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While there is no set topic, discussion should be vaguely Steely Dan tangential.

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December 2003 BlueBook Entries


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 23:27:12 ET
Posted by: Rajah , Sunset to the sea

Your Rajah is off to a New Years Beach Party, these Angelinos and their strange rituals.

Thanks to you true Blue, you know who you are.

Happy New Year!


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 22:55:40 ET
Posted by: joemcd, canada

please, can someone settle this argument?...my friend here says that Steeely Dan's original name was "the worst band ever". I think he's full of sh**t. can someone please clarify!!!


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 21:59:34 ET
Posted by: Honeybun, at home

Happy New Year everyone!

Honeybun


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 21:47:30 ET
Posted by: ed_beatty,

Wreck-LESS Crew and all my friends here
What a year it has been !
You ALL made this year of EMG even more a delight
Be well-Be Safe.

Ed



Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 20:43:47 ET
Posted by: WuDuF, revelling in Bethel

Happy New Year to all! I am staying home tonite, and am looking forward to the greenroom get-together at midnite. Alas, my poor hubby is playing in NYC tonite, right in the thick of things. It's a private party I could not crash, so I will be cyber-celebrating with my web friends. Good idea Gretchen! See you all later! Come prepared with your New Year's Resolutions. If you don't have any, I'm sure we all could help you out!


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 18:45:45 ET
Posted by: hoops,

The latest edition of the Dandom Digest has just been mailed. Please email me if you are already a subscriber and do not receive it within the next 12-18 hours of this posting. Some subscribers have had delivery blocked due to their firewalls or SPAM blockers.

Subjects in the Dandom Digest for December 20-31 2003 include:

- The Manatee Bar
- Steely Dan Piano
- Looking for "Singer Magazine" with Becker/Fagen
- Re: One more question on A.W.
- Re: Those 1968-71 Demos
- Re: 5.1 gaucho vs DVD-A of Gaucho, Apogee CD
- Massachusetts' Own Dan Cover Band
- emg in perspective
- Re: 'SLANG ME' DEPT: "A Little Face Time"
- Oh My Gadd

If you wish to subscribe and do not yet, please see http://www.dandom.com/dandomdigest or just email me.

Thank you.

jim


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 18:40:30 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Hey DJ - Sick Fruity Bitches is a copyrighted name, watch it there bucko! LOL just kidding and I will see you in Chicago in April. I like to hang out at Rosa's.

Re: male female duets - I find it surprising that not many Dan Fans I have spoken to - approximately 2000 in person - ever mention The Beautiful South, whether in terms of male/female vocals, cleverness of lyric, pop song craftmanship, etc. etc. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I think the album Quench by Beautiful South is right up there with any pop album I've ever heard.


IMHO Ella is not up there with Sarah Vaughn or Betty Carter. She ceertainly can't pull the scat improvisations out of thin air like those ladies. IMHO>


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 17:43:09 ET
Posted by: hoops, See ya next yeahhrrrr.

Ella starting point?

There's so many sides to her that it would be hard to do her justice or expect everyone to agree. But I think "The Best of the Songbooks" from about ten years ago is a great compilation to start with. All the songs are likely pretty familiar to you so you can focus on understanding how Ella makes them special. Often, you can also find "The Best of the Songbooks" bundled in a slip case with two followup compilations, "The Best of the Songbooks: Ballads" and "The Best of the Songbooks: Love Songs." The three in a pack together are not much more expensive than the single CD. Speaking of bundles, her box set is beautiful, one of the best boxes I have ever seen or touched.

Check out her version of "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered." The part where she sings, "worship the trousers that cling to him" really made me stand up and take note the first few times I heard it.

Speaking of standing up, have you noticed that back in '97, Eydie and Steve covered "Soul Ram" on my imaginary SD-inspired talk show? Check out: http://www.dandom.com/essayssatire/sleg/soulram.html

See ya next year...

jim


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 17:12:00 ET
Posted by: hoops, happy new year

The "St Louis Post-Dispatch" had a followup on "Rolling Stones" 500 albums feature where they had readers write in with their tops. One list had "Aja" at the top so that soothese the wounds a tad, I guess.

As aside, another put, of all choices, Van Morrison's "Inarticulate Speech of the Heart," a VM album Ithat think is fantastic and one of his more unusual but tends to be towards the bottom of many VM fan surveys. (If you have never heard it, imagine a Van Morrison album in the middle ground between "Chant" and pre-Enya New Age.)

The link is at http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/entertainment/stories.nsf/Entertainment/Music/34AF74DB3A04F38B86256E0C003DF921?OpenDocument&Headline=Thus+spake+music+fans

I haven't seen the DVD-A of "Gaucho" anywhere but the latest issue of ICE Magazine hasn't retracted the release date which supposed to have been a couple of weeks ago. Clearly, it's on a holding pattern and clearly ICE is good but not perfect. Looking forward to comparing the SACD to the DVD-A.

The same issue also reminds us that Warne Marsh & Pete Christlieb's Apogee—produced by Becker/Fagen in the late 70s—is still due February 3 with additional liner notes and three bonus tracks.

Well, Happy New Year everyone!

jim


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 16:56:50 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

Wasn't "Blame It on the Bossanova" done by Edie? Great sexy voice, her, Keely Smith and Julie London, these women have never, IMHO, been given their due. We do tend to hear only their schlockiest numbers.

Lady Day, I think, had a tremendous influence on singing, she was an innovator but I have to say, because of the crappy quality of the recordings, she's hard to listen to.

Ella has such a huge body of work, there's something for everyone. My faves are her version of Jobim's "Desafinado" and I seem to recall Don or Walt making a joke about how they demand that all the women auditioning for SD be required to give their rendering of that classic tune. She and Frank also do a duet medley on his latest DVD of duets. Not the awful pre-fab Duets records of the early 90s but 1950s TV show duets. As you probably know, Frank was on TV every week in the 50s on his or somebody's show singing live with a live band. Ella & Frank are just great on it, doing all the flirting and teasing FS was famous for. The male/female duet has sort of faded away, except for the hip-hopsters these days, too bad. Don and Carolyn could do simply amazing things in this arena, I mean, Pixeleen, not technically a duet, was so sultry in the passages where she and Don do the call-and-response thing. I'd give my right arm to hear them do, "Baby, It's Cold Outside." Only I'd do it with Carolyn as the aggressor, trying to convince a prohibitively nerdy Don to stay the night. The Rajah is a sucker for romance.


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 15:51:24 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Thoughts on (older) vocalists:

Some of the Ella stuff that gets airplay is not her best, but overall she was one of the greats. Later the scat got to be overdone. Recently heard a cut of her doing "Blues in the Night" that was phenomenal -- made it special *without* screwing up the great melody and lyrics, which is what "artists" so often do to the standards. Work *with* the material, people ...

Too bad that "Wonderful World" and "Hello Dolly" are the only Satchmo vocals we tend to hear. He was more than just a gravely voice. Saw a documentary on him that gave a much better perspective of his talent and HUGE influence.

Lady Day was different -- not my favorite, but I think in her time she was just totally groundbreaking as a vocalist. And she wrote her own numbers, which I think very few singers did back then -- God Bless the Child probably the most famous.

Now for something completely different: A singer I think is totally under-rated is (no kidding) Edie Gorme. Have an album she did of torch songs ("Don't Go to Strangers") that would blast you right over 2004 into 2005. What pipes!!

The tough thing is that, for a lot of great (older) vocalists, it's hard to find the real good stuff among all the recordings they made. A lot of what we get exposed to today is not from their prime. When Celia Cruz died I heard about 20 seconds (on a news report) of some work she did as a young immigrant and got a *much* better sense of her innate talent. Not that we wasn't great until (close to) the end -- but I'd never gotten to hear her material from her prime.

I'm hoping as the on-line services start to get a more diverse archive available it will be easier to explore and learn about so many of these great artists. And that they will avoid carrying the appallingly awful 1975 re-make of some great old number!



Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 15:23:49 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Jaydee-

Actually, Macy Gray is "Disco Duck" (at least on her big hit).


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 15:08:00 ET
Posted by: DJ, Chicago

All kissing goodbye to a great year for Steely Dan and to meeting some new steely folks if only in chat.

Toast up those bubbles tonight a little Brut and Charisma if you will.

See ya Sick Fruitties in the 04

DJ


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 14:28:11 ET
Posted by: Bill, Beating a dead horse

Still can't find Murphy's lyrics to Naima, but did stumble across the factoid that Naima was John Coltrane's first wife. Syeeda was his daughter, namesake of Syeeda's Song Flute (the chords of which way back I suggested bore some superficial resemblence to the title track of EMG).


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 14:19:29 ET
Posted by: Bill, Pittsburgh

Gretchen, the singer you heard was Mark Murphy. He has a ton of albums out. His web site is http://www.markmurphy.com/

Just did some Googling and found this import: http://www.merlin.com.pl/sklep/sklep/strona.glowna?str=fis274683&skad=uzkmucpmny
Mark Murphy Sings "Naima", Canteloupe Island", "Body & Soul" and Other Great Songs

It's also apparently on this one: http://www.52ndstreet.com/reviews/vocals/murphy_standards.html

The tune has been sung by others including Karrin Allyson - Ballads: Remembering John Coltrane.

Ain't Google wonderful?


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 12:40:24 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" Holidays make me mushy. "

I would like to nuzzle you .

May you have a Rockin' Danfest Tonight my Brother .

Joesy !



Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 12:35:50 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

Only for you, dear ones. I hate it when I get serious. My Turban really fell off there. Holidays make me mushy.


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 12:22:12 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

Rajah (magazine ? Surely you do it just for us !?)

Ella - OK convince me. All I can think of is 'a tisket a tasket' and that annoying scat stuff. What should I listen to? Gimme a 'Maxine'!


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 11:47:06 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

I always loved Satchmo, he had such a kind face and was a big teddy bear. He made you feel everything was gonna be OK. But at the same time I kind of felt sorry for him, as I often do for truly good souls. His voice had an innocence under that deep drawl, and being ultra sensitive to music, he always brought me to tears. Especially now, if you listen to "Wonderful World," how can you not want to sob given the state of the world today? Little did Satch know what the next century would bring.
Now, I love Ella. She's such a strong spirit, an independant, upbeat woman, can sing the blues with a smile on her face and make any occasion festive. We need some singers like that now.


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 11:41:45 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" But he touches something in us, a place usually hidden under layers of human defenses. If you could put a sound to the beautiful imperfection of the human condition, the mortality of our bodies, our many frailties, they are somehow all reflected in the startling imperfection of that voice. And in the face of these immutable dictates, Satch's voice also conveys our great courage, our capacity for goodness and joy. "

^
|
|
|
|

Ladies and Gentlemen ................

Do you see this ?!?!?! DO YOU ALL SEE IT ?!?!?!?!?!

Now THAT'S posting my Steelian Kin !

Simply Beautiful .


Bless You my Rajah -- You are much loved by the Joey

P.S. Do you write for a Magazine ?




Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 11:27:44 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

Gretchen - sweetheart, what a sensitive soul you are, I love your comment as to Satchmo, he does evoke that feeling for many people; and just listen to that voice, I mean, WHAT is that sound, is it singing? Probably not. Every phrase seems like it's a struggle for Satch to get through. But he touches something in us, a place usually hidden under layers of human defenses. If you could put a sound to the beautiful imperfection of the human condition, the mortality of our bodies, our many frailties, they are somehow all reflected in the startling imperfection of that voice. And in the face of these immutable dictates, Satch's voice also conveys our great courage, our capacity for goodness and joy. An army of singers with perfect pitch, tone and dynamic range won't necessarily ever provide that.

Now we have to talk about Ella.


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 10:46:45 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, CT

Bill, I heard "Naima" on 88.3, a Long Island station which plays jazz mostly all day, every day. I caught it toward the end but I was amazed at it's beauty. I don't recall all the lyrics, and have been searching for the cd, but can't locate anything by Michael Murphy (not to be confused with - God forbid - Michael Martin Murphey of "Wildfire" fame-yikes!) Even checked ejazzlines.com. If I can track it down, I'll let you know. John Hick's "Naima's Love Song" is also very beautiful.


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 10:03:41 ET
Posted by: Bill, again

And how could I overlook Ray Charles, particularly since Donald has been channeling him lately. Of course he fits into R&B, soul, blues, jazz and even country!


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 10:00:23 ET
Posted by: Bill, Pittsburgh

I am also not terribly fond of many jazz singers as much as I love jazz in general. I prefer those that approach jazz from an R&B perspective like Mose Allison or (tangentially Dan) Jay Leonhart or the sultry blues-oriented approach of some female singers such as Cassandra Wilson or newcomer Norah Jones, who probably doesn't really count as a jazz singer. Van Morrison also considers himself a jazz vocalist and I love his work but think it's more R&B.

The only jazz station here in Pittsburgh features a DJ every evening who insists on splitting his playlist roughly equally between vocals and instrumentals, and most of the time the vocals turn me off - too "lounge-singer" like for me. Also, many attempts at setting lyrics to classic jazz tunes are rather clumsy, in my opinion, especially compared to the work of Don & Walt in their jazz-influenced pop context.

That said, Coltrane's "Naima" is one of the most haunting melodies ever composed and I'd be interested in hearing it sung well. I believe the Naima of the title was Coltrane's daughter. What are the lyrics?

Big "me too" on Bonnie Raitt, although in concert she has tends to over-utilize the technique of speaking a line or two for emphasis.


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 09:39:10 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, working with the boys, upstairs

Jaydee, I have to commend you on your admission of not liking the "sound" of some of the greats. I, too am disturbed by some artists who had pioneered music. Billie Holliday has always given me an eerie feeling, particularly "Gloomy Sunday." Although she's one of the most highly respected and acclaimed artists of the 20th century, I can't listen to her. Louis Armstrong makes me cry. And try as I might, I just cannot get into Leonard Cohen. Walter Becker is an acquired taste, but I happen to like the gritty, bluesy soulfulness of his renditions, and 11 TOW is always on my cd changer.
Don's voice is so familiar to me, hardly a day has gone by in 30 years when I haven't listened to Steely Dan. I like the fact he can be moody, melancholy, or upbeat, even comical. As far as pure jazz is concerned, I prefer instrumentals to jazz vocals. Has anyone heard Michael Murphy's version of "Naima?" It was not originally intended for lyrical interpretation, but his version is magical.


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 03:11:57 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

The reaction to a singer's vocal 'sound' is, I think, an interesting and very subjective area. Personally, I simply 'don't like' the sound of, among others, such legends as Ella Fitzgerald, Nat King Cole, Nina Simone, Cleo Laine and most opera singers (that dreadful heavy vibrato stuff). And Macy Gray IS Marge Simpson.

But I love Donald's voice, confirmed by the recent acquisition of (and I think hoop's recent spot-on post said it was ok to mention this stuff) a recording of the 2000 Manassas gig. This is real live singing with no tweaking, midway through a long tour, and he really does cut the mustard. Yes, he ducks a few notes but always with style !

Walter's vocals are undoubtedly an 'acquired' taste, which I'm still working to acquire. However, his voice is perfect for band intros ! ('Did I forget to mention that Ted Baker won the Bunsen prize').

And, for me, the most perfect, pure and wonderful vocal sound ever is Bonnie Raitt.


Date: Wed, December 31, 2003, 00:45:08 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, I Got The News!!!

DANFAN NEW YEAR'S EVE PARTY IN THE GREEN ROOM 12/31 12 MIDNIGHT EST

BYOB
It promises to be quite an interesting gathering.
If you're home at midnight, stop in, we'll ring it in together.
Of course, you should be popping the bubbly as you type. I will.
Hope you can attend!

Your hostess,
G


Date: Tues, December 30, 2003, 23:04:07 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Rajah- Really cool anecdote from Marotta! Augmented by the fact that those opening lines from DTMA get my vote as the among pithiest of SD lyrics (most said in fewest words). Close: first couple lines of Babylon Sisters; ditto New Frontier.

DF is definitely a master of phrasing and tone (tho will confess the extra-whiney quality on a few cuts -- like Nightfly -- is annoying IMO).

What strikes me is that, added together, the sum of their great vocal harmony moments put SD equal to or better than many more-noted "vocal" groups. In the earlier years, beyond Rikki and Reelin, you have so many -- Chain Lightning, Rose Darling, Black Friday, With a Gun (!). (lots more of course.)
Michael McD had a tough time with those close intervals on Peg, but our Donald is doing it ALL THE TIME. (Think of those lines "She's got the right dynamic for the New Frontier..." or "Luuuunch wiiith Giiiina") Just another element of genius!

So here's to a very tight and harmonious New Year to all the great posters and fans on the Blue Book!!


Date: Tues, December 30, 2003, 18:39:49 ET
Posted by: Rajah, not taking the bait

Reelin and Rikki as well are simply great performances by Donald. Even though these two songs have been played on the radio on a daily basis since their release, pounded and pounded into our consciousness for thirty years, never leaving the landscape, they've never become cloying. They're holding up like the freakin Pyramids. The Sphinx hums them at parties.


Date: Tues, December 30, 2003, 16:11:43 ET
Posted by: Bill, Pittsburgh

In phrasing, Donald has been a master from note one on CBAT. I remember the odd, rushed cadence of the verses of Reelin' being one of its most distincitive features on the radio back then, the legendary guitar work being the other. Very Dylanesque, in terms of singing ahead of the beat. Fire in the Hole is another fine vocal performance. The soaring, double-tracked vocal on Do It Again sounds almost like a horn in the mix. (Note that he doesn't sing it in Gm any more - that was at the top of his range in those days and the slight straining for the high notes gave it a special urgency). I agree that Donald's voice was not standard radio fare in the beginning - very New York and a bit nasal upon first hearing. It matured into the fine vocal instrument we know over time, but like Dylan and other expressive, idiosyncratic singers, I'd much rather hear him than more technically "perfect" vocalists (i.e. the American Idol gang: ugh).

While we're at it, have I mentioned lately how much I like Walter's voice? :-) Flame suit on.


Date: Tues, December 30, 2003, 16:06:33 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" Anyone up for a chat this evening? I'll be around the Green Room by 10 pm EST, if anyone feels like visiting.
G "

Sorry G , but I am very tired today . My chances of showing up this evening include the words " Snowball " and " Hell " . WAIT !!!!! I know , some Steely Dan music might just pick me up and get me through the day ...................I feel better already .

Count Me IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jacky !


Date: Tues, December 30, 2003, 15:12:23 ET
Posted by: Rajah,

The Beach Boy comparison is quite provoking when you think about Donald's evolution as the voice of Steely Dan coupled with their moving out here to California. We've heard about Donald's, what, reluctance to take up the mike early on? I'll buy that to a certain extent but I'm thinking any recording industry person listening to Donald sing in 1970-71 kinda tilted his head and thought, "strange pipes" cause Donald's voice is truly unique. Unique is a scary concept in the music business, maybe most businesses, it's risky. I also hear from the very get-go on Do It Again that DF had a real idea of how to interpret a song. One of the drummers, Marotta, upon first hearing Donald sing, "agents of the law, luckless pedestrian, I know you're out there..." said, "I'm listening in my phones to this guy who can really sing, and the tune sounds amazing and the band is amazing, it was just...different. You have to kiss a lot of frogs when you're a studio player. After that I had to stop and collect myself." By that time, DF was a true stylist, not just a singer, his voice became an icon, so recognizable, personal yet somehow all at once anonymous, like an everyman thing. Isn't this where we get the "Joe Schmuck" persona from Don on a lot of SD characters? But some stepping stones to the greatness he would eventually achieve as a singer on Aja, for me, were Razor Boy, Boston Rag, King of the World, Any Major Dude, Pretzel Logic. From the Katy Lied album onward, every single vocal performance has been its own little masterpiece.


Date: Tues, December 30, 2003, 14:27:21 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Anyone up for a chat this evening? I'll be around the Green Room by 10 pm EST, if anyone feels like visiting.
G


Date: Tues, December 30, 2003, 13:02:42 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, Back on topic

Bill - I agree with you. I have always thought that some of those guitar solos from the first 4 albums could have been played by horns. Also, regarding close vocal harmonies, Peg, with the background vocal parts sung my Michael McDonald is case in point.
(No right wing hooey please ...)


SteveeDan


Date: Tues, December 30, 2003, 12:47:19 ET
Posted by: Bill, Pittsburgh

Re: vocal influences - Steely Dan passed through Pittsburgh opening for the Beach Boys in 1974. I didn't go, for at that time I had little use for the BB's and figured they'd be headlining next time (they were, 19 years later.)

I suspect Donald has listened to a good bit of jazz harmony singing in the style of Lambert Henricks & Ross and others. Maxine is a good example of that influence.

I also recall that they were quoted in an interview somewhere this past year that they arrange vocal harmonies the same as other arrangers would write for horns - I think it may have been the World Cafe interview. They do write "close" harmonies, i.e. where one singer is singing a step or even half-step from the next singer.


Date: Tues, December 30, 2003, 11:33:07 ET
Posted by: rcray, nyc

Happy new year to all.

A Live DVD and/or CD has to be on the way. If not, I will continue to blast Plush Jazz-Rock for years to come.



Date: Tues, December 30, 2003, 10:48:06 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" Here's to a happy, healthy, prosperous, and entertaining New Year to all! (and lets hope our boys give us some bait early on). "

Amen!!!!! , oh " Snarky " one ...........................


Here's wishing Hoopsie , Rajah , Peter Q , Gretchen , K.C. and everyone else on this most Prodigious of forums a very very prosperous 2004 . Hell , if it is HALF as entertaining as this past year we are all in for a treat .

I am STILL holding out hope that Steely Dan will tour the states again this summer ( As the 2003 Gigs were so awesome ) . But if not , since we all like other artists / bands / etc ..... , I am quite sure great performances and concerts lie ahead for all of us this year ( U2 , THE WHO come to mind ) .

Remember , Don and Walt are not loved by all the masses on this orb and we like it like that . Ours is a secret society . Hug Me .

Nuzzly Yours ,

Joeykins !





Date: Tues, December 30, 2003, 10:06:14 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, mixing limes and coconuts

"The bells ring out across the snow, the old year's going, let him go." Alfred, Lord Tennyson.

Here's to a happy, healthy, prosperous, and entertaining New Year to all! (and lets hope our boys give us some bait early on).

Love,
G


Date: Tues, December 30, 2003, 05:47:15 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, Who's got the floor now?

You know, it's kind of funny ... in real life, if you don't like what's going on at a party, let's say, then, you leave. Whether you leave quietly or make a scene that's your choice, but the fact remains that you still leave.

Why is it then, that here on the Blue Book, or the chatroom, if a person doesn't like what's going on, they stay? Wouldn't that be just another form of insanity? And remember, ... it takes one to know one ... I am so qualified ... and so am I.

So, if you don't like what Hoops is doing, make your statement, if you feel so utterly compelled to do so, and be on your way. If you really wanted to offer some constructive criticism, you certainly wouldn't be expressing your views the way you do. Don't be a coward. No one respects a coward. If you've really got something to say ... then say it. Otherwise, those annoying posts are merely a small nuisance. Nothing good comes of them ... and there is no payoff to the writer either. It's just the display of another form of insanity.

So, in retrospect, I look back on the year 2003 with a great deal of gratitude. A new CD, a great tour, and the gigs my band, Pretzel Logic got to play ... and all those rehearsals playing Steely Dan music with 10 other great musicians. Priceless.

I send good will to all, and Prosperous wishes for a great 2004.

Sincerely,


SteveeDan


Date: Tues, December 30, 2003, 05:39:09 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, Late night at the office

Pivotal Pete - I believe I have heard or read an interview or two in which Fagen and Becker talk about their formative years, growing up listening to the late night radio shows of the late '50's and early '60's. They talked about the multiple harmony vocal groups of the day like The Letterman, and other "clean" groups like that which were in abundance and also popular at the time. The vocal group music was just one of many influences upon Fagen and Becker. This might be the information (or a small piece of it) that you were asking about.

Mr. Hoops - I don't think you were refering to me in your post, but, I would just like to say that I agree with you. With regard to bootlegs, of course they are illegal and strongly frowned upon by the recording industry. My limited interest in them are only to be able to learn more about the way Steely Dan (in it's many live incarnations) interprets and reinterprets the music we all love. For me, bootlegs are not an item to be bought and sold. There should never be any financial remuneration involved. The royalties issue is a just and legitimate one. If money was not involved, possibly the stigma of collecting bootlegs would be lessened somewhat.

But, hey, that's just my opinion ... what the hey?


SteveeDan


Date: Mon, December 29, 2003, 22:50:41 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Vocal influences?

Background: Watched a rebroadcast of the 2002 "Queen's Concert" the other day -- people like Phil Collins, Annie Lennox and others performing at Buckingham Palace for the Royals and 15,000 friends. After Dame Edna, the best part of the show was -- to my surprise -- Brian Wilson. He still *looks* whacked out, but the performance (he teamed with Clapton, the Corrs and others) was really nice.

Question: Listening to Wilson and those wonderful vocal harmonies it struck me that I've never seen any comments here about what inspired the awesome vocal work that is such a key to SD (and DF) arrangements. They clearly love and strive for outstanding vocal work -- Anyone know who they were influenced by?

(I could certainly guess Beatles, Everly Bros [aka "those Rock n Roll Choir Boys" - joni m], Beach Boys -- not sure Ellington or Parker would fit)

Anyway, hoping someone has some insights!!


Date: Mon, December 29, 2003, 22:37:01 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Bill-

Maybe 'cause I was not a rebellious kid I tend to see the "teen rebellion" thing as a bit over-rated. Now, it's especially easy to view it as less-than-wonderful when it's *your* kids as the potential rebels! But it's good to know not liking rap is a sign that all's right with the world...

(Never much cared for punk, but then my daughter went koo-koo over Good Charlotte and ended up taking her to a 4-band punk concert. Spent most of the time in the "pit." The pushing and shoving was actually quite similar to "standing in line" in France ...)




Date: Mon, December 29, 2003, 18:54:18 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

Bill - So THAT'S where I went wrong. I didn't give them enough to rebel against! Another abject failure of our generation. But seriously now, they were crazy and turbulant times but the Sixties kicked this whole world in the asz. We can take some small comfort in that, I suppose.


Date: Mon, December 29, 2003, 15:31:12 ET
Posted by: Bill, again

Saw this timely commentary on Cecil Adams' Straight Dope page in a discussion of "leetspeak", the pseudo-code used in IM's by them youngsters:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030110.html

"Let's put this in perspective, Montfort. Your columnist grew up in the 60s, which as everyone knows was the coolest era in the history of existence. The collective output of the leading lights of that time--your Stones, your Zep, etc--obliterated everything that had gone before. Sure, your Andy Williams types were still putting out records, and I guess somebody must have bought them (presumably the same people who are presently packing the theaters in Branson, Missouri). But everybody with a clue knew: Those guys were old. They were out of it. They were lame.

That said, I fully expected the next generation to come along with some even more radical pop-cultural contribution that would leave us 60s burnouts in the dust. Didn't happen, at least not right away. During the early 80s I was shocked to overhear a couple 17-year-olds talking about going to a Grateful Dead concert. I wanted to say: You twerps, your parents went to Grateful Dead concerts. You're supposed to think the Grateful Dead suck. There's something terribly wrong with a world in which kids think their elders' culture is hip.

Eventually, thank God, there was rap. I was relieved to find that I hated rap. There were times when it was all I could do to keep from growling how can you kids listen to that noise? I tell you, it did my heart good."


Date: Mon, December 29, 2003, 14:07:20 ET
Posted by: Bill, Pittsburgh

The curfew mentality is not confined to the West Coast. Here in Pittsburgh a club that used to host touring acts as well as function as a dance club did that kind of thing regularly. I remember a sold-out show with The Band the week after they were inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. The Band played for less than an hour and seemed to wrap up their set at an odd, anticlimactic point after a rather mellow song. Levon Helm just said "Goodnight" and they stopped playing. There was a near riot as the live-music (and hard-drinking, I might add) audience was rudely evicted to make room for the regular Friday night dance crowd lined up outside.

It would certainly have been interesting to hear Skunk and Robert Randolph. Wonder if they did any steel guitar jamming together? I don't pretend to be an authority but these two guys have done a lot to bring the pedal steel beyond its usual country (and western swing) setting. There are other influential steel players in the rock world(David Lindley, for instance) but not a lot who play the complex and challenging pedal steel axe. A friend of mine says its like flying a helicopter.

Glad to hear Skunk can still set aside the military stuff for a while to be revealed as a wild boy.


Date: Mon, December 29, 2003, 14:01:32 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

From time to time people send me commentary or complaints about something someone else said that I said in email or here or in one of the chat rooms, etc. Unless you hear directly from me, please don't take second hand info as truth.

The reason I am saying this is that this morning someone emailed me to say so and so was talking about bootleg Steely Dan recordings in chat and asked if I will be reporting them to "authorities," and what a jerk I am for doing so since supposedly this is my policy to do so.

For re-clarification, I'm going to reiterate what I said the first day or two of the bluebook back in June 2001.

1) Simply, it's silly to say we Steely Dan fans aren't going to talk or chat or post about the existence of bootleg recordings. They exist, they are out there, how you can you pretend they are not? Here's a twist to consider: as some of you know, I had a very minor role consulting on some CD reissues by some artists (not those of Steely Dan). Those at the record companies and even the artists themselves, were disappointed that I *wasn't* so familiar with the artists' boots. They then sought someone else's advice on the artists' bootlegs!

2) BUT, when you start talking about how to obtain boots in any internet forum, it's not really so offensive to me as it is that you are being very stupid on your own behalf. You are basically documenting for whomever might see it--specifically incognito law enforcement people who might be around--that you deal in them. (BTW: I have no idea if any law enmforcement people hang out here, but look at the granny getting slapped with a MP3 trading suit, eh?) In a June 2001 posty, I compared the situation to those who enjoy recreational chemicals at a Dead show. It's one thing to be dropping doses, but do you have to be so stupid like those who scream "Doses!" right in front of security at Grateful Dead shows?

3) When someone posts HOW to obtain a bootleg via BlueBook, I can also be held responsible since it is well within my technical abilities to edit and remove such info, as I interpret the law. I know Andy Metzger does his thing, but this is how I feel most comfortable as the host here. I also don't like to assist in what I think Becker and Fagen aren't too fond of, especially when I empathize with them. Several years ago in a different forum, I was indeed called on it by authorities; and in fact, I used to also sit on my employers' copyright committee.

4) What do I think Becker and Fagen think of bootlegs of themselves and other artists? As one person questioned me, don't I think they have that one special Charlie Parker boot or something? I have no idea but it's pretty clear they don't offer boots of their own on their site and there have been a few writings (like the comments on the pre CBAT demos and via the "furry years" essay) suggesting they don't seem especially thrilled with them. On the other hand, remember that discography SD.com used to link to circa 1996 where the link said, "includes a few naughty ones."

SUMMARY: Sure it's OK to talk about unreleased recordings--they exist, you know. But it's plain dumb for your own sake to tell how to get them; I can't leave posts up that tell how, and I am pretty sure Becker and Fagen aren't especially nuts about all the boots. I have no way of knowing who trades boots in chat and how to stop them. If you have questions, ask me. You don't have to ask others what they think I mean. I'll be happy to tell you direct.

=========

Over the holidays, someone wrote asking why I have been pretty scarce in Dandom. First of all, let's *all* take a break--I mean we have other interests, right? It's the holidays and Steely Dan Land is the most quiet it's been in about a dozen years? How about other facets of life? To be honest, I'm kinda enjoying time alone with some books and of course, my Steely Dan CDs. I've been re-reading the Sweet bio front to cover for the first time in several years and then it's on to the Jaco bio. It may not seem like it from the outside, but behind the scenes--between technical issues and user requests, complaints and comments, there's a lot of work--and I am enjoying a break from it.

And do know I look at the BlueBook a few times pretty much every day even if I don't post. I actually think the place is better when I don't post and let you guys do so. But to be honest, I don't think I have been in greenroom chat maybe twice since Thanksgiving. If something there is going on I should know about, please let me know as I sure haven't been there to see it. On the plus side--and correct me if I am wrong--I have been getting the impression things have been going pretty well there lately. IMHO, the best thing you can do in chat is don't play name games--stick to the same chat name and password protect the one name you choose.

If you have any concerns, complaints, beefs, think I said something or think I am not saying something, please confront me via Email rather then assume what someone is second hand saying I said. SD.com had this bit about the fable about the guy describing an elephant based simply on feeling it's tail. Same here, consider the possibility of another possibility--I'm pretty much an open book. Heck, many of you can even call me if you want.

In closing, thanks for the privlege of your being part of this little lemonade stand inspired by Steely Dan.

jim


Date: Mon, December 29, 2003, 10:49:54 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

SD did play Shelby Farms in the second leg of the tour this year.

