recesitated, or maybe brought back in another form, or is that it?
Also, what's going on with oleander's feverdreams site?
One day I pop in, and suddenly things are gone.
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 10:32:02 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
OK, that's really well-written, Ken Tucker has been an outstanding rock and movie critic for over 25 years, he's an NPR guy, New York Magazine, Village Voice, Philly Enquirer, first rock critic to be nominated for a Pulitzer Prize. But here's a quote from an interview he gave on rockcritics.com which might give us an insight as to where he's coming from:
"On an aesthetic level, I had always liked pop (as opposed to rock) music more than my high school friends did--which is to say, I liked Paul Revere & the Raiders' "Just Like Me" as much as, say, the Allman Brothers' "Whipping Post," but, until Christgau [Village Voice editor], hadn't read a justification for my instincts, or understood the importance of following those instincts.
Just as I had moved to Manhattan inspired by the poet Frank O'Hara's "Personism: A Manifesto," so I determined to do some rock writing based on Christgau's notion that, as he wrote, 'popular art was not inferior to high art, and... that popular art achieved a vitality of both integrity and outreach that high art had unfortunately abandoned.'"
Tucker got "AJA" all wrong because he gave in to his own personal preferences in genre, which is what we do here on the Blue, like I detest the Eagles and their faux-rock, but what, IMHO, betrays the objective standards that are the hallmark of respected literary, musical or artistic criticism. That review should more fittingly be classified as an Op Ed piece rather than Criticism. It's of the school of Gonzo journalism, heavy on opinion and entertainment value, lacking in credibility because of the very fact.
Hey, in 1967 the guy in Time Magazine thought Sgt. Pepper sucked. The listening public however, always the ultimate authority, thought otherwise.
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 09:30:34 ET
Posted by: Fith, 1977 Aja review
Aja – Steely Dan (ABC) By Ken Tucker December 1977 Circus Magazine
On Aja, Walter Becker and Donald Fagen have slipped into a steely donnishness. Every one of Aja’s seven long cuts is austere and erudite. And, as you might guess from that description, the album is not much fun. The only reason to bring up fun, of course, is to remind ourselves that these are the guys who masterminded such supple pop-rock as “Reelin’ in the Years” and “Rikki Don’t Lose That Number.”
But Steely Dan – now pared down to a pair, Becker and Fagen, and constantly shifting sidemen – have lost the desire to make that kind of music. Their last album, The Royal Scam, nudged their melodies toward jazziness, while their lyrical concerns froze into the quiet ellipses that were most compelling on Katy Lied. On Aja, one now finds an apparently forthright tune, “Peg,” that includes disco-like rhythms and oppressively “catchy” lyrics. This is a trashing of the commercial impulses that Becker and Fagen once cultivated with brainy pride on Can’t Buy a Thrill and Countdown to Ecstasy.
Even in the pursuit of an appropriate jazz aesthetic - an effort to strike a suitable dissonant balance between carefully charted sprawl and improvisatory concision - Becker and Fagen never achieve the thrilling tension that they made seem effortless on Pretzel Logic (which, now more that ever, seems to be their most satisfying and audacious LP). The descent from Pretzel Logic’s Duke Ellington embrace, “East St. Louis Toodle-Oo,” to Aja’s Wayne Shorter sax solo on the title cut is a steep one. Shorter’s solo, by itself, is effective in its politely oblivious way, but Steely Dan’s insertion of it into the center of their wearily oblique dirge is depressing, even infuriating.
Aja is crippled by its creators’ arrogance. Becker and Fagen have often been arrogant in entertaining and stylish ways. Donald Fagen’s vocals have always assumed the sneer to be the normal position for the lips, but, more often that not, he managed to twist his mouth into an inclusive smile and to enjoin the audience to smirk along at whatever he was railing against. Walter Becker’s guitar work mimics a dentist’s drill in pitch and intensity. The reward to the listener who accustoms himself to this guitar style is the extraordinary number of novel licks that Becker can play.
But now a lot of this creative arrogance is directed at the audience. Aja abounds in authentic Danisms – the perky organ fills in “Black Cow,” the whimsically obtuse chorus to “Josie,” the shimmering but pointless climax within “I Got the News.” But these once-useful trademark tricks are now employed as curt signposts to indicate whence the improvisation emanates and whither the jazz is leading. It is as if Becker and Fagen, their patience infinite, know that we, slack-jawed AM-heads that we are, must be guided gently through their amazing new revelations. This is condescending.
For such a meticulously made album, Aja yields little more that its makers’ seriousness of purpose. In short, Aja is boring.
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 08:35:14 ET
Posted by: Paul, Greenflower St
Fever dreams seems to be offline, anybody know the email of the webmaster? I might be able to help him/her out.
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 08:07:05 ET
Posted by: Howard,
Chrysler - you're right (3rd inversion). Temporarily lost my ability to count there...!
Clas - thanks for the pointer to Sweet's book. Was starting to go slightly mad trying to find where I'd seen that Maxine quote from Donald.
Sparkin' - I'm 90% there on working out the Maxine parts. After the recent talk about it I got fired up to do it, though it's been a big challenge. There IS a lot of dissonance. I think about 25% of the vocal harmonies have a semi-tone dissonance in them, and almost all of them have a whole-tone dissonance in them. Some have both!!! The "grad-u-a-tion" line is a typical example - I *think* the parts for this are almost an exact replica (apart from a slight change to the top line) of the classic Aja "vamp" chord (sax/drum solo bit), though the Maxine vocals shift the chord down a couple of times).
It's funny, Mike McDonald though he was having a hard time with parts that were too close to each other in Peg. That ain't nothing compared to Maxine: "Ok this part sings a C#, next part sings the D just above that, next part sings the E just above that..." !!!
Also figured out that nearly all of the vocals are in four parts. The only bit that's in five parts is on the chorus line "Try to hang on maxine", just gives the melody an extra boost here.
Howard
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 05:40:40 ET
Posted by: Clas,
B C E G?
That's a perfect and easy voicing for the keys:
Right hand, thumb: C B, index finger: E, ring finger: G
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 04:24:05 ET
Posted by: I Drove The Chrysler, PA
Howard: For shame, bud-- BCEG is the THIRD inversion of C MAJ7. And YOU should make this fatal error? Oy.
Joni: I defer to you, Eternal Caecilia, on the matter of GAUCHO vis a vis AJA. You are a thousand times right, Maharani.
Billy, Billy, we hardly knew ye; O how we pissed you off!
Date: Thurs, March 03, 2005, 01:09:27 ET
Posted by: Sparkin', hk
I find the drums the biggest difference in everything since Aja. There are exceptions - TVN.
People were talking about Victor Feldman's I Got the News piano. What about Ed Green's drums ? Not saying the drums aren't any good since...just seems more like timekeeping to me. Not as many fills (Kid C/Caves) and whether it was intended or not, some of the zip left after Aja. For me, anyway.
Raj...you really can't hear the vocal melody in Maxine ?? I'd agree that separating the vocal harmonies there is as difficult as it is on anything I've ever heard. I think it's intentional...and maybe deconstruction proof. Awesome...and if you could isolate the bottom two parts, say...it would be textbook dissonance.
I used to sing in a vocal jazz choir...harmonies up to six parts. Some of the best fun I ever had and a lifetime high to be surrounded by voices (23 in all). I wouldn'let be surprised if a vocal jazz arranger hasn't taken a run at Maxine. It's a 'natch. Our little outfit got stopped at Four Brothers. Hey, we were kids !
Good luck Howard. I'm curious to see how this plays out.
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 23:01:07 ET
Posted by: EB, SOMEWHERE STANDING ALONE
Ok...
I still don't get it about comparing albums or groups or individuals or
genres or whatEVAH.
But the Eagles...popular with critics sorta and popular with the general public. I never got them for some reason...after all turn up the eagles the neighbors are listening right?
But its my two cents...
back to being Ed
thanks
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 21:55:15 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,
Hoops, when I typed my post I was thinking Eagles HC and LR as well! It's an excellent example of 2 great albums with the follow up being a little more on the downturn.
Anyway, we've Tivo'd "Gidget Goes Hawaiian" and Rajah is mixing Margaritas. Off to the living room........
G
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 19:28:33 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Missing the point. These works were (at that time, I beleive it is fair to say) meant to exist as *recordings*, in the same way that Beatles records after 65 were meant to exist only as recordings. Remember the remark Pat Metheny made concerning being asked to tour with Steely Dan in 93? it's still on his website.
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 18:57:03 ET
Posted by: hoops ,
Rajah; goes without saying... :-)
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 18:48:11 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
EB - pointless, perhaps...but priceless...
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 18:44:44 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
C'mon now, Hoopsie, don't torture me, you know in your heart that HC & TLR cannot carry Aja and Gaucho's foundation garments...
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 18:42:20 ET
Posted by: ed b, @same place just moved a few beats further
Jim,and all my friends
I just don't compare and I find it pointless to compare artistic endeavours.
Music or otherwise
Ed B
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 18:39:47 ET
Posted by: hoops ,
I guess Ed's admonishing me. :-)
Actually, I think what Gretchen has written is closest to what I think. To add to it, I always felt the Eagles' "Hotel California" and "The Long Run" had that same sorta parallel—great albums that the followup maybe had a touch missing.
"Katy Lied" is on several counts my personal fav, although somehow, **both** "Aja" and "Gaucho" have this transcendence to casual fans—sorta like the way everyone knows the two Eagles albums above, or Van Morrison's "Moondance," Elton John's "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road."
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 18:35:39 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
Hey 19 and Time Out of Mind's drum tracks do not sound human. Maybe they sampled Gadd on 19 but it don't sound natural.
Aja isn't hopeful, it's just perfect. Salacious, ruthless, suicidal, isolated, resigned to its fate. Like Satan, AJA is 100& pure evil. But like the Satan character in Milton's Paradise Lost, immortal, strong and seductive.
Gaucho has a sort of self-reflection to it and as such seems more imperfect. You see behind those bright eyes and there it is: human corruption. But at least you're coming to an understanding of it whereas in the world of AJA you are in thrall and cannot see the corruption within.
Baba Reverend Arthur Dimmsdale Rajah
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 18:29:05 ET
Posted by: ed b, @somewhere on the road or is this my home
Hi,
I dont get it..
Why the need to compare?
Aja is Aja
Gaucho is Gaucho
Ed (who takes things as for what he percieves and doesn't compare) Beatty
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 18:23:18 ET
Posted by: Bloody May Day,
PQ: It wasn't just Carlton's solo on TWM that was recorded years earlier. They used the exact same song but with different lyrics. Ever heard "Were You Blind That Day"?
Personally, I prefer the original lyrics -- "I could swear there's no one there-er-uh" Talk about goosebumps! Does Donald get any better?!
Of course, Gaucho is my favorite SD album
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 18:18:53 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
I can't imagine anyone listening to Hey 19 and thinking for one minute the drummer is "Steve Gadd" as listed in the credits.
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 18:18:50 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,
.......You cannot really count the outtakes here as they weren't officially released. If Second Arrangement, Kulee, and Talking About My Home had been polished up and released, there would be no question of Gaucho's equality with Aja. I'd gladly trade 19, Third World Man or even My Rival for any of the outtakes.
G
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 18:15:22 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,
To me, Aja and Gaucho are 2 sides of the same coin, only Aja is uplifting and hopeful, while Gaucho is darker and more weary. They are both have the same sophisticated sound, with Aja perhaps being a little more pleasing in that the jazzy sound carries through every song except "Peg." (Getting ready to shield myself from arrows and daggers)... I have to admit I don't care for "Hey Nineteen" and for me it takes away from the pleasure that is Gaucho. However, the beauty of the title track and Babylon Sisters, along with the elegance of Glamour Profession more than make up for the one song I tend to skip over.....
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 18:04:42 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
AJA is like the monolyth in Kubrick's 2001, musically speakin it has magical powers, it is a solitary, unified, impenetrable mass, its density approaches one (density = mass/volume), its perfection defies most laws of nature, it's unassailable, the cat can't scratch it, bullets bounce off it. It is whole, it is complete, it is one...ohmmmmmmmmmmm. The lyrical content, unrepentantly decadent, is also rock hard. Behavior isn't questioned too much on AJA. Very little social conscience, it crawls like a viper.
Gaucho to me is a brutally honest take on screwed-up life choices, all human imperfection and all misguided: joy and expectancy over your own dangerous drug abuse(TOOM), love as a game for three (BS), bringing whatever kinky shit you do at home into the workplace (G), the futility of age innapropriate dating[!!] (H19), petty jealousy and game-playing (MR), callous infidelity and detached sex (2nd Arr), pagan blood rituals forgodsakes(Kulee), fear of those different from you (TWM), pushin dope, livin large and trying to convince yourself you're, "the one." (GP).
Logically, AJA had to have come first, just like the youthful arrogance of walkin on the wild side and thinking you'll get away clean comes first. Down the road on Gaucho you can see a lot of the thrill of sinnin' is losing its allure...what once were delicious vices inevitably become empty habits.
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 17:40:19 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Actually, SD was one of the only bands that followed a Phil Spector philosophy in the studio WHILE still making music that could be reproduced pretty faithfully to the record live, in concert, which itself is a double edged sword, but gotta give them credit for it.
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 17:28:40 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Gaucho is too surgically stitched together; Carlton's solo on TWM was recorded years before at the Royal Scam sessions. Too Phil Spector-ish. Probably the pressure to produce another Aja was too great. Wendel doesn't sound like drums at all.
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 17:09:27 ET
Posted by: hoops,
I guess I phrased it wrong. I shouldn't have phrased it as a "which is better" thing so much as I don't remember "Gaucho" getting ripped whereas "Aja" wasn't as criticized. In other words, I don't know that I agree with Joni Mitchell. Then of course, she's Joni Mitchell and I'm just me so she has extra insight into criticism and other experiences I obviously don't have.
Anyhow, just looking for some differfent perspectives on this.
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 16:29:29 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons island
Gretchen - I'll greatly appreciate any and all commentary. Whatever song list you can provide is wonderful. I've already heard some bits and pieces as to what's being played, but it hasn't been much.
Hoops - I would have to say that it seems like splitting hairs as to which of those two were the greatest. I also tend to put Aja in a slight lead, but then again, I love Gaucho every bit as much. It took me a long time to appreciate Third World Man. I first bought Gaucho on cassette tape when I was a sophomore in high school. Wore the tape out - except for TWM, which I used to skip all the time. It wasn't until AIA came out that I truly started to appreciate that tune.
