October 2003 BlueBook Entries

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 21:36:01 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Ktistec - Wow! I believe B & F were attracted to Warne Marsh because he and his mentor/pianist, the blind Lennie Tristano, were notorious recluses much the way B&F were said to be in the 70s. (D with the shades may be said to be emulating Lennie Tristano, though many people here seem to think he's going for the Ray Charles look.) I think B& F must have been in awe of the old Warne Marsh/Lee Konitz albums.

As a matter of fact a well known reference work says of Warne Marsh, " he preferred to perfect his playing in isolation rather than compromise with the commercial world of the jazz club." Sounds rather like who from the 70s?

And if I'm not mistaken B&F found Pete Christlieb in a TV show band.

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 20:27:09 ET
Posted by: Ktistec,

Greetings again from the UK. I thought I would let everyone know about a CD release here that may be of interest to some of you.

Some of you "collectors" are aware of an old jazz LP called "Apogee" by the Pete Christlieb/Warne Marsh Quintet, which came out on Warner Bros., in 1978 and was the first major record on which Walter and Donald served as co-producers. In fact, they composed a song for it called "Rapunzel".

Well, this wonderful "Apogee" LP has never come out on CD -- until now. Not sure if it is available across the pond in the USA, but I was able to pick it up at Tower Records here. There are some new liner notes by jazz critic David Ritz -- and best part, there are three previously unissued tracks included from the sessions. The notes include this from pianist Lou Levy who was part of the group, speaking of Becker and Fagen's role:

"They were around, but they had the good sense to leave us alone. They're fine musicians themselves, and they understood that, for this record, hands-off was better than hand-on. That impressed me, because when we recorded Apogee, Steely Dan was just coming off their hit album, Aja. Becker and Fagen were at the top of their game. You'd think that would make them arrogant or controlling, but it didn't. They just stepped back and watched. Naturally we were grateful to them. Without their juice, the record would have never come out on a major label. They were hip patrons."

The CD is part of the Warner Bros. Jazz Masters series, for those looking for it. The original 6 tracks were: Magna-Tism, 317 E. 32nd, Rapunzel, Tenors of the Time, Donna Lee and I'm Old Fashioned. The 3 newly added tracks are: Lunarcy, Love Me, and How About You?

I highly recommend this CD for all straight-ahead jazz lovers, fans of the tenor sax, and of course SD fans. Both Christlieb and Marsh are amazing saxophonists in their own unique ways, and this record sounds remarkable in full digital audio.

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 16:29:30 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Aww, shucks.

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 15:34:15 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" this is one of the best forums out there, the rajah has checked them all, lots of bright folks with actual knowledge, opinions and sense of humor in here, especially when we get rolling. Most know how to conduct a spirited but respectful argument ..... "

My Rajah ........................You are much loved by The Joey !

In fact , one of the main reasons why I read / post here at such a prodigious forum as the " Blue " is to witness firsthand your beautiful prose and smooth , witty and life-affirming dialogue . Indeed , whenever you write my Brother , the words flow like molasses dripping over metal tiles .............................I await your every word with Bated Breath .

-- Thank You !

The Joey !!!!!

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 15:18:06 ET
Posted by: Rcray, Weehawken, NJ

Just heard an interview with John Mayer on the radio and he mentioned how he liked Gaucho by Steely Dan and how they incorporated horns in most of their songs.


EMG = Album of the Year

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 14:40:59 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Oh, sure, just kiss up to Hoops ya big 'ol suck-up. Remember, nobody likes a brown-noser. (Hi Hoops, gee-willakers, you're a swell guy, smart & look young for your age, too.) But you are correct, Lurk breath, this is one of the best forums out there, the rajah has checked them all, lots of bright folks with actual knowledge, opinions and sense of humor in here, especially when we get rolling. Most know how to conduct a spirited but respectful argument, man I appreciate that. OK, I don't understand how you can't not like our Joey or Peter, my guess is that you're a very difficult person to please or you're just an ornery old poop.

Now anyone with a problem with the Rajah should immediately seek treatment. We love me, ahh, him, him I mean.

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 14:37:17 ET
Posted by: Loud Lurker,

"Still, Joey's posts can be pretty funny,"

That's your opinion

"The baby talk is an acquired humor I guess. I would leave if everyone were like Joey."

Ain't that the truth! I think most of Joey's posts are better suited for the yellow.

"Peter Q's a smart guy. I admire his knowledge."

Really? Listen, anyone that can say that Jeff Porcaro's drumming on Katy Lied wasn't that good or/ wasn't "some of his best drumming" have absolutly no idea what they're talking about! And they aren't very smart.

"Thank you, Hoops, the Blue is the best. Looking forward to more Dan talk."

Amen!

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 14:09:47 ET
Posted by: Quiet Lurker,

Just my two cents.

See the forest through the trees and this is a mighty fine place to talk Dan talk. But here's a few observations.

IMHO, Joey's also started a few snits too here, and is no Copi Annon or whatever. Still, Joey's posts can be pretty funny, albeit variations on the same theme. The baby talk is an acquired humor, I guess. I would leave if everyone were like Joey.

Peter Q's a smart guy. I admire his knowledge. But the way he posts is often arrogant. I heard in chat that you are a motivational speaker. I don't know if that is true, but the way you show boat, even if your posturing is some inside joke, can unmotivate me to post or at least roll my eyes. Steely Dan is witty but never arrogant.

Seems like a lot of Steely Dan forums end up in put downs supposedly passing as wit. But Steely Dan doesn't operate on put-downs. They use irony as wit instead. People really, really miss that point. The difference is like Dennis Miller versus Steely Dan.

But really, this place is light-years ahead of most every other Dan forum. I'm grateful for the focus and not hearing about others' car trouble or dogs or personal effects, Joey's bodily functions allowed. And while I thank Joey for his humor, how come more of you don't thank Hoops???

Thank you, Hoops, the Blue is the best. Looking forward to more Dan talk.

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 13:31:54 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

I would be Josie for this Hallow'een except for the fact that I have a 9:00 am art class at the Salmagundi club tomorrow morning. I am turning out my porch light at 9 goblins or not! Humbug.

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 13:06:20 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Got wit?

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 12:59:33 ET
Posted by: New2blu, Galts Gulch

I think Joey is the most insipid poster on this board. All of those bizarre comments and non-sequiters. What the fuck? Here's an idea, when you post some info or comments try to actually make a point. Anything that banal is enough to make people question the validity of Joey's posts.


Have a great day!!

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 12:53:43 ET
Posted by: Rcray, Long Island

The new issue of Stereophile magazine has a glowing review of the EMG DVD-Audio.

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 11:24:01 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, who's that kinky so and so...

Be careful "again" you might run the risk of being called ignorant and insensitive to one of PeterQs sock puppets!

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 11:11:22 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Who's Mr. Grumpy this fine halloween morning?

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 10:33:44 ET
Posted by: Again,

Joey- The nuzzle thing is getting real old.

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 10:03:44 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" I hearby proclaim Pete Townshend of The Who the greatist percussionist ever. Think of all those guitars he beat into the stage, amps, pa's, etc. "

I would like to nuzzle you .


Ah , I thought there were TWO degrees of separation between Kevin Bacon and Steely Dan .


Developing ..........................

Jacky !

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 09:44:39 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Who cares if it's jazz, jazz-rock, pop, whatever. SD is a unique brand of music we all love, and it's inspired many of us to delve into other artists and forms of music, and get to know each other! Call it what you want, for me it's the best - evahh. Happy Halloween! xoxoxo

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 03:38:30 ET
Posted by: perfectionist grace, scary degrees of sep

Doc Mu- Steely Dan only 3 degrees from Kevin Bacon? I bet there's a way to pare it down to 2, at least. My humble self, in fact is only 2 degs. from the illustrious KB and I'm certain many others here can claim the same. But your quip brought up a sobering thought for all to ponder(this is scary): I bet many of us are less degrees from Kevin Bacon than from Becker and/or Fagan! Alas, the poisoned slings and arrows of life.

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 03:10:03 ET
Posted by: norm,

Whitesnake
-> Steve Vai
-> Frank Zappa
-> Vinnie C or Victor Feldman
-> SD

Date: Fri, October 31, 2003, 01:48:34 ET
Posted by: Valery Valara, Ulapalakua

val valentino
oh where have we met before
numerous sunsets

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 22:38:35 ET
Posted by: Mstar, Marin Spin on the wash cycle (the one before rinse)

Two words 4 Rodney King on the yellow:

I love you!


Did I go over my two? Fiona I can't count either.

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 21:12:16 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu ,

Here's something scary: There are only THREE degrees of separation between Kevin Bacon and Steely Dan.

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 21:08:34 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu ,

PQ: lol, Jeff Porcaro's no Wilt Chamberlain, but he was partway there:

http://home.swipnet.se/ml/jeff.html


I don't know about you, but I'm rushing out to buy the Edyie Gorme album!

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 20:28:56 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, driftin'

From M-W.com:

Percussion: 1 - b : the beating or striking of a musical instrument.

I hearby proclaim Pete Townshend of The Who the greatist percussionist ever. Think of all those guitars he beat into the stage, amps, pa's, etc.

Dat's da facts, Jack.

KC

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 20:14:12 ET
Posted by: m star, marin county

Two words for Fiona


FIONA BOLONA

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 19:43:50 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Heh, actually Rajah there is a very cool six degrees of separation between Whitesnake and Steely Dan. Maybe Theron can share his knowledge with us.

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 19:30:38 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Peter - Any other big hair band confessions you'd like to unburden yourself of at this moment in time, my son? Motley Crew, Whitesnake, Poison and Twisted Sister are only a stone's throw from Van Halen, now don't let's quibble about it. A very short swim to perdition, so now's the time.

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 19:26:22 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Earl- didn't Bill Ware mostly play the vibes with Dan? I meant more like a perc. player with a huge kit, you know, like Airto or somebody like that with about forty different bongoes, congas, timbales, and all kinds of bells, shakers, maracas, tambourines, etc. I think songs like TOOM and Do It Again would be awesome with a player like that in the live band.

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 19:18:12 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Theron my child, do you not know that the Earl and I kid each other about being rock and rollers going back many many months in this forum?

I think perhaps you may have misread the post? You took "only" to mean "mere piece of dogshit" when what I meant was "the lone class of people who would define the use of a bongo drum as heavy handed." Earl seemed to have no problem understanding what I meant.

I'm a rock and roller too. I even travel to Phil Lynott's grave every year on the anniversary of his death. I once outbid 692 other people on Ebay to win an authenticated Eddie Van Halen guitar pick. The wonder of it all Theron.

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 17:47:58 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" We could date but the family might look askance. "

You make Joey giggle .

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 17:37:24 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Joey baby - you are the sunshine of my life. It's a deal, what the world needs now is more of me and you, God help us all. We could date but the family might look askance.

Nuzzles mi bro.

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 17:30:28 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" I love our Joey, peace-maker par excellance.

I call him Butros-Butros Joey! "

My Rajah ..........................if only we could have attended a Steely Dan concert together . What a BLAST we could have had that evening .

Here's hoping The Dan tour again next summer .

Butros Joe!

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 17:25:57 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

I love our Joey, peace-maker par excellance.

I call him Butros-Butros Joey!

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 16:56:50 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" That's why this music makes me proud. We all have diffrent intrests but are united by a genuine love for Steely Dan, so lets stop tearing each other down and instead built each other up by focusing on what unites us. "

Amen , I would like to nibble your elbows .

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 16:49:08 ET
Posted by: Theron,

Your right hoops, sorry for getting mad. So here is something a little more clever:

Donald Fagen founded the "New York Rock & Soul Review." Walter Becker played with it also. So I guess this makes both of them "rock and rollers" in that sense of the term. That makes me one also and I'm damn proud of it.

The point is it's a bit devisive to be labaling someone who makes a certain statement "only a rock and roller" because Steely Dan is rock and rollers - with jazz influance. I love rock, pop, or whatever you wanna call it. I also love jazz and rythem and blues - that's why I'm a Steely Dan fan. That's why this music makes me proud. We all have diffrent intrests but are united by a genuine love for Steely Dan, so lets stop tearing each other down and instead built each other up by focusing on what unites us.

T.B.

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 16:44:50 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Foul on Theron. Q is a compendium of the jazz knowledge. If anyone is going to accuse him of being an arrogant SOB, let it be me. Let's breathe.

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 16:31:22 ET
Posted by: hoops,

TheRon;

You probably have a good point. Too bad you invalidate it by getting all hot under collar instead of being clever, cool and funny. Looking forward to hearing more along those lines.

As for various arm chair rock and jazz critics (arguably including P-Q and myself), I think they have a weakeness for connecting dots that shouldn't be connected since we weren't there don't have all the "dots." I guess the idea is that if all dots are connected, we must know it all.

jim

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 16:16:41 ET
Posted by: Theron,

PERTER Q - Dude - your "only rock and roller" stuff is really starting to piss me off, and I'm sure a lot of other people too. What the hell do you think Steely Dan is? It is rock - with a jazz edge - but rock nonetheless. You don't know the first damn thing about jazz anyway, so take your "only a rock and roller" s**t and shove it!!!

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 13:14:20 ET
Posted by: Gaucho, 2nd Arrangement

http://www.cardiffrose.net/gaucho.html

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 10:47:40 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Norm - is 2vN, the song, influenced by Latin rythmn? If your defintion is chiefly centered around heavy syncopation, then yeah, love Carlock on those rims, he's awesome with that left hand. The tune itself never resolves itself into a true latin groove, it just sort of keeps rolling in that tension-zone with the chorus affording a brief respite. He seems to work the rims into a lot in the clips I've seen of his work with Krantz and that Noy fella. That stuff with him whacking the side of his floor tom with his right hand stick is OUTRAGEOUS! He craazy.

God, they need a timbales player who can slide over to a small vibes set-up. More chicky-boom, please.

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 08:34:53 ET
Posted by: norm,

On the subject of Latin beats/percussion in Steely Dan songs, I was surprised that no one mentioned the title track from Two Against Nature (or if they did, I didn't catch it). Would this one qualify as: "if Soft Machine played calypso"?

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 08:20:06 ET
Posted by: Dukie, DE

My last post should read "first couple of tours SINCE GETTING BACK TOGETHER." Just to be sure it's clear what I meant.

DOE

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 08:17:55 ET
Posted by: Duke of Earl, Delaware

Peter: Heavy-handed was a bit of a loose description. I don't disagree that fusion bands commonly have a percussionist, and even Steely Dan for their first couple of tours brought along Bill Ware. I guess I was just saying that typically they don't use the typical latin perc set to help give their songs a Latin feel. THey find ways through the other parts of the music.

DOE

Date: Thurs, October 30, 2003, 06:24:14 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Earl - only a rock n roller would call bongoes "heavy handed." Percussion is a fixture staple of the genre that SD is usually classified in, fusion or jazzrock or whatever word you want to use. We understand that very few of the rock groups you listen to use a percussionist; but be advised that virtually every fusion group does. And IMHO this last tour would have benefitted spectacularly from a top percussionist, like Marc Quinones from the Allman Brothers, jamming with Carlock. I don't think SD's recorded work would benefit so much from that but the live show would.

Mu - well, let's say conservatively that Jeff Porcaro played on 10,000 recording dates. The chances are then 1 in 10,000 that the Katy Lied sessions are his best work. Not very good odds. Especially when you consider that he played with real jazz players who really let him cut loose and swing (there's one Stan Getz album in particular which I lost at the rooster fights in the bodega's basement that I know I'll never find anywhere again that was great.)

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 21:28:14 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu,

Rajah:

E St.Louis Toodle-oo: (Gordon?), Yes (source: Decade)

Western World - Gordon? Yes (source: Decade

and FM is Porcaro. Yes (source: Decade)

And who is playing drums on Everyone's Gone to the Movies, isn't that Hodder? I believe that is Porcaro. Jeff played on all tracks except Any World where Hal Blaine was the drummer (source Katy Lied credits)


PQ: I must most humbly disagree with your assessment of Jeff Porcaro's drumming on Katy. I encourage everyone to check out the Your Gold Teeth II and Dr Wu outtakes from Andy's site to hear the tight interaction between Jeff and Chuck Rainey.

My favorite Porcaro track (tied with those 2 tracks) is Gaucho...the recaptulation outtro is a crowning achievement...

Black Cow is something - great use of space...I dig the funky I Got the News as well (Ed Greene I think?)

Vinnie delivered something special on Negative Girl, which is my favorite track for performances on TvN

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 19:58:35 ET
Posted by: SCOTTYA,

All this talk of drummers... don't forget Vinnie on Negative Girl..
FLAWLESS....

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 17:35:16 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Raj: What I heard was Hodder didn't play anything on Prtezel Logic. They did use a picture with him in it for the albums gatefold. That is kind of strange but on par with a D&W move. Jim Gorden didn't play on all the PL tracks. Jeff Pocaro played on some with Night By Night being on of the songs he definitly played on. The touring thing doesn't surprise me. The question is... if SD only wanted to go out on the '74 tour with one drummer who would have it been? Hodder could have been out.

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 16:44:02 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Leo - I tend to agree with you, that seems to be peoples' prevailing memory of events. With that huge database of material on Broberg's SD Database, there had to be some errors. Interesting that Jim Hodder played very little on Pretzel Logic, Jim Gordon did all the tracks, then he still goes out on the 74 Tour with them. What's clear is that choosing drummers based on their varying styles is so key to these guys.

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 16:26:43 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Raj: I'm no "expert" but I do know that Jim Hodder was let go right after Steely Dan's last show in July of 1974. He was never used again on record or on tour. The Katy Lied sessions were recorded in 1975.

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 14:57:00 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

I think the only way to tell is someone with great audio equipment which enables them to separate the tracks out and with a great ear for drummers, these drummers in particular. Mu & Q.

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 14:25:49 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Broberg's SD Database shows the two of them playing on Parker's band. There's also a discrepancy, apparently, with Hodder joining in on a track from Katy Lied but that'runs contrary to KL credits. Hmmm. We need an expert.

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 12:45:05 ET
Posted by: angel,

Mu: I thought Hodder played one set of drums on Parker's Band and Porcaro the other. He also toured with them in 74, along with Porcaro.
All Music Guide credits him for drums, not like that is the final word, but I have never heard that SD dropped Hodder before Pretzel Logic was recorded.

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 12:08:59 ET
Posted by: Adding to the percussion noise,

And who the heck is Starz Vanderlocket anyhow??

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 10:54:56 ET
Posted by: Steve Perry, Marin County, CA

Hi...I was looking for this crazy chick named Betty (aka rodeo girl, aka Morningstar) She's going on the Rolling Stones website saying Charlie Watts is stalking her. She went on the Eagles guest book and said Joe Walsh is stalking her. Then she flew to Iraq and told anyone that would listen that Cat Stevens was stalking her. Has she been here yet saying Walter Becker or Donald Fagen are stalking her? If she does, don't pay her any mind. SHE'S A FREAKING NUT JOB! But I'm sure you all knew that already.

Oh Cherry!

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 10:34:39 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Love the percussion discussion, chicky-chicky. Now you don't have to be a Latin player to play da Latin beats, no, but it certainly does lend the credibility factor, yes? I hear so-called Latin rythmns in Do It Again, Only a Fool, Rikki of course, The Fez, and My Rival. I wish they would hire a timbales player of note and really kick into some of the great Latin Jazz grooves. Their stuff could use it now, if I have one criticism about the last two efforts, it's that it doesn't make the people want to dance much. In mi countri, we dance.

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 10:03:16 ET
Posted by: Beerberian, @it

Could I add Walfredo Reyes to the A list ? Excellent work on Steve Winwoods "About Time"

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 10:01:44 ET
Posted by: kram, vt- dean....the only choice

when it comes to drummers..its totally subjective...nice 2 see that some people actually have a few good opinions and thoughts about what makes a good drummer tho...
i'm a lead singer/drummer which really helps my case- i play with about 5 different acts here in vt.. because of the ski areas in the winter and corp. funtions and weddings in the summer i can play/work as much as i want...altho i opt for my real job & family life over gigging these days
Max Weinberg is a hero of mine, i haven't heard his name much..he can do jazz gigs, rock gigs..latin- anything.. and plays way on top of the beat- but has flawless meter, so he kicks the band along nicely...plus he looks good for an elderly gentleman, and i'm sorry but looks completely matters...in everything...except maybe cyberporn

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 09:38:49 ET
Posted by: Beerberian, @it

Hey C ... give us a roll on these

Latin Percussion Tito Puente Thunder Timbs are extra-deep timbales with 15" and 16" diameter shells, and an over-sized depth of 10". They provide additional volume and increased bass tones. They can be used alone, combined with a set of Tito Puente Timbales, or as an addition to any drum set.
All LP Tito Puente Thunder Timbs come complete with a heavy duty, fully height adjustable, tilting timbale stand, a cowbell bracket, a pair of timbale sticks and a tuning wrench.

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 09:02:54 ET
Posted by: Duke of Earl, Delaware

While a few of the songs definitely take on a world persona, SD rarely went so far as to overuse percussion on their albums. I think that they tried in subtle ways to evoke images and thoughts of faraway places, but seldom came out and wacked you with bongoes or anything so heavyhanded. Probably the most blatent use of percussion on an album D or W had a hand in was not even percussion; the synth-marimba on The Goodbye Look gives you a great feel of the Caribbean, but it really was just a replication of the true sound.

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 08:36:24 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Really? You may want to view latinpercussion.com there, bambino, and see how many different sets of timbales they sell.

Yeah, A-list percussionist, Manolo Badrena, Mino Cinelu, Lenny Castro, Don Alias, Arturo Techboynaian, ad infinitum. That's exactly what I was talking about. Neither Will nor Victor listed the shaker as being their main instrument there, chico.

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 08:06:28 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Hey C, cite a couple of instances other than the timbales on My Rival and maybe a little on the first album???? I'm not talking about the credits on Gaucho for Crusher Bennett or EMG for Gordon Gottlieb; give me even a single instance where SD went out and got an A-list Latin percussionist like they do for every instrument they choose to use? On most of albums there is no credit for "Percussion" at all. What do you mean exactly there, cupcake?

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 07:39:56 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

IMHO Porcaro's drumming on KL was neither his best work personally, nor was it anywhere near the best performance on drums on any SD record. *That* was Black Cow, where the great jazz/funk drummer Paul Humphrey lets the upstroke stay behind the measure of his pedal, in a striking attempt at letting the tone of the rhythm section match the tone of the lyrical content of the song - burnt out, disgusted, weary.

Also at that time if I'm not totally mistaken Jim Gordon was also playing with Traffic on Shootout at The Fantsy Factory and Welcome To The Canteen, which explains the urban myth that as soon as he saw the charts for Rikki he started playing a Brazilian Beat. Traffic was using alot of Latin percussion then (something SD never uses, ever at all).

And the scrambling of the lyrics in Pixeleen is evocative of the way a movie goes through "development" in a studio.

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 07:23:59 ET
Posted by: Marjorie Morningstar*, Marin County CA

  Regarding hackers and stalkers
Subject: Re: NO, it is NOT acceptable.
Posted by: Towanda
Posted on: Thursday, August 14th 2003 at 12:16 pm
Thread info: 2 Replies, 43 Items in Thread
I had it happen to me a few years ago. I received email threats and other correspondence from someone in management with the rock group Journey (Journey happens to be my all-time favorite band and Steve Perry is my all-time favorite singer). This person not only slandered Steve Perry all over the place, telling me personal, intimate secrets about him and the other band members that NOBODY has a right to know, but he also stalked me on other web sites, sent emails and threats to me, (which I printed out and have a stack of over 120 pages to prove it), and then, as he promised he would, he sent me malicious code, and crashed my hard drive. I had my hard drive traced by some computer geek friends of mine, and they told me my hard drive crash did, indeed, come from malicious code sent to me through the Journey web site. Subsequently, after I pestered them all for several months about it, the guy was fired. He's currently been banished to working in Europe because he's been blackballed from working in the music industry here.

But, he's still out there and still causes other friends of mine, and fellow Journey fans, a lot of grief and harrassment. He may never go away, but stalkers CAN be stopped.

My advice: print out any and all correspondence that you receive, even if it's instant messages. Copy them and paste them into an email and send it to yourself, then print it, and keep track of all the harrassment with dates, URL addresses, etc.

Then, go to the police, like I did, and put it on file. If the damage done to you is $40K or more, the FBI also can be contacted, and they will investigate it. Once the information is on file with the police, a warrant can be sent out for an arrest, and/or it can be used in a court of law against that person later on. I learned all this when it happened to me.

Then, send all the correspondence to several other trusted friends around the country, like I did, and the next time you hear from that stalker, let him/her know that any further harrassment will result not ONLY in his arrest and prosecution, but all the emails he sent will be published by various friends in various states, on many other web sites.

That's how I dealt with it. You have the power to stop jerks like that. To this day, my stalker jerkfaced ex-Journey employee still harrasses other people, but when I threatened to PUBLISH all his correspondence on another Journey web site that I volunteer on, he stopped bugging me.

I still love Journey and the music of Steve Perry, and this one human being will never take that away from me. Don't give anybody that power over you. no matter what.

As a matter of fact, I met with Journey's road manager in June and told him of this incident. He was suddenly my bestest friend after I explained I had evidence against the management of the band, and would use it if necessary. :)

And in a related note, last weekend, I met and interviewed Gregg Rolie (founder of Santana and Journey) and Kevin Chalfant (lead singer of The Storm), who are both related to Journey.......I met Mike Carabello also, who is in Gregg's band, and is also a founder of Santana. It was VERY cool, because THEY are both Rock-N-Roll Hall of Famers, but THEY treated me with kindness and respect. It's a shame that Journey's management couldn't do the same.

The losers who stalk and harrass people on the internet are sad human beings who need to feel what little power and self esteem they can from the abuse they cause others. Decent people, whether famous or not, don't feel the need to do such things. You have the power to make them stop. Use it.

Love, Becky
"What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls a butterfly." --Richard Bach

Date: Wed, October 29, 2003, 05:41:16 ET
Posted by: ONYE ORI ABIDJAN, ABIDJAN

I DON LANDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKEEPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 23:56:21 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Raj: Hodder didn't play on Katy Lied. I think Porcaro played on every cut but one. Hal Blaine played on 'Any World' Not 100% but I think so.

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 23:35:43 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Thanks Mu very instructive - now how about E St.Louis Toodle-oo (Gordon?), Western World - Purdie w/Gordon? and FM is Porcaro. And who is playing drums on Everyone's Gone to the Movies, isn't that Hodder?

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 22:52:33 ET
Posted by: wormy, new orleans

so who's in the running for Grammy album of the year in 2003

yes Steely Dan will get a nomination

also
Radiohead - Hail To the Thief
maybe Lucinda Williams
out next week Sarah McClachlan's new disc
longshots - Fountains Of Wayne, Neil Young
I'm sure I am leaving a few out

tom

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 22:32:53 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu, errata

Through With Buzz:

Jim Gordon

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 22:31:32 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu,

Rajah: I don't think Hodder played at all on Pretzel contrary to popular belief. Personally, Jeff Porcaro is my favorite Steely Dan drummer over the long haul. He grooves, fills, and interacts with Chuck Rainey very nicely. Hal Blaine has a more impressive resume (Beach Boys, etc.) and Gordon set a great groove. Gadd is perfect for Aja and TWM...

This is the best info I have so far on who played where after Hodder (CBAT, CTE) and before the song-by-song credits of Aja, Gaucho...a couple are questionable but it's close

PRETZEL LOGIC

Rikki Don’t Lose That Number:

Drums: Jim Gordon


Night By Night:

Drums: Jeff Porcaro (i'm confidant of this)


Any Major Dude:

Drums: Jim Gordon

Barrytown:

Drums: Jeff Porcaro (this could be Gordon)


East St. Louis Toodle-oo

Drums: Jim Gordon


Parker’s Band:

Drums: Jim Gordon (right channel) & Jeff Porcaro (left channel)

Through With Buzz:

Orchestration by Jimmie Haskell


Pretzel Logic:

Drums: Jim Gordon

With a Gun:

Drums: Jim Gordon

Charlie Freak:

Drums: Jim Gordon

Monkey in Your Soul: (a very underrated song)

Drums: Jim Gordon

KATY LIED

Black Friday:

Drums: Jeff Porcaro

Bad Sneakers:

Drums: Jeff Porcaro


Rose Darling:

Drums: Jeff Porcaro


Daddy Don’t Live in That New York City No More:

Drums: Jeff Porcaro

Doctor Wu:

Drums: Jeff Porcaro

Everyone’s Gone to the Movies:


Your Gold Teeth II:

Drums: Jeff Porcaro

Chain Lightning:

Drums: Jeff Porcaro

Any World (That I’m Welcome To):

Drums: Hal Blaine

I think Jeff stayed out way too late one night


Throw Back the Little Ones

Drums: Jeff Porcaro


THE ROYAL SCAM


Kid Charlemagne:

Drums: Bernard “Pretty” Purdie

Caves of Altamira:

Drums: Bernard Purdie


Don’t Take Me Alive:

Drums: Rick Marotta

Sign in Stranger:

Drums: Bernard Purdie

The Fez:

Drums: Bernard Purdie

Green Earrings:

Drums: Bernard Purdie

Haitian Divorce:

Drums: Bernard Purdie

Everything You Did:

Drums: Rick Marotta (unsubstantiated but Rick has less shuffle but is more crisp)

Royal Scam:

Drums: Bernard Purdie

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 21:41:12 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Re Pat Metheny, tangentially Steely, his first drummer Danny Gottlieb plays with Walt Weiskopf sometimes. I have never heard cymbal technique quite like Gottlieb's. Paiste and Zildjian are at each other's throats to get his endorsement; Premier drums lured him away from Ludwig. Sorry for the digression.

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 21:02:40 ET
Posted by: WuDuF, bethel

Bruce Hornsby is a talented and prolific musician. The Harbor Lights cd actually had Bobby Weir from the Dead (not Jerry). I have a video of Hornsby, Metheny, Weir and Raitt performing some of that material. It was a wonderful project. I'm going to see Pat Metheny next wee, at the Bushnell in Hartford. He used to have Steely Dan songs playing prior to his performance. It will be interesting to see if he still does.

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 21:01:11 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Peter Q: true about Hal. His bio is unreal!

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 20:15:31 ET
Posted by: Lutz, SF

Hey Bruce,
at first you don’t like Becker. Then the SD show in Vegas didn't cut it for you.
I was there and compared it to 3 Ca. shows I was at. It was a great show, maybe a little more businesslike.
Sting stinks and so does the Police- according to your world.
And they didn't get along? What a shock!
(Miles liked Sting and said so-called 'Nothing like the sun' a motherfu..er album) and so does McLaughlin).
Then Las Vegas sucks, although you've lived there for 20 years.
I would really like to know what kind of monster gig you've got going!
At first I guessed security guard in one of the casinos, you see the stars and know you won't be one of them. But Lounge Player is even better,(not that it's not a respectable job) What lounge and what Monday of the month? I had to think of the Blues Brothers sideman band when the boys were in jail...
Another case of a disgruntled player who didn't make it.
My point is, don't blame everyone else for your life, and don't be such a negative girl, this board is supposed to be a psotive medium for SD fans.

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 20:08:52 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Hal Blaine is by far the most accomplished drummer who ever played on an SD track, is he not????

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 15:46:28 ET
Posted by: angel,

There have been banners up all around the Los Angeles area, for the past 2 weeks, mentioning a new art exhibit on Buddhism. Every time I see it, Do it Again and Bodhisattva go through my mind. I guess I am not the only one....

http://u.redlandsdailyfacts.com/Stories/0,1413,217~24253~1718137,00.html

"Yet, even though many Buddhist terms have passed into American popular culture Jack Kerouac named a novel "The Dharma Bums,'' Steely Dan a song "Bodhisattva'' the religion's complexities aren't always as easy to comprehend as the curators believe. Or wish."

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 15:13:59 ET
Posted by: Rcray, NYC

Wasn't Ricky Lawson the drummer for the Yellowjackets?


Porcaro rocked but I like the confidence of "pretty" Purdie.

All of that being said, Carlock has so many great years ahead of himself...that hopefully he finds himself on a fagen solo album soon.

Good luck in Cali!

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 13:42:23 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Raj;

Not really replying to your comments from before so much as I've heard this in chat, etc. Thanks for bring so cool with the thorough explanation.

jim

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 13:31:17 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Hoops - I didn't mean to draw a comparison between the two of them in the context of Porcaro's lifestyle, certainly not. Just interesting the way SD find drummers and bring them along, then part ways and begin the process all over again. It must be difficult in a sense to work with these guys for a while cause you must always feel like a hired gun, never truly in on any, shall we say, creative decisions. Interpretive decisions, yes, but never any kind of proprietary feeling about the tunes. I don't know that I'm making myself totally clear on this point. Anybody know what I'm trying to say? SD is like finishing school for great musicians.

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 13:13:38 ET
Posted by: hoops,

I found out last night that the home of Dan "The Barfmaster'" (the guy who helped me get some of the Digest technical details worked out in '93") burned to the ground in San Diego county. Ed's home is nearby too.

I've done some volunteer work with some 12 step programs, although never gambling recovery.

I think it's great we touch on these topics, otherwise things get too one-dimensionsal. At the same time, I would hope that they don't replace SD , tangentially related music (the Sting thread was great), SD-inspired humor and trivia as the very main purpose of this place. That's what historically has made the BlueBook unique and made for a reason to start another forum.

I'm not sure what's up for Steely Dan yet, but as far as Grammy's go, I'm protecting my emotions: I worry that Grammy Voters / Record industry will remember SD as the band that spoiled the Eminem Sales Rush that would have been enhanced by Eminem winning big in 2001. I really, really, really hope I am wrong, but I keep having a hunch that it will be like Paul Simon's "Rhythm of the Saints." I thought it was a better album than the superb "Graceland" which swept the '87 Grammys. Still, "Rhythm of the Saints" got skunked at the '91 Grammys. I have a feeling that Annie Lennox with Clive Davis will get a lot of nods. But as Donald says in the SD Confessions, "I'm suspect of my peers" (when it comes to the Grammies).

I see the connection between Porcaro and Carlock in that they are youthful, versatile drumming "monsters." And granted for any musician the road can still be awful. (Heck, I only *attended* a dozen shows and I got sick of the hotel scene). But, IMHO, I hate to even give energy to such comparisons of what happened to JP. Granted I've only met Carlock casually a couple of times (as have more than a few us thanks to the LBB Danfest) and I am struck at how sharp he is, how together he is and how career focused he is. This is not some guy along for the sex, drugs, women and rock and roll. This guy has his shit together behind the drums and outside of that too.

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 12:53:07 ET
Posted by: Abu2,

My thoughts go out to California,though not in the dreaming sense. I remember I rode my bike down Marlborough Terrace a yr after the Oakland Eastbay Hills fire of 1991. I was amazed at the devestation,and also marvelled at how narrow the roads were up in that area. As I recall, a lot of Eucalyptus trees went up like a tinderbox in the region around Temescal Park. One saving Grace was that it didn't get as far as Rockridge and the College Avenue area. Still,I hope the winds will die down, and you guys in the Southland will get a break soon!