Bill - your story doesn't surprise me. I don't know what it is about the LA metro area, but there's always somebody shutting somebody down at 11:10 PM or whatever. Seems to be a long history of this stuff, maybe going back to late 40s. Cops, city ordinances and unions I suspect conspire to create this atmosphere. Curfew mentality. Most of the time it doesn't matter anyway because LA people are famous for coming late and leaving early. My personal nightmare occurred at the SD show in Costa Mesa on July 23rd.


Date: Mon, December 29, 2003, 09:36:03 ET
Posted by: Millicent Swackpee, Memphis

Do anyone know if Steely Dan gave a concert at the Shelby Farms in Tenn this year? Thanks you.


Date: Sun, December 28, 2003, 23:19:02 ET
Posted by: Bill/Pittsburgh, Skunk sighting

Saw this on another list:

Robert Randolph and the Family Band, Friday December 5, 2003 House Of Blues, Los Angeles I caught the last 40 minutes of this show, but it was an interesting 40 minutes. For some reason they had Robert as the early show and J.C Chavez from n' Sync as the late show. So when I arrived there were all these teenyboppers outside waiting to go into the House of Blues. Very strange sight considering it was a Friday night. Personally, I thought they should've had it revesed. Fortunatley I was escorted into the club along with JRap and we joined up with GT and Lady T. As we entered, the Family Band was in the midst of a ripping cover of Led Zeppelin's "Good Times, Bad Times" but with a familar face sitting in as Jeff "Skunk" Baxter was in the house. They segued into Jimi Hendrix's "Purple Haze" and Jeff left the stage and the Family Band kicked up into high gear. All of a sudden one of the crew from HOB was on stage trying to shut the curtain and the Family Band is just jamming. I'm watching all of this go down and I look at my watch, err phone, and figure they have at least 10 minutes left, boy was I wrong. Jeff Baxter came back out and they were jamming even harder and once they hit the crescendo and brought it down to close to set, the crew shut the curtains on them. Robert Randolph had peek his head out of the curtains to say thank you and good night. Well while he was doing that about a half dozen security guards ran up on the stage as there was some sort of skirmish behind the curtain. From what I gather it was between the two tour managers and no band members. Let's put it this way, I think the Family Band will have a new place to play the next time they are in Los Angeles. That was an interesting little scene.


Date: Sat, December 27, 2003, 21:41:38 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, Boogieland

Rajah- Glad to hear of your "Hey-Ya" conversion! It's a fun-fest alright. -- Believe there actually *is* a message in there about how we've lost our ability to have stable relationships.
[E.g. "We get together,oh! We get together/But separate's always better when there's feelings involved"]

(Coconut, which is one of my faves, I agree is lacking in deeper significance. Though thinking further it may be a comment on the inability of the health care profession to deal with tropically-induced gastrointestinal maladies ...)

Have you seen the Hey-Ya video?

(Wish the rest of the OutKast CD were as good. Admittedly have only given "The Love Below" one listen, but it's kinda spotty. Saw a review comparing Andre3000 with Prince and you get the same sense that quantity is too high a priority versus quality. Makes me more appreciative that D&W didn't try to jam EMG with 20-plus cuts just to fill space.
I'm sure some O.K. cuts will get better; Andre is definitely a special talent and might be huge if he could focus on the message & music and leave some of the gansta stuff (gratuitous sex and profanity) behind. I suppose that would be viewed as selling-out, but should not be.)

Laina- Actually was kinda kidding 'bout the Double-CD thing for our Dan boys, but it's interesting to see how BB & A3K (or their label?) handled their desire to go in different directions ... Will be interesting to see if they continue to diverge.
I worry that Don or Walt going solo will be less than the sum of the parts!


Date: Sat, December 27, 2003, 20:05:44 ET
Posted by: Cairo Fred, Chevy Chase, MD

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, Dandom.

Just listened to The Royal Scam (album) on my way back to DC from Philly. First Dan I've listened to in many weeks, and, of course, my amazement was renewed.

Best wishes for a wonderful '04.

John Dawson

P.S. - for you Balt/DC people, Cairo Fred will be at Clyde's in Chevy Chase on Friday, Jan 9. This will be one of your last chances to hang at Clyde's for a while, as renovations will be closing it down for some time. Not to mention Cairo Fred will be there.


Date: Sat, December 27, 2003, 18:12:09 ET
Posted by: Rajah , caught up in the generational trap

I don't wanna meetch yo momma,
I just wanna make you come-ah.

OK, I'm conceding that Cole Porter has nothing to fear from Outkast, but their song is starting to get to me. It's a kooky kocktail party. Or as one youngster said to me this holiday season, "that song is sicker than a Catholic priest." Word; so faced with this kind of unbridled endorsement, the Rajah consented to a repeated playing. It's as outlandishly ridiculous as the couplet above will attest and infectious much like the "Nah-nah-na -na hey hey hey, goodbye" song from three decades ago. The song is upper. "I Don't Wanna Work" "Lime in the Coconut" "Dance to the Music" Like these pop gems, Hey Ya! captures what we need most right now, a outpouring of joy. After all, who can argue with shake it, shake-shake, shake it.


Date: Sat, December 27, 2003, 06:36:56 ET
Posted by: Laina, una otra vez

PivPete--I think a double-but-solo disc by D&W could be *really* interesting musically. I'd sure love to hear it; but I wonder about the success of such a project. I mean if EMG didn't sell well, as great a showing as that is. . . .

I know it's been stated on here before, but I must ask again: Has EMG gone gold?

Lainalove


Date: Sat, December 27, 2003, 06:29:12 ET
Posted by: Laina,

You know, I would like to respond again to Motel6's comment. It was:

"Dr. Mu~ Since Laina is African-American I would like to hear her thoughts from her perspective."

First of all, Motel6, next time you post, how about you post with your usual handle and include your email, instead of being anoynmous? There must be some reason that you didn't post as yourself on this occasion... Secondly, I ask why you especially want to hear my opinion on this matter. *Simply* because of my ethnicity? I trust (perhaps naively so) that you meant nothing by it, but as Dr. Mu asked, am I now supposed to be some kind of spokeperson? I speak for myself. I mean, I don't think you would've said, "Since so-and-so is caucasian/Latino/asian/etc, I would like to hear his/her thoughts from his/her perspective." As though it were somehow relevant to the issue being discussed... Again, I assume that you didn't mean anything by it but something about that didn't sit well with me and I thought you should know. You can email me on it if you like.

Dr. Mu, we agree to disagree. And that is ooookay! :o) But I'm laughing at the part where you said "
...for what it's worth, all of my graduate students are minority/international students." It reminds me of people saying "Well I have [insert ethnicity here] friends."

I hope everyone on here is having a restful and relaxing time. Glad to have "met" the folks I have, Wreck-less and others. Onward toward yet another year. . . .

Lainalove


Date: Sat, December 27, 2003, 00:15:03 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Dr Mu-

"???Don and Walter should learn something about comedy???"

Not sure if this question was based on my post, but just in case -- the point was D&W might want to do a "double CD" with each disc a solo effort by the amazing duo. So we'd get "Steely Dan" and they'd get to expose their individual work -- which is what OutKast have done.

I would not suggest anyone could improve SD's comedy...

Regarding "evil" -- I don't know if we can conclude D&W believe it lurks in the hearts of all men. One line in a song is not a philosophy. The potential for evil or doing wrong or violent behavior may lie in each of us -- but historical, psychological and sociological evidence seems pretty strongly to indicate that it *usually* needs some special circumstance to bring it out.




Date: Fri, December 26, 2003, 21:43:11 ET
Posted by: bwaySteve, 43rd and Broadway

The best in luck and health to everyone associated with this great site. There has been so much to celebrate and reflect on this year from a musical point of view.
While the music industry continued to crumble we were treated to another excellent offering from Steely Dan and show after show of exciting performances.
I have gotten myself to a point where I can pretty much enjoy all music , even the crap. I always find something to learn, or get motivated to dig a little deeper to find out what the guy who likes the crap, sees in it.
It has been so nice to get to know many of you better through this board and the chatroom here.An oddball community of sorts has manifested and it was pretty amazing get together with so many of you in the flesh ( clothed ) to enjoy one of the best Summers in my recollection.
Let's hope there will be some Steely surprises in '04 to look forward to and continued creativity by our boys .I think they may feel some pressure to move in new directions . I hope they allow themselves to.
I was right up front at Roseland and you know, they seemed to be having fun.


Date: Fri, December 26, 2003, 20:00:03 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu,

Zenough: It's hopeless - and not relevant. There was no offense meant. Blues, Jazz, rock and roll, and reggae were all invented by African-Americans - does that mean only African-Americans can comment one way or the other about these various styles? That's seems like a racist comment - like saying because Laina is African-American, she should know something about basketball?! - I should be offended by the insinuation...?what's next - anyone who doesn't like rap is a racist??

Obviously I can't speak for African-Americans, but the majority of adult African-Americans I know don't care for rap and the lifestyle...

My point was related to stupid white people who make rap (M&M) or listen to it (who've never interacted with African Americans)...

The major difference between Laina and I is this: I believe evil lurks in the hearts of all men as Dan sez "...anybody on the street has murder in his eyes.."...as I read the discussion Laina believes it must be taught - simple disagreement. Case Closed. There is no conclusive right or wrong.

...for what it's worth, all of my graduate students are minority/international students...

???Don and Walter should learn something about comedy???


Date: Fri, December 26, 2003, 19:52:54 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Some of the top sax players in jazz have used rap frequently in some of their best albums, for example the virtuoso tenor/soprano Bill Evans' album Escape (Jon Herington is one of the 23 musicians featured) and several albums by Greg Osby. Jazz musicians of this caliber wouldn't get involved if it wasn't a sophisticated vehicle of expression.


Date: Fri, December 26, 2003, 16:25:59 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Laina-

You're most welcome!


Date: Fri, December 26, 2003, 15:28:16 ET
Posted by: Laina, ???

Enough'Zenough: Not a chance of that. But note that this has been dead for a little over a day, so...

Motel 206: Yes I am black, thank you for sharing. :o) And who are you again?

PivotalPete: Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!! Humor *is* a part of hip-hop and rap music, and artists like Missy Elliott, Andre3000 & Big Boi of OutKast, and Redman definitely include it in their rhymes. I'm also glad you made the point about your children. To the board at large, *you* may not be listening to rap or hip hop, but some of your children are. Ask them what *they* think about it. (And ask them if they feel like it's feeding into some latent anti-black racism...lmao) And let this be said again:

"Folks of advancing ages need to be careful to fall into the old generational trap."

Thank you for posting, Pete.

Lainalove


Date: Fri, December 26, 2003, 14:57:53 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Rap on rap...

Far as I can tell I'm with Laina in advising folks to back off a blanket condemnation of rap. It's not my favorite genre, but with kids of 10 and 14 I get exposed to some of it and it can be pretty entertaining and actually quite creative. The best intersperses oral/spoken-word performance with some pretty nice musical stuff (it's not all sampled) -- and the beats can be really hot. A bit like, hmmm, Slang of Ages ...

There is a bad element in rap, definitely a lot of unnecessary profanity, violence and misogyny -- but not *all* is like that. As for sexual references, it's pretty harsh but most prime time TV nowdays is not too subtle on that topic either. {Though I do prefer the cleverness of lines like "Who makes the traffic 'interesting'? !!}

Like lots of musical forms, rap can sound better with time as you let go of your initial resistance. Folks of advancing ages need to be careful to fall into the old generational trap. (My Dad recalls how his parents dissed that shocking Big Band sound.)

On a Dan-related note: Humor is also a part of rap (and Dan music). Missy Elliott's "Get yer Freak-on" is pretty funny, for example, and the current OutKast video "Hey-Ya" is a scream. Looks like a tribute to great 70s/80s groups like Ohio Players and the Clinton clan.
Perhaps more interestingly, the two key guys in OutKast (Big Boi and Dre) each made one of the "Double CDs" as a solo work, but package them together.

Could it be a solution for Don and Walt to consider?

"Shake it, shake it, shake it like a Polaroid picture..."



Date: Fri, December 26, 2003, 12:12:46 ET
Posted by: Motel6, plenty of rooms

Dr. Mu~ Since Laina is African-American I would like to hear her thoughts from her perspective.


Date: Fri, December 26, 2003, 02:15:36 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Merry xmas and happy holidays across the board....from the far east (boxing day well under way)


Date: Thurs, December 25, 2003, 16:25:17 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah you beautiful people.


Date: Thurs, December 25, 2003, 15:27:52 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, toasting all of my Danfan friends

First, thank you Hoops for this website and the opportunity to meet so many nice people this summer.
And merry Christmas to all of the fans, especially Scotty, Alan, Honeybun, Toya, Sam, Zim, South, Laina and WuDuF. I look forward to seeing you all again in 04.
Donald and Walter, Happy Hannukah, you two are much loved by your fans, your music is our own personal soundtrack. Hope you go on forever!

Much love,
Gretchen


Date: Thurs, December 25, 2003, 13:56:41 ET
Posted by: Nice Guy, Varies

I finally managed to get an (out-of-print) copy of "Reflections", a Thelonious Monk tune that Steve Khan recorded with Donald Fagen. Beautiful arrangement! Nice Xmas gift.


Date: Thurs, December 25, 2003, 13:18:20 ET
Posted by: Josey, Birmingham to St. Simons island GA.

Merry Christmas to all here in Dandom! Wishing I had a DVD of the 2003 tour to watch.


Date: Thurs, December 25, 2003, 11:43:15 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Happy Hanukkah (just 2.5 days left here) & Merry Christmas!

And thanks for everything.

jim


Date: Thurs, December 25, 2003, 08:33:25 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, Daybreak

Dear Wreck-less Crew:

Thank you for christmas. The first one I remember
that was more than just a day deep in December.
Back come the rush of memories, the hellos and the goodbyes,
the wonderlust that follows me since we gazed in each others' eyes.

And thank you for what I thought
I'd never find,
christmas of a kind,
I'd conjured in my mind.

As for the house lights, like Christmas down the hill
Off beyond the breaking dawn, I can see them still.
I suppose that I know even now that Christmas is for children
And not for grown-up women.

Still for a time, in the year
just passed
I wanted you to know
you gave me christmas at last.


Thinking of each of you with love,
LWO

P.S. The gifts are in the U.S. Mail! That means the Aussies should have theirs by Valentine's Day...xoxoxxoxo

(In light of recent copyright discussions, acknowledgement for much of the above verse is respectfully given to Rod McKuen.)



Date: Thurs, December 25, 2003, 06:10:29 ET
Posted by: KD, Lafayette, Indiana

Hey ev'ryone ...

Sailin' my icecats, loving life, loving the snow.

Have fun as the year turns over. Love and peace and understanding and plenty of funk for the whole family, aiight?

peace,

KD


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 23:33:04 ET
Posted by: Lutz, SF

Has anyone checked out Lukather's "Santamental" ?
It's produced by Elliot Scheiner and Luke and you can tell.
Some of the guests are Van Halen,Steve Vai to Sammy Davis Jr.(sampled).Bissonette is great as well.
The sound is fat and it really rocks...


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 22:22:56 ET
Posted by: Mike Lascuola, Colorado Springs, CO

Hi there
I'm in the process of forming a Steely Dan Tribute band. Click here for the site (under construction) and some sample tunes.

Thanks!

<http://www.mrdos.com/SteelinFromDan.htm>


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 21:42:15 ET
Posted by: Laina, eff it

*sigh*

I'm just going to leave this alone now. I'm done with it.

*walking out of thread, shaking my head*

Laina.


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 20:39:41 ET
Posted by: Jaco, UK

Happy Christmas, DanFans.



Here's to more years of happy lurking :)




Regards




Jaco


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 20:26:54 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,



"...Those kinds of things are taught and learned..." Largely, however learning by example or indoctrination or societal differences such as in the cities today or the South 40 years ago brings to the surface buried genes that promote anxiety other people who look and/or act different than your "group." (there's plenty of research on this -Eric or Medline or a peer-reviewed journal search engine in the Psychology/Sociology domain)...a latent survival mechanism


It is more important to unlearn tendencies...to learn there is more in common than different. Yes, it's important to mingle...but this life has taught me there are plenty who will interact just fine one on one, but are biased against a certain group...

...don't you remember how Cosby in the 80s was attacked because the family wasn't "black enough?"...from people who have good one on one skills. Ridiculous! That an African family couldn't have a physician and attourney as parents?


which reminds me with the unfortunate exception of African-Americans, the US has indeed been a melting pot for many different peoples...over the last 20 years we seem to be slipping into stereotypes from a media perspective...and that's a problem...especially one built around well, I've said it already...garbage in, garbage out...

It's weird. Naturally, I know no African Americans here to in any way resemble rappers, but I see stupid white teens down the streets parroting the language, gestures, etc.


Laina: most people do think in a way TV is real...most people thought Sonny Bono wasn't savvy (he was in reality)...


Happy Holidays!


smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes...they don't tell the truth..."


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 18:05:29 ET
Posted by: Scotty, Sydney

It's Christmas morning over here in Sydney and today will be about 105F. To the greater Dandom, have a safe and merry Christmas and may Santa deliver.

Toya, Gail, Joe, Sam, Alan and Gretchen. I wish we could all be together today, but my Christmas wish came true in late August.

Love you all.

Scotty


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 15:31:16 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Top grossing pop music tours of 2003 at
www.pollstaronline.com/2003yearend20.asp

This rap discussion in interesting. I read every issue of The Source cover to cover but to discuss it as necessary would lurch way way way off the topic of SD.


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 13:39:59 ET
Posted by: Laina,

Doctor Mu: "(2) The rap 'living large' lifestyle does not reflect the majority of African-Americans (any more than Jerry Springer reflects lifestyles of the white and middle to lower income) and feeds into latent anti-black racism in whites and Latinos...more importantly a large protion [sic] (but not all) encourages violence and misoginy...

'...y'all don't know what it's like, bein' male, middle class and white...'"

I agree that there are misogynistic and violent themes in a lot of *popular* rap music (remember I mentioned that there are other kinds of rap and hip hop out there). I also condede that the lifestyles promoted in much of *popular* rap music are atypical of those led by many black people living in the United States. However, you lost me with the claim that such music (or the lifestyles promoted therein) "feeds into latent anti-black racism in whites and Latinos."

Feeds into it? Well heck, that begs the question: How did the "whites and Latinos" in question come to be racist? Those kinds of things are taught and learned, Mu. However that claim is purely untrue. You mean to tell me that some "whites and Latinos" are so ignorant as to *really believe* that every black person they see is "ballin'" or "livin' large" like the black people in the videos on MTV?? And that, based on that erroneous belief, they would harbor racist feelings?

If this is what you're trying to say, you and those aforementioned "whites and Latinos" need to step away from the television and go interact with real people.

*disclaimer: I really didn't want to "take it there" but it's already *been* "taken there". I'm just continuing.*


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 12:59:58 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

Sparky - Rhythm that is spawned from an electronic gizmo, IMHO. Yes, the guy is catchy, I've downloaded a few of Eminem's lyrics just to see how clever they were and they truly are quite inventive. Complete with internal assonance. Now all he needs is Burt Bacharach, a strong sedative and a hate-ectomy. Let's not fight on Xmas Eve. Personally, I think Rap was shot into hyperspace as a reaction to the political correctness crusade of the early 90s.


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 11:04:17 ET
Posted by: WuDuF, jingling along in Bethel

Just wanted to wish all of my fellow Dan fan/friends a happy and peaceful holiday season! May you never break you New Year's Resolutions.....


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 10:22:13 ET
Posted by: errata,

were

sampling

biases

portion


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 10:16:04 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu,

Cleverness. Yes, some hip hop artists throw in clever lines. A few do "storytellin" like some of Eminem's stuff. To be fair one could call rap a "performance art" in an isolated category such as Stand-up Comedy. In fact, comfort in using and manipulating language in front of an audience is why a number of comedians and rappers (Queen Latifah, Ice T, even M&M) have been able to seem natural on film...some even graduated into real music such as Erykah Badu or Lauryn Hill...

There's only one rap album that made me turn my head - that was De La Soul's "3 Feet High and Rising" (1989) which feature clever sampling of Dan's "Peg" on "Eye Know." That was rap's pinnacle along with the first NWA album...same 'ol same 'ol from there...

Run DNC was excellent at phrasing - Eminem's no Fagen or Sinatra


The two major bias' I have against rap are two fold:

(1) smapling portions of other people's works...Very few rap artists write their own backround music...thus rappers are not musicians, and the form cannot be thought of as Music, maybe performance art.

(2) The rap "living large" lifestyle does not reflect the majority of African-Americans (any more than Jerry Springer reflects lifestyles of the white and middle to lower income) and feeds into latent anti-black racism in whites and Latinos...more importantly a large protion (but not all) encourages violence and misoginy...

"...y'all don't know what it's like, bein' male, middle class and white..."



Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 09:53:40 ET
Posted by: Peg, Land of the Cin

Rap music is an oxymoron, just like jumbo shrimp. Rap is anger, rage, violence, and lust screamed out atop a hypnotic beat and ripped off samples. The performance thereof can be an art. Putting it together takes a certain skill. I don't think it's anything to be all wigged out over, any more than acid jazz is (which I adore). Let it be. The test is to ask whether it will be played again 20 years from now when the kiddies who like it are our age. Can you see them? "Oh, listen. It's 50 Cent. Those were the days...." (giggling yet?)
Hey Gretchen, what is it with the Greg Norman cabernet? My very wealthy bro was serving it up at a party recently and one of his equally loaded friends brought in a bottle, too. I love a good cab, but just couldn't figure, tastewise, why it's so up. Is it just 'in' right now or????
I turned down a chance to be keyboardist in a brand new SD cover band that has formed here in the Cincinnati area. The guy who has put it together is really, really into the Dan. I had to refuse, unfortunately, because of other commitments. Anyway, those of you who live around this area should keep an eye out for it...When I find out what it's called, I'll report in.
Very happy holidays to all in Danland. God bless!


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 09:10:26 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, @flippin' work!



Merry Christmas and happy holidaze to all.

Let there be DAN on Earth.....


KC


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 03:40:46 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Rajah...so what's music ? I too don't find much 'music' in rap. Eminem keeps it pretty simple musically, but not rythymically (can you separate the two ?) and Dr. Mu I DO like his phrasing.

If music is great chords, strong melodies, solos, etc.....what about Dylan ? With some very notable exceptions(who got him to SING on Lay Lay Lay and Knockin' on Heaven's Door) with him I always thought it was more like poetry


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 02:26:51 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

Sparky - of course not, read the posts carefully. He's a wordsmith par excellance but not, IMHO, a musician.


Date: Wed, December 24, 2003, 01:30:30 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Is Eminem really being discounted here as a no talent ? I haven't been overexposed to rap (haven't missed it altogether either) but Eminem hits hard and I remember a lot of punkers trying to hit hard in the 70s. I took less notice of them.

Rap is not my music...I have to cherry pick to find things I like...but I respect Eminem's talent.


Date: Tues, December 23, 2003, 23:24:57 ET
Posted by: Doc Mu,

oh yes, buy Al Green's New One instead!!

...or Ben Folds' "Rockin the Suburbs" from a couple of years ago

or Rudy van Gelder's remaster of Horace Silver's 'Song for My Father"

(THERE'S your DAN link)


Date: Tues, December 23, 2003, 23:19:58 ET
Posted by: Dcotor Mu ,

Laina: Not only can I do it, but we did it way back when in the bus with a diverse group of wrestlers journeying by bus to Iowa for a national AAU meet (18 and under) - way back in '76. There were some brothas and I were playing cards and rapping over our guide/chaperone/whatevah - who had one Simon and Garfunkel tape that he played over and over and over over the 1800 miles...a strong wrestler one weight class up from me, James Cherry and a couple of others had family in the military - you start off with a marching kind of groove (note that this beat is a 60 cadences per minute of 120 foot stomps)...this was going on in the minihoods in the 70s...and we had a lot to rap about breaking down in a bus in Kentucky... not sleeping wandering around downtown Cincinnati because no one could sleep in the roach and scary bugs I've never seen before infested Hotel Cincinnati...where a farm boy saw his first hooker in a black and yellow striped halter top...and limping into Iowa City for a tournament with no AC and 100° heat - just like practice!...throwing the last match to head down to the river for a pizza eating contest, tequila sunrises and ganja...

...doo wop was fine (and it had notes) and an art form (it had notes), because 20 years later Sha Na Na was only a NOSTALGIA ACT!!! Rap's soooo 1989...

...face it, with paroxysmal exceptions commerical music radio has been in the dumper for 30+ years


...stack up "He doesn't know the Territory" against 'em

Clearly wasn't Dido the best part of the Eminem song?

Record Cos, know that rap is profitable and cheap to make...steal a few snatches of recorded music by other artists, don't bother the Brecker Brothers, arrangements, practicing with a band...none of that...and M&M can't phrase, can't hit the beat...he just talkes fast...

As Walter and Donald Said: PAY UP!!!! Word! Out!




Date: Tues, December 23, 2003, 23:07:09 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, Under the Nuclear Missle Toe

Hi Laina, Dr. Mu ...

I too am not at all interested in rap music, but, just because it doesn't speak to me doesn't mean that I dismiss it publicly. I guess what I'm saying here, is that I am not at all interested in it myself, and don't ever plan to have any rap in my music collection. But I am a firm believer in NOT ridiculing the tastes of other people. If people like (or even love ... imagine that ...) rap music, then, that's great. I have nothing bad or insulting to say about it.

Laina, you make a very interesting point about the rap that makes it to the radio versus the more artistically based rap ... rap that I have probably never heard. It is too easy to fall into the trap of taking what you hear on the radio as the "rap stereotype" ... as in ... all rap sounds the same, blah, blah, blah.

Again, I admit, that I am extremely disinclined to listen to even this more artfully based rap music ... but, again, I must say that I support everyone's desire to listen to the music of their choice.

After all, no one is ever going to stop me from listening to what I want to listen to ... my parents couldn't ... nor the wife. Ya just can't keep a good SteveeDan down. (Hey ... stop all that upchucking.)

Chunky Chanukah my mishpookas
(that's Yiddish for 'my family, or in the 'hood, 'homeys')


Stevee(Ebanezer)Dan


Date: Tues, December 23, 2003, 22:10:46 ET
Posted by: Laina, at home

Doctor Mu: "My motto still remains: 'If I could do it, it can't be art!'"

That's just the thing, Mu--ya can't. *shrugs* And lawd have mercy @ "Funky Cold Medina" (FYI that's by Tone Loc), the Beastie Boys and the Fresh Prince...hello and welcome to the year 2003, very nearly 2004. We've been waiting for you. :o)

I can't stand it when you all get to talkin' about rap and hip hop, because somehow rap and hip hop are to blame for the screwed state of music these days. Keep in mind that what you hear on the radio and on TV is the *popular* rap that's largely been stuck on cash, cars, clothes and hoes for the past five years. There *are* artists who are about making a cultural and musical contribution (and a track isn't "not music" simply because it doesn't contain instrumentation), but a lot of them don't get the airplay because some folks would rather hear the superficial stuff (fancy that?). But just because all you *hear* and *see* is what the stations play and televise, don't go painting ALL of urban music with the same brush. If you don't like it, that's fine and you're entitled to feel that way. But don't just say "That music is worthless" simply because *you* didn't like it. You may not feel like you need to hear another metal album, and you probably don't. I know I don't. But there's someone out there just waiting for the next metal album to drop, and s/he feels that metal has made a significant contribution to her/his life and to music in general.

I realize that there is a snappy tone to my post and if anyone's offended...that is most unfortunate. This particular topic irks me, when people try to disqualify a style of music simply because they don't/can't understand it, or don't care for it.

It's been over 20 years, and ya'll are *still* talkin' about "It's a phase, it's a joke..."

It ain't a joke.

Laina.


Date: Tues, December 23, 2003, 21:49:17 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, For one second it feels like Christmas

Finally finished wrapping at the 11th hour, as usual. Cards sent, social calls made, bag packed. There are 88 days left until spring. To all of my friends on the blue, have a wonderful holiday and be safe if you are traveling. Now it's on to a glass of Greg Norman cabernet and to sleep for me. To all a good night!
G


Date: Tues, December 23, 2003, 21:16:39 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu ,

"...REALLY upset over the new thing, the new musical abomination. Think of Rag-Time, Jazz, Rock n Roll. Is rap any worse?..."


WAIT!! Rap's been around for over 20 years (i.e., Over a generation!!) It was a novelty at first and a way for street poetry to be heard, I guess. Think about it, doesn't the stuff belong with Dr. Demento or an SNL skit? But just imagine the Radio filled with Ray Stevens knockoffs!! Rednecks clappin' and slappin' and 40 Hee-Haw movies a year... at least Ray Stevens "rapped" over his own music, rather than snatching other folks full bore recordings (not that Steely Dan would ever beg, steal, or borrow ;-) ...If I make collages out of famous paintings, the would fit in nicely in a Yoko Ono Museum, but that's no reason for 20+ years of it?... I've enjoyed the occasional Funky Cold Medina, Fresh Prince, Beastie Boys...it's not a generational thing - it's like I GOT IT, I GOT THE JOKE BEOOOWWTCH!!!!!! I'm just flat sick of it. No different than after 20+ years of Heavy Metal, do we *really* need another metal album?


not that I think we should go back to rap...no something new from blues and/or jazz and/or reggae

This goes for Rock and Pop as well...WHAT THE F*CK EVER HAPPENED TO MUSICIANSHIP!!!?? The ability to like, put notes together in a cool way!! Like playing real instuments?? Where's Professor Harold Hill?? ...but he doesn't know the territory!!!! (1950s Meredith Wilson rap OR Boot camp rap)

The ultimate argument is that Rap is the bastard son of Disco - DJs just got bored with playing that schlock and started to talk over the records...


My motto still remains:

"If I could do it, it can't be art!"


Date: Tues, December 23, 2003, 17:01:16 ET
Posted by: Bill, Pittsburgh

Wanna feel old? Me neither, but that's how I felt reading these critics' recaps of the 2003 music scene in Slate:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2092531/entry/2092544/

One of them is Rob Sheffield, a notoriously nasty and sarcastic character who has zinged SD in Rolling Stone on occasion, once even with faint praise of 2vN. Anyway, if you read some of this you can get a peek into the minds of the industry insiders and it is no mystery why EMG was nowhere to be found in the Grammys this year - it's more a wonder why 2vN crashed their party in 2000.

There's hardly anything on these lists that I've actually heard (as opposed to heard of, since many of these artists are ubiquitous in the media). Radiohead, sure, but they're apparently old hat already. I've heard a bit of the White Stripes and the many various other newer garage-type bands but they don't grab me, and I'm not opposed to good old loud three-chord rock if it's done with, as Pete Townshend once said, brains, balls and heart. OutKast seems to pop up on every TV program and award show but since I don't listen to mainstream radio I can't recall any of their music. I am beginning to feel like my parents' generation must have felt in the early 70s when Sinatra, Dean Martin, Perry Como etc were all still making records for a rapidly declining fan base - those record buyers would have been familiar with the Beatles, heard of the Stones and Dylan, and beyond that it was a vast mystery what "those kids" were listening to.

There's some consolation in the ongoing splintering of musical genres and the advent of direct marketing via web sites/internet radio/authorized downloads, not to mention those musicians who wisely support and permit fan recording and trading of live shows -- you don't really need to rely on the major labels, Clear Channel and MTV to know about new music, you just have to go digging for it. Usually, you don't have to dig too deep to find a like-minded community to share tips on music to your tastes - I've picked up quite a few here. I'm a big fan of New Orleans R&B and funk, and there are plenty of ways to hear about new acts and check out emerging recordings in that genre that would never make it on a Clear Channel playlist in a million years (Anders Osborne, Jon Cleary to name just two of my favorites).

To echo many of us here on the Blue, the hell with the Grammys, Clear Channel and the rest of the corporate music world that is intent on foisting more Britneys and Clay Aikens on us for a quick buck. Seek out good music on your own and spread the word about it.


Date: Tues, December 23, 2003, 11:32:16 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

Peter - Agreed, it's a peer thing, a kid-culture thing; should we be frightened about that? I dunno, the older generations have been warning of doom, disaster and moral turpitude ever since Elvis. Strange thing about the terrifying effect new musical forms and presentations have had historically on the populace; they generally scare the crap out of mom & dad and old farts in general, they always seem to cry out that they've "gone too far now." People seem to get REALLY upset over the new thing, the new musical abomination. Think of Rag-Time, Jazz, Rock n Roll. Is rap any worse? Yeah, I do think so cause of the anger, hate and violence; course I am one of those old farts now, so, can my judgment be trusted? Depends who you ask. Is it a reflection on our society? It's hard to say it's not. But our fiendish music industry has now lifted this stuff up (due in large part to the fact it's one of the few products that still really sells) and is trying to feed it to a mainstream audience; think of the demographic of the Grammy TV audience -- do the nominations for these so-called "big" awards jive with their musical tastes? Course not, it's marketing, they need to find young recruits. The networks, music conglomerates, and Grammy are now trying to address their declining sales and broadcast audience by shoving this down our collective throat on a Monday night in February.