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 16:05:43 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Hey Danbros and Dansisters;
I mentioned the Joni Mitchell CDs at Starbucks. For each song there is a short commentary. DF and WB each wrote one for the tracks they picked; Joni Mitchell had commments about "Gaucho," "Aja," and "Third World Man."
In each of the CD booklets, there is also another slightly annoying intro commentary that seems to be written by the same person who writes goofy Starbuck's copy along the lines of, "Starbuck's Café Verona blend is rich, warm, nutty, expressively romantic with robust eloquence and bouquet"—s/he writes that Steely Dan took "their name from a slang term referenced in William Burroughs' "Naked Lunch..." Well, you get the idea.
So Mitchell wrote the following which got me thinking:
“I never understood why ‘Gaucho’ didn’t receive the critical acclaim of ‘Aja.’ I’m convinced that if ‘Gaucho’ had come first and then ‘Aja,’ the same thing would have happened but in reverse. To maintain this high standard of musicality and storytelling through two projects is most praiseworthy—but there is something ignorant and arbitrary in rock journalism—editorial policy maybe—like, ‘We were kind last time, let’s kill’em this time!’ Or maybe it was like a second-date syndrome, where unrealistic expectations eclipse a plenty good reality. Of all the great songs on these two albums, the first to come to mind was ‘Third World Man.’”
I find myself going back and forth on this but leaning towards not agreeing with the idea that had "Gaucho" been first, it would have had more acclaim. Maybe it's that I find "Gaucho" just a trifle icy; maybe it's that opinion DF expressed that he also found "Gaucho" icy. Heck—maybe DF has changed his opinion since 1992 when he said that or maybe he was misquoted. Granted, ranking SD albums is more a matter of teeny degrees in the range of greatness, but ultimately, as amazingly great as "Gaucho" is, I find "Aja" sublimely greatest. To be honest, I thought that rock journalism were about equally kind/unkind to both albums. ( I mean I was in my reviews of both in my School newspaper ;-) )
What's your take, Dandom?
jim
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 15:35:29 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,
Josey, you will get a full report, although I'm not as good with matching Metheney's songs to albums as I am with other bands. I love the new one, very retro fusion-y, IMHO, but not the kind of live show where I'd risk the tube top trick. Perhaps that is best left for Donald!
G
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 15:14:00 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons island
Rajah - I knew I could count on you!! In particular, I'm anxious to find out if they're playing a tune called "Song For Bilbao". They've usually used it as one of the encores in years past. I have found out that it's not one of the two encores for this years tour. Thanks in advance for your support!
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 13:46:23 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Josey - now would a pompous blow-hard like me pass up an opportunity to impart my drivel to all my dear Brethren and Sistren(!?!?)of the Blue, replete, as it no doubt will be, with all the color and pagentry you've come to expect when I set my Turban on "churn and spill?" Count on it. Especially now that I have my trusty handler along who can tell me what song from what album we're hearing in addition to helping me read the row numbers in the dark at Universal so I don't piss off the young people like I did at that unfortunate NIN/Marilyn Manson show a few years back. Our Grette is one of the few people I've ever been able to attend a live performance with and not want to just strangle the life out of, know-what-I-mean, like those whiny, figgety types you're stuck with sometimes? Not sure if she can say the same for me, but while she doesn't tap her toe, snap her fingers, shake her moneymaker or rip off her tube-top while dancing wildly before the stage (at least she hasn't displayed this sort of behavior as yet, we'll see what happens when Donald tours in due course), she's better than a printed setlist.
Howard, something tells me that Donald just started crooning harmony overdubs on Maxine and after about forty-twelve takes totally forgot the key he started in, cause I can't decide what the dominant voice is singing, in fact, I really don't hear a dominant voice or key.
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 10:13:44 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons island
Raj and Gretchen: You guys have a rather important show coming up in the next few nights. Can I count on a full review? How are you liking "The Way Up" so far?
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 07:50:18 ET
Posted by: C,
Howard - Sweets BIO page 166, says:
"...and confirmed that the rich choral backdrop of both Maxine and Ruby Baby were 'takes on typical four and five-part harmony of the period'".
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 07:27:16 ET
Posted by: Howard, putting down his sandwich for a moment...
SS - if you only played the [B C E G] part then, yes that would be the 4th inversion of Cmaj7. If you play it with a C bass note underneath, then it's plain Cmaj7.
Maybe the way I wrote it out originally ("[C B C E G] maj7") caused confusion. This is definitely a Cmaj7 chord!
Major Dude - although they're not perfect, I'd definitely recommend getting either the "Art of Steely Dan" book, or the "Just the riffs - for piano" SD songbook. That will give you plenty to try out. More info from my songbooks page if you need it (http://www.jmdl.com/howard/steelydan/songbooks.html)
Now a question on Maxine. I've been listening through to the vocals in detail, and have figured quite a lot of the parts out. First question is - what key is Maxine in? I think the piano intro is misleading, as there are clearly some points where your sense of "home key" shifts, so I'm trying to figure out the key based on the chords for the main body of the song. There's clearly a shift in the "Mexico city" bridge, but what about the main verse/chorus parts? It always feels like you're likely to get to the home key soon, and yet you never feel that you do! What's the damn key?
My best guess is G major. If you imagine completely killing the song by switching a few chords, and over "Try to hang on Maxine", instead of:
Am7 Em9 etc
you instead play: Am7 C/D D9 Gmaj7
that sounds like quite a satisfying cadence, and G feels like the home chord. Any other suggestions?
Interestingly, the final chord of the song is a Gmaj7 kind of thing, though the lead up to this feels like you go through several key shifts on the way.
Second question - I could swear I've read a comment by Donald on the vocal parts to Maxine, where he says it was his take on "those old-fashioned 4 and 5-part vocals", or something like that. I've searched the net but no joy - does anyone remember him talking about this? Maybe it's in Sweet's book?
Howard
Date: Wed, March 02, 2005, 02:42:46 ET
Posted by: C,
What Howard means, and he is soon in from lunch, is;
the C is the lowest note. If it's a bass-tone depends on where on the keys/guitar you're playing it.
And I have played C major chords since 1969 and I have never seen a voicing like that one below.
Very snazzy.
Date: Tues, March 01, 2005, 22:47:28 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', HK
'FACW - you mean, what Dan songs is that dissonant [C B C E G] maj7 voicing used in?'
Howard, if the first C is the bass note, would the B C E G not be an inversion of the c maj 7 chord ? (4th position ? ) Curious to know - not trying to split hairs here.
Date: Tues, March 01, 2005, 17:21:58 ET
Posted by: Rajah, Reserving my seat at the Rapture
Jeepers, I'm picking out my outfits for Paladino-stock right now, let's see, what DO you wear to a function falling somewhere between 48-hour big-rigg tractor pull rodeo and nuclear holocaust?
Wait a sec, Iain Ashley...I dated a girl named Iain Ashley in '92...least I think she was a girl, she had bumps and everything, hunh, told me her name used to be Sunny Bliss in the 70s. Shame about her, ran off with a French mime troupe as I recall.
I'll kick off March by shaving down and donning my low-rider buttcrack leather pants and matching chrome "BITCH" belt-buckle to the Pretzel Logic show this Thursday, March 3rd, at La Ve Lee on Ventura Blvd., first set starts around 8:30-somethingish.
Baba Pass the Peppermint Depilatory Rajah
Date: Tues, March 01, 2005, 15:03:14 ET
Posted by: Weekend @ Paladinos!, Tarzana, Baby
This is just too funny. So March 25 and March 26 is a "dream" weekend at Paladino's (if there is such a thing). First, on Friday night Which One's Pink? teams up with "Yesterday's Child" (who focus on classic rock from the late 60s and early 70s -- Hendrix, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, Deep Purple) for a long night of insanity. Then on Saturday, comes Dr. Wu who are playing a bill with, get this, "Iain Ashley Hersey" - featuring Swan from Led Zepagain and Graham Bonnet from Rainbow, MSG and Alcatrazz. My gawd, the apocalypse is upon us. Dr. Gene Scott would be able to identify these events in the Book of Revelations.
Date: Tues, March 01, 2005, 14:18:40 ET
Posted by: angel,
Hey Corpsy V: Great find!
Make sure you scroll down Carolyn's new home page, to see Donald Fagen's very cool comment at the bottom.
Date: Tues, March 01, 2005, 13:05:57 ET
Posted by: Corpsy V, 8th Day Mountain
Carolyn Leonhart launched a NEW website, as an appetizer to the release of her album NEW 8th DAY ... thanks to Herb Sierra aka dr Wu ( http://damon.typepad.com/wu/2003/11/clear_as_glass.html ) for spreading the news ...
www.carolynleonhart.com
Date: Tues, March 01, 2005, 12:32:07 ET
Posted by: Rajah, L.A.
Howard, Black Cow just might be my favorite if I had a favorite. It's jazzy, it's bluesy, it swings, it's funky, it lurches and lopes, it stops dead still, it opens up and runs free. Recorded brilliantly with Donald way up in the mix, classy use of call-and-response with the singers, something Donald perfected on Pixeleen. The Black Cow narrative well defined and so economic. The protagonist sharply drawn as a deductive rationalist but not without his human side, a wry, tortured, exasperated sense of humor, resignation and finality.
And musically, what Donald does on his three variant readings of the end of the chorus, "...and get-outta-here" is genius. On the first two passes, he flattens, bends and pinches that last note within an inch of its life. Vocal dissonance, you know Donald uses flats and sharps, subtle little voicings at the end of phrases like no other singer -- beyond mere affectation, always with a sense of purpose, serving the song. Even more clamping shut of that last note on the second time through, clipping and halting it, retreating, signaling the approach of the bridge, a traditional vocal device from classical music that discerning singers employ, I love the formality of it. And finally, Donald delivers that last beautifully open note at the tail end "ou-outta-HEEEEERE...," it seems to stretch out endlessly, not in duration, but with an infinite quality in its tone, dissappearing past the horizon. Wow, thrilling, still, after all this time.
I know I'm beating this to death but Sinatra would have KILLED, RIPPED, CHOPPED and SLICED on Black Cow. It's like the damn thing was written for him, it's sooo perfectly Frank.
Date: Tues, March 01, 2005, 11:14:19 ET
Posted by: Spell Checker, Bleecker Street
Major Dude...It's spelled "BLEECKER" Street
Date: Tues, March 01, 2005, 09:47:32 ET
Posted by: Major Dude, live at five
Thanks PQ. I will try to locate some. I am pretty excited about it.
Date: Tues, March 01, 2005, 09:29:54 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Major Dude - listen to Dave McKenna solo piano albums to understand the way Steely Dan interprets, say, Duke Ellington. Also jazz pianists with a heavy, heavy church music influence - Bobby Timmons (Dis Here Is Bobby Timmons), Barry Harris, and Gene Harris.
Date: Tues, March 01, 2005, 08:04:32 ET
Posted by: Major Dude, Bleeker Street
Okay, I bought a keyboard this weekend and have played along with every Steely Dan song. I suck. I bought a teach yourself to play piano book so now I am learning the basics. Any advice for someone who wants to play some Dan?
I am hoping to hear back from Alan from down under. He and I were going to switch some videos and dvd's.
Date: Tues, March 01, 2005, 08:02:08 ET
Posted by: Major Dude, Bleeker Street
Date: Tues, March 01, 2005, 07:22:03 ET
Posted by: Howard,
Rajah - I agree completely with your comment on Victor Feldmans playing on "I Got the News". Brilliant, dissonant, funky piano playing...
That repeated spiky line he plays during the verse (e.g. during "you know how to hussle") is pretty dissonant, and the arrangement is quite sparse here so it really stands out. Great little riff.
Some of the other more free-form playing he does in this track really knocks me out, some beautifully whacky chords thrown in.
FACW - you mean, what Dan songs is that dissonant [C B C E G] maj7 voicing used in? It's used a lot - Black Cow uses that voicing in the Rhodes part ("and get out of here..."), though there's an altered bass note used as well. But it crops up in Babylon Sisters, and a lot of other songs.
hoops - thanks for the info on SD's choices on that Joni CD. I remember from the taxi-cab promo video that came out before "Everything Must Go", that one of them (Walter?) says at some point "down, down, down the dark ladder". With that repetition, I thought they were probably referring to Joni's lyric in "Cold Blue Steel". Donald's choice of song more or less confirms it.
Howard
Date: Tues, March 01, 2005, 04:16:35 ET
Posted by: Corpsy V, Berklee Mountain
Rajah, I remember that very well, especially the 'don't take money from a woman' bit ...
And for Paul in the laboratory, you can watch 1 hour and 47 minutes of a graduation class performing Steely Dan music and catch glimpses of DF and WB in the audience:
http://www.berklee.edu/commencement/2001/webcast.html
Date: Tues, March 01, 2005, 03:22:42 ET
Posted by: Heir Gordon,
As far as I know:
Fagen is working on a solo album.
Date: Mon, February 28, 2005, 21:45:36 ET
Posted by: Paul, An underground laboratory
Is Steely Dan working on any more albums? I just got introduced to SD and devoured my way through every album in the last 2 months...now I'm hungry for more.
Date: Mon, February 28, 2005, 17:53:40 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
Your guy John sounds good on that clip, Pink, when I first saw him onstage there at the Coach House I thought, "here we go, pretty-boy guitar player," but I was wrong, he had the chops and didn't hog the limelight whilst chewing the scenery. He sang well, he played well with others. (You know how some guitar players are...they think the rock n roll world revolves around them?)
Now why do you assume just cause we're Steely Dan fans inching toward decrepitude we don't appreciate the hard stuff? It's funny, to jazz fans we seem hard and to rock fans we seem soft.
Accept your fate folks, Steely Dan fans can't win.
Date: Mon, February 28, 2005, 15:49:58 ET
Posted by: W1P, Garageband.com
Gretchen, you're welcome (you posted thanks and it disappeared after Rajah posted a Mose review -- who you gonna call? Ghostbusters).
Which One's Pink? guitarist John Stack fronts an original band "Numira" I know the materials a little "hard" for most of the Blue but the Numira song "Fall Apart Together" is today's Hard Rock "Track of the Day" on Garageband.com Check it out if you're bored http://www.garageband.com/genre/hardrock
Date: Mon, February 28, 2005, 14:12:54 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.