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 12:19:51 ET
Posted by: Bruce Mills, Vegas

Re: Peter et al

Why incorporate in Nevada?
I thought the best state for incorporation was Delaware. No?
And as far as gambling, well, that's one way of looking at it.
There is a blindness about statistics, and a lot of superstition prevalent. The concept of "Luck" runs throughout the illness,
and it is certainly a psychological illness.
Certainly one of the worst addictions that abound in our society, in that it can put you down on skid row faster than anything else.
I don't claim to even partially understand the psychodynamics of gambling, but I went once with a buddy to a Gamblers Anonymous meeting.
I heard one guy say how they really hate to win!
He told a story about how it was late, about 4:00 A.M., he had lost almost everything, and he was getting ready to leave. Suddenly he won a big jackpot and he was horrified because now he would have to stay in this hellish environment (to him) and slowly lose the rest.
I guess they just can't walk away.
I've seen marriages break up dozens of times and people leaving town totally broke. Sure, they're mathematically ignorant, but it's much more than that.
And by the way, Casinos spend millions of dollars on psychologists who tell them the right colors, the right music that should emanate from the slot machines, the exact environment that will keep people gambling. How's that for corporate greed and inhumanity?

-Bruce

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 12:17:36 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

I just hope that carlock doesn't go the way of Porcaro cause he kind of fits that pattern. SD tracked Porcaro on one track onf Pretzel Logic then he proceeded to do all of Katy Lied. Ditto Keith on 2vN then taking over on EMG. I guess Porcaro got a ground floor deal with Toto that he couldn't refuse so he skipped dimensions. Now that Keith has graduated to the elite we may see him bolt.

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 11:53:30 ET
Posted by: Beerberian, @it

But ALL tracks on Plush ..........

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 11:47:53 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Strangely enough, he appears on only one cut of 2vN.

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 11:42:27 ET
Posted by: Beerberian, @it

Ricky Lawson ??

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 11:35:35 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Poltergeists is all I can think of: Jim Hodder 24 tracks on 4 albums, Jeff Porcaro 12 tracks on 3 albums (plus FM), Jim Gordon 11 on 1 (plus Western world)), Bernard Purdie 10 on 2 (plus Western World), Keith Carlock 10 on 2, Rick Marotta 5 on 3, Steve Gadd 4 on 2.

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 11:30:32 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Sorry, cut myself off (ouchie). Here's my chart (I'm sooo proud of it, can't vouch for it's completeness, though):

Hodder

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 11:25:52 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Gretch - thanks for your solicitude. We've been through everything out here: riots, quakes, el nino, draughts, recalls, strikes and now: the house on fire. The only thing we'll never get over is SD pulling up stakes and hightailing it outta here 25 years ago. It's beautiful out here but it can and has driven lots of folks nuts (mostly Easterners) over the years. It takes a certain, what I call, "last stop" mentality to live in this town. An apocalyptical bent. Let the end come, as long as it's 80 and blue skies. The weather can be an anesthetic out here, except when mother nature turns of course.

So as Rome burns, I turn my attention to how many drummers the boys have gone through over the years and, you know, it really isn't that many? Or at least not that many that got onto the disk:

Hodder

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 10:18:08 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Yes Leo, about 700 times. All my clients incorporate in Nevada, like everybody else who knows anything about incorporation laws. Very very few people who don't have a get rich quick mentality get sucked in by casinos.

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 09:43:53 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, the room at the top of the stairs

To all our Cali friends, please be safe! Let us know you are all OK.
Thoughts are with all of you. xoxo

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 09:30:44 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Peter Q: Have you ever been to Las Vegas?

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 07:36:00 ET
Posted by: BillyR, StLouis

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! To my FAVORITE SteelyDanFan....There is no other like you Chery.

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 07:11:10 ET
Posted by: Shotan, England

LIVE MUSIC AT THE COORS BASS MUSEUM
Horninglow Street
Burton Upon Trent
Staffordshire, England

Following the resounding success of their concert in May, THE DAN
COLLECTIVE return to the museum on Friday 7th November for more of
the same! Don't miss this great chance to enjoy their stunning, all
live, 2 hour revue of the great music of Steely Dan.
"close your eyes and you'll be there, it's everything they say..."

Tickets cost £5.00 and are available from the museum reception, the
band direct, or on the door.
tel: 01283 513501 (10am - 5pm)
out of office hours tel: 0845 600 0598
Doors and bar open at 7.30pm.

For further information visit
www.thedancollective.co.uk
www.bass-museum.com
or email
(NOSPAM)ian.monckton@c....

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 06:35:26 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Come on you guys knocking Vegas! You sound like the 400 lb. teenagers that sue McDonald's for making them fat. Nobody forces you to go into the casino to gamble, and anyone who gambles has a moron lottery mentality anyway and believes the universe doles out free lunches. Sorrrrrrry! Gambling is a tax on people who are really poor at math, just as the lottery is.

And since we're on the subject, many characters in Steely Dan lyrics have extreme unease with money and financial transactions and tend to view almost everything as either 1) gambling; or 2) corruption and cheating, the media "corporate greed" myth. Although money, and frustration with money issues, is very rarely explicitly mentioned it saturates many of the songs the way humidity or smog hangs in the atmosphere, not visible but to devastating effect. From the very first album the gambling theme is introduced (Do It Again) - ditto the person who sucks all the money out of our poor protagonist's wallet (Reelin' - "I spent alot of money..." etc.) Even Dirty Work ("TImes are hard"). This continues on throughout every single album.

Date: Tues, October 28, 2003, 02:52:02 ET
Posted by: Theron,

When do they anounce that EMG is up for Grammy Awards? I can feel it -I'm telling you.

*Album of the year
*Everything else from 2000
*Other awards

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 23:55:54 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Bruce...re: Hornsby

I don't have much but picked up an album recently called 'Spirit Trail' (1998). Some great tunes...my favourite is track #4 King of the Hill. It's rythymically complicated in places and bursting with energy. Great piano playing. I see you play guitar. There are six guitar players credited on this album...but I'm usually hearing the piano more.

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 22:47:54 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu ,

Yeah, Dave Brubeck and Paul Desmond thought it was funny, but not the hundreds of musicians' corpses outside Frank Zappa's studio, who could hack it...

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 21:38:56 ET
Posted by: Bruce Mills, Vegas

Re: Leo et.al,

I couldn't have said it better, Leo.
This is a greedy, malicious town, that wreaks havoc with so many people's finances, I cannot even begin to tell you!
Thank goodness I don't gamble one iota, but I've seen those unfortunates who consistantly lost their checks in one night and were asking to borrow money the following day. Of course I turned them down because I knew I would never see it again!
With the trillions of dollars they make, do the casinos have programs for compulsive gamblers, even the most meager? No, absolutely nothing! In fact, they won't even admit a problem exists! Outside sources estimate there is a substantial problem among residents, though.
You lose ten thousand dollars and they give you a free meal and a free nights stay. Then they kick you out. What a bunch of swell guys!
I've heard that in the Bahamas, the residents are prohibited from gambling. The casinos make their revenue solely from tourists.
Ideally, that's the way it should be here, although "if I bet that would happen, I would surely lose."

-Bruce

P.S. Sometimes you can get booked for a year or more in the lounges.
That's what thy must have meant when they said they were "the house band.
Actually they're just independent contractors. They have no affiliation with the hotel as far as benefits go. They won't even give you the leftover food in the commisary that the other employees get... not that I would actually want it!
Yes, it was VERY different here years ago. Some of the best musicians
in the world resided here 'cause it was so "music friendly."
Now it's tough just to make a living wage. You invariably have to supplement your playing with teaching, as I do.

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 20:44:55 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

From that Toth article: "I feel like I could say certain things around this person and not be fearful of offending them or being misunderstood. After all, if they 'get' Steely Dan, they must be relatively hip to my sensibilities."

I certainly would hope so.

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 19:25:10 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Right but since you brought it up I qualified my original remark w. "if I recall correctly."

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 19:23:53 ET
Posted by: Leo,

Here is the link. It's a good read for a Steely Dan fan.

Peter: Thanks for reminding me of this article!

http://www.steelydan.com/toth.html

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 19:17:23 ET
Posted by: Leo, oh yeah.....

Peter Q: Yes I did see that. But that had nothing to do with Metal Leg.

That article never made the Wall Street Journal. I read that when it didn't make it to press it was given to Steely Dan dot com to be put up on their site. No big deal.

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 19:12:32 ET
Posted by: Leo, Not Vegas

Bruce: I don't play. I was in Vegas a few months back. I think it was at Caesars. I was watching this really good jazz trio. It seemed these guys had had the gig for a long time. Could have sworn they said they were the "house band".

With all that money in those casinos it's hard to believe they would rather not pay the bands and go with canned music instead. That really does suck.

Sorry to hear how Vegas has changed for the worse. I think it's gotten way to popular over the past 10-15 years. A lot of down and out people run there to find their fortune. I don't think I would want to live there. Good luck!

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 18:54:06 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Leo my man, see the article by Robert J. Toth on the SD official site. Hoops and Granatino are quoted at some length.

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 18:43:32 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag,

Shout outs to South Of Hollywood and other Dan fans in the San Diego and Los Angeles area. Hope you are all safe and sound with all the wild fires that are raging!

Here come those Santa Anna winds again (an SD lyric you probably don't want to hear right now).

Be Safe!

Mark in Boston

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 12:13:23 ET
Posted by: kram, vt- go dean go- win dean win

if i can name drop w/out pissing anyone off- we use to play alternate weeks with hornsby's trio in V-Beach at a place called the cave (not sure what it is called now) - his brother played bass and molo on drums- the real plus is he loved our band, and was a very gracious and unassuming guy- and the trio was obviously destined for great things, they had it all going on- we on the other hand lost our management and fell into heavy drug use...go figure
- back to dan related- carlock is a lucky son of a B to get a sting tour-that is just as big as dan- very heady stuff for such a young guy-he must be peeing himself......

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 11:12:56 ET
Posted by: Bruce Mills, Vegas

One more thing:
I know this is Dandom, but others have brought up The Police.
Is anyone into Bruce Hornsby?
I recently played the Harbor Lights CD and was reminded of what a great writer, singer and pianist he is. And one who hasn't nearly gotten the amount of credit he so richly deserves.
He's got Pat Metheny on guitar, Bonny Raitt on backup vocals and the late Jerry Garcia on guitar as well. What a great album, sort of like James Taylor on steroids:-)(totally joking)
I'm not familiar with the rest of his catalouge, but I'm gonna find out asap!
-Bruce

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 11:03:10 ET
Posted by: Bruce Mills, Vegas

Re: Leo

I play the lounges up and down the strip with a jazz group consisting of me (guitar,)keyboard, chic singer, bass and drums.
As you may or may not know, this used to be a great town for musicians. Every hotel had it's own "house band" and every show used one.
Then in the mid eighties, the hotels decided to fire their house bands and go to canned music. There was a long strike and we lost.
Now there are no more house bands, and consequently, much less work.
The union remains, but it's virtually worthless.
Many, many great musicians left this town then, but I stayed due to my wife's pension concerns.
Actually I would love to leave this pathetic, vulgar city.
It used to be like a small town 20 years ago. No traffic, it was great. Now it's like L.A. East with gridlock everywhere.
There's terrible air pollution too, just like Denver, with the mountains holding in all the volatile gasses due to their proximity; Sort of like a sports arena surrounding the valley circularly.
Do you live here too, and play?
-Bruce

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 09:44:56 ET
Posted by: Abu2,

"anyway,there is too much material on this subject to put it all in Fever Dreams."

...and this is one of many things that fascinates me about SD- even the tip of the iceberg reveals more crevasses,conundrums and moribund turns into dark interiors. Another metaphor,and this one perhaps a bit of a stretch, is of a house of illusions,such as Winchester Mystery House: 'do these stairs really lead up? Is the passageway I'm about to traverse an entrance to another chamber,or in fact,an exit to the outside without the expected landing?'

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 08:43:57 ET
Posted by: Leo,

One thing about Carlock playing with Sting:
He'll get laid a lot more on the road with Sting then he would/did with Steely Dan. I'll bet you on that one!

Andy: I just recieved that songbook as well. I now have the complete Cherry Lane roster of song books on Steely Dan.

Bruce: Where are most of your gigs in Vegas? Bars? Clubs? Weddings? Or do you do the Casino thing?

Peter Q: Granatino doesn't talk about anything in Metal Leg. He just reprints the articles.

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 08:05:48 ET
Posted by: Howard, @lunch

Andy - I just received my copy of the EMG songbook. I've added some very basic info to my SD songbooks page:

http://www.jmdl.com/howard/steelydan/songbooks.html

This won't tell you much you don't already know, but I hope to add a review of the songbook fairly soon.

First impressions - similar standard to 2VN, i.e chord names are reasonably accurate, suggested guitar voicings are more questionable. It gets you in the ballpark, if that's what you want... The "Last Mall" transcription seems particularly dodgy.

The Police - Spirits:

What's this about "Spirits in the material world" being in an odd time signature? Isn't it 4/4 throughout? The only tricky bit is picking up the right downbeat in the first verse, so you don't perceive a funny time-shift going into the chorus. The 15/4 time signature isn't from a songbook is it...?

Howard

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 07:21:51 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Abu 2 - Katy Lied is perhaps the most howling yawp of "non belonging" despair that makes anyone a Steely Dan fan to begin with. I believe Granatino talks about this at length in one of the issues of Metal Leg, and I think Hoops is quoted there too if I recall correctly.


The catastrophic misjudgments the fellow in Dr. Wu makes have been brewing on the previous albums, but the exquisiteness of the expression of losing your girl to someone you think is your friend and/or business associate who turns out to be a drug lord is taken to another level on Wu. The recurrence of this theme on the first four albums is a little too frequent to perhaps not have been a variation on real life experiences?

Anyway, there is way too much material on this subject to put it all on Fever Dreams.

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 06:16:55 ET
Posted by: Bruce Mills, Vegas

To All:
Please excuse the date written BCE. It should obviously read AD or ACE or whatever.
It's quite late, I just returned from a gig and I'm very tired.
Thanks,
Bruce

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 06:00:40 ET
Posted by: Bruce Miles, Vegas

Re:Dr Mu
You make me laugh when you cite examples of time signatures as a measure of the sophistication of a group.
I had always known about non-traditional 20th centuty (classical) music, but I recently read about manuscripts with odd meter being discoveredway before Bach. That's about 1500 BCE or before.
That doesn't make the music hard, (or good,)it's just a device of expression. A measure in 2/4 in the middle of everything can change a stagnant 4/4 beat and freshen it up so to speak.
A guy who used "really" difficult meter was the late Frank Zappa.
He said he composed it by talking lyrics.
You know the way people talk. There's no consistant, whiney beat.
So if you want to see the man with the changing meter, check out his
scores.
But again, if it's just done to look cool, as it seems to in your reporting on The Police's meter, than it's relatively worthless.
By the way, Steely Dan use metrical devices very well, ond only when the music calls for it.
-Bruce

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 01:50:00 ET
Posted by: Andy,

Just came across Cherry Lane's p/v/g transcriptions for Everything Must Go. I haven't seen or heard much about this, so I assume it's pretty new. I just ordered mine, so I'll let you know in a week or two how it is...hopefully more like the decent 2vN book (which Cherry Lane also put out) and less like the SD Complete Book.

Here's the link to the site:
http://www.halleonard.com/item_detail.jsp?itemid=2500622&order=8&catcode=00&refer=search&type=product&keywords=steely+dan+

There should be links to places to buy the book on the Hal Leonard site. I bought my copy on ebay for $12.95...sheet music is tough to track down these days except for the on the Internet.

I wish I could keep in better touch with you guys on here....it's that deadly combination of a dirth of SD activity and "real" life responsibilities.

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 00:13:54 ET
Posted by: The Bending End, RI

Peter Q. - Thanks, good info.

I looked up that We Want Miles recording [1981] and now remember staring at it once in some record store, but not buying it for some reason. I remember because one of the tracks is titled Kix, which is the name of the club Miles performed at in Boston when he started his comeback that year. He played a couple of nights there, and I was at one of those shows, so that track, and possibly others on this recording, may be part of what I actually heard that night.

I had spent much of the previous winter listening to all sorts of classic Miles albums, which I would occasionally find in bargain bins back in those days. I had no idea at the time he was about to make a comeback, so I was about first in line when tickets became available.

I've always marveled at Tyner's work on the Coltrane recordings I have, but I've never delved into recordings where he's the lead...one of the many things I've been meaning to get to.

Date: Mon, October 27, 2003, 00:05:58 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu,

some additional odd Sting signatures:

Straight to My Heart: 5/4

Love is Stronger than Justice: 7/4

Seven Days:

verse - 7/4?

chorus - 5/4?

St. Augustine in Hell: 7/4

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 20:14:17 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu,

Donald and Walter's relationship is unique. But even they took a much needed break from each other for about 6 years to regroup for an aborted album attempt in 1986, then almost another 6 years before they did a mini-tour with NYR&SR and re-formed Steely Dan...

...still how many short-lived reunions have Simon and Garfunkel had? Heart and Bones was originally recorded as a Simon and Garfunkel album (a year and a half after the Central Park concert), but Paul Simon erased Art's vocals from the album just weeks before the release date, asserting the album was just much too personal. Check out the bridge on Rene and Georgette Magritte and Their Dog After the War - you can just hear Garfunkel's missing harmonies...Art had a couple of decent solo albums that sold marginally. He had a real knack for interpreting Simon's songs - adding an extra something fresh and original...too bad...

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 18:22:10 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

"R" is the letter.

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 18:16:18 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Mu - I can only imagine how much these two guys respect each other. (Our D&F) This has to help in collabotation. Two old friends who respect each others' sensibilities. Cripes, how many people do you know from 30 years ago who are still vital your life, much less in your business?

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 18:11:31 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Bending End - actually the sound Coltrane was trying to master with the sheets of sound was achieved ironically not by him but by 2 guys from his group in their solo work, after he died, the pianist McCoy Tyner and the tenor saxman Pharoah Sanders - the former with consistent success on album after album after album, the latter with mixed success. (If you can ever find the recording "You Got To Have Freedom" by Sanders, I beleive this was what Coltrane was trying to get at.)

IMHO when Donald Fagen made his infamous Down Beat remarks about Coltrane he could not have forseen Tyner's albums like Atlantis, Enlightenment, Song For My Lady, etc., or was unaware of/had never heard Tyner's albums on Blue Note from the sixties. Nobody but Tyner would be able to hear that music in their head. I believe that Tyner comes as close to revealing the ineffable through music as anyone can. It's what Fagen meant when he said wprds to the effect "No human being should try to go there," in the Down Beat article.

Lastly if you want to hear a contemporary sax player who gives big nods to Coltrane on the soprano YET at the same time has a sound all his own, try the album We Want Miles by Mr. Davis and listen to Bill Evans on the soprano; the solos are extensively annotated I believe in Ian Carr's bio of Miles.

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 17:58:18 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Yeah Bruce it's true that Europeans and the Japanese appreciate American music more than Americans do, but that doesn't mean these lands don't have tbeir pop bubblegum baloney too, they have it in droves.

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 17:57:55 ET
Posted by: Abu2, Trying to make sense of the suburban sprawl

Peter Q-

Good to see more new entries in Mortal Inquirys. Delving into Katy Lied should be scintillating! I look forward to it!

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 17:39:59 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

It's odd to realize Ghost in the Machine and Gaucho were almost concurrent. Spirits in the Material World lays down one of the most challenging rhythmic patterns in all of rock.

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 16:01:48 ET
Posted by: The Bending End, RI, looking for Coltrane recommendations

A curious thing happened as soon as I gave my first spin to Coltrane's Live at Birdland, which just arrived in the mail. My nine-year-old son and his two friends, whom I could not previously distract from their videogame trance in the basement, immediately dropped everything and came up to the living room and started dancing around the room. They denounced it as "old school" music, but seemed to be enjoying it nonetheless.

A couple of people have cited DF's quote in Down Beat years ago regarding how Coltrane ruined jazz. I've found that source and read through it. [I've even reactivated my Down Beat subscription, which lapsed in 1974.] My own taste in music was permanently altered after buying Coltrane's My Favorite Things back in '72. I have other Coltrane recordings, but have never seriously listened to what he put out during the last few years of his life [post-A Love Supreme]. I read somewhere about Live at Birdland being a bridge to those years, so I thought I'd start there and work forward. One recommendation I've heard is Interstellar Space, but that's right near the end of his life. I'd like to listen in a more or less chronilogical order, though not necessarily everything. If anyone has Coltrane recommendations for '64-'67, I'd be interested.

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 15:05:30 ET
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale,

Oh Bruce your post was so right on the money!!















Although I have been known to eat at McDonalds lol

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 14:37:12 ET
Posted by: Bruce Miles, Vegas

RE: Pivitol Pete

Yes: Sadly that's all too true! Many "top" rock groups have no talent whatsoever! And boy, that pisses me off. That's why I haven't listened to any "new groups" since I can remember, except for a little clip that makes me sick and think why in hell's name are they even there.
Why?
Because some old or young fool who's head of a record company (like Clive Davis) decides that "this is the one" and proceeds to spend millions of dollars publicizing new crap!

It's really business as usual. They're selling a product, and they really don't care how good it is. As long as it functions amd it's new.
Just like new cars every year, you can be sure there will be some new
crap that will enter the "hit machine." Some will sink and some will swim.
Content doesn't necesssarily matter! It's only one small part of the overall package.
The girls must be anorexic looking with no breasts to speak of.
And on and on and on.
Once you're established it's a different story.
Then you have a fan base which follows you, hopefully.
Most Studio guys just don't fit the profile. They're fat, older, etc.
But Toto was composed of studio cats. And Glen Campbell (old enough to remember?) was a session guitarist into Django.
There are more examples, but suffice it to say that there are many, many, worse bands (than The Police were) out there making good money.
Money that should go to the guys that bust their asses for years playing their instruments, writing songs, and singing them.
And sadly, that's not the way it happens in the good old USA, where money rules, and art takes a back seat. It's very different in Europe.
That's why so many "genuine" jazz artists have left town. Because the Europeans appreciate the real thing and won't take crap as a substitute.
We're a nation of crap.
McDonalds, Bud Lite, all crap if you know food and drink.
And the same goes for our music and almost every thing else.
Except weapons. Those we make real good. We could blow the world up ten times and the Russians could blow it up nine.
WE WIN!! How cool we really are!
Or are we?

-Bruce

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 14:23:58 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu,

JdeSiecle - sorry, overlapping nicknames...Copeland had a thoroughbred physique that is seen in only a few athletes...

...but, no that's not a requirement for being a great drummer...Buddy Rich or Dennis Chambers, at least the last tinme I saw him with Boz Scaggs. did not resemble athletes. Carlock's big but not particularly buff


Rajah: It's not a bridge club - they don't have to like each other!...I wonder how many of Miles Davis' bandmates were CLOSE buddies with him...but the Police were a TIGHT sounding band in the studio and in concert - that's the kind of communication between the instruments that sparks the sound. Spirits in the Material World is seamless and supertight with that 15/4 and 8/4 signature...Note how on the first 4 albums that bass, drums and guitar traded lead so effortlessly within a song - like passing the hot potato...much more like a jazz band than a rock band...this trading back and forth I think is a BIG part of Steely Dan 2

TvN and EMG feature much more communication between the instruments than the first seven Dan albums, which are much more linear and chock full of ear candy...

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 14:13:04 ET
Posted by: ed, @asleep

Hi,
I was forwarded this url.

http://www.snakebabe.com/

It appears the snakebabe gets around

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 13:23:49 ET
Posted by: JdeS, vivisectioned drummers

Doc Mu -
a much more detailed response to my 'same muscle group' polo/drumming surmising, but being neither athlete nor physiologist i'm embarrassed to say that the citations of muscle names/actions are mostly greek to me! fascinating nonetheless.

p.s. i'm not Diane -- but i've got a sister named that

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 13:11:02 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

The Police were a seminal band. They were exciting to watch. They rocked hard. What was missing for me was a true sense of collaboration. Never felt the love. They were selfish players and I'm not quite sure what they stood for.

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 12:28:33 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Brucie-

If pure instrumental skill were the key to greatness then all the top session people would be the big stars. Of course, that's no more the case than that only great singers are popular (FAR from true). You may not like the Police, but many would say they were unique and creative.

In the same vein, IMHO people who've been dissing D&W (Walter in particular) because they aren't tops in chops ain't paying attention. Of course they aren't -- that's why they brought in great musicians to bring their vision to life. But it's their vision and they're the artists who make it happen.

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 12:12:54 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Roles and rolls -

Thought arises that, while there are many exceptions, there's a tendency for the front man/lead singer (we're talking pop/rock here) to be an emaciated bean pole. Examples: Jagger, Ocasek, Rose.

Nuzzle at your own risk...

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 12:11:38 ET
Posted by: Bruce Miles, Vegas

I get a general impression of people deifying the Police: a nothing rock band.
The guitarist stank, still stinks, and will stink 'till infinity.
Ditto for Stingk, who can sing in a childlike voice, but doesn't know one end of the bass from the other, or doesn't even play it when he sings. (Granted, that's difficult, but hey; get a guy to double for you.)
The drummer,though was indeed good.

It just shows you how little it takes to become a rock n roll hit.
But now Stingk's doing AOL ads, so perhaps people have come to their senses.

Q)Name a player who hangs around musicians but knows nothing about music!
DRUMMERS!

-Bruce

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 12:07:30 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, @work (on f@#king Sunday)

"May not have had a good view, but is it fair to say being a hunk is not a requirement of great drumming? ... "

Two words to help confirm that idea.....

John Bonham


KC

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 09:43:05 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Laina-

Well, now you have me second-guessing! But actually as a tendency I think if there's anyone on stage to whom you'd say "Hey, you've been workin' out!" it's most likely the drummer. Agreed about Carlock and I'm pretty sure a great drummer does not need big biceps or triceps--anymore than a pitcher in baseball needs big muscles. The "Copeland played polo" post made me wonder...
And of course, I can't recall any names of pumped-up drummers so I could be dreaming!

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 03:05:26 ET
Posted by: Laina, on the sleep-bound train

Pete, I didn't know that a lot of drummers were buff. I mean it makes sense that they would be, but I don't think I've seen a lot of them. Carlock doesn't look particularly muscle-bound, but I figure he's got enough of those muscles to enable him to do his job and do it *quite* well.

Lainalove

Date: Sun, October 26, 2003, 00:58:00 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Dr Mu et al-

Glad to hear all the agreement and further details about Copeland.

It must take a ton of practice and concentration -- and perhaps some special genetic code -- for musicians to handle those bizarre time signatures. Akin to a singer trying to hit tight or unusual harmonies.
Listening to the tight harmonies on LWG reminded me of Michael McDonald's interesting story about doing the vocals for Peg (on the Making of Aja DVD). Then at the concert in Concord I noticed Cindy Mizelle with one hand to her ear while doing the "Lunch with Gina" chorus! (Only time I saw any of the singers do that.)

On drummers' muscles: Seeing Carlock at the concert, noticed he does not seem to be real buff like a lot of drummers. May not have had a good view, but is it fair to say being a hunk is not a requirement of great drumming? ...

Date: Sat, October 25, 2003, 22:01:31 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu ,

Diane:

"My understanding is that Copeland is (or at least was when w. the police) an avid polo player, believe it or not. perhaps whatever muscle set works w. swinging a polo mallet is conducive to drumming!"


interesting - could run both ways. Let's analyze both movements. Polo would invole primarily one arm (dominant) - it would provide the grip muscles (flexor and extensor digiitorums etc.) quite a workout.

When swinging the mallet forward, the shoulder would start from a full laterally rotated position - the shoulder undergoes shoulder flexion (like a fast-pitch softball pitcher). The muscle involved in shoulder flexion are the anterior deltoid, clavicular portion of the pectoralis major (upper pecs), coracobrachialis, and short head of the biceps brachii.

However, prior to swinging the mallet forward, the early swing (when the mallet is pointing towards the sky) and drive would involve shoulder extension. The muscle mass is larger than for flexion and thus helps accelerate the mallet before the forward swing (posterior deltoid, latissimus dorsi, sternal portion of the pectorlais major or lower pecs, long head of the triceps brachii, and teres major.

Because the movement is very rapid (ballistic) and involves considerable force, many of the other muscle in the shoulder would be recruited in order to stabilize the shoulder and elbow.

Drumming involves lots of different upper body movements (not to mention the bass drumm foot pedal, but the shoulders are largely undergoing shoulder extension during when moving the sticks towards the drum lit, and shoulder flexion when lifting the sticks...


For more information, please visit my teaching site (URL below) in mechanics of exercise. Under the Lecture Materials under the KINE 627 or 426 links there are power point files on the basics of joint movement nomenclature (under anatomical reference or coordinate system files)...The Lab section material may help as well. A full Muscles used for all major joint movements are available at from the following text: Sieg, Kay W. and Adams, Sandra P. Illustrated Essentials of Musculoskeletal Anatomy. 4rd Ed. Gainesville, Fl: Megabooks, 2002. (unfortunately, because of copyright issues, I don't post sections of texts). We have pre-PT, pre OT, pre-med, pre-athletic trainers etc in 426 and grad students from engineering, to physiology to molecular biology in 627 so we do a lot more than the above and there's lots of diverse information to sample from whole body and tissue biomechanics:

http://exbiomech.tamu.edu

Date: Sat, October 25, 2003, 16:05:05 ET
Posted by: gary, san diego

on bullsye records 78'
bushmills..u swill
who mama shut up yo face boboo"

Date: Sat, October 25, 2003, 15:46:05 ET
Posted by: JdeSiecle, more copeland + coltrane online interview

Doc Mu, re:

>his arms had the kind of definition I've only seen on one other man - Mike Tyson in Vegas in 1987 at a WBA chamionship fight.<
My understanding is that Copeland is (or at least was when w. the police) an avid polo player, believe it or not. perhaps whatever muscle set works w. swinging a polo mallet is conducive to drumming!

*Also, on another note, most people here will probably be interested in a previously unreleased Coltrane interview, from 1958 w. August Blume, that is playable online via the web site of a philadelphia gallery, Slought Foundation, www.slought.org (they're having a Coltrane-related exhib beginning mid Nov). I'm not sure how they got their paws on this + got rights for web posting, but it's a pretty cool find.
-warning: it is 46 minutes long-

Date: Sat, October 25, 2003, 15:20:54 ET
Posted by: Javier Moreno Pollarolo, Boca Del Rio, Tacna, Peru

FoolInLove_With_Time_To_Harm: I have the New Sound of the Venezuelan Gozadera, it's an amazing record and that CD introduced me to the AI sound. However, it's not their first CD, but their second one. The first one, "A Typical and Autoctonal Venezuelan Dance Band" is available in Venezuela and their website only. www.amigosinvisibles.com

It's a good thing you've been there, man. So you know what their shows are about!

J.

Date: Sat, October 25, 2003, 13:36:56 ET
Posted by: Love This Gig, rained out

Here come those Santa Ana winds again.....

Just back from a peek at the yellow. Much bad karma there. Say three Our Fathers and drink a Maker's Mark.

As for me and mine, from the bottom of our black little hearts, thanks hoops! We could not have had the summer of our lives without you, the Green and your (Blue) book of remedies!

P.S. Happy Birthday Aussie and bon chance Core NYC @ Chez Suzette's. The Word: KNYEO!

Date: Sat, October 25, 2003, 05:06:09 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Alluding to time signatures in Spirits in the Material World? It's one of the most difficult and radical rthymic patterns in all of rock. The vocal remains out of sync. That was great songwriting.

Date: Sat, October 25, 2003, 01:51:12 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu,

Damn, it IS 15 beats/measure...quarter notes so 15/4 in the verse (I can't believe they played it so flawlessly) and 8/4 for the chorus in Spirits...or I'm just overtired...

Date: Sat, October 25, 2003, 01:24:31 ET
Posted by: Nazman,

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
anyway - the one item that rolling stone said better that always thrilled me about the police was they packed all that sound and fury into a 3 man band
*** *** ***

Not the first by any stretch...
Jimi Hendrix Experience
Cream (Ginger Baker)

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 23:45:48 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu ,

lp: Hello Baton Rouge for me...or was it Greensboro? No, I saw Earth wind and fire in Greensboro about 18 mo prior...

Musicians: I've got on Spirits in the Material World...counting off the odd syncopation in the verse and I swear the time signature is 15/16 ...can that be right? ...and 8/4 for the chorus? ...Sting has a penchant for using odd time sigs - a couple on Ten Summoner's tales...damn, Zappa would be proud of that Material World though...

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 23:19:26 ET
Posted by: luckless pedestrian, @home

dr mu - hey i was at the 1983 tour for police as well - syracuse, ny for me

anyway - the one item that rolling stone said better that always thrilled me about the police was they packed all that sound and fury into a 3 man band

their cd's are still classic imo and i play them on a regular basis

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 22:22:46 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

There is no Police without Copeland. This kills Stingle. I suspect that Sting, with this ever present "Marley's ghost" haunting him, will attempt to use Carlock as a kind of antidote to Copeland. The Doors abomination wasn't pretty for Stu. Jack Bruce, Copeland, Ginger Baker and Andy Summers. Cast-offs, right? Senseless.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 22:01:05 ET
Posted by: steelydoubt,

copeland is one of that reasons i like oysterhead, that and trey anastasio.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 21:09:24 ET
Posted by: afoolnluv, if you like "Arepa 3k"...

Javier - you should check out Los Amigos' first cd, "The New Sound of the Venezuelan Godzadera" Amazing stuff... in fact, we've probably been dancing next to each other a a Los Amigos' show and never knew it. I was the guy singing along phoenetically at the top of my lungs...

"Quiero desintegrar a tu novio..."

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 20:36:57 ET
Posted by: The Bending End, RI

I was confused about the "Vol. 2" designation as well, until I realized there are a bunch of "Live at Maybeck Recital Hall" recordings of various artists. For each artist, there's a unique "Volume #". McKenna just happens to be # 2.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 20:36:14 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu,

It's not what ya got, it's what ya do with it...in the 70s Michael Franks, Steely Dan, Boz Scaggs, and Paul Simon shared many of the same musician, but Tiger in the Rain, Gaucho, Silk Degrees, and Still Crazy After All These Years while all sweet recordings, are distinctly different from each other and reflective of the artist's vision at the time...

Sting used many of the same players on both Soul Cages and Ten Summoner's Tales - but the albums sound nothing alike...


Copeland's fine on Synchrnocity, but to really hear him in action - ya gotta dig Ghost in the Machine and Zenyatta Mondatta...jeez, I Iisten to the filler on the albums just to hear Copeland all over the kit! The Driving Demolition Man, One World, Invisible Sun, Driven to Tears to name just a few are real Copeland tour de force vehicles...

I have to give the Police credit for creating really 3 distinct sounds: the first one moves from punk to World over a reggae backbeat, but Ghost in the Machine (Despite a couple of filler songs like Rehumanize Yourself) is an amazing dark wall of sound, never duplicated - the Last Fusion album...then they created a vastly different and more spare sound on Synchronicity, again never duplicated...