Date: Tues, December 23, 2003, 10:36:34 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Rap dissers - people our age are listening to music qua music, that is, to appreicate the music and enjoy it for its own sake. Kids are not listening to rap with that intention, they listen to it as a rite of passage and out of peer pressure. It's more of a culture thing than a music thing. IMHO.

Bill - I have a Tinlsey Ellis CD, Kingpin, on which Richie Hayward plays drums. Awesome.


Date: Tues, December 23, 2003, 00:32:27 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

uM - I believe we can safely say that the boys and the corporate gargoyles that run record companies don't see eye to eye. Just a wild guess.


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 21:28:07 ET
Posted by: coD tuMour,

Jan: like a thuderbolt - YOU GOT IT!!! Artists are put forward by the record Cos on the nomination ballot. I could be wrong, but i believe that nomination ballots have greater circulation than the "and the winner is..." ballot. I'd bet Time - Warner/Reprise/Without Ted Turner or AOL didn't pu their name even in the freakin' hat!! ...but i think Walter and Donald prefere it this way

I don't know what happened, but a real cooling of SD and Warner/Reprise/Whatever obviously occurred...




Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 17:09:27 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Aftershock, L.A.

OK folks, you're not getting rid of me that easy. We had a 6.5 quake today in Cambria, California and my building in downtown LA shook like a Motherf**cker. 27 floors up, it's even worse a good feeling.

Jan - the only thing that makes sense and I mean the ONLY thing is that Reprise did not sunbmit EMG at all for consideration. With the record industry closing up ranks and suing 10 year olds, it's not unreasonable to think they stuck it to Don & Walt. Even Rollling Stone was surprised enough to include them in that dippy poll of theirs about which omission was the biggest surprise.


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 15:29:16 ET
Posted by: Steely Jan,

Nice post Rajah. You summarized my thoughts on the Grammys and Eminem, except that I might like the talentless prick even less than you do. Does any one know if EMG was on the Grammy ballot? On the Grammy website it looks like a recording must be nominated by an academy member or a record company. Since the record company did nothing to help EMG, I would not be surprised if they dropped the ball here. After nominations are received the Grammy people apparently make up a ballot with lists of eligible recordings in each category. Would they have the nerve to leave EMG off of the ballot? If EMG had made the ballot I have to believe that the engineers alone would have cast enough votes for it to make the finals for Album of the Year.


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 14:50:10 ET
Posted by: Woodman, Ottawa

Raj - I only pray their music is not relevant in 20 years - but you never know. That's the scary thing about this. I can remember back in the early 80's w/Duran Duran, Big Country, Men At Work, The Fixx, Tears for Fears etc. I was not a fan - but got the feeling that I might be missing out on something if I didn't go to their show's. Of course 20 years later I can laugh at it, but back then that was the reason why I went. Thankfully the little maturity that I have allows me to make the judgement about not going to an M&M, 50 cents, Ludacris show because it's just not my scene. Call it "getting a bang for my entertainment dollar".

And another thing - it seems like the music industry is destined to make something out of nothing. Case in point - the superstar of tomorrow has little or no staying power. With exceptions of course. But the trend seems to be that the superstars of today are trying too damn hard to be notorious rather then infamous.

And they are willing to sacrifice longevity for the quick buck. The Hip/Hop/Rap artists of the 70's/80's were pioneers, and because of their trailblaze they are held in higher esteem then those that followed. I would not go so far as you to claim that their art is a "format" because that is what people said when Miles and Trane introduced their jazz. Or even Pink Floyd for that matter.


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 13:58:18 ET
Posted by: Bill, Pittsburgh

Scroll past this if you're sick of reading about Little Feat.

I am a huge fan of theirs and probably the source of much of the LF discussion on this site, but never heard of Helen Watson. I will need to track her CD down. Most of the members of LF have been very active as session players, particularly Bill Payne, Fred Tackett and Richie Hayward.

My understanding about their reunion was that the surviving members were invited to a jam session to inaugurate a Los Angeles recording studio and had a lot of fun, then shortly afterward Bill Payne was touring with Fred Tackett behind Bob Seger and tapped him to officially Join The Band on guitar (he had been a studio sideman and co-writer with them in the 70s). They then looked for a singer who could fit Lowell's shoes and grabbed Craig Fuller without auditioning anyone else. Fuller had toured with the Feat in the 70s and had co-written some tunes with Feat's Paul Barerre. He lasted for three albums then tired of touring, and they brought in veteran backup singer Shaun Murphy (Clapton, Seger and others) to beef up the vocals. They just put out a DVD that I hope to find under the tree this week.

I was not offended by the oblique reference to Lowell George's passing. I know a wisecrack when I see one.

Back to your regularly scheduled Steely programming.


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 13:43:26 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

Gretchy - I'm so with you on Milkshake, yes, it does amuse me, but again this stuff lacks the emotional depth to speak to people for very long. They better start sampling "Even the Nights Are Better" by Air Supply.


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 13:32:02 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Another thought, what is the staying power of a song like "Milkshake," which is so popular now? It's kind of funny and amusing to listen to while you're running errands or something, but it's fluff.


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 13:18:11 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Rajah, do you mean Outcast or Ludicras? There's one really bad song out now, called "Stand Up" and it's Ludicras. (When I move you move, hell yeah). Really angry, violent bull**** if you ask me. Outcast was from "Ms. Jackson" and "So Fresh and Clean" fame, which were kind of OK.


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 13:01:21 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

I don't believe our generation needs to fear that "gap" thing we were so consumed with waaay back when. The kids do know a good chunk of "our" music and we theirs. I would never classify rap or hip hop as music, sorry to sound like an old fart. It's more of a performance format, I hesitate to say art form. I really can't fathom why you'd do anything but go see it performed; seeing Ludicris, Jayzee, Eminem or 50 Cent, OK, I could see that to experience the tribal element of it all and maybe catch a cap in my ass, but there is no way this stuff is going to be the least bit relevant in a coupla years. The early mummification of Grand Master Flash, Run DMC, Public Enemy, NWA, Hammer are all well deserved. These other people will follow suit shortly, Eminem included, and he's the most inventive street poet here. The artists themselves do not have a very long shelf-life, they'll be gone in a flash and replaced by others, unfortunately. That song by OutKast(is that hip-hop too?) that's getting all the airplay is funny and reminds me of Ray Stevens or Weird Al, not to be taken seriously. Best Comedy recording? Defen-ee. Shake it-shake-shake-shake it-shake it. Baby Got Back was funnier. Don't you lose that butt.


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 12:16:46 ET
Posted by: Woodman, Ottawa

Once again Raj and Gretchen are getting things done here in the green room. You both make excellent points re: the state of new music today. Yet I have to keep one foot on both sides of the fence on this one. The reason? I don't want to become musically "ignorant" as my folks were when I was a kid (I had to endure Lawrence Welk, James Last, etc. - they hated Rock n Roll). I do not like the attitude and violence SOME artists propogate. However, I don't want to paint all of them with the same brush. Some of the artists attitudes and opinions intrigue me, only because they seem to lower the bar every time they open their mouths. Furthermore, I wonder how intelligent they will appear when they hit 40, and their act is stale. Kind of like Johnny Lyndon. He is nothing but a clown of the image he once was. Artistic-integrity suffers whenever the public don't buy the schtick. I look back at my punk rock days and thank the Lord above that I managed to have enough maturity to survive and endure. I pray that this generation has the same fortitude. But isn't it always the "older generation" that gives these things the publicity it needs to survive?

Re: Grammy (and the music industry's) attitude towards Walt and Don - Who the F*ck cares? Certainly not Walt and Don. What was the title to their latest? Oh ya, Everything Must Go! I could care less about Grammy's and TV appearances. As long as they put out quality work, I will pay attention. As long as they tour close to home, I will go see them. And in the long run that's all that matters. I still listen to new Van Morrison, Joni Mitchell, Rikki Lee Jones or Neil Young despite what the radio stations are programmed to play or who is on the cover of a music magazine. As long as in my opinion the music is good, I'll buy it. And if you hadn't noticed - I did not mention the Rolling Stones here. They lost me after Some Girls.

Cheers,


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 11:40:46 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, work

I'm with you, Raj. The rap/hip hop music scene is dreadful, reflecting mostly violence, profanity, and lewdness. When it originated back in the late 70's it was quite different, being a unique and artistic form of music with lyrics people could identify with. What it has been degraded to now influences the younger generation to be sullen, mean spirited, and rude. The "youth" of today who buys Eminem, etc. have no cause for their movement, unlike the hippies of the 60's and 70's who were advocating peaceful coexistence and love. It seems to be the opposite now. It's a shame most of the entertainment industry caters to this group. And X box games like "Car Jacker" in my opinion are subliminal attempts at terrorist training. I just wonder if the world will undergo a new "Renaissance" period where are thoughtful and artistic products are fruits of a more enlightened labor. Humbug!


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 10:56:56 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

How pissed off must the record companies and Grammy be at Don & Walt? So they get their Grammies out of nowhere for 2vN, blowing out the Eminem and pissing off all the young people. Grammy acted as they had for decades, acknowledging both the body of work and the latest effort. But there was a backlash amonsgt people who care about this stuff three years ago, even prompting Eminem to yell out facetiously at the British Music Awards as he stepped to the podium to receive his Album of the Year or whatever he won, "..and the winner is...Steely Dan!" No class whatsoever, I think that's what I hate most about the rap and hip-hop, besides slapping every dedicated musician in the face, sorry that's how I feel, it's deadly dull and borish. Music for people who really don't like music. As Diane Keaton says in that movie with Jack, "how many words can you rhyme with 'bitch'?" Moronic. Steely Dan became somewhat of an object of derision after the Grammies, I can only gauge this from my daughter and her friends' reactions. Suddenly, Don & Walt were like, Lawrence Welk or worse, Air Supply. "Everything sounds the same" and "they always pull the same trick with their chords." Then we had the Steely Dan revolt against capitalism this summer, a shocking refusal to appear on Letterman, Today and VH-1. On a business level: suicide. Then Grammy gets a new honcho or whatever and decides to become, I'm sorry, a whore for the pop music scene. Ba-boom, Steely Dan returns to its personna as outsiders, musical lepers, personae non grata. Who are those Gauchos, amigo? Once again, it's Don & Walt, standing in their spangled leather ponchos. So be it.


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 09:58:33 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, at work - when does the holiday start?

Probably all ancient news:

Columnist in Oregon gives EMG honorable mention for top 10 albums this year:
http://www.oregonlive.com/entertainment/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/entertainment/10719255098450.xml

One reader complains about the terrible sound quality at Blossom Music Center in Ohio for Steely Dan.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/entertainment/music/7513428.htm

DVD-A comments:
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/sonoma/12.11.03/gift-guide-0350.html

Ed. Is the DVD-A of Gaucho actually out? - not the SACD or the DTS version.

SD lyrics in political editorials?

http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3606311&p1=01%7C%7C%7C%7C003


Did Donald actually say this about Madonna?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/features/20031207-9999_1a7varga.html


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 09:47:58 ET
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ / USA


The 1988 Bill Murray film, 'Scrooged' (directed by Richard Donner) does indeed include a scene with Miles Davis, Larry Carlton, David Sanborn, and Paul Schafer as street musicians; it was essentially a cameo. Murray's character Frank Cross is walking through the New York City streets with his brother (played by Murray's real-life brother John Murray), and as he passes the musicians on the street he says "nice job guys - did you learn that song yesterday?"

Randy / NIGHTFLY62@aol.com


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 08:38:00 ET
Posted by: Woodman - replying to himself, Ottawa

On the previous thread - NEVERMIND - I found out it is Larry.


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 08:30:44 ET
Posted by: Woodman, Ottawa

I saw the Bill Murray movie Scrooged for the upteenth time last night. There is this scene where Bill's character passes by some street musicians. In the band are Miles Davis, Paul Schaeffer, David Sanborn and a guitarist I thought looked like Larry Carleton. Can anyone confirm this?


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 06:45:39 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct, UK

Jaydee:

You do NOT want to hear "Santamental" either whole or in part. Trust me on this one - it is dire beyond belief.


Date: Mon, December 22, 2003, 03:45:27 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

Josey - it was actually notre copain Francais who mentioned the Carlton/Lukather live CD but, having checked out the clips on CDNow, I agree that it sounds excellent. Unfortunately (?) there were no clips of Lukather's intriguingly-titled Christmas album 'Santamental' !


Date: Sun, December 21, 2003, 20:26:02 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, The Musician's Morgue

Cool. (???)


Date: Sun, December 21, 2003, 19:01:54 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Allman Bros had 2 deaths in the bass position, Berry Oakley and Lamar Williams.


Date: Sun, December 21, 2003, 15:15:20 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan,

Actually, it's a very macabre (sp) thread. Not in keeping with the festive holiday spirit ... unless you want to scare the dickens out of somebody.

By the way, my crack about the ant ... was just that ... a crack, nothing more.

Gott it?


Date: Sun, December 21, 2003, 10:45:56 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

SteveeDan, other than Spinal Tap (lot's of dead drummers) I can't think of any other band's who have suffered great losses re: one instrument.


Date: Sun, December 21, 2003, 01:13:40 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan,

Did Eye? An' wot aboot hys weefe Donnnnnahhhh? How do YOU spell ... Sheesh?

Did you know that if you draw a line around an ant it won't cross it?
... Hold still.


Date: Sat, December 20, 2003, 22:12:09 ET
Posted by: jodi, the bitter & beautiful montague, MA




of course you mean Keith Godchaux?

got chalk?

heehee...


Date: Sat, December 20, 2003, 17:56:24 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, The Listening Library

Hi Norm, Hi everybody ...

I think you are right on the mark about Pastorious. I had the extreme pleasure to see Weather Report play in 1980 at the UC Berkeley Jazz Festival ... the line up was Joe Zawinul, Wayne Shorter, Peter Erskine, and Jaco Patorius. Their performance was just incredible. Jaco had a solo in the show, the other 3 guys left the stage for a while, and at the end of Jaco's solo, he started to plunge his bass into the amplifier ... very Peter Townshend. He totally blew the audience away.

Not too long after that jazz festival, which also had Joni Mitchell performing her tribute to Charles Mingus ... with Don Alias, Pat Metheny, Herbie Hancock, Tony Williams, and Jaco Pastorius, was the "Shawdows And Light" concert ... which had Lyle Mays on keyboards instead of Herbie Hancock. And instead of Wayne Shorter on sax, it was Michael Brecker. That is a great DVD for those of you who might not know about it ... go get it. It is one of the best in my collection.

And regarding Hodder and Porcaro ... deceased drummers thread ...
Steely Dan appears to have (based on this current spin on a topic) a mortality rate on drummers ... much like the Grateful Dead has with keyboard players: Pigpen, Keith Gottchalk, and Brent Midland.

Are there any other bands that have a multiple death rate in a particular "chair" in the band?



SteveeDan


Date: Sat, December 20, 2003, 13:57:55 ET
Posted by: norm,

Jaco - thanks for the info. I've heard differing opinions on the spoken word sections on POJ: some appreciate it for the documentary aspect, others find it intrusive on the music. I guess that's what the "program" function on the CD player is for!

I could see Jaco playing with SD in much the way he played with Joni Mitchell on the Shadows & Light tour - out front, but still supportive - especially if Peter Erskine were the drummer. Those two sound great together on Jaco's "Birthday Concert" album.


Date: Sat, December 20, 2003, 11:12:58 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Jaydee, don't know if I'm catching you too late on holiday - but are referring to the cd Carlton made with Steve Lukather on guitar and Bissonette on drums? Incredible work - they do a great take on "All Blues"!


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 22:13:01 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

The Green is very quiet tonight. Anyone?
G


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 21:31:01 ET
Posted by: Jaco, ...Norm....

I imported Portrait of Jaco to the UK for about $50. It's magificent, a true labour of love. It listens more like a documentary than a listening CD(s) but, it really is a must have for a Jaco fan.


I always dream about Jaco playing with other groups, esp the Dan. I cant imagine them being able to control his playing though!



Regards




Jaco


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 16:02:13 ET
Posted by: hoops,

The latest edition of the Dandom Digest has just been mailed. Please email me if you are already a subscriber and do not receive it within the next 12-18 hours of this posting. Some subscribers have had delivery blocked due to their firewalls or SPAM blockers.

Subjects in the Dandom Digest for December 13-19, 2003 include:

— EMG voted "Best Made-For-Surround Title"
— Fogel's Fotos Back soon
— RE: Android Warehouse
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— One more question on A.W.
— emg in perspective
— Re: Battle apple
— Re: SD Lyrics & Sex
—'SLANG ME' DEPT: "A Little Face Time"
— 5.1 gaucho
— Re: 5.1 gaucho vs DVD-A of Gaucho
— Correction to last Digest

If you wish to subscribe and do not yet, please see http://www.dandom.com/dandomdigest

Thank you.

jim


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 13:30:28 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

As a drummer, I too am a huge Porcaro fan. My pathetic attempts at playing 'Africa' and 'Hold the Line' made me realise how good he was. However, the only time I saw Toto it was Greg Bissonette.

When I was 16 I played in a band with a girl who later married Simon Phillips - I hate to think that she probably played him some of our dreadful recordings ! ('What the f@@@ is that drummer playing') !


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 12:41:24 ET
Posted by: Philippe, France

I was indeed aware of Lowell George's death, talking about Jeff Porcaro, I had the chance to see him live with Toto at the Montreux jazz festival, it's a very small venue, I stuck to the scene , just in front of the drum kit and for all the concert he kept smiling, most of the time playing eyes closed !! He really had a unique style, versatility, Simon Phillips who is now Toto's drummer does is best but,well, it has nothing to do with Jeff. When they played in my town, 6 years ago, Phillips was ill and Greg Bisonette replaced him, that guy has a lot of personnality, it was not exactly what Jeff played but it had the same richness (sorry my english is not very rich!). Larry Carlton hired him last year for his Grammy winning live album. Maybe the guys, D&W, should give him a try, at least Toto should "fire" Phillips and get him.
Going on holidays, see you in ten days.
Philippe


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 12:29:57 ET
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ / USA


(In response to the last post)

Yes, actually, drummer Jeff Porcaro is a better-suited candidate for the joke, as it is far more likely (while still of course speculative) that Porcaro may have been used again for Steely Dan sessions than the aforementioned (but equally dead) Jim Hodder; insert your favorite dead drummer as applicable-

Randy / NIGHTFLY62(at)aol.com


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 12:21:49 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

I was unaware of the date of Lowell George's demise, and enjoyed both the French and US sense of humour. However, isn't 'obscure reasons' more applicable to the great Jeff Porcaro's 'lack of availability' ?


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 11:47:06 ET
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA


Philippe,

I'm quite well versed in black humor as well as biting sarcasm (and a generally acerbic demeanor); I did write that I felt "obscure reasons" was a "great label," i.e. I enjoyed how you put it whether it was intentional or unintentional; it was a stab at humor for those not aware of (Lowell) George's date of death (whether you were one of them or not)-

Randy / NIGHTFLY62(at)aol.com


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 11:47:06 ET
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA


Philippe,

I'm quite well versed in black humor as well as biting sarcasm (and a generally acerbic demeanor); I did write that I felt "obscure reasons" was a "great label," i.e. I enjoyed how you put it whether it was intentional or unintentional; it was a stab at humor for those not aware of (Lowell) George's date of death (whether you were one of them or not)-

Randy / NIGHTFLY62(at)aol.com


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 11:34:00 ET
Posted by: Philippe, France

Randy, can you give me a more obscure reason for not being available !?
We call that black humor in France, don't know if you have the same expression, I admit it's not an example of very good taste.
Philippe


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 09:56:33 ET
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ / USA


In reference to the post below by Philippe wherein he states:

"...an english woman called Helen Watson who recorded her first album 'Blue slipper' in 1987 with Glyn Johns as a producer and Little Feat as a backing band plus Michael Landau instead of Lowell George who was unavailable at that time for obscure reasons..."

"Obscure reasons" is a great label for Lowell George's lack of "availability" (George died in 1979).

Jim Hodder will not appear on any Steely Dan recordings in the future primarily due to "obscure reasons"...

Randy / NIGHTFLY62(at)aol.com


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 09:45:10 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, Merry Christmas, Ho Ho Ho

Has anyone seen this tribute band, 9teen? Is anyone going to their show at Foxwoods Casino in Mashantucket, CT?

http://www.9teen.ws/9TeenIndex.htm


Title: 9Teen - Tribute to Steely Dan
Date: 12/19/03 - 12/19/03
Time: 10pm & Midnight
Location: B.B. King Nite Club
Ticket Price: No Cover
Description: 9Teen - Tribute To Steely Dan performs in the B.B. King Nite Club on Legends Nites, Friday, December 19th - two shows one at 10pm & one at midnight.

http://www.foxwoods.com/Entertainment/Nightlife/


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 09:01:52 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

WWW.DANFANNOVEL.COM


"Peter," he said to me across the huge oakwood desk, "I know you've done very well with your used car lot but you totally missed the boat to get into the big time with me. Do you know when you missed it?"

"When?"

"In 93, when Steely Dan started touring again."

"What are you talking about?"

He removed a card from the huge Rolodex that was on the desk between us and handed it to me. For a brief instant both of our fingers gripped each end of the card simultaneously,as if we were having a tug of war with it, and our eyes locked into a stare.

I read the card. It was the card of a U.S. senator from a Midwestern state, a guy who was in the news all the time, very influential on a couple of senate committees, the kind of guy who has a direct impact on whether or not a nominee makes it to the Supreme Court.

"If I call him, Peter, he takes the call. Not his assistants, but he himself. He owns stock in my company. He sends my kids birthday presents. I met him at a Steely Dan show."

"Get the fuck out of here."

We started going through his Rolodex. It was unbelievable - governors, mayors, U.S. congressmen, famous athletes, movie stars, foreign ministers from European powers, CEOS of major corporations, curators from the great museums of the world - movers and shakers from all over the globe, from all walks of life. "I met every single one of these people at a Steely Dan concert. You remember when we were kids, I used to tell you there had to be some kind of social event somewhere where we could meet big time players? Well, in 92, when I read Steely Dan was going on tour again, the light bulb went off in my head. I met a guy in the front row in a theater in Texas, he owns about four hundred apartment complexes in southern California, he told me his wife makes him fly their Lear Jet to every Steely Dan show everywhere in the world. He's my biggest shareholder."

I looked out the window of his office, at San Diego harbor. The sun was a fat, dying orange ball at the line of the horizon. I looked back to him; his hands were in a steeple in front of his face.

"You owe me a debt, Peter, it's time for me to collect it."


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 07:59:34 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, Des Moines - heading home today

Norm-

Just to clarify, I said MAX 600 pages -- through careful editing and a terse, Hammetesque style I'd like to keep it under 500. But I have not yet inked a publishing deal so at this point it's only a *potential* novel. Am also debating the theme -- might focus on Metheny fans, since the Dan Clan's being done.

Am collecting some photos, though ...

-Pete


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 05:42:27 ET
Posted by: hmph, huh huh...

Well, it's merely comparing lemons to oranges.
Sun Mountain is made up of demos, some of which later ended up on official releases, as they were meant to be heard.
Most were not meant to be heard.
Thus the question is moot.
And your musicology degrees are hitherto nullified.
Try again.

That goes for you too, by the way.

hmph



Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 04:43:44 ET
Posted by: norm chompsky,

Stevee - I've heard of watching your punctuation before, but this is ridiculous! (brrrmp-TSSSH!)

But seriously, folk - the Arthur Lee gig is Saturday the 27th. Are we in? "Love Songs...Nothing But Love Songs" - oop-ip-ip, oop-ip-ip, lib-i-louw, lib-i-louw, TIMM-EHHHHHHHH!

Speaking of which - so you saw South Park the other day too, Raj? Yeah, that's great how they manage to work things into the story that happened only days before. My guess is that the subplot about Ike being taken back by his Canadian parents was probably conceived a while back, along with some of the musical numbers. But even still, to work Saddam (a regular "cast member" over the years) into the plotline, put together a complete episode around it, and get it to the network in time for broadcasting within four days is still mighty impressive.

Vanilla Fudge - anyone familiar with Zappa's story about the Mothers opening for them in New York in 1968? After a while, a few guys started chanting in unison, "Youse guys stink...bring on da Fudge!" And along the lines of small touring groups: back when Frank was doing his "Shut Up And Play Yer Guitar" phase, I would have loved to see him in a trio with Vinnie C and Jaco Pastorius, or even have Jaco add some overdubs on FZ's guitar albums. Of course, it never would have happened, as Jaco was already well into his problems with drugs/alcohol and Frank wouldn't have put up with it for a second, but just think of the amazing music that might have come out of it!

And on the subject of Jaco...has anyone heard "Portrait Of Jaco," the recent release of his early years? I've meaning to get it, but haven't had forty spare bucks for it yet.

Pivotal Pete - ONLY 600 pages? Slacker! For some odd reason, that reminds me of one of my favorite album titles, by an '80s Canadian comedy/punk band called My Dog Popper: "668 - Neighbor Of The Beast" - a reference to the house into which Reagan moved after his presidency. Seems a few of his cronies bought the house for him, but the original address was 666, so they had it legally changed. (Kind of like the last episode of "The Prisoner," where Patrick McGoohan finally goes home, and the address on his house is 1.) MDP had shaved heads and giant styrofoam mohawks in festive colors such as pink and magenta, held in place with a rubber band going around their chins, and had a classic song called I Lost My Job To A Guy Named Gino. Well anyway, best of luck with the novel. Don't let the naysayers get you down.


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 04:31:48 ET
Posted by: Philippe, France

Before I take 10 days off for Christmas holidays, let me start a little discussion. Some of you mentionned Little Feat a few months ago, did you know that their reunion in the early 90's happened after a sort of Rosie Vela syndroma? In that case their own Rosie Vela was an english woman called Helen Watson who recorded her first album "Blue slipper"in 1987 with Glynn Johns as a producer and Little Feat as a backing band plus Michael Landau instead of Lowell George who was unavailable at that time for obscure reasons. The record itself is beautiful, strong playing, strong melodies, sophisticated and it was the first time since 1979 that the guys were together again in the studio. If you make a search on yahoo with Helen Watson and Blue slipper, you should find the full story. I have the l.p somewhere and I'm afraid it was never released on cd but I'll have to check that.
A la prochaine
Joyeux Noël
Philippe


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 02:12:07 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, Internal viewing ...

Aw ... Aw ... Awchooo !

Hmmmm ... I really gotta change my diet.


Date: Fri, December 19, 2003, 00:14:45 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

That, my friends, is dedication.

Long live SteveeDan!


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 23:49:52 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, Eating a grape

Oop ip ip, oop ip ip yeah indeed.

I think I need a camera-ecktomy. Every time I sneeze I get these weird photos of my colon.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 23:49:51 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, still Des Moines

DON and Walt


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 23:46:40 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, Des Moines (temporarily!)

Nice to see the "Summer of Love" psychedelia thread taking the place of the "Winter of Flames." Takes me back to my Bay Area youth ...

Even before the hippies made the scene in San Francisco they were strolling Telegraph Ave in Berzerkeley. Used to drive down there (with my Mom) just to watch them hang out...

For a real taste of that Berkeley, freaky, intellectual/neurotic sound a high recommendation is "Not-So-Sweet-Martha-Lorraine" by Country Joe and the Fish. Lyrical sample:

"Now she's the one who gives us all those magical things
And reads us stories out of the I Ching
Then she passes out a whole new basket of rings --
That, when you put on your hand, makes you one of
The Angel Band
And gives you the power to be a man.
But what it does for her you never quite understand
Sweet Lorraine... "

If Dan & Walt had been around then and there I think they might have come up with something similar.

P.S. Considered changing my name. I am not PeterQ and if I ever write a novel about Steely Dan Fans I solemnly promise to keep it to 600 pages, max!


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 21:04:45 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

Let's do it. And Norm, Stevee told me he has a new stealth digicam system; what he do, he load the ass-cam in his crotch and run a shutter wire up his shirt, around his neck and up thru his shnozz, then, to snap the shutter he points his crotch at the stage, then snorts. Circumvents the necessity of digging the pixel puppy from out his butt. Our boy Steven is ingenius.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 20:02:31 ET
Posted by: and when you see andnormagain, then you will be andnormagain

Stevee, Raj - how about we get together for Arthur Lee & Love at the Henry Fonda Theatre next week? Oop-ip-ip, oop-ip-ip, YEAH!

Cool to see so many Grape fans here. (I knew you guys had good taste!) You probably already know they share a common band member with the Dan, as Cornelius Bumpus appears on Live Grape (1978). It's not on par with their brilliant debut, but it has its moments.

re: SD quartet - how much would I pay to see it? If the venue holds 1000-3000, $100 seems fair. If they do small jazz clubs like The Baked Potato (max. 80), they'd need to charge a premium price, and it would be worth it.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 18:30:03 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

Norm, any friend of Stevee is a friend of mine. Now taking the lead from our Gretchen, let's you and me dress up as baked pretzels for the next PL gig and flop around in a mosh-pit of Dijon mustard, whaddya say? Oh yes, The Rajah he know how to party.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 17:58:34 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, In The Solarium

Whoops ! I hit the enter button before I got to the post itself. Sorry. ...

Rajah and Norm - I would like to introduce you two to each other. You have both been to Pretzel Logic gigs (a lot of them ... thank you) and you are both good friends of mine ... so by default, you are good friends of each other.

I would love to see a Steely Dan Quintet of some kind at the Wiltern or some other more intimate setting. I feel that a sax player needs to be in there too. Walt Weisskoff, or Bob Shepphard, or, ...

Money is no object. There is no economic yardstick that could be applied to an event of this magnitude.

Doctor Mu - Would a DVD-A disk sound better than a CD (of say, Kamakiriad or The Nightfly) if you are playing it on a standard DVD player through a typical (but great) stereo?

Gretchen - That San Francisco sound from the '60's was great. In many little pockets of the Bay Area, it's still going strong.

The Hippies, and all of that culture would head down to Los Angeles from time to time, giving the "Fuzz" something to freak out about, before heading back up to the safety of the Bay Area. Trips to SF in that era were very trippy, to say the least.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 17:53:28 ET
Posted by: Connie, in the vineyard

I think The Ultimate Spinach is a Boston band. I remember seeing them at The Boston Tea Party in 1967 or maybe 1966.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 17:38:01 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, In The Solarium


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 16:59:10 ET
Posted by: Woodman, Ottawa

What about the 12 dreams of Dr. Sardonicus by Spirit? Ya wanna talk about a freak-out. They weren't "Strawberry Alarm Clock" psychedelic but you could tell what era they recorded this gem in.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 16:53:16 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

I loved the Humble Pie.

And Gretchen, even though by now I feel like we're fairly well acquainted, I would never ever presume that I know you. I only know what you tell me but I can venture a guess and tell you are a very mercurial and ebullient spirit. So, psychadelic sundae...hmm...so you suit your concert outfit to the gestalt of the ensemble, is that fair to say? Well then, what would a fashionable woman like yourself wear to, say, an evening with My Life From The Thrill-Kill Cult? Let me sit down first.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 16:24:08 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

I'm thinking Fudge and Grape were 2 extremely underrated bands. Others I think that should have received more recognition and acclaim are Humble Pie, Robin Trower, and Free. The "Heartbreaker" cd by Free is amazing, more laid back than the Bad Company style it morphed into.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 16:04:39 ET
Posted by: Cairo Fred,

Just thinking about the vocals on Can't Buy a Thrill, I can hear the Hollies in Dirty Work (chorus) and Change of the Guard - the two-part bits!

I do business occasionally with a woman named Carrie Ann, and each time I'm singing that wonderful song all day long.

Wow, Vanilla Fudge. I thought they were great at the time. I think they were really young, too. Do they get the award for slowest band ever?

Fred


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 15:23:49 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Raj, I'm going to hope they play "Season of the Witch" and I'll be dressed as a psychedelic sundae. You really don't know me, do you, brother?


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 15:17:33 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

Gretchy - I'm trying to imagine you at a Fudge concert, sweetheart, and having some difficulty. What are you going to do after they play "Keep Me Hangin On"? And more importantly, what will you be wearing for VF and how will that differ from your SD outfit which you were considerate enough to outline for us here last summer? Inquiring minds and all. lol


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 15:00:15 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Speaking of psychedelia, Vanilla Fudge is touring the U.S. in '04! I know it's not the Dan, but planning my concert attendance helps me while away these cold wintry days. Planning to see Rundgren, too.
The Hollies had that sun-drenched, innocent sound that still makes them appealing. "Look through any window" and "Carrie Ann" were 2 of my favorites.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 14:55:44 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, Chillin (literally) in CT

During that time period, I was around 4 but always loved music and my mother would always have the radio on. I discovered FM at a very young age, and remember all the psychedelic music from the late 60's. It was just like background music for me, listening to music all the time whether I was outside playing or in my room. I only wish I had been born earlier and lived in 60's San Francisco!
G


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 14:45:51 ET
Posted by: Cairo Fred, uptown, baby, uptown

Man, you guys are really stepping up to the plate. I've got Hey Grandma playing on the mental stereo as the answer to my own question - course, if that was an influence, the boys really just took things to a new level of polish and shine.