Mose Allison played with an assist from a gentleman on upright bass, for about a little over an hour at the Jazz Bakery in Culver City, he's 77 years old, skinny little white man with an unbelievable playing style, especially wonderful left hand, all the fluidity and articulation of a much younger person, I know that sounds ageist but, hell, he's no youngster. Voice sounds just the same as he ever did colored as it now is with the authority of his years. Seventh Son by Willie Dixon, Rollin Stone by Muddy Waters and of course the Mose classics: Your Mind is on Vacation and Your Mouth is Working Overtime, Stop This World, more.
Donald's playing on Piano Jazz reminded me some of Mose, especially Hesitation Blues in that ragtime treatment. If any of you out there haven't heard the McPartland show and if you have an appreciation for the old standards it's going to be a real treat for you when you hear it, the record comes out here in a couple weeks, maybe a shape of things to come for our boys. Mose's lyrics remind me a lot of Walter, you know the Daddy Don't Live.... and Monkey in Your Soul stuff.
And he sang this one, which Donald quoted at Berklee a few years ago to the graduating class:
Donald: "This is a great thing, especially from a music college. We've gotten a few other various honorariums this year, but this is the best for us, because it comes from musicians and a musical college. To the graduating class, I just want to say, from a blues verse from Mose Allison, 'When you move up to the city, there's just one thing I hope / When you move up to the city, there's just one thing I hope / You don't take money from a woman / and don't start messin' around with dope.'"
Date: Mon, February 28, 2005, 12:37:51 ET
Posted by: W1P Bay Area Edition, Angel Island
I guess we don't have any NorCals on the Blue? Here's the most recent missive from Aja Vu
Kick off March with The Steely Dan Tribute Band, AjaVu at the Don Quixote's International Music Hall in Felton - this Saturday Night starting at 9:30pm. Come early for the fine Mexican Dining, stay late for the good music and dancing!
WHERE: Don Quixote's International Music Hall in, Felton, CA
LOCATED JUST 10 MINUTES FROM SANTA CRUZ
6275 Highway 9 in Downtown Felton, CA 95018
For ticket reservations and info call 831-335-2800
WHEN: Saturday Night - March 5th - show starts at 9:30PM
COVER - $8 adv./$10 door - Tickets Available at Don Quixote's
For more information and to learn about upcoming shows - please visit us at www.ajavu.com
Date: Mon, February 28, 2005, 10:33:22 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., You've got to admit it, at this point in time that it's clear the future looks bright.
Well, the Fairlawn bio page IS back. I had noticed that too the other day. The spelling variation was there from the beginning, though the LF bio link used to work regardless. Mr. Fairlawn has now corrected the spelling of his own name on the DF bio page and the link is operable again. Also, I'd noticed late last week that the margins were shrinking on text pages (used to be slightly wider than my screen size) and this change has now found its way to the Fairlawn bio page. So between that and the spelling correction, perhaps that's why the Fairlawn bio link was out of commission temporarily.
I'd also noticed the DF Google News group members count was stuck at 399 for several days---kept hoping to see the odometer turn over. Instead it's turned BACK---397. Must have been a couple bogus (or non-confirmed) enrollers deleted.
However, the latest dispatch from Mr. Fairlawn has been posted on the DF Google News group page announcing the "Snarky's Migration" Countermoon story-zine and related info:
[ http://groups-beta.google.com/group/donaldfagen ....
All of us at donaldfagen.com (which is to say, I, Lewis, and sometimes Chloe, the sandwich person from downstairs) are very excited about our new feature, Countermoon story zine. We will be presenting young, talented writers who require little or no remuneration at this stage of their careers.
In our first number we our proud to present Snarky's Migration, a road journal by Ezra Titus. Ezra's short story collection, Camping With Anton, was recently published in London by Orange Cornet Press. He is also a contributor to ruthlessreviews.com. So turn off the tube, settle into a comfortable armchair with your pipe and slippers, and connect with your server at this time, or try again later. ]
Date: Mon, February 28, 2005, 08:10:50 ET
Posted by: heymike, as long as they play till dawn
Sly--lewis fairlawn is still there. under "announcements" Donald once lived in Fairlawn, New Jersey (as a little buckaroo).
I think its him.
Date: Sun, February 27, 2005, 18:08:26 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, attention all shoppers
Does anyone get lucky twice?
A two-fer in Steinmart today. First "Tomorrow's Girls" and then, "Monkey in Your Soul." Both jazzy instrumental versions. I took it as a good omen and bought both skirts....
Time for the red carpet pedicure. Go "Sideways."
Oh...and Happy Birthday, Ed!
Date: Sun, February 27, 2005, 12:01:28 ET
Posted by: Q, TPA
TR rocks and is a very very bright guy.
I would suppose that DF & TR would likely get along well in the studio.
For me, TR is one of those bands(-on stage which he produces and constantly morphs) like the Dead where I only own one of his many LPs, but I see him every time he comes anywhere in my vicinity. He puts on a really good "live thing". His versatility and creativity are perfect for a fusion with DF. (just babbling here - no "knowledge" here...) Also, TR is very busy and motivated.
If this is the only way to get Donald on stage and "in motion" then, well I guess it could be worse...!
Date: Sun, February 27, 2005, 10:06:06 ET
Posted by: Sly, Montreal, Canada
Did you notice that the "Lewis Fairlawn" page has disappeared from the Donald Fagen's website?
(http://donaldfagen.com/bio_fairlawn.html)
Also, under the Fagen's picture in his bio page (where you were able to go to the Fairlawn's page) the link is not "Lewis Fairlawn" but "Louis Fairlawn"
Isn't strange that the webmaster seems to not be able to write correctly his name (yes, Louis and Lewis are like homonyms, but...)?
I'm wondering who is "Mr. Fairlawn"...
Date: Sun, February 27, 2005, 09:05:36 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', HK
FYI...Paul Griffin on Sign in Stranger solo.
Date: Sun, February 27, 2005, 08:52:33 ET
Posted by: Mike, New York
Sorry, typo in my last post. E-mail is: vanlosestairway@yahoo.com.
Sorry about that. Now I'll never hear from anyone...
Date: Sun, February 27, 2005, 08:50:44 ET
Posted by: Mike, New York
I hope this isn't verbotten but...can anyone point me in the direction to find something live from SD's amazing 2003 tour? Any info. would be appreciated. Please e-mail me off list at: vfanlosestairway@yahoo.com
Thanks.
Date: Sun, February 27, 2005, 04:03:07 ET
Posted by: Java,
Chrysler and Raj, thanks for the enlightenment.
Speaking of covers, it got me thinking about what would be a suitable song for Steely Dan to cover. Any ideas? Apologies if this has been discussed before ...
Date: Sun, February 27, 2005, 01:18:23 ET
Posted by: moray eel, Healing regression?
Way back when...
http://web.archive.org/web/20010331042412/http://www.dandom.com/
Date: Sat, February 26, 2005, 19:14:58 ET
Posted by: FACW,
Yeah, In Between Days cover is snappy - I dig the Cure, but I really like the take on the cover
SuperD is hard to find outisde the iTunes store - really eclectic EP.
Date: Sat, February 26, 2005, 12:59:38 ET
Posted by: hoops,
The two Joni Mitchells CDs we've talked about are at Starbucks in the US now. As you know, the "Joni Mitchell: Music That Matters Most To Her" CD features a Steely Dan track, "Third World Man."
But as also mentioned, there is another CD, "Joni Mitchell: Songs Chosen by Friends and Fellow Musicians." What I didn't know was that it would include tracks selected by Donald and Walter. Donald selected "Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire." Walter selected "God Must Be A Boogie Man." Awesome! 'specially love Walter's choice!
jim
Date: Sat, February 26, 2005, 12:10:36 ET
Posted by: Robert Smith, UK
Ben Folds covering Steely Dan is one thing but when he decides to cover the Cure that's something completely different
Date: Sat, February 26, 2005, 11:49:07 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, if you believe in forever
Oh hell, Q, we know how you play the game. But thanks for the tease...gave my brunch with Gina a little kick. Nice beagle, btw. We have a cat named Flash with a similar disposition. Yes, both endearing traits.
From a reliable source: "Blue" Lou Marini cited in St. Patrick's last Sunday. Practicing good karma, no doubt...just in case.
As for me, in Q (and SD), I trust.
Date: Sat, February 26, 2005, 10:11:37 ET
Posted by: Fagen Audio Crack Whore,
Q: Do tell. I'm tingling. Todd's latest album is pretty hip.
Any Ben Folds fans out there - he's releasing a new album "Songs for Silverman" in April. He covered Barrytown. That and Ivy's Only a Fool and Joe Jackson's King of the World are my fav Dan covers outside John Tabacco and Monkey House's Fagen penned tune..
In the meantime - he has some on-line EPs floating around. I highly recommend Speed Graphic with In Between Days, Give Judy My Notice and Wandering - great songs. A more acoustic piano, bass, drums wihout a lot of frills - almost back to the first BFF album. Style is more 70s singer songwriter compared with the 60s pop that permeates of Rocking the Suburbs. There's a LOT more Elton John influence than in the past. Ben Folds has become a fantastic producer (as can be heard on William Shatner's Has Been), and as a result his piano has never SOUNDED better.
Date: Sat, February 26, 2005, 09:41:08 ET
Posted by: Q, Down In Tampa - not so desperate & dark!
RE: DF/TR- there may be some real surprises in the offing!
And, I'm hearing this from my TR sources (I have fanatical TR friends, too -and it's much easier to get info flow from the TR fan camp than from the (in)famously tight lipped Dan camp!) - NOT any SD sources
Sit back and wait - IF things go off, I believe it will be a shocking but intriguing!
Can't wait for the DF solo album though!!! ALthough, really can't wait for SD reunion!!!!!! (IF???/WHEN???)
Date: Sat, February 26, 2005, 01:35:00 ET
Posted by: W1P, Hollywood
Monday nights: The China Club
The China Club band contains such luminaries as Steve Ferrone (Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers) on drums, Tim Scott (Jack Mack And The Heart Attack) on bass & vocals, Jeffrey "Skunk" Baxter (Doobie Brothers, Steely Dan) on guitar, Elliot Easton (The Cars) on guitar & vocals, Teddy ZigZag (Guns N' Roses) on keyboards & vocals, Lee Thornburg (Tower Of Power, The Tonight Show Band) on Trumpet, Jimmy Roberts (sax) & Nick Lane (trombone)- both from the Rod Stewart Band, Allan Kaufman (Smokey Robinson, Bruce Willis) on percussion & vocals, and Ollie Woodson (lead singer of The Temptations for the last twenty five years) & Bernard Fowler (Rolling Stones) on lead vocals.
Doors open at 9:00
vine street lounge fax: 323-468-0188
Restaurant opens at 6. For reservations please call 323-464-2345.
1708 n vine street, hollywood, ca 90028
Date: Sat, February 26, 2005, 00:36:48 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Yet another Dandom Digest has been sent, this time covering February 22-25, 2005 .
If you are a subscriber, you should see it in your email box within the next 12 hours. If you don't receive it, please email me. Again, the main reason I am in the habit of announcing this here is because some people have been having problems with delivery the Dandom Digest, usually because of spam filters, firewalls, etc.
The following are the subjects of this Dandom Digest:
— Piano Jazz CD
— Todd Rundgren and Joe Jackson
— DF project: Where is Walter?
— REDUX: Hammersmith Setlist required
— Re: Best guitar Solos
— Best Dan guitar solos
— best solos
— Best Guitar Solo
— Greatest Dan solo evers...
— Re: Best Guitar Solos
— Re: best Guitar Solos
— Best Dan guitar solos
— Best Dan guitar solos
— Guitar Solo's
— Stealin' Dan plays BB Kings in NYC
If you are not currently a subscriber but would like to receive the free Dandom Digest email newsletter (definitely not to be confused with the glorious Official steelydan.com or Official donaldfagen.com newsletters/mail lists), please email me or see http://www.dandom.com/dandomdigest
jim
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 22:45:36 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, .
SOH Karate - Well they were just another band out of Boston. On the road to try and make ends meet....
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 21:46:50 ET
Posted by: SouthOfHollywood,
Not quite sure who it was awhile back talking about the band "Karate" but I stopped by Lou's (the greatest record store on Earth) today and picked up "Some Boots" by Karate from 2002...I know they have more recent releases but this one seems to be the critic's choice...Anyway- Man, great stuff! Just a 3-piece unit (guitar, drums and bass) but these guys deliver the goods...And Geoff Farina's voice IS quite Fagen-esque (a younger DF, IMHO)...Slick lyrics and some great guitar work..."Airport" is just a killer tune...Thanks for the tip!
www.secretstars.com is where you can have a listen to Karate
SOH
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 21:05:35 ET
Posted by: Fagen Audio Crack Whore,
Rajah: Amen. You can't give Victor Feldman enough credit for the piano as not only a rhythm insturment on I Got the News, but a whole rhythm section and quirky jazz voicings. A real centerpiece of the song. It's quirky and jazzy, not in a Monk kind of way - very stylish, sophisticated but unstable, like a top winding down. It's a shame that W&D didn't go into detail about I Got the News on the Aja video.
Mr. Feldman's piano stylings on Sign in Stranger are another classic jazz/blues showcase.
On both pieces I can hear rest of the rhythm section (Rainey's bass and the drums) "listening" and responding like a conversation, not the metronomic robotics that swallow most everything after Aja.
Howard: Yes I get it - does sound like a Dan chord - what songs?
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 19:16:05 ET
Posted by: Chrysler again, addendum
Dagnabbit, Rajah, you beat me to it . . .
Correction: TWO to FOUR, SIX, or EIGHT measures of the rhythmic/chord/riff pattern would be a better take on the subject (actually, it could be irregular, too, whatever the composer has in mind). And it often is just drums & bass, or just bass, in which cases the vamp would be a rhythmic/melodic pattern only.
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 19:08:33 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA
I just received this e-mail -- what say you?
UMPHREY's McGEE tour dates in the SoCal area. From the InsideOut
Music site, here's some of what was said about UMPHREY's McGEE.
"Steely Dan and John Coltrane cooperate to honour Frank Zappa.
Mahavishnu Orchestra meets Scritti Politti. Dixie Dregs fight Police
with Pearl Jam. One can hardly imagine all that. Yet there exists
music that can hardly be described in a different way. This music is
made by six people from the United States who act with skill rather
than with a crowbar, and who obviously have a lot of fun impressing
their audience over and over again: Umphrey's McGee."
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 19:04:05 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
Java: "Vamping" refers to playing a 4 to 8 measure chord pattern (2 to, oh, maybe 7 chords maximum, usually from 2 chords to 4) over a rhythmic pattern (called a CLAVE in Latin music), over and over again till the actual song or tune begins; "looping" is an alternative term for "vamping." A vamp or loop sets the emotional character for a given song/tune. It can and often does contain melodic figures as well.