Possibly one of the very few pearls of wisdom from Rolling Stone magrag came from of all things a Review of the Police: "never before have so few done so much with so little"


Seeing Copeland live with the Police in the early 80s was an amazing site - part mad genius, part animal...his arms had the kind of definition I've only seen on one other man - Mike Tyson in Vegas in 1987 at a WBA chamionship fight...Copeland literally played *three* simultaneous and integrated rhythmic lines in virtually every song on hit hat + cymbals AND the plethora of drums + tom toms AND was Master of the foot-pedalled bass drum...Carlock is absolutely fantastic, and resembles Copeland, but Stewart Copleand was really from another world...

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 19:56:45 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Yeah touring is shakin that money maker, no doubt. When you've reached the lofty heights our boys have and can basically tap that ass, if you will, every 2-3 years, you've got a cottage industry par excellance. Trick is feeding the fire - our need for more new material. Then dole it out to them piecemeal, leaving the tastiest bits (Dr Wu-Pixeleen-Razor Boy-Everything You Did-YGT-Greenbook-Here at the Western World) for last. Works for me.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 19:42:50 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Piv - read the resumes of the people in the group. Look at who some of these people have toured with, what films their music has appeared in, etc. Do you think someone who tours with Simon & Garfunkel or Sting all over the world can make more money than the headliners at small venues? IMHO it would be real close.

About six months ago on the cover of the NY Times business section the feature story was on Barry Gibb, of the Bee Gees. It said that to this day the Bee Gees still sell 15 million CDs worldwide, year in, year out. In fact in all of music they are second only to the Beatles in lifetime sales. Now out of 15 million CDs guess how much each of the guys gets in royalties? About a million bucks. Obviously the money in the music biz is in touring.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 19:03:07 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Peter - so there's no Vol. I to McKenna @ Maybeck? I was gonna make an existential crack about the chicken and the egg, i.e., can there be a Vol. 2 without a Vol. 1? Answer: apparently. I've ordered it.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 19:01:21 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, back in California

Javier- "Amigos Invisibles: "Arepa 3000: A Venezuelan Journey Into Space" Thanks for that recommendation!! My wife is from Venezuela and I love their music (many genres). Also muy amusing: You probably know that an Arepa is a very typical corn-meal cake that Venezuelans put all kinds of stuff on. Lotsa shops around ("Areperas") that serve them.

Kid Clean- Thanks for info on "Stone Piano." I may pick it up next time I'm in London ... That title seems kinda random!

Sting/Copeland- I'm no drum expert, but IMHO Copeland's work on Synchronicity (esp) and other Police stuff is remarkable. If they do any of that material on the tour, seems Carlock would have a dilemma on how much to copy and how much to change. (Even more than is normally the case.) What would "Wrapped Around My Finger" sound like without that strange start-stop beat?

Bruford - Only really know his stuff from Yes, but seems like another guy with rhythms most mortals can't produce.

PeterQ from Brooklyn writes: "Some of [the band members] probably make more money than their employers. A musician could get paid more money for one TV commercial than an entire 5 month tour with a pop band." Maybe the side-men make more on a commercial than on a tour, but are you saying they make more than D&W? Please share data...
(Also, ask Meali and Barna if they like Arepas. Colombia's about the only other country that makes them.)

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 18:25:53 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Rajah, you misread what I said. That was supposed to be a sohisticated SD head telling a simpleton, "I'm more sophisticated than you, you simpleton." And there is no Vol. 1, inexplicably, Vol. 2 is the only one.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 18:12:00 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Naz & Peter: "...fiction and folly?" "simpleton SD heads?". How dare you, I resemble those remarks! And calling the kettle black.

Sting is insipid. He needs Copeland to kick his ass again. Maybe Keith can provide that service. All I can say is, he better allow Carlock to rove around unleashed like SD did. Sting doesn't strike me as being one to give up much of the spotlight. Then again, it would be interesting to see them interact with bass & drum.

When I looked for the McKenna @ Maybeck a couple weeks ago, all I got from Amazon was a "Vol. 2". Where do I find this transcendant collection my brothers?

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 16:23:42 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Hey Bending End! Very very cool that you went for the McKenna CD. I know many people who have had the same experience you did while hearing McKenna play, the emotion rises up out of your whole being like it was beamed into you from the heavens. The version of Limehouse Blues on Maybeck moves everyone to tears.

I can swear in one of his spontaneous "theme" medleys - this one was about shoes - I heard McKenna include Bad Sneakers but can't corroborate it, it was at Town Hall in New York about 15 years ago.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 16:22:48 ET
Posted by: Abu2,

Gretchen-

and we need to! Ironic how we've incurred more losses since the war ended isn't it?

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 16:16:17 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

My fav. song at the moment: Freda Payne-"Bring the Boys Home."

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 15:22:05 ET
Posted by: Abu2, Jazz n conversation

Here's what's been making the rounds on my modest CD palyeras of late:



EMG-it's ALL about nuance!

Nitefly- provides relaxation

Lloyd Cole and The Commtions:
Compilation Disc 1984-89-LOVE that jangly sound and that catch in the throat type voice!

Hoped for: Matthew Sweet and probably some Fountains of Wayne! On the road as of late,so not much time to spin discs!

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 14:34:20 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Earl, or Duke, I forget which - Sting has had just as many A list jazz players as SD has had, probably more - Vinnie Colutia, Darryl Jones (plays bass for the Stones since Wyman left), Branford, etc.
So no, not the case.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 14:09:30 ET
Posted by: Duke of Earl, Delaware

Peter: I think my point about Sting was definitely that, from a musician's perspective, Sting's music is less interesting than Steely Dan, Krantz, or Oz Noy. But Sting's probably playing to an audience in the thousands, rather than the hundreds.

It's been pretty typical that SD has chosen solo jazz artists to join them on tour. I don't know how their payscale breaks down. I know I paid $40 for cheap seats in Hershey, so I don't think the guys have to worry about putting food on the table.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 11:46:41 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Dukie, checking the resumes of the players who last toured with SD I don't think any of them have any trouble making a living; indeed, some of them probably make more money than their employers. A musician could get paid more money for one TV commercial than an entire 5 month tour with a pop band.

And if you want to say Sting is a step down, then someone else may say improvising with Krantz and Lefeberve may be a step up. You actually have to think, and can't just play the snare drum all night.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 09:58:51 ET
Posted by: Nazman,

Or better yet, maybe he just can't relate to the fiction and the folly of the BlueBook scholars...

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 09:56:37 ET
Posted by: Nazman,

Maybe Carlock just can't relate to half the people that post here.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 09:26:49 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, @work

SS - check out http://www.disciplineglobalmobile.com/cat/index.htm. They should have most of his releases listed. I actually haven't heard any of his solo stuff but I'm pretty fond of his work with the 80's King Crimson such as Beat, Discipline and Three of a Perfect pair. We were just discussing that in the green room last night. Weird.

PP - Stone Piano is just another compilation of early recordings unauthorized by D & W. However, don't let that stop you from picking it up. See - http://www.steelydan.com/furry.html for further details.

KC

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 09:11:56 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Anyone know what Bill Bruford is up to these days ? I'd like to pick up some of his better stuff....whether new or old. Ideas ?

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 07:38:42 ET
Posted by: Duke Of Earl, Delaware

Money is money. As much as I think it would be a step down to work with Sting, Carlock et. al. are trying to make a living. There is only one Steely Dan, and I don't think Wayne Krantz pays nearly as much as Sting.

I mean, it could be worse, he could lead the Conan O'Brian hack band.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 06:27:29 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

I'm glad Carlock plays with Sting and David Johansen, for the reason that it takes the more snooty, I'm-better-than-you-you-simpleton type Steely Danheads down a couple of notches. I've always laughed when I see something like this, or like Ricky Lawson playing with Michael Jackson. Or half the touring band playing in Broadway shows. It puts the snootier fans in the absurd position of idolizing one artist and disparaging another...while both are hiring the same musicians. D

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 02:50:24 ET
Posted by: Javier "Jive Miguel" Moreno, Morenoland, CA

Ok, since everyone is making lists, I'd love to give you a cool one. What other artists I discovered since that fateful autumn of 1992 (South Hemisphere fall), when I discovered the Dan? What other music Did I fall in love with?

Let me flush my memory toilet... ok!

1993: "Chronicle" - Creedence Clearwater Revival. I never heard a single song of them before this year. It's a happy-go-lucky band, and I never thought they took their career seriously. They just played like an excellent bar band.
1994: Pat Metheny Group - "The Road To You" (1993) - I listened to the entire album being broadcasted from an FM radio station in Arica, Chile. I couldn't believe what I was missing. 'First Circle' is still a song I never skip.
1995: I was having a time consuming love relationship during that year... Let's see, I thing I discovered Bobby Darin thru his album "Great Gentlemen of Song" (1995). During the following years, Bobby was my Idol.
1996: Jamiroquai - "The Return Of The Space Cowboy" (1994). I think this is my favorite act from the nineties. This record was recorded with a lot of bass, and a lot of Fender Rhodes and seventies synths, and sounds so Stevie Wonder that the blind genius can sue Jay Kay the same way Jarret did.
1997: Orbital - "In Sides" - This was my closest approach to what pure electronic music was. I say 'was' because I think EM is a dead art now. I went to see "The Saint" movie with Val Kilmer and I got curious about the song, performed by Orbital. The album is a
1998: Daft Punk - "Homework". I remember I made a copy of that album for my car's cassette player. It's crappy electronic music made by two french teenagers! But it's so powerful, really. So powerful.
1999: Gil Evans - "Verve Jazz Masters 23" - 'Las Vegas Tango,' what a bomb. He was an amazing arranger. I can't believe the stuff he did with 'Spoonful.'
2000: Amigos Invisibles: "Arepa 3000: A Venezuelan Journey Into Space" - Basically, the Sgt. Pepper's of latin music, and an excellent anthology of Venezuelan Rythms and attitude. Steely Dan fans will definetly love this album. So far this is the band I've seen more times (4), and I enjoyed every gig like a pig in the mud. You should try this record.
2001: Airto - "Best Of" (1994) - I met Airto at UCLA, and he signed his autograph on this CD. For me, it is more valuable than a Britney Spears' autograph... well, depending if she kisses me afterwards. Also, a band called "Bossa Nostra" released a record called "Voyage To Brazil", and they really impressed me, they really did.
2002: I'm not sure what I discovered this year. There's a band you should check, it's an independent low budget group called "pickPocket Ensemble" (http://www.pickpocketensemble.com/) and I had the honor of seeing them in Berkeley in January promoting a record called "If I Were A Highway" Rhythms and melodies that can be traced from Eastern Europe, never compromising them with pop arrangements or shit like that. This band, guys, can really make history if they were discovered by some guy like Alan Lomax, not like David Foster or Quincy Jones.
2003: I don't know yet, too soon. So far I can tell you what I have around my desk: Anacrusa (folk band from Argentina), Headhunters by Herbie Hancock, This Was by Jethro Tull... stay tuned!

Javier.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 01:46:59 ET
Posted by: The Bending End, RI

Haven't been here in a while, but thought I'd contribute the current contents of my CD changer, which I share with my wife and 13 year-old daughter, in no particular order:

1) Jorma Kaukonen - Blue Country Heart
2) Cat Stevens - Tea for the Tillerman [a recent gift from me to my daughter]
3) Lorraine Feather - New York City Drag
4) Gillian Welch - Revival
5) Bob Wills and his Texas Playboys - The Essential Bob Wills [1935-1947]
6) Joss Stone - The Soul Sessions [another recent gift from me to my daughter]

Coltrane's Live at Birdland is my most recent Amazon order. Should be arriving soon.

I've just added Dave McKenna's Live at Maybeck Recital Hall to my Amazon shopping cart, as recommended by Peter Q. My wife and I went to see native Rhode Islander McKenna here in Rhode Island when we were newlyweds about 14 years ago. Irving Berlin had just died the day before, so McKenna decided to include an Irving Berlin medley in his performance. The medley was one of those live musical moments [more like 40 minutes] that I will never forget. And it was as if he had just pulled it out of thin air. I was in tears.

We went to see Mose Allison here in Rhode Island--maybe last year sometime--and the sad news was announced that McKenna's diabetes has left him incapable of playing any longer. More tears.
======================================================
After skimming through the posts of the past 5 weeks or so, I feel obligated to thank Hoops for maintaining this site, and to thank all those who contribute. This forum is packed with information and should not be taken for granted.

As has been mentioned, musical tastes can be very personal. Like religion and politics, the personal tastes of others should be worn like a loose garment, IMHO.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 00:55:54 ET
Posted by: j . de s., carlock + sting = return to police-ism , a good sign

WHOA!!! Heavens to Betsy! I just caught these posts on Carlock enlisting w. Sting, and thought I'd imagined it/projected it at first -- the funny thing is that the first time I'd heard Carlock live, at the Camden show, I mentioned to my companion that stylistically he reminded me somewhat of Stewart Copeland (whom I respect a great deal), specifically in a certain pause/skip idiosyncracy. I would guess Sting heard the same thing and perhaps has a desire to try to recreate some of his genuinely good stuff from the glory days. Very cool! It'll be interesting to see what results.

Date: Fri, October 24, 2003, 00:52:13 ET
Posted by: PivotalPete, London, heading home

Anyone aware of a 2-CD set of Steely Dan music called "Stone Piano"? It's in a purple box (pretty nice packaging) and saw it while browsing in a record store near Picadilly in London (here on business). Looks like a pretty new issue.
Some of the cuts are ones from the "Early Years" album that I rarely listen to; others are later well-known songs (but of course I can't recall which ones now).
This does not appear to be a collection of covers by someone on piano -- it clearly says "Steely Dan" as the artist.

Maybe I'm just clueless, but never heard of this collection. Perhaps it needs to be in regular rotation?!

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 23:57:00 ET
Posted by: WuDuF, bethel

Hey kids! The last time I saw Sting live Vinny C. was playing drums. Carlock should add a fresh dynamic to his group. I MUST say, however, (at the risk of being bastardized for this) that I have lost all respect for Sting after hearing: 1) his interview on WNPR a couple of weeks ago, and 2)seeing him on 60 minutes. He came off in both arenas as very conceited, arrogant, and downright obnoxious about the way his career moves have gone. He all but admitted that even though he has spoken out in the past against certain aspects of corporate America, he agreed to do American Express and Jaguar commercials just to get his songs heard. As if he would have that problem! He has written some of the most sophisticated and beautiful music and lyrics, but hearing him speak was very disheartening. I know someone's personal life shouldn't matter in certain fields like the arts, but the fact is that when I hear of a favorite musician of mine doing something wonderful or generous, it increases my respect and admiration for them, so naturally the reverse will also be true. I'm very sad and let down by what I heard. I respect the opinions of people who post on this site, so I'd be interested on others' take--if they heard/saw the same thing I did.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 23:03:58 ET
Posted by: Laina, still here

I understand.

No nuzzles tonight.

Have a nice evening.

Laina.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 21:25:42 ET
Posted by: End of Story,

Yo! Laina Babe........not directed at you or meant tersely. Meant what I said, just not how I said it. (Just spanked myself and tried not to enjoy it.) Just don't want anyone having any bad thought about our Keith.. Sure you understand.

Friendly nuzzles atcha babe...

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 20:44:44 ET
Posted by: Doctor Mu, there has to be an invisible sun

Rajah, PQ: Holy Crap! Ohhh the humanity!!! the Swiss banc accounts! Keith's going over to the Dark Side...yes, there could be a Jaguar in Mr. Carlock's future. Javing said that he is a superb fit, especially for Police tunes - Carlock is in a nexus somewhere between Stewart Copeland and Tony Williams...Keith can whack, he can fill, he can do reggae/Latin/fusion...he should keep some tantric yogurt in the cooler to smear over the ladies who can't catch der Stingle...


OK, so what exactly DID Miles say??

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 20:09:59 ET
Posted by: Laina, here

Well, End of Story, please excuse my ignorance. Thanks for the information. Have a lovely day.

Laina....

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 19:29:28 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

So how well does Sting play bass nowadays? He used to be good by 1979 punk standards.(ha) Has he evolved as a player or did farting around with guitar and yoga marginalize bass cleff? Is he still funkified? After the first 2 Sting albums I checked out until Summmoners Tales.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 19:10:14 ET
Posted by: End of story, Don't even let the bullshit rumors start.

Laina, this is how nasty rumors gets started

What he means is that Carlock has everything going for him. No, he has no problem. The post just means let's all hope success doesn't lead him into anything like that. Now the higher truth: he's smarter than you average mega-talented musician to get all messed up. End of story.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 19:01:46 ET
Posted by: Laina, trabajo

"graduated to the upper eschelon for good.. provided he can keep off the crack pipe"

Kram, what's this about Carlock? Has he had a habit in the past or something??

Lainalove

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 18:47:27 ET
Posted by: Connie, in the vineyard

Revisiting Concord –

I suddenly remembered and I don't think it was posted or did I dream this?
During the SD concert each member of the band was introduced, spotlighted and applauded. When Carolyn was introduced, a man in drag (halter top, long wig, tall) stepped into the spotlight. We all went what the **** and then laughed. Suddenly the real Carolyn appeared and the band broke into a tune. I learned later it was one of the lighting guys.
Did this happen at any other venue or was it “only in the Bay Area”?

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 18:36:08 ET
Posted by: Steve, Middleton, PA

Back around 96 or maybe it was 2000, an interviewer asked Walter Becker what he thought of Sting. He responded, "I don't shop in that part of the record store."

Steve

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 18:27:44 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

In the Miles autobiography co-authored w. Quincy Troupe there is a hilarious story about what Miles told Sting when Sting asked if he could play on the You're Under Arrest album. Hint: Sting does not play on the album.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 18:23:39 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Bill - I remember Omar Hakim's solo album in the 80s on the old GRP label, the tune Amethyst Secrets was a beautiful beautiful ballad. I also remember when he used to write songs for the pianist Bob Thompson in the early 90s. If I'm not mistaken he was the hired gun drummer for Dire Straits in their commercial heyday, around the Brothers In Arms period.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 15:47:35 ET
Posted by: hoops, Chicago Show

Sting played a show in Chicago two weeks ago in Grant Park on the lake. Had free tickets except some high-price tix for charity.

He played maybe 20 songs including "Walking on the Moon," "An Englishman In New York" (which he stopped and switched to "Roxanne" since he "realized" he was in Chicago, Featured a lot of songs from his new album. "Send Your Love," "Inside," "Whenever I Say Your Name," "This War," "All This Time," "Fields of Gold," "Message In a Bottle, "Every Little Thing She Does...," "Synchronicity II," 'Every Breath You Take."

The show was recorded and has been broadcast in recent weeks, a bit like SD's "Plush" show, suggesting that this may not be the set list for the tour itself come January. But hopefully Carlock will show up on late nite TV like "Letterman" and "Leno." Heck, maybe Sting will do Oprah's show.

jim

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 15:30:56 ET
Posted by: Rcray, NYU

Oh yea here is the setlist from the Sting show I saw in 00'
............................................................
A Thousand Years
If You Love Somebody Set Them Free
Seven Days
I'm So Happy I Can't Stop Crying
Fields Of Gold
Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic
Moon Over Bourbon Street
Tomorrow We'll See
Englishman In New York
Brand New Day
Roxanne
Desert Rose
1st encore.........................
If I Ever Lose My Faith In You
Every Breath You Take
2nd encore..........................
Message In A Bottle

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 15:23:42 ET
Posted by: RCRAY, NYU

I've seen Sting before and he does a handful of Police tunes but focuses on his solo stuff...he has something like 12 solo albums. 1/2 of which are mediocre at best the rest are pretty good. But nothing like Synchronicity or Zenyatta etc...


Carlock should rock!!

Plus you all are right Sting will probably sell more tix which means he can afford to pay Carlock more dough.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 14:57:23 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, @work

I'll second the emotion about Keith being able to tear up some of the old Police tunes. Has anyone seen Sting in the last few years? What's the set like, does he include any of the old Police tunes? I don't care for some of his most recent stuff but he does tend to surround himself with top notch musicians, it could be a real good show.


KC

Big Hey! to Earthbound (where the hell are you man?!?!), Hey Mike & Nancy, Noah, and all the rest of the midwest cats.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 14:10:04 ET
Posted by: Bill , Pittsburgh

The Stingmeister clearly knows a good drummer when he hears one - Stuart Copeland, Manu Katche, Vinnie Colaiuta, Omar Hakim for starters.

Whatever happened to Omar Hakim, anyway - he was a hell of a drummer, used to turn up on lots of high-profile projects.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 14:01:47 ET
Posted by: Bill/Pittsburgh, A Modest Proposal

Does anyone remember the movie "FM"? I saw it when it came out in the 70s and remember it being a bit, well, whack is what it might be called today. The premise was that there was an old-fashioned "free-form" radio station being taken over by corporate interests and forced to play, horrors, recruiting commercials for the U.S. Army and follow a strict commercially-oriented playlist. The DJs barricaded the doors and held the station hostage, with their loyal listeners cheering them on from below.

A modest proposal - since Hollywood loves remakes of everything good or bad, how about an updating of this tale with a certain mega-media conglomerate with the initials "C.C." in the black-hat role. I'd pay good money to see that, even if they changed the network's name to protect the guilty (I know a DJ on one of their stations who privately calls them the "evil empire.") Could such a film ever happen today? Only a fool would say that ... But, "High Fidelity" was kind of a success with similar themes.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 13:12:43 ET
Posted by: kram, vt- knee deep in the white stuff

carlock playing w/ the stingster??!! that is soooo huge..
just as huge as SD from a drummers stand point of view i assure u, and probably better bene's and pay...he has now graduated to the upper eschelon for good.. provided he can keep off the crack pipe

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 13:09:32 ET
Posted by: Upcoming Carlock Appearances,NYC

Oct. 23.........55Bar w/ Wayne Krantz, Tim Lefevbre
Oct. 24.........Bottom Line w/ David Johansen
Oct. 25.........Woodstock w/ David Johansen
Oct. 27.........Bitter End w/ Oz Noy, Will Lee

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 12:56:06 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

WAIT A MINUTE! Our young Mr. Carlock mit der Schtingle? He hops the turnstiles and shifts left into the dead zone? Oh, the shame...oh the bucks! Unless Sting is finally going to drop all that dopey and droopy solo stuff of the last ten years and does those punky Police songs. Keith would eat up all those Police tracks.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 10:51:02 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, brushing snow off my car

Today's rotation:

Brubeck live at Newport
Eric B. and Rakim-Paid in Full
EMG-who else?
Don-The Nightfly
Robin Trower-Long Misty Days
The 70's Soul Experience-disc 1(various artists)

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 10:34:01 ET
Posted by: Duke of Earl, First State

I don't have a CD Changer, but here's my most played recently:

1) John Mayer - Heavier Things (it's good, I like a number of the off-tracks such as Split Screen Sadness and Home Life)
2) Steely Dan - Everything Must Go (still haven't gotten completely sick of it)
3) Steely Dan - Citizen #3 (first few tracks of Aja, plus Here at the Western World and The Royal Scam)
4) John Mayer - Room For Squares (Mayer is getting quite a bit of spinnage on my lab CD player)
5) Bryan Duncan - Blue Skies (Christian artist who professes Steely Dan as a musical influence)

Not sure what I like about Mayer, but I think it mainly has to do with his lyrical style and delivery...his obviously-commercial tracks are boring, but he has a nice bit of Michael Franks in his singing.

DOE

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 10:18:11 ET
Posted by: Dave, Mass.

A little late, but here's whats currently in my CD changer.

1 Superhoney-No Standing
this a great boston area funk band
2 The Bomb Squad (feat. Jen Durkin)-Sophistafunk
the original singer for deep banana blackout funks it up with her new band
3 James Brown-greatest hits
heyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!
4 Fourplay-Yes Please
rittenour out, carlton in, good stuff. and for you drum fans, harvey mason is the real deal!
5 Duane Allman-Anthology vol. 1
boz scagg's version of "loan me a dime" is almost a religous experience

Thats it, my carousel only holds 5 discs. and the reason theres no SD in there right now is that most of it is in my car.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 10:12:36 ET
Posted by: steelydoubt,

mds i have been listening to in the last few days.

steely dan - 2vN
phish - 10/31/90
xtc - english settlement
the police - reggatta de blanc
mike gordon - inside in

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 09:49:44 ET
Posted by: Nazman, on the Chain Gang

Carlock goin on tour w/ Sting. What a coincidence.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 08:33:37 ET
Posted by: Oh Yeah....., One more thing!

Peter Q- Just caught Keith Carlock at the Bitter End this past Monday night playing with Oz. Oz does smoke! Spoke to Keith for a few seconds and told him how much I enjoyed his playing this past summer. He told me he's going out with "Sting" in January!

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 06:18:51 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Reminder to all tri state area fans, Wayne Krantz trio w. Tim Lefebrve and Keith Carlock At the 55 Bar @ Sheridan Square tonight.

Eureka, that's why Pixeleen takes the Double A down to Sherdian Sq, that's where the 55 Bar is. Duh! NYC Danheads know Don and Walt have been known to sit in at 55.

I also see that Adam Rogers and Ben Perowsky, with whom W. worked alot in the early 90s, gig at 55 regularly now as well.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 01:32:47 ET
Posted by: Theron,

Thans for the consolation. If it aint broke dont fix it I guess.
Hey, I saw a lot of people posting that they listen to Boz Scaggs so last night I broke out my Scaggs CD's - I forgot how good they were! Didn't Scaggs play w/ the New York Rock & Soul Review?

Why not have Boz Scaggs open for Steely Dan on the next tour? How cool would that be? The show would have to start at six though, because we would not want it cutting into the time Steely Dan has on stage.

Date: Thurs, October 23, 2003, 00:27:22 ET
Posted by: j de siecle, aint no cd player on the desert island

whoa, being someone who currently has a broken cd player and only a horrible walkmanish thing + a cassette player to amuse me, i must say it's living hell to read all these 5-+ cd changer posts! However, an item of note related to the non-functional cd player: I purchased it right when Kamakiriad came out, and was my first non-turntable music device...so for my first crystalline-clear cd experience I listened to Kamakiriad.

but in terms of recent listening rotation I'll defer to my collection of self- mixed cassette tapes - originally made for parties, but now being cd-disable being the extent of what I have to listen to... in a nutshell, I have 8 cassette tapes with:

-steely dan ratio of about 2/steelydan to 1/anything else, with anything else consisting of following mix (I've only listed ones that are included 2x+ )

-Miles, milestones & esp
-Coltrane, live tracks
-XTC
-Ella & Basie at Cote d'Azur
-Bruford tracks w. a. Peacock
-Tribe called Quest
-Nina simone early recordings
-Prince's 'i'll-make-Warner -add- a-new- character-to-every-font-set' eponymous album
-the goddess of the universe, a.k.a. Peggy Lee -- all eras (p.s. Peggy Lee is only 'other ' who appears in these tapes as frequently as Steely Dan)
-the Clash - the more cacophonous stuff
-Fred Astaire (later, magnificent collection of standards)
-Mary Ford & les Paul
-John McLaughlin - mahavishnu
-Pizzicato 5
-Bjork
-Sarah Vaughn early recordings

Oops that was more than ten... but the point is, believe it or not but all of the above can mix beautifully and are perfectly segueway-able w. SD tunes. Note that hese tapes were made 3+ years ago, and today I'd throw the following heavily into the rotation: Need New Body, Jane Monheit, Modest Mouse, Trans Am. It's great that this thread was initiated -- it's fun to examine what we choose to continually/ repetitively throw into the personal soundtrack mix!!

Date: Wed, October 22, 2003, 15:58:09 ET
Posted by: Woody, Ottawa

Hmmmm this sounds like we are getting into the "desert island" frame of mind with what is currently loaded onto the CD Players. Although not truly desert island stuff it is what I am presently listening to;

Larry Carlton - Fingerprints
SD - 2VN
Duke Robillard + Herb Ellis - After Hours Swing Session
Magic Sam - West Side Soul
Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blues
Little Walter - His Best

With old age I have become accustomed to being very selective with what I listen to (no radio, please no radio). Thus, I have selected three types of music genres (as you can tell) to listen to; Blues, Jazz and Steely Dan. I still like rock. I love the guitar, and a swingin toone. It's just when I am at home (or in the car) and I get to pick the music, blues, jazz and Steely Dan are at the top of the list. Not apologizing, just explaining.

Now if it is a desert island list of 10 CDs well.............

Date: Wed, October 22, 2003, 14:42:10 ET
Posted by: lp, @work

aha - see my cd post was tangentially steely dan then

thanks joey - that is a great solo she does on that song, isn't it?

Date: Wed, October 22, 2003, 14:22:42 ET
Posted by: Randy, Northern NJ / USA

While true audiophiles don't believe in CD changers (he said snootily), here are the latest listenings heard via my Nakamichi CD player (or vinyl as the case may be):

1. Ray Charles - 'The Great Ray Charles' (1957)
2. Traffic - 'As The Eagle Flies' (1974)
3. Traffic - 'The Low Spark of High-Heeled Boys' (1971)
4. Steve Winwood - 'Steve Winwood' (1977)
5. Andy Summers - 'World Gone Strange' (1991)
6. John Coltrane - 'Giant Steps' (1960)
7. Pete Townshend - 'Who Came First' (1972)
8. Slim Harpo - 'The Very Best of Slim Harpo' (2002)
9. Victor Feldman - 'The Arrival of Victor Feldman' (1958)
10. T-Bone Walker - 'The Complete Imperial Recordings' (1991)

Randy / NIGHTFLY62(at)aol.com

Date: Wed, October 22, 2003, 14:21:00 ET
Posted by: Al Coholic, hanging with John Barleycorn

LOS ANGELES - Elliott Smith, a singer-songwriter whose dark, introspective songs won him critical acclaim and an Academy Award nomination, has apparently committed suicide, his publicist and coroner's officials said Wednesday. He was 34.

He sustained a single stab wound to the chest that appeared to be self-inflicted, she said.

Lyrically, his songs addressed dark subject matter such as drug addiction, troubled relationships and loneliness — though Smith tried to distance himself from the label of confessional songwriter.

However, Smith had recently spoken in interviews about his struggles with alcoholism. "When I lived in New York I was really a 'bad alcoholic' for a few years," he told Under the Radar magazine in an interview published in June 2003.


--- apparently he has now graduated to being a good alcoholic ---

What a shame about him.....

Date: Wed, October 22, 2003, 14:10:20 ET
Posted by: bill, pittsburgh (no Dan again - sorry)

Connie cited Jon Cleary and the Absolute Monster Gentlemen! This guy is great - an Englishman who has lived in New Orleans for a couple decades and soaked up all that city's incredibly rich musical culture. He's been keyboardist for Bonnie Raitt for a few years now and before that he was in Taj Mahal's band. Both recorded a couple of his fine songs. His own band is in the funky spirit of the Meters. His keyboard work owes a lot to the late James Booker as well as Dr. John and Professor Longhair, but he plays straight jazz and blues too. He also plays excellent guitar and bass on some of his recordings including the fine "Moonburn." Oh, he also sings his ass off.

Date: Wed, October 22, 2003, 12:39:00 ET
Posted by: ( * ) ( * ), _________________________________________

Sound and Vision magazine has reviews of the Kamakiriad DVD-A, Gaucho SACD, and EMG DVD-A...all glowing reviews and the usual stuff reviewers say about the dan. i.e. irony / drugs / young women / superior musicians / great hooks, horns etc..


EMG got 5 stars
Kama got 4 1/2
Gaucho got 4 1/2


all out of 5 *****'s

Date: Wed, October 22, 2003, 12:35:43 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" on my cd player:


boz scaggs anthology (oh to be the background singer on miss sun) "

That would be none other than Ms. Lisa Dal Bello . Did she ever work with Steely Dan in the late '70s ? Fagen in the early ' 80s ????

What ?!?!?! Oh , sure ..... Here ya go ! :


http://www.dalbello.com/

Jacky !

Date: Wed, October 22, 2003, 09:05:33 ET
Posted by: Beerberian, @work

New Van the Man anyone ? 'tis a Jazzy Bluesy thang with horns to die for and some rather spiffing hammond organ all over it AND some fine geetar from an Oirish la' called Foggy Lyttle

Date: Wed, October 22, 2003, 08:56:49 ET
Posted by: lp, @work

theron - my cd player only plays one at a time - i posted the pile of cds that are resting on the player, recently played, but not put away

my cd player dates from 1987, though it's on its last leg i think

bose speakers and pine walls/ceilings makes the sound

Date: Wed, October 22, 2003, 06:54:44 ET
Posted by: Pam, Not at Best Buy

Theron: I bought our CD player in 1985 as a birthday present for my then boyfriend, now husband. It cost me $250, and it still works great. Big as a Chevy, though.....

Date: Wed, October 22, 2003, 01:13:10 ET
Posted by: Nazman, Sausalito Bay

My CD loads 10:

A Decade of Steely Dan
Pat Metheny - The Road to You
Beatles - White Album (Disc 1)
Boz Scaggs - Some Change
Steely Dan - 2vN
Bruce Cockburn - The Charity of Night
Karen Hammack and the Paul Kreibich Quartet - Lonesome Tree
Perla Batalla - Heaven and Earth
Martin Sexton - Live Wide Open
Monica Salmaso - Trampolim (Pau Brasil)

Date: Wed, October 22, 2003, 00:16:25 ET
Posted by: Theron,

I don't have a CD "changer". All I have is one of those crapy walkman type CD player things that I have to plug into the cigarette lighter in my car, complete with beeping sound when I go forward or backward to hear certain tracks. You guys suck.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 22:38:20 ET
Posted by: luckless pedestrian, @home

on my cd player:

beth orton - trailer park
joan osbourne - how sweet it is
steely dan - gaucho (remaster) and aia
soundtrack to the movie "the wonder boys"
pat metheny/david bowie - soundtrack to "the falcon and the snowman"
boz scaggs anthology (oh to be the background singer on miss sun)

and, since i have kids:
carole king - really rosie (over and over and over...)

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 22:00:06 ET
Posted by: Connie, home from the vineyard

PQ -
Yes they are twins - Wayne, tenor sax and Nelson, bass.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 21:52:01 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

I am impressed that Connie has the Braxton Bros!!!!! Are they twins? I remember one played bass and the other sax.

Even more impressed by jw's Miroslav Vitous album!!!!! Do you have Trio, Live in Europe - Chick Corea, piano, Vitous, bass, Roy Haynes, drums?

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 21:42:46 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Joey with the Spyro Gyra! Free Time, City Kids and Incognito carried forward the genre of music B & F basically invented on Aja.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 21:36:40 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Kid Clean - yes, definitely, though some of the lecture material is probably college level or higher. Maybe a 12 year old would prefer the video version. Check it out on www.teach12.com

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 21:35:53 ET
Posted by: jw,

DISCS CURRENTLY RECEIVING A LOT OF SPINS:

Everything Must Go - Haven't been able to stop listening to it since June 10 and before, when I was able to play it on my p.c. from the Steely Dan website. A great album, pure and simple, as good as Donald and Walter's best, (Aja; Gaucho). IMHO, EMG is one the best pop albums ever!