Gretchen - almost sounds like you were in SF then! (Am I right about the city??).

Cairo John


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 14:38:00 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

If memory serves, Ultimate Spinach were a freaky psychadelic band that only did a couple albums. Each song attempted like umpteen musical styles all jumbled together. Then they reformed and the Skunk played with them but I don't remember anything about that album.

The Hollies were brilliant hit makers, a great vocal group. Bus Stop; Stop Stop Stop, Carrie-Ann, Look Through Any Window. Graham Nash made them special vocally. The Raj still has all the 45 singles with that yellow Epic label on his shelf, having purchased them in his tender boyhood years. Dr. Wu would be a great tune for them to cover, Reelin, Peg and Pixeleen.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 14:22:55 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, Interstellar Overdrive

Moby Grape! How good it would be to hear some of that stuff on the radio now. Their cheery vocal harmonies and complex guitar work may have had some influence on the Dan, but their sound leaned more toward the country rock genre. They were a great band, and unfortunately let their management create a persona that was so at odds with the musicians themselves it led to self destruction.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 14:10:52 ET
Posted by: 'kay,

I would happily pay $150-$200 to see a smaller-venue "piano jazz" type gig with DF & WB and a few others. The initimacy alone would make that price worthwhile.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 13:55:10 ET
Posted by: Cairo Fred, DC, baby.

It's been awhile - since logging in here, and since listening to any Dan. Strange...

The two posts that really baught my eye were from Dr. Mu and Jaydee, both items worthy of musicological research.

Dr. Mu: "OK, the BIG question is just HOW did Walter and Becker supe up their sound from the Sun Mountain Daze to Steely Dan?"

I remember reading (Brian Sweet?) how Denny Dias was shocked at how different the music was when he joined them in California. They had already written Brooklyn back in Brooklyn (but that was like a Dylan thing), and Caves (instinctively they knew it was a good idea but that they needed to develop some compositional maturity before being able to bring it to its full realization), but where the hell did the likes of Reelin' in the Years come from?? I think I've read Walter speaking of their NEED to write material that was going to hit, or their understanding that it would be a good career move, but, man...

I'll give you a topic: The Influence of San Francisco bands such as Moby Grape and Ultimate Spinach on Steely Dan. And The Hollies. Discuss.

And Jaydee's ?: "does anyone know of a source, other than Brian Sweet, for 'Maxine' being written around the drum track from another recording? And has the original ever been heard?"

That would be a wonderful rarity to hear, and would in no way diminish one's appreciation for Maxine, one of the most glorious compositions (and recordings) in all of American popular music.

Best wishes to all.

john@cairofred.com


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 13:13:48 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

I like both of those quotes. The Donald pulls no punches. Reinvention comes from within.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 13:07:17 ET
Posted by: Shane,

Good links.

Fagen didn' t say that about Madonna, someone else did. Fagen said, "Madonna puts on a new hat and she's 'reinvented' herself – as if there was anything to reinvent in the first place."


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 10:49:09 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

n - what kind of money would you be willing to pay for a ticket to the Becker/Fagen quartet with Carlock and Jay Leonhart at like Carnegie or Avery Fisher Hall or the Wiltern Theatre or Royce Hall at UCLA? 100-150-200-300?

Norm - how did South Park cover Saddam's capture so quick? Awesome.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 10:03:23 ET
Posted by: It's that time of the year, Steely Dan Hate Mail Vol.V

That's my man:

"– Steely Dan's Donald Fagen evaluates the Material Girl's artistry.

"Madonna started it – a whole tradition of trying to figure out how far you can take no talent.""

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/features/20031207-9999_1a7varga.html

You're not MY Donald.
You're one of today's opiniated broads:

"Donald Fagen, Kamakiriad (Rhino/Warner/Reprise). Ten years ago, Fagen, one half of Steely Dan, unleashed this oddball solo concept album (based on a futuristic car and space girls, no less) to little fanfare. This is one of the best examples of DVD-A enhancing a mediocre album."

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/sonoma/12.11.03/gift-guide-0350.html

Break out the bubbly. Scheiner nominated for Grammy:

"Nature Boy – The Standards Album," Dave O'Donnell, Malcolm Pollack and Elliot Scheiner, engineers (Aaron Neville)."

http://www.wcnc.com/sharedcontent/features/poprock2/120503ccmusicgrammylist.71738ae2.html


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 05:46:15 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

The Steely Dan Quintet - a week at Ronnie Scotts? Some classic covers and a few Dan tunes? Yes, I might get out of bed for that one.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 04:22:57 ET
Posted by: n,

Speaking of Carlock, wouldn't it be wild if SD did a limited tour (say, eight or ten major cities, maybe Europe too) as a quartet, a la the Piano Jazz lineup, maybe a backup singer or two? I'd go.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 04:15:48 ET
Posted by: norm,

Mu: I've actually never heard surround sound, as I haven't gotten any major jones to seek it out, nor have any of my friends. (Music at its best is 3D enough for me in stereo, and I like that quote about knowing musicians well enough to not want them behind you.) Do you find that a mix that sounded full on two speakers starts to thin out over five, or is that all down to the mix?



South Park was great last night, by the way.


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 02:34:11 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu, Texas


This is a measure of only the improvement of DVD-A over the CD version in sound...I only listen by choice and by wallet to stereo


Nightfly > 2vN > Kamakirad > EMG


This doesn't mean that EMG is the weakest album...The bass is muddier than the CD although the cymbals are sharper and with more clarity

Kama is quite bright but a lot less 2-D on DVD-A - primarily Countermoon which has been remixed quite a bit...Snowbound, Florida Room, and On the Dunes are worth it plus the very peculiar videos for Tomorrows' Girls and expecially Snowbound...Spring time opens up as well


The Nightfly DVD-A now sounds more like the vinyl version I remember...Rainey's bass on Green Flower Street rules!

TvN sounds fab on DVD-A...you can really hear Carlock go to town on the title track. Drums overall are a lot more live (wet) sounding and less harsh...

...one thing I wish they had done on EMG was to let the Carlock monster out of the box a bit more...they couldn't contain that energy in concert - let him roam! You can hear things just getting oiled up on Lunch with Gina and the title track, then the album's over...


Date: Thurs, December 18, 2003, 01:09:31 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

angel - that's why I think Pretzel Logic was the first true Smell-o-vision album, smell those chestnuts, indeed.

China - The DVD-A thing is as crazy as you wanna get. If you have a basic Surround amp with 5 speakers and attach a DVD player, you're in business but you won't be hearing the true 5.1 DTS sound. Craziness occurs with a 5.1 or 6.1 DTS amp, a set of 4 or 5 speakers with a subwoofer on the floor and a true DVD-A player.


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 23:46:50 ET
Posted by: angel,

Ole: Thanks for the heads up.
Everything Must Go Ho Ho! (and me thinking that their site was in suspended animation.) Too cute. :-)
My favorite is still the Pretzel Logic guy with the Santa hat. I can even smell the burnt chestnuts....


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 23:22:48 ET
Posted by: oleander, holiday cheeze

Ah, the sound of jingling bells and low-level sniping. The holidaze must be here. The Santa hat on the EMG guy tickles me.

Back to lurking before a crackling fire. Happy holidays all.


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 22:53:53 ET
Posted by: Shane,



Gary Katz is working with a new band, Lloyd Dobler Effect .


http://washingtontimes.com/weekend/20031216-102547-7011r.htm


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 22:31:55 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Can anyone background me on the DVD-A deal ? What is the set-up ? Is it just the player, or is it speakers as well ? What's the cost...and who makes the best stuff ?


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 22:09:20 ET
Posted by: fife, ontario

Well i'm sitting here it's wednesday night and I'm watching Dave Foley's True Meaning of Christmas Specials, a CBC production. It has lots of canadian celebrities including mike myers. Dave's quest is to find the true meaning of christmas specials so of course the obligatory 3 ghost of past, present and future. so i'm sitting here enjoying this great canadian humor when the ghost of christmas future, kevin macdonald dressed as an alien kind of future says to dave our music is very different to your christmas past which included steely dan and early genesis! well my night was made, eh.
Merry Christmas everyone


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 18:02:28 ET
Posted by: Laina,

All's quiet on the board front....is anyone up for chat in the Greenroom?

Lainalove


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 17:36:51 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, Buggin' Out to the Dugout

Ok, OK.

The point has been made. The apologies and acknowledgements have, for the most, part been made. No need to carry this stuff around anymore. Let the healing and reconciliation begin. 'Tis the season, and all that.

That Nightfly DVD-A sounds massive, it's like you are in the center of a machine. The horns and strings are in the rear speakers (as well as in the front like traditional stereo mixes). Also the "sound effects tracks are doubled in the rear speakers. 2VN also flew the horns to the rear. When you sit right in the middle, it truly does sound tightly sewn up. It's a great aural experience.

The "Imaginery Day" DVD-A (Pat Metheny) is even better than 2VN. That broad music and production plateau of Metheny's is really amazing to listen to in DVD-A. There's sort of like an IMAX experience to this DVD-A listening experience.


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 16:45:29 ET
Posted by: Woodman, Ottawa

DANDOM:

It's a freakin' picture!

Get off the damn tuna boat - are ya that bored?

Tis the season folks - let's just relax!


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 14:14:26 ET
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ/USA


And I say unto you all (directed at no one in particular):

Who are these assholes who scheme and run wild?

Randy / NIGHTFLY62(at)aol.com


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 13:49:48 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Whoa nelly, never let it be said BB is for the faint of heart. Sometimes I'm reticent about peeking back in for fear of the carnage strewn all over the field, a leg here, a severed head there. Scary. Save for the deep emotional scarring everything looks like it's cleaned itself up pretty much. Deep breath.

RCray - on the DVD-A thread from yesterday, Kamakiri sounds so bright it kinda makes you nutty. Don't listen to it for relaxation puposes. 2vN and EMG, because of the massive and unapologetic infusion of jazz influence, for me, do not shine as brightly as Nightfly and Kamakiri in this particular format. They shine in a different way, these last two records are deeper excursions into situation and experience. Plops you into Rappongi, a dark house where someone's trying to off their missus, skeevie guy eyeing his cousin in front of a fireplace, a white collar crimminal engaged in oral copulation with his secretary while being videotaped, ya know, just normal folks doin business in the normal SD way.


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 12:47:58 ET
Posted by: Clutch Cargo, the jungle with Spinner and Paddlefoot

Hey, now, come on. It's the holiday season, for crying out loud. All of this bickering is really pissing me off. Don't make me come up there with Swampy and a 6 foot boa constrictor.


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 11:18:38 ET
Posted by: Big shot,

Peter Q- What you said is that the picture is "all over the web" Show us one other place it's posted witout credit.


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 07:52:45 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Beerberian - you may notice he posted that the link given is just one of the places you can see that picture, uncredited, on the web. For more, email to the addy given in this post.

I'm not Leo - if I make a statement that is obviously not an opinion, like what a lyric means or something like that, I back it up with evidence. At least four people here flamed me, saying it was not true that that pic is uncredited on the web. It is, as we have now proven, obviously and inarguably true. I don't expect anyone will have the courtesy to apologize, and that's fine. Everybody knows what the real issue here is anyway - people are furious that I would have the audacity to write a 700 page novel and make a site about it online. All this other stuff is really about that, let's be real. If it wasn't about copyright issues it would be some other contrived issue to try to denigrate me. Again, fine. All the blood, sweat and tears will pay off.

I just say thanks to all who have read my samples and emailed feedback.


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 06:40:44 ET
Posted by: Beerberian, @it

Just a couple of dignified observations ...

Supposition 1; You did actually say "should know that that picture is all over the web without a credit" All over ?

Supposition 3; Bit of a shame that Mr Smitty couldna come on and apologised (albeit justifiably???) himself ...

No such thing as bad publicity ? think on ...


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 05:55:00 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

PS - "slamming" refers to flame cowards only, not people with dignity.


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 05:38:49 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Fact 1: The picture exists in the public domain without a credit to Pete Fogel, exactly as I said it did, and Smitty provided the link in the post. That's Fact 1. So anyone who claimed otherwise, view that link. Any questions about it, email Smitty at the address provided here. Whether it's a flame coward like Leo or someone with good intentions like Hoops, I'm not going to be called a liar and I'm certainly not going to be accused of copyright infringement.

Great to know that some people would think I would undertake a project like that and not know what I'm doing, not to mention working with one of the acknowledged consummate professionals in the website business. I will grant that his post was a bit strong, probably out of justifiable anger.

Fact 2: About 2 seconds after I learned the picture was Pete's, I emailed him for permission to use it. Judging by the fact that it's still there you can see what his answer was. So again, here I am being berated for something that I have already taken care of.

So I would like to see if those who posted, quote, "Bullshit!" when I claimed the picture was on the web w/out a credit will apologize here, now that I have shown it does.


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 04:55:15 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Peter Q.....is this 'Smitty' really a representative of yours ?

Why is he uttering blanket threats on this board ?

You're a smart guy. Work this out in a way that reflects that.


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 03:33:30 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, Avoiding Latin prep

'Charles Winchester' got me thinking. Well, Rajah has to be Hawkeye, I guess. Would Hoops be happy with Col Potter? And what about Radar, Klinger, Hotlips and Frank ?

I'd pitch for Father Mulcahy, but would probably end up as 'wounded soldier 3'!


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 03:04:35 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, putting hand up at the back of the class

Err ... does anyone know of a source, other than Brian Sweet, for 'Maxine' being written around the drum track from another recording? And has the original ever been heard?


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 01:14:46 ET
Posted by: Michael Jackson's Other Glove,

Turn your head and cough


Date: Wed, December 17, 2003, 00:08:47 ET
Posted by: Sweet Little Rock and Roller,

"To those of you who are slamming Pete, I will find you, and slam you. Leave Pete alone. This should be a friendly board, with good intentions, not a bunch of pee brained cuss monkeys."

Yeah, civility with a capital 'S'.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 23:54:35 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, From a less patient space

Smitty - You've got a lot to learn about diplomacy. I might also suggest you consult a Websters dictionary and some other reference material such as a compendium on legal matters including copywrite infringement (copywrites, trademarks, and patents).

The facts surrounding the use of Mr. Fogel's photo on Peter Q's website have been layed out for you and your client Peter Q. Mr. Fogel also extended his generosity to you both. Instead, you decide to pull out the iron glove around here?

I and many others here would invite you to "put the iron glove back in". You might find this an easier task if you "shove it".

But, everybody, it looks like Peter Q (whom I have not attacked, nor am I doing so now) has provided Leo with a sparring monkey. And speaking of that why don't you guys "take it outside". Social misfits like yourselves are not going to be allowed to unwittingly insult the VIPs, lovely ladies, and other esteemed guests whom are here at the party.

Seems like we could benefit from a padded locked-down room for these folks, so that we can get on with the real reasons we all frequent this place.

If you cannot wrap your head around what I have said here, you may discard it ... or perhaps ... put it with the iron glove.


SteveeDan


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 23:46:09 ET
Posted by: fife, snowbound

If anyone's interested Mike Macdonald is on Dave Letterman tonight playing with Paul's band


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 22:20:27 ET
Posted by: Smitty,

TO ALL ON THIS BOARD! I am the webmaster for PeterQ. If you have any problems with Pete’s information, you will take it up with me! I create EVERYTHING you see on Pete’s website, so direct any of your remarks toward me- not Pete.

To those of you who are slamming Pete, I will find you, and slam you. Leave Pete alone. This should be a friendly board, with good intentions, not a bunch of pee brained cuss monkeys.

Here is the link to the picture you are all questioning: http://212.238.227.179:8080/SteelyDanDatabase/personinfo.jsp?id=1#top , It is just one place on the net where you will find it. No credits there.

Again you can take this as a warning to leave Pete alone with any web content, talk to me with any questions, and you better talk civil.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 22:19:39 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Just caught Carlock on a Victoria Secrets repeat. First time I've seen it. I don't know if it's the bottle of port I had earlier, but that damn Sting, who I've sited as a strong musical influence for a long time now, was up there dancing like he'd lost his way! Did anyone else notice this? Am I drunk? Was it utterly void of anything masculine? Help me Rhonda! I need to know.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 19:05:09 ET
Posted by: Earthbound, Manatee Bar

Hola amigi!

Long time since my last post. HAVE to, coz I went
to se ReelyDan at Harry's out in the CHI 'burbs
last Saturday night and had a great time!
Bob Blom really showed up to lay and Dennis Shepard
was right there throwin' it down for all to see.
Opened with "Pretzel Logic" and closed with a killer
run thru "The Last Mall".
Big changes this time: Five new faces, incl. the
entire horn section(Tenor, Trumpet, Trombone!).
Bassman stood apart and kept that funked-up groove
while Megs vibed out in a corner behind the bar.
New bvox gal too! "Where did you get those shoes?!"

"Babylon Sisters", as always, and the formidable "DTMA"
too! And their "Ruby Baby" rules! They hammered out
three sets and left everyone happy and some fully buzzed.

If you're near CHI next time they play - don't miss
'em! (reelydan.com)

LUV to all,
Earthbound Keith


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 19:00:16 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Raj, I'd be willing to bet Carlock would go out with the boys again. Hope I'm not thinking wishfully - but as you know all too well, that's a pie-in-the-sky gig. I'm certain he's not going to be experiencing any downtime from now on, but I'd guess that he'll give those guys priority should they rehire him.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 18:23:43 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Joseph: Just talkin bout Shaft.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 18:13:16 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" So please don't try to focus on any one word, we are supremely immune to your deconstruction. Give us your thought process and show yourself if you want to ......................."

Pure Genius


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 17:54:16 ET
Posted by: NWA ORU,

JUST SURFED IN AND ENJOYED THE MESSAGES.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 17:39:02 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Hoops, I wanna give you a new nickname: SWEETNESS - my drummer friends this summer were so impressed by Carlock's style, his organic jazz presentation, he can't help it, and I have to grudgingly admit after seeing KC with Sting twice on TV, his magic is real. People, Carlock is a star and probably won't appear with our boys live again. It's like Michael McDonald squared.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 17:26:52 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Six degrees of Kevin Bacon? How about two degrees of Keith Carlock.

A little while ago, I run into one of the grad students who is from Mississippi. He's not a huge Steely Dan fan but, to make a long story short, it turns out he grew up a few doors down from Keith Carlock who was 4-5 years older than him. "Always a monster on drums. Everyone in the neighborhood knew he was a big deal in the bands and all."

Small world, eh?


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 16:59:38 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Petey - the more I read your shit, the more I wonder about you, you tweeked and twisted sex monkey. That's so funny because online here you're fairly normal. Come to the realization, you are a sick fruity beee aaaatch and in mi countri, we truly, truly love you. So there.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 16:34:35 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Peter Q:

I find reading your posts like reading Herbert Muschamp, the architecture critic of the New York Times. Often his opinions are so well-written, my students and colleagues consider his opinions fact when they are half-fiction. Nevertheless, Muschamp's writings make interesting starting points for discussion in class. For whatever reason, I've always read your posts visualizing them as being read by Charles Winchester on the old M*A*S*H TV show.

I've experienced people lifting my own writings and work and incorporating them into their site without giving them credit. A couple of times, someone downloaded my entire site and used it as their own. A lot of times they mean well but are too ignorant to know better. What bothers me about the photo thing is that, kinda like Charles Winchester, you, the guy who is always splitting hairs with people, are selectively and smugly dismissive of it as "oh, a lot of people do it." Excuse me, but you portray yourself as the guy who knows more than any of us. Then you help yourself to a photo and say it's everywhere. Bullshit! Leo-Shaun WebTV Dork is right. Where? Who has this photo on their page without a credit? You make a big deal about your sample page being representative and how creative and original your site is: yet, your very first, "representative" photo is such don't even know where the photo came from (or so you say). Your webhosting told you it was OK? I'd fire them. When you incorporate others' work without copyright you effectively invalidate your own copyright.

I don't know all about the photos that Pete takes, but from what I have seen of his rig and gear, I'm pretty certain he pays hundreds and even thousands of dollars to buy or rent the equipment he needs to take shots like that, probably out of his own pocket. Maybe you don't realize it but taking a photo like that isn't something to get with a disposable you buy at Walgreen's. A lot of photogs even charge to use such photos.

After that, I thought it was especially generous for Pete to post his O.K. Not because of all the ignorance you claimed about the photo over the weekend, but how smugly and sarcastically you responded to the issue of using someone else's hard work without credit. It's one thing to use someone else's work; it's another thing to respond like it's not such a big deal. I was mad about this when I saw your comments before Pete came on and said "no problem." Then I figured that was enough said.

But then this morning I saw your post about the picture being everywhere, like it still was not a big deal. Bullshit! If I were Pete, I'd withdraw permission to use any of his photos in a flash. This whole thing is like if you hadn't got caught it wouldn't have bothered you a bit. I'm not pissed about the copyright issue so much as you're acting like a weasel.

Leo-Shaun WebTV Dork:

The fact that there are so many other SD venues and you choose to keep coming back here, despite how much you hate it, further demonstrates what a nut you are.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 16:33:10 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, Sitting in a circle of my Steely Dan CDs ...

Poor, poor Leo. Looks like "someone" will be joining the company of another infamous "persona non grata". Perhaps a double suicide/homicide is in order. We could call them "Babs and Clean Willie" ...

I was thinking of Steely Dan lyric references to put together with Saddam in his little bunker hole ... but you rogue scholars have beaten me to the punch ... but I'd like to put up the list, and see what we could add to it:

Respective Hidey Holes - Two Against Nature
I'm gonna dig myself a hole - Black Friday
Fire In The Hole - that's what it's called

then there are the regime changes:

Old Regime - pre-Steely Dan song
Any World That I'm Welcome To (Is Better Than the One I Come From) - is he REALLY welcome anywhere?
Kings (We've seen the last of Good King Richard ...)
Change Of The Guard
Razor Boy (Will you still have a song to sing when the Razor Boy comes and takes your fancy things away ...)
Through With Buzz
With A Gun (he was found in that hole with a gun)
Everything You Did (Now you're gonna tell me everything you did ...)
Deacon Blues ( ... I want a name when I lose ...)
On The Dunes (or should that be "Under The Dunes")
Down In The Bottom (Becker) (down in the bottom - of that rat hole)
Book Of Liars (Becker)
My Waterloo (Becker) (his waterloo indeed)
Things I Miss The Most (like, everything)
Godwhacker (we tracked your almighty ass through seven heaven worlds)
Everything Must Go (as must he)

I realize that a few (OK, many) of these are a stretch, but, isn't that what we DO around here ?

Maybe this will get some people going around here. And speaking of having to get going ...


SteveeDan




Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 16:31:18 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Only a cad spoiling for a fight would submit that proof of my Laina's insensitivity would be her use the word "retard". Case in point: my daughter's girlfriend is a young PhD at a mental facility and the whole very dedicated and professional staff refers to the patients as "retards" amongst themselves. We laughed so much over that at Thanksgiving. It's human nature and does in no way betray prejudice. So please don't try to focus on any one word, we are supremely immune to your deconstruction. Give us your thought process and show yourself if you want to, and if our very tolerant Mr. H allows you. And don't think you've damaged yourself too much for us to still accept you. You remind me of Gollum, Leo, I'm not saying that to hurt you. Why all this anger deposited on our doorstep?

God, I sound like a Priest talking someone down from off a ledge.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 16:00:43 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Christmas come early: Tower Records yesterday, "Kind of Blue" reissuance cd on sale for $7.00 Life is good.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 15:54:19 ET
Posted by: Laina,

That's true, Rajah, it depends on *how* the arguing is done. If it's done in a respectful manner (somewhat like a debate) an exchange of opinions and supporting reasons can occur. Teasing and trading good-natured barbs are A-Okay. But, as you said, there are those "who cannot color within the lines of forensic argument." Such ones should be shot with tacks. Haha, oooonly kidding. The real disses are, *usually* unnecessary...unless they're actually true. And no comment on the flat & uninteresting booty!

Josey, yeah, I'm fond of that quote myself, lol.

Lainalove


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 15:22:56 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

I'm home sick today so I have nothing better to do than bother everybody even more than usual.

Laina baby, yeah you're right about arguing over the net but I think people who respect each other CAN do just that. Like if you and I were to argue about, let's say Don's voice, I think we could trade any number of barbs without getting personal or calling each other stupid and even that we could kinda do in a good natured way without hurt feelings. I personally love it when people yell at me, heck it happens all the time on a daily basis but what I will not brook is an undignified oaf who cannot color within the lines of forensic argument. And we do manage to do this a lot of the time around here. You know how it goes, somebody new comes on all jumped up and stuff, then slowly assimilates into this community and starts behaving like civilized person. And, hello, starts respecting people. This place is at its finest when we disagree sharply but maintain that collegial relationship. When you diss the other person you only end up dissing yourself and showing your very uninteresting flat ass. Hey, I gotta write that down and submit it to Hallmark. The Rajah is visionary...or maybe it's just the Nyquill.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 15:22:35 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Laina, that's killing me! I'm going to find a way to use that quote before the night's over.
Leo - it's frighteningly obvious that you're the smartest guy you've ever known.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 15:21:58 ET
Posted by: rcray, nyc

Thanks Rajah.

I will definitely be getting that on dvd-a as well as Dark Side of the Moon and American Beauty by the dead.

How is Kamakiriad and TVN?


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 15:17:09 ET
Posted by: bill, pgh

Better late than never, a Steely soundbite for this past weekend's news:

Asked at his news conference if he had a greeting of his own for Hussein, Bush replied: "I find it very interesting that when the heat got on, you dug yourself a hole, and you crawled in it" - GWB

"When Black Friday comes, I'm gonna dig myself a hole, gonna lay down in it till I satisfy my soul." B&F

[Very nearly "Fire in the Hole" if the news reports of troops ready to drop a grenade are true.]


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 14:57:44 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Hey Leo-Shaun The WebTV Dork,

Here I am writing a reply to Peter Q supporting your opinion and you come on slamming me. Thanks for demonstrating my point. You really are psycho.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 14:50:54 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Cray - Can't begin to tell you how bright and alive the DVD-A of Nightfly is. The mix on the speakers is very subtle, it's not anywhere near a total separation of anythng at anytime, say like Sgt Pepper which took that recording technique to a startling extreme, but certain tendancies are evident to me. What I hear in the back speakers is lots of incidental percussion, weird little horn farts here and there, gurgly synth and keyboard accents, and like, how can I describe it, side angles of Don's voice. This format to my ears really enhances the vocals more than anything. Donald is right there in the room with you and you can appreciate what a marvelously stylish singer he truly is. I've been critical sometimes about Donald's vocal instrument, especially live which is so hard, but I gotta give this man his props. He's so very active as a singer, he never stays anywhere that long, he's slippery, never tiresome. The man is not lazy ever. Leaves you wanting more. As a listener, the DVD-A format is right in your face and that permits you to listen even closer should you be so inclined. So you're closer to the performances.

You know the line in New Frontier, "she's wearing Ambush and a French twist"? I'm obsessed with it, it's like Donald takes a running start at it from down the hall, then flies right past you as you sit on the couch, through the living room and out the door. Incredible dynamics, it's like the guy is physically moving through the room at times.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 14:48:39 ET
Posted by: Laina, forgot one thing

Dearest Rajah, thank you kindly. Many nuzzles to you this fine morning.

Lainalove


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 14:46:53 ET
Posted by: Laina, over it

Leo, I can scroll, but your garbage postings would still be here. You really don't care about the copyright issues here, you just feel like effing with someone. Don't front like you actually care.

I'm done with this, because, as a wise man once said, "Arguing on the 'net is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win...you're still retarded."

Keep running for that gold medal, Leo.

Laina


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 13:57:59 ET
Posted by: Joe Friday, LAPD

Do Chicago Police still have checkers on the hats?

Joe


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 13:50:04 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Bravo Hoops.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 13:48:40 ET
Posted by: rcray, nyc

saw on the steely website that they won an award for emg as a surround release.

I don't have surround sound yet...but I did buy the dvd-a version so hopefully after the holidays I will have it set up.

Any personal observations about the EMG/KAMA/Nightfly surround versions?

Also, what instruments do they usually put in the rear speakers?


Thanks in advance.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 13:12:12 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Leo/Sean/Web TV Dork;

Just spent the past 40 minutes on the phone with WebTV secuirity about you.

I often agree with the positions you post here, but in posting your views you handle yourself like a complete asshole. I'd come to your defense as I often agree with you but instead you complicate matters ten times. You make people who agree with you want to side with others simply because of the asshole-way you post and respond to people. You positions themselves are often right on--there are times when others post completely dumb-ass shit. And then you post a response which is pretty right on but so fucked up in attitude that you piss everyone off so much to the point we pretty much have to take sides with those who post the original dumb-ass shit. How fucked up can you get, Leo? How can you be such a nut?

This past weekend and a few before that, I've stayed away from this place because I don't want to have my weekend ruined by YOUR fucking rudeness everyt time you post. You act like you own this place. I work my ass off behind the scenes on this place--the electronic equivalent my home--and you come in here as guest and behave how you ever please with complete disregard for me or any body. I've commented to you about this in the past here and you don't even respond. I have a response on this copyright thing with Peter Q as well; but I want to get this out of the way first.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 12:50:19 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Laina love, righteous indignation sure looks good on you. Testify, my sister.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 12:16:17 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Laina- SCROLL!


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 11:17:03 ET
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ / USA


The resounding tradition of holiday music continues at my house; to wit:

"Father Christmas / give us some money / we've got no time for your silly toys / beat you up / if you don't hand it over..."

- The Kinks, 'Father Christmas'

Randy / NIGHTFLY62(at)aol.com


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 10:02:06 ET
Posted by: Laina, up too early (or is it up too late?)

Leo, quit riding PQ's arse. Take this rubbish to email or something, where you can take all the little swipes at him that your heart desires, w/o uninvolved parties reading along.

Just not in the mood for the bullisht today.

Laina


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 09:41:30 ET
Posted by: Bill, Pittsburgh

Doesn't Donald sport something like this on the back cover of Katy Lied? I'm at work and don't have the LP handy to verify.

>Can you picture it? Both of them in those fetching antler sweaters ...

Michael McDonald is sitting in with Paul Shaffer's band on Letterman tonight.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 09:41:26 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" My Joey - if there was ever anyone who should disagree with the Rajneesh, kapeesh, it's vou. So let's prove that nuzzlers can also disagree. "

My Rajah ...............I STILL want to nuzzle you today .

" I will now recede into monastic contemplation of my irrelevancy. "

You make Joey giggle .


Just listened to Kamakiriad in its entirety this morning . About the time of " Florida Room " I finally realized that I am the one who is Irrelevant .

Receding .................................................

Contemplating ............................................

Developing ...............................................


Jacky Carribee!


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 08:28:25 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Peter Q- "All over the web"? Give us some links/proof. Show us two sites where that picture is being used with no photo credit. I don't thnk so.

Stevedan- Whatever.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 04:50:22 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Pete has of course been credited. And he, as well as you legal scholars here, should know that that picture is all over the web without a credit, which is why my team couldn't credit him in the first place - we didn't know it was his picture.


Date: Tues, December 16, 2003, 01:40:04 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, From the place where cooler heads prevail ...

Leo - After watching the back and forth, I wonder what is the bigger issue: Whether Metheny wanted more money, or whether you don't like being challenged.

Money could have been a factor in Pat's decision to turn down the Steely Dan gig. As has been said here before, and not only by Peter Q, Metheny's success was already in high gear, and his artistic pursuits were already far beyond what would be called upon to be a side man.

I would have loved to see Metheny with Steely Dan. Especially if he were to take the music in a different direction when it was his time to play solos.

Comparing a musician as intelligent and talented ... and consistently ground breaking as Metheny ... to an athlete ... ANY athlete ... is bunk.

Perhaps it's time to drop the issue (on somebody's head !).


SteveeDan


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 22:44:18 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu,

Raj: Is that when you see a hot chick in a red sports car?

OK, the BIG question is just HOW did Walter and Becker supe up their sound from the Sun Mountain Daze to Steely Dan? Was it Sonics of Mass Construction? Was it that something buried in Walter's backyard?