Examples (and in Steely Dan they abound):
"Gaslighting Abbie"
"Black Cow"
"What A Shame About Me"
"Time Out Of Mind"
That's a short list, I gotta go . . .
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 18:44:13 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
"Vamping" is a term from the Vaudeville and Burlesque formats of the early part of the 20th C. It had to do with stalling for a missed or tardy entrance by a featured performer, a filler. What the band played behind a stripper upon her entrance would also be a vamp. Perhaps its etymolgy is tied to "vampire" and by extention, the blood-suckin mama peeling down to her skivvies for the general edification of the viewing public.
As it comes down to us today, it's the repeating loop of a set number of bars the band plays behind Walter's band introductions. I believe Steely Dan has done an eight bar loop of rhythm backing behind Walter's narration, then the player he introduces takes his "four" or four bar little solo (Jim Pugh usually got eight), a stop time by Keith, then the loop resumes.
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 18:18:48 ET
Posted by: Java, east of Krakatau
Amen to that. The light is finally on! Now if someone could just explain to me what 'vamping' is...
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 13:18:09 ET
Posted by: Dave,
The thread on chords and voicings is awesome!
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 11:39:26 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Heya, Big Fan! Always good to see you!
The "Weekend Arts" section in today's NY Times has a huge article on Pat Metheny. "Listening to CDs with Pat Metheny."
Here's the link, although the print edition has some extra photos.
http://nytimes.com/2005/02/25/arts/music/25meth.html?8hpib
SoH; I get a kick out of that store muzak, with my fav being in Jewel (like an Albertson's) and they were playing "Rose Darling" while I was in the cereal aisle. I thought it would be a funny web page to list what stores play what Dan tunes. I believe the first time I heard "Blues Beach" outside of the internet was in Home Depot! And "Green Book" was a regular in that family restaurant, Boston Market.
W1P: Your posting about Mose Allison and also tribute bands reminded me how YGK could do an excellent Mose-inspired performance.
jim
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 11:37:38 ET
Posted by: M5, McPartland Mountain
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6825091&style=music&frm=lk_mizar5
... and it's available as a pre-order, the Marian McPartland Piano Jazz With Steely Dan CD.
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 10:54:32 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, still snowing
Nice find Hoops - thanks.
In terms of a DF Todd Rundgren concert tour this summer, Todd's on tour until at least May 21 with Joe Jackson. Tickets forthat tour were outragiously priced IMHO - comes from playing at casinos and small theaters - so be ready to pay. So no concert before this summer (I'm assuming Todd takes some break) and a benifit concert first in HI - is this correct and what we know right now?
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 10:36:57 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
Howard, thank you for your clear, concise and very nicely realized mini-master class on the subject of voicings, it's really where it's at with SD, each song a little puzzle in and of itself. I always learn a little something especially that there are almost as many ways to approach theory as there are to choose which notes to play.
I always thought the piano that the immortal Victor Feldman gave us on "I Got the News" was one of the greatest examples of dissonant voicings of chords, he created this oddball melody line within the rhythmic structure, a song within a song almost. So foreign to the ear of a rock n roll fan in 1977, it still sucks me in, yes, even after 20 plays so they'll be no bunging up AJA on eBay anytime soon.
OK Pink, Paladino's, maybe I was a little harsh, unfair even with my scathing but borderline hilarious take on that little hotspot. Giving it its due, it occupies a certain niche, it is what it is, bereft of any of the trappings and pretentions of "the LA scene," it has a deliciously low charm(!?!%#*!)all its own, preferable to that squeaky-clean and sterile place, The Knitting Factory on H'wood Blvd (I don't care how good their sound system is, the hardwood floors are buffed to blindingly high gloss and that ain't right). Dive bars are as American as apple pie, motherhood, brotherhood and colors of green and gray. Now let me tell you about my Paul Revere and the Raiders tribute...I already have the hats and everything...
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 10:19:45 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, more snow
Nice find Hoops - thanks.
In terms of a DF Todd Rundgren concert tour this summer, Todd's on tour until at least May 21 with Joe Jackson. Tickets forthat tour were outragiously priced IMHO - comes from playing at casinos and small theaters - so be ready to pay. So no concert before this summer (I'm assuming Todd takes some break) and a benifit concert first in HI - is this correct and what we know right now?
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 07:32:21 ET
Posted by: Howard,
SS - trying things out at a piano is a good idea. If you keep the same chord, keep the bass note the same, and vary the notes in the rest of the chord the kind of changes in sound you get depend quite a bit on the chord itself.
Obviously if you change from a 3-note voicing to a big chord with 6 or 7 notes, that will sound pretty different (true for any chord). But if you stick to bass note + 3 or 4 notes above, with simple major and minor chords, there's not a great deal of variation in sound - just subtle changes.
But when you move on to more interesting chords - 7, m7, maj 7, m9, m11 etc - then doing the same thing (keeping the bass the same and varying the rest) can give some much more dramatic changes.
I guess one of the big factors here is dissonance, and how many notes are clustered together, versus how many are spaced out more widely. As soon as intervals of a tone or semitone start appearing, thats start to make things interesting.
E.g a fairly normal voicing for Cmaj7 would be (low to high) C C E G B (octave between the two Cs). Everything is spread out, and the "narrowest" interval is a minor 3rd. If you move the B down so it ends up next to the second C (C B C E G) you get a strong semi-tone dissonance between that B and C, and that really changes things. D+W very often go for these kind of voicings, where there's a tight little dissonance in the chord (especially in Aja and Gaucho).
Howard
Date: Fri, February 25, 2005, 03:22:53 ET
Posted by: W1P, Paladino's
On cue, LA City Beat published an article today on LA tribute bands, focusing on Paladino's (Rajah's favorite Italian night spot!). W1P gets a nice mention in the article. http://www.lacitybeat.com/article.php?id=1728&IssueNum=90
Oh and Mose Allison this weekend at the Jazz Bakery, ya'all
Date: Thurs, February 24, 2005, 23:23:53 ET
Posted by: SouthOfHollywood, Wet Breakage, Aisle 6...
Donald Fagen, the official musical voice of Von's...
Tomorrow's Girls while perusing the finest of frozen foods...
A little smile can really make your shopping day...
SOH
Date: Thurs, February 24, 2005, 22:02:05 ET
Posted by: SS, HK
Hi Howard....
In the end it's probably best for me to sit down at a piano and play some different voicings of chords with/without changing the root. I guess what I really want to know is how big the scope for change in sound is when you move everything else but the root around.
I have that SD book with the first four albums in it. I'm sure you know it. Would you say the piano voicings are accurate enough to appreciate the SD approach to voicings ?
When I think of it....the piano part in Ricki (the verse) sounds to me like a very SD approach. What do you think ?
Date: Thurs, February 24, 2005, 21:47:35 ET
Posted by: h,
Fans of "Green Book" will want to check out today's NY Times Business Section where they have an article about a cyberbabe/cyberwife you can download named "Vivienne." You will need a 3G telephone tho.
Date: Thurs, February 24, 2005, 17:34:26 ET
Posted by: hoops,
"Jazz Times" has a story on the upcoming "Piano Jazz" CD. It comes across as if MP is guesting on SD's CD...
http://jazztimes.com/columns_and_features/news/detail.cfm?article=10337
Date: Thurs, February 24, 2005, 17:01:49 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
PQ: BLACK MARKET it is, absolutely.
1976: BLACK MARKET
1977: AJA
'Nuff said.
Date: Thurs, February 24, 2005, 15:12:59 ET
Posted by: shark deville, near the dunes
Re. Steely Grass (Grassy Dan?)
there is a nice bluegrass version of "Rikki" by a NC band called the Woodies. I think they split up a few years ago, but it's on their 'Out of the Woodwork' CD.
"Bodhisattva" is a great tune for bluegrass too.
Date: Thurs, February 24, 2005, 12:39:16 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., Libations, sensations, that stagger the mind...
"Daddy G - imagine a drink mixed with three ingredients. Have ten different bartenders mix the drink. While it will still be recognizable as that drink, each will have its own distinct edge. That's the concept of different chord voicings."
Ah yes, Peter, I take your point, but the real question there is after 10 drinks will I be able to recognize much of anything????
:-)
"Drink scotch whiskey all night long and die behind the wheel...."
Date: Thurs, February 24, 2005, 12:07:02 ET
Posted by: Joey,
" Joey! Still doing the nuzzling thang? "
PQ ....................................
I would like to nibble your elbows .
J. Fly !
Date: Thurs, February 24, 2005, 07:43:15 ET
Posted by: Howard,
SS - not quite sure I understood your question on inversions, though my original comment on these was a bit vague...
What I was trying to say was that if you only change the ordering of the notes in the main part of the chord, and leave the bass note the same (i.e. try different voicings), the effect on the sound is relatively subtle compared to what happens when you change the bass note (try an inversion).
So changing from a chord of (low to high) C G C E to C E G C is a relatively subtle change in sound, compared to changing from C G C E to E G C E.
This is a subjective view of course - but moving to inversions, to my ears at least, is quite a big change in sound. Whether you consider such inversions of the same basic chord as "different voicings" or "different chords" is a tricky one. I guess I haven't totally made my mine up on this! - but I'm inclined towards the "different chords" view...
Others may well consider different inversions as just another voicing possibility (rather than a different chord) - which seems fair enough.
Randy - I'd come across that chord generator site before, quite interesting. Not sure I agree with all the choices it makes (keep in mind I am a fussy git) - it seems to allow all sorts of bass notes, e.g. if you look for Bm11 you get chords with E in the bass, F# in the bass, A in the bass. This kind of connects with the discussion on inversions - but when I look for a Bm11 chord, I like to get voicings that just have B in the bass. If I want Bm11/F# or Bm11/E I could specify that in the search. Did I mention I was fussy?!
I have actually developed my own guitar chord generator program. It's not available in a nice interactive mode like the one you linked to, but I have generated output from it and built web pages around those. You can get chord shapes for any guitar tuning, but I've only generated output for standard tuning so far:
http://www.jmdl.com/howard/guitarchords/index.html
There are a little over 42,000 chord shapes listed here. I went to quite a lot of effort to make sure the shapes listed are all actually playable (some on-line apps require 6 fingers for some of their suggested shapes!).
It's amazing how many ways of playing a chord there are. I limited the output so you didn't get ridiculous numbers of chord shapes (just output the easiest ones to play), but I remember for Em7 there are at least a couple of hundred playable shapes in standard tuning (my pages list 63).
I also discovered a few really nice voicings via the output I generated (e.g. for Dm9: x x 0 9 6 8 or x x 0 10 13 12)
Howard
Date: Thurs, February 24, 2005, 06:52:35 ET
Posted by: PQ, Toronto
Mu - definitely more to Tabacco. The Octobra CD is awesome.
Chrysler - IMHO, this is "Zawinul, Jaco-ized" if that makes sense. You don't really hear this kind of playing from other WR bassists like Vitous, Johnson or Victor Bailey. Cf: Teen Town.
You hit the nail on the head, bro. On the last version of Pat's Yellow Book there was a section called Recordings With The Most Staying Power where I said exactly what you did - the influence of WR on SD is PHAT. Zawinul's use of the Fender Rhodes, for one thing.
IMHO the jazz artist that SD owes alot to, not necessarily in their lists of influences or what they say in interviews, but actually in their own music, is Cannonball Adderly. One of their fave players, Victor Feldman, was in Cannonball's band. So was Zawinul. *Everybody* and their mother started using the Fender after Zawinul introduced it in jazz in Cannonball's band, by necessity then you would have to say Zawinul influenced SD.
But I think it became prominent in Steely Dan around the time Weather Report released an album called Black Market, with Zawinul's elegy for Adderly, called Cannonball. But more - on this album there is a song called Elegant People. Listen to Shorter's sax here, then ask yourself how hard is it to imagine B&F hearing this tune and saying, "*This* is the right guy to play the solo on Aja." I would bet my grandmother's ovaries.
On other front, I am experiencing the new (for me) phenomenon of dandruff in my eyebrows.
Daddy G - imagine a drink mixed with three ingredients. Have ten different bartenders mix the drink. While it while still be recognizable as that drink, each will have its own distinct edge. That's the concept of different chord voicings.
Date: Thurs, February 24, 2005, 02:43:35 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
While we're on the topic of arranging etc.:
What I'd like to know is, did Jaco play his own lines on "Birdland" and "A Remark You Made," or did Joe write them all out for him, i.e., were those lines part of Joe's compositions?
Now that I've lost everyone but PQ, Howard, and Josey, what's the SD connection? Well, uhm, you see, er, Wayne played on "Aja." Yeah, that's it, that's the ticket!
Or is it more than that? Anyone besides me hear a WR influence on the later Dan?
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 22:57:02 ET
Posted by: FACW,
SteveEDan - good explanations - my fingers are too damn short for some of those inversions on piano - that's why it's often something associated with the guitar
down in Tampa - my friend Q! - hey to the Continuum, Snarky.
John Tobacco's cov eres of the Pre-Dan tunes are Da Bomb! There's more, eh?
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 22:10:07 ET
Posted by: SS, Hong Kong
Howard..makes sense that if you add a note,or take one away from a chord,you're left with another chord and it's not a question of a voicing but of calling that new group of notes by its new chord name.
I'm curious though on inversions. You were suggesting the root stay the same and that everything above it can change, or be doubled or tripled, etc. And if the root is changed, ie from a C to an E in that C chord...that the sound is changed beyond what might be called a voicing. I thought this might be prime ground to create different voicings.
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 20:56:57 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
I don't remember lunch yesterday, so I'll take potpourri for 50, whaddyu talkin 'bou?
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 19:34:31 ET
Posted by: angel, awesome verve and classic lines
Remember last June 16th?
I see a connection there.
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 18:48:25 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, .
Hoops - you beat me to the punch. I picked up right away on Ezra visiting "Q down in Tampa". As Artie Johnson used to say "Hmmmmmmm....very interesting". I'm thinking a private yard sale of Donald's possesions might have made its way down to Florida with the kid. Only kidding Q!
Mark in Boston
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 18:47:56 ET
Posted by: W1P, Slow Train Comin
What, Bob doesn't think that he'd have the courage to confront "the machine" if he were just starting out today? I guess Jakob's music is not striking a chord?
Bob, you're gonna have to serve somebody. It might be the devil and it might be the Lord, but you're gonna have to serve somebody.