Rickie Lee Jones - The Evening Of My Best Day
Edie Brickell - Volcano
Miroslav Vitous - Universal Syncopations
Tomasz Stanko - Soul Of Things
Genesis - Selling England By The Pound
Pat Metheny - One Quiet Night
Janis Ian - Between The Lines (rediscovered masterpiece)

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 21:31:15 ET
Posted by: Connie, home from the vineyard

Single disc player -

1. Jon Cleary and the Absolute Monster Gentlemen

and the pile next to the CD player

2. Showbiz Kids - SD
3. Marvin Gaye Anthology
4. Dueces Wild - BB King
5. The Dirty Boogie - Brian Setzer Orchestra
6. Steppin' Out - The Braxton Brothers
7. EMG - SD

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 21:28:34 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Molly - Bud Powell is the pianist you're talking about, and he had his last nervous breakdown in the incident you refer to. With Bird, Diz, and Max Roach on the drums, the original beboppers.

By the way, since everyone here seemed to enjoy the drums on the Dan tour, the disc Survivors by Max Roach, which is only solo drums, is like nothing else ever attempted. He actually riffs on the drums.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 20:45:05 ET
Posted by: Scotty (at work), Sydney

In the car changer I made up 6 discs that contain all 9 SD albums, plus Kama and a few AIA tracks as well as FM and Here At The Western World. The only fiddling I do is to occasionally adjust the volume......Bliss

Jimmy Witherspoon, Steve Edmonds, Banana Oil and as of yesterday, the DVD-A's of Nightfly and 2VN have been playing on the home system.

I'm still in awe at the sound of these DVD-A's.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 17:17:15 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, London, trying to remember what's in the CD deck

Lastest items:

- EMG
- New York Salsa Festival, Vol 1
- Go-Go's "Beauty & the Beat" (Saw them at Lake Tahoe in August)
- Home-made eclectic mix (Artie Shaw, McCartney, Asleep at the Wheel, Mandy Moore, Spin Doctors, Kenny Rankin, Turtles, Carlene Carter etc etc -- I said eclectic)
- Louis Prima/Keely Smith/Sam Butera - Greatest Hits
- SD Citizen, vol 1

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 16:18:49 ET
Posted by: My Old Man, back in Oregon

Aw, come on Dad, can't we, please? Guidelines are just guidelines, right?

Oh, okay...

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 16:07:32 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Hey you know, I get paged out of a meeting and find out it's someone complaining that under a thin veil some of you are basically trading bootlegs here. Aside from the time this bullshit takes away from me, you realize how stupid you are to be posting that, not to mention your email?

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 15:43:31 ET
Posted by: Pam, I Am

No CD changer yet, but the current pile of CDs by my player is:

EMG
Royal Scam
Nightfly
Who - Quad Disk 1
Beatles - Abbey Road
Who - Soundtrack to Kids are Alright
Elvis - #1 (hey, my son digs Elvis)

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 15:42:36 ET
Posted by: Javier, Miami

Hi new to the board.


Changer contents:

Steve Winwood - About Time (amazing new album)
Ben Folds - Rockin the suburbs (delightful piano based rock)
Wilco - Being There (superb 2 disc set from most underated band alive)
Rolling Stones - Let it Bleed
Police - Synchronicity
Donald Fagen - Kamakiriad


...and of course on reserve always Little Feat - Waiting for Columbus.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 15:32:09 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" If "A Friend Of Andy Metzger's" from PHX, AZ could contact me off list it would be most appreciated. I had a question about your CD changer's contents. "

What " Dave " said ...................................Me too please .


Word ! , G !

J. !

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 15:28:05 ET
Posted by: danfiend,

The Singers Unlimited Box set:
Disk 1
Disk 2
Disk 3
Disk 4
Disk 5
Disk 6

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 14:41:37 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Bill & RCray - Cripes who knew? I don't really even know the names of the songs on YHF, it was just one of those things in the car that got played over and over. Now I've got to figure this out...

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 14:34:44 ET
Posted by: Bloodhound, on the scent

Yes, AFOAM, I think we'd all like to talk to you......


sniff, sniff, sniff

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 14:32:04 ET
Posted by: KC, blah

I recall seeing great reviews for YHF but never really took a listen, after all this buzz I'm gonna have to check it out.

Bill - you've got mail


KC

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 14:22:51 ET
Posted by: dave,

If "A Friend Of Andy Metzger's" from PHX, AZ could contact me off list it would be most appreciated. I had a question about your CD changer's contents.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 14:08:19 ET
Posted by: bill, pittsburgh

Kid:
I tried to email you but it bounced. Send me a note to the address listed here and I'll get back to you.

Sorry to bother everyone else.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 14:07:44 ET
Posted by: RCray, Eurasia

I know this isn't a Wilco forum but they did cover a dan tune.

Also, that album (YHF) is amazingly produced and I believe they brought in a pro for just that album. Jesus, etc. is one of the greatest songs ever written in my opinion.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 14:00:53 ET
Posted by: Bill/Pittsburgh, Wilco - no Dan content

Please forgive the big chunk of non-Dan blather below, but I also love Yankee Hotel Foxtrot and sent this to the local newspaper reviewer who is a major fan of theirs once I finally got it and "got" it. P.S. I also hear a lot of Ray Davies in Tweedy.

* * *

I finally got a copy of Wilco's brilliant Yankee Hotel Foxtrot (as a Valentine's Day gift, no less) and can't get it out of my head. As I know you have been consistently championing this CD I need to tell somebody that I also "get" what Jeff Tweedy was trying to do, although I can also see why Reprise and the narrow-minded Grammy folks didn't (and this is as a lifelong Steely Dan fan too).

YHF could have easily been a safe collection of conventionally recorded, well crafted folk-pop songs like Mermaid Avenue Vol. 1 and 2, and may have even won some awards that way, but would not have had nearly the impact. The songs stand up well on their own unadorned. But instead, Tweedy and company have carefully constructed a concept album that sustains an auditory metaphor in a many-layered way that only gets more interesting with repeated listenings. I heard Tweedy discussing the origins of the title on World Cafe and remembered hearing something about the mysterious shortwave "number stations," and that turns out to be the key to the whole puzzle. (Wasted a couple hours surfing the net and learning about them, too.) The underlying theme of this CD is communication, or the failure of communication, specifically fractured communication in a disintegrating relationship, represented by the sounds of elaborately coded, one-way messages truly "broad-cast" into the air without any way to determine if they have been understood, let alone received, by their target. This works well on the surface level of two people trying in vain to communicate with each other in an intimate way, but at the next level it can also represent every artist's battle to reach an audience and have a complex message heard and properly appreciated. (Just remember Reagan adopting "Born in the U.S.A." or Bush using "Won't Get Fooled Again" on the campaign trail to see how easily a message can be twisted to mean its exact opposite.) That way it also becomes a metaphor for the CD's well-documented difficulties in reaching the market.

A low tech, cold-war relic technology is also a powerful symbol in these days of instant electronic communication and information overload. The ghostly sample of the broadcast repeating "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" over the end of "Poor Places" sounds like intentional jamming of the narrators' message, also a common occurrence in the shadowy world of number stations.

Then there's "I'm the Man Who Loves You," an exuberant, somewhat mainstream love song punctuated by some of the most jagged, ugly, dissonant and downright angry acid-rock guitar ever to appear on a major label record. I heard that one on the radio and initially reacted, like I suspect Reprise did, "this would be a great song without that crappy guitar part." Now I can't hear it without it. It's as if one side of the conflicted narrator is professing his devotion while the other side is screaming at his lover in rage, "Goddammit, I'm the bleeping man who bleeping loves you! Why can't you understand that!" It's part of the text of the song. In the space of one tune this goes from the exhilaration of Sgt. Pepper to the despair of Tonight's the Night. The whole record is like that. I can't even think of another recording that pulled that off in a single song. Maybe A Day In The Life but that took the likes of both a Lennon and a McCartney plus George Martin.

Using noise, electronica and dissonance are hip, gimmicky production tricks these days but here they are integral to the songs and the underlying narrative, which is one of loss and frustration. So much has been made of Beck's love life and the CD it produced, but nobody seems to be asking what the hell happened to Tweedy to produce a work of such emotional depth.

Finally, I can't help note that despite all the references to the Beatles (especially the White Album and "I Want You/She's So Heavy"), Radiohead, Pink Floyd, U2's Achtung Baby, etc., nobody seems to have noticed how much Tweedy's voice recalls Ray Davies all over the place, especially in the one song that seems to stand apart from the rest of the concept/story, the nostalgic "Heavy Metal Drummer," which could be an updated and Americanized "Come Dancing." You, of all people, haven't even mentioned that connection and I know Davies is God to you. (I am also a big fan of his). Maybe you don't hear it but I do.

Anyway, this CD won't leave my player for a while and might still be selling briskly in a few decades like Dark Side of the Moon - it's in that league.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 14:00:23 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, Total Evaporation

Bill - A friend of mine turned me on to the Radiators a few years back. They're music has a great 'feel'. They play up here frequently at a little place called Shank Hall (named after the famed establishment in This is Spinal Tap). However, they always seem to be playing on a night when I can't make it. Drop me a line.

KC

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 13:54:35 ET
Posted by: Bill, Pittsburgh

The Radiators - MOMs Ball, 2003 (unlike some bands, these guys actively encourage trading of soundboard recordings)
B.B. King - Spotlight on Lucille (all instrumentals)
Phil Woods - Into The Woods
Chuck Prophet - No Other Love
Little Feat - Waiting For Columbus expanded reissue

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 13:42:27 ET
Posted by: Phoenix Dan Fan, Phoenix

Any friend of Andy's is a friend of mine.

To the gentleman with fine musical taste from Phoenix, drop me a line sometime and we can get a Phoenix Dan Clan going.

The Phoenician

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 13:21:50 ET
Posted by: angel,

According to Roger Nichols, there were always 2 versions of the song. The one with the sax solo, was used for the end credits, of the movie, FM. The one with the guitar solo, was on the soundtrack album and I believe it is on the Decade of Steely Dan album. The sax solo is definitely on SD Gold and SD Citizen.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 13:10:19 ET
Posted by: Rcray, __

Thanks....I heard that version with the sax on the radio and I was shocked because I hadn't heard it before.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 12:51:34 ET
Posted by: Russ,

RCray, yes there are two versions of FM. On the original FM soundtrack album, there was "FM" which had Walter's wonderful guitar soloing on the outtro of the song, and "FM Reprise" which featured Pete Christlieb's sax playing. When the Steely Dan Gold reissue CD came out, MCA apparently decided to take some creative license to rewrite history, and they spliced the sax solo from "FM Reprise" onto the original "FM" song, eliminating Walter's solo from the end. Frankly speaking I prefer the way it was originally recorded. You can hear the original FM (with guitar) on the Decade Of Steely Dan CD, or of course on the movie soundtrack.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 12:47:05 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, O-T-L

Ran to the local Pick'n'Save to pick up some lunch stuffs. Peg was cranking out of the speakers. Got a few weird looks as I riffed along with the solo on a Klements 'yard o' beef' summer sausage. Life is grand!

KC

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 12:32:15 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Yeah - I was so pleasantly surprised by the Wilco record. A friend of my son-in-law foisted it on me after being Steely Danned to death by yours truly. (the kids just hate SD, I've failed somehow) He also played me other Wilco albums and you can definitely hear a progression toward more complex musical structures. I've worn that Yankee Hotel out and recommend it highly.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 12:24:49 ET
Posted by: Jive Miguel, Bogota

Wilco covered Any Major Dude and jeff Tweedy mentioned that he loved that song.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 12:23:02 ET
Posted by: Rcray, nYu

Rajah,

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot is probably one of the best albums of the decade.

Becker and Fagen have mentioned in an interview as music they are listening to...that being said > the story behind it is even greater.

It only gets better with repeated listening.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 11:42:28 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

In my CD Player in the Car :

1. The Royal Scam
2. The WHO Live ( Denver 2002 -- Soundboard )
3. Best of Spyro Gyra
4. Best of Pablo Cruise
5. Boz Scaggs " Silk Degrees " ( Limited Release 20th Anniversary Gold Edition ! )
6. Steely Dan Live ( Roseland Ballroom 2003 -- Soundboard )

Ah , I am just teasing about that last one . Heh Heh !!!!!

Jacky !

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 11:34:12 ET
Posted by: A Friend Of Andy Metzger's, PHX, AZ

In my 6 player changer.(This is a Steely Dan site.... Right?)

1- Steely Dan Live- St Louis 1993
2- Steely Dan Live- Irvine 1994
3- Steely Dan Live- Roseland (Sunday night) 1995
4- Steely Dan Live- Rotterdam 1996
5- Steely Dan Live- Jones Beach (Friday night) 2000
6- Steely Dan Live- Maui 2003

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 11:33:49 ET
Posted by: molly, ca

BTW-lil Mingus story-was playing with Parker and another troubled piano player (name escapes me now, help me out-I know someone knows it..) and Parker was doped out as was the piano player, and they were barely playing...Mingus at one point stops and says,"People please don't associate me with this, this is not jazz.." and walked off, Parker kept calling for him.....Man, Mingus had it in his soul, gotta love him..

-mollydolly

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 11:28:38 ET
Posted by: molly, ca

Peter Q-nope, those tracks are not on mine-It's actually the double LP-no changer so these are the ones in heavy rotation between the car and the house....title track always kicks my ass tho, and was telling dianeDianeDIANE about her song on there too...I know, Dylan to Mingus, what can I say, I can be pretty moody....great selections everyone and once again love coming here to be enlightened...

-mollydolly

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 11:23:11 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

RCRAY Love that Wilco album. I don't think the singer has found his true voice yet. He still sometimes sounds like Jerry Garcia, sometimes Ray Davies.

If memory serves, the version of FM on the Gold collection is different from the old single, sax on the Gold version, I think.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 11:17:22 ET
Posted by: RCray, NYU

Are there two versions of "FM"?

One with a guitar solo and one with a sax solo???


IF so, where can the different versions be found?


My rotation:

Wilco - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
Dead - Dicks Picks Harpur College 1978
EMG
Pat Metheny - Works
Flaming Lips - Yoshimi battles the Pink Robots

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 10:52:08 ET
Posted by: Atlantic, NYC

1 - The Band, Rock of Ages
2 - Waylon Jennings, Waylon Live
3 - Outkast, Speakerboxxx
4 - George Jones, The Spirit of Country (Disc 1)
5 - Walter Becker, 11 tracks of Whack
6 - SD, Aja (as if that ever comes out of the cd player)

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 10:47:57 ET
Posted by: Little Wild One, alone @ last

Currently rotating:

1. "Gaucho" (something old)
2. "Waiting for my Rocket to Come" Jason Mraz (something new)
3. Disc 1 Some obscure Chicago concert circa '93(something borrowed)
4. Disc 2 "
5. "Mingus Ah Um" (you know)
6. "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" (DBB is back)

The remedy for the blues....

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 10:39:02 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Kid C-I have the remaster of the 1974 recording by Wonder. It's a great CD, jazz, funk, soul, and the angry, jabbing "You Haven't Done Nuthin'" directed at Nixon. Recorded in the midst of that run of successful 70's albums like "Innervisions" and "Music of My Mind". Lots of that music, ironically, would be so relevant today, particularly that on "Fulfillingness".

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 10:29:42 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, @work

Gretchen - Is that Stevie Wonder disc a newer release? I don't think I've seen that one?

PQ - Are those discs like a lecture series? My son is actually a fan of classical music, would that be something a 12 year old could get something from?

KC

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 10:28:11 ET
Posted by: Dan Belcher, Louisville, KY

Katy Lied
Two Against Nature
Everything Must Go
The Stranger - Billy Joel
Live at Leeds - The Who
Losing Sleep - The Muckrakers (local band. check them out: www.themuckrakers.com)

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 10:16:40 ET
Posted by: jon,

Rotating:
Dead--Two from the Vault
Steve Earle--Train A Comin'
SD--Everything Must Go
Treasury of Bluegrass
Miles Davis--Kind of Blue
Best of Badfinger

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 10:14:43 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Molly's selections are interesting, going from whine n cheese like Tangled Up In Blue to the insane frenzy of Pithecanthropous Erectus, Haitian Fight Song, etc. of Mingus. Are those on the disc of Better Git It In Your Soul you have?

Factoid: Charles Mingus was the only musician ever fired from Duke Ellington's orchestra.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 09:59:33 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

In my current rotation:

John McLaughlin-Electric Guitarist
Stevie Wonder-Fulfillingness First Finale
Joni Mitchell-Shadows and Light
SD-Royal Scam
Brian Auger and Oblivion Express
Doobie Brothers-Living on the Fault Line

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 09:01:16 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, Hmmmm

Interesting results everyone. Seems that there are common threads throughout.

SoH - No DAN???? I know it's possible, I just don't understand it. lol.

I recently picked up a cd boom box (who the hell calls them that anymore?) with mp3 capabilities. When I get to work, I start it up and can have 7 hours of continous Dan. All the lp's, piano jazz, various rare cuts and a couple of live shows. Yeah, I give up a little in sound quality but quantity counts for something, doesn't it?

KC

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 08:17:03 ET
Posted by: fife, ontario

6 that are in rotation now:
2vn, SD
Feelings, David Byrne
Showbiz Kids Disc 1, SD
Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere, Neil Young
Once In A Lifetime, Talking Heads
Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy, Elton John

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 07:04:20 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Don't have a changer..

Last six I played:

A Decade of Steely Dan
Miles Davis Greatest Hits
Soultrane (Coltrane)
Yellow Brick Road (E.John)
Close to the Edge (Yes)
ESP (Miles)

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 06:19:42 ET
Posted by: Beerberian, Frosty UK

Travelogue – Blues Traveler
What’s wrong with this picture? – Van the Man Morrison
Pretzel Logic – Steely Dan
The Thorns – The Thorns
Heartbreaker – Free
Show- Allison Moorer

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 05:39:19 ET
Posted by: fezo, morning fog

Manic Nirvana, Robert Plant
The Pros and Cons of Hitchkiking, Roger Waters
The Incredible Jazz Guitar, Wes Montgomery
Perfect Strangers, Deep Purple
Two Against Nature, Our Heroes

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 04:33:21 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

How To Listen To and Understand Great Music, vols. 1-6, Professor Robert Greenberg, San Francisco Symphony Orchestra.

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 02:13:16 ET
Posted by: Laina, slow and steady wins the race...

Well, I don't have a 6-CD changer, but all the CDs in my car include...

Steely Dan - a 17-track mix I made w/stuff like "I Got The News", "Mr. Sam", "Glamour Profession" and "Caves of Altamira" on it.

Steely Dan - another mix I made, that I call "The Royal Scam + Eight". Also has Caves on it. I can't make an SD mix w/o Caves.

Outkast - Big Boi & Dre Present...Outkast. (Greatest Hits)

Another mix I made w/ Imani Coppola, Interpol, Cheb Mami, Nikka Costa, Madison Avenue, Kosheen, etc.

Jack Johnson - 8/10/03 in San Diego. *sigh* Sooooo chill.

Lainalove

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 01:36:15 ET
Posted by: molly, ca

1.SD-EMG
2.Bob Dylan-Blood on the Tracks
3.John Coltrane & Johnny Hartman
4.SD-Gaucho
5.Charles Mingus-Better Git it in Your Soul

Thats me, in rotation now...

-mollydolly

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 00:54:59 ET
Posted by: HeyMike, the Cubbie Bear-Kittie Corner from Wrigley Field

1) Royal Scam-Steely Dan
2) The Nightfly-Donald Fagen
3) Poetic Champions Compose-Van Morrison
4) Johnny Cash-Giant Hits
5) Prime Prine-the best of John Prine

dig it

Date: Tues, October 21, 2003, 00:10:07 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

1-Hittin the Note -Allman Bros.
2-Out to Lunch - Eric Dolphy
3-Live - Alison Krauss
4-The Nightfly - Lester
5-Jobim Songbook - various artists

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 23:27:51 ET
Posted by: SouthOfHollywood, Betty Ford Clinic

Interesting question, KC...My changer currently holds:

1. Grant Lee Phillips "Copperopolis"
2. Rickie Lee Jones "The Evening Of My Best Day"
3. Fountains Of Wayne "Welcome Interstate Managers"
4. Everything But The Girl "Amplified Heart"
5. Steve Edmunds "Medium Cool"
6. Warren Bernhardt "Amelia's Song"

BTW...If you have not heard RLJ's new one, do yourself a huge favor and pick it up...Better than anything she's done since "Pirates" and maybe even better than that...SOH

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 23:02:21 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, in the sheaves

On a whim, what is in everyone's 6 disc cd changer, RIGHT NOW! (if you don't have one, just imagine you do)

1 - Jimi Hendrix - Blues
2 - S.D. - Everything Must Go
3 - Cake - Cake's Fashion Nugget
4 - Talking Heads - Sand in the Vasoline Disc 1
5 - Led Zep - Physical Graffiti Disc 1
6 - Led Zep - Physical Graffiti Disc 2

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 22:40:07 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Is this it, Peter? http://thenewjazzthing.com/2003/08/27.html#a1070

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 22:19:10 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Bruce and Bill, I think my point was that the intonation of the tone doesn't match the third, fifth, and seventh degrees of a European tuning system.

Bruce, re lyrics, go to feverdreams.net and click on the dagger and candle.

Re: Dan and jazz...that station in San Diego that did the special has a great web page on this subject, I didn't bookmark it and now can't find it but it basically says how when Coltrane, Orentte Coleman, Eric Dolphy, Archie Shepp et al started the "New Thing" B&F moved away from jazz to R&B and pop.

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 22:06:54 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

I believe the reason you hear SD on Sirius and XM satellite so much (that's what you hear in stores and malls) is because the vj's are musicians. I hold the old lady has some chicken heads waiting for me when I get home.

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 21:07:37 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, at home - need sleep

Sorry if already posted - saw while watching pro football on Fox yesterdays for a preview of the season premier of That 70's show - I've never watched thank God - having graduated from HS in 76 I'd just as soon forget the 70's (except for the music) than watch some show that may be way to similar to my life. Anyway they played Reeling in the Years for the whole lenght of the add. I'm sure D&W get some royalties for that.

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 18:50:31 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Dan in public: Went with the family to a pretty nice country club for dinner a couple months ago. As we arrived, I noticed an arpeggio riff being played by the piano player that had a striking familiarity. Upon closer listening: it was Reelin' -- in an arrangement I would have never anticipated in a proverbial million years.
He proceeded to tinkle through Do it Again and a couple other early Dan numbers.

East St Louey: Bill, you may have a better answer, or an additional influence. My theory has been that it's a thematic follow-up to Barrytown (the previous cut). ESL, I believe, is the "wrong side of the river" to the more proper (West) St Louis. (Like here in the Bay Area, East Palo Alto is the ghetto town compared to its more famous sister city.)
So you could read it: "Over there in E St L they do things very strange..."
The wah-wah on that IS amazing. Once heard the Ellington recording and the Dan version is extremely close -- even with such widely different instrumentation.

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 18:07:15 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

I never thought Walter's playing would elicit this much watercooler talk. What would you say if I were to describe Walter's style at this juncture as controlled and conservative? Thoughtful and tasteful? He does make Don's live presentation look like it's coming from groove-monkey-ville by comparison. Don's pretty funny sometimes with that stuff.

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 17:23:21 ET
Posted by: bill, pittsburgh, again

Not sure about Walter being a rigg-nerd, despite the fact that he claims to read effects unit manuals on the road. My only complaint about his recent work is that his tone doesn't change much. A couple exceptions such as the envelope follower sound on Green Book (also known as the Garcia-wah). He doesn't get a nasty bite to his sound any more like he did on Black Friday (listen to the melody and you'll know it's him) or Pretzel Logic. He certainly has all the gear to get it if he wants it, so I suspect he doesn't want that sound, or when it's called for he gives the nod to Jon. Of course I didn't hear this year's tour so it may have been different on stage than in prior years.

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 17:18:24 ET
Posted by: Bill , Pittsburgh

Nobody has mentioned this yet, but my theory is that this song is prominently mentioned in a passage from Naked Lunch. Somehing about boys sitting in trees, doing something referred to obliquely in Rose Darling. Can't find the passage on Google. I also recall that Donald said in an interview that Walter had been fooling around with duplicating the muted trumpet melody on wah-wah guitar as far back as their college days.

>>Curious to know: Of all the Ellington songs (or many other artists') SD could have covered, the only one has been East St Louis Toodle-oo. I have a theory why it was that song on that album and that cut -- but would like first to see if anyone else has had their own idea.

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 16:44:41 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" He's a rigg-nerd and knows all the toys inside and out. He's an HUGE dude, huge and there is NO Steely Dan sans Walty. "

......and there is NO Steely Dan concert for the Joey sans dope .



" My goodness, the Godwhacker's contrapuntal bass and lead guitar lines are thrilling. Walter is one bluesy white boy and, again, the steel in Dan. "

My Rajah , when you write so lucidly as this , I want to nibble your elbows .

Joey !

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 16:33:25 ET
Posted by: Laina, keepin' it moving

I went to the laundromat late Saturday night, and heard Black Cow.

That's a good topic for discussion, Rajah, as to why SD's music (of all music) gets so much play in commercial retail establishments. Hmmm. Good afternoon! :o)

Lainalove

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 15:07:00 ET
Posted by: Pam, I Am

And I do my much-detested food shopping at SuperFresh, not ShopRite because I've heard much SD and IGY/New Frontier at the Fresh. Hmmm....

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 15:01:47 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Considering their recent statements about capitalism and the media becoming an organ of the state, I find it very bizarre that SD music is everywhere in the retail commercial establishments all over America. Somebody ought to do a study as to why their music rates so well in that setting. I mean, what does that say? Mindboggling.

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 14:53:49 ET
Posted by: angel,

Heard at Walmart 2 Sunday's in a row at 7:15AM -- Deacon Blues. Do you think they are mistaking it for a religious song?

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 14:33:22 ET
Posted by: Pam, I Am

My kids and I were out at a local pizza joint yesterday. The owners' TV was on a cabinet behind our heads, and my 8 year old son says, "Hey mom, they're playing that Steely Dan song, 'Really in the Ears'!". I looked up and it was a 'That 70's Show' commercial.
Yes son, it really is in the ears.....

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 10:53:57 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Catching up with Dandom.

I have seen several interviews, some posted or linked to here in the past, where Donald and/or Walter say Steely Dan is definitely not jazz, more so recently.

Still, it's pretty much a given to many fans that SD is hugely influenced by Jazz (and blues) and it's also clear that SD is a "gateway drug" to jazz.

jim

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 09:52:20 ET
Posted by: Bruce Miles, Vegas

Re: Peter et. al...

I'm afraid I don't understand your question.
Please write again to clarify it if you wish. Anyway, these are what "blue notes" are:

1) Playing a "minor" or "flat" third (minor and flat mean the same thing,) against a dominant chord, which has a "major" third. So, the soloist plays minor while the band plays a major third.
2) A flat fifth. (usually played from above or below in chromatic fashion.
3)a minor or flat seventh. (also in the mixylydian mode or seventh scale which can be used in blues too.)

I jumped the gun before when I categorized SD as a Jazz band.
To make it clearer, I would say that when they first started out
they were less sophisticated harmonically (no crime at all) and so wrote more rock oriented songs.
As the years progressed, apparently Donald and Walter, learned
to write more harmonically sophisticated stuff. Now Donald arranges his own horns. I call that one hell of an achievement.

Now there are snobby guys out there that will adamantly say that SD is, was, and will always be about rock and nothing more.
I say these are closed minded fools who are missing a lot by keeping their ears closed!
There's a phrase I used for many years and mistakenly thought I had coined it. Instead it was spoken by the great Louis "Satchmo" Armstrong who said,"There are only two styles of music.Good and Bad."
How true!! Louis didn't like bebop or modern jazz by the way.
He stopped evolving at swing. And he was one of the cats who literally started it all!
So when I listen to music, I ask myself one question.
Is it good or is it bad.
And by the way, you can only accurately tell whether music is good or not if you're at the point where you know half of it by heart, and the other half is unknown.
There were studies done at Harvard which determined just this.
So before you hang up that difficult Mahler Symphony or whatever, give it a chance. The greatest music in the world requires some "listening"
to! Otherwise you just cannot appreciate it.
When people used to tell me how great the classics or jazz were,
I just didn't get it.

When you hear the classics on the radio it's no wonder you don't like it. You've only heard it once! You have to buy the music and listen to it over and over. Then you will come to realize why people have been saying all these years that "some" of the classics are great. I say some, because not all of everyting is good.
But as you go from rock to jazz, to the classics, the percentage of good music dramatically increases.
And all the classics are not hard! Some are simple, beautiful little melodies.
Now I'll get off my soap box and stop preaching!
But please take my advice.
You are really missing a world of music that can take you to nirvana and back! All you need do is listen! A lot more than once! 'Till you can hum half of it!
And I must say too, that for any years I ignored lyrics!
These beautiful gems were standing at my feet, and I refused to pick them up! Then about a year ago I started REALLY LISTENING to SD's lyrics, and man, what an awakening! What beautiful, magical stuff.
Am I right when I attribute most of them to Walter Becker?
Anyway, they're great and so sophisticated! Sometimes you've got to be an encryptionist to decipher what they mean. But that's only part of the fun! And again, listening again and again is the key to understanding them!

-Bruce

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 09:44:31 ET
Posted by: angel,

Back to Pinetop Perkins and Becker/Fagen. Ida B and Anna Lee = Ida Lee?

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 08:05:07 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Yeah Bruce but isn't it so that on alot of Walter's solos the tones are alot of blue notes that you really can't say if they are major or minor? With alot of AABA form thrown behind if I'm not mistaken?

Date: Mon, October 20, 2003, 06:59:03 ET
Posted by: Bruce Miles, Vegas

SD is a Jazz group by virtue of the chords used in their melodies.
So they have rock sounding guitar solos: the notes in the solos usually speak of jazz.
As far as "Blues Walter" goes (if you know music, as I do) you'd realize that the bles scale works with just about every chord: jazz,
showmusic, whatever. But Walter injects some Jazz into his solos as well, although it is primarily blues. I might have jumped too quick if I said he's strictly a blues-man.
Although, to confuse the matter more, jazz came from blues, (and became more complex). Rock came from blues (and got louder.)
So it's really hard to pigeonhole a player as one thing or the other.
Now Wes Montgomery was a great jazz player with a blues influence.
Sort of the anithesis of Walter. Go check him out and you'll see where Benson, and just about every Jazz/blues player today got influenced.
And...he was self taught. But so was Benson, Carlton, (for the most part)etc., etc.
-Bruce

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 23:58:19 ET
Posted by: oleander, digging out

Hello one and all--

The meds finally are kicking in--had to start Deludin again after Hurricane Isabel made me miss the Atlanta show.

Congratulations to The Duo and friends for another spectacular tour.

Anybody watch "nip/tuck"? In one recent show, the rake with intermittent scruples went to a porn purveyor's party, where the ambient music was "Peg." Besides my usual delight at hearing unexpected Dan, I was impressed at their use of it--they actually understand the song.

Also recently have heard "Janie Runaway," "Negative Girl," and "Tomorrow's Girls" on my rounds....

Any word on the next tour?

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 22:47:30 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Pinetop a major dude. Born in -wait for it - Belzoni, Mississippi. As to High Heel Sneakers, is it : "Put on your high heeled sneakers, put that wig-hat on your head...?"

Mind void as to a deeper meaning to the selection of "E. St. Louis Too-de-loo"

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 21:56:30 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Curious to know: Of all the Ellington songs (or many other artists') SD could have covered, the only one has been East St Louis Toodle-oo. I have a theory why it was that song on that album and that cut -- but would like first to see if anyone else has had their own idea.

Care to share or speculate?

PQ -- Don't go passive-aggressive on us. No one I know of has used that kind of language about you. If Joey were here I'm sure he'd give you a nuzzle ...

Gretchen -- Did you really bail on us or are you still out there??!!

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 20:28:46 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

No Rajah, not kidding, legend of the blues piano. Just type in his name on your search engine and see how many sites come up. Pinetop Perkins even has a song called High Heel Sneakers, on the album Pinetop's Boogie. Maybe he copped it from FM.

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 19:51:32 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Peter - You're not kidding us with that "Pinetop Perkins" are you? Didn't think so. I can see I'm going to have to cowboy up, if you will, on my meager knowledge of jazz to offset your arrogant bastardage.

Now you know how Don often has referred to buying and playing the same set of a dozen or so jazz albums? Does that ring a bell? My query: what are those 12 or so albums?

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 17:44:05 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Jerry Jones is right on! Great post, a bolt from the blue. And IMHO even the way the piano is layered underneath the constant riffing on the guitar on, say, Last Mall is modeled after the way Pinetop Perkins used to play the piano underneath Hubert Sumlin's guitar. But then us arrogant pieces of shit could be wrong about that too.

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 17:30:39 ET
Posted by: Lee, In analysis

I like the analysis. That is one of the prime reasons I come to this site. I have learned a heck of a lot from reading the varying opinions. One can easily filter out any perceived arrogance and still get the the main thrust of any posting. You know, you don't have to read what you don't like. Let's see....take out the analysis and what's left? Quite a bit, maybe, but much, much less of interest. Again, read what you like and skip the rest. Why is that so difficult? Would some of you decide for all of us what we should see? That role is reserved for Hoops. It's his site, and his right to do so, but even HE minimizes such an approach.

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 17:23:12 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Jerry - Boz & Feat...now we're getting somewhere.

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 16:54:21 ET
Posted by: Jerry Jones,

Walter listened, but Little Feat and Boz Scaggs lived and breathed jJmmy Johnson

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 14:51:46 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Mu - more like Jimmy Johnson, Bar Room Preacher. I don't know 100% but I would bet you WB listens to that CD alot.

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 14:33:36 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase, L.A.

Mu Mu - And so it is revealed. Didn't think anyone remembered either of the Albert Kings.

I'm sitting in Bryant Park one afternoon somewhere in the late 80s, crazy drunk bum comes by and overhears me playing Show Biz Kids on my Walkman. Approaches, takes one side of my headphones away from my ear and says, "for the coup-de-gras, they're outrageous." Not until very recently, Y2K, did I truly appreciate what he said.

Abu - obviously, we do. Welcome, you arrogant bastard!

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 14:28:47 ET
Posted by: Abu, Roppongi

I see the "experts" are alive and well. Do you amuse yourself with your original thoughts?

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 13:56:27 ET
Posted by: DoctorMu, talkin' 'bout the blues

Rajah: that's the Nexus of the PeterQ personna, the alter ego of Meal Reviewer, - the stereotypical obnoxious, white know-it-all Steely Dan fan....lol..it's a put-on or at least I think it is - he is correct of course about Walter's guitar...because.....uhhhh, well, if nothing else Walter has said so in interviews!

but then announcing to the Bluebook now that WB is a blues-based guitarist is as novel as saying Professional Wrestling is fake lol, especially as the influences cited by Walter and Donald in the past few years over and over in interviewsand inductions have primarily been Blues artists. Just listen: EMG and TvN are just Steeped in Blues and the Stax rhythm section. Whereas the jazz accents on TvN and heavily 50s cool jazz and Miles Davis, EMG jazz accents are 40s jazz and 40s blues/jazz as discussed on Marian McPartland's Piano Jazz episode with Steely Dan early this year...the accents on Royal Scam and Aja were really 50s and 60s LA Jazz (derivative of NY Cool Jazz) played by 70s contemporary jazz artists heavy on the ear candy...