If Gary Katz only booked musicians and sent for take out, how did the metamorphosis occur?...I mean they went from Saddam Hussain yesterday to George Hamilton Jr. 30 years ago...from Weird Al to Stevie Wonder...just HOW did they go from the Bad jazz band Chevy Chase once knew to the aural tour de force of jazz and rock known as Steely Dan? theories? Skunk? The Immortal? Steamer Heaven?

...no. Matthew Sweet or whatever his name is' book does not count as a citing...


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 22:28:34 ET
Posted by: Tomorrow's Girl, still listening to emg

Safer here?


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 22:24:14 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

As it should be. Let's see you out here, it's safer.

My Joey - if there was ever anyone who should disagree with the Rajneesh, kapeesh, it's vou. So let's prove that nuzzlers can also disagree.

Irrelevant? Is that what you're calling me, Joe, irrelevant? Irrelevant, what, like a clown? Like a clown is irrelevant? Huh? Like a clown?

Well, yeah, you are sooo right. I will now recede into monastic contemplation of my irrelevancy.

OK, I'm done.


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 22:06:18 ET
Posted by: Tomorrow's Girl, listening to emg

Lonesome in the Green Room tonite.


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 20:35:28 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" Quite so, Duh, which only goes to underscore the absurdity of it all to begin with. The Courts are jammed with this BS "

Irrelevance is a crime worse than absurdity .

My Point ?!?! Not sure yet --- need to clear my head for a couple of hours by listening to " Snowbound " and many other tracks off of Donald's solo works .

Will Report back here later .

Developing .........................


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 20:17:05 ET
Posted by: chai_latte, Home - trying to stay awake

Gretchen, my part of NJ is also black ice and crusty white leftover snow piles.
I've been listening to my favorite holiday CD at work: John (meet me at Foxwood's) Pizzarelli's "Let's Share Christmas". In addition to some Swing versions of old classics, Let It Snow, Let It Snow, John penned a couple of his own tunes. Think my fellow danfans would appreciate the lyrics of "Santa Claus is Near".


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 20:01:27 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, An icy hilltop in Waterbury

Pam, you're too damn funny. I'll trade you that soggy mud puddle for my black ice. Tonight I'm listening to Mingus Ah Um, Robin Trower's Bridge of Sighs, and The Charlie Hunter Trio. Gaucho is looking good for the drive to work tomorrow.
G


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 19:19:47 ET
Posted by: Pam, a soggy mud puddle in NJ

I'm listening to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" soundtrack, and thinking how Dan-ian the Peanuts are, especially Snoopy! I wonder what music is decking everyone else's halls this season....

Pam


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 18:07:06 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Laina - I have no idea what it is with those two, it's like oil and water, my guess is it's an old grudge. Leo's rhetoric lately has been getting a little better, though, so who knows, maybe the Holidays will work their healing magic.

Don't bet the sleigh on it, though.

Hey, there's another SD Xmas song to go with Charlie Freak: Jack of Speed. (the sleighbells, remember) Add Snowbound and you have half the makings of a "Don & Walter's Christmas Special." Like Andy Williams, Johnny Mathis, Perry Como, our boys would be SUPER on a big NBC Special. Can you picture it? Both of them in those fetching antler sweaters, throwing fake snow balls at each other, building a snowman, riding in the sleigh with Carolyn and Callie, scarves and winter hats. And they'd be singing: "Santa Got Busted With a Bag of Blow This Xmas Eve"

Very Christmasy.


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 17:14:05 ET
Posted by: Laina,

Leo, what *is* it with you and Peter Q? Not to get into the middle of whatever quarrel you have w/ him, but your posts are starting to remind me of a little Yorkshire terrier nipping at PQ's ankles. It's not cute.

Hey Pete F.!! Nice to see ya 'round here. I'm lookin' forward to seeing the new, updated site.

Lainalove


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 15:34:32 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, The land of ice and snow

Pete F: Miss your website! Looking forward to more pics soon. Good luck with the new provider.
G


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 15:29:54 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Pete F. - Are you sure you want your picture associated with that crap Peter Q is using it for? I mean...if I was you, I'd tell him to take it down. Your pictures deserve better!


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 15:14:49 ET
Posted by: Pete,

The photo in question on Peter Q's site is one that I took at the Today Show in 2000. I don't mind people using my pictures, but "duh" is right... the proper thing to do is provide photo credit.

My ASAN Steely Dan site is down because my provider went out of business. I hope to have a page up soon with more new pictures including 2003 tour shots.

Pete Fogel


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 13:58:39 ET
Posted by: duh-, oh

...which was Fool's original point:

a simple credit line is appropriate, prudent, and polite.

double-duh.



Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 13:01:58 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Quite so, Duh, which only goes to underscore the absurdity of it all to begin with. The Courts are jammed with this BS.


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 12:58:35 ET
Posted by: duh, -oh

OR...... you could credit the photogrpaher or originating site in tiny print somewhere on the webpage.


sheesh.


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 12:36:56 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

So you get your TRO and follow up with an Injunctive Relief action. The picture is removed and, depending on where you care to bring the action, for example, in NY or CA, you could conceivably stretch the thing out but more than likely you'd make an appearance at the Ex Parte hearing and then an evidentiary hearing of some sort before the Permanent Restraining Order is issued. In most other states who practice more of a frontier type of justice, e.g., Montana, Arizona, New Mexico, Ohio, Texas, Utah, you probably wouldn't even get that far. Most states also require a showing that you requested that the party cease and desist and that he/she declined to do so. Then the chances of something like this actually coming on before a Judge or Jury are about as good as Don & Walt releasing a Xmas album of cover tunes. So you've drafted your Ex Parte, TRO and Complaint for Injunctive Relief; you attend two hearings and submit a Proposed Order. That's about $3,000.00 to $5,000.00 for the fanciest of Century City or Park Avenue attorneys. And it's is no sure thing you can get a Judge to grant you your fees, especially if the restrained party removes the image upon request, cooperates with all Court Orders in a timely fashion and comports himself well.

Or you can try to bring it in Federal Court in the Southern District of New York or Central District of California and see if you get your fees from a Federal Judge, good luck.

Talk about terrorism.


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 11:53:28 ET
Posted by: Larry H. Parker, I'll get you $ 7.2 million

There may be a right to "nomimal damages" and injunctive relief combined with an award to the plaintiff for attorneys' fees to prosecute the infringement. Therefore, a lawyer might take the case to vindicate Don's rights while having the infringer pay for the whole thing.


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 04:08:09 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China


Phillipe from France....thanks for the heads up on the Metheny DVD of Secret Story. I've seen it in stores but did not realize it was a concert. When my amp is fixed (some fool, moi, authored his own audio destruction) it will be purchased and duly enjoyed.

Rajah...overdue Sinatra answer. The DVD I mentioned to you a week or more ago is indeed part of a set of ten. I think they are about an hour each..and the trailer says it's stuff from the 60s, 70s, and 80s. I think it's Warner stuff.


Date: Mon, December 15, 2003, 01:22:57 ET
Posted by: Javier Moreno, Trinidad & Tobago, CA

It's funny, Jann never asked me which ones were my favorite records of all time. The RS issue is pretty interesting and it's definetly a collector's item. Dan is there of course with Pretzel Logic and Aja - I think Can't Buy A Thrill is there, too...-. However, being the World globalized as it is now, there are a lot of outstanding records that never made any list like this because they never reached the american market or, well, they were made on the far sides of the world. My list of the greatest records ever made? Ok, I have two in amazon.com. Enjoy!

My favorite albums: or albums you must have in order to understand... me:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/309IBOXNHC39K/emiliocacao

My most influential albums of my timeline: 1973 - 2001:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/F1A1UDBEQIWU/emiliocacao


Date: Sun, December 14, 2003, 19:53:15 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, Snowbird

Walter, I don't know much about Hawaii. Please enlighten me, on which island of paradise would a mortgage broker be most able to find employment? I'm afraid these nor'easters are wreaking havoc with my psyche. It's bad karma, and my vinyassas are not aligned properly.

97 days until Spring......

G

P.S. Did anyone find similarity between today's pics of Saddam and Aqualung? Yikes!


Date: Sun, December 14, 2003, 18:56:30 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Jaydee - you are the future. I follow you.


Date: Sun, December 14, 2003, 18:24:32 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Legal - I don't disagree with anything you're saying at all. I don't even know where the photo came from, and my webmaster assured me everything is in the public domain. If it isn't, it will come off. If there is a copyright issue, of course it will come off the page. Not crediting the photographer is simply an oversight, and when I get in touch with the webmaster I will raise all these points.


That page is a very rough draft. I didn't mean to be speaking pompously, and I'm sure you didn't mean to fly off the handle with terms like "bozo" and "pompous ass."


Date: Sun, December 14, 2003, 18:17:21 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

Rajah, the voice of reason, as ever.

Anyone know a good site to tell me how 'bit-torrent' works? I've just spent a frustrating weekend trying to work it out, being pretty techno-illiterate!


Date: Sun, December 14, 2003, 17:57:24 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Hey you legal guys - I doubt nothing in your statements but, and I'm not trying to be an A-hole here truly, what kind of damages, let's say as an hypothetical, are caused by a pic of Don we've seen forevah?


Date: Sun, December 14, 2003, 17:40:35 ET
Posted by: your legal team, attention bozo

From one of several hundred copyright law sites online: (find your own sources):

Q: The Internet is public domain, so isn't everything fair game?

 A:    No. The copyright laws that apply to written material, photographs, and a myriad of other items apply on the Internet too. You cannot just take and use what ever you feel like.

 ====
bottom line: Don't be a pompous ass (more than you already are, that is).. Even if not legally dictated - by no means assumed in this case - it is common courtesy at the very least to put a byline on someone else's photo.


Date: Sun, December 14, 2003, 17:29:09 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Thank you Raj.


Only a Fool - my legal team believes all the pictures there are in the public domain, but if you feel or know otherwise please email me rather than posting here so we don't bore everyone with legal minutiae.


Date: Sun, December 14, 2003, 17:22:45 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Q - So far, this is the passage that made me spit tea up my nose: "She lifted her dress up a little and scratched her ass as if I wasn’t there at all. 'I talked it over with my husband and he said to go for it'." Inspirationally lurid.

"En mi countri, dey keeel you asz dead" is also an instant classic.

That and auto-erections. Q U crazy.


Date: Sun, December 14, 2003, 16:34:48 ET
Posted by: only a fool..., .

Peter - certainly it was just in your excitement that you failed to credit the photograph, right?


Date: Sun, December 14, 2003, 15:54:51 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

A small sampling of our graphics and text are now up at WWW.DANFANNOVEL.COM! Small 20 page samples are available, please email.


Date: Sun, December 14, 2003, 15:44:38 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

JJ - there are points, both positive and negative, being made here daily. Leo's current incarnation seems to be a cross between Don Rumsfeld and Don Rickles. And distracting us from the salient Don.


Date: Sun, December 14, 2003, 11:56:07 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Leo, not sure exactly how my back to back posts were contradicting, since my intent was not to relate them to each other, but it flatters me to know I can help you make points. Thanks!


Date: Sun, December 14, 2003, 11:24:17 ET
Posted by: sdlegal, sheesh

Advise everyone to calm down on the detailed published instructions, here and on the newsgroup, on how to access bootlegs. As you well know there are more discrete methods to distribute this stuff and everyone should definitely return to those methods -- if not out of respect for the artists then out of common sense for one's own well-being. The official website might be on hiatus but legal doesn't hibernate


Date: Sat, December 13, 2003, 16:01:59 ET
Posted by: W1P, Philly

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Date: Sat, December 13, 2003, 14:42:44 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

By the way, is there something wrong with wanting more money? I'd love to have a lot more money. More money would've taken me to Hawaii for the last two Dan shows.


Date: Sat, December 13, 2003, 14:08:56 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Perhaps it's just as simple as Metheny didn't want the gig. He may have just been more interested in continuing with his own music.


Date: Sat, December 13, 2003, 13:47:57 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Lutz- Metheney not needing the money by 1993 means nothing. Most people are greedy and always want more. What makes you think Metheny is any different? Because he's a musician? Professional ball players who are a lot richer than Metheney turn down offers all the time because they want more money. Right now Gary Sheffield (who has a lot more money then Pat) is turning down millions of dollars from the New York Yankees. The Yankees are the greatest franchise in the history of sports. Every baseball player wants to play for the Yankees. Just like almost any guitar player would want to play with Steely Dan. Sheffield doesn't need the money, he has millions! Why is he holding out for more money? He surly doesn't need it...just like Pat. I don't think your analogy holds any water.


Date: Sat, December 13, 2003, 12:42:28 ET
Posted by: Lutz, SF

It’s official: No Steely Dan European tour next year. Carlock is now with Sting and the boys would not have let him go him if there were plans for 2004. Although there was no tour in 2002 they hired him for the whole year flat out.
JayDee thanks for pointing out the more interesting aspects in Sting’s music. He’s slick about the time signatures and Vinnie Colaiuta certainly shines, although he plays only on a couple of tracks. Kids now like Sting, what are the alternatives for them? Eminim or Punk daddy. Sting might even get some younger folks interested in music played with instruments.
As far as Metheny goes, over the last 25 years he has always done his own stuff and by 93 he was already well off, the money issue seems ridiculous. His trio is unbelievable, check out the live cd.


Date: Sat, December 13, 2003, 11:27:27 ET
Posted by: Mitch, Omaha

I haven't been on here for a while and have read back a few posts and I am not really sure what the big controversy is about Methaney and The Dan. The way it sounds to me, Pat enjoyed playing a few gigs with Fagen and loves the music...but not enough to do a big tour. He even said in the snippet from his website that he thought it might get old after a few nights...and I can totally understand that. He has his own stuff to do. This is no dis' on the Dan or anything.

Just my thoughts.

As far as Sting goes...I think he did the world a disservice by including Mary J. Blige on his stuff. Talk about overrated.


Date: Sat, December 13, 2003, 00:10:06 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, Concert For George

A friend of mine brought over the DVD of a "Concert For George", the George Harrison tribute concert filmed last year at The Royal Albert Hall. The concert and DVD are simply jaw-dropping! Perhaps the best concert film ever made! It was filmed with 12 cameras in High Definition and Jeff Lynne supervised the sound mix. The performances by Eric Clapton, Tom Petty, Paul McCartney and Billy Preston are outstanding. Also in the band are Steely Dan vets Jim Keltner (Josie) on drums and Tom Scott (Black Cow) on tenor sax. The concert is extremely moving without being sentimental. George's son Dhani is on stage the entire show and is the spitting image of George during the Cavern Club days. You can't take your eyes off him. Go out and buy this DVD today! You will not regret it!!!

Mark in Boston


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 23:59:34 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Dear Dandom;

The latest Dandom Digest covering December 6-12 has just been emailed. Subscribers not receiving the Dandom Digest in the next 12 hours, should please email me. To remind you het again, there have been a lot of issues connected with SPAM blockers and firewalls blocking delivery so please let me know if you have problems.

If you want to be a subscriber, please check out http://www.danndom.com/dandomdigest

In this Dandom Digest dated December 6-12, 2003 are the following subjects:

- A little late, but what the hell: 500? 50? (Rolling Stone leaves EMG off top 50 albums of 2003)
- "Gaucho" DVD-Audio Update
- Rare tracks (1968-71 Demos)
- What is this?(1968-71 Demos)
- rareities (1968-71 Demos)
- Re: What is this?, Re: rareties (1968-71 Demos)
- SD Lyrics & Sex
- 'SLANG ME' DEPT: "Spanish kissing"
- Re: 'SLANG ME' DEPT: "Spanish kissing"
- [ Two Degrees of "Things I Miss the Most" ]
- RERUN: EMG, SD Cleans Up with *70* Danny Award Nominations
- RERUN: Complete Listing of SD-related Danny Award Nominations

Thanks as always.

jim


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 18:33:01 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

RCray - I love how you get to the point. More of the same.

Jaydee- you know what it is about Carlock mit der Schtingle? It's like watching your girlfriend dance with some other guy, it's OK and all, but irksome nonetheless. Sting playing that half-pint acoustic guitar was amusing. He's turned into somebody I don't even know anymore.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 16:41:06 ET
Posted by: rcray, nyu

i am in the green


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 16:07:40 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Work is done.........Anyone in the Green?


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 15:02:13 ET
Posted by: Laina, finals are OVERRRRR

Like Cheri Oteri used to say...."Simmah down now!"

I saw Carlock on Leno last night..not too much, since the camera was focused more on the singer and not the drummer, but it was nice to see and hear the man at work again.

PQ, I haven't seen this novel of yours yet. I'll have to go to your website for it.

Lainalove


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 14:56:59 ET
Posted by: rcray, brooklyn

My only gripe with Metheny is when he has singers on his albums that do that "howling" shit.

His zero tolerance for silence is probably the worst album in the history of music. I would rather hear fagen piss in a bucket for an hour.

Otherwise he rocks.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 14:47:01 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

The 700 page novel at WWW.DANFANNOVEL.COM will be incrementally introduced at the rate of one chapter per month for eighteen months. Each chapter is approximately 40 pages. The site will be supplemented with audio samples of the Meal Reviewer radio talk show and artwork by some of the web's finest artists.

20 pages samples will be emailed out this weekend. We are overwhelmed with requests so please be patient.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 14:38:07 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

Re Sting - Carlock wasted with him, Rajah? No way - I'm sure he'll whip and flay along with those great tunes to perfection. 5/8, 7/8, 11/8 - no problem, and he'll enjoy every minute of it (and top dollar pay). I'll report back in May.

Re Metheny - surely the weirdest thing is his quote "one guitar is usually one too many". As for not doing the Dan tour - I'm sure it was down to a variety of factors.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 14:05:02 ET
Posted by: Lurker,

Leo- I would like you to email me some pages from your Dan Fan Novel. Your novel sounds as stupid as Peter Q's.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 14:02:50 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Was that GE Smith on guitar with Sting last night? Mary Blige certainly helped the song. Carlock is wasted with Sting. But his style is becoming so characteristic. You can tell who's playing when you see that whipping, flayling action going on.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 13:46:14 ET
Posted by: Lurker,

As Boston Rag pointed out, Sting performed (with Carlock in his band) last night (Thursday). Sorry if you missed it. Sting is being honored by Musicares which is tied to the Grammys events typically. I bet Keith will be performing there. Midler started her tour in Chi-town last night. Hoops, any word if Herington was with her band?


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 13:39:50 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Pardon the interruption in this spirited and amusing discussion, but Carlock will be on Jay Leno tonight. Now, let's get back to the action between Leo and Peter.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 12:39:12 ET
Posted by: Leo, Who the fuck is Shaun?

Peter Q- First of all... it was The Lonestar Roadhouse. Second, it wasn't "the bouncer" and third why are you wasting your time with me? Don't you have DANFANNOVELDOTCOM to finish?


I'm writing my own DANFANNOVEL...Here is a clip

So bunny jumped in her car and pointed it down 7th ave. Bob said "hey Bunny, rap twice with your cane" Bunny loved Bob. But Bob was stuck in Vegas with a handle in his hand. The Razor Boy had to come and get Bob's fancy...things away.

If anyone else wants some pages from my DANFANNOVEL just let me know and I'll email it to you.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 11:59:19 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Peter and Leo - I'm enjoying your banter very much, guys. We're making progress. Seriously now, it's fun.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 11:37:13 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Shaun , I mean Leo, just back up your claims with proof or cite some evidence, not third hand hearsay from the bouncer at the Lone Star Cafe. It is astonishing information and we would all like to know about it, it is an important part of Steely Dan history - the organization of the reunion tour. Share your knowledge and scholarly research with us, please Shaun I mean Leo.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 11:28:48 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Peter Q- I'm not here to make you happy.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 11:27:25 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Doesn't this kind of amount to the fact that you're publicly accusing him of lying? Don't forget, in spite of your cowardice here Leo, I have your email address.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 11:20:31 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

And the links?


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 11:14:31 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Peter Q- If you read what I wrote, I said the money thing was something I heard from a friend. You can't find what I heard on the net because Mr. Metheney would never admit to it in print. What I did find on the net was different excuses from more than one interview. So with that said, my question is...What was the real reason Pat Metheny didn't want to tour with SD?

a) "I didn't want to be the third guitarist"

b) "Drew Zingg is so great they don't need me"

c) "I'm not into recreating the solos from records live".

d) "At the time SD asked me to tour I already had a European gigs booked which would have been hard for me to get out of"

e) NOT ENOUGH MONEY

Peter Q- Were you at both of the shows Pat played with Fagen at the Lonestar? I was. The info I got was from someone who was working those shows. The same person that got me into both of those shows. And guess what? I believe him!

And as far as what Herington's bio said....that was Jon's choice to "play it like the record" It's been stated many times in many different interviews that Becker and Fagen discouraged the tour guitar players from playing it "like the record". Drew Zingg once said that Donald and Walter totally discouraged him from playing it "like the record". He said they were adamant about it. After seeing all the tours it seems that the horn section understood what D&W wanted. Wayne Krantz was the only guitarist that seemed to listened to them.

So you see Peter Q ....the above information is fact. It wasn't written in some stupid novel.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 10:24:35 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Still Sparkin, I've had "Secret Story" in my car cd player for the last two weeks along with EMG and a John Patitucci cd. Love "Secret Story"!


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 09:55:23 ET
Posted by: Rcray, nyu

Is this the Pat Metheny forum?

I have WORKS, WE LIVE HERE, TRAVELS and a live one Pat Meth Trio 99.

I love his work and saw him live a few years back. You definitely need to be in the mood for his schtick.

I will say Cross the Heartland is one of the most amazing songs ever composed.

Later.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 07:56:13 ET
Posted by: C,

Ahhh, Frances!

You have a beautiful name!

*SIGH*


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 06:28:20 ET
Posted by: Philippe, France

Still sparkin', or Chris, I definitely agree with you, "Secret story" is a jewel. Some of the songs, especially the three last on the album
make you feel your life is a movie when you listen to them, I wish I was a native american speaking to express it better but those songs have the power of expanding the moments you're leaving when you listen to them and no, I didn't smoke the carpet as we say in France !
If you want to wish yourself a merry Christmas let me recommend you to buy the DVD version, it's the recording of a beautiful concert Pat did in Connecticut if I remember well just after the release of "Secret story". BTW, if anyone has a recording of a Lyle Mays concert at the time of "Street dreams", I'm interested.
Philippe


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 06:26:08 ET
Posted by: ps,

LOL yeah right, bitten by the doc Mu habit now ...
Little Shop of HorrorS ofcourse :-)


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 06:24:15 ET
Posted by: Gina, Super Sundrive Mountain

haven't checked in here (or anywhere for that matter) in ages and only read some posts, so might be possible someone already mentioned Joni Mitchell's DVD Shadows & Light which shows her and Pastorius, Mays, Metheny, Brecker and others in superb condition and clear vivid images of a time or maybe an era caught on disc and i wish i could say celluloid for the obvious reasons. i highly value modern means of techniques to either preserve or maintain or improve anything worth saving for future generations and lets not forget, to indulge our own needs for quality in music etc. so the Shadows & Light DVD is something to be cherished, although it doesn't beat the memories of listening to the vinyl album over the years. that was a complete different feel or twist in the membranes :-)
as the kingsize cactus in the cultmovie The Little Shops Of Horror says ...
"feed me, feed me" ....
A Banyan Tree Bow in Blue,
G.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 05:12:47 ET
Posted by: still sparkin', china

Josey...surprised I've never heard you mention Metheny's Secret Story.Granted he's done a lot and it would be easy to overlook certain recordings...but I thought Secret Story was unified and somehow more than a collection of good songs.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 03:57:01 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

On the SD offical site, in Herington's bio, it says he "often evokes the melodic and rhythmic heart of cherished recorded versions." Hmm. Certainly sounds to me like they are at least partially interested in recreating the original versions.

Leo - please give us all the links on these "excuses" because nobody seriously beleves Pat Metheny would let money stop him from doing a gig he wanted to do. He was already a huge superstar when he did trio gigs with Charlie Haden and Billy Higgins, for which I'm sure he didn't get paid anywhere near what Steely Dan would pay him, so please post the links here so we can all share in the benefits of your voluminous research. Thanks!


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 01:51:52 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

From the Metheny site's Q and A Page (well, he does mention "the fee" !):


User: Mark Southern
Date: Mar 24 1999
Subject: The real scoop on Steely Dan
Question: You might have noticed that a lot of us Metheniacs are also hard-core Steely Dan fans. I read here that you played with Fagen and/or Becker at a club in New York, that you've talked to them about a recording project, etc. What's the real scoop? Inquiring minds want to know!
Pat's Answer: hi mark,
that was really fun - i did a few unannounced gigs with donald fagan around new york a few years ago - this was before the steely dan reunion. one day, i was listening to the radio, and the dj said that they were going to reunite to do a tour, they listed all the musicians and that i was the guitar player! i hadn't talked to anyone about it! well, i was shocked, a little bit pissed, but mostly flattered, but i was touring with joshua redman and my own band around that time. then walter becker called me a few times about doing it, tracking me down on the road in europe and they called my office to talk about a fee for the tour, etc. it was all kind of weird, but after all of this hoopla i thought that maybe i might like to do it because it had been so much fun playing those dan songs (which i love) with donald. but when i talked to walter, i realized that if i did it, there would be three guitar players in the band. i am sort of of the "one guitar is usually one too many anyway" school, let alone three. so, it just kind of got dropped and i didn't have to change things or cancel gigs or anything which would have been a drag for me anyway - actually i don't think i could have done that. i did go to see them one night on the tour; drew zing was playing so great - he, along with the songs themselves, was the best part of the whole show. i realized that i would not really have been that comfortable doing it for more than a few nights anyway, it really was like a greatest hits of the 70's kind of thing - it seemed like they wanted it to sound as much as possible like the record versions which would have been difficult for me to feel good about doing, so it worked out best that i didn't do it. i still love listening to those records though - the "nightfly" is probably my favorite. esp igy.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 01:23:54 ET
Posted by: Leo,

If you research it on the net, you will find more than a few interviews where Metheney is giving bunch of different excuses on why he didn't want to tour with Steely Dan. I still personally believe what I originally heard back in 1993. It was all about the $.

Oh yeah...the comment that Pat made about having to play the solos live just like the records is as we all know, a bunch of crap. Someone should tell Pat to listen to a tape from when Wayne Krantz played with SD in 1996. Very rarely did Krantz play it like the record. I didn't care much for him myself.


Date: Fri, December 12, 2003, 00:37:52 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag, KC on Tonight Show

Mr. Carlock was pounding the skins for Sting on the Tonight Show this evening. West cost folks can catch it in a few hours.


Mark in Boston


Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 23:17:20 ET
Posted by: W1P, 101 South to LA

yeats, the stage at SoHO barely fits the five members of Which One's Pink? -- Pretzel Logic would have to put the horn section and vocalists out on the patio!


Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 20:06:59 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" He also said he thought they were trying to duplicate their records on stage, which in my opinion has rarely been the case with a few exceptions (Third World Man comes to mind). "

A few others come to mind :

" Don't Take Me Alive "

" The Royal Scam "

" My Old School "

" Peg "







Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 19:44:28 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Actually on November 4th at 18:39:21 Jaco posted here on the Blue some excepts from an email he got from Pat Metheny in which, to paraphrase, Pat said he did not feel comfortable doing a 70s greatest hits show the goal of which was to sound as much like the original recordings as possible.


Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 18:51:11 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Bill- I've read that about Pat saying there were two many axe players in Steely Dan for him to take the third spot. I heard from some people close to Matheney that wasn't really the case. It was all about the money. Not enough of it. Believe what you may....but that was the real reason for him not taking the gig.


Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 17:10:52 ET
Posted by: Bill, Pittsburgh

I saw Lyle Mays touring behind that CD when it came out with Peter Erskine on drums and an upright bassist whose name escapes me at the moment. Great show. At one point Mays and Erskine did a "drum duel" with Mays supplying sampled drums on the keyboards.

I also first encountered Metheny and Mays in 1979 as they were promoting the classic "Pat Metheny Group" album and they knocked my socks off. The group was still a quartet at that point.

I believe Metheny was distressed to hear reports on the radio of him being tapped to tour with SD before anyone had even formally asked him. He would have shared duties with Walter and Drew Zingg and thought three guitars was too many. He also said he thought they were trying to duplicate their records on stage, which in my opinion has rarely been the case with a few exceptions (Third World Man comes to mind).

Check out his collaboration with John Scofield, I Can See Your House From Here.


Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 16:01:03 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

Josey - Thanks, I'll certainly check those out, as I'm sure I'm a potential Metheny convert. After playing 'Are You Going With Me' last night I've had it in my head all day!

Also noticed on the PM website, in a 'favourite song' thread, that lots go for 'First Circle' - apparently you can clap along to it in 22/8 time!


Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 13:24:30 ET
Posted by: Philippe from Pau, France,

Bonsoir tout le monde, just a small story about Pat Metheny, a few years ago, I would say it was the summer of 1987, the Pat Metheny group released an album called "Still life talking". I bought it but didn't listen to it at that time as I was leaving a few days after for a two weeks holidays on a sailboat around the Corse island. There, one morning, as we were staying in a beautiful, isolated little cove, I woke up with the sun, found a comfortable place on the boat, outside , faced the sunset , put the headphones on my ears and pressed the start button. It was 16 years ago and when I listen to that cd again I feel like I'm still in that place. Try the experience, I wish it will work with you too.
Another thing with Pat Metheny is how beautiful are the titles of his songs: "Cathedral in a suitcase", "In her family", "Last train home"... Try to imagine better titles for these songs, I couldn't.
One last thing, some of you mentionned Lyle Mays, you should listen to "Street dreams" , a cd he released some 10 years ago, perfect soundtrack for a snowy night in N.Y, although I never spent a snowy night in N.Y ! It even has a Steely Dan connection, Peter Erskine playing on it.
If I don't post again before Christmas, let me be the first to wish you all a "Joyeux Noël"
Philippe Poudensan


Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 12:36:05 ET
Posted by: Pilgrim, sol

Laina-yep, it's been a while-and yep it's Flip Fantasia/Cantaloop-Herbie Hancock's Canteloupe Island sample on that one....the whole CD is pretty good stuff IMO...lot's of Blakey, some Rollins and Monk too and Horace Silver(he was a recent topic of discussion here I believe..)

Peter Q-no e-mail outage right now so please foward a sample of the novel to the above address please....merci

Pil


Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 12:22:30 ET
Posted by: Laina,

Yeats, I haven't heard anything else from US3 aside from the one single they had out--"Flip Fantasia" or something like that? If I don't remember the title...sue me, it's been like 10 years, hasn't it? :P

Lainalove


Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 12:18:24 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

SteveeBaby - see you tonight. Bring your groove.


Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 11:56:31 ET
Posted by: yeats, sitting by the fire

Hey Pretzel Logic-would you get yer buts up north a few hours? SoHo in S.B. would be a perfect venue...


OK, gonna open a can...with all the jazz talkin goin on (sorry maybe this isn't very SD related)..what do you all think of US3? It's spinnin in my car, and I was curious what the masses thought...personally I liked their nuance at the time it came out and poppin it in the player now and then is refreshing...some may think all the samples are controversial/just plain bad juju, but I always look at that sort of thing as a compliment....

-Pilgrim


Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 11:11:47 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Jaydee - if I had to suggest two Metheny cd's - the first would be his latest with PMG called "Speaking of Now" - second would be a live album called "The Road To You". In particular, there's a tune called "First Circle" which is simply astonishing! You may already know the tune.


Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 07:47:08 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

PQ - thanks for that link. Interesting stuff.


Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 04:07:03 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

SteveeDan - being a Big Mama Thornton fan, I know all about Paul Griffin's keyboard work.

Jaydee - yes, he did turn it down. If I'm not mistaken he has an essay about it on his site.


Date: Thurs, December 11, 2003, 02:07:13 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

Re Metheny - I wasn't suggesting earlier that I would ONLY listen to PM as background music, just that it's not impossible (for me) to do so. However, I must admit that I still don't really get the Metheny thing.

I only have 'Works', 'Travels' and 'We Live Here', and find them all something of a 'curate's egg' (do you have that idiom in US?). Many sublime moments (Farmer's Trust springs to mind), but that piercing guitar-synth sound, and those off-pitch Nana Vasconcelos vocals do nothing for me. Agree Lyle Mays is tremendous, though. Incidentally, did PM really turn down the 93 Dan tour gig, as I've read somewhere?

Re Carlock - yes, it prob was him, as he's been on Sting's recent UK TV appearances (though last week's Top of the Pops was with Vinnie).


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 23:33:31 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, At Large

WuDuF - Thank you for that nice compliment. I really appreciate it.

Peter Q. - there's also Mark Knofler and Paul Griffin. Griffin was a piano player who was used extensively as a session guy in the '60s and the '70s. He was on Bacharach, Bob Dylan, and many pop artists records. He also was credited with one third of the songwriting credit on The Fez.