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 18:36:47 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
The Dylan thing is quite mindboggling, it's not like he was the greatest tunesmith in terms of the raw music. I've forever been under the impression that Dylan's prime motivation as a songwriter came from the word, not the note. That's a really strong indictment by him and he usually doesn't talk a bunch of shit so, wow.
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 18:18:52 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Wow, Rajah...mentioned the Dylan quote about math and architecture on my students. They gasped and the head of the School was floored (He's a big Dylan fan.).
Went to df.com to check out the "Countermoon" bit you folks have mentioned. I didn't catch until I actually saw for myself that "Countermoon" includes a blog from back in January written by Ezra Titus, Donald's stepson. So I guess you've read "Snarky's Migration," which includes a trek through Ezra's life, moving from NY state to Florida, stopping to see Q along the way, (who also has at least one pet with a name inspired by a Steely Dan song). Q is, as you all know, Quentin Bischoff whom many of you know from the Blue and elsewhere in the greater Dandom. Interesting. Wonder if he will be including details about DF's album, tour possibilities, etc.
jim
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 17:48:42 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,
BOB DYLAN has launched a withering attack on contemporary rock bands in the program notes for his latest American tour.
"I know there are groups at the top of the charts that are hailed as the saviours of rock'n'roll and all that, but they are amateurs. They don't know where the music comes from," he wrote, adding, “I wouldn't even think about playing music if I was born in these times... I'd probably turn to something like mathematics. That would interest me. Architecture would interest me. Something like that."
Nice quote. I wonder what he means exactly...where does the music come from?
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 17:06:56 ET
Posted by: W1P, wch1ispinkATaolDOTcom
Those Pickin On albums are all instrumental but not Luther Wright and the Wrongs or Hayseed Dixie.
Rather than do the "obvious ones," I'd like to see the less likely tracks done up bluegrass
Glamour Profession
Don't Take Me Alive
Haitian Divorce
King of the World
Third World Man
Home at Last
East St Louis Toodle Oooh (ya'all know how I love this one)
Through with Buzz (ditto)
If You've Got the Bear
All Too Mobile Home
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 16:59:13 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ
Just popped back in momentarily to see if there were massive bunches of snickers and pshaws in response to my Moody/Dan Bluegrass posting.... :-)
Rajah: "With A Gun" --- Yes! Definite bluegrass material if anyone were gonna do such a thing.
W1P: Thanks for the bluegrass-related cover info. I've known of the "Pickin' On..." series for some time, but I've never been inclined to really check it out. For some reason I was under the impression that the series concentrated on mainstream country acts (Garth Brooks, George Strait, etc.) and were all instrumentals.
Don't have time right now to check out the sites you listed, but will at some point. And "Pearl of the Quarter" would definitely be another Dan candidate to for bluegrassing.
I could also maybe hear these Dan tunes making such a transition....
Dirty Work
Turn That Heartbeat Over Again
Rikki
Night By Night
Barrytown (Definitely!)
Rose Darling
Caves
Home At Last
Almost Gothic (Maybe)
Blues Beach
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 15:05:09 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Joey! Still doing the nuzzling thang?
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 14:59:51 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
But my dear J, Don and Todd wouldn't be playing the sports arena venues those monsters of rock would. It's sheds and under 10,000 seat music halls, I'm thinkin.
Bluegrass Dan:
Brooklyn
Razor Boy
Pearl
Pretzel Logic
With a Gun (could this be any more BG?)
Rose Darlin
Kid C
Everything You Did
Western World
Jack of Speed
Cuz Dupree
Things I Miss the Most
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 14:32:35 ET
Posted by: Joey,
" Being a promoter these days must be hell on wheels. The vast majority of 45 + year olds just don't want to sit on a lawn in sweltering summer heat no matter who's playing. The competition for people's entertainment dollar these days is very very strong. "
Damn Straight My Steelian Brother .................
ESPECIALLY in 2005 when you got the following artists touring the states : ........ U2 ( spring / fall shows ) , Paul McCartney ( fall ) , THE WHO ( summer ) , and The Rolling Stones ( fall / winter ) .
Ouch !
Donald would be very smart indeed if he postponed his solo tour until NEXT year .
Word !
J.
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 14:13:16 ET
Posted by: W1P -- Genre Bender, Wet Angeles
As the acknowledged king of all genre-bending tributes, I have a little bit of information for the Blue. As far as I know, there are no bluegrass tributes to Steely Dan (and very few tribute albums compared to, say, Pink Floyd). However, I do think much of the Dan could be covered bluegrass in fascinating ways. Pearl of the Quarter, anyone? I have mentioned here before that there is a Pink Floyd tribute album called "An Allstar Lineup Performing the Songs of Pink Floyd" -- one track of particular interest to the Blue is Skunk Baxter playing "Breathe in the Air" with Robin McAuley (Michael Schenker Group, solo 80s hair metal hit "Anytime, Anywhere") on the vocals. This version of Breathe sounds as if Skunk/The Dan had taken control of Pink Floyd! Of course, my friends 50 Cent Haircut also do a rockabilly version of Breathe on A Fair Forgery of Pink Floyd -- an excellent cover as well. Then there's "Rebuild the Wall" by Luther Wright and the Wrongs -- a bluegrass outfit from Canada. http://www.lutherwright.com/discography.php They have done a recreation of "The Wall" in bluegrass (complete with some lyrical alteration to fit their prarie version -- the Trial in particular is hilarious).
This bluegrass tribute thing is not limited to Pink Floyd or the Moody Blues. There's a whole series of albums called "Pikcin On" _________ (fill in the blank) which includes everyone from Floyd to Zeppelin to Marley to Blues Travler. This site lists some of them. http://www.homegrownmusic.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=LedPickin&Category_Code=Bluetributes
One of the more renowned bluegrass cover records is Hayseed Dixie doing AC/DC http://www.hayseed-dixie.com/ Sound crazy? One night, I was flipping channels and came across Shania Twain playing "You Shook Me All Night Long" with Alison Kraus & Union Station as her backing band!
And speaking of bluegrass/Dan connections (this is pretty tangential), the Eric Clapton Crossroads DVD has an excellent version of I Am A Man of Constant Sorrow by Dan Tyminski and Ron Block from the Brother Where Art Thou soundtrack AND Larry Carlton doing a pretty cool Josie (and Doyle Bramhall III (from Roger Waters 1999 "In the Flesh" touring band) is on the DVD too).
OK, enough useless information for one day.
Allison Kraus/Shannia Twain
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 13:59:19 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
Here's a very instructive little guitar site where you can plug in a chord symbol, de-tune the guitar in any manner you choose, hit the button and up comes all the permutations of chord voicings possible within those parameters.
http://sniff.numachi.com/~rickheit/pm/chord/chord
Underscores the mind-boggling number of variant voicings possible on a six-stringed instrument and, by extention, for any musical statement. Like which colors to paint with, it's all up to you. Some artists are content - and brilliant in their own way - at employing a relatively small number of colors. Others use all the colors they can mix, hardly ever repeating the same hue twice. And some artists are recognizable by the colors they gravitate toward, like van Gogh's yellows, oranges, blues - all his colors really, which he mixed in that signature fashion, his choices so recognizable as his and his alone to anyone observing carefully. Like with the myriad of MUs of Dan, great artists of vision develop a style all their own, inimitable, original.
So don't let anyone get away with telling you that Don & Walt are a couple of spastic and ineffectual tots sprawled out on the rug drawing with crayolas and fingerpainting in watercolors waiting for their schoolmasters to come in and lend order to everything. That is a very tortured take on their creative process.
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 13:44:22 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, at work again
I'd know if Countermoon is new but it's anatomically wrong. The cat is referred to as a calico and also as him. The Calico color in cats is sex linked - only females have the tri colored look. My mother always told me that my Pennsylvania German great grandfather who was a farmer always said that calico cats were lucky. My mom was not a cat person at any time in her life – we never owned one during my childhood, but wife is one and I had to bring home a kitten earlier in our marriage in order to save it (the marriage, not the kitten) We have had many since them and one prodigious orange and white female always had two or three calicos in every litter – and they are the coolest looking cats by far. Freaks of nature. When I informed my mom that Calicos were always female, she immediately realized why they would be lucky for a farmer – more cats less rats. My mom is a microbiologist and a pretty good geneticist – she taught me the punnett square at an early age and was quick to pick up the color sex linked thing.
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 13:15:31 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ
Wow! Thanks for the help, guys. (In no particular order: Howard, Sparkin', SteveeDan, Chrysler---hope I didn't miss anyone.)
Sparkin', your explanation of the derivation of the term "voicings" itself was helpful. As for being musical enough to know whether something is "right" or "wrong" in a performance, well I like to think so. I would point to my love of Steely Dan as evidence that you're correct, but then I have friends who would point to my love of Steely Dan as evidence that you're INcorrect. Go figure. I think it's just another way of saying "I know what I like." And since I like Steely Dan, I'm guessing that everyone around here will at least agree that I'm "right" in that at least.
However, I'm sure that if folks on this board ever had the chance to glance through my CD collection many, if not most, would probably recommend I be excommunicated from this board! :-)
Seriously, it's interesting to see that even among the musicians here (novice, semi-pro, or pro) there seems to be some degree of variation in defining/explaining terms. That alone makes me feel less dunce-like as I realize that musical concepts are not necessarily written in stone.
______________________________________________________________________
In a related (or maybe unrelated) tangent and to reveal my ignorance in yet another field I'm reminded of the 4 basic nucleotides (A, C, G, T) that are the building blocks of DNA. From those 4 basic units sprout the endless human variety! And no, I'm not a biologist in any capacity (what little I learn of such things comes from my love of reading science fiction), I had to Google it to refresh myself....
http://www.cancerquest.org/index.cfm?page=38
If such few building blocks lead to the endless varieties of life, how much more variety is there in music where there are even more building blocks (individual notes, not to mention the instruments to play them) from which to create?
______________________________________________________________________
Finally, to sort of twist this discussion in a whole other direction, I just thought I'd throw this out there....
Recently a friend of mine who's a BIG Moody Blues fan picked up a new CD called "Moody Bluegrass" and I borrowed it to give it a listen. It's exactly what you'd think, of course, bluegrass versions of well known Moody Blues songs.
Aside from the Dan I also like the Moodies and a lot of country music, so I was curious about the CD. (I'm not sure what that says about my ability to tell when a song is "right" or "wrong" musically, but that's another discussion.) Still, bluegrass in particular is not normally "my thing." However, I was pleasantly surprised by the CD. I thought the translations worked out very well. I'm not saying it's something I'd rush out to buy for myself, but if I were ever to find a cheap used copy, I think I'd probably pick it up for my collection.
I had some minor quibbles such as I didn't like the instrumental intro to "The Voice." (But once they kicked it in gear, it sounded good). I'm not sure "I'm Just A Singer (In A Rock'n'Roll Band)" really translates quite right as bluegrass. (It didn't sound bad, but it just seems like by it's nature it really shouldn't BE a bluegrass tune---unless you literally convert "R&R" to "Bluegrass" in the vocals.) And lastly, "Late Lament" ("Breathe deep the gathering gloom...") really shouldn't be spoken with a southern drawl.
Anyway, I'm sure that you musical types could have fun discussing the differences between the original Moodies versions and the bluegrass versions if you were so inclined (but I don't expect it and am not requesting it, especially since it's not Dan-related). I'm sure that a lot of discussions of voicings and chord choice issues would ensue. Not that I'd be able to follow any of it. I'm just throwing it out there as something a little offbeat, but in some small way relevant to the overall discussion.
If anyone's curious, you can check out "Moody Bluegrass" at...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4247134
http://www.moodybluegrass.com/
Hmmm, I wonder how some Dan songs (besides "Cousin Dupree") would sound "Bluegrassed?"
And on that note (pardon the pun) I think I'll just sit back and leave the technical discussions to the real musicians. But thanks again to everyone for the help in giving my a little grounding in the musical basics. Your humble student---Daddy G.
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 12:11:49 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, waterlogged..........
Do you think there's any relation to Cathy here?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7014627/
Just wondering........
G
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 09:28:22 ET
Posted by: Clas,
Yes, Maxine is a killer. The chords, the vocals, the lyrics.
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 08:10:45 ET
Posted by: Howard, PS
Still Sparkin - those Maxine vocals (4-parts) are amazing aren't they? I'm sure I've read a quote somewhere that says Donald thought they were the best vocals he ever did. Not only are the harmonies sublime (with quite a lot of "clustered", tightly-voiced chords as you say), but the tone of the voices, the mix, the stereo imaging of the four parts - everything is just spot on.
I've always fancied working out those 4-part Maxine vocal parts, but have never really had a serious attempt. When I retire maybe?!?
One thing I remember from the performances when D+W got their honorary degrees from Berklee is that I didn't like the performance of Maxine at all. First - it's an incredibly difficult piece to perform, so I guess you have to give the four guys credit for trying something so challenging, but I don't think they had the harmony right, and to my ears there was some nasty out-of-tune stuff in places...
Howard
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 08:02:59 ET
Posted by: Howard,
Chord voicings, arrangements, orchestration.
My take on chord voicings is somewhat different to what others have described. Not sure if there is a "standard definition" of the term, but this is what it means to me:
Different chord voicings can be achieved by re-arranging the notes that make up the chord. If you talk about *adding* new notes to the chord, as far as I'm concerned, you've now got a different chord - so that's something a bit different.
So, a C major chord must have the notes C E and G. One voicing of this chord is (from low to high) C E G. Another would be C G E. If you start doubling up notes, you could have C C E G, or C G C E or any one of a few thousand other possibilities. All of them are C major chords (same notes), but they are all different voicings because the constituent notes are arranged in a different way.
If you change the lowest note of the chord (the bass note) you then have an inversion - e.g. in the C major example, you could use either E or G instead of C in the bass. I tend to think of these inversions as different chords, but this is a grey area - you could consider it another voicing of the C major. The point here is that changing the bass note (using another inversion of the same chord) has a pretty big effect on the sound of the chord - much more of an effect than tinkering with the voicing, i.e. the ordering of the other notes.
If you added a new note to your chord (e.g add an A to your C major chord) I would say this is a new chord (C6). Sounds like some others might consider this a new voicing. Personally, I think its much clearer to talk about the chord type (C major, C6, Cm7b5, C7 etc) and keep this separate from the chord voicing. The chord type tells you what notes need to be in the chord, the chord voicing tells you how these notes are arranged.