...yes before there was Robert Cray there was Otis Rush Willie Dixon, Muddy Waters, Gatemouth Brown, John Lee Hooker, Clifton Chenier, Magic Sam, Chuck Berry, Albert Collins (a fave), Albert King (not only a great blues guitarist but quick small forward who played for Maryland and brother of the great Bernard King ;-) ), and even Johnny Winter and Elvin Bishop...

Steely Dan fans generally come in a few types - some are fans of 70s classic rock like Pink Floyd, some are more fans of black R&B, blues, and jazz...there are a few that dig the lyrics and probably think that they W&D have actually finshed Naked Lunch cover to cover (they're avid readers alright, but the book sucks - good for a joke or two) who probably think Pretzel Logic is they're best album...

That reminds me (not that I really keep up), but RS used to rate PL the highest, started with Aja at 3 stars, covered up in the 90s moving up to 5 - is it really down to 4 now?! CTE now 5 stars hmmm... Gaucho started at 4 1/2 stars in 1980 and has been a victim of revisionist history back to something like 2 1/2 stars!

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 13:39:12 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, Near Hallowed Concord, CA

Raj-

Alas, you are correct...

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 13:24:40 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Well said my pivotal one, it is all about tone, how you put your point across. But hey, we all sound like assholes sometimes. IMHO, of course.

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 13:16:15 ET
Posted by: Q,

Rajah/PQ - Amen WB

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 12:50:29 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Rajah- I would never fault our friend PQ (or you or anyone) for knowledge. As in so many communication events, it's the tone that makes the difference. (Plus the implication that "you don't know what I know so jeez you're ignorant.") PeterQ -- your posts are certainly informed and provocative and that's a wonderful thing!

In this case, the blues influence PQ notes -- added to the ongoing jazz verses rock debate -- gets to the real genius of SD. That is, combining these various influences into a completely unique creation. You can identify elements (and players) that are "jazzy," "bluesy," or "rocky" (?) in SD music, but these are so well blended that no one label applies. It's certainly evolved to be MORE jazz-influenced than rock, but at the same time there's more R&B in the mix. Is hip-hop in the future? Is SOA rap?

Much as we know Don and Walt love jazz, they are clearly not trying to be a jazz act. Biggest clue: the solos are WAY too short!!

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 12:25:37 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

As usual, Peter, that pompous arrogant bastard, is right on. BTW, just when did being knowledgable become equated with arrogance and pomposity? Was it when we became entrapped in this correctness ethic? Is it incorrect and inappropriate to be...smart? I guess that's a whole other question.

Walt is all over the blues, always has been. Da boy is funky if nothing else. He lives in that blues idiom from Dirty Work, Do It Again, Boston Rag, Pretzel Logic, the classic Chain Lightning, there's a blues thru-line in his guitar work all the way up to and including Godwhacker. My goodness, the Godwhacker's contrapuntal bass and lead guitar lines are thrilling. Walter is one bluesy white boy and, again, the steel in Dan.

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 10:30:22 ET
Posted by: Mike in Massachusetts,

Apologies in advance if this has been covered. Is there any chance a DVD of any performance from the tour will be issued? Anyone recall seeing cameras present, other than those used for screen projection?

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 09:38:03 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Re guitar. Bruce correctly identified WB as a blues guitarist. Without getting into what blues guitarists he sounds like/reminds me of, because when one does that here one gets accused of pomposity or uppitiness, because many know nothings post here without being able to name a single blues guitarist other than B.B. King, I humbly suggest not comparing WB on guitar with Parks, Carlton, Graydon, Dias, Baxter, etc. Herington fills that role in the band now.


WB on guitar is more correctly identified with the catalog of guitarists you could find, let's say, on the Alligator Records website. As far back as the recorded solo on Josie he has been trying to capture the tone of these blues players. The attempt to capture this tone is all over EMG like raindrops on a leaf. This I believe is not an attempt to be a guitar virtuoso; it is, rsther, an attempt to try
and work a very specific, old, classic kind of sound texture
into the more original aspects of Steely Dan's music.

Even the tone Knopfler was instructed to try to get on the Gaucho version of Time Out of Mind is aiming for that Chess Records/Alligator Records type of bluesiness. That's the roots of WB's playing, not rock guitar; or, if he is interested in any white rock guitarists at all it may be those who are blues based but don't really play blues, like Clapton. He is NOT from what I can see trying to be an out front, I-can-carry-the-band-if-I -have-to guitarist like, say, the players in the Allman Brothers.

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 09:23:45 ET
Posted by: Q, Down in Tampa...

Gaslighter of Abby - only still in Hawaii, and at the show in spirit.

Had to be back promptly on 10/15 to file my Official U.S. Indentured Servant Papers to Uncle Sam(i.e. tax return)...

WB does certainly have a style that lends itself to the noodling accusation, but when you listen carefully ther's a lot of deliberation and integration going on me thinks.

Date: Sun, October 19, 2003, 02:37:15 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

The 365 radio station is totally cool, thank you PG, what a treat.

Tony - what more can I say about the subject of deconstructing Dan? I am one of those pompous-sounding people I fear. What you say makes a lot of sense but I must again take exception to the underlying ethic of your stance which, and please correct me if I'm wrong, just takes all of the fun out of trying to deduce what went on with what and how on the SD tracks. And no, if someone augments a chord or tweeks a lyric, that person is not an equal collaborator. The sense I get is that Walty is in on the song crafting from square one. Listen to the unreleased tracks on Broberg's excellent site. I believe that process historically more often than not begins with a musical snippett generated by Don, ruminated on by both, until a feeling or story emerges. Then off they go trading fours, if you will. Have you read that wonderful day-by-day log of the Beatles in studio by Mark Lewisohn? It gives you a feel for how things happen. Do I know what happened in the SD studio, no, of course not. I'm goofing in my head over it. Why does this irritate you so? If anywhere at all, a site like this engenders this kind of discussion.

Date: Sat, October 18, 2003, 21:08:52 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Fagen and/or Becker?

¡¡Mini-thesis warning!!

A few years back I ran across some research done by a couple of business consultants on the phenomenon of "pairs." While most organizations emphasize "teamwork," these folks found that throughout history and in business the "power of two" has been a major factor in creating a level of achievement far above individual or larger-group combinations.

Famous pairs (Lewis and Clark, Wright Bros., Lennon & McCartney etc.) we know about. Often, it turns out, people known as "famous individuals" had a silent partner who was key to their creativity, decisions, inspiration, etc. These relationships apparently are not always totally friendly and often the two people have very different skill sets.

Since becoming more aware of this "partner power" as we called it, I've observed it in many instances. As a musical and Dan-tangent example: seems to me Michael McDonald lost a vital partner when he no longer had Patrick Simmons to fight with ... Listen to their counterpoint on "You Never Change" from Minute by Minute and I think you'll agree MMcD has not done anything close since (at least that I'm aware of).

IMHO Becker and Fagen are a (phenomenally) synergistic pair. Impossible to quantify, but clearly greater together than solo. Nightfly, I'm sure, had it's carry-over influences from Walter -- and Gary Katz was still around as a Walter substitute. Other than that, what have they done apart? (Not Kama or 11TOW). If Donald tries a solo album (where did that rumor come from?) I'll be interested but would not have high hopes.

Glad they've stuck together this far!

Date: Sat, October 18, 2003, 20:18:13 ET
Posted by: Nazman, Internetting

http://www.live365.com/broadcast/scheduler/?stationname=pergunnareriksson&site=..

Above in the webpage that has the schedule for the weekend that identies the times that the SD focus occurs...cause right now it is just back to selected rock cuts...

Date: Sat, October 18, 2003, 20:14:01 ET
Posted by: Nazman, Breezin of Live365

P-G Eriksson

Have been listening to your Internet Weekend Special on Live365.com featuring Steely Dan et al. Wonderful stuff. Thanks so much for the heads up. Hope to see/hear more of this kind of stuff on 365. Been great getting some needed exposure to other members of the band, the selections i've heard...solos by Herrington, Leonhart and Weiskopf and the stuff on Becker's release have been most enjoyable. Thanks again. Will be staying w/ that Radio slot through the weekend. Thanks again.

Date: Sat, October 18, 2003, 19:30:26 ET
Posted by: Ktistec,

Greetings from UK. Just wanted to point out, if no one else has, that there is a fantastic interview with Becker and Fagen, along with Elliot Scheiner and the other engineers, in the August issue of one of our audio magazines here called Sound On Sound. One of the best I've read, and I've read many, believe me. It goes on for several pages and is very in-depth and detailed about how they recorded EMG. Highly recommended if you can find it.

Date: Sat, October 18, 2003, 19:06:05 ET
Posted by: Tony, Chicago

Reely Dan, formerly katy lied, is playing tonight at Harry's in Arlington Heights. 1 N. Vail

Date: Sat, October 18, 2003, 18:34:05 ET
Posted by: Tony, chicago

2) A Dan cover band (Reely Dan- formerly Katy Lied- of chicago) that i have never seen is playing tonight in a suburb of chicago. No idea how good they are, just happened to spot the ad and thought i'd pass the word and support them. Harry's. 1 N. Vail, Arlington Heights, IL. Look at mapquest, the place is right off Arlington Heights Rd.

Date: Sat, October 18, 2003, 18:32:45 ET
Posted by: Tony, chicago

2) A Dan cover band (Reely Dan- formerly Katy Lied- of chicago) that i have never seen is playing tonight in a suburb of chicago. No idea how good they are, just happened to spot the ad and thought i'd pass the word and support them. Harry's. 1 N. Vail, Arlington Heights, IL. Look at mapquest, the place is right off Arlington Heights Rd.

Date: Sat, October 18, 2003, 18:28:29 ET
Posted by: Tony, Chicago

1) New to this joint and read a couple entries. bwaysteve on 10/17 hits it on the head. Perhaps, since he is a former junkie (implied by him) of debating and/or evaluating quality/funkability of various artists invloved with Mr. Steely Dan (eehaw eehaw), you current junkies will not take him seriously. However, take it from someone with a still clear mind- Enjoy the music and enjoy the people who share your appreciation for the music (cuz our number certainly isn't growing much). Get on with your respective life and quit pretending that you have any unique insight into the goings-on of the band, lest you sound like a pompous blow-hard that I am sure you truly are not. You were not there so you cannot know what was done by whom and for what reason. Particularly in regard to the discussion of Walter Becker... who cares if he "deserves" credit. If he wrote only one word of each song or even suggested eliminating only one muted hammer-on by Chuck Rainey, he helped make the song better, i'm sure. And, he was there, YOU WERE NOT. So, however little or big his input might have been, he had input in Steely Dan and you did not. Get over it and enjoy your your station in life.

Date: Sat, October 18, 2003, 16:29:44 ET
Posted by: Gaslighting Abby, Not in HI

Q: You're still in Honolulu??? Boy, you must be loaded!!!

Matt: To be honest, I NEVER believed that was Walter playing the Black Friday solo on Katy Lied. Maybe that's why he let Herington play it on the tour. Remember...with SD, never believe the credits in the liner notes.

Date: Sat, October 18, 2003, 15:30:43 ET
Posted by: Laina, in the kitchen burning water

P-G Eriksson--I tried listening to your station but it was to no avail. Registered and everything. Another station played just fine, but *yours* was the one I was going for.

*sigh*

Lainalove

Date: Sat, October 18, 2003, 13:36:59 ET
Posted by: P-G Eriksson - looking for listeners :-), Where Steely Dan WILL tour in 2004!

What you won't do with a few hours to spare...

live365.com is probably well-known to most here who have listened to hoops Radio Free Dandom.
Together with a friend I've run a station since May and while waiting for the official announcement that Donald & Walter will tour Europe in 2004 I decided to play some Steely Dan/Dan-related music this weekend. Three two hour shows repeated a handful of times.

It's a mix of rare (and familiar)Steely Dan, cover versions, songs written by Donald & Walter recorded by others, music by artists that have inspired them as well as music by the people part of the just tour.

So you get to hear Bob Dylan, Thelonious Monk, Jennifer
Warnes, Michael & Carolyn Leonhart, Woody Herman, Walter Weiskopf, The Joe Rocccisano Orchestra ... even Dionne Warwick! Whatever fits into the two hour shows.

Here is where you find it including a schedule when the Steely Dan stuff is on:

http://www.live365.com/stations/pergunnareriksson

Date: Sat, October 18, 2003, 10:20:44 ET
Posted by: Matt, Chattanooga, Tn

One thing I did notice (at least on the 2000 tour) is that some of the songs that were Walter originally (Black Friday specifically) were solod by Jon on the tour. In fact, Jon had a slight amp propblem at the 2000 Sacremento show that lead Walter to do the Black Friday solo for the only time on that tour. I thought it strange that Walter would "give away" one of his trademark solos to what is essentially a backing musician (of outstanding quality, of course).

I've never gotten the impression that Walter is noodling...all of the solos I have heard him play live seem very well thought out and the notes carefully selected to enhance the overall impact. Maybe I'm giving Walter a lot of credit because he's an incredibly cool, generous, and affable dude...but I also enjoy the solos immensely.

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 22:06:18 ET
Posted by: Q, HI

WB guitar noodling?

Please.

Did you go to any of the shows?

He was crisp, spot on, and poignant.

No, he isn't the king of guitar virtuosity - just a great writer and player and no excuse need be made.

You want noodling - listen to Clapton in over much of the last 10 years...

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 21:40:17 ET
Posted by: Who,

OK, there are 2 reasons to be back on more time - to wonder why Hey's post stands and Much more importantly to succinctly defend Walter

Pretzel Logic
Monkey in Your Soul
Black Friday
Bad Sneakers
Aja (middle portion of solo)
Home at Last
I Got the News
Josie
Snowbound
Junkie Girl
What a Shame About Me
West of Hollywood


These brilliant, noodleless guitar work and solos on these tunes do indeed speak for themselves


EMG, especially the last 4 songs, stacks up against their best...and Godwhacker and Things I Miss the Most are not far behind!

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 21:36:16 ET
Posted by: Jen, Back in Aus

What an amazing week this has been. Just back in Australia after seeing the two SD concerts in Maui and O'ahu and now am reflecting on "what next!"

These were my first SD concerts EVER. Whilst a fan for years, I would never have imagined myself winging it half way around the world to a tropical paradise to see the best band ever. We all know the songs and the set list has been posted before, but for me - my big realisation was that I had never really "heard" the band's music before. A CD or DVD doesn't do it justice, no matter how good a sound system you have. You need to/must see SD live !

I was, and still am, really blown away by the exceptional talent - far exceeding my expectations, arrangement of songs - Caves, EMG, and Josie, and general atmosphere of the concerts. That drum solo by Carlock will be but just one unforgettable moment - I have never heard someone create music from drums as he can.

The venues were vastly different to those here but that only added to the spirit of the occasion. I loved the fact that I was so close to the stage in Maui, that if I outstretched my arm it felt like I could have touched the Don. I loved the seat move we did at Blaisdell Arena so that you could see everything that was going on, on stage. The list of "oh my god" moments goes on. For one week away - I really did live through a lifetime of experiences.

There are so many people to thank who made this trip special. SOH - I think I will be forever indebted to you. Scotty - you opened my eyes to a world here that I never would have imagined existed. Alan, LWO, SueDave, Geoff, Teri - it was a pleasure to experience this all with you.

And to Donald & Walter - a simple thanks just doesn't seem enough, and I can't find the words to express the impact you have made. All I can say is "until the next time" ....... I'll be there.

Jen.

BCT Molly/Hoops - we do have lots of photo's, currently on 3 different camera's. Once we get these all together I'm sure we will be able to post them for your viewing.

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 21:01:48 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

BwaySteve - I do this cause it's fun, that's all, and takes me away from thoughts of bills and family responsibilities. I love picking things apart and if you want to crucify me for it, well, fine. Why did you do that wonderful cover of Gina? Fun, just fun, which is something that's harder and harder to have in any non-destructive way at my age. Now, as for Walter, he's the element without which Mr. Fagen cannot function at the high level Steely Dan recordings demand. Mr. Becker is a genius with the turn of phrase, never devolving into terminal romanticism as Don is wont to do, and with an ear that knows what's tuneful and what's not. He's a rigg-nerd and knows all the toys inside and out. He's an HUGE dude, huge and there is NO Steely Dan sans Walty.

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 20:50:09 ET
Posted by: bwaySteve, Times Sq

I have read through recent posts and am frankly amazed that we are still trying to justify Walter Becker. I want to know why people have so much trouble with this guy. Is he a singer ? What's with that riff he plays in every song ? Does Fagen put his name on the songs just to make Becker feel better ? Jeez !

This Summer , during a sustained period of joy, excitement and immersion, I succeeded in removing all judgement from my conscious processes in the area of music.I no longer wonder or care what the best song on the best record was. I have not given a thought in weeks to the better guitarist or the more prolific collaborator. I laughed at the memory of debating which bass player funked the best or which sax player blew the most unplayable solo.I looked back over a life of bemoaning my 7 out of a possible 10 and felt a little embarrassed at how much time I have wasted in this.

I am finished .

I'm gonna sell my house in town.

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 20:34:00 ET
Posted by: Q, Honolulu

Go Skip!

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 18:23:57 ET
Posted by: wormy, new orleans or planet jane

bill

Don played melodica and ever blimping ted played rhoades up front
on the following

Aja - no

Time out of Mind
Godwacker
Babylon Sisters
one other song in the first set
and one song in the second set

Tom of worm

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 14:45:47 ET
Posted by: Rcray, NYU

New Rolling Stone magazine has a huge review of Countdown to Ecstasy calling it one of the greatest albums of all time!!!!!! They gave it 5 stars!!!!


Rock on

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 14:10:40 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Bill - Baker played the Fender on Black Cow. At Jones Beach on Gwhacker Bill Charlap played acoustic piano. Also the 32 bar pop song formula in was altered from the usual eight measure phrase.

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 14:01:42 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Bill - I don't have the setlist in front of me but just from memory and maybe somebody else can help me out here but I do recall that Baker came down to the Rhodes on Godwhacker in October. The first show of the tour in July however, the night he kinda mucked up the lyric, Don stayed behind it.

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 13:44:22 ET
Posted by: angel,

Also, the reviewer knows when he has seen something unforgettable. As in, he will still be talking about how good that show was, 20 or so years from now.
Not like any of this is new, but I did finally get my Universal page up and running. No pictures yet, just the ticket. The links to the other two concerts are there at the bottom. I call it my Steely Dan Suite. http://www.angelfire.com/mb2/bart/angel9.html

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 13:41:53 ET
Posted by: Bill, Pittsburgh

>>And everything in its original key

Nah, I believe they move Josie from Em down to Dm. I suspect they changed the key for Walter to sing Haitian Divorce but I can't be sure since I haven't heard it. They actually raised the key for him for the verses of Midnight Cruiser from Dm to Em in 1996 then went to G instead of D for the choruses. (Yeah, I know, who cares?)

On a new thread, as one who missed seeing any shows this time out, what did Donald and Ted play on which songs? I recall someone mentioned that Donald started Aja on Rhodes and moved to melodica in the middle. When did he play Rhodes and when did he go portable, and on which songs did Ted move down to the Rhodes or over to the Roland? Did Don do any synth or Melodica soloing on Lunch with Gina? Inquiring keyboardists want to know.

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 12:48:57 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

OK the reviewer guy is not totally knowledgable but he does know when something is very very good. I consider that a small victory.

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 09:42:06 ET
Posted by: Nazman,

Nice review!

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 09:18:43 ET
Posted by: TransIsland,

Tower Records has an e-magazine called Pulse which has this review in the latest issue:


1. STUDIO-POP CONCERT OF THE WEEK:

STUDIO CITY, CA -- In any field of endeavor, certain things represent the State of the Art. STEELY DAN's last few albums of the 1970s were the height of pop studio craft. When the group's two figureheads, vocalist/keyboardist Donald Fagen and guitarist Walter Becker, reconvened a few years back after a long separation, the Dan went from studio-only to full-on recording/touring act. Last week, they hit LA (Oct. 2, Universal Amphitheater), touring in support of a new disc, 'Everything Must Go.' Cheap seats were $40, good ones three times that. T-shirts: $30. The backing band -- eight players plus background singers -- took the stage with an untitled original instrumental, and it became immediately apparent why everything was expensive. The band was all A-team. Good thing, too. Recreating momentous post-Spector pop studio achievements is not a lightweight gig. Becker and Fagen took the stage and launched "Aja." A classic came to life. The effect was magical. As it was, that methodology dominated. Only one tune from each of the last two albums, but heavy on 'Aja' and 'Gaucho.' Old arrangements beefed up but not really reconfigured. Every performance spotless. Few people have ever heard anything rendered this professionally. Becker's guitar playing was unerringly beautiful throughout. And Fagen vocally impressed. He had to push harder for some notes, but he got 'em. And everything in its original key. Steely Dan won't worry James Brown if stage charisma is any yardstick. Fagen sat behind his electric piano most of the night, occasionally picking up a melodica or strapping on one of those ridiculous '80s keyboards seen in MTV videos. Not cool. But the technical accomplishment this show represented has raised the bar. And, no matter what the ticket price, every dollar was represented fully by craft, musicianship, and an attention to legacy detail that in recent years has been rivaled only by the Brian Wilson/Wondermints live shows. (By SKIP HELLER)

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 08:48:56 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

This seems to me to be a chicken and egg debate. There are, indeed, guitar gods out there today ( Pat Metheny,John Scofield, Mike Stern (arguably the greatest electric guitarist ever), Joseph Foley McCreary, et al. Many people are considering Herington to be at this level now (and obviously not because of his work with Dan). IMHO if you want to see/hear guitar gods today, look towards these jazz-rock players rather than to straight ahead rock.


The debate, it seems to me, hinges on a difference in categorization. Bruce wants to categorize SD as a jazz group, most others here seem to want to put them in a class with Blue Oyster Cult and The Police, ie, as a "classic rock" group - either because they have been fans since the 70s, or because they're in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame, etc. Also, SD is hugely influenced by 50s-60s R&B music that was largely done by black performers (how many black people have you seen at Dan shows? very few), thereby setting up the following odd scenario:

A group that is mostly influenced by jazz and R&B is playng to an audience that has come to know them (mostly) by means of rock n roll information filters. That is the source of much miscommunication.

Date: Fri, October 17, 2003, 02:22:02 ET
Posted by: Laina, SLO

Theron--I am down with that list. May I suggest the addition of King Of The World, wherever it would be most appropriate. I need to hear that live at some point before I grow old...er.

going to BED!!

Lainalove

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 23:42:16 ET
Posted by: Theron, Green Flower Street

*Songs for Alive in America II*
Double CD recorded live spanning the '96 '00 '03 tours (should they decide to release such a thing :-)

DISC 1

*The Boston Rag
*Time out of Mind
*My old School
*Greenflower Street
*Cash only Island
*Midnight Criuser (Becker sings)
*Glamor Profession
*Chain Lightning
*Bad Sneakers
*Monkey in your Soul
*The Royal Scam



DISC 2

*FM
*Deacon Blues
*Caves of Altamira
*Jack of Speed (Becker sings)
*Night by Night
*Hey 19
*Home at Last
*Don't take me Alive
*Any Major Dude
*Hatian Divorce (Becker Sings)
*Everyones' gone to the Movies

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 22:28:20 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Tomorrow's Girl - The tops indeed TG. And a challenge to us all.

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 22:08:27 ET
Posted by: Tomorrow's Girl, Stargate

Thank you Raj for the wonderful post (two old soldiers), that was touching and oh so true. These guys are simply the greatest. A lot can be said, but when it's all said and done, these two are tops in their class.

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 18:48:29 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Javier - This list is hilarious as is and mindblowing to see so many great artists on there. Basphemy to put Kid A on there but sooo right. Makes Revolution No. 9 seem catchy. Two Virgins has to be waaay up on the list. I mean, the cover alone. ELP might be the best worst band ever, except for Poison, now that's fresh hell. I don't think it would be fair to include the spoken albums by non-singers like Capt. Kirk, Trent Lott, Illyia Kuriakin; it's gotta be a band we know for it to create that particular brand of "oh shit" that we're shooting for.

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 18:14:04 ET
Posted by: Javier Moreno, Back from Thrillsville

There's a poll running on the Datebook section of the San Francisco chronicle about which ones are the worst albums ever released. you can email them to pink@sfchronicle.com . Of course this means I already sent a long list of bad, really bad albums. Nowadays, the ratio between bad music and good music is the biggest number ever achieved, and we can blame it on the industry, etc. Just don't blame it on the Dan.

Bad albums are just deceptions, I mean, good artists who released really bad stuff and after all this time we don't know why.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/377HYCNWPEFES/emiliocacao

Anyway, enjoy!

Javier

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 17:58:56 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" I know for me it's pretty much an iconic thing in my head and it's all Clapton and Jimmy Page and Jimi and Pete Townsend up in there. So Walt chooses to play how he plays ................"

Amen , my Steely Brother .................


I would like to nuzzle you !

Jacky !

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 17:37:08 ET
Posted by: angel,

Rajah: Exactly! Clapton doesn't even play the way he used to in the old Layla days, neither does Carlton, for that matter. They play much more laid back. No guitar Gods, anymore. It is indeed us, stuck in that Guitar God mindset. Good point.

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 17:28:49 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Putting this Walter thing into perspective now. He's a seasoned player, confident, precise, and in control. Veteran of countless recording sesions and hundreds of live performances before paying audiences. No schmuck is right, Duke. A real pro with a great ear and yes, I think it's Walt who kicks ass when somebody blows a clam, even if it's Donald (the Denver show). So what's the problem? It's us is what I'm thinking. I think it's the image of the guitar-god we all, to varying degrees, got sucked into in our early exposure to rock n roll experiences. I know for me it's pretty much an iconic thing in my head and it's all Clapton and Jimmy Page and Jimi and Pete Townsend up in there. So Walt chooses to play how he plays, he's certainly not trying to be like these other guys and it's not his fault if I'm sitting there thinking, ... wow...wonder how Duane Allman would do this.

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 16:11:53 ET
Posted by: Duke Of Earl, Delaware

Rajah,

Yeah, you're right to some extent. Now I like some of Mayer's music, but his music is becoming a little too commercial for my taste. I like the album (it's got some nice tracks, but it also has a couple of duds). But overall people listen to what they are told they should listen to. That's what I was eluding to with my Clear Channel reference.

Like I said, I don't believe Don and Walter are out there trying to win over new fans, but rather playing for us. While I concede that D+W are not virtuosos, does that really matter? I think one poster asserted that Becker's increased level of involvement has resulted in a regression in the music. I just think we oughta be happy these guys are still willing to go through a four month tour schedule for us. Obviously they make money, but keep notice that most if not all of their concerts only played 3 new cuts. So they weren't trying to promote EMG per se. Instead they played 5 out of 7 of the Aja cuts for the Hershey show I went to.

So I guess I'm just trying to say that Becker's ability isn't top notch, but he's good. It's not like they're running some two-bit schmuck up their to play lead.

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 14:19:35 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Duke - nice to hear from you again, don't you also think that their lack of popularity with the great unwashed also stems from their age? Remember when the Beatles couldn't get the BBC to play "Free as a Bird" a few years ago? No doubt radio sucks and Reprise dropped the ball though. My friends who don't dig the Dan keep saying things like: "they're too weird". These are people my age buying John Maher(sp?) and Dave Matthews records. It's just that most people are sheep with crappy-ass musical tastes. So here's my feeling: F them all since they have already lost their immortal souls, leave the gun, take the cannolies.

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 12:51:57 ET
Posted by: Duke Of Earl, Delaware

Sorry for not posting in a long time. I think that bashing Mr. Becker is fruitless. I think he would admit that there are hundreds of better guitar players out there than he is. He often cracks jokes about his style. Anyone pointing out Becker's inadequacies as a guitar player is not providing a refreshing outlook, but rather just stating the obvious.

Have these things led to SD's lack in popularity? Absolutely not. The lack of popularity stems from at least three sources:

1) The emergence of communications monopolies limiting musical diversity on the air,
2) A change in overall tastes away from the rhythms typically found in songs, and
3) A complete failure on the part of their record label to properly promote and sell the product.

When my wife first listened to EMG, I asked her what she thought. She said, "It sounds like Steely Dan." So the sound hasn't changed, it's the business that's changed. They would have to pull a Santana or Johnny Cash to regain a place in pop culture...I don't think that's ever going to happen with them.

Basically, D+W are playing for their fans, and they know it. They are probably one of the more appreciative groups out there of their fan base. We love them, and it doesn't matter if Donald Fagen isn't half the piano player Thelonius Monk was, or Walter Becker couldn't carry Wes Montgomery's guitar case. With all this bitching, maybe Bruce et.al. will get their just deserts, a.k.a. a permanent retirement by Steely Dan.

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 12:20:06 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

I'm starting to feel guilty about all the criticisms of Walter. It reminds me of some oldtime ballplayer, I think it was Phil Rizzuto, when he came up to the big leagues the scouts and coaches said things like, "can't run, can't field, can't throw, can't hit." He went on to become a perennial all-star and win like six World Series and be elected into the Hall of Fame. Walter's like that, he don't look good, sing good or play inspirationally(sp?) but he's a brilliant music man, world-class songwriter and destined to take his place with the immortal ones. He'll just never look like Brad Pitt or sing like Pavarotti or play like Andre Segovia. And Don's not that much better. But together they stand with all the truly great composers of popular song and it could be argued that they are the true voice of our generation. Go figure.

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 10:31:39 ET
Posted by: Hank Silvers,

History, just for the record:

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/harp/1016.html

"...[the] crash of the gold market on September 24, 1869. "Black Friday," as it became known, was the result of an attempt by financiers Jay Gould and James Fisk to corner the gold market."

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 08:53:00 ET
Posted by: jon@ his yellow stripe,

Concerning Walter's guitaring, I've never been a huge fan of his playing, having been spoiled by the likes of Skunk, Dias, Carlton, Parks. et. al. and I've always preferred his bass playing over what has more than once been called his "incessant noodling" on guitar.

He has his share of fans as well as detractors and it's usually futile to argue about someting so subjective as musical taste. I call it my "Chicken Marsala Theory" and it goes like this: I love chicken marsala and could eat it 5 days a week if given the opportunity. YOU, on the other hand hate it and become billous at the thought of it showing up on your plate. No amount of cajoling on my part is going to convince you to like it. Same goes for Walt's guitar playing.

However as a wise co-worker and rabid Stely Dan fan said to me recently, and I quote, "If having Walt play all the leads on every Dan recording is the cost of getting new releases every couple of years, it's a price well worth paying."

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 02:49:07 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Someone mentioned Walter's guitar solo on Bad Sneakers...and it brought to mind Donald's piano underneath. It's a great moment. For years I didn't look at the credits...now going back it's easy to see when it's Donald playing and when it's someone else. The stuff with the fine touch is almost always someone else (Greg Philliganes -- spelling ? -- Maxine)

I'd love to see Donald in concert at the piano. Fire in the Hole would be my choice.

Walter...I wouldn't have guessed he had done the Black Friday solo because building up to that album they'd been using other guitar players (Dias, Baxter). He's not my preferred SD guitarist..and I miss the days when they brought in others (creating different feels, textures, sounds, whatever) I saw Herington in Japan (2000 tour) and thought he was a great fit for the non-Walter guitar solos.

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 02:10:46 ET
Posted by: Theron,

How comes we didn't get Lunch w/ Gina, EMG, & DDLinNYCNM and you guys did?

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 01:55:19 ET
Posted by: Theron,

*Set-lists for Denver, Hershey, & Homledel NJ*

Since the tour is over, I guess it's o.k. to post. Here is the setlists' for the three shows I was at. I CANNOT remember if the order is correct (trying to jog my memory) but the songs are all there (same songs at each show). Order should be close. All shows unbelievable - Hershey & Homlmedel the best (east coast thing).

Intro (Awsome)
Asia
Time out of Mind
Godwhacker
Caves of Altamira
Jannie Runaway
Black Cow
Slang of Ages (Becker Sings)
Home at Last
Peg

Steely Dan show (girls sing)
Babylon Sisters
Things I miss the most
Hey Nineteen
Parkers Band (girls sing)
Josie
Hatian Divorce (Becker Sings)
Kid Charlemange
Don't Take me Alive

My Old School
FM

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 01:54:58 ET
Posted by: My Old Man, Back in Oregano

I just think that the songs are better overall on EMG. It took my a bunch of listens to warm up to most of 2VN. I now love Negative Girl and Almost Gothic, but the rest of it doesn't measure up tune-wise to the last 5 tracks of EMG. EMG itself and Pixeleen, to me, are on a level with the best Dan ever recorded. Almost every record has a clinker or two, but the holy trinity of Katy, Scam and Aja are without flaws. This is songwriting at it's peak.

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 00:33:28 ET
Posted by: Dan Belcher, Louisville, KY

> "Everything Must Go" is no less of an album than "Two Against Nature".

I fully agree. Actually, I prefer EMG over 2VN by a long shot.

*semi-rant mode*

2VN is decent, but it just falls a little flat for me. A bit of it probably is just the cold, almost-mechanical sound of the drums and the horns. The sound just isn't very organic. I much prefer the style of recording in EMG. Also, I just feel the songs themselves in 2VN aren't all that spectacular. I'm a fan of long songs, but nearly all the songs on 2VN drag on far too long for the content in them. And finally, I just don't really like the songwriting style used on 2Vn all that much. The title track is decent, but annoys me after a few minutes. Gaslighting Abbie comes across as listenable sometimes and just weird others. Janie Runaway just comes across as a bit flat. Negative Girl and West of Hollywood sound a little odd and the a bit unnatural or something. Cousin Dupree, Almost Gothic, What a Shame About Me, and Jack of Speed are very solid songs, however.

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 00:20:17 ET
Posted by: W1P, LA

Hey Azul Folk -- Steely Dan-related and Mike Keneally and Love Bob news for you:

Sunday, October 19, 2003
Victor's on the Bay
2702 N Mission Bay Dr.
San Diego, CA 92109
Mike Keneally with Drew Zingg (ex-Steely Dan guitarist), Andy Vereen (vocalist on MK's "hat." album, played bass and sang in MK's early 80's band Graphic and went on to become lead singer of Burning Bridges)
and Nathan Hubbard (from the Trummerflora Collective, and the drummer on Wooden Smoke) (858) 490-3389
Ten bucks
Music will probably start around 9:30 p.m. or so. Expect a lot of '60s covers and bring your requests. It'll be loose and fun.