I would classify Steely Dan as jazz-rock, not smooth jazz.
Bodhisattva was a rock song based on a traditional 12-bar blues with that strange part in the middle. Chain Lightning is a 12-bar blues with harmonic substitutions.

They were certainly putting out primarily rock music up through The Royal Scam. Aja is where they began their shift toward jazz.

Today, I think of their music as sophisticated music on a Rhythm & Blues undercarriage. It's got more rock punch than modern jazz has.

Rajah - we're on tomorrow night at Mark's. See you there Braj.


SteveeDan


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 22:46:06 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, Listenin' to Miles' 58 sessions

Tonight I did not watch the Billbored awards, nor the Trista and Ryan wedding. I was pleasantly surprised at "Author!Author!" which was run on the Fox Movie Channel. It featured Tuesday Weld as Al Pacino's ex wife, had a scene with Pacino and Dyan Canon in the Roseland Ballroom, and a later scene with an Eames chair. The closing tune was done by Michael Franks. Of course, it took place in Manhattan. Very Steely. If you haven't seen it, give it a try. A nice change of pace from the usual contrived movie themes. G'night all.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 22:13:52 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Forgot...re Pat Metheny, the song To The End Of The World on the disc We Live Here is so perfect in every respect it's almost like it was beamed here from another galaxy. Astonishing and life changing, it really heightens your sense of interior vigilance within your own self.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 22:09:17 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

If I may humbly suggest, re Erykah Badu, some of us are possibly a little behind the curve and kind of stuck in denial. Especially in terms of the history of vocals, forget about it, she's already in like the top five most distinctive vocalists ever and she's only in her early thirties. And the lyrics on Baduism can hang with anybody's. I love Steely Dan as much as anybody but I often encounter brick walls of ostinancy in the fan base which are totally inflexible. Which brings up the next point.


More than any other musical group I know, it seems to me that people who are big Dan fans must have personalities that are very similar to Becker's and Fagen's, to what they must actually be like as people, and to me this is an endless point of fascination. I don't think I've ever observed this phenomenon with any other artist except maybe the painter Goya. I think it's great and want to know more about it.

Lastly, re what genre Steely Dan is, here's an exercise. Look at the albums of all the musicians who have ever played on a Steely Dan album. With I believe the possible exceptions of Rick Derringer and Cindy Mizelle, every one will be in the "Jazz" section of the record store, or at least the overwhelming majority. What does that say?


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 22:07:24 ET
Posted by: The Bending End, RI

I haven't been here in a while. Enjoyed doing some catching up--especially the Pat Metheny thread. I bought a couple of Metheny CDs recently after reading the recent Downbeat article. There's a track on One Quiet Night called Ferry 'Cross the Mersey, a melody that both my wife and I recognized immediately. It took some web-surfing to discover that composer 'Marsden' is Gerry Marsden of Gerry and the Pacemakers fame. I became so enamored with Metheny's version of the tune that I ended up ordering solo piano sheet music for it.

I've had just one other Metheny CD ['Works', which I believe is sort of a 'best of', at the time] for many years that I used to play a lot, but it always seemed to annoy my wife whenever I put it on. I never understood why. After drawing her attention to Ferry, she seems to get it now, and Metheny is now OK in her book.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 21:15:50 ET
Posted by: The Bending End, RI

Was that Keith Carlock playing with Sting on the Billboard Music Awards tonight? It sort of looked like him, but I didn't get a good look. I missed the beginning of the song, so I may have missed a closeup.

The worst part of this snowstorm in the northeast is that I didn't get to use my Johnny Winter tickets Friday night at the Regent Theatre in Arlington, MA. A birthday treat to myself, no less.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 21:14:49 ET
Posted by: WuDuF, blissful in Bethel

SteeveeDan, you have a very good ear for Pat's music. I am an avid listener of all of his collaborations in addition to the group. Lyle Mays is very underrated. I saw him play with his trio back in 1993 at Toad's place in New Haven after he released "Fictionary", and the music I heard that night was absolutely breathtaking.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 20:46:39 ET
Posted by: Joey ,



Hello My Steely Brothers and Sisters ..........................


Tonight - and what a cold Winter's Night it is - I thought I would write a " Steely Dan Poem " for my Steelian Kin as I wax nostalgic , as I sometimes am wont to do , for the great times we all had this summer following Don and Walt around the country :

Walter Becker's Fingers ,
They make me Quiver when they deliver ;
I cry a River with my Gin soaked Liver ,
Whilst the notes -- they slink and they slither .

-- Thank You


The Joey !


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 19:15:27 ET
Posted by: Dave, The Mohel

Hey Beautiful Housewife, I'm speechless!!!! Do share more about Libby and Donald, if that's not asking too much. Understand you can't get too personal.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 18:35:53 ET
Posted by: Beautiful Housewife, dinner's almost ready

By the way, it's not just a nut. It's a WAL-nut.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 18:11:50 ET
Posted by: Beautiful Housewife, in the kitchen

Are you talkin' to me? Actually, the Libster and I go way back.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 17:59:15 ET
Posted by: In Distress,

I don't see how people can talk shit about people they don't know. Where the fuck does Ugly housewife get off talking shit about Donald''s wife? What a nut you are.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 16:20:32 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Upon having read a bit more carefully, I now see that Gretch was referring to Sager. This Chopin vodka has a way about it.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 16:16:47 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Josey- Gretch is wrong. Becker or Fagen never had anything to do with ANY Dobbie Brothers song.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 15:58:38 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Gretch - I had no idea Fagan had anything to do with that Doobies tune. I love that tune!! I supose now I know why. You're an endless source of info!


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 15:41:44 ET
Posted by: Laina, hoping I pass...

Gretch, I've played it before, but not in a while. Insaniquarium *is* addictive. I just wish that it didn't take SO LONG to raise the money to get to a new level.

Lainalove


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 15:24:25 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

No matter who Donald collaborates with, he is such a perfectionist it's doubtful anything less than stellar would be released. Don's not "mushy" at all, thank goodness, and any sentimentality/romance is, as Hoops mentioned, his way of perceiving the world around him. (Don's still snarky though) Usually with Sager, it's the recording artist whose style is more prevalent on the outcome, as in the Doobie Bros. "How Do Those Fools Survive," which I thought was a great effot. I don't think any collaboration would overshadow the Fagen influence of the music. Hopefully it'll brighten up 2004.
Does anyone ever play "Insaniquarium" (internet game)? It's quite addictive...........
G


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 14:57:28 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

BH - you ought to see me do a pratfall over the ottoman. Bupkiss. I remember it coming from Alan Brady, yes, it must have a Yiddish etymology is what I'm thinking.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 14:53:07 ET
Posted by: Beautiful Housewife, in tight capris

And I thought I was the only one who was a "Dick Van Dyke" show aficianado around here. Or did that "Bupkiss" reference come from somewhere else and Carl Reiner just pick it up for the show? Rob Petrie deserves at least half of the royalites, wherever it came from. Yours truly, Mary Tyler Moore.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 14:37:30 ET
Posted by: Rcray, FLA

Remember the movie Arthur 2??


Fagen and Bayer Sager were on that album together
Arthur 2: On the Rocks (1988)

Love Is My Decision - Chris De Burgh (Burt Bacharach / Carole Bayer Sager / Chris de Burgh)
Gravity - Brenda Russell (Brenda Russell / Gardner Cole)
Secret - Orchestral Manoeuvres In the Dark (OMD)
Speed of Light - Reimy (Debbie Gibson)
Boys Night Out - Tower of Power (Ellis Hall)
The Best of Times - Burt Bacharach (Burt Bacharach)
The Locomotion - Kylie Minogue (Gerry Goffin / Carole King)
Reflections - Steve Khan,Donald Fagen (Thelonious Monk)
Devotion - Liz Story (Liz Story)
Love Theme From Arthur - Burt Bacharach (Burt Bacharach)


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 14:25:42 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

BH & Tuesy - loss and despair was a darn sight better than what Don was giving us the ten years previous: bupkiss(sp?). Let's not underestimate loss and despair here, ladies. Loss and despair is always bank in a love song. And Tuesday, I believe those are the first disparaging words I've ever heard you utter, sweetheart, please don't shatter my illusions and send me spinning off into a bleak landscape of loss and despair.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 14:16:41 ET
Posted by: Tuesday Weld, Wednesday

Donald is too good for Libby.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 14:15:12 ET
Posted by: Beautiful Houswife, sorting socks

I thought it was interesting that Donald notes that the "inspiration" for Kamakiriad came from Libby
Titus. Yeah, right. All songs about loss and despair. Great. If I was her, I wouldn't brag too loudly! Beautiful Survivor.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 14:07:58 ET
Posted by: Beautiful Housewife, Distressed Deeply

How about those lean projects featuring Rosie Vela collaborations? Somehow we survived that! A CBS collaboration couldn't be as distressing as "Zazu", at least to this mournful listener.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 13:52:37 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Wistful indeed and lots of themes about loss. As we've mentioned before, Cooleridge and Blake, both considered poets of the Romantic Period, have tons of imagery reminscent of both Don and SD. Don more Cooleridge and Walt more Blake.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 13:48:30 ET
Posted by: countermoon, loves is lost

On a night like this
You look up at your lover
It's like you're in some old cartoon
Then you detect
The scent of faded roses
Up in the sky
There's that cruel countermoon
Could that be murder you see in her eyes
You try a long and desperate kiss
You can't escape it
That beam is sure to find you

Chorus:
On a night like this
The story is told
How the women get restless
And the men grow cold
Gotham shudders
There's a chill in the air
There's a countermoon
Lovers all beware

Hand in hand
You walk along the river
You stop to clutch and caress
A countermoonbeam
Comes sweeping off the water
She says "You're not my Jackie.
My Jackie was the best."
Spitewaves are threatening
The seaside hotels
It's nasty weather for July
Last night you loved her
Tonight you wonder why

Chorus

At every pay phone
There's somebody cryin'
All the streets are slick with tears
When you see that blue ray
There's a heartquake on the way


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 13:42:51 ET
Posted by: hoops,

That's exactly what I am illustrating, BW: there is nothing wrong with Donald writing with Bayer-Sager and it will be great, just like anyone who might have complained about DF writing with Clements 15 or more years ago. My point is look how well that turned out.

By romantic, I don't just mean in the love-interest, I also mean in a wistful way of looking at life and things in general. Donald's very romantic in the literary sense.

jim


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 13:33:04 ET
Posted by: Beautiful Housewife, Deep Desperation

And what's wrong with Marcelle Clements as songwriter? I want to know!


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 13:30:29 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Hoops - I'm glad somebody noticed how romantic Donald's solo work is. It's kinda shocking really. Not that he extends too far over into the schmaltz, but some lines like: "when we kissed, we could hear the sound of thunder," "the answer's still the same, it was you," "you try a long and desperate kiss," and my favorite, "I stood and watched my happiness drift outward toward the tide," well, they could've been written by Mr. Romance, McCartney hisself. Could Don be a closet softy? I guess. I know this will make our Gretchen very happy.

But it seems when Don & Walt put on their Steely mantle, everything is transformed. It's like Jim Carrey in that Mask movie. On goes the mask and mayhem and hi-jinks ensue. Now writing a romantic song with your best buddy is kinda, I dunno, gay,(and there's nothing wrong with that). Sure, Lennon and McCartney did it but of course, they're Englishmen[insert rim shot here]. Kidding, mates. So maybe Donald wants to write with a lady, say what you will about Ms. Sager's work but she is a major songstress, and see what that's all about. I agree it'll be a brace of tunes for some flick set in Manhattan.

We all love the grand puzzle that is the lyric legacy of Steely Dan but there is something to be said for just laying it out there all mushy mushy from the heart sometimes. Plus, chicks dig that stuff.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 12:38:49 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

If there's a tour to promote any Fagen/Sager release, will Jerry Mahoney make a special appearance? I myself was always partial to Knucklehead.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 12:22:10 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Thanks for the link, Russ. Not sure I follow why should we say it isn't so. I imagine that if we roll back the clock to 1987 and heard Marcelle Clements was writing with Donald, might some of us have a similar reaction? Probably so. But look at the results: the outstanding "Big Noise, New York."

Of course, many of us recall, last May when this story was discussed and then subsequently it was reported that DF is working with other songwriters as well. My hunch is still that the collaboration with Carole Bayer Sager is a one- or two-off.

I hope there will some day be another Steely Dan studio album, but I also sense based on past solo projects that Donald and Walter must also have things they'd like to do apart or at least with less involvement from each other.

I have a feeling the time for that is next. Lately, I've been playing to death my collection of one-off DF singles and soundtrack cuts from the late 1980s/early 90s, as well as Kama and "Nightfly." I am really struck at how relatively romantic these songs are compared to Steely Dan songs. I really sense and appreciate that Donald may have more of that pent up in him and he will want to perhaps explore that next. That's my hunch and I am looking forward to it. A quintet or NY Rock and Soul II might be cool as well.

What's more, I think such experiences will bring future WB/DF collaborations to new places.

Aside from those three Fagen discs, I've been listening to 2vN quite a bit lately, much more than EMG. There's one thing about EMG, despite its greatness, that has made me want to take a break from it: it's a pretty dark and relatively sad album, even by SD standards.

Speaking of which: SIX MONTHS SINCE EMG CAME OUT! Can you believe it!?

All my two cents--thanks for even giving it a blink of the eye.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 11:52:30 ET
Posted by: Russ,

Another recent story mentioning Donald's collaboration with Carole Bayer Sager:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=769&ncid=768&e=20&u=/nm/20031206/music_nm/music_sager_dc

I say again, say it ain't so, Donald!! If it's true please stop and reconsider.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 11:44:42 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

I'm not sure how to take Peter Q's last line (especially after the Erika Badu thread. (To summarize, she's very talented but her weight in oranges is not even close to Steely Dan's weight in apples.) However, I did have the following random thoughts after reading that post and others.

First of all, WNUA (which started as a faux New Age station) was the only station I heard tracks off of Kama when it came out. And I also know enough people who think SD and Fagen solo music falls in the category of what WNUA is all about, which is a superficial listening experience that plays pleasantly in the background and is unoffensive. What's so delightful about Steely Dan, especially on these stations is that if listeners were really paying attention, they probably wouldn't be playing them.

But this whole idea of marketing is what is killing radio and Clear Channel is, as we here all know about marketing that. BTW: I knew Clear Channel was conservative but I had no idea until recently, how right wing they are. Or really, how conservative and right wing they pretend to be to further their financial interests...but I digress.

The thing about the artist I listen to most--Steely Dan, Van Morrison, Leonard Cohen--is that they really defy classification. Growing up, I heard the Beatles, Carpenters, Led Zep, Elton John, Stevie Wonder, Carole King and Maureen McGovern, one hit wonders and all, on the same station. You were exposed to all of these. Van Morrison had this great subtle message on the back of his "A Night In San Francisco" album: in the back ground in huge letters were the words "blues," "ballads", "funk," "Jazz." -- all words that could be used describe the territory he covered on that album. And also, he purposely left off "Rock and Roll."

Why is it that radio turned down "Janie Runaway" simply because it had a sax solo instead of a guitar solo? (That actually is what happened, as many of you know.)

While today's segmenting of radio formats is abhorrent; one thing I really feel is overlooked is the format of so called "classic rock" radio stations. I mean, most of the artists they feature on these stations, STILL are making new music, some of their best. It's pretty easy to turn on the radio any day, spin the dial and hear "Rikki,' "Do It Again, " or two or three other "classic" Steely Dan songs. But those stations should also be playing these artists new material. Why do these stations only play 60-early 80s tracks? I know why but it's absurd. Why is it today, that if I want to hear aboout the new songs from Steely Dan, Bod Seger, Mike McDonald, I have to listen to an interview on NPR? We know why (the marketing and all) but it's quite clear that it is marketing and radio that is hurting the recording industry and not MP3s or illicit file swapping. Ten years ago, I had a habit of going to the record store every Tuesday to buy a CD. I'm very willing to spend that money still, but there's little new released. If they're marketing is so ojn target, why do I walk into a store ready to drop $10-$20 and walk out with no CD and still holding my $10-$20?

I find most frequently that I buy jazz reissues these days. To be sure, most of these poor artists made little if anything off of these and but I don't feel like they recorded those albums thinking how they were going to market them.

I've heard that during the late 60s and early 70s, artists who recorded music were able to move a few steps ahead of the record companies and then the marketers at the record companies caught up. I think the same thing is happening in general with the internet. in the late 80s and early 90s the innovators were moving so fast that business and marketers couldn't keep up and growth exploded; now that business has caught up, I see it taking control of the internet and growth is plateauing.

Anyhoe, 'nuff of my ramblings.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 11:27:38 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, @work



My musically (from a technical standpoint)uniformed 2 pennies on the current topic...

I ahbor smooth jazz on the whole, I get the same feeling as when the dentist's drill hits something it's not supposed to. However, there are certain artists, like Larry Carlton, who had the #1 smooth jazz song of the year a few years back, who I enjoy listening to despite that fact and because his whole body of work does not lie in the doctor's office waiting room muzak. I'm not going to go around trashing anyone for making that kind of music nor listening to it especially since I still like to through in the ocassional Slayer cd. As has been stated here ad nausem, music is everything to everybody and amen for that. Myself, I would rather classify SD as a rock band than a smooth jazz band. I think thier roots grow deeper in that direction. Or I could just be blowing smoke... I am going to check out some Metheny though, always something positive to be had here.

Peace,

KC


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 11:14:03 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Stevee Dan - talk about hitting the nail on the head! I've always thought the brilliance of the Dan's music was that it was fairly sophisticated jazz stuff put in a listener friendly format. The common listener who might not know squat about music can still listen along and bop their head in time. The musician can listen and catch all those clever little nuance things. Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that one couldn't listen to Steely Dan as background music like you could Metheny's. If you're listening to Metheny as background music, you're not listening to Metheny!!

The guitar you metioned is called a Pikasso, 42 strings, made especially for Metheny.
As far as what type of station we hear Steely Dan played on, I don't care really. I'm always greatful to flip the radio channel and hear them, regardless of wether it's smooth jazz, rock, whatever.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 08:24:23 ET
Posted by: Jolly Roger, NYC

Peter Q- That's funny... I was at Tower Records and The Virgin Mega Store yesterday. Both stores have Steely Dan in the "Rock Section". Next to Springsteen, not Sanborn!

I've heard The Boston Rag and Do It Again on smooth Jazz stations. I'm not letting a radio programer dictate what type of music Steely Dan is.


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 06:36:49 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Stevee...sure, Pat's albums are not Smooth Jazz, but the smooth jazz stations that I listen to such as WNUA in Chicago, The Wave in Southern Cal, and CD 101.9 here all play certain of his songs over and over, just as they do 2 Steely Dan songs (Peg and Hey 19). Smooth Jazz is more of a marketing category than a style of music.

As I have posted here many times, see www.billevanssax.com, click on Vans Joint, for a discussion of what smooth jazz is.

Certainly no one wants to say that Steely Dan has more in common with rock n roll bands than with smooth jazz type artists?????


Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 03:40:59 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, The Solarium

This one's super long ... I wouldn't be at all offended if some of you decided to skip over this one ... but on the other hand ...


A lot of levels of musical and compositional sophistication have been mentioned here ... to the more simplistic, that would be Sade. To the more sophisticated, that would be Pat Metheny.

Sade first hit the scene with "Smooth Operator" and she made quite an impression with her beauty and sultry singing. None of what was on her early records is very complex harmonically, but, she (and her band and their producer) have created some very unique and lasting music. Sort of like the Astrude Gilberto of the 1980's ... at least that'w who my friends and I used to compare her to because of her occasional off-pitch (but not totally off key) singing style. There's nothing wrong with Sade's music. It's still very satisfying to listen to after all these years.

Then, on the other side of the harmonic sophistication scale is Pat Metheny. Pat certainly isn't the only one creating music at this stellar level of creativity and sophistication, but this is whom has been bandied about here, and I am a huge fan of his, so, I will use him for the more sophisticated musical examples.

Just like any sophisticated music (with the possible exception of 12-tone, or atonal music, which I have a hard time listening to at all), it takes time to obsorb the full brunt of what is being offered. At first listen, a great deal of Metheny's music could be considered to be "smooth jazz". But if the listener were to sit down and listen to an entire album of his, or even, 5 to 10 albums of his (roughly one third of his output to date), the smooth jazz label would no longer apply.

Metheny has recorded a lot of different music, from solo guitar, over-dubbed multiple guitars, a full band, jazz, modern jazz, rock, Hendrix-type atonal soloing (usually heard at one of his concerts in the early days), latin influenced music, ethnic music of many different flavors, and the afore mentioned atonal music. That is a vastly wide range of musical composition from one composer (and Lyle Mays too on many occasions) in a relatively short period of time (20 or so years). There is also his use of different guitar tunings, his contribution to the advent and deployment of the guitar synthesiser, and, that monstrous guitar with I-can't-remember-how-may-strings on it, that is too heavy to sling over the shoulder ... it needs it's own stand.

Calling Pat Metheny a "smooth jazz" artist is (how can I put this nicely) a totally uninformed comment. Metheny surpasses the harmonic compositional choices made by our heros Messers Fagen and Becker.

I am not saying that Steely Dan couldn't write stuff that is more sophisticated than they have to date as Steely Dan. In fact, on various solo projects, they both have done that. What I am saying is that Steely Dan began as a rock based band, and has grown up and become more sophisticated. Their music has approached the jazz idiom as their careers advanced (this is an obvious statement).

They made the conscious decision to stay more toward mainstream jazz-rock music in order to capture a less fanatical audience (such as ourselves, who, admittedly would purchase ANYTHING these guys put out ... and some stuff that they didn't want put out there ... well ... traded anyway).

Lately, the specific song that I would cite to illustrate this view would be 2000's Cousin Dupree. That CD (TVN) had some incredibly sophisticated tunes, such as Almost Gothic and Negative Girl. And does anyone think that Cousin Dupree should have been included on the playlists of the smooth jazz stations?

As for writing charts for various composers ...
I have written take-down charts for Sade, Steely Dan, and Pat Metheny among many others. Sade was fairly easy, but there were some nuances there that needed to be properly addressed in order to allow a musician sightreading the charts to recreate the sound in a somewhat authentic manner. But Sade wasn't that hard.

Steely Dan (certain charts) were very challenging. True Companion (Fagen - from the Heavy Metal soundtrack) was very challenging. Negative Girl ... same story. It was mentioned previously that the chord progressions in Steely Dan music are startlingly different. It takes a while to bend one's mind around a lot of their stuff. This is specifically what makes their music (both listening to it, and "cracking the code" of it) so enthralling and so much fun for me.

Pat Metheny is even harder to crack. It is crackable, but, it really takes a lot more effort. And since I am not in a Pat Metheny tribute band, I don't really go to that far an extent to learn it. But I will tell you this: way back when ... in '79 ( I know ... you all thought I was going to say "'67" right?) when I first saw the Pat Metheny Group play, I thought that Lyle Mays was an amazing keyboard player. I remember telling people back then that if I were to pursue a full-time music career (which I decided NOT to do), I would want to be able to play like Lyle. I thought then, and I still do today, that Lyle is one of the best keyboard players I have ever seen or heard.

But, back on "cracking the code" ... a few years back, there was a phenomenal music book edited by Pat himself that had a majority of his songs done. It is one of my most treasured songbooks ... right up there with my vintage and current Steely Dan songbooks, and some of my highly collectable Beatles songbooks from the 1960's.

So what is the point of this post of mine? I would like to take a moment to thank those of you who hung in there to read this entire post. My point is simply this: Music is an artform. No two people hearing the same song have an identical concept or impression of what they are listening to. There is a convergence of ideas, vast similarities, but not identical beliefs. Even the way we music-hacks might represent a harmony (chord) won't be the same across the board (with the possible exception of a simple major triad ... there's only 3 notes in one of those).

Being able to understand the more sophisticated harmonic relationships of music composed by Pat Metheny doesn't make that listener a better or more qualified listener than someone who is more comfortable with simpler music. Just different.

I don't listen to the Beatles for it's music sophistication. But there is no doubt that their music is still amazing. And I am not drawn to Pat Metheny because his music sophisticated. I listen to it because I love it too.

And then there's Steely Dan ... I mean, what can you really say?
(What DID I really say? ... Who can say? ... Say. Can you?)


SteveeDan



Date: Wed, December 10, 2003, 02:03:15 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Peter Q. and others contemplating a discussion on the level of sophistication of SD songs versus Sade, Metheny, Spyro Gyro and whomever else gets put in that mix....

Wouldn't this have to get technical...involving a working understanding of music theory ? If you're talking about SD songcraft..then to begin with it's neccessarily about chord progressions, voicings, rythyms, instruments, lyrics, and all the other elements that make a song. And then it's how they get mixed (how they're emphasized and 'placed') and how any listener interprets the end result.

So, what's the objective criteria to measure the level of sophistication in an SD song ?



Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 23:23:00 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Peter my compadre, Leo's voice, though strident and shrill, is necessary here. We need him like we need both Howard Stern and Bill O'Reilly. We need that loyal and respectful opposition; and if you noticed, finally, Leo is making an effort to sound respectible and I for one, am truly grateful. Not sensible does he sound by any means, but acceptable. I view this as a real victory for all of us.


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 22:13:45 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Leo! Anytime you want to put one of your transcriptions of a Steely Dan song against one of your transcriptions of Pat Mehtheny's or Tom Schuman's compositions instead of just ranting,and explain the difference in the level of "sophistication," let's do it here on the board so we'll all have a chance to benefit from your knowledge. Seriously, I'd love to see you try to transcribe a Spyro Gyra song like Incognito or Westwood Moon and explain to us why exactly it shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath, but rationally, without ranting.


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 20:08:53 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Good man - Jaydee - nicely put. I usually never care what's going on with the rhythm guitar and piano chords with most others. Theirs just suck you in.


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 18:21:54 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

'Steely Dan as musicians and composers...overrated by their fans'? I think not. As musicians, we (and they) know their strengths and limitations, and that they are more than capable of maximising the former. As composers, they simply are as good as we think they are.

Are the words the primary component of Dan's eminence? Again, I think not. The extraordinary, enigmatic lyrics, along with the prodigious musicianship of their 'chosen ones', and their peerless production values, are just the icing on the cake.

It's the chords that do it for me - chords that lay up against each other in constantly surprising configurations, yet sound like they were just there waiting to be discovered. Chords that just demand to be improvised over by the best instrumentalists on the block. Chords that I find virtually impossible to listen to as background music, unlike Sade, Metheny or even (dare I say) 'Kind of Blue'.

Well, that's my take on it (on a cold West London evening after a bottle of soave!).


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 16:04:36 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" Q - Without those incredibly addictive melodic hooks, I would have never given them a second listen way back when I was a kid "

Agreed ..................witness the into to " Aja " or the opening chords to " The Royal Scam " . How about the intrinsic and yes , sensitive , beauty of Donald's illuminating IGY ?!?!

It is enough to make the Joey pensive and all " Misty Eyed " ...........................and you ?!?!?!

Now if you will excuse me , I ma late for a meeting .

************** END TRANSMISSION *****************

J.






Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 14:51:29 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Also consider that last Spring, Walter said how much he liked Wilco's "Yankee Fox Trot Hotel." Very germaine link.

Steely Dan's cross-over to "jaz" is a ironic by product of the ironically pleasant music they set their submersive songs to. At a glance on the surface it looks sounds like elevator music. That's why a while back, SD was ranked as one of the top-five most -played artists on store music.

Regarding Peter Q (as opposed to long-timer Q)'s comments on Erika Badu, I have to respectfully disagree. Yes, she's talented, I'll agree she's an artist, she's got vocal chops but no way does she have the same songwriting or musical chops of SD. Nope. But she might be a cut above Sade.

Often I agree with you, Leo, but my agreement is often outweighed by the way you disagree.

If you need to post HTML, it's very welcome BUT (as pointed out in the "guildlines" beneath where you post), you need to send it to me via email. Unfortunately, enough people botch code that direct HTML can't be accomodated.

As far as Peter Q and Danfannovel.com, I think the think I enjoy most is how much Peter seems to enjoy it; reading a little goes a long way, but it's easy to O.D. on.

After the holidays, there will be a compilation from people here and the Digest. Hope you can contribute if it's fun for you.

jim


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 14:08:45 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Harry - that Meta site is quite interesting. Yeah, the Wilco album is something else.


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 13:52:41 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

I would definitely agree that Metheny, as do Steely Dan, have songs that crossover to the "smooth jazz" format. But I've seen enough of Metheny's comments on the subject of the term "smooth jazz" to know it drives him nuts - as it probably does Steely Dan. Several years back there was a station here in Atlanta that had that format and it seemed like everytime I flipped over to it, I heard Deacon Blues.


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 13:46:43 ET
Posted by: HarryBallsonu, llc

http://www.metacritic.com/music/artists/wilco/yankeehotelfoxtrot/


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 13:43:34 ET
Posted by: .com, .com

http://www.metacritic.com/music/artists/steelydan/everythingmustgo/


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 13:24:39 ET
Posted by: Rcray, nyc

Metheny does have an album that sounds like smooth jazz it's called "We Live Here".

Smooth Jazz doesn't define him but he is radio friendly for that particular format.



Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 13:19:52 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Q - Without those incredibly addictive melodic hooks, I would have never given them a second listen way back when I was a kid. I only knew from the Beatles, Led Zep, stuff like that. Once those Do It Again and Dirty Work grooves got under my skin, I had to look at what the words were saying. That's when it started to click in my tiny 18 year old brain. The shizzle most definitely hit the fanizzle. These guys were twisted puppies and their lyrics were scary and disturbing. More of the same.


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 13:15:11 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, On the counter by my keys

I don't know, I think the first pages of his book were kind of amusing....however if there is to be a movie made I have to claim rights to casting whomever plays the character based on me.


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 13:07:26 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

You damn sure wouldn't want to see Metheny's reaction when you throw the "smooth jazz" label on him.


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 12:28:36 ET
Posted by: Leo, It's all about the MU

Peter Q- Please don't mention Jay Beckenstien and Sade in the same sentence as Donald and Walter. Smooth jazz? I mean you GOT to be kidding! Is this your way of trying to start a discussion or an argument? Or is it just a way for you to leed into your next post on hawking your idiotic book? Man, you're becoming more annoying than Clas with his constant posts begging people to send in songs for his guestbook CD compilation. Discuss that!


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 08:25:37 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Beginning Friday pages 1-20 of DAN FAN NOVEL DOT COM will be available as a sample! Simply email. This work, consisting of 18 chapters approximately 40 pages each in length, will have samples up on several of the leading Dan related sites soon, as well as its own site www.danfannovel.com!

From a toilet stall in the Roseland Ballroom, to a desert shack near Phoenix, to the tension laden streets of Jerusaelem, to the gritty blues bar scene on the South Side of Chicago, to the streets of old London (was Dickens a Steely Dan fan? did Dickens paricipate in some kind of Pretzel Logic time travel?) this chronicle will follow several memebers of the ulta secret International Amalgamation of Steely Dan Sectarians as they search for...whatever it is they are searching for.

Email today! Thanks.


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 08:11:13 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

The Russian's post below contains the assertion "...what this logically leads into is that Steely Dan as musicians and composers have been pretty much overrated by their fans."

Discuss. He goes on to say that what really makes Dan a standout are their lyrics, not their music. Discuss. Personally I have never met anybody who could explain to me why or how SD's music is any more or less sophisticated than say Metheny, Spyro Gyra, Sade, etc. etc.

Is it true that the words are what makes the diff? For purposes please don't compare Dan music to the Stones or rock bands. It is understood that their music is a little higher than that. Compare to smooth jazz personnel, which is the correct genre.


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 05:14:45 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

I meant, of course, mobius strips with a double twist. Sorry, just bored at work.

('test' post was not me by the way)


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 05:02:21 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

In which case might not said professor deserve a co-writer's credit and royalties ?

Funniest album covers - I liked Jethro Tull's 'Thick as a Brick', but only ever saw the vinyl cover - can't think how they would do it on a CD version.


Date: Tues, December 09, 2003, 04:52:39 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

sharkdeville

I like the 'contorted time' idea (which I hadn't heard before) - but does that mean the phrase 'pretzel logic' was actually coined not by D and W but by some professor of theoretical physics at the university of Albuquerque ?

Mobius strips are also, of course, excellent - particularly when cut in half along their median.


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 20:28:02 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu,

shakrdeville: Yes, I love to see Tuesday Weld doing the Mobius Strip! Talk about a Red Shift!


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 19:43:59 ET
Posted by: sharkdeville, the basement

re. pretzel logic...
isn't that a theory that time is shaped more like a pretzel than a straight line? that the present crosses paths with the past/future at certain points, making time travel possible?

the song's about travelling through time... right?


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 17:57:38 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

As you are by the Tur-ban-ator.