Now - if you then think about what instruments play the different notes (Still Sparkin) you have another harmonic/tonal dimension to play with! Again, I would think of this as separate from the choice of chord type and voicing - it's a question of orchestration. However, when considering how to distribute the required notes among the different players, you might end up rethinking what voicing to use, in order to make sure each instrument is playing in a comfortable range, or to get a nice balance of instrument timbres.
Howard
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 06:28:52 ET
Posted by: Ouch, Hicksville
Track 12. Pardon the twang ...
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 06:22:29 ET
Posted by: Harm, Gorgo Twain Crossing
He's back alright. Yes, and what about track 11, Hit Man From Hicksville ... or the one before Seeking That Bitter Clown ... Enigmarushlupe Be-Bop & Staller Center Percussion Orgy Craft hahahahaha.
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 06:01:25 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Tabacco's CD is a total motherufcker. I had brief correspondence with JT before he split for Hawaii, though I understand he's back now. Seekin That Bitter Clown In The City!
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 05:50:38 ET
Posted by: Harm Ony, Gorgo Twain Crossing
That's the perfect cue to drop a line about John Tabacco's latest CD "It Wuz And Still Iz Late Octobra". HARMONIES. JT loves harmonies. And he's good at arranging. Pretty good actually. VERY good even. His Steely Dan demo track adaptations DO justice to the compositions, even though DF & WB abandoned the songs due to whatever made them decide to do so. All for the better, because JT's the Catalyst master whereas 'Oh Wow It's You Again" and "You Go Where I Go' are concerned!
And the listener has 2 discs to enjoy ...
http://www.cyber-songs.com/artists/jtabacco/default.html
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 05:43:49 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
Daddy G: To reveal the mystery of just why the term "voicings," in the Renaissance, most "serious" music was SUNG, a capella (voices only), arranged in four parts, or VOICES: Soprano, Alto, Tenor, Bass. When composing and arranging "serious" music for INSTRUMENTS developed, in the transition from the Renaissance to the Baroque era, the term "voicing" was kept, and carried on to this day. The idea of "voicing" simply means the arrangement, the position, the spacing, of the notes of any given chord. Those notes can be re-positioned and "scrambled" a whole bunch of different ways. Savvy?
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 04:57:13 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', HK
Stevee....just as I was wondering where you were on this...
Thanks for answering unasked questions about inversions -- that was next.
Clas made reference to Maxine earlier. Isn't that a great example of chord voicings ? Tons of choices on how to arrange those three (or four ?) part vocal harmonies. I've never seen a chart but the notes must be tightly grouped. I like those harmonies best in vocals.
Daddy G. -- don't sell yourself short. I'm not sure I've ever met a big Steely Dan fan who wasn't 'musical.' If you don't know why something is right, I bet you can tell when it's wrong. And a discerning ear is part of being musical.
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 03:35:24 ET
Posted by: Girlfriend,
"Countermoon" was not on the site earlier today, so, yes, it is new.
Prophetic words...think in the box.
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 03:18:59 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan again ..., And Furthermore ...
Who's got time to burn ?
I wanted to wish Walter B. and his "birthday cousin" Gretchen a very happy (and woefully belated) Birthday. (Bob Dylan sang: will you be forever young). This is not posed as a question, it's an ORDER.
Aja - I realize that it's a quite a long drive from the San Diego area to the San Fernando Valley on a Thursday night, but I and the rest of the band would be extremely delighted to see you and to meet you. You will find Rajah and Gretchen sitting at THEIR table right next to me (the crazy keyboard player). Lately, Rajj has been our Master of Ceremonies at the start of the show. He's quite good at it, as if any of you are surprised.
We promise to give you a very entertaining show. Basically, it's what I live for. Don't think of this as shameless self promotion. Truth be told, it could more properly be referred to as a sickness. And I am a terminal case.
I will invite SouthOfHollywood. Maybe you guys could ride up to L.A. together. Could be fun.
And finally, to my Dear Gretchen. What you said to Aja about me and the band was incredibly generous. I could never have paid you enough to write that about us. So, as soon as I can knock over Fort Knox or something I'll get "another" check in the mail to ya.
Thanks again - - - I'm YOUR biggest fan.
Stevee(OddJob)Dan
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 03:07:08 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, In The Music Conservatory (Sanitarium)
Chord questions ? Love it.
Voicings vs. Arranging (or orchestration).
Those here who have given definitions to voicings I think are correct. The way that I conceive a chord voicing is to think of it as a "choice" of what notes to include (or exclude) and also what inversion of the chord to choose. For the most part, these decisions come down to the personal choice and taste of the musician/arranger.
Don't let the term "chord inversion" throw you Daddy G.
A simple C Major chord (a triad) has three notes in it.
From bottom to top, the notes are: C - E - G.
Since C is in the bottom (or the "bass"), this C Major triad is in its "root" position.
You could "re-voice" this chord two ways:
(1) E - G - C (this is the same C Major chord, but it's in "first inversion"), and,
(2) G - C - E (this again is the same C Major chord, but it's in "second inversion").
All three "voicings" are C Major chords, but they each have a slightly unique sound.
When you add additional notes, you increase the number of inversions you can have. This is an example of chord voicings using a simple chord.
Now, on the subject of Arranging, or Orchestrating ...
There are many more choices for how to voice chords when multiple musicians are playing together. Basically, every musician except the drummer or percussionist (not always, the percussionist might on occasion be playing the vibes ...) is taking part in the "full band voicing" (or more correctly stated: the arrangement) of the chord.
Piano and guitar (polyphonic instruments) can each choose among voicings themselves, or in connection with each other. To this you would add the bass player's "bottom" note, then add individual notes added by horn players and singers.
All of these musicians combine their notes and chords to create the "band sound" chord voicing. The way that this band sound chord voicing, or arrangement, is arrived at is sometimes worked out by the band as a whole, or by an arranger.
The choice of whom is to play what is what arranging is all about. Different choices are made for many reasons. Sometimes the sound that can be created by the full force of a band is desired, so everyone plays that chord (or a part, or a single note of it), or, maybe a more tranquil and quiet sound is desired so maybe only a few people play while the rest of the band "lays out" for that moment or section of the song.
Another aspect that comes into play is the specific sound characteristics (timber) of each instrument that is used. An acoustic guitar or piano sounds very different than electric or synth sounds do. The sound of a sax playing the low notes is very different than the sound of that same sax playing the high notes. Which sax is chosen to play the note also changes the timber (baritone vs. soprano). Or how about sax vs. violin vs. kazoo ?
The choices are limitless. Different choices are used to achieve different desired effects. Musical Theatre pieces are a good example of many different orchestral arrangements for a desired effect. Another way to appreciate differences in arrangements is to listen to the same song performed by different people. Here's a blatant Fagen example: Walk Between Raindrops from The Nightfly, vs. Mel Torme's version of this same song. Mel's version is very "big band". Not only does this give you a glimpse into the choices that different arrangers can make but it's also fun to compare and contrast the differences.
So how do Fagen and Becker decide how to voice a chord or create an arrangement for a song ?
YOU THINK I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION ???!!??
(I was hoping someone out there could tell ME ...)
Stevee (where's that Holy Grail) Dan
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 02:09:33 ET
Posted by: morey eel,
@ df.com
Countermoon? Is this new?
m.e.
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 01:16:59 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', Hong Kong
So, if you've got a chord and it's a band playing the song, not one guy on piano or one guy on guitar, what is it called when you decide which instruments play which notes in that particular chord ? Is that a voicing issue, or an arrangment issue ?
Think of the last chord on Gaucho. It's a nice fat chord, and everyone hits its together. Keyboards and guitars COULD play every note in that chord. The bass player will get one note, if there were horns, reeds, etc. they would get one note of the chord because they play just one at a time.
So, there will be some doubling up on certain notes in that chord, especially if instruments that play full chords are indeed playing the full chords.
Then, you have to decide which range those instruments will play those notes in, right ? You can make the same chord in many places on the piano and guitar, with a higher or lower sound. Same for the single notes, an octave up, an octave down. So, getting back to that chord...who decides which instruments you will hear high, low, and inbetween, which notes will be doubled up, etc. I presume it's DF and WB.
And, is this then orchestration, and not voicings ?
Date: Wed, February 23, 2005, 00:16:27 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ
Rajah, FACW, PQ: Thanks for the help on the concept of voicings. Unfortunately I must admit that the malletjazz site is over my head as I really wasn't kidding when I said I had no technical musical knowledge. The only thing I'm sure of with regards to my musical (dis)ability is that I should only attempt to sing along with CDs when alone in the car and even then I have to crank up the volume just to drown myself out so I don't disturb me. I can't even play a good air guitar.
However, I do feel that you've essentially answered my questions as far as it's >>>possible<<< for me to "get" such answers. Usually I just scroll on by technical discussions, but just this once I thought I'd throw out a query as to just what the heck was being discussed. I took a shot. Thanks for the (attempted) help. I know my lack of understanding is due entirely to my own lack of musical expertise. You just can't teach a doodler to paint the "Mona Lisa".
Date: Tues, February 22, 2005, 20:47:14 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Being a promoter these days must be hell on wheels. The vast majority of 45 + year olds just don't want to sit on a lawn in sweltering summer heat no matter who's playing. The competition for people's entertainment dollar these days is very very strong.
Isn't it easier, or at least truer, to hear the tension or relaxation in chord voicings on acoustic instruments because the strings vibrate more naturally against the wood, or inside the piano? I'm way out of practice on measure and harmony, but doesn't the middle tone (third) account for what the chord voicing comes out sounding like?
Date: Tues, February 22, 2005, 20:37:39 ET
Posted by: FACW,
DaddyG: Here's a pretty good jazz site on voicings - adding or subtracting notes to a chord (2 or 3 or 4 notes, etc.)...I'm re-learning this stuff with my kids helping with their instrument lessons. Man, I wish it were like riding a bicycle, but alas it's not.
http://www.malletjazz.com/lessons/voicings.html
Howard: We're on the same page. I don't know if Fagen wrote out voicings, but I think he and maybe Walter (especially the guitar voicings) often knew what they had in mind. For example, the dreaded mu chords.
G-B-D vs. mu major G-A-B-D ...at least I think so following your treatise on the mu chord... Anyway, if you do them in series it sounds great!
Or the vocal harmonies. Michael McDonald's super tight harmony on Peg is a classic example.
Their percular and imaginative chords and voicings are why Steely Dan sounds like Steely Dan and not a Carlton solo album.
Date: Tues, February 22, 2005, 18:55:27 ET
Posted by: rising tide, Downunder
Name that pet !!!
Ok, I am guilty too.
I just acquired two new kittens, their names... Josie and Felonius
Yup, I know…
Date: Tues, February 22, 2005, 13:02:47 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Bienvenue <<FRENCHIE>>! I have heard of other fans naming their pets after Steely Dan-inspired songs, but not as many as you have. Looking forward to hearing more from you. When I was last in France, I only saw Steely Dan CDs in stores as imports mostly from the US and and some from the UK. Has this changed at all? Any French editons of SD CDs?
Regarding West Coast dates, etc, Aja and others, the guy who wrote to the Digest wrote again with a quote from Michelle Rundgren saying that they still have to get a promoter to buy into a TR/DF tour.
So IMHO, that makes it sound like a 75% chance.
Like some others of you, I will see TR and Joe Jackson this spring (in May here in Chicago) so between that and DF finishing the album, a TR/DF show wouldn't be until later in the summer, at least that's my guess.
jim
Date: Tues, February 22, 2005, 12:40:15 ET
Posted by: Rajah,
One way to approach an understanding of chord voicings is basically whenever you mess with, i.e., change the traditional basic western textbook chord structure. Take a simple chord in western music, it is based on a triad or three note structure centered around a root note. Change that chord structure in any way, shape, or form while keeping its root note and you will be giving it a different sound, a different voice, if you will. For example, suspending, augmenting, diminishing notes in a chord give each chord a different "voicing."
That's my understanding such as it is.
Date: Tues, February 22, 2005, 11:19:12 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ
OK, gang, please forgive some really stupid questions....
(Anyone who says "There are no stupid questions" never met me!)
Bear in mind that I have absolutely NO musical talent beyond the ability to play a Steely Dan CD on occasion and even then I sometimes sprain my index finger inserting it---the CD, not my finger! (Sheesh!) I certainly don't know anything about the nuts and bolts of music and musical notation.
In the discussions immediately prior I see the term "voicings" used over and over in relation to musical instruments. What is meant by that term?
When I think of "voicings" or something having been "voiced" I think of vocals or lyrics, not musical instruments. Obviously I'm missing something. Are these "voicings" anything like actual sheet music? Or are they like a stepping stone to sheet music? Is "voicing" a generally known and used term, or is it just a sort of shorthand you guys in the biz use around here?
I'm gathering that D&W pretty much whip the music out o' their noggins to begin with just based on their vast experience and a germ of an idea, polish it a little and make a demo version. Then it's sort of a team effort in the recording studio from there to maybe tweak it a little more and put it all down on "paper" (not to mention some recording medium), add whatever, generally edit it, and eventually have a shiny new pressed CD come rolling off the assembly line.
I'm just curious. The less technical anyone can be in 'splainin' it to me, the better. Thanks. I hope I'm not the only one a little confused by some of the terms (voicings, charts, chord progressions, etc.) being thrown around, but if I am, well, I'm pretty much used to that in my life anyway. :-)
Date: Tues, February 22, 2005, 10:54:18 ET
Posted by: Major Dude, live at five
PQ- Thanks I love the site. I am reading it right now....
Date: Tues, February 22, 2005, 10:04:34 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Hey Major Dude! Go to feverdreams.net and click on the last icon, the candle, dagger and flower. Steely Dan's NYness is discussed there but I was much younger when I wrote that.
Date: Tues, February 22, 2005, 07:48:41 ET
Posted by: Howard,
FACW - I think we see things in a similar way, though my take is that Donald did little or no writing of lead sheets (from Gaucho and afterwards this might have changed). Whatever he did write would, I think, have just been chord names - no voicings specified. The "transcriber" would have written out the keyboard voicings.
I doubt that guitar chord voicings were EVER specified on paper. All the guitarists who have worked with D+W - either for recordings or live work - have all said the same thing. They work from charts that have chord names, keyboard voicings and nothing else. No guitar voicings are ever specified. Quite often, the guitar follows the keyboard voicings very closely, but I think this was worked out on a case-by-case basis between the player and D+W.
I sent a question about this to Jon Herington some time back - his answer was (in relation to the tours):
"The charts for the tunes were only chord charts with changes and occasionally voicings (for keyboard, never for guitar), but I always treated the records as the starting point for deciding what parts and voicings would work best, and then varied those parts as necessary or appropriate, or when asked by Donald or Walter to try something else if it seemed to them that the overall sound required something different."