HALLOWEEN!!
Mike Keneally guesting with Bob Tedde, Rockola and the Magical Symphony Orchestra as they perform THE ENTIRE BEATLES' WHITE ALBUM
Friday, October 31st
8:30pm
Spreckels Theatre
121 Broadway, San Diego, CA
(619) 235-0494
Tickets: $40.00, $35.00, $25.00
Tickets are also available through Ticketmaster.
You can also purchase a ticket or two directly from Rockola: TicketDuck@Rockola.com

Date: Thurs, October 16, 2003, 00:07:20 ET
Posted by: Theron,

I was just looking at the picture of Jeff "Skunk" Baxter from inside of the "Countdown to Ecstacy" re-issue. I just keep thinking, man this guy looks like Wilfred Brimmley on crack.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 22:46:49 ET
Posted by: Kid Clean, In the bunker with my flak jacket on

Wooo Hooo! Man is it going on in here. Bruce, welcome aboard the blue book. As soon as I read your post I knew it was going to stir things up a bit. As has been mentioned, your frankness and opinion are appreciated. For the most part, everyone here is hard pressed to find something 'wrong' with our Dynamic Duo. But, what makes life great is the fact that we all have our own 'view' of what's out there.
I myself am a big Walter fan. He's not a showman, but he puts it all into the show. My bud Tony and I have actually felt that when they're on stage, Walter is the 'maestro', not Don. I've seen Donald flash some cues,etc. but it seems like Walter's really got his eyes and ears on everyone and perhaps when it's time to pay the piper for a flub, it's Walter that collects. As far as on records (a what?) my opinion is a solid 50/50. Nightfly is a great album, but it's NOT Steely Dan. Kama's got some Walter in it and 11ToW has some Donald, but neither one measures up. The good of the two, outweighs the good of the individual. I think Walter has a lot to do with lyrics. The depth and wit really comes out on 11Tow, it's like a personal look into his soul. Using that as the bar, it's easy to see his influence in the lyrics, especially on the last two. Before I bore anyone to death here, thanks Bruce, and everyone else for getting me to 'THINK', that happens all to little lately. And in case anyone wanted to know, there are 4 tracks on TvN that Walter doesn't play both bass and guitar on, and on one of those, neither D nor W play an instrument. There, I said it.

On a different page, just a few words about the Memphis show. Holy Sh*t!!!! By far the best show I've seen. It may have had something to do with only being 8 flippin' feet from center stage for the whole show! After waiting in line since 3 p.m. it was quite the payoff. Speaking of waiting in line, a big 'Hey' to Al & Sharon, Jeff, Lisa, Fernando and all the others whose names have elluded me at this moment. We had a great time talking about the Dan and whatever else piqued our intrests for those 3 1/2 hours. Highlights for the show, TOOM, it really grooved a lot more than at the Chicago show; Black Cow was, again, eerily perfect; I still miss the guitar solo in the middle of Godwhacker but the horns didn't get muddled here and they sounded great; Babylon had some serious 'Shake' in it; Jon's soloing on Haitian was divine; Carlock's solo was mind blowing, seemed a whole lot longer than in Chicago and he really had a groove going on (his home town in Miss. was just a hop and skip from here so that may have had something to do with that); the finale was the usual, nothing hair raising but qualtity as always. Number one though, was Lunch With Gina. Funkalicious. They really jammed on that. Almost forgot Parker's Band, they should keep that in the list for years to come, the Girls did fantastic and the band was really swingin'. Last but not least, a message to one Cindy Mizelle - Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. I'm sure that this is far from the truth, but it was like she was putting on a show just for me. There was lots of eye contact and damn! but she can 'shake it baby'. She was definately the highlight of the choir this tour. (This may be all in my head but it sure did make the night a little groovier). There's a lot more I could tell you about the whole weekend but we'll leave it at this for now.

Matt - Waaaaas uuuup!?! I was hoping to get to hang with you at the Memphis show but I didn't see ya. Were you there?

Peace, Love and DAN,

KC

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 22:35:12 ET
Posted by: Nazman, Soul Monkey Central

Would like to echo this lovely sentiment from Rajah listed below. When Don and Walt come onto stage it is truly a moment of enchantment, such a deep and heartfelt appreciation we all have for the band. And after all these years to be front and center w/ the band, live and in person!! Exquisite!

For me it's exactly what that girl says in the interview segments that start the 2vN DVD, and that is that this band is all about Heart.

This has been such an incredible summer. And how can anyone honestly deny that this is still a very compelling experience. The music is so familiar but so fresh. The feeling in this music not to mention the quality is extraordinary to say the least.

As for this forum and some of the frustrations voiced it's all understandable. I certainly haven't been involved here long enough to have an influence one way or the other. I simply love this band so much. Like most of you i was just 'charmed' to say the least by my experiences at Konocti and Concord this year. Experiences that i will never forget.

Oftentimes this forum gets a little too cerebral for me although i try to learn what i can from those of you that are such scholars of music, jazz and roots and even you musicians who have your own unique opinions.

But most of us, i would assume, simply love this band. And i mean love. Hard to explain but i swoon over these guys (and girls! although Donald Fagen is generally my focus) and i am a happily married man and father of two. But i'm a Romantic and that's what i find in this music, Romance, even in the melancholy. It's Romance in the broadest sense to include all the unique dimensions of the human condition spilling out oftentimes w/ wry sarcasm but ultimately i feel a deep compassion in the experience of Steely Dan and i would imagine that is reflective in their politics and personalities. Maybe that's what i get out if it but whatever it is it moves me. And thus here i be.

By the way, speaking of personalities Walt is such a gentleman. I can't tell you how clear it was to me at Concord how much these two icons love each other and how much pride they take in what they have acheived together.

I think it is true that at times people get carried away w/ wanting to dominate or alter how people perceive this band but whatever the case i try to let people have their opinion. I am just happy that you are all out there to share this with...

Gretchen, hang in there...pour yourself a Cuban...



(Rajah wrote:)
These two guys are very close, like brothers, as Don said to the crowd, and I'm certain that Don wants Walt to get up there and shine. He's been in the background too long and only Don knows just how much of Steely Dan's heartbeat is provided by Walt. For those of us lucky enough to have a few people still in our lives from 35 years ago, you can imagine what a source of continuity and wholeness knowing someone that long brings. You've got somebody who knew you when, you know a person's history, you're a part of the past and the present. That's a huge gift just on its own, but then there's also the aspect of working together professionally for most of those years and achieving this level of popular and artistic success. They pretty much melted down around 1980 and retreated to their respective corners for a while before this reapproachment of the last 10 years or so, a veritable renaissance bordering on the miraculous. They're like an old couple who have been through some shit but are still around. I think the greatest moments of their tour this time was watching them saunter on and take the stage. Goosebumps people, the shows I saw, the crowd got up on their feet and screamed out at their entrance. Big lump in my throat seeing these two old soldiers taking up their livery and storming once more into the fray. I admire them so much for not going gently into that goodnight and doing it with the kind of class you just don't see too much of these days.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 20:13:57 ET
Posted by: Bruce Mills, Vegas

Re: Peter Q.,

So true, so true!
Hey, I'm originally from Brooklyn too! Sheepshead Bay to be exact.
Before I came out to Vegas 20 years ago I was doing club dates all over the tri-state area, and backing up revival shows of old rock acts. For example, The Marvelettes, Little Anthony, Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry, etc., etc.
I did quite a bit of studio work too. Mostly demos. No real money, but it was great experience.
I'd have rather been playing jazz, but I did have to pay the rent first!
Hey, how's the club date scene out there now? Or work in general?
Have DJ's replaced live music?

-Bruce

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 19:23:05 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Neither Walt nor Don is a virtuoso on any instrument. Except maybe Don's singing and even that is mostly due to style and not to having a great vocal gift supported by bags of formal training. They're primarily songwriters, wordsmiths, arrangers, producers, groovemeisters, just great students of music and really really smart. Walt could have been playing a ukelele and Don an accordian on EMG and it would sound perfect.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 19:22:11 ET
Posted by: Theron,

"Everything Must Go" is no less of an album than "Two Against Nature". For some reason, many seem to project the idea that it is. One must remember that 2AN basiclly took fifteen years to make. Trying to equate 2AN with Everything Must Go is like trying to compare Gaucho with Asia. And I am of the opinion that Don & Walt have, in many ways, perfected their style. As one gets older, their viewpoint becomes increasingly broad and we see this with S.D. A listen to either of the two latest albums will confirm the depth that they have acquired with age, hence the "fine wine" analogy. I disagree that Fagen would want Barney to play base on EMG. If Don & Walt could not agree on somthing as simple as that, they would not be writing and recording together.

EMG is in many ways more Steely Dan-like than 2AN, speaking from a historical vantage-point. With EMG, everything is there in its entirty, it is just a bit more raw - but that does not make it less. EMG is shorter, much like albums in the 70' were. The songs are shorter. The solos are more brief. But this does not really mean anything in terms of the albums value as an expression of what Steely Dan is.

In contrast to many who have been posting, I feel Becker is one of the most under-rated guitarists in popular music and feel that this really shows on EMG. Becker could not be anything further from an ego-maniac. In fact, it seems he may be almost "overly-humble" as far as that goes & with EMG, he is really starting to come out of his shell, and the album, & all of Dandom is all the better for it as far as I'm concerned. Don & Walt did not part ways with the original lineup for nothing - they felt that their POTENTIAL was not being attained through it. There is a reason they worked with modern jazz greats AND session people - it certainly was the harder path to do so than to stick with the original line-up. But that decision was instumental in the elolution of Dan. They broadend out by working with others to perfect their style. Now, with EMG it seems to be coming full circle in many ways. It is not less of an album, in many ways it is more of an album.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 18:50:54 ET
Posted by: Lee, EMG land

Many here and elsewhere think Everything Must Go is #2, just a shade below Aja on the list of Dan albums. I agree, putting it at a tie with Gaucho for that spot. If that album is in actuality as good as that, or even if it is in the upper half (surely it rates that high, AT LEAST), then how could the lead guitar and bass playing not be considered topnotch? Those are two of the very most important elements of the music. It is simple logic, folks.

Before I knew that Walter played the bass on the album, the bass playing really stood out to me as fantastic. Forget about all of the technical music theory, IT SOUNDS GREAT, and that is all that matters. His lead guitar work is unique, distinctive, and IT FITS PERFECTLY.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 16:24:30 ET
Posted by: norm,

Re: the recent post claiming that Walter never played any classic solos - angel mentioned Black Friday, and I'll add:

Bad Sneakers
Home At Last
Josie

As for the "Dan expert/scholar" thing, in my mind there are four people in the world who can truly lay claim to that - Becker, Fagen, Katz and Nichols - and until any of them show up here....

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 15:06:44 ET
Posted by: Rajah ,

Criticism is not always bashing. Spirited arguement not always confrontational. I read very little on these pages that is truly mean-spirited, I read a lot of funny stuff, insightful stuff. Now I don't do the chat thing but, all in all, this is a pretty respectful and challenging group of folks. If I - or rather when - I start sounding pompous and imperious, I expect you to call me on it. (I'm getting my lead-lined control top skivvies ready) And I hope you will accept the same. Peace and shalom y'all.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 14:37:49 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Lonnie, you said it. Some people think they "own" the Green Room, too, and feel threatened because they now realize they are not the "only" fan who knows a little something.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 14:37:47 ET
Posted by: Bill, Pittsburgh

Ahh, the Walter-bashing has returned.

One of the most perceptive things I ever read about The Who's late genius Keith Moon was that he was "the best Keith Moon-style drummer in the world." I think the same goes for Walter's guitar playing. Moon couldn't sound like anything else but himself. He couldn't play like Tony Williams or Billy Cobham or Stuart Copeland or any other celebrated drummer of his time (yeah, the Police came later, I know) but he created a distinctive style that fit and defined the music. So has Walter.

He ain't gonna sound like Carlton any time soon and isn't particularly trying to do so. Why should he? Nobody sounds like him, either. His playing is blues-influenced but devoid of Claptonesque blues cliches. It features runs, melodic fragments and note choices that other guitarists would rarely think of. No, he's not a virtuoso, but you always know it's him. I do agree that a little more variety in the studio wouldn't hurt - feature Herrington on a song or two, for instance, but I am very happy with the WB guitar signature that dominates the last two SD efforts. His bass work is solid without being flashy and has enough old-school funk to fit the songs - Barney is the man for the slapping stuff. And the man is largely without ego if his interviews are to be believed. He didn't mind not playing on his own records in the 70s and hired some hot players for some of the solos on 11TOW. He has said he is not terribly interested in more lead vocal slots on future SD releases, which is a shame to me and other WB fans but good news in that it suggests there will BE further SD releases. His modesty is only exceeded by that of his partner who still seems a bit uncomfortable with the spotlight after all these years as the frontman of a major act.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 14:34:31 ET
Posted by: Lonnie the Kingpin, 7th Avenue

I wish to take a moment and echo the sentiments of Hoops. What is all this posting about where so called steely dan experts do not merely give their opinions -- but rather tell it like it is?! Since when did this forum become like "Cross-fire" or "Hardball"?? I realize many of you are pretty cranked up over this tour, but why snipe at each other? I hope most of you have something else to do in your lives but obsess over lyrics, Dan history, interviews, the future of Steely Dan, etc. It's not that much fun to read the bluebook these days because of several people who think they "own" this forum. Like Rodney King said: "can't we just all get along?"

Lonnie

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 14:33:32 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

This isn't fun anymore. I'm staying away from the Green Room and from posting here. If anyone has an issue with me they have always been able to email me privately, as my email address is always provided, and it is "real." I don't engage in conversations with "stalkers", or people using multiple names or personalities. That detracts from what this board is supposed to be, a musical forum for true Steely Dan fans. I've also been using a password in the Green Room for the past week. As I'm not computer savvy, maybe my effort to do this has not worked, but it was done in good faith. I've been a fan of SD for 30 years, and I will continue to be but I don't want an ugly shadow cast over the enjoyment of their music because of what people say to me here.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 14:17:54 ET
Posted by: angel,

Couple of quick comments.
First off, Rajah, I totally agree with your comment on the feeling one gets when Donald and Walter take the stage. Reading your post gave me goosebumps! It was a good thing....

Denny did part of the guitar work on Aja. Walter did some. There is a segment in the "Making Aja" video (a highly recommended piece of video, if you have never seen it), that shows Walter and Donald trying to figure out who did what guitar work on the title track. Also, Denny comments that there is no way anyone can play that song alone. You can only get the flavor of the chords. I think because, it was so edited with "punch in's".

Reelin in the Years solo is Elliot Randall, not Denny Dias.

Black Friday guitar work is Walter Becker. A very famous piece of guitar work, on par with the Kid Charlemagne solo that Carlton did.

I love Walter's bass playing, on EMG. Outstanding stuff. I wish he would play it occasionally, in concert. Not to take away from Tom Barney at all, I would just like to see Walter in action on a bass.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 14:15:35 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

On Walt - I think he is influenced by Sumlin and Grant Green, as he himself has stated, just how much is an academic question. But I do sense that Walter is in the midst of finding his own style with the guitar, his own unique voice with that instrument. The opening to Last Mall is a beautiful announcement, clean and direct, here I come. And have you guys listened to the DVD-A version of Godwhacker? Walter lays down a great bass line, just cool and funky as all get out, then colors over it very selectively with his guitar line. McCracken is the secret weapon in studio, lordy what a touch that old guy has with scratching and all. Walter has never been called upon to carry this much of the load. Now, that said, let's look at the results so far: TvN and EMG are immediate classics, the former garnering praise from all corners, the latter, which I personally consider the riskier and more inventive collection, will no doubt follow suit. The future looks bright.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 13:43:33 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Peter Q:
"No one wants to sit on top of the drums at 55 to see Carlock in a much more unrestricted venue and chit chat? Hard to believe."

It would be shocking if everyone here was from NYC but most are not. Plenty of people want to see Keith, especially moi, but even a motivational speaker would know to email the target audience. There are almost 200 Danfans/Carlock fans at nyc@dandom.com How come you don't email the list?


As for your insistence that Walter is attempting to play like Sumlin, where did he say that? Sure, Sumlin's an influence, but I doubt he is influenced or trying to play like him nearly as much as you suggest. I don't think that's what he's going for. The interviews I've read and heard with Walter has him focussing on economy of playing and "duetting" to other players. And hell yes, it IS his music, as Matt/Kid C pointed out.

On September 12 in the "New York Times," there was a great piece—albeit a very shory one—about Walter finally "accepting" his role as Steely Dan guitarist. There has also been a bit I have written several times before about the "spectrum of Steely Dan guitarists." The gist is that all are great, but what Walter does is for today's Steely Dan.

Again, SD 2003 (and the 90s for that matter) have reinvented themselves from the SD of the late 70s. Different musical entities with the same heritage.

jim

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 13:39:15 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

These two guys are very close, like brothers, as Don said to the crowd, and I'm certain that Don wants Walt to get up there and shine. He's been in the background too long and only Don knows just how much of Steely Dan's heartbeat is provided by Walt. For those of us lucky enough to have a few people still in our lives from 35 years ago, you can imagine what a source of continuity and wholeness knowing someone that long brings. You've got somebody who knew you when, you know a person's history, you're a part of the past and the present. That's a huge gift just on its own, but then there's also the aspect of working together professionally for most of those years and achieving this level of popular and artistic success. They pretty much melted down around 1980 and retreated to their respective corners for a while before this reapproachment of the last 10 years or so, a veritable renaissance bordering on the miraculous. They're like an old couple who have been through some shit but are still around. I think the greatest moments of their tour this time was watching them saunter on and take the stage. Goosebumps people, the shows I saw, the crowd got up on their feet and screamed out at their entrance. Big lump in my throat seeing these two old soldiers taking up their livery and storming once more into the fray. I admire them so much for not going gently into that goodnight and doing it with the kind of class you just don't see too much of these days.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 13:11:24 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Bruce:

Thanks for posting and thanks for being up front with your email and all. I disagree with your post but very much thank you for not hiding behind an anon name. Very gutsy and I admire you for that.

Regarding Walter being guitar egomaniac, some concrete quotes or even innuendos that Fagen feels this way?

There are interviews from circa 1993 & 1994 where Fagen talks about encouraging and coaxing Walter into playing guitar more and asked Walter to share vocal duties with him. In one interview, Fagen talks about how he'd like Walter and himself to "duet" more (which for me conjures up hilarious images of them singing like Loretta Lynn and Conway Twitty) and his wish that Walter would play more guitar. Fagen also took partial credit for pushing Walter to do a solo album. Fagen's encouragement, along with some of Walter's experience with producing and family encouragement that noodged WB to his solo album.

That said, I don't understand how you can write (except imaginatively and speculatively) that Fagen was "pissed" about the degree of Walter's participation in the recent tour and EMG. How do you know this? How do you know that the bass had to be mixed down on 2vN for this reason? If you are going to write that, then you better explain where so we can better understand the context that Fagen said it.

jim

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 12:37:21 ET
Posted by: hoops,

I think once people recover from the long trip to Hawaii, we'll see a lot more photos and reviews. Regarding some people who like to argue, I have to concur, some people discuss Steely Dan more to be right and prove what they perceive as superiority. A lot of hot air under the supposed guise of Steely Dan. Don't get me wrong, there's some great stuff, but some people argue with such a sense of self-importance that it becomes more important than Steely Dan.

As for this "stalker," all I can say is what I have said before, and its frustrating that people ignore me.

I believe I have already expressed this to mant of you:

1) Sure, this person needs help, but I how about assisting me? A few of you have been very generous in this regard but others haven't done anything but post complaints.

When this person comes in here (or in the Blue or apparently on St Al's chat or SIS guestbook) please email me right away with the name they are using, the IP address they have, (right click on the user's name in chat and select "IP Query" ) and the time they come in. I've requested this help before--and thanks to those who help-- but few are doing it. Unless I know this information, I can't do much since without documentation this person's ISP won't shut them down or take legal action, action which really could help this person get help!

2) Please don't chat with and do ignore this person; don't write about or otherwise allude to him/her in your posts on the BlueBook, don't email him/her in private either. I've made some progress behind the scenes but when you discuss him/her here or in chat or even email them in private, you are basically "enabling" then.

RULE NUMBER ONE HERE:
As for people fighting or disagreeing or trying to fuck with you, IGNORE THEM. Responding or posting "are people arguing" is dumb. It's always the same people I tell this to and it's always the same people who ignore this rule anyhow or can't help themselves and then complain.

Finally, a reminder:
If you feel someone is using your handle/screen name in chat, it's because you haven't given your handle a password. Despite my advice about this last week, no one has done this. Given the aggravation the person complaining about this and other things last week caused me, I'd rather they didn't come back, if they don't plan to follow my request. I've bent over backwards and took a lot of time to help and they have done nothing on their end.

So if you agree with all that I wrote above, then please don't respond, but instead go back to cordially and respectfully, if not humorously, discussing all things tangentially Dan. That's the reason this place is here. If you don't like it there are alternatives--this place can't be all things to all people.

hoops

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 12:07:19 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Girls never wanna fight. Unless it's over Don. Sheesh.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 12:01:55 ET
Posted by: Gretchen aka Aja,

Did I miss a post? Are people fighting again? I don't like to fight.
Molly, you are right on the money. We should just feel sorry for this so called "stalker" as she is a lost soul. Her whole existence is probably wrapped up in the internet. It's pathetic, really. Let's just hope she gets the help she needs so desparately.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 11:57:29 ET
Posted by: molly, ca

Are there any Hawaii photos out there? Or LA? I'm sure that the links or whatnot would be posted but I'm just curious. I also have an article that was from a local paper on the SB show on the 28th-I would need to reprint it-no link-really crappy article though-another DF as Ray Charles mention and WB as Colonel Sanders-putz writer...anyone interested?

let me know about the photos as they develop

and Hoops-what were you going to remind a few of us to discuss while the tour is over??? Fighting is fun sometimes but we can all agree it starts to get boring...

-mollydoll

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 11:40:31 ET
Posted by: Beerberian, still here

Surely if you incl Renee Fleming (one M) in the line-up Then we'd have to be talking Steely Diva ?

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 11:38:13 ET
Posted by: molly, ca

ok just to put it out there that I am not a 15 year old in a 26 year old body ready to throw my chonies at WB-I can dig what Bruce is saying after his 2nd post-I love SD and so the cds are in heavy rotation lately and I happen to be partial to WB-no, I agree, he is not the best guitarist or bassist-that would be another subjective discussion-but I dont think he puts himself out there to be the best-D & W have a great talent for composing and as musicians...nuff said....thier passion and love for it is evident...

and as for this stalker freak-let me just say that if you really are stalking WB-you're giving all of us "crush-ers" a bad name-just because I say WB is a sweet potato or if Gretchen goes on about DF does not mean we are out of touch with reality (I think)-we're just having fun- like I believe she said last night (Aja?)-she may never get to meet DF anyways...just a crush guys, nothing harmful!

later gators, mollydolly

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 11:33:57 ET
Posted by: RCRAY, NYU

The new issue of Blender magazine (A pretty decent rag) has a review of the new SACD version of Gaucho they give it 5 stars out of 5 stars. The review is very good and it talks about the LA scene at the time and how the Dan were making fun of the whole thing while still writing amazing tunes.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 11:22:53 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Man I really dig it when we fight like this. Who ya callin a groopie, Peter, ya big ol' music snob! But you are correct, musicology breath, it must get deadly dull for a guy like Weiskopf to blow the same stuff night after night, but hey, it's only for a couple months and the money has to be very good. Carlock, he's a kid and this had to be the biggest gig ever for him. Also, Carlock has a lot more wiggle room than the horn guys. I think Herington's had enough, D&W aren't calling for the soaring solos anymore, they've changed in a thousand little ways. Walter noodles and colors nicely on the guitar, I don't find him overbearing live but I do think the folks in here are correct in suggesting that he's doing too much on the records. Maybe we should start calling them Steely Downsized.

OK, I'll bite: who is Renee Flemming and could she sing Pixeleen?

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 09:51:31 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, blowin' in the CT wind

C'mon Pete. Not this fan. Can you imagine if they pulled a stunt like a kazoo version of "Mary had..."? They'd be slammed, crucified, exiled. We're demanding fans. I know I wouldn't be satisfied to hear anything substandard from D and W. Hearing them play just any old thing would be a gross disappointment, and downright unacceptable. I have high standards, and I don't throw panties. Not in public, anyway.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 09:46:08 ET
Posted by: Eel Reviewer, wrigglin'

Mary had a little lamb.. on a kazoo? Wow, bring it on.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 08:04:21 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Actually Beerberian there are quite a few spelling hooters in that post.

Bruce - your frankness is refreshing. In particular I have noticed that players with a more serious jazz bend don't tend to stay with the Dan for more than one tour. It is easy to see how musicians who are used to improvisational play might, after playing the same rehearsed show night after night for months, start to zone out a little.

That being said though, groupies will never listen to you. It's like telling a logger who cuts down trees in order to feed his family that his way of making a living is bad for the environment. You're slamming up against an impenetrable wall of self interest. Don and Walt could walk onstage, play Mary Had A Little Lamb with a kazoo, and the groupies would still go nuts. In principle the attitude is no different from 15 year old girls who throw their underwear at Ricky Martin - it's groupie-ism at a somewhat more sophisticated level, but the idea is exactly the same.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 06:33:48 ET
Posted by: Beerberian, as below

Peter Q whadya expect the guy can't even spell Fagen LMFAO ...

Incidentally if you go onto Mr Heringtons own web site and have a looksee at the news page http://jonherington.com/news.html just hover the mouse over the pic on that page - LOL, he is totally aware of the trouble Joe Public has with his surname ... Whatever

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 05:14:54 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Only a rock and roller would call the players who play with SD "session" players. What a joke.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 03:49:28 ET
Posted by: Beerberian, Mt Belzoni

talk about the famous road not taken ... How about The long and winding road that leads to OUR door...

The Bass Museum Friday Nov 7th The Dan Collective

www.thedancollective.co.uk Tickets avail now at a mere £5 sterling...

They played an awesome set to approx 120 back in May this year, So Please feel free to bring along friends / neighbours / lovers / colleagues and lets make this a night to remember in the history of UK Dandom .... Ticket reservations are coming in fast ....Do not die wondering IF ……………

Special reserved lawn seating to anyone who gets on over the pond ...

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 03:16:58 ET
Posted by: Hey Mu!,

DACW- No problem. Go back to the yellow with your long winded posts about politics.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 02:32:23 ET
Posted by: Murky Depth, down down down

DACW, my man, at least they're talking about Steely Dan here. Try to hang ...

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 02:21:37 ET
Posted by: Matt, Chattanooga

Becker insisted on playing all guitars? You know, it is his band. Do you get pissed off that Fagen insisted on singing all of the songs for the last 30 odd years? He could have gone out and hired Renee Fleming, who I think is universally hailed as one of the great singers of this generation. It's unfair that he gets to sing all of the songs just because it's his band and his voice has a certain tonality, style, and phrasing that may match the mood or feel of the song.

Walter is definately not an egomaniac, he's just a guy who has made a career out of being a songwriter and a musician, and who subsequently likes to play on the records he and his partner make.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 01:57:57 ET
Posted by: My Old Man, Back from Alanon

Who's better, Don or Walt? Well if you compare solo outings there really isn't an argument. Nightfly vs. 11 Tracks of Whack. uhhhhhhh let me think for a sec. Please. Nightfly is possibly one of the greatest concept albums ever recorded.

But it's wrong to even follow this line of thinking, since what they have created together is so superior to anything else posing as pop music since 1970. The sum of the parts, my Dandom friends. Who was better Lennon or McCartney? Rodgers or Hart? Cole or Porter?

Not to trash 11TOW to terribly. That song "Girlfriend" I really enjoy.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 01:41:18 ET
Posted by: Bruce Mills, Las Vegas

Re: My post et al
Yes, I spelled Herington wrong. I also invented a Barry Brecker (I used to have a friend by that name) when I meant Mike!!!
----------------------------------------------------
And To Thereon: They've not perfected anything! No one perfects jazz in merely one lifetime!
And if you notice, Fagan still has a pianist with him in the studio and on gigs. He obviously would rather let the best player play his music.
Becker, on the other hand, seems rather self induldgent by playing all the string insruments he can on the records. Because of this, the bass on "TAN" had to be mixed down so low (except on Gaslighting Abbie where Tom Barney played exceptionally, of course) and the entire project suffered.
I mean, Becker sounds like an egomaniac! He's not that good of a bass player or guitarist, but insisted on playing both instruments throughout all the cuts on both new albums.
I bet Fagan was pissed off that Tom Barney wasn't playing.
And so was I!

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 00:34:00 ET
Posted by: DACW ,

Herington was better than advertised at Dallas

This is my last post on this board.

Date: Wed, October 15, 2003, 00:26:09 ET
Posted by: Theron, The booniedox

Bruce:

I don't think Becker would consider himself a "blues" guitarist. I think he would consider himself a jazz guitarist if he were forced to classify himself. The fact is he is neither a jazz nor blues nor jazz/blues guitarist - he is a "steely dan" guitarist...with "jazz chops" of course. Oh yeah, he has been none to play the base as well, sometimes even at the same time he is playing lead (now how does that happen)??? It is safe to say Fagan is not a guitarist but in addition to being a jack of trade on many instrumentalities, he can also "work the saxaphone".

As far as skank goes...well...after his stint with the Doobie Bros - he started designing rocketts or some s**t. The reason Don & Walt were able to make SD what it is, is because they would stay true to their musical ideals even if the "cost" meant not conforming to top 40 immediately. They saw the real danger inherent in continuing down a "Pretzel Logic" road the way skank would have them go. So the end result, for Don and Walt, of letting skank and them go, was being in the top 40 on their own terms. Plus, they did not get the kind of brain damage that makes one, say, want to design rockets. Dude, have you heard the live version of "Bhottisatva" on the "Gold" compilation. Is that what you would have wanted? I perfer the live version on AIA, but if they would not have let skank and them go we would not have that - nough said.

Dias, on the other hand, must have been o.k because he stuck around to be featured on "Katy Lied" - nitrice bottle in hand, so he got to reserface on "Gaucho". I think he might have played with N.Y. R&SR - not sure.

The whole point is this - SD has always been Becker & Fagan. They "perfected" their style by working with session dudes. But like fine wine ages with time, their style is now "perfecting" itself. Hence more Becker buy himself.

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 23:38:10 ET
Posted by: Me,

How can anyone consider the legitimacy of criticisms of Jon Herington when the poster can't even spell his name correctly?

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 23:37:11 ET
Posted by: Theron,

Had a dream last night .... When the Dan recorded "Everything Must Go" they recorded enough material for two albums. Nobody knew about this till now. The next one is coming out next month! Is that whacked out or what????

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 22:44:23 ET
Posted by: DACW,

PQ: Yes, yes, it's an obvious tip 'o the fez to the Blue Note Days with pics and description blah blah

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 21:56:59 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Re Bruce Mills' post - the problem is that W. is trying to play like Hubert Sumlin (I wish I could count the number of interviews where W has said Sumlin is one of his favorite guitarists) and SD music doesn't quite fit that bill. Chess Records blues records are raw, down and dirty Chicago electric blues, like the jagged glass edges of a broken bottle - SD's music is way too refined, polished and slaved over for this style. The SD song (IMHO) where W's homages to Sumlin are most evident is Last Mall, although if you listen to a Sumlin classic like Howlin Wolf's Louise you immediately see the difference. It's exactly the same as Daryl Hall trying to sound like Barry White. Fugedabboutit.

No one wants to sit on top of the drums at 55 to see Carlock in a much more unrestricted venue and chit chat? Hard to believe.

Crack Whore- as a matter of fact the back sleeve of Katy Lied was deliberately designed to copy those old Riverside jazz (especially Cannonball's) albums.

Re - Gaucho lyrics - same themes as always - the car (drop him near the freeway), NY-Cal lifestyle clashes (acceptable in NY, not in the Custerdome), contraposition of verbal tenses (present with future in this case, as opposed to, say, present with past Reelin In The Years) Christian imagery dropped in from nowhere (Lord I know you're a special friend), etc, etc. Feverdreams.net click on the candles and daggers.

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 21:28:05 ET
Posted by: Bruce Miles, Vegas

To Rajah of Erase et al:

First of, I wasn't criticizing Herrington. I just want to know what exactly happened...why he stopped playing. Was it a technical problem or what?
Herrington is a monster (light years ahead of Becker) and I came to hear this guitar icon play as much as possible, but instead got Becker.
Speaking of Becker, he's a competent guitarist, but his forte is, and has always been composing. There's no shame in that. Look at Quincy Jones for instance. Some say his piano work is lacking, but his composing and arranging is brilliant.
Becker's work on Two Against Nature was excellent, but his guitar tracks were punched in again and again. Easily 10 times. Perhaps more.
If you contrast that album (TAN) with his work on EMG, (a less "perfectly-produced" album) you get a glimpse into the real Becker.
Not so polished, and frankly, a quite average blues guitarist.
On all of their previous albums SD relied on the best guitarists in the business...Denny Dias, "Skunk" Baxter, Elliot Randall, Carlton,
Khan, Graydon, etc., etc.,etc., to make their recorded work shine even brighter than what they had composed beforehand.
Becker played a solo here or there, but not even one of the "legendary" ones, the ones that sometimes launched careers, e.g. Larry Carlton.
So why change the formula after all these years???
Maybe other people don't approach SD's music from the perspective I do, (as a professional guitarist for 25 years) and so they see Becker (and the whole band) in a different light.
But I find it hard to believe that anyone could just overlook Denny Dias's solo on Reelin' In The Years, or on Aja. These and other solos
defined the band just as much as the compositions did. They were
truly memorable experiences, and now they are gone. Replaced by Becker and a truly great Jazz saxophonist, Weiskopf, who I still say
just coasted through the Vegas gig. Now if you wanted to hear passion in improvization, the "bone" was where it emanated from.
He played his heart out, and Weiskopf didn't. Just compare the albums to the gig. Weiskopf was blisteringly hot on the one hand (the albums) and quite passive on the other.
And the idiom doesn't mean a thing! A master jazz saxplayer can play with anyone and do anything he wants. Just look at Barry Brecker! He goes from atonal jazz, straight over to playing solos for James Taylor. Weiskopf was burnt out, and so was the rest of the group.
Perhaps it was also the reputation that this pathetic town has?
Speaking of James Taylor, he wouldn't play Vegas at all 'till about 8 years ago. The greed emanating from the casinos turned him off. It turns me off too and I live here......unfortunately!
Before I sign off, I want you all to realize that I love Steely Dan,
with or without Becker's solos. He's had two albums now to display his
chops, and I think he should be gracious enough to step aside (except for an occasional solo, or an occasional bass part) and let the masters, the guys who helped make Steely Dan, take over once more.
If he doesn't, he's only fooling himself, and possibly taking Donald Fagan down with his seemingly selfish, egotistical, "I wanna' do it all," attitude!

Sincerely,
Bruce

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 21:23:05 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Molly - word up and nuzzles to your nuance, seriously.

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 20:36:44 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Molly - you are a genius, seriously. Gaucho IS about D & W, and the Gaucho is...Keith Jarret. The Custerdome is where they were after AJA, at the peak of their game. And just like the Last Stand, they were sitting ducks for anyone (Jarret) who wanted to bring them down. Then the world swoops in and ba-boom, the both of them were thrown completely off course. We raise our heroes up in this society, then we crucify them for it. It's positively Biblical, for goodnessakes. But it's either Donald blaming Walt or vice-versa, I get that feeling.

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 20:17:53 ET
Posted by: molly, ca

Joey-I read the interpretations on Feverdreams and SoulMonkey was closest-
I see it more of a partnership rather than a homosexual relationship-I tend to see our two boys here D & W, fresh off of a platinum selling album, in the Custerdome of the music biz if you will-or Hollywood-and one of them starts to get into junk ( a little too much)-apparently D & W have said that a common theme in their lyrics involves a relationship between two people where one ends up straying off to another person or subject be it drugs, religion, a lover, etc.... so the narrator's partner(W?) starts bringing this flashy dude around-not a homosexual but a flashy dealer type-all the while other people in the biz are noticing this and "laughing" at him ( the narrator) telling him to "get rid of him"-the line "I dont care what you do at home" is now implying that the drug use is affecting the workplace-OK the Gaucho wearing the friend's poncho and shoes I'm not too sure on-maybe that these items represent the partner's selling of his identity to the dealer-losing himself in the junk-"drop him near the freeway" -another drug dealer reference like "under the bridge"-"holding hands with the man from Rio"(uh,hmmm,South America? Drugs?) and of course my favorite "with the studs that match your eyes"-pinholes in the eyes, a heroin addict's tell tale sign....
OK so there we go-all the songs are open to interpretation of course and I know that SD was known to write simply stories and not personal tales but I dont know about this one...after that ba-boom..they skipped dimensions...one cleaned up and the other moved onward..