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 17:50:37 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" You know, Joey, there's a lot of cowboy in both Walter & Don. They're both straight shooters, not emotional or thin-skinned, understated, dignified; one gets the sense of two very very tough ................"

Rajah , My Steelian Brother , you are much loved by the Joey .

The Joey , Established 2003 !


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 17:33:12 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

You know, Joey, there's a lot of cowboy in both Walter & Don. They're both straight shooters, not emotional or thin-skinned, understated, dignified; one gets the sense of two very very tough customers who do not suffer fools well. As a musician, you would definitely NOT want to come at them with any lame-ass weak sh*t. They are Major Dudes.


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 15:49:31 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" Something else about WB's blues, it's got a Western flavor. As in old Country & Western? There's some Gene Autry singin cowboy stuff for goodnessake in there. Dirty Work, Western World, Major Dude, Daddy Don't, Monkey, Cuz DuPree, Godwhacker, SOA. OK, maybe the anti-Gene Autry. "

Walter ain't no Gene Autry ..................Thank God !!!!

Word !



Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 14:23:40 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

I liked the cover to Court of the Crimson King (the big cartoonish gargoyle guy). And The Who Sell Out with Townsend applying a giant deoderant stick to his armpit.


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 14:01:34 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, drifting....

I don't know what made me think of this, but what are some of the funniest album covers ever? I'm thinking Zappa's "Weasles Ripped My Flesh." I'm losing my damn mind, I'm just cracking myself up thinking of it.......


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 11:23:39 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Gretch-o-lina: It's a brisk 53 degrees, clear as a bell, I can see the ocean(12 miles away) from here in downtown. High today 65. Come on out, you can have the guest room. Don't worry, there's lock on the door...course...I have the extra key.


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 10:46:03 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, out of sorts

I'm glad your email is working fine, Pete. I can't say the same for our heat in the office. No heat! Brrrrrrr, CA here I come.
G


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 10:40:25 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

It's working fine, respond here to this.


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 10:35:52 ET
Posted by: Trying to reach you, ...

Q,
Your email keeps getting returned undeliverable - check on your end.


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 10:29:52 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct,


Bill:

See link below for your info:

http://www.davemackey.com/snlband/97tb.html

Hope this helps.


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 10:24:41 ET
Posted by: Bill, Pittsburgh

Was that SD's own Tom Barney on bass in the Saturday Night Live house band this past week or another dreadlocked bassist? I have not watched SNL much this year so for all I know he's got the gig reguarly.


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 06:53:50 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

Laina

Yes, fully aware of my poor judgement here. PQ's personae have a certain inimitable sophistication. Apologies to all.


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 06:49:15 ET
Posted by: Laina, fighting sleep

Jaydee, PQ is not at fault here.

Lainalove


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 05:05:33 ET
Posted by: Hey Raj Turban Head , What the heck do you have against

others like yourself wearing a big ole TURBAN dude? Don't be so racist and rude and take another lude and stop being a prude and crude!

Trout


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 02:59:31 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

Stop it PQ - maybe you need some new wacky characters but it's not clever and it's not funny (!).


Date: Mon, December 08, 2003, 02:37:02 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

At the risk of asking a dumb question - does the phrase 'pretzel logic' have any meaning in the US, outside of Dandom? I've always assumed it was made up by D and W, as I've never heard it anywhere else, but then we don't really have pretzels over here (only little crunchy ones in bags).

I only ask because I noticed a book on Amazon called 'Pretzel Logic' which doesn't seem to have a Dan connection - although one of the reviews does, spookily, refer to Danielle Steel !


Date: Sun, December 07, 2003, 21:32:33 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Steven - nice to see you here. Hilary? As in Hilary Duff? Major boner, Steve. Schwinnngg! Hilary and Felice, like, together? Ouch.

Tell us when Pretzel Logic's next gig is candelabra breath. Hugs.


Date: Sun, December 07, 2003, 20:59:03 ET
Posted by: SteveeDan, High in the CusterDome

Ok ... Ok. So, they didn't get nominated for a Grammy. It's no big deal. When I think of great music, for some reason, The Grammy's, the American Music Awards, and the MTV Awards just don't seem to come to mind. The Oscars and the Golden Globes still seem to mean something to the Dramatic Arts ... they still seem to be relevant, but not those whacked-out music awards shows.

MTV might be somewhat significant, but not that much more relevant due to the fact that they know they are a joke, and their production of the awards show is obviously tongue in cheek (or some other oraphace).

I only tuned in to the American Music Awards to see one act ... Hilary Duff. (I know, most of you are rolling on the floor now ...) The reason I wanted to see her ... (besides my letcherous tendancies) was because our Pretzel Logic backing singer Felice H. is on tour with Hilary. When Hilary finally came on, I watched the whole thing ... but they only showed Felice for like 3 seconds or something. What a bummer.

As for the award trophies ... they could come in handy as a blunt instrument if you want to make someone "disappear" ...


SteveeDan


Date: Sun, December 07, 2003, 13:11:19 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

SD lyrics would not translate well at all from Russian, W1A, too many colloquialisms, slang and double meanings. I can't think of any language that they would, German a little maybe but the whole collection is such a chronicle of late 20th century America that their lyrics must seem like a cacaphony of jumbled thoughts to non-native speakers attempting to decipher them.

Jaco - No doubt except for all the unabashed classic blues formulas. Those have to be Walter's.

Something else about WB's blues, it's got a Western flavor. As in old Country & Western? There's some Gene Autry singin cowboy stuff for goodnessake in there. Dirty Work, Western World, Major Dude, Daddy Don't, Monkey, Cuz DuPree, Godwhacker, SOA. OK, maybe the anti-Gene Autry.


Date: Sun, December 07, 2003, 13:02:45 ET
Posted by: Zman from Lost Wages, Lad Vegas

I too am sorry that the boys were shut out of the Grammys this year.
Seems like the Hip Hop culture has taken over. Sad state of music these days. One small consolation if Beyonce wins the Grammy.
The boys may still be indirect winners also. On her new remix of the song " Me Myself and I " the prominent sample of the beginning of Black Cow is there.....A sneaky way for the guys to still get there
Grammy?

Zman in Lost Wages


Date: Sun, December 07, 2003, 10:11:53 ET
Posted by: Jaco, That Russian thing..........

Hmmm......I won't repeat what's already been said..... but I would say that although they say most of their music is half and half, that Fagen has a slightly more active part in writing music, and Becker in the lyrics.


Anyone agree?



Regards




Jaco


Date: Sun, December 07, 2003, 09:06:58 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Actually the real album of the year was Hell & High Water, by the blues guitarist Tinsley Ellis. Nothing else was remotely close to it. See www.tinsleyellis.com

Several of the major Dan-related websites have graciously agreed to publish large excerpts from DAN FAN NOVEL DOT COM! Stay tuned for details.

In the Russian fellow's essay, the paragraph "First, it is impossible to separate....etc" raises an issue that I have personally discussed with hundreds of people through the years, and I have never really heard an answer.


Date: Sun, December 07, 2003, 07:53:54 ET
Posted by: Doctor Wu,

EMG is indeed a legitimate candidate for Album of the year (although the White Stripes deserve it). Its all a scam anyway - just a bunch of garbage. 2VN is about as half as good as EMG, yet they won. Its all about timing and what the hell else is going on that year - oh yeah and did I mention that it is just a big scam? :-)


Date: Sun, December 07, 2003, 07:48:24 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

Leo

Yes, those two quotes jumped out at me too, as being way off target.
Also, the Sparks comparison is rather odd. But these different viewpoints are always interesting !


Date: Sun, December 07, 2003, 06:23:13 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA

Maybe the humor does not translate well? Nyet?


Date: Sat, December 06, 2003, 18:09:11 ET
Posted by: Leo,

W1P- The Russian guy lost all credibility with his two quotes below. He actually doesn't seem to get it at all.

"namely, Walter Becker more or less the music guy and Donald Fagen more or less the lyrics guy".

"whereas one thing Steely Dan seem to sorely lack was exactly that, a sense of humour".


Date: Sat, December 06, 2003, 17:20:01 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA USSR

http://starling.rinet.ru/music/lists.htm is a link to a Russian website where this dude reviews just about every classic rock band and album ever released. Though I don't agree with him on many occasions, I like his writing style: Here's what he has to say about The Dan:

The "general category" above looks pretty idiotic, I'll admit, because Steely Dan don't look comfy when placed in between Santana and Blood, Sweat & Tears, but I have an excuse: Steely Dan don't look comfy when placed next to anybody. Through the years, they haven't really been shocking listeners with any unexpected stylistic twists (even Aja is nowhere near as thoroughly revolutionary as sometimes hinted at), yet their style pretty much escapes definition. Some call it 'elevator music', but it's not. Some call it 'fusion', but it's not - at least, nowhere near the normal understanding of a fusion band, which usually goes around as something almost completely instrumental and 100%-music-oriented. Some could call Becker and Fagen a 'singer-songwriting' duet, but this would certainly fail to include any mention of the incredible work they have always put into their creative, complex and tasteful musical arrangements. So what are they?

They're, uh, Steely Dan - namely, Walter Becker more or less the music guy and Donald Fagen more or less the lyrics guy. They haven't always been a duo, but overtime found out that it was much more convenient to go ahead as a duo and recruit whichever session musicians and guest stars they deemed it appropriate at the moment instead of depending on a regular backing band. Their point of existence was to mock American society by combining the most radio-happy melodies and arrangements possible with the most sneering, biting, poisonously satiric lyrics possible. Their sophistication was in working over those radio-happy melodies and arrangements for months and sometimes even years, sterilizing, polishing, and brushing every note to some kind of modelled perfection, and in working over the sneering lyrics so as to make them as inaccessible as could be. Their personal mystique was in gradual self-concealing, when they used to give out something like one interview per album and didn't tour at all. And their arrogance was in that there was virtually nothing sacred for them - while one thing Steely Dan never allowed themselves to express was open aggression of any sorts, you can find just about everything, from personal relations to base pillars of the establishment, mocked and ridiculized in their songs. Perhaps the closest analogy to the Dan would be the Sparks, another incredibly creative American duo whom I tend to value somewhat higher due to more musical experimentation and innovation, but the Sparks were very much of a comedy band, assaulting their lyrical matters with the primary reason to make the listener laugh his ass off, whereas one thing Steely Dan seem to sorely lack was exactly that, a sense of humour. On the other hand, they can't be quoted as being gruesomely serious, either. Let's call 'em "aphoristic", and get over it.
Over the years, Steely Dan have acquired quite a solid cult following, but they were also lucky to score with a lengthy string of hit singles and chart-hitting (even if never topping) LPs, which essentially divides those who are aware of the name into three parts: (a) dedicated fans who either despise the hit singles and concentrate on the obscure stuff or just don't make any distinction between hit and non-hit material; (b) casual radio listeners who treet Dan as okay background music while washing the dishes; (c) enraged radio listeners who want to exterminate the radio programmers whenever 'Rikki Don't Lose That Number' comes around for the umpteenth time. All the three factions have their pluses and minuses, of course, but the important things to realize, in my mind, are as follows:

First, it is impossible to separate Dan lyrics from Dan music. Both of these sides have been initially pre-planned and pre-designed to contrast with each other, and simply don't work separately. Therefore, an arrangement which might seem particularly bland and unmemorable to you might have been made just like that in order to imitate the usual middle-class radio blandness while presenting some particularly shocking lyrical image to go along with it. Second, what this logically leads into is that Steely Dan as musicians and composers have been pretty much overrated by their fans. They have a sharp sense of taste - they always seem to put all their right notes in their right places, well, almost always - but they never really invented any particular kind of sound, just taking the existing soft rock/jazz-fusion patterns and occasionally bringing them to perfection. Try to imagine Dan music without the vocals and accusations of 'elevatorism' immediately spring to mind.

They haven't been an active force in the general 'rock industry', either: I tend to think of Steely as an 'outsider' duo, just kinda standing there in the dark corner and throwing out their sarcastic albums as they contemplate what's going around without ever really being an active part of it. The fact that, after having broken up in 1980, they reconvened twenty years later to make a 'reunion' record that sounded almost exactly like its predecessor, only supports that idea. Well, after all, Steely Dan just didn't need to evolve. Why should they? Come to think of it, the world hasn't changed much either since 1972.

That said, there's something to be said on behalf of positive thinking as well - Steely Dan have to be judged according to what they did best, and since formulaicness and 'blandness' were one of the main ingredients of the Dan dish, one can't really accuse the band of these flaws. And what they actually did, they did to perfection. Their first four albums, in fact, are pretty much all spotless, and rating their records is a bit of a headache as a result. Note that this page has been a long time in coming, a time over which my initial judgement of the band has changed, like, ninety angles at least, so a couple negative (or positive) remarks in the reviews of Aja and Gaucho might be anachronistic, but I think you'll be able to make matters transparent to yourself anyway.


Date: Sat, December 06, 2003, 10:26:07 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

I suggest the wisdom of the Grammy's has been gone - with the obviouse exception of 2VN a few years ago. I'm at the point where I'd rather have my toenails ripped out than watch any of these music award shows. Now that EMG has totally gone unrecognized, I'd like to cordially invite everyone involved with the Grammy's to suck a fart out of my ass!


Date: Sat, December 06, 2003, 00:28:15 ET
Posted by: jw, baltimore,md.

No Grammy nominations for Steely Dan, "Everything Must Go", the best pop album released in the last 23 years?

Now the Grammys mean next to nothing! Only meaningful nominations I saw were for Dave Holland Quintet and Keith Jarrett.

The wisdom of the Grammys [ALBUM OF THE YEAR nominees AJA, GAUCHO, THE NIGHTFLY, KAMAKIRIAD and TWO AGAINST NATURE] is over!!!

THE BEST ALBUM OF 2003:
STEELY DAN - EVERYTHING MUST GO

Will we be fortunate enough to receive another Steely Dan release? I certainly hope so. May Mr. Fagen and Mr. Becker record for many more years to come.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 23:38:37 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Someone just mailed the Dandom Digest about a new issue of Rolling Stone that has the top 50 albums of 2003 (like it's over already?).

According to this report, EMG isn't included. What a way to follow up the Grammy debacle. Someone at Reprise must not have arranged rent boys for Wenner or something like that.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 21:13:36 ET
Posted by: gary, san diego

Bosco lives...
dig it if you know jazz..you know it"

gary


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 20:51:09 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

MuMu - lasagna...I understand. You wise man.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 20:45:38 ET
Posted by: Doctor mu,

Peter - I bet I bought Baduizm before you did. She's a great artist, certainly worthy of Grammy recognition... I would put her in between Lauryn Hill, Mary J. Blige (as Gretchen astutely mentioned), and Rickie Lee Jones. Her albums sound great and lively (especially the second LIVE album!). In fact, I would agree that she an Maxwell as well as Tony Toni Toné are part of a revival or R&B/soul stalled only by Madonna/Britney/Justin and the like... However, the albums don't have the same level of sophistication and musicianship (charts and playing) of a Dan album...Erykahs albums sound just as great on the 30th listen as the second, but no better...

...In contrast, Dan is like Lasagna. The more times you reheat it the better it sounds. TvN on DVD-A still boggles my mind...Face it, Steely Dan is too sneaky...and EMG is a cult classic.

Pixeleen is not only the best song of the year, but the best in many years. Lunch with Gina sounds like they are in my living room! The best studio "live" groove! Green book just slaps ya with those classic MU chords...what's not to like?


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 19:48:40 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Jann-Jann-Jann, more misery. Two things: 1) ain't it great that Rolling Stone, known very well by us as the all powerful pretend music magazine and king of revisionist Dan history, now they love Dan now they don't and oops, did I give Gaucho 2 stars in 1980, no I mean 3.5 20 years later, hey ain't it grand they noticed EMG shoulda been there but 2) the voters polled say they are LEAST surprised amongst all the other nominations and omissions that SD weren't nominated. Not nominating EMG was the least of all sins. They're putting me through some changes here.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 19:41:55 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Each of the 18 chapters of WWW.DANFANNOVEL.COM will be approximately 40 pages in length. The first ten sample pages of Chapter One are now available, simply email for a sample.






Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 18:50:49 ET
Posted by: Jann,

Poll on rollingstone.com today:

What was the Grammys' biggest surprise?

New Artist: Sean Paul

Album of the Year: White Stripes

6 noms for Beyonce

No Steely Dan


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 17:21:28 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

OK Peter - it's not nice to lead your cyberfriends down the garden path. I couldn't go to 14 Steely Dan shows with Sinatra doing a twenty minute opener much less a veritable Badu-palooza.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 17:06:09 ET
Posted by: hoops,

The latest Dandom Digest covering December 1-5 has just been emailed. Subscribers not receiving the Dandom Digest in the next 12 hours, should please email me. There have been a lot of issues connected with SPAM blockers and firewalls blocking delivery so please let me know if you have problems.

If you want to be a subscriber, please check out http://www.danndom.com/dandomdigest

In this Dandom Digest dated December 1-5, 2003 are the following subjects:

- EMG, SD Clean Up with *70* Danny Award Nominations
- Complete Listing of SD-related Danny Award Nominations
- Steely Dan In Rolling Stone Top Albums (Last time and now)
- Reflections on the lack of a 2003 Tour DVD
- Kama DVD-A is "sublime"
- I know that Piano Man (about Bernardt)
- re: I know that Piano Man (about Bernardt & Baker)
- Re: Battle Apple (was Scrapple )
- RE: Steely Dan Rarities
- collecting rare sd songs
- Re: Steely Dan Rarities
- Confide in Me! ....some Steely Dan rarities...
- Re: Steely Dan Rarities
- Steely Dan Rarities
- Walk It Like You Talk It
- Katy Lied is now Reely Dan

Thanks as always.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 17:01:11 ET
Posted by: Dave, the Mohel

The "San Diego Union Tribune" pointed out something I was unaware of.

Fleetwood Mac came out with 'Say You Will," a follow-up to their big Grammy winner, "The Dance." "Say You Will" was also shnaydered.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 16:59:25 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Coming soon!
Badufannovel.com
I bet you all can't wait!


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 16:45:51 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Yeah well I plan to go to 14 Badu shows this spring, not the least of which is the Great Stage @ Radio City. I also hope to make Philly, Nashville, LA, Boston, Detroit, and assorted others.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 16:13:13 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" Peter Q, I think you better call Tyrone. "

Gretchen .........................................


You make Joey smile .

Snarky !


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 15:55:00 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Sick 'em Gretchy. I agree. But if you and Q's recommend, I'll have to at least check her out.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 15:06:37 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Well, Pete, the issue is worldliness. She hasn't been around nearly as long to experiment with styles and techniques like SD or, say, a Joni Mitchell. She doesn't have the track record Steely Dan has. Perhaps someday, but not yet. She's a great young artist, but saying she's equal to SD would have been like comparing Don and Walt to Brubeck back in 1973.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 14:43:56 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Gretch - like Steely Dan, even though her own music is essentially backbeat music, she has equal command and knowledge of the jazz and R&B idioms. Like Steely Dan, her lyrics are not trite, run of the mill pop song fluff. And even though her lyrics are much more direct than Steely Dan's, they still have an air of mystery and open-to-interpretation-ness. Her horn arrangements and use of (wordless) harmony vocals are excellent. I don't feel it's apples and oranges at all.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 14:23:14 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Remember that class-action suit against the record companies and some major retailers you could go to a web site and swear you deserved part of the pot? It was mentioned here, among many, many other places.

Well, if you signed up and swore back then, a check for $12.60 will be coming some day to your mailbox. In related news, another suit means CD club members may get up to three Cds at 75% off with no S + H changes. hmmm..

For more details:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-ap-cd-settlement,1,4184191.story?coll=chi-news-hed


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 14:00:03 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, back from the tree farm, frozen and covered with spruce needles

Peter, I agree she's a very unique artist but you can't really compare her style to that of the Dan's. It's like the apple/orange thing. To say one equals another I guess depends on the listener's personal opinion. What do you think of Lauryn Hill or Mary J. Blige? I think they are up there with Erykah quality-wise, just on the more funky side.

I'm avoiding malls at all costs - Nordstrom has it's own door to the outside. I don't want to catch any of those things going around in December. Drinking lots of black tea prevents colds and such, I'm living proof.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 13:59:33 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

bassicinstinct

Just dug out my copy of Brian Sweet's 'Reelin in the Years' (a fun read if not exactly authoritative) which does indeed list Leeds in the 74 tour itinerary, but I'm not doubting that it was the Span that your engineer was referring to. Maybe you should have played a funky, Dan-influenced version of 'Gaudete' for him !

Also interesting to see in 'Reelin' that SD supported both Slade and Uriah Heep on early US gigs - now that I would love to have seen !

Yes, I know the Torrington in Finchley, and have heard of Rayners in Harrow. Let me know if you plan to venture south of Watford.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 12:56:17 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct,

Jaydee:

No, the "confused" Sound Engineer wouldn`t even have been born in 1974!! He was talking about much more recent years.

The Dan Collective haven`t ventured into "the Smoke" as yet, although some of us were involved with The Danny Steel Orchestra which "toured the southlands" quite regularly from 1996 to 2000. I seem to recall doing a place called the Torrington and another venue called the Worcester Park. Also, Rayners?? Can`t remember where any of them were, but certainly in and around London. Glad to hear you`ve had good reports from the far north - long may it continue I say!!

Anyhoo, if we get to your neck of the woods, I`ll give you a heads up, OK?


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 12:31:40 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

I disagree for a couple of reasons, not the least of which is the way she has the balls to use an acoustic bass in funky-pop music. The growl of the strings vibrating in the wood is such a welcome sound to hear anywhere outside of real jazz that she should get a Grammy for having the vision to do that alone. It gives that Keith Jarrett strictly natural sound element, but of course she uses the electronic rimshots too. Also the cleverness of her lyrics is unsurpassed. Some equal her, but none surpass.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 12:20:42 ET
Posted by: Bill, Pittsburgh

I just dug out a Horace Silver CD from 1997 that I hadn't heard in a while, at least not since EMG came out, and it struck me that the album's title, "A Prescription For The Blues" (with it's pharmaceutical-themed cover artwork) may have influenced a line in The Last Mall.

By the way, anyone else adopt that little ditty as their official holiday shopping anthem? That one and the late Warren Zevon's "Down At The Mall" are on endless loop in my mind's ear whenever I enter one of those palaces of frustration, usually against my will.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 12:08:05 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, get your dime dancing here

Pete, I have the album, and I like her Billy-esque qualities. She is definitely a true artist who respects music. However, I can't go so far to say that she, or any other current artist, equals the writing, production, or feel of the music of Steely Dan.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 11:54:48 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Peter - Ok, now that I realize you're being serious, no, I have only seen this lady sing a time or two on the tube. Peter, she wears a very large hat for whatever religious or cultural reasons and I respect that. (Call me closed minded but the darn thing is distracting to me in my myopic Western mind) Tell me what I kind of music I will hear when I play her latest.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 11:44:23 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Gretchen, Raj, et al. - if you're seriously trying to say that Baduism by Erykah Badu isn't one of the best albums of the last 25 years or so, I can only conclude that you have never heard it. Come on!

Don't you see that comparing Steely Dan to Kelly Clarkson or Beyonce is begging the question????? OF COURSE that's a joke. Don't preach to the choir. It's a different story, however, when an artist who is their equal is thrown into the mix. Come on!


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 11:38:05 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Peter Q, I think you better call Tyrone.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 11:34:02 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Rajah, you misunderstand. I am serious. Erykah Badu's disc Worldwide Underground is easily the equal of EMG - musically, lyrically, production wise, everything (just as her debut Baduism can easily, easily hang with Aja or anything else ever done by anybody.) Come on! I am dismayed by the lack of comtemporary R&B fans that seem to post on the Steely Dan boards.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 11:33:02 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, Snow watch patrol, reluctantly...

Joey, fear not, our yogis are perfecting the grace of Pixeleen to be played live on their next tour, along with, hopefully, Green Book. I'm being optomistic, in the face of this dark winter day, that the touring will commence again next summer...........
G


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 11:20:56 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Let's not forget two other Grammy Nominees which lend further credibility to the proud Grammy tradition: Kelly Clarkson and Ruben Studdard. Dats da shtuff.

Hey did Sting, that perennial Grammy darling, only get one nomination?


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 11:12:03 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" And all kidding aside, I will offer to you Loyal Ones, this track will stand as one of the best offerings they've given us ever. "

Amen my Rajah ..................................

A majestic track that should have been performed live this past tour .


Can anyone tell me why " Pixeleen " wasn't played live ?!?!?!

Please ................I's gots to's knows !

The Jacky !



Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 11:04:35 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

bassicinstinct

Thanks for confirming the perennial Steely Dan/Steeleye Span confusion that endures here in the UK. I don't think the Span were ever very big in the US ! However, didn't SD actually play Leeds on their 1974 tour? Probably not at a real-ale festival though.

So, you're in the Dan Collective - I've heard good reports from a friend 'up north' and will check you out if you ever get down to the teeming metropolis (I've seen 'the other two'). I also play (drums)for a covers band, but more Kylie and Robbie kind-of thing.

Just got myself 4th row seats for the Keith Carlock gig at Royal Albert Hall next May - at last I'll find out what the fuss is all about.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 10:57:25 ET
Posted by: Philippe, France

Hello there , just a few words to tell you that Sneaker, the band that had a first album produced by Jeff Baxter with a cover of "Don't let me in" by D&W, is rereleasing that album again in Japan, they also release a live album from that period, early 80's with the "Skunk" playing on it. More details at www.bekoamme.ne.jp/~takeito/hot.html

A la prochaine
Philippe


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 09:44:38 ET
Posted by: bassicinstinct,

Jaydee:

Did a gig with my SD tribute act (www.thedancollective.co.uk)at a venue in Coventry which shall remain nameless.

After the soundcheck, I was chatting with the in-house Sound Engineer and he was telling me that he had seen SD "a few years ago at a Real Ale Festival in Leeds" (??!!) and that he really enjoyed them. As we talked, it became more and more apparent that he was under the impression that we were a Steeleye Span covers band.

I can`t help wondering what he was thinking while we were soundchecking. He must have been a bitterly disappointed man by the end of the evening - I just did not have the heart to tell him LOL.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 08:38:14 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

I'm really rather glad that the Grammys have ignored the Dan.

Surely I'm not the only one who wants them to maintain their status as an esoteric, rather exclusive, acquired taste for the more discriminating, rather than mainstream music-industry fodder? Maybe I'm wishing away Donald and Walter's chance to maximise their income, but I somehow don't feel that that's their prime consideration.

Personally, I love the fact that 70% of the people I know (some of them pretty clued-up generally) have never even heard of SD - "Yes, I really liked 'All Around My Hat'" !.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 06:25:36 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

It's hard to fault the Grammy process when they gave 4 noms to an artist like Erykah Badu, who is easily the Dan's peer in almost every respect. It's also good to see a super deserving artist like Heather Headley get some noms.


Date: Fri, December 05, 2003, 06:17:03 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, is it snowing yet?

Skunk Baxter just had a birthday - nice link with lot's of Sd links:
http://guitar.about.com/library/weekly/aa061801a.htm


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 23:44:10 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Hoops - You make dee-lite and chuckles for da Turbaned One; hee actually laugh with glee at your Danny Award Noms. Well done. One critique: not enough Noms for SD (nobody's perfect).

Now how about: Best Soundtrack Accompaniment for Female Video-Game Queen: none other than our "Pixeleen."

And all kidding aside, I will offer to you Loyal Ones, this track will stand as one of the best offerings they've given us ever.

In this time of disenfranchisment, I ruuuunnn tooo yooouuu.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 22:23:27 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, walking on guilded splinters (OK, that's Humble Pie)

Who IS Fifty Cents, anyway?

Lonnie, I agree this Grammy nonsense is total BS. We are living in a very, very dismal state of popular music, one that I'm sure will be noted as such years from now.
Maybe I'm naive on the subject, but isn't there a way an independant academy can be formed, who judges not on the current pop trash but on real, intelligent music with quality that will endure? Although it may not have any creedence for years, down the line it would ensure a sense of integrity to the award process. Sort of a "Nobel Prize" for music. The Grammys should now be called the Grimeys. I rest my case.
G


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 22:08:52 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Rajah...I'll take a closer look at the Sinatra stuff. I actually bought one DVD...and played a trailer in the special features section that promoted the other nine (don't know if it's an actual 'set' or not). Did see one other in the store though...it was a TV show with Frank hosting and Elvis among the guests. Ever hear..might have been Joe Piscopo...doing Sinatra singing Under My Thumb ?


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 20:02:02 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Eryka Badu is as at least an original and important artist as Steely Dan, and she got four nominations this year, so that's good.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 19:55:30 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, at home in total ecstasy

Christmas came early here - thank you Santa!!!!!!


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 19:51:36 ET
Posted by: But, but, but...,

But, but, but...

LONNIE!!!????

WHAT ABOUT THE DANNYS?

SEVENTY nominations!

Not only that, we all will get invited to the ceremony!

Over and out!


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 19:48:17 ET
Posted by: Lonnie the Kingpin, Playroom

Aloha Kids,

Lonnie says the Grammys are BULLSHIT.

No nod to Steely Dan. Are you kidding me? I suppose Jay-Z and 50 Cent and the other rappers have it all going on over Steely Dan. What crap!!

Lonnie is disappointed.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 19:08:36 ET
Posted by: hoops@dandom.com,

The Danny Nominations are out:


[ PRESS RELEASE from the Steely Dan Fan Site, Dandom.com,
NOT in any way affiliated with steelydan.com]
12/04/2003

"EVERYTHING MUST GO GETS ***70*** NOMINATIONS!

http://www.dandom.com/thedannys/2004noms.txt

DANDOM.COM and the Greater Dandom
present
Final Nominations List

THE 2004 SECOND NOT-EXACTLY ANNUAL DANNY AWARD NOMINATIONS

A star- and sleet-filled romp underneath a ramp at Chicago's
dark and historic Circle Interchange--hosted by Jim McKay and
and featuring Larry, the Desplaines Avenue Wino--served
as the setting for today's announcement of the
2004 Almost-Annual Danny Nominations.

Steely Dan received a total of 70 nominations for their latest
and greatest efforts, "Everything Must Go."

'Everything Must Go" was nominated for huge awards like
"Album of the Year" and "Best Rock Album," as well as more
obscure awards like "Best Musical Album for Children,"
"Best Comedy Album," and in a new category for The Dannys,
"Best Polka Album."

This year's nominations are also noteworthy for it marks the
first time Walter Becker has been nominated as an art director
in the category of "Best Recording Package" and "Best Boxed Or
Special Limited Edition Package" ("Everything Must Go-Special
CD+ DVD Limited Edition" version).

Steely Dan also swept the video categories with all five of
their "Steely Dan Confessions" web-clips being nominated in
the category, "Best Short Form Music Video."

In the category, "Best New Musician appearing on a
Steely Dan album," newcomers--newcomers to Steely Dan albums,
that is--Tawatha Agee, Bill Charlap, Tony Kadleck, and
Walt Weiskopf all earned nominations, not to imagine the respect
and admiration of Steely Dan's fans.

"Blues Beach," "Everything Must Go," "Godwhacker," "Green Book,"
"The Last Mall," "Lunch With Gina," "Pixeleen," "Slang of Ages,"
and "Things I Miss the Most" were all nominated for the important
"Song of the Year." "Song of the Year" goes to the songwriters
--in these cases, Becker/Fagen.

Attempts to contact Becker and Fagen for comment would have been
made but, hey, they are on a much-deserved vacation,
blah, blah, blah...

The 2004 Almost-Annual Danny Awards will be held sometime in
the near future at a location (real, virtual or imagined)
that may be announced.

Check out the last Almost Annual Danny Awards at
http://www.dandom.com/thedannys.

Voting procedures in Danfan categories will be announced in
the near future. Keep checking back at
http://www.dandom.com/thedannys for the latest on how you
can vote.

=======================================================

MEDIA: For more questions about The Dannys,
please email hoops@dandom.com

By The Way:

Strangely, today another Awards event shut out the Beloved
Steely Dan in all categories after their previous achievement,
"Two Against Nature," won in four major categories, including
"Album of The Year." This page is intended as a
satire of this year's shameful, grand omission.

The Dannys and dandom.com and those who faciliate them are
in no way connected with Steely Dan.

=======================================================

--30--


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 18:28:10 ET
Posted by: hoops@dandom.com,

Rajah.
Even more shocking was how many Steely Dan fans had not even heard EMG was out even by the end of July. Sure, many of these are casual fans who are not as die-hard or are preoccupied with other life-situations. But these are people who, once informed of EMG, went out and bought it! And those are just the ones I encountered. Let's face it, the record wasn't promoted at all, and I'm sure it wasn't promoted for the Grammys either. Let's not forget how there were end caps of Eminem and other Grammy-hyped artists in 2001, but no copies of 2vN in stores, with it backordered for a while. How's that for blowing it?