Still Sparkin - your question is a very interesting one! My own interpretation, based on interviews and having listened to some of the demos for Katy Lied, Gaucho etc, is that the keyboard voicings used in the demos were already very carefully chosen. In many cases they are identical to what made it to the final cuts, which I guess shouldn't be too surprising. The subtleties of the harmonies and the individual voicings are a crucial element to the SD sound, and in most cases I think D+W had already pinned down very specific keyboard voicings by the time the demo recordings were made.
No doubt there were some occasions where the transcriber (or D+W) would tweak the voicings a little (Carlton talks about "filling in the harmony" on the Aja video, in places where D+W weren't sure what to use), but my guess is that most of the time the keyboard voicings on the demo were written out almost note-for-note on the rhythm charts by Carlton/Omartian/whoever, and these were then followed pretty exactly by the session musicians.
If you listen to the demos from the Katy Lied sessions (including Black Cow, which obviously didn't surface till years later), and compare them with the final cuts, there are very few changes to the main keyboard voicings.
Howard
Date: Tues, February 22, 2005, 07:23:59 ET
Posted by: Major Dude, working on Gospel Time these days
Good morning Dan Fans. I had a long weekend (which I usually don't work weekends) and then Monday was busy busy busy at the radio ranch so I thought I would pop on this morning between newscasts and say hey.
It's cool to check out the weekend posts as I do not have internet at home.
I do have alot of questions but I don't want to come across as a putz. I asked on NYBills page about Bleeker Street and Medicine Park and other references to New York. I am guessing Fagan and Becker are from that area? hat is why it is so influential in thier music.
What were they thinking with Cousin Dupree? What a disturbing bunch of lyrics. What a GREAT song though. It is one of the slickest on Two Against Nature. The synthesizer almost reminds me of some classic Doobie Brothers.
I meant to tell you guys I went and saw Hall and Oates a few months ago in Indianapolis (I know I know, the tickets were free through one of our radio stations okay?)Anyway, Michael McDonald was with them. It was awesome, he still has it.
A freind of mine in Southern Indiana sent me a DVD copy of Rock and Soul review in NYC a few years ago. Was Drew Zing the guitar player?
They opened up with a killer version of Pretzel Logic....oh yeah.....
dying to be a star,
Date: Tues, February 22, 2005, 04:24:49 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
PQ: Holy Jehosaphat! Somebody get me a free ticket to Europe! Or at least a bootleg of the concerts! This I gotta hear! WOW!!!
Still Sparkin': I can't speak for Howard, who is light years beyond me musically, but I seriously doubt Carlton, Omartian, or anyone else (well, maybe Herbie Hancock or Gil or Bill Evans) could improve on D's chord voicings. Chord progressions and voicings are really Fagen's specialty, he's a master.
Date: Tues, February 22, 2005, 03:31:57 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', Hong Kong
Howard, referring to this part of your post:
'This demo would then be given to the appointed chart master (e.g. Omartian, Carlton). Their job would be to listen to the demo and come up with a chart that included chord names and keyboard voicings - nothing else.'
Do you think the chords changed at all when the chartmaster was finished with the demo ? That is...did the chords start simply enough and get more complicated as the process went on, or was the C.M. only putting down exactly what he heard ? And, would the voicings be what he heard as well, just a straight transcription job -- or anything added ?
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 22:15:52 ET
Posted by: Aja, up on the hill
Gretchen-got your e-mail and will call this week.
Steviedan-thanks! Believe I can get all the necessary info from Gretchen, but will contact you if not.
hoops-any idea when the tour schedule will be announced? West Coast dates?
Aja
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 21:54:50 ET
Posted by: Whitest Band, Tampa
I nominate Lobo
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 20:37:58 ET
Posted by: Fagen Audio Crack Whore,
Hunter S. Thompson's last column:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=thompson/050216
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 18:16:09 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Chrysler - get this, Stern, Minh, and Jeff "Tain" Watts are touring Europe as a trio all spring. Christ Jesus!
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 18:06:57 ET
Posted by: Chrysler, PA
Steely Dan the whitest band in the history of music? I guess that's why so many black hip-hop, R&B, and funk musicians dig them, word.
PQ: I'll definitely check out MINH when I get a chance. I have two CDs of Chris playing with brother Niels' band, one's called FRIENDSHIP and I'll have to retrieve the other one to get the name. Both outstanding, musically related to Mike Stern's vibe, incidentally; albeit a tad academic-sounding, like gifted Berklee student sessions. But monster playing and highly skilled writing.
Clas: NO ONE can come up with the sort of chord progressions and voicings evidenced on GAUCHO, NIGHTFLY, 2vN, "True Companion," "Century's End," "Big Noise, New York" and NOT be a trained musician, whether through school or self-study. Fagen is a GREAT musician, dude.
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 17:46:53 ET
Posted by: Peter, Brooklyn
J - wait till you hear the new Van Davis CD, and perhaps Ted will be guesting on a few cuts on keyboard, I don't know.
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 17:08:17 ET
Posted by: FRENCHIE, SAN DIEGO
My first post, I've got one for you. I am a breeder of French Bulldogs and AKC show exhibitor. I have named my pups after my beloved Steely Dan topics, "Glamour Profession" and "Bodhisattva". Currently Bodhisattva is the number 2 French Bulldog in the country. Their sire "Rock star Ricky", aka "Ricky" has other sons "Can't buy a thrill" and "Royal Scam". These names are registered names used in categlogs and for the record every time the dog produces or enters or win a competition. There names will go on appearing on pedigrees for all time. To stay on the SD topic, hearing and seeing them live could not have been more exciting in the orchestra section. I guess I'm a fan... a big fan.
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 17:06:25 ET
Posted by: FRENCHIE, SAN DIEGO
My first post, I've got one for you. I am a breeder of French Bulldogs and AKC show exhibitor. I have named my pups after my beloved Steely Dan topics, "Glamour Profession" and "Bodhisattva". Currently Bodhisattva is the number 2 French Bulldog in the country. Their sire "Rock star Ricky", aka "Ricky" has other sons "Can't buy a thrill" and "Royal Scam". These names are registered names used in categlogs and for the record every time the dog produces or enters or win a competition. There names will go on appearing on pedigrees for all time. To stay on the SD topic, hearing and seeing them live could not have been more exciting in the orchestra section. I guess I'm a fan... a big fan.
aj
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 16:48:07 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons island
PQ - while I'm not qualified to judge guitar solo's, I will say that "Pages" would have to be my favorite tune of his. What a beautiful song! Love Weckl's playing on that one as well. Track number 6 on "Odds and Evens" is also a definite fave.
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 14:45:48 ET
Posted by: Doucheboy of the Kalahari, Recording Academy
So I went and bought 3 Red Garland songs on MSN music. It's The Boston Rag, the piano in the middle of the song! This has been driving me crazy, but I read those comments that Walter listened to RG mucho, now I see Donald writing about Fega with a reference to RG, it's dead on point!
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 14:28:22 ET
Posted by: FACW,
C: They hummed mu chords in 4-part harmony (D, W, Dias, random backup singer) for Feldman to transcribe...
You simply can't get through Band in America without being able to read (and write music). My son is 9 and can write his own melody lines (but not lead sheets or voicings or harmony yet)
C, Howard: My understanding is that the process was somewhat similar to that described by Howard. Donald wrote scattered and bits of simple "lead sheets" with melody & chords.... My thought is that Walter helped with guitar voicings and solos and bass, but not primarily in writing - in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Walter couldn't read or write music when they started. Donald wrote with increasing frequency from Gaucho (as cited by Carlton and Katz) on, but largely it was simply easier for the musicians to transcribe, especially considering Fagen's handwriting scrawl. As Howard said - not that he coudn't - he could although not rapidly or efficiently...The recordings were a team effort, but the SOUND was theirs...Otherwise, how else could TvN pick up where Gaucho left off with an entire new crew? Fagen certainly wrote full charts on Kama, TvN, and EMG for horns (probably with the aid of a computer for the latter 2), and perhaps for the keys as needed where he might work with Baker, Bernhardt. I don't think he wrote anything for rhythm guitar on Nightfly or Kama. Carlton came in for a long weekend and laid down the guitar tracks on Nightfly.
I'd say Rest in Peace to Hunter S. Thompson, but he wouldn't want it that way. Probably Chasing Big Wabbits with the Rajahs of Erase somewhere in the Cosmos.... For better of worse, he and Howard Cosell changed written and TV journalism forever. The extreme version of the Imperfect Narrator. Today objectiveness is the exception, not the norm.
Steely Dan is truly the sly, subversive, imploding gonzo cousin of Thompson, describing the underbelly of America.
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 14:21:23 ET
Posted by: Douchehead Johnson, Recording Academy
Again, Red Garland shows up in the Steely Dan commentary. What part of a SD song sounds like those blocks Red Garlsnd used to play? Drives me crazy, especially since I read in the John Beasley interview he said Walter listened to a lot of Red Garland. God dman it!
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 13:06:10 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Best guitar solo ever, by anybody, is that? I vote for either Another Way Around or Pages, both by Mike Stern. And these are easy to find too.
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 12:45:59 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Yet another Dandom Digest has been sent, this time covering February 19-21, 2005 .
If you are a subscriber, you should see it in your email box within the next 12 hours. If you don't receive it, please email me. Again, the main reason I am in the habit of announcing this here is because some people have been having problems with delivery the Dandom Digest, usually because of spam filters, firewalls, etc.
The following are the subjects of this Dandom Digest:
— HAPPY BIRTHDAY to WALTER BECKER!
— Michelle Rundgren: DF/TR Tour this summer
— Marian McPartland on NPR, more.
— Setlist required
— Best Dan guitar solos
— Best Guitar Solo
— now let me hear the guitar solo
If you are not currently a subscriber but would like to receive the free Dandom Digest email newsletter (definitely not to be confused with the glorious Official steelydan.com or Official donaldfagen.com newsletters/mail lists), please email me or see http://www.dandom.com/dandomdigest
jim
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 12:42:28 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, @work
Via -
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/story/282797p-242372c.html
Steely Dan's Fagen
remembers Fega
By DAVID HINCKLEY
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Donald Fagen of Steely Dan wrote a lovely farewell to Mort Fega, the jazz host who died Jan. 21, age 84.
"In the early '60s," wrote Fagen, "Manhattan's powerful stations were blasting hard bop.... Out in Jersey I could get 'Symphony Sid' Torin. In the afternoon, I rushed home to hear WRVR's fabulously erudite Ed Beach. I remember Dan Morgenstern and R.D. Harlan on WNCN. But my favorite, along with Jean Shepherd, was WEVD's all-night man, Mort Fega.
"Mort had no jive persona to sell. He was laid back, knowledgable and forthright, the cool uncle you always wished you'd had. With Red Garland's "Mort's Report" in the background, Mort, with the grace and enthusiasm that reveals itself only in the most bona fide jazz lover, would list every soloist and sideman.
"Not so long ago, [Steely Dan partner] Walter [Becker] and I had a gig in Palm Beach, where Mort and his wife Muriel settled in 1986. Afterwards, we hooked up. He was just as cool and steady as he sounded all those years ago when he rode WEVD's signal through the swirling, bitter northeastern night."
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 12:36:15 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, Working on the holiday, why don't we get it off?
Sorry if these were alreday posted:
Super cool news to me that the SD Jazz Piano interview will be released commercially. Shortly after it aired on theradio I saw 3 or 4 older Paino Jazz shows for sale at a record shop and always hoped they would release this one:
http://www.billboard.com/bb/daily/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000799075
I'm not sure you can open this but if you do this young man needs some anger management - I felt like Bevis and Butthead when I read it - like he said f****** and Steely Dan huh huh huh
http://www.studlife.com/news/2005/02/18/Cadenza/Hating.The.Grammys.Made.Easy-869223.shtml
...Not that Steely Dan were particularly bad in their heyday, mind you, but they've been feeling all creaky in their joints for years now. I'd also like to take this opportunity to nominate Steely Dan as the whitest band in the history of music.)
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 12:27:07 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons island
Happy belated Birthday Gretchen! My apologies for chiming in late, but I've been laid up with a wrath of God flu for the past 4 days. Just starting to make sense of things again.
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 12:10:00 ET
Posted by: hoops,
New Dandom Digest coming out in a few minutes but had to give a heads up that Michelle Rundgren wrote back to a Digest subscriber over the weekend, confirming that the Donald/Todd tour is on for this summer.
jim
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 11:04:24 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., The things that pass for knowledge I can't understand
Thanks, Peter.
The "Janie"/Herington info to which you referred wasn't where I expected it to be on his site, so it took a little while to find it. Eventually did, though. It's at....
http://www.jonherington.com/profile.html
Here's the relevant excerpt from "...an extensive, grilling interview of Jon by Maureen Magee Shannon, NYC, September 2000" ....
______________________________________________________________________
MS: How did you land the gig with Steely Dan, and when did that come about?
JH: It was either 1998 or 1999, I'm not sure which, but it was toward the end of the making of "Two Against Nature." Donald and Walter had reached a point in the recording where they were ready to hire another guitar player to try some rhythm guitar stuff on the record. They had been using my good friend, Ted Baker, on keyboards for the tracking sessions and for some overdubs, I think, and they asked him who he'd recommend to play some guitar. He happened to have a copy of my record, "The Complete Rhyming Dictionary," and brought it in for Donald and Walter to hear. Soon after that I got a call to come in and play on "Janie Runaway," I think it was.
MS: What was your first session with Donald and Walter like?
JH: Well, they had sent me a chart and a demo of the song which was basically all synth tracks, no vocals or anything. I think there was this vibes sounding patch playing little fragments of what eventually became the melody. The demo had me scratching my head a little; it sounded a little stiff or something, a little strange. Then when I got to the studio and they put up the tracks of the players playing the tune instead of the synth sounds on the demo, it was like the heavens opening up. The groove was unbelievable, the bass part and the sound of it was incredible. This repetitive keyboard figure that had really dominated the demo was gone completely, replaced by this cool comping with lots of space. And then, when they finally brought up Donald's voice in the mix, it was just unreal, it all made this beautiful, perfect sense, and there it was: this new, vintage Steely Dan. It was pretty amazing, really. Anyway, we recorded lots of takes of rhythm guitar for several hours, filling up a mess of tracks. Funny thing is, none of that ever made it to the record! I did come back after that many times over the course of almost a year, though, and I ended up on, I think, four of the cuts on the record.