-molly

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 18:42:49 ET
Posted by: DACW ,

Rajah,

Yes, the narrator is concerned that the "don't ask don't tell" but assumed quiet cover will be blown as he moves up in Hollywood society, revealed throughout the album's remainder as glossy hypocrisy...it's wryer than The Birdcage, but you getr my drift...I wonder thought if the Hollywood Society is doomed or the narrator's upward mobility or both - after all high in the Custerdome oblivious of the pending Sioux amBUSH...

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 18:14:15 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase,

Molly - I think the Gaucho is a fascinating, haunting, perplexing person. He reminds me of those characters in Chekhov plays who are talked about but never appear. They're always down the hall, in another room, waiting in the sleigh outside. Here he's snapping his fingers to music within eyeshot presumably of our narrator. I have a friend who said he always felt like the Gaucho, the outsider, the impostor, the unworthy, the substandard. Oh no, that's George Bush but seriously, there is no character in all of Steely Dan more shadowy than the Gaucho. He doesn't seem to have a home, he's a nomad. The song is disturbing. I read it as a gay lovers' spat but mixed in with some sort of illegal activity going on high in that Custerdome. He's a boudaceous cowboy, openly gay in his spangled leather poncho. I get the sense that the gaucho is blowing (no pun intended) the narrator's cover, there's a social gathering going on up there in the Custerdome that's somehow tied to business, money, deals. The narrator sounds like a jealous wife but she's savvy enough to know that apart from what kind of side action her hubby is getting, Gaucho does NOT belong here. She'll get around to kicking his ass when the gaucho is shown the door.

That's it -- it's about a kid bringing a stray dog home to his mom during a dinner party!

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 18:00:43 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" I was pondering the lyrics of "Gaucho" and was thinking of a more personal angle of the song being about our two boys here and a drug dealer-maybe Don singing for Walter-could definitely go this way tho I know that they were usually more cryptic than that opting for more of a fictional story- "

Molly , Oleander's site offers up a great interpretation of Gaucho :

http://www.feverdreams.net/gauchothesong.htm

J.

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 17:28:49 ET
Posted by: molly, ca

Gretchen-I totally hear you on Donald-major purrrrrr-and as for being a whole-you are right on-Walter is just my personal preference because he is more subtle, more hidden,you don't hear him on every track but you hear his "voice", nerdy charm,the snarkier snark, etc.....

Raj- you're killing me!!!!

OK- I think I'll open up this can of worms-maybe it has been opened already but it is not mentioned on Feverdreams :
I was pondering the lyrics of "Gaucho" and was thinking of a more personal angle of the song being about our two boys here and a drug dealer-maybe Don singing for Walter-could definitely go this way tho I know that they were usually more cryptic than that opting for more of a fictional story- like the studs could be like the eyes of a junkie, etc..check it out or just tell me to piss off because it has been discussed too too too many times...thanks!

laters, mollydoll

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 17:11:23 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" Don is chief of staff at the research institute and sends Walter out for body parts late at night. That's why he's always got an appointment with a joker. Don as Gene Wilder, Walt as Marty Feldman in Young FrankenDan. "

Priceless ! I really think Walt would enjoy the job too ...................................

P.S. I see Larry Hagman in there somewhere . Developing !

Joey !

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 16:51:58 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase, L.A.

The fanny pack is totally Walty. He's the nerd's nerd. I see him in a white lab coat with pocket protector. Slide rule (remember those?) hanging from a belt loop. And fanny pack. Crooked name tag. Don is chief of staff at the research institute and sends Walter out for body parts late at night. That's why he's always got an appointment with a joker. Don as Gene Wilder, Walt as Marty Feldman in Young FrankenDan.

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 15:52:45 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

It's so hard to say who is the "better" half of SD, as they are both essential parts to the whole, in different ways. Without either, we wouldn't have half of the energy and uniqueness which has given them lasting appeal for 30 years. I love seeing both of them, and I'd see either one of them in a solo show as well (especially Don). For me, though, Don is really incomparable. I'm just drawn to him for many reasons. There's just something about him that sets him apart. And he's sexy. Really, really sexy.

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 15:42:23 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 15:24:50 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" WB to me is the best part/half of SD-no belittling DF "

Amen Molly ! Walter is " THE MAN !!!! "

And my Rajah , you are correct -- I completely forgot about a DVD of the tour !

Gotta be one coming very very soon .

Joey !

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 14:49:37 ET
Posted by: molly, Ca

Yes, Joey, WB was the star, the GLUE, my seat in SB was never better, 7th row right in line w/ WB to watch his class act on stage...

Bruce baby-trying to get a rise out of all of us? Little ego plumping needed maybe? Little WB Bashing? That's OK, you'll git what you ask fo'...

WB to me is the best part/half of SD-no belittling DF but...those little licks and noodles and "wry narrative games" in lyric and on his guitar and bass are what perk up my ears..the voice of controversy is nothing but lovely gritty honey to me-the songs he sang on this tour are now HIS no doubt about it-like a glove-only wish I had them on a recording...

Aside from all that he's a sweet potato...just needs to ditch the fanny pack,tho (manbeach.com)(photos of guests)

OK, as my eyes are batting feverishly, I'll drop my handerchief right here and sashay away......

mollydolly

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 14:47:37 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase, L.A.

Joey baby - it's gotta be a DVD of SD on the tour. Like, documentary style, some tunes, some funny stuff and like dat. Even though we'd love it, don't think they'd do another live album so soon. (8 years, that's too soon for these guys no?) But realizing now what a ham Walter is, I think he'd be up for showing the world what a clown he is off-stage. These guys don't need a script to be funny, they're witty, topical, have great historical perspective of the last fifty years and beyond, and waay funnier than most comedians out there.

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 14:28:08 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" What a tour! Stay tuned to SD.com for some big news coming later this year/early next year.

Aloha,

Lonnie the Kingpin
("surf's up") "

Lonnie ..................you make Joey giddy . What have you heard ?!?!?! Please , tell your young Joey just a snippet of what you's knows about the " Dan's Plans " .....................I's a Begging!!!!!!!

Jercee !

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 13:24:41 ET
Posted by: Pam, Terrapin Station

RCray: I always thought WB sounded like what Jerry meant. If that makes sense.... No serious slam to the dearly departed intended =).

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 13:02:50 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" But now, with Becker playing almost ALL the bass, and All the guitar, Steely dan has changed...in my opinion, for the worse. "

You make Young Joey Weep and Sh## Liquid ! -- Why ?!?!?!

Why must you make Joey use so much toilet paper today ?!?!?! WHY ?!?!?!?!

It is my profound opinion that Walter Becker was THE STAR of this tour -- he was the " Glue " that held everything together -- How you say ?????? ..... HE " Had Game " tonight and every night !!!!!!

The image that I will carry with me forever on this tour is the concerned expression on Walter's face whilst on stage in Denver as Donald muffed another set of lyrics REALLY bad . Walter actually removed the guitar off of his lap , got off of his stool and walked over center stage right towards Don as if he were about to Whisper the lyrics into Fagen's ear ...............

Was it the altitude ?!?!?!

Was it Stage Fright ?!?!?!

Was it the Chiba Chiba ?!?!

Perhaps Don should have done as Pete Townshend did last summer whilst on stage with The Who in Denver ( same venue ) and bray : " Yes , the air is a bit thin up here , isn't it ?!?!?!?! ......Bring me Vodka !!!! ...............Bring Me Prostitutes !!!!!! .................Bring Me Giorgio Armani !!!!!! .......................Bring Me ( reflective pause ) ...............What else do I need ?!?!?!?!?! Ah , ........OXYGEN !!!!!!!!!!!! " " Funny how one could ask for all of those things BEFORE Oxygen --- Isn't the human condition interesting ??????? "

Well Said !!!!


Joey ( still hoping/praying for more Dan next summer ) !

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 12:53:02 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase, L.A.

Bruce - thank you for your very frank opinion of the Vegas show. Of course, now get ready for the big slamola from the Dandom. I saw the two LA shows after Vegas, (I think there was a Santa Barbara show after Vegas), and they sounded great, Donald especially and I think his voice is the most crucial component of the show. But as to your criticism of Herington, I must agree that he sometimes disconnects from the recorded versions of the old songs, I think it's conscious, a choice agreed upon by all. This is not the Steely Dan of the 70s, it's a kinder gentler. Now Weiskopf's idiom is NOT rock or rhythm & blues so I have to give him a pass. He did not display flaming virtuosity, he was more of a team player the three times I saw him. Can you recall, cause I can't, whether Don or Baker did the thirds in AJA, you know, the part that sounds like big-ass but muted Chinese bells?

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 12:43:21 ET
Posted by: Rcray, NYU

I thought Becker's work on the EMG tour was quite good. HE doesn't jam but he plays in a subtle way that reminds me of how Garcia would play on a few Dead tunes..Althea to be exact.

It would be nice if he would stretch out a bit more and jam but that just isn't his style.

I saw Peter Frampton last month and blew Herrington away. Now it might be the material is more geared to guitar but he was awesome and if you have ever seen the Dead live, Garcia was GOD!

Hopefully they will release a Live DVD/CD of this tour so we can take a closer look.

Regards,

rCrAy

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 11:45:35 ET
Posted by: Bruce Mills, Vegas

About the Vegas show, (or the road to Mandalay Bay (hotel) as SD proclaimed)...well...it was lacking.
What I witnessed, was a bunch of great musicians burnt out as hell from being on the road so long.
You see, Vegas was one of the last stops on the tour. I believe there were a few dates in CA and that was it.
So they were burnt, (and they hate touring to begin with!) and it showed!
It showed on their faces, and it showed in the music, although the sound was appreciably better than the "Two Against Nature" tour. But sound is not musicianship.
Weiskopf wasn't blowing hot at all like he did in the studio, and it really pissed me off. Additionally, Herrington apparently had sound problems (or who knows what.) In AjA: the first song of the night,
as he was about to emulate the beautiful Denny Dias solo, here's what happened. It was kind of weird!
He played the first beautiful three or four notes that Denny did (so his guitar was working) and then suddenly stopped playing until Denny's last A and F, which Herrington played.(Two notes!) He stopped again, and didn't start 'till the background guitar duo arangement with Becker; The part in fifth's.
So I don't know what happened. But I do know I would have liked to have heard a lot more Herrington then Becker on guitar. Anyone would or should: Herrington blows Becker away hands down.
And Becker just continuously riffed throughout the songs, while Herrington played rhythm. And Becker had the audacity to announce Herrington as the "Lead Guitar Player!" Not from where I was listening, Walter!
It was like Beckers own little jam session, and in my opinion it lowered the overall quality of the band, as it sometimes did on the last two albums.)
To me, Steely Dan has always been about the songs AND the terrific backup players. They played their hearts out and made mediocre songs superb, and great songs even greater.
That was the formula. And it worked well.
But now, with Becker playing almost ALL the bass, and All the guitar, Steely dan has changed...in my opinion, for the worse.
I really have no idea for sure, but I suppose that's why they split up years ago. Becker wanted a more inclusive role on bass and guitar. Well, now he's got it, and as I said above, It lowered the overall quality of the band.
Where it will lead I don't know. But I do know that I wanted to hear more of Herrington and less of Becker.
And I suspect I'm not the only one.

Sincerely,
Bruce

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 10:46:03 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

NY Danheads, Carlock is playing with Krantz & Lefeberve once more at the 55 Bar on Oct 23. Who wants to check it ou?

Date: Tues, October 14, 2003, 04:23:54 ET
Posted by: Scotty & Jen, Waikiki

The concerts are over, everyone has gone.

We said farewell to some dear friends today and watched the sun set over Waikiki beach and realised what an amazing summer this has been for so many people.

Lets all be thankful that we had the opportunity to experience other worldly magic. Each of us will have different memories but guaranteed they will all be good.

So here's to Steely Dan, good friends and great memories.

Should we turn out the lights when we leave this paradise?

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 20:35:26 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Alan, et al, Chris, others:
Thanks for the report from HI. Sounds like a wedding, bash and all.

Alan:
Would you be so kind as to email me privately? Just click on my name right above, next to "Posted by:"

THANKS again!

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 19:51:53 ET
Posted by: Scotty, Alan and Jen, Waikiki

Aloha all,

Sorry for the tardiness of this post, but we have had a lot happen over the last few days.

The Maui concert venue was like an outdoor wedding reception. We all thought we were in the wrong place. Stunning backdrop, deck chairs, lots of flowers & palm trees, a nice grass area off to the side and a cool tropical breeze.

This gig was in the smallest venue and we all felt like personal guests of Donald & Walter. The PA system they used was the house gear and it was first rate.

When kid C came on, the security guys let us all down the front and there must have been 200 of us dancing and singing to the best music on the planet. Up close and personal, in that venue with that music playing was indeed, heaven.

It feels like we have been in Waikiki for a week, although it has been only less than 3 days.

You guys have read the show reviews, so a couple of highlights that are show related:

Danfest at the Banyon Verandah, under the Banyon Tree, on Waikiki Beach at sunset.

Alan & SueDave organised a limo for the Wreckless Crew and the rest of the entourage. 10 of us rode in style to the show whilst singing SD songs in luxury.

SouthOfHollywood standing up on his first wave while surfing Waikiki.

Fanofdan is dead. Long live THE BIG KAHUNA !!!!

Danfiend & Mr Sam, you will never get sick again, we drank to your health so many times.

More to come when we sober up a bit.

Mahalo

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 17:54:34 ET
Posted by: Lonnie the Kingpin, 7th Avenue

Aloha Dan fans ~

My source in Hawaii has confirmed that our boys played the "full" set list in Honolulu as they did in Concord. Lunch with Gina was followed by EMG and Parker's Band, etc. No changes to speak of. The "incense ceremony" headed by WB and the girls sounds to be very funny. "What happened on the road, stays on the road." Very nice. The crowd did not get up until My Old School -- par for most audiences. Walter claimed it was their best show -- although nothing can compare to Roseland (nites I and II) and Concord -- they smoked on that show! Plus, no video action in Hawaii. No dogs playing during Josie/Carlock's solo (new for Concord).

What a tour! Stay tuned to SD.com for some big news coming later this year/early next year.

Aloha,

Lonnie the Kingpin
("surf's up")

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 17:20:25 ET
Posted by: fife, ontario

Hey thats the photo from the toronto show, the black out lol. cool

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 15:56:15 ET
Posted by: molly, CA-at work

per my request my radio station is playing a "deep cut" of "New Frontier" right now-piss yeah!!!!!

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 13:06:25 ET
Posted by: Q, HI

Yes,

Janie Runaway was played during the last show

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 12:19:34 ET
Posted by: hoops, chicago

Honolulu Star review just posted in the last hour.

"Steely Dan is heaven in Concert" is tha article's headline. We all emphatically agree.

http://starbulletin.com/2003/10/13/features/story4.html

Plenty to do discuss and chat about when there's no tour. Details to remind some of you soon.

jim

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 12:17:04 ET
Posted by: molly, CA

Just perusing the Wall Street Journal-nice little Dan mention in the Marketplace section-talking about how to expand one's taste in music through the internet-author of the article mentions putting Steely Dan into the search engine and coming up with Allman Brothers references and Doobie eferences rather than say John Cale or Fountains of Wayne (hmm two more I need to check out now)-also nice little quote on how to the author SD means "wry narrative games" whereas to most folks they mean "70's arena rock"-how then apples grab ya?

wry narrative games-very nice

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 11:49:58 ET
Posted by: kram-funny now what, vt

Now that its done -What in world does anyone of the
"Top 10" posters do with tons of time on their hands?
me thinks its on to the neil diamond or abba chat rm
bye dan, don't croak b4 the next tour

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 11:34:37 ET
Posted by: Laina, SLO

Arrrrrgh I wish my shirts had the HI dates on it!! *shakes fist*

They played Royal Scam in Hawaii?

*faints*

Lainalove

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 11:33:25 ET
Posted by: molly, CA

i have this Nina Simone record titled, "It Is Finished" and she is sitting there all beat and sad and tired looking and it kind of just says it all in regards to the tour-I keep saying to myself sadly, "it is finished"...

what a truly excellent tour this was, i never imagined being able to go to 3 shows much less sit in the 7th row...

until next time but for now, it is finished

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 10:40:10 ET
Posted by: Beerberian , Europa

Hey Joey ... Wait your turn We're next PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 10:08:46 ET
Posted by: Joey ,

" Now that the tour is over, what are they going to do? Here are some suggestions: "

Ah Yeah , How about another tour of the states NEXT summer ?!?!?!?!

Developing .............................

YES !!!!!


Joey !

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 08:06:18 ET
Posted by: Mitchell, Hawaii

Just to add to Scott's Hon. HI set list, I know they played:

-godwhacker
-Everything Must Go
-Caves of Altamira
-Steely Dan Show

I think they played Janie Runaway too, but maybe I'm just making things up.

The end of the tour ritual basically involved the dan orchestra members opening their special envelopes, lighting incense, and repeating after WB. I just remember them saying stuff like... Whatever happened during the summer tour is to be kept confidential amongst the band members. "what goes on the road, stays on the road"... DF and WB would always be welcome to their homes and their pantries would be stocked with their (DF and WB's) favorite treats.

Anyway, the show was great, and I'm glad that my tour shirt actually has the Hawaii dates on it.

- Mitchell

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 06:38:56 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

< A compilation album featuring songs from the touring bands' solo projects.>

Huh? Why don't you just buy their CDs? On his website Jim Pugh claims to be on more than 4000 recording sessions, think you might be able to find one somewhere? Weiskopf has nine solo albums, Herington is on more albums than you can count, ditto Tom Barney, Carlock's best recorded work is easily available on the Wayne Krantz trio albums, etc, etc, ad infinitum. Before the tour Cornelius played this great pub in Jersey every Friday night. You seem to be unaware that most of the people in the band are gigging constantly, all over the country, year round, kind of like real jazz musicians.

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 04:50:15 ET
Posted by: Scott, Hawaii

Saw the concert last night in Honolulu. Couldn't truly believe how tight the band was - horns were just incredible, and everyone else was great. One of the best musical experiences of my life, although I felt as though I had been taken back 25 years - and wondered once again about the magical ability of music to transcend time and space.
Walt was really a focal point for me - his end of show/end of tour ritual was just priceless. Does anyone know if there is a copy of his "end of tour pledge" somewhere?
Here is a partial set list - my apologies for any errors:

steely dan concert 11 Oct 03 Honolulu -

1-Aja
2-Time out of Mind
3-"In the Beginning...."
4-Royal Scam
5-Black Cow
6-
7-Babylon Sisters
8-Daddy Don't Live in that NYC No More
9-Peg
10-Home at Last
11-
12-
13-Hey Nineteen
14-Haitian Divorce
15-Lunch with Gina
16-
17-Parker's Band
18-Josie
19-Kid Charlemange
20-Don't Take Me Alive
21-
22-My Old School
23-FM

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 04:46:27 ET
Posted by: For Laina, press 1; for Lanai, press 2

Theron, re: the '96-'00-'03 live album--I would love to hear a good version of "Cash Only Island". That song is great.

The show's over, folks. At least for this year...who knows what's in store for the future. Wonderful tour this summer, though.

Where are the Hawaii folks?!?!? *mutters* Off enjoying Hawaii and having too much fun to sit at a boring computer. *sigh*

Lainalove

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 02:45:23 ET
Posted by: Theron,

Here are the next things they should release:

*Another live album w/ songs that were not on AIA - recorded over the span of 96-'00-'03. Preferably a double CD or better yet a boxed set.

*A CD of Don, Walt, and the complete '03 EMG touring band doing doing covers of Charlie Parker, Duke Ellington, Coaltrain & others.

*Another Donald Fagen solo album

*Another Walter Becker solo album

*A compilation album featuring songs from the touring bands' solo projects.

*A "joint headliner tour" featuring seperate perdormances from Becker & Fagan.

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 01:04:15 ET
Posted by: steelydoubt,

http://www.deviantart.com/view/1596321/


:-)

Date: Mon, October 13, 2003, 00:22:08 ET
Posted by: angel,

Lights go out on the official Dan Page. Run your mouse over the image, to turn out the lights.....Everything Must Go. Cute lyric quotes on some of the EMG pages.
By the way, it says no more tour dates in 2003, but it says nothing about 2004..... :-)
Ever hopeful, in the midst of sadness. Thanks guys for an unforgettable summer. I had a blast.

Date: Sun, October 12, 2003, 15:46:02 ET
Posted by: Javier, again..., (number nine, number nine, number nine....)

I Agree with that Sting CD review. It is really a bad, bad album.

Javier.

Date: Sun, October 12, 2003, 15:43:09 ET
Posted by: Javier H. Moreno, back from Rome

Donald Fagen keeps his eyes on the sky while singing "Time Out Of Mind".

Now that the tour is over, what are they going to do? Here are some suggestions:

1. A Live Album. Double CD - DVD or something like that. Not like "Alive In America," please...
2. A Walter Becker solo album.
3. 2004, 11 years from Kamakiriad and 11 years from The Nightfly. Time for another Donald Fagen conceptual solo album.
4. Another brain storm songwriting session for the next Dan album. I'll be waiting.
5. If TimeWarner permits, re-issues of The Nightfly and Kamakiriad with B-Sides and Bonus Tracks. I'm still waiting.

Welcome, Greg from OZ, to the DanDom circle.

Date: Sun, October 12, 2003, 15:29:16 ET
Posted by: DanAudioCrackWhore,

Yes, GREAT TOUR! Best Band ever!

The only immediate hope for sales and the RIAA is PIXELEEN!!!!!!!!


New releases:

Volcano

Edie Brickell (Paul Simon's wife or better Paul simon is Edie Brickell's husband)

Sounds like her best group of songs yet...However, age is taking a little toll on her thin voice. I'd like to hear Carolyn, Cindi, and Cynthia sink their teeth into these compositions


Sacred Love
Sting

ZERO STARS

It's a real shame. A man who with Stewart Copeland and Andy Summers breathed life, intelligence, and soul into New Wave, who explored his jazzy routes with the explorative Dream of the Blue Turtles. reached a pinnacle with the magnificently lyrical Nothing Like the Sun, challenged us with the deep, dark, modal melancholy of Soul Cages, or entertained with the brilliant fusion that permeated most of Ten Summoner's Tales. The inconsistent recordings that are Mercury Falling and Brand New Day are now revealed as not just a bump in the road, but a snowballing path towards ARTISTIC SENILITY... that is Sacred Love...

...Sting simply takes the experiments in techno on Brand New Day and now is the most lively part of the production which is virtually unrecognizable from Madonna or Britney...Yes, there's a hint of classical and jazz, but nothing original, clever, or more importantly interesting...it's bad enough that Sting is relegated to hum-drum, slightly downer post-modern pop. but the lyrics are a dreary combination of hypocrisy, preachiness, and naivete from a man with seven castles (for seven brothers).


If Steely Dan (or sympathy vote for George Harrison's Last One) doesn't win the Grammy, Rickie Lee Jones' New One "Evening of the Best Day" just might - I haven't heard it all yet, but so far it features a tight jazzy harmony style that's reminscent of the Brilliant "Pirates" released 22 years ago and much more deserving of Grammys than the debut album...a few swipes at Dubya to keep you left-wingers happy, and you don't need to be stoned on oxycontin to hear that it may not be possible to overrate Evening...

Ugly Man and a Second Chance could have easily come from Pirates and Little Mysteries makes one imagine what Sir Paul COULD have written in his solo daze...

Oh yes, Rickie has GO CUBS! on her website - she must be OK in my book!

Date: Sun, October 12, 2003, 15:12:24 ET
Posted by: danfiend,

Man,

It's over.

Donald and Walter, Thank You both for the one of the best summers of my entire life. Getting to witness your magic in concert is a privlege I will NEVER take for granted.

So, now what?! More cds? A Walter Becker solo effort, perhaps? That solo Fagen project we've heard rumors of over the past six months? Another Dan cd in three years? One, two, all of the above, I don't care! Just keep making music D&W!

Let's Do It Again! STEELY DAN IN 2006!

It could happen.

danfiend


PS: Aussie Torres email me

Date: Sun, October 12, 2003, 12:41:04 ET
Posted by: BOB, NYC

Ok, it's over. So where do they go from here? Record sales for EMG where way down, compared to the splash that 2VN had on the charts. So with the long awaited return passe, do they ever have another big seller? Also, EMG was mostly comprised on left over musicial arrangements from 2VN. How long before they have 9 to 12 quality songs ready to publish? Is it work, or is it play?

When do we see them again on tour? They had large audiences at every stop and tourning is very profitable for the band. However, does it require 2 and 3 year absences to draw the big crowds?

Will Donald resume his solo career?

Date: Sun, October 12, 2003, 12:33:58 ET
Posted by: Abu2, Symmetrical and Clean

"I find that after I listen to their stuff after awhile its hard to listen to other music as it sounds a bit loose and basic."

I'm with you on this! AND a bit formulaic as well. There's such a cinematic quality for me as well, in the course of the narrative of SD music. The visual renderings are so complete, yet they live A LOT of room for personal interpretation,like a good tightly crafted novel that you can read again and again. Like a beautifully carved diamond,you can come away with a different take each time you view/listen!

Date: Sun, October 12, 2003, 11:34:34 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, hedonist

Hey Scottie, Alan, and Geoff
What's the good word on the shows? Details, please.
Don appears wizard-like on that Maui news cover. He looks good in purple.

Date: Sun, October 12, 2003, 10:32:56 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Couldn't be, it was originally recorded for Gaucho in 1980.

Date: Sun, October 12, 2003, 10:28:20 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

I thought SA was about the new version of Reelin debuted in the 93 tour ...

Date: Sun, October 12, 2003, 09:59:16 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

I thought The Second Arrangement was a reference to the 1968 novel The Arrangement by Elia Kazan, also made into a movie w. Kirk Douglas, since the subject matter is exactly the same.

Date: Sun, October 12, 2003, 06:22:59 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, what a hangover

Get ready Gretchen I don't want you to swoon, fall off your chair and hurt yourself - nice photo of Donald on the front page of the Maui News - very infotmal attire for the show.

http://www.mauinews.com/

Date: Sun, October 12, 2003, 06:00:20 ET
Posted by: Greg Tilley, Melbourne\Australia

Hi American Dudes ! ! I'm probably one of the Biggest Steely Dan fans down under ! I have never email to the good old US of A but love the country, in fact I'd rather be there than here. Anyway I just wanted to hook with any one who will talk back and talk a bit of Steely Dan. What a Great Band ! So tight, The guys are Genius and very few come even close to what they've done. I find after I listen to their stuff after a while its hard to listen to other music as it sounds a bit loose and basic.

All the best from OZ !! Greg.

Date: Sun, October 12, 2003, 01:20:19 ET
Posted by: Javier "Jive Miguel" Moreno, in an AVIANCA flight Lima-Bogotá-Los Angeles

Dear Peg:

I have that RS magazine (#933, Johnny Cash on the cover) and it is full of Dan stuff. It has the advertise for the SACD version of "Gaucho," -where you can find the Fagan typo, also- and the Best Dan Ever picture is from a show in NY. Picture credits: David Pomponio, www.filmmagic.com . They also comment about Porcaro's death. Believe it or not, I never relate Porcaro with the Dan, I don't know why. Even when he played the entire Katy Lied, for me it was just a studio musician, a good one, and a member of a band called Toto. By the way... who else besides Porcaro and Griffin have passed away?

Javier.

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 21:13:50 ET
Posted by: Abu2,

Theron-

-As in,the Magnificent One.......the One & ONLY One......'Mr. Steely Dan'.........or whatever!

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 21:04:34 ET
Posted by: Peg, Back from the dead (almost)

Hey Javier, Yes, RS DID give Aja 5 stars and put it in their honorable hallowed list a couple years ago. So they forgot their own star count. They've done worse before.

Hey, forgive me if you all have noted this previously, but the new RS has a mention of some Steely stuff and Steely related stuff, too. It is dated Oct. 16 and has Johnny Cash on the cover. They refer to Jeff Porcaro on page 30 and the real story behind his death, and there is a photo of Walt and Don from a New York show on page 40 in Random Notes, with a caption of "Best Dan Ever." "Smells like the Hindu Kush in here," said Walter Becker," it begins. Referring to reefer (I always wanted to write that phrase).

They never say if the photo is from the show at the state fair venue or the Roseland show. Anybody out there know? Hmmm?

In other news, gosh it is good to be back home in Dandom. Missed ya all.

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 20:27:36 ET
Posted by: DACW , Throw out the hardware, let's do it right

Q: Wish I could be there...a show au naturel...send review and pics

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 20:02:01 ET
Posted by: Q & THE Mrs. in Hawaii, Honolulu

Here fot the last one.

Will post set list.

I was told that they brought a very stripped down sound system and no visuals - fine with us.

Aloha!!!!

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 17:50:56 ET
Posted by: BOB, NYC

Looking for news on the 2 shows in Hawaii. I get it for good sources that donald and walter are buying homes in that garden wonderland. Anybody heard anything of this?

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 15:06:15 ET
Posted by: Nazman, Soul Monkey Central

Agreed, Lonnie, where's the news from the islands?

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 13:49:16 ET
Posted by: Lonnie the Kingpin, 7th Avenue

Aloha Kids ~

Now where are the posts from the Islands? Did they play the "Five-O" theme at any point as I predicted months ago? Did they play a full show. How were the lei's DF and WB wore? Did any Dan fans get lei'd? Please let me and our host, Mr. Hoops, know what's up!!

Still sweepin' the playroom,

Lonnie the Kingpin

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 11:30:29 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Regarding CTE getting 5 stars, I have the original RS interview and I think it only got 3 stars! Happens all the time with RS--it's a fashion mag after all. I remember they ripped Van Morrison's "Hymns To the Silence" back in 1991 when it came out. Then at the end of the 90s, they came out with "The Best 100 Albums of the 90s" and it was on the list! Either they changed their mind or most everything else was *even* worse.

So hey, I slept with my phones next to me last night. No calls from Hawaii!! I think that means the show was SOOOO GREAT that everyone was too busy celebrating! Glad to hear that (or actually not hear that), but can't wait to hear if there were any sweet treats and surprises.

I was telling someone that I imagined the stage at Maui to be surround by beautiful flowers and fauna, no wonder they left some of the visuals back on the mainland, despite that they too were sublime.

jim

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 09:59:07 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

Javier- Thanks for the review. Totally agree with their 5-stars for CTE. Have always thought SD's first "masterpieces" were on that album, or that's where their special gifts first really were confirmed. Downgrading Aja may just be a way of being cool -- everybody else thinks it deserves 6 stars, but not us... (Liberal media and all that.)

I was listening to Bodhisattva last night and marvelling (for the gazillionth time) how they could make such great music AND make the music itself funny. Glad RS picked up on that.

Still Sparkin' - The term "release chord" is perfect. Don't hear it on the other songs, but will listen again. Still think the BC "release" is unique.

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 01:54:26 ET
Posted by: Javier H. Moreno Pollarolo, Between Richmond and El Cerrito, California

Dear Hoops and the Gang:

I just read the latest Rolling Stone issue, the one with Alicia Keys, Mary G. Blidge and Eve on the cover, and there´s a review of Countdown To Ecstasy (*****). I was glad to read a review like this one, guys. From an album that came the same year I was born, jeez, I'm glad I was born in 1973!!! :D .

"Walter Becker and Donald Fagen were wiseass New York musician nerds stranded in L.A. in the early Seventies, and they poured all the cynicism and paranoia of that circumstance into Steely Dan, the most notorious studio band in the annals of classic rock. Their second album, Countdown to Ecstasy, was the only record by the reclusive duo written for an actual live band, and you can tell -- especially on hoo-ha! cuts such as "My Old School," a catchy little tune about college placement and prostitution, with its pounding, stupidly grinning piano riffs; scorching guitar solos, somehow both showy and unself-conscious; and above all, jubilant horn charts. "The Boston Rag" begins as a sophisticated, jazzy number, but then the band players forget themselves: The solo by Jeff "Skunk" Baxter is as nasty, distorted and molten as rock guitar has ever been. The jump and jive of "Bodhisattva" is so celebratory, it could be the music for a Looney Tunes cartoon. Smart, conflicted bands from Weezer to the Eels owe Steely Dan big time, not because guys with glasses should stick together, but because on Countdown to Ecstasy, the band was human, not just brainy. Like good stretches of the Stones' Exile on Main Street, this is a record where Steely Dan let slip their extraordinary mask of sarcasm, and could not disguise the joy in these excellent songs, or the fact that they were having a blast playing them. "

However, the final "Further Listening" section gave "Aja" just 4 Stars!!! I thought they already gave them 5! (check my site http://www.geocities.com/cacaorock/newlps/lpaja.html ). Considering a band like this one, I would reccomend further listening to Steely Dan's best work: 1993's "Citizen".

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 01:22:06 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Muzak Alert !!!

Do it Again being played right now in a HK coffee shop by an outfit that sounds like Fourplay.

Here comes the first solo.....electric piano...pretty limp.

Now a tenor solo....better.

Not much latin feel here..and fading away.

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 00:58:55 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Abu - I'm a huge Parrothead and try to get down to Margaritaville in Key West at least twice a year. Our Jimmy Buffet society cranks up the Buffetmeister's classics like I Want A Smart Woman In A Real Short Skirt on Jones Beach all summer long.

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 00:53:14 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

DACW -- I appreciate your musical observations. They usually pertain to songs I like, or answers questions I haven't asked..like who played what on Scam.

Black Cow -- always underrated, true.

For anyone with the straight-ahead Aja recording...try Universal's 'enhanced sound quality' version. Same price so far as I can see, and it improves on an already good recording. Extra depth everywhere..better separation of instruments.

Also, if you've contemplated getting the MCA gold disc of 'A Decade of Steely Dan'...I can tell you it's worth it because there are songs on there from discs that never had a high end treatment (Rikki, Bad Sneakers, Kid C, and others)

Back to the Cow..

W and D employ a song ending there that's found on other charts. In a Steely Dan keyboard riff book I picked up the guy who put it together calls it the 'release chord.' That is, the tension that's present throughout ends with a final resolving chord that takes the song out in an often energetic way. Same for Kid C and Caves (back to back, no less!) Anyone else point out where this exists in other songs ?

Musical Diversity:

Hong Kong doesn't get many big acts...but Prince will play here next Friday (17th)in a specially made venue down on the harbour with the HK skyline as the backdrop. It's part of the Hong Kong Harbourfest..a post SARS relaunch with government money to fund it (organized by the American Chamber of Commerce). There will be shows for four weekends. Other acts include Santana, Neil Young (backed by Michelle Branch), Gypsie Kings and quite a few others...but NOT the Rolling Stones. For the second time this year they've backed out of playing HK..this time because they couldn't put together dates for Shanghai and Beijing (first time it was because of SARS)

Promoters are pitching this as an 'east meets west.' They will put an asian performer on the same bill as the western acts.