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 18:25:16 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu,


Warner and Dan...seems like the End of Whatevah...

2005: new album, not under the title of Steely Dan but:

Walter Becker and Donald Fagen (Blue Note, Verve, or Independent Label)


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 18:16:15 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Mopster - I'm down with you. If this was a two or three record deal then what you say makes all the sense in the world. Maybe EMG was indeed the cleaning out of the cupboard and we are now all squared away and ready to proceed unencumbered. Somebody here a while back conjectured that SD probably had circa 250,000 fans worldwide. Don't know how those in the know would go about quantifying something like that, but if true, it seems like a viable number for a record-buying fanbase. If that's the case, they don't need no stinkin' record conglomerate. Onwards.

But if three years is a quick turnaround time between albums under the gun of Warner/Reprise, then how long will the next one take? Don't answer that.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 17:46:07 ET
Posted by: Firemop, Dallas, TX

"This is indeed the end of something: all relations with large record companies. Look for that jazz quartet CD from our boys in 2005 on Deacon Blue Records."

Rajah -

I think you are right on the money. These days it is quite feasable for D&W to go about making records successfully and profitably without a major record company. It is now a well-known fact that SD and Warner/Reprise are not on the best of terms and I think our boys can't wait to get out of their contract - if they are not out already. I think you can attribute the modest sales of EMG to the support of their fan base and internet marketing. I did not see much else in the way of promotion from Reprise. SD figured-out early on how to promote and market through the Internet, and now with the belated arrival of legitimate online distribution and sales outlets, the stage is set for them to ditch their record company.

<firemop puts flame-resistant suit on>
I will conjecture that all parties knew that EMG was produced relatively quickly (by Steely Dan standards) in order to fulfill a contract committment. I think it is quite possible that EMG was based on material that was already mostly done or "in the can" when 2vN was released. I am not slamming EMG - I loved it - but it clearly did not produce the sparks with the critics, industry people and record-buying public like 2vN. Steely Dan "just going through the motions" is still better than 99.9% of the stuff out there.

OK, I may be full of shit but I figured I would air-out this crazy idea anyway. You can flame me if you want, because I will probably be "powering-down to idle mode" and waiting patiently for the next big thing from two of the best musicians/composers on the planet.

-fm


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 17:30:31 ET
Posted by: Dave, The Mohel,

5 for TAN, 10 for EMG?

Agreed, Leo.

But guess what? Steely Dan.com says TAN only got 4 Grammys, which, given the farshimlt state of the Grammys, apparently means SD and EMG get shnaydered.

"See ya next year!"


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 16:49:04 ET
Posted by: Leo,

No matter what anybody says....
If 2VN got 5 grammys...EMG should get 10


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 16:48:46 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago, where it's sleeting

This just in:

The 2004 Danny Award Nominations (Steely Dan-connected Categories) will be announced at 5:00 pm local time (that's 6:00 pm in NYC, etc.) today.

You can count on the Dannys to recognize the genius of Steely Dan.

jim


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 16:38:34 ET
Posted by: Been there done that, Groovetime

http://www.steelydan.com/grammymemo.html


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 15:23:51 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Also interesting:

Warren Zevon's last album, "The Wind" nominated for best folk album.

Michael McDonald got two nominations. I love Mike McD's albums, and I have the Motown album, but I can think of other MMcD solo albums I prefer.

Dylan got a nod.

Noms for perennials Michael Brecker, Randy Brecker, Wayne Shorter, Dave Holland Quintet (is Potter on that one?), and some of the usuals.

I thought SD would at least get a nod for engineering.

Remember this?
http://www.theonionavclub.com/avclub3713/avfeature_3713.html


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 14:59:17 ET
Posted by: Blast from the past,

Date: Wed, July 09, 2003, 18:24:55 ET


The last album won the BIG Grammy. Doesn't logic dictate that they will pay it its proper obeisance?

--------------
Date: Thurs, June 19, 2003, 13:11:18 ET

I've been thinking about the issue of sales also. First, I'll state that I fully understand that Donald and Walter need to make decent sales numbers to continue to have label support and a financial incentive to do future projects. And yes, Grammy Awards and widespread popularity of the new album would be nice. But...

I think this is another case, as with other peoples' opinions of the album, that the public acceptance or popularity of the work should really not matter to me very much. I love EMG, that's what matters. If nobody else in the world bought the album and it was just me and the music, that's fine with me. It's cooler anyway to have the favorites in your collection be the same stuff that everybody has. Sure, everybody and their uncle says they like "Aja" or "Dark Side of the Moon" or "Kind of Blue", but I'm actually more impressed by people who like stuff that's a little less expected than that. If EMG ends up being a cult favorite among hardcore Dan fans, it just proves that Donald and Walter delivered a great album to those of us who "get it". And yes, there are lots of people who don't "get it" and never will. (Sorry to be harsh but it's true).

------------
----OR----
------------

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 13:13:38 ET

....but as far as Grammy's go, I'm protecting my emotions: I worry that Grammy Voters / Record industry will remember SD as the band that spoiled the Eminem Sales Rush that would have been enhanced by Eminem winning big in 2001. I really, really, really hope I am wrong, but I keep having a hunch that it will be like Paul Simon's "Rhythm of the Saints." I thought it was a better album than the superb "Graceland" which swept the '87 Grammys. Still, "Rhythm of the Saints" got skunked at the '91 Grammys. I have a feeling that Annie Lennox with Clive Davis will get a lot of nods. But as Donald says in the SD Confessions, "I'm suspect of my peers (when it comes to the Grammies)."




Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 14:58:35 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Fountains of Wayne for best NEW artist?!! They've been around for 10 years! Boool-sheet.

Is it out of the realm of possibility that Reprise didn't even submit EMG for categorization? We have a situation here where Time/Warner hates SD for not doing Letterman, Today, VH-1, Leno and A&E's Live Upon Request. Everything Must Go now takes on a whole new shade of meaning. This is indeed the end of something: all relations with large record companies. Look for that jazz quartet CD from our boys in 2005 on Deacon Blue Records.

Whereas the Grammies were universally decried for decades for not recognizing cutting edge new artists, then flirting for a while with Rap and Hip Hop but not really giving them the big general awards, they now seem to have jettisoned all reason and good taste(they know music lovers don't buy their jreck anyway) and filled the ranks of their nominations with this tawdry collection of screamers, moaners and posers and their mantras of murder, pimps and hoes.

I'm disappointed, I won't lie to you, but it only strengthens my resolve to not bow to their dictates.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 14:30:20 ET
Posted by: GRAMMY VOTERS@GM.COM, OUT OF STATE,OUT OF MIND

DAMMM

THEY SKIPPED DIMENSIONS

IN THE LAST 3 YEARS




Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 14:14:50 ET
Posted by: Zim, soon to be snowed under New England?

grammy-NOUN: Informal for a grandmother.

Gee, is there another definition for the word I should know, or care about?


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 14:03:19 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, Cuban Breezes (or Nor'easters) for everyone!

Considering the "nominees" for the Grammy's, with the exception of the jazz and classical categories, I feel it's more of a compliment that Steely Dan was not nominated! The Grammy's have lost their taste,and class, I'm afraid. Who needs 'em. We know what's good around here, so do Donald and Walter. I'm tipping my glass to everyone in Dandom!


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 13:22:08 ET
Posted by: The Oracle,

Again...the Grammy means nothing to Becker and Fagen. Why should it then mean anything to us?

This is not sour grapes. One Grammy was amusing. Two would be a sellout.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 13:17:25 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" To see the, ahem, complete list go to:

http://grammys.com/awards/grammy/46noms.txt "

WTF ?!?!?!

Steely Dan received NOTHING ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

This makes Joey weep and SH## liquid .

****** JOEY NOW GETTING UP FROM HIS DESK AND RUNNING TO BATHROOM ******





Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 13:09:10 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

The fix is in, we are a witness. The record companies are desparate at this point to plug that pukie product of theirs. So let's just stand in the shadows while they dance. Justin Timberlake is the One? Oy. OutKast? Help me mommy, my head hurts; make them stop.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 13:01:12 ET
Posted by: SouthOfHollywood,

To see the, ahem, complete list go to:

http://grammys.com/awards/grammy/46noms.txt


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 13:00:40 ET
Posted by: walk the walk, hof

mostly "top 40" popular nominees...a few nods to recently departed artists...mike mcD gets a nod for motown.

Who amongst us needs a grammy nomination to confirm our good taste?


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 12:58:24 ET
Posted by: grammy who cares?, paia Hawaii

Who cares about Grammys?


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 12:56:10 ET
Posted by: SouthOfHollywood,

Sorry to say that our boys have been SHUT OUT...Not a single Grammy nomination (not even for production!)...I hope I'm wrong, but I believe the list on grammys.com is now final and complete...Complete bullshit is what it really is...SOH


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 12:45:33 ET
Posted by: Crack Whore, 33rd and 3rd

Rap and R&B artists lead Grammy pack

Associated Press


Beverly Hills, Calif. — Rap and R&B dominated the charts this year, and Grammy voters took note, nominating Beyonce, Jay-Z, OutKast and Pharrell Williams for a leading six Grammy nominations each on Thursday.

Missy Elliott, Eminem, Evanescence, 50 Cent, Chad Hugo, Ricky Skaggs, Justin Timberlake, Luther Vandross and the late Warren Zevon had five nominations each.

Three of Pharrell and Hugo's nominations were for their work as the production duo The Neptunes.

Nominations for the 46th annual Grammy Awards were announced by a group of musicians including Sarah McLachlan and Kenneth "Babyface" Edmonds at a Beverly Hilton press conference.

Beyonce and her boyfriend, Jay-Z, were among contenders for record of the year for Crazy in Love, along with the Blackeyed Peas-Justin Timberlake collaboration Where is the Love? Other nominees were Coldplay's Clocks, Eminem's Lose Yourself and OutKast's Hey Ya.

Album of the year contenders include Missy Elliott's Under Construction, Fallen by rockers Evanescence, Speakerboxxx/The Love Below by OutKast, Justified by Justin Timberlake and Elephantby The White Stripes.

Evanescence also got a nomination in the best new artist category, which included rapper 50 Cent, the alternative group Fountains of Wayne, R&B singer Heather Headley and dancehall artist Sean Paul. Artists with four nominations included Erykah Badu, Willie Nelson, Jose Serebrier and Jack White, who had one individual nod and three for his work in his group The White Stripes.

The song of the year nominations went to Linda Perry for Christina Aguilera's Beautiful, Richard Marx and Luther Vandross for Dance With My Father, Avril Lavigne and the songwriting group The Matrix for Lavigne's I'm With You, Jorge Calderon and Zevon for Keep Me in Your Heart and Jeff Bass, Eminem and Luis Resto for Lose Yourself .


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 12:39:36 ET
Posted by: Joey ,



Still Betting on EMG as a lock for " Album of the Year " .


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 12:27:28 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Grammy noms are out and all I see are Beyonce and Timberlake with Zevon getting five. The whole list is not *yet* up at Grammys.com or elsewhere. Hope they will be up here or at grammys.com after lunch. Seeing Beyonce and Timberlake was a nice reminder for me not to take this too seriously :-)


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 11:39:28 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Spark -le of our China - I have only 3 or 4 Frank DVDs. You tell me there's a 10-DVD set? And they all have that same cover art design, the black with the red lettering? I didn't know it was a set. Another reason for Frank to hate me now. That recording of "Something" stands as one of the abominations of all time. Frank hated the new music of the British invasion and all that followed. Hell- he HATED Elvis. Mr. Sinatra jumped the shark around 1964 or 65. They say the last straw in his marriage to Mia was when he came home and she was playing "I Had Too Much to Dream Last Night" by the Electric Prunes on the turntable. FS went directly to the kitchen where Jilly was preparing the evening's pasta and said, "Jilly, it's over...handle it." Frank then walked out and flew to Palm Springs, never to see Mia again for many years. Hey, he had standards. Whadda guy. He did offer to break Woody Allen's legs for her decades later. My favorite pic of FS from the era shows him trying very hard in a Nehru jacket with medalion. Sad. But even when I last saw him in 1991, he could still sing the hell out of "I Got the World on a String," my fave.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 11:27:41 ET
Posted by: ancient mariner, sailing the waterway

Josey:
In answer to your questions about a 2003 tour DVD:
No, and no.

But we're all in the same boat.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 10:24:39 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Still Sparkin - since you brought up the GRP label, any of you guys familiar with the GRP Allstar Big Band cd's? There are some real burnin versions of tunes like Manteca, Blue Train, Seven Steps to Heaven, etc. They also have a cd called "All Blues" that has an incredible version of the title track. Worth checking out.

Does anyone think the Dan is aware of how bad we all need a DVD from the EMG tour? Is it healthy to want something this bad?


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 09:38:59 ET
Posted by: Leo, REMOVE

Peter Q - 300 pages of Meal Reviewer? No thanks.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 08:48:08 ET
Posted by: angel,

Heard at Walmart. Christmas/Holiday song selection is playing an IGY (What a Beautiful World it Would Be) cover. They just don't get it. ;-)
Spandex Jackets anyone?


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 08:11:03 ET
Posted by: The Oracle,

I wouldn't hold my breath about Grammy nominations for Becker and/or Fagen this year. EMG was a relatively poor seller, and regardless of what they claim, NARAS isn't about art, they're about sales. Period. Besides, Becker and Fagen have proven they don't need the industry establishment's approval. They can take it or leave it alone. Their fans should be able to do the same.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 05:41:32 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

DAN FAN NOVEL DOT COM is on the way!

www.danfannovel.com


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 03:28:52 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Rajah, have you seen the ten DVD Sinatra set ? Excuse me if I'm way out of date...but I picked up one the other night from a 1971 show. (Princess) Grace Kelly introduced him, so I guess THAT Royal Hall was in Monaco. Didn't run it through the big system...but the quality sounded quite good for the time...and the band was very smooth. I just keel over when he sings 'Something' (in the way she moves....JACK !)


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 03:24:24 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China


Might be tough to find, but the GRP label has a very worthy three CD set of Christmas tunes with some sort of predictable name. (hint..if you're looking they are green, white, and red in color). Great production and playing.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 02:09:37 ET
Posted by: Lutz, SF

Hey Rajah,
I am sure Frank will forgive you before Babsy does!
Rock solid comeback.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 01:51:52 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Lutz - I was being generous to Barbara and hideously blasphemous to Frank, its true. Now upon reflection, it shakes me up just as much as it does you. And it does taint my other drivel, rock solid or words to that effect though it may be. But worse than all that, somewhere out there, I know Frank is now pissed at me.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 00:45:01 ET
Posted by: Lutz, SF

2 very good new x-mas albums:
M.Franks "Watching the snow" - more jazz than x-mas, 5 stars for beeing the first ever w/o 'Little drummer boy" which is best left in its original version in m.o.
Yellowjackets "Peace round" really cool as well, jazzy-not cheesy.


Date: Thurs, December 04, 2003, 00:39:16 ET
Posted by: Lutz, SF

Hey Rajah,
so far I really thought many of your postings here were rock solid. But putting B.Streusand on the same level as old Franky hopefully was a (holiday spirit) slip!
If there was anyone who could make me walk out of a Steely Dan concert it would be her joining the boys on stage...
I got the Corea album w/ Colaiuta (rec. in 1992) on Amazon, japn import $ 36. It's great.


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 22:28:21 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, the green room

Anyone up for chat? The place is deserted.


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 19:00:22 ET
Posted by: ,

Jeff Baxter is 55 today according to the Miani Herald.


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 14:57:52 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" I say Album of the Year and some Pop Vocal Performance award. In any case, any nominations or lack thereof will speak volumes. We know how SD feel about the recording company establishment; we'll now see how the establishment feels about them 3 years down the road from the big "comeback." Not that any of it matters is what I keep telling myself. "


Agree my Rajah ........" Album of the Year " AND DEFINITELY " Pop Vocal Performance Award " ..........Oh Hell , throw in " Record of the Year " too ( Whatever THAT means ) ..................

God I love this band !

My tally : Seven Nominations in All !!!!!!!!!!!

Word !

Jacky !




Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 14:25:24 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Raj, your best bet is probably going to be audiophileimports.com. It's not an easy cd to find. And yes, your Italian brothers shine brightly! You won't believe some of the stuff Vinnie plays - I mean,it's just Vinnie being Vinnie - but still. It's sick!


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 14:15:10 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

John - Both of my Italian brothers on that Live Chick album? And you say they burn from the first bar? I gotta have it.

They probably won't even show if they're nominated. I wanna see one of the Eagles accepting the award for them.


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 14:02:00 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Has anyone tried Van Gogh vodka yet? If so, is it any good?


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 13:46:10 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Raj, been meaning to ask you if you've discovered Chick Corea's live trio in Japan yet? Chick, Patitucci, and Vinnie - and they flat rip from start to finish!
Re: the Grammys - I can't take them seriously anymore. I guess I could say that about most popular music today.


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 13:29:29 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Grammy noms come out tomorrow. Yeah, in many ways they are BS but anytime our boys get some kudos is OK witme. Another opportunity to perpetuate the legend. So here's the Grammy process from their website:

"Recording Academy members and record companies enter recordings and music videos released during the eligibility year which they consider worthy of recognition in the GRAMMY Awards process."

"Reviewing sessions by more than 150 experts in various fields are held to ensure that entered recordings meet specific qualifications and have been placed in appropriate fields such as rock, R&B, jazz, country, gospel, new age, rap, classical & Latin, among others. The purpose of screenings is not to make artistic or technical judgments about the recordings, but rather to make sure that each entry is eligible and placed in its proper category."

"First-round ballots with lists of eligible recordings in all fields, except those voted on by special nominating committees, are sent to voting members who return their ballots to the independent accounting firm of Deloitte & Touche LLP for tabulation. To help ensure the quality of the voting, members are directed to vote only in their fields of expertise, and to that end may nominate in the four general categories (Record Of The Year, Album Of The Year, Song Of The Year and Best New Artist) and in no more than nine out of 28 fields on their ballots."

I say Album of the Year and some Pop Vocal Performance award. In any case, any nominations or lack thereof will speak volumes. We know how SD feel about the recording company establishment; we'll now see how the establishment feels about them 3 years down the road from the big "comeback." Not that any of it matters is what I keep telling myself.


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 13:02:53 ET
Posted by: Connie, in the vineyard

My preference is Chopin Vodka - it's made from potatoes, not grains.

Cheers!


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 12:25:27 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Alas yon Gretchen! I too enjoy the Goose. Mainly for dirty martini's. I just started conquering the final frontier, which for me, was Scotch. Decided about 4 to 5 months ago it was time. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm going to have a drink in about 30 minutes. Thanks for the idea!


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 12:05:37 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, Frostbitten in my Ugg boots

Josey, Grey Goose vodka is so much better, though! Not being a vodka purist, I love the Grey Goose La Vanille. It's yummy.


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 11:32:40 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Princess - Thank you for coming out so bravely as a Barbara fan. I hid my love for Sinatra in shame and isolation for so long. It was tearing me apart...but now I'm free, free do you hear? So sing out sister - if you're going to that stony end, don't let them rain on your parade!


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 10:36:19 ET
Posted by: Josey, Atlanta

Is there really a place where you can buy a fifth of Absolute for $15.00? I might relocate.


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 09:37:34 ET
Posted by: rcray, nyc

Yes I have the Striesand CD. It is awful.

Bad sound quality and even worse singing. I mean to shine is a good song but nothing you would listen to more than once.

You can get it at Amazon.

You'd be better off taking your $15 bucks and buying a fifth of absolut and some cranberry juice and have a good ol' time.


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 09:29:41 ET
Posted by: Russ,

POC, yes the Barbara Streisand CD is not hard to find. A funny little addition to the SD collection. Back in the 70s Becker/Fagen said in an interview that the song was changed so much by the Streisand crew that they (B/F) almost didn't want to take credit for it.


Date: Wed, December 03, 2003, 00:45:04 ET
Posted by: princessofcairo, the yay area

does anyone own a copy of the album: barbra joan streisand which features the fagen-penned, 'i mean to shine?' i'll have to purchase one soon, if i can find it. i don't know if i'm more excited about owning a new barbra album, or about finding a new fagen tune...i know, i'm a sick puppy.

rockin' with rachmaninoff,
poc


Date: Tues, December 02, 2003, 21:36:59 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Horace Silver front line of Bob Berg & Tom Harrell

Bob Berg -----> his great CD Riddles featuring Jon Herington and Steve Gadd-----> SD loosely related

Tom Harrell ----> many years in the Phil Woods Quintet----> ditto


Date: Tues, December 02, 2003, 15:32:34 ET
Posted by: RCRay, nyu

I was just talking to a friend from college at a radio station in Michigan and he said that Steely Dan is often requested but underplayed because the playlists are created by the companies that own them.

He said their new album was well received by the DJ's but not "radio friendly" because of their format which is Top 40.

Steely is considered a Triple A radio format. He worked their when Kamakiriad came out and they played Tomorrow's girls quite a bit but he said the format has since changed and become more dance/alternative/hip hop and if you don't have that spin on your music you will most definitely NOT get played.

He also said that his collegue from Clear Channel said that they like artists that are in the news a lot and or controversial.

nuff said......Oh well, maybe Clear Channel will come to their senses and start playing real music again some time soon.


Date: Tues, December 02, 2003, 14:40:23 ET
Posted by: Russ,

Not too sure about that Ice magazine report, they typically aren't all that accurate, and having taken a look at the Web page for the label's DVD-Audio releases (http://consumers.umusic.com/dvda/releases.html)
it looks like Gaucho is still listed as "Coming Soon" but it's not listed with the other Dec. 16 releases...


Date: Tues, December 02, 2003, 11:39:11 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Gretchen - I might need Dramamine for Revolution No. 9. It remains one of the freakiest things ever recorded. Hold that line, darlin'.


Date: Tues, December 02, 2003, 11:30:02 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, December's foggy freeze

Rajah, might I suggest the 2nd LP from The White Album? Number 9, Number 9.......spooky.


Date: Tues, December 02, 2003, 10:29:49 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

I read the various DVD-A reviews of folks in here when EMG came out. I then heard 5.1 DTS at a buddy's house and it was just amazing. After that, I couldn't stand it, I broke down and bought the 6.1 DTS Onkyo system. Now I find it very difficult to go back to my old Surround system. Sounds dull by comparison. I only have a handful of DVD-A discs, EMG, TvN, Kamakiriad and the most incredible sounding Nightfly ever. Mamalusha, those shimmery sounds that open up IGY are thrilling, sound whips around the room, all I need is a disco ball. People hear it and it's invariably a, "whoa, dude" situation. Even the recent Allman Bros., Alison Krauss, etc. DVD concerts sound great.

I wonder what kind of crazy separation I could get (probably very uneven) if I hooked up my turntable to the DTS receiver somehow and played my old scratched up SD vinyl. Or Sgt. Pepper.


Date: Tues, December 02, 2003, 10:03:17 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Josey...overstock.com has a good special on Heavy Shift's The Conversation, but it's always on "Sellout Alert."


Date: Tues, December 02, 2003, 09:52:40 ET
Posted by: Rcray, nyc

I haven't really started looking for DVD-A/SACD as I don't have enough speakers yet.

I went to a local HiFi shop and they told me the most important thing to spend your money on is the speakers as they reproduce the music. Makes sense to me.

I do like the idea of DVDA and SACD. The Stones and others are rereleasing their albums on SACD which is a big push for Sony because they created it.

I will look into the toshiba and others and get back to the Bluebook with what I find.

The New York Rock and Soul Revue CD is one of the best sounding live discs I own and I could only hope the Dan release a live album with that sort of feel.


Date: Tues, December 02, 2003, 09:34:33 ET
Posted by: Josey, coast now, atlanta later today

Peter Q - I haven't ever heard of Heavy Shift. Appreciate the info as I'll be on the lookout for them.
Cubano Chant: I went searching for this gem all over the internet and actually found a few places where you can hear different takes. Seems like RealOne was where I had the best luck. I actually emailed Carlock to ask him what version he thought most closely resembled the version they learned. His answer was basically that he didn't know of the tune at all before they learned it for the tour. I'd love the Dan to do a live DVD of this tour just to get their version of that song! And also "The Steely Dan Show"! I'm fairly sure SD could do an Alvin and the Chipmunks tribute and we'd all argue the artistic merit of it all.


Date: Tues, December 02, 2003, 07:38:46 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Hey Jim with your Cubano Chant episode you had the kind of Steely Dan synchronicity someone here has posted about...


Date: Tues, December 02, 2003, 06:54:21 ET
Posted by: norm,

Horace Silver will be live in studio on Doug McIntyre's "Red Eye Radio":

Wednesday, December 3
12mid - 5am (most likely during the first hour)
KABC AM 790, Los Angeles
streaming on the net at http://www.kabc.com

The show format is "open phone" talk radio on the low-shrillness spectrum, but Doug is also a jazz lover who has had many musicians in studio to perform - Dianne Schuur, Jack Sheldon and Renee Olstead spring to mind - and even pre-recorded a home interview with Artie Shaw a few months ago. Should be worth checking out.


Date: Tues, December 02, 2003, 03:22:00 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

Can't hear Walter dropping his plectrum in 'Cousin Dupree' but hey I'll survive.


Date: Tues, December 02, 2003, 03:02:35 ET
Posted by: Jaydee, London

OK - true confessions time :

Sony Discman plugged into Sony amp (F110 - it says so on the front) and Wharfedale speakers (no idea what model). Works for me !


Date: Tues, December 02, 2003, 02:50:15 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China


RCray..don't know that I'm an audiophile, but here goes.

German-made components -- MBL -- amp, pre amp and cd player.

Martin Logan electrostatic speakers (Aeon model).

Altogether about $9,000 new, although I got the components from a friend for about half price. He was blown away when he heard his components with my speakers (he thought they were well matched) and still thinks there's room to get more from the speakers.

The Soundlab version of Gaucho is very clean...but so is the MCA 'A Decade of Steely Dan' (Gold Disc) and it's interesting to listen to the difference in treatment of Gaucho songs on Decade. So far as I know, Decade in the MCA gold disc format offers the best commercial CD recordings for anything off CBAT, Katy, and anything else that isn't Aja or Gaucho.

Would like nothing more than to find better recordings. Anyone ?


Date: Mon, December 01, 2003, 23:12:13 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

bwaySteve - bigStreet man, I truly appreciate your compliment back there, BTW, but ultimately, nobody could truly know this collection and all it's musical and literary tendrils, not even its progenitors.


Date: Mon, December 01, 2003, 22:30:22 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, Home at Last



Old news for some, new news for others (myself included).. an old link that cracked me up.

http://www.steelydan.com/deadtodan.html


KC


Date: Mon, December 01, 2003, 22:16:59 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Josey - another slammin version of Song For My Father is by Heavy Shift, on their CD The Conversation. There are I believe numerous versions, well over fifty.


Date: Mon, December 01, 2003, 21:09:21 ET
Posted by: hoops,

The latest Dandom Digest covering November 22-30 has just been emailed. Subscribers not receiving the Dandom Digest in the next 12 hours, should please email me. There have been a lot of issues connected with SPAM blockers and firewalls blocking delivery so please let me know if you have problems.

If you are a subscriber, please check out http://www.danndom.com/dandomdigest

In this Dandom Digest dated November 22-30, 2003 are the following subjects:

- When is the Next SD Tour? I can't Wait!!!
- Re: When is the Next SD Tour? I can't Wait!!!
- concert dvd '03 tour?
- re: What's Next? DVD?
- Re: concert dvd '03 tour
- ICE: "Gaucho" DVD-A due 12.16.03
- Rolling Stone's Greatest 500 Albums
- Re: Scrapple
-"Them's fightin' words"
- scrapple debate
-"Battle Apple"
- Steely Dan Rarities
- Re: Steely Dan Rarities
- Ancient geek re-wordings of Dan lyrics
- London Tribute Band - Stealing Dan (and Don) Tuesday 2 Dec

Thanks as always.

jim


Date: Mon, December 01, 2003, 20:35:47 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Rcray:
Thanks for the info. It's always very interesting. I was wondering: what DVD-A player and SACD player do you recommend. Any unit you like that plays both? I know Toshiba makes one but not sure what the latest model is like. The one Toshiba made last year was really versatile and great but pricey. I heard the new one that plays both SACD and DVD-A but is about $200-$300. What do you and others think?

A story I keep meaning to tell. Several Sundays ago, I had "Cubana Chant" stuck in my brain for hours. Not being able to listen to it, it was kind of weird after a while. So I flipped on the Sunday afternoon jazz show on WBEZ here in Chicago. Guess what what they were playing? 'Cubana Chant." I missed who the artist was, but it was a new version I'd never heard from the past year or so.

As far as SD.com's "power down" message, let's not forget that right after the 2000 EuroTour, the site also "dolly'd back and faded to black" for several weeks or so. Then it unfaded when the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees were announced, along with the Grammy hoops-la. So this seems almost routine :-) .

Of course, the key ¶ for me is "What will happen here next? Who can say.
We do know it will be different." Yeah, could be the web, could be what Donald and Walter have planned...but different is good!

Dandom abides...

jim


Date: Mon, December 01, 2003, 16:54:54 ET
Posted by: Rcray, nyc

Seeing as the dan is considered audiophile music by most people I was wondering if any of you have invested in a system that is considered audiophile?

My system:

1. Klipsch Reference speakers
2. Denon pre-amp/tuner
3. Sony 200 disc changer
4. Phillips CD recorder
5. Phillips DVD


I spent about 3 grand on everything.

It is not audiophile but is sounds great as does EMG and the rest of their catalogue on it.



Date: Mon, December 01, 2003, 16:50:38 ET
Posted by: Joey,

" A kind of cryptic message toward the future? Or have I just had too much tryptophan? I don't know, the lack of daylight is getting to me!"

Don't worry my Steelian Sister ................

The Dan WILL be back in a few months ( i.e. Grammy Awards ) !!!!!

Until then , allow me to nuzzle you .

Joey !



Date: Mon, December 01, 2003, 15:03:39 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, Abiding at my desk

Abide: 1.To continue to be sure or firm 2.To remain in a place 3.To put up with 4.To withstand. Synonym of "stay", implies continuing for a lengthy period.
Looks good for us, in my most humble opin.
Different? I was toying with thoughts regarding EMG while painting my living room. The title track begins with notes akin to the start of "Love Supreme," while "Love Supreme" was the track that began Coltrane's classic album. And of course, they do state that everything must go. Is this a sign they are going in a more Coltrane influenced direction? A kind of cryptic message toward the future? Or have I just had too much tryptophan? I don't know, the lack of daylight is getting to me!


Date: Mon, December 01, 2003, 14:30:54 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, @work


I do love the dictionary ( a necessity when deciphering lyrics )...

Main Entry: abide

intransitive senses

1 : to remain stable or fixed in a state


The message from the Drone is rather cryptic (imagine that) but my 2 cents is on the Dan rather than the site. They've always been exactly the same, except different, no? Either way it bodes well for the Dandom.

KC


Date: Mon, December 01, 2003, 14:17:28 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

"What will happen here next? Who can say.
We do know it will be different - - - but The Dan Abides."

Hmmm...I choose to read this as very hopeful. Different. The website? Or the Dan?


Date: Mon, December 01, 2003, 11:11:43 ET
Posted by: Josey, St. Simons island

There's a fantastic version of "Song for my father" by Michel Camilo. It's on a cd he did called "Thru My Eyes". It's basically his trio version of some classics like Night in Tunisia, Manteca, St. Thomas, Poinciana, etc. It comes with high recommendation! In fact, I'd say any cd you guys can pick up by Michel Camilo comes with high recommendation.


Date: Mon, December 01, 2003, 10:16:47 ET
Posted by: ,

From Steely Dan.com at http://www.steelydan.com/powerdown.html

The new CD - Everything Must Go - came out in June, the EMG Tour is over,
and now steelydan.com will power down to archive mode.
A kiss from Donald or Walter and these pages and will blink awake again.
Until then, we slumber.

| Our siteguide remains the best starting point for exploration and navigation.
We'll maintain our newsletter list and will send a mailing in the event of news.

| What will happen here next? Who can say.
We do know it will be different - - - but The Dan Abides.

>    >    >    >    >    >    >    >    >    >    >    >    >    >

SpamWhacking Note: Our email addresses have changed.
Please use the links on our contact page to reach us.


Date: Mon, December 01, 2003, 09:57:30 ET
Posted by: Rajah , L.A.

Horace Silver was indeed in the audience right down in front of Walter at the first Universal show in October. Seems like a million years ago. Walter acknowledged his presence and called him, "the great Horace Silver" Nice touch. He then almost launched into other intros of people in the audience (I'm certain Dean Parks and that whole crew was there) but then he stopped short and said, "there are many other friends in attendance but...well...you know who you are." How old must Horace Silver be I wonder?


November 2003 BlueBook Entries.




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