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 08:39:29 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
ON Herington's website there is an interesting story about the original tape of Janie Runaway B&F sent him, to get some guitar ideas, this story is kind of germaine to the chart discussion.
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 08:17:50 ET
Posted by: Howard,
Clas - what chords on Maxine are you stuck with?
Steely Dan charts - who wrote them? I know we've been through this before, but here's my understanding of the typical steps taken from initial composition to final recording:
D+W would compose a song. Next step - they record it as a demo, either with just piano and bass, or perhaps with drums and some Rhodes as well.
This demo would then be given to the appointed chart master (e.g. Omartian, Carlton). Their job would be to listen to the demo and come up with a chart that included chord names and keyboard voicings - nothing else. Obviously these charts would be enough to outline the basic structure of the song, so could be used by drummers, bass players etc - though the charts wouldn't have any specific parts for anything except keyboards (Rainey confirms this).
During recording sessions, musicians would work from the charts prepared by Carlton/Omartian/whoever. Clearly, musicians had freedom to develop their parts, with input from D+W. The charts were there to act as the reference point in terms of harmonies and overall song structure.
My understanding is that from Katy Lied until Gaucho, this was the way things were normally done. There might have been occasions when Donald wrote out some chord symbols - I seriously doubt that he ever wrote anything more than this, (i.e. charts with keyboard chord voicings). Not that he *couldn't* do this - he could, though not as well as people like Carlton. The point is, it was much easier for D+W to get their ideas down on tape, and then hand over to someone else to sort the charts out (which is somewhat tedious work).
Larry Carlton confirms in the "making of Aja" video that he started by listening to demo tapes, and wrote out all the charts from this (some of the charts are featured on the video). The album credits also confirm: "Rhythm Charts Prepared By Larry Carlton, Dean Parks, and Michael Omartian in Collaboration with the Composers".
For the last two albums, D+W have been using midi sequencers to sketch out their initial ideas, and are able to print out sophisticated charts straight from the computer. Whether these charts are used as they are in the recordign sessions, or whether someone else adapts or adds to them in any way, I'm not sure.
Bottom line is, for Katy Lied to Gaucho, the charts used at the recording sessions weren't written out by D+W. They were written out by one of the musicians, working from demo tapes. I've yet to read anything that disputes this.
Howard
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 07:29:36 ET
Posted by: Ann, Borneo
Sorry we're nearly a day ahead of you in North America, so a belated:
HAPPY BIRTHDAY
to Walter and Gretchen
(21 again????)
Ann
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 03:16:20 ET
Posted by: Clas,
Mu - my son went to Berkelee, being there a summer doesn't make you capable of writing out charts.
And I am talking notation, not chord-charts, you know the difference don't you?
I believe in Chuck Rainey.
Date: Mon, February 21, 2005, 01:31:57 ET
Posted by: Charles Barkley, Denver, CO
Hey, ya'all, today's my birthday too.
Date: Sun, February 20, 2005, 23:40:19 ET
Posted by: angel,
Better late then never....
Happy Birthday Walter.
Date: Sun, February 20, 2005, 23:29:17 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', Hong Kong
To my fellow fishes...Gretchen and WB
Birthday wishes from Asia !
Date: Sun, February 20, 2005, 20:33:06 ET
Posted by: Judge Judy, NH
Happy Birthday Walter Becker and may your "ideal gal" not get a penny!
Date: Sun, February 20, 2005, 19:44:24 ET
Posted by: Rajah, In Shanks-a-Lot
Walter and our dear Grette born on the same day...that should've told me somethin. Happy returns of the day is something I never understood, like is it acid reflux free, in which case, no, you deserve better than that.
Happiest of birthdays to you both and long may you waive, proud symbols of our enduring but dwindling freedoms and standard of living. America, where every punk kid can have DirecTV, Tivo, 5.1 DTS sensual surround sound on his flat-screen plasma and two phone numbers.
Here's looking at you.
Date: Sun, February 20, 2005, 19:29:39 ET
Posted by: hoops,
Happy Walter Becker's Birthday!
And and, of course, happy birthday to Gretchen!
Wow! A lotta "Neverminds" to ponder.
Thanks, Daddy G! I didn't know about the degree or Marian and wouldn't of had you not so kindly posted. THANKS! I can't believe she didn't already have an honorary degree from Berklee. Lord knows she earned it decades ago.
When the SD and MP CD comes out in March, maybe it will give us a hint as to what label Steely Dan, DF, and/or WB are with. Wonder if it will say "courtesy of Reprise." Heck, Concord would be a cool label for our guys to record for; and I think they have an arrangement with HEAR to distribute through Starbucks...hmmmm...
Tangentially, Concord recently bought out Fantasy Records.
Sounds like a great time was had in L.A.
Laters...
jim
Date: Sun, February 20, 2005, 19:14:08 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,
Thanks for the birthday wishes......
SOH, missed you on Friday. Hopefully we'll see you at Pretzel Logic.
G
Date: Sun, February 20, 2005, 16:23:14 ET
Posted by: Fagen Audio Crack Whore,
C: *chortle* Nevermind that Fagen had to read music in his school band - he played the baritone. My daughter plays baritone in her Intermediate School band now.
Nevermind the McPartland interview
Nevermind that Rikki said he could
Nevermind the summer at Berkelee
Nevermind that Katz has stated in articles that Fagen prepared some type of charts
Nevermind the copy of a real, albeit simple chart Fagen wrote circa Gaucho
Nevermind the clear indication by Carlton that Fagen wrote charts on Gaucho & Nightfly.
Nevermind citations of arrangments by Fagen on albums from the late 70s until today
Certainly, Carlton, Feldman, etc. transcribed and filled out many, past simple lead sheets and we all know Walter's charts or perhaps plans of military conquest are buried in his backyard
But actually - here's what REALLY happened:
Rainey wrote ALL the music
Feldman arranged ALL the instruments
Carlton wrote ALL the charts
Purdie played ALL the instruments
Porcaro got ALL the girls
Howard Cosell drove the tour bus.
Fagen & Becker were kept drugged in a corner of the Studio. Between Steamer Heaven take-out runs, Katz copied their incoherent ramblings on a lyric sheet. The back-up singers made them rhyme.
Two Against Nature and Everything Must Go were in fact recorded by interactive holograms of Walter & Donald recorded by Roger Nichols, Industrial Light & Magic, and WENDEL (Darth Insidious) in 1979. These tapes were mailed to the boyhood home of Michael Leonhart on the plant Krypton shortly before it exploded.
Date: Sun, February 20, 2005, 16:22:56 ET
Posted by: Fagen Ausio Crack Whore,
C: *chortle* Nevermind that Fagen had to read music in his school band - he played the baritone. My daughter plays baritone in her Intermediate School band now.
Nevermind the McPartland interview
Nevermind that Rikki said he could
Nevermind the summer at Berkelee
Nevermind that Katz has stated in articles that Fagen prepared some type of charts
Nevermind the copy of a real, albeit simple chart Fagen wrote circa Gaucho
Nevermind the clear indication by Carlton that Fagen wrote charts on Gaucho & Nightfly.
Nevermind citations of arrangments by Fagen on albums from the late 70s until today
Certainly, Carlton, Feldman, etc. transcribed and filled out many, past simple lead sheets and we all know Walter's charts or perhaps plans of military conquest are buried in his backyard
But actually - here's what REALLY happened:
Rainey wrote ALL the music
Feldman arranged ALL the instruments
Carlton wrote ALL the charts
Purdie played ALL the instruments
Porcaro got ALL the girls
Howard Cosell drove the tour bus.
Fagen & Becker were kept drugged in a corner of the Studio. Between Steamer Heaven take-out runs, Katz copied their incoherent ramblings on a lyric sheet. The back-up singers made them rhyme.
Two Against Nature and Everything Must Go were in fact recorded by interactive holograms of Walter & Donald recorded by Roger Nichols, Industrial Light & Magic, and WENDEL (Darth Insidious) in 1979. These tapes were mailed to the boyhood home of Michael Leonhart on the plant Krypton shortly before it exploded.
Date: Sun, February 20, 2005, 13:23:23 ET
Posted by: PQ, NYC
Chrysler...the best album of 2004, since we're talking Grammy baloney, and this album fits all categories of rock, jazz, whatever you want to call it, is Minh by the bassist Chris Minh Doky.
Date: Sun, February 20, 2005, 13:13:12 ET
Posted by: Daddy G., NJ
Apologies if this was posted before (and I suspect it must have been), but I just came across it this morning on the Berklee College of Music website. Nice profile of Marian McPartland due to her receiving an honorary doctorate from Berklee....
British Airwaves
Jazz radio royalty visits Berklee.
By Jason Roeder
Berklee.edu Correspondent
February 1, 2005
http://www.berklee.edu/news/2005/02/mcpartland.html
______________________________________________________________________
And yes indeed, Happy Birthday Walter & Gretchen!
Date: Sun, February 20, 2005, 12:59:27 ET
Posted by: SouthOfHollywood, Go Fish
And...
Happy Birthday GRETCHEN too!
SOH
Date: Sun, February 20, 2005, 12:56:08 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, One Pisces.........to another........
********Happy Birthday, Walter.........many, many more***********
G
Date: Sun, February 20, 2005, 11:12:11 ET
Posted by: Clas,
Mu - I haven't heard about Chuck Rainey in anything else than Steely Dan music, so I don't find it odd, no.
But that wasn't what it was about was it?
Larry Carlton, M Omartian and others wrote out the charts, neither Fagen nor Becker could.
I hate to say it... but man, I was right and you were wrong.
/C
PS/And me, on the Nightfly? I am still struggling with the chords to Maxine...
Date: Sun, February 20, 2005, 00:00:00 ET
Posted by: The Loyal Dandom, On All Continents
Happy Birthday, Walter Becker!
******
|||||
*********
*~~~~~~~*
* *
*****************
* *
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
* *
*****************
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[ Cake courtesy of Boston Rag & hoops ]
Date: Sat, February 19, 2005, 19:54:26 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, preparing for guests
W1P - we were towards the right side of the stage, way back by the booths at one of the long tables. Baaad drinks (my Cosmo tasted like Robitussin) but great music. Thanks again for a great show....I want to see the next gig in LA.
Stevee, when ARE we going to the Apple Pan, anyway?
G
Date: Sat, February 19, 2005, 17:31:38 ET
Posted by: Paladino's -- Rockin the Valley, Dude, The Valley, Dude
Hey, Raj, it's so funny that you would post that very apt description of Paladino's because I just looked on their calendar and lo and behold "Docter" Wu is scheduled to play there on March 26 -- the night after W1P plays there! We're bringing class to the Valley, DUDE.
Date: Sat, February 19, 2005, 16:59:50 ET
Posted by: W1P, Staying Home to Watch the Rain
Raj, the "bowler" and trenchcoat finds its inspiration in the Wish You Were Here album artwork -- the man without a face, wearing a bowler and holding a platinum vinyl record (I forgot my white gloves).
Date: Sat, February 19, 2005, 16:35:09 ET
Posted by: W1P, Hail Storm 405 North
Thanks Gretchen -- I'm bummed I didn't hook up with you guys last night -- where were you seated?
Which One's Pink set list 2/18/05 @ The Coach House
Pigs (Three Different Ones)
Money
Mother
Us & Them
On The Turning Away (awash in reverb!)
Astronomy Domine
Have a Cigar
Comfortably Numb
Time
Breathe Reprise
The Great Gig in the Sky (how'd you like this one?)
In The Flesh (Part 2)
Run Like Hell
Brain Damage
Eclipse
Date: Sat, February 19, 2005, 16:24:07 ET
Posted by: Rajah, squeegying the basement floor
W1P was awesome, very restrained and in control, tackling the big heavy with ease. Nice survey of their work, a little bit from just about everything including a Roger Waters solo piece that elludes me now. San Juan Capistrano is not much to look at save for the Mission, a winery maybe, and the Coach House, packed to 478 last night in a driving rain for the Pink opening for Led Zapagain but the Pink for my buck was the One, they interpreted the music faithfully without mimickry, something that was unfortunately a tad too much in evidence IMHO with Led Zepagain whom I realize is one of the most accomplished and commercially viable tribute ensembles ever, they've been doing it 12 years. But my sweet tooth informs that if W1P was pistacchio ice cream, LZA was tofu sorbet. That these bands can fill an esteemed old roadhouse like Capistrano's Coach House, the 8X10s on the walls are a hoot as well as remarkable, is really due to the mass appeal, I'm talkin global, that Pink and Zep discography had and enjoy to this day. I don't know if a Steely Dan group could play these bigger clubs due to that.
Our Man Pink introduced W1P in a Mad-Hatter-in-a-Raincoat personna, very appropos, a play on the whacked-out Englishmen of the Floyd. Or maybe an anglicized Clouseau. Pink Panther, what, he cool. Supple and sustained voices on the singers keening away at
the trippy lyrics. Lady named Natalie wailed out the that ending to DSOTM, wow, huge pipes on her, she didn't need the mic in that room I don't believe. Guitarists supported and complemented each other well, strong and smooth battery which never drew attention to itself, keyboards cradled it like a hammock, all the sax you'd want on those few numbers. The younger guys, Paul Samarin and John Stack on bass and lead both sing beautifully with that elasticity necessary for Pink Floyd. Well done W1P and thank you.
My date knew all the songs and from whence they came. It's so nice to have encyclopaedic reference handy, although it does get pricey, I mean, you get what you pay for.
Date: Sat, February 19, 2005, 15:04:47 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, considering the pros and cons of hitchiking....
Thanks to W1P and the band for a spectacular show at the Coach House in Capistrano last night! It was mesmerizing, and great to relive that Pink Floyd experience. Let me tell you, even the most casual PF fan should check them out.....you will be spellbound!
One of my favorite tracks opened the set...."Pigs," (thanks for the sound effects, Dan). The rest of the set just got even better. "Run Like Hell" was better than Floyd's version! They are true musicians, not trying to look like Barrett, Waters, Gilmour, etc but playing their own superb versions of very sophisticated 70's rock, my favorite era. Thanks again, Dan(if you get a chance, can you post the setlist?).
AJA - email me, we will make plans to meet up for Pretzel Logic, Stevee's most excellent band. Seeing PL live is very addictive,they are true professionals playing flawless and sophisticated music- you won't want to miss a gig after seeing them once. Steve is an amazing keyboardist/bandleader and the most enthusiastic and loyal SD fan (and one of the nicest guys) I've met. He also has a wealth of knowledge about the band. Definitely contact me, we'