Coincidentally there will be an alternative festival in the same month (headlined by Supergrass, whom I know nothing about). Anyone who knows HK will see the feast/famine phenomena right away. This was the city that advised promoters people should wear gloves in order to keep the noise down if they wanted to put Elton John into HK stadium. It's as though HK officials have never been in a dim sum restaurant here (instant deafness)

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 00:40:51 ET
Posted by: Theron,

Thanks DACW for posting the players on RS. I was wondering about that for a long time - can see clearly now.


I notice that on the first two tours ('93-94) - as heard on AIA we get really "jazzed up" versions of "Sign in Stranger" and "Green Earins" both seeming to have slightly diffrent musical settings in some places (and of course vibes:-) Behrnhardt MASTERFUL on piano. It seems the trend has been against making these changes (impovisions excluded)on recent tours (correct me if I'm wrong) Home at last being an exception. Why is this? Mabe Peter Q has an answer here.

Date: Sat, October 11, 2003, 00:10:54 ET
Posted by: Theron,

Tell me about. When I told my pastor (who is of the Journey / Boston genre) the other day that I had seen Steely Dan three times within a month he looked at me and said "you know HE was making music before you were born :-)

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 22:59:31 ET
Posted by: Abu2, Set it Off

Addendum to the OnGoing discussion of Musical Diversity: A few weeks ago, a Co-worker and I were discussing music. He's a huge Parrothead, and had in fact just seen jimmy Buffet play live. He knows I'm a DanFan ,and in the course of oursomewhat limited,pedestrian discussion,he said: "Yeah,well at least Jimmy Buffet's still alive!" As ignorant as I thought this was,I figured,'well,hey.....I don't necessarily understand or 'get' Buffet in the same sense that he does, but in the greater context of all things, I suppose this is part of what makes the world an interesting place, though SD MUST be more recondite than I thought since there are obviously those out there who question their attachment to this Terra Firma, this Island Earth!

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 22:50:53 ET
Posted by: FOX,

Hey Andy in D.C. I think they mean Downey is going to perform with Brady's band on the show, not Steely Dan band. OK?

You are still the bootleggiest tho and I am sure within minutes you would have had it on your site.

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 20:44:40 ET
Posted by: DACW,

lol Did I mention John Klemmer?


Black Cow just blew me away when I first heard it almost (OMG) 26 years ago to the day... when I brought that black glossy LP jacket and vinyl masterpiece back to my Frosh dorm room...the use of space and sonics impressed me immediately...

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 20:40:49 ET
Posted by: DACW,

PQ: Oh, I'd argue from Katy on, which is recorded much more like a Blue Note Jazz album than Royal Scam. Scam did feature an upgrade on the film noir horn accents, they are now so famous for, from Pretzel and Katy for...Klemmer, Findleys, Klemmer, added to Jim Horn, Plas Johnson etc.. Paul Griffin I think is oftern overlooked as a serious influence on this album:


THE ROYAL SCAM


Kid Charlemagne:

Drums: Bernard “Pretty” Purdie
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitar: Larry Carlton
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Clavinet: Paul Griffin
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald, Venetta Fields, Clydie King, Sherlie Matthews


Caves of Altamira:

Drums: Bernard Purdie
Bass: Walter Becker
Piano: Donald Fagen
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Trumpet: Chuck Findley, Bob Findley
Trombone: Slyde Hyde
Sax: Plas Johnson, Jim Horn
Solo Sax: John Klemmer
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen, Timothy B. Schmit


Don’t Take Me Alive:

Drums: Rick Marotta
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitars: Larry Carlton (solo)
Dean Parks (rhythm)
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen, Timothy B. Schmit


Sign in Stranger:

Drums: Bernard Purdie
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitars: Elliot Randall, Walter Becker, Denny Dias (outtro)
Piano: Don Grolnick or Paul Griffin????
Trumpet: Chuck Findley, Bob Findley
Trombone: Slyde Hyde
Sax: Plas Johnson
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen, Timothy B. Schmit


The Fez:

Drums: Bernard Purdie
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitar: Larry Carlton
Piano: Victor Feldman
Organ: Paul Griffin
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Trumpet: Chuck Findley, Bob Findley
Trombone: Slyde Hyde
Sax: Plas Johnson, Ernie Watts
Percussion: Victor Feldman (maracas)
Backing Vocals: Donald Fagen, Timothy B. Schmit, Michael McDonald


Green Earrings:

Drums: Bernard Purdie
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitars: Elliott Randall - left channel
Larry Carlton - right channel
Denny Dias – 1st section
Elliott Randall – 2nd section
Clavinet: Paul Griffin
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Percussion: Victor Feldman (tambourine, triangle, maracas)
Backup Vocals: Donald Fagen, Tim Schmit


Haitian Divorce:

Drums: Bernard Purdie
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Guitars: Dean Parks (solo talk box)
Walter Becker (talk box voicings)
Larry Carlton (rhythm)
Piano: Donald Fagen
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Synthesizer: Donald Fagen
Sax: Jim Horn, Plas Johnson
Backup Vocals: Venetta Fields, Clydie King, Sherlie Matthews


Everything You Did:

Drums: Rick Marotta
Bass: Walter Becker
Guitars: Larry Carlton (solo), Walter Becker (left channel)
Piano: Donald Fagen
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Organ: Paul Griffin
Backup Vocals: Donald Fagen, Timothy B. Schmit, Michael McDonald


Royal Scam:

Drums: Bernard Purdie
Bass: Walter Becker
Guitar: Larry Carlton
Piano: Donald Fagen
Organ: Paul Griffin
Fender Rhodes: Don Grolnick
Percussion: Victor Feldman (blocks, tambourine)
Dueling muted trumpets: Chuck Findley, Bob Findley
Trombone: Slyde Hyde
Sax: Jim Horn, Plas Johnson
Backup Vocals: Venetta Fields, Clydie King, Sherlie Matthews

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 20:27:56 ET
Posted by: thefez98, Roger Friedman

I'm sure most folks visiting this site know this, but Roger Friedman from FOX news is a HUGE SD fan and reported that he attended at least one of the Roseland shows. He seems to do anything he can in his column to get an SD plug in.

BTW, 'Countdown to Ecstasy' is the feature 'Hall of Fame' album on Rolling Stone this week.month.

http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/cd/review.asp?aid=12564

THEFEZ98 - mopping in Boston - thinking of the Hawaii shows...

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 20:16:58 ET
Posted by: Bob, NYC

We need a full report on tonight's Hawaii afair.

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 19:39:46 ET
Posted by: Andy, DC

Just came across this on Roger Friedman's gossip column:

These days, [Robert] Downey [Jr.] is not only acting but recording music. He's working on an album of songs, he says, that are reminiscent of Steely Dan. In fact, when he promotes "The Singing Detective" on "The Wayne Brady Show" next week, Downey will perform Steely Dan's old hit "Reelin' in the Years" with the band.

(full story at http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,99680,00.html)

So it'll be Donald, Walter, and Robert Downey Jr., coming at us from a trailer in Burbank? Sounds fun.

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 16:48:34 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Well now it's confusing, on Weiskopf's site it says Oct 27, Blue Note, but on the Blue Note site it has John Benitez listed that night.

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 16:31:15 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Peter Q - I'm always up for the Blue Note! Anyone else?

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 16:23:07 ET
Posted by: Geoff, Maui

Gretchen,

Scotty, of course! I don't know where I got Chris from. I will pass on your message.


There's quite a buzz around here, a local Avacado farmer is playng a concert tonight.

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 16:07:05 ET
Posted by: Buy ME, Kansas

Hey come buy my Steely Dan T shirts:


http://www.betterden.com/music/artist/artist145.html



Thanks in advance for your order.


These are legit.

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 16:06:11 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Walt Weiskopf is headlining later this month at the Blue Note, any Danheads want to check out the show and see if we can engage Walt in some conversation?

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 15:03:30 ET
Posted by: Rcray, NYU

How about ELO. They have some interesting compositions with respect to using classical music and merging it with rock/pop and soul.

Jeff Lynne is a self-proclaimed Beatles fanatic and I remember an old interview with him in Billboard where he makes mention of his meticulous studio work and how he was very private with respect to the media.

Sounds alot like Messrs. Becker and Fagen.

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 14:24:22 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, Carnifornia

BC- Always on my Top 10. Narrator actually displays emotion! (Or ironically denies it). Altered chord change on the final "outa here" is brilliant.

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 14:09:13 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, quietly resigned to not being in Hawaii.....

Geoff-Aloha to you and the group especially those two aussies Scotty and Alan. Loved meeting all of you, hopefully we'll Do It Again very soon! Have a great time, we all expect a thorough review. (It's very cold and damp here today....sob). By the way I did recover from that walk to Le Bar Bat in those stilettos.....

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 13:15:03 ET
Posted by: Geoff, Seaside Hotel Maui 808 877 3311

Aloha Gretchen, We wish you were here too! I'm here with Chris, Alan and Jenn from Muswellbrook, Little Wild One, SueDave. A few more folks expected later.

I just walked up to Blaisdale, it's tiny! Looks like a high school. No Turnstiles. Banyan tree right outside the entrance. It looked like they'd moved a lot of stuff in already, I'll have to go back up and nose around...

Geoff

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 13:09:02 ET
Posted by: angel,

Rcray: Yeah, I mentioned it here, back on September 28th. (1:20:45)
My husband reads it for the articles. I read it for, well, the articles of course.... lol

Big Fan: Did you price airfare to Hawaii. Sorry $850 to $1,050 is way too much for another concert and blow out party, but I will be crying tonight and tomorrow!!!!!

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 12:57:58 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase, L.A.

Black Cow just worked great live, what a groove and what an underrated song.

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 12:27:37 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, Califarnold

Gretchen - Never realized a Black Cow is just a chocolatized version of my favorite, the Root Beer Float! Always figured the girl in the song was sipping something "potent" -- so the Vodka would be essential.

Now get outta here ...

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 11:58:15 ET
Posted by: sharkdeville, Dairy Kurl

i thought a black cow was made w/cola and a brown cow w/root beer...?

black vodka sounds good, though.

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 11:46:21 ET
Posted by: Beerberian , UK Dandom

RCray; I was once "got in the doobies" fair brings tears to the eyes !!

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 11:44:29 ET
Posted by: RCray, NYC

No Gretchen, I do look at the pictures, jokes, letters to the editor etc...

The Bill Murray and Quentin Tarantino interviews were hilarious as well.

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 11:18:48 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, wishing I were in HI

RCray, don't tell us you read playboy for the articles on stereos and past presidents.........

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 11:16:12 ET
Posted by: Rcray, NYC

There is a blurb in the new Playboy about Jeff Baxter and his work with Steely Dan...also they mention his interest in the missle defense and work with the government.


They said that his work with the Dan essentially got him in the Doobies.

Anyone in Hawaii?

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 11:15:29 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

How about a Black Cow for a Friday?

Chill a 16 oz glass in the freezer, for 15 minutes or so.
Pour 1.5 tablespoons of a good chocolate syrup in the bottom of glass.
add 4 oz. cold root beer, stirring quickly to mix with syrup.
add 1 large scoop good quality vanilla ice cream.
add another 4 oz. rootbeer, and top with another scoop of vanilla.

(For the daring, a shot of that black vodka may be added).

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 11:15:27 ET
Posted by: Lanai, i am an island

BigFan--so much so. Should be a sweet show.

*sigh* onward and upward...

Lanai (for today)

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 10:15:51 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, work

Sorry I forgot this one:

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=reviewsNews&storyID=3551743

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 10:13:46 ET
Posted by: Boston Rag,

I was at Boston College yesterday afternoon to see Michael Moore.
It was the first stop on his 35 city tour to promote "Dude, Where's My Country!". After his very funny lecture, he signed books for an hour. I was wearing my 'Everything Must Go' tour cap. After he signed my book he looked up and said "Bush Must Go!".

Mark in Boston

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 10:04:51 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, When does the weekend start?

Super good interview in the Maui News - just typing the name of that newspapers brings up visions of tropical isles, grass skirts - certainly more romantic than the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
http://www.mauinews.com/magazine/story/109202003_mag02MauiBeat1009.asp

Also from the 50th state, this time the Honolulu Star Bulletin
http://starbulletin.com/2003/10/10/features/story2.html

Truthfully, how many of you wish you were there?

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 09:33:53 ET
Posted by: Gretchen, on the counter, by my keys

Joey........you are cute. Here's a nuzzle!

Date: Fri, October 10, 2003, 08:38:14 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Crack Whore - sorry I wasn't clear there, I meant to say that SD pianistics tend to be in the Bill Evans/Bobby Timmons mode (Victor Feldman replaced Timmons on piano in two different groups) and almost never in the Horace Silver or McCoy Tyner styles. Michael Omartian was definitely influenced by Tyner, as his career as a Christian artist shows. But there is no room for improvisation of that order in SD tunes, everything is charted except for the solos (even some of them are written out according to Sweet).

In an article in Down Beat in 1976 (it's on downbeat.com) Donald Fagen said John Coltrane "self destucted jazz." That one remark gives a beautiful clue as to their jazzical tastes. It's not surprising that one of the few cover numbers they choose to do is by a pianist wholly out of that gospel-introspective piano school, Ray Bryant. On the other hand, as several people have remarked here, Weiskopf's opening blast on the song EMG bears a resemblance to A Love Supreme.

As to 70s influences, well, from Royal Scam on much - probably most- of the influence/derivation/whatever term you like is not rock at all but wholly contemporary jazz. Song after song on Scam, Aja, and Gaucho is filled with the big fusion players of that day. I was listening to an album called Mellow by Paul Humphrey, the drummer on Black Cow - it sounds like a Steely Dan album. It's from 1974.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 23:40:41 ET
Posted by: Theron Brady,

I was really hoping they would close out the second set with EMG. Unfortunatley it just aint gonna happen. Gotta play mostly "upbeat songs" to keep all the posers happy. In the end, we really could not make it without the posers. They account for 95% of the audience. Us true fans are only about 5% with some overlap. So ya gotta find that balance. But cutting out the VIBES?....going a little far....a little far. The trade off is a full brass section which I sure ain't complaining about but if we could have VIBES and that?

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 23:13:17 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase, L.A.

Mi Droogies! The Rajah's Crystal Ball is getting unusually good reception tonight:

A few musings extracted for the Dandom:
Imagine a Kid C/EMG medley, one into the other after the hanging coda note of KC. Then Weiskopf. Perfect.
Don & Walt suing everyone for a score of years after they stop recording in 2015.
They reform in 2020, tour, record, Grammy and follow-up.
All of us still around.

Now, let's just make it happen pidgeons.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 23:13:17 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase, L.A.

Mi Droogies! The Rajah's Crystal Ball is getting unusually good reception tonight:

A few musings extracted for the Dandom:
Imagine a Kid C/EMG medley, one into the other after the hanging coda note of KC. Then Weiskopf. Perfect.
Don & Walt suing everyone for a score of years after they stop recording in 2015.
They reform in 2020, tour, record, Grammy and follow-up.
All of us still around.

Now, let's just make it happen pidgeons.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 23:13:16 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase, L.A.

Mi Droogies! The Rajah's Crystal Ball is getting unusually good reception tonight:

A few musings extracted for the Dandom:
Imagine a Kid C/EMG medley, one into the other after the hanging coda note of KC. Then Weiskopf. Perfect.
Don & Walt suing everyone for a score of years after they stop recording in 2015.
They reform in 2020, tour, record, Grammy and follow-up.
All of us still around.

Now, let's just make it happen pidgeons.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 22:28:04 ET
Posted by: DACW ,

PQ: Bill Evans, yes and don't forget Thelonius Monk (Fire in the Hole is a great example)...It's easier to hear McCoy Tyner when Omartian stoked the keys...

...the irony regarding Who, Stones, etc...is that Steely Dan's music has VIRTUALLY NOTHING to do with any music made by white people from the British invasion on, with the exception of course of Bob Dylan's lyrics - the rock influences are more 50, the jazz 30s through the 60s...now, there has always been some Latin, Stax, blues, R&B, Gamble & Huff + Thom Bell, and funk influences post Beatles. EMG makes this statement harder than any other album...

...when I first heard Do It Again (I can't believe that's over 30 years ago!) I thought they were an African-American group...of course that's easy compared to The Iggles, Donny Osmond, Billy Don't Be a Hero and whatever passed for pop 30 years ago

jeez...I'm listening to Williams/Holdsworth "Fred" now from Believe It/Collection - unf*ckingbelievable...that's something very positive from these discussion - makes me dust off thos CDs and LPs lurking in the cabinets...

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 22:15:57 ET
Posted by: Pam, North Country

Actually, the original guitar compliment came from Danfantastic; didn't mean to leave you out, brudda.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 22:06:08 ET
Posted by: Pam, Sheraton Gibson

Rajah:

Roger's vocal on Young Man Blues is the perfect accompaniment to Pete's guitar, too. Just the best live song ever ever ever. Pete Townshend was my hero, before I got Danned.

"Volume and power, power and volume". Pete Townshend

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 21:36:44 ET
Posted by: Theron Brady,

Hey Javier:

The sixth tract on the Asia album will answer your question about the "lady" on the cover of the Asia album. The third tract on the Asia album will anwer your question about the cover to Royal Sacam. The buildins on that cover were vacated right before the picture was shot. We never know if they cruble or not but the guy who is sleeping wakes up and finds out that the beasts were defeated by (1) ignoring the people who used to be in the building and (2) relaxing while the beasts destroy themselves.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 21:30:13 ET
Posted by: Glen Bourgeois, An Atlantic Canadian fan of all of 27

Hey there,

I have _one_ question that you might be able to answer (more possibly to follow):

What were the original recording dates for "The Second Arrangement"?

The reason why I ask is because the studio outtake that finally came out (via bootleg) of tSA (the second attempt, of course) sounds remarkably close (or vice versa) to (get this) country-pop artist T.G. Sheppard's "Only One You"! Same tempo, basic key, and feel, down to the "boom-BAP! boom-BAP!" rhythm instrument (in the Dan's case, an electric piano, in T.G.'s case, an acoustic guitar (surprise, surprise)). T.G.'s song would have come out sometime in 1979.

I've sent an e-mail to the T.G. Sheppard fan club to find out more about this. Considering T.G. was on Warner Bros. at the time while Steely Dan were attempting to have their album released on the same label, I wouldn't be surprised if people (engineers, session musicians, perhaps the artists themselves) who had worked on one would have heard the other. (I am not talking plagiarism, I'm talking influence.)

If this was completely coincidence, this would probably be the first time a jazz-pop group would record a song most similar to a country-pop artist, and vice versa.

Thanks,
Glen

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 21:12:34 ET
Posted by: Javier Moreno, La Habana, Cuba, December 1958.

I always miss catfights, damn.

I have a good story to tell this time. Three years ago, at UCLA, I met a guy named Corky Pestino, he was kinda sixty-something and he knew a lot about Steely Dan. He was amazed how much a guy from South America could know about the band, so we had long conversations not only about SD's records, but other artists like the Doobies, Eagles and similar stuff.

Corky told me, I don't know if this is true, that his former girlfriend is the asian lady shown in the cover of Aja. He even told me that she left him for a short-fused affair with Dan's Man Don. Nice story from a man that knew that Chevy Chase was playing drums with Walt and Don. Urban Legend? Me Don't Know. Corky also told me good stories about the Steely Dan albums and how each one had a concept behind. Royal Scam was an album about the Arab-Israeli conflict. It was January 2001 when he told me about the mongoose and the cobra fighting over the two twin towers on the cover (What a prophetic cover, damn!). I thought Aja was about the Vietnam War, of course. I put that on my website... http://www.geocities.com/cacaorock/newlps/lpaja.html

Take care, guys.

Javier.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 21:00:53 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, Land of Queen Maria

More live:

Tower of Power released a live album with one entire side of the song "Knock Yourself Out." Has a several minute solo with Lenny Pickett (now SNL band leader) essentially playing one note -- and it's great!

What IS hip?

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 20:56:33 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, Schwarzifornia

Live albums ...

Has anyone mentioned Woodstock? Am I dating myself? Personal fave: Sly & Family Stone's "singalong" to "Music Lover" But many other great performances -- including CSN's Wooden Ships!

Another: EWF's "Gratitude" (part studio, part live). Sun Goddess, Reasons, Shining Star, Yearnin Learnin

Yow!

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 20:53:03 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Someone just turned me on to the album Bad Sneakers & A Pina Colada, by Hardcore Superstar. Interesting!

Does anyone know where Oleander is these days?

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 19:14:07 ET
Posted by: Danfantastic, on the water (I wish)!

Yes, 'Wooden Ships' live is sublime---very free & and easy.
Am also crazed for--from the same live set '3/5's of a mile
in 10 seconds'--"Do away with people blowin' my mind".

Re our favorite band: just realized that it's been exactly
two months since I saw them in Columbus. Why have I not
been savvy enough to realize I need to see them again?

11th hour plans to go to Hawaii? Hey, a guy can dream.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 18:37:02 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase, L.A.

The Who's live version of "Young Man Blues" on Leeds is classic. The version Pete does on their first last concert ever in Toronto in 1982 is moving and nostalgic in the best sense of that word.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 16:59:29 ET
Posted by: Joey,

" Danfantastic, I love Live at Leeds! Best live album, ever, not counting the one we will hopefull see from SD next year. Jefferson's live version of "Wooden Ships" is also sublime. "

Gretchen ........................I like the way you think -- very Snarkily !

Here is hoping for some live " Dan " next year or perhaps this Holiday Season .

Spanky !

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 15:41:37 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Danfantastic, I love Live at Leeds! Best live album, ever, not counting the one we will hopefull see from SD next year. Jefferson's live version of "Wooden Ships" is also sublime.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 14:50:24 ET
Posted by: Danfantastic, dreaming of those Babylon Sisters

One great live album I haven't seen mentioned yet (as of 9/19):
"Bless it's pointed little head" by Jefferson Airplane.

Gretchen--loved your listing of "Shakin' all over"!
Will counter with "Young man blues" from the same
album---Pete's opening guitar riff scorches the ears,
in an oh so pleasnt way.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 13:48:21 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Heads up about Green Room Chat and some technical issues.

* If you leave the Green Room without pressing the logout button, it's not uncommon that your name will still appear in the list of users...and stay there for a day or more, preventing you from logging back in under the same name. If this happens, please contact me via email. It's not someone else logged in as you giving the silent treatment.

* If you like to use a particular screen name and want no one else to use it, you should use a password with your screen name when logging in. Please let me know if you need assistance by EMAILING ME. Thank you.

jim

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 13:18:21 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase, L.A.

Wow, I guess it IS kinda scary to dig those creeps in the...Blue Book.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 12:31:23 ET
Posted by: Dave,

I think people forget how much work and money behind the scenes that Hoops puts into this. Like someone said, Hoops pays the rent and sets the table so we can have a nice place to meet. Let's behave like guests. Thank you, Hoops. And it was an honor to meet you at Philly this summer.

Dave

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 12:18:39 ET
Posted by: hoops,

Rajah:
Technically, everything and every word you say on the internet is documented. However, it is so comprehensive that distilling useful information is moot unless you are someone who has the right training and resources to do so. I have to pay some one to do it because I can't myself so it rarely happens. The SIS GB is much, much more "peek a boo" as you say. The only time I will pay is if I believe someone is going stalking me or killing the book. It's annoying, it took an hour out of morning (meaning I have to stay late and take a late train home.) And I have to pay $5 to $15 a pop. But if someone's being attacked, or I think they are going to, I wanna know who it is. Maybe you weren't around when this place started but I was being stalked bascially.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 12:11:43 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Hoops, thank you. If someone is in a really confrontational mood, they should either stay out or have the nerve to use their usual name.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 12:07:57 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase, L.A.

Hoops - I realize I'm gullible, but I had no idea this kind of peek-a-boo stuff goes on in here, I mean, isn't this anonymous enough as it is?

Peter Q provides an invaluable musical resource on these pages even if he is an arrogant SOB at times which springs, of course, from an exhaustively comprehensive knowledge of the material (the Rajah, alas, has this same heavy burden) coupled with the passion for the good music. Peter, we nuzzle you. Boom-chicky-boom.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 12:03:51 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete (my real name), California

Hoops-

Don't want to be a pest, but really would like to hear your take on Bad Sneakers (mentioned last week) if you have a moment or two.

BTW, your "here's the FBI contact info" posts are really funny. I mean, I agree with your response and can't believe people are so naive (or whatever). But every time someone posts one of those download request notes it's like waiting for the punchline of a joke you already know -- but laugh at every time. Thanks!

-Pete (that's my name, not Pivotal)

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 11:43:06 ET
Posted by: hoops,

To begin with, Raven (or is it Eric?), even the casual Danfan is drawn to them because of SD's outside musical and literary influences. When you become a fan of Steely Dan, you become a fan of hundreds of blues and Jazz greats. Or vice versa. For someone new, you sure are confrontational.

You know, over the past 10 or 11 years I have been doing this I have found that when someone "new" comes on and starts being a bit too confrontational for someone new to the neighborhood, I often find they are really not "new." We had one of these over the summer. Raven's posts felt like that as well.

Thinking this person might be back , I paid my ISP to run a check. Turns out, Raven isn't new and probably isn't even a woman but probably a guy named Eric who has posted before for the past couple of months.

Look., it's great that we argue our points, but let's be respectful about it and not degenerate into becoming one of the other chat boards that this place was created to improve upon or Dan Ackroyd and Jane Curtain on SNL Weekend Update.

Over the summer, when something like this last happened, a few urged that I should make this a place you log into. I understand what you are saying and have even tried such a forum and have seen others. The problem is this: aside from keeping out the wackos (actually only some of them), it almost always drives posting down about 80%. But most of all, it also means that those certain "good" anons who have inside info that they can't officially post under their name also will not post. So there is a very good case and circumstance for posting as anon.

But remember, if you are posting as anon simply to make it look like more people side with you or so that you can post irresponsibily, all you are doing is hurting the opportunity for bleeding edge SD news to make it to us. In short, doing that is very selfish.

jim

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 11:28:28 ET
Posted by: Raven,

The other day, a friend of mine played the live version of"Dirty Work" that featured Cynthia Calhoun (I believe) on lead vocals. Simply an awesome performance!!

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 11:15:44 ET
Posted by: Pivotal Pete, California

PeterQ- Will try to check out some of your suggestions. Not sure it's "important" (someone, not me, might call that snobby) but if it's interesting, enlightening or fun it would be worth the time. I've enjoyed Vonnegut (lots) and Pynchon (some) and think I oughta get back to that stuff.

The idea of comparing SD to mega groups, though, is no less relevant than comparing them to your jazz faves. For one, how likely is Dave McKenna to show up in the R&R Hall of Fame? I did not say it's the only comparison, but for purposes of seeing what makes SD "special" I'd just say it's not unreasonable. Nor is comparing Rikki to Really Love to See you Tonight, though that seems a little more obscure ...
For lyrical artistry, I've wondered how much D&W may have been influenced by Gilbert (& Sullivan). (Not O'Sullivan) Maybe you've looked into that.

Aunt Faye - Randy Newman is supremely snarky. Also, like SD, able to wrap it in a "suitable for prime time" package.

Berbeerian - You said it perfectly!

Gretchen - Mood altering prescription: Get out some Don photos and gaze at them while taking long, deep breaths. Doesn't that feel better?

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 10:29:59 ET
Posted by: Rajah of Erase, L.A.

Gretchy - I read your latest post and, for a second, I thought it was ME.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 10:10:54 ET
Posted by: Big Fan, at work - things are going from bad to worse

Just haven't been able to keep up with all of the concerts reports. And here we come to the end of tour. SueDave I am so envious that you are in Hawaii.

Thought people should know that food goes on sale two hours before the show in Maui:
http://www.mauinews.com/community/story/103202003_com01Steely1002.asp


Don't know if this review was posted: From what I've been able to read this was the show to be at.
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2003/October/07/style/stories/03style.htm

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 09:58:58 ET
Posted by: Gretchen,

Raven, OK, we know you're the "new girl on the block." And given the many posts here referring to other artists I hardly think you can believe that any of us listen exclusively to Steely Dan. So just stop with it, OK? And Still Sparkin', when you say "why trash anything" you are suggesting we give up our freedom of speech and expression. The idea of everyone being OK with all music is bull****. In a time when our freedoms are being increasingly taken away, (our voting rights, for example) let's keep music open for discussion and debate. Don't anyone f*** with me today. I'm in a bad mood.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 08:38:08 ET
Posted by: Raven,

Still Sparkin'....great post.

I was really surprised by comments by some people yesterday. Granted, I'm the new girl on the block so perhaps I mistakenly touched a nerve with some folks by insinuating that many people may actually like other artsts in addition to Steely Dan.

There are other musicians like Steely Dan who have been around for years and are also offering great material with their new releases: Springsteen and Bowie immediately come to mind. Also Gary Numan is a fella who is really doing some creative and aggressive stuff these days.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 08:17:44 ET
Posted by: Aunt Faye,

I don't think he's been mentioned, but since NPR did a feature on him this week -
don'tcha think Randy Newman is another artist who could be described as snarky? He plays those old time rags, and he sings those lyrics...most people don't even realize he's mocking what he's usually singing about...

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 06:42:30 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Peter Q....whether you're directing it at me or not...I'll pursue those cds of the artists you mentioned. If lunch with Gina lasts forever...there'd certainly be enough jazz to go with it, no ?

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 06:26:02 ET
Posted by: Beerberian, uptNorth

When the mood takes me ... I play Eagles / Mac / Who / Allison Moorer /Camille Te Nahu / Judie Tzuke / The Thorns / Gordon Giltrap / Van the Man ... and many more BUT I always return to 'Dan - why is that ? Could it be that their work spans the whole musical nutrient continuum - A completely balanced musical repast peut etre is provided in a Steely Live smorgasbord (sp?)

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 06:01:10 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

And Pivotal, Dave McKenna - Solo Piano Live At Maybeck Recital Hall is absolutely critical to understand the way folks like B&F approach Ellington. It will also completely transform your life after two or three listenings.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 05:51:24 ET
Posted by: Peter Q, Brooklyn

Theron - no way! Many absolutely first class jazz sax players like Greg Osby and Bill Evans use rappers in their music all the time, not to mention bop pianists like Ramsey Lewis. This sort of connectedness to what is going on in the street is sorely, sadly lacking in alot of "smooth jazz" type muisc. Not all rap is gangsta garbage.

Pivotal - it's very easy to say "Let's categorize my favorite group in this category over here, which is filled with aging, musically boring, nonproductive groups, and then say my group is the best." Duh. Instead of categorizing Steely Dan with Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow and 38 Special, let's categorize them with groups and artists that are more like they are. In my view it is much more important to understand the main strains of jazz piano - the school that follows the pianist Bill Evans, the school that follows Horace Silver, the school that follows McCoy Tyner - to see where Steely Dan is coming from. It's important to know the differences between Cornelius Bumpus and Walt Weiskopf, their influences and backgrounds, etc. It's important to know why the lyrics seem to be indebted to, if not outright emulating, writers like Thomas Pynchon and Leonard Michaels. It's important to get Cindy Mizelle's solo albums and try to see how she got chosen to be in the group.


If you categorize a superior product with obviously inferior ones for the purposes of making yourself feel good, that's just an exercise in self congratulation and self indulgence. The discs to compare Aja to are not Hotel Califonia or Who Are You, it's just not that kind of music.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 03:03:41 ET
Posted by: Still Sparkin', China

Why curtail creative expression with harsh judgements

The simple answer for anything you don't like musically is to choose not to listen.

If you want me to listen to what YOU like (presumably to educate me and help me appreciate fine music and understand where influences come from) then why not guide me there.

Sadly, jazz fans rank among the biggest music snobs.

In recent years, I've started to become a more dedicated jazz listener. And if I ever cop a jazz snob attitude....just remind me of this little list:

GUILTY PLEASURES:

That's How Much I Feel -- Ambrosia

How Deep is Your Love -- Bee Gees

Shannon -- Henry Gross

It's a Miracle -- Barry Manilow

Don't it Make My Brown Eyes Blue -- Crystal Gayle


And actually, its a much longer list. But here's the thing...I've got a swack of progressive rock (with a heavy Yes committment) fusion, and heavier classics...plus lots of Miles.

Country music I never much liked but after working at a country radio station I was humming Randy Travis tunes (to which I'm sure the country purists would say 'he's no Hank Jr.')

Why trash anything ?

Ignorance is no answer (get the tunes, learn the roots) and lording it over other people is equally lame (be a teacher, not an elitist)

And if you can't reel in your superiority....let's see the charts for what you've written...and I'll play it myself and tell you how it stacks up.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 01:05:50 ET
Posted by: Javier Moreno, The place that'll tumble into the sea now that Arnie is ruling

Oh, yes, I love this kind of lists. Thanks, TT. I can tell that year was really good. My God, just look at that list:

21 years ago this week, "I.G.Y." made it's debut.

TOP 10 SINGLES FROM THE WEEK OF OCTOBER 11, 1982
1. Jack & Diane - John Mellencamp - actually, it was John Cougar.

2. Abracadabra - Steve Miller Band - I love SMB!!! Steve Miller was my idol in 1992, a little before I discovered the Dan. I consider Steve as one of my principal influences.

3. Hard To Say I'm Sorry / Getaway - Chicago : Well, that was from Chicago 16, I think... Chicago II, III, IV, V, VI and VII are excellent records, my friends. Do you know that between 1969 and 1971 chicago released actually 10 albums? No? oh, yes! Chicago Transit Authority (2), Chicago II & III (2 + 2), Chicago at Carnegie Hall (4). Add the numbers! The Dan just released 7 albums in 8 years! Shame on them!

4. Eye In The Sky - Alan Parsons Project: He is my favorite producer, and in 1990 I wanted to go to the Engineering school just because I wanted to be like him. Greatest producers in the world: Quincy, Gary, Alan... George Martin.

5. Who Can It Be Now? - Men At Work - oh, this is from Business As Usual. Cargo was better.

6. Eye Of The Tiger - Survivor - From Rocky III, It's a bad song, let's face it. But makes me want to jog.

7. I Keep Forgettin' (Every Time Your Near) - Michael McDonald //* Yes, Michael McDonald actually copied this song from somebody... Copyright Infringement. The dan never did it!!! isn't it, mr. Jarret?

8. Somebody's Baby - Jackson Browne ... Sorry, In Peru we never listened to this guy.

9. You Can Do Magic - America: Actually, the most successful single of this band in Peru in 1982.

10. I Ran (So Far Away) - A Flock Of Seagulls: [faking a middle aged house wife] Oh, I love this one!!! The early eighties... I remember a guy wearing an AFOS t-shirts. I thought that was the coolest name for a band, after... Pantera.

HIGHEST DEBUT: #56 / I.G.Y. (What A Beautiful World) - Donald Fagen

The Nightfly will always rule the 1982's time zone.

Date: Thurs, October 09, 2003, 01:04:25 ET
Posted by: Javier Moreno, The place that'll tumble into the sea now that Arnie is ruling